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Tuesday, December 04, 2012

Another conservative purge

How many times can Republicans purge those to their right from their ranks and still be meaningfully considered to represent the American political right?
Boehner, Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) and Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) have worked assiduously to keep conservative groups on the outside in line as they try to strike a massive deal to keep taxes low on all Americans and avoid spending cuts to the Pentagon and other domestic programs. The traditional right — The Wall Street Journal editorial page, National Review, Fox News and business-friendly analysts on CNBC — have been lockstep in line with Boehner, the result of careful outreach by leadership staff. But now, top House leaders suddenly find themselves under fire from entities with enormous sway in GOP politics.
The fact that the WSJ, NR, and Fox are pro-business doesn't mean they are traditional right.  Not anymore.  Mussolini and Hitler were pro-business too.  The irony is that the right was told that they had to dutifully line up behind Mitt Romney because he was, as a moderate, more electable than the anti-bank, anti-war, Ron Paul.  Then, when Romney went down in flames just like McCain, Bush, Dole, Ford and every other elite-selected moderate before, what passes for Republican "leadership" in the House is trying to keep moving left.

If you are a conservative who is still a Republican, I have a very simple question to ask you: why?  It is becoming increasingly obvious that both conservatives and America would have been better off if the John Birch Society purged William F. Buckley rather than the other way around.

Labels:

141 Comments:

Anonymous Rally December 04, 2012 12:33 PM  

That's any easy one. I remain a republican for the sole reason of being able to vote Ron Paul in the primary. I offer no other support to this party.

Anonymous Question December 04, 2012 12:33 PM  

So what's the path to victory for fiscal conservatives?

If they don't cooperate with the GOP (and why would they, since the GOP is determined to shut them out) then the Democrats get what they want -- possibly with supermajorities in Congress after 2014.

If they do cooperate with the GOP, then the Democrats get what they want, since Bonehead intends to give the Democrats what they want.

All the political right can really do is act as a spoiler to ensure the GOP gets crushed. Which, to be sure, the GOP thoroughly deserves, if for no other reason than it is not giving the right any reason not to play spoiler.

Anonymous SadTruth December 04, 2012 12:39 PM  

"The irony is that the right was told that they had to dutifully line up behind Mitt Romney because he was, as a moderate, more electable than the anti-bank, anti-war, Ron Paul. "

The irony is Obama is as pro-bank, pro-war as Bush...yet wins by a landslide.

The irony is BOTH social conservatives and fiscal conservatives got killed in the Congressional elections.

Anonymous Porky? December 04, 2012 12:39 PM  

Bush was just on TV pleading for more immigrants to come help fix our economy.

He looked slightly drunk.

Anonymous hygate December 04, 2012 12:45 PM  

I stay in the Republican party because without me it would be even more "moderate." However, if they actually nominate Jeb Bush in 2016, I will actively work for the election of whoever the Democrat nominee is, even Hilary, hell especially if it is Hilary!

Blogger JartStar December 04, 2012 12:48 PM  

The irony is Obama is as pro-bank, pro-war as Bush...yet wins by a landslide.

Ralph Nadar thinks he's worse which is rather amusing: On military and foreign policy, he's worse [than George W. Bush]. He's worse in a sense that he's more aggressive, more illegal worldwide. He [Obama] has basically stated . . . that he has the authority to kill an American citizen anywhere in the world if he suspects them of trouble."

Anonymous Anonymous December 04, 2012 12:49 PM  


The demand Geithner made to Boehner was nothing less than total capitulation. It seems likely that Obama plans to let the "cliff jump" happen, then come back with a tax cut for those with income below $250K and perhaps some relief on dividend. Then he can portray himself as the author of a middle class tax cut and the savior of retired investors.

Meanwhile, Dodd-Frank makes all banks too big to fail, thereby ensuring that Wall Street will continue to back him, as will all the employees out in Westchester county, etc.

The first rule for radicals by Alinsky is this: "Power is not what you have, it is what your opponents think you have". Right now, the GOP thinks Obama has unlimited power, so effectively he does.

Borderline Anonymous

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 12:52 PM  

Buckley was right to condemn the Birchers. It saved the GOP from irrelevancy.

The problem the GOP has today is the modern day equivalent of the Birchers: The Tea Party. This retrograde movement is the death of the GOP. Anti-women, anti-gay, anti-minority, anti-compromise. They and their cohorts lost the election for the GOP.

Blogger Giraffe December 04, 2012 12:56 PM  

@Question
So what's the path to victory for fiscal conservatives?

There isn't one. Partly because most "conservative" voters don't realize both parties are on the same road. Or if they do realize it, they can't do anything about it.

Blogger vandelay December 04, 2012 12:59 PM  

There are a few NR writers still worth reading: Williamson, Steyn and Ponnuru (sometimes), De Rugy, and, very occasionally, Goldberg.
Beyond that it's a wasteland.
Hell, Andrew Sullivan was a stronger Ron Paul supporter than anyone at NR after the Derbyshire purge.

Anonymous Wendy December 04, 2012 1:00 PM  

And Justin Amash has been booted from the Budget Committee for "not being a team player".

Anonymous Enoch Powell December 04, 2012 1:02 PM  

The GOP, along with other Leftist cowards and traitors, seems to be determined to somehow find a lively, vibrant diverse who can fix us. This is literally insane. Whites will never be on the road to reclaiming their culture and country until we can openly line up behind a White man. I used to read and comment on a Tea Party blog. As decent and admirable as those people are, even they are fixated on finding a nonWhite who can lead us back from the Leftist abyss. They are desperate to find and support a "conservative" nonWhite or embrace a group of nonWhites as "natural conservatives" in order to prove that they are not racists. Whites will know when they are going in the proper direction when they feel free to openly laugh at charges of racism. They won't bother to argue the point. They just simply won't care or they will take the accusation as something to be proud of. By the Left's definition I am an extreme racist. All that means to me is that I am in touch with reality and I know for a fact that nonWhites hate me, and are the enemies of civilization.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner December 04, 2012 1:02 PM  

"America would have been better off if the John Birch Society purged William F. Buckley rather than the other way around."

I wrote that CIA bitch a few years before he croaked, and asked that very question, POS, never replied.

Turning The entire CIA over to Vlad The Impaler, for a couple of rounds would be too kind to those beotches.

Anonymous Stilicho December 04, 2012 1:04 PM  

Ponnuru always strikes me as a social justice Catholic: he's anti-abortion and pro-socialism...he thinks that Christian charity is an obligation of the state.

Anonymous Anonymous December 04, 2012 1:08 PM  

"Buckley was right to condemn the Birchers. It saved the GOP from irrelevancy."

It also ruined the country, turning the Republican Party to something the most wretched and anti-conservative monster imaginable and leaving the country into insolvency. Please keep your idiotic opinions to yourself from now on otherwise you'll keep exposing yourself as a fool.

Anonymous kh123 December 04, 2012 1:08 PM  

Why - the power of propaganda. That and an inability to think outside the financial paradigm, Linus-blanket faith that it will last indefinitely, since there's a significant portion of that demographic that're either pulling in their retirement benefits or have another decade or two before they can do so. Try discussing with any of them that a 401K is essentially the same as the social security lockbox, just as prone to being confiscated or never being paid out, depending on what tumultuous financial hiccups inevitably await.

But the possibility of a Wiemar Republic - financially or politically - never crosses the mind. The latest RNC fiasco is an excellent example of exposing the die-hard doublethinkers from the ones who essentially voted no-confidence by not partaking in the Reichstag's devouring of itself. Which is good, actually; it's showing that a portion of America is not as ideologically instep with the Etat wet dream as is the Left.

Anonymous Daniel December 04, 2012 1:09 PM  

So what's the path to victory for fiscal conservatives?

Dropping out or rebellion. If you are asking how one might work within Big Brother's two-faced unified party to affect conservative success, well, imagine a boot...

Blogger JartStar December 04, 2012 1:11 PM  

Tad, what do you envision as a good GOP counterpart to the Democrats? If you got your with and all of the social (pro-life, Evangelicals, etc.) and fiscal conservatives are pushed out of the party what's left that is useful the Democrats can't do "better"?

Anonymous Stilicho December 04, 2012 1:12 PM  

f you are a conservative who is still a Republican, I have a very simple question to ask you: why?

Pure inertia at this point. The party left me long ago and I simply have not bothered to change my registration due to having no compelling reason to register as a member of any other party.

