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Sunday, November 11, 2012

A cogent observation

It's disappointing, but I think Glenn Reynolds has the right of it"[I]n real life Joss Whedon would have been on the side of the Alliance."

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60 Comments:

Blogger jamsco November 11, 2012 3:12 PM  

Vox - have you watched Firefly? Do you recommend it?

Blogger Spacebunny November 11, 2012 3:18 PM  

We have watched it many times. It is awesome.

Anonymous realmatt November 11, 2012 3:20 PM  

Every episode and the movie were great.

Blogger Rantor November 11, 2012 3:22 PM  

Jamsco, Firefly is great, even gots a preacher on board. Of course there is a high end prostitute too, so you may want to watch it without little kids around.

I recommend you watch the TV series, then the movie. Also you'll never view the TSA the same way again, once you know what

" two by two with hands of blue" is all about.

Anonymous Nihilus November 11, 2012 3:22 PM  

BrownCoats united.

Anonymous Battlefrog November 11, 2012 3:24 PM  

Everything about Firefly was amazing except for River. I really wish they cast her better. That chick was obnoxious.

Anonymous Josh November 11, 2012 3:29 PM  

Firefly was awesome. So was Serenity.

Anonymous carnaby November 11, 2012 3:34 PM  

I liked how they cast River. I liked it all. Reynolds is right, and it is sad.

Anonymous Paul Revere November 11, 2012 3:41 PM  

Texas and Louisiana have both filed petitions to withdraw (secede) from the USA. Please sign and share these with everyone you know. Spread the word people!

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-louisiana-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/1wrvtngl

Anonymous realmatt November 11, 2012 3:49 PM  

Only 25,000 signatures to secede? huh?

Anonymous zeonxavier November 11, 2012 3:50 PM  

The last time one of those whitehouse.gov petitions had the opportunity to leave egg on the face of this administration, it mysteriously dropped off the site just before it had enough signatures.

Don't get your hopes up.

Anonymous The other skeptic November 11, 2012 4:00 PM  

It seems to me that the more important question is:

Just what is the Mocha Messiah's self-destruct button? His eschaton, if you will.

If we knew his secret, we would have power over him :-)

Anonymous Stickwick November 11, 2012 4:12 PM  

@ jamsco: You will understand just how good Firefly is when you get to the end of the episode "The Train Job." Anyone who's seen it knows what I'm talking about.

I liked how they cast River. I liked it all. Reynolds is right, and it is sad.

River irked me until I watched Serenity, and then I started to like her. The one who will irk me forever is the prostitute. Cannot stand her.

Whedon is one confusing guy. He makes stuff like Firefly and wrote the screenplay for The Avengers in which the line "There's only one God" is spoken without any hint of sarcasm or silliness. But the crap he says about politics ... hate to say it, but Reynolds is right.

Anonymous Salt November 11, 2012 4:13 PM  

OT -

Here's a little patriotism for you... KISS in Iraq.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 November 11, 2012 4:17 PM  

Of course Joss Whedon would be on the side of the Alliance. He's an atheist feminist. What other option is there for him?

Anonymous Jimmydom November 11, 2012 4:21 PM  

*Whedon is one confusing guy. He makes stuff like Firefly and wrote the screenplay for The Avengers in which the line "There's only one God" is spoken without any hint of sarcasm or silliness. But the crap he says about politics ... hate to say it, but Reynolds is right. *

That is what makes Wheadon an excellent writer. He is able to understand different points of view and project those onto a character. The disappointing thing isn't that he can do that but still be a collectivist but that he understands libertarianism sells and is still a collectivist.

As far as I know he hasn't written a story with a protagonist attempting to collectivize the world and his struggles against the antagonist who want to be free. I suspect that crap wouldn't sell.

Anonymous realmatt November 11, 2012 4:42 PM  

It is strange that he managed to keep his lame political beliefs out of his work, especially considering how many of his stupid fans are right alongside him.

As for being a collectivist who knows libertarianism sells, they don't think they're collectivists. They think they're individualist bad boys rebelling against the big bad. They honestly believe they're trailblazers.

They think what they fight for is freedom. They have no clue.

Anonymous FP November 11, 2012 4:43 PM  

"You will understand just how good Firefly is when you get to the end of the episode "The Train Job.""

"Darn."

I wasn't a fan at first of "cowboys in space" but the show has grown on me over the years.

Two of my favorite lines from the show:

"May have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one."

"Looks like we got here just in the nick of time. Whats that make us?
Big damn heroes sir.
Ain't we just."

There are some you tube videos out there with compilations of some of the best lines.

Anonymous DaveD November 11, 2012 4:45 PM  

Browncoat for life.

