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Thursday, October 04, 2012

The first debate

He says it like it's a good thing:
Obama has always relied on the big money men in private, while disparaging them in public.  But what happens when he comes up against one of them in the most public way possible?  Now we know the answer, and it ain’t pretty. The president appeared small and petulant and reactive.  Romney looked presidential and secure and proactive.
While Republicans are quite reasonably celebrating the fact that Romney demolished a hapless Obama sans teleprompter in the debate - disproving once again the notion that Obama is a supergenius master of rhetoric - they don't seem to be thinking through the obvious implications of what they are witnessing.  Obama has never been more than a tool of those who have financially raped the nation.  Romney is one of the financial rapists.

How can anyone imagine Mitt Romney has any intention of fixing the very problems that he helped foster and from which he profited so massively?

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132 Comments:

Anonymous Greatheart October 04, 2012 3:57 AM  

Aside from making Ron Paul treasury secretary with a direct mandate to audit/abolish the FED, is there anything Romney could do, or say, that would suggest he has left what has been implied the pillaging behavior of his past(my paraphrase)? I'm not trying to be smart about it, I just wonder if, as president, he will have attained every goal he has wanted then, with no need to ever earn another dollar he might just be able to, at least, steer the country back to a smaller, simpler government, or will he still be beholden to whatever PTB? Just curious as I have absolutely no survival skills to look forward to.

Anonymous FrankNorman October 04, 2012 3:58 AM  

Well Vox, isn't it better to have someone who knows what's going on than someone who doesn't?

The Big Money people don't want America to crash and burn, because then they wouldn't be able to keep making all that lovely moolah.

Anonymous Kyle In Japan October 04, 2012 4:11 AM  

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6830834/mitt-romney-style-gangnam-style-parody

This tells me everything I need to know about Romney in just one video.

Anonymous Just Mark October 04, 2012 4:30 AM  

Yah what Frank said.

Dear great heart. The Guardians will say we need a Federal Reserve Bank. So perhaps a better more compelling even left wing nut job like argument would be to say "Why not form a Federal Reserve Credit Union to replace the Federal Reserve Bank?" Everyone who has an SSN and passed through a birth canal is an automatic member and the functions remain the same. I honestly don't have a clue what kind of an affect it would have on the system but watching the Guardians spew would be priceless.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza October 04, 2012 5:38 AM  

Ha! Oh please: today's headline on ft.com is 'Romney dominates debate.'

These pple are a farce and a half.

Anonymous AdognamedOp October 04, 2012 6:00 AM  

Well, regardless of what side of the fence, or lofty position above it, one sits, it was fun watching the messianic one get his ass kicked tonight.

Anonymous Rantor October 04, 2012 6:03 AM  

Lp999,

Having watched the debate, I felt Romney was the clear winner, as did two thirds of the people polled by CNN. doesn't mean I will vote for Romney, just means that he won the debate. If you think Obama won it, fine... But the farce is Obama telling me he has lowered my taxes (lie), or touting how his healthcare reform will help me (lie), or telling us how many jobs he's created (Big Lie).

The truth is that by any rational measure Obama is a failure. Now, as he seemingly prepares to involve us in a war in Syria as the rest of his Mideast policy fails (unless his goal is to build the Caliphate) we face another unneeded war. Of course, if his goal is the destruction of the US economy by devaluing the dollar and destruction of US industry by cutting 25% of our electrical production capacity by forcing coal plants off-line then he is wildly successful.

Anonymous Stilicho October 04, 2012 6:09 AM  

Dumb and evil vs smart and evil? Or is it lazy and evil vs competent and evil? Either way, there's a pattern here and the unholy alliance between Washington and Wall Street remains unchallenged. Free shit for everyone: banks, unions, and favored fundraisers get bailout billions; the other welfare queens get cellphones.

Anonymous Mr. Tzu October 04, 2012 6:27 AM  

Apple Dumpling Gang versus Ocean's Eleven.

I enjoyed the list in the previous comment section detailing Paul Ryan's voting record.

Blogger Positive Dennis October 04, 2012 6:45 AM  

Romney will try to fix the system if elected. But as part of the system, can he remove his blinders? It is awful that I, as an optimist, look forword to a decade of decline.

I did find it interesting that Vox's thesis that Obama does not want to be elected fits his debate performance.

Anonymous Logan October 04, 2012 6:56 AM  

This might sound crazy, but part of me wants Obama to win his second term just so Rand Paul has a chance for the Republican nomination in 2016. I'm not yet convinced that Romney is worse than Obama, but if Romney becomes president in November, we almost surely wouldn't see Paul, who, while he isn't his dad, is still better than Romney.

Scenario #1: 4 more years of Obama + 4 years of Paul
Scenario #2: 4 years of Romney + 4 years of the Lizard Queen

Too much speculation for such a late hour; it's almost 5am in Edmonton.

Anonymous Greatheart October 04, 2012 7:14 AM  

On a much lighter note, JetBlue offers a consolation prize for losers.

Anonymous Stilicho October 04, 2012 7:29 AM  

Now I'm all for flattening the tax code as a general principle, but Mitt must be counting on winning the votes of the innumerate if he expects anyone to believe that taxing me at a 25% rate on 100% of my income is going to enable me to hire more people than taxing me at a rate of 33 1/3% on 75% of my income.

Anonymous The One October 04, 2012 7:40 AM  

Romney could win and then have a heart attack. Only benefit of him over Obama. Ryan is the best non candidate candidate.

Anonymous Kickass October 04, 2012 7:45 AM  

Just keep watching the entertainment please, http://fanaticforjesus.blogspot.com/2012/10/public-schools-biometric-hand-scanning.html?m=1 no need to notice what is done to children behind their backs.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan October 04, 2012 7:47 AM  

The last time I enjoyed a floor mopping like that was when Evander Holyfield pounded Mike Tyson from pillar to post.

Ouch.

But remember what happened in the next encounter...Tyson bit off a piece of Holyfield's ear.

Mitt...next time...wear a helmet.

Anonymous Kickass October 04, 2012 7:48 AM  

Apple Dumpling Gang versus Ocean's Eleven.

Good one.

Anonymous hood October 04, 2012 7:51 AM  

"This might sound crazy, but part of me wants Obama to win his second term just so Rand Paul has a chance for the Republican nomination in 2016"

Yep. That's crazy.At this point the only thing Rand shares with his father is a last name.