Anonymous Stilicho December 04, 2012 1:13 PM  

So what's the path to victory for fiscal conservatives?

Dropping out or rebellion. If you are asking how one might work within Big Brother's two-faced unified party to affect conservative success, well, imagine a boot...

Well said.

Anonymous woody December 04, 2012 1:15 PM  

ProLife pro natural law and readin pro protestant ethic and pro values. The death of the GOP comes from abandoning its base.

Blogger Unknown December 04, 2012 1:15 PM  

I'm a registered Republican because that means I can vote for a conservative in the primaries.

If more people spoke up about what a crock full of sh*t the political advisors are, more people would stop voting for the moderate "who can win independent votes."

Conservatives across this country have been brainwashed to believe that the only way to win is to get independent votes - which no one has enough balls to prove wrong.

Blogger Unknown December 04, 2012 1:18 PM  

Actually - gonna add something to the above.

I wonder if Rush Limbaugh were to actually encourage people to vote 3rd party the next time the GOP puts up a moderate dem-lite candidate, maybe the GOP would start changing its tune. I don't think any of the GOP Elites like him at all and the only reason they put up with him is that he keeps telling his listners to vote the repub ticket.

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 04, 2012 1:20 PM  

Weepin' Johnny and his bathhouse buddy wanted to make sure there would be nobody who might possibly interfere with the bust-out plan. When the lenders won't lend any more, you light a match!

One should never misunderestimate the abilities of the Repuke idiocracy to tout this as a great unifying move for "conservatism", though. Hannity & Co. will no doubt be spinning it as 'needed strateegery to take the whore house in 2016'. Stoopid party doesn't even begin to describe it.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 1:21 PM  

@enoch

The GOP, along with other Leftist cowards and traitors, seems to be determined to somehow find a lively, vibrant diverse who can fix us. This is literally insane. Whites will never be on the road to reclaiming their culture and country until we can openly line up behind a White man.

When was the last time the GOP DIDN"T line up behind a white man as their national standard bearer???? The answer is never.

Furthermore, any group with the political agenda of putting whites on the power to reclaiming their culture and country will forever be on the fringe. I can't believe this idea is associated with American politics. It's an insane reading of the realities in America.

Blogger IM2L844 December 04, 2012 1:23 PM  

If you are a conservative who is still a Republican, I have a very simple question to ask you: why?

However unlikely, the only real hope is that the Republican party can eventually be reformed from the inside starting at the local levels. Successful inroads to a conclusive usurpation have only just begun to be built, but being built they are. It may be a long slog, but starting from scratch really isn't a viable option.

I think it is amusing that liberals are so enthusiastically confident that Obama's win over Romney is somehow profoundly meaningful as if they have finally crossed a magical threshold that clearly demarcates a point of no return. The talking heads simply can't stop gloating even though it really wasn't all that impressive. Buckle up. The next four years are going to be a bumpy ride.

Anonymous Stilicho December 04, 2012 1:23 PM  

After a similar purge worked so well for Romney earlier this year, one cannot be surprised that an astute political in-fighter like Boehner would adopt the tactic.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 1:25 PM  

@anonymous

"Buckley was right to condemn the Birchers. It saved the GOP from irrelevancy."

It also ruined the country, turning the Republican Party to something the most wretched and anti-conservative monster imaginable and leaving the country into insolvency. Please keep your idiotic opinions to yourself from now on otherwise you'll keep exposing yourself as a fool.


Do you really believe there was ever any chance of a Birch Society-dominated GOP being a factor in national politics?? You would have lost in '72 in '80 and ever after had such a philosophy led the party.

And today, there is no question that Romney lost because he put himself in an ideological corner during the primaries by courting the Tea Party. There's no "Etcha Scetch" in American politics. Romney had no chance of winning enough of the middle after his attempt to be as Tea Party as possible.

You are delusional.

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 04, 2012 1:30 PM  

Anon. (in response the Totalitarian Tad):
It also ruined the country, turning the Republican Party to something the most wretched and anti-conservative monster imaginable and leaving the country into insolvency. Please keep your idiotic opinions to yourself from now on otherwise you'll keep exposing yourself as a fool.

Marxists are always there to offer moralistic 'advice', anon. The Ministry of Truth and Housenigga Hussein likewise 'advised' the Repuke establishment to put up Mittens as the guy they wanted to run against. The Repuke establishment and the chamber of commerce types (rope salesmen) who obsequiously follow them of course complied. Now the 'advice' is to keep on doing the Hegelian mambo (first you dance to the left, then turn to the left).

Anonymous The Anti-Gnostic December 04, 2012 1:31 PM  

This retrograde movement is the death of the GOP.

No it isn't. The death of the GOP is pure math:

1. The GOP--in any iteration, conservative or moderate--splits the white vote between urban/rural, single/married and elite/prole.
2. The libertarians, paleo's and apolitical don't bother to show up.
3. Everybody else votes for the Gibmedat Party.

The GOP could fling open the borders, Harry Reid and John Boehner could get married in Vermont and mount each other on the courthouse steps, enact Obama's budget before the ink dries, toss out EBT cards from the door of a Chinook.

Doesn't matter. Demography is destiny.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 1:33 PM  

@jarstar

Tad, what do you envision as a good GOP counterpart to the Democrats? If you got your with and all of the social (pro-life, Evangelicals, etc.) and fiscal conservatives are pushed out of the party what's left that is useful the Democrats can't do "better"?

There is a huge opportunity for a party that espouses center/right fiscal policies and moderate social policy. That's the center of the plate for the GOP.

Shit, the GOP won the ideological argument on deficits and the budget. The only question is the responsible and politically viable way to move the country toward reduced debt and growth. But when you have 10 GOP Candidates saying they would not accept $1 in tax increases in exchange for $10 in spending cuts, you sound like a loon to the vast majority of people.

On Social issues, the GOP should remain anti-abortion, but these personhood amendments are so far out of fringe that they scare even people like me who would support abortion restrictions. Furthermore, the GOP looks absurdly dumb by opposing amnisty for illegal aliens. Plus, they demonstrate no understanding of the political reality by opposing amnesty. If the GOP supported Amnesty, they could negotiate huge swaths of their general immigration agenda.

Finally, the GOP would pick up HUGE numbers of those in the middle if they had run to the right of Obama on Foreign policy, particularly with regard to the wars in the middle east.

Instead, you have a GOP the doesn't understand that politics isn't about ideology. Politics is about compromise: 1 step back, 2 steps forward.

Anonymous bw December 04, 2012 1:47 PM  

every other elite-selected vd
+2 Exactly. But don't fail to mention the "winners" are likewise

trying to keep moving left vd
-1 No such thing. A False Dialectic. It is a pyramid of Power.

if Rush Limbaugh were to actually encourage people
Absurd. He is doing exactly what he is paid by Clear Channel propaganda outlet and its sponsors to do - as are Hannity, Coulter, O'reilly, etc. Propaganda mouthpieces all, NEVER calling attention to the reasons America is dead. The nails were put in the coffin on their watch and with their Republicans. Imagine that.
And Bonesman Buckley paved the way.

Anonymous George of the Hole December 04, 2012 1:48 PM  

Glenn Beck has the right idea.

Blogger James Dixon December 04, 2012 1:52 PM  

> So what's the path to victory for fiscal conservatives?

There is none. There hasn't been one for over 50 years.

The only path forward for a fiscal conservative at all is to refuse to continue making things worse. And the only way to do that is to refuse to fund it. Pick the departments you want to keep open and pass funding bills for them. Shut the rest down until the budget is balanced and you're running a 10% surplus. Put that toward paying off the debt. But that's not a path to victory.

> When was the last time the GOP DIDN"T line up behind a white man as their national standard bearer????

The GOP, or the GOP base? The correct answer is 2008, when the GOP base lined up behind Sarah Palin, a white woman. They voted for her, not McCain.

> However unlikely, the only real hope is that the Republican party can eventually be reformed from the inside starting at the local levels.

There is no hope of that, as demonstrated by Romney at the convention. When the local levels become a threat to the national party agenda, they'll be purged, exactly as is happening in congress now.

Blogger JartStar December 04, 2012 1:54 PM  

Tad, thanks for the answer.

There is a huge opportunity for a party that espouses center/right fiscal policies and moderate social policy. That's the center of the plate for the GOP.

