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Thursday, November 08, 2012

Hope vs Math

Pat Buchanan appeared inclined to bet on the latter in his pre-election column:
[W]hoever wins today, it is hard to be sanguine about the future.  The demographic and economic realities do not permit it.

Consider. Between 1946 and 1964, 79 million babies were born – the largest, best-educated and most successful generation in our history. Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, both born in 1946, were in that first class of baby boomers.

The problem.  Assume that 75 million of these 79 million boomers survive to age 66. This means that from this year through 2030, an average of nearly 4 million boomers will be retiring every year. This translates into some 11,000 boomers becoming eligible for Medicare and Social Security every single day for the next 18 years.  Add in immigrants in that same age category and the fact that baby boomers live longer than the Greatest Generation or Silent Generation seniors, and you have an immense and unavoidable increase coming in expenditures for our largest entitlement programs....

With government in the U.S. at all levels consuming 40 percent of gross domestic product, and taxes 30 percent, taxes will have to rise and government spending be controlled or cut. The alternative is to destroy the debt by depreciating the dollars in which it is denominated – i.e., by Fed-induced inflation.  But you can only rob your creditors once. After that, they never trust you again.

There is another social development rarely discussed.  The workers who are replacing retiring baby boomers in the labor force are increasingly minorities.  Black folks and Hispanics alone account now for 30 percent of the population – and rising rapidly.  Yet these two minorities have high-school dropout rates of up to 50 percent in many cities, and many who do graduate have math, reading and science scores at seventh-, eighth- and ninth-grade levels.

Can their contributions to an advanced economy be as great as were those of baby boomers of the ’60s and ’70s, whose SAT scores were among the highest we ever recorded? U.S. scores in global competition have been plummeting toward Third World levels.
Let's just say that I expect the de facto social policy of seeking to replace white male Anglo-Saxon Protestant products of intact families with a labor force that increasingly consists of uneducated, illegitimate, irreligious female people of color to work even less effectively than the Roman attempt to replace Roman citizens with German barbarians in the legions.

The bizarre thing is that it is the numerate and historically aware portion of the population that is decried as benighted, outdated, and anti-science by the bien pensantry.  They are betting on hope and belief in the inevitability of "progress" against mere population demographics and math.  In the immortal words of Pepper Brooks: "It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em."

Labels:

100 Comments:

Anonymous RedJack November 08, 2012 6:56 AM  

Magical thinking. Most know this will end badly, but even those in power will not face that fact because of their ideals.

IT is a tenet of their faith that everyone is replaceable with anyone.

Anonymous The other skeptic November 08, 2012 7:03 AM  

Hmmm, 2030?

Things should be obviously going to shit before that. The failure cascade is going to be interesting, as well, when there are no longer smart people at the helm. No, I am not referring to the presidency.

Anonymous The other skeptic November 08, 2012 7:05 AM  


Magical thinking. Most know this will end badly, but even those in power will not face that fact because of their ideals.


Well, those in power expect to survive and benefit from the situation. After all, they do not see themselves as the French Nobility.

Anonymous Steve Canyon November 08, 2012 7:17 AM  

I imagine we'll see a scenario much like Latin America or the Indian caste system where we'll have a small group of elites that own 99% of everything, a token bureaucratic class, and the rest comprised of the unwashed untouchable masses who are little more able than to sell stuff at the flea market, on the side of the road, and work as unskilled laborers.

The middle class, if they're not looted by taxation will wind up much like Hanson in central California--looted by the "barbaric" types now the majority in cities like Detroit and L.A.

Blogger IM2L844 November 08, 2012 7:25 AM  

Things should be obviously going to shit before that.

I predict 2015 will be the year of "It's nobody's fault. After all, who could have seen something like this coming?"

Anonymous Cinco November 08, 2012 7:37 AM  

You know the sadly ironic thing in this demographic debate is that if abortion had always been illegal, we as a country would have arrived at this cliff much, much sooner.

It's probably too late, but it is important to note that we ensure fewer and fewer successful people by taxing them and regulating them at increasingly higher rates. We subsidize more and more poor people with entitlements and social programs. Then we sit back wonder why our country is being over run with immigrants our birth rates collapse.

That is all it really boils down to, and it is so simple...

Anonymous DT November 08, 2012 7:41 AM  

But...but...those immigrants are doing the jobs Americans don't want to do! And they're Catholics. They'll vote conservative RealSoonNow(TM).

And we can retire the baby boomers by making the rich pay their fair share. And what about all those women graduating with college degrees? Why aren't you counting the economic contributions they will be making with feminist studies degrees and teaching credentials?

Anonymous asdf November 08, 2012 7:51 AM  

Cinco,

If we are going to go down the road that abortion kills more black babies then white ones we might as well go down the road of just gassing living people.

Once you get it in your head that life is worthless and all that matters is demographics matters there is no end to it.

The solution begins with keeping people out and paying those here to leave. Genocide (XX million aborted and counting) isn't the answer.

Anonymous Roundtine November 08, 2012 8:09 AM  

But you can only rob your creditors once. After that, they never trust you again.

Spoken like a man who has never been in the sovereign bond market. They will line up around the block to be fleeced again! If a country went bankrupt yesterday, it's a great credit risk.......no debt!

Anonymous Rally November 08, 2012 8:09 AM  

The answer to the problem is simple: robots

1. They are replacing the less skilled already in the workforce, and as they improve they will increasingly replace the higher skilled
2. They will keep the uneducated and unemployable in check. The technology for this is being tested in the middle east.

Now someone has to step forward to be John Connor.

Anonymous Roundtine November 08, 2012 8:11 AM  

asdf,

There is also the woman who pays drug users to get hysterectomies. I think she only gives them about $500 or $1000, and she has plenty of takers.

Anonymous anon123 November 08, 2012 8:13 AM  

Cotton: So don't go anywhere, folks. The Schadenfreude is about to begin.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation (Ben) November 08, 2012 8:23 AM  

Vox, blacks and hispanics are going to make America great again. The reason why blacks and hispanics aren't doing well in school is because it's culturally biased. Blacks should be taught the black science of the great African scientists. Ditto for the hispanics.

