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Monday, July 16, 2012

In defense of mass murder

I find myself contemplating quitting. No, not the blog. And not writing in general. But it is really incredible to see how few people at WND are interested in substantive matters like a conceptual revolution in economics versus other, considerably less significant issues.

There are all of two comments on today's WND column. That's less than one-twentieth of how many comment on any given column. And it's not the WND readership, it wouldn't be any better if I wrote for Salon, the New York Times, or the Daily Show. I mean, it's not that I don't understand MPAI, I coined the acronym after all. But that's true for varying degrees of "most" and sometimes the percentage is just a little higher than I can fathom. I mean, the world is on the brink of a total economic meltdown, and still no one gives a damn about why? I feel like Jonah staring at the walls of Nineveh, stomping up and down the beach, gesticulating wildly and saying: "Go ahead and do it, Lord, let them have it, you know they deserve it!"

Seriously, I'm not sure I can deal with trying to pretend I don't think a world where the best-selling novel is Twilight fan fiction deserves to perish in fire and ice. I used to wonder to whom the old Norse pagan religion held any appeal, but now I understand completely. If I read one more idiot Republican bank apologist claiming that the root cause of the financial crisis was Democratic politicians forcing banks to provide home loans to minorities, I may climb the Rainbow Bridge, wrest the horn from Heimdall and blow it myself. Then I'll sit there and cheer for the frost giants and fire demons.

I'm considering a literary experiment of sorts. I'm wondering how much more interest would be expressed in the dumbest, most lowbrow column I can get past the editors devoted to the simple and straightforward concept of Obama being bad. Bad for the nation. Bad for the world! Bad. So bad. I'm thinking of calling it: Obama is Bad. Subtitled: Obama is really and truly very bad for America.

And if the column hits Drudge and results in an offer from Fox News to host my own cable news show, I'm going to give up op/ed, study genetics, build a lab, and start creating customized killer viruses.

Labels: ,

155 Comments:

Anonymous TLM July 16, 2012 5:13 PM  

Just make sure you co-author it with Jerome Corsi. Winning

Anonymous Stilicho July 16, 2012 5:14 PM  

I don't comment there because I comment here. But even here, econ posts generate less discussion than other topics. Head-in-the-sand-itis I suppose. Or people truly do not grasp what a pervasive effect these economic matters have on nearly every aspect of their daily lives.

Alternative topic: Feminism is bad for you (50 Shades of Day). I dare you.

Anonymous stg58 July 16, 2012 5:15 PM  

My dad spent a lot of time in the literary world (He was a writer, after all) and told me that publishing was going down that path. Books are getting progressively simpler and appeal to idiots more and more.

He told me about an experiment performed by bibliophiles that involved submitting manuscripts of famous books that had received awards and were pillars of western civilization, but with different names. The Yearling was even submitted, but with a different name. All of these books were rejected by publishers as being either not profitable or terrible writing.

Anonymous Sun Xhu July 16, 2012 5:16 PM  

Sounds like a winner, and a topic for a new best-seller, published by WND.

Anonymous Sun Xhu July 16, 2012 5:17 PM  

"So what is MPAI?"

Most People Are Idiots.

Anonymous Faust July 16, 2012 5:25 PM  

Well,
"Perhaps the most revelatory section of the book deals with the way the General Theory of John Maynard Keynes was converted into the practical neoclassical form that presently dominates mainstream economics in its two halves, Monetarist and Neo-Keynesian, by Paul Samuelson and J.R. Hicks. While it is no secret that Samuelson quantified many of the concepts introduced by Keynes, as one will search “The General Theory” in vain for gross domestic product or any of the macroeconomic terms that are so familiar today, I had always wondered about the basis for the IS/LM model that played such a central role in my macroeconomic class could be found in Keynes; none of my economics professors ever pointed out that it was provided in what was essentially a book review of Keynes’s magnum opus or admitted how this core function of “Keynesian” economics inherently contradicted what Keynes himself wrote."

^- This is an extraordinarily interesting paragraph, but you've got to admit it's going to be hard for someone without some basic MacroEcon training to follow. How many of your WND readers do you think have such training?

Anonymous Richardthughes July 16, 2012 5:26 PM  

I like it when WND finds the resting place of Noah's ark, twice a year. ;-)
/troll.

Anonymous Charles July 16, 2012 5:29 PM  

50 Shades of Day! I'll buy copies to spread around.

Anonymous RL July 16, 2012 5:31 PM  

Vox, you stated you sold 6000 copies of RGD. How many copies of Debunking Economics has Keen sold? 10,000 if he is lucky? Oh, not that many-oh boy. Everyone I know, including my immediate family, is so self absorbed that they won't notice anything until it all comes crashing down in flames.

Climb the Rainbow Bridge, grab the horn and blow. We are already so phuucked that it hardly matters anymore. Some will survive it, some won't.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey July 16, 2012 5:31 PM  

I assume that you are developing the viruses just so that you can later develop the government-madated vaccines that will be the true source of destruction for mankind. I smell your plot, and I will not take the vaccine.

Anonymous Shutterbug July 16, 2012 5:33 PM  

DO IT!! DO IT!! Oh, pleeeze DO IT!!! (the horn, the column, everything!) The entertainment will keep me going as well as the knowledge that SOMEONE out there will actually follow through on the threat to shake things up.

I know you won't hear me, but I promise to applaude.

Anonymous Seriously... July 16, 2012 5:34 PM  

Well at least then you would be doing something but crying like a little baby.

Blogger JDC July 16, 2012 5:34 PM  

Please do it! Don't forget to add a healthy dose of, "just wait until OFlama gets into his second term rhetoric - they eat that stuff up." It also won't hurt to hype your soon to come eschatalogical fiction novel.

Anonymous Idle Spectator July 16, 2012 5:34 PM  

Vox I told you, it is all that fag-talk again. I mean, Keynes? That guy was a ballerina-marrying poofer who did a bunch of mathy stuff.

You should start writing cable TV shows.

Ow My balls!

Anonymous Josh July 16, 2012 5:38 PM  

I comment here, not at wnd.

Judging by the comments on wnd and the letters to the editor, wnd readers are the biggest morons on the right side of the internets.

And farah is a gigantic vagina...

Anonymous Stingray July 16, 2012 5:39 PM  

You could always go the V for Vendetta route.

Anonymous jack July 16, 2012 5:40 PM  

You've either had too much, or not enough fine Italian wine today...

Adjust dosage as needed.

Anonymous Heimdall July 16, 2012 5:40 PM  

No.

You won't.

Anonymous Josh July 16, 2012 5:41 PM  

Also,

OH THE ANGST, THE ANGST! IT BURNS LIKE THE HEART OF THE SUN AGAINST MY PASTY SKIN! TAKE ME AWAY FROM THIS CRUEL, STUPID WORLD!

SUCH GREAT ANGST!

Anonymous DrRansom July 16, 2012 5:41 PM  

I just got here - I was Googling "Obama is bad". Forget all that other gibberish - tell me more about this badness? And the Democrats - how it's all their fault? Where do I stick my money!?!

Anonymous Stingray July 16, 2012 5:43 PM  

econ posts generate less discussion than other topics. Head-in-the-sand-itis I suppose.

I would guess a lot of that has to do with not having the knowledge or the understanding to make worthwhile comments. I come here to learn, but I don't understand enough about the economic posts to even generate any type of decent comment on those threads. It would be foolish of me to even try.

Anonymous Andre July 16, 2012 5:47 PM  

"SUCCESS COMES MOST SWIFTLY AND COMPLETELY NOT TO THE GREATEST OR PERHAPS EVEN TO THE ABLEST MEN, BUT TO THOSE WHOSE GIFTS ARE MOST COMPLETELY IN HARMONY WITH THE TASTE OF THEIR TIMES."

Anonymous simon July 16, 2012 5:48 PM  

Uh, it's because no one gives a fuck about economics. Here we are in the biggest existential crisis a nation and its inhabitants have ever gone through, and you want them to care about such an inane, meaningless subject?

Anonymous mjb July 16, 2012 5:48 PM  

Vox, being that you live abroad, I don't know if you run into this sort of reaction from the dumb republicans on a face-to-face level. The rest of us do on a daily level and have been jaded for years now. Welcome to the club.

