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Tuesday, July 24, 2012

Intergenerational dynamics

I've been having a little email debate with John Xenakis, who I suspect has somewhat misapplied his own Generational Dynamics theory to the financial crisis as a result of Boomer idealism failing to grasp the full extent of Gen-X cynicism. His interpretation is as follows:

"The evidence is overwhelming that Gen-Xers were the perpetrators of the crimes related to the financial crisis simply because it was only the Gen-X financial engineers who had the education and skills to create fraudulent residential mortgage backed collaterized debt obligations (RMB CDOs). And the evidence is overwhelming that they created and sold these fraudulent synthetic securities knowing full well that they were fraudulent. And the evidence is overwhelming that their Boomer bosses knew what was going on, but let it go on because they were making too much money. I've written about this evidence dozens of times."

Now, in support of this interpretation, here is the question that he has asked of his Gen-X interlocutors:

1. "Jon Corzine should go to jail, and any Gen-Xers reporting to Corzine who committed fraud or who participated in co-mingling investor funds illegally should also go to jail. Do you agree with that or not?"

To which I will add three more questions.

2. To what generational cohort do you belong: Greatest, Silent, Boomer, Gen-X, Millennial?

3. Do you believe there is any chance, however remote, of an investigation that will dig into the organizations, find all the perpetrators, and send them all to jail, including Corzine?

4. It is the members of the _______ generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to the financial crisis.

Answers in the comments, please. I'll tabulate and send the results to John later. I'll have some more on the exchange between the two of us in a future post, which I suspect a few of you here may find interesting. I do find his theories to be remarkable, inasmuch as it is almost creepy to listen to the original Down to the Ground and see how some of his themes are readily apparent in lyrics written 15 years before I first encountered his theories.

Labels:

124 Comments:

Anonymous Daniel July 24, 2012 3:58 AM  

1. "Jon Corzine should go to jail, and any Gen-Xers reporting to Corzine who committed fraud or who participated in co-mingling investor funds illegally should also go to jail. Do you agree with that or not?"

Agree.


2. To what generational cohort do you belong: Silent, Boomer, Gen-X, Millennial?

x

3. Do you believe an investigation that will dig into the
organizations, find all the perpetrators, and send them all to jail, including Corzine, is theoretically possible?

yes

4. It is the members of the _______ generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to the financial crisis.

boomer

Anonymous Johnny Caustic July 24, 2012 4:08 AM  

1. Yes. All of them. "Stop the looting and start the prosecuting."
2. Gen-X.
3. I think I don't understand what "theoretically possible" means. Yes, it's theoretically possible, but there's absolutely positively no way it will happen in the real world.
4. Tough call. The Boomers are essentially in charge, and ought to be considered responsible. I'm open to Xenakis' claim that Gen-Xers did most of the dirty work, but I'm not in a position to know.

Blogger Shimshon July 24, 2012 4:20 AM  

1. yes (Is there anyone, regardless of which generation they belong to, who would actually say "no" to this? Why does he think this is such an illuminating question?)

2. x (1966, leading edge)

3. Yes, it's "possible." But the cynic in me (along with years of observation) tells me it won't happen.

4. In terms of changing the zeitgeist and enabling the systemic fraud, I don't think anyone doubts the boomers' culpability. In terms of those who are actually culpable, I think it crosses generations and is comprised mostly of boomers and x's, maybe with a few older millienials thrown in.

Anonymous VryeDenker July 24, 2012 4:35 AM  

1. Yes.
2. Millennial.
3. Yes. Theories are not constrained by logistics.
4. Boomers are responsible by virtue of them being in charge. Mao Zedong never personally pulled a trigger, yet he is responsible for millions of deaths.

Anonymous B July 24, 2012 4:40 AM  

1. Of course. WTF does what generation have to do with prosecuting the biggest criminals in US history. Crime is crime.

2. Speaking in terms of generations always appears retarded to me. I was born in 1986 if that'll help

3. What a dumb question. Its theoretically possible to do a lot of things but this will never happen. The same people in charge of the prosecuting are in the pockets of those very criminals.

4. This predates the baby boomers. Go and look up the bildeberg group and the banking families. A bunch of bastards did their best to destroy the economy and greedy people from every generation jumped into help so long as they received a cut.

Anonymous Xer July 24, 2012 4:56 AM  

ARRRGGHHH!!! What a fucking MORON!!! I mean Boomer.

Blogger Vox July 24, 2012 4:56 AM  

I should have known better than to use colloquial English here. I changed "theoretically possible" in question 3 to "any chance, however remote".

Blogger sconzey July 24, 2012 5:06 AM  

1. Agree.
2. Millennial (1987)
3. This could happen, should happen, but it will not happen. Under the most plausible circumstances in which it would happen, it would be less 'Levenson Enquiry' and more 'Committee of Public Safety'
4. Boomers.

Anonymous Xer July 24, 2012 5:11 AM  

ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!

1. Why do you even have to ask? Because you're a fucking idiot ie... a boomer.

2. The Broken Letter generation you boomer fuck. Not you Vox.

3. Not as long as boomer idiots are involved, see question #1 for an example.

4. Boomers bar none. Who has been and still is in the majority of the leadership positions at banks,academia, the press, corporations and last but not least government? Boomer fucks that's who.

Anonymous TheExpat July 24, 2012 5:27 AM  

1. Yes - All knowingly involved should be punished in accordance with: a) degree of authority/responsibility of position b) degree of actual involvement, and c) degree of profit from said illegal actions.
2. Gen-X
3. No - Reading "any chance, however remote" as "do I think there is any realistic chance whatsoever that there will be anything more than a token investigation with a few sacrificial lambs thrown to the wolves?" Oh, hell no.
4. Boomers - But of course, NABALT.