Vox is a racisssssssssss!!!!!!

Anonymous Stilicho November 08, 2012 8:50 AM  

The Gop's only chance of survival is to become the party of white people. I expect that they will instead choose to move even further left in an effort to buy more welfare votes than the Donks.

Anonymous JW November 08, 2012 8:55 AM  

"Rally November 08, 2012 8:09 AM The answer to the problem is simple: robots"

You are more right than you may realise. Earlier this am on one of the channels I saw a robot playing ping-pong against a human player. The robot played very well.


Anonymous Crude November 08, 2012 8:56 AM  

If there's one thing I'll say, it's that blacks and hispanics really don't seem like they should be lumped together so quickly. They have different cultures, different problems, and different attitudes.

I live in an area that's seen a tremendous amount of hispanic immigration over the years - 35% now, I think, and this happened within the span of a decade. One thing I noticed is that hispanics are absolutely dedicated to opening small businesses - mini-marts, hair salons, restaurants, and more are all over the place now, a swarm of small businesses. I've never seen or heard about this happening with black communities.

Now, that also happened alongside a lot of crime, illegal immigration, and pretty well a refusal to speak english. But that willingness to throw themselves into business seems culturally ingrained and is commendable in and of itself.

Anonymous WinstonWebb November 08, 2012 9:02 AM  

hispanics are absolutely dedicated to opening small businesses

So are blacks.
As I understand it, impromptu casinos and pocket pharmacies are very popular.

Anonymous The Lightworker November 08, 2012 9:04 AM  

Stilicho: "The Gop's only chance of survival is to become the party of white people."

That's certainly its only chance of deserving to survive.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan November 08, 2012 9:08 AM  

Cinco says.. "You know the sadly ironic thing in this demographic debate is that if abortion had always been illegal, we as a country would have arrived at this cliff much, much sooner."

You'd have to make several assumptions for this to be true...

1) wars would not wipe out millions
2) pandemics would not ravage humanity
3) that all other variables remain static

etc.


Blogger LP 999/Eliza November 08, 2012 9:17 AM  

I say with great, I don't know, a mix of excitement and trepidation that math, reality and the truth always win out...The question will be can a country accept all that or become successful again? I greatly doubt it.

Anonymous DonReynolds November 08, 2012 9:25 AM  

There is a useful expression passed down to my generation from Ireland...

"Ahhhh...but they will miss us when we are gone."

This is the proper reply to the news that someone hates you, a common but not so serious problem among the Irish.

In the meantime, the Turd Worlders will envy, despise and fear us as masters of this continent until they can muster the numbers and the gumption to take us on directly. Thinking that whitey is weak may make some act boldly but enough have already seen how this ends.

Anonymous RedJack November 08, 2012 9:26 AM  

Automation is going to make the situation worse.

Simply put, you need to have something for the low IQ people to do. Right now there isn't enough jobs that a person with an IQ below 95 can do and support themselves.

Blogger IM2L844 November 08, 2012 9:27 AM  

"The Gop's only chance of survival is to become the party of white people."

Their downfall has been the result of siding with progressives in the wholesale rejection of a growing segment's desire to return to their libertarian leaning paleoconservative roots on many issues. A strong enough shock to the system could significantly re-align the demographics. Superimposed austerity can be a powerful game changer and it's coming to a neighborhood near you soon.

Anonymous Mr. Nightstick November 08, 2012 9:28 AM  

I think the theory of white man faces being replaced by brown female faces is flawed. At the company I work at, its white male faces being replaced by Indian faces and these Indians are the creme of the crop. Now of course, they are non-Americans and vote like non-Americans but they are very competent in their jobs.

Anonymous Max November 08, 2012 9:28 AM  

We really need a war. Something massive.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza November 08, 2012 9:28 AM  

OT: stupid rumors

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83550.html?hp=t1_3

Anonymous DrTorch November 08, 2012 9:32 AM  

replace white male Anglo-Saxon Protestant products of intact families with a labor force that increasingly consists of uneducated, illegitimate, irreligious female people of color

Did you ever see the SyFy show "Eureka"? Proof that most of the brilliant, innovative scientists and engineers are minority women (taking care of their gamma males in their spare time). We'll all be fine.

Blogger AdognamedOp November 08, 2012 9:36 AM  

Well, if left with the choice, I'd rather my landscaping be done by warband offspring than unqualified, sun worshippin, heart surgeons.

Pepper Brooks? Are you kidding? Punch u in daface

Anonymous a good ROI November 08, 2012 9:36 AM  

"The bizarre thing is that it is the numerate and historically aware portion of the population that is decried as benighted, outdated, and anti-science by the bien pensantry."

Don't forget, we are also "misogynistic".

Blogger JDC November 08, 2012 9:37 AM  

So are blacks. As I understand it, impromptu casinos and pocket pharmacies are very popular.

Don't forget record labels. Re population trends - Add to the current trends that 41% of births today are to unmarried women - the rise in Hispanic, Black and other minorities - makes me wonder if the Goth's wouldn't be preferable to what we have in store for us in the upcoming years.

Anonymous DonReynolds November 08, 2012 9:37 AM  

People who honestly believe in the inevitability of demographics seem to fall into the trap of egalitarian thinking that all people are more or less (or absolutely) equal in all ways. Of course, this is hogwash and baloney.

If by magic, all of the whites in the USA were suddenly replaced by blacks, or hispanics, or asians.....not even thinking of importing fresh ones from abroad, just more of what is already here.....would this country continue as before? Of course not. Nobody would believe that.

The USA is a great country because of the people who live there. The same with Japan. The same with Germany. Otherwise, the only differences between one land and another is trees, grass, dirt and rocks. It is the people who make a place great and when those people are transplanted (like across an ocean) they continue in the ways they have known before. Bring primative savages to a deserted island and they will live like savages. There is nothing magical or transformative about a boat ride or a long walk behind a wagon and team.

But if you believe all people are the same then you think one tatter peeler is pretty much as good as another, then it does not matter who does the peeling.

Anonymous DrTorch November 08, 2012 9:38 AM  

Automation is going to make the situation worse.

