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Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Mitt Romney, Republican Totalitarian

Keep this shenanigan in mind if you still think that Mitt Romney is a fine, upstanding man who will turn the country around:
Listening to the announcement of delegates for the candidates, from the podium they are omitting any votes for other than Mitt Romney. But not all the votes are for Mitt Romney. Ron Paul and Rick Santorum have some votes. They're being intentionally ignored. Not counted and then announced that he didn't win, ignored as if they never happened.
For those who claim Obama is orders of magnitude worse than Romney, note that even the famously narcissistic Obama didn't try to pretend that no one voted for Hillary Clinton at the 2008 DNC. The vote totals were 3,188.5 for Obama and 1,010.5 for Clinton. And while I no longer read National Review on a regular basis, I correctly anticipated that they would have some mention of this. John Fund explained what was going on behind Team Romney's attempt to present a false front of party unity:

The proposed rules package surfaced last Friday as Team Romney moved to grant sweeping new powers to the Republican National Committee — and the Romney forces who now control it – to amend the governing documents of the Grand Old Party just about any time they want without a vote of delegates from the grassroots.... Team Romney was able to ram the proposed changes through the Rules Committee but a substantial minority, some 40 percent, vociferously objected.

Mitt Romney has revealed himself to be a centralist and a totalitarian with no respect for the rule of law. I don't see how anyone who supported Ron Paul can, in good conscience, vote for the man this fall.

UPDATE: "The Republican National Committee is not transparent and does not have integrity. They stole votes. They stole delegates. They refused to send busses for our delegates. It's a totalitarian process. This is not democracy. It's a really sad day for us. I've worked for Republican candidates since I was 16. We believed the Republican Party had more integrity. Boy, did they prove us wrong."

UPDATE II: Republicans demonstrate their respect for the rules: Delegates from Nevada tried to nominate Mr. Paul from the floor, submitting petitions from their own state as well as Minnesota, Maine, Iowa, Oregon, Alaska and the Virgin Islands. That should have done the trick: Rules require signatures from just five states. But the party changed the rules on the spot. Henceforth, delegates must gather petitions from eight states.

Labels:

132 Comments:

Blogger Shimshon August 29, 2012 4:22 AM  

This would be my guess as to RP just seemed to throw in the towel in June, even though he had a good shot at amassing more than enough delegates to put his name in contention, even if the chance of him winning was nil. I wouldn't be surprised if he was told in no uncertain terms that there was no way he would even get nominated. Hell, politics is so dirty and the money involved so huge I wouldn't even be surprised if he was told people close to him would meet an untimely demise if he rocked the boat too much. I doubt threats against him would've worked. But those close to him? Sure.

Vox, did you hear Peter Schiff's interview with Gary Johnson? Even a pretty good libertarian like Peter buys into the "lesser of two evils" and "most importanest election evah!!!" crap and told Johnson outright that if his state were close, he'd vote for Romney over Johnson, because, of course, anyone but Obama MUST WIN! Sadly, Peter is almost certainly not the only Paul supporter who thinks Obama must be defeated at all costs.

Anonymous VD August 29, 2012 4:28 AM  

I suspect those who heard my interview on Schiff's show are aware what I think of his analytical abilities. He's got his heart in the right place, I will say that for him.

Anonymous AdognamedOp August 29, 2012 4:47 AM  

At this point, it makes more sense to vote for the worserer of the two evils than sit around prolonging the inevitable. Time will only ensure a lesser creed fighting in our stead. If I could speak Latin I'd make a motto.

Anonymous zen0 August 29, 2012 5:23 AM  

The first mention of this I saw was a comment by a RP supporter who wrote that they would now vote directly for Obama. May become a trend.

Anonymous Anonymous August 29, 2012 5:43 AM  

If you're in the mood, then perhaps your next WND column could take a look at the socialist bosses of Romney, versus the socialist bosses of Obama.

The Socialist Bosses are easily identifiable as those seeking to forge .gov into their tool of complete control and power over all of industry, banking, etc.

As with New Age, which has as its central theme the practical practice of the occult, there are many apparently disparate (but greatly influential) interest groups that have the same functional Path to their specific goal.
That is what socialism, in practice, becomes: centralized, unassailable, power for those who rule the politicians. (And is transformed into communism when the bureaucrats rise up and kill their bosses.)

Romney is a blatantly obvious shill for the Bosses (Obama is, also, obviously nothing more than a tool - as was GW: a weak fool, a puppet).
One might think that an 'emergency' during Romney's reign, with the resultant permanent assumption of powers, would lead directly to his being followed by Fuhrer.USA.gov...

But what if it is be Romney himself?
Under one scenario, given that Romney makes my sociopath-radar scream bloody murder, he would become The 'Benevolent' Bureaucrat Caesar.
Under a variant of this, the coming 'Dictator' will be abstracted into the various bureaucracies, where the President, the legal system, the congress, the house, being nothing more than a puppet-show... oh wait, that's already happened over the past few years :-)

Death may come by the violent application of cotton wool tools, but death it would be nonetheless.

-CB

Anonymous Anonymous August 29, 2012 5:50 AM  

Oh dear, I was thinking of a completely different shenanigan!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/08/28/Palin-Conservatives-Urge-RNC-Delegates-To-Reject-Rule-Changes-Establishment-Power-Grab

-CB.

Anonymous Roundtine August 29, 2012 5:51 AM  

The first mention of this I saw was a comment by a RP supporter who wrote that they would now vote directly for Obama. May become a trend.
We can money bomb a new super PAC and film ads in which 2012 first-time Obama voters describe their large short positions on the stock market or their gold holdings. I bet Putin is good for a $20 donation.

Anonymous Rantor August 29, 2012 6:11 AM  

Since I had to know, Here is the vote according to Dailypaul.com. "The final delegate vote count was 2,061 for Mitt Romney; 190 for Ron Paul; nine for Rick Santorum; one for Buddy Roehmer; one for Jon Hunstman; one for Michele Bachmann; and 18 abstentions."

So overwhelming, no reason not to let the vote be properly tallied. But Reince Priebus has a little too much authoritarian blood running through his veins.

Anonymous Conrad The Crazed August 29, 2012 6:11 AM  

I and a few (sadly too few) others expected this sort of behavior from the GOP going back to the 2008 primary. Once I saw how the establishment treated RP, and how they intentionally tanked the 2008 election by having Romney drop out early and endorse Juan McInsane so that Soetoro/Hussein/Obama/whatever the hell his name really is could win....I knew elections were a complete and total sham, and that Willard was going to be the nominee in 2012 regardless of what happened in the interim.

This primary season only further demonstrated the level of outright fraud and corruption running rampant in the establishment GOP. The last minute rule-changes, the blatant violations of said rules when they still don't yield the desired result, the repeated efforts to deny RP the multi-state plurality of delegates he won, and even the physical blockading of 'certain' delegations to the convention before rules changes were voted upon, etc etc etc. The documented examples are legion.

The long train of abuses (as Jefferson so aptly noted) has long since crossed the proverbial Rubicon. Thinking back to my early years, I never thought I'd see the day when this country literally became a banana republic. Yet here we are, and apparently the majority of us don't seem to have too big a problem with it.

Oh well, it doesn't matter. There is only one option left to restore the shattered republic. The modern day loyalists may again outnumber the patriots, but the result will be the same as it was 236 years ago.


Anonymous VryeDenker August 29, 2012 6:16 AM  

" The vote totals were 3,188.5 for Obama and 1,010.5 for Clinton".

Pardon my insolence, but how does one get half a vote?

Anonymous Rantor August 29, 2012 6:20 AM  

When even Rush speaks out against the RNC and Romney (OK he knows Romney is a RINO) ...

From John Fund's article: "Soon conservatives were weighing in against the rules changes from all over. Rush Limbaugh used his radio show to call them an attack by the Republican establishment against conservatives."

While he will support the RINO ticket, because, like many he just wants Obama out of office, at least he still knows a little about vote counting and democracy. Something the RNC no longer cares about.

Anonymous TLM August 29, 2012 6:22 AM  

This is nothing, wait til the Mormon Mafia takes office. These crazy cult bastards are evil and sneaky. You Christian fools that vote for him get what you deserve.

Blogger James Dixon August 29, 2012 6:22 AM  

> At this point, it makes more sense to vote for the worserer of the two evils than sit around prolonging the inevitable.

At this point, all that voting for the lesser of two evils does is prolong the inevitable.

I had no illusions about Romney, and never intended to vote for him.

