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Wednesday, November 07, 2012

What I missed

It wasn't the Jews, the Blacks, or even the Single Women that won it for him this time.    A lower percentage of Jews and Single Women voted for him than in 2008.  The Black vote was already maxed out.  What made the difference was the increasingly powerful, increasingly Democrat-leaning Hispanic vote.  First, look at what happened in 2008:
Hispanics voted for Democrats Barack Obama and Joe Biden over Republicans John McCain and Sarah Palin by a margin of more than two-to-one in the 2008 presidential election, 67% versus 31%, according to an analysis by the Pew Hispanic Center of exit polls from Edison Media Research as published by CNN.  The Center's analysis also finds that 9% of the electorate was Latino, as indicated by the national exit poll. This is higher, by one percentage point, than the share in the 2004 national exit poll.
There were 129,391,711 votes cast for Obama and McCain in 2008, of which about 11,645,254 were Hispanic.  Obama received 7,802,320 of them.  We don't know yet how many total votes were cast in the 2012 election, but the Hispanic vote is reported to have not only grown, but to have gone more heavily for Obama than before;  I've seen reports indicating between 72 and 75 percent voted Democrat.

The numbers aren't firm yet, of course, because the final totals haven't been reported.  But even if we assume only another one point percentage increase so that 12.9 million of the approximately 24 million Hispanics eligible voted, the reported increase from 67 to 73 percent would be an increase from 7,802,320 to 9,417,000, which is a substantial portion of Obama's reported margin of victory.  And those votes are spread out very liberally through swing states such as Virginia, Colorado, and even Iowa.

Before the election, I noted that the big difference between Nate Silver's take and mine was that I simply did not believe the D+11 and D+7 weights in the state polls.  The reason those differences were justified was that in 2012, Hispanics apparently went from being heavily pro-Democrat to being even more pro-Democrat than the historically second-most reliable group of Democratic voters, the Jews.  That's the key factor I missed; while I anticipated an increase in the size of the Hispanic vote as more immigrants became eligible over the course of time, I thought it was going to drop in line with the other demographic groups, not vote an even stronger pro-Democratic bias.  Had it fallen 9 points like the Jewish vote, to 58 percent, Romney would have been much more competitive.

This development is particularly troubling for future Republican prospects since even more of the 50 million Hispanics now in the USA will become eligible to vote in 2016.  My previous characterization of Mitt Romney as the last viable Republican presidential candidate may be more significant than I imagined.  This demographic shift indicates that no candidate can expect to run on a Constitutional platform ever again, and appears to seal the irrelevance of the document that George W. Bush once dismissed as a worthless piece of paper.

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178 Comments:

Anonymous Porky. November 07, 2012 9:20 AM  

O was incredibly wise to not push for amnesty in his first term. Hopefulness is much more motivating than thankfulness.

Anonymous Porky. November 07, 2012 9:24 AM  

Before the election, I noted that the big difference between Nate Silver's take and mine was that I simply did not believe the D+11 and D+7 weights in the state polls.

You made two mistakes. You misinterpreted Obama's mood as apathetic, and you assigned this misinterpretation to his electorate.

Anonymous Gerd November 07, 2012 9:29 AM  

There is no escape for the Republic this time.

Anonymous O.C. November 07, 2012 9:29 AM  

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”

― Alexis de Tocqueville

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler November 07, 2012 9:34 AM  

Ohh, but you didn't listen to Mitt Romney's "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" mantra! The republicans couldn't care less about Culture, it is all about the ecomomy!

Well, how is that going for the repukes?

The Natural Law is "Life is War". When they say "Demography is Destiny", demography is a type of war. Clinias the Cretan, in Plato's The Laws, speaking about the Doric King Minos says, ""He meant, I believe, to reprove the folly of mankind, who refuse to understand that they are all engaged in a continous lifelong warfare against all cities whatsoever".

Change out "cities" for "race" and you get the point. Life is war. The Republicans have been following that folly that Clinias spoke of. Life is War is the Natural Law, Wisdom. To not pay attention to that is folly.

Anonymous VD November 07, 2012 9:36 AM  

You made two mistakes. You misinterpreted Obama's mood as apathetic, and you assigned this misinterpretation to his electorate.

No, neither of them were mistakes. Obama was, and is, apathetic. Not quite enough to quit, obviously, but even his fans were commenting on the noticeable difference between Obama 2008 and Obama 2012. And his electorate wasn't terribly enthusiastic either. His Jewish and female votes were down, both percentage and overall numbers.

I don't mind admitting to mistakes, but those don't appear to be the problem. I'll have more on this when the final numbers are in.

Anonymous CK November 07, 2012 9:39 AM  

"My previous characterization of Mitt Romney as the last viable Republican presidential candidate may be more significant than I imagined."

I think you might be overstating. GW had a lot of credibility with Hispanics, particularly with his Texas connections. The same simply cannot be said of a Massachusetts-Michigan Mormon.

Republicans can win a huge swath of the Hispanic vote, and do so with a compromise with these voters. Offer eliminating the drug war in return for reasonable immigration enforcement. I think if it was sold right, with rhetoric as you say, it could work. But I don't expect anything like this from official Conservative Inc who has become a cast of caricatures that liberals can point to and mock into submission.

Anonymous Crispy November 07, 2012 9:40 AM  

Interesting visualization of Texas presidential election results by county:
http://www.politico.com/2012-election/map/#/President/2012/TX
Apart from the big-city blue counties, Harris (Houston), Dallas (DFW), Travis (Austin), and Bexar (San Antonio), most of the state is red, except along the Rio Grande. Perhaps there's something in the water.

Anonymous daddynichol November 07, 2012 9:40 AM  

La Raza will be our new overlords! Tacos for everyone!


Anonymous Knarf November 07, 2012 9:42 AM  

> Perhaps there's something in the water.

There is. Wetbacks.

Anonymous Josh November 07, 2012 9:43 AM  

Obama's base might have been apathetic, but it got bigger. Romney's didn't.

Also, pissing off the Ron Paul folks probably depressed Romney's total vote.

Anonymous daddynichol November 07, 2012 9:43 AM  

You made two mistakes. You misinterpreted Obama's mood as apathetic, and you assigned this misinterpretation to his electorate.

Then why didn't Obama win in a landslide? You're wrong on both counts as Vox noted.

Anonymous Josh November 07, 2012 9:46 AM  

Republicans can win a huge swath of the Hispanic vote, and do so with a compromise with these voters. Offer eliminating the drug war in return for reasonable immigration enforcement.

Does "reasonable immigration enforcement" mean de facto amnesty?

So...let's say that this compromise pushes the gop share of the hispanic vote back to 40%...it's still a net loss when you factor in all the new hispanic voters.

Anonymous RINO November 07, 2012 9:46 AM  

I think you might be overstating. GW had a lot of credibility with Hispanics, particularly with his Texas connections. The same simply cannot be said of a Massachusetts-Michigan Mormon.

I wonder when people will drop the hope that Republicans are going to win the hispanic vote. John McCain, head cheerleader of the 2006 amnesty bill, lost the hispanic vote. Livelihood will always trump the drug war and abortion. Time to face reality.

Blogger JDC November 07, 2012 9:52 AM  

This demographic shift indicates that no candidate can expect to run on a Constitutional platform ever again, and appears to seal the irrelevance of the document that George W. Bush once dismissed as a worthless piece of paper.

I'm curious how this fact plays out on the state level. In MI, which has voted D in the last 6 elections, voted NO on all 6 proposals on the ballot - 5 of them representing constitutional changes. What surprised me was that two of the proposals would have granted the UAW and healthcare unions more power, yet union loving liberal Michiganders voted them down.

Prop 1 - No - appoint emergency city managers.
Prop 2 - No - constitutional protection for collective bargaining.
Prop 3 - No - constitutional amendment requiring 25% of state's electricity to come from renewable sources.
Prop 4 - No - const. amendment creating a Home Care council (in effect granting unions Medicaid money and more authority - even for people looking after mom)
Prop 5 - No - const. amendment requiring a 2/3 vote of state house and senate to raise taxes.
Prop 6 - No - const. amendment requiring a majority of voters in an area where a new bridge or tunnel is proposed.

Logic tells me that proposals 2,3 and 4 were very liberal friendly (2 and 4 boosting union power, and 3 for the envirofascists), and should have been approved by liberal MI, but were nonetheless voted down. The only conclusion I can come up with is that people didn't want the constitution changed. But, hell, what do I know.

Anonymous Rodríguez November 07, 2012 9:57 AM  

Cultural occupation. And people are worried that the Muslim is going to take over AmeriKa, institute sharia law, make you bugger little boys, goats, sheep, and a occasional camel, force your women to wear a burka, make the men marry little girls...

Anonymous Emulator November 07, 2012 9:58 AM  

Called it: http://theemeraldlight.wordpress.com/2012/11/06/turnout-models-and-their-bias/

"latinos are beginning to mobilize in much larger numbers."

Sorry folks, my latino friends are going to change the electorate for the better once and for all.

Anonymous re allow anonymous comments November 07, 2012 9:59 AM  

Obama cheated and stole the election, that's what everybody who was projecting a Romney win missed.

I repeat my earlier comment that this Hispanic tidal wave doesn't doom the GOP as much as the partisan liberal jewish mass media.

Anonymous Nathan Bedford Forrest November 07, 2012 10:02 AM  

It has always been the goddam yankees. White northerners stab us all in the back, every single time.

Anonymous JartStar November 07, 2012 10:08 AM  

O was incredibly wise to not push for amnesty in his first term. Hopefulness is much more motivating than thankfulness.

I expect a full on push for amnesty in the next four years along with a fast track initiative to citizenship. Obama can set up the next Democrat in 2016 by doing this. If the Democrats are smart they nominate a Hispanic and it will truly be a landslide.

Anonymous JartStar November 07, 2012 10:12 AM  

More: Although Republican nominee Mitt Romney won a larger share of the white vote than any presidential candidate since Ronald Reagan scored a landslide re-election in 1984, the former Massachusetts governor ended up a loser at the polls because of the racial, ethnic and generational changes that have altered the U.S. electoral landscape.

Obama’s electoral vote landslide is a reflection of the changing face of America. The portion of nonwhite voters in the electorate has tripled over the last four decades to 28 percent on Tuesday. The Democratic incumbent led among African Americans by 93 percent to 7 percent – the best performance by a Democrat since Lyndon Johnson in 1964.

Heavy African American turnout in Philadelphia, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Richmond and Miami changed the dynamic in five battleground states. In key swing states, Romney received just 1 percent of the African American vote in Florida and 3 percent in Ohio and Virginia.

Meanwhile, Latino voters, energized by tough Republican rhetoric on immigration, voted Democratic by 69 percent to 30 percent, tipping the balance of power in a string of states including Florida, Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado.


So both the Democrats and Republicans will be tripping over themselves to be first in line with amnesty and the GOP will of course lose the battle.