So right now you'd say that the Democrats are too far left on fiscal and possibly social issues if there's a need for a centrist party? Can you give just a couple of examples both fiscally ans socially?

I ask, not to pick a fight, but it has been my experience after the election that Democrats are requesting the GOP move towards the middle, but in reality it means agreeing with the Democrats on nearly every issue of substance.

Blogger Giraffe December 04, 2012 1:55 PM  

Collapse is inevitable. After the collapse is where the next opportunity is. If conservatives can get the people to realize why.

Maybe that is already planned for too.

Anonymous Stilicho December 04, 2012 1:56 PM  

Glenn Beck has the right idea.

George, you still have questions to answer in the weekly column thread.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 2:10 PM  

@jarstar
So right now you'd say that the Democrats are too far left on fiscal and possibly social issues if there's a need for a centrist party? Can you give just a couple of examples both fiscally ans socially?

I ask, not to pick a fight, but it has been my experience after the election that Democrats are requesting the GOP move towards the middle, but in reality it means agreeing with the Democrats on nearly every issue of substance.


The DEM is too far left fiscally for me. Plus, I see a majority of democratic voters who don't require the Dems be as left fiscally as they are. I think on social issues the Dems are mainly in the sweet spot politically. Fiscally, the Dems would survive just fine by keeping their demand for increased taxes on the wealthy. However, I think if they put forward serious proposals to slow the growth of entitlement programs they'd offer a more compelling message to more moderates, without losing their base. Socially, I'd like to see the DEM party not always tow the NOW line on abortion. I think there is room for Dems to support abortion up to a point, while restricting it later in pregnancy and still hold their base.

Right now the Obama administration is taking its election victory out for a walk. You never really know how much political capital you gain with a victory. You don't want to lose or not use what you've gained, but you don't want to waste it by making absurd demands. Right now, in the fiscal negotiations, the administration is trying to figure out how far it can go. I don't think they are demanding that the GOP agree with them on everything.

Anonymous cheddarman December 04, 2012 2:10 PM  

My name is Tad, spelled T-a-r-d. The "r" is silent.

sincerely

Cheddarman

Blogger JartStar December 04, 2012 2:12 PM  

If there are any post-grad history/anthropology/social students out there I have an idea a paper: The causal effects of societal collapse on future governments. I don’t know if anyone has done this research as I haven’t seen it, but it would very interesting to research major societal collapses (the definition here could be tricky), the length of time until a government is reestablished, and then the form of government which proceeds from the collapse.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 2:18 PM  

@jarstar

Interesting question. I suspect the answer is the same with military readiness: the military is always fighting the last war. I suspect governments would be organized to prevent the last disaster.

Anonymous DonReynolds December 04, 2012 2:21 PM  

We need to stop using the phrase "fiscal cliff" and especially stop pretending that there is a choice between going over the fiscal cliff or not. That is all nonsense.

In reality, the choice is between one "fiscal cliff" and a slightly shorter "fiscal cliff"....they are both cliffs...both involve increases in income taxation and both involve cuts in defense spending. (Defense spending is the only sacred cow of the Neocon Republicans.)

As we slide into the dentist's chair, we have no idea just how many teeth will be yanked. We do know there will be several. My hope is that someone in Congress will bother to read the Constitution of the United States to find out that CONGRESS determines spending and taxing in this country....not the President.....and act accordingly. And when the clown in the Oval Office starts braying again about his "mandate", someone should remind him that the Republican majority in the House was ALSO a "mandate" of the voters.

Blogger Doom December 04, 2012 2:23 PM  

Yeah, you are half right. I see the corruption of the GOP, but raise you the insanity of some of the absolutist libertarians. Between the two, they will/have definitively kill(ed) conservativism. At least I can sympathize, more, with libertarians. There is a chance, in a generation or two if the possibility remains open, of having some impact over time, if that is slim.

Best bet, in the way things are going, is to remember who is the Once and Future King of all, and not deliver too much of my potency on the foolishness of men who would be kings or kingmakers. Still, I can't bury my talent either, so... Better to at least attempt to earn some interest on the damned thing.

Anonymous Boris December 04, 2012 2:34 PM  

If only the Republican Party were more racist all its problems would be solved...

Anonymous George of the Hole December 04, 2012 2:51 PM  

If only the Republican Party would exhibit an ounce of genuine Christian character many, not all, of it's problems would be solved.

Anonymous Anonymous December 04, 2012 2:51 PM  

Rally says, "That's any easy one. I remain a republican for the sole reason of being able to vote Ron Paul in the primary. I offer no other support to this party."

Absolutely, Tennessee, where I live, has similar rules! I, along with you, am a true RINO, since being a Republican has nothing whatever to do with being a conservative in any true sense of the word!

Oh yeah, I'll say it again: "Death to the GOP!"

Regards,
David Smith
Tennessee

Anonymous Daniel December 04, 2012 2:52 PM  

If only the Republican Party would exhibit an ounce of genuine Christian character many, not all, of it's problems would be solved.

Yeah, Abe Lincoln kind of drained that vial fairly early in the process.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard December 04, 2012 2:58 PM  

When was the last time the GOP DIDN"T line up behind a white man as their national standard bearer???? The answer is never.

And when the Democrats did not, he had to be half-white, raised by white people, educated in white universities, and mentored by white men.

Black but not too black, if you follow me.

Anonymous Anonymous December 04, 2012 3:05 PM  

"There is a huge opportunity for a party that espouses center/right fiscal policies and moderate social policy."

Yes, they are called the Democrats.

Right of socialists and communists on the economy, but still giving out free sh&t.

"Moderate" enough where you still can't marry your dog or cousin (unless your cousin is gay), but you can still stick it to the "squares" and Bible-thumpers.

That's all that matters in America for electoral politics, and it's worked since at least 1932. FDR figured it out. Sometimes the GOP figures it out and the Leftists go too far (Kerry, Carter, Gore, etc.).

But it is hard-coded into the Majority Party (The Party of Wilson and FDR).

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein December 04, 2012 3:18 PM  

It still shocks me that folks who think that the Federal government is too big are still willing to raise taxes. You know, " a $1 (actual) tax increase for $10 in (promised) spending cuts.

Why not a $1 (actual) tax reduction for $100 in ( actual) spending cuts?.

Giving more money to the already bloated federal government ain't compromise...it's capitulation.
.

Anonymous Noah B. December 04, 2012 3:24 PM  

Any Republicans who continue to support the current party leadership have no honor. Boehner and Cantor need to go.

Anonymous RINO December 04, 2012 3:29 PM  

Giving more money to the already bloated federal government ain't compromise...it's capitulation.

But it's not like they can do much about it as Obama has the better position. He wants higher taxes and he can get it by doing nothing. So you're deriding them for not stopping tax increases that they have no ability to stop anyways.

Blogger JartStar December 04, 2012 3:29 PM  

The DEM is too far left fiscally for me. Plus, I see a majority of democratic...

I'm not trying to be snarky, but essentially to be successful the GOP needs to be slightly more moderate Democrats, fiscally. As "slowing the growth of entitlements" is not even as conservative as cutting a few entitlements.

Frankly I don't see the point to the GOP then as what you are referring to is just adding a fiscally more moderate wing to the Democrat party which could potentially reign in the ultra-spenders.

Like I said... agreeing the Democrats on nearly all issues of substance. If I was a GOP party member, and it had the platform you proposed, I doubt I would bother voting because it would make very little difference if a slightly more fiscally moderate Republican was in office compared to a Democrat who liked to tax and spend a bit more.

Blogger Robert S. Oculus III December 04, 2012 3:38 PM  

Folks, don't waste your time posting to Tad. He hates white people. He is also bigoted against Christians. Nothing you can say will change this.

Why bother trying to teach a pig to sing?

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 3:47 PM  

@Jarstar

All politics in America has and is played in the middle, not on the outskirts. The GOP, for whatever reasons, is portrayed as more and more playing not near the middle, but on the outskirts. Americans are middle of the road politically. It's rate that they actually retreat to the far corners.

I think on of the problems we have, among the many, is that people act like if they don't stay true to their absolute principles on every issue and if they compromise on any aspect of their principled platform planks, they are are really just worthless. They hear too many people suggest this is the case.

If the GOP does not compromise on some things, they will find themselves without any power to drive any agenda. It's about practical politics, not political religions.

