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Monday, August 06, 2012

A pattern emerges

The Sikh temple shooter is nominally identified:
Authorities tell CBS News that the shooter behind the deadly massacre at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin Sunday has been identified as 40-year-old Wade Michael Page. Page previously served in the U.S. military, but was no longer on active duty, sources tell CBS News.

CBS News reports that Page enlisted in the Army in April 1992 and was given a less-than-honorable discharge in October 1998. He was last stationed in Fort Bragg, N.C., serving in the psychological operations unit.
Another shooting, another link to military psychology. Pure coincidence, I'm sure. I wonder how many more it will take before the Obama administration realizes that it doesn't matter how many shootings take place, the American public isn't going to accept gun control.

Labels:

100 Comments:

Blogger Shimshon August 06, 2012 10:41 AM  

Vox, my first reaction upon reading this yesterday was, "Sikhs?"

Yes, I know about Sikhs, but despite some rednecks confusing them with Muslims, I find them a very unlikely target for anyone, except for government goons hell-bent on gun confiscation and pissed that Aurora didn't have the same effect as Dunblane in the UK (my second reaction).

Government connection to shooters is like race. The media simply ignores it.

Anonymous Josh August 06, 2012 10:43 AM  

Obviously the problem is sikh temples. We need to eliminate sikh temples so that they no longer attract mass killings.

Anonymous harry12 August 06, 2012 10:47 AM  

The first Sikh-shooting, news item I saw, ID'd the shooter as an "un-named white man".

A necessary distinction?

Anonymous JartStar August 06, 2012 10:49 AM  

I go with the double secret government conspiracy myself. The administration is actually in bed with gun and ammo manufactures. They set up the shootings, talk about gun legislation they have no chance of passing, and it causes people to load up on guns and ammo.

Anonymous Other Josh August 06, 2012 10:50 AM  

False Flag... and a poorly orchestrated one at that. Infowars has a story that, once again, eyewitnesses speak of multiple shooters - not a lone gunmen.

Our government has become so inept, they're not even good at being corrupt anymore.

Anonymous Anonymous August 06, 2012 10:50 AM  

Lest we forget the instant catch-all proclamation of "domestic terrorism". Unlike, say....Ft. Hood.

CaptDMO

Anonymous Josh August 06, 2012 10:51 AM  

When cops shoot grandma in a warrantless no knock raid, isn't that also domestic terrorism?

Anonymous III August 06, 2012 10:54 AM  

CaptDMO:

"homegrown extremist"

Anonymous The other skeptic August 06, 2012 10:56 AM  

I think the Administration should target a day-care center or maybe a gay bar next time if it wants to scare female voters to vote for them.

Anonymous Ras Al Ghul August 06, 2012 10:59 AM  

"Infowars has a story that, once again, eyewitnesses speak of multiple shooters - not a lone gunmen."

That and witnesses saw a car speeding off after dropping the "shooters" off.

Eyewitnesses are inherently unreliable (despite the government relying on them to convict people all the time because people tend to believe eyewitnesses) but still.

Anonymous Holla August 06, 2012 11:00 AM  

The only explanation for leaking the "military psychology" angle on an otherwise invisible man is that it's meant to feed conspiracy theories leading to greater polarization and eventual civil war. Or something.

They should go back to having Tom Clancy write these things for them.

Aaron Sorkin is doing a terrible job.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 August 06, 2012 11:04 AM  

Eyewitnesses are inherently unreliable

Yes, when it is just one. But when you have two or three unrelated, independent eyewitnesses who report the same thing, then you have a case. Remember, God required that men be put to death only on account of two or three reliable witnesses.

And non-eyewitness evidence can be just as messy.

Anonymous Salt August 06, 2012 11:05 AM  

This whole affair is just sikh.

Anonymous paradox August 06, 2012 11:09 AM  

I read that he used a 9mm pistol. Maybe I'm wrong, but that sounds uncharacteristic of a Vet. You would think a Vet would use a rifle and not a 9mm pistol. If a Vet did use a pistol, my first thought would be a 45 acp or 40 S&W not a 9mm.

Anonymous Orion August 06, 2012 11:17 AM  

Upon first hearing it, I actually thought there would be a Muslim doing the shooting. If you know the Punjab's history you know why. Of course considering the area's relation with the Indian central government, Hindus couldn't be ruled out.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 06, 2012 11:38 AM  

If a Vet did use a pistol, my first thought would be a 45 acp or 40 S&W not a 9mm.

