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Friday, August 17, 2012

John Scalzi justifies sexism

Mr. Scalzi attempts to defend female rejection of men as "creepers", amusingly without realizing how perfectly it can be turned around and applied to male rejection of women in a manner that he would probably consider sexist:
Acknowledge that you don’t get to define other people’s comfort level with you. Which is to say that you may be trying your hardest to be interesting and engaging and fun to be around — and still come off as a creeperstupid slut to someone else. Yes, that sucks for you. But you know what? It sucks for them even harder, because you’re creepingpissing them outoff and making them profoundly unhappy and uncomfortable. It may not seem fair that “creep”"stupid slut" is their assessment of you, but: Surprise! It doesn’t matter, and if you try to argue with them (or anyone else) that you’re in fact not being a creepstupid slut and the problem is with them not you, then you go from “creep”"stupid slut" to “complete assbag""complete bitch". Sometimes people aren’t going to like you or want to be near you. It’s just the way it is.”
Congratulations to John. He has managed to concoct a soundly sexist argument for simply banning women from DEFCON or any other predominantly male gathering. After all, if the dorks there don't like women or want them near them, it's just the way it is.... Men have precisely the same right to arbitrarily label women "stupid sluts" and treat them accordingly as women have to arbitrarily label men "creeps" and do the same.

Now, some men are genuinely creepy and I'm certainly not defending anyone's right to behave in an uncivilized manner. But at the same time, it should be noted that women cannot be granted a right to free association that is denied to men.

UPDATE: Scalzi is either too lazy or too much of a pussy to think through his own arguments. He writes:

You know, I saw in a Google search that you wrote on this piece at your blog, and I thought to myself, “oh, great, now I go have to deal with some dumbass comment from him on the site.” And I was right! For your next trick of bad equivalence, why don’t you put the word “droid” in parentheses and congratulate me for coming up with a valid excuse for banning R2D2 from the Mos Eisley cantina?

If this is really what you’ve come to say, don’t really need to be on this thread, VD. Shoo. Everyone else, best to leave VD uncommented upon.


He also added this:

[Deleted because the point this jackhole was purporting to make was just an excuse for him to call women obnoxious things on my site. Hi there, trolls from VD's site! Just because you wallow in a feculent miasma of male self-regard over there doesn't mean you get to port it over here -- JS]

It is fascinating to see that John Scalzi has devolved into such an intellectual pussy that he almost immediately concludes those who disagree with him must be trolls. And in support of my earlier charge of his sexism, what a sexist assumption to assume that all of the readers at VP are men! This is what happens when you run an echo chamber, you get sloppy, lazy, and eventually become unable to defend your opinions. It's particularly embarrassing in this situation, because I am simply pointing out the obvious logical consequences of his statement, which can be easily understood by looking at the word "creep" as a variable rather than being distracted by his "false equivalence" defense.

The equivalence or lack thereof is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter how Scalzi defines “creep” or to whom he applies the term. His argument works just as well for justifying the social stigmatization of “droids”, “negroes”, “homosexuals”, “girls with cooties”, or anything else that might make an individual uncomfortable. That’s not bad logic, and if he genuinely think it is, then I certainly invite him to identify the specific logical error or logical fallacy in it… if he can.

It is amusing to see him talking about "bad logic" as there is a reason I tagged this under "trainwreck" in the first place. Of course, this is the genius who once cited a female professor teaching "Lesbianism in Indian Film" at the University of Minnesota in order to defend the idea of female interest in the hard sciences.

Labels: ,

103 Comments:

Blogger Crude August 17, 2012 4:01 AM  

I think "bitch" may have worked too, but hey, stupid slut gets the point across beautifully.

I could just picture the conversation, after some guy pulls a woman aside to explain why she's not allowed at the mostly male gathering place anymore.

"Karen, you're being a bitch."
'What? *I* don't think I'm being a bitch!'
"Well, you are. Everyone thinks so. They really don't want to put up with you."
'That's not fair!'
"It doesn't have to be. We have a firm no-bitch policy, we don't like it when guys get exasperated with people like you."
'I can NOT act like a bitch, then!'
"The funny thing is, Karen... you can't. The good news is, you don't have to stop. You just have to go be a bitch somewhere else. It's just the way it is."

Blogger JACIII August 17, 2012 5:16 AM  

There is more than a little value to just not having to be bothered by those of vastly different values, preferences, and proclivities than one's own. Most folk have friendly acquaintances of many races, creeds, and the opposite sex but running a "socially acceptable" subroutine while conversing is work and not to be engaged in when not being compensated.

Being around women who are not engaged in their primary function set (cooking, cleaning, laundry, childrearing, husband pleasing) is tedious at best and mental anguish if experienced at length.

Anonymous Hah August 17, 2012 6:38 AM  

You really expect intellectual honesty and consistency from a Leftist cretin like Scalzi?

Anonymous meant to live August 17, 2012 6:39 AM  

someone posted an article on reddit changing the genders used in it. The redditers went mad at the injustice towards women.

"Men have precisely the same right to arbitrarily label women "stupid sluts""

While the stupid part can be shown using logic, the creeper label simply requires feelings.
women's feelings >>>>> mansplaining

Anonymous Heh August 17, 2012 7:05 AM  

Acknowledge that you don’t get to define other people’s comfort level with you.

Acknowledge that if other people are not comfortable with me, it is their job to fuck off somewhere else, not my job to slink away from their special, wonderful presence.