I don't think this was aimed directly at Ron Paul though. I think it was more an attempt to keep Sarah Palin and the tea party activists in check..

Anonymous Rantor August 29, 2012 6:25 AM  

TLM reminded me, this is just like Mormon voting. Every year at the church's worldwide conference the membership votes their support for the Prophet, Seer and Revelator leading the church. Only the Aye votes count, if you vote against the President of the church you are quietly led out and must minimally be counselled if not ultimately excommunicated.

Perhaps Good Will can enlighten us on Mormon-style democracy.

Blogger Dan Hewitt August 29, 2012 6:28 AM  

"F___ You, Tyrants!": Ron Paul Supporters Rebel On Convention Floor

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/08/ron-paul-supporters-rebel-convention-floor-fuck-you-tyrants

Anonymous VryeDenker August 29, 2012 6:31 AM  

"This is nothing, wait til the Mormon Mafia takes office. These crazy cult bastards are evil and sneaky. You Christian fools that vote for him get what you deserve."

Silly little citizen, thinking the government is run by the president and congress.

Anonymous Rantor August 29, 2012 6:40 AM  

Remember Harry Reid is a Mormon politician... more of the same with Romney?

Blogger njartist August 29, 2012 6:41 AM  

@ Conrad,
"The modern day loyalists may again outnumber the patriots, but the result will be the same as it was 236 years ago."

No. it won't be: this time the commercial, moneyed class is the oppressive class.

Anonymous Eh so what August 29, 2012 6:45 AM  

It is already a mathematical certainty that Romney will be nominated, so who gives a crap if the irrelevant losers are ignored?

"no respect for the rule of law"? The announcement of delegates at the political convention is NOT governed by the rule of law. There may be other reasons to think this, but what happens at the GOP convention is not evidence of this.

Blogger njartist August 29, 2012 6:46 AM  

The time has come to go from saying the parties are but two sides of the same coin to them being two sides of the same slug.

Anonymous DT August 29, 2012 6:54 AM  

Is it just me, or is America just one big game of Calvinball?

Blogger LP 999/Eliza August 29, 2012 7:02 AM  

I fully expected this, not surprised at all.

Anonymous VD August 29, 2012 7:02 AM  

There may be other reasons to think this, but what happens at the GOP convention is not evidence of this.

Totally false. They were changing the rules on the spot. That is conclusive evidence of the lack of respect for the rule of law.

"Delegates from Nevada tried to nominate Mr. Paul from the floor, submitting petitions from their own state as well as Minnesota, Maine, Iowa, Oregon, Alaska and the Virgin Islands. That should have done the trick: Rules require signatures from just five states. But the party changed the rules on the spot. Henceforth, delegates must gather petitions from eight states."

Blogger Parrothead Al August 29, 2012 7:05 AM  

I decided to not vote after voting in every national election since I was 18 in 1976. Withholding consent for the Red versus Blue Team farce is the best (only)option left, for now. Driving the freeways in Houston I see very few Obama or Romney stickers on cars. In the Bush versus Gore or Kerry elections, a lot of bumper stickers, and they stayed on for years, both Bush and Gore/Kerry. A few people know things are bad and why, many more I think have a gut feel about how bad, but don't know exactly why.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza August 29, 2012 7:06 AM  

When and if RomObm install TSA checkpoints, fema camps and 'turn your gun in for some food vouchers' day no one will complain b/c its their guy. When Goldman or any other banker trash pull some theft no one will mind. And when the police staters ramp up whatever fear mongering they aim at, they will be successful. The die is cast, America...is not in for a turnaround.

I hope to be proven wrong.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza August 29, 2012 7:08 AM  

Wait up on changing votes. There was footage of a vote change or some kind of an error. There was a ballot or card that had Ron paul but they counted it for Rom. It took place later in the day after 3pm on CNN.

Anonymous GmBH August 29, 2012 7:23 AM  

Giving unilateral party control to the devil-worshipping Mormon? What could go wrong?

Anonymous VD August 29, 2012 7:27 AM  

Giving unilateral party control to the devil-worshipping Mormon? What could go wrong?

(laughs, nods)

Anonymous Holla August 29, 2012 7:30 AM  

What do you want from a mormon?

Anonymous Josh August 29, 2012 7:34 AM  

So, now that Romney has pissed off between 5 and 10% of the republican base, how does he expect to win if even half of those people refuse to vote for him?

Anonymous Flinders August 29, 2012 7:42 AM  

But... but... this is the mostest importantist election ever! Surely not a time to be following conventions, laws, precedents, good manners and the like.

Romney will repeal Obamacare and then the USA will be saved!

Anonymous Mr Green Man August 29, 2012 7:44 AM  

All my R-uber-alles friends have already told me, "Do you think Obama is better?" in response to this news. Of course that's the choice. Rush Limbaugh has often stumbled blindly into the truth eventually. He used to say -- if the Republican nominee alienates traditional Republican voters, they will stay home. They won't switch sides; they just will wait at home, pray for Jesus to come faster, and grit their teeth in expectation of the deluge. That's all this heavy-handedness will do. I expect Romney will lose about 2.5% nationally over this, but Maine is definitely out of the running to flip Republican, and Nevada is probably lost to Romney, which starts to bite at his 3-2-1 strategy.

And all this over something so petty as the Ron Paul people wanting to see if they got 5% or 15% of the votes in a convention election that they new already was going to nominate Mitt Romney overwhelmingly? How petty is this man, Romney?

Anonymous tdm August 29, 2012 7:46 AM  

Once many years ago I read the book of Mormon (every word). It was easy to see it was (as Hugh Ross would say) a humanly crafted fraud. I had a friend in the church where I was a member (before it went "purpose driven") who was in a group which witnessed to cults. Every year they went on a mission trip to some big Mormon meeting in Utah to witness for Christ. Has the American Church moved to a place where Mormons are now accepted as fellow Christians?

Anonymous Baseball Savant August 29, 2012 7:46 AM  

I think I'm going to vote for Obama.

Anonymous No_Limit_Bubba™ August 29, 2012 7:49 AM  

I disagree with Democrats. Their world view is flawed and they don't understand basic accounting and economics.This makes them dangerous.

I loathe Republicans. They say all the right things (Christie gave a great speech, last night.); but... they lie. They represent false hope and are...evil.

Until the convention shenanagins, I had a higher opinion of Romney...

Will be voting for Gary Johnson in November!

Blogger IM2L844 August 29, 2012 7:49 AM  

I'm shocked! SHOCKED I tells ya. Who could have ever seen something like this coming?

Blogger Shimshon August 29, 2012 7:53 AM  

I'd like to see a commercial, a la the old Bud Light ("tastes great!" "less filling!") campaign. It would be two Romney supporters, and "most important election ever!" versus "lesser of two evils!" Then they can duke it out. That's really how consequential elections are anyways. About as much as beer commercials.

Anonymous TLM August 29, 2012 8:08 AM  

tdm
Has the American Church moved to a place where Mormons are now accepted as fellow Christians?

Yes. The Mormons began a marketing campaign a few years back with a series of commercials that give the impression that LDS is nothing more than another sect of Christianity. And of course the Scripturally ignorant "Christians" took the bait. I'm sure Goodwill will show up soon here and he, being a Mormon, also claims that Mormonism is in fact Christianity. I don't know who to despise more, the Mormons or the dips@it "Christians" that buy their propaganda.

Blogger Shimshon August 29, 2012 8:31 AM  

Vox, maybe a poll is in order to see who people plan to vote for this November (if anyone)?

Anonymous Salt August 29, 2012 8:31 AM  

It's amazing America was given a second chance. And for the second time preferred evil. Then again, perhaps it wasn't a second chance but the second source of testimony.

... at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. - Deut. 19

Anonymous Rantor August 29, 2012 8:46 AM  

Speaking of which, as I grew up Mormon, it is amazing how they won't let go. I have written the LDS asking to be removed from their rolls and some months later they sent me a "no." Now some 7 years later I get a letter from a local LDS leader, to which again I will tell them to take a hike. They do believe they are the only true church and that you can only leave if they excommunicate you. No freedom in that. So why not a Mormon election at the convention. Bunch o' Borg wannabes.

Blogger The Anti-Gnostic August 29, 2012 8:51 AM  

OBAMA 2012 - Let's get it over with

Anonymous Greatheart August 29, 2012 8:51 AM  

Rantor, I suppose you could go to their World meeting and not vote for the church leaders, maybe they will excommunicate you and you'll get some reprieve. Just a thought...lol

Anonymous RINO August 29, 2012 8:53 AM  

What exactly did you expect would happen when a bunch of non-Republicans tried to infiltrate the Republican convention?

