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Wednesday, August 08, 2012

Spanking is child abuse

But apparently chemical lobotomies are nothing more than good parenting:
The researchers found that doctor visits between 1993-1998 and 2005-2009 that involved a prescription of antipsychotic medication for children jumped sevenfold -- from 0.24 to 1.83 per 100 people. For teens, 14 to 20 years old, the rate rose from 0.78 to 3.76 per 100 people, and for adults, it just about doubled, from 3.25 to 6.18 per 100 people....

Dr. Peter Breggin, a psychiatrist from Ithaca, N.Y., and an outspoken critic of widespread antipsychotic use in children, said these drugs damage developing brains

"We have a national catastrophe," said Breggin. "This is a situation where we have ruined the brains of millions of children." In controlling behavior, antipsychotics act on the frontal lobes of the brain -- the same area of the brain targeted by a lobotomy, Breggin said. "These are lobotomizing drugs," he added. "Of course, they will reduce all behavior, including irritability," he said....

Between 2005 and 2009, controlling "disruptive behavior" accounted for 63 percent of the reason antipsychotics were given to children and almost 34 percent for adolescents, the researchers found.
To say nothing of what they do to long-term cognitive capacity. Between widespread chemical lobotomies and ubiquitous vaccines, I'm amazed that anyone still believes that medical "science" is genuinely focused on attempting to help children grow up to live healthy and productive lives.

It would be informative to know how these children on antipsychotics do on IQ tests before and after their brains are bathed in chemicals for years.

Labels: ,

65 Comments:

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, Neuropsychology August 08, 2012 5:37 AM  

I think the problem is, perhaps we are thinking of the children too much. We know what is best. They need these pills. How else are they to focus properly and sit calmly in the K-12 public schools?

//puffs pipe

Blogger Markku August 08, 2012 5:43 AM  

OT:

Via Drudge

It's no secret that falling behind on student loan payments can squash a borrower's hopes of building savings, buying a home or even finding work. Now, thousands of retirees are learning that defaulting on student-debt can threaten something that used to be untouchable: their Social Security benefits.

(...)

The threat of Social Security cuts adds to the overall financial woes faced by the aging baby boomer generation. Almost 45% of people aged 48 to 64 won't save enough money to cover basic needs and uninsured health care costs in retirement, according to the Employee Benefit Research Institute.


Logan's gonna Logan.

Anonymous The Great Martini August 08, 2012 6:06 AM  

I agree with Breggin here and on a lot of points, particularly use of anti-psychotics on the very young and old. I have a feeling they are used a lot in nursing homes to control unruly residents. Unfortunately the message is smeared a bit by Breggin's name, who happens to be something of a crank, with ties to Scientology -- and we all know what they think of pro psychiatry (think Tom Cruise). On the other hand, anti-psychotics, for all their dangers, have given a lot of people their lives back, or some semblance of them. Anyone with a person seriously afflicted with schizophrenia in their close family knows what I'm talking about.

Anonymous Luke August 08, 2012 6:06 AM  

This is just one of the many, many reasons my wife and I are going to homeschool our daughters.

Anonymous Suomynona August 08, 2012 6:19 AM  

I hate these drug pushers, legitimized by the medical institution to pose as doctors. People naturally assume that the doctor, with all his high falutin', super special training and credentials knows better than they do, so they put their children's lives in his hands. Big, big mistake.

But the parents aren't completely innocent. They want a quick fix for their child's emotional and behavioral problems that took years of bad influences to create. They stuck that baby in daycare, then the godless public school system, and provided a godless home life with the only direction and guidance coming from a godless culture - and they created their little monster. Now they don't want to deal with it.

It's no surprise the solution to their problems is more secular BS that will cause more harm than good. A broken society becomes of vicious cycle of problems and futile stabs at nonsolutions that cause more problems.

Blogger Carnivore August 08, 2012 6:25 AM  

The Magic Pill - to solve any problem - so easy and simple - just swallow.

Anonymous TheExpat August 08, 2012 6:29 AM  

Okay, next question: What percent of those chemical lobotomies are prescribed for boys?