Blogger Andrew Cordeaux August 17, 2012 7:19 AM  

"Being around women who are not engaged in their primary function set (cooking, cleaning, laundry, childrearing, husband pleasing) is tedious at best and mental anguish if experienced at length." -- JACIII
Classic.

Anonymous Idle Spectator, Creeper++ August 17, 2012 7:25 AM  

//rubs Scalzi's shoulders

That feel good? I hope so...there are a few knots.

You need anything else John, just let me know. I make wonderful chicken casserole. We can chill at my crib and watch some DVDs. I'll watch you when you sleep.

Anonymous OGRE August 17, 2012 7:27 AM  

I would think that using the term "assbag" in conversation--any conversation, ever--would immediately qualify said user as a "creeper."

Blogger Res Ipsa August 17, 2012 7:57 AM  

Excellent.

Blogger Spacebunny August 17, 2012 8:03 AM  

Wow, Mr. Scalzi has set up quite the little echo chamber over there - he even takes it one step further by his pathetic passive aggressive "fixing it for you" crap.

Anonymous Josh August 17, 2012 8:04 AM  

Scalzi is such a creeper...

Anonymous Josh August 17, 2012 8:06 AM  

Aren't the people he's calling creepers just your average geek gamma/omega with horrible hygiene, no sense of style, and non extant social skills?

Anonymous Jim August 17, 2012 8:06 AM  

I left my church the day the pastor said, "Our goal is that no women would ever feel uncomfortable."

That really helped me understand the odd culture of the church that I couldn't quite put my figure on. Ultimately it was all about pleasing the women at the expense of the men.

Anonymous Michael Maier August 17, 2012 8:08 AM  

"Being around women who are not engaged in their primary function set (cooking, cleaning, laundry, childrearing, husband pleasing) is tedious at best and mental anguish if experienced at length."

I am using this one. It will be correctly attributed.

Anonymous Athor Pel August 17, 2012 8:20 AM  

"Jim August 17, 2012 8:06 AM
...
Ultimately it was all about pleasing the women at the expense of the men."



More like, it was all about pleasing the women even if they stop following Jesus as a result.


Anonymous RedJack August 17, 2012 8:22 AM  

I read the original article, and got a lot of chuckles out of it. The Bull lesbian complaining that at times she was accused of being a "Creeper" was funny.

For all that, there is some good points. Don't be an assbag. That goes between both genders. Funny thing is it is only being applied to men. The way John layed it out, the guys are the problem 100% of the time and should just leave all the girls alone at SciFi conventions.

Anonymous Orville August 17, 2012 8:54 AM  

Seeing that example from Scalzi made me think of that pageant gal who walked into a plane propeller because she was so freaking clueless.

Anonymous VryeDenker August 17, 2012 8:59 AM  

I wonder what would happen if Western Men* decided to do a John Galt.

*Real men, obviously.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey August 17, 2012 9:18 AM  

One of the most attractive traits in a woman is the discernment to know when to gracefully exit a male-dominated social gathering when the conversation turns towards masculine topics. Especially if she's leaving to make me a sammich.

Anonymous re allow anonymous comments August 17, 2012 9:19 AM  

This is the same retard who tried to tell us that white male was "the lowest difficulty setting"

Anonymous Baseball Savant August 17, 2012 9:27 AM  

WHY DO YOU HATE WOMEN SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous Orion August 17, 2012 9:39 AM  

Here is a question Ms. Scalzi wouldn't want to answer: Do people you consider "creeps" need to be completely exiled from society? After all, they offend you and so many other women by their mere existence. Society would be "happier" without them. And any time they gather separately in a group of mainly "creeps" they should be broken up of course. They might offend the non-creeps in the group after all. Or if a woman should want to join the group because it would be advantageous to her, well then they need to be expunged from there also. That will enrich the existence of the non-creeps that are left after all.

Then we come to the issue of who decides someone is creepy. Is it the first woman to come along? Maybe the seventh? Or maybe it is a certain percentage of the women that join the group making the conclusion? What if it is case number one, and that woman decides YOU are the creep. Is this a label you are forced to bear from that point on like a concentration camp tattoo? Are you immediately barred from all gatherings?

As pointed out by Vox, an "equalitarian" take would require this work both ways. Women would have to suffer the ostracism of being the "stupid slut", and perhaps forever be banned from gatherings of people. Who knows, maybe one of those "creeps" will strike preemptively and label all women that way so they don't get banned from gatherings by a woman labeling them as "creeps"

Anonymous Oh Scalzi, August 17, 2012 9:44 AM  

Acknowledge that you don’t get to define other people’s interest level in your books. Which is to say that you may be trying your hardest to be good writer, and still come off as an insipid hack to someone else. Yes, that sucks for you. But you know what? It sucks for them even harder, because they want to read entertaining books and your books make them profoundly bored. It may not seem fair that "boring, unreadable hack" is their assessment of you, but: Surprise! It doesn’t matter, and if you try to argue with them (or anyone else) that you’re in fact not a boring hack and the problem is with them not you, then you go from "boring, unreadable hack" to "complete assbag". Sometimes people aren’t going to like you or want to read your inane prose. It’s just the way it is.

Anonymous Vidad August 17, 2012 9:51 AM  

"Being around women who are not engaged in their primary function set (cooking, cleaning, laundry, childrearing, husband pleasing) is tedious at best and mental anguish if experienced at length."

