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Monday, October 01, 2012

WND column

A Government of Lies

For years, the media and all right-thinking individuals have ridiculed the Americans who don’t believe the official story that Saudi hijackers armed with box cutters brought down three buildings in New York, deriding them as “truthers.” Since 2008, the media and all right-thinking individuals have ridiculed the Americans who don’t believe the official story that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii to married parents, deriding them as “birthers.”

What, then, shall we call the Americans who don’t believe the official story that the Libyan assault on the American consulate in Benghazi, which killed four Americans, including the American ambassador to Libya, was the direct consequence of a YouTube film produced by an immigrant scam artist? Shall we call them “filmers”?

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320 Comments:

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Anonymous Idle Spectator October 01, 2012 4:01 AM  

Call them Ad Libya-ers.

Anonymous Stilicho October 01, 2012 4:07 AM  

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus

Anonymous Just Mark October 01, 2012 4:54 AM  

Henceforth let anyone who works for the government be known as a guardian.

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 5:05 AM  

WOW WOW WOW! Never expected that from you. You the man.

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 5:11 AM  

I hope Clay reads this. He is like brother to me.

Anonymous HongKongCharlie October 01, 2012 5:51 AM  

Birthers, Truthers, Filmers and we can include our dear leaders as Liars.

HKC

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 01, 2012 5:55 AM  

Stop sucking Voxcox.

Cordially yours,
Everyone

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 6:02 AM  

"Stop sucking Voxcox."

Stop sucking government cox

Cordially yours,
Gregg

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 6:07 AM  

Gregg Tompkins if you want to know, in FT Worth TX. Who are you?

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 01, 2012 6:08 AM  

Addendum Hair-3.1415926535

Client sensitive from the butthurt. It was too large after sitting.

Ibid.
Voxcoxstill.nmowth

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 6:14 AM  

coward!

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 01, 2012 6:16 AM  

I'm sure you're right that the USG is lying to the public constantly, but isn't that pretty much what all governments do? Maybe a place like Fiji or Singapore can afford to be straight with its people, but govts of most large countries are so up to their chins in sinister crap that most of the time it's a relief to assume that they're lying. For instance, telling anything even close to the truth about JFK's killing could have resulted in a war, depending on who you believe. 9/11 of course DID result in a war, but if they'd told the truth about it, maybe the war would have been a different sort of one, against an entirely different enemy. (That position actually implies, ironically, that they DID tell the truth about 9/11; if they had been looking for a lie, they could have just pinned it on the Iraqis then and there, and had their pre-fab excuse for the Iraq invasion that the neocons already had such a hard-on for, without going through the contortions about WMDs years later. Besides, who needed a war in Afghanistan?)

What I don't get about Benghazi is why they bothered to lie at all. Obama and Clinton aren't personally responsible for every individual low-level embassy security-staffing issue on the planet. They could have easily demanded some mid-level HR bureaucrat's head on a pike, the MSM would have rolled over and said anything they wanted (MSM to Obama: tug my hair! Why don't you ever say my name when you come?), and the whole thing would have gone away. If anything, it could be spun as an indication of the success of the war against AQ. Here we are, on the fateful anniversary of their greatest strike, and the best they can do is kill a few embassy staffers in some overseas Third World rat's nest? What, no blowing up Sea World or something dramatic on American soil? Sounds to me like they're pretty thinned out. Or it would have, if they'd spun it that way.

What bothers me more than the lying about Benghazi is the pettiness, the confused nature of it, the whole amateur-hour thing. We pay for a government the size of a James Bond villain's underground volcano secret base; they least they could do is give us a bit of Ernst Blofeld professionalism with their villainy.


Anonymous Idle Spectator October 01, 2012 6:19 AM  

coward!

I'm telling Mom on you.

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 6:24 AM  

"I'm telling Mom on you."

Your mom is dead. couldn't care less. If you don't understand my meaning, too damn bad.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 01, 2012 6:30 AM  

If you don't understand my meaning, too damn bad.

Homosessual Lisssping Voice: I can't take it, Idle isss makin' fun way too hard. So I killed hisss Mom and had sesss with the corpssseh. Backdoor entree.

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 6:44 AM  

" So I killed hisss Mom and had sesss with the corpssseh. Backdoor entree. "

Go away you are now an idiot and everyone knows it. What is your name and city please. or are you a fraud and a so called homo?

is that threat? because if it is you will be hunted down. I'll get the IP. Believe me you don't want to mess with the Tompkins boys.

This is where the delete comes in and I want the IP Vox, or I will get it another way.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 6:58 AM  

Why do parents lie to their children. Because they feel the child is not able to handle the truth.
The government and the media feel that the people can't handle the truth.
When the government and the media can't deal with the truth they makeup a fairytale.

Blogger njartist October 01, 2012 7:08 AM  

When the government lies, the people cannot judge correctly: Obama altered how the unemployment rate was calculated; everyone realized this with the first false report; yet within a month, the public discussion accepted the falsified figures as grounds for judgment.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 01, 2012 7:10 AM  

Go away you are now an idiot and everyone knows it.

Nah, I think I'll stay.

What is your name and city please.

Spectator, Idle. From the family of Ultraintelligence Spectators. Cambridge, Massachusetts, MIT AI Lab.

is that threat?

No, that was a joke about you killing my mother. This is where reading comprehension comes in handy. See bolding above about pre-assigned idiocy.

I'll get the IP.

What makes you think it's not a dynamic IP address? Or at the public library? The short, homosexual, necrophiliac bus is that way.

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 7:17 AM  

"No, that was a joke about you killing my mother. This is where reading comprehension comes in handy. See bolding above about pre-assigned idiocy."

Good you were going to get a knock at the door, glad you cleared that up. Anyone can say anything as far as I am concerned, but know one threaten my mother. And yes I can find you if I want.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 01, 2012 7:27 AM  

glad you cleared that up.

Yes, we cleared up the exact nature and breadth of your homosexual rear-entry on a dead body.

And yes I can find you if I want.

You could. But what makes you think I am not waiting for it? With a gun? That I can use. Good at using. Have used.


I'm the one who knocks.

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 7:33 AM  

hee hee. And do apologize to you for being mean come see me you got the info.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 01, 2012 7:36 AM  

That's assuming... I actually care.

Anonymous TLM October 01, 2012 7:36 AM  

And we have a bro down brewing with 2 internet tough guys. Gay.

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 7:39 AM  

"That's assuming... I actually care."

I am waiting...

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 01, 2012 7:44 AM  

And we have a bro down brewing with 2 internet tough guys. Gay.

I'm not your bro, sister.

But I can still point you in the right direction of some tampons.


I am waiting...

If you're not busy, could you be a delight and pick up some milk?

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 7:47 AM  

"And we have a bro down brewing with 2 internet tough guys. Gay." no what we got is a failure to communicate. He is afraid now. He won't tell his name only family credentials he does not understand that he is being raped by the government. I actually feel sorry for him.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 01, 2012 7:52 AM  

He is afraid now. He won't tell his name only family credentials he does not understand that he is being raped by the government.

That's because you remind me of the old pigeon lady in the park.

Family credentials? I wonder if he got the joke... Hmmmmm.

Anonymous buzzcut October 01, 2012 7:55 AM  

I was hoping we could refer to them as "tubers".

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 7:57 AM  

You have the last word, I got nothing to prove, but Vox's column still stands.

Anonymous Idle Spectator October 01, 2012 8:01 AM  

I got nothing to prove

Have. I ain't no read good either. And yet, you gave me your name without prompting.

Interesting psychology. I feel like probing this metaphoric frog leg with electrodes...

Anonymous Outlaw X October 01, 2012 8:07 AM  

Good day, hope it all works out for you.

Anonymous carnaby October 01, 2012 8:16 AM  

Truth era really are dumb. Seriously, what's the evidence that 911 was an inside job? So far everything I've seen in that regard has been jokishly stupid.

Anonymous Anonymous October 01, 2012 8:18 AM  

You forgot TWA800

Anonymous Joe Blow October 01, 2012 8:26 AM  

Truth era really are dumb. Seriously, what's the evidence that 911 was an inside job?

Building seven Google it and quit being t8upid..

