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Wednesday, April 18, 2012

The exits close

A lot of people failed to understand the point of my controversial column "Against a Fence", having been distracted by the deportation discussion. Even fewer understood my reasoning behind it; many critics found it hard to wrap their minds around an anti-immigration, anti-border wall perspective. But it has always been a tautological truth that a wall designed to keep people out is just as useful for keeping people in. The proposed law to strip passports in order to better hold Americans hostage to the IRS would appear to be an indication that the time in which one easily leave the United States is rapidly coming to an end.
The Republican House of Representatives may soon follow the Democratic Senate and give the IRS the power to confiscate your passport on mere suspicion of owing taxes. There's no place like home, comrade.

'America, Love It Or Leave It" might be an obsolete slogan if the "bipartisan transportation bill" that just passed the Senate is approved by the House and becomes law. Contained within the suspiciously titled "Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century Act," or "MAP 21," is a provision that gives the Internal Revenue Service the power to keep U.S. citizens from leaving the country if it finds that they owe $50,000 or more in unpaid taxes — no court ruling necessary.

It is hard to imagine any law more reminiscent of the Soviet Union that America toppled, or its Eastern Bloc slave satellites.
In a free and well-governed society, exile is a punishment. In an unfree and misgoverned one, exile is impermissible. There is no stronger indication that America is no longer free than the fact that its leadership is seriously contemplating the idea of attempting to imprison its citizens within its borders.

And of course, one tends to doubt that Warren Buffett will lose his passport despite Berkshire Hathaway owing massive back taxes, or that any of the 98,000 federal employees who owe a combined $1 billion in back taxes will be deprived of their ability to travel outside the country. And while the writer is correct to say that "if House Republicans pass this assault on our Constitution, their credibility will be in tatters", this presumes that the House Republicans still possess any credibility after permitting the continued growth of big government by raising the debt ceiling last year.

For all that the Congressional actions are egregiously unconstitutional and directly opposed to the foundational principles of America, one shouldn't be surprised by any of this. This behavior is completely typical of financially desperate states that can no longer afford the costs of empire. The collapse of the Soviet Union was only the most recent example; there are many to be found throughout history. "Valentinian III, who remarked in 444 AD that new taxes on landowners and merchants would be catastrophic, still imposed an additional 4% sales tax... and further decreed that all transactions be conducted in the presence of a tax collector." But however harsh the crackdown, however totalitarian the government, strict tax enforcement never works because its objectives are inevitably based upon a static revenue model that fails to account for Man's unwillingness to work and to obey the law when the state claims an excessive share on the fruits of his labor.

Enjoy the decline... preferably from a distance.

Labels: ,

105 Comments:

Anonymous Oregon Mouse April 18, 2012 11:47 AM  

From what I understand, our government already bars citizens from reentering the country if they haven't filed income taxes. My brother and his wife have been trying to get all the paperwork filed to return to the states from Japan. The US consulate wouldn't give him permission to return if he owed taxes. I could be a little confused on the particulars but the end result is a citizen living abroad can't just decide to return home. Am I wrong on this?

Anonymous VD April 18, 2012 11:55 AM  

My brother and his wife have been trying to get all the paperwork filed to return to the states from Japan. The US consulate wouldn't give him permission to return if he owed taxes.

There is something else involved there. No American has any need to go to the US consulate in order to travel to the USA or anywhere else, for that matter. Is his wife a non-citizen who needs a visa to enter the country?

Anonymous dh April 18, 2012 11:59 AM  

VD:
98,000 federal employees who owe a combined $1 billion in back taxes
This is stupid - simple average is just over 11,000. Few if any would be 5x that level.

And of course, one tends to doubt that Warren Buffett will lose his passport despite Berkshire Hathaway owing
Berkshire Hathaway - unless I miss something - doesn't own back taxes. Companies that they hold investments in, or are controllers of, owe disputed back taxes. Regardless, this is a publicly traded company. Buffet is chairmen of the board an an investor. Are you inventing a new standard to follow?

Anonymous Weak April 18, 2012 12:06 PM  

But where to go? Europe appears to be in a race to see who can collapse the fastest. The rest of the world can't collapse because you can't collapse from nothing. Australia?

Anonymous Mr. Nightstick April 18, 2012 12:06 PM  

Unless you are willing to move to Pakistan, I'm sure the State department has a file on you Vox. Just ask any friends you have that work there if they've got anything on you. If you don't have any friends there, let me know and I'll ask mine.

And if they know about you they can get to you. But you already knew that.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan April 18, 2012 12:13 PM  

Interesting that politicians think they can squeeze more money from the elites by clamping down on travel.

For each elite that caves & forks over a bit of loot, another ten will fight tooth and nail to sneak around the rules, depriving the treasury of 10X that amount.

Government planners are city park checkers players. Rich people & their lawyers are teams of high level chess players.

End result...debt climbs higher, freedom is lost, government gets harsher, living standard for most folks goes down further...

Beta white males, women and minorities feel better about themselves.

Anonymous Daniel April 18, 2012 12:13 PM  

Mr. Nightstick
And if they know about you they can get to you. But you already knew that.

Heh. And you thought Vox played ASL for fun. Isn't obvious that it has been practice?

Honestly, I wouldn't bet on Hilary's goons vs. honest hired local Italian persuasion in any case.