Simply put, you need to have something for the low IQ people to do. Right now there isn't enough jobs that a person with an IQ below 95 can do and support themselves.


Yes and no. Support themselves? Most certainly.

Live an ever-increasing life of affluence, like they do on TV? Of course not.

Those seeds of discontent and envy have been devastating.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza November 08, 2012 9:41 AM  

Even Der Spiegel gets it: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/obama-victory-a-testament-to-growing-diversity-in-united-states-a-866090.html

Anonymous zen0 November 08, 2012 9:44 AM  

If the U.S slashed its military budget by 50%, it would still spend 42% more than Russian and China combined. Throw in the France and U.K budget and it would still be more.

Anonymous Cinco November 08, 2012 9:45 AM  

@asdf

"Once you get it in your head that life is worthless and all that matters is demographics matters there is no end to it."

I think no such thing. That is why I said "sadly ironic thing..."

But we do have to face facts. On average, the IQ of a black or Mexican is in the mid to high 80's, the average IQ of a white person is 103. It stands to reason that if stupid people vote, and there are more stupid people than smart people, we can expect stupidity to win out.

I am not in any way advocating genocide or abortion as the solution to the problem. The solution is to end the welfare system; however, ending the welfare system through the ballot box appears to be impossible.

I now believe that our only alternative is to wait for the inevitable default. I would like to say that that won't result in genocide, but I am loathe to make a prediction on a collapse of the reserve currency, which has never really happened before.

Anonymous DonReynolds November 08, 2012 9:56 AM  

asdf...."Once you get it in your head that life is worthless and all that matters is demographics matters there is no end to it."

I used to ask college students the same question and was always surprised by the answers I got: "In war, how many of the enemy are you willing to kill to save just one of your own people?" Many said one. The males were more likely to play with a favorable ratio....2 or 3 or 4. A few were unwilling to even admit to even one. The correct answer: ALL of them.

Not all life has value. Some ARE worthless and some have negative worth. And some lives are of great value. Does that bother you? It is a competitive world and I would have my tribe survive at the expense of every other tribe in the world. Yes. I can afford to be honest.


Anonymous JartStar November 08, 2012 10:00 AM  

The demographics support a collapse, the math supports a collapse, and finally on Tuesday the electorate chose to collapse.*


*R/R at least spoke about trying to reign in SS/Medicare whether it was true or not.

Anonymous jay c November 08, 2012 10:08 AM  

There's only one way out of this mess and two questions to answer:
1. Is the remnant of America smart enough and honest enough to figure out that one way?
2. Does the remnant of America have the balls to implement it?

Anonymous Stilicho November 08, 2012 10:12 AM  

If there's one thing I'll say, it's that blacks and hispanics really don't seem like they should be lumped together so quickly. They have different cultures, different problems, and different attitudes.

Two competing groups of parasites, one host. Right now, there's room for all of the fleas and enough blood to sustain them all. Not for long though. Right now, they can keep their distance from each other and stay on their own turf, but that is becoming increasing harder to do. It doesn't do the host much good to set them on each other because, in the long run, one group of parasites would emerge stronger than ever. Time for a flea bath, n'est pas?

Anonymous Mr. Nightstick November 08, 2012 10:16 AM  

Ross Douthat calls it.

Anonymous RINO November 08, 2012 10:21 AM  

1. Is the remnant of America smart enough and honest enough to figure out that one way?
2. Does the remnant of America have the balls to implement it?


No and no.

Anonymous fnn November 08, 2012 10:22 AM  

"It is a competitive world and I would have my tribe survive at the expense of every other tribe in the world. Yes. I can afford to be honest."

A long period of affluence combined with Frankfurt School-type programming after 1945 has virtually eradicated this type of thinking among white westerners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Authoritarian_Personality#Responses
(...)
Some observers have criticized what they saw as a strongly politicized agenda to The Authoritarian Personality. Social critic Christopher Lasch[26] argued that by equating mental health with left-wing politics and associating right-wing politics with an invented “authoritarian” pathology, the book's goal was to eliminate antisemitism by “subjecting the American people to what amounted to collective psychotherapy—by treating them as inmates of an insane asylum.” Similarly, Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizek wrote, “It is precisely the kind of group loyalty, respect for tradition, and consciousness of differences central to Jewish identity, however, that Horkheimer and Adorno described as mental illness in Gentiles. These writers adopted what eventually became a favorite Soviet tactic against dissidents: anyone whose political views differed from theirs was insane. […] Christian self-denial, and especially sexual repression, caused hatred of the Jews [according to Adorno et al.].”[27]
The Authoritarian Personality remains widely cited in the social sciences and continues to inspire research interest today.[28]



http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/007815.html
(...)
"Prof. Gottfried replies:
Christopher Lash’s True and Only Heaven includes a long section detailing the mainstream liberal support for The Authoritarian Personality in the 1950s and 1960s. Lipset, Hook, Daniel Bell, Arthur Schlesinger, Richard Hofstadter and the members of American Jewish Committe, who sponsored Adorno and Commentary magazine, were among the anti-Communist liberals who admired TAP and who thought that it had relevance for our country. Although you and I may be to the right of these celebrants, it would be hard to argue that no anti-Communist had any use for Adorno’s ideas."
(...)

Anonymous JartStar November 08, 2012 10:27 AM  

I'd venture a guess without looking at any data, that all of these changes which the majority of society has supported, sometimes with zealotry, has actually made people much more miserable.

Has no fault divorce and single motherhood made women happier?

Has the massive influx of uneducated immigrants made people, even the immigrants much happier?

Anonymous Josh November 08, 2012 10:43 AM  

Why hasn't anyone brought up the role of the federal reserve yet?

The devaluation of the dollar is a big reason we have a massive welfare class.

Anonymous DonReynolds November 08, 2012 10:47 AM  

"It is a competitive world and I would have my tribe survive at the expense of every other tribe in the world. Yes. I can afford to be honest."

fnn...."A long period of affluence combined with Frankfurt School-type programming after 1945 has virtually eradicated this type of thinking among white westerners."

