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Sunday, August 12, 2012

The end of the US banking system

Ann Barnhardt explains why it is time to not only get one's assets out of the US financial markets, but the US banks as well.
What this [Sentinel ruling] means is that even if Jon Corzine is somehow dragged into court by private citizens, because you know damn good and well that the Justice Department will never, ever touch him, Corzine now has a legal precedent, likely from a bribed or otherwise coerced Federal Appeals Court, explicitly stating that an FCM can use customer deposits to pay its debts, and that the customers themselves are subjugated and have basically no legal right to their own monies, no matter what the law says, or what legal assurances, claims or guarantees are made to that customer about their funds held with an FCM or any other brokerage or depository institution. The "secured" party at the front of the line will always be the mega-bank who made the fraudulent loan using the stolen customer funds as collateral.

In other words, all customer funds in the United States are now the legal property of JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, BNYM, or whichever megabank is the counterparty on the loans the FCM or depository institution takes out in order to fund its mega-levered proprietary in-house trading desks.

For the love of God, I don't know what more there could possibly be to say to snap you people out of your normalcy bias trance. You have GOT to get ALL MONIES out of the financial system NOW. This ruling sets precedence for every depository institution, not just futures brokerages. It is now legal in the United States for any financial institution to steal customer funds, borrow money against those funds for the uber-levered proprietary trading use of the financial institution, and the customers have ZERO CLAIM TO THEIR OWN FUNDS once they are in the custody of the financial institution.

The court has ruled that once your money passes out of your PHYSICAL POSSESSION, and I mean PHYSICAL possession, it is no longer yours, and you have no legal claim or legal recourse to it when it is stolen. This includes BANK ACCOUNTS. Money in a bank is in the possession of the BANK, not you. Do you comprehend this? The entire system is utterly devoid of any integrity or genuine security and is breaking down catastophically before our very eyes. You HAVE to comprehend that your money sitting in an account is no longer legally yours. You have to force your brain to process and comprehend this, no matter how incomprehensible it may seem. IT IS OVER. This is Marxist hell. We have arrived.

This ruling and precedent will be used by every brokerage, every bank, every insurance company and every pension fund to deny you your money when the financial system finally collapses, be it on Monday, or be it two years from now.
This is the Reuters article to which she is referring. The reason the ruling is so disastrous is that it grants all depository institutions ownership of the funds on deposit with it. While this is a logical continuation of the Bankers First and Foremost policy we've been seeing from the federal government since 2008, it is burning down the village and salting the earth upon which it stood in order to save it, because there is now absolutely no sound reason to keep your money in a US bank.

Now, obviously, no banks are going to be dumb enough to take this ruling and run with it... unless it is a matter of their own survival. But the fact remains that a bank deposit is now legally considered no different than a gift from you to the bank, and depositors are now entirely dependent upon the bank's good will to spend its money on their behalf.

I tend to suspect this ruling will be reversed upon appeal once the Powers That Be realize that saving the personal fortunes of Corzine and other failed bankers isn't worth the price of destroying the US banking system. But if not, it should cause the largest banking run the world has ever known. I say "should" rather than "will", because as we know, most people are idiots and will probably continue blithely assuming that it doesn't matter what the fine print and the court rulings say, they've got a receipt showing they put their money in the bank, and money in the bank is safe, by definition.

On the other hand, I find this ruling particularly intriguing because I have observed that one can anticipate events, to a certain degree, by seeing through which hoops the elite institutions force the federal government to jump. While they wouldn't have any reason to take such risks for Corzine and company, it would make a great deal of sense to do so if they are anticipating a U.S. financial collapse in the near-to-middle term.

For example, we can safely assume Romney will win the election November on the basis of the Goldman Sachs contributions. "Four years ago, employees of New York-based Goldman gave three-fourths of their campaign donations to Democratic candidates and committees, including presidential nominee Barack Obama. This time, they’re showering 70 percent of their contributions on Republicans."

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70 Comments:

Blogger SWW August 12, 2012 7:41 AM  

"...it would make a great deal of sense to do so if they are anticipating a U.S. financial collapse in the near-to-middle term."

Would not this seem to indicate that they are?

Anonymous jg August 12, 2012 7:55 AM  

So,how safe are credit unions?

Anonymous Rantor August 12, 2012 8:29 AM  

Scary enough, now imagine you have your savings in the bank that holds your mortgage. You lose your job, the bank takes your deposits to cover their own shenanigans and OBTW now they want your house because you can't pay for it.

Welcome to pure kleptocracy.

Now for my reasoned question, any chance that this decision applies to investment banks and not to either FDIC or NCUA insured deposits? It would appear that this is the case. Who knows.

