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Tuesday, October 23, 2012

Watch what they do

And not what they tell you to do.  It's intriguing to see that most health-care workers refuse to get the vaccinations they so religiously administer to everyone else.
In August, B.C. became the first jurisdiction in Canada to legislate mandatory flu shots for doctors, nurses and any other healthcare worker who may come into contact with patients. In previous years, the rate of inoculation for the province’s health-care workers had been below 50%, one of the lowest in Canada....

In a November op-ed, University of Toronto bioethics researcher Ross Upshur maintained that eschewing a flu shot fundamentally violates the credo of “do no harm.” If healthcare workers “are vectors of disease for hospitalized patients, they are putting patients at risk for increased harm,” he said.

It is “disheartening” to see how few Canadian professionals are getting the flu shot, even if they work with children and the elderly, said Maher El-Masri, a nursing professor at the University of Windsor. “I think we have a responsibility to protect our patients.”
It would be fascinating, and I suspect extremely informative, to know if health-care workers are similarly disinclined to vaccinate their own children according the current recommended vaccine schedule.

Labels:

108 Comments:

Blogger Bob Wallace October 23, 2012 9:38 AM  

I used to work in health care and was required to get the MMR vaccine. I told them I'd had all those diseases as a child but that wasn't good enough. Jokingly I told them my mother still had my baby book documenting this but that wasn't good enough. So I got the shot and felt horrible for 24 hours. I couldn't move off the couch. It turns out it's not the vaccine but the fact they are grown on eggs so you're getting raw protein injected into your bloodstream and having a reaction to it. My mother used to work in an ER and many years ago got a hepatitis shot. She turned yellow, including the whites of her eyes, and was sick for three days.

Anonymous DonReynolds October 23, 2012 9:48 AM  

Notice also how many doctors and nurses smoke tobacco. The docs are more likely to smoke a pipe and the nurses are standing outside the hospital puffing on a fag.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan October 23, 2012 9:51 AM  

An analogy to this situation is the number of Congressmen with school aged kids who refuse to allow their kid within a mile of a public school in DC.

Anonymous Josh October 23, 2012 10:04 AM  

Or even the number of public school teachers who put their kids in private school.

Anonymous CunningDove October 23, 2012 10:18 AM  

This whole, "you are putting others at risk" argument just irritates me to no end. We are told to get vaccinations so that our bodies will build up antibodies that allow us to better fight off the disease. But if I don't get the vaccination that means that you who get the vaccination are ready to fight off the disease better than I am. How exactly does that make me a danger to you by not being as "prepared" to fight off the disease?

Anonymous castricv October 23, 2012 10:24 AM  

Cunning don't use logic with your science!!!

I have two babies under 3 and I have only allowed the doctors and my wife to give them the most basic (and legally required) shots for things like smallpox etc. FLu, and the 20 other garbage things they try to inject I've literally had to tell them to f@ck off. It's getting to the point where the drug companies lobby local governemnts and school boards to make kids go to fattened up doctors for any new concoction they came up with and barely tested.

If you ever work near a doctor's office, you will be amazed how many pharma reps go through there EVERY DAY. This is b.s. of the first order.

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 10:26 AM  

You gave your babies under 3 shots for SMALLPOX?! Which other vaccines do you consider "basic" for the under three set?

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 10:27 AM  

CunningDove that arguement is used when referring to those who cannot be vaccinated - too young, too sick, etc.

Anonymous Anonymous October 23, 2012 10:27 AM  

Notice the recriminations come from "researchers" and "professors"? Not too much noise from the front lines, as it were. Id wager these tar and feather types rationalize that since they dont interact with sick patients, they wont be "vectors of disease", and thus, they themselves can forgo the shots

John VI

Anonymous castricv October 23, 2012 10:31 AM  

To expand on the pharma rep thing, it's not even like once or twice a week peddling things. There are some days where 2 dozen reps come in yet they might only have 2 dozen patients a day sometimes...

Also, they are usually smoking hot babes from 25-40. They are most certainly not there to impart practical knowledge and reasonable drug protocals for patients. They are there to half eye - F$$ck the doctors into the newest drug being peddled at a ridiculous price and paid for half the time by government monies. It used to be the only profession you could find hotties in were admirable ones like nursing and actual school instructors. Now they are all wannabe lawyers, pharma reps, sex-tape celebrities, or in some make work middle management or HR role.

And people think Vox and the like are crazy for wondering why women are in the workforce.

Anonymous Josh October 23, 2012 10:33 AM  

Which other vaccines do you consider "basic" for the under three set?

Gardasil, duh

Anonymous WinstonWebb October 23, 2012 10:36 AM  

I'll bet these medical pros don't eschew the polio vaccine...

Hi Spacebunny!

=)

Anonymous Anonymous October 23, 2012 10:36 AM  

As spacebunny pointed out, some people can't be vaccinated. They are protected by "herd immunity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

People who can be vaccinated but choose not to be are free-riding on the vaccinations of everyone else.

Anonymous castricv October 23, 2012 10:39 AM  

Whichever came with the basic 3 or 4. It might even have not been small pox and I wrote that down wrong. I get some of this second hand from my wife when I am not able to take time to go to the doctor with them. We did the pertussis thing because it was required and well as a few that have abbreviation yet include multiple "diseases" for prevention. We have repeatedly turned down the flu and hepatitis, even though the doctor and nurses look at us like we are crazy for not wanting to have a 6 month old injected with these things.

Forgive the error, I'm not sure why I thought smallpox was included in some of the "bundled" injections.

Anonymous JP (real one) October 23, 2012 10:49 AM  

I agree on the pharma babes. If you hit the doc's office at the right time, it's like a sorority reunion.

One girl I graduated with is still a pharma babe, though we all recently eclipsed 40. I think she's hanging on due to botox and being a fitness maniac/semi anorexic type.

Anonymous Stickwick October 23, 2012 11:00 AM  

Spacebunny (or anyone else who cares to answer),

I need some advice. I just got an expectant mother booklet from my insurance company that includes the recommended vaccine schedule for our baby. The schedule looks excessive to me, and after what I've been reading on VP for the last couple of years, I don't want to follow it. Are there any websites/books that explain what inoculations an infant really needs and when?

Blogger Laramie Hirsch October 23, 2012 11:01 AM  

I take x-rays. No vaccinations for me, or my family. No need to increase our chances for cancer, autism, or other man-made ills.

