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Monday, July 23, 2012

WND column

The Lone Gunmen

No doubt many Americans believe James Holmes acted alone in shooting up the Denver theater because they were told that was the case, despite at least one witness report that someone else appears to have been involved. While it is a remote possibility that Holmes was the individual seen opening the emergency exit prior to the entrance of the gunman, the fact that he has his hair dyed bright red tends to preclude that possibility as the witness would be expected to have remembered such an unusual attribute. And even if the man taking the phone call was Holmes, that would raise the question of who called him just prior to the attack.

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125 Comments:

Anonymous glacierman July 23, 2012 1:16 AM  

If Holmes was indeed intent on taking out as many as possible, why would he tell the authorities that his apartment was booby-trapped? If he wanted to kill that badly, why the clue as to stop the mayhem?

Unless he really, really is crazy!

Or demonized!

Anonymous Despair July 23, 2012 1:21 AM  

Seen this?
http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html

Blogger Shimshon July 23, 2012 1:29 AM  

Hey Vox, on a related note, at LRC today is an article asking why no one bothered to fight back. It's an interesting point, because after 9/11 everyone said that hijackers would never have it so easy again. Yet the utter passivity (and the few reports I have read so far indicates that passivity was the rule) of the entire audience just shows how ridiculous things have gotten. In Israel, this attacker would have been lucky to get off more than one shot before he was pounded with quite a bit of lead himself.

Also related, two separate sites have asked what (legal) drugs this guy was on. And further reflection after all the bizarre attacks garnering recent publicity brings me to wonder the same thing. "Bath salts" indeed! I would more likely put money on long-term SSRI or other drug (perfectly legal and widely prescribed) regimens.

But back to your speculation. I also accept that nothing the government says or the media spouts can be accepted without a serious amount of skepticism. And that government is very likely involved in some way, either directly, or that they "merely" have prior knowledge of the plans.

Anonymous JCB July 23, 2012 1:30 AM  

That was the point I was going to make glacierman. If you've just shot up a theatre full of people, and previously taken the trouble to rig your apt with explosives, why the hell tell the cops about it? There is no reason to do so, no reason at all. It adds some gravitas to the story the govt is trying to sell, though. This whole thing stinks badly.

Anonymous Roundtine July 23, 2012 1:45 AM  

From that Natural News link: "After his arrest, Holmes told police about 'possible explosives in his residence,'

If you believe the false flag line and that he's not crazy, the word 'possibly' makes all the difference. Someone else planted the bombs, without him being present.

Anonymous Noah B. July 23, 2012 1:47 AM  

"But back to your speculation. I also accept that nothing the government says or the media spouts can be accepted without a serious amount of skepticism."

The government and the media have lost all credibility. They've been caught red-handed with Fast & Furious, and the media is now actively trying to protect Obama, Holder, and Clinton. It's possible that the media's version of this story is accurate, but there's no good reason to take them at their word about this or anything else.

Anonymous Roundtine July 23, 2012 1:59 AM  

Since the vote coming up is a UN Treaty, a false flag also has to open up the possibility of foreign involvement.

Blogger Hermit July 23, 2012 2:20 AM  

Being familiar with the area, many of the details seemed very strange to me from the beginning. I can think of half a dozen theaters in the Denver area that would have been better targets. The Chinese Mann for one.

Anonymous vandelay July 23, 2012 2:22 AM  

"the word 'possibly' makes all the difference."

That just sounds like cop talk to me, always leaving themselves an out.

Anonymous stg58 July 23, 2012 2:52 AM  

Forget the money. Where did he get the knowledge and skills necessary to turn his apartment into a Rube Goldberg kill box?

Anonymous Faust July 23, 2012 3:16 AM  

Weren't they seeking a 2nd person of interest? Another neuroscience student?

Anonymous Koanic July 23, 2012 4:08 AM  

I think he did act alone. Persecuted high-IQ Neanderthals are perfectly capable of rigging elaborate explosive labyrinths. In fact it's happened before: The Bath School Disaster.

I am all for conspiracy theory. I think 9/11 was a demo job. I don't know about McVeigh, but it's a smart place to look.
Faked first moon landing? Plausible. Kennedy assassination? Very murky.

However, the solo Neanderthal shooter is not a government false flag. He almost always operates alone, because Neanderthals are loners. The only exception I can think of is Dylan and Klebold, and they had the advantage of forced communal living to bring them together.

When the government does a false flag, they aren't smart enough to create the perfect Neanderthal footprint, because they don't even have a clue it exists.

What the Aurora shooter did makes perfect sense. Become the Joker. Watch the world burn. Neanderthals have been going off the reservation like this, in small but persistent numbers, for quite some time. I talk about it here.

As to why the shooter told the police about the bombs, and didn't go down in a blaze of glory - he probably ran out of steam. You see, he wasn't actually the Joker.

Anonymous Koanic July 23, 2012 4:15 AM  

Oh, but there's a much more fascinating possibility. Maybe this is our first fully post-red pill omega Neanderthal shooter.

I say this mainly because of the headline on his Adult FriendFinder profile: "Will you visit me in prison?"

And his bio text, which claims he is a "nice guy," then qualifies it, "well as nice a guy as gets up to these sorts of shenanigans."

What he has basically done is create a conjugal prison visits advertisement page for himself, using Game concepts and langauge, in his Joker persona.

Is this his joke on a world that rejected him? Is this his version of Game?

It would explain why he's not talking, why he stayed in character, and why he told the cops about the bombs - if they just blundered into them, they couldn't appreciate his meticulousness. Better to leave them a puzzle which he perhaps arrogantly thought they couldn't solve.

Of course this is all speculation and may be giving a damaged person too much credit. But given the exceptional execution of the theater shooting, I don't think it's a completely unwarranted stretch.

Anonymous The Great Martini July 23, 2012 5:33 AM  

Not sure about that one. More likely, Holmes bought a ticket, took a seat, use that feature of most cell phones to hit a few keys to ring yourself, pretended to have to talk to someone and used that as an excuse to use the emergency exit without attracting attention, propped it open, retrieved his arms, came back, and used them.

Anonymous LES July 23, 2012 5:38 AM  

If his behavior wasn't caused by drugs and he really is sane, then I would bet he is being given drugs now and we'll never know what his motive was. We will never be allowed to hear him explain his actions in his own words.

Anonymous VD July 23, 2012 5:43 AM  

More likely, Holmes bought a ticket, took a seat, use that feature of most cell phones to hit a few keys to ring yourself, pretended to have to talk to someone and used that as an excuse to use the emergency exit without attracting attention, propped it open, retrieved his arms, came back, and used them.

I already addressed that. It doesn't explain how the witness missed a) his bright red hair, and b) the fact that he was dressed head-to-toe in black assault armor. It's unreasonable to assume that a witness who was perceptive enough to note the call and the response to it would somehow have missed those two attributes.

