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Wednesday, December 19, 2012

Homeschool or die: Part 563

What does a teacher have to do to lose her job?
A teacher tried to hire a gang member to assault her principal because she was being hassled about lies she told to the school, a disciplinary hearing has found. The high school teacher, whose name is suppressed, told a student she would "sort something out" for her if she arranged for her grandfather, who had gang connections, to confront the principal.

The teacher told a colleague she had arranged for the principal to be "capped", which the colleague took to mean an injury to the knees. Despite her "unprofessional" actions and "serious misconduct", the Teachers' Council has given the teacher permission to return to the classroom after a disciplinary hearing last month.  The disciplinary tribunal heard the teacher also fabricated grades for work not done by students, forged the head of department's signature, and lied about what classes she had taught.
It's a refreshing reminder in the midst of all the Saint Teacher stories coming out of Connecticut that teachers are no saintlier, and on average a little less intelligent, than the norm.  One of the more powerful arguments in favor of homeschooling is that intelligent children will not be "taught" by half-educated women with IQs averaging two and three standard deviations below them.

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202 Comments:

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Anonymous Amir Larijani December 19, 2012 9:08 AM  

Granted, that appears to be from New Zealand, but--still--I could easily see something like this happen in any number of U.S. cities. Pretty sad.

Blogger Shimshon December 19, 2012 9:11 AM  

Given the choice hamster quotes, I'd say this belongs on the other blog too.

Blogger IM2L844 December 19, 2012 9:12 AM  

If only deranged rampage killers could be more discriminating...

Anonymous DT December 19, 2012 9:14 AM  

Obviously the solution is stronger teacher's unions, higher taxes, and larger educational budgets.

And gun control.

Anonymous Josh December 19, 2012 9:19 AM  

And smaller classrooms

Anonymous DrTorch December 19, 2012 9:20 AM  

Interesting filestock photo to go w/ the story.

I'm sure there were no Maori, asians or others involved. Uh-uh. Just middle-class white folk.

Of interest:
http://todaynewsgazette.com/boy-awarded-6-9-million/

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 December 19, 2012 9:29 AM  

Wow. This teacher must be a total bitch. She lies, gets caught, then hires a person to physically assault her superior for calling her out in her lie.

Special people who in older times would have been stoned to death for this behavior.

Anonymous DonReynolds December 19, 2012 9:31 AM  

It is a true statement that many of the marginal college students manage to graduate by majoring in education (elementary or secondary). In fact, even some of the more difficult majors in math and science are attainable for the dimwitted if they take a teaching track, which enables them to completely substitute education courses for some of the really difficult or advanced courses and still graduate.

I have taught at eleven colleges and universities and attended seven others, and this has been consistently true on every campus. Yes, public school teachers were often those students who would have otherwise flunked out of college if the teaching majors had not been available. Children in public schools are often taught (or bullied) by teachers less intelligent than themselves.

Anonymous VryeDenker December 19, 2012 9:31 AM  

Five New Zealand Drachma's (or whatever their currency's called) says the teacher has what passes for a "ghetto-name" in New Zealand. Pipiritookie-naamkwa or somesuch.

Anonymous The Great Martini December 19, 2012 9:50 AM  

On the whole, I think teachers are pretty damn saintly. They don't get paid a hell of a lot, and for that they do a lot of work and put in a lot of effort. The teachers who were killed apparently did their best to save their kids when they could have been looking out for themselves, and some of them even rushed the guy, unsuccessfully. This is the kind of valor not often found on the battlefield, but you seem to find it tiresome.

Blogger Holden December 19, 2012 9:54 AM  

...by half-educated women with IQs averaging two and three standard deviations below them."

I received a handwritten disciplinary note once for my son when he was in elementary school complete with grammatical errors and one misspelled word. I corrected the errors and signed the note. The note started, "(Son's name) he all doin disruptions in my classroom"

Blogger IM2L844 December 19, 2012 9:59 AM  

Children in public schools are often taught (or bullied) by teachers less intelligent than themselves.

The bullying really begins if you call them out on their stupidity in front of the class.

My high school geometry teacher smugly proclaimed, by way of a challenge, to the class that it was impossible to trisect an angle with just a compass and a straight edge. I proceeded to demonstrate to the class that he was wrong. He wasn't very appreciative of the learning experience and attempted to torment me for the remainder of my time in his class and beyond (He quit teaching and became a cop in my small home town).

Anonymous jm December 19, 2012 10:01 AM  

Her name must be suppressed because she is a victim. Obviously.

Anonymous VD December 19, 2012 10:02 AM  

On the whole, I think teachers are pretty damn saintly. They don't get paid a hell of a lot, and for that they do a lot of work and put in a lot of effort.

That's absurd. Teachers are wildly overpaid: they are paid more and do less work than the average worker. They also have below-average IQs.

Anonymous scoobius dubious December 19, 2012 10:06 AM  

OT, but back when I was in I think third grade, I had a teacher with a funny accent (sort of a nasal Massachusetts-type thing).

During a parent-teacher conference, she told my mother, "Your son is very autistic." My mother: "He's WHAT?!?" TEACHER: "He's autistic. He draws, and he paints... he makes a lot of very nice aut."

One for the family lore.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 19, 2012 10:10 AM  

Why doesn't anyone press charges with the local law enforcement or DA for this crap?

Blogger A December 19, 2012 10:12 AM  

One teacher, a woman in New Zealand, acts like a total bitch and suddenly teachers everywhere are less intelligent than the norm. I find that hard to believe, and honestly, with the massive glut in education majors graduating and looking for teaching work, only the very well connected or very hard working types can find work in the teaching profession this day and age, the stupid and lazy get weeded out naturally by not being able to get a job and substitute for years.

Teachers do provide a valuable service (babysitting) for households with two working parents, and maybe, just maybe, some education will be provided for the delinquents. Personally, I am a huge fan of homeschooling, but I think teachers would still exist, even if the institution were completely private as long as high school diplomas were still considered mandatory for most jobs. People can still educate themselves and become highly skilled and knowledgeable on topics without earning a degree, but degrees still enforce a pecking order in job promotions. Diplomas would do the same for God knows how long, even homeschoolers have to have some document that proves they learned anything.