Blogger Wes July 24, 2012 5:33 AM  

1. Agree.

2. X

3. As much chance as there is of Ed McMahon showing up at my door with a gigantic check.

4. Boomers

Anonymous William Leonard July 24, 2012 5:46 AM  

Agreed Corzine needs to go to jail. The same for Jamie Dimon. Gee, let's add the following as well:

Henry M. Paulson, Jr., Secretary, Robert M. Kimmitt, Deputy Secretary, and James R. Wilkinson, Chief of Staff, United States Treasury Department; Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, Alberto R. Gonzales, Attorney General, and the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond.

Let's go for George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, George H.W. Bush, William Jefferson Clinton, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Anyone else?

You want to talk about financial fraud?

Ever hear of Black Eagle Trust and Project Hammer?

Let's start with Marilyn MacGruder Barnewall.

Listen to part 1 and 2.

Then devour the entire website.

Pay special attention to David M. Dastych, former Polish intelligence.

You think you know about financial fraud? You know nothing, sans being informed of the aforementioned.

The fault of _____ Gen? Jeez! This goes back to 1907 and JPM. Alas, we can go back to Hamilton and Robert Morris if we like.

Dastych has reported that an "invisible hand" is/was involved. Lafayette et al informed us of just what/who is this invisible hand. Remember we are talking trillions here (with a capital T)...

Anonymous A99 July 24, 2012 5:51 AM  

1.  Absolutely agree

2. Gen-X

3. No 

4. Given that most current CEOs and political leaders are boomers I believe the primary blame falls on them as they created the incentive system that led to this result. 

Blogger Peter Garstig July 24, 2012 5:56 AM  

1) Yes, of course

2) x

3) yes possible, but not for all the guilty

4) great generation and boomers, with the x'ers giving a lending hand. but we should not confuse this with the fact that individuals committed the crimes.

Anonymous Weak July 24, 2012 6:04 AM  

Yes
X
No, don't be naive
Boomers, and they lapped the field

Blogger Shimshon July 24, 2012 6:16 AM  

Several people have (correctly) pointed out that this pre-dates boomers. I don't know if heads rolled in any of the well-known panics of 19th century America, but even if the means were different, the crimes were similar, and financial panics were a pretty regular occurrence. Maybe the boomer generation is different in how uniquely self-absorbed they are.

Anonymous hoosiertoo July 24, 2012 6:20 AM  

1. Agree. Regardless of accident of birth

2. 1959. I don't hold with generation identity. Assholes are assholes whatever their date of birth.

3. All? As if...

4. It is the individuals of every generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to financial crises going back thousands of years. The guys in charge when the hammer falls are the ones who are holding the bag, which would seem to be "boomers" and more than a few "Xers." Given a little more time, the children of millenials will be pointing their fingers at their aperm donors.

Assuming they understand basic biology by then.

Anonymous Rantor July 24, 2012 6:24 AM  

Yes
Borderline Boomer/X
No
Boomers

Blogger rumpole5 July 24, 2012 6:24 AM  

1. Lock them all up!
2. Boomer.
3. Yes. When we hit the wall it may rival the French revolution.
4. The generation born around 1900 is to blame (Anyone heard of the Warren court?) They removed Christ as the foundation of Western culture. We are their common heirs.

Blogger Dan Hewitt July 24, 2012 6:28 AM  

1. Yes.
2. X.
3. No.
4. Probably the Boomers, as I would guess that most in charge belong to that generation.

Anonymous Rosalys July 24, 2012 6:32 AM  

1. YES!
2. Boomer
3. Very remote possibility - but then as a Christian I am open to the possibility of miracles!
4. Greatest (my Dad who was a member of that generation always said it was his generation that voted in all this sh-t) began it. The Silents were, well, silent, (silence gives consent). We boomers doubled down. The Xers went with the flow. And the Millennials are left looking around asking, "Wha happened?"

Anonymous Josh July 24, 2012 6:33 AM  

1. Agree
2. Millennial
3. No
We can't even get a damn audit of the fed, and people still think that there's going to be a magic unicorn investigation of all the financial crimes?
4. Boomers

Anonymous Anonymous July 24, 2012 6:37 AM  

Yes
1963
No
Boers


N5

Anonymous Anonymous July 24, 2012 6:52 AM  

Why do you think a "poll" of readers has any meaning at all beyond the prejudices of those answering the poll?

Would it not be better to present fact and reasoned arguments?

This sort of muddled thinking is a failing of both generations.

Blogger IM2L844 July 24, 2012 7:01 AM  

Yes
Boomer-Jones
No
Silent (Greenspan & contemporaries) through Boomer (Phil Gramm, Barney Frank et al)

Generational Dynamics is an interesting label. What causes any particular generation to collectively exhibit behaviors that are apparently intrinsic to that generation? It must be due to shared common environmental pressures that were already in place during their critical formative years (2 to 12). Entire generations do not develop certain common traits in spite of their environment, but because of it. That raises the question of who is responsible for providing that environment.

That's partially what makes these generation war topics absurd on their face.

Anonymous Faust July 24, 2012 7:06 AM  

1. "Jon Corzine should go to jail, and any Gen-Xers reporting to Corzine who committed fraud or who participated in co-mingling investor funds illegally should also go to jail. Do you agree with that or not?"
Yes.

2. To what generational cohort do you belong: Greatest, Silent, Boomer, Gen-X, Millennial?
Millennial.
3. Do you believe there is any chance, however remote, of an investigation that will dig into the organizations, find all the perpetrators, and send them all to jail, including Corzine?
No.
4. It is the members of the _______ generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to the financial crisis.
Boomer.

Anonymous Roundtine July 24, 2012 7:09 AM  

1. Yes
2. X
3. Yes
4. Boomer

Anonymous Anonymous July 24, 2012 7:11 AM  

1. yes

2. tail end of the boomers

3. no

4. boomer

farmer Tom

Anonymous Craig July 24, 2012 7:13 AM  

1. Yes
2. Boomer (born in 1955)
3. No
4. Greatest, due to circumstances mostly beyond their control - The greatest generation went through the depression and WWII. An entire generation of fathers was absent during their children's formative years (some never coming back, and the rest coming back permanently changed). These greatest generation members decided due to the depression that "my children will hever want for anything" and due to WWII that "my children will never have to fight for anything". Thus they raised the spoiled boomer generation aand the boomers (myself included) wasted the legacy and threw away ethics and morality.