Anonymous Rantor July 23, 2012 6:00 AM  

OK... while I wondered about the phone call myself, and you would probably notice someone already in armor with red hair... if he put the armor on after he went outside??? Still even in a theater, the lighting at ours is only dimmed during the trailers, not dark... the red hair should have been visible.

in another article I read it indicated that he took a heavy dose of tranquilizers so that he'd stay calm during the shooting. It might be instructive to find out who gave those to him/how he obtained them.

Further we do need to know what his daily drug intake was and whether he had gone off his meds.

As for the Joker thing, the Joker had green hair, everyone knows that... and some people think this guy is smart.

Anonymous The Great Martini July 23, 2012 6:03 AM  

He would have donned the armor when he retrieved his arms. There's no way he would have worn that while buying a ticket and waiting in line. The red hair could have been either a wig over his real hair, or his real hair covered by a normal wig upon his entrance. Either way, that is something that will be revealed in time.

Anonymous Stilicho July 23, 2012 6:11 AM  

The Pioneer press reported in a similar vein: Corbin Dates and Jennifer Seeger were sitting in the second row of the theater when Dates saw someone in the front row answer a phone call during the opening credits and walk to the emergency door in the front of the theater.

I do not know if it was the same witness as the CNN report (Pioneer Press report ID's by name). Link: http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_21118201/unknown-number-people-shot-at-aurora-movie-theater?source=rss

Anonymous VD July 23, 2012 6:15 AM  

He would have donned the armor when he retrieved his arms. There's no way he would have worn that while buying a ticket and waiting in line. The red hair could have been either a wig over his real hair, or his real hair covered by a normal wig upon his entrance.

It's possible, certainly. But unlikely. I am not saying that he absolutely could not have acted alone. I am merely observing that the weight of the evidence to which we are currently privy is stacked against the likelihood that he did so. His peaceful surrender makes a bit more sense now that we are told a policeman spotted an anomaly in his body armor. He appears to have been trying to slip away quietly amid the chaos in the disguise of a SWAT officer.

Anonymous Koanic July 23, 2012 6:18 AM  

If he left during the opening credits and came in 30 minutes in, that's enough time to get dressed and armed.

We don't have any description of the cell phone guy from what I've seen.

He may have an associate from his academic program, but I don't think this is enough to establish that.

Sounds like a normal part of a solo plan - fake cell phone call, prop exit, return. Walking into a theater cold is actually harder - how do you know you've got the right one? How do you know the layout after popping smoke?

Anonymous daddynichol July 23, 2012 6:24 AM  

I've been curious as to the witness account of the cell phone person leaving the theater and the start of the attack. Was it less than thirty seconds; a minute; two minutes? How much time elapsed? It takes time to suit up and armor up, so if the time was short, then he had help. If it was 5 or 6 minutes, then he may have acted alone.

Also, where was his car parked in relation to the theater door? If it were some distance, why did no one notice a fully armed person walking toward the theater? For that matter, why would the shooter park far away thus risking detection if they are so smart?

Too many open questions. MSM coverage is only focusing on the "evil gun and their availability" angle.

Anonymous VD July 23, 2012 6:25 AM  

Walking into a theater cold is actually harder - how do you know you've got the right one? How do you know the layout after popping smoke?

Very easily. He could have simply cased the location by attending another movie on a previous date. That strikes me as much easier.

Anonymous VD July 23, 2012 6:27 AM  

I've been curious as to the witness account of the cell phone person leaving the theater and the start of the attack. Was it less than thirty seconds; a minute; two minutes? How much time elapsed? It takes time to suit up and armor up, so if the time was short, then he had help. If it was 5 or 6 minutes, then he may have acted alone.

I thought the first report said one hour, which even at the time struck me as bizarre unless he hit the theater halfway through the movie.

Anonymous Koanic July 23, 2012 6:29 AM  

It doesn't seem that easy to me. Things can go wrong. You don't know in advance which theater room will be showing which movie. Sometimes movies start with a delay. Etc.

I'd be much more comfortable walking into a room I just left, that I knew was at capacity.

Plus why else would he buy a ticket.

Anonymous The Great Martini July 23, 2012 6:30 AM  


Walking into a theater cold is actually harder - how do you know you've got the right one? How do you know the layout after popping smoke?


That's not a strong argument against him not having an accomplice. He almost certainly cased the joint days or weeks prior, which the theater will have recorded with security cams if it isn't totally inept. Even if he was disguised during his prior visits, eventually they'll probably recognize him if they examine the video carefully enough. If they do, and he has any interaction with another person, that would of course be strong evidence that there was an accomplice.

Anonymous Koanic July 23, 2012 6:37 AM  

Another thing, the Joker doesn't really have any partners. It's such an idiosyncratic, personally grandiose crime. Maybe there's at most one other guy, but I'm expecting either less involvement or no guy at all.

Anonymous Stilicho July 23, 2012 6:40 AM  

I thought the first report said one hour, which even at the time struck me as bizarre unless he hit the theater halfway through the movie.

The report was rather vague: Less than an hour later a man, dressed in black and wearing a gas mask and what looked like body armor, entered through the same emergency exit. He lobbed two canisters and almost instantly the theater filled with smoke.

Regardless, a fake cell phone call does not strike me as something the shooter would have done. Much simpler to just get up and leave if it was him in the front row. It's not like any of the patrons were expecting this, so there was no need to stage a ruse for leaving the theater.

Anonymous Rosalys July 23, 2012 6:46 AM  

As for the red hair - sprayed on from a can. Isn't that stuff used at Halloween? Doesn't necessarily have to be a dye job.

Anonymous Oh, Snap! July 23, 2012 6:49 AM  

A witness mentions a possible second shooter.

Anonymous Koanic July 23, 2012 6:56 AM  

Faking a phone call as a pretext for leaving a theater makes total sense. Particularly if you're someone who's socially awkward. His act of leaving through the emergency exit was already weird enough that people remembered it afterwards. Simply striding out would have been vaguely alarming.

Anonymous Koanic July 23, 2012 7:07 AM  

Remember that he had to avoid suspicion so that he wouldn't be caught propping the exit. He probably rehearsed exactly how he would do it.

Anonymous RedJack July 23, 2012 7:24 AM  

Most theaters around here have alarms on the emergency exit doors. Opening them also turns on the lights.

I am not sure if he acted alone, I am not sure if he didn't. But the type of gear he was wearing takes special permits to aquire (I can by the vests, I can't buy the trama plates, not to mention tear gas). With the records being sealed, we may never know.

Anonymous Outlaw X July 23, 2012 7:56 AM  

Very good, Vox.