I think, perhaps, a third or half of the folks in my department feel the same way about it.

Anonymous JartStar October 23, 2012 11:07 AM  

The issue, which Vox has pointed out before, is that there are no double blind studies as far as I know for side effects of vaccines in children. So both sides of the issue just have to use conjecture and statistics to prove the “science” of their decisions.

The fact that the Powers That Be won’t do a double blind study is highly suspicious, but does not provide evidence that vaccines are unsafe for children.

Anonymous JartStar October 23, 2012 11:17 AM  

Stickwick, expecting?!? Congratulations if so.

I know that I will be lambasted as vaccines are only second to the Fed as the great evil perpetrated on the world by the rulers of Black Helicopters, but I just went through this with our child.

I was unable to find any scientific evidence that deviating from the standard schedule is beneficial. I’ll repeat that for the others who just had a stroke, scientific evidence. You can spend days and days reading rhetoric from both sides on the issue, but alas there’s a lack of scientific rigor on the issue.

The choice is yours, and if you want to deviate to make yourself sleep better at night then Dr. Sears has written a reasonable book on the subject. Following his plan your child will get them all, just a little more spaced out.

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 11:26 AM  


People who can be vaccinated but choose not to be are free-riding on the vaccinations of everyone else.

Bullshit. There are people who have never been vaccinated that will never get these disease no matter how long and often they are exposed - see the black plague for details if you doubt it. Furthermore, those who get these diseases, have life long immunity (mostly, it depends on the disease) and they have the benefit of a strengthen immune system, the vaccinated ones? Not so much and the vaccinations will wear off. It also gives the vaccinated a false sense of security as there is no vaccine with 100% efficacy.

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 11:28 AM  

We did the pertussis thing because it was required and well as a few that have abbreviation yet include multiple "diseases" for prevention.

Required? Where are they required for infants?

Anonymous Roundtine October 23, 2012 11:28 AM  

Eat your boogers.

Anonymous Stickwick October 23, 2012 11:33 AM  

Stickwick, expecting?!? Congratulations if so.

Yes, and thanks. :)

Following his plan your child will get them all, just a little more spaced out.

That's my biggest concern -- the recommended schedule seems like a barrage of injections in a short amount of time for such a tiny little body. I'm also worried about quality control. What's underscoring all this concern -- and, admittedly, this is not rational -- is the memory of my infant nephew becoming feverish and lethargic after getting a round of vaccinations. Irrespective of whether that's a common reaction, I found it quite alarming.

Anyway, thanks for your response, JartStar. I appreciate that you're bringing up the scientific aspect. Like you, I wish there was more rigorous study.

Anonymous Angel October 23, 2012 11:43 AM  

Could someone please explain to me the MASSIVE concern regarding the flu? Why is there a vaccination for it and why is it such a huge deal with having to be vaccinated for it?

Because the reasons given seem to be a bunch of BS.

Anonymous Angel October 23, 2012 11:47 AM  

I was Pre-Med in college and switched to Nursing to try to finish my degree and get a job. My Microbiology professor worked on vaccines for several years and warned us NOT to take any vaccination for at least the first 7 to 12 years after they are released because he said for at least the first 5 years they are working out the kinks and then they are attempting to fix them. I explained to him I had just been forced to take a flu vaccination (among other, against my will and in comjuction with several others do to my new job) and he looked at me sadly and said "Your going to get very sick". I did.

Take if for what you will. He wasn't against all vaccines, very against the ones that made no sense (not life threatening and were "new".

Anonymous castricv October 23, 2012 11:52 AM  

Spacebunny --

http://health.nashville.gov/immunizations.htm

They are required for schooling and even in some localities for daycare. Not that we are putting them in daycare (my wife stays at home), but certainly it has to be done for school (still not 100% sure if homeschooling will be what we do). Since Nashville has seen a huge influx of Latin AMerican immigrants in the last 20 years, we have seen a huge upswing in Whooping cough, etc.

I understand that immunizations are a big cause for you and Vox and your arguments are well founded and persuasive, but I am comfortable with some immunizations insofar as I can see the obvious need, if I myself have had them long ago, and I haven't seen any issues online with them. (i.e. why does a toddler need Hepatitis shots when she is usually only at home or around kids at church for an hour?)

What I do find silly is the literally dozen things they try to throw at us every time we are there.

Anonymous Matthew October 23, 2012 11:53 AM  

Stickwick, it's an oldie, but Mendelsohn's How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor is a good resource for acquiring a healthy skepticism.

Vaccination Nazarites like to lie low, even in rural homeschooling circles, so I don't have many data points on families foregoing vaccinations entirely. We do not vaccinate our children (or do any "wellness checks" apart from taking the babes to visit the midwife later), and while this may be confirmation bias, our children appear to be notably stronger and more healthy than most of their peers.

One of my wife's relatives is another natural-birthing, homeschooling, rural, non-vaccinator. Eight kids, to date. Back when she only had five, they all caught the whooping cough. None became seriously ill, but they all felt puny for months. Then they recovered. They're all fine now.

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 11:53 AM  

Stickwick - While JartStar is correct that there is no scientific evidence that deviating from the set schedule is beneficial (there is LOADS of evidence that vaccines are harmful however) there is also no evidence for the contrary position - that sticking to the schedule is in anyway beneficial.

Especially if you are breastfeeding, but even if you are not, there is no need to vaccinate infants as the vast majority of them are not going to be exposed to any of the diseases they are being vaccinated for - what baby needs a tetnus vaccine for example. If, for example, your child has some underlying health issues, then the risks for some vaccines may be worth it. For example my nephew was born very prematurely and so his lungs were not particularly strong and it was worth the risk to get, say pertussis because if he got it as an infant it would likely be catastrophic.

Anyway, one site I like is http://www.nvic.org/about.aspx it is about as balanced as you are going to get with regards to vaccines. The problem is that the vast majority of what you read is either 100% for or 100% against, so you need to really try to educate yourself and weigh what the actual risks are to your child.

Blogger republicanmother October 23, 2012 11:54 AM  

My mother in law works in a hospital and she had to sign special waivers upon not receiving the flu shot. The pressure was immense, she had to watch a propaganda video and they make it appear to be mandatory. She started questioning the flu shot when her friend, ten years her junior, came down with Guillian-Barre and went on permanent disability. The doctors said the vaccine didn't do it of course. You just might inadvertently come down with a rare nervous disorder closely connected with flu shots by chance.