Anonymous daddynichol October 04, 2012 7:55 AM  

Both touted universal healthcare with the only differences buried in the details.

Romney as president is just another political redistribution raping waiting in the weeds. As George Carlin once said, "We're gonna fuck ya now, but we're gonna fuck ya sloooow."

Anonymous Starbuck October 04, 2012 8:08 AM  

How can anyone imagine Mitt Romney has any intention of fixing the very problems that he helped foster and from which he profited so massively?-VD

I agree... However there are massive numbers of people that want to believe it so bad that they are easily fooled. Perhaps 4 years from now people Romney willl be in Obamas shoes. Looking older, tired and sick of the whole mess.

Americans are going to vote again, they have also be duped again.

Blogger Nate October 04, 2012 8:13 AM  

"Ryan is the best non candidate candidate."

Ryan?

The Ryan that proposed a universal healthcare bill that makes Obamacare look like the affordable small government option???

Anonymous CaptDMO October 04, 2012 8:16 AM  

Obama has never been more than a tool of those who have financially raped the nation. Romney is one of the financial rapists.

So..the best ethical value on my bottled water would come from buying at Stapells, or Mall-Wart?(sic)
Can't wait to see what my revised IRS "Tax assessment", as well as my "digitally coded comprehensive "medical" history print out, looks like in 2014.

If I'm actually allowed to see them.

Anonymous dB October 04, 2012 8:17 AM  

With Obama "losing" this debate perhaps this is another marker(as Vox has been pointing to) that maybe he is trying to throw the election w/o throwing the election? I for one prefer the pimp to the whore anyway. Sarcasm now off.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza October 04, 2012 8:29 AM  

Hi Rantor,

Excellent points. Last night's scene left many with the feeling of doom not the hope for success or national success. But overall, all we can do is wait and see.

Anonymous Jeigh Di October 04, 2012 8:31 AM  

There's something in Mormon prophecy about them saving the country when the constitution 'hangs by a thread'. That frightens me more about Romney than him being a bankster.

Anonymous stg58 October 04, 2012 8:38 AM  

Speaking as one of the founders and senior leaders of Oath Keepers, the pragmatic approach is simple: who are the military less likely to obey if given an order such as "disarm", "round up", or "exterminate"? Clearly, Obama, since many of the military don't trust him anyway, and since he is a democrat.

They are much more likely to obey such an order from Romney, because Romney is "a good guy" who likes the troops, he is a republican, etc. When I was in Boot Camp in 1996, my senior drill instructor told us we were all republicans now, since republicans take care of the military.

Anonymous re allow anonymous comments October 04, 2012 8:41 AM  

#1 Team Obama is up to something clever. He could have done a lot better but he didn't, and we will see the reason for that soon I expect. There is a trick up their sleeve that will relate to this debate.

#2 Romney is smart enough to want to be looting the best and richest country he can, not a deranged 1960s radical trying to settle racial scores.

Anonymous re allow anonymous comments October 04, 2012 8:42 AM  

@ DB

They're both pimps. We're the whores.

Anonymous RedJack October 04, 2012 8:57 AM  

Obama looked like he wanted to deck Romney the whole time.

Anonymous DonReynolds October 04, 2012 9:04 AM  

RedJack..."Obama looked like he wanted to deck Romney the whole time."

It seems you missed when Romney and Obama departed. If you will revisit the tape, you will see Obama give Romney a backslap as Romney walked away. Yeah, I could not believe it either. I would characterize it as a cat-slap, with is somewhat better than a shove. Then Obama left the stage suddenly and Romney and his fam stayed on the stage to wave at the audience before leaving. Think about what this means.

During the brief departure, Romney is clearly trying to get away and Obama keeps awkwardly trying to get more handshakes, even as Romney turns to leave.


Anonymous Vitus_Bering October 04, 2012 9:09 AM  

Romney effectively said, "Give me the keys. Playtime's over. Time for an adult to be in charge."

Anonymous OK October 04, 2012 9:14 AM  

"One of Bodin's (Jean Bodin (1530–1596) keenest insights was his examination of the popular democracies of the past. Bodin points out that ‘if we rip up all the popular states that ever were’, and closely examine their real condition, then we shall find that the alleged rule of the people was always rule by a small oligarchy... Bodin pointed out that in reality rule is always exercised by an oligarchy, for whom ‘the people serves but for a mask’."

-Rothbard, Murray N. Austrian Perspective on the History of Economic Thought. Ludwig von Mises Institute.

Anonymous Josh October 04, 2012 9:15 AM  

I wonder....did Obama throw the debate as a way of backing out of the race without backing out?

Anonymous DonReynolds October 04, 2012 9:16 AM  

Yes, Vox.....Romney can speak with direct authority about what the elite in this country want. Apparently, they have give up on remote control of the White House. I suspect that Obama has not been compliant, like horses without bridles, so the elite have sent in their own to do the job right.....someone who would know without being told what they are expected to do.

The good news is....a Romney election may avert civil war in this country. Another four years of Leftist rule may push the less disciplined citizens to resistance. Lawful authority is necessary in any nation but when that authority ceases to serve the needs of the American people they have the right and the duty to alter or abolish it...according to the Declaration of Independence. The elite do not want to lose the whole store, they just want to make the shoplifter leave.

Anonymous Stilicho October 04, 2012 9:19 AM  

Romney effectively said, "Give me the keys. Playtime's over. Time for an adult to be in charge."

Problem is, the adult is named Nurse Ratched and it's time for your medicine.

Anonymous Stilicho October 04, 2012 9:23 AM  

Obama has not been compliant

Wake up and smell the derivatives, Don. President Goldman Sachs has been very compliant. But there's no need for a compliant puppet when you can put one of your own in that position. Much more efficient you see, and, if nothing else, Romney will make the money trains run on time.

Anonymous Good Will (aka The Mormon Hamster) October 04, 2012 9:23 AM  

I, for one, HATED the debate. (I listened to it rather than watched it, and therefore didn't see Obama shifting, looking down or looking away, nor Romney beaming his bemused smirk, relentlessly looking Obama straight in the eye.)