Why? I thought that the military has been using 9mm for a while now and has only just switched back to .45.

Blogger Bob August 06, 2012 11:41 AM  

"I think the Administration should target a day-care center or maybe a gay bar next time if it wants to scare female voters to vote for them.'

GOOD GRIEF:

Don't be giving them any new ideas!

You'll be able to count the days...

Anonymous The other skeptic August 06, 2012 11:43 AM  

The US Military Handgun since 1985 or so.

Anonymous Sojourner August 06, 2012 11:48 AM  

Yea this is all getting a little strange now.

Anonymous Koanic August 06, 2012 11:58 AM  

I agree there's a decent chance this is a false flag. This guy could've gone straight from military to WN govt asset.

On the other hand maybe it's a hurried suicide by cop. There are few signs of extensive intelligent planning and selection. Sikhs are pretty low on the WN target list.

The kill count's too low for a 4 man team, one would think.

Also, now that I've read a firsthand account from an omega pure Thal of possession, I have to say that I was wrong to doubt that it was a factor in the Holmes and Columbine killings, and wrong to criticize Vox's fictional account of it. I just didn't understand how it works, psychologically. But it's the seduction of becoming powerful and invincible in one's inner life. Holmes seems like he might've been coming out of that.

Demons seem to like to hitch rides on those so beaten down they're willing to embrace darkness to find inner strength. I don't think Holmes' ex air force acupuncturist psychologist had enough access to him to guide him to shoot up that theater, but I perfectly understand how "the Joker" would have.

Anonymous paradox August 06, 2012 12:16 PM  

The other skeptic August 06, 2012 11:38 AM

Why? I thought that the military has been using 9mm for a while now and has only just switched back to .45.



Every Vet I've met is not fond of the 9mm round and would rather have the larger caliber 45 or 40.

The Marines are going to the new Colt 1911 Rail Gun, I actually have one and love mine.

Blogger WATYF August 06, 2012 12:31 PM  

paradox said: I read that he used a 9mm pistol. Maybe I'm wrong, but that sounds uncharacteristic of a Vet. You would think a Vet would use a rifle and not a 9mm pistol. If a Vet did use a pistol, my first thought would be a 45 acp or 40 S&W not a 9mm.

Well that's all the proof we need. This is OBVIOUSLY a government cover-up because everyone knows that 9mm's don't have any stopping power and aren't effective. Clearly, if he really WAS using a 9mm, no one would have died. :Op

WATYF

Blogger WATYF August 06, 2012 12:38 PM  

The US Military Handgun since 1985 or so.

Exactly. This is precisely what would have been in use in the military when he was enlisted. His choice of weapon is not the least bit "surprising" or "odd".

WATYF

Anonymous A.Handle August 06, 2012 12:54 PM  

"CBS News correspondent Ben Tracy reports Page is only believed to have lived at the residence for two weeks, according to neighbors.


Suspect Lived on Holmes Avenue"

Anonymous Stilicho August 06, 2012 1:10 PM  

When cops shoot grandma in a warrantless no knock raid, isn't that also domestic terrorism?

Bitch had it coming.

Anonymous paradox August 06, 2012 1:15 PM  

WATYF August 06, 2012 12:31 PM

Well that's all the proof we need. This is OBVIOUSLY a government cover-up because everyone knows that 9mm's don't have any stopping power and aren't effective. Clearly, if he really WAS using a 9mm, no one would have died. :Op


Dear lord, you must have reading comprehension problems or just assume shit. When did I say that proved a false flag event? At best it describes the mind set of the Vet, in that he didn't pre-plan any of it. He done it spontaneously and not methodically.

Anonymous realmatt August 06, 2012 1:17 PM  

..the American public isn't going to accept gun control.

One can only hope they'll get tired of the Browning of their communities as well.

Anonymous Anonymous August 06, 2012 1:17 PM  

AAAH, the liberal field day is upon us! May the law of unintended consequences bite softly.....mthead

Anonymous duckman August 06, 2012 1:17 PM  

Josh August 06, 2012 10:51 AM

When cops shoot grandma in a warrantless no knock raid, isn't that also domestic terrorism?