Anonymous The other skeptic November 07, 2012 10:15 AM  

Drudge reports that turnout drops by 14M

If only those pesky unemployed would vote. Or maybe it was all those white people who were simply appalled by the choices.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler November 07, 2012 10:16 AM  

Here is a good time to repost what Jeb Bush has to say, the Good Repuke that he is:

In an article in Parade magazine, an insert for newspapers, Nov. 4, 2012 issue, the Repuke has this to say:

"America's population growth has stalled, and our social welfare burden is escalating as fewer workers support more retirees. The only way to save safety-net programs and escape a crushing debt burden is to have a pipeline of hardworking, talented immigrants."

But the problem, Jeb, is that the majority of immigration is from "Hispanic Countries", Mexicans, Columbians and Haitians that go immediately on the dole! What an idiot! Here is a guy, a Bushie, like his elder brother, committing suicide! He is an idiot like the rest of the repukes.

Anonymous Roundtine November 07, 2012 10:16 AM  

I think you might be overstating. GW had a lot of credibility with Hispanics, particularly with his Texas connections. The same simply cannot be said of a Massachusetts-Michigan Mormon.

You could make this argument about Republicans winning more of the Shia vote in an Iraqi election. Hey, if they only change their position on Shariah law, they could pull in 10% more.......

Anonymous cherub's revenge November 07, 2012 10:17 AM  

Sorry folks, my latino friends are going to change the electorate for the better once and for all.

Yep, just like they did in all those well-functioning Latrino countries.

Can't wait for our first coup led by beaners on the hoods of lowered 1980s Chevy half-tons.

Anonymous The other skeptic November 07, 2012 10:17 AM  


But the problem, Jeb, is that the majority of immigration is from "Hispanic Countries", Mexicans, Columbians and Haitians that go immediately on the dole! What an idiot! Here is a guy, a Bushie, like his elder brother, committing suicide! He is an idiot like the rest of the repukes.


My god! Could it be that Jeb Bush is more interested in helping the Bush dynasty than helping ordinary Americans?

Anonymous JartStar November 07, 2012 10:24 AM  

Sorry folks, my latino friends are going to change the electorate for the better once and for all.

What Latino country should we model ourselves after?

Anonymous TLM November 07, 2012 10:26 AM  

You are about to witness "being nig*er-rich" on steroids the next 4 years. I bet the 1st lady and entourage visit every 5 star resort in the world, all on whitey's dime. Hooray for our democratic republic.

Anonymous cherub's revenge November 07, 2012 10:30 AM  

And Puerto Rico voted in a referendum with 65% of them favoring statehood, something the Republicans have championed.

"Natural conservatives".

Anonymous Anonymous November 07, 2012 10:30 AM  

Twitter #foodstamps

Anonymous Jingleheimer November 07, 2012 10:34 AM  

Yay! Both guys sucked, so who cares?

oh wait...
The re(s)election of Barack Obama has assured... a guaranteed gun grab in the coming months...

Mittens was no friend of the 2A – but BHO is openly its enemy. We have the man's own statements – and we have the man's own actions, including the actions of his personally selected attorney general. A man publicly and virulently opposed to peaceful American citizens possessing guns – who ran guns to Mexican drug cartels in the hope these guns would then be used to perform violent crimes – crimes that could then be used as emotional fodder for gun-grabbing demagoguery. That backfired – but now that Obama (and Holder) are secure in their offices, rest assured that "Fast and Furious" was merely a prelude.

Here is what's coming:

The Supreme Court, already densely marbled with authoritarian-minded collectivists such as "wise Latina" Sotomayor, Elena Kagan, and Ruth Ginsberg, will be further tilted collectivist when – not if - the aging "conservatives" who still linger either give up the ghost or just give up and retire. Antonin Scalia is not far from 80. Neither is Anthony Kennedy. They will be over 80 before 2016. Clarence Thomas is no spring chicken, either. One – or several – are going to go during the next four years. Roberts has already proved to be agreeable to whatever the authoritarian state demands.


http://www.thedailycrux.com/Post/41732/Controversial-post--This-could-be-the-first-serious-danger-of-the-Obama-victory

Anonymous Daniel November 07, 2012 10:39 AM  

Obama is undeniably apathetic. He admits ambivalence about his own position all the time. His supporters were apathetic. The population has grown since '08, and turnout was lower.

Apathy + no pleasant alternative = marginal status quo. There's no glowing and there's no gloating. The oligarchs gave the mob a choice between collapse with a side of good hair and collapse with a second helping of voided lottery tickets. It was the weight guessing booth in the Jerk. Everyone got a pencil.

Blogger CR106 November 07, 2012 10:39 AM  

I'm just pretty depressed today. Wore all blue to work to reflect my mood. Now we can be sure that without some miraculous spiritual awakening between now and then, the only thing that will truly change this country will be a massive default, which we all know is coming. I'm done with politics. Politics is an extension of people's beliefs. Unless we can convince people that self-reliance is the better choice, we are doomed. And demographically, we are doomed.

Diversity has not been our strength, but our downfall. I know many on this site aren't Christians; nevertheless, I'm going to spend the rest of my days simply living out what I believe and convincing others to become Christians. When they do, they will vote Christian values. And that will be the only thing that restores (not saves. we are already doomed. collapse is coming and there is nothing we can do to stop it now) this country. I'm starting with my own children: Homeschooling. Possibly moving to a stronger Christian enclave and out of the city (lots of minorities surrounding me right now). Teaching the kids to own their own business. To be free of encumbrances as much as possible.

I feel like we are living in Rome, circa AD 300 or 350, perhaps even as late as 450.

We have to be prepared to rebuild AFTER the massive collapse. I just hope we survive the martial law which will be a part of the transition. Any other thoughts?

Anonymous JMac November 07, 2012 10:42 AM  

O.C. quoted "'A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.' ― Alexis de Tocqueville "

This (http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html) writer's research indicates the quote is most often attributed to one Alexander Tytler though no one actually knows who said/wrote it.

Never-the-less it seems to me that it's authority doesn't stem from it's author, but from it's own resonance with truth.

Anonymous Josh November 07, 2012 10:44 AM  

Mittens was no friend of the 2A – but BHO is openly its enemy.

You Mongoloid, Mittens signed a gun ban while governor.

Anonymous Porky? November 07, 2012 10:48 AM  

Obama was, and is, apathetic.

Lol! You've obviously convinced yourself of this despite the clear evidence that he has achieved a great many of his goals in the first administration.

Anonymous Todd November 07, 2012 10:48 AM  

I watched the election last night with 2 republicans at a local tavern one of them owned.

There is no hope for the republic. These guys were complaining that Mitt
was too conservative and turned off the electorate. Both wanted to appease the hispanic vote via immigration reform. Geez.

We should vote everything Democratic from now on. Do not resist. Let all of their wildest dreams come true like Cap and Trade, immigration reform, etc.

Why drag this out? Let the consequences be seen much sooner rather than later.

Anonymous JMac November 07, 2012 10:55 AM  

VD: Bush didn't say the quote about the Constitution you attribute to him according to http://factcheck.org/2007/12/bush-the-constitution-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/. The original web site that quoted that withdrew the quote.

Anonymous Noah B. November 07, 2012 10:55 AM  

I don't know how close to the final tally we are, but the vote total that Fox News is showing is just shy of 120,000,000. An even more significant factor than changing demographics appears to be a widespread lack of enthusiasm for Romney among Republicans. Had they nominated a candidate with a track record of upholding the Constitution and who had dared to point out the blatant criminal actions by the Obama administration, I believe the Republicans would have won.

So with any luck these numbers will hold, and it will become clear that the big loser here is the Republican establishment, not advocates of limited and responsible government.

Anonymous Noah B. November 07, 2012 10:57 AM  

In which case, we need to start making the case for a change of leadership in the House.

Anonymous DonReynolds November 07, 2012 11:00 AM  

Accepting that your analysis is true, Romney and today's Republicans have no choice than to blame the defeat on none other than Ronald Reagan, who gave amnesty to 4 MILLION hispanics in 1987...who not only voted yesterday but so did all of their anchor babies.

THANK RONALD REAGAN FOR GIVING THE VOTE TO 4 MILLION FIFTH COLUMNISTS IN THIS COUNTRY (AND ALL OF THEIR CHILDREN), RATHER THAN DEPORTING THEM, AS SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE CASE.

Anonymous WG November 07, 2012 11:02 AM  

That’s the way America ends: not with a bang but with a nigger.

Anonymous RINO November 07, 2012 11:03 AM  

Accepting that your analysis is true, Romney and today's Republicans have no choice than to blame the defeat on none other than Ronald Reagan, who gave amnesty to 4 MILLION hispanics in 1987...who not only voted yesterday but so did all of their anchor babies.

They voted Republican though, right? They remembered Reagan was a Republican and gave amnesty so now they vote Republican. So it will work again, right?

Anonymous Noah B. November 07, 2012 11:04 AM  

Ronald Reagan gave amnesty to illegals, banned manufacture of new machine guns that can legally be owned by individuals, and continued the trend of accelerated debt growth that began in earnest under LBJ. It makes me a bit sick every time I hear someone talk about what a hero he was.

Anonymous DonReynolds November 07, 2012 11:04 AM  

Obviously, Ronald Reagan's Hispandering did not make Mexican wetbacks (or even a few of them) into Republican voters, with even an ounce of gratitude for all that the Republicans have done for them. This proves for all Republicans to see that SURRENDER to Mexicans will not be enough to get their votes and any effort to pander to them will not gain their vote but only alienate more American voters in the process.

Anonymous Theophilus November 07, 2012 11:14 AM  

Come on, someone, ANYONE, offer some silver lining or glimpse of hope here! There must be something...somewhere... .

Anonymous Jingleheimer November 07, 2012 11:14 AM  

"You Mongoloid, Mittens signed a gun ban while governor."

BHO will sign one as president.

You can continue to smirk your way right into the concentration camps like kulaks you are. "At least it's not the neocons who are gassing me...the neocons!!!! "

I'm done with you retards.

Anonymous dh November 07, 2012 11:21 AM  

To James Dixon and a few others who really came down on hard, I will simply restate what I wrote before the election

"I support (and endorsed) Pres. Obama for President. I believe that the data indicate he is going to win a narrow but not insignificant victory, and that since Gov. Romney locked up the nomination there have only been a few times that he was in the lead.

However, regarding polls, there is systematic error in the polls, as of right now. They can't all be right. And I see the question as national vs. state polls.

Because if you believe the state polls, Pres. Obama is going to win without much drama. National polls, and tracking polls (taken over multiple days) show this is a popular vote cliff-hanger, with most likely a slight edge for Romney. This is certainly what Gallup and Rasmussen say.

I put weight on the state polls because of the larger sample sizes, shorter time span, and tighter result distribution. Based on those state polls, there is only a small chance that Romney will win. I also find all of the arguments against the polls to be unpersuasive - things like oversampling, intentional bias, or turnout models. These are factors that pollsters have tried to accommodate already, and I find no reason to think that every pollster out there, all of them, have conspired to show Romney losing consistently for a year. There are technical reasons why I disagree with the specific counter-arguments for why the polls are or are not wrong, and I have laid those out where appropriate."

That was my best analysis and I think it was pretty right.