Romney's (largely vacuous) answers were obviously manufactured to channel Reagan. He even gave the obligatory anecdotes early on about this or that "real victim" to establish empathetic credibility and appeal to women on an emotional level. Why didn't he just call out Obama for what he is? A socialist! A Marxist! A fraud! A liar!

Because Romney knows that most Americans are a bunch of socialists. (And that 47% of Americans are fine with Marxism, fraud and lying!) Proving to them that they are dupes isn't going to win him points with the side that already HATES Romney. I got to give Romney credit for not stepping in that cow pie.

Okay, so (Mormon bishop, stake president) Romney is a "good" guy. He's not going to crush his opponent with invective or derisive rhetoric. He's just going to demolish him with facts...and by being a more effective leader.

I am convinced that Romney will do the "Mormon" thing: be a damn good administrator, splitting the philosophical divide between "conservatives" (who want to return to "Amish" America) and liberals (who want to replace God with government and fund "utopia").

Romney's been there. The Mormons tried "socialism" in the 1850's and it didn't work. They tried "polygamy" (the original "alternative lifestyle") and, for the greater body of believers, it didn't work. He also knows that people DO need an economic "safety net" -- like the Church provides. Romney knows that faith in God, capitalism and strong families are the foundation of America. He will push in that direction. (If pushing cats is possible.)

If Romney can't improve this country, no one can.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein October 04, 2012 9:26 AM  

Well, leave it to me to be the contrarian .......

I only caught the last 30 minutes or so... but Obama appeared much more comfortable. Rommey was binking so much that I thought maybe he was signaling us Ronulans his "true intentions" in Morse code. Off course, neither would give direct answers to direct questions....but Obama seemed smoother. ( Maybe I had set my expectations to low, knowing he wouldn't have the teleprompter...) Romney seemed both unctious and uncomfortable, simultaneously. Not good.

Although it could never happen ...I would have loved for Romney to have responded to Obama's "[wealthy] people like us"comment, with a, "Barrack, sure you've done well....but wealthy like MOI? Nigga, please!"

Anonymous Open Minded October 04, 2012 9:29 AM  

"How can anyone imagine Mitt Romney has any intention of fixing the very problems that he helped foster and from which he profited so massively?"

True.

But maybe with Romney-Hitler, we'll have the Main Stream Media attacking the government, instead of being lackeys and essentially-state run media.

Anonymous Feh October 04, 2012 9:29 AM  

Romney effectively said, "Give me the keys. Playtime's over. Time for an adult to be in charge."

Problem is, the adult is named Nurse Ratched and it's time for your medicine.


The bitterness of the medicine corresponds to the duration and intensity of the previous playtime... which was excessive.

Anonymous Josh October 04, 2012 9:31 AM  

Romney knows that faith in God, capitalism and strong families are the foundation of America. He will push in that direction. (If pushing cats is possible.)If Romney can't improve this country, no one can.

Help us Willard Romney! You're our only hope!

Seriously, though, how is Romney going to restore capitalism and strong families?

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein October 04, 2012 9:33 AM  

blinking

too

Apparently Sam Adams [Octoberfest], with whom I watched the debate last night, has influenced my mad spelling skillz this am.

Blogger Nate October 04, 2012 9:34 AM  

"Romney's been there. The Mormons tried "socialism" in the 1850's and it didn't work. They tried "polygamy" (the original "alternative lifestyle") and, for the greater body of believers, it didn't work"

Really? Polygamy appeared to work just fine until they decided they wanted to be a state. Then they changed their whole religion for political gain.

Tells you everything you need to know about the pieces of garbage.

Anonymous paradox October 04, 2012 9:34 AM  

Stilicho

Wake up and smell the derivatives, Don. President Goldman Sachs has been very compliant.


Please... the first Jewish president has kicked out the Judaics in his admin and has been flippant with Netanyahu. Israel gets what Israel wants, and Israel doesn't want the Don anymore.

Blogger Good Will October 04, 2012 9:36 AM  

Jeigh Di October 04, 2012 8:31 AM
There's something in Mormon prophecy about them saving the country when the constitution 'hangs by a thread'. That frightens me more about Romney than him being a bankster.


You don't want the Constitution saved?

Anonymous Josh October 04, 2012 9:38 AM  

Apparently Sam Adams [Octoberfest], with whom I watched the debate last night, has influenced my mad spelling skillz this am.

Sam Adams is the most Republican of beer.

Blogger Nate October 04, 2012 9:40 AM  

Actually Shiner Bock is the rightest of right wing beers.

Anonymous Josh October 04, 2012 9:43 AM  

You know that "Republican" and "rightest of right wing" are not synonymous

Anonymous paradox October 04, 2012 9:46 AM  

TontoBubbaGoldstein

Apparently Sam Adams [Octoberfest], with whom I watched the debate last night, has influenced my mad spelling skillz this am.


Sam Adams Octoberfest... good stuff. Their Pumpkin Ale is good and Hazel Brown is awesome. Reminds me, I need to stock up before the Braves Wild Card game tomorrow.

Blogger Nate October 04, 2012 9:57 AM  

I loathe sam adams... but octoberfest is actually pretty good.

Blogger Good Will October 04, 2012 10:02 AM  

Seriously, though, how is Romney going to restore capitalism and strong families?

By setting the example, for one. By championing legislation and policies that foster them, for another.

Does that mean no "same-sex marriage"? Romney is not adverse to two men (or two women, or maybe even three or four!) living together with a contract of mutual support (civil unions). But
"man-woman" marriage is fundamental
to the Mormon faith (which Romney says he won't denounce or deny). (Please disregard that false "Mormon", Hairy Reed. What a scum bag!)

Mormons believe, as another tenant of their faith, that
people should be allowed to worship
how, where, or what they may. Romney's creed is that all religious sects should be allowed to thrive in America -- so long as they do not deny that right to others.

This bodes well for Christians, Jews, and even Muslims.

Anonymous RINO October 04, 2012 10:05 AM  

There are 0 reasons to hope for Obama over Romney. At best you can say he is lazy, but if you haven't noticed the train continues to move along whether Obama is playing golf or not.