Anonymous Gen. Kong April 18, 2012 12:14 PM  

Hardly a surprise. Just one more proof (as if any is really needed) that the country once known as the United States is an utterly lawless Banksta Banana Republic. Betcha Corzine all the dual-citizens in high places won't have their passports taken. Theirs is invariably a 'special case.' Note that those freedumb-loving Tea-Party Repukes will likely sign onto this under the brilliant leadership of Weepin' Johnny and Dual-Citizen Cantor, just as they sign onto every other totalitarian proposal (NDAA, etc.). Despite overt lawlessness with 'Fast and Furious', Eric "My People" Holder remains entrenched and the BATFE continues to be funded. Just keep on repeating: It's the most important erection EVAAAHHH!

Blogger Eric Mueller April 18, 2012 12:19 PM  

Republicans still have plenty of credibility among those who think "Well, sure, they're screwing us, but at least they're not Democrats! Democrats would be screwing us worse. If we have to be screwed, it might as well be by the noble, can-do-no-wrong Republicans".

Anonymous Gen. Kong April 18, 2012 12:25 PM  

CR, if you think they're going after the elite with this totalitarian crap, you need a reality check. The travel abilities of various Dual-Citizens and Citizens of the World will not be touched, nor will their abilities to avoid paying anything other than superficial taxes be affected. The elites own the government from top to bottom. Indeed, its sole purpose is to serve them - by using the armed-force of "law" to loot any wealth they cast their greedy eyes upon. In case you weren't paying attention, the recent multi-state "settlement" over Robo-signing and various other forms of fraud and lawlessness means the slave power can do any damn thing it likes without having to face any sort of consequences. There is a reason things move in a single direction only.

Anonymous Stilicho April 18, 2012 12:29 PM  

Don't even THINK about doing something TPTB don't like. DHS has a plan for that (FAST): http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-precrime-america

Anonymous JCclimber April 18, 2012 12:31 PM  

Of topic, but interesting note on "dark matter", and the fact that they can't find it anywhere around our sun.

I"ve decided to include the whole link, not out of laziness, but so that those who don't want to bother clicking can still see what the article is called....

http://phys.org/news/2012-04-dark-theories-mysterious-lack-sun.html

Blogger Vox April 18, 2012 12:42 PM  

I'm sure the State department has a file on you Vox.

I'm sure they have a file on everyone. That's what bureaucracies do. But they're not concerned about those of us who are simply kicking back and enjoying the decline. I didn't cause it, and if they can pull a rabbit out of a hat and somehow fix it, contra my expectations, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong and congratulate them.

Anonymous Mr. Nightstick April 18, 2012 12:47 PM  

But they're not concerned about those of us who are simply kicking back and enjoying the decline.

That is until tax collection becomes an entrepreneurial activity once again.

Anonymous Sheila April 18, 2012 12:51 PM  

I noticed this story over a week ago (forwarded it to my son) and was surprised no one else picked up on it. I also saved this from some months ago: http://www.thestreet.com/story/10423687/1/youll-pay-if-you-give-up-us-citizenship.html. This has been going on piecemeal for some time now. Anyone who hasn't noticed our resemblance to South Africa is too dumb to be worth saving.

Anonymous III April 18, 2012 1:08 PM  

Meanwhile, the great Suthren Texans, the last bastion of freedom, are now going have their property rifled through and be asked their business by TSA/VIPR/Cop goons on Metro Buses.

According to Phillip Levine of the Houston Free Thinkers blog, shortly after Lee gave her press conference the operation went straight into effect, with DHS and Metro Police officers questioning passengers who were exiting buses about their destinations and their reasons for riding the bus.

“When I arrived at Wheeler I got off the stage and instantly noticed the massive police presence. The police presence consisted of DHS, metro police, HPD, TSA, and Harris county police officers. They were going on to buses searching and stopping people for questions. Apparently Sheila Jackson Lee was there pushing for more security like what I was viewing. I asked the TSA agent if there was gonna be a bigger presence of metro or TSA. He said both,” Levine said in an email.


And how many Texans (or AmeriKans) are going to tell them to Frick off?

Anonymous FP April 18, 2012 1:14 PM  

The TSA has a new plan now to have agents on busses and asking people questions as they get on/off of busses. They just unveiled it in Houston:

TSA lookin out for you

They just arrested a guy in Portland for disrobing at the airport checkpoint and refusing to put his clothes back on.

Anonymous The Gray Man April 18, 2012 1:16 PM  

Yeah, I'm sure it's about keeping people in. Whatever.

This was an idea put forward by Democrats (who are anti-wall) and Republicans always bow to their wishes in the end, anyway.

Why is anyone surprised? What does one have to do with the other? I think you're forcing the two issues to be related when they really are not. If they want to keep you in, they'll keep you in, a fence has nothing to do with it.

Anonymous Diffeomorph April 18, 2012 1:18 PM  

I'd love to move to Europe but I'm 28 and fresh out of grad school. I have no money and a lot of debt(but at least my job pays well). I've thought about expatriating in the abstract but over the past year that thought has become very concrete. I'm terrified of what my country is becoming and I want out.

Anybody have suggestions about where to move and how to go about it? Thanks

Anonymous Praetorian April 18, 2012 1:21 PM  

Nice! A CHS quote on VD!

Anonymous Ceinwyn April 18, 2012 1:34 PM  

48 and have been considering the same (expatriating so I don't have to watch my country go to Hell). Too bad that property values weren't up more...I'd sell and live off that until retirement $ kicks in.

Also note that even though I live in a border town full of illegals, I did NOT want a wall. Walls can keep people in, too.

Anonymous Houston April 18, 2012 1:39 PM  

I believe it was in a letter to William F. Buckley that Whittaker Chambers called the IRS America's secret police. I used to think this was a bit of an exaggeration. Not anymore.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza April 18, 2012 1:42 PM  

Sure, like Ron Paul said about fences, perhaps he meant papers and documents. Perhaps, this circles back towards the IRS, HHS and will show us how compliance will look like.