Anonymous Kickass July 23, 2012 8:14 AM  

First live interview I watched said it was nearly instantaneous. He said the guy left to take the call then boom an explosion and the shooter came in. Later articles gave a longer time delay. Interesting tidbit, shooter reseached temporal illusions for science project.
Interesting news here http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MARINES_LAW_ENFORCEMENT_BATTALION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-07-22-17-33-46

Anonymous aero July 23, 2012 8:15 AM  

There are good witnesses and there are bad witnesses. The news media is and always will be the worst source for getting the truth. The news media does a very poor job of verifying the facts and the witnesses.
They are more interested in projecting the story that fits there political agenda.

When tragedy occurs to a group of people there ability to remember details accurately effects the majority of them.

Your watching a movie. your focus is on the big screen. What part of the movie did he get up? what part of the movie did someone open the door? The eyes ability to change focus from the big screen to the exit door that is much darker. Would mean that this witness would have to have super human eyesight.

Anonymous Kickass July 23, 2012 8:17 AM  

The scheduel for the theatres is set. You have movie a showing in room x for a set amount of time.

Anonymous Redjack July 23, 2012 8:19 AM  

By=buy. I shoud never type with my phone..

Anonymous paradox July 23, 2012 8:32 AM  

I find it funny, that this wackjob buys all his stuff from the Internet and what was it, only two weeks a go? Google announces it will no longer allow searches on firearms or ammunition on its SHOP feature.


I'm really wondering if all of this isn't to insure a Romney election. You know the saying, "Only Nixion could go to China." Well politically today, only a Republican could pass another 'assault weapons' ban and Romney made the last ban permanent Massachusetts.

Anonymous LPP July 23, 2012 8:39 AM  

Is it confirmed he had red hair during the shooting? He had black hair in the video of him in the orange jumpsuit yesterday

Anonymous Kickass July 23, 2012 8:41 AM  

Baseball cap and putting on the armor before he came back in.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat July 23, 2012 8:44 AM  

Most theaters around here have alarms on the emergency exit doors. Opening them also turns on the lights.

The plural of anecdote isn't data. :) Even so, the theaters around here aren't visibly alarmed. I attended a Dark Knight marathon, and we had a couple of guys take a call and go out the emergency exit during the second movie too. No lights, no buzzers, no anything. I suspect that Holmes chose that theater in part specifically because there were no alarms on the door.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler July 23, 2012 8:45 AM  

There are other holes of course. If he pre-staged his gear in the emergency hallway, then there must have been bags, seabags, or gym bags, left behind. A man must have the ability to carry the stuff out of his apartment and into the movie theater without anybody knowing it. He had to use duffel bags of some sort.

Where are they?

Second, transportation. Did he own a car?

Anonymous Buck Swamp July 23, 2012 8:51 AM  

Vox,

Even after nearly fifty years, I am still always surprised whenever an otherwise brilliant person such as yourself implies that the Kennedy asasination was some sort of conspiracy by Lyndon Johnson, or the CIA, or organized crime, or the government in collusion with organized crime, or Castro, or Krushchev, or Ho Chi Minh, or Barry Goldwater, or, well, anybody except Lee Harvey Oswald.

There are many intelligent, well-written books debunking the Kennedy-assasination conspiracy theorists. Vince Bugliosi's book is probably the definitive one, but Gerald Posner's book was also excellent.

Just because the US government is inherently evil, which I fervently believe, it doesn't naturally follow that everything bad that happens can be explained as a secret government conspiracy. You don't do yourself or your argument any favors when you wander off into Oliver Stone territory.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler July 23, 2012 8:58 AM  

Occums Razor says the simplest is the best. My take, Holmes is in the same paygrade as Klebold and Harris. No doubt with his superintelligence, Holmes is an atheist. While he is an atheist, his nihilism would have ate him up. He lived in a fantasy world, not connected to reality and his unreality became his reality. He was not successful in reality and so he took up more and more his unreality.

He lived out his unreality. This is not about "gun rights" or the 2nd Amendment nor about restrictive carry environments. This is about Secular society and what it produces. You can't have a secular society.

This is about the lack of the Grace of God. Every Atheist claims he can be good without God.

No, you can't. This is really about the prayer, the "Our Father", which ends with this line, "...and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from the Evil One". Holmes never prayed this prayer. He was lead into temptation and became a pawn to the Evil One.

Everyone is searching for a "material" cause. This is just like Klebold and Harris--their nihilism drove them to do it. Drove them to kill. Killing is the fruit of nihilism.

The prayer of the "Our Father" is something like a voodoo prayer; there is magic in it. There is power in the words and no human can live without reciting it daily.

You want to prevent Aurora and Columbine, everybody needs to prayer and have a connection to God. You can't have a secular society. Religion is necessary. As one can see in America, the lack thereof, America is becoming increasingly violent and absurd.

Holmes lived in a nihilistic atmosphere and it shows.

Anonymous JohnR July 23, 2012 9:04 AM  

Shimshon: Why people didn't fight back?

The movie theater was dark, the movie was playing and very loudly (My kids saw it yesterday and said it was very loud), and he had set of a smoke or tear gas bomb. I would guess confusion played a big part in it.

By the time some people sorted it out, it was too late or the guy had passed them by.

I saw a report that he was shooting at people trying to run for the exit.

Very few people would actually try to do something. Would I? I don't know. I have never been in a situation like this and hope I never am.

If he had been shooting out in the mall in the light and people could see him, it might be a different story.

Anonymous JI July 23, 2012 9:05 AM  

I'm sure there was a suspicious-looking guy standing on a grassy knoll just outside the theater.

Blogger Dan Hewitt July 23, 2012 9:12 AM  

Does anyone know if the exit door:
-opened into a hallway?
-opened directly to the exterior?

Anonymous Papapete July 23, 2012 9:15 AM  

Very minor quibble with your column that only a gun nut would care about: according to news reports the pistol used by Mr. Williams was a .380 not a .38. As to the substance of the column I don't see any compelling evidence either way yet. However I am open to the possibility of either scenario being true. It could be a lone gunman or a conspiracy.

The biggest problem with conspiracy theories is that so many people want to have someone to blame. They can't accept the idea that a lone person could have the ability to do this. So they flood the situation with "facts" that aren't. The Kennedy assassination is a prime example. With modern techniques it is clear that it was Oswald who was the lone gunman. Yet for decades the world was flooded with "evidence" that it was the CIA or the Mafia or little green men. Even now many believe that it was a conspiracy. As some conspiracy theories get debunked it casts doubt on all other conspiracy theories - even the ones which a probably true. Flight 800 probably was shot down by a surface-to-air missile, but it gets lumped into the same group as the Kennedy assassination, the moon landings, etc. and discounted by association with debunked theories.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 23, 2012 9:46 AM  

Sombody probably already pointed it out, but Williams' gun was a .380 not a .38. Ie, 9mm Kurz, or 9mm short.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 23, 2012 9:51 AM  

Buck Swamp said:

Even after nearly fifty years, I am still always surprised whenever an otherwise brilliant person such as yourself implies that the Kennedy asasination was some sort of conspiracy by Lyndon Johnson, or the CIA, or organized crime, or the government in collusion with organized crime, or Castro, or Krushchev, or Ho Chi Minh, or Barry Goldwater, or, well, anybody except Lee Harvey Oswald.