Anonymous Scintan July 16, 2012 5:51 PM  

Seriously, I'm not sure I can deal with trying to pretend I don't think a world where the best-selling novel is Twilight fan fiction deserves to perish in fire and ice.

Economics is not

exciting
good reading
a win/lose situation
particularly accurate in the best of times
close to accurate in the worst of times
taught to people when they'd be young enough to care

It's not that MPAI, although that's always an issue to some level or another. It's that the particular subject is complicated, filled with errors on all sides, foreign to most people, and boring as hell to read.

So, like the Christians who must speak to a largely uncaring populace, you're going to have to keep slogging on despite the lac of interest on the part of most of humanity. Winning a few converts, and sparking an interest in a couple of people here and there, is about the best you can hope for.

You could probably find a more interested audience if you started posting on oriental websites.

Anonymous Josh July 16, 2012 5:51 PM  

Actually, if you did write the review in something like the nyt or the wsj, you would probably find a significant number of comments. WND isn't exactly full of a highbrow level of commentary.

Anonymous Randall July 16, 2012 5:54 PM  

And if the column hits Drudge and results in an offer from Fox News to host my own cable news show, I'm going to give up op/ed, study genetics, build a lab, and start creating customized killer viruses.

If you can't beat them, join them?

Blogger SolemnSentinel July 16, 2012 5:55 PM  

Need to see if its possible to target males in the lower IQ range, and fat chicks...

Anonymous Crispy July 16, 2012 5:58 PM  

From the movie Amadeus:

Emperor Joseph II: My dear young man, don't take it too hard. Your work is ingenious. It's quality work. And there are simply too many notes, that's all. Just cut a few and it will be perfect.
Mozart: Which few did you have in mind, Majesty?

Anonymous vandelay July 16, 2012 6:01 PM  

Vox, this is the funniest/saddest post I've ever read on this site.
I'm guessing two or three more glasses of wine with dinner than usual?

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2012 6:02 PM  

As an old Cherokee Indian observed, the culture is getting "mighty thin". But then the culture isn't a discussion we can have! Keep it up Vox!

Anonymous VD July 16, 2012 6:03 PM  

Actually, if you did write the review in something like the nyt or the wsj, you would probably find a significant number of comments.

Have you ever read the comments at Krugman's NYT blog? Highbrow it ain't.

"Oh, Professor Krugman, that was SOOOOO brilliant! If only Obama would listen to you!"

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2012 6:03 PM  

A - you failed to cross link your WND column this time, as is your normal custom. i don't frequent WND and normally only go there to read the full text of your editorial ... because you never post the full text here.

ya damn pusherman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCDAfa-NI-M

B - if i WAS going to comment, i'd do it here

C - unless i'm going to ask for clarification OR dispute a point i'm unlikely to post at all. you COULD view the lack of response as the Silent Majority in action. ;-]

in my specific case, i was walking around telling people in 2008 that bankers and congress critters from the banking committee should be swinging from lamp posts all around the Washington mall. everybody looked at me like i was crazy.



given all of that, the hilarity of you starting your own gene lab with the express purpose of wiping out humanity has a giggle factor that too the moon.

i say, "Get er done."

Anonymous Curlytop July 16, 2012 6:08 PM  

Stingray said:
"I would guess a lot of that has to do with not having the knowledge or the understanding to make worthwhile comments. I come here to learn, but I don't understand enough about the economic posts to even generate any type of decent comment on those threads. It would be foolish of me to even try."

This would be me as well. I read every LAST one of Vox's economic posts/columns, but commenting? No, that's quite laughable unless I have a real question that I need answering. The ironic thing is that WND is how I found Vox. But that was a looong time ago, and frankly as long as you're not giving up the Blog or your other writing endeavors, I'm good.

Anonymous Gx1080 July 16, 2012 6:08 PM  

An interesting phenomenon that I observe on the Internet is that the smarter posts get the fewest comments, mainly because everybody says "yeah, I agree" and then move on.

So yeah.

That out, a question for Vox and everybody: How do you people handle the "hurr, the Church shields their pedophiles and deserves to be burner to the ground for it" liberal mantra?

Anonymous The Grammaratron July 16, 2012 6:09 PM  

I functional idiot requires institutionalization. An extreme idiot requires a rubber room. Imbeciles are functional in society, but generally and genetically do not possess an IQ above 80. (i.e. Forrest Gump). This leaves us with the remainder of society who willfully practice ignorance. This group of 80+ IQ generally have at least a high school (USA) education. MPAM = Most People Are MORONS. (Not to be confused with idiot or imbecile). A Moron is at least a fairly educated (mal-educated via a corrupt system) person who is PROGRAMMED to practice willful ignorance. One can blame the system equally with blaming the person who chooses it... (Matt. 24:24)


-------------
* Source: Doug Casey
* Most modern dictionaries (post 20th century) are highly inadequate for proper definitions.
* There is a special kind of moron. That of the evangelical type. For amplification, see this, Chapter 16.

Anonymous Josh July 16, 2012 6:12 PM  

Have you ever read the comments at Krugman's NYT blog? Highbrow it ain't. "Oh, Professor Krugman, that was SOOOOO brilliant! If only Obama would listen to you!"

I don't read krugman's blog, I had no idea it was as bad as that.

I think the discourse at this blog spoils one for the rest of the internet.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2012 6:15 PM  

ah, i see. you titled your post here as a "book review". it's not unless i look at the bottom of the post for the tag list that i find the "WND" marker.


Gx1080 July 16, 2012 6:08 PM
That out, a question for Vox and everybody: How do you people handle the "hurr, the Church shields their pedophiles and deserves to be burner to the ground for it" liberal mantra?


most of us aren't Catholic, so to even ask us the question is a non-sequitur.

if they persist in trying to tar us with the sins of the Catholic priesthood it's usually enough to point out that there is a HIGHER PERCENTAGE of child molestation amongst PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS than there is in the priesthood.

things usually get quiet pretty fast after that.

Anonymous patrick kelly July 16, 2012 6:26 PM  

I keep hearing tht South Park teacher saying "Obama is bad, m-kay?"

Blogger Brian July 16, 2012 6:27 PM  

You have been writing a lot about economics lately. Most of it can be summed up as "Things are bad, and the people we elect keep making it worse." What else is there to say, really?

Anonymous Difster July 16, 2012 6:29 PM  

VD, you should give up this column and take on a year long project to build up a blog where you write everything that is antithetical to what you actually believe. You already know how to use people's words against them, not use their own words to draw them in.

At the end of one year when you have a ton of readers, drop the hammer and expose them for what they really are. Keep tabs on the most idiotic but vocal commenters and publish a "best of" when you're all done. Then leave the blog there for reference.

So much joy.

Anonymous The Grammaratron Redux July 16, 2012 6:34 PM  

To test if one is well above the classification -- moron, read this. [1] If you loved it, and require more, then congratulations. You are in a select group of individuals, who -- gets it...



-------------
[1] Not certain if a one Col. Jessup [type] is among this elect. Now a certain Olivia Dunham [type] -- probably.

Anonymous puckit July 16, 2012 6:35 PM  

I think the discourse at this blog spoils one for the rest of the internet.

Indeed.

And Vox, I would be interested in donating money to your lab project...

Anonymous Mountain Man July 16, 2012 6:38 PM  

I found the column a bit difficult to read, but I am a relative neophyte regarding these economic concepts. Much of what I have learned I have learned here, and I've still got a ways to go.

I was looking for a good time with skewering and witty reparte, but got a date with the homely valadictorian instead.

Anonymous DrTorch July 16, 2012 6:40 PM  

Ah, so suddenly science is now appealing, eh?

Yuppers, when people finally reach that moment of humility, they recognize the benefits of science.

I feel like Frieda w/ her naturally curly hair.

Anonymous Rantor July 16, 2012 6:41 PM  

Ahhh frustration. I have it frequently.

Well I read the column, I intend to buy the book. I don't normally comment at WND... I am not sure what one comments about a book review when one has not read the book.

I willnow try to think of something. Will have to impersonate the misses... I don't have Facebook.