Fine and good. Going back to play on LyX

Anonymous Suomynona April 18, 2012 1:46 PM  

It appears that the logical course of this totalitarian measure will lead to fake passports, IDs, etc which will then lead to even more totalitarian measures, ultimately ending up with everyone getting chipped. And they're very busy developing the civilian force that will keep everyone in line.

Barring a major natural disaster that globally wipes out all technology and evil fuckers bent on controlling the whole world, could there be any other outcome from the convergence of these forces?

Anonymous RINO April 18, 2012 1:54 PM  

It appears that the logical course of this totalitarian measure will lead to fake passports, IDs, etc which will then lead to even more totalitarian measures, ultimately ending up with everyone getting chipped.

How do you know you aren't already chipped?

Anonymous Suomynona April 18, 2012 2:03 PM  

RINO April 18, 2012 1:54 PM -How do you know you aren't already chipped?

Personally, I don't see where they would have had the opportunity to implant a chip in me. How does one go about implanting a chip in someone who has never undergone any medical procedure, never visits doctors, and wasn't born in this country? Unless mosquitoes have been equipped with nanochips on their stingers, no other way things get under my skin.

Anonymous CMC April 18, 2012 2:06 PM  

How will they sell/rationalize it? "In this time of economic crisis, it's more important than ever to prevent those who have unscrupulously amassed ill-gotten fortunes to flee from justice. Now, of course, there are those who would say these measures are overly harsh, and even those who would challenge their constitutionality. We honor those who are ever on guard to preserve our freedoms. That is why we have instituted these public service announcements, and answered all legal challenges, as well as forming a new branch of the Homeland Security Guard, which we have entitled the Homeland Security Citizenship department. They will be charged with determining the bona fides of citizens, on a running basis, throughout all stages of one's life...."

Anonymous No_Limit _Bubba April 18, 2012 2:17 PM  

Ron Paul. The American Cassandra of 20/21st century...

Anonymous Clay April 18, 2012 2:18 PM  

Suomynona April 18, 2012 2:03 PM Unless mosquitoes have been equipped with nanochips on their stingers, no other way things get under my skin.

They put the nanochips in your toilet paper. Of course, you're OK if you use corn cobs.

Anonymous RINO April 18, 2012 2:19 PM  

Unless mosquitoes have been equipped with nanochips on their stingers, no other way things get under my skin.

They've had miniature drones and robotic insects for a while now. Sorry dude, we've all already been chipped.

Anonymous Suomynona April 18, 2012 2:23 PM  

RINO April 18, 2012 2:19 PM - Sorry dude, we've all already been chipped.

An apology is not proof. You haven't explained the process by which I've been implanted with a chip. Do tell.

Anonymous Gen. Kong April 18, 2012 2:25 PM  

Sheila: Anyone who hasn't noticed our resemblance to South Africa is too dumb to be worth saving.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Speaking of Houston, see where a gal who looks as if she could be one of D'Won's daughters decided to off another whitey. Ministry of Truth report (via Auster):"The article does not tell us if McClain was looking for a white baby. It does tell us, however, that Schuchardt was “in the wrong place at the wrong time.” She had just taken her child to a pediatrician, and that’s being “in the wrong place at the wrong time.”

Blogger RobertT April 18, 2012 2:27 PM  

That's all we need, give the IRS more power. They have no real oversight. They can do whatever the want with impunity. All the GAO does is audit their effectiveness. But as someone who represents clients before the IRS, I find it absolutely scary. The last time I felt this way I ran for Congress, which was another of the foolish things I've smoked in my time.

I have several on-going audits that come to me in the middle of the audit for various reasons. More than one of those is headed to court, possibly all of them before we're through, because we exhausted all the other resources at our disposal. In some instances they refused to deal with me or my staff, forcing me to go upstream several notches before I got someone to force them to deal with us ... which they didn't do with much enthusiasm. In several cases headed to court the IRS has not cited a single precedent for rejecting the taxpayer's position. When I tried to complain about one of the IRS personnel, I found that was basically impossible. There is no mechanism for doing that. Or if there is an official mechanism, which I suspect there is, it is a closely guarded secret.

Already we have an IRS that does whatever it wants, forcing you all the way to court, knowing the cost that will entail, and for what reason? Just to feel like they're the toughest guy or gal around? ... to take away your rights? ... to take away your constitutional protections? And then we add to their power with this kind of leverage? I don't think that's a very good idea.

Anonymous Lugo April 18, 2012 2:27 PM  

The IRS can already garnish your wages and take your money and property. So this law only affects people who have $50K in debt AFTER the IRS has already taken everything else. And how do these people even have the money to flee abroad if the IRS has taken their money and property?

In short, who is this law directed at? My guess would be that most people willing and able to leave the country don't owe $50K to the government.

OpenID ZT April 18, 2012 2:27 PM  

Go to some Asian country. Business is booming in the east. The west is dieing the slow death at this point. Yeah they have some issues but frankly they functionally have more freedom.

Same with Europe to an extent.

Anonymous RINO April 18, 2012 2:31 PM  

An apology is not proof. You haven't explained the process by which I've been implanted with a chip. Do tell.

It was implanted like all chips are implanted. You not being consciously aware of it is meaningless to the end result -- we're all chipped.

Anonymous Rottweiler April 18, 2012 2:35 PM  

Lemme guess ... members of Congress will be exempt from this law?

Anonymous Suomynona April 18, 2012 2:37 PM  

Clay April 18, 2012 2:18 PM - They put the nanochips in your toilet paper. Of course, you're OK if you use corn cobs.