I kindly disagree. The contempt for Boomers notwithstanding, they grew up during the decades of the Cold War with the Soviet Union (and to a lesser extent, Red China). You must remember that "mutually assured destruction", implicit in a general exchange of nuclear weapons, was PREFERRED to surrender. During the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, the public was in complete support for the use of nuclear weapons to force the removal of Soviet weapons from Cuba. Even before that, the defense of Germany (even West Berlin) was vital enough to include the best defensive forces and nuclear weapons of the US and NATO to stop a Soviet or Warsaw Pact invasion from reaching the Rhine. It was probably Ronald Reagan's apparent willingness to use overwhelming force that led to significant strategic weapons reductions and the ultimate fall of the Soviet Union. Clearly, the therapy was not completed or widespread. The nuclear freeze movement of the 1980s failed to gain much traction beyond the Liberal noisy housewives and pot smokers.



Anonymous BillB November 08, 2012 10:57 AM  

Here in NM the hispanic dropout rate is about 35-40% and has been so for the past 70+ years. Many of the hispanics in the state are illiterate in both English and Spanish, being unable to read and write either. And of course they consistently vote for statism because their culture is one based on El Patron. In the 1960s, my home county had over 25% of the residents on welfare and the percentage is higher today.

These people are as tribal as any in Iraq and do not see education as useful. Those who drop out generally do so in order to "get money". They continue to be unable to recognize the benefits of either education or training in a skill. There is also a prevalent concept that taking what one wants from those who have is not "bad". That paradigm comes through from the native american culture.

I don't know the exact % of single mothers but I believe it to be in the 40% range. At one point we the highest illegitimate birth rate in the country. Hell we still have "quinceaneras" here, where young girls are marched out as ready for "marriage" and "children".

So it there any hope? Nah. Call John Galt and ask to go.

Anonymous DrTorch November 08, 2012 11:06 AM  

Don, I think the evidence runs contrary to your conclusion. The baby boomers were just coming into their own when Reagan was elected. They didn't necessarily support him, some baby boomers weren't even old enough to vote in the 1980 election. And honestly, the major criticisms of him, which escalated as the baby boomers' presence and influence increased, was that he was an Authoritarian (and some claimed he was mentally ill). This escalated within the luxury of the Cold War's end, and hurt GHWB in 1992.

MAD (even the name) served to amplify the TAP thesis, especially among the impressionable baby boomers.

I'd say the data fit fnn's claim.

Anonymous rienzi November 08, 2012 11:31 AM  

All of my four brothers and sisters are progressives. They really do seem to accept as an article of faith that the only difference between a white guy electrical engineer with twenty years of experience, and high school dropout, twenty three year old Latrina from the ghetto, with six children by six different guys, is that the white guy is where he is, and Latrina is where she is as a result of nothing more than, "white privilege", and that, otherwise, it would be Latrina designing those circuits.

If Vrye Denker is around, it would be interesting to hear from him, how the basic infrastructure of SA works, and if it is the Boers or the Bantus keeping things functioning, as that seems to be the direction in which we are headed.

Anonymous Josh November 08, 2012 11:34 AM  

The republicans had less total votes than they did four years ago, against the most disastrous first term since Carter. Maybe they need to stop nominating liberals.

Anonymous A Visitor November 08, 2012 11:40 AM  

The USA is a great country because of the people who live there. The same with Japan. The same with Germany. Otherwise, the only differences between one land and another is trees, grass, dirt and rocks. It is the people who make a place great and when those people are transplanted (like across an ocean) they continue in the ways they have known before. Bring primative savages to a deserted island and they will live like savages. There is nothing magical or transformative about a boat ride or a long walk behind a wagon and team.

I always bring this up. I brought up the fact that Romney didn't win enough of the white vote on election night and was called racist by my cousin. I tore him apart.

Anonymous Other Josh November 08, 2012 11:43 AM  

A man can never go wrong quoting Pepper Brooks.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler November 08, 2012 11:53 AM  

I got the purrrfect example and horror story for you:

Brian Leiter is a philosophy professor at the University of Chicago and runs a blog LeiterReports. He has an article now 2012 Election Post Mortem farewell to white men where he writes, "The message in this is clear: the Republicans are doomed by demographics..."

and he began his article this way:

"but let's face it, the crop of white men in the United States these days is unusually benighted, and it's only because of them that we risked electing a Republican/Randroid ticket that would have endangered the well-being of tens of millions of people in the United States and, given recent history, many more internationally."

The hate that is dripping off his pen is outstanding. His hatred of the people who built America is amazing. This man has no respect for traditional Americans.

He is a Jew and an Atheist and he is the Majority of Jews. Not only do they have a hatred of Christianity---they have a hatred of Europeans. It is amazing that when I say the Jew needs to be suppressed, I'm called anti-semitic. Yet, when someone like Brian Leiter exposes his hatred of Europeans and his wish for their subjugation---nothing. No one calls him anti-European. It is his policies, his thoughts that are driving politics in America.

This turns on a Life and Death situation. Brian Leiter wants the death of the European and Christianity. Do I stand up for my people and Christ, or should I cower under the attack of being an "anti-semite". What does John Hagee, that vociferous, adamant philo-semite do, when the people he champions, are celebrating Evangelical defeat and subjugation?

Either Evil rules or Good rules but neither can do so together. What happened in Mother Russia when the Brian Leiters ran Russia? The Russian Royal Family was genocided and over 200,000 Orthodox clergy and monks were killed. 90% of all Christian structures damaged or destroyed.

Brian Leiter is part of the ruling aristocracy of America. This is who rules and decides what goes on.

This is the exact same situation in the Weimar (pseudo-)Republic where Communists, Jewish led socialist groups seized cities throughout Germany. If it wasn't for the National Socialists, Germany would have turned communist.

It is either us or them.

Anonymous DrTorch November 08, 2012 11:57 AM  

The republicans had less total votes than they did four years ago, against the most disastrous first term since Carter. Maybe they need to stop nominating liberals.

Agreed. Lib party picked up 500K, presumably from the Constitution Party and GOP. GOP support dropped by 2M votes.

Meanwhile, support for Obama was DOWN by 8-9M votes (14.1%) since 2008, and that doesn't count 500K Nader votes that went somewhere (even if it was the aether).