Yes, Whedon would be with the Alliance.

Fillon is now in the show "Castle" which, in addition to him, has at least on writer from Firefly. The show is LITTERED with Firefly/Serenity references. Fillon's character even dresses up as a "space cowboy" for a Halloween episode..in Mal's outfit.

DD

Anonymous Daniel November 11, 2012 4:56 PM  

There is little to no correlation between a writer's skill and literary viewpoint and his personal politics.

The fact is that every act of fiction writing is a libertarian act. Because writing anything coherent can only be accomplished by one person, or at most one person and a partner, even the biggest communist author is going to understand the ideal of the singular voice.

Joss Whedon can't write atheistic fiction any more effectively than H.P. Lovecraft could: they are, after all, the creator gods of their unique literary universes. Godhood and liberty are self-evident in even the greatest attempts at collectivist themes.

It is sort of a twist on the "there are no atheists in foxholes" notion. There aren't any in fiction, either. Aldous Huxley, George Orwell, Lovecraft, Asimov, Clarke and so on: there are hundreds of atheist writers...

...the dirty secret they would never admit to is that even they, at the height of their powers, couldn't ever get around the contradiction that each man, out of nothing, wrote entire worlds into existence.

Anonymous outlaw x November 11, 2012 5:01 PM  

Firefly series is free to watch if you are a Netflix member.

Anonymous Noah B. November 11, 2012 5:03 PM  

"Only 25,000 signatures to secede? huh?"

It sounds like something out of a Monty Python skit.

Secession?? So you think you can do a BETTER JOB than we're doing? You want to secede -- FROM THE UNION??? You don't like the way WE'RE running things?

Right then, off you go.

Anonymous WaterBoy November 11, 2012 5:03 PM  

Salt, thanks for that link.

Anonymous Equestrian025 November 11, 2012 5:42 PM  

The central thing you must understand about Joss Wheaton is that he was raised a devout feminist. Therefore, whatever natural talents or temperament the man has, they always have to bend towards his mother’s slave morality. This why his best work is about men, or all his attempts to write about women action stars keep falling back towards soft-core porn.

Anonymous T14 November 11, 2012 6:11 PM  

"'There's only one God' is spoken without any hint of sarcasm or silliness."

If memory serves, this line is spoken to a god.

Anonymous rycamor November 11, 2012 6:13 PM  

Daniel November 11, 2012 4:56 PM

There is little to no correlation between a writer's skill and literary viewpoint and his personal politics.


The problem is, so many writers get a big ego after their first success and start turning their work into a soapbox. At least Whedon knows to concentrate on writing a story rather than selling a viewpoint.

And yes, I think some of it is obviously very intentional. He knows where the money is, and it's not in selling "Where is your God now?" stories to sour atheists.

Anonymous carnaby November 11, 2012 6:14 PM  

The one who will irk me forever is the prostitute. Cannot stand her.

I could stand to see a little more...

Anonymous T14 November 11, 2012 6:20 PM  

And it was Nathan Fillion who was the most poorly cast. I like the guy and he was great in "Dr. Horrible" but he didn't fit the role. Dream world would have been Russell Crowe or the guy who played Horatio Hornblower.

Anonymous Roundtine November 11, 2012 6:21 PM  

He has a girl's name. I thought that was supposed to make guys tough.

Re: petitions: why not have a ballot referendum on secession? How many signatures do you need in your state to get it on the ballot? Now is the time to capitalize on voter anger. Quebec and Catalonia have voted on secession.

Anonymous The Lightworker November 11, 2012 6:31 PM  

"If memory serves, this line is spoken to a god."

Memory doesn't serve.

Anonymous Daniel November 11, 2012 6:38 PM  

The problem is, so many writers get a big ego after their first success and start turning their work into a soapbox.

Yup. This exactly.

The minute you confuse good storytelling for having a "responsibility for the listener/reader" is the minute the suckage begins.

Heck, L. Ron Hubbard wrote some fine stories back before he became the zombie sea captain of the damned. Slaves of Sleep is a fun book, if you like adventures. Of course, that was written back before he started his real moneymaker.

Anonymous rycamor November 11, 2012 6:48 PM  

carnaby November 11, 2012 6:14 PM

The one who will irk me forever is the prostitute. Cannot stand her.

I could stand to see a little more...


Aside from the obvious reasons why, Whedon portrayed the conflicts between her nature and her attraction to the captain quite well. He was fairly on-the-money about how a classic alpha male would not leap at the chance to commit to a lifelong slut, no matter how beautiful, and Inara's character understands this interplay and thus never oversteps her bounds. Too many modern feminist/gamma-written stories would have the captain completely discard any thoughts of her past, become her instant white knight, and even make up some B.S. about how turned on he is by a strong woman who knows what she wants and isn't ashamed to go for it. Or even worse, they would have the woman "take control" of the romance and teach this backwards-thinking conventional male what he's really missing.