They're going to tap your phones for that. And you may want to consider moving...

Anonymous Stickwick August 06, 2012 1:27 PM  

You would think a Vet would use a rifle and not a 9mm pistol.

I asked my husband about this, and he said only a n00b would use a rifle to commit a mass shooting in an enclosed environment. Apparently, any combat vet knows that a rifle is the least effective weapon in this scenario. (The high-capacity drum magazine that Joker-whatsisname used in CO was another major n00b mistake. Hubby says those are strictly novelty items and are known by experienced rifle shooters to misfeed like crazy.) Your #1 bet for a shooting spree in an enclosed environment is a shotgun, followed by a handgun. For all the bad rap it gets, the 9mm is not an ineffective caliber, either.

Anonymous JartStar August 06, 2012 1:32 PM  

For all the bad rap it gets, the 9mm is not an ineffective caliber, either.

For how often it is bad mouthed here one would think it bounced off from people.

Anonymous HH August 06, 2012 1:33 PM  

Well .. be prepared for more of this sort of stuff.. after two wars (Iraq, Afghanistan) we have a whole generation of young men who have seen/experienced a lot of horrible stuff ... it doesn't take a government conspiracy to make this stuff happen, just neglect. Theres enough of blame to go around for both republicans and democrats.

Pray for all...

Anonymous Noah B. August 06, 2012 1:36 PM  

"I asked my husband about this, and he said only a n00b would use a rifle to commit a mass shooting in an enclosed environment."

Must strongly disagree. He's right about the shotgun and the unreliability of many (but not all) drums, but the vast majority of pistols don't come close to a .30 caliber rifle's stopping power, especially with soft points.

Anonymous Noah B. August 06, 2012 1:43 PM  

"Yes, I know about Sikhs, but despite some rednecks confusing them with Muslims, I find them a very unlikely target for anyone, except for government goons hell-bent on gun confiscation and pissed that Aurora didn't have the same effect as Dunblane in the UK (my second reaction)."

The Sikhs I know are very peaceful, easygoing, live-and-let-live types. Not the sort of people with a lot of enemies. I was really skeptical of the Aurora shooting being a false flag op, but this is looking like it really could be. It's worth repeating that this regime openly admits to murdering American citizens. In Wisconsin, they're just breaking some more eggs.

Anonymous paradox August 06, 2012 1:47 PM  

Stickwick August 06, 2012 1:27 PM

I asked my husband about this, and he said only a n00b would use a rifle to commit a mass shooting in an enclosed environment.


Difference of opinion I guess, because my Marine friend said he would favor a rifle, but it would just depend.

Anonymous Trayvon August 06, 2012 1:49 PM  

'Dem 9mm be's suckin!

Blogger Markku August 06, 2012 2:26 PM  

Must strongly disagree. He's right about the shotgun and the unreliability of many (but not all) drums, but the vast majority of pistols don't come close to a .30 caliber rifle's stopping power, especially with soft points.

In that environment where you don't expect armed resistance running at you, it is more important that you can point the gun quickly at movement that you see in the corner of your eye. Who cares if you occasionally need to fire a second round to finish the job?

Blogger Professor Hale August 06, 2012 2:26 PM  

The only hereditary enemies Sihks have are... moslems.

The most likely aspect influencing the choice of handgun caiber for this shooter was, "what was on sale at Gander Mountan that week". There are plenty to choose from and everyone has their personal favs. most of their favs are based on nothing more than mythology and compensation for personal inadequacy in other areas.

There is no relationship between Psychological operations (printing cartoon books teaching kids to stay out of minefields) and The psychology/psychiatry department at the hospital. you would have a better coorelation comparing the amount of change they had in their pockets and be just as valid.

Anonymous HK August 06, 2012 2:41 PM  

"I asked my husband about this, and he said only a n00b would use a rifle to commit a mass shooting in an enclosed environment. Apparently, any combat vet knows that a rifle is the least effective weapon in this scenario."

"Difference of opinion I guess, because my Marine friend said he would favor a rifle, but it would just depend."