Bidets would be safe as well.

Anonymous Suomynona April 18, 2012 2:46 PM  

RINO April 18, 2012 2:31 PM - It was implanted like all chips are implanted. You not being consciously aware of it is meaningless to the end result -- we're all chipped.

Being consciously aware of when someone is bullshitting me is not meaningless.

Anonymous RINO April 18, 2012 2:55 PM  

Being consciously aware of when someone is bullshitting me is not meaningless.

What country were you born in then? And is that country more caring for your needs or that of the globalists? Being born outside of the USA is also irrelevant to the end result.

Anonymous Suomynona April 18, 2012 3:03 PM  

I'm done with you, RINO. Mowing my yard is a much better use of my time than wasting it on your bullshit.

Anonymous RINO April 18, 2012 3:09 PM  

I'm done with you, RINO. Mowing my yard is a much better use of my time than wasting it on your bullshit.

Watch out for the chemtrails while you're mowing, bro.

Anonymous Anonymous April 18, 2012 3:10 PM  

@ Diffeomorph

Going to Europe would be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. If you can snag a wife in Eastern Europe and stay there, it might be worth it if you have figured out a way to generate non-geography specific income, but that is much easier said than done. You'll basically have to create your own business of which most fail.

Anonymous Gen. Kong April 18, 2012 3:21 PM  

RobertT, Your cases are but a few of many thousands. The essential facts are borne out over and over, for years on end. It makes no difference. As I mentioned above, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see. The blind continue to cling to their stinking, maggot-infested security blankies. They continue to think that going to a polling place and voting "R" is going to bring about a change of direction - despite decades of hard evidence to the contrary.

Of course the IRS is above all laws, just like every other agency of the regime and all of the nefarious activities of the slave power and its legion of minions. Folks laugh, but Banksta Banana Republic is a perfectly accurate description. There is no rule of law. It is a completely closed, rigged system which serves a single purpose. MPAI trumps all truth. Mark Hackard summed up the place in three brilliant paragraphs:

Today European culture is in ruins, and our master class has enshrined new ideals to replace the ancient faith. So forget your fathers, for they were unenlightened barbarians unworthy of even your memory, fools who from heathendom came to believe in the promise of divine love and salvation after death. Liberated through reason, we have evolved past such childish fairytales. As free and equal supermen, we attend to the total organization of happiness on earth.

The quest to build the Brave New World is a war without limits; proclaiming freedom to every nation, the forces of Revolution amass power unprecedented and lay claim to our very souls. In addition to the farce of voting, perversion, infanticide, and universal consumerism are sacraments of the new, militant cult, defended at home and promoted abroad through any means necessary. Western troops shredded by IEDs in Afghanistan and elsewhere perish not merely for energy routes, poppy fields or geopolitical position, but for the birth of a global civilization. Their patriotism and valor are employed to advance a society that holds such virtues in contempt. Blessed are those who kill for Chevron, Goldman Sachs and Two and a Half Men; blessed are those who die for democracy.

“Civilization” has become a macabre, pornographic Disneyland writ large, expanding across the planet to envelop disparate peoples and tribes and subordinate them to its model, the only permissible model, of political economy. Our sacred liberty succinctly translates to pleasure and material well-being, the bourgeois values of the oligarchs who dominate the liberal order. Should you reject this proposition, should you insist upon your culture freely forging its own destiny, fighting the predatory banking cartels and social engineers, demographic displacement and moral corruption, you must be an accursed and intolerant retrograde, an enemy of progress, a fascist.

Anonymous RINO April 18, 2012 3:22 PM  

On a serious note I'm dissapointed to hear Vox is anti-physical barrier. I went back and read "Against A Fence" as I hadn't seen it earlier and I agree with the self deportation part. Alabama and Arizona have proven that illegals will disappear right before these laws go into effect, but they don't all go back to Mexico. If that is to be effective wouldn't every state need it, and what are the odds of that?

And as to the other solutions you provide ... how does one enact any of these things? If you take it out of the hands of the government you're giving it to an electorate who hold a majority opinion that illegals with no criminal records should be able to stay. And frankly, nothing suggests we even have the vigilance to do any of those things. And this is all before demonstrating that those solutions will be viable given the political and judicial impediments.

Is a border fence not the best solution given the circumstances?

Anonymous kh123 April 18, 2012 3:23 PM  

"If you don't have any friends there, let me know and I'll ask mine."

Ah, wonderful. Chekists.

"DHS and Metro Police officers questioning passengers who were exiting buses about their destinations and their reasons for riding the bus."

Ah, wunderbar. Brownshirts.

Anonymous III April 18, 2012 3:33 PM  

Is a border fence not the best solution given the circumstances?

Go to YouTube and find out just how well fences on the border keep the heathens out.

Anonymous dh April 18, 2012 3:34 PM  

> Alabama and Arizona have proven that illegals will disappear right before
> these laws go into effect, but they don't all go back to Mexico.

Citation? I doubt the effect you describe. My first hand experience has been that illegals prefer to live in the open, but have no problem living under the radar.

Self-deportation is good the low hanging fruit, and that's about it.

Anonymous III April 18, 2012 3:37 PM  

Speaking of chem-trails RINO, I had never seen a chem-trail in my life until the upper 80's. I have thousands of feet of family video... one can see an occasional con-trail... but never a chem-trail.

Anyhow. Ever hear of "Smart-dust?"

Okay. Enough of that.