Please, be at peace.

Blogger Positive Dennis July 16, 2012 6:47 PM  

I think a lot of us understand the frustration in this post, and it is very funny. I did something similar on my blog. I gave my small readership a sample of what a true prophet might say to them.

“What you are doing is not working. Why do you think you can be a people of violence, and not be subject to violence? When you bash in the heads of the little ones of your enemies, do you really think that your little ones will not suffer the same fate? The hungry cry at the street corners and you drive on by in your Mercedes. Do you think God is blind? The drunk stands on the corner and pretends to cry, so even the just are unable to act rightly. After eating a feast that would feed two you tell the waitress, 'Yes, I want the banana split.' The poor see their bones, but you can't see your toes.”

“I will not even bother to punish you. Instead I will let your own sins blowback be your punishment. Soon you will see your toes again, but you will not rejoice. The Greenlawn you are destined for will turn brown when your children cannot pay your bills. Will your children repent, or will they instead curse you?  ‘Our parents have bought swimming pools, and borrowed money for vacations in Aruba, and there is nothing left for us but this t-shirt.’”

http://www.prophecypodcast.com/journal/2012/4/6/blind-deaf-and-oh-so-dumb.html

Anonymous Mr. Nightstick July 16, 2012 6:48 PM  

Nobody ever listened to the prophets or Jesus either but they didn't give up and neither should you. The right people are listening and reading.

In the morning sow your seed, and at evening withhold not your hand, for you do not know which will prosper, this or that, or whether both alike will be good.

Anonymous Salt July 16, 2012 6:50 PM  

Vox, you do well being a regular contributor at ZeroHedge. Even it gets mentioned in the MSM, mostly at CNBC. You could be on with Rick Santelli.

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2012 6:55 PM  

Bob,

do you have a link for that stat about teachers?

Thanks

Anonymous Flinders July 16, 2012 6:58 PM  

I honestly rarely comment here and I never comment of WND.

Was planning to just buy the book actually. But in my experience, what little I have tried to share about the future of the economy falls on deaf ears.

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2012 7:02 PM  

I don't know if it makes you feel any better, but I actually printed out your column today and highlighted your Economics reading list. I suppose I have now revealed myself as a true Philistine for admitting I am unfamiliar with most (but not all) of the books you listed.

P.S.: I have never read any of the Twilight series; nor have I read 50 Shades of Gray.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 16, 2012 7:09 PM  

Anonymous July 16, 2012 6:55 PM
Bob,
do you have a link for that stat about teachers?



Vox posted on it here:
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2011/11/mailvox-inevitable-response.html


also, lower case, please. i know exactly where the shift key is.

Blogger Tim July 16, 2012 7:16 PM  

I wonder who exactly it is that you are writing for. If you are writing for professional economists, then your columns and economic posts may be very appropriately written. But for the merely amateur economist, with other time consuming jobs, etc your writings may be over most of our heads.

I have refrained from commenting because I am not sure how much I can add to the discussion as I am trying now just to catch up. You list theories and models in your writing that I have never heard of before. For example: you mentioned a IS/LM model. This is something that I had never heard of before reading your article, and yet you've mentioned it in passing. Which will mean that if I want to thoroughly understand your article I'll need to look of things like this before I can understand.

I know that I am behind in my economic reading, and I'm working on it, but it will be a while before I will be able to catch up.

Just so you know where I am coming from: I am 26, have an IQ of around 130, and every standardized test that I have taken leads me to believe that I have better reading retention than essentially everybody. I have read Free to Choose, The Road to Serfdom, Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell, etc. I am currently reading Man, Economy, and State. I have read more than anyone I know about economics and yet I cannot compare to your knowledge.

(When I took macroeconomics I stopped listening to the teacher when he tried to convince the class that a $10/ hr minimum wage would be good, and we watched a video on how Henry Ford caused the great depression. In microeconomics I did a lot better when I ignored my new teacher's book on the subject and bought my own, A Free Market Guide to Microeconomics.)

It could also be that you are so far along in your knowledge of economics that you have forgotten some of what it took to get you there. I played Madden in college. I could change the assignment of every player on my side of the field pre-snap as fast as I could press the buttons, but if I tried to explain the series of buttons I pressed to someone else I would be unable to do tell them; I did it automatically.

If you want my suggestion on a book to introduce the most basic of libertarian ideas I recommend: Bourbon for Breakfast by Jeffrey Tucker, of the Mises Institute. I think that books that are that simple are much more approachable for beginners to economics.

Whatever you decide to do I will be here reading your work and trying to understand.

Thanks for writing.

Anonymous Spectator July 16, 2012 7:17 PM  

I would recommend the title "Obama is Bad:Romney, Less Bad"

Anonymous zen0 July 16, 2012 7:18 PM  

@ VD

Have you ever read the comments at Krugman's NYT blog? Highbrow it ain't.



Thats the way uh-huh-uh-huh he likes it. Some Spanish Austrian econonomist mildly dissed him in a debate recently and he reacted like a diva with her hormones on parade.

Blogger Eric Mueller July 16, 2012 7:21 PM  

I read your column and thought it was great. I added the book to my reading list. I generally don't comment on WND because I don't feel like getting into it with "Republicrats will save us! You must be nice to them!" people. Also, I'm kind of embarrassed to have WND ads displayed at work where people can walk behind me.

Anonymous Idle Spectator July 16, 2012 7:21 PM  

I would recommend the title "Obama is Bad:Romney, Less Bad"

From one native Spectatoran to another: solid gold. The binary helps get the message through.

Anonymous zen0 July 16, 2012 7:23 PM  

The Grammaratron Redux July 16, 2012 6:34 pm

begone troll....Willie Loman calls to you.

Blogger IM2L844 July 16, 2012 7:37 PM  

I think you should go for a totally outlandish satire piece. Something like: Obama's authenticated private diary from 1980 Discovered in a Los Angeles garage sale. It's content reportedly confirms lifelong ties to "Uncle George" [Soros] as well as his Kenyan birthplace, his reverence for Allah, his hatred for the United States of America and a blood oath made with the Satan for his soul in exchange for...

Anonymous Res Ipsa July 16, 2012 7:37 PM  

"And if the column hits Drudge and results in an offer from Fox News to host my own cable news show,"

I don't know, how do you look in a mini skirt? This might work for you. It may even be your calling.

I hope you don't give it up. There are a few of us who have been enjoying your writting for some time. I started reading your stuff in hopes of picking up tips on tech trends and I've stuck with it because its intersting and to a degree you've become part of my day.

Vox, you're a 2%'er. Those of us firmly in the 3% to 5% are the only ones who even stand a chance of understanding what you're saying. The other 95% might be able to grasp some of it, but its too much work. I understand the frustration. I read but seldom comment anymore, because its often a pointless excercise. Thank you for your good work, and after todays piece I think I'll buy his book, based on your recomendation.

BTW, you're right on the econ. What can we do? The fix is in and has been in for some time. The chickens are comming home to roost.

Anonymous Russell July 16, 2012 7:40 PM  

You're doing Isaiah's job, and the remnant are listening.

Anonymous jSinSaTx July 16, 2012 7:50 PM  

The topic was books. Few readers. Even here few finished the voxiversity selections. Attention span issues and things competing for time. Commenting on articles in general is pretty much a waste. At least here there is a possibility the author will engage. Not likely in most forums.

Anonymous maniacprovost July 16, 2012 7:52 PM  

If I didn't work 40 to 100 hours a week providing for crack addicts and illegal immigrants, I'd comment more, but not on WND. The majority of the people equipped to understand your writing are too busy to hang out online.

Anyway, what would I say? That your contrarian opposition to free trade is riddled with subtle flaws that are obscured only by an inappropriate choice of model?

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2012 7:54 PM  

Thanks Bob!

Anonymous Stickwick July 16, 2012 7:54 PM  

... I'm going to give up op/ed, study genetics, build a lab, and start creating customized killer viruses.

Customized killer robots would be more fun.