The bigger point I have is that contrary to what Nate and a few others said, the US is not a conservative country. The House, the last bastion of GOP control for now, is only GOP controlled because of intense gerrymandering. (For example, in FL, the vote is split 50/50 between GOP and Democrat, yet the House delegation will be something like 17-to-9 in favor of Republicans. This is 100% gerrymandering. Same story with Texas, California, Illinois, New York (but a little bit less pronounced). 2010 was an outlier - the high turn out for conservatives produced an unnatural ground swell in the already primed mid-term elections against incumbency. The GOP House is still massively unpopular, and despite a smaller majority, it's holding on only because the democratic design of the House was thwarted in 2010 redistricting. 2010 is the outlier - 2006, 2008, and 2012 were all Democratic years, and that's where the country is heading.

The history of the country is what it is. Being from a marginally socialist country is not the end of the world. There are strengths and drawbacks to socialism. There are really nice places to live and raise a family and exist that are socialist, liberal, and don't have the US's historical bent towards conservative values. The country is diverse, and the genie cannot be stuffed back into the bottle.

Blogger CR106 November 07, 2012 11:22 AM  


We should vote everything Democratic from now on. Do not resist. Let all of their wildest dreams come true like Cap and Trade, immigration reform, etc.

Why drag this out? Let the consequences be seen much sooner rather than later.


I like this idea. The collapse has to come. Let it come. I'll be ready.

The other thing that has me down is the realization (finally) that my views are in the minority in the other states in this country. I wonder how people can be that willfully ignorant of the Obama administrations lies about Libya. But I know now. They are purely self-interested.

Anonymous Noah B. November 07, 2012 11:23 AM  

"The country is diverse, and the genie cannot be stuffed back into the bottle."

That's not necessarily true.

Anonymous Anonymous November 07, 2012 11:25 AM  

@VoxDay
What also won it is the Republicans haven't gotten 67% of the non-Latino White vote since President Nixon won it in 1972. President Reagan came close in 1984 with 64% of the White vote. Go to today's article by Peter Brimelow on http://www.vdare.com and click through the links. Romney only got 57% of the White vote. The Republicans need to reach out to Whites as well.

doclove

Blogger CR106 November 07, 2012 11:28 AM  

I hope the Republican party dies a quick death now.

Anonymous DonReynolds November 07, 2012 11:29 AM  

I agree Noah B.......All of these predictions of an inevitable hispanic takeover of the USA should include the words...."IF WE DO NOTHING".

My Scot-Irish relatives are not known for doing nothing when their survival is at stake.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler November 07, 2012 11:29 AM  

I would also concur with Don Reynold about Reagan. He stabbed us in the back. I have come to the conclusion that he is just as bad. I have no more respect for Ronald Reagan, just an old man controlled by his handlers. He was also politically correct. Reagan was bad for the country.

Anonymous dh November 07, 2012 11:31 AM  

That's not necessarily true.

It's 2 and 3 generations deep at this point. They are citizens now. It's over.

Anonymous Holla November 07, 2012 11:33 AM  

I don't think us Hispanics (me included, although I may be the only Mexican who voted for Virgil Goode) voted *for* Obama. We voted *against* Romney.

Hispanics would definitely vote for a Republican. Evangelicals and other Protestants are poaching Catholics, and most first generation Latinos are entering or trying to enter the white-collar work force (whatever is left of it, anyway.)

We simply won't vote for a rich white guy. We won't vote for a party that is run by veiled racists like Rush Limbaugh. And we won't vote for a party that makes it harder for us to send money home.

Now, Latinos on the dole (I know an illegal who immediately got his teeth fixed within a week of being here, and he knew how to do it because the gaming of the system is a shared lesson plan) are on it partially to free up greenbacks to send home to future wetbacks.

The system is open for gaming; but I don't think that the entrenched, normalized immigrants (again, first, second, third generation Latinos) are as committed to sending the money home. They don't want to lose their homes, pay high taxes, or bankroll laziness or chicanery.

Chris Christie is the man to bring the Latinos home. Socially conservative, liberal on immigration, and tough on crime. He'd make a very go El Guapo de la Banana Republicos.

Anonymous DonReynolds November 07, 2012 11:36 AM  

dh.....silly rabbit, we fought a civil war lasting four years against "citizens" who had been here much longer than 2 or 3 generations. It is not over. It may soon be beginning, for much the same cause. Citizens? What the hell is that, when there is no country?

Anonymous WinstonWebb November 07, 2012 11:40 AM  

I guess I'm the only one here that didn't "waste" my vote, since I chose the (lesser evil) Banksta's Bitch over the Banksta.

What's my prize?

Anonymous Cryan Ryan November 07, 2012 11:44 AM  

"Come on, someone, ANYONE, offer some silver lining or glimpse of hope here! There must be something...somewhere... . "

Okay let me cheer you up.

Although my father was an alcoholic who always voted Democrat, he gave me some great advice when I was ranting about future problems of America. He said "Son, I used to worry about the same things, but they didn't come to pass, and probably won't for a long time yet".

He was killed in a car wreck 8 years ago.

In those 8 years, lots of things have happened, but societal collapse did not.

You may be dead and in the ground for a decade or more before this all turns to shit.

Now go have yerself a happy day.




Anonymous VD November 07, 2012 11:51 AM  

And we won't vote for a party that makes it harder for us to send money home.

Exactly. Home. America is not your home. Right there you reveal the essential nature of the problem. Hispanics may be "U.S. citizens", but they'll never be "Americans" who revere "the rights of Englishmen" or the Constitution. How could they? Why would they? They have no historical connection to it or cultural grasp of it. Even the Germans, the Scandinavians, and the Irish never quite understood it after more than 100 years of close proximity to it.

What we're seeing here is normal. It has happened many times before. It's the late-stage, large-scale invasion of a decadent wealthy empire by barbarians seeking better lives who don't understand what made the system work in the first place. It happens to every empire in time, and it is fascinating to watch it take place in real time.

It's not the end of the world, it's simply part of the societal life cycle. Unfortunately, the violent part lies ahead.

Blogger James Dixon November 07, 2012 11:51 AM  

> Being from a marginally socialist country is not the end of the world.

Except it can't be done with our level of military spending. Something will have to give.

> They are citizens now. It's over.

So were Southerners in the 1860's. Until they weren't.

Anonymous dh November 07, 2012 11:54 AM  

It's not the end of the world, it's simply part of the societal life cycle. Unfortunately, the violent part lies ahead.

And that's where we part ways.

Just like your love of history led you wrong on this election, so it's leading you wrong on what comes next.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler November 07, 2012 11:54 AM  

Here it is in a nutshell::::::

(I know an illegal who immediately got his teeth fixed within a week of being here, and he knew how to do it because the gaming of the system is a shared lesson plan)

I'm a Military Veteran. All my fathers on my Greek side served in the Military. My Adopted Family can trace their roots to the Mayflower. I served in two combat theatres in time of war. I sacrificed 6 years of my life for this country.

I have a broken tooth.

An illegal immigrant gets his teeth fixed.

enuf said.

F()^&^ you all. F#$%# this country.

Nor do I think I need my tooth fixed by the government dole. But the audacity and the idiocy, an illegal immigrant can get his teeth fixed on the taxpayer dime---while a US Military Veteran has poor teeth.

That says it all.

Anonymous Fish Freakin' Tacos November 07, 2012 11:59 AM  

"Holla November 07, 2012 11:33 AM I don't think us Hispanics (me included, although I may be the only Mexican who voted for Virgil Goode) voted *for* Obama. We voted *against* Romney.

Hispanics would definitely vote for a Republican. Evangelicals and other Protestants are poaching Catholics, and most first generation Latinos are entering or trying to enter the white-collar work force (whatever is left of it, anyway.)

We simply won't vote for a rich white guy. We won't vote for a party that is run by veiled racists like Rush Limbaugh. And we won't vote for a party that makes it harder for us to send money home.

Now, Latinos on the dole (I know an illegal who immediately got his teeth fixed within a week of being here, and he knew how to do it because the gaming of the system is a shared lesson plan) are on it partially to free up greenbacks to send home to future wetbacks.

The system is open for gaming; but I don't think that the entrenched, normalized immigrants (again, first, second, third generation Latinos) are as committed to sending the money home. They don't want to lose their homes, pay high taxes, or bankroll laziness or chicanery.

Chris Christie is the man to bring the Latinos home. Socially conservative, liberal on immigration, and tough on crime. He'd make a very go El Guapo de la Banana Republicos."


Holla, you certainly seem to like to use the word "home" a lot. Why don't you GO "home"?

Oh. Maybe because "home" is a cesspool of poverty & corruption?



Anonymous Fish Freakin' Tacos November 07, 2012 12:03 PM  

VD beat me to it.

Anonymous Canuck November 07, 2012 12:06 PM  

I wonder when people will drop the hope that Republicans are going to win the hispanic vote. John McCain, head cheerleader of the 2006 amnesty bill, lost the hispanic vote. Livelihood will always trump the drug war and abortion. Time to face reality.

Exactly. White people are so stupid trying to out pander the pandering party. The US is toast as no Republican (unless left of center) and definitely no Conservative will ever hold the Presidency again. The visual yesterday and some of the commentary in major news outlets gleefully acknowledging the death of the "lily white" GOP was beyond sickening.

Gosh, non whites vote for their ethnic interests! I'm shocked!!!!

Anonymous rienzi November 07, 2012 12:08 PM  

Theophilus said: Come on, someone, ANYONE, offer some silver lining or glimpse of hope here! There must be something...somewhere...

Thank goodness, now we can get rid of all those icky old white guys.

I for one, am happy to know that in the future the power grid, and sewer systems will be run by wise Latinas. What's a few days without electricity or toilets when you can bask in the realisation that the little mestiza, who used to put the chocolate on your pillow at the hotel, is now in a position of real authority? Celebrate Diversity!

Furthermore, only the worst kind of racist could object to D'Quan being lifted from streetcorner crack dealer to air traffic controller. What's a few spectacular crashes compared to the wiping out of four hundred years of oppression? Forward!

Anonymous Josh November 07, 2012 12:08 PM  

Chris Christie is the man to bring the Latinos home. Socially conservative, liberal on immigration, and tough on crime. He'd make a very go El Guapo de la Banana Republicos.

Christie is a liberal.

Anonymous Cheddarman November 07, 2012 12:09 PM  

Vox,

Are you still holding to your 2033 date for the demise of the USA?

Sincerely

Cheddarman

Anonymous Brendan November 07, 2012 12:10 PM  

And that's where we part ways.

Just like your love of history led you wrong on this election, so it's leading you wrong on what comes next.


Even if it isn't a violent future, the future is that the United States as it has existed heretofore will cease to exist in anything but name only.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera November 07, 2012 12:11 PM  

Theosophilus,

Hope might be too strong of a word...but here you go.

Anonymous Canuck November 07, 2012 12:12 PM  

What we're seeing here is normal. It has happened many times before. It's the late-stage, large-scale invasion of a decadent wealthy empire by barbarians seeking better lives who don't understand what made the system work in the first place. It happens to every empire in time, and it is fascinating to watch it take place in real time.

Normal yet sickening to those of us that see it and know history. Having to listen to the inanity of "diversity is strength", thank God that died a while ago. It is fascinating though and I hope I am around to see the next stages.