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 8:51 AM  

TIN FOIL HAT!!!!

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 9:04 AM  

Building seven Google it and quit being t8upid..

When does gooleling make something true.

There is so much BS from the 911 truthers it makes it hard to believe them. There is no reason for them too be so misleading. They use the sixty minutes approach to brainwash the viewer by showing short clips that draws the individual to the wrong conclusion. In the court room this is called leading the witness. This is also done on the discovery and history channels. MPAI because they believe without questioning

Anonymous karen October 01, 2012 9:05 AM  

The truth of what you have written in this article is what ultimately turned me against most conservatives....they scream like lunatics that you can't trust the government but when you mention 9/11, they immediately tell you that you are crazy and unpatriotic if you question the government!!! I would listen to Beck and Limbaugh and all the rest and it was always the same..."the government is your enemy and cannot be trusted except in the case of 9/11" Right. I don't listen to them anymore, now I listen to my heart, which most always, leads me to the truth.

Anonymous LES October 01, 2012 9:06 AM  

Yes, most people know the government lies and puts out disinformation.
One definition of insanity is being unable to distinguish reality from fantasy.
People can't tell when the government is lying and they don't like feeling disoriented
so they ignore the news and the government. Just my guess.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 9:07 AM  

Google will always put the information they want or feel you should know first.

Anonymous Athor Pel October 01, 2012 9:09 AM  

" carnaby October 01, 2012 8:16 AM

Truth era really are dumb. Seriously, what's the evidence that 911 was an inside job? So far everything I've seen in that regard has been jokishly stupid.
"


Tangible evidence of it being an inside job will never be found. What makes people call bullshit on the official story has more to do with physics than with conspiracy.

Will you trust the laws of physics?

Anonymous Athor Pel October 01, 2012 9:13 AM  

" aero October 01, 2012 9:04 AM
...
There is so much BS from the 911 truthers it makes it hard to believe them. There is no reason for them too be so misleading. They use the sixty minutes approach to brainwash the viewer by showing short clips that draws the individual to the wrong conclusion. In the court room this is called leading the witness. This is also done on the discovery and history channels. MPAI because they believe without questioning
"



It sounds like you are referring to particular videos. Which ones and what exactly is wrong with them?

Anonymous Other Josh October 01, 2012 9:26 AM  

Good article, Vox.

Anonymous Stilicho October 01, 2012 9:27 AM  

What bothers me more than the lying about Benghazi is the pettiness, the confused nature of it, the whole amateur-hour thing.

The wicked flee when none pursueth. Or, as can be said of the scorpion, it's their nature.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 October 01, 2012 9:29 AM  

At this point, I wonder if any high official, elected or otherwise, in the Federal government is capable of telling the truth. Lies seem to have become so much a part of their regular, everyday thinking that their brain may be permanently damaged.

Anonymous Papapete October 01, 2012 9:31 AM  

The problem with the conspiracy theorists is that it assumes an omnicompetent government capable of hiding the truth from everyone except the Fearless Hero who manages to uncover the conspiracy. In reality the government is full of 2nd rate hacks who couldn't keep conspiracy buried with a steam shovel. Yes the government lies and those lies are quickly uncovered and exposed to those who don't rely on the mainstream media. I have no problem with that thesis. What I do take isssue with are the conspiracy theories that require the government to have successfully covered up the evidence. That just isn't very likely.

Secrets, especially secrets held by the government will come out. Just look at how long it took for the official narrative in the embassy attack to come completely unravelled.

Anonymous Josh October 01, 2012 9:40 AM  

But what about Bigfoot?

Brilliant article regardless.

Anonymous Daniel October 01, 2012 9:46 AM  

Last week, didn't you just complain about smart humorists who play the idiot?

Moon landings. Why'd it have to be moon landings?

Anonymous III October 01, 2012 9:47 AM  

What I don't get about Benghazi is why they bothered to lie at all.

THE POWER ELITE AND MISDIRECTION By Dennis L. Cuddy

http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis243.htm

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 9:52 AM  

"But what about Bigfoot?"

I find... city folks who've never actually spent time in the Big Woods... are the ones who are most likely to dismiss the bigfoot evidence.

This is by no means... surprising.

Its a far bigger... scarier world... than little boys in cities want to think about.

Anonymous III October 01, 2012 9:52 AM  

...the least they could do is give us a bit of Ernst Blofeld professionalism with their villainy.

You are way out of your place.

Anonymous anon123 October 01, 2012 9:55 AM  

It's no wonder gov't lies to us after reading the outbreak between Outlaw X and Idle Spectator.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 9:55 AM  

Will you trust the laws of physics?

The laws of physics are not a 100%. Using the laws of physics with inaccurate data will always be wrong.

Anonymous III October 01, 2012 9:59 AM  

The problem with the conspiracy theorists is that it assumes an omnicompetent government capable of hiding the truth from everyone except the Fearless Hero who manages to uncover the conspiracy.

Of course, it makes you FEEL better saying that. Because, after all, you think it is your government. You vote.

The Cult of Secrecy in Government and the Undermining of Democracy

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/01/22/180382/-Conversations-with-Daniel-Ellsberg-Part-3

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 9:59 AM  

There is no Bigfoot evidence, Nate.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 10:00 AM  

"There is no Bigfoot evidence, Nate."

You're either profoundly ignorant... or you have no idea what the word evidence means.

Anonymous Oh, Snap! October 01, 2012 10:01 AM  

But what about Bigfoot?

Here ya go.

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 10:04 AM  

So are you going for the "there are so many eyewitness accounts it must be true" route? That seems to be popular here in regards to alien visitation.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 10:06 AM  

"So are you going for the "there are so many eyewitness accounts it must be true" route? That seems to be popular here in regards to alien visitation."

Audio.. video... and literally mountains of reliable testimony.

remember... science knew for centuries that those reports of black and white bears that eat bamboo in asia were totally untrue.. and only crazy people believed them.

Ever seen a Panda RINO?

Also... I would remind you that it took almost a decade after the Wright Brothers flight for science to accept that something heavier than air could fly.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 10:07 AM  

It sounds like you are referring to particular videos. Which ones and what exactly is wrong with them?

All the video's pro or con use the same format of misleading the viewer. The worst thing a liar can do is change there story to another lie.
All news sources lie. This is a fair and balanced statement. They have an agenda to promote.

Anonymous Matt October 01, 2012 10:08 AM  

The government is certainly full of lying weasels, but this is textbook genetic fallacy. I know you're just trying to stir the pot, but this is a pretty goofball way of doing it.

The National Weather Service - a government agency - says the temperature in my town is 63 F. Am I a "temperaturer" if I fail to put on snow shoes and long underwear?

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 01, 2012 10:11 AM  

"Will you trust the laws of physics?"

I will trust the laws of "you can't pack three huge skyscrapers with enough demolitions explosives to bring them all down and not have anybody notice it beforehand."

If people can make an argument that either
a) somebody else was piloting the planes that struck the buildings and the known hijackers were cover for them,
or else
b) the hijackers who struck the buildings believed they were serving AQ but in reality they were being "run" from within AQ by a mole,
then I'll listen. Not that I believe those things, but they are perhaps within the realm of actual planet-earth possibility. But it is not possible here on planet earth that the WTC was collapsed using demolitions explosives, physics or no physics.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 10:12 AM  

Also... I would remind you that it took almost a decade after the Wright Brothers flight for science to accept that something heavier than air could fly.

They were flying heavier then air glider 400 years before the wright brother flew their powered aircraft. The wright brothers were crazy fool that jumped of cliffs with gliders

Anonymous III October 01, 2012 10:14 AM  

Truth era really are dumb. Seriously, what's the evidence that 911 was an inside job? So far everything I've seen in that regard has been jokishly stupid.

Watching the events unfold on national booboiesie tube from the beginning on dial emergency number 911, I was a truther before noon that day... but then again, I wasn't sitting there crapping my pants and indulging in hysterics succumbing to the predictive programming.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 10:17 AM  

"
I will trust the laws of "you can't pack three huge skyscrapers with enough demolitions explosives to bring them all down and not have anybody notice it beforehand." "

All kinds of people noticed. You just refuse to listen to them when they tell you they noticed.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 10:18 AM  

"They were flying heavier then air glider 400 years before the wright brother flew their powered aircraft. The wright brothers were crazy fool that jumped of cliffs with gliders"

Before we take this further... we're going to have to be sure you understand that then and than are actually different words.