Anonymous VD July 24, 2012 7:15 AM  

Would it not be better to present fact and reasoned arguments?

No. For the obvious reason that the question concerns what people think. Actually asking them what they think is much more valid than presenting "fact and reasoned arguments" about what they think. It is actually an attempt to gather the relevant facts to which the reasoned arguments can be compared.

This sort of muddled thinking is a failing of both generations.

You're a moron.

Anonymous Bob Ramar July 24, 2012 7:15 AM  

1. Yes

2. Boomer

3. No

4. It is the members of the Boomer generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to the financial crisis.

Anonymous Roundtine July 24, 2012 7:18 AM  

My own take is that the prosecutions haven't come because the fraud is so systematic. However, social mood hasn't reached its nadir, when it does, there will be prosecutions.

GenX created the algorithms and financial models based on Boomer and Greatest theories. It is only post crisis that it is fashionable to debunk the theories behind the algorithms, to take apart neo-classical economics, CAPM, Black-Scholes, etc. Boomers were in a position to do something about it though. They created the incentive and bonus structure that favored making huge bucks fast, like a "hedge" fund, they let their firms be run by 25-30 year old gamblers.

Anonymous MECookCPA July 24, 2012 7:40 AM  

1. YES
2. Boomer
3. Not a chance
4. Boomers are responsible, even if Xer's created the schemes, the Boomers could have stopped it, they had the authority and therefore the responsibility.

Blogger Wyndie July 24, 2012 7:46 AM  

1. Yes
2. Boomer
3. No.
4. Boomers.

Blogger Aurini July 24, 2012 7:53 AM  

1. Crucify all the brutes.

2. Cusp (81) but the fact that I'm a divorce baby, I owned a library card, and I'm fuelled by cynicism and hate - X.

3. Prosecute them? If things get bad enough that a revolution starts to happen, these will be the soulless bastards the proles will put in charge.

4. I spent most of my twenties unlearning the BS fed to me by my elders; while that's no excuse for the evil perpetrated by some, the callowness of Gen X lies at the feet of the baby boomers. Is a *real* education really so much to ask for?

Anonymous anon123 July 24, 2012 7:53 AM  

WWBMD?
This is the question all Gen X,Y,Zers should be asking themselves. What would Bill Murray do?

Anonymous Wayne July 24, 2012 7:55 AM  

1. Yes
2. X
3. Theoretically possible, yes; but not a snowball's chance in hell of actually happening.
4. Boomers

Anonymous cherub's revenge July 24, 2012 8:01 AM  

1. Yes
2. X
3. No
4. Boomer

Blogger alexamenos July 24, 2012 8:10 AM  

1. Yep
2. X
3. Not a chance in hell
4. Boomer

Anonymous Salt July 24, 2012 8:11 AM  

2. To what generational cohort do you belong: Greatest, Silent, Boomer, Gen-X, Millennial?

3. Do you believe there is any chance, however remote, of an investigation that will dig into the organizations, find all the perpetrators, and send them all to jail, including Corzine?

4. It is the members of the _______ generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to the financial crisis.

1. Yes
2. Boomer
3. No
4. Boomer and Gen-X (takes 2 to tango?)

#4 is a two edge sword.

And the evidence is overwhelming that their [superior] bosses knew what was going on, but let it go on - witness Penn State

Anonymous Salt July 24, 2012 8:19 AM  

I realize Vox is looking for just one, so #4 is Gen-X. No Gen-X, no Boomer to look the other way.

Anonymous Fatso McGraw July 24, 2012 8:21 AM  

1. Agreed
2. Gen-X
3. No
4. Boomer

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler July 24, 2012 8:24 AM  

There is a big problem and anomaly in this half-way hypothetical.

The Racial Issue. See, the proposition is that all things are equal in the hypothesis.

The Overwhelming influence is not generational but Jewish. Furthermore, you, I, we all, really don't know what goes on in the backrooms. Some of the financial houses are operated by Jews. Why the Jews. They are the most materialistic of the races. There is no Transcendent values among the Jews. Their whole existence is about the Here and Now and in material wealth.

Furthermore, they have controlled the Media for the past 100 years and so have perpetrated materialistic beliefs.

Until you cipher out what is Racial and what is Generational--you can't perform this questionaire! I bet you 10-1 that Xenakis really doesn't care about Race nor even thinks that there are racial differences and that maybe, just maybe, the Jewish control of the media have judaized America so much that they have inculcated this love of money over and beyond Virtue over the past 100 years.

As I pointed out earlier in another thread, it is parents that teach values to their children. And when Parents stress going to college because one makes money, the highest value in America is about money and the making of it.

The purposeful shrinking of the Agrarian class and the exaltation of the business/mercantile class and their values is what media and the political establishment has done.

Of course Corzine should go to Jail.

Tail-end of Boomer.

NO. No one is going to jail.

For me it is RACIAL, All are responsible and since the Jews are the Aristocracy of America, and because the Aristocracy of any country always forms the culture, (For the High form the culture), the Jews have dictated and driven our culture that has formed all the generations!

Xenakis has to input the racial angle. If not, his study is useless.

Anonymous DAS July 24, 2012 8:34 AM  

1. Yes
2. X
3. No.
4. X

Anonymous Mike M. July 24, 2012 8:40 AM  

1. Yes
2. None of the above. Born in 1963, part of the Baby Bust decade group. The whole notion of a 20-year political generation is 100% wrong, it's closer to 10-12 years.
3. No
4. The Brat Boomers (born 1945-1955)

Blogger Hermit July 24, 2012 8:42 AM  

1. Yes
2. Borderline X/Millenial (1981)
3. No
4. Boomer

Anonymous Mark July 24, 2012 8:42 AM  

1. Yes

2. X

3. A slim chance of a scope-restricted investigation.

4. The buck stops with the Boomer bosses, but it may well have started with the Gen X minions.

Anonymous Rally July 24, 2012 8:43 AM  

1. Yes
2. Gen X
3. No chance that all perps are caught. I expect to see a few low ranking scapegoats get charged.
4. Tough call. All have guilty parties. I'll go with greatest generation, assuming that's what Greenspan is. It all starts with him.