As for holding funds, I recommend a safe, in the home, fire-rated, at least 400 pounds in weight. It should be installed, bolted to the floor and if possible a wall. Safes not securely fastened and light enough for two-man carry are not nearly as secure.

Blogger James Dixon August 12, 2012 8:51 AM  

> The reason the ruling is so disastrous is that it grants all depository institutions ownership of the funds on deposit with it.

Well, they're merely making clear what had always actually been the case. That's why there are things like the FDIC and SIPC. Yeah, and they're worthless, but...

> So,how safe are credit unions?

Do you really need to ask.

> ...any chance that this decision applies to investment banks and not to either FDIC or NCUA insured deposits?

Possibly, but do you really think it won't be expanded to them?

As Vox routinely points out, the law no longer applies those in power and well connected. What the law says is immaterial if you cross the wrong people or they want your money.

Anonymous Peter Bishop August 12, 2012 9:00 AM  

I want to find that door to the "other side." It would be fun to fly on airships for a while, and go up and down WTC1 and WTC2. Oh, I guess WTC7 is also there. And, (woohoo!) no pens and paper! (Where are the damn flying cars?)

Screw all that. Let's just nab these guys, hang them gently with piano wire into a tub full of piranhas... (make our own damn flying cars.)

Anonymous DT August 12, 2012 9:11 AM  

ALL YOUR BANK ACCOUNT ARE BELONG TO US!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. But I am going to start pulling money out of my bank and storing it in a safe. I've had a feeling that would be wise for a while now. This just confirms it.

Blogger Robert S. Oculus III August 12, 2012 9:33 AM  

I'm a small business owner. Besides banks or credit unions, where am I to put my money? I can't bring $25,000 in cash into my house every night no matter how big my safe might be. Am I supposed to bury my daily receipts in a mayonnaise jar behind the barn?

Anonymous stats1979 August 12, 2012 9:37 AM  

"I tend to suspect this ruling will be reversed upon appeal once the Powers That Be realize that saving the personal fortunes of Corzine and other failed bankers isn't worth the price of destroying the US banking system."

Ruling won't be reversed. There is enough precedent to support the ruling. What is required is a rewrite of the bankruptcy law that makes intermingling of segregated accounts ipso facto fraud. This case hinged on whether Sentinel had an "intent" to commit fraud when it moved segregated funds to lienable accounts. Precedential cases make it hard as hell to prove intent.

Not sure this really applies to banks. This case was about bankruptcy law, and banks don't really declare bankruptcy (do they?) they usually get taken over by the FDIC. I would assume that Federal Banking laws would apply in that case.

Anonymous VD August 12, 2012 9:47 AM  

Am I supposed to bury my daily receipts in a mayonnaise jar behind the barn?

Why is that anyone's problem? The point is to understand that all of the money you leave in the financial system is liable to seizure by the bank.

Not sure this really applies to banks.

Only banks that loan out their deposits....

Anonymous stevev August 12, 2012 10:07 AM  

Great. I hope these question don't betray absolute stupidity on my part: As executor of my Mom's estate I had to create an account soley for the estate monies during probate. Her house just sold and I duly deposited the proceeds in the account.
I have three other brothers who are heirs. What options do I have for safekeeping this money, and satisfying the legal requirements of the probate process? Can I move the funds to a foreign bank? I wouldn't have the slightest clue how to do that, nor do I know if such a transfer would trigger legal scrutiny.

Blogger Jardinera654 August 12, 2012 10:09 AM  

Oculus wrote: I'm a small business owner. Besides banks or credit unions, where am I to put my money? I can't bring $25,000 in cash into my house every night no matter how big my safe might be. Am I supposed to bury my daily receipts in a mayonnaise jar behind the barn?

Jamal doesn't put his day's receipts from crack dealing in the bank. At this point, is your money any less safe in the Bank of Sealy, than in BoA?

It's pretty hard for some guy at a computer in Belarus to hack into your mattress. Short of the SWAT team breaking down your door at 3AM, its also pretty difficult for TPTB to lay their hands on it.

Let the firm of Smith, Wesson, Ruger, and Mossberg, provide security. It will prove a damn sight more effective than the FDIC should push come to shove.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 12, 2012 10:21 AM  

The point is to understand that all of the money you leave in the financial system is liable to seizure by the bank.

I had assumed that it was the government that would seize our retirement savings and funds in general.

I guess I was wrong.

Anonymous Stilicho August 12, 2012 10:39 AM  

I had assumed that it was the government that would seize our retirement savings and funds in general.