My gosh... darned right.

Anonymous Curlytop August 17, 2012 9:55 AM  

"Being around women who are not engaged in their primary function set (cooking, cleaning, laundry, childrearing, husband pleasing) is tedious at best and mental anguish if experienced at length."

So very true, regardless of gender. If it's a man espousing this, you're being sexist, but if females agree with it, it's being?

Blogger Spacebunny August 17, 2012 9:58 AM  

but if females agree with it, it's being?

Self-loathing and an unknowing victim of patriarchy!

Blogger Giraffe August 17, 2012 10:01 AM  

But at the same time, it should be noted that women cannot be granted a right to free association that is denied to men.

Oh, yes they can.

Anonymous Stickwick August 17, 2012 10:10 AM  

Nietzsche seemed to understand women and the primacy of "comfort" pretty well:

"All women are subtle in exaggerating their weaknesses; they are inventive when it comes to weaknesses in order to appear as utterly fragile ornaments who are hurt even by a speck of dust. Their existence is supposed to make men feel clumsy, and guilty on that score. Thus they defend themselves against the strong and 'the law of the jungle.'"

Blogger James Dixon August 17, 2012 10:14 AM  

You know, this thread just begs for some good music to go with it, so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wO_6wMRS7A

Anonymous Piper Cub August 17, 2012 10:17 AM  

Uh, Orville, the accident happened at night and it is generally blamed on the pilot who is responsible for the safety of the passengers around the plane.

That is why the pilot exits first.

The woman being a pageant gal has nothing to do with it.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 17, 2012 10:26 AM  

Scalzi is reinforcing the liberal viewpoint/mantra that sexist males are one of the worst things in society.

They seem to be running scared of the racist black mob attacks on whites issue, though because they just might lose control of the narative.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 17, 2012 10:30 AM  

Scalzi is engaged in reinforcing the liberal narrative that Sexism is one of the worst things about white males.

They seem to be running scared of the racist black flash mobs attacking whites in a racial war issue because they could lose control of the narrative.

Anonymous Orville August 17, 2012 10:36 AM  

Don't be twit Piper, I grew up in a small airport, and you'd have to be pretty oblivious, not to mention deaf, to not notice that the airplane is still running. Of course her lawyer is blaming the pilot as she is suing for damages. That doesn't mean the pilot is responsible for someone who had safely walked away from the plane and decided to walk back and chat up the pilot.

She is believed to have been returning to the two-seater plane to thank the pilot when she accidentally walked into the propeller.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070649/Lauren-Scruggs-Fashion-editor-walks-time-horrifically-injured-plane-propeller.html#ixzz23oWyYuzh

Anonymous Jim August 17, 2012 10:53 AM  

What can you do if you're not Tom Brady? Nothing really.

Blogger Giraffe August 17, 2012 10:53 AM  

[Deleted, unread, because I already invited you off the thread, Vox -- JS]

I guess you don't get to have a say.

Yes, that sucks for you. But you know what? It sucks for [him] even harder, because you’re [embarrassing him] and making [him] profoundly unhappy and uncomfortable.

Blogger Vox August 17, 2012 10:56 AM  

I guess you don't get to have a say.

Hey, his blog, his rules. I have no problem with that. But, of course, it won't be unread, because I very cleverly copied it here.

Anonymous Stickwick August 17, 2012 10:56 AM  

Scalzi "invited" Vox off the thread? "Invited" makes it sound like there's an option to decline, but of course there isn't. Talk about passive aggressive.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 17, 2012 10:57 AM  

Scalzi says:

You know, I saw in a Google search that you wrote on this piece at your blog

Wow, what an ego. He does Google searches to see how well known he is? Doesn't he have better things to do?

Anonymous The other skeptic August 17, 2012 10:59 AM  

His argument works just as well for justifying the social stigmatization of “droids”, “negroes”, “homosexuals”, “girls with cooties”, or anything else that might make an individual uncomfortable.

You forgot to mention people who disagree with him.

Blogger Vox August 17, 2012 11:01 AM  

Talk about passive aggressive.

John is the quintessential gamma.

Anonymous HH August 17, 2012 11:02 AM  

Since this term has come up now in several threads and I am getting out of date ... I kind of wish someone would define what "creep" behavior is ... especially as relating to defcon and hacking ?

Computers guys in my time were generally socially inept and perhaps nerdy but when did that translate into creepy ? a bunch of hackers writing code, playing games, eating Chinese food and talking technical stuff that 99% of the people on the planet don't understand would hardly be what I would call creepy...

Blogger Giraffe August 17, 2012 11:02 AM  

Superintelligences are sneaky.

Anonymous Curlytop August 17, 2012 11:03 AM  

Spacebunny August 17, 2012 9:58 AM
but if females agree with it, it's being?

Self-loathing and an unknowing victim of patriarchy!


Most definitely, but it isn't the shrill one word slogan the Thought Police are so fond of: Bigot! Racist! Sexist! ... I guess, Self-Loather, would be the marketing version. ;-)

Willing Victim of the Patriarchy, has a nice ring to it too. Boy, that would put some knickers in a twist if I had that printed on a T-shirt.

Anonymous Orion August 17, 2012 11:05 AM  

I'll be the first to admit I didn't check his site yet. Sorry, her site. Or whatever. I have been to a mommy blogger site before and got bored far too quickly so I avoid them now.