Anonymous Athor Pel July 24, 2012 8:45 AM  

"1. "Jon Corzine should go to jail, and any Gen-Xers reporting to Corzine who committed fraud or who participated in co-mingling investor funds illegally should also go to jail. Do you agree with that or not?"

To which I will add three more questions.

2. To what generational cohort do you belong: Greatest, Silent, Boomer, Gen-X, Millennial?

3. Do you believe there is any chance, however remote, of an investigation that will dig into the organizations, find all the perpetrators, and send them all to jail, including Corzine?

4. It is the members of the _______ generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to the financial crisis.
"




Now for the answers.

1. Corzine and all involved should go to jail. This is not an indicator of cynicism but of attitude to the law.

2. I was born in 1965 so I'm the oldest of the Gen-X cohort.

3. There ain't a chance in hell of anyone involved with top level finance regardless of the crime going to jail unless they sinned against other top level financiers. This goes for anyone at the senior executive level of government and corporate management as well. Though it does depend on how well connected that person is, the more connections they have the more markers they have to call on.

4. I got no idea which generation is most responsible. But since guys my age and a few years younger are only just now gaining the highest level positions of authority and the financial systems that are now failing were instituted by Boomers or earlier generations then, yeah, you can see where this is going.

Anonymous tdm July 24, 2012 8:47 AM  

Yes
1942
No
X

Anonymous Pablo July 24, 2012 8:51 AM  

1. Agree
2. Gen-X
3. So unlikely that I must answer NO
4. Boomer

Anonymous scoobius dubious July 24, 2012 8:53 AM  

"Why do you think a "poll" of readers has any meaning at all beyond the prejudices of those answering the poll?"

Because then we will get some idea of what the considered prejudices of a cohort really are, and that will be interesting in and of itself. To paraphrase a great critic: it doesn't have to be meaningful, it just has to be interesting.

[Vox: "You're a moron." Ah c'mon, VD, you can do better than that! He threw ya a meatball, right over the plate! Get more entertaining with your rebukes!]

"The Overwhelming influence is not generational but Jewish."

This.

Boomers and Jews are most accountable, and especially Jewish Boomers (can we call them say Joomers or something? it's almost like a neutron star of narcissism!) because they created the entire narcissistic cultural matrix in which these things became possible, even perhaps inevitable. Gen-Xers by way of contrast simply struggled in the trap in which they were already caught, even if they were the bagmen (which is something I don't even know for sure). Nope, it's Boomers and Joomers who are jointly and severally culpable, even if they didn't work in the financial sector: they collectively made the bed in which the rest of us were forced to lie. Granted there is no physical legal court in this world, capable of bringing them to justice on the real score. So who knows, they'll probably just skate, and the rest of us will just have to eat it. For relief we will have to look to the providence of a righteous and rather unamused God, and the unending and much-deserved hatred of future generations of Americans.

That is, if there are any Americans left, which I am beginning to doubt.

Blogger Joshua_D July 24, 2012 8:54 AM  

1. Yes.

2. Gen-X.

3. No.

4. Boomer, but I'm open to the idea that a lot of Gen-Xers were involved. Jail them all.

Anonymous Vidad July 24, 2012 8:57 AM  

1. I don't believe in prisons. Execute them.

2. X

3. Not a chance.

4. Unsure. Wheeler's probably right, though.

Anonymous Zartan July 24, 2012 9:07 AM  

1. Yes

2. GenX

3. Not unless I can take a ski-trip to hades.

4. Boomer

Anonymous Musashi July 24, 2012 9:08 AM  

1. Yes.

2. Gen-X.

3. No.

4. Boomer. (punish all involved Boomer or otherwise)

Anonymous Stephen J. July 24, 2012 9:08 AM  

1. Yes

2. I don't know -- I was born in 1970, but I've never been sure which Generation Label that falls into; I've never felt old enough for the Boomers, but I've always felt too old for Gen X, and I've never heard the term "The Silent Generation" before so I don't know what it means or whether I identify with it.

3. Mathematically, yes, in that it cannot be zero. Realistically, I think it's likelier that everyone here wins a lottery simultaneously. However, enough effort might get at least *some* of the responsible perpetrators.

4. If "primarily responsible" means "committed the *largest* crimes in financial scope", the Boomers. If it means "committed the *most* crimes", in the sense of most frequently performing actions they suspected might be fraudulent, it might well be the Gen-Xers, in that there are always more people on the lower levels of any activity pyramid. If it means "committed the most originally causal crimes," the actions without which the rest of it couldn't have been done, then probably the Greatest.

Anonymous Josh July 24, 2012 9:11 AM  

Unsure. Wheeler's probably right, though.

Nazi!

Anonymous JCB July 24, 2012 9:17 AM  

1. All invloved, including Corzine should do time.

2. X

3. As long as the status quo holds, no. If the EBT cards stop working and Social Security checks stop cashing all bets are off, and the Rothschilds may hand over a few people like Corzine to try and satisfy the Jacobin bloodlust.

4. Boomer, but all played a part, human nature what it is.

Anonymous Fatso McGraw July 24, 2012 9:20 AM  

Stephen J wrote, "2. I don't know -- I was born in 1970, but I've never been sure which Generation Label that falls into; I've never felt old enough for the Boomers, but I've always felt too old for Gen X, and I've never heard the term "The Silent Generation" before so I don't know what it means or whether I identify with it."

You're Generation X, roughly defined as early 60's to 1980 birth dates. Part of being Gen-X is precisely not feeling part of a group. "The Silent Generation" was too young for WWII but generally too old for Vietnam, roughly defined as 1927 or so to 1945 birth dates.