Anonymous RINO April 18, 2012 3:42 PM  

Leaving before strict laws come into place? There are numerous articles on that, just a handful:

"Arizona's tough new immigration enforcement law is fueling an exodus of Hispanics from the state seven weeks before it goes into effect, according to officials and residents in the state.
Though no one has precise figures, reports from school officials, businesses and individuals indicate worried Hispanics — both legal and illegal — are leaving the state in anticipation of the law, which will go into effect July 29.

Schools in Hispanic areas report unusual drops in enrollment. The Balsz Elementary School District is 75% Hispanic, and within a month of the law's passage, the parents of 70 students pulled them out of school, said District Superintendent Jeffrey Smith. The district lost seven students over the same one-month period last year, and parents tell Smith the Arizona law is the reason for leaving."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-06-08-immigration_N.htm

"Silva Arias, 49, right, and Claudia Suriano, 28, who are both illegal immigrants, talk about their friendship during a final yard sale in Phoenix before they leave the state because of the new strict Arizona immigration law. Suriano's 4-year-old son is at left."

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2010/06/illegal_immigrants_preparing_t.html

"A handful of students have already been pulled from a couple of Houston County schools and if this law continues as it is one Hispanic advocate says it is going to have a negative impact within most school systems.

Over the past week Houston County School's Superintendent Tim Pitchford says 6 Hispanic students have been withdrawn.

“With 6500 students 6 or 7 students does not seem like a large number but when you're only dealing with about 40 or 50 Hispanic students in the whole system then obviously that is a significant number,” said Pitchford.

According to Rich Lopez, a figure in the Hispanic community that number is sure to rise.

“It's going to get worse before it gets better,” said Lopez.

Alabama’s immigration law has more people coming into Lopez’s office for help.

In fact he's already made close to 200 passports for kids.

‘’I have families here everyday that are, we're notarizing their documents from school they’re obtaining information from the schools. I think that the number of kids leaving the school system is going to be substantial,” said Lopez.

More than having to pick up and leave their friends and their school Lopez says the biggest upset is the fear children are living with everyday."

http://www.wtvy.com/alabamanews/headlines/Immigration_Law_Leaves_Schools_with_Empty_Seats_131106828.html

Anonymous Matt Strictland April 18, 2012 3:43 PM  

Collapsing societies that do tyrannical and stupid things are nothing new. Every single one of them will behave in the same basic way simply because humans have no ability to learn from past mistakes. We are a social species, not a thinking one.

The thing is though, it doesn't matter in terms of collections. The reason the tax base has imploded is simple, wage are down for the middle, working and lower classes more than 50% since 1970.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11480568/1/us-standard-of-living-has-fallen-more-than-50-opinion.html

Until they go up, the government can't get more revenue.

Even a massive campaign to privatize won't help, all it does is transfer revenue from one source to another, it doesn't create more.It might get a little more efficiency and lower cost but that ironically counterproductive, inefficiency is the root of consumption in that a perfectly efficient business hires almost no one and as such there are no buyers.

Only higher middle and lower class wages can fix the economy and there are no plans on the horizon that can create those in the private sector. You'd have to mandate inefficiency basically and thats anathema to economic liberals

The worst part is that a cutting spree would implode the system even further, you could get costs under control by gutting military spending (keeping in mind that 150 billion is salaries) if they didn't Junta and gut Social Security and Medicare but the costs would be pretty dire. the economy would fall apart and The US would move quickly in the China direction and become a high savings/low trust society. The world can't afford another one of those since we already produce more goods than anyone needs or can consume.

There are a couple of oddball solutions that might work , Social Credit for one and Economic Populism for another but those are politically null. I suppose we could also dissolve the system and move to regionalism but given that politicians are social driven by pride as much as anything and those would cost them huge in power and status. a peaceful separation is as easy as getting a lifelong Meth Head to stop using ..

So its little wonder that the political class, keeps keeping on. They have no brains or will to do anything but looks out for their own.

Anonymous Paul Warburg April 18, 2012 3:54 PM  

This is simply more mop-up duty.
They knew in 1913 the game was up via the political whore Bureaucracy and ALL of its manifestations into our lives. And 9.11 was simply the mocking, in-your-face, ritualistic onsides kick, which they recovered, knowing they could and would further run up the score. Using another sporting analogy, this has been quite the full-court-press decade, eh? (having already been down by 71 late in the 4th)

Anonymous patrick kelly April 18, 2012 4:01 PM  

OT: Very interesting post and comments today at Traditional Christianity:
Curing Apostasy With Paganism

Anonymous HardReturn¶ April 18, 2012 4:42 PM  

The TSA-approved driver license/ID card has become the US equivalent of the USSR's internal passport.
Why would a compliant citizen want to leave? This is the best of all possible worlds, comrade.

Anonymous The Gray Man April 18, 2012 4:45 PM  

III, may I ask the origin of your username? If you're who I think you are it's an on-topic discussion. If not, I'll leave it at that.

Blogger JohnG April 18, 2012 4:53 PM  

Maybe a distinction without a difference. State wouldn't have file on Vox unless he was a politician/actor of some note or consequence. Their files would be directed externally. DHS and FBI would be the primary organizations (and IRS - I don't remember if Vox gave up citizenship or not). I guess I could check Wikileaks (but not on this computer!) - but I don't recall any stories about files on citizens in CONUS.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner April 18, 2012 4:57 PM  

Ron Paul spoke to this subject at the debates, oh never mind, he dropped out, is a loon, a raccis, anti-semite, blah, blah effn blah...

Here:


http://www.youtube.com/embed/esp-ruhkZqQ

Anonymous dh April 18, 2012 5:09 PM  

> RINO

News articles document a few hundred cases of self-deportation; I am wondering if there are any actual statistics that are available yet.

If it's 500 self-deportations out of millions of illegal immigrants, that's one thing.