Anonymous Angel October 23, 2012 11:56 AM  

Stickwick, look for a Pediatrition that believes in a "relaxed" or "spaced" vaccine scheduel. Try the Dr. Sears site and then you could try to find a DO or Naturopath doctor.

Hep B is NEVER something I would ever give my children. And it is not required for anything. In fact, I refused it and was ready for my new Ped to start with me and He said he didn't know any newborns who were IV drug users or prostitutes and wouldn't advise me to give it to a newborn even if I wanted to.

A great tip for a new Mom..NURSE! Works great to nurse the Baby whenever they do need some kind of shot or anything that will hurt. That is not usual, but it was necessary when I ended up in the hospital with a six month old who need an IV and various lab tests.

Also, get ready to grow a big pair of Balls. Nurses and Doctors will outright lie to you and go against your will. Pray, research and hold your ground.

Castrivc,

What were these immunizations "required" for? Sounds like your wife or your Doctor is blowing smoke up your....

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 11:56 AM  

They are required for schooling and even in some localities for daycare.

Tennessee allows for exemptions, so no, they are not required - you clearly have zero idea what you are talking about as you have been demonstrably wrong about pretty much everything you've asserted thus far.

Blogger Nate October 23, 2012 11:57 AM  

Wife is an american board certified anesthesiologist.

Our 5 children are un-vaccinated.

Anonymous JartStar October 23, 2012 11:58 AM  

I’ll go ahead and turn this into a full Mommy Blog right now.

We just went through our second round and yes she did sleep more that night both times, and she was a little cranky for a day or two. In comparison she had severe allergies which turned into a mild ear infection, she screamed more getting her ear checked, and was much more miserable at night when sick than from either round of vaccinations. You may have to rely on Mr. Stickwick to be the one who holds the baby down at the doctor as Mrs. JartStar has to leave the room when the baby is getting poked and prodded.


Once again, congratulations! I know enough from reading your posts here that you will be a great mother.

In an attempt to save this thread I will point out that I’m looking at the pros and cons of a revolver or a semi for Mrs. JartStar for home defense as she needs simplicity and reliability first, and features second.

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 11:59 AM  

Castrivc - this is not to say that I don't respect your right to vax or not vax your children as you and your wife see fit.

Anonymous Angel October 23, 2012 12:03 PM  

Matthew, we battled whooping cough. I was home alone while my Husband was gone on a several months long business trip. I got hit with it, my baby and my two toddlers. I ate garlic like it was going out of style (raw, pounded and in raw honey) and as much vitamin C powder as possible. I used Robitussin (the one with only the decongestant Gusaphin, sorry for the spelling) and we were very sick for about two to three weeks and then weak for awhile. But we made it. Nursing worked AMAZING and my baby was the least sick of us all. I actually was glad I was still occasionally nursing the youngest toddler and began doing it more and then even pumped for the older one. We did the same thing when we were hit with the stomach flu.

It has gone around us twice more and we never got it. Better then a vaccine LOL.

Anonymous Bobo October 23, 2012 12:03 PM  

Seems quite retarded, considering most doctors have very little physical interaction with their patients. You're far more likely to pick up flu from hanging out with friends, at church, mall or at other social events, especially if you don't wash your hands frequently. Airborne bugs are more likely spread in close confided spaces with little ventilation, e.g. on bus rides or in planes. Maybe public transport should be looked at....

Anonymous Stickwick October 23, 2012 12:05 PM  

Thanks for the responses, all. That's helpful.

Anonymous TLM October 23, 2012 12:07 PM  

@castricv
To expand on the pharma rep thing, it's not even like once or twice a week peddling things. There are some days where 2 dozen reps come in......

I, and my peers in the surgical device sales profession, absolutely loathe the useless pharma reps. They have ruined the ability to see a surgeon outside of the hospital. For 15yrs I've watched them stuff the office staff full of bagels, cakes, sweets, lunch, etc. Now these office hogs demand that lunch be brought in before an appointment is given. Years ago I would play along until the day I brought in O'Charley's to an office, and before i could even get the food out of the container, a stampede of water buffaloes disguised as nurses, charged me and wiped out my generous offering. It took them about half a second to devour with barely a nod of thanks. Some offices schedule different pharma companies 5 days a week for the free lunches.I quit doing lunches after that day. And the days of the hottie pharma sluts are long gone. Now it tends to be a lot of mid-30's 5's & 6's, usually a couple of "single" moms thrown in for good measure. and overweight as well. Big Pharma has gone PC in their hiring.

And the flu shot I was forced to get to visit some of my hospitals for business turned my s#it black for 3 days!

Anonymous JartStar October 23, 2012 12:08 PM  

BTW if you want to see who the hidden fascists are among a group of people steer the conversation to vaccines and eventually pose the question if the government should force parents to give children vaccines if they are in public schools.

I first saw this in a group of people at the church who assuredly were “small government” types, but particularly the women of the group were all for government mandated vaccinations.

Blogger Joshua_D October 23, 2012 12:13 PM  

As a father with a wonderful wife who was prompted to start researching vaccines, combined with excellent information here from the Ilk, I have to say that I don't see much benefit in getting any vaccines. I can understand weighing the risks/benefit, like Spacebunny said, but personally, I don't think the possible benefit would outweigh the possible risk even for a premie baby. But of course, parents have to pray and make that decision as best they can.

What really does it for me is when you realize, like Spacebunny has already mentioned, that vaccines wear off, and people who get any particular disease, most of which are not deadly, have life-long immunity thereafter.

Anonymous Wendy October 23, 2012 12:13 PM  

@Stickwick - We choose not to have any vaccinations for our little guy...10 months, so far so good - he hasn't even had a cold yet. Sometime down the line he'll get some vaccinations, but not right now. It really is hard to find good answers out there. The topic is way too emotionally based and as others have mentioned, there is a glaring dearth of good scientific information. First, try to find a pediatrician who will support a non routine schedule and start now - it's not necessarily an easy thing. Try this list provided by Dr. Sears. I'd say for sure skip the Hepatitis shot. The only reason it's given is if the mother has Hepatitis and I guess they think it's easier to give a newborn a shot than to test the mom. If you're doing a hospital birth make it very clear no shots. You may want to read up on vitamin K to see whether or not you want that given too. Your husband will be essential to make sure your wishes are followed. After the hospital, you have a couple months to really decide. Just weigh in factors like whether the little one will be in daycare (and therefore exposed to a lot more) to decide what's best for your family. In general, later and more spread out is quite reasonable.