Anonymous Porky? December 04, 2012 3:47 PM  

I like Tad.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 3:49 PM  

@Jarstar

A perfect example of what I'm talking about with regard to issues and politics is the comment directly above my most recent from Robert S. Oculus. It's an absurd conclusion to draw. Yet, he's willing to extrapolate and come to this conclusion and say so. The same thing is playing out in our political culture as DEMS demonize the GOP for any and all of their comments and the same on the GOP side. It results in the kind of polarization that we see governing politics today.

Blogger Random December 04, 2012 3:49 PM  

I suspect Tad is actually just a sock puppet Vox uses to answer the age-old question, "how brazenly can I write this reply to troll everyone, without them noticing?"

Obvious Troll is Obvious: "Buckley was right to condemn the Birchers. It saved the GOP from irrelevancy."

Anonymous kh123 December 04, 2012 3:50 PM  

"However, I think if they put forward serious proposals to slow the growth of entitlement programs they'd offer a more compelling message to more moderates, without losing their base."

Slowing the growth would seem to indicate that, given a growing population, gov't would have to increasingly exclude folks from getting monies.

Politically, I don't see this as viable, considering we're talking about a party whose voting base has been built around those who want to benefit from unlimited gov't largesse (and which said base will likely ascend - or descend, depending on how you look at it - to Visigoth status once the spigot runs dry).

Self-destruction with one's supporters is the Land of Nod for which the GOP dwells; not so much the Dems.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 December 04, 2012 3:51 PM  

@Tad

There is no reason for the Republican party to compromise on anything. Remember how the Democrats acted when they were the minority party? They compromised on just about nothing and fought the Republican party with every bitter breath.

And yet, the Republican party seems hell-bent on going the way of the Whigs. It is absolutely foolish for conservatives to stick with the Republican party for any reason now.

Anonymous fnn December 04, 2012 3:52 PM  

Use you local home rule powers to change the local voting systems to proportional with a low threshold. It's the only system that Israel has used in its entire history-SO IT MUST BE GOOD. That should be enough to win referendums in many parts of the country.

Why do it? Because the vast majority of people will remain trusting sheeple until it's too late to organize- and running futile campaigns is demoralizing. When you use the "Israeli System" you get to elect organized decentralist/proto-secessionist "militias" that have whatever protection the First Amendment and the relevant election laws still provide for associations of citizens. Note that the Democratic Party machines already have militias (in some cases very real ones) in the forms of street gangs and public employee unions. The GOP is way too tame to reciprocate.

Anonymous George of the Hole December 04, 2012 3:58 PM  

If the GOP does not compromise on some things, they will find themselves without any power to drive any agenda.


Your problem, Tad, is that you've placed the emphasis upon political influence, political agendas and worldly power. When this is primarily what one cares about then compromise, false campaign promises, hypocrisy, graft, lies, and political double-talk are no longer things to be ashamed of, they are the tools of the trade.

Enjoy the paltry worldly power that you currently have been given. It tends to be fleeting and unfulfilling in the end.

Anonymous Porky? December 04, 2012 3:59 PM  

But then again, I like sludge.

-Chuck Barris

Anonymous zen0 December 04, 2012 4:00 PM  

I like Tad.
- Porky?

He does seem a little more polished today, but you know what they say:

"You can polish a Tad all you want, but in the end, it is still a Tad."

Anonymous Bunny Carlos December 04, 2012 4:01 PM  

"Furthermore, any group with the political agenda of putting whites on the power to reclaiming their culture and country will forever be on the fringe. I can't believe this idea is associated with American politics. It's an insane reading of the realities in America."

Hey Tad, do you still go to young republican meetings? I'll tell you what's an insane, and I'll add ignorant, naive and cowardly reading of the realities of America and that's to believe that the other races are EVER going to stop organizing around race. When they are 20%, 30%, 40%, 70%, it will not stop so yes, at some point baby Tad, white people are going to explicitly have a white party here in the good ole USA or they are going to cease to exist. Grow up or at least grow some balls. Defending yourself is not insane, its natural.

Anonymous zen0 December 04, 2012 4:08 PM  

I suspect Tad is actually just a sock puppet Vox uses to answer the age-old question, "how brazenly can I write this reply to troll everyone, without them noticing?"

I really doubt it. Vox is very creative, but has many other more interesting things to do. Besides, no matter how intelligent he may be, I just don't believe he can fake stupid.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 4:13 PM  

@swirtfox

And yet, the Republican party seems hell-bent on going the way of the Whigs. It is absolutely foolish for conservatives to stick with the Republican party for any reason now.

Extremism in pursuit of political victory is no strategy. Where can conservatives go on the national level where they would have any opportunity to push their agenda if not the GOP? The answer is nowhere.

You want purity from the GOP. No faction ever got their form of purity pushed. Ever. And you expect the GOP to march lockstep with the far right conservatives? If you are looking to push any part of your agenda that's a losing plan.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard December 04, 2012 4:13 PM  

Enjoy the paltry worldly power that you currently have been given. It tends to be fleeting and unfulfilling in the end.

This thread turned unsatisfactory rather quickly. My only recourse is to take my secretary out for drinks and hope that she imbibes enough to help me destroy Tokyo or perhaps Santa Fe.

Fulfillment comes in many forms. For me, it involves giant gila monsters.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 4:20 PM  

@Bunny

Hey Tad, do you still go to young republican meetings? I'll tell you what's an insane, and I'll add ignorant, naive and cowardly reading of the realities of America and that's to believe that the other races are EVER going to stop organizing around race. When they are 20%, 30%, 40%, 70%, it will not stop so yes, at some point baby Tad, white people are going to explicitly have a white party here in the good ole USA or they are going to cease to exist. Grow up or at least grow some balls. Defending yourself is not insane, its natural.

The largest minorities in America are hispanics at 16% and blacks at 13%. No individual ethnic group has anything like the power of white americans if you want to look at it from a racial perspective. You know what the GOP needs to win at the national level. A larger hispanic middle class. It's a truism that the more a person's wealth rises, the more likely they are to vote GOP. This should be a hint for the kind of action the GOP should take.

But as a Democrat, I encourage you to form a "White Party" and to do so by retreating from the GOP. That just means the DEMS will never be challenged again....assuming you can get more than a few hundreds folks to follow you.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 4:22 PM  

@George

You know what your problem and too many other's problem is, George? You link "Compromise" with "false campaign promises, hypocrisy, graft, lies, and political double-talk"

As long as anyone who is interested in politics does that, they'll have zero success in advancing their political agenda.

Anonymous George of the Hole December 04, 2012 4:27 PM  

As long as anyone who is interested in politics does that, they'll have zero success in advancing their political agenda.

Lol!

Blogger James Dixon December 04, 2012 4:27 PM  

> So you're deriding them for not stopping tax increases that they have no ability to stop anyways.

Very few here are all that worried about the tax increases. They're minor. It's the spending we have to get under control.

> All politics in America has and is played in the middle, not on the outskirts.

Yes, because Obama is such a moderate. Do you even read what you post Tad?

> The GOP, for whatever reasons, is portrayed as more and more playing not near the middle, but on the outskirts

Key word, "portrayed". By a media that's in the tank for the democratic party.

> If the GOP does not compromise on some things, they will find themselves without any power to drive any agenda.

If they do, they'll be turned on by their base and find themselves without any power to drive any agenda. Decisions, decisions.

Blogger Pepper December 04, 2012 4:33 PM  

Just detached from the GOP within the last few weeks, actually. People with conservative values have no political representatives at the federal level. I understand that now. The GOP establishment is comprised of talking points, actors and street prostitutes. The GOP's goal is to lie well enough to conservatives to get them to vote for a system that seeks nothing more than to destroy them.

Anonymous Porky? December 04, 2012 4:35 PM  

Tad, since Obama made a campaign promise to cut the deficit in half - and instead quadrupled it - should we (based upon your above assertion) conclude that he was A) dishonest, B) a complete and utter failure, or C) he has another agenda.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 December 04, 2012 4:39 PM  

@Tad

Extremism in pursuit of political victory is no strategy. Where can conservatives go on the national level where they would have any opportunity to push their agenda if not the GOP? The answer is nowhere.

You want purity from the GOP. No faction ever got their form of purity pushed. Ever. And you expect the GOP to march lockstep with the far right conservatives? If you are looking to push any part of your agenda that's a losing plan.