Anonymous scoobius dubious August 29, 2012 8:55 AM  

OT, but this little gem is from the Mother Jones link...

"a pack of angry Paul fans all clad in white ballcaps"

Who the hell writes like this? You aren't "clad" in a hat, and WTF is a "ballcap"? Is it a cap one wears to a formal ball? I kept thinking of Elton John's ski hat with the pinball for a pom-pom in "Tommy". Plus, Ron Paul supporters aren't "fans", they are political allies who give determined support to a serious candidate for President of the Republic, not "fans" of a pop singer. What sort of twee, detached, never-been-to-America, NPR-listening writer would... oh yeah, right, Mother Jones, I forgot.

"I disagree with Democrats. Their world view is flawed and they don't understand basic accounting and economics. This makes them dangerous."

Oh come now: they understand accounting and economics perfectly well (remember who it is that owns the party). It's just that they don't care: they are trying to manipulate accounting and economics and all sorts of other things, in order to get what they want; and what they want isn't good for you. Which makes them still happier, because part of why they want what they want, is that it's specifically bad for you.



Anonymous Salt August 29, 2012 8:56 AM  

Kirk: [Explaining Spock's odd behavior] Oh, him? He's harmless. Back in the sixties, he was part of the free speech movement at Berkeley. I think he did a little too much LDS.

Dr. Gillian Taylor: LDS?


Blogger James Dixon August 29, 2012 9:09 AM  

> How petty is this man, Romney?

Yep. That's exactly the question my wife was asking me this morning. She's seriously reconsidering her vote at this point, and she was firmly in the "anyone is better than Obama" camp.

Not that it matters. Romney will win WV by a landslide, no matter how either of us votes.

> I'm shocked! SHOCKED I tells ya.

Your winnings, sir. :)

Anonymous Josh August 29, 2012 9:16 AM  

What exactly did you expect would happen when a bunch of non-Republicans tried to infiltrate the Republican convention?

They weren't "non-republicans", they were duly elected delegates to the republican convention, elected by their county and state conventions. You could argue that, being delegates they're even more republican than you.

Blogger Joshua_D August 29, 2012 9:24 AM  

This may be a good thing. It seems that most people need to experience democracy good and hard to start getting the picture.

Anonymous Mr Green Man August 29, 2012 9:26 AM  

They are fundraising on the nomination. If they call you, don't let them give the spiel. Just very politely directly tell them that you don't want to hear from GOP party leadership after what they did to Ron Paul's delegates. You have to starve beasts into submission.

Blogger IM2L844 August 29, 2012 9:30 AM  

RINO:
What exactly did you expect would happen when a bunch of non-Republicans tried to infiltrate the Republican convention?

Josh:
They weren't "non-republicans", they were duly elected delegates to the republican convention, elected by their county and state conventions. You could argue that, being delegates they're even more republican than you.


Maybe RINO was talking about the leftist Neo-Con coup of the 70's

Anonymous Steveo August 29, 2012 9:32 AM  

If you are voting for evil, whether it be the lesser - or the greater...
how is God supposed to work with your decision?

Vote for the righteous man and let God do His part.
I'm voting for Ron Paul if I have to write him in.

In whom do you trust?

Anonymous Stilicho August 29, 2012 9:35 AM  

KD got it right in the linked post: just vote for Beelzebub and get it over with. Quit pussyfooting around with the likes of Obama and Romney.

Anonymous Mr Green Man August 29, 2012 9:39 AM  

@VryeDenker:

Pardon my insolence, but how does one get half a vote?

I think they penalized Florida for an early primary by cutting their votes in half. It's a fairly common thing to try to tame the primary schedule, which doesn't work, and then usually the well-connected get those halves converted to wholes.

Anonymous DT August 29, 2012 9:45 AM  

I give up. I'm not voting. Whatever argument I could make for Romney being the lesser of two evils can easily be countered. We're going to hell in a hand basket regardless of whether the basket is red or blue.

The sooner the Federal government goes bankrupt, the better. That's about the only thing that's going to stop the morons in charge.

Anonymous Daniel August 29, 2012 9:51 AM  

" The vote totals were 3,188.5 for Obama and 1,010.5 for Clinton".

VryeDenker
Pardon my insolence, but how does one get half a vote?

Both candidates were bi at the time, for the sake of decorum. It's what happens when math is allowed out of the closet.

The opposite is true with the GOP. Math stays in the closet and Romney gets unanimous support from Ron Paul backers.

Anonymous Joel August 29, 2012 10:12 AM  

Speaking of which, as I grew up Mormon, it is amazing how they won't let go. I have written the LDS asking to be removed from their rolls and some months later they sent me a "no." Now some 7 years later I get a letter from a local LDS leader, to which again I will tell them to take a hike. They do believe they are the only true church and that you can only leave if they excommunicate you. No freedom in that. So why not a Mormon election at the convention. Bunch o' Borg wannabes.

Same thing with my father, Rantor. He both entered and then after some time left the Mormon church as a young man. He's still on their rolls, despite having asked numerous times to be removed from them.

Of course, we have to remember that in Mormon theology the *only* people who go to hell are ex-Mormon apostates. Even Hitler is in the third level of Mormon heaven (the "Telestial" Kingdom), a place purported to be so great that Joseph Smith said that if you got even a glimpse of it in this life you'd immediately kill yourself to go there.

And this is where all the non-Mormon lowlifes get to go after death. Which means there is zero justice in Mormonism. So why should we be surprised when Romney suspends rule of law for his own sake? As long as Romney remains a Mormon, he'll get his own god status no matter what else he does in this life. Might as well cheat and steal for your own earthly benefit while you still have the chance.

Blogger IM2L844 August 29, 2012 10:14 AM  

just vote for Beelzebub and get it over with.

Ha! Wouldn't that be a hoot? The timing would be impeccable with the return of the winged serpent scheduled for December 21st and all.

Anonymous Mr. Nightstick August 29, 2012 10:19 AM  

Hmm. Interesting stuff here.

Anonymous HappyMan August 29, 2012 10:26 AM  

Not cool man.

Anonymous III August 29, 2012 10:40 AM  

The sooner the Federal government goes bankrupt, the better. That's about the only thing that's going to stop the morons in charge.

That is just absolutely laughable. No one is going to stop the government when "the Federal government goes bankrupt" but you. Are you up to it? What about your neighbors? What about the other 300,000,000 plus people in AmeriKa? MILLIONS went/go to their deaths passively as some government goon shot them in the back of the head at the edge of mass graves.

You don't think the federal government(s) has not planned for this? Oh, that's right! The government is full of incompetent idiots. And here we are. Imagine not being able to buy or sell unless you have the mark of the beast. Sure, they lose in the end, but for the time being... here we are. Imagine where you will be while your feet are still firmly planted on earth.

You are in denial. Hope deferred will make your heart sick as it all blossoms in full living color before you.

Anonymous Eh who cares August 29, 2012 10:40 AM  

Totally false. They were changing the rules on the spot. That is conclusive evidence of the lack of respect for the rule of law.

Totally false. The rules that govern political conventions ARE NOT LAWS.

Another way to look at it: the "law" that governs the operation of the convention is that the strongest political faction decides the RULES and can change them however and whenever they wish.

Anonymous Mr Green Man August 29, 2012 10:46 AM  

@Eh who cares:

Another way to look at it: the "law" that governs the operation of the convention is that the strongest political faction decides the RULES and can change them however and whenever they wish.

To paraphrase the better Buffett, the Republicans sometimes aren't like this.

We all know that, as part of the Democrat Party package, it's all about party.

Part of the appeal of the "Gallant Old Party" is that they aren't supposed to be this corrupt, and they pass themselves off as more adherent to process than just the old Democrat political boss approach.

Now, of course, that's not true, and hasn't been true, but it's become more brazen. They hated the Reagan supporters in 1976, the Kemp and Robertson supporters in 1988, the Buchanan supporters in 1992, and the Paul supports in 2008...but they didn't switch the process then. We know GWB had no real respect for the process and operation of law. The veil is lifted, and so the pretense of respect for process -- which is the pretense of respect for law as well -- is just brazenly abandoned. Who would trust them to respect process once in office if they don't respect process getting into office?

The claim is not that the rules of conventions are laws, but that the "Gallants" used to pretend to be better than this.

Anonymous zen0 August 29, 2012 10:47 AM  

RINO August 29, 2012 8:53 AM

What exactly did you expect would happen when a bunch of non-Republicans tried to infiltrate the Republican convention?