Anonymous Noah B. August 17, 2012 11:06 AM  

Funny thing is, it's not bad advice. But it definitely works both ways.

Blogger Spacebunny August 17, 2012 11:08 AM  

I thought John was a boy's name.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 17, 2012 11:09 AM  

a bunch of hackers writing code, playing games, eating Chinese food and talking technical stuff that 99% of the people on the planet don't understand would hardly be what I would call creepy...

Make that 99.9% at least. 1% of 7B is 70M. I doubt that there would even be 7M who understand the stuff that likely goes on in those hacker meets (not that I have ever been to DEFCON).

Anonymous Stephen J. August 17, 2012 11:11 AM  

"(I)t should be noted that women cannot be granted a right to free association that is denied to men."

This dovetails neatly with an observation I made in my own journal some time ago:

"Feminists want the right to exclude men whenever they wish, whatever the man wishes (in the name of creating a "safe space" or "room of one's own"), but insist that men must not exclude any women at all if even one woman wants in. The underlying assumption is that women need that safe space and men do not; this may in fact be true, but if it is, then the argument that there is no essential difference between men and women must be abandoned."

Anonymous kh123 August 17, 2012 11:11 AM  

Folks have quite a bit of time on their hands over there. Note that the break in comments from the same person usually equals them exiting whatever Starbucks they were just at.

Anonymous Stephen J. August 17, 2012 11:17 AM  

"Funny thing is, it's not bad advice. But it definitely works both ways."

Yeah, but men are infinitely more willing to put up with behaviour they don't like in women in order to get laid, and are generally far less worried that a choice to refuse unwanted attention from a woman will provoke violence or retribution.

Or, if you want to be really snarky: A woman finds a man creepy if he makes her feel that he won't stop bothering her until they have sex. A man finds a woman creepy if she makes him feel that she won't stop bothering him *after* they have sex.

Anonymous Baseball Savant August 17, 2012 11:18 AM  

Spacebunny August 17, 2012 11:08 AM

I thought John was a boy's name.


I once read an article that ranked the "masculinity" of male names. I remember David being #1, but I don't remember John. Maybe it was in the female column?

Blogger Joshua_D August 17, 2012 11:21 AM  

Curlytop August 17, 2012 11:03 AM
Spacebunny August 17, 2012 9:58 AM
but if females agree with it, it's being?

Self-loathing and an unknowing victim of patriarchy!



Most definitely, but it isn't the shrill one word slogan the Thought Police are so fond of: Bigot! Racist! Sexist! ... I guess, Self-Loather, would be the marketing version. ;-)

Willing Victim of the Patriarchy, has a nice ring to it too. Boy, that would put some knickers in a twist if I had that printed on a T-shirt.


How about ... SUBMITTER!

Anonymous Stickwick August 17, 2012 11:24 AM  

I kind of wish someone would define what "creep" behavior is ...

It's not possible to give you a precise definition, because all definitions in Woman's World are dynamic and subjective. In nebulous terms, "creep" just refers to anything that makes a woman uncomfortable at that moment.

In Man's World it goes like this: a really unattractive woman exhibits a particular behavior and is labeled a bitch; meanwhile, a gorgeous supermodel does the exact same thing, and she's labeled a bitch, too. In Woman's World it goes like this: some vaguely unattractive Joe Schmo exhibits a particular behavior and is labeled a creep; meanwhile, George Clooney does the exact same thing, and he's considered charming.

If you want specifics on what comprises a creep as far as a woman is concerned, you're not going to get anything consistent.

Blogger Giraffe August 17, 2012 11:27 AM  

How about ... SUBMITTER!

Nobody would know what it means.

This would get no end of knickers in a twist: Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. Eph 5:22

Blogger Giraffe August 17, 2012 11:31 AM  

Stickwick has nailed it.

creep behavior:

1. Is he rich, famous, or powerful?
2. Is he attractive?
3. Is he alpha or a bad boy?

If yes to any of the above, it is not necessarily creep behavior. If no, then definitely it is.

Anonymous Joe Smith August 17, 2012 11:47 AM  

funny how John's translation engine works, i entered:

"you are a complete embarrassment as a man JS. engage valid points or just admit this is the flabby white knighters club. your snark would also likely get your rear end kicked to your adam's apple which is why i'm wiling to bet you limit that crap to web pages"

converted to:

"[Hilariously aggressive douchecanoe's spittle deleted -- JS]"

it's a very responsive service, about 90 seconds for that one.

Anonymous Heh August 17, 2012 11:50 AM  

"Creep" = a beta male expressing normal male sexual interest in a female rather than gracefully accepting his role as her general dogsbody and emotional tampon.

Anonymous Redhand August 17, 2012 12:01 PM  

Creepy is any opinions and attitudes prevalent on Vox Popoli.

Blogger ajw308 August 17, 2012 12:15 PM  

But, was that American Indian Film or Far East Asian Indian Film?

Blogger Joshua_D August 17, 2012 12:19 PM  

This "exchange" reminds of a post I read by Roissy. I can't remember the exact nature of the post, but I'm pretty sure it was about "looks." Alpha men look like Y. Beta like X ... etc. In any case, JS looked exactly like I thought he would look, and I bet he uses the word "methinks" .. a lot.

Blogger DW August 17, 2012 12:21 PM  

My God, Scalzi is a hysterically sensitive little shit, tis the life of the gamma though.