Every marine a rifleman :) but I think the problem is terminology. Certainly an M14 or M16, or even a M500 might be too long to use inside, the US military has both carbines (.. M4 carbine) and submachine guns (..MP5/7 etc) that are issued for such situations (technically I guess rifles) and often in place of the M9 (9mm pistol) ... I bet the real driver is it is simply easier to get a 9mm pistol, and easier to conceal... can't go walking through a parking lot with a full size battle rifle without raising suspicions.

Blogger Baloo August 06, 2012 2:48 PM  

Yes, psyops is a lot less sinister than it sounds. My take on this here:
http://ex-army.blogspot.com/2012/08/sikh-temple-massacre-and-white-supremacy.html

Anonymous JI August 06, 2012 2:49 PM  

Are you serious Vox? What evidence do you have that the government is staging these shootings? This is tin-foil hat territory, Vox.

Anonymous FP August 06, 2012 2:54 PM  

On the conspiracy front, we've had shootings in Colorado and Wisconsin so far. Nevada, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida up next? You could toss in Florida with the Martin/Zimmerman deal I suppose, the aftermath anyway.

Anonymous Salt August 06, 2012 2:58 PM  

Are you serious Vox? What evidence do you have that the government is staging these shootings? This is tin-foil hat territory, Vox.

Well, there is this. Now, why would anyone want to experiment in such ways? There's also Operation Northwoods.

Not like it hasn't been contemplated before.

Anonymous Noah B. August 06, 2012 2:59 PM  

It's tin foil hat territory to think that a regime that openly admits killing American citizens without a trial would kill American citizens without a trial? OK.

Anonymous JartStar August 06, 2012 3:03 PM  

Are you serious Vox? What evidence do you have that the government is staging these shootings? This is tin-foil hat territory, Vox.


Apparently the administration is clever enough to hide a robo-killer brainwashing agency along with any substantial evidence of a false flag operation, but too stupid to realize that it will backfire. I find it hard to believe that a lazy, golf playing president would put his reputation and power at risk with the events.

Anonymous Outlaww X August 06, 2012 3:23 PM  

JI, It's not tin foil.

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Operation_Northwoods

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 06, 2012 3:38 PM  

Both the $PLC and the Ministry of Truth were immediately on the case about the complexion of the shooter and the "domestic terr-rr-rr-ist" angle. Dead skunk in the middle of the road, stinkin' to high heaven.

Blogger RobertT August 06, 2012 3:45 PM  

"Are you serious Vox?"

I don't think VD is suggesting Obama and company are staging these shootings. But, they're not bashful about using them as impetus for gun control.

Anonymous Athor Pel August 06, 2012 3:52 PM  

" Noah B. August 06, 2012 2:59 PM

It's tin foil hat territory to think that a regime that openly admits killing American citizens without a trial would kill American citizens without a trial? OK."



The CIA project files on this stuff have been declassified for years now. They admit to using brainwashing techniques in order to create politically useful assassins. I mean, there have been senate hearings on it.

Google is your friend. Just because you don't think people are capable of stooping that low because you won't doesn't mean they won't or don't.

Here are some search terms.

MK-Ultra
monarch programming

Go learn something and stop living such a sheltered life.

Blogger Galt-in-Da-Box August 06, 2012 3:58 PM  

Instead of gun control, how about NUT CONTROL:
Start putting these devil-spirit posessed sonsofbitches away in nice, safe rubber rooms like we used to, instead of letting them roam wild and free on the virtual tether of meds they can too easily forget to take.
Do we need to say much more than Jeffrey Dalmer to broach the topic of Ritalin babies?

Anonymous Noah B. August 06, 2012 4:02 PM  

@Athor

You should sharpen up those reading comprehension skills instead of wasting your time shadow boxing.

Anonymous Athor Pel August 06, 2012 4:02 PM  

Sorry Noah. I should have pointed my reply at JI.

Anonymous Noah B. August 06, 2012 4:13 PM  

No problem, I just don't want to get labeled as a conspiracy denier around here.

Anonymous HH August 06, 2012 4:15 PM  

"Instead of gun control, how about NUT CONTROL" ...

That is exactly right... even the most fervent gun rights guy would agree that crazy people shouldn't have guns .. the only risk is who gets to define whats crazy.

Anonymous Clay August 06, 2012 4:26 PM  

Noah B. August 06, 2012 4:13 PM No problem, I just don't want to get labeled as a conspiracy denier around here.



They're out to get you, Noah B.