Anonymous rycamor November 11, 2012 7:00 PM  

T14 November 11, 2012 6:20 PM

And it was Nathan Fillion who was the most poorly cast. I like the guy and he was great in "Dr. Horrible" but he didn't fit the role. Dream world would have been Russell Crowe or the guy who played Horatio Hornblower.


I didn't see it that way. Maybe I'm more Old School, but I don't think the male hero always has to be amped-up macho. Fillion played it very low-key, and slightly like Jimmy Stewart, which I thought was a good choice. Notice he hardly ever raises his voice, keeps his composure beyond all the other characters, but still manages to be a wisecrack. Of course, I've never seen Fillion in anything else. It was weird seeing him in an interview, because his own personality is just barely this side of effeminate.

Anonymous yomama November 11, 2012 7:07 PM  

carnaby November 11, 2012 6:14 PM
The one who will irk me forever is the prostitute. Cannot stand her.

I could stand to see a little more...


I hear there's a HBO show called Homeland that features her intimatesly.

Anonymous T14 November 11, 2012 7:13 PM  

Fillion's acting was fine...I just wasn't fond of his look. On the other hand, Adam Baldwin was incredible, and it is a shame he doesn't get more. work. Also loved Alan Tudyk as "Wash." But he just scored a big role in "Wreck-It Ralph" so I won't shed a tear for him. Also great in "Tucker and Dale vs. Evil."

Anonymous TheExpat November 11, 2012 7:28 PM  

I love Firefly/Serenity and many of Joss Whedon's other works. However, after learning of his collectivist bent and his anti-capitalist rants, I decided that I no longer need to support him in a capitalistic manner. La Merica FTW.


Re: Succession petitions - Register and sign something that will accomplish nothing other than let the government know exactly who they should watch more closely? Heh.

Anonymous rycamor November 11, 2012 7:29 PM  

Gotta agree about Baldwin and Tudyk. In fact, it was even odder seeing Baldwin in an interview. Almost a shy, retiring kind of guy.

"Tucker and Dale vs. Evil" was one of the funniest films in awhile.

Anonymous Matt November 11, 2012 7:29 PM  

If memory serves, this line is spoken to a god.

Scarlett Johanson's not that hot.

(Thor isn't on screen at that point, and his character is technically just a space alien.)

Really I was pretty pleasantly gobsmacked that the line found itself in a mainstream film, and even more so about the World's Least Subtle Visual Metaphor a few minutes later when the good cap'n jumps in front of the German guy standing up to Loki.

Anonymous Orion November 11, 2012 7:31 PM  

Fillion also had a minor role in "Blast from the Past". I agree on the low key bit. I think Fillion did a excellent job. "Shiny" was dropped as a comment by his Castle character in at least two episodes I think. Didn't see the mention of it here yet but the cast of Firefly is on the Science Channel tonight reminiecsing about the show in an interview called "Bown Coats Unite" following a marathon of all ten episodes.

Anonymous Josh November 11, 2012 7:48 PM  

Fillion is perfect as the Cap'n

Anonymous David November 11, 2012 8:09 PM  

I aim to misbehave.

Anonymous paradox November 11, 2012 8:22 PM  

I vote for Nathan Fillion, as the Han Solo in Star Wars Episode 7.

Anonymous Kyle In Japan November 11, 2012 9:04 PM  

Firefly and Serenity were great. I never liked the "Wild West in Space" concept, so I most enjoyed the episodes that got away from that and felt like more familiar sci-fi.

Anonymous Nihilus November 11, 2012 9:36 PM  

Ever notice how everyone spoke Mandarin? (Swearing, idioms.)

Anonymous JI November 11, 2012 10:45 PM  

Fillion was the perfect choice for Malcolm. Gosh that was a great show. I'm a fan of good sci-fi, not stupid stuff, and Firefly just grabbed my heart and I fell in love with it.

What do you mean Joss Whedon would be Alliance? That does not sound at all good!

Anonymous The CronoLink November 11, 2012 11:15 PM  

I have never watched Firefly but hear it being mentioned in lots of places, so I still don't understand if it's quite enjoyable why was it cancelled. Something about the series didn't appealed to a significant audience?

Anonymous dh November 12, 2012 12:28 AM  

> I have never watched Firefly but hear it being mentioned in lots of places, so I still don't
> understand if it's quite enjoyable why was it cancelled. Something about the series didn't appealed
> to a significant audience?