Anonymous Poli_Mis December 19, 2012 10:21 AM  

Scoob's on a roll today. That was nice.

Anonymous VD December 19, 2012 10:22 AM  

One teacher, a woman in New Zealand, acts like a total bitch and suddenly teachers everywhere are less intelligent than the norm. I find that hard to believe, and honestly, with the massive glut in education majors graduating and looking for teaching work, only the very well connected or very hard working types can find work in the teaching profession this day and age, the stupid and lazy get weeded out naturally by not being able to get a job and substitute for years.

No. Teachers, being mostly education majors, have the lowest test scores of any college major. Being surprised that teachers tend to have low IQs is like being surprised that physicists tend to have high IQs.

Blogger IM2L844 December 19, 2012 10:23 AM  

One teacher, a woman in New Zealand, acts like a total bitch and suddenly teachers everywhere are less intelligent than the norm.

It's a documented statistical fact. A link to the source has previously been provided on this blog, if you want to search for it.

Anonymous Josh December 19, 2012 10:26 AM  

On the whole, I think teachers are pretty damn saintly. They don't get paid a hell of a lot, and for that they do a lot of work and put in a lot of effort. 

Wrong. The Chicago teachers on average were paid $50 or $70 per hour, and worked either 900 or 1300 hours per school year.

Anonymous scoobius dubious December 19, 2012 10:27 AM  

"Diplomas would do the same for God knows how long, even homeschoolers have to have some document that proves they learned anything."

Diplomas have to have a standard meaning, indicating certain standard things, if they're to be used as a realistic yardstick of anything. Right now that isn't the case; in 1910, it was.

Back in the premodern world, one of the effective yardsticks, equivalent to a diploma, was proficiency in Latin and Greek. It didn't really matter whether you got it from a private tutor or a grammar school. It was easily verifiable whether you knew it or not, and if you did, that was a pretty good indicator of your ability to learn other complicated things. Mission accomplished.

As usual, the roots of all these troubles are diversity, the demonstrably false assumption that everyone has the same abilities, and the subsequent warping of policy in the ever-failing attempt to make reality conform with unreal and insane assumptions.

Bonus out-of-touch semiotics clue: "The teacher told a colleague she had arranged for the principal to be "capped", which the colleague took to mean an injury to the knees."

So in other words the colleague was dreamily living way in the past, thinking this word "capped" still referred to a Red Brigades practice from the 1970s. I think I can promise that her students have never heard of the Red Brigades, and meant something else entirely by the word. I wonder if the collegue was planning on attending a gay luncheon after hearing of the ostensible knee injuries.

Anonymous mapper December 19, 2012 10:28 AM  

VD: "That's absurd. Teachers are wildly overpaid"

Oh boy, +500 comment post if this quote finds its way in front of the wrong eyes.

Anonymous Krul December 19, 2012 10:30 AM  

One of the more powerful arguments in favor of homeschooling is that intelligent children will not be "taught" by half-educated women with IQs averaging two and three standard deviations below them.

Most above average IQ folks have a story about a time when they found themselves in awkward conflict with their teachers.

My story: Elementary school, the teacher said the ancient Greeks thought the world was flat and I begged to differ. I was really into the ancient Greeks at the time, having freshly completed Edith Hamilton's Mythology and some other elementary-level materials, so I was vaguely aware of Aristotle and Eratosthenes.

Anonymous scoobius dubious December 19, 2012 10:37 AM  

"Wrong. The Chicago teachers on average were paid $50 or $70 per hour"

In relatively free-market labor environments (excluding certain types of guilds, rackets, nepotism, and gubmint work), people tend to get paid not for having a high IQ per se or for showing up. They get paid according to the value they generate, which is why an illiterate NFL thug can get paid zillions of $ for catching a ball. Doesn't matter what his IQ is, people pay to watch him do it, and that's value that he generates, and so he's entitled to his bling.

Public school teachers, for the most part, based on the results we see, could be said to be actually generating negative value. With the exception of their babysitting/warehousing services. Maybe they should be paying us to be teachers, sort of like a vanity publishing house.

Anonymous Unending Improvement December 19, 2012 10:38 AM  

I never really was inculcated that school was important. I can't say I didn't have a few good teachers along the way, but I can guarantee most of them were worthless, and less intelligent than me. Meaning I had zero interest

In second grade I was reading at a fifth grade level. I wasn't a super-intelligence like Vox, but I was always smart enough I just didn't take my teachers, and thusly their homework, seriously.

Blogger James Dixon December 19, 2012 10:39 AM  

> They don't get paid a hell of a lot,

Teachers earn a well above average salary. We've had this discussion before. The figures are readily available.

Anonymous VryeDenker December 19, 2012 10:40 AM  

In grade 8, a teacher said it was impossible to recite the 12x multiplication table from 1 to 24X in under a minute. I did it in around 50 seconds. I just added 12 onto each previous answer. Granted, she was impressed and I was her favourite for a few days afterward. But then, she was a South African teacher from one of our former model C schools.

Anonymous Daniel December 19, 2012 10:48 AM  

The mere fact that the government deems 18-year old high school graduates and drop-outs capable of the complex six-week education process deemed necessary to defend themselves in a firefight in a foreign country to the point of targeting and counterattack, yet believes that our beloved teacher's core is not bright enough to comprehend nor capable of enduring the same academic standards tells you all you need to know.

It would take a few months of weekly teacher training (time already slotted) for most elementary school teachers to be state certified to carry a sidearm or rifle for security purposes.

The fact that a few brave souls charged barehanded into a firefight is a sad statement - the state didn't deem them intellectually capable of defending children in their care.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 10:49 AM  

"Most above average IQ folks have a story about a time when they found themselves in awkward conflict with their teachers."

For me, this was a regular occurrence with teachers. Math teachers seem to be the most indignant about being told/shown that they're wrong. I've had everything from an 8th grade algebra teacher that didn't understand absolute values to a college classical mechanics professor that was unable to grasp a derivation that made use of the separation of variables technique, which was a key part of the course he was teaching.

Dealing with apathetic, mid-witted teachers is good practice for the real world though. Even the most intelligent of individuals are going to routinely find themselves in situations in which someone much less intelligent and informed is in a position of responsibility over them.