Anonymous III October 01, 2012 10:23 AM  

All kinds of people noticed. You just refuse to listen to them when they tell you they noticed.

Fire fighters, police, rescue workers, architects, engineers, pilots, average citizen joe and suzy...

You know... nut cases like this guy:

“It just didn’t make any sense to me… When one starts using his own mind, and not what one was told, there is very little to believe in the official story.” September 5, 2007 – U.S. Navy ‘Top Gun’ pilot, Commander Ralph Kolstad

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 10:24 AM  

At the time the WTC towers started to collapse you can see parts of the tower that broke free were falling much faster then the rest of the buildings. they were falling at the speed of gravity. so WTF is the physics about WTC

Anonymous MendoScot October 01, 2012 10:25 AM  

Related: seems Fast&Furious was a little more damaging than acknowledged.

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 10:29 AM  

Hey Nate, there is only one thing in the universe less trustworthy than official government statements.

And that's bigfoot evidence.

You can go out and see a panda at the zoo whenever you want. You can't go see a bigfoot whenever you want. There wasn't an entire hobby around faking panda sightings.

I'm not sure where you live, but if you're in the northwest somewhere maybe this was the bigfoot you saw:

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_86a9d38e-f058-11e1-b794-001a4bcf887a.html

Anonymous The other skeptic October 01, 2012 10:31 AM  

At the time the WTC towers started to collapse you can see parts of the tower that broke free were falling much faster then the rest of the buildings. they were falling at the speed of gravity. so WTF is the physics about WTC

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but that is the power of Avgas.

Avgas keeps planes in the air and makes tall buildings fall down. All hail the mighty Avgas.

Anonymous CaptDMO October 01, 2012 10:31 AM  

"Shall we call them “filmers”?"

No, the only approved term for questioning ANY of the current administration is "racists".

Duh.

Anonymous The other skeptic October 01, 2012 10:33 AM  

Fifty seven previously unidentified firearms linked to Operation Fast and Furious were recovered in sites associated with murders, kidnappings, and at least two gruesome massacres.

Uh oh. I see a pattern here. 57 previously unidentified firearms, 57 states of America, it's clear.

Anonymous Porky? October 01, 2012 10:33 AM  

Five minute hate.........NOW!

Anonymous III October 01, 2012 10:35 AM  

Yes aero. And friction cause by the collapse of both towers during their free fall drop caused red hot molten steel to burn for weeks in the rubble.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 10:35 AM  

April 2007 a tanker truck carrying 8600 gallons of gasoline crashes on a bridge in San Francisco area the fire reach temperatures of 2700 F and cause the steel bridge above to collapse.
Why do steel ships have fire fighting equipment on them?

Anonymous CaptDMO October 01, 2012 10:37 AM  

Oops, OR "The 1%"

Anonymous Mrs. Pilgrim October 01, 2012 10:39 AM  

Well, seeing as this thread's becoming a general donnybrook:

I find... city folks who've never actually spent time in the Big Woods... are the ones who are most likely to dismiss the bigfoot evidence.

This is by no means... surprising.

Its a far bigger... scarier world... than little boys in cities want to think about.


We have now established that "Nate" is actually William Shatner trolling us.

If even "Nate" could be a hoax, what else do we know that isn't so???

Anonymous Mrs. Pilgrim October 01, 2012 10:40 AM  

Uh oh. I see a pattern here. 57 previously unidentified firearms, 57 states of America, it's clear.

Yes. Teresa Heinz is involved.

We must interrogate John Kerry at once.

Anonymous III October 01, 2012 10:43 AM  

You can go out and see a panda at the zoo whenever you want. You can't go see a bigfoot whenever you want. There wasn't an entire hobby around faking panda sightings.

And thousands, millions, billions, depending on your perspective, years later, we are still discovering new species every year on this planet that didn't exist until someone discovered them.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 10:45 AM  

The obvious facts less the 1/2 of a percent of the USA population knows how to fly and half of those are students. When it comes to aviation MPAI.
Most people know nothing about fire fighting. MPAI
Most people know nothing about physics. MPAI

Anonymous III October 01, 2012 10:46 AM  

Why do steel ships have fire fighting equipment on them?

Because sailors sleep on steel floors... etc., etc. Oh yeah, and all electronics are made of steel.

Anonymous The other skeptic October 01, 2012 10:49 AM  

Tanker fire destroys part of MacArthur Maze

What I can't understand is why they didn't find the third airliner? The one that crashed into building 7. Perhaps they were covering something up.

Anonymous Mrs. Pilgrim October 01, 2012 10:49 AM  

You can go out and see a panda at the zoo whenever you want. You can't go see a bigfoot whenever you want. There wasn't an entire hobby around faking panda sightings.

And since I can't see your brain whenever I want, I can safely conclude you don't have one.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 10:50 AM  

When you know how to use the autopilot anybody can fly an airplane in to a building

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 10:51 AM  

"You can go out and see a panda at the zoo whenever you want. You can't go see a bigfoot whenever you want. There wasn't an entire hobby around faking panda sightings."

WOOOOOSH!

There goes the point.

Anonymous Mrs. Pilgrim October 01, 2012 10:51 AM  

Why do steel ships have fire fighting equipment on them?

To get to the other side?

Wait, I think I'm in the wrong joke here.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 10:52 AM  

"When you know how to use the autopilot anybody can fly an airplane in to a building"

/facepalm.

So autopilot is capable of increasing the turn radius at maxium speed. Awesome. You should tell the Navy that. Why build better aircraft? Just put them on autopilot! It will keep the laws of physics from ripping the wings off the planes!

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 10:56 AM  

And since I can't see your brain whenever I want, I can safely conclude you don't have one.

Of course you can, though the aftermath would be problematic for both of us.

I'm interested to hear the number of bigfoots Nate has seen.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 01, 2012 11:01 AM  

"Wait, I think I'm in the wrong joke here."

Why are fire engines red?
1. Because roses are red, too.
2. Roses are flowers.
3. Flowers need water.
4. Fish live in water.
5. Fish have fins.
6. The Finns fought the Russians.
7. The Russians were Reds.
8. Fire engines are always rushin'.
9. So therefore, fire engines have to be Red.

Now ask me why the Trilateral Commission puts avian flu virus in all strawberry ice cream, but not in Rum Raisin.

Blogger JDC October 01, 2012 11:02 AM  

Re Bigfoot and the outdoors...

3 years ago I was hunting late in the season (muzzle loading, early Dec. in the U.P. of MI). I was way out in state land, a place I had hunted before. Late in the day I took a shot, noticed a bit of hair and one drop of blood. I decided to track for a bit. Well...I got stupid and got turned around. Pitch dark, in unfamiliar woods - absolutely lost. I had enough warm clothes to last the night, and decided to make a bed of pine branches, and cover up for the night (I also had 20 little hand warmers that I placed liberally around my body). I texted my buddy and told him I was OK, just lost - I'd wait till sun up and make my way back. Told him not to bother looking - he'd never find me. Spent the night listening to the sounds in the woods, thinking how stupid and insignificant I was in the great outdoors - and for all my skill I was definitely at the bottom of the food chain at the moment. You disrespect the outdoors and it will ass rape you to death. At that moment, I was very open to the idea that a life form that nobody has conclusively documented was kneeling in the dark laughing at my dumb ass.

Anonymous III October 01, 2012 11:03 AM  

Because, you know... watching people leap to their deaths from the WTC towers is absolute horrific truth that Bin Laden did it Bin Laden did it Bin laden did it Bin Laden did it horror Bin Laden did it...

Pavlovs dogs... ding ding. Ding ding. Ding ding.

Horror. Ding ding. Horror. Ding ding.

Predictive.

It works the same in any country.

Horror.

Anonymous Josh October 01, 2012 11:05 AM  

How do we know big foot didn't fly the planes into the wtc?