Anonymous Josh October 23, 2012 12:14 PM  

Wife is an american board certified anesthesiologist.Our 5 children are un-vaccinated

Anonymous Josh October 23, 2012 12:17 PM  

In an attempt to save this thread I will point out that I’m looking at the pros and cons of a revolver or a semi for Mrs. JartStar for home defense as she needs simplicity and reliability first, and features second. 

Do you already have a shotgun for home defense?

Anonymous Columnist October 23, 2012 12:19 PM  

Some people take the same logic for mandatory circumcisions.

Anonymous JartStar October 23, 2012 12:22 PM  

Do you already have a shotgun for home defense?

Yes.

Anonymous rycamor October 23, 2012 12:26 PM  

More study needs to be done on the connection between exercise and a strengthened immune system. Since I started lifting weights again, I have gotten sick literally 1/10 as much as I used to. Over the past year, wife and kids have gotten one cold after another, fevers, flu, whatever and I deliberately chose to be exposed, just to see what would happen. Result: about 1 in 5 times I would feel low for a couple days and then bounce back. MAJOR difference from previous years.

I don't know what percentage of this I can attribute to exercise and what is to improved diet, and more vitamin D from sun exposure, but I have always eaten fairly well, so my intuition is that the weightlifting (and some running and calisthenics) makes at least 80% of the difference. I am now working up an exercise plan for the whole family, which will involve at least 20 minutes a day of workout in the sun.

Anonymous Noah B. October 23, 2012 12:26 PM  

@Stickwick

Here's a free book about vaccines that looks interesting. I haven't read it all though so I can't vouch for it.

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 12:35 PM  

rycamor - there have actually been a number of studies done that suggest that exercise boosts your immune system.

Anonymous rycamor October 23, 2012 12:44 PM  

What I would be curious about is if the benefits outweigh the purported benefits of vaccinations, as measured over a lifetime (emphasis on "purported"). If so, it would make far more sense for our government to give everyone a Wii Fit program than a series of vaccinations.

Anonymous Luke October 23, 2012 12:45 PM  

Surgeon friend of mine absolutely JUMPED on getting smallpox vax when he had the chance. I would have, too. Flu vax? Worthless for the 18-55 crowd if your health isn't already garbage IMO.

Anonymous Stickwick October 23, 2012 12:45 PM  

@ JartStar: Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm already on a pre-motherhood anxiety installment plan, but everyone says motherhood comes naturally and not to worry. (BTW, my husband leaves me his Mossberg 500 when he's gone, but I also have a .45 for backup. Revolver might be better for someone less-experienced.)

@ Wendy: I'll shop around for a sympathetic pediatrician. I will be a SAHM, so no daycare. I will also be homeschooling later on. That, along with breastfeeding, probably mitigates a lot of the risk of exposure.

Thanks, again, folks, for the advice.

Anonymous rycamor October 23, 2012 12:49 PM  

I mean, I knew there was a link between exercise/immunity, but I did not expect it to be that extreme. It seems that link is more important once you enter middle age.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 23, 2012 12:50 PM  

"what baby needs a tetanus vaccine for example."

It seems counterintuitive at first, but consider: people who live in areas prone to earthquakes or tornados are at risk of being suddenly hit by a lot of broken glass, falling debris, and other sharp objects flying at them and causing puncture wounds.

I don't know whether a tetanus vac is dangerous for a baby, but the sudden-yet-improbable risk is indeed present in places like Southern California.

Forget the vaccines for a moment, look at this part:

"...said Maher El-Masri, a nursing professor at the University of Windsor"

Why the f#ck is there a creature called 'Maher el-Masri' at a place called the 'University of Windsor'?

Is there a way that our society can vaccinate itself against foreign disease-causing organisms with names like Maher El-Masri?



Blogger Giraffe October 23, 2012 1:03 PM  

In an attempt to save this thread I will point out that I’m looking at the pros and cons of a revolver or a semi for Mrs. JartStar for home defense as she needs simplicity and reliability first, and features second.

I've been thinking of the Ruger light compact revolver (LCR) for Mrs. G.

Pros: Simple, reliable, light weight, manageable recoil.
Comes in .357 mag now if more power is desired.

cons: Poor sights, not a long range weapon. These aren't really problems, though. Only five shots, reload is slow unless one practices with a speedloader.

saftey con: Must be kept away from children. It is double action, no safety. Pull the trigger = bang, no safety to disengage.

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/index.html

Anonymous JartStar October 23, 2012 1:19 PM  

I've been thinking of the Ruger light compact revolver (LCR) for Mrs. G.

I've been looking at a Taurus 7 round +P ultra-lite with fiber optic sights. I think a short barrel .357 will be too difficult for her to control. If I got a .357 and put 38 +P in it, I lose 2 rounds.

Taurus also comes with a nice safety feature key and is less expensive.

Anonymous Anonymous October 23, 2012 1:22 PM  

Im a health care worker, and I wouldnt want the flu vaccine for me, or my children. Even before my awareness was raised by this blog of the harmful effects of vaccines, I couldnt help but notice how sick I became after flu shots, and how pervasive it was, months after the shot

yukonyon

Anonymous JartStar October 23, 2012 1:27 PM  

They do make a .357 7 shot.

Nice.

Blogger Giraffe October 23, 2012 1:32 PM  

Looks good to me. Little bit heavier.

Anonymous Mr. Nightstick October 23, 2012 1:34 PM  

@JartStar

If you want reliability get a semi. I have seen a demo from a Gunsmith where he demos a working revolver, drops it, them shows how it stops working from a single drop. He then opens it, adjusts it just right and then hits it with a hammer and it starts working again. His point was that revolvers are less reliable than a good semi.

Compare that with the torture tests you can see online for a Glock or say a SIG. I have seen those guns get dropped out of helicopters and run over by tanks and still fire.

Anonymous kh October 23, 2012 1:36 PM  

Tetanus immunization in the newborn is not for risk of injury. It is for prevention of neonatal tetanus from contamination of the umbilical cord or circumcision. I've never seen a case in over 20 years of neonatology. It is pretty rare in a society that doesn't deliver infants at the farm house and pack the cord with cow dung.