I've stopped reading anything to do with economics, because I feel completely hopeless about the impending crisis. I no longer care what could or should be done, because government is sure to do the exact opposite and make it worse. I no longer care to know what's gonna happen because, like the guy said in Full Metal Jacket, I already know it's gonna be a huge sh*t sandwich and we're all gonna have to take a bite. As far as I'm concerned, the details are for professional economists and scholars to study for curiosity's sake. All I want to know is where to bury my gold and how much food and ammo to stockpile to get through the next few years.

Anonymous FrankBrady July 16, 2012 7:56 PM  

I'll chip in toward acquisition of a gross of white lab coats.

FJB

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2012 7:58 PM  

Sorry about the upper case bob.

Brad

Anonymous zen0 July 16, 2012 8:05 PM  

Idle Spectator July 16, 2012 7:21 PM

I would recommend the title "Obama is Bad:Romney, Less Bad"

From one native Spectatoran to another: solid gold. The binary helps get the message through.


I like OBAMA BAD, ROMNEY MORE BADDER

Anonymous Shild July 16, 2012 8:08 PM  

What do you expect? Most people don't have any emotional investment in economics.

This is because economics is amoral; it describes what people do, not what they should do. Only theories with obvious moral consequences really get people excited.

If it's not telling people what to do, then it comes off as a hobby - intellectually stimulating but with no emotional punch.

Anonymous E. PERLINE July 16, 2012 8:09 PM  

Let's say the presidential election goes awry and Obama wins. We will be lead by the same adolescent for four more years. All that time he will attempt to finish what he started in the first four years, to harden this country into an immature kind of national socialism. And with Muslim influences too.

Let's say that all taxes together presently force Americans to work at least 6 or 7 months out of the year for the state. Even though MPAI, the idea will finally dawn on them that they've been sold into liberal slavery. They will demand a more extreme political change then the one we have now, one that Romney, were he to get elected, could not supply enough of.

Anonymous Outlaw X July 16, 2012 8:24 PM  

It has been said that hard truth passes though three stages

"Denial, violent opposition then common knowledge."

After they deny it they shift to shooting the messenger, then when it becomes self evident they will claim they knew it all along.

Why bother?

Anonymous Stilicho July 16, 2012 8:28 PM  

Uh, it's because no one gives a fuck about economics. Here we are in the biggest existential crisis a nation and its inhabitants have ever gone through, and you want them to care about such an inane, meaningless subject?

Yeah, 'cause economic issues have nothing to do with that state of affairs...

Anonymous zen0 July 16, 2012 8:28 PM  

Oh, wait. I meant Obama more badder. It is hard to get this thing down.

Anonymous Kickass July 16, 2012 8:42 PM  

This is what I figured. But I like this outburst, very artsy.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 16, 2012 8:43 PM  

Vox, consider what God told Ezekiel when he first called him to be a prophet and how God said to him that the people will not listen to him from the beginning. Or Jeremiah, who having been vindicated in everything that he had previously prophesied, still faced idolaters while in exile in Egypt.

The point is, not every man can reach the dumb masses. But we must always try because every once and while, enough of them aren't idiots.

And seriously, don't be such a whiner. Your blog has the readership that I could only dream of on mine. For a blog that is based off of Google's blogger service and is primarily political and economic in nature, that is saying a lot.

Anonymous paradox July 16, 2012 8:46 PM  

By Oden's beard! You have to do it! If you add how Obama worships Loki and is the Muslim messiah, bent on the destruction of Israel. Which said event will trigger Ragnarok and the rapture of Thor's believers.

Blogger Rod Freeman July 16, 2012 8:47 PM  

I'd be careful. Your arrival in the US to climb the bridge might prompt the IRS to detain you on fear of you renouncing your Heimdallian citizenship.

Anonymous Kickass July 16, 2012 8:48 PM  

You would think, being the AWCA that he is, that he would realise that those of us brave/stupid enough to wade in on the fluffy stuff run the other way on econ posts. Vox, seriously, how many times do you want to answer, "lol, who is mises...he sounds cute ;)"

Anonymous Kickass July 16, 2012 8:50 PM  

Listen to hannity, your ears will bleed. I used to love listening to that guy.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation (Ben) July 16, 2012 8:50 PM  

This post cracked me up. I understand the reasons why the economy is headed downwards. I'm just numb to the bad news now and besides, the time for understanding is over. It's time to prepare for the worst and hunker down.

It's all FUBAR now and all we can do is scream as we go off the cliff.

Anonymous Kickass July 16, 2012 8:51 PM  

He could try preaching the Gospel.

Anonymous JohnR July 16, 2012 8:54 PM  

Swiftfoxmark has it right, Vox you are not Jonah, you are Isaiah.

Have you read Isaiah's Job by Albert Jay Nock?

The main point follows:

"In the year of Uzziah's death, the Lord commissioned the prophet to go out and warn the people of the wrath to come. "Tell them what a worthless lot they are." He said, "Tell them what is wrong, and why and what is going to happen unless they have a change of heart and straighten up. Don't mince matters. Make it clear that they are positively down to their last chance. Give it to them good and strong and keep on giving it to them. I suppose perhaps I ought to tell you," He added, "that it won't do any good. The official class and their intelligentsia will turn up their noses at you and the masses will not even listen. They will all keep on in their own ways until they carry everything down to destruction, and you will probably be lucky if you get out with your life."

"Isaiah had been very willing to take on the job – in fact, he had asked for it – but the prospect put a new face on the situation. It raised the obvious question: Why, if all that were so – if the enterprise were to be a failure from the start – was there any sense in starting it? "Ah," the Lord said, "you do not get the point. There is a Remnant there that you know nothing about. They are obscure, unorganized, inarticulate, each one rubbing along as best he can. They need to be encouraged and braced up because when everything has gone completely to the dogs, they are the ones who will come back and build up a new society; and meanwhile, your preaching will reassure them and keep them hanging on. Your job is to take care of the Remnant, so be off now and set about it."

This is you, preaching to the Remnant.

Anonymous Outlaw X July 16, 2012 8:54 PM  

The End of America and Cute Puppies

When I was a child my father told me “When a black man from the East takes the presidency that will be the End of America'”. Passed down from generation to generation in my family I always thought it was just a saying. Now I believe it was much more than a crazy prophecy.

Obama not only signed the NDAA he ate dog as a child. I don't know which I would consider worse but both are nation ending omens. Obama it is said to have preferred the cute puppies and the first ladies shadow “Let's Move” campaign is a move to have all Americans eating the cute puppies.

Herbert Hoover promised "a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage?" Obama is going to announce soon for his re-election bid: “A Puppy in every Pot and a Volt in every Garage...

...In conclusion, if Romney is not elected it will truly be the End of America and prophecy fulfilled.

Dox Vay

Anonymous Rantor July 16, 2012 8:58 PM  

As far as mass murder goes, Prince Phillip expressed similar sentiment as he wants to be reincarnated as a terrible virus that kills off much of mankind. Of course this sociopathy is unchristian and I trust you can get over this. I don't think Phillip will get over his sociopathy.

Anonymous No_Limit_Bubba July 16, 2012 9:19 PM  

Currently on Drudge:
CNBC:How close are we to the New Great Depression?

Anonymous The OASF July 16, 2012 9:31 PM  

This is the best I've read here in a while.

I fully hope that you go for it VD... see if you can stoop lower than the fat, greasy, fluoride-infested, herpes ridden, perverted, envious, ignorant, brainwashed, moronic average American scum bag that most of us slaves have to deal with at work or walmart.

Smart money would bet that you can't do it. But I love the effort.

I do disagree with one thing... it most likely is the degenerate WND readership. I have suggested years prior that you abandon Arab Joe's neo-con war propaganda page. Indeed, if Arab Joe could get anyone to actually read screwball clown "intellectuals" like the "Fighting Jew Mulzltoff" or wtf his name is... he would have kicked you and pitchfork pat so far off the page you would have landed on an upstart huffington post funny board.

Come to think of it, the "comments" you are reading on other WND columns might very well be well-paid trolls of the AIPAC variety. I've always wonder where Arab Joe's money trail would lead. And how his dinky lowbrow website gets White House press passes that most outlets would kill their grandmother's for (I believe Obama donated more to Arab Joe's site then anyone by Arab Joe's own admission). I just can't believe that WND generates much revenue from bimbo blonds advertising "conservative" t-shirts.