So, let me see. JFK had pissed off lots of very powerful people and groups, but it was some unknown, useless idiot who was so incredibly pissed at JFK who took him out all by him self?

Anonymous castricv July 23, 2012 9:51 AM  

Did you see who made that claim Vox? It's simply a case of I want to be a witness to something. I need to go back and check, but there was only one person making this claim out of many....Seems like someone getting on a cell phone in the theatre and then opening the emergency exit would have been something dozens would have seen and remebered.

Anonymous Randall July 23, 2012 9:53 AM  

I had a supervisor who supposedly had Asperger's Disorder who was terminated after making comments about coming in and shooting the place up, among other things. He was highly intelligent at what he did - Programming/SysAdmin work - but highly dysfunctional in other areas. He seemed to live with one foot in reality and one foot in his own fantasy world and had difficulty distinguishing between the two.

Based on what is being reported about James Holmes, I see a lot of similarities between my old supervisor and him - even that same smirk. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it turns out that Holmes is an Aspie, although if that is the case I suspect he may have had someone manipulating him or assisting him in some way.

If this was not the work of a lone gunman (or two), then perhaps the lone gunman story is a cover for something that Homeland Security warned us about in May.

Anonymous castricv July 23, 2012 9:54 AM  

-------So, let me see. JFK had pissed off lots of very powerful people and groups, but it was some unknown, useless idiot who was so incredibly pissed at JFK who took him out all by him self?--------


Yes. Was JFK the only president to not piss off a ton of people? That argument is silly. Reagan's shooter thought he could get Jodie Foster if he shot the president. Maybe Castro was behind that too. YOu know since they shot the moon footage on a Havana studio lot....

And dammit I wish we could still quote properly. This is annoying.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 23, 2012 9:56 AM  

How about this: Marvel comics staged this attack so that The Dark Knight Rises didn't outdo The Avengers in box office revenue.

There can be crazier theories than what Vox has written about. And he is merely repeating assertions already made by others based on eye witness testimony.

Anonymous III July 23, 2012 10:00 AM  

I still have several of those non FRN silver notes.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 23, 2012 10:02 AM  

Reagan's shooter thought he could get Jodie Foster if he shot the president

John Hinckley, Sr. had ties to George H. W. Bush, which is too much of a coincidence to merely dismiss the lone gunman theory.

Anonymous paradox July 23, 2012 10:06 AM  

swiftfoxmark2 July 23, 2012 9:56 AM

How about this: Marvel comics staged this attack so that The Dark Knight Rises didn't outdo The Avengers in box office revenue.


Marvel wouldn't have to, The Avengers has a far superior plot than The Dark Knight Rises. And the way human nature is, the shooting should actually increase attendance to the Batman movie.

Blogger SarahsDaughter July 23, 2012 10:07 AM  

Midnight, first run of a movie, and there was no one recording a pirated version? Or maybe they're in negotiations with The National Enquirer as we speak.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 23, 2012 10:16 AM  


Yes. Was JFK the only president to not piss off a ton of people? That argument is silly. Reagan's shooter thought he could get Jodie Foster if he shot the president.


So, who exactly, was Lee Harvey Oswald's love interest?

I also note that Reagan's shooter was pretty inept and up close and personal ...

And, the Wikipedia entry on LHO is very interesting.

Tell me, where did LHO get the training to shoot a moving target in the head? Yeah, I guess it was all that Radar Operator training he got.

Do you have any experience using a rifle with a scope? Note also, that he shot at that raciss General but missed, and yet he became an expert marksman a short while later.

Anonymous Buck Swamp July 23, 2012 10:20 AM  

The Other Skeptic said:

So, let me see. JFK had pissed off lots of very powerful people and groups, but it was some unknown, useless idiot who was so incredibly pissed at JFK who took him out all by him self?

Unkown, useless idiots are often quite resourceful.

Anonymous Buck Swamp July 23, 2012 10:27 AM  

The Other Skeptic said:

Do you have any experience using a rifle with a scope? Note also, that he shot at that raciss General but missed, and yet he became an expert marksman a short while later.

You do realize, of course, that your statement about Oswald failing in his attempt to assasinate General Walker a few months earlier, is a round-about admission that Oswald owned the murder weapon. So, your argument boils down to this: If Oswald missed one earlier shot, it is impossible for him to have hit Kennedy later.

Sound like 'tin-foil hat' stuff to me.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 23, 2012 10:29 AM  

No need to invoke conspiracy theories about assassinations in Afghanistan

Anonymous CMC July 23, 2012 10:29 AM  

What was the rent on his apartment? How did he pay it?

Anonymous RedJack July 23, 2012 10:29 AM  

Packrat,
You are correct. The fire codes and standards in CO are not those in NE, IA, or IL. But it struck me as very odd that you could open the emergency exit, in a dark theater, and have no alarm or lights. In a newer complex, I just havent' seen that.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler July 23, 2012 10:31 AM  

My friend's day back in Salinas was the Sergeant over Oswald when they were stationed in Japan. He told me that Oswald couldn't hit the broadside of a barn standing fifty feet ahead. Oswald was using a bolt action rifle, with no scope, getting off three shots at a moving target from an elevated platform. If I remember right, the eighth floor. Oswald couldn't have shot Kennedy. He also was positioned behind and above the president's car. Oswald couldn't have shot Kennedy and no person on an eighth floor position can shoot two people with one bullet with that kind of trajectory.

Anonymous VD July 23, 2012 10:32 AM  

Even after nearly fifty years, I am still always surprised whenever an otherwise brilliant person such as yourself implies that the Kennedy asasination was some sort of conspiracy by Lyndon Johnson, or the CIA, or organized crime, or the government in collusion with organized crime, or Castro, or Krushchev, or Ho Chi Minh, or Barry Goldwater, or, well, anybody except Lee Harvey Oswald.

Because there was a lot more going on there. Have a look at the three tramps sometime and who they were. And you have to be borderline retarded to believe Jack Ruby killed Oswald because he was such an aggrieved Kennedy fan. Anytime tracks are erased like that, it's because there is more to the story than the official version.

Hence the significance about the stories being floated in the media already about how the other prisoners are supposedly desperate to kill Holmes. If he dies one way or another before being permitted to speak openly, it's a distinct sign of a conspiracy.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 23, 2012 10:41 AM  


Oswald was using a bolt action rifle, with no scope, getting off three shots at a moving target from an elevated platform.


Well, this picture of
LHO holding scope-mounted rifle does not suggest that he did not own a rifle without a scope.

However, there is something weird about that photo. Why is his body slanted that way? It looks like the original photo had him leaning against a post holding something, perhaps the rifle, and it that was all they had available ...