I don't care for either party as neither has my interests in mind. Also, I am not conservative nor libertarian even, just simply anti-Utopian and largely politically nihilistic.

Nice job ignoring my initial point too. Extremism works especially among women voters. Ask the Nazis how they got to power.

Anonymous Noah B. December 04, 2012 4:45 PM  

"Tad, since Obama made a campaign promise to cut the deficit in half - and instead quadrupled it"

The deficit began to balloon in FY2009, and TARP was largely the cause of the deficit first exceeding $1T. Let's be fair, the Republicans, especially Bush and McCain, own that. Bush signed that monster, and McCain thought it was such a good idea that he suspended his campaign to support it. Obama sure hasn't cut the deficit in half, but he hasn't quadrupled it (yet) either.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 04, 2012 4:46 PM  

To Vox:

Q: "Why stay Republican?"

A: Why not? It's great sport!

Honestly, I can't take elections here seriously anymore. Nor can I escape their effects.

My soul is God's, I hope. I would rather seek His Kingdom. All we can do is teach our babies to get along in this world as best as they can.

-L.H.

Anonymous Sexual Chocolate Imperion December 04, 2012 4:56 PM  

Seriously Vox, this sandbox is being far to frivolous to not paying attention to the sublime ... [that graphic of Barry is.......... interesting, at a minimum]

Anonymous DT December 04, 2012 5:02 PM  

Tad - The problem the GOP has today is the modern day equivalent of the Birchers: The Tea Party. This retrograde movement is the death of the GOP. Anti-women, anti-gay, anti-minority, anti-compromise. They and their cohorts lost the election for the GOP.

The Tea Party was formed in protest of excessive government size, taxation, and spending. In the eyes of progressives and socialists this is "anti-women, anti-gay, anti-minority" since the left defines being pro those things as distributing massive amounts of borrowed / printed / taxed dollars to them. But to any rational person this is not the case.

Why does it not surprise me that you would bleat the progressive smear of the Tea Party and its members?

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 5:49 PM  

@porky

Can you point to where Obama made this promise so I can look at it inn context?

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 5:53 PM  

@DT
The Tea Party was formed in protest of excessive government size, taxation, and spending.

That's fine, but if they expect to make any political headway in their agenda without compromise then they are nothing more than whiners

Anonymous stg58 December 04, 2012 5:57 PM  

Compromise is what got us the size, taxation and spending the Tea Party is fighting against.

You lose again.

Anonymous stg58 December 04, 2012 5:58 PM  

Compromise is what got us the size, taxation and spending the Tea Party is fighting against.

You lose again.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 04, 2012 6:15 PM  

Oooo! Ooo! I got one!

Okay:

"The only thing the Republicans conserve is their attachment to liberal compromise."

Does that need to be cleaned up?

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein December 04, 2012 6:19 PM  

Extremism in pursuit of political victory is no strategy.

It seems to work for the Democrats...

Anonymous JartStar December 04, 2012 6:42 PM  

Tad, how should the Democrats compromise on gay marriage?

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 6:57 PM  

@JarStar

Why would they compromise on Gay Marriage. There's very little at stake practically and politically. That is to say, the country is not hurt and neither are the DEMS by supporting gay marriage. And also, why the hell would anyone in the GOP take any time at all talking about gay marriage. That battle is over and done. The Supreme Court might uphold DOMA, but it doesn't matter, within a few years the vast majority of Western, Easter and Midwest states will legalize it. There's no stopping it.

The budget and deficit and entitlements are something else all together. This issue has huge implications for the DEM party and of course the country. There needs to be a path back to relative financial stability. If there is no path that way the GOP gets branded the cause first because 1) they can't claim to be without blame and 2) they did not come to the table in a meaningful way.

But if nothing is done, the DEMS lose too. They just happen to be in a slightly stronger bargaining position now.

The GOP, I think needs to understand that they can get part of what they want by giving in on higher taxes at the top end. They CAN get entitlement reform from the Dems. Everyone knows this. They can also get discretionary budget cuts. Everyone knows this.

Lately, the GOP extreme anti-taxers have been reminding folks of what happened to Bush I in 1992 when he broke his "no new taxes" pledge. They say this is why he lost. It's not. It's because Ross Perot took GOP voters who did not go Perot's way because Bush broke his pledge.

If I was the GOP and wanted to help the country and my constituents, I'd put the smartest and and most savvy people I have on my side in a room and instruct them to come up with a practical and viable way to fix social security and medicare and how to be able to take credit for it. Social Security isn't the third rail anymore like it used to be. That's a winning ticket for the GOP.

They also need someone who can communicate to the 21st century electorate. If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on Christie to play that role.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 7:00 PM  

@STG

Compromise is what got us the size, taxation and spending the Tea Party is fighting against.

No its not. what got us where we are is the DEMS AND THE GOP agreeing to fight two wars without paying for it, agreeing to put a new prescription drug program in place without paying for it, dropping tax rates to an historic low, and the housing bubble blowing up.

Blogger Duke of Earl December 04, 2012 7:03 PM  

After MMP (proportional representation) came in in New Zealand, our main parties Labour and National (Democrat and Republican equivalents) did become more like each other in policy in order to attract votes. The main party would go centrist (in New Zealand that's pretty close to what you'd call socialist) to get votes, and then they'd form coalitions with minor parties that suited their flavour in order to get over 50% of seats in Parliament.

Unfortunately in America you only have two parties, and to get the majority of votes they have to be pretty much interchangeable.

Anonymous stg58 December 04, 2012 7:12 PM  

Tad,

The government, police and welfare state started growing long before W took office. W was merely the cherry on top. The GOP, who says they want to protect our rights, compromise and back down at every opportunity when the Democrats as well as the GOP as a whole want to infringe on our rights.

By the way, the only way to reform SS, medicare and medicaid is to gradually abolish them.

Anonymous stg58 December 04, 2012 7:13 PM  

Tad,

The government, police and welfare state started growing long before W took office. W was merely the cherry on top. The GOP, who says they want to protect our rights, compromise and back down at every opportunity when the Democrats as well as the GOP as a whole want to infringe on our rights.

By the way, the only way to reform SS, medicare and medicaid is to gradually abolish them.

Anonymous Scintan December 04, 2012 7:22 PM  

I just wanted to point out that Romney being unelectable doesn't somehow mean that Paul was electable. Both were terrible candidates. There wasn't a decent candidate in the Democrat primaries, the Republican primaries, or anywhere on the presidential ballot.

This goes back to my whole point about the politically conservative needing to infiltrate from the ground up. What's at the top of pretty much every party is garbage, and that includes the Libertarians and smaller parties, as well as the big two.

Anonymous Godfrey December 04, 2012 7:24 PM  

Politics is about power and wealth. The Republican leadership is not interested in principle or ideology. These things are merely academic. They’re intellectual masturbation for philosophers. Like all the other factions among the ruling elite, they’re interested power.

We’re in a dilemma. Given the human condition, we literally can’t win in the short run. The competing political factions are focused on obtaining the support of the unsophisticated majority among the masses. That’s where the political battle is being fought. The skeptics, those who understand where this is all headed, are a small minority.

We must face reality. The vast majority of people around us believe the lies spewed by the narcissistic sociopaths who run this world. We’re surrounded by people who resemble livestock. They think they’re going to be fed, clothed and housed.

Blogger James Dixon December 04, 2012 8:10 PM  

> Can you point to where Obama made this promise so I can look at it inn context?

Tad, I'm sure you can go to www.google.com and type in "Obama cut the deficit in half" as well as any of us. Or am I being too generous?

> ...but if they expect to make any political headway in their agenda without compromise then they are nothing more than whiners

Who says we won't compromise? I'm perfectly willing to compromise. I want the budget cut by 50%. I'm willing to compromise on 25$, and even throw in some tax increases in the bargain, since the democrats insist that's so important. First, let's eliminate the deductions for housing and state taxes. Then let's add a federal surtax equal to 50% of your top state income tax rate. Then we can institute a 90% tax on all non-salary income for federally elected officials; a 75% tax on gross revenues of the film, tv, and newspaper companies; an additional 25% tax for all federal employees and contractors' and a 50% tax rate on all income for union members. There a compromise.

> They CAN get entitlement reform from the Dems.

Oh, that's a good one. And I didn't think you had a sense of humor, Tad.