Anonymous Orion July 24, 2012 9:23 AM  

1)All to prison.
2)Edge of Boomer/GenX
3)No
4)Boomers.

3 - I expect a glacier to form in the swamps of Florida first

4 - Only a few outlier GenXers were in the top level of management. The bulk were and still are Boomers... and this is a case of the fish rotting from the head down.

Anonymous III July 24, 2012 9:28 AM  

I see the Me generation speaks. Who, me?

Your feelings and ego will not allow it.

You are a reflection of your vote.

Anonymous RC July 24, 2012 9:30 AM  

Y
Boomer
N
Boomer

Anonymous Mob-Rules July 24, 2012 9:31 AM  

1. Yes

2. Millenial

3. I believe any honest investigation can find the root of the problem. So a yes from me.

4. I have to say it's a combination of Silent and Boomer. Silent's have the pride of the Greatest and the entitlement of the Boomers. Dick Cheney, Nancy Pelosi, John McCain, and Newt Gingrich belong to that generation. Boomers turned the scum baggery up to 11.

Anonymous Praetorian July 24, 2012 9:32 AM  

1. Agree. Everyone responsible for fraud should go.

2. Gen-X

3. I see no evidence that there is any chance whatsoever.

4. It is the members of the Boomer generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to the financial crisis, as the leaders an primary beneficiaries of the serial asset bubbles that (it must be remembered) began in the late 90's. It is their attitudes towards asset bubbles, debt and family that has laid before us this banquet of consequences.

This is not excuse the members of my generation, the douche bag bankers, realtors, flippers, etc. who participated in the fraud, often in crucial positions. But without the generational insanity of the boomers, I do not believe we could be where we are.

Anonymous Russell July 24, 2012 9:42 AM  

1. Yes.
2. Gen-X
3. Not a snowball's chance in hell. Why? The people in power are Boomers and will protect their racket at all costs.
4. Boomers.

Blogger Giraffe July 24, 2012 9:46 AM  

1. Yes
2. x
3. no. These guys have too much protection inside the administration(s)
4. Boomer, they had to know, and they were in the ultimate position of authority.

Anonymous paradox July 24, 2012 9:47 AM  

1. Empathic yes! To all the criminals.

2. Est.1977, could be counted as a late Gen-X or early Millennial.

3. With an investigation it's possible to find enough evidence on Corzine. What would really happen, all the evidence needed would be found, the crony capitalist government would destroy that evidence to save Corzine's arse. The corrupt government would then prosecute low level managers for a show trial.

4. The Boomer(some of what Wheeler said...)

Anonymous Wendy July 24, 2012 9:51 AM  

1. Agree
2. X
3. No, Hell will freeze over first. Possibly a few minor scapegoats will be handed over.
4. Boomers. They are primarily in the highest positions of enforcing laws and have failed. The committing of the crimes is doubtless multi-generational, but ultimately Boomers are still the CEO's and other officers who bear primary responsibility of how their companies are run.

Good luck quantifying all the answers.

Anonymous OK July 24, 2012 9:54 AM  

1. Yes
2. Boomer
3. None. They were working at the pleasure of the Bilderberg controllers.
4. Irrelevant question. It has been planned this way for decades.

This intergenerational bashing is a counterproductive distraction from the real issues similar to the republican/democrat side show distraction. There is just right and wrong whatever age the perp happens to be.

Anonymous Brendan July 24, 2012 9:54 AM  

1. Yes.

2. '67 first wave X.

3. No.

4. Boomers. Why? Because they were the ones who both devised and primarily benefited from the compensation/reward system that fueled the entire frenzy on Wall Street. The Xers were the middle managers, mostly, at the time -- not blameless, but not bearing most of the blame, and certainly not the lion's share of it like the leadership does.

Anonymous fred July 24, 2012 10:00 AM  

1) Yes except I'd modify the statement to 'and anyone of any generation reporting'.
2) boomer (57)
3) not a chance
4) Looks to me like it started with the greatest/silent and came to full fruition with the boomers.

Anonymous Orville July 24, 2012 10:00 AM  

1. "Jon Corzine should go to jail, and any Gen-Xers reporting to Corzine who committed fraud or who participated in co-mingling investor funds illegally should also go to jail. Do you agree with that or not?" Agree.

To which I will add three more questions.

2. To what generational cohort do you belong: Greatest, Silent, Boomer, Gen-X, Millennial? Boomer.

3. Do you believe there is any chance, however remote, of an investigation that will dig into the organizations, find all the perpetrators, and send them all to jail, including Corzine? Hell no.

4. It is the members of the _boomer_ generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to the financial crisis.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner July 24, 2012 10:00 AM  

1. Affirmative.
2. The so-called "Greatest"
3. When the SHTF, they will be offed, until
then, they are part of the 'Gunverment Mafia'
and are to 'serve and protect' themselves.
4. The so-called "Greatest", are actually the worst.

Anonymous Magister Aurelius July 24, 2012 10:03 AM  

1. Yes
2. Gen-X
3. No prosecutions. If society breaks down, there may be vigilante lynchings of bankers.
4. Boomers

Blogger Nicky Haflinger July 24, 2012 10:11 AM  

1 agree
2 X
3 No
4 Boomers as the bosses they are responsible by definition plus their collective decisions of the 70s and 80s to shut down the power grid expansion and legalize and then normalize fraud have left few options for the capable or ambitious.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 24, 2012 10:17 AM  

1. Yes
2. Gen-X
3. Probably not. Corzine was head of Goldman Sachs, so he knows way too much to be sent to jail.
4. Boomers. While Gen-X does have a share of blame, they have been taught via the mass media to worship the Boomers who saved them from the rigid conservatism of the "Greatest" generation. In many cases, they are following in their footsteps.