Anyway... this alludes to my intellectual journey, which took me from FoxNews fanboy to one who realizes that the "right wing" is really an anti-christian quasi-fascist brownshirt minority that will meet the fate of their German ancestors in a much more brutal and comical way. Won't it be the funniest thing in the world to watch a you-tube video of a neo-con FoxNews teleprompter reciter being slapped around by a FEMA camp guard? Or maybe imagine the fun those big-boys will have with Ann Coulter... wink, wink!

Anonymous JartStar July 16, 2012 9:39 PM  

I've stopped reading anything to do with economics, because I feel completely hopeless about the impending crisis. I no longer care what could or should be done, because government is sure to do the exact opposite and make it worse.

I'm with you. Besides the occasional big news I ignore the rest. My advice to everyone is stick to your plan, tune out the noise and you'll be a lot happier. The more I do pay attention the more I think nobody, not even Vox, really knows what the hell is going to happen and when.

Anonymous Rantor July 16, 2012 9:50 PM  

I'd love to see an interview of Vox by Rick Santelli... I think you two might even hit it off in some bizarre way.

Don't right anything stupid, waste of time.

Blogger A July 16, 2012 10:05 PM  

There was a time when I fell in love with the Mises Institute and everything economics. I saw how important economics was everything in life and how the world was a worse place because people didn't understand the technicalities of the free market. Then I lost interest in all of it and I haven't been able to recover.

I dunno, maybe many other people have gone through this same experience before, where you become intensely interested in something, learn a lot about it, wade through dozens of books on the topic, then wake up one morning and simply cease caring about it and don't know why. I contemplated buying Keen's book, but then again, I hadn't even gotten through Rothbard's second volume on economic history yet and my reading list kept growing. I even subscribed to Keen's RSS feed, knowing that he wrote intelligent things worth reading, but after the posts kept piling up I lost interest and succumbed to laziness, thinking what was the point?

I now find myself struggling with the idea that building the remnant which libertarians talk of is little more than an echo chamber that thinks it's important because it's using the internet. One morning when I found myself contemplating which was better, anarchism or minarchism, I woke up and said to myself, "what the HELL does it matter?" The gov't isn't getting any smaller, people's intelligence hasn't changed, RP was a spectacular flop, and no one is going to go back to the Articles of Confederation or full-blown anarcho-capitalism anytime anywhere outside of SF/F. I've given it up and have resigned myself to schadenfreude, I don't see how one cannot follow this route.

Anonymous Daniel July 16, 2012 10:18 PM  

Sign it:

"Sincerely, a Nephilim in Niflheim."

Anonymous The One July 16, 2012 10:20 PM  

Guess that leaves you out as someone of significance George...

Anonymous Red July 16, 2012 10:23 PM  

The only consistent thing about economics is how it's always wrong. Wrong predictions, wrong solutions, and it's always someone else's fault when it doesn't work. The average person believes that the study of economics is as relevant as arguing how many angels dance on the head of a pin.

Economics is bullshit philosophy that wastes smart people's talents on word games instead of real tangible results.

If you want to do review something that's new to modern thought and might actually be useful try a book called: Debt the first 5000 years by David Graeber.

Yes Graeber is a commie. Yes his book is tainted with his world view. But it has a ton of history that is completely ignored and in the long run may prove much more useful.

Anonymous zen0 July 16, 2012 10:23 PM  

I've given it up and have resigned myself to schadenfreude, I don't see how one cannot follow this route.

People like you die in the prison camps just before the armies of liberation show up.

Meanwhile, you have discouraged hundreds who die with you.

Defiance is an end in itself. The armies of liberation will come....they are always on their way.....be here any minute...how about a nice game of chess?

Anonymous yukonyon July 16, 2012 10:43 PM  

Vox, you could always turn to becoming a Mormon apologist. Then no one will be interested in your work.

Anonymous III July 16, 2012 11:03 PM  

Can I help with baking the virus's?

Blogger Nate July 16, 2012 11:09 PM  

"I don't know, how do you look in a mini skirt? This might work for you. It may even be your calling."

Hey Res..

JAC and I are gonna be rolling through Colorado and maybe Wyoming next week. Wanna grab a beer?

Anonymous Koanic July 16, 2012 11:19 PM  

There's not much an intelligent layman can add to that article except "Interesting. Well done. Keep going."

Please do troll though.

And perhaps tape a printout of the IQ bell curve above your monitor.

Anonymous The Stig July 16, 2012 11:21 PM  

Ten years ago I was writing, involved, engaged. The last couple years I've given into a pure apathy. There's no hope...of this I'm convinced. I'm concentrated on the micro...faith, family, career (survival) all that stuff. Damn the rest, I'm tired of it. We are outnumbered. I pray for guidance and strength.

Of course, I find myself not wanting to give up.

Blogger Miguel D'Anconia July 16, 2012 11:22 PM  

Vox,
I read your book review and thoroughly enjoyed it. Enough in fact to add it to my amazon wish list. I'm not your typical stupid American, I read "This Time is Different" and loved it. I also read "When Money Dies" and enjoyed it as well. I never comment on WND because by and large the readership are neocon idiots. Their breadth of knowledge is "Obama Bad", "Bush Good". They are as non-thinking as the socialist democrat sheeple they profess to be so much better than. A pox on both their houses I say.
I was born in the US but have seen the nation I grew up in (I'm 47), die and be replaced by something abhorrent. There is still a remnant of people who hold to a liberty loving, moral sense of being but by and large I think amerikans are ignorant (products of state indoctrination centers called public schools), stupid, arrogant and lazy. They have the government they deserve. Hopefully the system will reach its inevitable end quickly and the productive can rebuild.
Commenters please spare me the if you don't like it leave BS. Read your history and tell me if those who rebelled against mother England in the 1770's would be proud of this nation today.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch July 16, 2012 11:30 PM  

Vox,

I understand your post 100%. I'm totally in agreement and I can empathize with your frustration in reaching out...to anyone.

The world is in flames, yet people are dumber than ever. I've given up telling folks about it, and I've given up worrying about it.

The collective idiocy of just about everyone is the primary reason I gave up trying to write anything before I ever even began.

Anonymous Orville July 16, 2012 11:36 PM  

Screw it. Being a contrarian I'd worry if I'd lost the plot if many people started paying serious attention to what I was saying.

Not just the US, but the "system" is collapsing as they all eventually do, to be replaced by something else. I've pretty much stopped mourning or being worried about it, and now I'm more focused on sharping the mental and physical tools I have for whatever comes next...if I survive. If I don't then I will look down from heaven as God mocks the wicked, and give a little chuckle for what is coming.

For what it's worth, your econ efforts, though dry, have been enlightening.

Anonymous Anonymous July 16, 2012 11:53 PM  

The importance of “a conceptual revolution in economics”?

There is a point where ad hom is invalid: namely when the author of the idea is a beast (more properly, known to be corrupt): Westcott & Hort (fathers of parapsychology, spiritualists, etc); Keynes – loved them cheap “bed and boys”, was such a pervert his fellow paedophiles said his antics would make the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorra sit up and take notice: I don’t want to know, really.

Bible-versions: Trivial to check what the authors of the new versions were, trivial to find an ordered list of changes made, etc. Yet Christians, to whom this topic should be of near-absolute interest... could hardly care less.

The Sunday Sabbath: Trivial to notice that the ‘defences’ for this nonsense are, well, nonsense. Yes, the Jews did indeed keep the right date; yes some cults do go for the Sat Sab – so what; yes, one of the actions of the spirit of the anti-Christ is to change dates and times. Yet, nobody gives a damn.
The above are TRIVIAL.

Just as trivial would be reading up about the Roman Catholic Church – CULT. Islam – Practical Satanism. New Age – Occult. Etc, etc. TRIVIAL, one and all.

Less trivial would be, just one example, the whole false Holy-Spirit thing – in the midst of the ‘Spirit’ in the churches simply ask Him if it is of Him, and He’ll show you: barring that you have ticked Him off to the point where He won’t.
Now, dividing between the false (devils, in case you missed the implication somehow) and the true is CRITICAL. Yet, nobody cares: at ‘best’ the baby gets tossed out with the bath-water.