Anonymous Daniel December 19, 2012 10:50 AM  

corps, not core. But you knew that.

Blogger IM2L844 December 19, 2012 10:50 AM  

Maybe they should be paying us to be teachers, sort of like a vanity publishing house.

This raises an interesting question. Since it costs the government about $800/month/child for public education, should the government subsidize homeschoolers with some portion of that amount money they are saving them? Shaniqua in the hood could reach upper middle class status in no time.

Anonymous The other skeptic December 19, 2012 10:59 AM  

My high school geometry teacher smugly proclaimed, by way of a challenge, to the class that it was impossible to trisect an angle with just a compass and a straight edge. I proceeded to demonstrate to the class that he was wrong. He wasn't very appreciative of the learning experience and attempted to torment me for the remainder of my time in his class and beyond (He quit teaching and became a cop in my small home town).

While Wikipedia is often contentious, on purely technical subjects it is generally correct. It claims that while it has been proven that in general it is impossible to trisect an angle using a compass and a straightedge, that does not mean that specific angles, like a right angle, cannot be trisected with such tools

Anonymous Otherwise Silent Observer December 19, 2012 11:08 AM  

This idea has legs. With how difficult it is to enforce discipline in the modern classroom, maybe teachers should start using hired goons to rough up the more unruly students outside of school hours. Just imagine:

Teacher 1: "Poor Jamal was shuffling home from school and some guy smashed his legs with a crowbar! What is this world coming to?!"

Teacher 2: "Jamal... isn't he the one who grabbed the lesbian PE teacher's ass and then took a dump in the principal's filing cabinet?"

Teacher 1: "Uh, yes, I believe that was him."

Teacher 2: "Well ya know, it was probably just karma coming to collect. Do bad things, bad things happen to you!"

Blogger WATYF December 19, 2012 11:10 AM  

I'm all for homeschooling, and I'm a big fan of mocking the nonsense that goes on in public schools (here and around the world), but I don't understand why it would be "refreshing" to stop hearing about teachers who sacrificed themselves for their kids and switch to hearing about more nonsense happening in public schools elsewhere. If anything, those sacrifices are the only redeeming elements of the entire incident (and public schooling in general) and should be the primary aspect that the media focuses on (instead of giving so much press to the little shit that did the killing).

...unless I misunderstood you.

WATYF

Blogger IM2L844 December 19, 2012 11:15 AM  

@ The other skeptic

Yes. I should have mentioned that I offered him an "out" prior to the lesson by asking if he meant particular angles or any angle at all. That I did and he insisted that he meant any angle may have compounded his embarrassment. Still, there are many angles that can be precisely trisected and by continuing the process any angle can be trisected within a margin of error acceptable to any engineering project.

Anonymous Mina December 19, 2012 11:19 AM  

We had a strike here recently and most of the "Other Moms" were posting to the FB page all kinds of stuff about how the teachers work so hard "for our kids!!!" and deserve so much more than they get, how badly they all need 3% raises and cheering the teachers on over the pictures of themselves in the strike lines. "Thank You, Teachers!!!!"

Try to imagine the reception I got when I posted that I work in the private sector (not the Government), doing a pretty high end "rocket scientist type" job, make less $$ than many teachers, don't get summers off and haven't seen a raise in oh, probably 5 years. Not to mention how lucky I feel every payday that my company seems to be solid enough to keep the lights on and the payroll funded from month to month in this economy.

Closed up by saying "Please stop posting photos of yourselves picketing, I want to see posts about how you are working to get back to the bargaining table to get these kids back into school. And please do keep in mind how good you really have it with your Government guaranteed work and salaries - those of us in the private sector get no such guarantees or raises. Please - go back to work."

Step back. Observe the result. Mind blowing.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 11:19 AM  

"instead of giving so much press to the little shit that did the killing"

Assuming he did it, of course.

Anonymous RINO December 19, 2012 11:44 AM  

Assuming he did it, of course.

Do I dare ask who else did it?

Anonymous FUBAR Nation (Ben) December 19, 2012 11:45 AM  

OT: Piers Morgan engages in Bill O'reilly style debating:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FVQgLkbLjQ&feature=youtu.be

Gun Owners of America President Larry Pratt takes Piers Morgan down.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 11:48 AM  

"Do I dare ask who else did it?"

Only if you have an interest in the pursuit of knowledge and truth. You haven't shown much evidence of that so far, so my guess is that no, you do not dare. You simply accept what you are told.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan December 19, 2012 11:54 AM  

A teacher was feeling quite strapped,

When she learned she was gonna be scrapped,

She spewed out a sad story,

Then hired a Maori,

to have the principal knee capped.

Anonymous Azimus December 19, 2012 11:55 AM  

IM2L844 December 19, 2012 9:12 AM If only deranged rampage killers could be more discriminating...

EXACTLY! I had this exact conversation yesterday... why is it that people who have "I'm 37 year old who wears diapers and sleeps in a crib and eats from a bottle on disability" disorder never meet "I'm a homocidal-suicidal maniac bent on bloodshed"? Why is it that normal people always get the short end regardless? As a people we need to make this happen if our civilization is to survive...

Anonymous Azimus December 19, 2012 12:00 PM  

The Great Martini December 19, 2012 9:50 AM
The teachers who were killed apparently did their best to save their kids when they could have been looking out for themselves, and some of them even rushed the guy, unsuccessfully.


Credit where credit is due: if this is true, it's pretty freakin' brave.

But what is the source for this? Is there evidence?


Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 12:04 PM  

"But what is the source for this? Is there evidence?"

This is what I find so troubling about the reporting of this incident. Most of the initial reporting on this was way, way off. The only eyewitness account that I've read was of a woman who was hiding under a desk and saw the shooter's feet.

We are fed this account of a heroic teacher who defended her children with no plausible explanation as to how this story could have been obtained. The whole thing reeks of propaganda.

Anonymous The Gray Man December 19, 2012 12:04 PM  

I think Noah B. has surpassed Wheeler for the craziest Ilk member in one swift post.

Anonymous Mina December 19, 2012 12:06 PM  

"Gun Owners of America President Larry Pratt takes Piers Morgan down."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FVQgLkbLjQ&feature=youtu.be

This is Gold. Thank you.