Terminal cognitive dissonance or brilliant self-parody?

Let the audience decide!

Anonymous BAJ August 29, 2012 11:07 AM  

I seem to recall that there was a certain Republican President who crushed any opposition from those who would vote against him. Now who could that have been? Hmmm .... hmmm ... Lincoln? No! He saved this country, remember????!!!

Anonymous DonReynolds August 29, 2012 11:18 AM  

Vox, my fine fellow, I have said before that this election cycle is shaping up like 1952....all over again.....and not 1980, as some people like to say.

In 1952, a sitting president (Truman) was defeated in the primaries by Sen. Estes Kefauver from Tennessee. Not a man to take defeat lightly, the Truman faction torpedoed Kefauver at the democratic convention in favor of a political newcomer Gov. Adlai Stevenson from Illinois, who was not even a candidate in the primaries!

In 1952, the Eisenhower faction pulled all kinds of shenanigans at the republican convention, including replacing delegates and refusing to seat others from southern states, in order to wrest the nomination from Taft (of Ohio), which seriously split the party. Ike was the first Republican president elected since Hoover, in large part with votes from disgusted democrats. The Taft voters never forgave Eisenhower for trampling them underfoot.

Anonymous JI August 29, 2012 11:19 AM  

After this happening there is zero possibility I'll vote for Romney. Well, there was less than a 1% chance previously. But now I will vote any way to spite him. Even if it means, shudder, ... Actually, now that I think about it, why bother voting? Complete waste of time.

Anonymous George August 29, 2012 11:37 AM  

This is a non-story as far as political power and capabilities are concerned.

The RNC controls a great deal of money that will be doled out to various campaigns. They make the rules.

But more importantly, until you see the SuperPacs make a stink over this, then it just doesn't matter. The SuperPacs control the process. And there are no SuperPacs of any import that support Paul or his ideas. Further, the SuperPacs that supposedly embody the ideas of the "Tea Party" are in fact most concerned with beating Obama, putting them squarely in the RNC camp.

There's nothing important here.

Blogger Good Will August 29, 2012 11:43 AM  

TLM August 29, 2012 6:22 AM
This is nothing, wait til the Mormon Mafia takes office. These crazy cult bastards are evil and sneaky. You Christian fools that vote for him get what you deserve.


You're crazy.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 29, 2012 11:44 AM  

Voting for the lesser of two evils is like putting a bandaid on a splinter, rather than pull out the splinter.

Yes, pulling out a splinter will hurt at the time but leaving it in your skin will quickly fester and inflame.

Either the body will reject the splinter in time or the infection will spread and lead to blood poisons. Along the way, the splinter will get more annoying.

Anonymous Josh August 29, 2012 11:57 AM  

You're crazy.

Says the man with the magic underwear...

Blogger Good Will August 29, 2012 12:02 PM  

Rantor August 29, 2012 6:25 AM
TLM reminded me, this is just like Mormon voting... Perhaps Good Will can enlighten us on Mormon-style democracy.


Okay, I will.

Just last Sunday our bishop read a letter from the First Presidency of the Church, reminding all members that the Church remains politically neutral and does not endorse one party or candidate over another.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/official-statement/political-neutrality

While the Church DOES encourage its members to be politically active and involved in their communities (world-wide), Church resources, pulpits, directories, etc., are not to be used by candidates or parties for political purposes.

However, there have been exceptions to this rule. The Prop 8 initiative, amending California's constitution to define "marriage" as the legal unification of "one man and one woman" was deemed by the prophet of the Church to be a moral, religious and social issue transcending politics, worthy of Church participation. The Church threw its resources into persuading the people of California to uphold "one man-one woman" marriage, which Californians did...only to have the democratic will of the people overturned by judges.

Remember, virtually everyone running for office in Utah is Mormon. Mormons don't see "being Mormon" as a particular "qualifier" for being a good governor, mayor or president. (Salt Lake City has elected several prominent non-Mormon leaders.) I don't think most (U.S.) Mormons are "eager" to have Romney as president. If he does poorly, it would do the Church more harm than good. We'd be happy if he just helped steer the country toward more Constitutionally-founded policies and practices.

Anonymous Noah B. August 29, 2012 12:11 PM  

At this point, I vastly prefer an Obama win, mostly because he is better understood by conservatives than Romney is and will face some degree of opposition, however pathetically milquetoast that opposition may be.

Anonymous 11B August 29, 2012 12:11 PM  

I think the time has come to breakup the GOP and leave. There is no point remaining. The party in its present form will be dead in a few election cycles anyway due to demographics. And given that republicans won't address this, as exemplified by their lack of action when they held power, it makes no sense to attach oneself to a dead horse. I am not saying a third party will eventually become successful. But I do know that the GOP is a dead end.

Anonymous The CronoLink August 29, 2012 12:14 PM  

Wow, the Stupid Party lives up to its name, huh? I really hope they shoot themselves in the groin in this coming election.

Blogger Good Will August 29, 2012 12:20 PM  

Rantor August 29, 2012 6:40 AM
Remember Harry Reid is a Mormon politician... more of the same with Romney?


Hairy Reid is the ball-sucking spawn of Satan himself. Being a Mormon doesn't make one righteous, honest or good. Hairy Reid demonstrates that.

For comparison, this blogger re-posts several articles that highlight the character and faith of the Romneys. Unlike those who tout their virtues, the Romneys downplay their "good works", which have been many.

While I remain concerned that Romney is not a "true conservative", I have no doubt that he is a good man. He is not a messiah. But he is about as good a POTUS as the U.S. deserves to have. In fact, I think we will be lucky if we get him.

Anonymous E. PERLINE August 29, 2012 12:27 PM  

When I was young I thought I was a hot shot artist. I wanted to be an artist- illustrator. By dumb luck, I became a student of one of the greatest artist-illustrators.

From that experience I concluded that if you want to be a great guitar builder, you should learn from a great guitar builder, even if at first you work for nothing.

By the same token if you want to be prosperous. associate with someone who is prosperous (Romney) Economics is too far removed from all that.

Anonymous Philalethes August 29, 2012 12:27 PM  

P"If This Goes On—" is a science fiction short novel by Robert A. Heinlein, first serialized in 1940 in Astounding Science-Fiction and revised and expanded for inclusion in the 1953 collection Revolt in 2100. The novel shows what might happen to Christianity in the United States given mass communications, applied psychology, and a hysterical populace. The novel is part of Heinlein's Future History series.

The story is set in a future theocratic American society, ruled by the latest in a series of fundamentalist Christian “Prophets.” The First Prophet was Nehemiah Scudder, a backwoods preacher turned President (elected in 2012), then dictator (no elections were held in 2016 or later).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_This_Goes_On—

Blogger Good Will August 29, 2012 12:28 PM  

GmBH August 29, 2012 7:23 AM
Giving unilateral party control to the devil-worshipping Mormon? What could go wrong?

VD August 29, 2012 7:27 AM
Giving unilateral party control to the devil-worshipping Mormon? What could go wrong?

(laughs, nods)


John 10:19-20:

19 ¶There was a division therefore again among [them] ...

20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

Blogger James Dixon August 29, 2012 12:29 PM  

> I think the time has come to breakup the GOP and leave.

It was time for that 20 years ago.

> While I remain concerned that Romney is not a "true conservative", I have no doubt that he is a good man.

People said that Jimmy Carter was a good man too.

Anonymous RINO August 29, 2012 12:29 PM  

Being a delegate has nothing to do with how much of a Republican someone is. With the right coordination anyone could do it.

On the other hand if someone finds only 1 Republican presidential candidate acceptable out of a pool of 22 combined candidates in 2008 and 2012, that's generally a good hint that they're in the wrong place.

Anonymous Josh August 29, 2012 12:39 PM  

We'd be happy if he just helped steer the country toward more Constitutionally-founded policies and practices.

Prepare to be disappointed, because Romney has no intention of following the constitution.

Anonymous Josh August 29, 2012 12:42 PM  

Being a delegate has nothing to do with how much of a Republican someone is. With the right coordination anyone could do it.On the other hand if someone finds only 1 Republican presidential candidate acceptable out of a pool of 22 combined candidates in 2008 and 2012, that's generally a good hint that they're in the wrong place.

You're seriously going to play the "no true Republican" card?

What's your litmus test for a true Republican, then?

And which of those 22 candidates did you find acceptable?

Blogger Good Will August 29, 2012 12:43 PM  

TLM August 29, 2012 8:08 AM
tdm
Has the American Church moved to a place where Mormons are now accepted as fellow Christians?