I guess I was wrong.


You were not wrong, you merely failed to anticipate the elimination of the middleman in that transaction.

Anonymous anon123 August 12, 2012 10:43 AM  

Now expect further rulings on withdrawal limits and possession limits.

Anonymous Godfrey August 12, 2012 10:46 AM  

In the past I laughed at the Midle Ages. I thought them to be primitive people in castles. Their chest of gold kept hidden and defended inside. I don't laugh anymore.

Blogger James Dixon August 12, 2012 11:01 AM  

> Now expect further rulings on withdrawal limits and possession limits.

You have learned well, grasshopper. :)

Blogger IM2L844 August 12, 2012 11:12 AM  

Now expect further rulings on withdrawal limits and possession limits.

Not only that. I fully expect that within a shot time it will be law that everyone MUST have a bank account in order to complete any financial transaction with the government such as making entitlement funds or tax reimbursements available to the recipients.

Most people are already wrapped up in electronic banking and bill payments. It's the welfare crowd that I see lined up at the grocery store customer service counters to cash their welfare checks at the first of every month. They must find a way to force those people into the system.

Anonymous Orville August 12, 2012 11:28 AM  

Any business owner is screwed at this point. I work for a small business that has gross receipts close to a million. Excess cash is in money market funds, operating cash is in a bank, and it would be a bookkeeping bitch to run on a physical cash basis since most payments are made electronically. The various insurance companies don't want to be paid in cash or money order, and the employee health insurance debits our account.

Personally I keep all excess cash out of the bank and in my physical control.

Anonymous Dr. J August 12, 2012 11:29 AM  

They must find a way to force those people into the system.

Sure - the government can force you to buy anything or pay a "tax" thanks to the good Justice Roberts.

Bankster banana republic indeed.

Blogger IM2L844 August 12, 2012 11:30 AM  

ALL YOUR BANK ACCOUNT ARE BELONG TO US!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.


I use to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee.

Anonymous The OASF August 12, 2012 11:38 AM  

"Most people are already wrapped up in electronic banking and bill payments. It's the welfare crowd that I see lined up at the grocery store customer service counters to cash their welfare checks at the first of every month. They must find a way to force those people into the system."

I believe unemployment compensation essentially requires a bank account for direct deposit, since the only other alternative is a state-issued debit card which can only be used at certain banks and is subject to many fees upon use. Outside of the welfare system, I believe US Treasury Bonds now must be purchased electronically? Not entirely sure about that one.

What amuses me about all this will be the "go local" crowd and the nullification-ers. The local banks, grocery stores, and gas stations stick it to the community like you wouldn't believe around here. The local bank, a relatively new branch, denies their customers online banking and are not "online" as in instant funds availability, no electronically generated deposit slips, no money orders, exorbitant fees for cashiers checks, fees for checking account non-use (e.g. a debit card must be used 12 times per month), and of course the putrid interest rates. I was even told by one of the managers that they might DO AWAY WITH SAVINGS ACCOUNTS ALL TOGETHER! That's no joke, folks.

My only recommendation is physical possession of gold or silver, particularly gold. That's problematic for a variety of reasons, but I don't see much of an alternative. So I'm certainly open to suggestions if anyone has any.

Anonymous The OASF August 12, 2012 11:45 AM  

Just a side note... "go local" isn't altogether bad. If you can find a local organic grower then that is a real treasure. I have been fortunate enough to get the staples of my diet... spring water (from the springhouse), organic eggs, raw organic milk, apple cider vinegar, and bread locally and from sources I trust. Or I can get ingredients to make/grow my own.

I would not, however, trust some of the people advertising at the local growers market who say their stuff is "all natural" or whatever. I'm sure it most likely isn't as bad as the corporate farming produce - but I would not trust anyone outright, even the local-yocals.

Sorry, way OT...

Anonymous Roundtine August 12, 2012 11:54 AM  

This wouldn't only destroy the banking system, it would end the lives of most bankers and politicians, in addition to anyone else caught in the crossfire.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza August 12, 2012 12:05 PM  

Good.

No surprise, during the last few weeks mainstream media was reporting (warning) the top 5 banks better swiftly draft living wills in case of collapse.

The system need revenue whether they steal under the guise of taxation, health care, war (spending ?) and the confiscation of death benefits/pensions.

(I've been without a checking account since 2007. And I was too broke to keep my credit union savings account open in 2001. What for? A devaluing money is better off made into gold or silver. Either way, I'm just a poor pauper.)

Anonymous Noah B. August 12, 2012 12:06 PM  

"While they wouldn't have any reason to take such risks for Corzine and company, it would make a great deal of sense to do so if they are anticipating a U.S. financial collapse in the near-to-middle term."