When I hold a rifle in one hand I do not lift one foot of the ground and lean towards my opposite side to counteract the weight of the rifle.

I am reminded of the fake but accurate statements about the TANG letter allegedly about Bush the younger.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 23, 2012 10:43 AM  


If he dies one way or another before being permitted to speak openly, it's a distinct sign of a conspiracy.


Actually, my money is on him suddenly being overcome by remorse and "committing" suicide.

Anonymous Joe Doakes, Como Park July 23, 2012 10:47 AM  

He's a really smart guy who developed mental illness. It happens more than we like to admit. That doesn't make him incapable, it makes him irrational and THAT makes him dangerous, whether with a gun, a knife or even an aluminium baseball bat.

This isn't a gun-control question, it's a mental illness question: how do we protect society from dangerous people while respecting everybody's rights?

Nations have experimented with regulating possession of lumps of metal to varying degrees - it hasn't worked because they're regulating the wrong thing.

Remember Einstein's definition of insanity.
.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 23, 2012 10:51 AM  

OK, this is a better version of the photo and shows his left leg is slightly forward and his left foot is actually resting on the ground which overcomes my earlier objection, however there is some weird artifact in the top left of the photo and the LHO's shadow does not seem to match the shadows of the parts of the building to his right (in the left of the photo).

Anonymous No_Limit_Bubba™ July 23, 2012 10:54 AM  

Credit Where Credit Is Due Dept.

WLWheeler has fired up the mighty Wurlitzer of Truth, today. (One quibble: Oswald allegedly fired from the sixth (not the eighth) floor).

While, I am a conspiracy theory/coverup enthusiast...I think most ( including this one) are bunk. Flight 800 and JFK's assassination, however....

Anonymous The other skeptic July 23, 2012 11:05 AM  

When I got my Remington 700 in .308, with scope, which the gunshop owner said had been roughly sighted in with a boresight (laser), it was still off by four inches or so to the right at 50 yards. I had to sight it in.

It is interesting that the officers who found the rifle originally came to the conclusion that it was a Mauser. Could they not read the manufacturer off the rifle?

Anonymous patrick kelly July 23, 2012 11:13 AM  

".... at LRC today is an article asking why no one bothered to fight back. "

Shooting(or ?) effectively enough to stop an armored, moving, zombie sized target in a dark,(tear gas) smoked room without getting yourself shot or hitting any of the no-shoot targets is not very likely unless performed by someone who has actually practiced that scenario.

Seems to me to be quite a bit different than charging box-cutter wielding hi-jackers.

Anonymous Buck Swamp July 23, 2012 11:20 AM  

Vox said: And you have to be borderline retarded to believe Jack Ruby killed Oswald because he was such an aggrieved Kennedy fan. Anytime tracks are erased like that, it's because there is more to the story than the official version.

As a long-time borderline retard, I find your statement very offensive. But I used to think Ruby 'proved' there was a conspiracy too, but that was before I actually studied the facts.

Another thing: the argument that Oswald wasn't a good enough marksman to make the shot is bogus. Oswald was seen that morning carrying 'curtain rods' into the building, it wasn't that difficult of a shot, Oswald qualified as 'marksman' in the Marines,Oswald was working on the sixth floor that day, none of the other employees saw Oswald while the shots were being fired, the *&*! gun belonged to Oswald, Oswald left the building immediately after the assasination, Oswald killed a cop an hour later a few blocks from where he lived and was arrested for it a few blocks away in a theatre, and Oswald tried to shoot the arresting officer (which might imply conciousness of guilt, even to a borderline retard).

To say that Oswald wasn't invoved is ridiculous. Of course, it could've still been a conspiracy even if Oswald was the shooter, but then you run into a host of other logical problems.

But then, what's logic got to do with anything?

Anonymous paradox July 23, 2012 11:23 AM  

Joe Doakes, Como Park July 23, 2012 10:47 AM

He's a really smart guy who developed mental illness. It happens more than we like to admit...


"Imagination does not breed insanity. Exactaly what does breed insanity is reason. Poets do not go mad; but chess-players do. Mathematicians go mad..." G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy

Anonymous Koanic July 23, 2012 11:30 AM  

Insanity is when your mind actually doesn't work. Just being a sensitive neanderthal who's finally fed up doesn't qualify. SSRI's may have played some role, but I think we'll find a mostly rational fellow, same as Dylan and Klebold. Just very very pissed off.

Blogger Vox July 23, 2012 11:31 AM  

To say that Oswald wasn't invoved is ridiculous.

Never said Oswald wasn't involved. I've always assumed he was, at least a a patsy, otherwise Ruby wouldn't have had to clean up that loose thread.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza July 23, 2012 11:42 AM  

It is very sad, prayers for everyone involved...

Perhaps, America has center seats for a mass psyops trial to brainwash the 50% who don't like the 2nd amendment to agree with the eventual signing of the UN small arms treaty.

Anonymous Kriston July 23, 2012 12:28 PM  

RedJack July 23, 2012 10:29 AM

Packrat,
You are correct. The fire codes and standards in CO are not those in NE, IA, or IL. But it struck me as very odd that you could open the emergency exit, in a dark theater, and have no alarm or lights. In a newer complex, I just havent' seen that.


You have clearly never been in a Cinemark theater. They have clearly marked exits that most would consider the emergency exit, however that is the exit that they suggest you use. That way no one can sneak into another theater without paying.

These exits open to the parking lot, not into the lobby.

Anonymous Kriston July 23, 2012 12:51 PM  

Also, Cinemark has a very strict no guns policy. They have been known to allow exceptions and then have police escort people out in the middle of the movie afterward.

Anonymous patrick kelly July 23, 2012 12:59 PM  

"Oswald qualified as 'marksman' in the Marines...."

Not this crap again.

IIRC, at the time, marksman was the lowest rating you could get without actually failing to qualify at all, below sharpshooter and expert.

Even someone with an MC expert qualification would have had great difficulty making *all* the shots as fired that day because ***they don't qualify shooting at moving targets with a pos Italian carbine and scope through a window of a 6 story building***.

The (don't remember the name) 70's congressional re-examination of the Warren Report and assassination concluded other people were probably involved, and the US population collectively yawned.

Blogger Vox July 23, 2012 1:11 PM  

Is it confirmed he had red hair during the shooting? He had black hair in the video of him in the orange jumpsuit yesterday

Looks like it. "Theater 'gunman' makes first court appearance, has reddish orange hair"

Anonymous Buck Swamp July 23, 2012 1:13 PM  

Patrick,

Anybody who has actually been in the sixth floor of the Book Depository and looked out that window, knows that it was a relatively easy shot--the motorcade was moving about 10 mph in a direct line away from the window. The argument that Oswald couldn't have made the shot (actually one out of three shots) is frankly idiotic. Somebody sure as hell made the shot! The back of Kennedy's skull sure as hell blew off! And the shot was made with the gun that belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald. And witnesses on the street below saw a man fitting Oswald's description standing in the window just before the motorcade turned the corner in front of the building.