Anonymous Kriston August 17, 2012 12:22 PM  

Spacebunny August 17, 2012 11:08 AM

I thought John was a boy's name.


I think it is because in upper case the A and the H look a lot alike that the name was mistyped from JOAN.

Blogger ajw308 August 17, 2012 12:26 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger ajw308 August 17, 2012 12:28 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous trk August 17, 2012 12:29 PM  

love me some Friday nerd on nerd action.

Anonymous RedJack August 17, 2012 12:31 PM  

I went to the site, and must admit I am little confused. I take it John C's rules were to geeks at something like Comiccon, suddenly stumbling on a woman they find attractive. His basic rules state "Don't interact, or you will be a creep."

In other words, the type of people at a sci fi convention are the type of people most women find unattractive and "creepy". Having never gone to a convention of that type, I will admit I don't know.

So two questions:
Are the women getting "Creepers" following them there because they are models promoting something?

If they are models, and doing what a typical model does at say a car show (acting flirty, showing skin, fondling a product, etc) why are they acting surprised when they generate the exact reaction the sponsor wanted? Namely, association of that product (be it a car or the latest video game) with sex.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner August 17, 2012 12:36 PM  

Mr. Scalzi = Defender of "Eek a Man"

I prefer Eek a Mouse:http://www.youtube.com/embed/UXjzZJL_a2Y"

Anonymous FP August 17, 2012 12:40 PM  

John clearly hasn't spent much time with women who are single in the online game world, especially MMO games. Even the ones who are attached can be creepers by his own definitions. Its fun for a bit to frustrate them by not giving them the attention they think they deserve. "Ooh, so you're the guild leader..." proceeded by obvious attempts to titillate so they become the belle of the battle.

Blogger Cloud William August 17, 2012 12:52 PM  

VryeDenker:

I wonder what would happen if Western Men* decided to do a John Galt.

*Real men, obviously.


One could argue, convincingly, that they already are.

Anonymous CunningDove August 17, 2012 12:54 PM  

Since this term has come up now in several threads and I am getting out of date ... I kind of wish someone would define what "creep" behavior is ... especially as relating to defcon and hacking ?
In My World, creeper is the guy who stares at me like I'm hanging off of a stripper pole regardless of my appearance. For example, the last creeper I was around was at work in an industrial setting. I was wearing a baggy T-Shirt, loose fitting jeans & required PPE. I wanted to puke every time I had to walk past the truck he was sitting in. The other guys that simply stared at me as I crossed the street were not creepy. Socially awkward & nerdy does not necessarily mean creepy. However, for most women... the three questions above pretty much sum it up.

Anonymous WaterBoy August 17, 2012 1:10 PM  

Stephen J.:"Feminists want the right to exclude men whenever they wish, whatever the man wishes (in the name of creating a "safe space" or "room of one's own"), but insist that men must not exclude any women at all if even one woman wants in. The underlying assumption is that women need that safe space and men do not; this may in fact be true, but if it is, then the argument that there is no essential difference between men and women must be abandoned."

Precisely right. Women can have all the female-only gyms they want, but do men get their male-only clubs (Augusta National Golf Club being about the lone remaining holdout that I can recall)?

Anonymous WaterBoy August 17, 2012 1:16 PM  

5. Don’t touch...Here’s an idea: That person you want to touch? Put them in charge of the whole touch experience.

Oka-a-a-a-y....but if the same rules apply to everyone, then they are subsequently putting me in charge...and I choose to initiate touching, so all's well!

That, or nobody would ever touch anyone else, ever. Europe just got a helluva lot less friendly.

Anonymous Sheila August 17, 2012 1:22 PM  

I have been disappointed to find that Scalzi is such a sensitive, multikulti fool. I actually enjoyed "Old Man's War" and "Ghost Brigades," and passed them along to my older son. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find decently-written and enjoyable fiction where the writer does not inject his political and social beliefs. Even women's romantic fiction (and some of it is terrific escape literature) is infested with this - loads of pro-gay story lines, evil right-wing politicians, and so forth. To paraphrase the otherwise forgettable Laura Ingraham, "Shut up and write!"

A request for urgent help from the ilk: My husband and I have just decided to pull our younger son from his Christian school (yes, three days into the school year). We had already been concerned about the overall future of the place, and my concerns were in no way allayed by meeting the two new teachers (one a fresh-new edumacation major generalist). Then my son mentioned some of the class work he'd done, including writing on "If you were a color, what color would you be and why?" While he worked on some other homework, I started looking through his reading book, from Bob Jones University Press. Let's see, female heroines, girls making boys look like fools, anyone of wealth or status portrayed as evil and mean-spirited, sole fictional story featuring scientists features black guys, illustration showing bad guy with gun clearly shows White guy, two sob stories about the 1940s U.S. domestic Japanese internment mentioning the awful heat in the camps (we all know that all White Americans in WWII had AC, right?) and noting the racist remarks made by the "blond boy." Anyhow, I got angrier and angrier. We are paying thousands of dollars a year for this?