Anonymous RINO December 19, 2012 12:07 PM  

Only if you have an interest in the pursuit of knowledge and truth. You haven't shown much evidence of that so far, so my guess is that no, you do not dare. You simply accept what you are told.

I already know you aren't interested in either of things because most paranoid and populist libertarians aren't, and that group also happens to be the most prolific generators of schlock the world has ever known. You're just interested in making up whatever story you want to justify your opinions. For example, this morning all the usual suspects (infowars, naturalnews, etc) were pushing a story that Adam Lanza was on an antipsychotic drug called Fanapt. It turns out this originated from an internet troll and was untrue. They are perfectly willing to peddle unverified nonsense as truth to their readers who are all too willing to uncritically accept it from their thought leaders. I guess now we're supposed to assume military operatives went into the school and shot everyone while dragging that kid's body in and dumping it.

Anonymous cheddarman December 19, 2012 12:14 PM  


the good news is this foolishness will end soon enough, when it becomes obvious that we can't continue to borrow insane amounts of money to pay for government we don't need and cant afford...i wonder what will replace it though.

Anonymous Mina December 19, 2012 12:19 PM  

"I guess now we're supposed to assume military operatives went into the school and shot everyone while dragging that kid's body in and dumping it."

This is what the conspiracy theorists are all over the Internet talking about the past couple of days.

What's really scary to think about is that anyone really thinks the Government would be able to pull something like that off.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 12:19 PM  

"I guess now we're supposed to assume military operatives went into the school and shot everyone while dragging that kid's body in and dumping it."

I never said anything of the kind, but I do find it interesting that you would speculate as to such a possibility, RINO.

Anonymous The Gray Man December 19, 2012 12:20 PM  

Noah, there is no reason for you to doubt the official story at this point. The reason you "never said anything of the kind" to RINO is because you have no evidence on which to base that--that doesn't usually stop people from the PrisonPlanet crowd from making stuff up, though.

Anonymous Mina December 19, 2012 12:21 PM  

"the good news is this foolishness will end soon enough, when it becomes obvious that we can't continue to borrow insane amounts of money to pay for government we don't need and cant afford...i wonder what will replace it though"

A military state would be my guess. There are a lot of indications that this is so if you include both current events and historical accounts of falling and fallen civilizations.

Anonymous VD December 19, 2012 12:21 PM  

I don't understand why it would be "refreshing" to stop hearing about teachers who sacrificed themselves for their kids

How did they sacrifice themselves for their kids?

Anonymous Rantor December 19, 2012 12:24 PM  

At Arizona State, Education Majors were only higher than Recreation Majors in intelect or respect. Even Fine Arts Majors had to compete to get into their programs (had to demonstrate talent).

When I was in High School I sat in on my mother's graduate-level classes for obtaining her librarian certificate. She wasn't having any trouble with the course work, but some in the program seemed to. Library science was part of the education college and there was nothing in the course work I couldn't have accomplished. It was enlightening.

Several of my High School teachers were incompetent, one it was later determined was a stoner who would toke up at lunch (union worker too). She was finally fired.

Some of my daughter's instructors were also less than capable. I especially remember talking to some math teachers at her school that didn't even understand the curriculum they were supposedly teaching. I am by no means a math genius, but it was easy enough to read the requirements of the curriculum and explain to them what they were doing wrong and they were incapable of understanding.

I tried to get the home school thing started, but my wife and daughter resisted. Fortunately, my daughter (now in college) has told me she plans on homeschooling her children. I hope she keeps to that.

Anonymous VD December 19, 2012 12:24 PM  

Noah, there is no reason for you to doubt the official story at this point.

Of course there is. Why was the "gunman" screaming to be let in? How were so many shots fired in such a short period of time? Who was arrested at the school? Why was his father reported killed? How did a supposedly avid gamer leave no social media trace behind?

There are many reasons to doubt that the official story is completely accurate, besides the obvious fact that it is the official story and therefore concealing something.

Anonymous Stingray December 19, 2012 12:25 PM  

Since the talk has turned to guns . . .

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 12:27 PM  

"Noah, there is no reason for you to doubt the official story at this point."

Sure there is. The story so far has largely come from corporate media and government sources, which my personal experience has shown are not generally credible. What logical reason is there to suddenly start believing sources that are known to lack credibility?

Anonymous ThinBlueLine December 19, 2012 12:28 PM  

attempted to torment me for the remainder of my time in his class and beyond (He quit teaching and became a cop in my small home town).


Ding Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!
Now he takes out his feelings on the public that foots the bill for his psych issues and his revenge mentality. He's there to "serve it up".
Perfect. He's looking for you, Tos.

Anonymous Capt. America December 19, 2012 12:36 PM  

Every time one of these events happen, I feel like I am being force fed the alternative version.

Planting seeds into the emotional minds of the sheeple through the chaos of confusion.

I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few. – Adolf Hitler

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 12:38 PM  

besides the obvious fact that it is the official story and therefore concealing something. VD

Sure there is. The story so far has largely come from corporate media and government sources Noah B

This is impossible to argue with for all the Govt/Media True Believers.
The desperate psychological NEED for the StatusQuo and the Authorities to be correct, and for one to BELIEVE they are telling you the truth out of their heart's benevolence, is still a DESPERATE PSYCHOLOGICAL NEED.

@RINO can't see that he/she/it is the very thing they claim to be against. Information outlets claim one thing and then it gets corrected as being "wrong" - you do not want to go there.
The MSM got wrong "facts" about this very instance RIGHT OFF THE BAT. Care to explain your continued belief in their _______ ?

Are you angry with the Govt and Media over all of their ever changing stories? Big stories. Very important "News" items.
Far more important than this one.

Your religious fundamentalism is showing.

Anonymous Capt. America December 19, 2012 12:39 PM  

http://youtu.be/6K5M0xtxQVQ

http://youtu.be/N4CT4boLPrU

Outrageous conspiracy theories.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard December 19, 2012 12:42 PM  

Noah, there is no reason for you to doubt the official story at this point.

Keep your head down. Do not question the official story. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

...I swear, the only thing keeping me from global conquest is that my minions are no more mentally competent than you are.

Anonymous The Gray Man December 19, 2012 12:45 PM  

Sometimes listening to the "disbelievers" is like watching liberal Democrats who believe they really do know the truth, too. There is almost no difference.