Anonymous mjb August 06, 2012 4:27 PM  

Crazy guy is a white racist nut. That's all. No government conspiracy. Alex Jones would say you all drank too much fluoridated water.

Blogger James Dixon August 06, 2012 4:27 PM  

> Your #1 bet for a shooting spree in an enclosed environment is a shotgun,...

Bingo.

> For how often it is bad mouthed here one would think it bounced off from people.

No, that's at 22. Which isn't as bad as claimed by some here either.

Blogger Rahul August 06, 2012 4:29 PM  

Vox is listening to Alex Jones these days.

Anonymous JartStar August 06, 2012 4:39 PM  

The brainwashing has now extended to women! Six had minor injuries, she obviously was using a .22

Blogger LP 999/Eliza August 06, 2012 4:59 PM  

So much of pop culture and what everyone is exposed is monarch programming but placing that aside.

See my chemical romance's destroya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB7Ev6cVKmM

There are so many strange aspects: this time the shooter is killed on the spot. Did he have a message for the court system if he lived? Even stranger is the use of the 9mm for an ex-military man. Also strange is the timing...

Either way, the narrative was in place a few years ago and has come to complete ruinous fruition. The regular American is the new terrrrorist to fear...

OpenID swannythesconnie August 06, 2012 5:26 PM  

Weirdest thing to me is how quick they labelled it "domestic terrorism." That was a quick assessment and they basically declared it right away I believe.

Anonymous Stickwick August 06, 2012 5:35 PM  

... but the vast majority of pistols don't come close to a .30 caliber rifle's stopping power, especially with soft points.

As Markku pointed out, it's not about stopping power. This isn't sniping from a distance. It's about what's easy to maneuver and discharge in a confined space.

Difference of opinion I guess, because my Marine friend said he would favor a rifle, but it would just depend.

Marines are riflemen forever, God bless them. :^) My husband is former spec ops and a veteran of close-quarters urban combat. In this situation, he said the main weapon is always a shotgun, followed by a sidearm. He said he would not use a rifle in that situation unless he had nothing else.

After talking to hubby about this, I'm thinking one test for the false flag scenario is the "professionalism" of the shooter. A trained and/or experienced close-quarters combat shooter wouldn't make the sorts of mistakes many mass shooters commit. I guess one retort would be that perhaps these guys were deliberately chosen because they would look n00bish enough that no one would suspect they were part of a government conspiracy.

Anonymous VD August 06, 2012 5:37 PM  

Vox is listening to Alex Jones these days.

No, not so much. Not at all, actually.

Blogger Hoomby August 06, 2012 5:49 PM  

Waste of resources. I was stationed with the 6th PSYOP BN from 84 - 87. Underfunded, mission less and certainly not part of a conspiracy. Focus on the less than honorable. May point to mental issues, I'm thinking.

Anonymous Anonymous August 06, 2012 5:51 PM  

notice how when a non-white guy does something it is always "let's not jump to conclusions" and "we don't know what motivated the attacker". but in this case it's "yeah he's white. what? the racist attacker- oh yeah, he's white. did we mention that the evil racist/fascist/sexist/ageist/ableist/fill-in-the-blank-ist white attacker was white? if not, let's mention that the evil white attacker is white."

Anonymous Noah B. August 06, 2012 5:56 PM  

In contrast, how long did it take them to declare the shooting at Fort Hood by a radical muslim to be domestic terrorism? Or is it still considered an unfortunate cultural misunderstanding?

Anonymous Buckeyecopperhead August 06, 2012 6:14 PM  

Found it curious that the SPLC (Stupid Progressive Liberal C&cksuckers) claimed it had been tracking this guy for years. As the SPLC is not an "official" law enforcement agency (though it believes it is) wouldn't this qualify as stalking and/or invasion of privacy, especially as this guy was not a public official?
That being said, if the SPLC sought to prevent white supremacists from going on rampages against helpless minorities, it failed. Miserably.

Anonymous No_Limit_Bubba™ August 06, 2012 6:47 PM  

Definition time:

White attempts/commits mass murder of whites (that Holmes joker) = lone nut.

White attempts/commits mass murder of non-whites = domestic terrorist.

Muslim attempts/commits mass murder of whites, in the US = lone nut.

Muslim attacks whites occupying Muslim lands=terrorist/insurgent.