High production costs, low audience. Plus, bad management. Had good character development and a nice arc, with lots of room to follow the story. But Whedon isn't known for making money making shows.

As far the show goes, there is very little reason presented in the series (as opposed to the movie) that would actually demonstrate why the Alliance isn't the best choice. Rebels aren't always on the right side. We are trained to like the former rebels because they are the point of view characters. But really there is thin gruel on why the alliance is so bad, until the movie comes along and wraps the whole story up.

Blogger Jamie-R November 12, 2012 12:30 AM  

I read quotes from his video, didn't watch it. Eh, you have to be a homo in Hollywood as a teen actor, and as an adult you have to be a socialist that tells real Americans they ain't shit but a bunch of dumb hacks. Quite a swell guy how he painted half of the electorate. What a piece of shit, if I see his name with a film, I'll know what artistic expressions to expect in his work.

Anonymous Sheila November 12, 2012 1:01 AM  

Our son introduced us to Firefly a couple of years ago. My husband and I love it. We watched the 10th anniversary roundtable tonight. Many of the commenters at Ace note that had the show continued, Whedon's liberalism would have destroyed it. They attribute its libertarian bent to Tim Minnear. Loved Nathan Fillion as Mal, but River drove me crazy. It was really strange watching the roundtable, with Summer Glau (actress who played River) all made up and the one who played Inara short-haired and bare-faced.

Anonymous Anonymous November 12, 2012 1:14 AM  

I liked the TV show Angel, which was a spin off from Buffy, and apparently Tim Minear had more to do with this show than Whedon. I've also heard rumors that Minear had more to do with Firefly than Whedon. Not sure if thats true but I wouldn't be surprised.

Firefly was cancelled because the execs screwed around with it and no one had a chance to see it on TV, everyone seems to have found it online.

The big reason for the Brown Coats v the Alliance was the same as the Civil War. Brown Coats want to be left alone but Alliance want to control everything.

- Tom White

Blogger James Dixon November 12, 2012 8:31 AM  

> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov

So, do you ask your teacher for permission to skip their class?

Blogger Jonnelle November 12, 2012 8:41 AM  

The line from the Avengers "There is only one God and I'm pretty sure He doesn't dress like that" was said by Captain America.

The actor, incidentally, is a Buddhist.

Blogger JDC November 12, 2012 1:06 PM  

At least the left can't take the sky from me. Or maybe they can?

Blogger James Dixon November 12, 2012 2:25 PM  

> At least the left can't take the sky from me. Or maybe they can?

The left never wants to "take" anything from us. Only to tax it at 150% of value.

Anonymous Stickwick November 12, 2012 3:01 PM  

At least the left can't take the sky from me. Or maybe they can?

They only want to redistribute it in a more equitable way. At some point, you've had enough sky.

Anonymous Sam Scott November 12, 2012 4:14 PM  

As a lifelong "Buffy" fan who runs a major fansite when I'm not commenting here, I'm somewhat disappointed in the thought that Whedon would be this way...

Anonymous Sam Scott November 12, 2012 4:19 PM  

In that respect, I'm curious what Vox and SB -- or anyone else! -- thought of "Buffy" and "Angel"? :)

Anonymous Stilicho November 12, 2012 7:49 PM  

As far the show goes, there is very little reason presented in the series (as opposed to the movie) that would actually demonstrate why the Alliance isn't the best choice. Rebels aren't always on the right side. We are trained to like the former rebels because they are the point of view characters. But really there is thin gruel on why the alliance is so bad, until the movie comes along and wraps the whole story up.

Oh just admit it: you cheered for the Alliance.

Anonymous Tom White November 13, 2012 5:14 AM  

"In that respect, I'm curious what Vox and SB -- or anyone else! -- thought of "Buffy" and "Angel"? :)"

Buffy was ok. I was in school when it started and watched the first three seasons then I became bored with it. Seems a little campy now.

I found Angel to be the superior show and especially like the last episode which summed up the whole series so well.

Anonymous Tom White November 13, 2012 5:17 AM  

"As far the show goes, there is very little reason presented in the series (as opposed to the movie) that would actually demonstrate why the Alliance isn't the best choice. Rebels aren't always on the right side. We are trained to like the former rebels because they are the point of view characters. But really there is thin gruel on why the alliance is so bad, until the movie comes along and wraps the whole story up."

I thought it was kind of obvious. The Alliance are liberals...well meaning but want to run everyone's life.

The Brown Coats just want to run their own damned lives...

And it makes you wonder whether the show wasn't cancelled because it was giving people the wrong idea...

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