Shall the utter poo that is the 'Isaiah judgement' even be mentioned?

On a more mundane note:
The basic concept that, no matter what you call it, socialism-fascism-communism, is at its core above central planning. Trivial.
That something like fractional-baking is fraud, pure and simple. Trivial.

And you wonder why nobody cares? Really?

Here is your problem: about 1-in-20 people are strongly sociopathic (as per the old def, the moral disease). About 1-in-3 people are strongly susceptible to them (the hippies, the dems, etc). This is a guess, but about 2-in-3 people pretend to care about things like truth, correctness, etc – but their dominating concern is keeping the boat un-rocked – these are all the ‘good’ people.
Maybe 1-in-15 (or less) people could-would, with some prodding, be willing to change some given present conception FOR A BETTER ONE, BECAUSE it is better. Are you up to (effectually) chipping away at the dross (WND, not here)? Who are you doing what for?

Then. What are you aiming at, and how are the blades of your knives shaped?

-CB

Anonymous Anonymous July 17, 2012 12:25 AM  

I never post a comment on an Economics web column. In fact I am trying to avoid the temptation of posting a comment to anything. I am always afraid someone will track one of my dumbass opinions to me long after I have changed my mind.

I will say I never read WND anymore because the site design is so horrible. I go look up Voc, Buchanan and Ann Coulter on their own web sites instead so I don't have to endure the little headline changing.

Anonymous bob k. mando July 17, 2012 12:26 AM  

VD July 16, 2012 6:03 PM
I feel like Jonah staring at the walls of Nineveh, stomping up and down the beach, gesticulating wildly and saying: "Go ahead and do it, Lord, let them have it, you know they deserve it!"



the problem with your analogy being, of course, that JONAH WAS WRONG.

not that Nineveh was good. no they aren't, but then even Israel is deserving of destruction. if the chosen of God are not worthy, who then is?

Jonah was wrong because the men of Nineveh were willing to REPENT. how many years have i been pointing out now that this ( the Nineveh option ) is the only hope for the United States?

were you trying to get me to reiterate that point again?



Wheeler
that shovel i was talking about; it's got a Nupla handle but it's assembled by Foxy Manufacturing of Missouri. the Nupla rep was quite confused by this for several days before he figured out what was going on. model #7312
http://www.foxymfg.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=418



zen0 July 16, 2012 8:05 PM
Oh, wait. I meant Obama more badder. It is hard to get this thing down.


Obama, Weak in a Strong Way.

Romney, Weak in a Weak Way.







Shild July 16, 2012 8:08 PM
This is because economics is amoral; it describes what people do, not what they should do.



let me guess; you've never listened to a Keynsian discuss the 'moral good' of government deficit spending?

Anonymous the bandit July 17, 2012 12:50 AM  

Echoing these comments:

"I would guess a lot of that has to do with not having the knowledge or the understanding to make worthwhile comments. I come here to learn, but I don't understand enough about the economic posts to even generate any type of decent comment on those threads. It would be foolish of me to even try."

"I don't know if it makes you feel any better, but I actually printed out your column today and highlighted your Economics reading list. I suppose I have now revealed myself as a true Philistine for admitting I am unfamiliar with most (but not all) of the books you listed."

The result of your column is that, when I start my economics journey, it will probably be with Keen's book.

Maybe, just maybe, there are readers like us at WND behaving the same way. Six, even seven of them!

Anonymous Noah B. July 17, 2012 12:56 AM  

As many others have stated, I comment here often now but almost never do on WND, even though I've been reading both your blog and WND for about 13 years. It's only much more recently that I began reading the comments on your blog, and I was surprised at the level of discourse here, being used to sites like Wired or MarketWatch (which had wonderful comments but was heavily censored). WND just doesn't seem "comment friendly," although I'm not quite sure how I would define that term to a web designer. I haven't given this a great deal of thought, so this is kind of off-the-cuff, but your blog makes it very easy to write comments, whereas I seem to recall that WND requires a login. Probably more importantly, your writing style also tends to elicit comments. You pose very direct challenges to those who disagree with you, and your typically logical approach to problems is refreshing. The blog also tolerates a wide range of perspectives and does not delete comments simply based on ideological differences. It's not quite as open as 4chan, but the quality of comments is definitely a step up.

Tangentially, WND and most of the alternative right media have a gigantic problem with doing business with unscrupulous advertisers, and by doing that, they cultivate a poor image of themselves among their own audience. I have difficulty controlling my laughter after hearing Sean Hannity railing against Obamacare and, literally seconds later, an HHS public service ad extolling the Patient Affordable Care and Protection Act is playing on the local affiliate. More run-of-the-mill advertisers include companies like Lifelock, Carbonite, Goldline, etc.

Regarding the impending/ongoing economic meltdown, keep in mind that central banks and governments have used all means available to them to keep the masses complacent. They do so at great expense and great peril, because the resulting disaster is going to be far worse than it would have been without government intervention. Recognize that, for those who understand the true nature of the problem, central banks and governments are giving us valuable time to prepare. Use this time well!

For me, this blog has provided a wealth of information and influenced me a great deal. After studying introductory economics in college, I was left with a feeling that economics was a critical discipline, but much of what I had learned simply did not make sense. There were just too many contradictions for it to make sense. Common sense told me that ever increasing societal debt was a huge problem, and for years I searched for reliable information and for sound explanations of macroeconomics. I have found much of that here.

Anonymous Biff the Understudy July 17, 2012 12:58 AM  

Have mercy on mesa!

Anonymous brentg July 17, 2012 12:59 AM  

Obama has electrolytes!

Anonymous Roundtine July 17, 2012 1:37 AM  

Vox,

You need to troll WND. Write a column about how Obama is great for America. I'm quite sure you can do it in great Swiftian fashion and open a few eyes.

It would also get way more hits.

Anonymous jerry July 17, 2012 1:38 AM  

Unaware of what year it was, Joe wandered the streets desperate for help. But the English language had deteriorated into a hybrid of hillbilly, valleygirl, inner-city slang and various grunts. Joe was able to understand them, but when he spoke in an ordinary voice he sounded pompous and faggy to them.

Anonymous Save us Captain Underoos. You're our only hope. July 17, 2012 2:01 AM  

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

H. L. Mencken

Anonymous scoobius dubious July 17, 2012 2:31 AM  

Here's a question, for Vox in particular, but also for anyone who'd like to weigh in on it.

Let's say, for simplicity's sake, that any major economic crisis has three basic causes, in varying combinations of influence: a) mistakes in government and central bank policy, b) the vast impersonal tidal forces of labor and capital sloshing back and forth in huge numbers, and c) the active machinations, both competent and otherwise, of elites (as distinct from government itself).

How would you apportion the influence of those factors in the present crisis situation? How does it compare, percentage-wise, to famous economic crises of the past (let's say the Great Depression and the 1970s "malaise" Carter-era recession)?

Anonymous tabasco July 17, 2012 2:41 AM  

regardless of whatever,(including my drunken azz) You must go on,"Damn the Topetors"!

Anonymous JT July 17, 2012 3:06 AM  

Have you been reading my mind VD?

Anonymous VryeDenker July 17, 2012 3:57 AM  

Have you considered/tried writing for mises.org?

Anonymous Roundtine July 17, 2012 5:35 AM  

How would you apportion the influence of those factors in the present crisis situation?

I think the largest factor may in fact by natural cycles in human behavior and mood. Socionomics probably makes the best case, but Kondratieff and other cycles are all describing a similar cycle. The Chinese have the saying "wealth does not pass the third generation." Eventually, people screw up, especially if good policy makes life easy. In the case of financial bubbles, the blame is always on credit/money creation, but the people want it.

Historically, agriculture was the largest industry and there were always crises when there were cyclical weather changes. There used to be panics every 10 to 20 years. The proximate cause then is finance and economic theory, which gave the people want they wanted: no pain. Every crisis since the early 1980s was bailed out, the "Great Moderation" was an exercise in sweeping every problem under the rug. Now the bill is due. Since the public votes out politicians who are in office during recessions, the ultimate blame must be placed on the voters, which is fitting since social mood is probably the ultimate cause.