Anonymous WinstonWebb November 07, 2012 12:15 PM  

Do you guys want to know the only viable (non-violent) solution that is remaining?

Embrace Left-Liberalism. Seek out the most leftist, hardcore variety you can find and vote for it every chance you get.

It should be obvious to all but the most obtuse observers that the "slowing down the bus" strategy is not going to work; it never had any hope of working.

So step on the accelerator, and step on it HARD.

Anonymous JartStar November 07, 2012 12:16 PM  

Here's the info on taxes:

2012
Capital Gains (Long-Term) 15%
Dividend (Highest Rate) 24.6%

2013
Capital Gains (Long-Term)23.8%
Dividend (Highest Rate) 43.4%

Good luck making money on dividends with a 43.4% tax rate and in equities with a 23.8% rate!

This could cause a muni bond bubble.

Anonymous Noah B. November 07, 2012 12:26 PM  

"Christie is a liberal."

Maybe, but Obama's not half the man Christie is.

Anonymous Tad November 07, 2012 12:28 PM  

""Christie is a liberal."

Maybe, but Obama's not half the man Christie is."

Actually, it appears that Obama may weigh in at exactly half the man as Christie, depending on what Christie ate for dinner last night

Anonymous The One November 07, 2012 12:32 PM  

Rienzi, the women will get better looking, that's the upside

Anonymous rienzi November 07, 2012 12:33 PM  

dh said: There are really nice places to live and raise a family and exist that are socialist, liberal, and don't have the US's historical bent towards conservative values.

Yes, Marin County, and the upper west side of New York, are very nice, sophisticated places. I would certainly like to have a good wine in one of their many fine restaurants.

However, unfortunately, I don't have a seven figure bank account. The "liberal" and "socialist" areas in the, thankfully distant, general vicinity of my current residence, look either like the tackier parts of Lagos, Nigeria, or the slums of Tijuana.

So would you please just give us a short listing of any half-way affordable, liberal, socialist nirvanas. By the way, they really do have to be here in the US. Nice, foreign, liberal, socialist nirvanas don't count, as they won't let you in. I know, I've tried. They pretty much have their affirmative action hats on.

Anonymous Josh November 07, 2012 12:34 PM  

Remember in 2004 when the media was keeping tabs on Al Gore's weight? I wonder if fox news is going to set up a similar thing on Christie.

Anonymous WaterBoy November 07, 2012 12:34 PM  

W.LindsayWheeler: "Nor do I think I need my tooth fixed by the government dole."

Going OT here for a second, but there are options other than the dole for getting your tooth fixed. Here in Colorado, for example, there's the annual Colorado Mission of Mercy Dental Clinic, which offers free dental care to those who cannot afford it (including veterans and immigrants alike). And while it may not help you where you presently reside, there might be something similar there.

But I do agree with the gist of your expressed outrage.

Blogger James Dixon November 07, 2012 12:45 PM  

> Here's the info on taxes:

And the stock market is voting on that at this very moment.

The Dow is down almost 300.

Anonymous RINO November 07, 2012 12:46 PM  

Romney was my last hope. I'm done with this crap. I'm going to throw in with you guys, who has firearm recommendations?

Anonymous JartStar November 07, 2012 12:46 PM  

BTW the Princeton Election Consortium completely nailed it. It's my go to place for the future. I'll just ignore everything and look at the numbers.

http://election.princeton.edu/2012/11/06/presidential-prediction-2012-final/

Anonymous rienzi November 07, 2012 12:50 PM  

The One said: Rienzi, the women will get better looking, that's the upside.

Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and all that, but squat, mustachioed brown dwarves, and obese gorillas really don't do it for me.

Anonymous The One November 07, 2012 12:51 PM  

So can we conclude the fourth turning intergenerational dynamics are over? The prophet (Romney), would have been elected, but the wildcard Hispanics who are not part of the previous turnings stopped him. And if those dynamics are no longer the dominant theme, than can we also conclude that this is no longer a white country despite whites still being the majority?

Anonymous rienzi November 07, 2012 1:00 PM  

Rino said: Romney was my last hope. I'm done with this crap. I'm going to throw in with you guys, who has firearm recommendations?

Any of the 12 gauge Mossberg 500 series that are intended for self-defense,(We're not hunting birds here), is a pretty good place to start.

Anonymous The One November 07, 2012 1:00 PM  

Rienzi, Mexican women on average weigh over 10LBS less than American women, but gain weight when they come to America. So you have to catch them as soon as they cross the border. Still fat though.

median figures for Mexican women are 151 pounds

while the average women in the neighboring country weighs 165 pounds.

The figures released on Wednesday do not include data from other countries, but if these averages are compared with Mexico's northern neighbor, Mexicans are shorter than Americans and they weigh about 22 pounds less, on average.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/health/2012/02/09/how-big-is-mexico-study-looks-at-height-weight/

Anonymous Daniel November 07, 2012 1:02 PM  

So can we conclude the fourth turning intergenerational dynamics are over? The prophet (Romney), would have been elected, but the wildcard Hispanics who are not part of the previous turnings stopped him. And if those dynamics are no longer the dominant theme, than can we also conclude that this is no longer a white country despite whites still being the majority?

That's a good question. I'd go a step further and question if such a result actually invalidates the intergenerational dynamics theory, because you can't safely account for immigration of contraindicating turnings into a country (The Fourth Turning authors are clear: different nation groups and major societies are on different generational cycles).

Indeed, 1st generation Hispanics are the result of Central America's, and probably more specifically Mexico's, own generational cycles. They, at the very least, would bring a "turning modifier" with them, yes? And at most, they would, in fact be the cultural cataclysm that thrusts a society into its Crisis phase.

I suppose a case could be made that the 4th Turning has ended in societal dissolution, which was always a possibility.

The Prophet Thwarted would make a great book title.

Anonymous 11B November 07, 2012 1:09 PM  

It's evident that for 58% of the white vote, political power on a national level is now out of reach. However, this group can still exercise enormous influence in the one area that they truly dominate, economics. There is little doubt that this group pays more of the tax burden than the other side. They make more of the purchases in the market place than the other side. The other side could not maintain their standard of living without this group.

So why won't this group exercise their economic power? I've seen others suggest before that people, especially Christians, should stay away from Christmas for one season and watch the economy crater. If you are a true Christian, why do you need to buy presents? I believe you could still celebrate the Birth of Christ without indulging in presents bought from those merchants who will only greet you with the obnoxious 'Seasons Greetings' anyway.

Also, why would you want to help out a store like Walmart who has done so much to offshore American jobs to China while providing ample janitorial work to illegal infiltrators (thanks for that term Israel)?

By not partaking in Christmas gift giving, not only would you be sticking it those stores, but you would cause the markets to tumble and might help provide the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back.

People keep telling us the system is going to collapse. I've been hearing that since even before 2007. Yet Jason lives and it looks like the Fed will keep chugging along. Maybe a decent economic shock of decreased consumer spending this December might put him down for good. After all, we can't move to the next stage of history until this current phase is put to rest.

It wouldn't even take all of the 58% or even a majority of them to accomplish an effective strike. After all, look at how many minority groups have used boycotts and the threat of boycotts to get their way.


Blogger swiftfoxmark2 November 07, 2012 1:14 PM  

I think there are enough votes to be had for Republicans to win, the trouble is they have been really good at not inspiring anyone to vote for them in the past few election cycles.

President Obama is, at best, a mediocre president. He has made no significant dent in the economic or societal problems that we face today and has spent more time vacationing than any other president. I doubt that most of the major decisions he's made were his, but more than likely his handlers'.

Mitt Romney had a really good shot at winning. I mean it should have been 55-45 if Romney had not thought the whole thing was in the bag. Instead he alienated a large group of voters, namely the Ron Paul supporters, he played it safe, and he let Democrats play their same social issues cards.

To sum up: the Romney campaign was doomed from the start as his best strategy was to say that he wasn't Obama. And hatred only gets you so far.

Anonymous The One November 07, 2012 1:16 PM  

11B, the answer is simple- lack of character. If white men can't organize and go on a marriage strike, then white women (who control more purchasing power) can't control their spending habits. Christians, the same ones who equate fornicators and adulterers with widows, and then call them all single moms? Misplaced hope my friend.

Anonymous DonReynolds November 07, 2012 1:18 PM  

Trying to be as respectful as I can afford to Vox, but I wish to disagree regarding the role of the hispanic vote in 2012 in the Obama win. (Of course, Florida is still being determined, to my knowledge.) Specifically....

1. Every state that voted Republican in 2008 also voted Republican in 2012, with the additions of North Carolina and Indiana, which voted for Obama in 2008 only. (This is a loss of 26 electoral votes for Obama.)

2. The Democrat states of Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, New Jersey and Washington lost one electoral vote each from 2008 to 2012. New York lost two electoral votes. Only Nevada gained an electoral vote. (This is a net loss to Obama of another seven electoral votes.)

3. The Republican states of Utah, Arizona, Nebraska, Georgia, and South Carolina each gained one electoral vote between 2008 and 2012. Texas picked up four more electoral votes. Only the Republican states of Missouri and Louisiana lost one electoral vote. (This is a net gain for Republicans of seven electoral votes.)

There are NO STATES that Obama carried in 2012, that he did not already carry in 2008. There is no evidence thus far that the hispanic vote had any net effect on the electoral votes won by the Democrat, except for the one EV in Nevada. There is ample evidence that suggests that the four additional EV in Texas and single EV in Arizona, Utah, Nebraska, Georgia, South Carolina are all or nearly all due to the additional hispanic populations in those states. All of which were added to Romney's EV, and not Obama's.

From these facts, we can conclude that the hispanic vote effect on the 2012 election for Obama was ZERO or negative. It may be actually be negative because while the hispanic vote handily delivered Florida to Obama in 2008, it could not in 2012. It may be negative because the hispanic vote in Indiana and North Carolina (which is significant) did not prevent Republican victories there in 2012.

The fact that large majorities of hispanic voters voted for Obama (and even larger majorities of black voters), does not mean that they decide the outcome of presidential elections. States with the largest percentage of blacks and hispanics are in the South and Southwest. With the exception of New Mexico and California, these states voted Republican. How is this possible? Because over 70 percent of voters are white, non-hispanic and when they are in agreement, they decide the outcome of elections, no matter what the minorities decide.

Blogger john November 07, 2012 1:22 PM  

Rino said: Romney was my last hope. I'm done with this crap. I'm going to throw in with you guys, who has firearm recommendations?


Sig Sauer 556 or AR-15 or AK-47 depending on your preferences
Remington 870 - standard. no home should be without one
Browning .308 A-bolt is a good choice

Anonymous The One November 07, 2012 1:26 PM  

Daniel, awesome book title indeed. The numbers are probably around 80% and 10%. Once the majority falls below that or a minority increases past that number,the dynamics no longer apply. If one was smart, they could look for a country coming into an generational upswing and move there. Russia for example had their crisis in the 90's and now it seems to be coming into an upswing with economic growth from natural resources, religion a growing force (morality) and beautiful women. The only problem is that they are very close to the 80% cut off with the native Russian population at 80.9%

Blogger Vidad November 07, 2012 1:30 PM  

Speaking of firearms, I'm celebrating the return of the Mocha Messiah down here in FL!

http://dronesofdeath.blogspot.com/2012/11/obama-wins.html

Blogger Vidad November 07, 2012 1:34 PM  

WG "That’s the way America ends: not with a bang but with a nigger."