I realize, of course, that people who want to believe in conspiracies will believe in them despite all evidence to the contrary. If somebody produced a video of Oswald firing the shot, you'd just claim the CIA doctored it.

The 70's congressional finding that there was a second shooter was based on a tape recording that turned out not to have been made at the time of the assasination. It has about as much credibility as anything else congress comes up with.

Anonymous Gen. Kong July 23, 2012 1:17 PM  

castricv: Yes. Was JFK the only president to not piss off a ton of people? That argument is silly. Reagan's shooter thought he could get Jodie Foster if he shot the president. Maybe Castro was behind that too. YOu know since they shot the moon footage on a Havana studio lot....

No other teleprompter-reader issued an executive order instructing the treasury to coin the remaining stocks of silver and print United States Notes as Lincoln had done a century before to pay for the civil war - also likely the reason the old railroad shyster was killed (the Confederacy was already finished by that time). The Denver mint was already coining the silver in the for of Peace Dollars dated 1964 (all subsequently melted) when JFK was offed. Vampire squids don't appreciate being dissed by their handpicked employees in such a manner. RFK was eliminated because he likely knew who was behind his brother's murder and had to be dealt with accordingly.

Blogger Markku July 23, 2012 1:21 PM  

However, there is something weird about that photo. Why is his body slanted that way? It looks like the original photo had him leaning against a post holding something, perhaps the rifle, and it that was all they had available ...

The same weird thing is in most of my grandmother's wartime photos. For example, this:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1322/80734059.jpg

Horizontal lines are horizontal, vertical lines are completely skewed and always to the left. It has to be something about the way cameras worked at the time.

Blogger Markku July 23, 2012 1:26 PM  

Or maybe it was a fad, like planking today. "Ohh, just minding my own business, defying gravity..."

Anonymous patrick kelly July 23, 2012 1:29 PM  

"...in a direct line away from the window." then "The back of Kennedy's skull sure as hell blew off!.."

doh, small problem causing healthy skepticism about the official story.

"The argument that Oswald couldn't have made the shot (actually one out of three shots)"

Who made that argument? Did you miss the "*all*" in my comment?

"And witnesses on the street below saw a man fitting Oswald's description standing in the window just before the motorcade turned the corner in front of the building."

Was this the only witness and statement made that day? (Hint, just start googling about this stuff, and go down the rabbit hole, it's long and dark. Or you could just keep eating blue pills and don't worry be happy.

"The 70's congressional finding that there was a second shooter was based on a tape recording that turned out not to have been made at the time of the assasination."

Yeah, that was the only thing mentioned in the whole report, not.

"It has about as much credibility as anything else congress comes up with."

Like the Warren Commission?

Anonymous Koanic July 23, 2012 1:48 PM  

Much as I enjoyed the wrath trilogy, the demonic model of Thal spree shooting doesn't make sense to me anymore. I see it more like what Fedor Emelianenko does in the ring. Oppression and suggestion maybe, but not full on possession, even in the act.

Where the demonic enters into it, I think, is with the sadistic or sexual psychopathic serial killers, or the ones heavy into drugs and the occult. Like, say, the Manson family, or the face eater.

Blogger IM2L844 July 23, 2012 1:51 PM  

Some people seem to be raging anti-conspiracy enthusiasts who wield the threadbare "debunked" sobriquet as if it is some kind of powerfully meaningful ratiocination with the ability to end all discussion on the matter. Those types will usually ignore the fact that, in many cases, the debunking has, itself, been debunked.

In the end, I think it's mostly a wash. My worldview insists there is a vast and ongoing conspiracy. It's just not masterminded in the way most people think of a conspiracy theory.

I believe there is a master manipulator working behind the scenes, who for centuries has been using every trick of temptation via all the various combinations of pride, greed and lust to set up his rebellious alternative kingdom on earth.

Since he must do this in the framework of the current events of the times, what may appear as vast man made conspiracies may also lack the decisive direct connections required to make them indisputable.

Anonymous Koanic July 23, 2012 1:52 PM  

What's really needed is a viable escape. These Thals generally don't want to kill, excepting guys like Brevik and the Unabomber with an ideological axe to grind. If they had an out, like wandering off into the wilderness or some kind of monastic existence or similar community, that would bleed off a lot of the pressure that otherwise erupts in occasional killings, more frequent suicides, etc.

One of the great things about America when it still had a frontier was that you could easily do that.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler July 23, 2012 1:54 PM  

My memory is faulty, sixth floor instead of eighth and there was scope on the rifle. If you read the Wikipedia article on the gun, the gun sight couldn't have been effective since:
The rifle couldn't be "sighted-in" using the scope without installing two metal shims (small metal plates), which were not present when the rifle arrived for testing, and were never found. (from JFK assination rifle)

The article also talks about his shooting skills which are conflicting.

Anonymous Razoraid July 23, 2012 2:00 PM  

Thanks for the interesting read everyone. The only comment I know to make is I can't help but think of horrific tragedies the victims have suffered, the deaths, and esp that of the little girl. It is sickening and incomprehensible to me how someone could do this. Prayers to the victims and families. The killer deserves none of my time and emotion. Bottom line he is a cowardly murderer.

Anonymous Josh July 23, 2012 2:07 PM  

If they had an out, like wandering off into the wilderness or some kind of monastic existence or similar community, that would bleed off a lot of the pressure that otherwise erupts in occasional killings, more frequent suicides, etc.

Or they could just...I don't know...not shoot up crowded public spaces...

Anonymous PM July 23, 2012 2:14 PM  

IML844:

Reading the Stones lyrics for "Sympahty for the Devil" in that context is downright chilling. Especially the murder of the Tsar and his family, with the subsequent rise of the bolsheviks.

Anonymous dh July 23, 2012 2:54 PM  

I am not sure if he acted alone, I am not sure if he didn't. But the type of gear he was wearing takes special permits to aquire (I can by the vests, I can't buy the trama plates, not to mention tear gas). With the records being sealed, we may never know.

I don't think this is accurate. As far as I can tell there are no restrictions in any states on body armor, plates, or other components except for felony conviction.

Blogger James Higham July 23, 2012 3:06 PM  

Really worries me that this has something to do with gun control. Manchurian, anyone?

Anonymous HH July 23, 2012 3:08 PM  

VD says .."I already addressed that. It doesn't explain how the witness missed a) his bright red hair, and b) the fact that he was dressed head-to-toe in black assault armor."


Maybe:

(1) The lighting in theaters often is non-natural, especially in the front row where you get a red glow form the exit lights --so it is hard to detect actual hair color.. especially reds-blonds.
(2) Colored hair is not so strange or unusual that it would be noticed in this crowd -- especially at a Batman premier -- nor are black clothes either... --- I remember when I had to drive my daughters to one of those vampire teen movies for the premier -- many of the patrons, as well as much of the staff were dressed in character.