But some will say the GOP needs to be more liberal. I'd say that's making them less relevant (much like mainline Christian church denominations).


Anonymous Orville November 08, 2012 11:57 AM  

I just revised my business plan. I'm going to go black face ala Robert Downey in Tropic Thunder. With my brilliant white brain and new found ethnicity I'll have a huge competitive advantage.

Anonymous Jax November 08, 2012 12:03 PM  

Recently found this:

http://chizumatic.mee.nu/sleepless_night

Nothing new from what Vox had said before but the election made me forget about it completely.

Anonymous castricv November 08, 2012 12:07 PM  

YOu're going to miss Patty Boy when he's gone....

First person I ever voted for, and proud of it. Only non-fiction writer I've encountered in the last two decades whose books are remarkably current even 25 years later. When he says something it's usually correct and his predictions are based in fact. Love him.

Blogger James Dixon November 08, 2012 12:20 PM  

> "In war, how many of the enemy are you willing to kill to save just one of your own people?" ... The correct answer: ALL of them.

Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand the nature of war.

> Maybe they need to stop nominating liberals.

I don't see any sign that they have any intention of doing so.

Anonymous Bobo November 08, 2012 12:32 PM  

DonReynolds: "There is nothing magical or transformative about a boat ride or a long walk behind a wagon and team."

One could argue that the decision to embark on a harsh journey across the globe to start a new life because one is unhappy with one's current life, and the ability to achieve that, would select out those people who have more ambition and ability. So there may very well be something magical about those acts. On the other hand, once these people settle down and their children become complacent we may be back to square one, or maybe not if the parents instil the same spirit in the children, and/or there is a inheritable component which gets passed on.

Anonymous JartStar November 08, 2012 12:36 PM  

It was interesting to read some of the pundits/journalists today about what Obama needs to do next. The number one request was immigration reform, followed by the fiscal cliff, and then the rest of the issues. The fiscal cliff will take precedent due to the time constraints, but I’m sure amnesty will be the next big issue which the GOP will quickly capitulate on under the delusion that they’d suddenly vote conservative.

The GOP chasing the Democrats around on immigration is like the Gamma trying to friend his way into the Alpha’s girl’s pants. GOP, if the "immigration girl" wanted to sleep with you she already would have! Cleaning out her garage in an attempt to garner favor while she riding the Alpha in the bedroom is counterproductive.

Anonymous Josh November 08, 2012 12:40 PM  

This is the exact same situation in the Weimar (pseudo-)Republic where Communists, Jewish led socialist groups seized cities throughout Germany. If it wasn't for the National Socialists, Germany would have turned communist.It is either us or them.

Your argument is that we have to kill the Jews first, before they kill us?

Anonymous Bobo November 08, 2012 12:42 PM  

W.LindsayWheeler: Interesting, because here in South Africa, at least, most blacks are not buying the Leiters of this world, who are often associated with the leading anti-ANC opposition party in this country. Many white people here still thump their chests that they were also victims of apartheid and it was all the ummm Nationalist Boers' fault.... but they had British passports and they could have left....anyway, most blacks don't buy it, and many do prefer Afrikaaners to English speaking whites. I can imagine the situation among the black and Hispanic people would be similar in the US.

There is still some hope here that Chinese will save Africa but that disillusionment will come as Chinese bring their own workers to dig trenches and lay bricks.

Anonymous Anonymous November 08, 2012 12:57 PM  

BillB writes about New Mexico. People I know there say similar things about the dropout rate. One of the most frustrated is a Mexican-descended engineer who is the first of her family to go to college. She does a good job in her area of expertise, has a secure financial situation. But her nephews and nieces are almost all dropouts. They wind up working harder hours in crap jobs for barely more than min wage, because they could not be bothered to stay in school at the age of 16. And when I talk with her, she admits right up front that a big part of this is cultural; "they just can't see the value in learning, and I do not know why". Perhaps they are the norm, and she is the outlier?

Other thoughts real quick.

* Stopped in Las Vegas, NM 10 years back to see the "Rough Rider" museum. Walked around the old town square. Talked to a man who was trying to make a B&B work, he said that the majority of people in the county worked for some part of the government or other. But at least they worked, in a county in the mountains the public assistance level was 50%. Obviously his customers were all tourists.

* Revisited the same town this year, just driving through and stopped for lunch. A column in the local newspaper by a math professor at Highlands University, whatever that is, basically came out and said that most of his "college" students could not do algebra, and many were not even all that good at arithmetic. I expect he's looking for a new job by now.

* On the same road trip, talked to a leading edge boomer, 64 or so years old, at a coffee joint / restaurant called the Frontier in Albuquerque. It is near a different university. He had worked in state government for years, in a technical / managerial position of some sort. He didn't want to give out too many details. Then he retired some years back, early retirement. Now he looks at the condition of the state pension funds, not so good, and thinks about what to do. Turns out his old department wants him back. Desperately. Because they basically had to replace him with two people, and they still aren't getting all the work done. (Maybe the replacements were graduates of Highlands U?)

They missed him when he was gone, and want him back. He's negotiating...


Borderline Anonymous

Blogger RobertT November 08, 2012 1:02 PM  

Yes. We call that the talent crunch. That's why businesses are automating as rapidly as they can and outsourcing what they can't automate. There's opportunity in any climate or any country. And I'm working hard to take advantage of this one. Of course it may seem like we're living in a foreign nation, and perhaps by then we will be. Where is a white man of Northern European extraction to go nowadays? anyways?

(I've recently become attached to the word 'nowadays' and to a lesser extent, 'anyways' find them weirdly appropriate.)

Blogger RobertT November 08, 2012 1:03 PM  

'and' find them

damn add

Anonymous Tom O. November 08, 2012 1:03 PM  

Vox, you don't get it.

It doesn't matter if all of the WASPs were being replaced by chimpanzees. The plan is to use robots + government in order to achieve a state of permanent welfare.

Krugman et alli are orchestrating the greatest economic transition in history. It's not capitalism, and it's not communism. It's transhumanism. We will be living in the first post human era.