Yes. The Mormons began a marketing campaign a few years back with a series of commercials that give the impression that LDS is nothing more than another sect of Christianity. And of course the Scripturally ignorant "Christians" took the bait. I'm sure Goodwill will show up soon here and he, being a Mormon, also claims that Mormonism is in fact Christianity. I don't know who to despise more, the Mormons or the dips@it "Christians" that buy their propaganda.


To refute TLM's contention that Mormons aren't Christians, I invite all to review these posts (here and here) by an LDS author and scholar I profoundly respect.

'Nuf said.

Anonymous JP (real one) August 29, 2012 12:45 PM  

>>The story is set in a future theocratic American society, ruled by the latest in a series of fundamentalist Christian “Prophets.” <<

Yawn. Are you a fan of the Handmaiden's Tale as well?

I'm no fan of Romney's Mormonism, but the only theocracy we're in danger of is a secular one. Feminists, gays, atheists, etc. would have no problem lording their new religion over everyone else. Some far-Left academics have even suggested such. They have no problem doing away with 1st Amendment and other rights for anyone they deem as "backwards fundamentalists."

For Heaven's sake, you can't even name your son "Hunter" if you want to send him to a gov't indoctrination center (i.e, public school). Maybe Biblical names will be next. I can see it now: "Neither of Zowie's two mommies want their child to hear names like 'Abraham,' 'David' or others related to a misogynistic, homophobic, antiquated worldview..."

Blogger Good Will August 29, 2012 12:52 PM  

Rantor August 29, 2012 8:46 AM
Speaking of which, as I grew up Mormon, it is amazing how they won't let go. I have written the LDS asking to be removed from their rolls and some months later they sent me a "no." Now some 7 years later I get a letter from a local LDS leader, to which again I will tell them to take a hike. They do believe they are the only true church and that you can only leave if they excommunicate you. No freedom in that. So why not a Mormon election at the convention. Bunch o' Borg wannabes.


Rantor,

The LDS Church's "membership" policy is simple. If you don't want to belong, don't get baptized. If you no longer wish to belong, contact a local priesthood leader (or the Church headquarters directly) and submit a written request to have your name removed from the records of the Church. The process takes about a month.

The confirmation letter you receive will include an invitation to return (by getting re-baptized, etc.), should you ever choose to do so.

Anonymous TLM August 29, 2012 1:02 PM  

GW
Thats funny. A man whose life revolves around being nothing more than a fanboy of joseph smith calling me crazy. Pot, kettle, black.

Anonymous oregon mouse August 29, 2012 1:02 PM  

I'd always been told growing up that even the worst republican is better the the best democrat, republicans are the pro-life party so nothing else matters, and all sorts of similair nonsense. hubby and i have been totally dissolutioned over the past 4 years that we've actually been paying attention.
As I said previously, hubby and I were precinct people at the oregon state convention. Tampa doesn't surprise me at all though I must admit the attitude still blows me away. The party leaders had to change the rules and centralize the decision making because Ron Paul people changed out so many of the state level office holders. It's almost a sign of libertarian success if you look at it that way. I agree with Vox's view that at least with Obama the republicans have to put up a token resistence to set themselves apart. The party deserves to see its base stay home. We are not serfs. They need to be rebuked. if i can't write Ron Paul in I'm voting for Rosanne Barr. Even scary lebesians need some love.

Anonymous a good ROI August 29, 2012 1:16 PM  

"This may be a good thing. It seems that most people need to experience democracy good and hard to start getting the picture."

Except it is not getting enough coverage by those glassy eyed TV viewers.

Anonymous glacierman August 29, 2012 1:25 PM  

GW, so by saying that Romney is a "good man" do you equate his Mormon beliefs to his standing by and not so much as making a mouse-squeak in standing up for the rules of the game? By Romney not calling bull on the game-changing that went on regarding Ron Paul, he is in fact endorsing this position. What brilliant morals in this RINO!!!

What kind of character does this man have? The chink in the armour has been revealed and that will be exploited and used against him for the next four years should he become President.

Achilles Heal

(And your assertion that your name will be stricken from the LDS Member's list if false. Take a look at the worldwide members list and match it to the dollars that are (forcibly) received in the tithing system. The numbers don't add up. You can run, but you can never hide)

Your cult is based on lies from the deceiving angel-of-light, Moroni. May your eyes and ears be opened to that truth!!

Anonymous oregon mouse August 29, 2012 1:26 PM  

RINO the libertarians are a throw back to pre-WWII republicans. we have as much right to change the party as the neo-cons did over the last 30 years.

Anonymous Kiwi the Geek August 29, 2012 1:30 PM  

A long time ago Vox debunked the fallacy that not voting R doesn't mean a vote for D. I can't remember the details, but I'm sure he used words the average high-school graduate wouldn't understand. As a public service, (and because I'm sick and tired of hearing it) I've come up with two ways to reply to the eternal refrain, that even a republicrat drone should be able to comprehend.

When the Vikings miss a touchdown pass, do the Packers get 6 more points on the board? Of course it will be easier for them to win, but they have to accomplish something to score the points. They don't get any direct benefits from the other team's failure.

Here's a conundrum: Many of my friends tell me that if I don't vote for Romney, it's a vote for Obama. My dad tells me just as desperately that if I don't vote for Obama it's a vote for Romney. So when I refuse to vote for either one, which of them will get my vote?

Anonymous Mrs. Pilgrim August 29, 2012 1:48 PM  

Looks like I'll be writing in Montgomery Brewster after all.

None of the above!

Blogger James Dixon August 29, 2012 2:10 PM  

> Many of my friends tell me that if I don't vote for Romney, it's a vote for Obama. My dad tells me just as desperately that if I don't vote for Obama it's a vote for Romney. So when I refuse to vote for either one, which of them will get my vote?

Both, obviously. :)

And with today's voting machines and voter fraud, that is a distinct possibility. :(

Anonymous TLM August 29, 2012 2:22 PM  

GW
I went to your links but nothing was there? Except for some on-line ads for Mormon.org that prominently featured a black man. You guys are shameless with regards to covering up your past and rebooting your message to gain mammon & power.

Around the mid-90s, LDS began to deny it ever taught that blacks were the cursed and inferior children of Cain, fit only, at best, to be servants of white Mormons in heaven. I know you deny that now, but it is what your cult taught from its inception. I bet many older Mormons still hold to the old-school LDS teaching and would be appalled if some home boy walked into temple asking "Where the white women at?".

Anonymous Klaatu Fabrice Aquinas August 29, 2012 2:38 PM  

Good Will, I'm sorry, but someone must take you down...

A person who says they believe in Jesus of Nazareth, but at same time says he is the Son of God, but, not God himself; is NOT a Christian...

Until the LDS (and any other body claiming to be Christian) confesses and affirms the following, they are NOT considered part of the Body of Christ (corpus christi):

Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Essence of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Essence of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood by God. One altogether; not by confusion of Essence; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

Giving unilateral party control to the devil-worshipping Mormon? What could go wrong?

VD: (laughs, nods)


To all LDS et al, I'm sorry, but what you hold dear, is nothing more than a 19th century re-representation of a 7th century dogma, specifically for WHITE PEOPLE! (just love Tubular Smells)

For a full amplification by a former Full Temple Mormon...

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 29, 2012 2:48 PM  

The Repuke Party overlords need to just drop the pretense now and appoint a new central committee and politboro to carry out their wishes and purge the state organizations of any who depart from the party line. The structure of the "opposition" party is now virtually indistinguishable from that of the D-jerseys, or the good old communist party of the USSR. Take that, tea party patriots! (Most still won't get it, though. They'll continue to try and "reform" the unreformable.)

Anonymous Azimus August 29, 2012 2:55 PM  

DonReynolds August 29, 2012 11:18 AM
Not a man to take defeat lightly, the Truman faction torpedoed Kefauver at the democratic convention in favor of a political newcomer Gov. Adlai Stevenson from Illinois, who was not even a candidate in the primaries!


Agreed. Vox put a little to much doom-gloom into his coffee today. Lamenting political shenanigans at an assembly of career politiicians is a little like lamenting all the hissing coming from the snake pit.

Anonymous patrick kelly August 29, 2012 2:55 PM  

"A person who says they believe in Jesus of Nazareth, but at same time says he is the Son of God, but, not God himself; is NOT a Christian..."

Sorry, but Me, Vox, the Pope, and the EOC Ecumenical Patriarch do not profess the belief that Jesus of Nazareth is God the Father. If you mean't something other than that, nevermind.