Anonymous Anonymous August 08, 2012 6:30 AM  

>I'm amazed that anyone still believes that medical "science" is genuinely
>focused on attempting to help children grow up to live healthy and productive
>lives

it's not science's fault, but Big Pharma's

Anonymous Roundtine August 08, 2012 6:39 AM  

Let's see a chart of crime rates against the use of these drugs. If it suppresses all behavior, it will also suppress criminal behavior.

That could be the missing link that turns progressives into the most racist of the racists.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza August 08, 2012 7:25 AM  

Whether speed or a downer their long-term brain function will be completely undermined if not stumped. TPTB don't want a clear thinking, logical and intelligent mass.

Blogger IM2L844 August 08, 2012 7:59 AM  

If it suppresses all behavior, it will also suppress criminal behavior.

Although it clearly exists, the connection between antipsychotics and mass murder is seldom discussed in the MSM except to insinuate noncompliance as the culprit.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Wade Michael Page was taking antipsychotics at the time of the shootings or sometime prior.

Anonymous dh August 08, 2012 8:18 AM  

VD, does an IQ test remain fixed regardless of age? Is it age adjusted or should it increase as you develop?

Anonymous JartStar August 08, 2012 8:26 AM  

Anyone with a person seriously afflicted with schizophrenia in their close family knows what I'm talking about.

There are side effects, but it's certainly better than living with untreated bipolar. We have a close family member who the drugs have helped.

Public schools push these drugs hard so the kids just sit there in the classroom.

Blogger James Dixon August 08, 2012 9:04 AM  

> VD, does an IQ test remain fixed regardless of age?

No. IQ increases as you grow and then declines as you age. From memory, most people hit their peak sometime in their 20's.

Blogger Jason Trommetter August 08, 2012 9:17 AM  

Can you define exactly what "antipsychotic" drugs are? We worked for almost 6 months with my son's first grade teacher to "modify" his behavior in class. We finally took him to a Christian psychiatrist who diagnosed him with ADHD. Now he takes Vyvanse before he goes to school each morning. His behavior has improved and he doesn't act like he's lobotomized. He's one of the smartest in his class, winning awards each semester. His best subjects are math and engineering. (Yes, I said engineering. He goes to AJ Whittenberg Elementary School of Engineering.) He still struggles with reading because he has a convergence insufficiency in his eyes.

Anonymous DrTorch August 08, 2012 9:27 AM  

I'm amazed that anyone still believes that medical "science" is genuinely focused on attempting to help children grow up to live healthy and productive lives.

If you define healthy and productive to mean "serfs" then I don't see any disconnect.

Blogger SarahsDaughter August 08, 2012 9:50 AM  

You are already medicating your child, Jason, and don't know the answer to your question?

Anonymous Anonymous August 08, 2012 9:53 AM  

This is scary true. I've seen it first hand with the friends of my children. Almost every single kid is on some type of medication be it for anxiety, ADD, ADHD, depression, etc. These kids do NOT know how to think or to care. They are pretty much walking zombies. What's criminal is that these drugs have altered their brains forever. They literally calcify the brain. This is intentional and no one can convince me otherwise.

Anonymous rycamor August 08, 2012 9:58 AM  

What I'm wondering is how much of the behavior the drugs are intended to correct is associated with our modern diet, full of grains (much of it genetically modified), industrially processed food, and of course sugars, corn syrup and hydrogenated vegetable oils.

I used to laugh at this sort of food conspiracy stuff, but it seems to me like the more we get away from the straightforward, natural whole foods of our ancestors, the more messed up we get. People think they are getting healthy by buying "low fat" products, but this just compounds the error rather than fixing it.

Also, I think it is fairly well established that kids are getting less and less exercise each decade. Schools have closed down recess times, prohibited boyish horseplay, scaled way back on Phys Ed classes. Combine that with hours of Nintendo, phone texting, HDTV, and you have the average kid not even getting 15 minutes a day of real exercise.

And here's a real irony, if I understand recent research properly: it has been shown that good eating and exercise can actually affect your genetics. So we have at least a couple generations of Americans eating progressively weirder food (scientifically speaking) and getting less and less exercise, and who are thus passing on inferior genes to their children. Any geneticists in the crowd care to confirm, deny, or elaborate on this?

Anonymous Anonymous August 08, 2012 10:00 AM  

“Science does not work by consensus. It works by the rigorous testing of hypotheses and theories.”