SO . . . with maximum trepidation, and for at least a semester, I am going to home school. I don't doubt my own abilities in general, but I do doubt my ability to get my son to respect me as a teacher (I know - more a reflection of my failings as a parent in general) and I'm a bit overwhelmed as to how to measure progress (in means that may be necessary if/when we try to enroll him in another private school) without resorting to the mindless busy-work and pointless exercises that constituted much of his homework. Also, given my son's slow-processing and handwriting difficulties (one thing we will be working on intensively is learning touch-typing!), what should I reasonably assign for a 6th grader re writing? I think book reports are asinine, and he's not ready for a standard essay. I like the BJU science curriculum, I'll use Wordly Wise and new words from whatever we're reading for vocab, and he does well with Saxon math (gradual and incremental learning with as much repetition as necessary). Can anyone recommend a course of history? I think this school year was to be "New World" history (last year was beginnings of civilization and general European history). What's a good Bible curriculum (or study guide to a particular book of the Bible) for his level? Any good recommendations for boys fiction? He knows and likes the story of Oliver Twist, but I thought we'd try the original Dickens version. I also thought about Tom Sawyer. FWIW, he's not much of a reader, but he's actually enthralled by the first few Harry Potter books, whereas I could not get him interested in the Narnia series nor Lloyd Alexander's Book of Three series. Any recommendations?

Anonymous Athor Pel August 17, 2012 1:23 PM  

"FP August 17, 2012 12:40 PM

John clearly hasn't spent much time with women who are single in the online game world, especially MMO games. Even the ones who are attached can be creepers by his own definitions. Its fun for a bit to frustrate them by not giving them the attention they think they deserve. "Ooh, so you're the guild leader..." proceeded by obvious attempts to titillate so they become the belle of the battle."



The worst tend to work it so they have plenty of suck-up boys doing their bidding and they don't see the favors they get from the male players as something to be grateful for. But those aren't too bad, just don't give them any things or time and you cease to exist for them.

The ones that annoy me the most are the attention seekers. Their desire to one-up and brag is only exceeded by their vulgarity. Makes me glad I don't play anymore.

Anonymous Daniel August 17, 2012 1:24 PM  

Yeah, I can't stand touching women, but I do it all the time, since they want to touch me so badly. It is my duty as reluctant lord of the touching experience.

Blogger ajw308 August 17, 2012 1:36 PM  

5. Don’t touch...Here’s an idea: That person you want to touch? Put them in charge of the whole touch experience.
No, no, no! You're forgetting the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.

If you want them to touch you, you have to touch them first.

Anonymous Athor Pel August 17, 2012 1:44 PM  

"Stephen J. August 17, 2012 11:17 AM
...
Yeah, but men are infinitely more willing to put up with behaviour they don't like in women in order to get laid, and are generally far less worried that a choice to refuse unwanted attention from a woman will provoke violence or retribution.

Or, if you want to be really snarky: A woman finds a man creepy if he makes her feel that he won't stop bothering her until they have sex. A man finds a woman creepy if she makes him feel that she won't stop bothering him *after* they have sex.."



The only time I've been verbally or physically attacked by women has been when I rejected their advances. Breaking up with them will do it too.

You definitely don't want to give some women the wrong idea.

Blogger Double Minded Man August 17, 2012 2:10 PM  

Sheila,

You might want to check out the FB group Practical Homeschooling: http://www.facebook.com/PracticalHomeschooling

There are a lot of posts about different curriculum as well as people asking and receiving advice for difficult situations. As for curriculum, I am about to buy the Robinson Curriculum, http://robinsoncurriculum.com/ It is inexpensive (YaY!) and its self directed so does not need a full time "teacher"

As far as books go, Anne McCaffrey's various books in the world of Pern are great reading at that age. Terry Brooks Shannara series are also quite good. And the various Dragonlance books by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman. And then there is the Robert Jordan Eye Of The World series. Some here dislike that one, but its been a best seller since its inception.

Anonymous Stickwick August 17, 2012 2:39 PM  

Any good recommendations for boys fiction?

The Hobbit
The Lord of the Rings
Any and all of Heinlein's juveniles

Anonymous Josh August 17, 2012 2:49 PM  

Sheila,

For boys fiction, I cannot recommend GA Henty highly enough.

For curriculum, I would check out either veritas press or gileskirk.

For Latin, Wheelocks. And yes, Latin is a must.

Blogger Spacebunny August 17, 2012 3:01 PM  

Can anyone recommend a course of history? I think this school year was to be "New World" history (last year was beginnings of civilization and general European history).

The Mystery of History is one, You could also just go with whichever of Story of the World works for you (there are four eras of history covered), Tapestry of Grace is an inclusive history course that includes a writing curriculum that covers all age levels and you could use whatever level is appropriate for you son.

What's a good Bible curriculum (or study guide to a particular book of the Bible) for his level?

What the Bible is all about for Young Explorers

Any good recommendations for boys fiction? He knows and likes the story of Oliver Twist, but I thought we'd try the original Dickens version. I also thought about Tom Sawyer.

Always, always, always and I can't stress this enough, always - go with originals, don't do the "rewrites" "edited" or "abridged" versions ever. At his age he may enjoy the Redwall series. Books on the Greek myths - d'aulaire does a very nice one. Perhaps the Ranger's Apprentice series....

Anonymous VD August 17, 2012 3:17 PM  

SO . . . with maximum trepidation, and for at least a semester, I am going to home school.

Good luck. For fiction, do NOT read Robert Jordan. He features Rand al'Thor, the most feminized protagonist ever.

Lloyd Alexander: The Chronicles of Prydain
Susan Cooper: The Dark is Rising series

Anonymous ThirdMonkey August 17, 2012 3:23 PM  

Willing Victim of the Patriarchy, has a nice ring to it too. Boy, that would put some knickers in a twist if I had that printed on a T-shirt.