Anonymous CynicAle July 24, 2012 10:18 AM  

1. Aff
2. Gen-X as if there was a doubt.
3. Neg
4. Boomer

Anonymous Azimus July 24, 2012 10:18 AM  

1. Yes all convicted criminals should go to jail regardless of their age.

2. Gen-X

3. 0% chance for Corzine/other trial. 10% for some kind of patty-cake sentence for Corzine (house-arrest or whatnot)

4. Boomers

Anonymous Drew_Deuces July 24, 2012 10:26 AM  

1. Yes
2. Millennial
3. No
4. Boomers, because I see them more as in seats of power; although greed and avarice are found in all generations and likely to have been more easily transferred from Boomers to X-er's as our culture continues to degrade.

Anonymous Barney July 24, 2012 10:30 AM  

Yes
Boomer
No
Boomer

Anonymous Ten July 24, 2012 10:30 AM  

1. Yes
2. Gen-X
3. No
4. Boomers

Anonymous MendoScot July 24, 2012 10:32 AM  

1. Yes.
2. Boomer/Gen-X limit.
3. I'm going to swim against the tide on this one. I think there is a realistic chance that the next administration will find it politic to sacrifice some former friends in the financial industry - preferably someone high-profile and associated with the other faction. A complete cleansing? No.
4. More than enough guilt to go around. Boomers by sheer number, but neither Gen-X or Silent are innocent.

Anonymous Coyote July 24, 2012 10:36 AM  

1. Yes, hang 'em all.

2. Millennial

3. Not going to happen.

Any cop knows they'll be dropped if they even touch it so it's simply not worth the risk to go after their master's paymaster.

4. Boomers. They were the captains of the ship and they deserve the most blame.

Blogger IM2L844 July 24, 2012 10:38 AM  

I'm going to swim against the tide on this one. I think there is a realistic chance that the next administration will find it politic to sacrifice some former friends in the financial industry - preferably someone high-profile and associated with the other faction.

The statute of limitations is quickly running out.

Anonymous Phil Mann July 24, 2012 10:38 AM  

1. Yes
2. Boomer
3. No
4. Boomers, although the Greatest set it up by relaxing traditional standards and buying into collectivist/Marxist claptrap. (They elected LBJ after all, before boomers could even vote.)

Blogger Mark July 24, 2012 10:38 AM  

1. Yes

2. Boomer

3. No

4. What generation were J.P. Morgan and the rest of the Jekyll Island club that restarted a central bank for the United States?

Anonymous Just Mark July 24, 2012 10:41 AM  

1. Obviously
2. Boomer
3. 1 in a sigma 5.
4. Avarice is avarice regardless of generation. No raindrop will ever expect responsibility for the flood. There was a reason the priests offered sacrifices for the sins of the community (read Leviticus)

Blogger Kentucky Packrat July 24, 2012 10:46 AM  

1: Jail for lawbreakers. Period. And money held in trust that is then lost is taken using theft by deception.

2. Generation X.

3. Individuals may be sacrificed, but there will be no large-scale interventions, barring a French Revolution-style reign of terror.

4. I am going to make a slight aside, to address the question AND Wheeler's usual foaming at the mouth knee-jerk.

My grandfather was and my father is a farmer. My grandfather regularly cussed about the greed of cattle buyers who bought his cattle and made "good money" off of them without hard work. My father criticized a non-farmer neighbor who bought corn futures a couple of years ago at their high, and then bought the corn to fulfill the future as it went down. Again, the same theme: how dare they make money off of farmers' labor.

A little after I was born, my family got out of the pork business. Fischers in Lousiville (and other pork processors) started buying hogs directly from farmers. At first, the farmers got more than from the middlemen, but now pork is so cheap on the hoof that small farmers can't afford to raise them. Beef is still profitable for most farmers, because the middlemen can moderate the pressure of the producers to drop the on-hoof price of animals.

Go read "Are Jews Generic?" out of Black Rednecks and White Liberals. Societies hate the middleman, no matter if he's Jew, Lebanese, or Korean, but society NEEDs the middleman.

IMHO, the WW2 and Silent generations mis-raised the Boomers. They coddled them, and let the Boomers separate themselves from reality and responsibility. The Boomers went wild, deciding that government was the solution, not the problem. It was Boomer lawmakers that forced banks to loan money to groups that couldn't pay for the loans just because of skin color. It was the Silents who decided that taking care of people was government's business (welfare, Medicare, etc.), and Boomers who promoted it to a civil right that was earned by everyone alive.

The fundamental problem isn't that bankers and money lenders are set to lose a lot of money. The problem is that the government is set to stop this natural process. This is the opposite of what has ever been allowed to happen in history. Traditionally, the ruling class throws the middlemen to the wolves first. If anything, the situation in 2012 is a sign that the middlemen have been supplemented by the ruling class, not that they own the ruling class.

Blogger Markku July 24, 2012 10:52 AM  

1: yes
2: X
3: no
4: Boomer

Anonymous CMC July 24, 2012 10:54 AM  

1. Yes.

2. Gen-X.

3. No. No chance of an investigation that will dig into _all_ the organizations, find _all_ the perpetrators, _and_ send them _all_ to jail, including Corzine.

4. Boomer generation primarily responsible.

Like FIFO, or is it LIFO? Last, highest guy to sign-off on the fraud, or the highest guy to order the fraud, should be face the stiffest penalties. Who gained what should also go into the equation. Obviously if an ostensible underling gained millions while his so-called boss only drew thousands, than that should factor into who was the real boss or prime mover of the operation.

Anonymous Passinthrough July 24, 2012 10:58 AM  

1. "Jon Corzine should go to jail, and any Gen-Xers reporting to Corzine who committed fraud or who participated in co-mingling investor funds illegally should also go to jail. Do you agree with that or not?"

Agree

To which I will add three more questions.

2. To what generational cohort do you belong: Greatest, Silent, Boomer, Gen-X, Millennial?

Boomer

3. Do you believe there is any chance, however remote, of an investigation that will dig into the organizations, find all the perpetrators, and send them all to jail, including Corzine?

No chance. The crooks have taken over.