I will not laugh out loud... I will not laugh out loud... I will not...

LOL

Anonymous Anonymous November 07, 2012 1:43 PM  

Vox, do you think the dollar will lose its world currency status on Obama's watch? And if so, do you think hispanics will want to stay here in the aftermath of the economic devatation that will cause?

Anonymous ODG November 07, 2012 1:54 PM  

The real question will be: "Will the coming tyrannical government allow the hispanics to leave?

Blogger Nate November 07, 2012 2:01 PM  

From Nashville to Mobile... southern talk radio is lighting up with secession talk folks. There is a small fire burning today.

We just need to stoke it.

We are setting up a PAC to do just that.

Anonymous T14 November 07, 2012 2:05 PM  

In light of all of this prediction talk I'm curious when you fine folks think the following will occur -

The banning of guns

The opening of gulags

The break-up of the U.S.

The eventual rise of the technocratic Cascadian Empire. All hail the Evergreen!

Anonymous Noah B. November 07, 2012 2:16 PM  

"From Nashville to Mobile... southern talk radio is lighting up with secession talk folks. There is a small fire burning today."

Yesterday's electoral map looks a lot like 1861.

Anonymous Anonymous November 07, 2012 2:20 PM  

Nate said, "From Nashville to Mobile... southern talk radio is lighting up with secession talk folks. There is a small fire burning today.

We just need to stoke it."

Let it burn higher and higher! But this shouldn't simply be about the South anymore; all the people of the states of the union who still give a rip about what's left of the ordered liberty of our ancestors, from South Carolina to Montana, ought to be blazing hot. Let this flawed paradigm of an increasingly despotic and tyrannical consolidated union (Thank you, General Lee!) go into the dustbin of history.

So, yes, Deo Vindice to ol' Dixie, but my hat's off to any of the other states outside of the South who wish "Mordor on the Potomac" to the Perdition it deserves!

Regards,
David Smith
Tennessee

Anonymous A Visitor November 07, 2012 2:21 PM  

Come on, someone, ANYONE, offer some silver lining or glimpse of hope here! There must be something...somewhere... .

If it's any consolation, I just heard Limbaugh an hour ago offer the best defense of our principles: he asked if we need to embrace illegals and open the borders to anyone who wants to come, etc.

Long story short: demographics is destiny. I've known that since I was about 22 (and finally "woke up") and I'm 25 now. Though Romney lost, it felt good to send a @#$! you to Dear Leader, et al.

I say we just focus on doing what we can at the local level. To echo others' points about Holla, why don't you go home then? Oh yeah, that's right, you like the high standard of life we provide for you here.

As a parting note (I've seen one other person give their race/religion), I'm a non-Hispanic white, Catholic and extremely conservative.

Anonymous A Visitor November 07, 2012 2:22 PM  

The silver lining in question is that Dear Leader and the Left's Keynesian economics policies, liberal tolerance of illegals and national question ambiguity goes away.

Anonymous Stickwick November 07, 2012 2:28 PM  

And his electorate wasn't terribly enthusiastic either. His Jewish and female votes were down, both percentage and overall numbers.

His overall overall numbers are significantly down. Obama 2012 just barely edged out McCain 2008. Obama 2012 got 60.2M popular votes, but in 2008 he got 69.4M. McCain got 59.9M in 2008, while Romney got 57.4M. Obama dropped almost 14% in the popular vote between 2008 and 2012, while the Republican candidate dropped only 4%. There is some voter apathy on both sides, especially when you consider that the overall pool of voters should have increased since 2008. The reasons for Obama's drop are obvious. I believe Romney lost because he shut out the Ron Paul, small government, libertarian-type voters. They simply stayed home, and that made a significant difference.

What will be interesting to see is if the Republican establishment figures this out and decides to implement a major shift in their appeal to this lost demographic or if they continue to do the same thing only harder next time.

Anonymous Stickwick November 07, 2012 2:31 PM  

The banning of guns

Ain't gonna happen. Support for gun control is at an all-time historical low. They'd be utter fools to even try. Which of course doesn't mean they won't, but any attempt will be a non-starter.

Blogger Nate November 07, 2012 2:31 PM  

"So, yes, Deo Vindice to ol' Dixie, but my hat's off to any of the other states outside of the South who wish "Mordor on the Potomac" to the Perdition it deserves!"

We will be advocating for Self Determination David. For everyone. Not just for the South.

Anonymous jack November 07, 2012 2:35 PM  

What I can't understand is why the GOP has not filed multiple lawsuits demanding recounts in all the close states. Its what the dems would do. Why can't the Republicans grow a pair for once and treat the elections like they mean it. If we can put up with democrat crap most every election some of that should be slung back. Who knows, Allen West might be right; 'I want a recount.'

Blogger James Dixon November 07, 2012 2:38 PM  

> Support for gun control is at an all-time historical low.

Support for the bailouts was low. Support for ObamaCare was low. But what did we get?

> Which of course doesn't mean they won't, but any attempt will be a non-starter.

Until Obama gets done putting in his Supreme Court appointees, possibly. After that, who knows? But he isn't above issuing an executive order to seize guns, ignoring any intermediate court orders countermanding him, and seizing the guns while the case works it's way through the system.

Blogger Nate November 07, 2012 2:38 PM  

Here's the first hint of the plan

Add to run in the Red States will be like this: You're hurt. You're dejected. You've lost faith. And everywhere people tell you to get over it. "That's how the system works! Get over it!" they shout. Well what if it didn't have to be that way? What if there was a new system? What if you had say?"

In the blue states the ads would be totally different. They would focus on the frustrations of obstruction. "Wouldn't it be nice of the government could actually get something done? Wouldn't it be nice if we could end all the bickering and partisanship? Why should those who only want to stand in the way be handed so much power? Its time for a new system."

So you'd have a two pronged PR attack. One side saying, "Hey you aren't crazy. You're not the only one that feels like this. Its ok. Tomorrow will rock if we do this!" The blue states will be more like... "We don't need these people! They just get in the way! Tomorrow will rock if we do this!"

hey.. who doesn't want tomorrow to rock?

Now... its true... donations will be funneled into a paramilitary organization that will be preparing to launch a full scale war on the US....

Just kidding.

Seriously!!!

Just kidding!

Anonymous jack November 07, 2012 2:40 PM  

Stickwick November 07, 2012 2:28 PM

I agree with Stickwick. What a stupid, stupid thing to do at the convention. The R's just wanted to lose, I suppose. The Ron Paul folks are high octane. I almost did not vote because of the convention shutout. I voted because of the fear I have of another 4 with the dems.

Anonymous Stickwick November 07, 2012 2:42 PM  

Come on, someone, ANYONE, offer some silver lining or glimpse of hope here! There must be something...somewhere... .

Do not despair, the election unfolded as it should have. Romney had to lose. If he'd won, it would have been an even bigger disaster in the long term than Obama will be. There are two very bad things on the horizon that are nigh inevitable: the U.S. will go over a financial cliff and something will happen between Israel and Iran. We definitely want a Democrat in office when those things happen. Obama and his people will bungle their response to this so badly that it will thoroughly discredit the Democrats. You don't want this bad stuff to taint Republicans, because there is still some hope for the Republican party.

People who are upset about last night's result are taking the short view. There is an alternative to both Obama and establishment dinks like Romney, but it's not a quick and easy one. All you have to do is look at what happened with the corrupt Conservatives in Canada. When I was still living in Canada in the mid-1990s, the Canadian Conservative Party had become even more thoroughly discredited and scandalized than our own RINO Party. They were called the Red Tories, because they went so far to the left that people joked they were practical communists. Truly conservative Canadians were abandoning them, and meanwhile there was an emergent movement forming in the backwater province of Alberta. This movement was called the Reform Party. It got a foothold in Canadian politics by governing effectively wherever it got a little power, and it eventually became so influential in Canadian politics that Reformers infiltrated the old, corrupt Conservative Party and took it over. The current Conservative Party is really the Reform Party, just rebranded with the old name, and Reformers now comprise the majority in Canadian government. Canada is at its core a liberal/progressive country, far more so than the U.S. The fact that it now has a relatively conservative majority government indicates that such a shift is still more than possible in the U.S. But we're going to have to endure some more anguish before this can happen. Romney wasn't the right man. He had to lose for there to be any chance of things improving in the longer term. Be of good cheer.

Anonymous Clay November 07, 2012 2:43 PM  

" Nate November 07, 2012 2:31 PM

We will be advocating for Self Determination David. For everyone. Not just for the South."


Won't you have to establish borders for a territory / country where these folks who choose Self Determination will reside? Surely, they will have to be segregated from those sheep who prefer to remain on the Fed's teat.


Anonymous Sheila November 07, 2012 2:46 PM  

What is the "minority" population of Italy, Vox? Any signs of a Golden Dawn type group emerging there? Last night my husband said (only half in jest) that perhaps I should, after all, look into getting foreign passports for the family. According to info online, he may well qualify for Italian citizenship (all his maternal great-grandparents were Italian citizens and I don't believe any of them were ever naturalized). Interesting, exciting, and a bit scary to consider.

Blogger Nate November 07, 2012 2:57 PM  

Clay... look at the south. look at the vote differences in GA and AL and TN... then compare them to NY or MA.

The separation already exists.

Anonymous JI November 07, 2012 3:09 PM  

"This demographic shift indicates that no candidate can expect to run on a Constitutional platform ever again, and appears to seal the irrelevance of the document that George W. Bush once dismissed as a worthless piece of paper."

So are you saying that bringing in millions of folks from a culture that is extremely far from that of the enlightenment-era English who founded the US isn't helping? Who'd have thought it!

Anonymous Porky? November 07, 2012 3:17 PM  

Come on, someone, ANYONE, offer some silver lining or glimpse of hope here! There must be something...somewhere...

Well, it's shown us that superintelligence without wisdom is indistinguishable from foolishness.

Anonymous Daniel November 07, 2012 3:18 PM  

Won't you have to establish borders for a territory / country where these folks who choose Self Determination will reside? Surely, they will have to be segregated from those sheep who prefer to remain on the Fed's teat.

Think, Clay, think: after all, many of the Confederate States were slave states. Self-determination is exactly that: some will self-determine, some will be happy to rely on the charity of the self-determined (whatever that might be) and those who desperately need a system to game will have to find it somewhere else.

The "borders" will naturally align. The Marxist MidNorth Collective (Minnesota, Wisky, Michigan, Iowa, Illinois) will get their dysfunctional marching orders from Chicago and St. Paul. They'll have a lot of emigrants. The Independent Plains will enter a weak alliance with the Southrons. Mexazona will be a colorful, vibrant land of fried food and somewhat inelegant race wars. The Northwest Asian Hivemind will hive its mind to a zen like and restrictive worker's paradise. Think Blade Runner.