I had the same thought when I first read this article.

However, I don't think this ruling really changes anything regarding commercial banking in the US. It was always the case that banks loan out customer deposits, and the only insurance the customer has against bank failure now is the FDIC/NCUA. Clearly neither institution has the funds to insure against a bank system failure or the means to compel the government to increase their funding. If the banking system did collapse, it's anybody's guess as to how the government would react and whether they would increase the money supply drastically enough to backstop the FDIC.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 12, 2012 12:32 PM  

I figure that Iran's sin is not that it is trying to develop nuclear anything. Its sin is that it wants to wean itself off the international banking system and the US dollar.

Anonymous Big Bill August 12, 2012 1:36 PM  

Given the "as a matter of law" language, I suspect the decision was on a motion for summary judgment. If so, all the judge has done is say he won't settle the issue before trial. That, if we assume all facts are favorable to the investment bankers, he cannot decide as a matter of law that the bankers should go to the end of the line. That being said, it is troubling that he cannot do so. Without Glass-Stegall we would appear to be at risk. Are there any banks that, by law, cannot fool around in investment banking? Anyone have a (free) link to the decision?

Blogger Desert Cat August 12, 2012 1:37 PM  

Yup. That was Saddam's sin and Qadaffi's sin.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 12, 2012 1:44 PM  

Tripple citizenship is all the rage among the elite

Anonymous The other skeptic August 12, 2012 1:53 PM  


Yup. That was Saddam's sin and Qadaffi's sin.


Then clearly there has to be a showdown, because the 800lb gorilla wants to do that as well.

Blogger RobertT August 12, 2012 2:39 PM  

Some people seem to be missing the issue here. The ruling elite in the U.S. can do anything they want to do, whenever and however they want to do it, and they can go about their lives completely unhindered by any law that happens to exist. That takes precedence over any law or ruling of moral directive. If you thought we were protected by the law, you were wrong. We are living in a more visible form of the matrix. We exist for them to milk us dry. This court decision just happened, but the actual fact existed long before the court decision. And it doesn't matter if they end up changing this decision, it will exist in fact even if the law says otherwise. Wait for the meltdown and see.

Anonymous JI August 12, 2012 2:48 PM  

Ann quotes the judge as saying that, even though Sentinel did not segregate customer funds, that did not mean it acted with any malicious intent. What the heck? Who cares if they had malicious intent to steal the funds or if they just broke the law in order to have fun gambling away client money. Is this judge in the pay of some cabal of bankers? Or is this one of those points of law that matter a great deal but which I am simply too dense to understand?

Anonymous Outlaw X August 12, 2012 4:17 PM  

However, I don't think this ruling really changes anything regarding commercial banking in the US.

The point I would like to emphasize is they are doing all this in the open. This is highly indicative that they are planning to pull the string. I also expect a very large war in October with the threat of nuclear implications.

Anonymous Anonymous August 12, 2012 4:31 PM  

Collectivization-on-demand, and no Germans to save us.

Decollectivization under German occupation Wiki article.

Anonymous Anonymous August 12, 2012 4:58 PM  

First. This article from this woman is over 6 months old. And even at the time it was political to highlight Corzine as a Democrat. Second the SEC ruling allows firms to trade assets that have been placed as COLLATERAL in trading institutions and not general deposits. So, here we are today six months later and lo and behold, the world didn't end, most deposits are safe, and the financial system is still intact. You guys just keep screaming that the sky is falling the sky is falling since 2008 and it hasn't. The Bernankification of the money supply would lead to hyperinflation, it didn't. Gold would go to $5000, it didn't. The dollar will be worthless, it isn't. Nobody will buy our bonds, they do. The US Bonds are still the safest investment in the world. The EC would fall last October, November, Dec, two weeks into the New Year and so on and so on and it didn't. Greece would surely leave the EU, it hasn't. So all of hyperbole is you guys saying "Emergency Emergency Read my blog, buy my book. I know things that nobody else does". All this post did for me was make me discredit you as a blowhard the very first time I every read your blog. I have no idea why people link to you from the Manosphere. You discredit all those other writers if you post gloom and doom crap like this. Pleas!! It is recycled old reactionary crap for sure. Slow day? I'm kind of coming to the conclusion that maybe a bunch of Ivy trained bankers that are running the system might know a little bit more about banking than you reactionary blogsters.

Blogger Robert S. Oculus III August 12, 2012 5:28 PM  

Jardinera654 August 12, 2012 10:09 AM: Let the firm of Smith, Wesson, Ruger, and Mossberg, provide security.