Even if you believe Romney has nothing to offer at all a visible defeat for the party of decadence has some satisfaction. And the response from the media and academia to the first black president being voted out after one term will be priceless.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein October 04, 2012 10:05 AM  

Nate,
Agreed. IMO Sam Adams is nasty, SA light is worse....but most of there "specialty brews" are damn good. Summer Ale, Octoberfest, and Winter lager are all really good. The ladies like the Chocolate beer.

Blogger IM2L844 October 04, 2012 10:11 AM  

The media, last night and this morning, responded exactly as I expected. While they are begrudgingly giving Romney the obligatory nod for winning the debate, they keep re-playing Obama's perceived best moment (Romney is keeping his plan a secret) over and over. It will be interesting to see how much mileage they try to get from the continued beatings of this dead horse.

Blogger Good Will October 04, 2012 10:11 AM  

Nate October 04, 2012 9:34 AM
"Romney's been there. The Mormons tried "socialism" in the 1850's and it didn't work. They tried "polygamy" (the original "alternative lifestyle") and, for the greater body of believers, it didn't work"

Really? Polygamy appeared to work just fine until they decided they wanted to be a state. Then they changed their whole religion for political gain.


Polygamy may have worked well enough for the married men of Mormondom. But the women were lonely, over-worked and largely at odds with "sharing" their man. The majority of Mormons were men, anyway (gee, I wonder why!) and so there was always a shortage of women to go around. The missionaries had to recruit them over seas and bring them back to "Zion" (Utah). Consequently, there's a lot of damn pretty ladies in Mormonanity!

Mitt personifies what a lot of Mormons (and Americans) still aspire to. "Mutt" Obama, not so much.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein October 04, 2012 10:14 AM  

THEIR....... dammit!

( At least I haven't had a "then/ than" faux pas.)

Maybe, I'll go ahead & finish off the Sam Adams Octoberfest.. Might see a Skunk Ape later in the day...yuo never know!

Anonymous E. PERLINE October 04, 2012 10:15 AM  

When I was young I thought it was cool to be pedantic to as many persons as possible. As I matured, my level of response adjusted automatically to the level of intelligence of whoever I met.

I judge Barak Obama to be a little above average. He uses this bit of intelligence for storing street smarts, so that he can scam as many people as is necessary.

I observed from the debate that Mitt Romney is different altogether. His level of intelligence is so high, it puts lesser minds out of their comfort zones.

Given this choice, wouldn't you rather have a CEO who has a history of turning a profit, rather than losing on very transaction?

Blogger Positive Dennis October 04, 2012 10:18 AM  

I believe that Mormonism attracted more women than men and that was one reason for polygamy.

Blogger Nate October 04, 2012 10:23 AM  

"Given this choice, wouldn't you rather have a CEO who has a history of turning a profit, rather than losing on very transaction? "

No.

Given that the policy preferences are the exact same... I would prefer to have the candidate that has failed to implement them over and over again.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 04, 2012 10:23 AM  

On a side note, it now turns out that there is definitive photographic evidence that Bigfoot exists:

http://cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz/cache/r620-f366f40a01a5917f4c85c3c187874318.jpg

Blogger Nate October 04, 2012 10:24 AM  

"Polygamy may have worked well enough for the married men of Mormondom. But the women were lonely, over-worked and largely at odds with "sharing" their man. The majority of Mormons were men, anyway (gee, I wonder why!) and so there was always a shortage of women to go around. The missionaries had to recruit them over seas and bring them back to "Zion" (Utah). Consequently, there's a lot of damn pretty ladies in Mormonanity!"

*** WOOOSH ***

The point flies by unscathed.

Son... the mormons didn't abandon polygamy because they didn't like it. They abandoned it because they wanted to become a state.

Anonymous Josh October 04, 2012 10:27 AM  

Given this choice, wouldn't you rather have a CEO who has a history of turning a profit, rather than losing on very transaction? 

The feral government is not a business, nor should it be run like one.

Blogger Nate October 04, 2012 10:36 AM  

"On a side note, it now turns out that there is definitive photographic evidence that Bigfoot exists:"


RACIS!!!!

Anonymous DonReynolds October 04, 2012 10:38 AM  

"Romney's been there. The Mormons tried "socialism" in the 1850's and it didn't work. They tried "polygamy" (the original "alternative lifestyle") and, for the greater body of believers, it didn't work"

Nate...."Really? Polygamy appeared to work just fine until they decided they wanted to be a state. Then they changed their whole religion for political gain."

You are both misinformed. Polygamy may have been acceptable to a third of the Mormon women at a time, but they have been under steady pressure to abandon the practice from the earliest times. Remember, Federal conflicts with the Mormons have been real, resulting in repeated invasions of Utah Territory by the US Army. Yes, the Utah War was pretty dramatic, even if it did not result in mega-death. Congress passed the Anti-Polygamy law in 1862. Utah did not become a state until 1896.

Anonymous Cat McClusky October 04, 2012 10:38 AM  

What amazed me was the reaction of the mainstream media pundits. They actually acknowledged that Obama got his head handed him by Romney.
For a bunch of leftist shills who have championed their savior since he ran he hit the national stage, their reaction to this debate is disturbingly uncharacteristic.

Are they just trying to give the impression of impartiality before going back to their fawning praise in the remaining debates?

I just don't take ANYTHING the MSM says at face value.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 04, 2012 10:41 AM  

"The good news is....a Romney election may avert civil war in this country."

Nah, just postpone it. At this point? Look at the numbers. Some form of partition or secession is pretty much inevitable now, the only question is whether it can be done peacefully... and when have Americans EVER done anything peacefully when there was a stupider option available?

The real tragedy is the wasted opportunity, which won't come again in human history: North America is a natural geographical fortress, pretty much un-stormable from without. So of course they stormed it from within, and the blind idiots at the steering wheel let them do it.

George W. Bush had better invest in cryogenic severed-head-preserving technology: even another fifty or a hundred years outside of Hell will be preferable for him, considering the terrifying punishment that awaits him for all eternity.


Blogger Joshua_D October 04, 2012 10:42 AM  

Josh October 04, 2012 10:27 AM

Given this choice, wouldn't you rather have a CEO who has a history of turning a profit, rather than losing on very transaction?

The feral government is not a business, nor should it be run like one.


Exactly.

Anonymous patrick kelly October 04, 2012 10:45 AM  

"You don't want the Constitution saved?"