We haven't gotten the whole story on the body armor yet either - or whether it was actual body armor or some type of ballistic tactical vest ... you can buy the holders but the plates and pads are normally not for sale to non LEO but again .. it was the batman movie premier so all sorts of strange batman inspired dress is to be expected.

Conspiracy --- doesn't seem to make sense here especially at this time .. Obama needs to look at least neutral on gun control . My vote is for crazy...

Anonymous a bystander July 23, 2012 3:24 PM  

Re: Historical photographes being "skewed" - some old cameras had "guillotine" shutters which dropped from top to bottom; and some later cameras had mechanical irises that closed top to bottom. If you have ever seen a very old foto of a car in motion that appeared as if the tires were slanted, it was taken with such a shutter. Part of the image was taken at one point in time, another part a point in time later; thus yielding this effect. ..Though I don't understand how this would affect the static shot someone put a link up to.

Anonymous Buck Swamp July 23, 2012 3:35 PM  

Government is by it's nature an incompetent enterprise. The absence of proof is not proof. If there are more than two or three witnesses to any event, it is likely that some of the witnesses will disagree about some aspects of the event. Reality is often untidy.

Anonymous DonReynolds July 23, 2012 3:39 PM  

What must be clear from this event is the fact that no one in the theater or either adjacent theater had a concealed carry on their belt. In Colorado, it would seem strange to find hundreds of people with no firearm, except that the theater itself has it's own private gun control regulation, which forbids any firearms in the building, even with a lawful permit. Had anyone in the theater had a concealed carry, this shooter would have been stopped. Much is being made about the AR-15 "assault rifle", which is the one that jammed on the shooter, rendering the 100 round magazine worthless. (This is a common problem with this rifle, especially when using weird magazines. Yes, 100 round drums are weird.) Nothing is mentioned about the fact that the real weapon was the shotgun, which probably had no more than 5 rounds. The Liberal media has puked so much the past few days about the need to have more gun control that it no longer matters. Once you being to stink, more stink is hardly the problem.

Clearly, the theater shooting proves that MORE gun control...such as the total ban by the theater chain....is not what this country needs. Many of the callers were women, mostly saying "we just need to be nice to each other." Which only reminds me....an armed society is a polite society.

Anonymous paradox July 23, 2012 3:39 PM  

Wheeler may find this information interesting.

Anonymous Todd July 23, 2012 3:44 PM  

John was suppose to off himself so he would be the 13th.

Why do these massacres seem to always be 13 killed?

Columbine 13 (12 students 1 teacher)
Ft Hood 13 people killed

Blogger Giraffe July 23, 2012 3:58 PM  

.. it was the batman movie premier so all sorts of strange batman inspired dress is to be expected.

The guy supposedly left and came back an hour later, so while that may not be enough time to dye his hair, it would be plenty of time to put on body armor.

Anonymous cherub's revenge July 23, 2012 4:30 PM  

Why would you need to sneak in the back door when you have an AR? Expecting some stiff resistance from the chick at the popcorn stand and the pimple faced ticket taker?

Anonymous Noah B. July 23, 2012 5:18 PM  

"Why do these massacres seem to always be 13 killed?"

I don't know, but whatever the reason, it's probably the same reason that "Catcher In The Rye" seems to be the universal favorite book of lone gunmen everywhere.

Blogger Markku July 23, 2012 6:00 PM  

Though I don't understand how this would affect the static shot someone put a link up to.

All the grandmother's photos that I see the effect in, are completely static.

Anonymous Kriston July 23, 2012 6:20 PM  

It might be an artifact of moving the camera slightly while pressing the shutter release. Some of the mechanical releases required a small bit of force.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 23, 2012 10:38 PM  

Much has been made of the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) scored as a Marksman on his qualification tests in the Marines:

Like all Marines, Oswald was trained and tested in shooting, scoring 212 in December 1956[14] (slightly above the minimum for qualification as a sharpshooter) but in May 1959 scoring only 191[14] (barely earning the lower designation of marksman).[27]


And yet, he had to qualify as a Marksman to remain in the Marines, and he had come in seventh out of thirty (top 25%) of his class as a radar operator.

What to do? I imagine that the locals were under pressure to pass him. Of course, I can't prove that, but the statement of Nelson Delgado suggests that things were not as they would seem:


However, Nelson Delgado, a Marine in the same unit as Oswald, used to laugh at Oswald's shooting prowess and testified that Oswald often got "Maggie's drawers"; meaning a red flag that is waved from the rifle pits to indicate a complete miss of the target during qualification firing. He also said that Oswald did not seem to care if he missed or not.[62] Delgado was first stationed with Oswald in Santa Ana, California at the beginning of 1958 meeting him for the first time there and a little more than a year after Oswald first made sharpshooter.[63]


I suspect, but can't prove, that since LHO scored so highly on his Radar Operators course, the locals were under pressure not to drum him out of the Marines for a little thing like shooting skills. It also suggests that LHO knew that as well.

I don't have any problem with an expert marksman being able to use a rifle like the Marcano with an un-sighted-in scope at the distances and shooting from an elevated position at a target that was moving away at those distances.

However, I am skeptical that Oswald could have managed it and the fact that Jack Ruby cleaned up the mess afterwards suggests that someone else pulled the trigger on the fatal bullets. Who that someone else might have been is open for discussion. There are lots of candidates.

It is also curious that the police who found the rifle misidentified it as a Mauser. Surely it was simply a matter of reading it off the rifle. It should also be noted that there is a significant difference between the Mauser bolt and the Carcano bolt, but that difference is likely lost on those who claim that LHO was a conspiracy of one.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 23, 2012 10:56 PM  

Mother disputes that she implicated her son

(Yes, and I saw the part where the mother's lawyer released the statement after allegedly checking if there was a recording of the conversation.)

Anonymous Koanic July 24, 2012 1:40 AM  

Vox's multi-person theory is looking a whole lot better now. There are two people apparently still oddly missing, with connection to the shooting.

"Neighbors say the person of interest and his roommate left their home hours before the massacre and they haven’t seen him since."

http://www.inquisitr.com/282268/second-suspect-police-seek-second-person-of-interest-in-colorado-shooting/

Anonymous Koanic July 24, 2012 1:53 AM  

This guy has been studying identity, psychology and reality tampering for quite some time. Which further supports the deliberate insanity hypothesis.

Him attempting to slip away, not cooperating after capture, a threat demanding his release by a person(s) still missing... his Joker game could be longer than we thought.

Maybe it was never intended to be a spree.

I have a feeling this may turn out to be one of the most interesting mass killers of all time. Thank goodness, the Asian schtick was getting really old.

Maybe he really did think he could bend reality, and that the comic book stuff would work. The impossible to disarm bomb. The SWAT disguised getaway. Makes one wonder what step 2 was.