If it's 500,000 out of millions, then we can talk.

Anonymous dh April 18, 2012 5:10 PM  

> If it's 500,000 out of millions, then we can talk.

The reason being, sorry to double post, is that as someone who occasionally does business in Arizona (and once or twice every few years, Alabama), the extra trouble of the law isn't worth it unless we are talking about a huge dent in the problem.

The extra compliance costs not worth it to weed out the easiest 5% or whatever of cases. There might be some benefit in the broken window effect, but probably not.

Anonymous III April 18, 2012 5:17 PM  

III, may I ask the origin of your username? If you're who I think you are it's an on-topic discussion. If not, I'll leave it at that.

During the revolutionary war, it is estimated that only 3 percent of the population actively engaged the British.

Anonymous civilServant April 18, 2012 5:47 PM  

Of topic, but interesting note on "dark matter", and the fact that they can't find it anywhere around our sun.

It must be dark dark matter.

Anonymous feral1404 April 18, 2012 5:50 PM  

Raising my glass to the decline from Honolulu. I anticipate a quick flight/boat eastward when the walls start to fall.

A hut somewhere on some small pacific islet isn't too bad a way to weather the storm. Hell, the kids will get a good tan and become great spear-fishers between homeschooling sessions under the palm tree!

Anonymous Sexbots April 18, 2012 5:53 PM  

They're heee-eeere...

Anonymous III April 18, 2012 5:54 PM  

A hut somewhere on some small pacific islet isn't too bad a way to weather the storm.

Then a massive volcanic eruption or massive earthquake goes off and your little island is wiped out by a tsunami. Don't forget your scuba gear.

Anonymous feral1404 April 18, 2012 6:04 PM  

A hut somewhere on some small pacific islet isn't too bad a way to weather the storm.

"Then a massive volcanic eruption or massive earthquake goes off and your little island is wiped out by a tsunami. Don't forget your scuba gear."

Probably; gotta go somehow, I guess. The folks on Manihi (tiny atoll in the Tuamotus) have kept it going since the 1700's and they seem to do just fine. You are right regarding act of nature tho: in them I observed a humility and lack of hubris vis a vis momma nature that most urban drones seem to have forgotten.

But all in all I'd prefer to be taken out by God's hand than run down by some officious bureacratic puke.

Anonymous tabasco April 18, 2012 6:15 PM  

I am against a wall but do favour putting alligators in the Rio Grand-it would make the rivers' ecology more 'vibrant'.

Anonymous realmatt April 18, 2012 6:25 PM  

People just don't realize how effective a violent outburst is. They don't see that it's fear of violence that forces them to sit by and let people run all over them.

There is nothing more necessary in this universe than a violent act. Commit more violence, everyone.

*door bell* "Irs, m'am."

*door opens*

ICE PICK THROUGH THROAT.

Violence.

Anonymous Noah B. April 18, 2012 6:29 PM  

"In short, who is this law directed at? My guess would be that most people willing and able to leave the country don't owe $50K to the government."

This is an act of desperation. It doesn't have to make sense. Hell, nothing Congress has done in the last 100 years has made much sense. Just be thankful that they're giving you advance warning of what corrupt tyrants they really are.

Anonymous III April 18, 2012 6:54 PM  

But all in all I'd prefer to be taken out by God's hand than run down by some officious bureacratic puke.

Zoning the ocean

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=50880

And there is that UN ocean treaty they've been talking about.

Anonymous Kyle In Japan April 18, 2012 7:28 PM  

Good lord. Glad I got out while I still could.

Anonymous JCclimber April 18, 2012 7:33 PM  

Except like the AMT, the $50k isn't going to be all that much in the not-too-distant future. My tax bill is already a good portion of that annually.

Anonymous The Gray Man April 18, 2012 7:39 PM  

III, I have a feeling you might be from ol heart of Dixie.

Anonymous civilServant April 18, 2012 8:02 PM  

The exits close

Not to mention the on-ramps.

http://www.infowars.com/mandatory-big-brother-black-boxes-in-all-new-cars-from-2015/

Anonymous Godfrey April 18, 2012 8:08 PM  

Don't worry. Romney will save us.

LMAO

Anonymous III April 18, 2012 8:09 PM  

III, I have a feeling you might be from ol heart of Dixie.

I am curious as to why you may believe that.

Anonymous zen0 April 18, 2012 9:10 PM  

I have some experience with expatriots, as many Canadians do.Some have been surprised with their tax burdens.

I for one am unclear why they would not just renounce citizenship. They are so embeded and aging, what is the point?

Anyway, I once went on an American odyssey with an American draft dodger who got a fake Canadian I.D. by cruising cemetaries for dead babies. At that time it could be done.

So we went down south as 2 Canadian guys. Nixon was in office and Ali got his jaw broken by Frazier.
We travelled all over the states using a credit card in the name of the dead canadian baby,, D.... W.......

Yah, baby. We were looking for America. Went almost everywhere. Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Texass, Carolina, Pennsylvania, New york State...yadda,,,yadda. What I did not realize then that I know now is that he was looking for a place to repatriot himself.

He wanted back in in spite of it all.

You can take the American out of America, but you can't take America out of the American.....Vox.

Fuck me. That was a fucking Time.

Anonymous DonReynolds April 18, 2012 9:31 PM  

This comes as no surprise at all. Already, they can lift your passport if you owe back child support. I have heard the figure is as low as $10,000, but I have also been told they will not act until it is $20,000. Either way, it may be difficult to get the passport returned once it has been taken away....even if you catch up on the child support in arrears.