Apparently we have to burn it to save it./s

Blogger Good Will October 04, 2012 10:46 AM  

Positive Dennis October 04, 2012 10:18 AM
I believe that Mormonism attracted more women than men and that was one reason for polygamy.


That would be incorrect. The data show more men joined the LDS Church than women during the period of polygamy. (And not because they could have more wives!)

Mormonism appeals to men...with its grandiose vision of godhood and exaltation, grounded (as it is) in Biblical scripture and a modern expression of apostolic power. It is the ultimate "success formula" for alpha males.

Women are attracted to Mormonism, primarily, because they are attracted to alpha males...which Mormonism tends to create (even if artificially).

Anonymous patrick kelly October 04, 2012 10:47 AM  

"Actually Shiner Bock is the rightest of right wing beers."

And the real "National Beer of Texas", sorry LoneStar, not even close.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 04, 2012 10:53 AM  

Didn't watch the debate, don't care who allegedly "won" it: Republicans always lose all these debates far in advance, simply by agreeing to have them moderated by evil liberals. It's already over once the liberal asks the questions. It doesn't matter what the answers are.

Wake me when there's a debate moderated by Steve Sailer, Kevin MacDonald, Vox, Lawrence Auster, Ace of Spades, and Ann Althouse. Then I'll start paying attention.

Blogger Nate October 04, 2012 10:54 AM  

"Women are attracted to Mormonism, primarily, because they are attracted to alpha males...which Mormonism tends to create (even if artificially)."

mormon alpha males.

I don't laugh out loud literally very often.

Thanks for that.

Anonymous Josh October 04, 2012 10:57 AM  

Mormonism appeals to men...with its grandiose vision of godhood and exaltation, grounded (as it is) in Biblical scripture and a modern expression of apostolic power. It is the ultimate "success formula" for alpha males.

Sounds like scientology

Blogger Good Will October 04, 2012 11:02 AM  

Nate: *** WOOOSH ***

The point flies by unscathed.

Son... the mormons didn't abandon polygamy because they didn't like it. They abandoned it because they wanted to become a state.


Whether or not women "liked it" was not my point.

Mormons never renounced the doctrine of polygamy, only its practice. And, even then, Mormons still practice polygamy today. Mormon men are still "sealed" to more than one wife in Mormon temples -- under certain circumstances -- to be married to them "for time and all eternity" in the next life.

The Church changed its practice because the U.S. government confiscated ALL THE LDS CHURCH'S PROPERTY and put many of its leaders and members IN PRISON! (It's kind of hard to continuing practicing this tenet of the LDS faith under those circumstances!)

But don't worry, Nate. Full-blown "Mormon" polygamy will re-emerge (with God's blessing) when the earth is emptied of her inhabitants and the number of men alive will be able to be counted, metaphorically, on the hand of a child.

Blogger Joshua_D October 04, 2012 11:04 AM  

patrick kelly October 04, 2012 10:45 AM

"You don't want the Constitution saved?"

Apparently we have to burn it to save it./s


I think we would all be well served if we stopped talking about the US Constitution as if we are talking about the same document that was ratified in 1791. By the 12th, the federal government and state governments were starting to alter the US Constitution, and the change has continued. The amendments to the "current" US Constitution fundamentally changed the structure of, and the selection of, the national government that was set out in the original US Constitution.

So, when you ask if I want the Constitution saved, Good Will, my response is, "Which one?"

Anonymous zen0 October 04, 2012 11:05 AM  

Canadian tv had a running poll on who was winning the debate. 77% said Obama.

Canadians are hopeless dweebs.

Blogger Joshua_D October 04, 2012 11:06 AM  

By the 12th amendment.

Blogger Good Will October 04, 2012 11:08 AM  

Josh October 04, 2012 10:57 AM
Mormonism appeals to men...with its grandiose vision of godhood and exaltation, grounded (as it is) in Biblical scripture and a modern expression of apostolic power. It is the ultimate "success formula" for alpha males.

Sounds like scientology


Yes, there shall be many false Christs and false prophets.

Anonymous Vitus_Bering October 04, 2012 11:09 AM  

"...considering the terrifying punishment that awaits him for all eternity."

Wow. I would need this explained, since one's eternal destiny is not determined by one's works.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 04, 2012 11:11 AM  

Shiner Bock is pretty good in a pinch, but in reality there is only one beer on planet earth: Bitburger Pils, on draft, in a chilled pewter mug.

Everything else is just The Matrix.

Anonymous paradox October 04, 2012 11:16 AM  

Nate

mormon alpha males.

I don't laugh out loud literally very often.

Thanks for that.


Hey now, they are gods or will be gods of their own planet, when the corporeal alien God bestows magical alien powers on their afterlife form.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 04, 2012 11:17 AM  

"I would need this explained, since one's eternal destiny is not determined by one's works."

a) see the Sermon on the Mount. Also see Lazarus v. Dives.

b) all that aside, it's only rhetorical, not theological. In real life, not blog-spouting, I wouldn't presume to judge the destiny of George W. Bush, and wouldn't want to; however, if God gave me the car-keys for five minutes and winkingly turned His back... well let's just say, a la Dylan, "Next time you see Me comin', you better run."

Blogger Good Will October 04, 2012 11:20 AM  

Joshua_D: So, when you ask if I want the Constitution saved, Good Will, my response is, "Which one?"

Mormons regard the constitution that was put in place in 1791 (and in force as late as 1833) to be
inspired of God
, for His purposes.

Anonymous III October 04, 2012 11:22 AM  

Whether O'Romney wins or not, many people will still take the mark.

The New World Order is NOT taking a break.

After 8 years of Bush and 4 years of Obama... anything but Obama.

The good news, is that AmeriKans have been thoroughly acclimatized to the chains they forged for them. Despite the fact that O'Romney is going to do nothing to release those chains. AmeriKans will just exhale a sigh of relief.

Besides, a false flag in the Persian Gulf will be more believable under a repukocrat president. Americans will chant USA USA USA and wave their flags as bombs drop on Iran.

Blogger Good Will October 04, 2012 11:24 AM  

Vitus_Bering October 04, 2012 11:09 AM
"...considering the terrifying punishment that awaits him for all eternity."

Wow. I would need this explained, since one's eternal destiny is not determined by one's works.


Your statement, VB (unless I missed the sarcasm) is about as foolish as believing that one's temporal destiny is not "determined by one's works".