Anonymous The other skeptic October 01, 2012 11:05 AM  

The single-vehicle crash occurred on the lower roadway when the tanker, loaded with 8,600 gallons of unleaded gasoline and heading from a refinery in Benicia to a gas station on Hegenberger Road in Oakland, hit a guardrail at 3:41 a.m.

Engineers said the green steel frame of the I-580 overpass and the bolts holding the frame together began to melt and bend in the intense heat

-- and that movement pulled the roadbed off its supports.


8,600 gallons brings down an overpass. 11,500 gallons brings down WTC1. Clear. What I can't understand is why the government waited until 2007 to stage this accident and then expects us all to join the dots.

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 11:08 AM  

How do we know big foot didn't fly the planes into the wtc?

That goes against the official government story, so we have to give it credibility.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 01, 2012 11:10 AM  

I wouldn't know nuffin' 'bout no bigfoot, but I note that earlier this year were discovered in central Asia those hideous fossilized remains of those bizarre human-like creatures with the bullet-headed skulls and the horrifying cheekbones, something straight out of HP Lovecraft. The scientists didn't call them the "Abominable Snowmen" but they may as well have. The bones, IIRC, are only about 15,000 years old, which essentially makes these things our contemporaries. There's no reason to think that more of them aren't still alive up in the mountains somewhere.

Hell, maybe they found the Bering Land Bridge at the same time as Pocahontas, too.

Anonymous Mrs. Pilgrim October 01, 2012 11:10 AM  

Of course you can, though the aftermath would be problematic for both of us.

But you see, you'd try to hide it from me, I'm sure.

And anyway, it's not like we have any other evidence of its existence. I don't see why it's worth the trouble to go looking for it.

Anonymous Mrs. Pilgrim October 01, 2012 11:12 AM  

Why are fire engines red?

Scoob, you win this thread.

Now ask me why the Trilateral Commission puts avian flu virus in all strawberry ice cream, but not in Rum Raisin.

Your bluff. I callz it.

Anonymous Mrs. Pilgrim October 01, 2012 11:13 AM  

those bizarre human-like creatures with the bullet-headed skulls and the horrifying cheekbones

Dan Aykroyd?

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 11:13 AM  

So autopilot is capable of increasing the turn radius at maxium speed.YES YES YES Awesome. You should tell the Navy that. Why build better aircraft? Just put them on autopilot! It will keep the laws of physics from ripping the wings off the planes!
60 degree turn puts only 2 Gs on an airplane

Anonymous Toby Temple October 01, 2012 11:15 AM  

Bigfoot exists!

Shall we call them “filmers”?

Why not? It fits perfectly.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 11:16 AM  

correction its a 60 degree bank puts only 2 Gs on an airplane

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 01, 2012 11:17 AM  

"Scoob, you win this thread."

Can't take credit, that's an old joke that I learned as a kid.

In fact, that joke was one of the reasons I quit as a philosophy major; it makes for a better chain of reasoning than say Husserl.


Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 11:20 AM  

correction its a 60 degree bank puts only 2 Gs on an airplane
also that is if your trying to hold altitude at the same time

Anonymous Lysander Spooner October 01, 2012 11:21 AM  

"A Government of Lies" -Vox Day

"Truth is treason in an empire of lies" - Ron Paul.

What shall we call the "Filmers" ? - How about "Tubers".

What shall we call those who believe OBL was not dumped in the ocean by seal team six?

What shall we call those who believe FDR knew about the Pearl Harbor attack?

What shall we call those who believe Lincoln was a madman and started the murderous "War of Northern Agression"?

What shall we call those who believe "Feminism" is a hate movement that is bad for men, women and children?

What shall we call those who fall for the GUNverment "Truth", hook, line and sinker?

Anonymous Angel October 01, 2012 11:28 AM  

Awesome how you worked in the moon landing and then a possible explanation for everything by saying "I'm not saying.." LOL.

I am glad I am a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven. Come Lord Jesus Come!

Anonymous Lysander Spooner October 01, 2012 11:28 AM  

@ Toby

"Big Exists!"

I thought everybody knew about Gigantopithecus ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantopithecus

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 11:34 AM  

"Dan Aykroyd?"

I chuckled. I admits it.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 11:37 AM  

"60 degree turn puts only 2 Gs on an airplane"

cute. Now look at the air speed of the craft... and the trajectory.

now look at the maximum capabilities of the aircraft... which were exceeded by 20%... which doesn't happen.

Blogger James Dixon October 01, 2012 11:44 AM  

> What shall we call those who believe Lincoln was a madman and started the murderous "War of Northern Agression"?

Honest? Well, at least on the latter half. The madman part can be debated.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 11:44 AM  

"I'm interested to hear the number of bigfoots Nate has seen."

Never seen one. Heard a couple.

Blogger James Dixon October 01, 2012 11:46 AM  

> ...now look at the maximum capabilities of the aircraft... which were exceeded by 20%... which doesn't happen.

Nate, I was taught in my engineering classes that a 20% safety factor was standard design. Now, I'm not an A.E, so I can't say for certain that it's followed in that field. Maybe someone else can.

Blogger wrf3 October 01, 2012 11:51 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera October 01, 2012 11:53 AM  

Now, I am not claiming that 9/11 was actually the work of extraterrestrial aliens who first delivered Barack Obama in their secret base that was never discovered by NASA because the moon landings were faked before bringing down the three World Trade Center buildings and burning a hole in the Pentagon with one of their lunar hyper lasers.

But we can claim that this is more likely than the official story.

I wish you could follow this up with an article about female suffrage. But you'd need a bigger setup, and I'm not convinced you're ready to go out in a fireball yet.

Blogger wrf3 October 01, 2012 11:53 AM  

Nate wrote: Also... I would remind you that it took almost a decade after the Wright Brothers flight for science to accept that something heavier than air could fly.

Right. All those scientists all those years thinking that birds are lighter than air. Who knew?

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 11:53 AM  

I thought everybody knew about Gigantopithecus ?

A 10 foot, 1 ton gorilla is living right here in the United States, in almost all 50 states. Just don't ask for anything beyond really fuzzy video or eyewitness accounts that may or may not be true.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 11:54 AM  

"Nate, I was taught in my engineering classes that a 20% safety factor was standard design. Now, I'm not an A.E, so I can't say for certain that it's followed in that field. Maybe someone else can."

James... read up.

Blogger Fernando Chacon October 01, 2012 11:56 AM  

Man, this article brought everybody and their toothless granny out.

Anonymous Toby Temple October 01, 2012 12:03 PM  

I thought everybody knew about Gigantopithecus ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantopithecus


But that's Gigantopithecus. Not Bigfoot.

Anonymous Daniel October 01, 2012 12:06 PM  

People who believe the cops were involved in a cover-up of the Hillsborough soccer disaster are called "Sleuthers."

People who receive secret messages from Hemmingway's Death in the Afternoon are known as "Vermouthers."

People who are paranoid that the government is trying to extract pocket change from them personally are called "Tollboothers."

People who can't identify the racial composition of rioting mobs are called "Youthers."

People who believe that the four seasons are Winter, Football and Warm Winter are called "Duluthers."

People who suspect Arkansans of eschewing proper dental care are known as "Bucktoothers."

People who wonder if people are gradually becoming more obese are "Girthers."

People who still refer to their home gaming system as "Atari" are known as "Woolworthers."

People who prefer the television adaptation of Pride and Prejudice to the movie version are referred to as "Firthers."

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 12:08 PM  

"Just don't ask for anything beyond really fuzzy video or eyewitness accounts that may or may not be true."

So... its only real if YOU see it right?

Anonymous Nah October 01, 2012 12:13 PM  

I will trust the laws of "you can't pack three huge skyscrapers with enough demolitions explosives to bring them all down and not have anybody notice it beforehand."

Also, you might ask, if "they" need a pretext for war, so they know the attack is coming but let it happen anyway, why do the buildings have to fall down? Would we not be mad enough to kick AQ ass if they crashed jetliners into a bunch of buildings but they didn't fall down?

The Pearl Harbor analogy to 9/11 controlled demolition would be if FDR did not merely let the Jap attack happen, but put limpet mines on the bottoms of all the battleships "just to make sure".