Anonymous Tom O. November 08, 2012 1:04 PM  

Where is a white man of Northern European extraction to go nowadays?

Wyoming.

Anonymous 11B November 08, 2012 1:05 PM  

After Tuesday only the dense and obstinate don't realize that Pat Buchanan was right, and has been for over twenty years. I am sure Pat is not celebrating and wishes he was either wrong, or that he could have done more to persuade enough of us to listen to him. It's too bad he is now too old to run. I really wish the GOP would have nominated him in 92, 96 or 00.

Anonymous The Gray Man November 08, 2012 1:09 PM  

Josh - November 08, 2012 10:43 AM
Why hasn't anyone brought up the role of the federal reserve yet?

The devaluation of the dollar is a big reason we have a massive welfare class.


Josh, have you learned nothing from the election and the past few articles that Vox has posted? You and many other libertarians are still stuck on the Federal Reserve as if getting rid of it will solve our problems. It will not. Even if it were abolished tomorrow, we would still be stuck with a massive underclass of immigrants and minorities. It also should go without saying that the chances of eliminating something like the Fed while this underclass still exists is next to zero.

The Fed was an issue that should have been fixed decades ago. It's too late now. By the time we can get rid of the Fed it will be a situation where we will probably be creating a whole new government after a major civil war.

I am not trying to nitpick on you, but I find that too many libertarians are harping on issues that made more sense 5 or 6 years ago and have failed to recognize that the demographic problem must be addressed first.

If Obama eliminated the Fed tomorrow there would be an instant civil war start up rather than waiting fifteen or twenty years for it to appear due to the immediate economic collapse we would face.

I am all in favor of eliminating the Fed, but it is no longer an issue to worry about because of how screwed the country is on every single front. Eliminating the Fed and harping on it as a main talking point is politically fruitless and ultimately pointless.

Anonymous 11B November 08, 2012 1:12 PM  

One more thing on Pat. I recall arguing over the years with 'conservatives' who did not like Pat because of his supposedly negative stand on Israel. I actually never heard Pat say he did not like Israel, he just did not want to fight wars on their behalf. But that was enough to make him unelectable.

Now I wonder how those same conservatives feel. They put all their effort into a muscular foreign policy that had to have the US be the dominant kid on every block but his own. How do they feel that they blew off what was happening at home while they frittered away in Iraq for a decade only to come home and find that it's not their country anymore? As Pat once said, "Bush is trying to save Anbar province while he is losing Arizona."

In the end I wonder if they realize that defense of America should have started at home.

Anonymous Stilicho November 08, 2012 1:29 PM  

How do they feel that they blew off what was happening at home while they frittered away in Iraq for a decade only to come home and find that it's not their country anymore? As Pat once said, "Bush is trying to save Anbar province while he is losing Arizona."

Ask any conservative who favors nation building in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc. if he would be in favor of building new public housing projects, public schools, and new infrastructure in Detroit. Sit back and watch his head explode.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler November 08, 2012 1:35 PM  

It is all Mass delusion. Even the supposed "conservatives" and Libertarians are under mass delusion.

Look at Europe. Mostly all white Europeans who have bought into the Socialist crap. Greece? Socialist and communist crap.

It is Spiritual. When you loose spiritual truth---you loose out on physical truth. The European turned its back on the Catholic Church, so now the European is effeminate and foolhardy. He gets what he deserves.

I voted for Pat Buchanan every time. He was right and 90% of the Republican party is wrong. This is what Israel loving National Review types deserve--their death. Is it not amazing that their support of Israel---has lead to their suicide.

I call it poetic justice.

Anonymous Josh November 08, 2012 1:36 PM  

You and many other libertarians are still stuck on the Federal Reserve as if getting rid of it will solve our problems. It will not. Even if it were abolished tomorrow, we would still be stuck with a massive underclass of immigrants and minorities.

I never claimed it would solve "all our problems". However, a sound monetary system solves the problem of deficit spending caused by a welfare state. It also solves the problem of the under class not being able to find employment and income. It fixes the problem of mortgage bubble busts caused by minority borrowers.

Anonymous fnn November 08, 2012 1:47 PM  

I kindly disagree. The contempt for Boomers notwithstanding, they grew up during the decades of the Cold War with the Soviet Union (and to a lesser extent, Red China). You must remember that "mutually assured destruction", implicit in a general exchange of nuclear weapons, was PREFERRED to surrender. During the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, the public was in complete support for the use of nuclear weapons to force the removal of Soviet weapons from Cuba. Even before that, the defense of Germany (even West Berlin) was vital enough to include the best defensive forces and nuclear weapons of the US and NATO to stop a Soviet or Warsaw Pact invasion from reaching the Rhine. It was probably Ronald Reagan's apparent willingness to use overwhelming force that led to significant strategic weapons reductions and the ultimate fall of the Soviet Union. Clearly, the therapy was not completed or widespread. The nuclear freeze movement of the 1980s failed to gain much traction beyond the Liberal noisy housewives and pot smokers.

This is just people passively accepting the leadership of the elite. That's the norm.
http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2008/04/higgs_on_goring.html
"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Göring shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare war."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." (Nuremberg Diary, pp. 278–79)

Anonymous The One November 08, 2012 1:49 PM  

Where is a white man of Northern European extraction to go nowadays?

New Hamsphire'

Wyoming came in second.

Freestateproject.org

Anonymous DonReynolds November 08, 2012 2:00 PM  

DonReynolds: "There is nothing magical or transformative about a boat ride or a long walk behind a wagon and team."

Bobo...."One could argue that the decision to embark on a harsh journey across the globe to start a new life because one is unhappy with one's current life, and the ability to achieve that, would select out those people who have more ambition and ability."

Bobo, not sure what you think of the Vortrekkers....but your wishful thinking is easy enough to test.

In this country (USA), it would mean that the more ambitious and capable whites would come from Alaska and Hawaii; or if you like, from Oregon or Nevada or Idaho. But I find none of the best universities in any of these places nor is there a high concentration of over-achievers nor have I noticed these places as origins of technical innovation.

I guess you would conclude that it was lost after a few generations on the frontier. I would say they never had it to begin with.