Anonymous rycamor October 04, 2012 11:25 AM  

Only at VP would we start with the Presidential debates and end up on the relative merits of beer and polygamy. Mississippi Mud should not be ignored, BTW. A nice dark beer delivered in a mostly opaque bottle.

As for polygamy, I suppose when the time comes to repopulate the earth, those of us with the better genetic material will need to step up to the plate. A sacrifice, all for the good of the whole, of course...

Anonymous Stilicho October 04, 2012 11:26 AM  

Yes, there shall be many false Christs and false prophets.

Unintentional irony is quite popular in LDS circles

Anonymous Noah B. October 04, 2012 11:27 AM  

"What amazed me was the reaction of the mainstream media pundits. They actually acknowledged that Obama got his head handed him by Romney.
For a bunch of leftist shills who have championed their savior since he ran he hit the national stage, their reaction to this debate is disturbingly uncharacteristic."

Don't fool yourself - the leftist media has been pushing Romney as the "Republican frontrunner" since probably late 2009.

Yes, Romney is one slick, fast talking son of a bitch. Of all the policy measures he discussed last night, the only one that would have a chance of actually improving the US economy is building the pipeline to Canada that Obama has blocked. I'm less than enthusiastic about the idea of reorganizing the tax code. It seems like a great opportunity for government to screw us even more.

Blogger Good Will October 04, 2012 11:27 AM  

pardox: Hey now, they are gods or will be gods of their own planet, when the corporeal alien God bestows magical alien powers on their afterlife form.

Where do you mockers get that "their own planet" idea?

Just one planet?

As The Hulk would say: "Puny god!"

Anonymous Neoantineocon October 04, 2012 11:33 AM  

isteve.blogspot.com/2012/10/projecting-obamas-blankness-onto-romney.html

Steve Sailer:

"In recent months, we've been inundated with strident media assertions that Mitt Romney is a blank screen, an empty suit, a cipher, a nullity. Perhaps they are right, although Romney's long track record suggests that people who know him frequently turn to him when they have difficult problems requiring leadership and management chops to solve (something that does not seem to be true of Obama).

But, we shouldn't overlook the sizable element of projection in the pro-Obama press's attacks on Romney, which might help explain their rabid reaction to Clint Eastwood's improvisation with an empty chair sitting in for Obama. Clint's old and (judging by his last several movies) lazy, but he's still a cunning old bastard with enough on the ball to intuit one key insight into Obama: there's not a lot there."

Anonymous TheExpat October 04, 2012 11:37 AM  

First rule of holes, Good Will. First rule of holes.

Anonymous Toby Temple October 04, 2012 11:38 AM  

Didn't anyone notice that Romney was always teary eyed. Like he is in pain everytime he speaks.

Anonymous Josh October 04, 2012 11:45 AM  

Yes, there shall be many false Christs and false prophets.

I think you just indicted yourself.

Anonymous patrick kelly October 04, 2012 11:48 AM  

"there is only one beer on planet earth: Bitburger Pils, on draft, in a chilled pewter mug."

I think Koenig Pils is slightly better, and I enjoy both straight from a chilled pint can. But I would gladly help you drink Bitburger from chilled mugs if I had to.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 04, 2012 11:53 AM  

Good grief, against my better judgment, I just started watching this thing.

OBAMA: Let's talk about taxes, because I think it's... instructive.

No it isn't.

Way back in the Holocene, when that f#cking retard Herman Cain was running with his retarded 9-9-9 plan, I pointed out at once that he was talking about revenue policy when there is no problem at all with revenue; Americans have survived an over-reaching tax regime for quite a long time, this is a rich and robust country, and even if the tax regime is unjust, Americans can survive it still. It takes a lot of money to run a country this size, but "a lot of money" is exactly what our existing revenue regime produces (or 'extracts' is perhaps more accurate). The issue is not revenue and it never was; it's spending. So to my mind Cain had lost any and all debates before he had even begun.

So, no, Mr. President, it is NOT instructive. There is plenty of money, plenty, taken in by any tax regime you can imagine; and yet, you consistently, willfully, pathologically manage to spend far, far, far more than what is taken in, under any imaginable regime. Until you rectify this issue, you can not be addressed with anything like serious intellectual respect. Full stop.

Anonymous Noah B. October 04, 2012 11:57 AM  

Right on scoobius. And insisting that we have to increase revenue in order to decrease wasteful spending is just idiotic.

Anonymous Toby Temple October 04, 2012 12:07 PM  

Right on scoobius. And insisting that we have to increase revenue in order to decrease wasteful spending is just idiotic.

I think he was never talking about that in the first place. He was more about getting more revenue for more wasteful spending.

Anonymous Porky? October 04, 2012 12:46 PM  

Obama has never been more than a tool

Well said, Vox. Well said.

Blogger Markku October 04, 2012 12:54 PM  

The last time we had a Mormon endorse Romney here, ended in these words:

----

You are as aware as I am, Vox, that you care nothing for truth: so you will now, as in the old days, walk under the falling hammer. It may only strike you after death. Or not. Or both. Or lots of times. But know and understand this, there will be no escape through a side-door. (The matter is no longer mine, in case you were wondering.) You could repent, but doing that is very, very, very tricksy: the Lord will not be mocked, Vox and assorted animals. I’ve called Him to judge and He will now do so as it pleases Him: and He is greatly to be feared.
Oh. You may labour under some delusion that my being a foul-mouthed little bastard makes me of no account in this particular sphere. Or that I’ll be creamed myself (your concern is oh-so-very kind... sniff). Unlike yourself, I can exit with those sorts of things. Again, it’s a bit technical, but take my word for it: I was walking that path for many years before I encountered your pale attempt at it.

In the (extended) words of Smith: I will enjoy watching you (and Nate) die (at the Hands of the Living God).
Of course, He may decide that you were in the right all along... but I kind of doubt that.

:-)

Blogger Markku October 04, 2012 1:02 PM  

And also this quote:

---

Much like the people here quite willingly became mockers: if only I did not belong to the Lord... but I do. And none of you are forgiven: I have chosen not to do so.

---

As I said back then, scratch a Mormon, and this is what you will find.