Black(s) attack anyone in US = *crickets chirping*

Anonymous Stickwick August 06, 2012 6:57 PM  

Black(s) attack anyone in US = *crickets chirping*

Are there black mass murderers in the U.S.? Not serial killers, or thugs who manage to kill a handful of people in the process of a robbery, but someone comparable to Holmes or Hasan? Maybe the media ignore them, but I don't recall ever hearing about any black mass murderers.

Anonymous Outlaw X August 06, 2012 7:42 PM  

Rahul- Vox is listening to Alex Jones these days.


What do yo listen to, MSM?

Nothing wrong with AJ he is right 90%+ of the time.

Anonymous Noah B. August 06, 2012 7:51 PM  

"Maybe the media ignore them, but I don't recall ever hearing about any black mass murderers."

I only remember one. There was a guy in Missouri who was getting hounded relentlessly by the city code officials for parking company pickup trucks in the streets, I forget what city it was exactly. It sounded to me like he was basically a good guy that was driven nuts by the endless harassment he suffered from the city. If I recall correctly, after he had run out of options, he took out a few city council members. The media buried that story as quickly as they could.

Anonymous No_Limit_Bubba™ August 06, 2012 7:52 PM  

Stickwick,
Please Google Omar Thornton or (I suspect) Detroit Princess cruise shooting. Sorry, I don't know how to link with a 'droid.

Anonymous No_Limit_Bubba™ August 06, 2012 7:59 PM  

"...I don't recall ever hearing about any black mass murderers."

Paging ....Mr Derbyshire.....

Anonymous JI August 06, 2012 7:59 PM  

Outlaww X wrote:
"JI, It's not tin foil.
http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Operation_Northwoods
"

That is interesting, I hadn't known of that. I will say that this Operation Northwoods did not go so far as to suggest murdering US citizens, and it was rejected by McNamara. Still, it's not too far a leap from what your link says to actual murder. And given that we're a less moral country now, with even less moral leaders, I've gotta' admit you're right, what was once tin foil is no longer. I don't think the gov't in any way created these shootings as VD implies, or appears to imply, but I take back that this is complete tin foil. Maybe just aluminum foil. :-)

Anonymous Snickers August 06, 2012 8:13 PM  

I thought Sikhs were the ones that always carried those sweet swords. How come we don't get to see some of that in action?

Blogger IM2L844 August 06, 2012 8:38 PM  

An interesting tangent to this story is that the son (Amardeep Kaleka) of the temple president (Satwant Singh Kaleka), who was shot and killed, was collaborating with Dr. Steven Greer of Project Disclosure fame to produce a documentary, titled "Sirius", supposedly exposing the government's cover-up of UFO phenomenon.

Anonymous Outlaw X August 06, 2012 8:44 PM  

JI, remember the speaker implies, the listener infers and inference does not always equal implication. The phrase you use that you don't believe the "government did it" is a broad and general statement and the reader could infer Obama, CIA or the lady who works at the SSI office.

It is simple point but important when you are listening to or reading from some one. I can tell you are open and not stuck in the mud.

Have a good day(s)

Anonymous Athor Pel August 06, 2012 9:02 PM  

" Stickwick August 06, 2012 5:35 PM

...
After talking to hubby about this, I'm thinking one test for the false flag scenario is the "professionalism" of the shooter. A trained and/or experienced close-quarters combat shooter wouldn't make the sorts of mistakes many mass shooters commit. I guess one retort would be that perhaps these guys were deliberately chosen because they would look n00bish enough that no one would suspect they were part of a government conspiracy.
"



Assuming these guys are created rather than accidental.

Think it through. They're single use weapons. Their purpose isn't precise or even maximum damage but to generate fear.

You really don't want to spend too much on operational skills because you don't have to. You hand them a gun, point them at a fat, happy and completely unaware target and stand back.


Compare that to military trained special operators. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars are spent on special operations guys. They get used over and over again until they burn out or get killed in action because they are sent after hard targets. Repeat, hard targets.

Anonymous Godfrey August 06, 2012 9:07 PM  

... and the pattern has "mysteriously" emerged in the midst of an election year.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 06, 2012 9:11 PM  

Another black mass killer, or wannabe

Of course, the guy in China had as good a score with just a knife.