Anonymous Conrad The Crazed November 08, 2012 2:01 PM  

Ending the fed should remain Priority #1. It is from this foul beast that all the ills plauging the nation either spring forth, or are sustained/enabled. Working on the demographics problem first (or any other for that matter), without taking out the fed, is the equivalent of using the head-severing method to kill the mythological hydra.

Ending the fed (and stringing up all those who make up its charter membership) is the equivalent of using the hydra-poison-dipped arrow to kill the same hydra.

Anonymous Idle Spectator November 08, 2012 2:08 PM  

Dude, YOU'RE BLOWING IT.

You can't say "white." You have to start talking in code like they do if you want to win. Like gay really meant homosexual, Hispanic really meant Mestizo and Amerindian, and affirmative action is really get whitey to pay.

Say "traditional diversity" or something instead. Play to win now. Stop pandering to these losers for votes, because they are never going to like your "western cultural perspective."


And like Pepper Brooks, I really like pumpkins.

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 08, 2012 3:00 PM  

The Repuke base has been stuck on stupid a long, long time. As one can easily see from this thread, the prospect of any reality about the regime and its wars sinking into their tiny brains is remote at best. They never, ever connect even the most obvious dots. One cannot have limited government and empire at the same time.

Anonymous RedJack November 08, 2012 3:32 PM  

Vox I have a question.

Some here have commented on the Patron system that is in a lot of Hispanic cultures (and in Spain for that matter).

It is based off the old Roman system of patron and client. Does Italy have a similar view on things? I have heard that southern Italy does, but have no experience with it either way.

Anonymous CunningDove November 08, 2012 4:33 PM  

I have come to the conclusion, right or wrong, that most people don't understand that we can fail. It is quite possible for our currency to go Zimbabwe on us & that the subsequent collapse of "how things work" will be catastrophic for most people. Those of us who see/say such things are considered crazy. Because "that could never happen."

The banks got overextended & the government/Federal Reserve stepped in & stopped the failure. GM, same thing. Failure is not only possible, it is necessary. The prospect of losing everything you own is the only check against stupidity that some people have. Take that away, and watch the potential for destruction grow. John Gault, did he play a fiddle or Halo4? I'm going to play Halo to see if I can find him. (After I get off from work.)

Blogger CR106 November 08, 2012 4:43 PM  

I have a question that I hope someone will answer. Don Reynolds opens a can of worms when he says the following:

Not all life has value. Some ARE worthless and some have negative worth. And some lives are of great value. Does that bother you? It is a competitive world and I would have my tribe survive at the expense of every other tribe in the world.

Isn't this sentiment the basis for eugenics, Hitler's Master Race, forced sterilizations of the feeble minded, and stealth genocide through abortion of the black community? And this isn't even the main question.

Is this the mindset that led to the extermination of the Plains Indians to make the West safe for the coming railroads?

I've always wondered how Christians could justify knocking the American Indians off of the land when they were clearly here first. Is the general answer that "our culture is better than yours!"?

I understand the arguments being made where race should align and the grand experiment of mixing the races here in the U.S. has only hurt us. I see that most other countries around the world (except for some of Europe) are homogenous. And they are racist to outsiders.

Anonymous Logan November 08, 2012 5:15 PM  

I never understood why the term "people of color" refers to black people. How are black people "people of color" but not white people? One could argue that, technically, since black is the absence of color and white is the blending of colors, it would make more sense to refer to white people as people of color.

Or we could just dispose of the term, as it appears to be another instance of political correctness on stilts.

Anonymous cluth November 08, 2012 5:32 PM  

"I've always wondered how Christians could justify knocking the American Indians off of the land when they were clearly here first. Is the general answer that "our culture is better than yours!"?"

Show me another example in the history of the world where this principle was applied and worked. Every civilization has had to fight invasion in order to retain their land.

Tell me, CR106, when tribes had a property dispute and couldn't smoke themselves peaceful, how was it resolved?

War.

Blogger CR106 November 08, 2012 5:40 PM  

Thanks for your answer cluth, but I was looking for a Christian response. The question has to do with Vox's particular flavor of Christianity and how it is practiced in a political sense.

No need to lecture me and condescendingly imply "Duh. You're an idiot."

Blogger James Dixon November 08, 2012 5:47 PM  

> Isn't this sentiment the basis for eugenics, Hitler's Master Race, forced sterilizations of the feeble minded, and stealth genocide through abortion of the black community?

No. There's a considerable difference between fighting another group in a war and rounding them up for disposal in ostensible peacetime.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler November 08, 2012 6:04 PM  

Josh, Marxist, read Jewish ideology, is about existential genocide, deracinating, the gentiles for the rule of the Jew and their worldly messiah to come. In the Old Tesatment, the Hebrews were masters of the genocide and committed it several times.

Before the outbreak of any actual war, the Jews declared war on Germany when Communism, i.e. International Socialism, proposed the doing away of nations. The program is called political correctness and it is about deracination people. That is Jewish ideology.

As they were genociders in Classical Antiquity, the Jew is a genocider, albeit existential, in the Modern Age. Political Correctness is carried out on every college campus and school and business and government in America. It is deracinating the European.

Should I not fight against that?

I have never proposed killing Jews. I have always and everywhere brought up the traditional Catholic teaching that the Jews be suppressed. Suppression does not mean killing. It means they are restricted to menial labor far from cultural and power levers in society. They are removed from our courts, lawyering field, government, and from Hollywood and any media, newspaper and TV.

For OUR safety! The European rejected Roman Catholicism and so hence rejected this teaching and sooooooo---Brian Leiter has his way! The death, subjugation of the European by the brown races. As the European dies, so does real orthodox Christianity!

Satan understands that to kill Christianity he must kill the European for Christianity, Catholicism, is a Greek/European religion. Destroy the Greek/European, you destroy Traditional orthodox Christianity. Brian Leiter is a son of Satan, carrying out the will of Satan.

Should we give him free reign? You can NOT solve the problem of America without solving the Jewish Question.