Blogger Markku October 04, 2012 1:04 PM  

Personally I'm starting to be of the opinion that you should actually vote for Obama, as he creeps me out helluva lot less than Romney. I'm not absolutely sure about this, though.

Blogger Joshua_D October 04, 2012 1:05 PM  

CB is a Mormon? I missed that. It's not surprising, but I missed it.

Blogger Markku October 04, 2012 1:07 PM  

Remember, the arbitration thingie happened when (s)he was so heartily defending Romney. Then he says "In the (extended) words of Smith".

You do the math.

Anonymous patrick kelly October 04, 2012 1:08 PM  

Well it's settled then, I'm voting for Romney cuz' I'm tired of voting for the *lesser* evil.

Blogger Joshua_D October 04, 2012 1:08 PM  

I was told there would be no math.

Blogger Markku October 04, 2012 1:14 PM  

This is exactly my experience with Jehovah's Witnesses. They are smiley glad-hands as long as they are able to keep it up. Some longer, some not so long. And as long as they think they might be able to convert you.

But there is lots of crazy bubbling underneath...

Anonymous Orion October 04, 2012 1:19 PM  

A point that seems to be missed about Mitt and prospering: there is profit even in disaster for those who are prepared for it. Don't forget this administration's catch phrase: never let a disaster go to waste. Yes, the train rolls on toward the cliff while Obama plays golf. Mitt has made a career of profiting from failure and will do so more efficiently than Obama. That means less wiggle room for us peons to capitalize on things so we can secure our families from the coming crash. Sound selfish? I try to warn others, but for the most part it is to no avail.

Blogger Joshua_D October 04, 2012 1:32 PM  

Markku October 04, 2012 1:14 PM

But there is lots of crazy bubbling underneath...


So, they're kinda like women then. Noted.

Blogger Markku October 04, 2012 1:46 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein October 04, 2012 1:56 PM  

Scoobius,
Re : Bitburger Pils

*Ed McMahon voice...*
" YESSSSSSSS. Yessir. YOU are CORRECT, sir! YESSSSSSSSS!!"

....or maybe that was Marv Albert..
.


Bitte ein Bit!

Anonymous Cheddarman October 04, 2012 2:21 PM  

I would like to see Jesse Jackson train Obama for the next two debates, so that Obama can answer all of his questions in rhyme.

This would certainly bring back the magic.

Obama could start out by issuing a press release, channeling Muhammad Ali "It is gonna be a thrilla, a chilla and a killa when I verbally and lyrically thrash that Romney Go'-rilla."

Anonymous can't believe I just wrote this October 04, 2012 2:31 PM  

I would rather get raped by a kingpin then one of his smarmy, faggoty lackeys. Gross I know, but it is what it is. Nothing lower than a bottom bit$ch for the lowest stooge in a gang.

Anonymous DT October 04, 2012 2:56 PM  

Vasoline. We all need lots and lots of Vasoline.

Anonymous Jimmy October 04, 2012 3:19 PM  

If you don't think Romney will fix the problems, then he's Mr. One Term 2.

The alternative is we keep Obama for another 4 years. Things will get worse with Obama since the electorate decided the leadership is going in the right direction. We become Japan and Europe for decades.

Or we go with Romney and see if he does a 180. If not, we replace him with another. Maybe Hilary? Goodness, I don't even want to go there.

Anonymous JJJJ October 04, 2012 3:33 PM  

If you LOVE LOVE LOVE the Mainstream Media...LOVE Chris Matthew's tingly drooling love for the State...love how the State-Media covers up for Barry...

Then by all means, keep bashing Romney. You'll get 4 more years of State-media misinformation.

Me, I rather miss the days when the media said "Bush = Hitler."

Hoping it's "Romney = Hitler" for a change of pace.

So sad to watch Anti-neoconnery become a suicide pact.

Anonymous Josh October 04, 2012 3:36 PM  

I'm confused. Are you saying that we should support Romney because the media hate him?

Anonymous WaterBoy October 04, 2012 3:55 PM  

I'd rather hear "Paul = Hitler", but you Republicans made damn sure THAT wouldn't happen....

Blogger JohnG October 04, 2012 5:12 PM  

I don't think we're going to get involved in Syria. The Russians have told us "no". Those little exchanges between Turkey and Syria might turn into something though.

Hard not to be happy about Romney spanking the 0. Scumbag entitled POS.

Anonymous Noah B. October 04, 2012 5:52 PM  

"Canadian tv had a running poll on who was winning the debate. 77% said Obama."

I can explain what happened there.
"Do you believe President Obama won the US presidential debate?"
"Eh?"
Another 'yes' for Obama...

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 04, 2012 7:47 PM  

Again, I'm not terribly invested in the perception of who "won" this charade, but I do note this odd, troubling little data point...

I got only about 30 mins into the thing before I gave up in disgust, but I noticed that Obama at least twice, and maybe three times, continued his blathering with a memorized, rote, talking-points accusation against Romney, something about a $5 trillion additional deficit and more military spending, who knows what actually. But the point is, Romney in his own blathering explicitly denied that this was his policy at least twice, and pointed out what his goal actually, or ostensibly, was.

And in the face of this overt denial, Obama went on to simply repeat his accusations at least twice, more or less verbatim, without offering any further facts or analysis that would support his sticking to a point Romney had denied to his face. Had he thought Romney was lying and offered counterfacts to support that position, it would be a legitimate debate point and indeed a winner. But he didn't, he simply repeated the accusation without supporting it, as if he hadn't heard his interlocutor at all.

Now I don't think Obama is a super-genius, but I also don't think he's a complete moron either. Nevertheless it is, um, puzzling to say the least, to see the actual President of the USA, in a debate intended to promote the public good, doing something so, um, puzzling...

Anonymous The other skeptic October 04, 2012 10:46 PM  

It seems possible that the media will be told to turn on Obama because of his dismal showing in the mass debate.

I think it is a pity, because since Obama seems less competent than Romney, he can not screw things up as badly as Romney can.

Anonymous YIH October 05, 2012 3:39 AM  

Lawrence Auster thinks altitude was a factor. But he's not an NFL fan. Sports teams (and sports media) like to play up 'the altitude factor' but to me weather is much more important. Look at when the Vikes face either Green Bay or Chicago late in the season. Don't tell me weather is not a factor.
Denver in December or January sucks, but so do a lot of NFL cities.
Do you think altitude made a difference to Tebow? He'll be as good (or not) as the team around him. If what I've seen so far is any indication Tebow could well wind up regretting the move to NYC (Auster's current home).