4. It is the members of the _______ generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to the financial crisis.

These crimes are the fruit of relative morality. The concept has been around since the 1940s. It has finally reached critical mass because the majority believe there is no absolute standard of right or wrong.

Anonymous Stilicho July 24, 2012 11:21 AM  

1. "Jon Corzine should go to jail, and any Gen-Xers reporting to Corzine who committed fraud or who participated in co-mingling investor funds illegally should also go to jail. Do you agree with that or not?"

To which I will add three more questions.

2. To what generational cohort do you belong: Greatest, Silent, Boomer, Gen-X, Millennial?

3. Do you believe there is any chance, however remote, of an investigation that will dig into the organizations, find all the perpetrators, and send them all to jail, including Corzine?

4. It is the members of the _______ generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to the financial crisis.


1. Agree.
2. X.
3. Hell no!
4. Boomer.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza July 24, 2012 11:24 AM  

What?! Wait...Really? I think my head is going to explode.

Gen X was recruited in banking to work for less money to sell rotten securities without the proper education or licenses. Some people did it, some people didn't and cried FOWL. Calling the attorney generals on their donkey asses. Some boomers or gen x'ers helped, some didn't help and that is why it took until 2008 for the damn thing to pop. It should have been 2005 or 2006!

Meanwhile the millenials and younger kids are going to suffer in unemployment, gen y and gen x sit at home playing video for damn good reason; at least we aren't cheating, stealing and pillaging when pvp'ing!!

1. Yes: send the **Jon's** of the world to jail.

2. Gen X

3. No! There will be no investigations, no litigation/application of justice, the law is absent and unrecoverable.

4. Everyone is to blame but especially the stupid, self-destructive boomers.

Anonymous Wendy July 24, 2012 11:27 AM  

"The evidence is overwhelming that Gen-Xers were the perpetrators of the crimes related to the financial crisis simply because it was only the Gen-X financial engineers who had the education and skills to create fraudulent residential mortgage backed collaterized debt obligations (RMB CDOs)..."

Wait, so Gen Xers are guilty because they can do math?

Blogger Booch Paradise July 24, 2012 11:30 AM  

1. Yes
2. Millennial
3. No
4. Boomer

Blogger Tim Lindell July 24, 2012 11:38 AM  

1. Yes
2. Gen-X
3. No
4. Boomer

Anonymous The One July 24, 2012 11:38 AM  

Based on your puppy shock post. 75% of all people across all generations should be jailed or killed.

Anonymous whtbread July 24, 2012 11:42 AM  

1. yes
2. Gen- X
3. No
4. Boomer

Anonymous kh123 July 24, 2012 12:01 PM  

1. Yes
2. X
3. Other than fines and a few token jail terms, no.
4. Boomer primarily. It's the Nuremberg Question: Who was engineering, who was following orders, and who in the public was buying into it (a. out of naivete, or b. to turn a profit).

Anonymous Anonymous July 24, 2012 12:48 PM  

1. Yes
2. X
3. No
4. Boomer & Silent

Anonymous Emperor of Icecream July 24, 2012 12:53 PM  

1. Yes.
2. Gen X.
3. No.
4. Greatest (they created the postwar machinery).

Anonymous HardReturn¶ July 24, 2012 12:57 PM  

1. yes
2. X
3. no
4. oldest cohort of Boomers were at top management peak earning years in past decade

Blogger R. Bradley Andrews July 24, 2012 1:00 PM  

1 Yes
2 Technically boomer I believe (1962), but I feel more like Gen-X.
3 No
4 Boomer, though it remains a human problem, not a generational one as several have noted

Anonymous Revan July 24, 2012 1:12 PM  

1. Yes
2. Millennial
3. Greatest, they laid the foundation for the rapid expansion of the state and failed to properly raise the next generation of children.

Anonymous Revan July 24, 2012 1:12 PM  

Oops, #3 is No :)

OpenID leterren July 24, 2012 1:25 PM  

1. Absolutely
2. Millenial
3. No, there's too much deep-seeded corruption for anything substantial to happen.
4. Boomers, mostly. A little bit of X.

Anonymous Stilicho July 24, 2012 1:58 PM  

Wait, so Gen Xers are guilty because they can do math?

It goes beyond that by implying that Boomers are absolved of any responsibility because they are too stupid to understand what their employees were doing.

Blogger Monsignor Scott Rassbach July 24, 2012 2:14 PM  

Yes
X
No
Boomers & Gen X

Anonymous mistaben July 24, 2012 2:38 PM  

1. Absolutely

2. I'm right on the border between Gen X and Millennials

3. Not a chance

4. Boomers

Anonymous FP July 24, 2012 2:42 PM  

1. Yes
2. Gen X
3. No, sans revolution
4. All have guilt but Boomers have taken their lessons to the extreme, aka Suzanne researched this.

Anonymous WaterBoy July 24, 2012 2:47 PM  

1. Yes.
2. Boomer/X, depending on exact cutoff (b.1963)
3. No. Key word: all. There is absolutely no chance they will find all those responsible, as those who have done due diligence in their CYA will slither through unscathed.
4. N/A. It wasn't primarily one generational group; the age spread is just too wide. Rather, it is more of a vocational or even class-based divide. You might as well say that it was the male gender which was primarily responsible, and the caucasian race which was primarily responsible, since most of those involved were white males.

Anonymous Anonymous July 24, 2012 3:03 PM  

1. Yes. (at the very least)
2. generation X
3. No
4. Boomer (they hold the strings in the highest levels of authority, public and private)

Anonymous beerme July 24, 2012 3:14 PM  

1. Yes
2. Millenial
3. No
4. Boomer

Anonymous jb July 24, 2012 4:06 PM  

Xenakis has grasped a part of the thing, to be sure. But given the linear progression of all the matters - from glitches in the Constitution exploited over the very early years up to and through Lincoln's shenanigans, to those of the bankers of circa 1900 - 1913, which resulted in the passage of the 16th Amendment (quickly followed by the Federal Reserve Act of the very same year - the development and origins easily accessible), one must take a far broader view than that of "generational." What of the generation before "the greatest?" Are they not in the mix? Or the generations before them?