How can you tell the difference between a so-called intelligent man, and a child with a burned brain? Seriously?

The inhabitants of the West have abandoned the act of reasoning, and the work of understanding, for a ‘science thinks for me’... thing. I do not know what to call it: but is it truly insane, deeply stupid, and vile.

-CB

Anonymous Anonymous August 08, 2012 10:11 AM  

And Jason, this nonsense about "modifying" behavior is ridiculous. They want to take your child and make him into someone he is not. Kids do not behave all the time. Some are quiet, some are noisy, some can't sit still. That's normal human behavior and is NOT a reason to put your kid on drugs. My daughter is naturally very bright and talkative. She spent her entire school career being told to shut up and not be who she is. They don't tell shy kids to talk more BECAUSE THAT'S THE POINT, THEY WANT YOUR KID TO SHUT UP AND LISTEN AND FOLLOW ORDERS AND NOT BE AN INDIVIDUAL!!! Luckily, I told her to ignore the teachers when they attempted to kill her true spirit....she continued to be a pain in their asses while getting straight A's (which they hated to give her--they would always ask her why she was so concerned with her grades--as wanting to succeed is some sort of disease.)

Schools want everyone to be the same, and I am sorry it took me so long to figure out how damaging this is. She's in college now where the true brainwashing happens but she is able to blow it off because SHE CAN THINK FOR HERSELF AND KNOWS WHEN SHE IS BEING LIED TO because her brain has not been destroyed.

My children give me hope for the future.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 08, 2012 10:12 AM  


VD, does an IQ test remain fixed regardless of age? Is it age adjusted or should it increase as you develop?


IQ tests are age normed. As a consequence of the high heritability in developed countries (where nutrition is pretty good for the majority of children *), and because they are age normed, they remain pretty stable across a person's life.

* It is humorous that claims of high levels environmental determination of IQ really only applies to developing countries.

Anonymous JartStar August 08, 2012 10:21 AM  

There’s no cure for bad parenting. If these drugs weren’t available parents to use when unnecessary they wouldn’t suddenly become good parents but would likely either become negligent or abusive. Not everyone is cut out for parenting, but nearly everyone can have kids.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 08, 2012 10:39 AM  


IQ tests are age normed. As a consequence of the high heritability in developed countries (where nutrition is pretty good for the majority of children *), and because they are age normed, they remain pretty stable across a person's life.


That sentence was poorly constructed. The fact that they remain stable across a person's life is not a consequence of the high heritability in developed countries, it is a consequence of the age norming.

Blogger Markku August 08, 2012 10:45 AM  

On the other hand, anti-psychotics, for all their dangers, have given a lot of people their lives back, or some semblance of them. Anyone with a person seriously afflicted with schizophrenia in their close family knows what I'm talking about.

I do have a paranoid schizophreniac somewhat close in the family. An intelligent one. They are the most difficult ones - they are very creative in resisting treatment. The medication makes him manageable (if he takes it, and that's a big if) but pretty much takes away his personality. To me it seems that the medicine doesn't really cure the underlying problem, it just disables enough mental functions that the problem has no more ways to manifest itself.

Blogger JDC August 08, 2012 10:53 AM  

Add to the mix, what I believe, is a loss of cognitive function with long-term anti psychotic use. It's much like the life-long alcoholic who never progresses socially past the teenage years. In my old world, I worked part-time at psychiatric hospitals. In group sessions it was interesting to see how people would relate. The 50 year old alcoholics could relate better to the 18 y/o heroin addict.

The life long bi-polar and/or schizophrenic (let's throw in schizoaffective as well) who benefits from medication will conclude - "as soon as I no longer have symptoms, I can stop taking my medication." Cognitively they cannot grasp that they must continue or they will regress back into their symptoms.

As for my kids - antipsychotics - never. Crying and doing awful chores seems to cure most behavioral problems.

Anonymous VD August 08, 2012 11:04 AM  

Choose a name, Anonymous, under Name/URL.

Anonymous JartStar August 08, 2012 11:07 AM  

The medication makes him manageable (if he takes it, and that's a big if) but pretty much takes away his personality.