No one will know what became of the original New England colonies. They'll be overtaxed wastelands, dependent on the whims of a madman, chuckling to himself in the unstaffed halls of the White House.

At least, I'm pretty sure Obama doesn't have the bottle or the capital to strategize the entire country into a shaky and desperate global union. I'm equally sure that Romney did.

Anonymous Clay November 07, 2012 3:19 PM  

"Nate November 07, 2012 2:57 PM Clay... look at the south. look at the vote differences in GA and AL and TN... then compare them to NY or MA.

The separation already exists."


I'm with ya there....the borders of the original Confederacy would be fine by me. We could even do without a few of those.

I was just alluding to the fact that there will probably have to be some "relocating" done (I think they might have some more sinister phrases for that now). And, I'm sure it wouldn't all be voluntary.

Anonymous Salt November 07, 2012 3:23 PM  

barbarians seeking better lives who don't understand what made the system work in the first place.

Bingo. Add them into the progressive 'vibrancy is strength' left who seek a base of sycophants and it's good night Irene.



Anonymous DonReynolds November 07, 2012 3:24 PM  

Forget the hispanic vote, the black vote, and the youth vote. These are all tiny by comparison to the white women vote. White women elected Obama in 2008 and they did not get enough by 2012, so they voted for him again.

The Republipukes make all this too easy for Obama by nominating determined and outspoken Pro-Life candidates for the ticket. This was the slop offered to the Religious Right wing of the party. Nobody seriously believes Romney or Ryan will even get to venture an opinion on overturning Roe v Wade, so all it managed to do is hand the Democrats the only wedge issue they needed to pry away the biggest voting block in the entire election.....non-hispanic, white women. I am not even surprised it worked perfectly for them.

Now the Religious Right can spend the next four years saying they voted Pro-Life and acted on their moral beliefs while Obama robs the rest of us and rapes the Constitution. Thanks for what turns out to be nothing.

Anonymous Daniel November 07, 2012 3:27 PM  

Well, it's shown us that superintelligence without wisdom is indistinguishable from foolishness.

Speak for yourself. Folks smarter than you have no problem distinguishing between two such opposite things as well-founded predictions that miss the mark and, say, foolish punchlines employed by idiots.

Your inability to distinguish is not a universal experience. That puts you somewhere around the fat tummy of the bell curve.

Anonymous Brendan November 07, 2012 3:32 PM  

Forget the hispanic vote, the black vote, and the youth vote. These are all tiny by comparison to the white women vote.

It's single white women. Married white women vote more mixed -- more democratic than married white men, but not nearly as democratic as single white women. There's a big marriage gap in voting currently.

Anonymous Porky? November 07, 2012 3:34 PM  

well-founded predictions that miss the mark

Lol. A "well-founded" building that topples over is not "well-founded" is it, genius?

Anonymous WinstonWebb November 07, 2012 3:38 PM  

all it managed to do is hand the Democrats the only wedge issue they needed to pry away the biggest voting block in the entire election.....non-hispanic, white women.

REASON NUMBER 1 that Amendment 19 was the harbinger of the end of American culture. Enfranchising such murderous barbarians who make an infanticide ritual their sacred cow is continuing to be the gift that keeps on killing.

Anonymous Daniel November 07, 2012 3:39 PM  

I was just alluding to the fact that there will probably have to be some "relocating" done (I think they might have some more sinister phrases for that now). And, I'm sure it wouldn't all be voluntary.

I have family who left Iowa for rural Arkansas (in the shadow of The Flippin Church of God, I kid you not) and the woman has probably never voted anything but liberal her entire life. Her husband is straight-up, screw politics, libertarian carpenter, through and through. She thinks it is funny that the majority of people she knows have such whacko ideas, but sure as hell doesn't want any more yankees coming down and ruining her peace, because a lot of them (unlike her, she thinks) just don't "get it."

So, I think most independent homogeneous countries can tolerate, accept, protect and support harmless screwballs in their midst, as long as they can abide by social rules, and she certainly has no problem doing that. I mean, as long as the goofy, opinionated Jayhawker can pull his own weight and doesn't whine for social engineering every time he feels bad about imaginary people, no one's going to shoot him in the head.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner November 07, 2012 3:48 PM  

"no candidate can expect to run on a Constitutional platform ever again"

And they never should have run on that screed of the American coup d'état.

The Articles of Confederation was the original founding document other than the Declaration of Independence.

I do declare, a Confederate Party, may be in order !!

Blogger CR106 November 07, 2012 3:50 PM  

REASON NUMBER 1 that Amendment 19 was the harbinger of the end of American culture. Enfranchising such murderous barbarians who make an infanticide ritual their sacred cow is continuing to be the gift that keeps on killing.

My wife agreed that she would be just fine leaving the politics to me. She hates it when I even talk about it. Of course, that intones more responsibility on the men because they are voting for the whole family, not their selfish selves. And that's the whole point isn't it? We have a voting system that panders to the narcissistic instead of the responsible.

To quote Stan Lee: "With great power comes great responsibility..."

But I like Jesus' quote better:
" For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

Anonymous Anonymous November 07, 2012 3:52 PM  

Apart from the big-city blue counties, Harris (Houston), Dallas (DFW), Travis (Austin), and Bexar (San Antonio), most of the state is red, except along the Rio Grande. Perhaps there's something in the water.

I explained this on an earlier thread. People from Mexico, from Central America, come from a different culture. They bring that culture with them. That culture is of a strong, central, authority that looks more like feudal Spain than England post 1215 AD. They come from states that are essentially one-party governments. Therefore, they are natural Democrats, and they vote the party always.

Look at those counties from El Paso to Brownsville. In every one of them , the GOP either is hanging on by a thread or does not exist at all. Demographics matter. The 1965 Ted Kennedy immigration act, the 1986 Reagan amnesty (and all the mini amnesties that followed for 15 or more years) teed up the ball.

It is possible that, given time and normal acculturation, many of these people's children or grandchildren would become Republican. But as lon as the endless chain migration from Latin America continues, that won't happen.

Look at the California election returns. Study them in detail. California is one version of the future - the coastal, SWPL rich ally with the marginally literate immigrants (legal and illegal) in the cities, along with homosexual groups and single mothers, to dominate the shrinking middle class.

One more thing Vox did not think of: the decline in educational standards must of necessity drive the campaign. Who here thought that the "Julia" ad was an insult to their intelligence? It was pitched perfectly to a key segment of Obama voters. Who here thought the Dunham "your first time" ad was creepy and also an insult to the inteligence? It, too, was pitched perfectly to a key segment of Obama voters. Who here finds the notion of "Obama phones" to be stupid and an insult to the intelligence? A key Obama voter group likes Obama phones, and wants their own.

It is likely that the peak SAT scores were achieved some time in the 1960's, maybe even in 1965 (that would be ironic) and it's been down hill ever since, with all sorts of games played to cover that up. Intelligence is a mix of nature and nurture - it is possible to take native intelligence and damage it, given enough time and enough brain-numbing, pubic-school pap. Take people who are not all that intelligent by nature, and they won't be very smart at the other end of the K-12 pipeline.

I was driving through El Paso back in the 1990's, either the '92 or the '96 election. I heard a radio ad that went something like this: "This election, vote the right way. Vote for the Democrats. Pull the red lever. Your family wants you to". Not exactly the sort of thing envisioned in the Federalist Papers, eh?

In 2016, the voters will not be smarter than in 2012, as an aggregate. They will be dumber, as a group. Campaigns will plan accordingly, if they want to win. Ads like the "Julia" video will be standard. Explaining the tax on cap gains will be pointless, because many voters do not pay any tax aside from FICA, and they don't understand capital gains anyway. But pitching cap gains taxpayers as "rich guys who don't pay taxes" will be easy.

Demographics, including single mothers, and decline of educational standards, coupled with race-based tribalism has changed the very concept of "election". A Balkanized, race-based spoils system lies in the not too distant future; some would say it is here, now.

Anonymous JartStar November 07, 2012 3:58 PM  

For so many here claiming to be libertarians and/or Romney is just as bad or worse, it's odd that so many are upset. If Romney would have been as bad or worse, then your life hasn't changed one bit now that big O is back in the saddle.

Blogger CR106 November 07, 2012 3:59 PM  

Except for the gun bans, and the new taxes, and the false flags, and the destruction of the dollar...

OpenID ZT November 07, 2012 4:04 PM  

@JartStar,

I think many of us would have been angry either way. I know I would. If anything this win for Obama just highlights that we are that must demographically closer to death.

On the bright side, evangelical inroads on Hispanics may eventually change the dynamic yet again, but for now the demographic shift is in the Democrats favor as many of the Hispanics want/use the entitlement system.

Once Hispanics become stable and start becoming more successful they may change their tune with regards to how much the government takes.

Blogger Vidad November 07, 2012 4:08 PM  

Lysander Spooner: ""no candidate can expect to run on a Constitutional platform ever again"

And they never should have run on that screed of the American coup d'état.

The Articles of Confederation was the original founding document other than the Declaration of Independence.
"

Damn right.

Anonymous Anonymous November 07, 2012 4:35 PM  

zt
On the bright side, evangelical inroads on Hispanics may eventually change the dynamic yet again, but for now the demographic shift is in the Democrats favor as many of the Hispanics want/use the entitlement system.

Do not casually assume that "evangelical" means the same thing in Mexico, or Guatamala, or El Salvador, or Costa Rica, etc. as it does in the white part of Alabama. I've pointed out the growing popularity of "Santa Muerte" in Mexico - search on that and see if you like the idea of your neighbors worshipping it. Now I'll point out what some missionaries have told me.

"Evangelical" in Central America tends to be very emotionally driven. But it's in the Hispanic mode. The biggest evangelical church south of the Rio Grande is probably the one in Guatamala City, it is a megachurch by any standard. Joel Osteen would probably find it a bit too small, but any other megachurch preacher would like it. In these churches, the pastor is like a little Pope. He's the one who interprets what the Bible says, and he also will interpret dreams and visions as well, in many churches. Including visions that people have as part of the church service, when they fall down and speak in tounges. This is not a doctrine of self help, this is a doctrine closer to the "prosperity gospel" so popular in many black communities of the US.

A couple of missionaries to Mexico that I know have very mixed emotions about their work. On the one hand, they are helping some very poor people - they have recently been collecting used sewing machines to take with them to the poor mountain people, where the women sew all the clothing by hand. On the other hand, they can't help but wonder why it is that middle class American evangelicals have to be the ones to scrounge used sewing machines to haul over 200 miles into Mexico to give to poor Mexicans, when there are evangelical Mexican churches a lot closer. There's a certain "Let Whitey Do It" mentality that they encounter; "rabbiblancos arriba", i.e. you help those poor Indios, so we don't have to.

Bottom line: as I said before, don't expect Hispanic evangelicals to look like white evangelicals except superficially.

Once Hispanics become stable and start becoming more successful they may change their tune with regards to how much the government takes.

I agree that this could, and should, happen but so long as there is endless chain migration from the South, the supply of poor, illiterate, one-party voters never will run low. Yet the one issue that Hispanics aside from Cubans are united on is this: amnesty now, and easier immigration later.