If you insist on printing it on a t-shirt, do it in Latin. That way, when someone asks what it means, you will have the distinct pleasure of translating it and seeing the uncomfortable look on their face. English versions should be limited to panties.

Anonymous Suomynona August 17, 2012 3:46 PM  

It is amusing to see him talking about "bad logic" as there is a reason I tagged this under "trainwreck" in the first place.

If only good logic was a real force that would actually counter or annihilate bad logic, like a bug zapper simply fries any little pest flitting passed its electric barrier - but it isn't. Good logic is powerless in the face of unthinking ideology.

The fact that Leftists have no shame, will never admit the truth, will never play fair, and can never be reasoned with, eliminates good logic as a counter to their outrageous absurdities and delusions.

As long as their opponents continue to engage them in a war of words, they know they can continue to do exactly as they please. Words to not stop fascists. The civilized world continues marching to the left in spite of the billions of words of protest, logical arguments against them, intelligent reasoning, and even with direct real evidence of the many failures of their delusional ideology.

Anonymous Veronica August 17, 2012 3:59 PM  

Sheila: For writing check out Institute for Excellence in Writing. For good reading selections for boys, check out the Robinson Curriculum, especially the G.A. Henty collection of historical fiction. Those are just right for an 11 year old boy. I think they can still be found in hard copies at Vision Forum Ministries ("Biblical Boyhood").

Anonymous patrick kelly August 17, 2012 4:01 PM  

Sheila,

RE: Male home school reading.

"Byzantium" and "Patrick" both by Stephen R. Lawhead

"Byzantium" is rather long, > 800 pages I think, but is quest like tale with kidnapping, Vikings, testosterone laden heroic feats etc.

"Patrick" is a shorter, fun, entertaining fictional story of the life of St. Patrick. Lots of young male pleasing fare int there also.

Anonymous uni-sex toilets are the future! August 17, 2012 4:17 PM  

"do men get their male-only clubs (Augusta National Golf Club being about the lone remaining holdout that I can recall)?"

You haven't heard of the patriarchal conspiracy rooms conveniently adorned with urinals?

Anonymous Anonymous August 17, 2012 4:24 PM  

"...creeper is the guy who stares at me like I'm hanging off of a stripper pole regardless of my appearance..."

Ok,so in other words, a healthy guy who you aren't attracted to.His crime is that he has a libido and a pulse.Gotcha.

I guess,in light of that, the only question I personally have left about the "creeper/creepy/creep/creepery/insert retarded-sounding iteration of base word 'creep'" is what moron celebrity or female non-thinker you guys are all parroting, as grammatically "creeper" makes no sense at all in the context you use it,let alone that it makes you sound like Forrest Gump's flipper baby lovechild with his momma.

Hey,by the way, fuck you and everyone who looks like you.

Yeah, some people are pretty socially inept, and some of those people are women. We put up with your sick personality and culture borrowed from gay men borrowing from straight women, chasing itself around in a narcissistic death spiral...writing love letters to serial killers...talk about fucked up!

We put up with your overbearing and obnoxious pontificating "100 Reasons I Hate Men Right Now" lists every 5 minutes gracing the pages of every major news outlet in our country.

All this and more, and we don't pull some underhanded bullshit like accusing random women of sexual deviancy based on some subjective measurement like "how they make us feel".

If that argument were applied in other circumstances, it could be used as a rationale for lynching blacks in the south,or killing gay people. Then again, women have eagerly participated in these activities as well.

"Creeper" is a throwback to barbarous mob rule,punishments meted out based on oracles,soothsayers,hearsay,superstition,you might as well be slandering these people because a ouija board told you to!

I have made it a point to personally stigmatize any women I hear using this phrase. If I hear a cashier at a supermarket use it, I don't shop there anymore. If I hear a waitress use it, guess what, no tip for you. I'm tired of this bullshit,just this general attitude that men don't deserve any basic human courtesy,respect for their achievements,or encouragement and if I catch you promoting that attitude, I'm rapping your knuckles for it.

Blogger James Dixon August 17, 2012 4:25 PM  

> Any and all of Heinlein's juveniles

Bingo. I was going to recommend them.

Anonymous Pete August 17, 2012 4:58 PM  

Scalzi seems to be trying very hard to kill his career. Who buys science fiction books if not white men? Yet all he does these days is castigate and mock white men, apparently just for existing and being socially awkward.

I am a white male. Based on two of his blog posts - this one and the one about "white men have the lowest difficulty setting in life," I've decided to never buy a book by Scalzi. How many other white men will do the same, translating to how many lost dollars over time?

Pissing off your customers has never been a great sales strategy. The black/hispanic/female readers won't make up the lost sales - they are busy buying books by black/hispanic/female authors.

Anonymous Suomynona August 17, 2012 5:33 PM  

How many other white men will do the same, translating to how many lost dollars over time?

And how many non-feminist white women who love white men and the civilization they've created, will also boycott Scalzi's book due to his leftist self-loathing inanities? I'm not sure what the position of being a useful idiot pays but I sincerely hope it's much less than what Scalzi's losing in book sales because of it.

Neither Scalzi nor that buffoon, Bakker, will ever get a penny from me, specifically because of their bellowing leftist maws. And although I've enjoyed watching The Game of Thrones, that other leftist big mouth, will also not be getting a penny from me either through book sales or any other piece of the action.