Anonymous Koanic July 24, 2012 1:58 AM  

If that's the case, then James Holmes really is a comic book villain!

He's a brilliant but misunderstood scientist who, when denied the opportunity to continue his life's work, uses it to turn himself into a monster!!!

W.T.F.

Anonymous Spedly July 24, 2012 3:15 AM  

What ta fuck are you talking about, Koanic. The guy was an evil fuck. Why are you reading so much into this? Who cares?

Anonymous Ulmer Miller July 24, 2012 4:26 AM  

Could've just paid for it all with credit cards! He was until recently a student and they tend to have a couple of those, right? Anyway, these sorts of shootings come up right around election time so I'm not ruling out false flag here. I am interested to find out what he may have been involved in as a student at university--experiment-wise, that is.

Blogger AdognamedOp July 24, 2012 4:43 AM  

If this truly was a false flag op, why didn't they just use an Iranian protagonist? After all, war against a dangerous nuke seeking regime would likely give Obama a better chance at re-election (while satisfying the neocon sect).
The mass shooting spree script is old and has only led to increased gun sales.

Anonymous Koanic July 24, 2012 5:06 AM  

We all have our idiosyncratic interests.

Colorado shooter turned down 3 times before rampage

Another for the Game angle.

Anonymous Koanic July 24, 2012 5:21 AM  

And a Match.com profile.

Dude was internet pipelining. Shoulda expatriated.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 24, 2012 9:32 AM  


If this truly was a false flag op, why didn't they just use an Iranian protagonist? After all, war against a dangerous nuke seeking regime would likely give Obama a better chance at re-election (while satisfying the neocon sect).


That is a good question. The answer may be that the political classes really want to disarm the US populace for their own protection and they do not care whether they do it under Obama or Romney.

I think it is just as likely that Romney will move to restrict gun ownership further.

Anonymous Buck Swamp July 24, 2012 10:25 AM  

The Other Skeptic,

You keep fixating on the fact that Oswald only scored 'marksman', which was the lowest qualifying score. This might be important if the shots from the sixth floor were truly difficult. But they were relatively easy shots.
Oswald wasn't a great shot (neither was the Kennedy assasin, who only scored one hit to the head out of three shots) but like all Marines, Oswald knew his way around a rifle. And you yourself admitted in an earlier comment that he used the assasination weapon to try and shoot General Walker a few weeks earlier (at night, through a window).

You also accuse me of being close-minded about the possibility of a conspiracy, but the truth is that I used to be on the same side you are. But after reading the 'Warren Commission Report' a half-dozen times (particularly the testimony of eye witnesses), and reading several other excellent books on the subject, I am now thoroughly convinced that Oswald was the lone gunmen, and Ruby was a 'nut' who loved to involve himself in big events.

Under the circumstances of the Kennedy assasination, a conspiracy is just not supported by the facts or simple logic.

Blogger Markku July 24, 2012 10:41 AM  

It might be an artifact of moving the camera slightly while pressing the shutter release. Some of the mechanical releases required a small bit of force.

Then I would expect an even distribution of skew to the left and to the right, but it is always to the left. In the camera movement hypothesis, the only thing I can think of that might explain it, is if there is a component moving horizontally in the camera when you shoot it, which moves the center of mass and if you are not holding it firmly, the camera moves always in the same direction.

But if I understand the shutter argument correctly, the race car effect can only happen in cameras with VERTICAL shutter movement.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 24, 2012 10:56 AM  


You keep fixating on the fact that Oswald only scored 'marksman', which was the lowest qualifying score. This might be important if the shots from the sixth floor were truly difficult. But they were relatively easy shots.


From where I stand, it seems to be you who is fixated on how he was a good shot and the shot from the sixth floor was easy.

Have you ever done it? Have you actually gone to the range and tried to take a bench-rest shot at approximately 80 yards and level shooting. Then, have you tried shooting at a moving target? Even one that is moving away from you is still changing, and there seems to be no evidence that Oswald had any real experience with that rifle, and from my experience, when I stay away from the range for several months my skills deteriorate.

What I am suggesting is that were reasons that Oswald's score was boosted to keep him in the Marines because of his score on the radar operators course. That is, he was not even a marksman.

And the fact that one of the commissions proved that expert marksmen (with lots of experience with rifles) could take that shot in something like the same time frame suggests to me that it was an expert marksman who took the real shot.

And so what that Oswald took a shot at Walker with the Carcano. I think it is possible, based on the confusion about whether or not the rifle found in the Book Depository was a Mauser or a Carcano, that the actual weapon used was a Mauser. Anyone who has seen a Mauser, in my opinion, because of the distinctive bolt on a Mauser, would not mistake a Carcano for a Mauser. Also, Oswald demonstrated that he was not someone who could see things through. He defected to Russia, but then got cold feet and came back to the US when the going got rough. He got out of the Marines when the going got rough.

It is also suspicious in my mind that a 6.5mm bullet was found on the gurney that the governor's body had been placed on. At those distances, that round would have gone through the body, in my opinion, not be precariously lodged in the body so that it can conveniently fall out onto the gurney to be found and confirm that fatal rounds were from a 6.5mm bullet and not a 7.92mm bullet.

Anonymous Buck Swamp July 24, 2012 11:19 AM  

The Other Skeptic,

Yes, I was an Air Force SP during Viet Nam. I qualified at the range ever six months with an M-16. I took a weapons training course at Lackland before going to Southeast Asia. I've qualified with revolvers, shotguns, carbines, the M-16 type machine gun, grenade launchers, 50-calibers, LAW, and all that. Like Oswald, I wasn't a great shot, but I knew my way around a weapon.

So what?

Oswald was a strange dude. He was raised by a single mother who was frankly crazy. He did a lot of strange things, including defecting to Russia for awhile after he got out of the Marines, and marrying a Russian girl who barely spoke English. Oswald always believed he was a lot smarter than he really was, and always wanted to make a name for himself. He didn't even particularly dislike Kennedy, except for his Cuba policies. Oswald died when he was only 23 or 24. His was a short, unhappy life.

But then, all of our presidential assasins were misfits.

Only one (Booth) did not act alone.

Anonymous Anonymous July 24, 2012 2:46 PM  

http://www.infowars.com/shooter-james-holmes-and-darpa-weird-science/

Blogger samuelson76 November 11, 2012 9:59 AM  

Anyhow the speculations.first, everyone can be a good person without any kind of gods.starying by the fact that there were more than 2 thousands gods until coming up the the actual ones and the prophet Jesus or who ever! The ban of guns and the increasing violence forget also get important social and economic issues. look at other countries like sweden Norway, Denmark, nethearlands, Austria, Switzerland .... No matter the facts guns or any guns, there're no more violence! But there are some young people that over react and take an arm and shoot around ... because there were guns at home , every could get a gun easily! Therefore were even military purposes guns banned from all homes. since then all these cases of firearming at schools, theaters on the street went back!

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