Anonymous castricv October 23, 2012 1:41 PM  

Spacebunny, I'm not sure why you are so upset about all this. I have corrected the brainfart I had for a second about the concoction of things that they put in my childrens' first three shots, (it's been a while) one of which is for pertussis and then I am certain I simply said smallpox (almost a dead disease) instead of polio. I corrected that shortly after you pointed that out.

The second point is you asked what was required in TN and I plainly posted it for you. If you want (and yes who would want) to put your kids in the public schools here, they are required to have certain vaccines. Most private daycares have picked this up as well because as I stated, a ton of immigrant children are expanding the number of cases of things such as whooping cough, etc. in Nashville. We might need to utilize daycare or public schools in the future (unlikely but still), but the bottom line is I felt comfortable giving them a few shots which I myself have had many many years ago, especially considering that the diseases they are preventing are prevelant in my city.

I am sorry this offends you, as I am not an immunization advocate and have declined numerous ridiculous immunizations for both of my children.

Anonymous JP (real one) October 23, 2012 1:46 PM  

"And the days of the hottie pharma sluts are long gone. Now it tends to be a lot of mid-30's 5's & 6's, usually a couple of "single" moms thrown in for good measure. and overweight as well. Big Pharma has gone PC in their hiring.

And the flu shot I was forced to get to visit some of my hospitals for business turned my s#it black for 3 days!"

Maybe they've gone the way of the airlines. (U.S. airlines that is...Japan and Singapore Air still know how to hire stewardesses.) Here in the less PC Deep South, there are still quite a few pharma hotties...at least there were a few years ago.


Anonymous Dr. J October 23, 2012 1:46 PM  

Wifey and I are both surgeons. Neither of us gets the flu vaccine. Our children are unvaccinated. Still considering delayed schedule with MMR, polio, and DTP, but ever since learning of the origins of vaccines have begun to question those on ethical grounds.

@Nate - if your wife is ever interested in bugging out of the US to do anesthesia for a general and ortho surgeon in a medical tourism setting (i.e. fee for service), send me an e-mail. That's our fallback solution.

Anonymous zen0 October 23, 2012 1:47 PM  

From what I understand, the flu shots are based on a best guess of what strain will show up. If anything else comes by, or something like swine flu shows up, it has no effect.

I know someone who works in healthcare in B.C. I should ask her why they don't want the shot.

PS
My mother died 2 days after getting a flu shot.
Just a coincidence.

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 1:59 PM  

Spacebunny, I'm not sure why you are so upset about all this.

I'm not upset in the least, why would I be - projection much?


The second point is you asked what was required in TN and I plainly posted it for you. If you want (and yes who would want) to put your kids in the public schools here, they are required to have certain vaccines

And this is why I have a fair amount of contempt for you and your opinion - they are not required. There are exemptions. In other words, since you are apparently fairly slow, you don't have to do it.

You claim to have declined numerous "ridiculous" immunizations for your children but you demonstrably have not (you gave them DTaP for pity's sake - your six month old was not at risk for tetanus and diptheria? Really? and the only cases of polio in the US for the last several decades are linked directly to the vaccine) and not only that, you don't even know what they were given, by your own admission.

Also, I'm curious what you consider ridiculous since you claim they are vaccinated as per the TN state requirements for public schools and daycare - this includes the chicken pox vaccination as well as HepA, HepB, and MMR and as you stated that you have them vaccinated as per the "required" schedule.....

Anonymous Cryan Ryan October 23, 2012 2:06 PM  

Having a sister who is a nurse (small town clinic/nursing home) for about 30 years, I have learned the following...

1) Most nurses would inject you with steaming hydrocloric acid if they were told to do so.

2) Nurses will spoonfeed a brain-dead baby boomer for 25 years and then be sad when the mealticket... er I mean patient... dies.

3) Diabetes is to be controlled with insulin and whatever other drugs the doctor says to use. Never mind how much gluten/high fructose corn syrup they stuff down their pie holes each day, how huge their spare tire is, or how gigantic and purple are their swollen ankles. Diet cannot be changed. You medicate for the individual patient.

4) Kids will get every shot the doctor says they should get. Parents who object to this are just stupid.

5) Patients who don't eat enough need to be force fed.

If you expess any opinion that goes against these FACTS, my Sis will furrow her brow and tell you how dumb you are.

If men were in charge of the nursing homes (i.e. if women didn't elect our politicians) the numbers of occupied beds would shrink down considerably due to attrition in just a few weeks. Women will wipe asses and force feed brain dead patients for decades.

This vaccine issue, as most cases of insanity, would not be an issue except for women's suffrage.

Anonymous Noah B. October 23, 2012 2:10 PM  

@Giraffe

I've had really good experiences with Rugers over the years. They're not always the most elegant guns, but they've invariably been sturdy and reliable.

One of the problems I've encountered several times when providing basic pistol training to women is that it is often difficult for them to pull back the slide on an automatic. Neither my mother or my wife can readily pull back the slide on a subcompact Glock, for example. However, they can both operate full size Glocks very easily. So if at some point you do find yourself leaning toward an automatic, you'll want to have your wife operate the slide first, and if at all possible, actually fire that model at the range.

I have seen reliability and accuracy problems with a wide range of Taurus firearms over the years and would be reluctant to purchase one, and even more reluctant to rely on one for self-defense.

As far as the lack of safety on a revolver is concerned, that's in no way detrimental to the overall safety of the firearm. A safety does little to prevent a curious child from playing with and accidentally discharging the weapon.

Anonymous JCclimber October 23, 2012 2:22 PM  

@castriv
If they require shots, how do they handle children who have an allergy to albumin (egg white) who can't receive any vaccinations? Refuse them entry to school? I have not yet encountered any place (in America) where they can force you to be immunized, except the military. The problem that most people have is that they don't stand their ground, insist on their rights, and force the leeetle petty bureaucrats to dig for the exception paperwork, with their sighs and drama queen behavior.

As SB pointed out, no one here is arguing against your right to vaccinate your own children.

My son is getting the FluMist vaccine today. Lord, the crap we put up with at our Pediatrician's office to get them to special order that vaccine and pay extra to get it for him! But he isn't getting a shot, instead he's getting three weakened live flu strains, which he'll fight off for a couple days. He'll be at 90% energy for the next 2 days, then back to normal. And then for the next year when everyone around him is getting sick again and again (flu vaccinated or not), he'll be sailing on through just like the last few years.

My wife and I have to go to a special travel clinic to get our FluMist. My company gives all employees free flu shots but I can't convince them to get any FluMist, even if I pay for it out of pocket. I'll never get another flu shot.