Every similar crisis in history has roots in money printing and credit creation. This crisis is larger than any in history in part because it is global and total: the entire economic system is riddled with finance. With just-in-time inventory and the use of credit to buy goods, the entire global economy would shut down if the financial system broke down.

Anonymous Speaker July 17, 2012 5:54 AM  

Obama (or Soetoro): The very end of America?
By Dox Vay

This year we stand in front of the most important election in the history of America. Never before has a president preceded over such a radical change of our country as we know it. He even said to the Russian president Medvedev that if he got elected he could implement even more of his radical agenda! Can we have a president who sells us out to the Russians?

Our options are simple; vote him out or perish. It is true that our guy (Romney) comes of as less hip than Obama, but only spoiled leftist kids want a hip president. Romney is a strong, diligent businessman who has built his own success in the free-market! He would never accept handouts or all the crazy regulations of Obamacare! Remember that he was the governor of Taxachussets (heh) with the most radical, leftist and anti-american population in our union. He didn't have a choice. And now is not the time for inner divide in the conservative movement. Join or die, Obama got to go!

Blogger LP 999/Eliza July 17, 2012 6:41 AM  

I had a similar reaction in recent weeks to certain op-eds and the comment threads.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza July 17, 2012 6:43 AM  

It seems like the basics of economics, the rise and fall of societies are just lost on too many people.

Then they cry and complain in their self-induced plight.

I try to keep my empathy but it is increasingly difficult to do so.

Anonymous Makaro July 17, 2012 7:00 AM  

dont feel bad Vox just imagine how God feels every prophet only appeals to the few the chosen

Anonymous bob k. mando July 17, 2012 7:29 AM  

scoobius dubious July 17, 2012 2:31 AM
How would you apportion the influence of those factors in the present crisis situation?



so long as the GDP metric violates Thermodynamics there is NO hope for fiscal policy over the long term. as constructed, the GDP metric has no upper bound or resistance to both deficit spending and .gov spending in proportion to the private economy.

there has been plenty of malfeasance on the part of the central banks ( monetary policy ) and private industry ( big banks ) in this situation but those really only effect the specific timing of the crisis, not whether the crisis was going to occur or not.

Anonymous physics geek July 17, 2012 8:02 AM  

Seriously, I'm not sure I can deal with trying to pretend I don't think a world where the best-selling novel is Twilight fan fiction deserves to perish in fire and ice.

There are days when I think that humanity is beyond redemption and that a giant cleansing asteroid would be a good thing. Those are my optimistic days.

Anonymous Wayne July 17, 2012 8:21 AM  

Vox wrote: I find myself contemplating quitting. ...it is really incredible to see how few people at WND are interested in substantive matters...

You're not cynical enough, Vox, and your scope of "most" in MPAI isn't broad enough.

Blogger republicanmother July 17, 2012 8:23 AM  

I feel your pain, Vox. At my little blog, I was accused of being an Obama operative for not dressing him down as you are planning. I figured that Obama's record was well-known and by now everyone has come to their own conclusion, so why write about it? I find that it doesn't take much to go over people's heads, and when you put out what you think is great info, all you hear are the crickets.

After my daughter (13) spent some time with public schoolers at VBS this week, she told me coming home that our country is doomed.

Anonymous fred July 17, 2012 8:35 AM  

I am one who watches your blog explicitly for the economic content. I have only rarely commented but that isn't for lack of reading. Of course, one must first have a comment to make, but more importantly, one must feel "tall enough" to be making comments. You have many readers. There are generally lesser numbers of comments on econ related posts. While it could be that a lot don't care it could also be that they are learning.

Anonymous Papapete July 17, 2012 8:51 AM  

Hey Nate, you coming through Kansas?

Blogger Nate July 17, 2012 8:56 AM  

"Hey Nate, you coming through Kansas?"

We are trying to avoid it as much as possible... but I don't see anyway around it. No offense... but for riding... Kansas sucks... though not as bad as oklahoma sucks. we're always up for meetin' the Ilk though.

Anonymous Samuel Scott July 17, 2012 9:09 AM  

Vox has touched upon the bane of every good writer and journalist. There's a reason journalism school back in the day taught us to write at a eighth- or sixth-grade level (depending on whom you ask). You sell more newspapers that way.

Sigh.

Still, I'm sure the best non-fiction books and writings of each age were never massively popular at the time. Fame often comes to writers after they are dead.

Anonymous Papapete July 17, 2012 9:10 AM  

My reason for not commenting on economics columns is simply that I don't have a what I consider a sound theory underpinning my understanding. Needless to say, what I learned in Econ 101 & 102 in college is pretty much useless. I flirted with the Chicago school in the 80s but subsequently realised its failure. I've looked at some of the Austrian school, but my (nonrigorous) analysis is that it is also flawed to a significant extent.

I feel like an alchemist. I want the truth, but any correct results are mere chance.

Anonymous john July 17, 2012 9:13 AM  

Ok ask the rubes for comments then we will give you comments.

Correct me if I am wrong. Didn't R. A. Heinlein predict an economic collapse and re organization because taken as a whole only a fraction of mankind is really needed to provide for the rest? If that is the case then unemployment is inevitiable, and if the unemployment need not be fed the so is disaster. Then if the unemployed need not be fed the farmers and factory labor have no market.

So he invented this scheme of destroying industrial output, and, I think, capital from time to time. And mankind became a frittering species of bad poets and worse artists.

Anonymous Papapete July 17, 2012 9:15 AM  

Nate, if you're coming through Kansas City, be sure and hit either Gates & Sons, Smoking Guns, or Fiorella's Jack Stacks for BBQ. If you come through Wichita let me know. I'll be up for a little pow-wow. Avoid Topeka like the plague.

Anonymous john July 17, 2012 9:27 AM  

not to say I agree with Heinlein. I think his scheme wont work. But its an interesting excercise.

Anonymous Orion July 17, 2012 9:43 AM  

Hey Vox, let's face it, as others have commented it is a tough sell. Same as any other subject that requires reflection on oneself, the world at large, the future and the past. The Ilk aren't representative of the main stream in the least, as the vast majority show signs of doing the reflection mentioned above (It may even be a membership requirement. I just can't find the rules link for it on the site). Most people have a very limited horizon of interests and it takes a significant event that effects them directly to temporarily focus beyond their normal range. The vast majority of them will immediately snap back to their limited scope, just with slightly different focus.
The veneer of civilization is thin over much of mankind (with the current deconstruction of culture, very thin). It is maintained by those who bother to reflect, expand their horizons, and have a vision for the future. That vision may be cloudy and imprecise, but having one makes all the difference.

Anonymous RC July 17, 2012 9:49 AM  

"We are trying to avoid it as much as possible... but I don't see anyway around it. No offense... but for riding... Kansas sucks... though not as bad as oklahoma sucks. we're always up for meetin' the Ilk though."

Agreed about Kansas. You could always head north and go through Nebraska. Oh, wait. Same problem. But it might be cooler. Hot and dry as I've ever seen it here in KS. On my ranch up in NW Missouri they started feeding hay two weeks ago, trying to keep the cattle from killing the grass. Nuts.

If the Ilk has a meetup in KC I would drop in.

Anonymous szook July 17, 2012 9:59 AM  

Vox, dude,

Your a self professed and clearly evidenced contrarian. At least we know, now, that you are also quite merely human.....with or without the uploaded super intellect.

So lets have a little group hug and do some meditative therapy....repeat after me now:

Hates iiiiiittttt...wwweeeee.....Haaaaates iiiittttt!

Anonymous RedJack July 17, 2012 10:17 AM  

I follow, and sometimes comment, on the econ posts. But the question I ask is, what can I do? I can try to prepare my family for what might happen. I can talk to others to help them, but most people don't want to prepare. They think that talking about bad things that are coming will in fact bring the bad things.

People are creatures of habit. We all are. We all have a routine that we follow. Breaking that routine is hard, and often painful. Few will do so. They would rather be numb until the final knife than try to stop that knife. Even close family members tell me "You're right, but I don't want to think about it."