I am not saying the official story is 100% correct, but that the drive to say it is incorrect is coming from the wrong place.

A good rule of thumb: if Infowars supports it, it is a good idea not to believe it. They're already wrong on some things like this SSRI he was supposedly on and they'll be wrong on more things about this before it's all over with.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 12:47 PM  

How did they sacrifice themselves for their kids?

This.

They willingly chose to baby sit those children in an environment in which they COULD NOT protect their very lives. By LAW - Govt - they had no choice in the matter, and likely would not have been prepared to do so even were they free to be prepared and do so.
And the parents of these children believed that to be an acceptable "risk".
But how could it be a risk? It's a government gun free zone, and the teachers are all about the children!
Those children's lives are over because adults permitted them to be ended - and yet again, "parents" created the "beast" that killed them.
Directed focus. It's always amusing to observe.

Anonymous Stilicho December 19, 2012 12:48 PM  

This raises an interesting question. Since it costs the government about $800/month/child for public education, should the government subsidize homeschoolers with some portion of that amount money they are saving them? Shaniqua in the hood could reach upper middle class status in no time.


The existing subsidy creates more useless teachers. Bad enough. If you pay it directly to Shaniqua, it will create a lot more Shaniquas and Shaniqua Jr.'s.

Anonymous Mina December 19, 2012 12:48 PM  

I agree we can't take what the official MSM and Government agents say and believe it at face value.

However some of the conspiracy stuff is way, way out there. And IMO the Government doesn't have the brains to put together some of the stuff those folks are giving them credit for.

Anonymous RINO December 19, 2012 12:49 PM  

The MSM got wrong "facts" about this very instance RIGHT OFF THE BAT. Care to explain your continued belief in their _______ ?

People always cite this in support of their conspiracies. When has there ever been instant and perfect information with situations like this? If it's not perfect then it must be suspicious propaganda. But in reality a little common sense goes a long way.

Internet hoaxing + rumormongering + chaos/confusion + news outlets competing with eachother to break stories the quickest = cocktail of nonsense

You don't have to believe every little detail of the official story but now that this has settled for a few days we at least know confidently who the shooter was.

Anonymous Josh December 19, 2012 12:52 PM  

But you guys, LIBOR! LIBOR!

Anonymous Capt. America December 19, 2012 12:53 PM  

Internet hoaxing + rumormongering + chaos/confusion + news outlets competing with eachother to break stories the quickest = cocktail of nonsense

Predictive programming. Human nature.

Now that it is all settled, the official story is the final say.

Can we all cry now?

Anonymous RINO December 19, 2012 12:54 PM  

How did a supposedly avid gamer leave no social media trace behind?

Not that hard to believe with a sheltered existence, overprotective mother, and 0 friends. Is he going to make a facebook account to connect with those 0 friends? You can play single player content of games and even multiplayer for a lot of them without much of a social media presence.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard December 19, 2012 1:00 PM  

Can we all cry now?

You certainly have my permission to cry, Rogers.

Anonymous The Gray Man December 19, 2012 1:00 PM  

VD: How did a supposedly avid gamer leave no social media trace behind?

I work at a technology company where our social media "expert" does not have any social media accounts for personal use. I cannot find any trace of him online, yet he exists. I've worked fairly hard to be one of those people with little trace of me online, too.

Anonymous Stingray December 19, 2012 1:05 PM  

Since it costs the government about $800/month/child for public education, should the government subsidize homeschoolers with some portion of that amount money they are saving them?

There has been talk of this from HSLDA. They have even been gaining a modicum of traction with it. I think the idea is that homeschoolers wouldn't have to pay as much in school taxes or none at all. Many homeschoolers are completely against this idea because they know that the minute something like this happens the government will counter with more oversight into homeschoolers lives. They would rather pay the taxes.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 1:08 PM  

People always cite this in support of their conspiracies. When has there ever been instant and perfect information with situations like this? If it's not perfect then it must be suspicious propaganda. But in reality a little common sense goes a long way.

Just because your TrueBelief cannot be shaken doesn't mean your obvious contradictions shouldn't be pointed out.
The mainstream media always cite this in support of their conspiracies.
If Inforwars (I'm not a big fan personally) isn't perfect then it must be suspicious propaganda. You can lie to yourself, but not everyone else who sees it. You trust one over the other for psycho-spiritual reasons. You TRUST them. You WANT it to be true.
You're TrueBelief blinds you from seeing your blatant hypocrisy.
You would do better to make the case that nothing that this particular "Infowars" outlet says is true. Is that your contention?
Then weight that vs news stories from your trusted and beloved MSM reporting on Govt action/inaction and "facts".
But in reality, a little common sense - and disbelief - goes a long way.
The Desperate Psych need is all yours, despite your projections to the contrary. In the end, as the Queen of the Ilk likes to say, you are not tall enough for this ride.

Anonymous The Gray Man December 19, 2012 1:10 PM  

Hey BW

Just wanted to point out that you have TrueDisbelief (TM). Must be nice being "different". Maybe you should join the New Atheists in their Asperger's Club.

After all, your TrueDisbelief (TM) is keeping you from seeing that what you hear is not always false.

Your TrueDisbelief (TM) is forcing you to doubt everything.

TrueDisbelief (TM), the way of the social reject and politically inept.

Blogger JohnG December 19, 2012 1:13 PM  

"...Teachers are wildly overpaid..." ~Vox

Too broad. California yes, Arizona no. A teacher with a Masters degree in AZ started at $32k. I suspect the pay is lower in Right to Work states in general, and AZ could just be screwing it's teachers over (my high school calculus teacher in Cali was making $40K in 1984). They've not had a pay raise in Arizona in five years (the bureaucrats and administrators have though). I will give you, based on my wife's daily "band camp" stories about the school where she works, the dedicated and hard working teachers might be around 50%.

Anonymous Cinco December 19, 2012 1:17 PM  

There has been so much unverified reporting on this situation; it really makes me happy to see the MSM devolve into a gaggle of Twitter one-uppers. The only difference between now and 10 years ago is that now, their incompetence is revealed in real time, and Americans will remember it.