Blogger IM2L844 October 01, 2012 12:14 PM  

Nate, as long as you keep letting the facts get in your way, you are never going to qualify for RINO's group of cool kids who rely on ridicule and satire as their primary form of argumentation.

Anonymous Mrs. Pilgrim October 01, 2012 12:15 PM  

A 10 foot, 1 ton gorilla is living right here in the United States, in almost all 50 states. Just don't ask for anything beyond really fuzzy video or eyewitness accounts that may or may not be true.

Now, now, there's no need to go bringing Michael Moore into this.

Anonymous Angel October 01, 2012 12:18 PM  

@ Aeoli agreed!

In highschool I transferred from an extremely dangerous public school to a small private one. After being in actual life threatening danger on a daily basis, the "bullies" at the private school were a joke.

One dog faced older girl decided she had it in for me and started a bunch of trouble. I called her on it and she didn't stop. She stuck something on me and I challenged her to a fight and she took off. She started in on someone else and I gave her a tongue lashing like no other and she ran again, I ended it by telling her how horrible she was but that I forgave her.

I was thanked over and over again by her endless victims. It is fun to see a bully get it in the end. None of whom had the spine to stick up to her and had never seen someone do so. But that changed.

People kept repeating it, but saying how I said "I forgive you!" They couldn't get over it and it opened conversations to the Gospel.

I think your columns are similar. I think most of us have just been so used to things being a certain way that anyone who comes in and starts fighting back and saying that things could be different is exciting to watch.

Even better if it points to the Gospel because we wrestle not against flesh and blood and all that.

The older I get, the more the Lord works on me, the less disdain I have for people. Just sorrow for the horrors they hold onto because they are lost.

Anonymous E. PERLINE October 01, 2012 12:20 PM  

There's a lot of work for our technolgy to do on this planet and we are too screwed up to do it. Why? The laws of supply and demand are beautifully self-regulating. Yet we're in a bind about obeying these laws.

Maybe our government agencies take too humongous a cut for their questionable services. Maybe our labor unions are too out of touch with the natural forces of the market. Or maybe we are too resigned to supporting the idle half of the population.

A win against the Demorats might give us some relief. Whether we can change a mind-set entirely, I don't know.



Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 12:25 PM  

Not necessarily, no.

The odds of there being a massive, undiscovered ape in North America are excessively small.

When you look at the evidence that gives a glimmer of hope to that small percentage you find out that a large portion of it was created by admitted hoaxers.

When does the red flag go up for you? You say official government statements are unreliable and then go all in on Bigfoot when people are telling you to your face that they're lying?

Blogger Bob October 01, 2012 12:25 PM  

Nate said:

"I will trust the laws of "you can't pack three huge skyscrapers with enough demolitions explosives to bring them all down and not have anybody notice it beforehand."

An organization with enough funds could easily rent floor space in the buildings... and then close down the rented areas for supposed new office construction. The noise, the dust, the inconveninece, all would be expected. The perps would have plenty of time. No one would know, now one would see.

They could pack a floor with tons of explosives if that floor - or a large section of it- had been shut down for construction of new office spaces. Using freight elevators, they could easily remove the debris from stripping the girders to attach explosives. No one would notice anything unusual about trucks exiting the lower levels of the buildings with consruction refuse, or bringing in truckloads of supposed contructionon material that was actually explosives..

Way too easy... just provide money and mix in some dedicated lunatics, or a few amoral and unethical people very hungry for money.

That doesn't explain the aircraft, or the hijackers, or how they managed to make the planes hit at just the right floor to make it all look real.

So.... has anyone researched what construction was occuring in those three buildings - at the correct floor levels - prior to 9-11?

If the "brought down by explosives" theory is ever to hold any water, you have to explain how the explosives were placed in the first place.

Some folks talk of the aircraft being "holgraphic projections". No one on planet earth has the technology necessary for such a feat - not from ground level, not from satellites in orbit. Even if the aircraft were somehow holograms, then what happened to the real aircraft? Teleported to planet Vulcan? Flown out into the ocean and crashed? No radar data on 911 shows three aircraft flying off into the ocean and disappearing off the scopes, and no one could get every radar operator in the northeast to go along with the necessary coverup.

As for building seven? We are told that falling debris from one of the towers hit and fatally damaged some of the buildings ground floor supports. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

So, until somebody digs up some real proof that those buildings were brought down by their owner for the insurance - or whatever reason - I gotta go with the crazy Muslim story.


Anonymous scoobius dubious October 01, 2012 12:26 PM  

This is being linked all over the place, but may as well link it here too for convenience, because it is a first-class rant, and disturbingly on the mark.

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2012/09/29/pat-caddell-media-have-become-an-enemy-of-the-american-people/

Top. Notch.

At 20+ minutes it's a little long, but really worth watching the whole thing. It's one-stop shopping, as it were.






Anonymous Angel October 01, 2012 12:27 PM  

@ Nate

Agreed on city folks being the ones to always say there is no way that bigfoot exists. Those same folks have a major freak out when you try to get them to try a dandelion green from your yard, but pay ten dollars a pound for it at wholefoods.
Same with people who have never spent time at sea saying there are no large creatures there either.

How many times do we have to hear "new species discovered" and that the ocean is much deeper and contains wonders we never knew about before we get that what we think right now isn't always true.

How many times does you have to skim the Bible before you says "Hmm, maybe this stuff is true...".

Next they will prove the earth really isn't round and really isn't moving....

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 12:28 PM  

"As for building seven? We are told that falling debris from one of the towers hit and fatally damaged some of the buildings ground floor supports. Sounds pretty reasonable to me."

is it reasonable that the passport of the hijacker supposedly flew through that fire... the fire that melted that steel superstructure by the way... and was found intact and unburned a few blocks away... in a matter of hours? even though the black box could not be found?

Anonymous Angel October 01, 2012 12:29 PM  

@ Bob
"Some folks talk of the aircraft being "holgraphic projections". No one on planet earth has the technology necessary for such a feat - not from ground level, not from satellites in orbit. Even if the aircraft were somehow holograms, then what happened to the real aircraft? Teleported to planet Vulcan? Flown out into the ocean and crashed? No radar data on 911 shows three aircraft flying off into the ocean and disappearing off the scopes, and no one could get every radar operator in the northeast to go along with the necessary coverup."

Clearly you have never seen some of the awesome laser shows on youtube my friend. This just made you sound so silly.....

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 12:29 PM  

"When you look at the evidence that gives a glimmer of hope to that small percentage you find out that a large portion of it was created by admitted hoaxers."

No.

No you don't find that at all. There are some hoaxers. Most of which have been outed by the bigfoot community itself. You're making a fool of yourself.

Anonymous George October 01, 2012 12:32 PM  

VD Said:

"one thing that I know is that whatever happened on 9/11, and whatever the truth of Obama’s nativity might be, the official stories are the only things we can be absolutely certain did not take place."

Wow....This is a pretty stark claim that 9/11 was not the result of hijackings by Saudi Muslim extremists. Talk about your tin-foil hat wearing extremists. Tell us VD....was it the oil companies, the government, the bond traders or simply the NeoCon hawks that decided to kill 1000s of Americans for profit.

Wait....let me get my tin foil hat before you respond so that I might better take in your signals.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 12:32 PM  

"When does the red flag go up for you? You say official government statements are unreliable and then go all in on Bigfoot when people are telling you to your face that they're lying?"

I have some general rules:

1) Whatever the government says happened... did not happen. Period. This is a steadfast law. Like gravity.

2) When millions of people experience something... then its a pretty good chance that there is a reasonable explanation. The most reasonable explanation is... there is a species that biology doesn't know about yet.

3) When in doubt... assume scientific consensus is wrong... because in a couple decades... the scientists will agree with you.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 12:34 PM  

now... some questions RINO...

How much time have you spend in the big woods? and what do you define as... "big woods"?

Anonymous Angel October 01, 2012 12:35 PM  

@ George,

For Pete's sake, it is to BLOCK signals. Get with the program!

Anonymous Stilicho October 01, 2012 12:36 PM  

Next they will prove the earth really isn't round and really isn't moving....

Speak for yourself. We've known for years that it's turtles all the way down.