Interesting. It's the same way with our relative. She's so much better than before, but she's also a different person. Before her house was spotless, now it is dirty and stashed full of old stuff. She's also kind of passive about everything, or at least shows very few emotions even if she internalizes them.

She's still a whole lot better than before, even if the medication only manages the symptoms and doesn't cure the problem. In the 1950s she probably would have been given a physical lobotomy assuming she didn't commit suicide first.

Anonymous The One August 08, 2012 11:21 AM  

From a spiritual prospective a suppression of the resident soul/spirit will leave the body more vulnerable to an outside takeover, hence the mass murders.

Anonymous The One August 08, 2012 11:27 AM  

Correction to my above post. A physical compound can not suppress a spirit do to put it more accurately these compound are actually blocking the spirit/soul from interacting with it's own body/avatar.

Anonymous Noah B. August 08, 2012 11:37 AM  

Does it really take a rocket scientist to figure out that bathing your body in a soup of manmade chemicals - whether you're talking about drugs, food additives, solvents, cosmetics, herbicides, pesticides -- probably is not a good thing?

While all of these things are modern miracles, it's probably best to use them sparingly and to try to weigh benefits against potential risks.

Anonymous Kickass August 08, 2012 11:39 AM  

Good point. The story in the Bible of Jesus casting out the legion from the poor suffering man seems like a cure and the reason the drugs rarely work well. Same symptoms that many suffer as well.

Anonymous Kickass August 08, 2012 11:40 AM  

We do anything we can rather to submit to the cleansing fire of a Holy God.

Anonymous Otherwise Silent Observer August 08, 2012 12:27 PM  

Slouching towards the Complacency, Apathy, and Dependence phases of the Tytler Cycle in History one pill at a time.

Anonymous BW1 August 08, 2012 12:31 PM  

SOMA!!!!!

Blogger Joshua_D August 08, 2012 12:39 PM  

rycamor August 08, 2012 9:58 AM
What I'm wondering is how much of the behavior the drugs are intended to correct is associated with our modern diet, full of grains (much of it genetically modified), industrially processed food, and of course sugars, corn syrup and hydrogenated vegetable oils.

I used to laugh at this sort of food conspiracy stuff, but it seems to me like the more we get away from the straightforward, natural whole foods of our ancestors, the more messed up we get. People think they are getting healthy by buying "low fat" products, but this just compounds the error rather than fixing it.


I think a lot of the "behavior" that folks want to medicate into "nonbehavior" has to do with diet. Look around, improper diet is manifesting itself in fat, sick America for everyone to see. Thus, the paleo movement is gaining steam. I'm enjoying some local grass fed beef, and french fries (fried in coconut oil, btw) as I type. And let me tell you, it's delicious. Anyway ...

I think you can make a case for lot of conspiracies, but I don't think you need conspiracies for things like this to happen - ADHD medication. All you really need is someone to decide to use the government to pass a law that creates an incentive. Once the incentives are in place, the market will take over.

Today in the USA, there are a lot of incentives for parents to medicate their children. Of course, I don't agree with the incentives or the decisions, but they exist. Parents have an incentive for both parents to work. Public School is basically a free baby sitting service, so parents have an incentive to make sure their children behave well in public school. Eating healthy food actually takes time and effort, which most working parents don't have, etc. etc. etc.

Anonymous Stickwick August 08, 2012 12:53 PM  

rycamor made some excellent points. Bipolar is a functional disorder, which means it's brought on and exacerbated by behavior. To a large extent, so is ADHD. It's no coincidence that the rate of drugging for childhood disorders has gone up with increasingly extreme unhealthy behavior. The importance of diet cannot be over-emphasized. My father worked with children who had severe behavioral problems, and he discovered that diet played a big role with many of these children. The most extreme case was a rather large young man at the age of 15 who would go into severe rages on an almost daily basis. So bad that the teachers would have to restrain him and sit on him until he calmed down. My dad finally realized that the kid was having a reaction to the super-sugary Tang he was given at lunch. As soon as the kid had all sugar cut out of his diet, he was completely manageable.