I already do. Unfortunately (no pun intended), Smith, Wesson, Ruger, and Mossberg require an "operating partner" (me) to be physically on the premises 24/7 or their security guarantee is null and void. Since I can't be on-site 24/7...

Also: my creditors (several of which are government entities) demand payment by electronic debit or by check, which of course implies a bank account. They would be unamused if I started sending them envelopes stuffed full of wrinkled twenties instead.

Do you know who works for cash? Dope dealers, masseueses, ticket scalpers, and the Mexican paleta guy with the bicycle-mounted freezer. Every other businessperson in the world has to have a bank account or they don't do business. And since my kids don't eat if I don't do business... well, you see my point.

I already have a little stash of twenty-dollar bills I keep hidden away in case a tornado or power outage kills the ATMs. I think what I'm going to do is find a locally-owned state bank in some hick town way outside the metro area and pre-position a few thousand bucks in cash in a safe deposit box there. That way I can at least buy food and gas when the crap hits the fan, assuming it ever does.

Anonymous TheExpat August 12, 2012 5:34 PM  

Not only that. I fully expect that within a shot time it will be law that everyone MUST have a bank account in order to complete any financial transaction with the government such as making entitlement funds or tax reimbursements available to the recipients.

Don't forget the RFID chip in the right hand or forehead, mark of the beast for commerce and all that.

Anonymous FrankNorman August 12, 2012 6:49 PM  

Two questions:

How will this affect banks in other countries?

And any response to the Anonymous poster who called you a blowhard?

Anonymous Stilicho August 12, 2012 6:49 PM  

Then clearly there has to be a showdown, because the 800lb gorilla wants to do that as well.

Michelle?

Anonymous The One August 12, 2012 6:54 PM  

I'm a CTA and now I'm truly concerned for my customer's funds. I guess I have to make as much money as fast as I can and then close the program

Anonymous Stilicho August 12, 2012 6:59 PM  

First. This article from this woman is over 6 months old. And even at the time it was political to highlight Corzine as a Democrat. Second the SEC ruling allows firms to trade assets that have been placed as COLLATERAL in trading institutions and not general deposits. So, here we are today six months later and lo and behold, the world didn't end, most deposits are safe, and the financial system is still intact. You guys just keep screaming that the sky is falling the sky is falling since 2008 and it hasn't. The Bernankification of the money supply would lead to hyperinflation, it didn't. Gold would go to $5000, it didn't. The dollar will be worthless, it isn't. Nobody will buy our bonds, they do. The US Bonds are still the safest investment in the world. The EC would fall last October, November, Dec, two weeks into the New Year and so on and so on and it didn't. Greece would surely leave the EU, it hasn't. So all of hyperbole is you guys saying "Emergency Emergency Read my blog, buy my book. I know things that nobody else does". All this post did for me was make me discredit you as a blowhard the very first time I every read your blog. I have no idea why people link to you from the Manosphere. You discredit all those other writers if you post gloom and doom crap like this. Pleas!! It is recycled old reactionary crap for sure. Slow day? I'm kind of coming to the conclusion that maybe a bunch of Ivy trained bankers that are running the system might know a little bit more about banking than you reactionary blogsters.

Nothing like a liberal moron with her knickers in a knot for pure amusement. 1) The article is from August 9, 2012, learn to count; 2) deflationary depression...our host wrote a feakin' book about it, reading comprehension is your friend...and it is irrelevant to the point being made anyway; 3) you are obviously too short for this ride, but keep jumping.. it's fun to watch; and 4) show Josh your boobs.

Anonymous VD August 12, 2012 7:10 PM  

You guys just keep screaming that the sky is falling the sky is falling since 2008 and it hasn't. The Bernankification of the money supply would lead to hyperinflation, it didn't. Gold would go to $5000, it didn't. The dollar will be worthless, it isn't.

First, don't comment anonymously again or it will be deleted. Second, you're a complete fucking moron who doesn't appear to have any idea who he is attacking so ineptly. When have I ever claimed there would be hyperinflation? I'm a DEFLATIONIST, for crying out loud. Or that gold would go to $5000. And I advised people to short the EURO, not the dollar.

And third, I've already explained why the bottom hasn't dropped out yet. It's in the Z1 report. Things can stay operational so long Washington can keep doubling its debt at rapidly decreasing intervals, 3.5 years was the last one.

Anonymous VD August 12, 2012 7:12 PM  

And any response to the Anonymous poster who called you a blowhard?

Yes, he's a complete fucking moron who has clearly read nothing of what I have written about the economy since 2002.