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 29, 2012 2:58 PM  

TLM:
Has the American Church moved to a place where Mormons are now accepted as fellow Christians?

They might as well, as most already gladly accept Satan-worshipping Babylonians working 24 x 7 x 365 for their genocide as "fellow Christians".

Anonymous Kipp Sweatervest August 29, 2012 3:01 PM  

Speaking for Richie Blackmore, I propose the new national anthem for these United States of America...

Anonymous Trevor Lillyblossom August 29, 2012 3:11 PM  

[To Kipp Sweatervest, speaking for Richard Blackmore]

Can we wear scarlet red cloaks, with hoods, and chant between verses, holding a big fat candle, "I Am Lucifer?"

Anonymous a good ROI August 29, 2012 3:51 PM  

This news guy (Ben Swann) is a good one, he had a piece on the CO movie theater shooting that asked some great questions, the ones that were not being asked in the rest of the mainstream media.

Here is a piece on the RNC and what is going to happen (did happen), as this was recorded several days ago.

Reality Check: RNC Pulling Out All Stops To Keep Ron Paul's Name Out Of Nomination
http://youtu.be/cQvszfnOSY8

Anonymous George August 29, 2012 3:57 PM  

"I think the time has come to breakup the GOP and leave. There is no point remaining. The party in its present form will be dead in a few election cycles anyway due to demographics. And given that republicans won't address this, as exemplified by their lack of action when they held power, it makes no sense to attach oneself to a dead horse."

The stupidity of the GOP has always astounded me. All they need to do is continue a strident stance on most economic issues and moderate their social views and they win the middle from Democrats.

Instead, they cower from the Tea Party by adopting stances on social issues that put them far outside the mainstream.

Being a supporter of Obama and the Democrats, I kinda like it, but still shake my head at their stupidity.

Anonymous JP (real one) August 29, 2012 4:07 PM  

Uh, George, do you know how the Tea Party got started? Do you know what the original TP in Boston was about?

It's primarily about economic issues, not social ones. Unfortunately, the Palinites have turned some of it into "Let's Support the Troops by Sending Them to War..Huuuahh!" garbage. But it's by and large still about economic issues.

But such ignorance from an Obamabot isn't surprising. Just enjoy Sugar Daddy's gravy train while you can. The largesse, whether from "public service" unions or welfare will come to an end.

Anonymous Passinthrough August 29, 2012 4:50 PM  

OT: Vox you hosted the Calvinism debate. Are you up to host the Mormanism debate? It should prove ever bit as interesting as the Calvinism debate.

Anonymous Passinthrough August 29, 2012 4:54 PM  

I think the time has come to create the Independent Party. US Constitution is the platform. Register as an independent and make them come to you for your vote.

Anonymous Mrs. Pilgrim August 29, 2012 5:10 PM  

I think the time has come to create the Independent Party. US Constitution is the platform. Register as an independent and make them come to you for your vote.

They've already made it abundantly plain that they don't want or need our votes anymore.

Anonymous Josh August 29, 2012 5:56 PM  

OT: Vox you hosted the Calvinism debate. Are you up to host the Mormanism debate? It should prove ever bit as interesting as the Calvinism debate

This is a terrible idea.

No, a thousand times no!

Anonymous Azimus August 29, 2012 6:27 PM  

Passinthrough August 29, 2012 4:54 PM
I think the time has come to create the Independent Party. US Constitution is the platform.


Independent party? Isn't that term an oxymoron?

This is a category error. Political parties are formed to push platforms, then codify and enact those platforms if elected: lower taxes, deregulation, national health care, ending wars, etc. You can't have a political party whose platform says "we've got to follow the law." In itself that is not a platform. Would you pass laws that ensure people follow the laws? How existential.

Anonymous George August 29, 2012 8:13 PM  

JP Said:

"Uh, George, do you know how the Tea Party got started? Do you know what the original TP in Boston was about?"

What's really interesting about the Tea Party is that it would be about where the "Occupy" movement is now were it not for a small set of donors and organizations running the show.

Those supporting the Tea Party may have noble intentions but they also are Tin Foil Hat wearing kooks.

Anonymous Vidad August 29, 2012 8:22 PM  

"People said Jimmy Carter was a good man too"

Can we get him back? I'd really like interest rates to go up sometime soon...

Anonymous Vidad August 29, 2012 8:25 PM  

@Passinthrough

We already have the "Constitution Party." www.constitutionparty.com

The problem is... most Xians are political idiots. And on top of that, things are so corrupt now there's no chance in hell any third party will get close to the top unless it's bankster aligned.

Anonymous Roundtine August 29, 2012 8:52 PM  

I emailed this info to GOP conservatives who had no love for Ron Paul, but also distrusted Romney's conservative credentials. The word they are getting from party people is that it was about proportional representation, if you win 10% of the vote, you get 10% of the delegates. To me, it sounds they're using Ron Paul as an excuse, because even Malkin is against the changes and I don't think she liked Ron Paul.

Blogger James Dixon August 29, 2012 9:07 PM  

> And on top of that, things are so corrupt now there's no chance in hell any third party will get close to the top unless it's bankster aligned.


Well, politicians always betray someone. All the Constitutional candidate has to do is say the right things to the bankers, and then backstab them when he's in office.

Anonymous JP (real one) August 30, 2012 12:30 AM  

> What's really interesting about the Tea Party is that it would be about where the "Occupy" movement is now were it not for a small set of donors and organizations running the show.

Those supporting the Tea Party may have noble intentions but they also are Tin Foil Hat wearing kooks. <

No, the difference between the Tea Party and Occupy is the former actually have skin in the game--they work or worked their entire lives and hate to see the country destroyed by runaway spending and fiscal idiocy.

The latter are a bunch of slackers who have never worked--along with recent liberal arts majors who think they deserve high-paying jobs. They were actually funded better than the Tea Party, thanks to the likes of convicted felon Soros.

Tin foil hat kooks...you mean like Jeremiah Wright, Ayers, Van Jones, etc.?

Blogger Good Will August 30, 2012 2:09 AM  

glacierman August 29, 2012 1:25 PM
GW, so by saying that Romney is a "good man" do you equate his Mormon beliefs to his standing by and not so much as making a mouse-squeak in standing up for the rules of the game? By Romney not calling bull on the game-changing that went on regarding Ron Paul, he is in fact endorsing this position. What brilliant morals in this RINO!!!


The RNC's internal rules/rule making are of no consequence to us/U.S. The entire convention is just a show. How they put on their "coronation pageant" is their own affair. The "winner" has already been pre-ordained. Ron Paul's delegate count is insignificant. And he's refusing either to show up or "fully endorse" Mitt Romney. So why should they cater to the loser? (And I'm a RP supporter, BTW.)

What kind of character does this man have? The chink in the armour has been revealed and that will be exploited and used against him for the next four years should he become President.

Romney, despite his flaws (and he can be a real a-hole 10% of the time), has a sterling character. He is a virtuous man, a team-builder, a financial wizard, and professional businessman. He also happens to be a Latter-day Saint, whose religious experience has informed his world view, for the better, I might add. He won't be the "perfect candidate" you're looking for (neither would RP), but he'll be a hell of lot better than what you have now (though, as VD has explained, not a hell of lot better in any ways that truly matter).

I think, however, we will be pleasantly surprised.


Achilles Heal

(And your assertion that your name will be stricken from the LDS Member's list if false. Take a look at the worldwide members list and match it to the dollars that are (forcibly) received in the tithing system. The numbers don't add up. You can run, but you can never hide)


The U.S. LDS base no doubt carries, financially, the bulk of the LDS world's ministry, chapel and temple building, etc....as it should be. We are materially richer and more comfortable than the majority of the earth. A Marxist principle does, indeed, apply in the Church: from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. Each member, rich and poor, is asked to pay 10% of their income in tithing. The Church strives to care for those in need.

But no one if FORCED to pay ANYTHING. (Even sermons on paying tithing are relatively rare.) We do not "pass the plate" in meetings and members, generally, must seek out the bishop to hand them their tithing. There is no arm-twisting. (Having served as a financial clerk for several years, I can attest that only about 20% of our congregation was "active" and only about half of those paid tithing. So only about 10% of the Church -- in my area at least -- actually pay 10%.) Because we have a "lay" ministry -- and all our buildings are paid for before they are built -- our congregation's entire annual budget is less than $8,000. That includes utilities, copy machine, everything. The rest goes to build chapels and temples elsewhere, support missionary work, welfare farms, etc.