Blogger James Dixon October 05, 2012 8:49 AM  

> If what I've seen so far is any indication Tebow could well wind up regretting the move to NYC (Auster's current home).

Regretting in what way? That he won't be the starting quarterback. I doubt he ever expected to be. That the team won't win even he gets the starting job? I doubt he expected that either.

Seriously, as far as I can tell Tebow has always been first and foremost a team player. I suspect he agreed to go to New York because the Jets offered Denver the best deal for him, and he wanted to help the team as much as possible, even if they were trading him.

Blogger Good Will October 05, 2012 9:50 AM  

Markku,

What the hell was all that dreck that you attributed to "a Mormon"? Mormons don't talk (or even think!) like that!

Blogger Markku October 05, 2012 10:06 AM  

Markku,

What the hell was all that dreck that you attributed to "a Mormon"? Mormons don't talk (or even think!) like that!


CoronaRabbit started out pretty much as normal as you'd expect. (S)he unraveled to that point only after some time, and some prodding. I wasn't a participant in the discussion except for the very end, I was merely a fascinated observer.

Blogger Markku October 05, 2012 10:13 AM  

You can see the final ramblings in their entirety here

Anonymous Good Will (aka The Mormon Hamster) October 05, 2012 10:23 AM  

Markku October 04, 2012 1:14 PM
This is exactly my experience with Jehovah's Witnesses. They are smiley glad-hands as long as they are able to keep it up. Some longer, some not so long. And as long as they think they might be able to convert you.

But there is lots of crazy bubbling underneath...


It's OT here, but -- while my experience and impressions of JWs have been similar to yours -- I'm very sorry you feel the same way about Mormons. They are very different.

I happen to like Jehovah's Witnesses (generally) and appreciate and respect their willingness to go door-to-door to share and defend their faith. (I do hate the fact that they invariably ostracize you if you don't convert, however.) I have found JWs to be good people, though.

I vigorously disagree with their faith, however, principally because they reject the divinity of Jesus Christ, relegating Him to lesser "god" status (kind of what people think Mormons envision themselves becoming someday). JWs reject that Christ is the Creator, the Jehovah of the OT, who appeared to Moses on Mt. Sinai, etc. To JWs, Jesus is just God's perfect son, a holy sacrifice. They miss the mark. (Well, many marks, actually.) Mormons understand that Jesus didn't just obey the law. He is the Law-giver!

Still, I respect JWs virtue and devotion -- even if I find their religion to be misguided and, inherently, dishonest. (I imagine you feel the same way about Mormons, unfortunately.)

Mormons generally don't befriend people just to convert them. We're surrounded by non-Mormons -- and we have (and keep) many non-Mormon friends. (My best friend is non-Mormon -- and vehemently so!) Still, we both love Jesus (so we share that in common).

I believe Romney loves the Lord Jesus Christ. Romney's not a perfect man (or candidate). And I'm not a Romney "supporter". I support correct principles. (I'm not convinced Romney embraces enough of them to "save" this country.) However, I'm not sure ANYONE can save this country. Romney is MUCH BETTER than Obama. But, as Vox has pointed out, being right about a lot of things doesn't matter a hill of beans if you're wrong (or mute) about the ESSENTIAL things: God, guns, debt and demographics.

Unfortunately, Jesus isn't running for POTUS this year.

Blogger Markku October 05, 2012 10:28 AM  

Remember, it wasn't like we set out to find Mormon crazies to showcase around. This was just someone who started defending Romney in a thread. And came across so much like a Mormon, that Nate voiced his suspicion quite early on, that (s)he has been assigned this forum by LDS to advertise Romney.

And a couple of days later we're in total Bizarro World. You can't deny it's going to leave an impression. Had Nate and pals not managed to get under his or her skin, we would never have heard what (s)he REALLY thought.

Anonymous E. PERLINE October 05, 2012 11:09 AM  

As a nation we're in a deep hole. I was wondering what a new president would do to get us out of that deep hole.

I suppose work on the Canadian-US pipeline should begin immediately. The government should then allow our tied-up oil production to proceed on a competitive basis. This would give a shot in the arm to the truck- transportion industries. Such a tactic alone would help stabilize the dollar.

Since wind and solar power have proven to be costly Tinkertoys (and controlled fusion a dream of the future) the coal mines should be encouraged to operate on a competitive basis.

This new energy policy alone might begin on the first month. It would increase employment and add to our sense of national optimism. If environmentalists object, we should allow environmentalists to run the zoos.

Blogger Good Will October 05, 2012 12:01 PM  

Building 50 to 100 new nuclear power plants (with the newest auto-safe shutdown designs) of the non-plutonium-breeder reactor type would benefit us greatly...as long as they are privately run.

Abandoning wind and solar would help. (These were NEVER economically viable.) I am AMAZED that "solar-heated water" systems are now being marketed (again) for homes! Egad! With natural gas prices at historic lows, the payback on solar-heated water must be something like 100 years!

Romney's plan to cut government down to size by natural attrition is good. He could accelerate the process by offering one-time "golden handshakes" to those who won't move or die off in a timely fashion -- then close the agencies entirely (if he can get Congress to go along with it).

I tend to think it's hopeless. Romney is right. 47% of the people (mostly "baby boomers" and their drug-dealing progeny) are socialist / Marxists. We're not going to pry the country (or our money) back out of their hands but by blood.

Collecting Social Security needs to be delayed to 70 or 75 years old. The program needs to be privatized. Medicare/medicaid needs to be privatized or returned to the states.

Otherwise, it's all for nought.

Anonymous Joe Winpisinger October 07, 2012 12:54 PM  

What is the solution then? Evangelicals chose cronies Santourum and Gingrich over Ron Paul... He would have done something about the raping...

Anonymous E. PERLINE October 08, 2012 8:48 PM  

Ihave to shake my head at the latest news. Obama's appointees have congratulated Chavez on his victory at the polls. We must assume that the approval comes from Obama. For some people, the bonds of socialism are hard to break.

Another piece of news is that a private firm is carrying on the duties of NASA at one tenth the cost!

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