Blogger republicanmother October 23, 2012 2:27 PM  

As a Tennessean, I am familiar with the waiver form:

http://www.tennessee.gov/education/schoolhealth/healthservices/doc/Religious_Immun_Exemp.pdf

Here's section 2 of the statute:

"In the absence of an epidemic or immediate threat of an epidemic, this section shall not apply to any child whose parent or guardian files with school authorities a signed, written statement that the immunization and other preventive measures conflict with the parent's or guardian's religious tenets and practices, affirmed under the penalties of perjury."

It's all color of law to force the population into purchasing (through their own insurance or Medicaid) hundreds of dollars of Pharma products.

Anonymous DonReynolds October 23, 2012 2:33 PM  

Angel..."Hep B is NEVER something I would ever give my children. And it is not required for anything. In fact, I refused it and was ready for my new Ped to start with me and He said he didn't know any newborns who were IV drug users or prostitutes and wouldn't advise me to give it to a newborn even if I wanted to."

It would be best if you stay out of the State of Oklahoma, where all school kids are REQUIRED to get Hep B before they can spend a DAY in public schools. I moved there in 1999 and none of my kids could start school until they could show proof of Hep B immunization. Since the Health Department does not offer it but once every two weeks, my kids were out of school during the first half of January 2000. I know, never heard of it anywhere else either.

Anonymous D.A. October 23, 2012 2:34 PM  

Flu vax? Worthless for the 18-55 crowd if your health isn't already garbage IMO.

I lost a healthy, mid-20s male friend to the flu. It blew up into ARDS and he died of multiple organ failure. I don't know if the flu shot would have prevented it, but the flu itself can be very bad news even for healthy adults.

Anonymous JCclimber October 23, 2012 2:37 PM  

Stickwick, my advice would be:

1) Default position on every single vaccination is NO.

2) Force them to prove to you the need for every single vaccine. Be firm but sweet about it. Smile. Most women get puffy about this, but if you can smile and still be absolutely firm, the doctor's office will cave first. Always. Be like Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse. Be nice.

3) Even the ones they convince you about, delay, delay, delay, delay on the schedule. The schedule if for the vast majority of utterly stupid and brain dead American public. Who won't take the effort after the first year to bring the child to the doctor's office, so they have to "get them" in that first year or miss their chance to shoot them full of pharma products. Tell them you're willing to pay the extra co-pay and whatever other charges are necessary to avoid combination vaccinations. Do your homework. Be mindful that they are extremely busy and if you can come armed with specific vaccines from specific manufacturers for them to order for your next visit, they will appreciate it.

4) If you agree to the MMR, put that one off, again and again, until they are 5 or 6 years old. Especially after Merck just got majorly busted for outright fraud and lying about that particular vaccine. We wouldn't have gotten our son this one except we have traveled to a dozen countries with him, some of them with 3rd world health issues. Same thing with the Hep A/B shots.

Keep in mind that the vaccine advocates are the number one FEAR MONGERS in the world. Write down and bring the facts and statistics with you. They're going to hit you with this stuff the first few hours in the hospital when you are tired, and very hormonal. Have a united front on this.

Anonymous DonReynolds October 23, 2012 2:43 PM  

Noah B. "So if at some point you do find yourself leaning toward an automatic, you'll want to have your wife operate the slide first, and if at all possible, actually fire that model at the range."

I agree, Noah B. Too many guys want to push the big bore pistols on the women when they do not have the grip to use it. Women do not need a cannon for self-defense. I put girlfriend into a .22 auto and provided her with plenty of hollow-point ammo to practice with. Once she gets comfortable with shooting and improves her accuracy, she might drift into a 9mm. But in the meantime, this works well and she enjoys shooting, without the loud report and bone jarring. Let them learn first.

She asked me at one point if the .22 will stop anyone. I told her, "of course...even if you miss." Nothing wrong with .22 cal. I certainly would not want to be shot with one at close range. Yes, .22 kills more people every year than any other round.

Anonymous Noah B. October 23, 2012 3:10 PM  

A .22 isn't a bad way to go at all. That's a much better choice than a .25 or probably even a .32.

Anonymous DrTorch October 23, 2012 3:14 PM  

Ross Upshur maintained that eschewing a flu shot fundamentally violates the credo of “do no harm.”

Is no one else disgusted by the fact that Upshur ignores the obvious fact that many vaccinations fundamentally violate the credo "do no harm," even when you believe they're effective? They often make people sick (and there are plenty of anecdotes listed here). And that's when they're effective, what about all ineffective ones, or the unintended consequences?

I understand that philosophers have given up on logic. But the hybrid of post-modernist irrationality blended with the disregard of big pharma has no tangible difference from shamanism.

Anonymous Dr. J October 23, 2012 3:19 PM  

@Don Reynolds:

Why would you ever send your kids to public school? In my experience, vaccine skeptics and compulsory public education skeptics are natural bedfellows.

Anonymous VD October 23, 2012 3:28 PM  

Keep in mind that the vaccine advocates are the number one FEAR MONGERS in the world. Write down and bring the facts and statistics with you. They're going to hit you with this stuff the first few hours in the hospital when you are tired, and very hormonal. Have a united front on this.

And commit this phrase to memory: "I'm an astrophysicist, so fuck off. Do you really want to argue this with me?"

Anonymous Stickwick October 23, 2012 3:38 PM  

Do your homework. Be mindful that they are extremely busy and if you can come armed with specific vaccines from specific manufacturers for them to order for your next visit, they will appreciate it.

I wouldn't even know where to start looking for info on specific manufacturers. I feel very out of my element in this regard, and am concerned I'll make a disastrous decision for my baby no matter what I do. I've started looking through the resources recommended here, but am starting to feel a bit overwhelmed by the sheer amount of vaccine info that's available (along with the info I need for everything else baby-related). This is probably one big reason most people just go with the CDC recommendations.

Anonymous Stickwick October 23, 2012 3:42 PM  

And commit this phrase to memory: "I'm an astrophysicist, so fuck off. Do you really want to argue this with me?"

Said, of course, with a sweet, Roadhouse smile.

Problem is, I'm feeling like a confused moron about this stuff right now. But with five months to go, I can probably get it figured out. Black holes are WAY less complicated than babies, I'll tell ya that.