The only "pressure" to give money, I can think of, is when 12-year-old boys (who hold the Aaronic priesthood) go door-to-door to members' homes to collect "fast offerings" (donations of money for the feeding and care of the poor). 100% of this money goes to charity.


Your cult is based on lies from the deceiving angel-of-light, Moroni. May your eyes and ears be opened to that truth!!

You wouldn't know an angel of light if you saw one. Please describe for us even one post-apostolic angelic ministration within the last 2000 years for which you are willing to vouch as authentically heaven-sent. What extra-biblical message did he/she bring? Why haven't you included this message in your Bible?

Blogger Good Will August 30, 2012 2:13 AM  

Josh August 29, 2012 11:57 AM
You're crazy.

Says the man with the magic underwear...


What is it with you and your preoccupation with other people's underwear? Do you have a fetish or something?

Blogger Good Will August 30, 2012 2:33 AM  

Josh August 29, 2012 12:39 PM
We'd be happy if he just helped steer the country toward more Constitutionally-founded policies and practices.

Prepare to be disappointed, because Romney has no intention of following the constitution.


The U.S. "died" a long time ago. Requiring strict reliance upon the Constitution now would be like yanking the body politic off life-support and requiring it to function on its own organs. The whole system would shut down. It would be bloody.

Our system of government has degenerated from following "Queensbury Rules" to "street fighting". You want Romney to abide by the Constitution (Queensbury Rules)? (I do.) Frankly, you'd have to drop a bomb on Washington, D.C., and kill practically every congressman and senator currently serving before you would ever see "Constitutional government" re-installed over the U.S.

It's not Romney's fault that our laws and government have degenerated. Romney realizes this. But he also a pragmatist.

Watch what he does. I agree with VD: it is highly unlikely that Romney will differentiate himself from Obama in any material respect that will fundamentally alter the course of the country in terms of demographics, debt, guns or God.

Well, actually, I think Romney will welcome God back into the U.S. -- after Obama (and his kind) have so thoroughly "deported" Him from the public square.

Blogger Good Will August 30, 2012 2:56 AM  

TLM August 29, 2012 2:22 PM
GW
I went to your links but nothing was there? Except for some on-line ads for Mormon.org that prominently featured a black man.


I clicked on the links I posted (above) and all three went right to where I intended (and NONE went to any "Mormon" site). I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt, but since your comments are so cynical, slanderous and malignant, I'll just assert that you're full of crap.

You guys are shameless with regards to covering up your past and rebooting your message to gain mammon & power.

Around the mid-90s, LDS began to deny it ever taught that blacks were the cursed and inferior children of Cain, fit only, at best, to be servants of white Mormons in heaven. I know you deny that now, but it is what your cult taught from its inception.


I don't deny that early leaders of the LDS Church taught these things. Most Mormons believed them -- as did many Southern Baptists, Methodists and other "Christians" who owned slaves. (Mormons, by an large, didn't own slaves and opposed slavery.) Mormon scripture reveals that the seed of Cain was preserved through the Flood, through Ham, who married Egyptus, and whose offspring were cursed as to the priesthood. However, Joseph Smith did not teach that the black man could not hold the priesthood. In fact, Joseph Smith ordained blacks to the priesthood.

The practice of denying blacks the priesthood was undertaken by Brigham Young, according to his understanding of the Lord's will at that time. (A black Mormon missionary, preaching in the South, no doubt would have been lynched. Imagine a black Mormon missionary preaching it was "God's will" that he should have some of those white Southern daughters for his multiple wives? I don't see that going over any better than polygamy did, in general.)

Brigham Young (and others who followed) interpreted the Bible and other LDS scriptures to sustain denying the priesthood to blacks. But modern leaders (and members) of the Church -- including myself -- yearned for the day when the black man would receive the same blessings as all other men and women in the Church. I, for one, rejoiced when the prophet announced in 1978 the revelation making this great change.


I bet many older Mormons still hold to the old-school LDS teaching and would be appalled if some home boy walked into temple asking "Where the white women at?".

I think any Mormon would be appalled if anyone acted in so crude and racist a fashion. Is that how men act in your church?

Anonymous TLM August 30, 2012 6:35 AM  

Its a line from a famously funny Mel Brooks movie called Blazing Saddles, a movie that couldnt be made today with our PC madness. Google where the white women at and you'll see.

So was the LDS stance on blacks changed via direct revelation by elohim to this prophet, or due to the changing dynamics of blacks in American society (as the civil rights movement had succeeded in labeling all ill will of blacks as racist-with real civil and criminal consequences for those that didn't play ball). Me thinks the latter was the catalyst for change. This is why lds is nothing but a cult. Its doctrine is fluid and must change according to current events and trends. The same applied to blood atonement and polygamy. In many ways you're not even a true mormon. The fundamental lds types who refuse to give up the original doctrines of lds are the true believers. At least they don't sell out their heritage for social approval by non-mormons. But what has always sickened me about mormonism, and why I despise it, is its using of Jesus Christ as a marketing tool for Joseph Smith.

Blogger Good Will August 30, 2012 12:00 PM  

TLM August 30, 2012 6:35 AM
Its a line from a famously funny Mel Brooks movie called Blazing Saddles, a movie that couldnt be made today with our PC madness. Google where the white women at and you'll see.

So was the LDS stance on blacks changed via direct revelation by elohim to this prophet, or due to the changing dynamics of blacks in American society (as the civil rights movement had succeeded in labeling all ill will of blacks as racist-with real civil and criminal consequences for those that didn't play ball). Me thinks the latter was the catalyst for change. This is why lds is nothing but a cult. Its doctrine is fluid and must change according to current events and trends. The same applied to blood atonement and polygamy. In many ways you're not even a true mormon. The fundamental lds types who refuse to give up the original doctrines of lds are the true believers. At least they don't sell out their heritage for social approval by non-mormons. But what has always sickened me about mormonism, and why I despise it, is its using of Jesus Christ as a marketing tool for Joseph Smith.


I respect your animosity toward the LDS Church and the tenets of that faith. (I was once a non-Mormon and remember the antipathy with which I once regarded LDS teachings.) However, you have tragically misunderstood both LDS (and Judeo-Christian) history and doctrine.

The LDS Church has never said that the practice of denying the priesthood to blacks, polygamy, or "blood atonement" was wrong. The Church emphatically states, however, that such practices today would be wrong. It's not the doctrine that has changed, but the application of that doctrine.

The gospel taught by Jesus and His apostles was originally intended primarily (and exclusively) for the Jews, not the gentiles. (Peter went so far as to require non-Jews wishing to become Christians to "convert" to Judaism, as it were, by first being circumcised -- until he was reproved and corrected by Paul.) The practice of circumcision was done away by the New Covenant. The "old" doctrine and practice was not repudiated or denounced. Circumcision was the right practice (and doctrine) for the right time.

There was a time when denying the priesthood to blacks (for whatever reason) was the "right" thing to do. Same with the practice of polygamy. And blood atonement.

The reason we have living prophets today is the same reason for which we had them since Jesus rose to heaven: to bear witness of Christ's resurrection, to guide the Church, receive revelation, exercise the ordinances and keys of salvation, etc.

Saying I'm not a "true mormon" because I don't practice polygamy is like saying Cornelius was not a "true christian" because he didn't get circumcised.

The curse of Cain (regarding the priesthood) has been removed (as it was prophesied it one day would be). The keys and ordinance of plural marriage have been restored and have been exercised -- and will be exercised again in a coming day, when a little child can count the number of righteous men remaining upon the earth. And "blood atonement" shall again be instituted -- at Christ's coming, after the wicked have utterly rejected the forgiveness, cleansing power and justification available through Christ's blood, according to His Law of Mercy. Then they will receive their punishment, by the Law of Justice, and spill their own blood, in partial payment for their sins.

But even then, it will not be enough. They must still receive the saving grace and atonement available only through Christ -- after all they can do.

Fortunately, we can repent now and receive His grace before it is too late.

Anonymous No_Limit_Bubba™ August 30, 2012 12:08 PM  

Re: "Where the white women at?"


Excuuuuse me while I whip this out.

Anonymous TLM August 30, 2012 3:24 PM  

The LDS Church has never said that the practice of denying the priesthood to blacks, polygamy, or "blood atonement" was wrong. The Church emphatically states, however, that such practices today would be wrong. It's not the doctrine that has changed, but the application of that doctrine.