Anonymous Noah B. August 06, 2012 9:41 PM  

@IM2L844

Well there's your motive. BTW, cattle mutilations are up.

Anonymous Stickwick August 06, 2012 9:46 PM  

I have to correct something I said earlier -- turns out Mr. Marine was right. Now that my husband is home, I had a chance to query him more in-depth. I had asked him about close-quarters combat / building-clearing, assuming that was analogous to shooting people in any sort of enclosed space, but he says it's not. For a mass-murder situation, he says an assault rifle + high-capacity magazines is more effective than a shotgun, because of the greater number of shots you can fire before reloading. He said a shotgun would be the next most-effective weapon, and a handgun would be the last option. Sorry for the confusion.

You really don't want to spend too much on operational skills because you don't have to. ... Compare that to military trained special operators. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars are spent on special operations guys.

Well, no, I wasn't thinking they'd waste a spec ops guy on a situation like that. But even the regularly-trained combat guys have a lot invested in them, so you've made an interesting point. I guess what I mean is, wouldn't they give their guy some kind of training on what's effective? If the dude who actually did the shooting in CO wasn't Holmes, but was some kind of government operative, you'd think he'd have more sense than to use something amateur-hour like a drum mag.

Blogger ajw308 August 06, 2012 9:46 PM  

... and the pattern has "mysteriously" emerged in the midst of an election year.

For it being an election year, it's strangely quiet here. I know I'm not in a battleground state, but there seems to be silence here that the crickets don't even try to fill.

Apart from the election, I'm expecting all sorts of crazies to come out of the woodwork based on the Mayan calendar ending this December.

Anonymous Heh August 06, 2012 9:48 PM  

Are there black mass murderers in the U.S.? Not serial killers, or thugs who manage to kill a handful of people in the process of a robbery, but someone comparable to Holmes or Hasan? Maybe the media ignore them, but I don't recall ever hearing about any black mass murderers.

Sure!

"Colin Ferguson (born January 14, 1958) is a mass murderer who was convicted of murdering six people and injuring nineteen others on the Long Island Rail Road in Garden City, New York."

'The Kirkwood City Council shooting occurred on February 7, 2008, in Kirkwood, Missouri, United States; a suburb of St. Louis, Missouri in St. Louis County. Charles Lee Thornton went on a shooting rampage at a public meeting in the city hall, leaving six people dead and two others injured."

There are others.

Anonymous tinlaw August 06, 2012 11:22 PM  

D.C. Sniper - John Mohamed?

Blogger IM2L844 August 06, 2012 11:23 PM  

Well there's your motive.

Sometimes, it's just fun to try and fan the flames.

Anonymous Stickwick August 07, 2012 12:36 AM  

D.C. Sniper - John Mohamed?

He was a serial/spree killer, not a mass murderer like Holmes or Hasan. The examples others provided were more what I was asking about.

Anonymous III August 07, 2012 12:38 AM  

It is not what you get shot with. It is where you get shot. Plenty of people alive today that have been shot with the big bad 45. Lots of people dead today shot with the "puny" 9mm. Lots of guys skulking around in places the usgov shouldn't be shooting people with 9mm's and eliminating them.

Shotgun. Depending on how close you are to your victims.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 07, 2012 12:40 AM  

And another pattern of stupidity as well

California seems f*cked.

Blogger Donald Beeson August 07, 2012 1:19 AM  

How about old Nat Turner? Was he a mass murderer, or a spree killer.

Blogger Robert S. Oculus III August 07, 2012 2:15 AM  

A person who is a good shot can kill with any caliber weapon. I use a 12ga Mossberg for home defense, but if I had to I could take my old Marlin .22LR and accomplish the task. .22 is plenty when it's going through the bad guy's eyeball.

God forbid that I ever have to shoot a person, of course. Good old boring, peaceful life - that's for me.

Anonymous saffer August 07, 2012 3:29 AM  

If we're measuring barrels, I would say that if you can get your hands on an mp5 or uzi, that would be your ideal weapon in a confined space. Maybe even that new automatic Glock, simply because they have huge ammo capacities and are compact. Not necessarily for their automatic fire capabilities.

Anonymous daddynichol August 07, 2012 6:58 AM  

Blacks may not have the MO of a "typical" mass murder, but they do have a tendency to pop a couple of rounds in crowded spaces then run like hell. Hip Hop festivals, da Club, family reunions. yanowadimsayin'?