I know from my own personal experience, as someone who is prone to manic depression (the old term for bipolar), how lifestyle plays a role in this disorder. I had zero psychological problems all through childhood, but as soon as I was out of the strict environment with my parents and off to college, I started having major problems with manic depression. For the first time in my life, my lifestyle was completely unrestricted, and I went berserk. I ate nothing but junkfood, I drank, I watched TV until 2 am, skipped all of my classes, and stopped working out. Coincidentally, I started experiencing for the first time ever major psychological problems. I couldn't function, academically or socially, and eventually flunked out of college. It wasn't until I got back into a super-strict regiment of limiting my behavior that I went back to normalcy. To this day, I manage my manic depressive tendencies 100% through diet, exercise, and carefully limiting the amount of stimulation (music, TV, etc.) I get.

Jason, I strongly encourage you to research the Drake Institute in Irvine, CA. They have a very high success rate for dealing with genuine cases of childhood ADHD and autism without using drugs of any kind. Even though your son appears to be doing fine academically, he may not be maturing socially. I had a friend in college who had been on medication for ADHD since she was a young child, and though she was functional enough to do moderately well in college, she hated how passive the drugs made her feel. She tried going off the medication, and discovered that, in terms of her maturity level, she was exactly at the age when she started the medication.

Anonymous Stickwick August 08, 2012 1:14 PM  

Also, there is apparently no long-term benefit to children who take drugs for ADHD.

With the MTA having followed the children for eight years, the latest data have confirmed that there are zero long-term differences between children who were continuously medicated and those who were never medicated. Some of data were published online Thursday in the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry.

What they did find, however, is that there are long-term health risks associated with these drugs, chiefly stunted growth. Of course, the drug-pushers are trying to downplay these results.

Anonymous Servant August 08, 2012 1:33 PM  

It might be educational to look at how supposed ADHD children were handled when I was a child (40s-50s) before there was such a designation, let alone a plethora of children suffering from same diagnosis. While diet was much better, it was society regulated (I was regularly sent to the cloakroom - however that is where the Graham Crackers were stored for breaks). I don't recall anyone being lobotomized (literally) and somehow we all made it into adulthood.

Blogger HerewardMW August 08, 2012 2:06 PM  

Rycamor,

Although I find him irritating one aspect of Jamie Oliver's school meals campaign which was not highlighted enough was the behavioral changes.

A number of schools that went along with it reported improved behavior and in one primary school the teachers had noticed that they no longer had to hand continually out the children's inhalers in the afternoon.

Anonymous The Homeschool Homemaker August 08, 2012 2:06 PM  

Hi Vox, I assume that the amount of email you receive is huge and I have a deadline to meet so I took a chance posting here. I would like to read a bit of this post on my radio show tomorrow and also the one you did recently on vaccines. I would include full credit to you and give out a link to your blog. May I have permission to do so?

My radio show is The Homeschool Homemaker and I am at Blog Talk Radio (right now, it is a small and very new show :). I don't want to be presumptuous and post a link. Basically I do a quick show for Homeschooling Parents. You could email me at homeschoolhomemaker@yahoo.com or just answer this comment. I apologize for the OT, but I have a show tomorrow afternoon and have been a reader here for over 7 years and love your stuff.

Thanks so much.

Anonymous VD August 08, 2012 2:20 PM  

I would like to read a bit of this post on my radio show tomorrow and also the one you did recently on vaccines. I would include full credit to you and give out a link to your blog. May I have permission to do so?

Sure, do what you like. But please be clear that I am merely a superintelligence, I am not an expert on any of this stuff.

Anonymous Curlytop August 08, 2012 3:14 PM  

@ HerewardMW
"A number of schools that went along with it reported improved behavior and in one primary school the teachers had noticed that they no longer had to hand continually out the children's inhalers in the afternoon."

That's the dirty little secret regarding W's push for his craptastic "No Child Left Behind" legislation w good ole' Teddy back in 01.' The Texas school that he cited for improved grades involved a teacher who merely left little gummies on her desk and would step outside of the class for a moment knowing the children would eat them. It was a simple fruit/veggie dietary supplement. The improved scores had nothing to do with different testing but giving the low-income children some nutritional supplementation. Their focus and attention span improved, disruptive behavior decreased.

Excellent information, Stickwick!

Anonymous The Homeschool Homemaker August 08, 2012 4:04 PM  

"Sure, do what you like. But please be clear that I am merely a superintelligence, I am not an expert on any of this stuff."