Anonymous VD August 12, 2012 7:14 PM  

How will this affect banks in other countries?

Should add to their business. People are increasingly inclined to blow off the USA because the authorities are getting more and more visibly insane. It's simply not worth it to do business there anymore; the extra compliance costs alone are greater than the potential profits.

Blogger IM2L844 August 12, 2012 7:25 PM  

Don't forget the RFID chip in the right hand or forehead, mark of the beast for commerce and all that.

Scoff if you will, but here's some indication of the direction we're headed from the official US government's website for the Bureau of Financial Management Service:

The final rule, published on December 21, 2010, amends 31 CFR Part 208 (Part 208) to require recipients of federal benefit and nontax payments to receive their payments by electronic funds transfer (EFT).

People applying for Social Security, Veterans benefits or other federal benefits on or after May 1, 2011, will receive their payments electronically starting with their first payment. People currently receiving federal benefit checks will need to switch to an electronic payment option by March 1, 2013.


I don't think it's too much of a stretch to extrapolate from that a general conclusion that everyone will be required to have a bank account sooner or later. It's certainly not any sort of bizarre unfounded speculation. I just happen to think the indicators are pointing toward sooner rather than later.

Anonymous E. PERLINE August 12, 2012 7:36 PM  

The gold dealer advertises that he pays highest prices for gold. You sell him some gold jewelry, etc. that your family has owned for years.

How do you think he pays you? He pays you with paper currency. He makes a profit on each transaction. So he keeps some gold and sells some gold and winds up with more currency than when he started with. How does he pay his expenses? He pays his expenses with currency checks, not gold. Does he dream about having lots of gold? No, he dreams about having lots of paper currency. As unstable as it is, paper currency is the handiestmedium of exchange.

None of us can predict the future. Don't let anyone talk you out of piling your dollars somewhere.

Anonymous The One August 12, 2012 8:00 PM  

Vox, I assume that your posting of this article means you agree with it in it's entirely. because I'm starting to have a moral conflict

Anonymous The One August 12, 2012 9:29 PM  

If this is all true

Anonymous harry12 August 12, 2012 9:32 PM  

This thread brings to mind that old joke:
In Russia, the ATM withdraws money from you!

Anonymous Matt August 12, 2012 9:33 PM  

As unstable as it is, paper currency is the handiestmedium of exchange.

Well sure. But if I make $2000/month and spend $1800/month, I will eventually have a pile of cash that isn't being exchanged. Is bits on a bank hard drive the best way to store it? Is paper money in a mattress the best way to store it? Gold in a safe deposit box? A huge pile of .22LR buried in the back yard?

Beats me, but just because paper is a good way to exchange doesn't mean it's a good way to store.

Anonymous realmatt August 12, 2012 10:00 PM  

If it doesn't happen overnight then it will never happen, apparently.

Do liberals imagine everything is like a 2 hour movie?

If it wasn't long and drawn out, people wouldn't be as accepting and lazy as they are. A swift overnight overhaul leads to an overnight war.

You think these evil bastards are stupid? They may be short sighted regarding longterm consequences but they know how to get what they want.

Anonymous realmatt August 12, 2012 10:08 PM  

The gold dealer advertises that he pays highest prices for gold. You sell him some gold jewelry, etc. that your family has owned for years.

How do you think he pays you? He pays you with paper currency. He makes a profit on each transaction. So he keeps some gold and sells some gold and winds up with more currency than when he started with. How does he pay his expenses? He pays his expenses with currency checks, not gold. Does he dream about having lots of gold? No, he dreams about having lots of paper currency. As unstable as it is, paper currency is the handiestmedium of exchange.

None of us can predict the future. Don't let anyone talk you out of piling your dollars somewhere.


You daft fool are you new to the world???

People value this toilet paper money because they have the things that hold REAL VALUE, like food, shelter, pussy, etc.

Once that goes, you think they'll care about your stash of paper? For wiping their ass, they might.

Food, water, shelter, women, weapons, gas, mad scientists, things that are necessary for survival of the individual, the family and the species, and things that aid in survival are always valuable and always will be. Gold has consistently performed better than money backed by hopes and dreams. that's the only reason it, along with silver, are touted as hoard-worthy.

It's that simple.

Blogger ajw308 August 13, 2012 12:04 AM  

Banking Customer: Oh, but I have FDIC protection.

Federal Official: But you fail to see, at the point you deposited them, they were no longer yours.

I'm wondering if they'll be able to hold it together till the November. Failure to hold it together and cancel the elections due to Marshal Law might be the only way Harrison J. Bounel, Barry Sotero, or whatever he calls himself today might be able to keep his position.