> I'd put the smartest and and most savvy people I have on my side in a room and instruct them to come up with a practical and viable way to fix social security and medicare and how to be able to take credit for it.

And those people would tell you that there's absolutely no way to save Social Security and Medicare as they currently exist. It's going to take either doubling the taxes or cutting the benefits in half, and that's a best case scenario.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 8:28 PM  

Tad, I'm sure you can go to www.google.com and type in "Obama cut the deficit in half" as well as any of us. Or am I being too generous?

I did that, but all the returns on google simple speak to him having said it, and don't site the time and place.

Also, many of your tax increases are unconstitutional. And, you don't eliminate the mortgage deduction. You cap it. Eliminating it will kill the housing recovering.

Anonymous JartStar December 04, 2012 8:30 PM  

If I was the GOP and wanted to help the country and my constituents, I'd put the smartest and and most savvy people I have on my side in a room and instruct them to come up with a practical and viable way to fix social security and medicare and how to be able to take credit for it.

So what you are saying, is that if the GOP doesn't do this, the programs are doomed? If not, then I see no need for the GOP if the DEMS will eventually figure it out. Are the DEMS incapable of saving the programs without a GOP?

Anonymous Non-affiliated December 04, 2012 8:31 PM  

The day of the election I re-registered as a non-affiliated voter after being a life-long Republican. It occurred to me as I held my nose and voted for Romney that in my entire voting life that except for my first presidential election (Reagan), I had never had my primary choice win the nomination. It was time to move on.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 8:32 PM  

@Scinton
I just wanted to point out that Romney being unelectable doesn't somehow mean that Paul was electable.

Romney was electable. He just f'd up in the primaries. He didn't need to take a hard stand on immigration against Perry and be saddle with that position in the general. He didn't need to do a lot of hard right things he did to win the primaries. He could have won. He needed Ohio and FL.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 8:45 PM  

@Jart

No, what I'm saying is that the GOP needs a new raison d'etre. That requires some heavy lifting on their part. The GOP gets back in the game by figuring out how to save SS and MC for those who in their 40s. I have no idea why the GOP isn't suggesting the following.

You back up defense spending. You back up the age of eligibility for SS and MC. The Safety net programs drop as the economy goes and you leave those as they are, otherwise you've got huge crime and housing problems. You whack about 10% of discretionary spending which is now about 20% of the budget. Let the Bush tax cuts lapse at $400K and above. You cap deductions at a similar amount or higher.

Also, if you did all these things, the markets would respond with huge gains.

Anonymous JartStar December 04, 2012 9:03 PM  

Tad, we may be talking past each other, but why are the Democrats not doing what you suggested instead? I don't give a flying weasel's sphincter if the GOP survives or needs a reason to exist.

The only reason they need to exist is that if you think they can accomplish something that the Democrats cannot do. What can the GOP do the Democrats cannot accomplish?

I cannot think of a single thing the GOP can accomplish the Democrats cannot do on their own. I don't see a reason for the GOP to exist anymore.

Anonymous Van December 04, 2012 9:04 PM  

the GOP has been chasing the center for decades, but can't catch it because the Dems drag it along as they move ever leftward. JFK wouldn't recognize his party today; Obama (even if white) would've been unelectable not too long ago. Now, Obama, obviously a Marxist, is just left of center, while Romney, barely even a Republican, is painted as a right wing extremist. This is the case because the GOP rarely does anything but compromise, allowing the center to move and setting up the next compromise. When the Dems want bigger government and the GOP asks to stay the same, a compromise results in bigger government.

Today's GOP is only conservative in relative terms. In absolute terms (compared to the spectrum of ideology available), they are liberal. They don't really oppose a single policy supported by the Dems. The disagreement is typically over how much, or how to acheive a shared goal. The little squabbles over small changes in tax rates and spending do not represent ideological differences.

Anonymous Noah B. December 04, 2012 9:13 PM  

Tad, what do you mean when you suggest that the GOP "back up" defense spending and the ages of eligibility for entitlements?

Anonymous Righteous gobbler December 04, 2012 9:17 PM  

Conservatives and other forms of true patriots fumbled the ball long ago when they obliviously looked the other way as hard leftists began infiltrating and commandeering educational institutions (and that includes all major media and pop culture).

Apparently their Asperger's wouldn't let them see what should have been obvious. Now a profound price is being payed for such unconscionable negligence. Perhaps Christian patriots should stop quibbling about this or that political party or politician, it's just a stupid diversion and smoke and mirrors anyway.

We, meaning people who care for the Country as a nation of righteousness, should began the arduous task of taking the country back by doing what the lefties have been hard at work doing for decades; that is using the profound influence of education, news and entertainment media.

It's a long road but we can keep fussing over who's going to the president and we'll just keep watching the country slid into an nihilistic, atheistic sewer, while self-satisfied leftist "elites" will keep smirking at our short-sighted stupidity or we can start to dismantle the current conservative paradigm of cluelessness and actually think long term.

Anonymous DT December 04, 2012 9:32 PM  

Tad - That's fine, but if they expect to make any political headway in their agenda without compromise then they are nothing more than whiners

Are you recanting your position that they are "anti-women, anti-gay, anti-minority"?

Why would they (Democrats) compromise on Gay Marriage.

Because if they expect to make any political headway in their agenda without compromise then they are nothing more than whiners.

And also, why the hell would anyone in the GOP take any time at all talking about gay marriage. That battle is over and done.

Don't you just love progressive talking points? The majority of the U.S. population has consistently polled against gay marriage, even in a state as liberal as California. But according to progressives "the battle is over and done" so you should just accept the progressive viewpoint without compromise and "move on."

Tad: the people have repeatedly spoken on gay marriage, and they do not want it. The battle is over and done and you need to respect the democratic expression and self determination of the American people. Stop wasting time talking about it and move on.

The budget and deficit and entitlements are something else all together. This issue has huge implications for the DEM party and of course the country. There needs to be a path back to relative financial stability. If there is no path that way the GOP gets branded the cause first because 1) they can't claim to be without blame and 2) they did not come to the table in a meaningful way.

Obama's plan has no compromises. Boehner's plan is full of compromises. Yet you bleat the progressive line that it's Republicans who did not come to the table in a meaningful way.

If Obama expects to make any political headway in his agenda without compromise then he is nothing more than a whiner.

The GOP, I think needs to understand that they can get part of what they want by giving in on higher taxes at the top end. They CAN get entitlement reform from the Dems. Everyone knows this. They can also get discretionary budget cuts. Everyone knows this.

What everyone knows is that the Democrats will promise entitlement reform and discretionary spending cuts now, and then never deliver. Republican compromise is no different from Charlie Brown racing towards the football because this time Lucy really will hold the ball. And everyone...Democrats, Republican voters, Libertarians, independents...everyone laughs and thinks Republican leaders are stupid losers like Charlie Brown when they rush the ball, have it pulled, and fall flat on their backs yet again.

This is progressive compromise in a nutshell: you give me what I want today in law, and I promise I really will think about giving you what you want sometime in the future, maybe.

If I was the GOP...

This is like Satan walking up to a Christian and saying "If I were you and wanted to please God..."

Going back to battles which are over and done: given the current state of the economy tax increases will not result in an increase in tax revenue. They will result in a decrease in tax revenue. Shame on Republicans for not pointing out this plain and obvious truth. Tax increases are not a credible solution to the current debt crisis. They are just another way for progressives, who are not at all serious about tackling this nation's debt and economic crisis, to play class warfare for votes.

Anonymous DT December 04, 2012 9:35 PM  

Eliminating it will kill the housing recovering.

You can't kill something that doesn't exist.

Anonymous JartStar December 04, 2012 9:44 PM  

I don't remember so much analysis going on in previous elections of why a party lost like what is going on in the MSM over the Romney loss. At first I thought it was simply gloating and trying to tell the GOP how to be Democrats, but now I'm starting to think the left is scared of a powerless GOP as they will lose their scapegoat and people will hold them accountable. They need the horse race in every election to legitimize their victories. If the Dems become a super majority over the next decade, which they likely will, then they will get the blame when the country goes broke, which it will as well.

Anonymous kh123 December 04, 2012 9:48 PM  

"This is like Satan walking up to a Christian and saying "If I were you and wanted to please God..."

I read that as Stalin.