I mean just think of the poor reporting on this:
1. Wrong brother... Oops! (looking forward to that lawsuit)
2. Second gunman arrested...
3. Pistol used, nope rifle...
4. Mother works at the school...
5. Girlfriend is missing...
6. Father is dead too at another location...
7. Shooter was killed, nope shot himself...


Anonymous Cinco December 19, 2012 1:19 PM  

So, it's *probably* not a Conspiracy as much as them trying to remain relevant.

Anonymous Major America December 19, 2012 1:21 PM  

It's like dial emergency 911 all over again.

And again.

And.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 1:22 PM  

A good rule of thumb: if Infowars supports it, it is a good idea not to believe it. - The Gray Man

I am uncertain of what you mean by "supports it". Do you mean asserts it? Claims it? Pushes it as fact or true? Is nothing AJ (again, I'm not a fan, but not for the same reasons you are not) says true? Does he report and emphasize any historical facts that the MSM do not? Facts that have determined the direction of a civilization?

Also, considering the "conspiracy theory" doubts that persist in the mind of this Blog owner concerning various things: Lusitania propaganda for WWI, Gulf of Tonkin propaganda for Vietnam, doubting the official OkBomb story, etc (all reported in mainstream outlets) - .. WHY DO YOU DE-EMPHASIZE THESE CONSPIRACY THEORIES on his part and continue to come here, noting that he is so _______ . Certainly he is unhistorical, stupid, and most importantly for you....mentally unstable.

Yet, here you are. And here you will be again. Until you are not.

Anonymous Missus Major America December 19, 2012 1:25 PM  

Ya'know, we should all just go shopping.

Anonymous DrTorch December 19, 2012 1:28 PM  

A teacher with a Masters degree in AZ started at $32k.

Don't know what the degree has to do w/ anything. Tired of seeing credentialism being used as an excuse for more pay.

Good comments:

Mina- Don't have to imagine response. Kudos to you for integrity and courage.


Ryan- Nice poetry.

Stingray- I believe the right thing is for homeschoolers to write off education expenses, at least from local taxes. Gov't intrusion is a reasonable, practical concern about that. Although the irony is the gov't is going to get more involved when they less financial stake. I've observed that the worse the public schools, the more intrusion the state has w/ homeschoolers.

Rantor- Sun Devils rule baby! Back in the day ASU had some of the most gorgeous co-eds. That had gone way downhill last time I visited.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 1:30 PM  

"Internet hoaxing + rumormongering + chaos/confusion + news outlets competing with eachother to break stories the quickest = cocktail of nonsense"

Exactly, RINO. The stories coming from the media are a cocktail of nonsense. Who in their right mind would choose to believe something they know to be a cocktail of nonsense?

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 1:32 PM  

TrueDisbelief (TM), the way of the social reject and politically inept.

You know, I've always wanted to TM that, but I've seen others do it in that sophisticated, cool way that I don't know how to do. Apparently, you do not either. I'll Pass.

TrueBelief : the way of the desperate need to be accepted so I can feel like somebody and desperate hope and change belief that the political process in the US is actually legitimate, you know, so I can be a collective part of something important

Must be nice being "different"

You think you a temptation that I'm blind to, yet I'm the one consistently pointing out those very temptations. Too short for the ride.

your TrueDisbelief (TM) is keeping you from seeing that what you hear is not always false.

You are a Liar and making BullShit up to make yourself feel better. I tend to believe the MSM when they finally are taken to task for lying and being wrong and are forced to get the story a little more correct.
Of course, I could just simply point out you are projecting. Are you so desperate as to actually claim I believe NOTHING reported by...say....CNN or FOX news?

By the way: You are a TrueBeliever. Does that make you feel more secure?

FAIL. Try again.

Anonymous RINO December 19, 2012 1:34 PM  

Exactly, RINO. The stories coming from the media are a cocktail of nonsense. Who in their right mind would choose to believe something they know to be a cocktail of nonsense?

It is a cocktail of nonsense ... early on. That's why friday was a freakshow. As time goes on clarity begins to form.

Anonymous Moody Blues December 19, 2012 1:34 PM  

Sandy Hook mind-blower: Newtown shooting victim's father, Robbie Parker, is seen laughing just before his on-camera interview, as he inquires about whether or not he should just 'read the card.'

http://youtu.be/urrRcgB581w

Getting into that... mood.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 1:35 PM  

Ya'know, we should all just go shopping.

Head Morman Prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints??
Is that you??

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 1:36 PM  

"As time goes on clarity begins to form."

Once that's possible, most of the media are long gone.

Anonymous Susan December 19, 2012 1:38 PM  

David Letterman quoted a statistic about the Brady Bill passed in 1993. He says that there have been 70 incidents since that bill passed.

Sarah Brady should be sooo proud to have contributed to the target practice opportunities for the crazy loons in this country./s

I don't know where his staff got that info, but if its true, it is a sad example of libs and their 'good' intentions.

Ever since he had that crazy stalker woman in his life, I guess he has moderated his tone just a bit on the subject of security.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 1:38 PM  

It is a cocktail of nonsense ... early on. That's why friday was a freakshow. As time goes on clarity begins to form.

The reports about what specific drug the shooter may/may not have been on is a cocktail of nonsense ... early on. That's why (today's) alternative news outlet show was a freakshow. As time goes on clarity begins to form.

Next.

Anonymous RINO December 19, 2012 1:40 PM  

The reports about what specific drug the shooter may/may not have been on is a cocktail of nonsense ... early on. That's why (today's) alternative news outlet show was a freakshow. As time goes on clarity begins to form.

5 days later the alternative news is still a freakshow. Everyone has a decent idea what happened now except them.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 1:43 PM  

"5 days later the alternative news is still a freakshow. Everyone has a decent idea what happened now except them."

OK, so why was the brother arrested and handcuffed when there were dozens of eyewitnesses who knew he couldn't have done it?

Anonymous Lt. Col. America December 19, 2012 1:44 PM  

As time goes on clarity begins to form.

Of course. Order... out of chaos. You are seeing what they want you to see.

I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It's gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright) Sun-Shiny day.


Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 1:44 PM  

Sarah Brady should be sooo proud to have contributed to the target practice opportunities for the crazy loons in this country./s

Indeed. Of course, Americans need to be familiar with facts and history if we're going to be presented with propaganda (not aiming this at you Susan).