Blogger ajw308 August 13, 2012 12:11 AM  

Then clearly there has to be a showdown, because the 800lb gorilla wants to do that as well.

Michelle?


Raciss!!

Anonymous FP August 13, 2012 12:19 AM  

Read her latest entry on the ruling from the 12th, someone sent her the ruling from westlaw and wrote:

"Miss Barnhardt,

I thought you might be interested in reading the actual opinion of the In Re Sentinel Group case, which I have attached in PDF. It was very hard to find for some reason, and I had to access my Westlaw account in order to get it. I think it would be well worth your time to read it, as I am afraid that it appears to confirm what you have been saying.

The entire case reads like an after-the-fact rationalization of a predetermined conclusion. Years ago when I was with a different firm, I worked on numerous major institutional fraud and auditing cases, and I cannot recall a ruling even remotely similar - let alone from a federal court of appeals.

Please pay particular attention to the section on equitable subordination, on pages 6 through 8. Unbelievably, the court acknowledged in that section that even though some of the bankers lied under oath during the trial, that fact did not prove "sufficiently egregious" actions on the part of the bank.

I will quote the opinion: "Instead of finding that their testimony [i.e. their lies] justified a finding of egregious bank behavior, the district court essentially found that the bank officials were such artless liars that they couldn't have been concealing deliberate wrongdoing." See page 7, column 2.

So in other words, a U.S. Court of Appeals has found that if a banker lies under oath during a trial, that fact proves that the bank was innocent of any misconduct with respect to the subject matter of those lies. Did we get transported to bizarro world without knowing it?"

Anonymous oregon mouse August 13, 2012 1:03 AM  

Outside of using accounts to pay bills we do our real baking with our bullion dealer. He doesn't even know our first names. He doesn't ask and we don't tell yet we enjoy a pleasant conversation every time we change money back and forth.
I wish I could say the same about our 401k and pension. Unfortunately, we can't liberate them yet and maybe not ever by the way things are going.

Anonymous Redneck Joe August 13, 2012 2:46 AM  

oregon mouse
"I wish I could say the same about our 401k and pension. Unfortunately, we can't liberate them yet and maybe not ever by the way things are going."

I just walked into a Fidelity office and asked them for a check a couple of weeks ago. It was in my mailbox in 3 days. So now I will have to send 10% plus my marginal income tax to the IRS in April.
I don't like the penalty, but I don't regret this action at all. I debated it for a couple of years, but feel much better now that it is done.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza August 13, 2012 5:21 AM  

Semi OT: I was at the grocery store checkout and a lady in front of me had a new kind of swipe card. I asked her what it was, she was on SSI for a series of problems. Instead of direct deposit into a bank she had a swipe card. I wonder if JPM is running those like SNAP card and if they are fees/penalties.

Anonymous E. PERLINE August 13, 2012 9:42 AM  

If the landscape is littered with ruination and food is in short supply, do you think you'll buy it with scraps of gold? Gold will have suddenly lost its glamor.

Let me give you a real grim picture of what could happen. The contents of savings banks would be worthless. The portfolios of stocks and bonds would be worthless. 401Ks and other instruments of retirement would be worthless. Pensions would be worthless. Why? Because we were being paid more than future traffic will bear! As a result, there will be no accumulated value in anything, not even in gold.

I'm an atheist. If you're religious you may have faith that this mess will never occur. I hope so too.

Anonymous Anonymous August 13, 2012 9:44 AM  

I hate to point out that money printed by the Federal Reserve or the Treasury has ALWAYS been their property. That being said I, too, a Broker like Ann Berkhardt. I think I'll short the market while fools raid the banks and get rich over night.

YES, communism is here and yes they will confiscate your money and your property at will once Obama is re-elected.

Anonymous JP (real one) August 13, 2012 10:15 AM  

MF Global should be a major election issue. Corzine is Obama's #1 Wall Street fundraiser and I believe he still is/was bundling for Obama during all this mess.

Moreover, he has ties to the (In)Justice Dept, which is another reason Holder hasn't gone after him. This is 100X worse than anything Obama tries to pin on Bain.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/26/REVEALED-Corzine-s-MF-Global-Was-a-Client-of-Eric%20Holder-s-Law-Firm

Of course, most peopl won't care unless they've been affected, and few have. But it's not just so-called "greedy futures traders" who have been screwed. Lots of farmers who use futures purely for hedging have as well--many of them used or cleared transactions through MF. And a lot of MF clients were relatively conservative high-net worth types--not stereotypical day traders. These were folks who used managed futures as a better alternative to the more highly rigged stock market casino (yes, you read that correctly).