But, of course :) Thanks!

Anonymous rycamor August 08, 2012 4:07 PM  

HerewardMW August 08, 2012 2:06 PM

Rycamor,

Although I find him irritating one aspect of Jamie Oliver's school meals campaign which was not highlighted enough was the behavioral changes.

A number of schools that went along with it reported improved behavior and in one primary school the teachers had noticed that they no longer had to hand continually out the children's inhalers in the afternoon.


Yeah, the wife and I watched one of the first of his shows on the schools. It really was amazing what the school systems were trying to pass off as food. If something had some red sauce in it--essentially ketchup, that qualified as a vegetable. If you gave the kids strawberry Quik, that qualified as dairy. Heartbreaking to see what so many kids grow up eating. What really kills me is the number of parents who just shrug their shoulders and say "Well, I can't get them to eat anything else." Duhh... of course not, if you GIVE THEM THE OPTION. Take the junk away, have nothing but real food in the house for a couple weeks, and they'll eat it. Surprisingly, you will find that there is a certain percentage of healthy food that your kid will actually like, given the chance to kick the bad habits.

Anonymous JartStar August 08, 2012 4:32 PM  

A year's worth of counseling and medication relieved some symptoms of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder among a group children, but only children receiving additional biofeedback therapy managed to hold on to these healthy gains after going off the medication, according to a new study.

Link

Brain Sync has a good one called Pure Focus for $10.

Anonymous Outlaw X August 08, 2012 4:40 PM  

My great grandfather emigrated here from Italy in 1907. He forbade my grandfather from speaking Italian. Never was told why.

Anonymous Faust August 08, 2012 4:44 PM  

I'm pretty sure I've heard of cases where child services would take a child away from their parents because the parents refused to give them anti-psychotic drugs. Did that actually happen or did I dream it?

Blogger Spacebunny August 08, 2012 4:49 PM  

My great grandfather emigrated here from Italy in 1907. He forbade my grandfather from speaking Italian. Never was told why.

This was normal behaviour for immigrants back in the day. My Norwegian grandparents could speak Norwegian (my great grandparents we immigrants), but none of their children ever spoke a word of it.

Anonymous Outlaw X August 08, 2012 4:54 PM  

I'm pretty sure I've heard of cases where child services would take a child away from their parents because the parents refused to give them anti-psychotic drugs. Did that actually happen or did I dream it?

I know of one. It was a black lady, but the got her child back, She had money and some smarts. They served warrant that was fake and signed by a no existing judge. That is the only one I know about.

Never speak to a CPS worker and damn sure don't ever, ever, ever let them in your house you might have a sock on the floor or something. It really is a large pedophile ring. They sell the kids. Search on " 2000 foster children missing in Florida." You should find it.

Anonymous Outlaw X August 08, 2012 5:07 PM  

Interesting, SB I always wondered why.

Blogger Spacebunny August 08, 2012 5:31 PM  

The why is because they wanted there children to assimilate. Back then it was shameful to have an accent, much less speak a foreign language as a mother tongue.

Anonymous Outlaw X August 08, 2012 5:50 PM  

Vox check out this link.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/study-shows-foster-children-high-rates-prescription-psychiatric/story?id=15058380#.UCLebaNdCq0

Anonymous Stickwick August 08, 2012 7:13 PM  

This was normal behaviour for immigrants back in the day. My Norwegian grandparents could speak Norwegian (my great grandparents we immigrants), but none of their children ever spoke a word of it.

All of my great-grandparents were immigrants, and my grandparents all spoke English. They also insisted they were American or Canadian, and didn't hyphenate. There sure as hell wasn't any longing for the old country. My husband has adopted this practice. He was born and raised in Finland, became an American citizen shortly after we got married, and now gets irritated when people call him Finnish-American. He insists he's just American.

Anonymous Stickwick August 08, 2012 7:15 PM  

That being said, I've asked my husband to teach our (future) children Finnish, because that's pretty much the only way they'll be able to communicate with half of their extended family.

Anonymous PGS August 08, 2012 8:32 PM  

Those of you with loved ones with bipolar, ADHD, autism, or schizophrenia, may want to take a look at the GAPS (Guts and Psychology Syndrome) diet: http://www.gapsdiet.com/

Many of these problems are at root a gut issue.
Hope that helps someone.