It has always been so. Ciciero warned of the fall of the Republic, and the terror that was coming. He did so, knowing it was to late to change many, but we hold him up as a great man. Jerimiah warned of what was coming, knowing that it wasn't going to change people. The watchman's job is to warn. He can't save the city if no one reacts.

Anonymous Mark July 17, 2012 10:17 AM  

Chin up, man. Econ in general is unintelligible to 90% of the world and is boring as hell to 9.99% of the remainder. Your article speaks to potential profound changes to economic *theory*, so the gravity of your article is lost to all but the smallest section of the readership.

I suspect your article would have garnered more commentary if it was published in an economics magazine or forum instead of WND.

Blogger ashepherd July 17, 2012 10:24 AM  

I think it was the founder of Navigators that said something like most people think they're thinking when they are just rearranging their prejudices. If people in the US really thought, we have more substantial change in many areas of life but they aren't trained to think in terms of fundamental principles - and the government reflects that very well.

Just a reminder - the reason paradigm shifts are so difficult is that the old one has so much momentum. People have too much already invested in the old paradigm, things like money, institutions, pride, careers etc. to change. I can't help but think that's why human history is so full of cataclysms.

On another note, I find many of the WND columnists to be thinkers who help challenge the prevailing paradigms, but the new site design has the feel of a sensationalist tabloid. IMO they don't fit together very well.

Anonymous MendoScot July 17, 2012 10:34 AM  

I (mostly) don't post on the econ threads since I don't think most people are intrested in the situation in Argentina, except in a WTF? sort of way. I read them all, tho'.

Now, customized pathogens - there's a subject dear to my heart. Odd as it seems, there might even be a way of targeting Keynesians. Not that I would do it, of course. But you should wash your hands after meeting one. Just to be safe.

Blogger Desert Cat July 17, 2012 10:55 AM  

fred July 17, 2012 8:35 AM
I am one who watches your blog explicitly for the economic content. I have only rarely commented but that isn't for lack of reading. Of course, one must first have a comment to make, but more importantly, one must feel "tall enough" to be making comments. You have many readers. There are generally lesser numbers of comments on econ related posts. While it could be that a lot don't care it could also be that they are learning.


I could just "ditto" this and be largely accurate. Your economic views is a big part of why I am here. I can't pretend to know enough to comment on the specifics.

But more to the point, it was a book review. How many people are going to have much to say unless they have read the book themselves? Yes, it could be revolutionary. Yes, Keen's work may someday overshadow Wealth of Nations. And what should people say? Those that take your words to heart probably are going to buy the book now. Some may await your further explication of the details of this or that aspect of his perspective. Most are not going to burst forth the floodgates of vigorous discourse until they learn more.

Blogger Nate July 17, 2012 11:05 AM  

"Nate, if you're coming through Kansas City, be sure and hit either Gates & Sons, Smoking Guns, or Fiorella's Jack Stacks for BBQ. If you come through Wichita let me know. I'll be up for a little pow-wow. Avoid Topeka like the plague."

Thanks PapaPete. I will definitely keep those places in mind. and we'll give ya a holler if we're nearby.

Blogger RobertT July 17, 2012 11:49 AM  

The only reason I even go to WND is to read your column. I respect some of the other columnists, like Buchanan, but I find their writing stodgy and boring. And really, after you read a couple of their columns, nothing they write ever surprises you.

However, I would caution you about expecting too much of the masses. That's always a mistake. Write for your own amusement. Be as bombastic as you please. I recently did this with an advertising campaign I'm running on line. I was getting little response, so where before I was pulling my shots, I began just letting fly. My results aren't any better, but I'm happier. And since it's basically name recognition, everything's ok.

Blogger RobertT July 17, 2012 12:01 PM  

The only reason I even go to WND is to read your column. I respect some of the other columnists, like Buchanan, but I find their writing stodgy and boring. And really, after you read a couple of their columns, nothing they write ever surprises you.

However, I would caution you about expecting too much of the masses. That's always a mistake. Write for your own amusement. Be as bombastic as you please. I recently did this with an advertising campaign I'm running on line. I was getting little response, so where before I was pulling my shots, I began just letting fly. My results aren't any better, but I'm happier. And since it's basically name recognition, everything's ok.

Anonymous Paul Sacramento July 17, 2012 1:04 PM  

You thought Twilight was bad being on the bestseller?
50 Shades of Grey.
Enough said, LOL !

Anonymous Josh July 17, 2012 1:53 PM  

Um...Paul...he was referring to fifty shades of gray...

Blogger Holden July 17, 2012 3:19 PM  

Well, since you're angry, don't forget the advice of Job's wife, if that doesn't work for you then remember God's final words to Job. We never have the full picture.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch July 17, 2012 4:11 PM  

Oooo. Just thought of something else to say.

Basically, the world does not want to be saved. Basically, the world is committing suicide. And the world, collectively, has become Judas Iscariot.

I wish my kids didn't have to deal with all this.

Anonymous Anonymous July 17, 2012 7:46 PM  

I ditto some here, I came here to learn about economic matters, and was introduced to Vox via WND. Recently, I have read less and less on the net in general and Vox in particular: just out of tiredness of seeing in real time how perverse and sad and corrupt our world has become and because the more I learn the more it seems noone, and I mean noone, has the answer to our problems or economics. Heck there may not be a good answer since it deals with sinful, perverse, corrupt, gullible, fallible human beings. There may be (must be) some answers that are infinitely more correct than others but I have watched for years as one pundit and then another opined abut the sad state of affairs and imminenet collapse or how since x occured y must happen. Yet,here we are and TPTB seem to have the upper hand in manipulating and distorting the real world. So every theory is in a real world sense wrong, because TPTB can keep the charade going because they control the levers of power, communication, education etc. ANd I am not smart enough or economically literate enough and often not interested enough to piece it all together into a neat little package to make it make sense. And I can add nothing to meaningful discussion in this area - or any area for that matter. But if you want to continue to write there will be those like me who are just trying to get some semblence of information on economics. And for that thanks are in order.

alabamarob

Blogger rcocean July 17, 2012 10:11 PM  

Vox please do it. Write the dumbest anti-Obama column and let's see what happens, it would be a hoot. I don't think many ConservaDumbs would even know it was a parody.

Blogger rcocean July 17, 2012 10:16 PM  

The problem with WND is a subset of what's wrong with conservative movement. The Neo-cons more or less control everything, so all you're left with is a moronic Sean Hannity-ism on one-hand and out-of-touch Tory George Willism on the other. Every conservative position except cutting taxes and bombing anyone who doesn't love Israel had been diminished or abandoned.

Blogger Peter Garstig July 18, 2012 4:34 AM  

I always felt a little dichotomy in Vox's view. On the one hand, he correctly states MPAI, on the other hand he lately tended to support the idea of democracy (maybe not in the form that is established in the states, but more like Swiss-like direct democracy).

I feel a searching soul here, and that's exactly the reason I like this blog so much. Vox is sure about alot of things, but he's never dogmatic and changes his views if strong arguments oppose existing ones. There is nothing more inspiring and adventurous to follow such a truth seeking soul who is open to share this process with anyone. And even though he states that he's writing this blog mainly for his amusement, I think that a much bigger drive is the reason for it.

Vox can stop his writings and this blog and he would not be missed by the masses. But for a few select people, he would leave an immense void and they would loose a great inspiration.

Schumpeter, Mises, Rothbard and the like didn't write for the masses. Heck, most people don't even know their names. But their legacy is huge. On day, the same can be said of Vox.

Anonymous Anonymous July 18, 2012 3:02 PM  

Vox, don't get discouraged about your econ writing. I find the subject on the intimidating side for commenting, but I do read everything you write. Very common sense stuff.

The comment feedback may not be large, but that doesn't mean we aren't paying attention.

Susan

Blogger Res Ipsa July 18, 2012 3:21 PM  

Nate,

Sorry I just checked back in. Give me a call. I'm heading to Big Timber for a couple of days this week with the wife and kids.

Blogger Bryan Banz July 18, 2012 5:59 PM  

Hey Nate, when are you guys heading West? I live in NE KS and would love to hook up if you're coming through. I'm currently in NW Colorado taking in the Rockies though so I don't know if the timing will work.

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