"Comrade, brother, if you want to please God, then you'll give up your valuables to the State to feed the people. The sacristy you can do without; the candelabra and iconostases all contain gold which can be used to pay off the State's glorious 5 Year Plan. Why do you want to wreck the economy? Give us these, and I promise, PROMISE, that we'll only co opt 50% of your churches while demolishing the other half. And we'll only jail the metropolitan on Solovki rather than shoot him - the entire prison is converted church complex, so he'll feel right at home there. Na zdarovye."

Blogger James Dixon December 04, 2012 9:52 PM  

> I did that, but all the returns on google simple speak to him having said it, and don't site the time and place.

That's strange. The very first result I get on that exact search on Google is for Politifact, which states: Obama indeed made the pledge on Feb. 23, 2009, following a "Fiscal Responsibility Summit" one month after his inauguration.

And the first result is this video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jJvkkNmR_8

Where you can presumably watch and listen for yourself.

> Also, many of your tax increases are unconstitutional.

Really? They're all income taxes, either on individuals or businesses. Don't they fall under the government's taxing authority, just like Obamacare? Or is that unconstitutional too? Besides, when has something being unconstitutional stopped either the congress or the president from passing it.

> Eliminating it will kill the housing recovering.

I thought the goal here was for everyone to pay their fair share and share the pain, Tad. Or was that a lie too?

Anonymous Noah B. December 04, 2012 9:59 PM  

"Also, many of your tax increases are unconstitutional"

Yeah, I liked that too. No problem with taxes as they currently exist, but changing them into a form that he personally doesn't like is unconstitutional. Clearly Tad ain't all there.

Anonymous Frank Brady December 04, 2012 10:04 PM  

Amen. The neoconservatives are not conservatives at all. They are Trotskyite socialists. The neocon Fascist Lie Machine (WSJ editorial page, The Weekly Standard, Fox News, The Washington Times, etc.) is every bit as corrupt, evil, and dangerous as the Democrat Socialist Lie Machine (CNN, the Broadcast Networks, and most of the print media).

Anonymous Stilicho December 04, 2012 10:11 PM  

Your problem, Tad, is that you've placed the emphasis upon political influence, political agendas and worldly power. When this is primarily what one cares about then compromise, false campaign promises, hypocrisy, graft, lies, and political double-talk are no longer things to be ashamed of, they are the tools of the trade.

Enjoy the paltry worldly power that you currently have been given. It tends to be fleeting and unfulfilling in the end.


George, we can certainly agree on this. Welcome to the debate. We're not much on membership cards, but I think you can get a T-shirt at cafepress if you are so inclined.

Anonymous Boetain December 04, 2012 10:15 PM  

Can we go off half a cliff? There is no problem with the spending cut side of this cliff - it should even be cliffened a lot more. Then when we fall off the cliff we should bounce so high as to hit the un-raised debt ceiling, and then go off another horrible cliff called balanced budget.

Anonymous Frank Brady December 04, 2012 10:18 PM  

Tad is a moral and intellectual pygmy, a literal embodiment of the West's fatal disease.

Anonymous A Visitor December 04, 2012 10:33 PM  

If you are asking how one might work within Big Brother's two-faced unified party to affect conservative success, well, imagine a boot... I love it. I was looking for my copy of 1984 yesterday, seemed to have misplaced it.

My soul is God's, I hope. I would rather seek His Kingdom. All we can do is teach our babies to get along in this world as best as they can. Another thing to keep in mind is to follow God's law first and foremost. No gay marriage, etc.

I'd put my money on Christie to play that role. Christ, a centrist puke…

The GOP gets back in the game by figuring out how to save SS and MC for those who in their 40s. Why? My parents, in their mid-50s know they'll never see a dime of either program. I know that nobody under the age of 65 will ever see a dime of that program. It's finished. If I could time travel back to the mid-60s, I'd ***** slap LBJ for signing the Hart-Cellar Immigration Act and his Great Society, two worthless actions that have helped propel the destruction of our republic.

Conservatives and other forms of true patriots fumbled the ball long ago when they obliviously looked the other way as hard leftists began infiltrating and commandeering educational institutions (and that includes all major media and pop culture). Yep and now we're reaping the rewards of that.

Boehner has shown his worthlessness time and time again. Today with his purges was simply the latest step. I hope, in all sincerity, we go off this cliff. Maybe, just maybe, if 98% of the country's tax rates go up, enough people will just eject all incumbents come 2014. I'm not holding my breath, though.

Anonymous A Visitor December 04, 2012 10:35 PM  

That should read "Christie, a centrist puke" not "Christ, a centrist puke"

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein December 04, 2012 11:05 PM  

the GOP has been chasing the center for decades, but can't catch it because the Dems drag it along as they move ever leftward. 

Precisely!

When Ronald Reagan-- a New Deal Democrat, switched to the GOP; he said that he had not left the Democratic party, it had left him. As far back as the 1970s this FDR New Dealer was considered to be "radical" and "conservative."

Anonymous cherub's revenge December 04, 2012 11:07 PM  

Tad is a moral and intellectual pygmy, a literal embodiment of the West's fatal disease.

Yeah, he's a Jew. One with probably a gaggle of Cheka in his family tree here telling conservative Whites that radical politics in pursuit of power won't work.

I'm sure he gives this advice with all sincerity and genuine concern.

Anonymous kh123 December 04, 2012 11:42 PM  

Another article from Politico on the heels of the one above:

"[Republicans] said, the money would be raised through closing a bevy of unspecified tax loopholes and deductions, while attempting to lower marginal rates. In exchange, they called for a range of spending cuts, including $600 billion from health care savings, partly by increasing by two years the Medicare eligibility age to 67, and by cutting $200 billion by overhauling how inflation is calculated, a proposal that would affect Social Security benefits." [Emphasis mine]

I'm not savvy enough to decipher that last part correctly: Does this mean that inflation calculations would get the standard BLS massage (unemployment is down, since those out of work longer than 6 months are simply not counted, etc); or does it simply mean more Fed chicanery via the printing press.

With the GOP's standards of what constitutes serious fiscal conservatism, it's hard to tell whether or not their proposals are on the same plane as Soviet posthumous rehabilitation.

Anonymous Tad December 04, 2012 11:53 PM  

@Noah

Tad, what do you mean when you suggest that the GOP "back up" defense spending and the ages of eligibility for entitlements?

I mean cut the defense budget and increase the age of eligibility for SS.

Anonymous Says Cicero December 05, 2012 12:23 AM  

One day, we'll get a real conservative, if only. If only. If only. And he will hand us back, on a gold platter, our republic.

Anonymous Roundtine December 05, 2012 1:03 AM  

Does this mean that inflation calculations would get the standard BLS massage

It's not a massage, it's a different calculation. The "new" formula (they calculate it all the time and report it, but it isn't for official use) always understates inflation because it assumes people buy cheaper stuff when prices go up. It's the formula that most people think they already use, swapping hamburgers for steaks. Currently, they don't swap hamburgers for steak, what they do is assume if steak or hamburger prices are up in City X, the residents will shop around and find the lower priced steak. The goods and services are the same, but they assume you comparison shop, and it causes CPI to be slightly lower.

A switch to the new formula would mean the CPI basket changes. That could lower the CPI by a lot as more people move down the ladder.

Anonymous rubberducky December 05, 2012 1:30 AM  

The unthinkable has to happen. The current American welfare state has to be repudiated, lock stock and barrel. The government has overpromised on entitlements. It cannot make good on all this. What we behold now is a political dance whose point is affixing the blame for the lies. People are going to suffer. Everything is about shaping the political space so blame can be placed. Washington only cares about making sure the other guy is to blame, even as they tighten the screws.

Of course, in the fulness of history, it is obvious as the day is long who is to blame for every welfare state policy, and those guys are leftists and progressives to a man. The left is counting on the reliable problems of human nature, of course, hoping to spin the blame around the immediate problem.

They may well succeed. They control the means to pull it off. Our only succor in the resistance is that this won't fly in the long run. The truth will out. The problem for us is that we might be long dead before it outs, but hey. What can you do?

Anonymous George of the Hole December 05, 2012 1:51 AM  

Rubberducky: "...but hey. What can you do?"

Repent.

Anonymous Todd December 05, 2012 1:59 AM  

Robert S. Oculus III: "Why bother trying to teach a pig to sing?"

reminds me an old saying:

"Don't mud wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig likes it."

Anonymous George of the Hole December 05, 2012 2:02 AM  

Tad: "Politics is about compromise."