And oh yea, I've read the second book by Hitler where he points out the reason for the Holocaust. The Holocaust did NOT start until after the war broke out. It was because the Jewish interests in New York and London, couldn't allow Germany, a nationalist Germany to exist! The Holocaust was in retribution for them fomenting war against Germany!

Anonymous DonReynolds November 08, 2012 6:41 PM  

CR106...."I have a question that I hope someone will answer. Don Reynolds opens a can of worms when he says the following:"

Not all life has value. Some ARE worthless and some have negative worth. And some lives are of great value. Does that bother you? It is a competitive world and I would have my tribe survive at the expense of every other tribe in the world.

CR106...."Isn't this sentiment the basis for eugenics, Hitler's Master Race, forced sterilizations of the feeble minded, and stealth genocide through abortion of the black community? And this isn't even the main question."

I guess we will never know your main question.

It may please you to know that one of the first acts of the Nazi government in 1933 was to outlaw abortion. (I am not a Nazi or National Socialist, but I do read a bit of history.) The USA was very active in eugenics until Ted Kennedy raised a stink about two idiots that got sterilized in Alabama, sometime in the 1960s. Since no one is forced to get an abortion, your "stealth genocide in the black community" looks more like an ordinary case of mothers preferring to abort rather than bear the young of transient fathers. Probably a rational, though selfish, decision. My post had nothing to do with eugenics (which means "well born"). I am more interested in those already born.

I am not surprised that you missed the point of my post, which is that all life is not valued the same, not here or anywhere else.

Anonymous Tad November 08, 2012 6:48 PM  

There is no reason to believe the Barrios will follow hispanics into a future USA anymore than tenements followed jews and irish into a future USA. And it's informative to remember that these groups were also treated back then with the same kind of racists attitudes they are treated with here.

Anonymous DonReynolds November 08, 2012 7:05 PM  

CR106..."Is this the mindset that led to the extermination of the Plains Indians to make the West safe for the coming railroads?"

The Plains Indians, as you call them, were not exterminated nor was this necessary to build the railroads. On the contrary, they were provided with land by the Federal government, much of which they still hold as Indian Reservations. When certain Indian tribes or nations left the lands reserved for them to murder farmers and ranchers, the Federal military was dispatched to force them to return to their reservations. They are not hard to find, they are a significant presence in many of the states out west.

CR106..."I've always wondered how Christians could justify knocking the American Indians off of the land when they were clearly here first. Is the general answer that "our culture is better than yours!"?

Read more history. The American Indians were not knocked off the land by anyone. Vast stretches of land was swapped for other land or ceded outright to the Federal government by Indian leaders by treaty or contract. There were some Indian wars, where territory was lost but those wars were very localized and the opposing state militia or Federal troops were very small....really not capable of fighting over vast areas of forested wilderness.

Part of the Indian Removal to west of the Mississippi by the Federal Government was as much protective as anything else. Had the motivation been to exterminate them, to use your term, it would have been more easily accomplished where they were already living. Some Indians, in Mississippi and Alabama decided to stay on as US citizens and farm land given to them. Others decided to go west with the other Indians, principally to Oklahoma, where they still live.

Had the American Indian been exterminated, there would not be any today.


Anonymous Azimus November 08, 2012 7:08 PM  

So here's a question: what is the average value of benefits per participant in the social security and medicare programs? And how much inflation would be required annually to nullify the increased borrowing required to provide these benefits to 4 million new people? An additional 3-4% above the present rate?

Blogger CR106 November 08, 2012 7:15 PM  

Don Reynolds: Thanks for your answers. Probably won't be on here again tonight.

Anonymous DonReynolds November 08, 2012 7:21 PM  

CR106....Parting is such sweet sorrow.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler November 08, 2012 7:56 PM  

Clint Bolick who co-wrote that piece about "Reforming Immigration" formed a "Libertarian" Think tank!

The man is a Libertarian!

Libertarians are for open-borders making them traitors. He is a traitor, Judas.

Anonymous DrTorch November 08, 2012 9:28 PM  

RobertT Yes. We call that the talent crunch. That's why businesses are automating as rapidly as they can and outsourcing what they can't automate.

Kinda weird to see this in writing. I'm just at the end of "Turing's Cathedral" and in a couple of late chapters he writes about what if computers are taking over, as some of the early users and developers contemplated/warned. What you wrote would be one of their strategies.

Blogger rcocean November 08, 2012 10:17 PM  

I like Pat but what Dumb economics. The idea that we need X number of people to support Y number of retirees is absurd. Ever hear of automation or a concept called productivity? How many of these future retirees actually doing anything PRODUCTIVE now? Working for the Government, or a company that sells stuff to the Government, or being on welfare, or clipping coupons or living off your investments, isn't productive.

I may not have used the right terms but I think Smart people get the point.

Anonymous Grinder November 08, 2012 10:18 PM  

I'm surprised nobody said "Math be RACISS!" Or is it "maff be raciss"?

I pity the poor white fools who held their nose and voted Romney. They may still come to the realization that a Romney win would not save the white race. GOP commenters have already tipped their preferred strategy of making the Republican party the party of latinos, as taco-benders will become the largest demographic in the years to come. A white nationalist Russia is becoming the last hope for the white race.

Blogger rcocean November 08, 2012 10:20 PM  

And OT. Could Vox list some commentators he actually thinks ADD value. I've got to the point where I just skim and skip through the comments since they're so dumb - unless SB and Vox enter the fray. Having a list of "Smart commentators" would be useful.

Anonymous Geoff-UK November 08, 2012 10:41 PM  

U.S. banksters loaned money to Germany. Germany wasn't keeping up with the interest payments. Ergo, when Germany sought lebensraum, U.S. banksters figured he was never going to pay the debt. Ergo, Germany must be stopped!!!

Anonymous johnc November 08, 2012 11:29 PM  

He just knocks it out of the park again and again:

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/is-the-gop-headed-for-the-boneyard/

This guy should have been our president in 1992.

Blogger R. Bradley Andrews November 09, 2012 7:05 AM  

I wonder if moving "somewhere else" (outside the US) is as good an idea as some people think. Those who are not really integrated with the local people may become the local face of the "hated US" if it comes to that. Might not be so "safe" in that case.

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