Anonymous Dr. J October 23, 2012 4:02 PM  

@Stickwick: This is probably one big reason most people just go with the CDC recommendations.

If you look at CDC website information on thimerisol content of vaccines, and the separate information on maximum "safe" dosage per kilogram weight, you will see that recommend levels are exceeded for the average 2-4 month old going off of the recommended vaccine schedule. Hidden in plain sight.

Anonymous JartStar October 23, 2012 4:03 PM  

I feel very out of my element in this regard, and am concerned I'll make a disastrous decision for my baby no matter what I do.

Welcome to parenthood.

Anonymous JartStar October 23, 2012 4:07 PM  

I feel very out of my element in this regard, and am concerned I'll make a disastrous decision for my baby no matter what I do.

Welcome to parenthood.

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 4:10 PM  

Don - in Oklahoma you can fill out a form for exemption from any or all vaccinations. Although more and more states are making this extremely difficult with allowances only for medical exemptions, so far Oklahoma is not one of them.

Anonymous Stickwick October 23, 2012 4:14 PM  

@ Dr. J.: Saw the same thing on the NVIC website. Which, of course, gets a big WTH??!?

@ JartStar: So, when do I get my membership card and secret decoder ring?

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 4:16 PM  

Stickwick - of course you feel that way and you will worry about a thousand other things. You don't need to read everything from the manufactures, try not to overwhelm yourself. If you decide not to or to delay, just simply tell your doctor this. You don't need to defend your position to them, they are doing a service for you and if they are unwilling to provide said service, politely thank them for their time and find another doctor. Frankly, be calm and forthright about your wishes is the best thing you can do. If you have done some research and have made up your mind, then there is no point in discussing it. Frankly, if you done any research at all, you are likely better informed than just about any doctor out there. Our pediatrician's specialty is allergies and immunology. He talked with us briefly about our decision, we weren't defensive in the least, it was clear to him that we weren't making a knee jerk emotional decision and he was fine with it. Basically, his opinion seemed to be that it was our decision, and he's right. Of course, he also thinks the US schedule is insane.

Anonymous Stickwick October 23, 2012 4:24 PM  

Thanks, Spacebunny. Good to know I don't have to be an expert on this, just informed. Plus, calm and forthright. I can do that. :)

Anonymous JartStar October 23, 2012 4:28 PM  

So, when do I get my membership card and secret decoder ring?

You gotta earn those. You get the membership card about 3:30 AM four weeks after the baby is born when you are up for the third time that night. The ring will be delivered in week seven during the witching hour after the baby has been crying for an hour for no medically discernible reason.

As for vaccine decisions you have the advantage of routinely weighing evidence for claims thanks to your profession. I'd recommend treating vaccine claims the same as any other scientific claim, but realize that good evidence is scarce to say the least. In the end do what is right for you and your family, stick with it, and pray.

Blogger Spacebunny October 23, 2012 4:51 PM  

So, when do I get my membership card and secret decoder ring?

I was an experienced nanny when I had my first, and I am a pretty laid back mom as far as illness and injuries go, basically, if it isn't spurting blood or jutting bone, quitcherbitchin -I'm the same way with illness. That being said, I would not have slept at all the first few months if I hadn't been able to pray. Pray, pray, pray. It will calm you. God did not give us a spirit of fear. Have confidence.

Anonymous Wendy October 23, 2012 5:08 PM  

You gotta earn those. You get the membership card about 3:30 AM four weeks after the baby is born when you are up for the third time that night. The ring will be delivered in week seven during the witching hour after the baby has been crying for an hour for no medically discernible reason.

So that's why I never received mine. Dang, I love my kid. (Ok, I'd love him regardless, but he does make it easy.)

Stickwick, you aren't alone in your confusion. There's other stuff too...plastics leeching compounds...reusable diapers vs disposables...the list of stuff just goes on.

It's easy enough to get their vaccinations later but you can't take them back once given, so just take your time with it.

And back to the flu shot. No way. They're guessing which strains will make it over here.

Blogger Nate October 23, 2012 5:08 PM  

Stickwick

When in doubt... listen to Nate. This is the wisest possible option.

And what does Nate say?

Nate says its bloody daft to hyper-stimulate the immune system when that immune system is still developing.

If you want to immunize your kid in 6 years... then make that decision then... when it matters. You can't unvaccinate.

Dig?

Blogger Nate October 23, 2012 5:11 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Nate October 23, 2012 5:12 PM  

And commit this phrase to memory: "I'm an astrophysicist, so fuck off. Do you really want to argue this with me?"

I would add "hormonal" in there before astrophysicist. It makes it far more threatening.

Anonymous JCclimber October 23, 2012 5:20 PM  

@Stickwick.
Prayer is good. Also, I think most parents, especially women, but men too, worry too much that the neighbors, strangers in the store, on the street, etc will think them a horrible or even abusive parent if their kid is crying.

Yeah. Work on your confident body language. Practice saying "Yep, must be that time of day when he/she is ready to cry!". or similar phrase. Kids will try that blackmail for the rest of their lives. Get the practice in early on being tough and confident before they get sophisticated.

SB has great advice.

Our pediatrician is on the leadership board of the Bay Area vaccination advocacy group. I was astounded about the level of ignorance and Kool-Aid drinking that went on with her. She was astonished that I would calmly and resolutely challenge every one of her assumptions and demands. I am certain she had never encountered that before in her 25 years of practice.

If you have to use Vox's advice, you've already lost the argument. But it's good to rehearse saying that before the doctor visit so your attitude and confidence level is corrected.

Anonymous JartStar October 23, 2012 5:21 PM  

One last suggestion Stickwick. I'd recommend this book. The suggestions don't work for every child, the advice is a little scattered and inconsistent, but it will let you know what to expect week to week. For example, our daughter experienced the "Witching Hour" literally to the day from conception as predicted and while it didn't make her cry any less at least we knew that there wasn't anything seriously wrong and "this too shall pass".

Other than that, routine, routine, routine, in the evening even when it doesn't seem to help. It will pay off.

Anonymous realmatt October 23, 2012 7:14 PM  

I will never understand how it's putting the VACCINATED patients in danger, or putting the VACCINATED students in danger to be around NON VACCINATED people.

If the vaccines work, then it's the non vaccinated who are at risk.

Anonymous righteous gobbler October 23, 2012 9:09 PM  

Hey I'd like too know when the jack-booted gov health fascists are going to start compelling people to excercise their immune systems along with excercising their cardiovascular systems, eating right (Bless you Michelle) and "living healthy".