Anonymous Tumbleweed August 08, 2012 8:45 PM  

"My great grandfather emigrated here from Italy in 1907. He forbade my grandfather from speaking Italian. Never was told why."

Perhaps it was bitterness over having to leave his homeland. My American born father once told the story of how his foreign born grandmother forbade anyone to speak German in her presence insisting that had the country been any good they wouldn't have had to leave there. When Dad went to enlist during WWII his birth certificate had his first and middle names listed as Henry Charles instead of the German names his mother had given him and his grandmother was responsible. Don't remember how he got things straightened out but he served his country.

Anonymous oregon mouse August 08, 2012 11:13 PM  

Most of the public school routine is meant to condition children to boredom, monotony, and meaningless work. I read a great article a while ago comparing public school to factory farms,
Kids are confined in high population density, highly regimented environments where they are unable to indulge in instinctive, normal behaviors (curiosity, physical activity, talking and socializing with peers of their choice)
Kids are unnaturally seperated from their parents and family for most of their waking hours and sorted out according to age not developement.
Kids are fed unnatural foods that they are not adapted to digesting.
Because of the unnatural confinement, kids become aggressive and exhibit odd behaviors, psychological problems, etc..
There is nothing natural about a public school environment. It was modeled on the prussian, socialist system and meant from the beginning in the 19th century to stamp out good little worker bees for an authoritative government. Its no wonder the kids are breaking down the further this process is pushed. I will never put my kids through the public school hell I went through.

Kids are fed un

Blogger Spacebunny August 09, 2012 1:31 AM  

He was born and raised in Finland, became an American citizen shortly after we got married, and now gets irritated when people call him Finnish-American.

But did he renounce his Finnish citizenship? I ask because countries have varying rules on this - some do not allow dual citizenship and so if you became a citizen of another country you would automatically lose your previous citizenship. And I don't think Finland fits that category - so if he didn't renounce it, he is Finnish-American.

Blogger Markku August 09, 2012 2:07 AM  

Finland has only allowed dual citizenship as of 1 June 2003. If he has become US citizen before that, then he cannot have Finnish citizenship.

Blogger Spacebunny August 09, 2012 2:17 AM  

Yes he can, he can reclaim it, although it doesn't sound as if he would have done so. Also Stickwick isn't that old, it's entirely possible her husband didn't get his citizenship until after 2003 - which is why I asked.

Anonymous Stickwick August 09, 2012 9:00 AM  

... if he didn't renounce it, he is Finnish-American.

That's a good point. He got his American citizenship after 2003 and wanted to renounce his Finnish citizenship immediately, but I pleaded with him not to. So that does make him Finnish-American (heh, he won't like that). I respect his reason for wanting to renounce -- he thinks of himself as fully American -- but I prefer that at least one of us has a non-U.S. passport, and I wanted an option to easily live elsewhere if things get intolerable here. Also, once we have children, they will be eligible for immediate citizenship because their father is a Finnish citizen. (IIRC, the same would not be true if it was just the mother who was Finnish.) That could be a good thing in terms of them having future options, but if any of our children are male, they'll be required to do compulsory military service. Now that Finland is engaged (albeit minimally) in foreign wars, I'm not so sure that's a good thing.

Blogger Markku August 09, 2012 10:06 AM  

So that does make him Finnish-American (heh, he won't like that).

Women always ruin everything. Now he's stuck with his PC credentials - the scarlet letter of multiculturalism.

Anonymous Stickwick August 09, 2012 12:35 PM  

Yes, we do ruin everything, and even pass down the ruination to the next generation -- our children will probably be Finnish-American, too. But at least it's an accurate apellation, and not some lame attempt to hold onto a meaningless cultural identity.

Blogger R. Bradley Andrews August 09, 2012 12:56 PM  

My grandfather changed his name from Andruscevich (sp?) to Andrews, much to the chagrin of his family due to the dislike of Poles in Chicago (or so I am told). Made it a lot easier for me to write my last name when I was young! I definitely feel no connection with modern day Poland, even though I am most likely more than half Polish by ancestry.

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