Anonymous Angel October 01, 2012 12:37 PM  

RINO, none of your experience counts if at anytime you had cell phone reception and were following a trail maintained by a state, local or federal government.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 12:37 PM  

"60 degree turn puts only 2 Gs on an airplane"

cute. Now look at the air speed of the craft... and the trajectory.

now look at the maximum capabilities of the aircraft... which were exceeded by 20%... which doesn't happen.

Your grammar is better than or then mine. Before we continue your knowledge of aerodynamics needs improvement. Everything those aircraft did was below the structural limits accept for them trying to fly through buildings. Where did you come up with this 20%. BIGFOOT maybe Bigfoot in mouth

Anonymous Angel October 01, 2012 12:37 PM  

Stilicho, I am sorry, I don't get it. But really want to :)

Anonymous jack October 01, 2012 12:38 PM  

aero October 01, 2012 9:04 AM

Aero, have you seen the 'Experts Speak Out' video on the 911 event? Many engineers, architects, and scientists spoke up.

Much compelling stuff there. Like the free air burning temps. of jet fuel compared to the melting point of steel. The very well done, side by side comparison of a controlled demolition and the fall of one of the 911 buildings. Much more. Interesting was the comments about how buildings don't fall at near the acceleration of gravity without a lot of explosive help.

Don't trust me, view the video with at least some objectivity.

Blogger IM2L844 October 01, 2012 12:41 PM  

Daniel, you forgot one. People who are excessively amused by the Idiocracy are referred to as "Mirthers".

Anonymous Matt October 01, 2012 12:46 PM  

Some of you ought to watch professionals demolish a building with explosives sometime. It would be instructive.

Notice especially that they don't actually demolish the building with explosives. They spend weeks or months sawing, cutting, breaking, and weakening. At the very end, the explosives are more or a final little shove. If you wanted to explosively demolish the WTC, you'd need crews working for months, from top to bottom, doing the structural work that is the vast majority of the work of a demolition. This did not happen. The buildings were not explosively demolished.

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 12:49 PM  

"How many times do we have to hear "new species discovered" and that the ocean is much deeper and contains wonders we never knew about before we get that what we think right now isn't always true."

Everyone keeps using this argument but don't seem to realize how awful the analogy is. We're not talking about Madagascar or the Amazon or the bottom of the ocean. We're talking about Tennessee, Oregon, upstate New York, etc.

Africa has a lot of wilderness and not much civilization. There are also a small number of gorillas. But people, using their expertise, know where to find them. Poachers will find them. Local people can find them. People doing wildlife documentaries can find them.

Also Nate, a large enough portion of the evidence has been faked to put the rest into doubt. The most famous depiction of Bigfoot, the Patterson film, was a hoax. Hundreds if not thousands of "foot" casts have been faked and admittedly so. One certainly does not need to physically see something in person to accept its existence, but we shouldn't accept "I heard something" either.

Anonymous carnaby October 01, 2012 12:50 PM  

'Experts Speak Out' is a great resource! Now I know which engineers not to hire, and which professors my kids should avoid if they go to school for engineering.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 12:51 PM  

all aircraft no matter what their speed is will only put 2g loads on in a 60% bank
All aircraft are designed to withstand 3.5g loads minimum. with a 150% safety margin because atmospheric condition can cause an aircraft to exceed its design load limit

Anonymous Roundtine October 01, 2012 12:53 PM  

In reality the government is full of 2nd rate hacks who couldn't keep conspiracy buried with a steam shovel.

Any conspiracy's odds of becoming public grow with the number of participants. The best conspiracy theories involve a small number of dedicated people.

The Benghazi lie doesn't qualify a conspiracy, it's about managing the press. In America, if you can lie for one week, you can kill a lot of stories. Romney came out and slammed the administration and during the heat of the moment, they deflected attention away. Even though it was a lie, it was effective. It wasn't meant to stay a lie, especially since the truth is more effective for government policy. And even if hounded by the media or political opponents (even if a Republican said it), the people get tired of finger pointing quickly. As soon as you say oops or start saying the truth, those who point out your previous lie ending up looking bad.

It works extremely well when you opponent does it for you too. I never once heard any Bush administration official directly state that Saddam was involved in 9/11, but I heard countless Democrats say that Saddam was not part of 9/11. The opponent doth protest too much!

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 12:53 PM  

2) When millions of people experience something... then its a pretty good chance that there is a reasonable explanation. The most reasonable explanation is... there is a species that biology doesn't know about yet.

I like how MPAI mysteriously disappears in these conversations.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 12:53 PM  

" Before we continue your knowledge of aerodynamics needs improvement. Everything those aircraft did was below the structural limits accept for them trying to fly through buildings. Where did you come up with this 20%. "

I didn't. The son of the founder of Gulfstream did. By the way... you should take him seriously... because that plane that hit the towers first? He flew them for the CIA.

Anonymous Daniel October 01, 2012 12:55 PM  

Touche IM2L844!

On a serious note: how can Bigfoot possibly be "undiscovered" when thousands of people have spotted one? Unverified, maybe (whatever that would mean), but certainly not undiscovered.

Yes, I just wrote serious note and bigfoot in the same sentence. What do you expect from a mirther?

Anonymous Josh October 01, 2012 12:56 PM  

http://truthfrequencynews.com/911-airplane-affidavit-by-john-lear-son-of-learjet-inventor/

Actually, Lear jet founder's son.

Here's his testimony.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 12:56 PM  

woops.... did I say gulfstream? GAH

Its actually John Lear... of Learjet.

http://truthfrequencynews.com/911-airplane-affidavit-by-john-lear-son-of-learjet-inventor/

Anonymous carnaby October 01, 2012 1:00 PM  

Wow, that video is really dumb.

Anonymous Daniel October 01, 2012 1:04 PM  

This may be the first time that a thread here can be encapsulated into a single movie poster.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 1:04 PM  

Aero, have you seen the 'Experts Speak Out' video on the 911 event? Many engineers, architects, and scientists spoke up.

I don't believe an experts. To be an expert means your never wrong or never miss the center of your target.
I do believe in professionals. However did you ever notice how all these documentary's and 60 minutes type investigate reporters all have experts with lots of books behind giving you short sound bytes that are done in such away to make you believe the fairytale your being told

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 1:04 PM  

now... some questions RINO...

How much time have you spend in the big woods? and what do you define as... "big woods"?


If this is going to end up in some sort of hillbilly dick measuring contest, then I will concede. You have more rural cred ... and still haven't seen one! On the flip side can we eliminate all "eye witness" testimony from city and suburban people? After all, they are just city folk and yankees who don't know any better. Also, I think you claiming "millions" is an overreach that you can't support.

I sometimes to go into the "big woods" but not often. My place of employment puts me into frequent contact with forest rangers and hunters. Bigfoot has never come up in conversation.

Anonymous Stilicho October 01, 2012 1:05 PM  

Angel, this will help:

A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: “What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.” The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, “What is the tortoise standing on?” “You’re very clever, young man, very clever,” said the old lady. “But it’s turtles all the way down!”

also, see this

Anonymous JDUB October 01, 2012 1:09 PM  

Regarding the WTC collapse, are you folks saying you believe steel has to melt to cause failure?

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 1:09 PM  

Actually RINO... it can totally be supported. Consider the BFRO alone has collected over 2500... just in Oregon. Now... how many witnesses are there that have seen something but refused to come forward about it?

10 unreported for everyone 1 reported? 100 unreported for every one reported? Either way... you see where the number grows very... very quickly.

Anonymous aero October 01, 2012 1:10 PM  

I didn't. The son of the founder of Gulfstream did. By the way... you should take him seriously... because that plane that hit the towers first? He flew them for the CIA.

the operating manual for those airplanes say he is a liar. go read them then or than see that video and you'll say WTF

Anonymous MendoScot October 01, 2012 1:10 PM  

Hmm. Two allegedly different people simultaneously posting the same link. What are the odds of that? I must ignore it.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 1:10 PM  

"You have more rural cred ... and still haven't seen one! On the flip side can we eliminate all "eye witness" testimony from city and suburban people?"

No. I discount the ignorant nattering of people who think the majority of the land in the United States is populated.