Anonymous Stilicho August 13, 2012 11:30 AM  

If the landscape is littered with ruination and food is in short supply, do you think you'll buy it with scraps of gold? Gold will have suddenly lost its glamor.

There's no fool like an old fool. Find any famine, revolution, etc. where gold could not be exchanged for goods. Sure, food becomes dearer, but it will still be for sale in exchange for gold. At a price. For dollars, it won't be for sale at any price. That's the difference.

Anonymous Stilicho August 13, 2012 11:49 AM  

I've read the appellate decision and the lower court decision it generally defers to. It boils down to this: despite the lies of bank executives, despite the admitted strong suspicions of bank executives that Sentinel was fraudulently pledging customers' segregated assets as collateral for Sentinel's own loan, despite the banks continual demands for more and better collateral to secure Sentinel's loan, despite the bank's knowledge of assets being transferred from segregated accounts to non-segregated accounts, the bank was entitled to rely upon Sentinel's representation (in the letter agreements signed when these accounts were opened many years prior to the fraud and bankruptcy) that it would not pledge customers' segregated assets and it's just too bad for the defrauded customers, but the bank gets to keep their assets as collateral for its loan to Sentinel.

Why, one would almost think the bank was also a victim rather than a willing conspirator with Sentinel. The court simply dismisses the fact that the bank was motivated to participate in the fraud, not for the purpose of defrauding Sentinel's customers, but for the purpose of protecting itself from Sentinel's insolvency. That might be valid reasoning were this simply a matter of a dispute between Sentinel and the bank, but it is not. It is the court's role to determine who stands first in line to recover their money from whatever remains after Sentinel's collapse: the customers who were told they held assets in segregated accounts, or the bank that actively assisted Sentinel in its fraudulent desegregation of those accounts. Indeed, the court goes one step further and, by virtue of this ruling, makes it clear that it is in a bank's best interest to remain willfully ignorant of any wrongdoing of this nature despite any red flags that may arise.

Blogger john August 13, 2012 1:41 PM  

I'm going to read all the comments, so I don't know if someone has already mentioned this or not: Money is not wealth. Food stores, communications, shelter, security, tools - these are the accoutrements of wealth. I'm not going to worry about saving the cash or the gold. I'm going to have strategic stores of tangible goods. I haven't read the book yet, but this idea was advanced by a book, The Alpha Strategy: http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=9676

Blogger john August 13, 2012 1:47 PM  

I figure that Iran's sin is not that it is trying to develop nuclear anything. Its sin is that it wants to wean itself off the international banking system and the US dollar.

You got that right. The reason we went to war with Iraq is because they dared challenge the dollar hegemony. Doesn't anyone remember them selling oil to France without dollars? This is why we went to war with Iraq. We may not have anything else, but we've poured all our money into the military empire. We are basically a big bully in the world telling the rest to give us their lunch money or else look what we did to Iraq. You'll be next.

Anonymous Jimmy August 13, 2012 2:20 PM  

Foreign banks are not safer. What is the solution? None that I can think of except to put your money under the mattress and hope there isn't a house fire.

Anonymous E. PERLINE August 13, 2012 4:24 PM  

I helped land the Allied troops in Europe (WW2). Germany was experiencing food shortages, but gold was never mentioned. I heard that some young girls could make deals. Whatever they were, I guess they're off topic.

Save your bank notes. Our country zigs and zags and finds a way out.

Anonymous Anonymous August 15, 2012 8:16 AM  

The maniacs write laws, managed by the courts, and enforced by the cops. Lots and lots of cops - each with nice Gov benefits.

With the advent of bio-metrics and computers & comms, everyone can be ID'd and tracked.
For the hard-cases, there is high-tech combined with some form of SWAT.

Unless you can live off squirrels, you will have to go through the system to get paid for your work.

They know who you are, they can find you & yours, and then the cops will either kill you or toss you into a prison of some kind.

Why imagine a Dystopian future - its already here, hiding in plain sight. Ignore the fluff, and its there, clear as day. Just a matter of the backdrop, really.

It seems clear to me that the world of the Anti-Christ is already here: the thing to notice is that the heart of this hell-beast are the courts. A new type of civilization has been created - politics is nothing more than a show - a thing of spreading darkness and manifested evil.

-CB

Anonymous Anonymous August 15, 2012 12:01 PM  

Vox,
are credit unions also in this cagtegory?

Blogger Magnetic Crack Detector May 06, 2013 3:26 AM  

This is 100X worse than anything Obama tries to pin on Bain.
MPI Machine

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