Ted Kennedy killed my country. He had a lot of help, but he did more than any other man. Between the 1965 national suicide pact, and his work to create HMO's that has led inexorably to Obamacare, he killed the country I grew up in. Killed it dead.

Anonymous Daniel November 07, 2012 4:43 PM  

JartStarFor so many here claiming to be libertarians and/or Romney is just as bad or worse, it's odd that so many are upset. If Romney would have been as bad or worse, then your life hasn't changed one bit now that big O is back in the saddle.

I don't know. A lot of the worriers aren't necessarily libertarians, and many voted for Romney. So they cared and there is nothing inconsistent with their disappointment. All I know is I truly didn't and don't care. I can't begin to predict which unworthy enabler would have been worse, but however the despotism progresses, it wasn't going to dance. Frankly, Mormon in Power evokes a lot more trouble in my mind than Wannabe in Power.

Honestly, I wouldn't have voted this year if there hadn't been a $50,000,000 bond issue (passed) and a Sheriff who ran (and lost) on a no-cameras/no-drones platform. Considering how sense has been almost entirely rinsed from the system even down to the local level (although I haven't given up the ship yet - I can still hassle the city council about owning a golf course, I suppose), its going to take a lot for me to vote in future elections.

I've skipped a Presidential ballot once or twice before (Bush-Gore and I think Dole-Clinton) simply because there was nothing on the undercard to speak of. My guess is as these local issues become more like foregone conclusions, the more likely I am to skip it altogether. Give me a non-union town of about 12,000 or less, and it might still work.

Blogger James Dixon November 07, 2012 5:01 PM  

> The separation already exists.

Well, if we go with voting patterns, it may lose a different part of Virginia this time and get the original part back.

Anonymous Brendan November 07, 2012 5:09 PM  

Demographics, including single mothers, and decline of educational standards, coupled with race-based tribalism has changed the very concept of "election". A Balkanized, race-based spoils system lies in the not too distant future; some would say it is here, now.

It's quite obviously already here. The fact that the demographics are just at the tip point, in political terms, now can perhaps mask how this new reality is already here, and not a future reality. The reason is that the actual percentage of whites overall is not relevant as long as whites do not vote as a bloc, and as we see, they do not do so -- single mothers, single women in general, union whites and so on, all vote with the spoils politics system, which means that the "effective" white vote is already outnumbered (i.e., whites voting not necessarily as whites but in a way that is distinctive from how non-whites are generally voting). This is already the new reality. No need to wait until actual demographic minority status -- that status is already here, for whites, politically.

Blogger JD Curtis November 07, 2012 5:18 PM  

'In a nation of children, Santa Claus wins'

Rush Limbaugh, 11/7/12

Anonymous JartStar November 07, 2012 5:18 PM  

Nobody has mentioned it yet but Maine and Maryland became the first states to approve same-sex marriage by popular vote. Can Obama push the issue nationally during the next four years with success? If he chooses to I think so as polls show that in general Americans favor homogamy.

Another sign that the country has moved left for the foreseeable future.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis November 07, 2012 5:23 PM  

"Mitt Romney had a really good shot at winning. I mean it should have been 55-45 if Romney had not thought the whole thing was in the bag. Instead he alienated a large group of voters, namely the Ron Paul supporters, he played it safe, and he let Democrats play their same social issues cards."

Romney never had the Ron Paul supporters, or most of them any ways. I was a delegate, and while there were some individuals that supported Ron Paul who said they would also support any republican. The majority were very vocal in saying that they would not support anyone but Ron Paul. And I don't blame them since the established party officials did everything they could to prevent them from participating.

Anonymous daddynichol November 07, 2012 5:34 PM  

"The banning of guns

Ain't gonna happen. Support for gun control is at an all-time historical low. They'd be utter fools to even try. Which of course doesn't mean they won't, but any attempt will be a non-starter. "


Don't bet your security on it. He will be permitted to use the Constitution as toilet paper. Executive Order seems to work for The One quite nicely. He can ignore Congress anytime and they will simply let him do it as they have before. After all, no one in Congress wants to be branded a racist!

However, most likely will be the high taxing of ammo (like cigarettes and tobacco; higher than hell, ban magazine capacity, caliber restrictions, approval of bolt action rifles only, push for UN small arms restrictions to be approved. He and his minions have all sorts of goodies at their disposal. Oh, don't forget, they will push it as a public safety issue and "for the good of the children".

His big card will be to appoint socially liberal SCOTUS justices. Once that is in place, the final remnants of the once great Constitution can be used to start the celebratory BBQ.

Anonymous Jake November 07, 2012 5:42 PM  

"For so many here claiming to be libertarians and/or Romney is just as bad or worse, it's odd that so many are upset. If Romney would have been as bad or worse, then your life hasn't changed one bit now that big O is back in the saddle."

Agreed.

Everyone seems to talk a lot about giving up on the republican party, but these comments suggest otherwise. Forget them folks, Romney would probably be at least as bad as Obama if not worse. It's a bi-factional ruling party remember? The same people pulling Obama's strings would have been animating Romney too. (Romney would probably make a better puppet, but that's not a good thing for most of us) At least this way your conservative-leaning friends, family, coworkers, church members, etc will be receptive to talks about REAL solutions rather than reflexively running to the defense of "their" president. We should be exploiting the opportunities created by the Obama presidency rather than griping about how Romney would have better preserved this death-spiral status quo.

Anonymous Daniel November 07, 2012 5:48 PM  

The fix was in from day one: at the Iowa caucuses, the party chairs were all mysteriously "elected" before it was revealed that nearly every one of them...was also the spokesperson for Romney.

It was eerie to watch. '12 That was the best engineered Primary system I've seen for a non-incumbent in a long, long time. Problem was, you could see the arrogance even then: dissenters were personae non grata. The iced out way too many people at the outset en route to victory. The sham at the conventions was the last bullet to the head of the mirage of "party" unity.

Obama supressed turnout on his side, opening the door. Romney, in his blitz to appear like a unified base, suppressed his side just a touch more.

Anonymous Cinco November 07, 2012 5:51 PM  

Here come the gun control people...

Let me see if I get this right? They didn't need to take our guns away from us to levy us with federal taxation. They didn't need to take our guns from us to force prohibition. They didn't need to take our guns from us in order to implement social security. They didn't need to take them away in order to enforce conscription during wars.

They don't need to take our guns away from us, we aren't willing to use them; and, brother, that is the truth.

Anonymous Matt November 07, 2012 5:52 PM  

For so many here claiming to be libertarians and/or Romney is just as bad or worse, it's odd that so many are upset.

It's one thing to talk about the inevitable demographic/fiscal/debt collapse as something that's going to happen someday. It's another to watch it actually start in earnest. True, at best a Romney election would've been a sign that we might have a few more good(ish) years left before the whole post-WWII system comes down.

The ballroom of the Titanic was a beautiful, warm, well-lit place with delicious food and charming company. It was better to get out quick when the ship hit the iceberg, but that doesn't mean the lifeboats weren't cold, scary places.

Anonymous Porky? November 07, 2012 5:53 PM  

His big card will be to appoint socially liberal SCOTUS justices.

He could replace Justice Ginsberg with the thawed out brain of Leon Trotsky and no one would notice.

Anonymous Cinco November 07, 2012 5:56 PM  

I will say this though. All throughout the net/blogosphere/talk radio, everyone is singing the same tune; that is, the harsh realization that demographically speaking, the GOP is doomed. This will be a great time for the libertarians to continue sneaking in and cannibalize what is left of the GOP, and to form a foundation for secessionist movements in states that aren't populated with large amounts of immigrants.

Anonymous 11B November 07, 2012 6:00 PM  

For so many here claiming to be libertarians and/or Romney is just as bad or worse, it's odd that so many are upset. If Romney would have been as bad or worse, then your life hasn't changed one bit now that big O is back in the saddle.

Speaking for myself, I am not upset per se that Romney lost. I am upset because we've hit the mathematical point in time where even the best candidate running on our issues can longer hope to win. It's that realization that our side can no longer win a national election that is most depressing.

I knew the demographic time bomb was ticking. I've followed Pat Buchanan for years. But I was surprised to see it arrive now.

My only hope now is for the wheels to fall off so that we can move to the next phase. I really don't want to spend a lot of time in this moment in history where SWPLs get to gloat. The sooner the bottom falls out the better. And if the SWPLs end up getting their just desserts from their NAM allies, so much the better.

Anonymous zen0 November 07, 2012 6:15 PM  

Study the secessionist movement in Quebec. They got as far as having a provincial referendum on "sovereignty-association". They lost, but not by much. Probably computerized vote.

And they were not armed.

They had to form a provincial party that could win power plus have a sucessionist bloc in the Federal Government.

Anonymous Tad November 07, 2012 6:17 PM  

"He could replace Justice Ginsberg with the thawed out brain of Leon Trotsky and no one would notice."

I'd bet it all that Justice Ginsburg announces her retirement By March 1, 2013. But the new justice won't change court's complexion.

The question is whether Kennedy or Scalia die or retire in the next four years. I'm not counting on retirement. Though, Scalia can be very independent. I would not be totally surprised if he let Obama have his seat.

Let's hope that somehow Obama gets to replace Ginsburg, Scalia, Kennedy...and maybe even Thomas.

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 07, 2012 6:18 PM  

Wheeler observes:
But the problem, Jeb, is that the majority of immigration is from "Hispanic Countries", Mexicans, Columbians and Haitians that go immediately on the dole! What an idiot! Here is a guy, a Bushie, like his elder brother, committing suicide! He is an idiot like the rest of the repukes.

Wheeler, why would you ever assume that a member of the Bush famiglia has any sort of loyalty to America (traditionally defined). Genocidal traitors and psychopaths like him have no loyalty to anyone but themselves - and to the god of this world they serve so faithfully (knowingly or unknowingly). He knows exactly what he is saying. The remark is designed to get the chumps to accept their own displacement and genocide, which will be good for him and his kind since they have access to what amounts to unlimited funds which the proles and zeks must accept for payment. So, yes, he is of course going to advocate importing and amnesty for a group who has always voted at least 2/3 Democrat. The plan is for a single-party state a la South Africa. The expense of keeping up the pretense of an opposition party must be getting tiresome for the silver-spoon gang.

The amazing thing is the sheer depth of idiocracy among those who ought to have seem through this racket by now. They will lap this liquid crap up faster than a dog will eat its own vomit. Then they'll turn around and shout "conspiracy theory" to anyone who dares to mention what it is they just lapped up.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner November 07, 2012 6:29 PM  

@ Porky:

"His(Obama) big card will be to appoint socially liberal SCOTUS justices."

Romney, the RINO, might have even one upped Barry if you look at the history, for example in Roe v. Wade, it was the 'Conservatives' who passed it.

With Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court voted overwhemingly to support legalized abortion in the United States 7 to 2. Who was in the Majority and who was in the Minority?