Anonymous Koanic August 07, 2012 8:05 AM  

Add Loughner to your list. He applied to the Army, which would've included psych eval.

But yes, it's pure coincidence. When you compare the level of Holmes' and Loughners' connection to the Army, versus Page's, it's night and day.

Loughner and Holmes show a clear pattern fit - eerily similar FACES, downwards early life spiral going critical, introversion, sensitivity, omega rank, rejection by women, internet obsession, drugs. Conspiracy theories and psychedelics for Loughner, Game and lithium for Holmes.

Most importantly, neither had life paths that gave them much profile on the government recruitment radar. Page, on the other hand, passed through the Army washout asset evaluation program and went straight into the WN's, who are probably more mole than host. He died on the spot the way a good patsy should, and picked an obviously wrong target, smacking of government incompetence. Also he was old enough to have been noticed and groomed by the ever slow-moving USG.

That's a plausible story. Now try to imagine how an ex-army acupuncturist who writes articles about increasing boob size with ancient Chinese medicine groomed and mind-controlled Holmes to plan and execute a brilliant mass shooting while overseeing 15-25 other patients during the short time she knew him. And did it with enough skill to ensure he would neither catch on nor implicate her afterwards.

Or imagine the Army guys who interviewed Loughner saying, this guy's our shooter, he smokes pot. And then playing voices in his radio and spiking his weed until he goes trigger happy.

It's so ridiculous it makes my theories on NEANDERTHALS sound sane by comparison.

Army psyops doesn't pick kids to do its dirty week. They need time to figure people out and groom them. Holmes and Loughner clearly belong to the pattern that dare not speak its name.

To delete, or not to delete. That is the question.

Blogger Spacebunny August 07, 2012 8:41 AM  

Constantly trying to steer discussions towards your area of obsession will get you regularly deleted, just ask wrf3 and E. Perline.

Blogger Joe Doakes August 07, 2012 8:47 AM  

The guy sounds like an Illinois Nazi who got lost driving in the Chicago suburbs and wound up over the state line, in Wisconsin. He hates Brown people. Sikh are Brown people. End of story.

Sikhs are saying "Yes, but we're the Good Brown people, not like those rotten Muslims." Doesn't matter, dummy; he's a psycho. To him, if you're not White, you're not s**t, so you might as well die.

The buddy who dropped him off might have been another Illinois Nazi who simply chickened out.

I'm not saying this couldn't be a grand conspiracy, only that it doesn't need to be. Sometimes a kook is just a kook.
.

Blogger Rahul August 07, 2012 9:00 AM  

"What do yo listen to, MSM?

Nothing wrong with AJ he is right 90%+ of the time."

Not really. I do like Alex and Michael Savage. AJ takes it a bit too far though.

Anonymous Koanic August 07, 2012 9:04 AM  

I'm betting the Sikhs are right about there being multiple shooters, based on the Youtube vids.

Unlike the one guy at Aurora who extrapolated a second shooter based on supposedly impossible trajectory for the SECOND smoke grenade.

These guys sound calm, it was daylight, and they hit 25 people in a church with multiple exits.

I'd guess the police are just pursuing and therefore not sharing info.

But I haven't seen a 100% certain eyewitness account, so maybe not.

Anyway if there were multiple there'll be no way to cover it up, the Sikhs won't stand for it.

Why would 4 tactically proficient WN's be collectively stupid enough to blow their wad on Sikhs? Very false flaggy.

Maybe an earlier than expected response caught their rearguard.

Anonymous Anonymous August 07, 2012 10:14 AM  

The most interesting report so far is the police briefing on the radio that said the first officer on the scene was shot several times, and subsequent officers arriving heard the shots, then put down the suspect. They handcuffed the shooter, then did a radio check and realized an officer wasn't responding. They found the officer who'd been shot. Murphy refused treatment and demanded the other officers go into the Sikh temple to attend to the other victims. The police officers REFUSED and took care of the officer first outside, and THEN later went into the temple to see if there was another shooter or to attend to the brown skinned victims.

Anonymous joe doakes August 07, 2012 3:33 PM  

Wow, that cop must have been wearing the same body armor as that theatre guy in Aurora - he was Invincible!

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