Which is why it is inherently corrupt. The more powerful the government, the more corrupt.

You cannot understand this.



Anonymous kh123 December 05, 2012 3:18 AM  

Roundtine, thanks for bringing up to speed. Is a good reminder for me to go back over Vox's lectures on the CPI-U, if I remember correctly.

Blogger James Dixon December 05, 2012 5:43 AM  

> I did that, but all the returns on google simple speak to him having said it, and don't site the time and place.

So, Tad, have you reviewed Obama's statements now that I've given you the links you inexplicably couldn't find?

Nor have you admitted that what I posted above is indeed a compromise, or at least more of one than the one Obama is offering the republicans.

Blogger James Higham December 05, 2012 6:13 AM  

If you are a conservative who is still a Republican, I have a very simple question to ask you: why?

Precisely, Vox, precisely.

Anonymous scoobius dubious December 05, 2012 8:24 AM  

Unlike the Dems, the GOP is a party without any constituency beyond the party's payroll -- that is to say, the GOP literally only represents their own government office-holders, their staff and and think-tanks and lobbyists, and their high-end financial contributors, not a single damn person more. The Dems at least know who their constituents are, and aggressively represent their interests -- to the country's detriment of course, but at least to the observable benefit of their (largely non-American, un-American, and/or anti-American) clientele.

The GOP, in their unrelenting eagerness to roll over and bend over and kneel and abandon at the drop of a hat any characteristic ideals, principles, or policy ideas that would actually identify them as a distinct political party, demonstrate that they really quite literally only represent Republican office-holders, for the sole purpose of retaining salaries and perks and the enjoyment of power; and their financial backers, for the purposes of getting a return on their investment. They represent no one else. They are an Inner Party without an Outer Party; or rather, one whose Outer Party is routinely fleeced, deceived, and kicked to the curb. It's really quite a remarkable racket when you think about it. What hell could be hot enough for them?

The only lasting solution capable of yielding confirmable results will be whites-only secession. State by state secession will not solve anything, even if it were possible (which realistically it won't be), since all the pathologies of diversity will simply be reproduced in microcosm. White Christian Americans (which is another way of saying, "Americans"), if anything like liberty is to survive on this continent, are going to have to decisively and permanently separate themselves from blacks, Mexicans, Asians, Muslims, and above all from Jews.

If whites were to act now (which of course they won't), they could easily secure roughly 60 to 70% of the soon-to-be-former USA; and while the continental political furniture was being re-arranged, they could probably absorb a fair amount of a willing Canada in the process, too. They are going to have to act eventually, but things being the way they are, they will probably wait until the situation is way too dire and far-gone, and wind up with only about 20 to 30% of this continent.

Which is a pity, because the whole of North America was a natural fortress, easily defended and virtually unconquerable from without, so long as it was defended by a people with even a smidgen of determination. Turns out, after all the long slogs of the twentieth century, we didn't even have the smidgen. Now, however, it will eventually be fractured into a bunch of ludicrous racial satrapies, a reproduction of every pathology of the Old World which the Founders hoped to escape. Nice going.

Anonymous Edjamacator December 05, 2012 9:32 AM  

Conservatives and other forms of true patriots fumbled the ball long ago when they obliviously looked the other way as hard leftists began infiltrating and commandeering educational institutions (and that includes all major media and pop culture). Yep and now we're reaping the rewards of that.

I've been saying for awhile now that the problem has been for a long time simply the fact that conservative parents don't bother explaining WHY liberalism/socialism/etc is wrong and does damage, but only tells them (if they do that much) that it is/does. "We're Republicans because we've always voted that way" doesn't mean crap when their kid is being bombarded daily by leftist nonsense coupled with emotional manipulation. If parents had taken the time to show the competing views and point out all the ways leftists have failed even those they claim to help, we may not have come to this point at this time.

Leftists don't have that problem. They always explain why they think they are right. It's just that with them, it's all emotional tripe and slurs against those who don't see things their way. Impressionable kids don't have the strength to fight against that, for the most part.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza December 05, 2012 9:35 AM  

Easy but painful answer; there is no way to abide by, place any confidence, in this absurd political system.

Anonymous scoobius dubious December 05, 2012 9:41 AM  

A major substructural problem is that conservatives are basically culturally forbidden to speak the truth about race, religion and ethnicity -- the phenomena which are the actual controllers of what society and politics turn out to really be. And even if they did manage to say it, the leftist-controlled MSM would either shout them down, drown them out, or else maliciously misrepresent their message.

Anonymous Tad December 05, 2012 10:09 AM  

@George
Tad: "Politics is about compromise."

Which is why it is inherently corrupt. The more powerful the government, the more corrupt.

You cannot understand this.


You may be right George. Maybe politics is inherently corrupt. However, I think it must be a form of corruption that we must embrace if we choose to to live in a representative democracy. I suppose I could quote Churchill here, but we've all heard it before.

Anonymous Edjamacator December 05, 2012 10:25 AM  

However, I think it must be a form of corruption that we must embrace if we choose to to live in a representative democracy.

Well, you know what they say about having low standards.

Anonymous George of the Hole December 05, 2012 11:35 AM  

Tad: You may be right George. Maybe politics is inherently corrupt. However, I think it must be a form of corruption that we must embrace if we choose to to live in a representative democracy.

You can embrace corruption or you can stand against it. You've obviously made your choice.







Anonymous Heh December 05, 2012 12:11 PM  

The GOP... demonstrate that they really quite literally only represent Republican office-holders, for the sole purpose of retaining salaries and perks and the enjoyment of power; and their financial backers, for the purposes of getting a return on their investment. They represent no one else. They are an Inner Party without an Outer Party; or rather, one whose Outer Party is routinely fleeced, deceived, and kicked to the curb.

Well duh, that is because the GOP is the Outer Party of the real Inner Party (the Democrats). The GOP is a sham party designed to preserve the illusion of democratic choice.

Like these guys!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_Germany_(East_Germany)

"The National Democratic Party of Germany was an East German political party that acted as an organisation for former members of the NSDAP, the Wehrmacht and middle classes...

The NDPD programme demanded, among other things, the promotion of the middle class and an end to discrimination against former members of the Nazi Party."

Blogger James Dixon December 05, 2012 3:11 PM  

I see Tad's apparently still to busy trying to figure out how to use Google to answer my question.

Anonymous kh123 December 05, 2012 3:21 PM  

"You back up defense spending. You back up the age of eligibility for SS and MC. The Safety net programs drop as the economy goes and you leave those as they are, otherwise you've got huge crime and housing problems."

In other words, you recognize the possibility of the Visigoths rising from a beneficent America; which, having nurtured them, now must deal with them in the event of a collapse by placating them with a continual stream of unsustainable services.

Which party has primarily been appealing to this demographic for decades? Where exactly will this huge crime wave come from?

Anonymous Gx1080 December 05, 2012 11:20 PM  

Tad, don't be coy. If you think that we don't know that the Supreme Court will impose gay marriage on the entire US like they did with abortion, don't worry, we are aware.

For starters, is completely obvious.

Anonymous Praetorian December 06, 2012 4:07 PM  

The Dems now have a permanent majority, built on a base of minorities and single women. Tad is wrong or attempting subterfuge re a hispanic middle class: hispanic culture is very comfortable with socialism, and there will be no major shift right over time.

Tad is right, however, about the GOP's prospects. The GOP is toast and it's only hope for electoral success is to become a Democrats-lite. That would only work for a bit while the inexorable social collapse proceeds and, if the social conservative base stayed home, it might not work at all.

So, sorry to say, the only way out is through. Vote radical-left and withdraw consent.

Anonymous map December 07, 2012 8:24 AM  

Tad and the rest of you don't seem to understand that the fiscal concerns are all nonsense and irrelevant. SS and Medicare will continue to get funded no matter what happens. Military personnel will continue getting paid and getting work. These are non-issues.

In fact, the GOP has been a party of fiscal and monetary issues for two decades. The do not talk about anything else. Their entire political agenda is bean-counting. It goes nowhere because a large percentage of that bean-counting will destroy white people.

The purpose of politics is to reward your friends and punish your enemies. What does the GOP do for the constituency that backs it? It does nothing.

Meanwhile, the Democrats do everything to benefit their constituency at the expense of Republican constituencies. Even the vaunted Clinton surplus was built on the backs of reducing Republican military personnel to food stamps.

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