The gospel taught by Jesus and His apostles was originally intended primarily (and exclusively) for the Jews, not the gentiles. (Peter went so far as to require non-Jews wishing to become Christians to "convert" to Judaism, as it were, by first being circumcised -- until he was reproved and corrected by Paul.) The practice of circumcision was done away by the New Covenant. The "old" doctrine and practice was not repudiated or denounced. Circumcision was the right practice (and doctrine) for the right time......

You're thoughts and views above are so twisted on Biblical Christianity that I have nothing left to say. And your ability to gloss over any and all inconsistencies with LDS doctrine and historical events (I believe last time you claimed the mountain meadow massacre was in self-defense)regarding anything remotely critical of Mormonism is proof that you're a prototypical cult member. It is apparent that nothing short of a direct revelation by God (Christian, not Mormon) is the only hope you have from being cleared of your depraved mind (As outlined in Romans 1)and having the true Christ revealed to you. May you have the blessing and luxury of that grace and freedom. You're a prisoner with invisible chains, but a prisoner nonetheless.

Blogger Good Will August 30, 2012 5:54 PM  

TLM August 30, 2012 3:24 PM

You're thoughts and views above are so twisted on Biblical Christianity that I have nothing left to say. And your ability to gloss over any and all inconsistencies with LDS doctrine and historical events (I believe last time you claimed the mountain meadow massacre was in self-defense)regarding anything remotely critical of Mormonism is proof that you're a prototypical cult member. It is apparent that nothing short of a direct revelation by God (Christian, not Mormon) is the only hope you have from being cleared of your depraved mind (As outlined in Romans 1)and having the true Christ revealed to you. May you have the blessing and luxury of that grace and freedom. You're a prisoner with invisible chains, but a prisoner nonetheless.


I haven't "glossed" over anything! You have ignored my arguments, rather than refute them. Does calling me names substitute for making a rational argument in your mind? What has MMM to do with anything written here? (And I never claimed that the criminals who murdered those folks from Arkansas acted in "self-defense".) If you spent as much energy considering the facts and arguments I bring to bear rather than attacking the "cultist" straw men you have created, we might actually get somewhere.

In case you are interested in replying, how were my "thoughts and views" regarding priesthood, polygamy or blood atonement "twisted" or in conflict with "Biblical Christianity"?

Blogger Good Will August 31, 2012 9:50 PM  

TLM:

A day later and...nothing. I thought so. Oh well. It was OT anyway.

At least you're not talking about the Totalitarian's "magic underoos".

Anonymous stg58 September 01, 2012 10:26 PM  

I was a national delegate this week, from Texas, and I was one of the ringleaders getting the signatures on the forms and getting them turned in to the secretary of the RNC. We worked out asses off to get this done, and I am proud to have worked with that bunch of patriots and warriors who got it done.

We followed the rules, did everything we were supposed to, and turned in signatures of the majority of delegates from 6 states. Alas, a crushing toilet paper outage occurred 5 minutes after we turned in the paperwork. The only clue the world will see that we did this was when Wayne Terhune, the Nevada delegation chair and a fellow leader in this little operation, declared to the world in his roll call of the States speech that Ron Paul had obtained the majority of the delegates in 6 states to be placed into nomination.

We locked horns with pure evil this week. Mitt Romney is not a good man. He and his campaign apparatus broke every rule, changed them at will, lied, cheated and stole to get this nomination. Good Will, is lying cheating and stealing against Mormon values? The results were scripted. Watch the video of the teleprompter. It had the results of the rules votes for Cry Baby to read about half a second before they came in.

The credentials run down: Morton Blackwell, a Rules Committee member from Virginia and very well respected in the party, was on the bus with the VA and RI delegation to come in to the convention center and testify/fight/win on the question of seating the Maine delegation. The bus tooled around Tampa for three hours until the Rules Committee meeting was over. Only after the meeting was over was the bus allowed to let out its passengers at the Convention Center. Maine was not seated. At the convention itself, the motion was presented and deemed to have passed automatically.

Rules: The rules that are now in place would have completely shut out Ronald Reagan at the 1976 and 1980 conventions. Here is how they work:

All delegates are now hard bound to a candidate. No more independent delegates. They must now be approved by the candidate before they are allowed to be certified at the convention. The candidate may decertify and eliminate any delegate he wants, even if that delegate is elected by the state delegates in his congressional district. This means that delegate spots will now be handed out to political donors, lobbyists, fat cats and anyone else besides the duly and properly elected delegates out of the congressional district. Imagine Romney stacking the Texas delegation with the pastor of every Mormon church in Texas, or the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. This also plays into platforms. A stacked Mormon delegation might decide polygamy is something the National platform should advocate, a bunch of lobbyists, Catholics, Baptists, whatever. Imagine the insanity.

Next part of that rule: If you are a delegate, and you merely sign a form to place someone else into nomination, you will be deemed to have resigned as a delegate, and you will be frogmarched out the door. That doesn't mean you voted for that candidate you aren't bound to, you merely agreed to lend your signature to place him into nomination. You just signed your own delegate death warrant. If you participated in a "Favorite Son" maneuver, such as signing a form to place Ronald Reagan into Nomination, you are gone.

Last rule: The rules can now be changed by the RNC at any time between conventions. It doesn't matter what the delegates vote on now at the convention. The RNC can change any rule for any reason. Why bother showing up at the convention to vote on rules, if the rules can be changed as soon as you get on a plane to fly home? It totally invalidates the reason for having a convention.

Good Will--your fellow Mormon is a demon. I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire, and I wouldn't walk across the street to watch him slit his wrists.

Blogger Galt-in-Da-Box September 02, 2012 10:33 PM  

Amazing how the majority Papist view here is going all Romney on the minority Mormon delegation...Or not.
Maybe the Mormons needs ta stawart keepin' they wimmin folk a home, barefoot n pragnint for they gitz any respect /s
The Bible proves all man-made religions are nothing more than aprons of fig leaves to cover the naked depravity of their members - fanatics and hypocrites alike: it's private interpretation at best and political bullshit at least.

As to the GOP, I quit voting for the bastards in 2000 when they tried to shove the last spineless, stupid RINO down our throats as a conservative. Didn't vote at all in 2008, and may not again, since the choices are worse.

Any nation built on robbery and bribery (essence of imperialism) will not survive.

Anonymous Daniel Lee Ramsay September 03, 2012 1:51 PM  

This is the best post you have made.. I am a ron paul republican.. and I was destroyed by the two party system this past week or two.. Everyone should watch ben swann to keep up with the news.. his newwest reality check covered the fraud on all its levels perfectly.. I am not the biggest fan of you Vox, but only because you think you can never be wrong.. thanks for posting this to get it out on your circuit of viewers though.. It made the front page of the daily paul.. So I thought I would come say hi.. Since you and RSB havent been bickering back and forth I havent heard from you in a while.. Anyway, A question for you sir.. Is the 2 party system defeatable or Have we lost the freedom we brag about so much? Is a violent revolution coming to america because its our only choice? Should we do what Ecuadors president did to shut down the propaganda news machine (Like JFK mentioned in his famous speech)? can we?

Anonymous Daniel Lee Ramsay September 03, 2012 2:09 PM  

People who are turning this into a mormon argument dont know anything about mormons.. I live in Utah.. and the mormons may be misdirected in some areas, but they are the most generous, charitable religion that exits today.. Romney shouldnt not be elected because hes Mormon.. He shouldnt be elected because hes a bad person with typical big government ideals. Mormonism is going to be one of the biggest religions of the future, get used to them.. They are misguided just like every religion that follows the bible (they do follow the bible btw).

Blogger Good Will September 03, 2012 6:15 PM  

Is Romney a "bad" man?

Romney is a politician. He wanted to get elected. The "two-party system" is a scam. (We all know that.) Romney had to be a Republican to get elected. The Republican party isn't the Mormon Church. Its by-laws are not scripture or commandments chiseled in stone. Romney (or whoever leads the RNC) can change the rules to benefit themselves if they have the power and votes to do so. And Romney had the power.

Ron Paul lost (unfortunately). To the victor goes the spoils. That's how elections have been won in this country practically from its inception.

Romney is, unfortunately, a "big government" guy. (This is Rome, after all. What were you expecting? Something less than a "Caesar"?)

I think you will find that Romney will be one of the best (big-government) presidents we've ever had. Our salvation does not depend upon whether the U.S. survives. (It won't.) And Romney will do a lot of good in office.

We'll all just have to wait until the Messiah returns before we get the kind of "small government" we crave.

Blogger Good Will September 05, 2012 6:04 PM  

John Stossel's assessment of Romney was right on target.

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2012/09/05/what_i_ask_of_romney_and_obama

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