I, for one, see this entire matter not as a matter of generations whatsoever but rather, a matter of personal responsibility - among politicians, bankers/financiers/swindlers, and the citizenry. Much of what burdens Americans today is due to the passive acceptance of whatever in many decades before. Pretending the present financial crisis suddenly "popped up" to bedevil us all is a bit of fiction, to be sure.

I would add the 17th Amendment (gee, 1913 as well!), which as I see it, utterly destroyed the one salvific bridge between the Articles of Confederation and Hamilton's Constitution, and the entire issue of states rights and the people fighting off the Federal Leviathan. There may have been conspiratorial tones and activity behind them (Wilson was not exactly in his right mind, for instance), but most all of what we have presently reaped comes from very public/political/banking-money issue actions accepted and lived with and through by the citizenry of those way before the "greatest generation" and those listed since.

Over the years, there were shades of developments of financial tools not understood by the citizenry. It is highly notable that within the single year of 1913 - the entire understand of coinage, taxes, and states rights were completely undone. That it took a mere 16 years before the horror of Black Monday, 1929, crashed in among the citizenry and the like, should clue in everyone, including Xenakis, that the present garbage (which it most certainly is), is not traceable to "generations" - but - as you so often say . . .

The truth.

Such things are not new . . . Turgot dealt with much of our present by other names, and while he was a statist/monarchist, he rightly saw that even America was about to embark on a faulty economic scheme. Of course, he was ridiculed and driven away in the end, because the state insists at every turn on controlling the economy. Much credit is afforded de Tocqueville for his prescience regarding America, but Turgot saw it first. Be that as it may . . .

Every generation is to blame, or none is to blame, and it is all a full-scale gummint plan and operation. The genius of gummint is its ability to get the citizenry to fuss with this specific or that, without seeing said specific in their gummint's) grand scheme of things. And we, the people, continually fall for it every single time, and then go casting blame among ourselves, according to date of birth. Gummint loves the way we react!

Date of birth? That solves nothing - it is merely a diversion from what humans in every generation ever have tried to do - get it over on their fellow man. No surprise, just a much larger scale, given the day and age. (Re: Jesus - Holy Week in the Temple - whip of cords)

All of the above IMHO

P.S. The Q's . . .

1. Corzine has admitted to being a crook, but within the rules of gummint. He's off the hook. Obviously.

2. I do not define myself in any way, shape or form "generationally. Every generation has its politicians, its outright crooks, and its true producers. I am of the latter, and do not identify with the chatter of categorization. ThHere is nary a stitch of profit in doing so.

3. Perhaps a couple, as part of "the show."

4. See above.

Anonymous tinlaw July 24, 2012 5:38 PM  

1. I don't support the notion of jails, but I think he (Corzine) and they (his cronies) should be brought to justice.
2. Gen X (on the border, born in '65)
3. No
4. boomer

Blogger Desert Cat July 24, 2012 7:52 PM  

1. Yes. And don't stop with Corzine and his organization.

2. X, despite my birth year. I see those of my class that I associated with as the first post-hippy, post-Carter class. We registered to vote, then voted for Reagan, which was as clean a break from the classes before us as there could have been.

3."...however remote..." How remote you wanna go? No, not before Kingdom come. I am too cynical about the elites that run the financial world and the grip they have on all levels of power. Now if you want to allow for the Eschaton in your definition of "however remote", well...

4.None of them. It is not a generational thing. Those who belong to the closed club at the top, whatever their generation, have wrought this debacle for their own ends. Perhaps the older generations have more culpability as they occupy the topmost tiers.

Anonymous Res Ipsa July 24, 2012 8:08 PM  

1. Agree
2. Gen X
3. no
4. Boomers

5. Logans Run is a good idea who's time has come, provided we use 55 as the age for the arena.

Anonymous WaterBoy July 24, 2012 8:19 PM  

Res Ipsa: "5. Logans Run is a good idea who's time has come, provided we use 55 as the age for the arena."

Remember that when the generation after yours votes to make it 35....

Anonymous Seven July 24, 2012 8:43 PM  

1. Yes
2. Gen X
3. No
4. Boomer

Anonymous The CronoLink July 25, 2012 12:17 AM  

1. Yes
2. Millenial
3. No
4. Boomer

Anonymous TLM July 25, 2012 12:36 AM  

Yes
X
no way
Boomers

Blogger LP 999/Eliza July 25, 2012 2:45 AM  

I don't know, I don't hate boomers or any generation since labels sometimes leave me soured. But I do dislike some of the them along with the gothic, punk/grunge redux of the gen xer's.

I wish everyone would be happy, healthy, successful and equal but none of that is reality. The humanitarian in me wishes for all these nice things but its not reality...

What future would any of these generations have? Boomers have their own problems too. Yet the younger generations are almost being treated like they are not allowed to work or something.

I cannot imagine working in HC (health care) and caring for the 60 million boomers with their wild tales, tats and enjoyment of the sucky beatles/smoking dope - not that I care who is smoking what. After 60 or 70 what does it matter what old people do?

Anonymous tiredofitall July 25, 2012 3:12 AM  

1. "Jon Corzine should go to jail, and any Gen-Xers reporting to Corzine who committed fraud or who participated in co-mingling investor funds illegally should also go to jail. Do you agree with that or not?"

Agree.

2. To what generational cohort do you belong: Greatest, Silent, Boomer, Gen-X, Millennial?

Gen-X

3. Do you believe there is any chance, however remote, of an investigation that will dig into the organizations, find all the perpetrators, and send them all to jail, including Corzine?

Not a chance in hell all those responsible will get swept up. They'll offer a sacrificial lamb and be done with it.

4. It is the members of the _______ generation that are primarily responsible for the perpetration of the crimes related to the financial crisis.

Boomers. They went from peace and free love to marketable securities and bad loans backed up by the blood, sweat, and tears of at least the next three generations without a thought or care.

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