Majority
Harry Blackmun-R
Warren E. Burger-R
William O. Douglas-D
William J. Brennan-R
Potter Stewart-R
Thurgood Marshal-D
Lewis Powell-R

Minority
Byron White-D
William Rehnquist-R

The Majority Justices must have all been liberals, yes? Perhaps appointed by Democratic presidents? Wrong. Blackmun, who penned the Supreme Court’s final Majority opinion, was appointed by Republican President Richard Nixon. Also appointed by Nixon were Burgher and Powell. So far, three of the seven Justices in the Majority were appointed by a Republican President. But do not forget that Brennan and Stewart were appointed by Republican President Dwight Eisenhower. This means that five of the seven Majority Justices were appointed by Republican presidents (Douglas and Marshall were appointed by Democratic Presidents Franklin D. Roosevelt and Lyndon B. Johnson, respectively). What’s more, take the two Democratic-appointed judges out of the Majority, and you are still left with all-Republican majority of the Court that legalizes abortion.

Only White (appointed by Democratic President John F. Kennedy) and Renquist (appointed by Nixon) opposed the Court’s decision to legalize abortion in the United States.

Blogger Justthisguy November 07, 2012 6:50 PM  

@VD at 11:51, above: Exactly right, you are. As someone who is entirely descended from English Protestants who were present here before the Revolution (with one exception, an Englishwoman who came over about 1850 or so) I am getting annoyed at finding My People, who conquered and founded this country, becoming an ethnic minority in our own land.

After what happened yesterday, I have decided that I will no longer play nice with Those Other People. We tried playing nice, and it did not work. I think Kipling had something to say about what happens when you exhaust the patience of The White Men.

Blogger GP November 07, 2012 7:10 PM  

Cutting and pasting from two of Vox’s mini-commentaries I come up with the following: 71% of Hispanics voted Democrat. More of the 50 million Hispanics now in the USA will become eligible to vote in 2016. Immigrants and the children of immigrants with no connection to, or regard for, little American traditions such as the U.S. Constitution and limited government will become legal voters.

They will have their way with this country. For those of us who care, what can we do about it? How can we recreate the conditions our foundering fathers created to make this country great? Can we stay here and do it when we’re fast becoming the minority or do we have to start over somewhere else?

The comments to commentary about the election by Hispanics are very hostile to whites. They want whites off the North American continent and are implying that they will do it with violence. So do we just lie down and take it? Has anyone given thought about whiteys options? I’d like to hear them.

maczmo

Anonymous Tad November 07, 2012 7:28 PM  

"After what happened yesterday, I have decided that I will no longer play nice with Those Other People. We tried playing nice, and it did not work. I think Kipling had something to say about what happens when you exhaust the patience of The White Men."

You'll no longer "play nice"? What exactly does that mean? You'll start commenting even more on blogs? Watch out everyone. Here comes Justthisguy, keyboard a blazing!!

Anonymous Tad November 07, 2012 7:31 PM  

@lysander "Romney, the RINO, might have even one upped Barry if you look at the history, for example in Roe v. Wade, it was the 'Conservatives' who passed it."

Souter was the last Republican nominated justice to turn Left, and it won't happen again soon. If you study court politics you'll find hat all appointments since him have all voted on cases the way they are supposed to and it will continue to be that way. Everyone has learned their lesson.

Blogger Justthisguy November 07, 2012 7:46 PM  

Um, Tad, I think that was pretty rude of you. No longer playing nice, in my case, might mean actually less blog-commenting, and more action IRL I'll do the best I can, considering that I'm an old geezer into his seventh decade on the planet.

Anonymous Tad November 07, 2012 7:57 PM  

@JustthisGuy

Well, Old Geezer, just what exactly will you be doing??? ...More Geezing?

Anonymous Tom O. November 07, 2012 7:58 PM  

old geezer into his seventh decade on the planet.

As a progressive, Tad will fully support to euthanize you out of love. Because he is so filled with kindness and mercy, he will even ignore your protests to the contrary due to your memetic infection of silly Christianity.

But don't you dare touch a Chimpanzee!

Blogger Justthisguy November 07, 2012 8:17 PM  

No problem, Tom O. I am still capable of operating my revolver, thankyouverrymuch, which is within arm's reach. As my Dear Dead Kitteh would have said, had he been able to talk: "Don't you dare try to "help" me; I might just have one bite left in me!"

Blogger Justthisguy November 07, 2012 8:41 PM  

P.s. I betcha that Tad person confused "seventh decade" with "in one's seventies." I am in my seventh decade, and just barely into my sixties.

I confess, I am still feeling a bit butthurt over what happened yesterday. Everybody I voted for lost.

When I say "butthurt", I imagine the pirates having boarded our ship, pulled our pants down, sodomized us over a barrel without benefit of lubrication, and we are now waiting for them to throw us over the side, where the sharks are waiting.

Anonymous Anonymous November 07, 2012 9:17 PM  

"And that's where we part ways."

The difference is that Vox is really bright and has history on his side.

You're just a preening liberal.

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 07, 2012 9:42 PM  

For so many here claiming to be libertarians and/or Romney is just as bad or worse, it's odd that so many are upset. If Romney would have been as bad or worse, then your life hasn't changed one bit now that big O is back in the saddle.

This is actually a pretty good point. If you really want to enjoy some epic schadenfreude, you should go hang out at a Repuke place like Lucianne.com or FreeRepubelick. Much weeping and gnashing there. There's at least 50% scornful cruel laughter here. Weepin' Johnny has already caved on the debt, BTW. Magic Knee-Grow has a "mandate" now, you see. I hope Ann Barnhardt is right and he takes the oath of office on the Koran. That would be outstanding. Burn baby, burn! Yeeeeeeee-haaaawwwwww!

Anonymous Anonymous November 07, 2012 9:49 PM  

Gen. Kong, I seriously doubt that the oath of office will be taken on a Koran. The first rule of boiling frogs is not to turn the heat up too high too fast...




Borderline Anonymous

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Anonymous Tad November 07, 2012 10:08 PM  

@Tom O
due to your memetic infection of silly Christianity

Well, it is silly...

Blogger Desert Cat November 07, 2012 10:27 PM  

Josh November 07, 2012 9:43 AM
Also, pissing off the Ron Paul folks probably depressed Romney's total vote.


yup


RINO November 07, 2012 12:46 PM

Romney was my last hope. I'm done with this crap. I'm going to throw in with you guys, who has firearm recommendations?


Welcome home!

How many Ilk are there? You will get that many opinions plus one to that question. And then Nate will weigh in.

Remington 870, 18" barrel for home defense. 1911 variant for pistol carry. AK variant for MBR. The Norinco MAK is a solid choice.

Blogger Justthisguy November 07, 2012 10:46 PM  

Yup, everybody seems to agree, that if you can only afford to own one gun, it should be a shotgun. Shotguns are general-purpose guns. You can shoot quail, and grouse, and rabbits, and bad humans with them. The Germans complained to the World Court during the Great War, that Americans were using shotguns as trench brooms. A Winchester 97 will put more lead into the air than a Thompson, and more quickly.

Anonymous fish November 07, 2012 10:51 PM  

Maybe you could start in south america

Anonymous fish November 07, 2012 10:56 PM  

So you would obey an order from a post-American government/supreme court?

Sucker! The nice thing about being a third world country is that anything goes!

Anonymous AdognamedOp November 08, 2012 12:44 AM  

Kong':
"If you really want to enjoy some epic schadenfreude, you should go hang out at a Repuke place like Lucianne.com "

Luciannes a fat pig. Her goons banned me from posting on that site years ago for criticizing Jorge Bush on immigration.
Her election night thread was hilarious. I almost felt bad for the poor bastards. They sounded like they could've used some of Diane Sawyers happy pills.

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 08, 2012 3:06 AM  

Anon:
Gen. Kong, I seriously doubt that the oath of office will be taken on a Koran. The first rule of boiling frogs is not to turn the heat up too high too fast...

I don't think he would be so bold myself, but it would be highly, highly amusing - sort of a nice Orwellian 'boot-in-your-face' touch. I also seriously doubt Magic Knee-Grow is a 'seecrit Moose-limb' insofar that real Moose-limbs might be aware of his downlow proclivities and do what Mohammed commands to stinking kaffirs who use their holy book in such a vile way, or at least explode in the attempt. Perhaps the Mocha Messiah could chose Alistair Cowley's little book instead, or Chairman Mao's (one would dear to whatever passes for his heart). I've actually been enjoying the great Repuke Gotterdämmerung quite a bit. Mark Twain was right. Wagner's music really is much better than it sounds. I see the UN arms treaty miraculously was resurrected, just in time for Harry Ried's filibuster-proof senate.

Anonymous Leonidas November 08, 2012 8:40 AM  

There is actually one small silver lining that comes out of this election. Since Romney lost, there will be no incumbent Republican in 2016. That means an open field for Republican candidates. We also know that Rand Paul inherited his father's operation this year, and that he's been a bit more palatable to the mainstream than his father. You can pretty much count on him running in 2016 now - and with an operation that, thanks to his father's work, is actually becoming fairly effective. Ron never had much more than a snowball's chance in hell of winning the 2012 nomination. But with the operation he's left, Rand actually does have a chance (if still only a small one) in 2016.

I do not believe for a second that either one of these men is perfect or that they will be our wonderful and amazing salvation. But I do believe that they actually understand at least SOME of the worst problems we're facing right now. After four more years of Obama and Bernanke, maybe - just maybe - they'll be able to get their point across next time.

I called this a "small silver lining" however, because even at that, one of the Paul's getting elected President is still a longshot. But if Romney had been elected, the odds of Rand Paul in 2016 would've been precisely zero.

Anonymous Anonymous November 08, 2012 1:16 PM  

Leonidas, if the US gov. debt service is close to failure in 2016, Rand Paul might be the man of the hour. He'll have to deal with the Bush machine, in the form of Jeb, though. Expect to see ol' Jeb in the press hablaring away quite a bit over the next 4 years. Si su pueda, puto...

Borderline Anonymous

Anonymous Anonymous November 08, 2012 3:49 PM  

Something else to consider: the Case of the Missing White Voters.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/11/08/the_case_of_the_missing_white_voters_116106-2.html

Perhaps Mittens wasn't as attractive to GOP voters as he was to GOP leaders? Garsh...

Borderline Anonymous

Blogger Christina November 08, 2012 3:55 PM  

Something else to consider: the Case of the Missing White Voters.

Dito what he said. Was actually coming over here to say that exact thing. 3 Million missing republicans between 2008 and 2012. And they didn't go to Obama, because he had 10M fewer votes than in 2008.

Also, it would appear that amnesty is not the answer. It would seem all this talk in the GOP on how to attract the other side would be better focused on energizing the conservative base. But alas, many conservatives have been pointing that out for 4+ years to no avail.

Blogger Red Bane November 08, 2012 8:49 PM  

"...What made the difference was the increasingly powerful, increasingly Democrat-leaning Hispanic vote. First, look at what happened in 2008:.."

Not according to various pundits.Rather it was the fact that a large and possibly persuasive number of the republican base couldn't bring themselves to vote for Obama-lite, AKa, Willard Romney. (If I bought into the false left vs right paradigm of US politics I would have been one of the apathetic). If one is of a conservative persuasion,voting has been a major let-down these last 40/50 years.Time to find a new avenue for change me thinks.How many battles need to be lost before the penny drops?

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