How does one excercise one's immune system?
By allowing it to do what it is designed to do of course. By exposing oneself to (gasp!) germs (eeeeek!).

Will The government ever attempt to coerce citizens into getting healthy be nurturing a robust natural immune system.
Not on your life; no money in that Jack.

Blogger Bob Wallace October 23, 2012 9:12 PM  

"Hep B is NEVER something I would ever give my children."

When my niece brought home her newborn son he was bronze and didn't smile, ever. My sister said he was jaundiced (which is rather normal for newborns) but this was out of the ordinary. When I asked his mother if he had been vaccinated with a hepatitis vaccine she told me he had been given it upon birth. The boy is seven and in my opinion not even close to being right. He stayed bronze for at least two weeks. He still never smiles.

Anonymous zen0 October 23, 2012 9:23 PM  

Nate says its bloody daft to hyper-stimulate the immune system when that immune system is still developing.

Traditional Chinese theory says no one except the mother should be in close contact with the child for the first month while its immune system is developed through breast milk.

The rest of the family gets introduced a month after the birth at a coming out party of sorts.

Anonymous paradox October 23, 2012 9:38 PM  

JartStar October 23, 2012 1:19 PM

I've been thinking of the Ruger light compact revolver (LCR) for Mrs. G.

I've been looking at a Taurus 7 round +P ultra-lite with fiber optic sights. I think a short barrel .357 will be too difficult for her to control. If I got a .357 and put 38 +P in it, I lose 2 rounds.

Taurus also comes with a nice safety feature key and is less expensive.


My brother bought his wife a Ruger LCR. She is left-handed and she just couldn't rack the slide on an automatic.

For nightstand duty only... the full size DA/SA PX 4 Storm is nice. Round capacity can be up to 21 rounds for the 9mm version, and 18 for 40 S&W chambered version.

Blogger Astrosmith October 23, 2012 9:55 PM  

What about that heel stick "test" they subject newborns to? What is that really for, and can we refuse it as well?

Mrs Astro is two weeks from her due date for our fifth child, and we're ready to deal with the nurses & doctors about this.

Anonymous Matthew October 23, 2012 10:10 PM  

Astrosmith: "we're ready to deal with the nurses & doctors about this."

Been practicing your uppercut? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoxc-uqpNY8

Anonymous Noah B. October 23, 2012 10:31 PM  

"I will never understand how it's putting the VACCINATED patients in danger, or putting the VACCINATED students in danger to be around NON VACCINATED people."

I know, but this is the kind of argument we consistently hear from the truly crazy, who demand that we ALL have to drink the Kool Aid before their solution can really work. You see this with gun control, state-run health care, socialism, etc.

Blogger Nate October 23, 2012 11:13 PM  

"What about that heel stick "test" they subject newborns to? What is that really for, and can we refuse it as well?"

Astro

That's a bilirubin test. Bilirubin is a natural by product of breaking down red bloodcells. Its why bruises turn yellow. Jaundice? Yes. you need to let them do the bilirubin stick if they ask to do it.

The other heal stick is the PKU test. Phenylketonuria test. Its a genetic condition where the body is unable to break down phenylalanine which then becomes a toxin which causes mental retardation than cannot be reversed. Catching it early is CRITICAL. And the test is just a heel stick.

Let them do the PKU.. and they probably won't need the bilirubin... but if they do... let them do that too.

You can debate the vitamin K shot. They give it to help the newborn's blood to clot. to put this in biblical perspective... note that in the bible babies weren't circumsized before day 8. Thats because the babies didn't have enough vitamen K in their systems until that time. It takes a while for them to build it up. They are born with literally none.

So if its a boy and you want the little fella circumcised before you leave the hospital you should definitely let them give him the vitamin k shot. Otherwise its not that big a deal.

Anonymous DrTorch October 24, 2012 6:58 AM  

One last suggestion Stickwick. I'd recommend this book.

That is a good book. I found its value for older kids, understanding that "8 hrs sleep" is fine for an adult, but not for a 5 year old. You wanna know why kindergarten is a mess these days? Having a classroom full of sleep-deprived children plays a big role.

Anonymous kh October 24, 2012 8:07 AM  

PKU is just one of a large battery of tests that is routinely performed on the "heel stick test". It also includes sickle cell disease, cystic fibrosis, a host of metabolic disorders, hypothroidism etc...

Vitamin K is for hemorrhagic disease of the newborn. GI, cutaneous and intracranial bleeding may be noted. Dangerous, but not very common, and there are usually underlying problems that predispose an infant to vit K deficiency or vit K malabsorption. Vit K is made by bacteria in the gut, so anything that kills the normal bacteria in the gut will make it more likely to develop vit K deficiency.

Hep B vaccine is really only for people that do IV drugs or are sexually promiscuous. Its use in newborns is, in my opinion, social experimentation by the AAP. I always agree with parents when they decline it.

The eye ointment (erythromycin) is an antiobiotic for chlamydia (a leading causeof blindness in the world but not the US) and syphilis. Unnecessary if mother doesn't have those infections. It is applied to every infant so no affected infant is missed.

Hate immunizations and antibiotics are evil (unless, of course, they save your life!)

Anonymous kh October 24, 2012 8:13 AM  

Also. The bilirubin test is important. There are forms of jaundice that are pathological and dangerous. However, we are designed by God to be jaundiced in the first week of life. Unconjugated bilirubin is an important anti-oxidant and protective to the infant in the first week of life. That's why it is called "physiologic jaundice". If the infant is active, feeding well, and stooling... there is no need for treatment unless the levels get unusually high.

If there is a blood type mismatch between mother and infant, there may be destruction of the red blood cells (hemolysis) and it becomes pathological. This form of jaundice needs prompt treatment.

Whatever a mother may be told, do not stop breast feeding!

Anonymous superdestroyer October 24, 2012 8:23 AM  

Many hospitals in the U.S. require a full set of immunizations to include flu shots. If an employee refuses a flu shot, many hospitals require the employee to wear a mask all of the time.

The reason is that Medicare will not pay for secondary infections that develop in the hospital. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/80074.php

Eventually the rules will put many hospitals out of business because the costs of caring for patients with secondary infections will be greater than the difference between reimbursements and costs.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch September 20, 2014 5:31 PM  

Seems my hospital is making it mandatory to get a flu vaccination this winter.

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