Anonymous Anonymous August 17, 2012 5:39 PM  

Shelia

For history - look into the "My Father's World" set of curricula...

http://www.mfwbooks.com

rory

Anonymous Cat McClusky August 17, 2012 5:59 PM  

This Scalzi writes like he is addressing a class of utterly clueless, asperger atheist types.

"Rule 5;...Try not to let your heavy mouth breathing be too audible. That tends to make women ill at ease.

"Rule 6;...Wipe the cheese spread and pretzel crumbs from your neck-beard.

"Rule 7;...While attempting to address a woman, do keep your hands out of your pants."

Anonymous WaterBoy August 17, 2012 7:06 PM  

uni-sex toilets are the future!: "You haven't heard of the patriarchal conspiracy rooms conveniently adorned with urinals?"

As you well know, not for too much longer, though.

Anonymous JCclimber August 17, 2012 8:50 PM  

Stupid Chrome!!! keep forgetting that it won't post my comments, but just swallows them. Using Safari now to post this, which will be much shorter now than my original.

Homeschooling.
One, aim for a 3 hour school day, at most.
Two, throw out the thinking that because the school covers something YOU have to cover it.
Three - book reports teach many useful skills.
Summarizing, capturing the author's intent, critical reading skills, improving grammar, and communicating the student's ideas to others. Helps them also see which books are trashy and which ones are valuable, to be better selectors of future reading.

Don't feel that you have to follow a set formula. 1 or 2 paragraphs. Illustrated. Comic book style. Oral report. Report in the form of a quiz for the parent. But this really helps teach some critical life skills. Just be creative, and work with them to make their reports better. Have them evaluate their own reports. Start small.

Have them communicate one thing in their report. Author's style? Author's main purpose of writing the book? Which parts were your favorite and why? Who was your favorite character and why? Do you agree with the author or main character? Give your son a list of which type of report to make, and then cross it off the list so that he has to tackle each type of report before cycling back again.

See? simple and fun.

Anonymous Idle Spectator, Creeper++ August 17, 2012 9:22 PM  

//breathes heavily through nose

I smell Vox's scent.

Anonymous Sheila August 17, 2012 9:43 PM  

Thank you all for the suggestions and links. Vox, I read one or two of Jordan's books when they first came out, and they were appallingly bad, so were never on my radar. I have the Prydain chronicles and tried to start them, but he showed little interest. I also have Susan Cooper's books and will try those as well. Stickwick, he might be able to read "The Hobbit," but Tolkien's trilogy is far too advanced for him - and too long. Even now, with the Potter books (the first few of which I consider entertaining) he wants to know what happens and keeps questioning me, and gets frustrated because I simply repeat that he must read and find out.

Josh - I agree on the importance of Latin. Of course, I dropped Latin in college after the first semester, and have never taught a foreign language before. Perhaps my older son could teach me, and I could then teach the younger one (older one is far too impatient to teach his brother).

Patrick - those books sound like excellent suggestions. That's what I'm looking for - lots of action and adventures.

Spacebunny - many thanks. History is his favorite subject, and I just perused the Abeka book his school will be using. It's a rather superficial survey of North America, South America, and the Caribbean islands, with lots of AA heroes stuck in for good measure. He's accustomed to higher-level debates and discussions of various people and events at home, so I'm looking for something substantial.

Of course, he came home today furiously angry with me for clearing out his locker, insisting he had a good day and did not want to leave "his" school. Husband and I will discuss this later tonight. Gulp.

Anonymous WinstonWebb August 17, 2012 10:01 PM  

My god.
The posts on Scalzi's blog are like some sick game of One-Upmanship to see which [presumably] male commenter can be the most sensitive to femdom at large.

Anonymous JI August 17, 2012 11:07 PM  

I've read a few of Scalzi's books and find him to be simply just another liberal in the modern Western sense of the word. Good to see Vox take him to the woodshed!

Anonymous Suomynona August 17, 2012 11:35 PM  

The typical leftist response to any and all logical arguments against the many absurdities and lies of their ideology always reminds me of that movie, "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers" where the pod people will point and shriek whenever they find someone who is not one of them. Watch this short youtube clip and tell me this isn't exactly how all leftists react to anyone who uses logic and truth against them.

Anonymous tiredofitall August 18, 2012 5:29 AM  

My problem with Scalzi was that he failed to see how his own logic also applied to the women offended by the "creepers".

Mainly: "Acknowledge that you don’t get to define other people’s comfort level with you."

If I am not allowed to venture out to a public place and not automatically be seen as a thought-criminal, why in the hell should I not assume that the woman standing to the left of me in line at a seminar is plotting something against me?

In all likelihood she's not, but that way is how far too many women think. They assume danger where there is none, and most of the time it's men who pay the price for their paranoia.

Anonymous Redjack August 18, 2012 9:54 AM  

By looks of it, any of the Scifi convention crowd that sees a women (model or not) are being advised to run the other way. From the picture Scalzi is painting of his fans, they must be all short, fat, and hairy with zero social skills. So for the better feelings of the random women who attend such events, they should just go away and never return.

Ok, he is like many artists. He hates those who pay for his work, and wishes they would all die.

Anonymous Gx1080 August 18, 2012 6:34 PM  

Liberal hypocrisy is just "false equivalence" because they are the shining defenders of women and minorities, don't you know?

Watching pukes like him masturbating to their own self-righteousness is extremely unsufferable.

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