RONALD REAGAN WAS SHOT WITH A .22 CALIBER HANDGUN (quite common for "assassins" for obvious reasons). What does that have to do with banning black assault rifles and the like?
The first words out of the confiscators' mouths were not "need to ban .22 revolvers". The MSM held them to task over this fact though, you can bet. STILL DO.

The Green Man and RINO should be able to explain it to us all however.

Anonymous jack December 19, 2012 1:45 PM  

This is horribly OT; but I just had to share.

A few days ago I was traveling north from Montgomery, AL and stopped at the Loves truck stop. In the mens room, taking a leak I noticed that the little rubber mats they put in the urinals, everyone of them, had written on them 12.21.12. So you had no choice but to piss on that date.

Last evening. During one of those 2012 end of the world shows; I think it was Nat Geo. A commercial comes on. It starts talking about how the Maya sacrificed to keep these end of the calendar dates from causing too much grief. Cuts to a scene of a group of people lugging a huge crate up one of those very steep Mayan pyramid temples. It talks about how we [modern folk] wanted to make a sacrifice to the Mayan gods for mercy. They get to the top where the sacrifices are made, open the crate and its full of Jello puddings. I almost craped my pants laughing so hard. It was clever and well done.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 1:45 PM  

Lt. Col. America

Ha! I just "saw" what you're doing right there.

+1

Blogger A December 19, 2012 1:46 PM  

[b]Don't know what the degree has to do w/ anything. Tired of seeing credentialism being used as an excuse for more pay.[/b]

I think he meant Masters degree, as in, a Bachelors + Masters degree's in school DEBT negating any supposed financial boon a teacher supposedly makes. Teachers may have high salary caps in comparison to the average, but the low starting salary, in addition to how long it takes for the salary to increase to the highest cap, basically means loan indebted (and don't forget a wedding, mortgage, cars, kids, taxes, etc) teachers are not swimming in wealth.

I used to think teachers made a lot of money and didn't have to work very hard, and as a greedy youth I enrolled in education for an easy life, long vacations, good pay, etc. The reality is that teaching pays poorly (why else all the glitter of the retirement pensions?), is extremely competitive and thus nearly impossible to get a job, and obliterates any possibility of moving until retirement (you can't just swap to a different school if you're tired of working in a shitty city school).

Anonymous RINO December 19, 2012 1:55 PM  

OK, so why was the brother arrested and handcuffed when there were dozens of eyewitnesses who knew he couldn't have done it?

How did they know he wasn't involved? It wasn't like they had perfect information either.

Blogger James Dixon December 19, 2012 1:57 PM  

> A teacher with a Masters degree in AZ started at $32k.

Started. Though http://www.teacherportal.com/salary/Arizona-teacher-salary says $36,880. Do you know what the average starting salary is in Arizona, since you want to claim it's so low? I couldn't find that information with a quick web search.

However, I did find this at http://www.teacher-world.com/teacher-salary/arizona.html

"The National Education Association reported that Arizona teacher salaries were $46,952, over 11 percent higher than salaries for the education sector as a whole, and almost 15 percent higher than the overall mean wage in Arizona."

And I confirmed at http://phoenix.about.com/cs/living/a/medianinc01.htm that the average household income (household, not individual) in Arizona is $47,750. Which seems to back up what they're saying.

People can argue all they want that teachers are underpaid. The facts say otherwise.

Anonymous DrTorch December 19, 2012 1:59 PM  

How did they know he wasn't involved? It wasn't like they had perfect information either.

Huh, what?

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 2:02 PM  

5 days later the alternative news is still a freakshow. Everyone has a decent idea what happened now except them.

40+ years later, the MSM is still a freakshow, still failing to report on the nightly news that Tonkin Gulf was a LIE and used as Propaganda over which 55000 US men lost their lives under false pretenses. Everyone who doesn't follow the MSM already knows this however and has a decent idea what it was all about then and what it is all about now - excluding those TrueBelievers who follow the MSM.

Next.

@ RINO

Alex Jones (specifically in this case) emphasizes the work and books of CAROL QUIGLEY.
Have you ever heard your MSM do so, and do you believe that to be an important point of emphasis or lack thereof? (you know, since POTUS Clinton gave the public nod to Quigley on national television - by the way, do you consider THAT to be of any relevance?).

Cinco has pointed out where MSM has been wrong/lied.
Can you TB's explain why you believe in them still, and why you TrulyBelieve the case is settled at this point, and that all that is now known and "reported" will be all that will ever be known and revealed?



Anonymous scoobius dubious December 19, 2012 2:02 PM  

In cases like this I assume the MSM is either unreliable, occluding or lying on all but the most basic facts, but there are a handful of basic facts which even they probably aren't lying about, or more likely simply can't lie about.

But usually, that handful of facts is useful to construct a model of probability which makes certain of the more outre scenarios unlikely. Granted in this day and age, and given the perversity of the Left (or the Cathedral or whatever you want to call this monstrosity), anything is possible; but a lot of things are improbable. So I tend to reason from probability. Life is too short to fact-check the lying MSM, I see no other reasonable way to get through the day other than likelihood.

If we assume this handful of facts is true (and maybe they aren't, but I have to assume SOMEthing):
1. Adam Lanza was 20 years old, lived with his mother, and had little social contact;
2. His mother owned guns, and taught him how to use them;
3. His mother was found dead in her home, shot in the face with her own guns;
4. People had been saying for a long time before this incident that Adam Lanza seemed disturbed;
5. Both he and his mother had connections to this school; and
6. He is now dead, and his body was found at the crime scene.

Given these facts (and maybe they're wrong, who knows?) doesn't it seem unlikely that an invisible psyops organization picked this kid out in advance, groomed him to look like a mass murderer, planned a mass-murder on public grounds conducted by themselves and requiring a fool-proof, witness proof execution and escape; lured the unstable and thus unreliable Adam Lanza to come to the school at the exact time their own massacre was planned; killed 26 people but left survivors, then killed Adam Lanza too, and exited the building without incident. How large a team would it take to pull that off? If the MSM is consciously complicit, then take your figure and quadruple it. That's a lot of people to keep a heinous secret.