Of course, no one has mentioned this same remedy being applied to defaulted student loans, but it would not be a surprise either. Both student loans and child support are currently being collected by the Internal Revenue Service. Yeah, the IRS is now in the business of collecting defaulted student loans and back child support. They automatically withhold any tax refund and send it to satisfy either claim.....provided there is no tax owed from a previous year.

I am not sure if they will expand on this list in a big way. They already removed student loans and child support from bankruptcy law. That seems to be the first step....any debt that cannot be discharged through bankruptcy soon ends up being collected by the IRS.

Anonymous DonReynolds April 18, 2012 9:35 PM  

Hmmm.....the post was eaten. So I will repost an abbreviated form.

You can also get your passport lifted for owing back child support....also without a hearing. I expect very soon they will do the same with defaulted student loans. Both are currently being collected by the Internal Revenue Service and neither can be discharged (like any other debt) through Federal bankruptcy proceedings.

Anonymous Spectator April 18, 2012 9:57 PM  

But the real question is: How would a fence that is massively ineffective at keeping people out, going to do any better of a job keeping them in? Even if the Border Patrol was geared towards stopping people from leaving (which they aren't) It wouldn't be hard to slip south. Hell even in one area alone I know of a dozen places where one could easily drive or walk down a trail and hop over and bam, they are in Mexico. Canada would be even easier.

Anonymous DonReynolds April 18, 2012 10:00 PM  

RINO...."Is a border fence not the best solution given the circumstances?"

NO. There is no border fence that would keep anyone from tunneling under or climbing over.

Much better would be effective interior enforcement....no one can work here illegally, or rent a house, or get a bank account, or wire money, or get cell phone service, or establish utilities, or get a professional or business license, or travel by air (or other common carrier), or purchase a firearm/ammo, or obtain credit, or vote. By the same token, being in the country illegally should not be a get-out-of-jail free card for immediate deportation. They just slip back over the border in a few hours or days.

Anonymous zen0 April 18, 2012 10:10 PM  

An electronic fence is more easily monitored than a physical fence. I don't even know why I have to point this out.

If all your money is electronic......., and there are no electronic borders, the borders are everywhere...doh!

Anonymous The One April 18, 2012 10:23 PM  

Those who fly private don't have their passport checked. It would cost less than 50k to a one way ticket to most places around the world.

Anonymous The One April 18, 2012 10:30 PM  

The Commonwealth of Dominica and the Federation of St. Kitts & Nevis are the only countries with an official, legally mandated, citizenship-through-investment program. Several other countries, including at least two EU members, will award citizenship and passport upon performance of an outstanding service (including an investment).

http://lewrockwell.com/nestmann/nestmann42.1.html

Anonymous Oregon Mouse April 18, 2012 11:25 PM  

VD
My sister-in-law is Japanese. I do know they had an issue with visas because they hadn't filed income taxes.

Anonymous DonReynolds April 19, 2012 12:14 AM  

zen0..."An electronic fence is more easily monitored than a physical fence. I don't even know why I have to point this out."

I have no idea why you feel moved to argue which fence would be easier to monitor either. Maybe you care. Rick Perry tried the electronic fence along the Texas border just long enough to get re-elected, then it was quickly abandoned.

No amount of fence is going to deal with the central problem, which is lack of interior enforcement. As long as it remains a fact, that an illegal alien is home free if they can get ten miles from the border and operate openly without fear of apprehension, then we will continue to fail to secure the border.

The reason I do not go to some of the more interesting places in this world and live as an illegal alien is simply because it is difficult to operate and live in those particular countries BECAUSE they have effective interior enforcement. I know I cannot work illegally and yes, the police will take a keen interest in my activities.

Anonymous p-dawg April 19, 2012 1:08 AM  

May I recommend expatriating within the US? What I mean is, change your status from "citizen" to "denizen" but don't change your physical location. Denizen is a legal status which can be obtained by those who are not (or are no longer) American citizens and who have citizenship in another nation (such as the Kingdom of Israel, which is different from the country of Israel). You will need to rescind your SS#, driver's license, business license, or any other contract you have with the federal, state, or local government as well as your US citizenship before applying for the legal status change. However, you will get a lot of benefits, including the ability to plead non-assumpsit in Admiralty courts.

Anonymous Noah B. April 19, 2012 1:31 AM  

"However, you will get a lot of benefits, including the ability to plead non-assumpsit in Admiralty courts."

'Cause that's a time tested and effective legal strategy.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 19, 2012 1:40 AM  

Now, why do I see future visions of US politicians frantic to get out of the country to some Carribean or Mediterranean exile a la Papa Doc or Mobutu?

Must be the beans I ate acting up. The US isn't a third-world train wreck of a polity...

Anonymous Outlaw X April 19, 2012 2:22 AM  

Clamer for your subjugation, keep pretending American exceptional-ism. We are better, we are true and pure. Vox has been warning you for years as have I. He came first and the logical conclusion comes. Not all of us have the ability to view from afar, but we join the battle or we die.

Decide which side you are on right now or suffer the history that has come before you!

Anonymous Roundtine April 19, 2012 2:25 AM  

Is this policy partially a result of high levels of immigration? Come to America, skip out on taxes for a few years, go back home with a pile of money. It would certainly be an easier sell to some folks if those bearing the brunt of the crackdown are furriners. Of course, as with all bureaucracies, once in place, good luck everyone! Next the IRS will pass a new policy: if you do not file taxes for 2 or more years, the IRS will "assume" you owe $50,000 in back taxes, thus triggering passport seizure/denial etc., even if you don't even owe any back taxes.