Anonymous Vidad October 01, 2012 1:11 PM  

Goerge: Tell us VD....was it the oil companies, the government, the bond traders or simply the NeoCon hawks that decided to kill 1000s of Americans for profit.


My bet's on the Mossad.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 1:13 PM  

"Hmm. Two allegedly different people simultaneously posting the same link. What are the odds of that? I must ignore it."

Yeah but i totally got the name wrong... which is embarrassing... but I was trying to remember off the top of my head.

Anonymous Vidad October 01, 2012 1:13 PM  

Obviously, that should be "George" above, not "Goerge."

"Goerge" is the name of the famous Bigfoot living in the Ocala National Forest.

Anonymous paradox October 01, 2012 1:13 PM  

What's the moniker for those who believe in multiple universe theory? Multiverser, stringer, or is it schizophrenic?

Anonymous Vidad October 01, 2012 1:15 PM  

And speaking of Bigfoot, the many "Skunk Ape" sightings across rural Florida are rather interesting.

Best movie on Bigfoot: MST3k's version of "Legend of Boggy Creek II: The Legend Continues."

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 1:16 PM  

No. I discount the ignorant nattering of people who think the majority of the land in the United States is populated.

So wait, why aren't urban/suburban people being removed from the sightings sample? How do they know what a Bigfoot sounds like? How do they know what animal they saw driving in a car at night? While we're at, how do YOU know what a Bigfoot sounds like?

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 01, 2012 1:17 PM  

Regarding bigfoot, I have no opinion one way or another, but here's a chain that might establish a baseline level of plausibility (i.e. contra the argument that it's implausible)...

1. A small handful of people a long time ago (say 1880s to 1920s), back when there was a lot more wilderness in this country, have some sort of contact with a humanoid remote-wilderness-dweller that clearly isn't an actual human, but is an awful lot more like a human than it is like a bear or a gorilla.

2. They tell these stories, and in the absence of a giant global instant-reaction multi-tentacled MSM like the one we have now, the information is spread more by folk-tale and legend and word of mouth, and due to the information slippage inherent in these media (see the game "telephone"), the realistic information about "bigfoot" or "sasquatch" or whatever gets mixed in with all sorts of hooey.

3. Over time, people, being highly suggestible, hear this information and start to "think" they've seen bigfoot, too. Some of these sightings are frauds, some are honest-but-imaginary hypersuggestion, and a few are real -- but there's really no reliable way to tell which from which.

4. The creature itself, being a hominid, is a lot smarter than a bear or a gorilla -- maybe something closer to a Neanderthal or a Cro-Magnon in intelligence. So it really doesn't like humans (an obvious competitor, also maybe it's smart enough to believe humans have 'evil magic' or something) and knows enough to live in truly remote places where it is least likely to encounter people. Plus, there aren't many left, and they're good at hiding and being reclusive, which is what you'd sort of expect.

I don't care all that much one way or the other, but that at least passes a certain plausibility threshhold for me. I'd sort of expect them to live in places like northern Alberta or the Dakotas before I'd expect to see them in say Tennessee, but maybe their cold-tolerance isn't so great.

Anonymous The Gray Man October 01, 2012 1:17 PM  

The only thing I'm getting from this thread is a big conspiracy circle-jerk and the anti-conspiracists getting their jimmies rustled.

I am not a fan of the post/article, Vox. It seems almost like you wrote this just to let people's hamsters start spinning on both sides of arguments that don't even matter.

Anonymous patrick kelly October 01, 2012 1:18 PM  

(The official government story is wrong or fraudulent) != (it was an inside job by the same government.)

Proof of an "inside job" is not required for a substantial criticism of the mainstream narrative. My hunch is we, including the US gov't, were played by other actors to provoke the our subsequent reactions.


Anonymous Grendelizer October 01, 2012 1:20 PM  

Don't forget to add to the "truthers" and the "birthers" and the "filmers" the "mooners," those whack-job nuts who believe in a faked moon landing. . . . ;-)

Anonymous WaterBoy October 01, 2012 1:20 PM  

Face it...the only way some people will dismiss Bigfoot is if the government comes out and says, "Bigfoot exists".

Anonymous Josh October 01, 2012 1:22 PM  

Hmm. Two allegedly different people simultaneously posting the same link. What are the odds of that? I must ignore it.

It's obviously a conspiracy.

Anonymous Josh October 01, 2012 1:25 PM  

(The official government story is wrong or fraudulent) != (it was an inside job by the same government.)Proof of an "inside job" is not required for a substantial criticism of the mainstream narrative.

Bingo.

An example.

When people criticize the NFL for upholding the replacement ref call on the touchdown in the green bay Seattle game, they are not saying that the NFL was conspiring to cheat green bay out of a win.

Anonymous Oh, Snap! October 01, 2012 1:25 PM  

There is no Bigfoot evidence...

Here ya go.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 1:26 PM  

.50 Beowulf

300 grain hollow point... or 350 grain spitzer dangerous game load?

oh... right...

both.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 1:27 PM  

"Face it...the only way some people will dismiss Bigfoot is if the government comes out and says, "Bigfoot exists"."

Yes.

This is fact. He probably didn't even mean it as sarcasm.

Anonymous Stickwick October 01, 2012 1:27 PM  

1) Whatever the government says happened... did not happen. Period. This is a steadfast law. Like gravity.

This is unlikely to be a reliable metric on par with the law of gravity for determining the truth -- or at least determining what the truth isn't. Yes, the government has a propensity for telling lies, but that doesn't mean everything it puts forth is substantially untrue. I haven't observed government to be compulsive in its lying, merely pathological. If the truth about a situation serves the government's purposes, it has no need to lie about it.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 1:30 PM  

" I haven't observed government to be compulsive in its lying, merely pathological. If the truth about a situation serves the government's purposes, it has no need to lie about it."

This is merely hypothosesis. First you assume that such a circumstance even exists... which I doubt... since it is highly likely that the government is totally unable to recognize truth in the first place

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 1:30 PM  

Face it...the only way some people will dismiss Bigfoot is if the government comes out and says, "Bigfoot exists".

That's pretty much what it comes down to. People here dish utilize their skepticism and common sense very unevenly. Sure, the government blows and sells snake oil, but there are tons of "regular" people who sell snake oil too.

Anonymous scoobius dubious October 01, 2012 1:35 PM  

On top of all sorts of practical obvious reasons why the controlled-demo theory of the WTC sounds silly on its face, for me it also doesn't pass the "Jurassic Park" test.

In the Jurassic Park movie, a well-known dinosaur scientist is brought to a secret island, and is astounded to discover that a crazy millionaire has figured out a way to clone lots and lots of samples of lots and lots of dinosaur species -- and he, the expert, has never heard a thing about it!

Think about how small the circle is of serious dinosaur scientists, and also advanced cloning-biologists. Think of how little money academics make. Do you think there wouldn't be rumors spreading like wildfire in these small circles of broke smart people, to the effect that "Hey, some crazy rich guy is paying big bucks for our colleagues to go work on some secret project on some crazy private island!" Universities would be hemorrhaging faculty to staff this place. Everyone who's anyone would find out about it. You don't just go down to the union hall and say, "Hey, anybody up for cloning some dinosaurs on the other side of the planet?"

Same thing for the WTC -- yes, it would only be the largest, most ambitious controlled demo in the history of the industry. Plus you would need a whole extra second team of Bond-villain types to accomplish the all-but-impossible task of keeping the whole thing secret. Right in the middle of the busiest part of the busiest city in America. How many top-notch industrial demolition experts are there who also have crazy-mad secret commando ninja skillz? But none of the leading experts in the business has heard around the water cooler, "So, I hear some crazy secret organization is recruiting us guys to blow up something really, REALLY big but we have to swear not to tell anybody what it is." No one heard that rumor from their fellow experts while they were busy shaping their thermite? No one wanted to talk about it afterwards? How many different words do the Eskimos have for "omerta"?


Anonymous MendoScot October 01, 2012 1:42 PM  

It's obviously a conspiracy.

So who did you kill? It's not a conspiracy unless you killed someone.

Wait a minute - you killed Bigfoot, didn't you? Claiming to have "heard" him in order to cover your tracks.

NATE AND JOSH KILLED AND ATE BIGFOOT!