Anonymous Outlaw X April 19, 2012 2:36 AM  

Nero the derange bastard or Caligula that married his horse these are the people who have always have been in charge until God destroys them. Think of of Lott who actually was dumb enough to petition God not to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Yet when he got back what did they want while the angels were there? He offered his own wife but they wanted the children.

So, it has always been and always will be from then until the bankers of today; they are madmen ruling. Will Obama marry his horse or will he burn everything down? Or will we have to wait for another?

History is replete with repeat until the people learn.

Anonymous p-dawg April 19, 2012 2:47 AM  

@NoahB: Most people that try to use it have contracts with the government, which places them under Admiralty jurisdiction (in personem as well as in rem). Just because the people are misapplying the strategy doesn't mean the strategy itself is invalid. It isn't a magic incantation, you can't just say "not under Admiralty jurisdiction" and make the FedGov disappear....you actually have to meet the legal definition of a status before you can claim that status. It sucks, I know, but that's life. You can't plead non-assumpsit if you are contractually bound to the government. That is the reason most lawyers and judges believe that you can no longer demur - because most people can't as they don't have the legal status to do so.

Anonymous Outlaw X April 19, 2012 3:42 AM  

Abraham petitioned God, not Lot, hard to remember. Same story other than they wanted the Angels first to have sex with. I rechecked. Lot even offered his children before the angels and the angels blinded them and they set off. Still the same story of the madmen.

Anonymous zen0 April 19, 2012 4:25 AM  

I have no idea why you feel moved to argue which fence would be easier to monitor either. Maybe you care. Rick Perry tried the electronic fence along the Texas border just long enough to get re-elected, then it was quickly abandoned

Pardon my terseness. The electronic fence I refer to is the fact that your money is just a conglomeration of electrons in a database that can be plundered at will by the state. Sure, you can try and survive in the world without it, but it would be very limiting as to your options.

Anonymous p-dawg April 19, 2012 4:53 AM  

@zen0

Indeed, it's difficult to do, but I hope it's not impossible. That is the exact road I've recently started down. Long way to go before I'm completely out of the system, but that's what I am working toward.

Blogger Emanuel Goldstein April 19, 2012 7:46 AM  

I don't plan to run away from the United States.

I was born here, and I will make my stand here.

Cowards can go live on a beach somewhere else.

Anonymous RINO April 19, 2012 8:51 AM  

RINO...."Is a border fence not the best solution given the circumstances?"

NO. There is no border fence that would keep anyone from tunneling under or climbing over.


I notice a lot of people happily use that as an argument against the fence, but it's also an argument against the "a fence will keep us in" concept.

Blogger Galt-in-Da-Box April 19, 2012 9:29 AM  

Put down yo welfare blunt & pick up a newspaper once in a while, burnout! Everyone knows what Vox is talking about but YOU.

Anonymous civilServant April 19, 2012 11:42 AM  

Much better would be effective interior enforcement....no one can work here illegally, or rent a house, or get a bank account, or wire money, or get cell phone service, or establish utilities, or get a professional or business license, or travel by air (or other common carrier), or purchase a firearm/ammo, or obtain credit, or vote.

Any mechanism sufficient to enforce this could be put to enforcing other purposes. Yes?

Anonymous Noah B. April 19, 2012 12:00 PM  

"That is the reason most lawyers and judges believe that you can no longer demur - because most people can't as they don't have the legal status to do so."

It's batshit crazy to pretend that if you don't have a bank account, social security number, etc. that you have somehow moved yourself beyond the reach of tyranny. Whether you're right about the issue of "invisible contracts" isn't even the point. (Yes, I've read the book.) Clearly, most government today doesn't function according to the rule of law. Most of its minions hold the concepts of the rule of law and limited government in total contempt. They have embraced worship of the state and the collective as their religion.

Were it not so, the federal government would be operating under the Constitution and we would not be having this discussion.

Anonymous Geoff-UK April 19, 2012 6:27 PM  

As bad as it is going to be in the U.S., consider the arable land per capita. This is where the food will be. Onerous as the govt will become (ok, MORE onerous), you're going to need to be able to grow food.

Anonymous III April 19, 2012 11:42 PM  

I notice a lot of people happily use that as an argument against the fence, but it's also an argument against the "a fence will keep us in" concept.

Think E. Germany?

Any mechanism sufficient to enforce this could be put to enforcing other purposes. Yes?

They're working on that as we speak.

Blogger The Haggard April 20, 2012 8:36 PM  

Come to Taiwan. They are in population decline and each year it is easier and easier for foreigners to enter and stay. The cost of living is low. If a real and total collapse comes, Asia is poised to do better than most places... and food grows EVERYWHERE here. The place is like Hawaii in climate and beauty, but not at all like Hawaii in costs. Learn Chinese, get a job, and become a citizen quite easily. Or live here 5 years on a year at a time visa, don't learn Chinese, and get permanent residence.

Blogger Galt-in-Da-Box April 21, 2012 11:48 AM  

You're going to find that tax bracket broadening and lowering as the country moves closer to communism, until the "leave-all-your-$#!+-behind" ideal is achieved.

Anonymous Just saying... April 25, 2012 5:20 AM  

The Haggard April 20, 2012 8:36 PM

Come to Taiwan. They are in population decline and each year it is easier and easier for foreigners to enter and stay. The cost of living is low. If a real and total collapse comes, Asia is poised to do better than most places... and food grows EVERYWHERE here. The place is like Hawaii in climate and beauty, but not at all like Hawaii in costs. Learn Chinese, get a job, and become a citizen quite easily. Or live here 5 years on a year at a time visa, don't learn Chinese, and get permanent residence.


But what about when China and the USA both implode, and Imperial Nippon rises again?

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