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 1:49 PM  

scoobius dubious:

If Bigfoot was real I think that would be pretty close to an accurate line of events/reasoning.

On the flip side there's another line of reasoning:
1) People make things up. It moves around as urban legends and folklore.
2) Some of these made up things hit mainstream pop culture.
3) "Sightings" increase dramatically and become increasingly consistent to fit with the pop culture representation.
4) All unknown things get pigeonholed into that phenomenon.
5) Large number of sightings give credibility to something that was never meant to be taken as true.

That's why Bigfoot doesn't pass the stench test with me even with a large number of sightings. First, earlier bigfoot sightings are different, sometimes very different, from later ones. For example, Bigfoot sightings never used to be tied with UFO activity. Only after UFO's became big did Bigfoot suddenly get tied in with them. Early Bigfoot sightings (1800's and early 1900's) often claimed the Bigfoot would make a whistling sound, then that trait disappeared. At one point Bigfoot encounters seemed to suggest it was immune to gunfire, then that disappeared too. Sometimes the casts have 4 toes, other times 5 toes. Behaviors and traits of animals tent not to change that fast. What did change? The people involved.

The idea has been set loose and now everything gets pigeonholed into it. See something moving along the side of the road? Hear a weird sound?

Anonymous Josh October 01, 2012 1:54 PM  

Wait a minute - you killed Bigfoot, didn't you? Claiming to have "heard" him in order to cover your tracks.

NATE AND JOSH KILLED AND ATE BIGFOOT!


If we did (can neither confirm nor deny), it would have only been because Bigfoot stumbled upon the fake moon landings where they planned the Kennedy assassinations.

Anonymous Stickwick October 01, 2012 2:01 PM  

This is merely hypothosesis. First you assume that such a circumstance even exists... which I doubt... since it is highly likely that the government is totally unable to recognize truth in the first place

My point is, I don't think your assertion rises above hypothesis, either. A law governing behavior is not based on doubt or likelihood. For this to be a law, you'd have to provide ample evidence that the government is totally incapable of recognizing truth and there could be no evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying this is absolutely not the case, only that I doubt it, since I have not seen evidence to support it.

So, in order for your assertion to rise above mere hypothesis, let alone be established as a law, you would have to provide evidence that the government is not pathological, but compulsive in its lying, i.e. that there are cases in which the official government story is substantially untrue even though it would have either benefited the government or not stood in the way of its purposes to have told the truth. If you've got it, I'm interested.

Anonymous Daniel October 01, 2012 2:01 PM  

The Gray Man
I am not a fan of the post/article, Vox. It seems almost like you wrote this just to let people's hamsters start spinning on both sides of arguments that don't even matter.

Did you follow Vox's "comment meltdown" in regards to his WND posts several weeks (months?) ago?

He expressed great frustration that his pointed, detailed commentary had seemingly, democratically, found itself relegated to silence: in other words, the readers were too stupid to engage with his articles, and the ones who were smart enough to grasp them didn't bother to comment.

So, he changed tactics - either as a social experiment or as an attention grab (or both). His articles now are decidedly and simultaneously more indecisive yet more declarative.

His reader comments - mostly of the idiotic sort - have exploded over there. He's playing a rhetorical game. Your experience with the actual text is the same as mine: it is less substantial than what he was doing before, and yet more inflammatory. I read them now with interest: not for the content, which, while well crafted and still of more content than the standard gibberish that passes for "opinion" these days, isn't much, but for the experiment.

It's like Hamelin, yet I suspect that it isn't being done solely in the interests of fun: the children who hear the jaunty tune are being slowly lured away from lies.

Blogger Nate October 01, 2012 2:04 PM  

"Early Bigfoot sightings (1800's and early 1900's) often claimed the Bigfoot would make a whistling sound, then that trait disappeared."

No mate. That trait did not disappear. The whistling sound is quite common and is frequently reported.

Anonymous Toby Temple October 01, 2012 2:06 PM  

F*ck Bigfoot! We should be looking for the Chupacabra!

Anonymous Clay October 01, 2012 2:19 PM  

You may have already eaten some Moo Goo Gai Sasquatch, and not even been aware of it.

Anonymous Stickwick October 01, 2012 2:19 PM  

@ Daniel:

Our host is most clever. However, my recollection is that it was the more esoteric economics columns that got the crickets chirping as opposed to Vox's columns in general. If true, then to really play this game, Vox will have to try the same sort of inflammatory rhetoric with an economics post and see if the comments likewise explode.

Anonymous David October 01, 2012 2:20 PM  

"Same thing for the WTC -- yes, it would only be the largest, most ambitious controlled demo in the history of the industry. Plus you would need a whole extra second team of Bond-villain types to accomplish the all-but-impossible task of keeping the whole thing secret. Right in the middle of the busiest part of the busiest city in America. How many top-notch industrial demolition experts are there who also have crazy-mad secret commando ninja skillz? But none of the leading experts in the business has heard around the water cooler, "So, I hear some crazy secret organization is recruiting us guys to blow up something really, REALLY big but we have to swear not to tell anybody what it is." No one heard that rumor from their fellow experts while they were busy shaping their thermite? No one wanted to talk about it afterwards? How many different words do the Eskimos have for "omerta"?"

FYI, as pointed out in the documentary below, licensed and certified architects and engineers point out that WTC7 must have been destroyed by explosives, and that laws were explicitly broken by having all the rubble cleared and rushed to China for recycling without any testing for thermite. It isn't hard to keep a secret when exposing that secret also exposes you to criminal prosecution and a jail sentence.

You haven't been hanging around the "right" water coolers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4tTMMNTisBM

Anonymous RINO October 01, 2012 2:20 PM  

VD squeezed out some additional hits and almost 200 comments on this blog too.

Anonymous tviper October 01, 2012 2:22 PM  

How about some moon landing talk? The pics of the alleged craft covered with tin foil are a real hoot.

Anonymous Nah October 01, 2012 2:24 PM  

On top of all sorts of practical obvious reasons why the controlled-demo theory of the WTC sounds silly on its face, for me it also doesn't pass the "Jurassic Park" test.

The most unbelievable aspect of Jurassic Park was not bringing the dinosaurs back to life.

The most unbelievable aspect of Jurassic Park was the Scottish billionaire who kept saying, "I've spared no expense..."

Anonymous Athor Pel October 01, 2012 2:30 PM  

"aero October 01, 2012 9:55 AM
...
The laws of physics are not a 100%. Using the laws of physics with inaccurate data will always be wrong.
"




According to the numbers given in the official story the planes were flown at speeds in excess of their designed capabilities.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/p4t/Radar_Data_Impact_Speed_Study--AA11,_UA175.pdf

So which numbers are you willing to toss out for fear of them being wrong?


Anonymous hood October 01, 2012 2:35 PM  

Nate-- What about Nessy?

Anonymous CunningDove October 01, 2012 2:40 PM  

F*ck Bigfoot! We should be looking for the Chupacabra!
I found him, and will be voting for him as a write in candidate this year.

Anonymous Angel October 01, 2012 2:40 PM  

RINO your attempts to refute Nate's arguments are ridiculous.

He never said that we should throw out Bigfoot sightings that are made by urbanites, you did.

He said those who are most sure that there is not, nor ever could be a creature like a bigfoot are those who have never even spent times in the areas reported to have such creatures. The most substantial reports I have seen (including those repeatedly made by an entire town which was covered on a nationally syndicated mythbuster type show that escapes my recollection at this time) were made by people in good standing who were in an even more remote section of their remote rural town when the sightings were made.


Second, your arguments regarding the frequency of reported sightings are ludicrous. Does rape not happen because such a small percentage of them are ever reported? How about incest? How about domestic violence or child abuse? Or do those things not happen at all because of there anytime being false claims?

Your logic fails that bigfoot does not exist because some of the claimed sightings were hoaxes.

And as for where you refuted what I said, please show me evidence that we have categorized and discovered every species alive please? As I stated, new species are discovered all the time.

While a pygmy tribesman may be willing to stake his life on the fact that he has never seen a small, handheld device that plays moving pictures and allows you to speak to people far away.....he would be dead wrong.

Just because you don't know doesn't mean it isn't true.

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