Or is it more likely that a deranged young man who hated his mother, knew about guns, and knew about the infamy associated with school massacres, shot his own mother, then took her guns, and perpetrated an infamous school massacre at a school full of meaning for both him and his hated mother?

My basic assumption is that in cases like these, I will never, ever know the complete truth. I only know which thing I'd bet on at Caesar's.

Blogger James Dixon December 19, 2012 2:02 PM  

> I think he meant Masters degree, as in, a Bachelors + Masters degree's in school DEBT negating any supposed financial boon a teacher supposedly makes.

Which ignores the debt forgiveness programs many states offer.

> The reality is that teaching pays poorly...

The reality is nothing of the kind. You may not get rich as a teacher, but then you won't at most other jobs either.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 2:03 PM  

How did they know he wasn't involved? It wasn't like they had perfect information either.

How did the Alternative information outlets know he wasn't on that specific drug? It wasn't like they had perfect information either.

Next.

Anonymous Stilicho December 19, 2012 2:05 PM  

How did they know he wasn't involved? It wasn't like they had perfect information either.

Wrong question. "What gave them probable cause to believe the brother was involved?" is the correct question. Otherwise, how did they know that any number of other people, like RINO for instance, were not involved? It's a distinction with a difference. And consequences.

Anonymous Lt. Col. America December 19, 2012 2:05 PM  

How did they know he wasn't involved?

How did they know you weren't involved?

See?

Muddy the waters. Arrange pebbles. Strain and filtrate it. See the pebbles?

Anonymous Jack Amok December 19, 2012 2:06 PM  

but degrees still enforce a pecking order in job promotions. Diplomas would do the same for God knows how long, even homeschoolers have to have some document that proves they learned anything.

For how much longer? Diplomas, degress, and other credentials are only valuable under two conditions:

1) the credentialing agency has a demonstrated positive track record in screening out incompetents and only credentialling those who meet a respectable quality bar.

or

2) the credential grants membership in an "old boys club" (when includes women these days) that controls the hiring process.


Both conditions were true some time ago, but the first one has fallen away completely for High School diplomas, and college degrees are close behind too. The institutions handing out degrees and diplomas are incompetent and do not see their mission as evaluating graduates.

The second condition still holds, but the Old Boys are running all the institutions they control into the ground rather rapidly, helped along of course by their clubby atmosphere and the midwits they hire. The society they preside over is unsustainable (because they provide crappy leadership), so something else will take it's place sooner or later, and the new hierarchy is unlikely to respect the credentials of the old.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 2:06 PM  

"How did they know he wasn't involved? It wasn't like they had perfect information either."

So you're not a big fan of the 4th amendment either.

Anonymous Stilicho December 19, 2012 2:10 PM  


So you're not a big fan of the 4th amendment either.


Apparently, he's not worried because he's got nothing to hide...

Anonymous Loki of Asgard December 19, 2012 2:15 PM  

Lt. Col. America

It looks as though I'm not the only one to indulge in shameless self-promotion.

Anonymous JartStar December 19, 2012 2:19 PM  

@scoobius dubious

It will never be enough for the conspiracy crowd. I must admit the conspiracy angle is fun, but it doesn't get one anywhere because if this was a perfectly run psyops opperation or a madman with guns, the call to ban assualt weapons still happens.

Anonymous Lt. Col. America December 19, 2012 2:21 PM  

It looks as though I'm not the only one to indulge in shameless self-promotion.

Me?

http://tinyurl.com/a25jsel

Anonymous JartStar December 19, 2012 2:30 PM  

I'd love to see the conspiracy crowd apply the same level of scurtiny and belief of the ever present hidden intentions to the New Testament acccount of Jesus.

Jesus and Paul were actually tools of the pagan, Roman government! Jesus told people to pay their taxes and Paul told people to submit to the athorities. Besides, Mary had sextuplets which explains why Jesus could be all over the place after the Ressurection and only one of them was actually cruicified. And who believes the "official story" about the Roman centurions, they obviously let the body of the third sibling be lifted out by the Roman secret police.

The Roman senate knew that to make the Empire really cohesive they needed a state managed, and run religion with an authoritarian foundation right from God. So they hatched this plan and ran with it for centuries until it finally came to fuition in Constatine. Julian refused to follow the Roman illuminati and was disposed of...

Anonymous Col. America December 19, 2012 2:31 PM  

...if this was a perfectly run psyops opperation or a madman with guns, the call to ban assualt weapons still happens.

Actually, this is a Chinese/Russian psyops job. See, they want to disarm Americans so they can just roll right over us!

http://thedailybell.com/28470/Why-the-Chinese-Demand-US-Gun-Control

http://www.activistpost.com/2012/12/agenda-driven-news.html

http://youtu.be/qAl8MtdocR4

Muddy.

Blogger ajw308 December 19, 2012 2:33 PM  

So it seems that randomly arming teachers would yield teachers as qualified and skilled as your average cop (who the teachers seem to depend on for safety).

There's two points that seem to be missed by everyone:
1) Only those teachers who are favorable towards guns would carry them in school. These are the teachers who know how to shoot already and wish they could carry while at work. Those who don't shoot, the ones we don't want carrying guns, wouldn't.
2) The knowledge that 'teachers are armed' would deter many shooters. There would be schools where no teacher carried, but the possibility would be out there, deterring criminals.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard December 19, 2012 2:34 PM  

Jesus and Paul were actually tools of the pagan, Roman government! Jesus told people to pay their taxes and Paul told people to submit to the athorities. Besides, Mary had sextuplets which explains why Jesus could be all over the place after the Ressurection and only one of them was actually cruicified. And who believes the "official story" about the Roman centurions, they obviously let the body of the third sibling be lifted out by the Roman secret police.

I see the little additive I put into the water supply is working as intended. Splendid.

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother December 19, 2012 2:34 PM  

Morgan v Pratt

Wow, what a douche. Does Piers have a vagina hidden about him somewhere? Cool, calm and collected vs hysterical. Quite the alpha. Note Pratt's skillful use of emotion and rhetoric to counter the rabbit person's insults and hysterics. Pratt also never apologized for anything to Morgan but went on the attack constantly.

Vox, I think this video could serve as a basis for a post from you on rabbit people.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 2:35 PM  

It will never be enough for the conspiracy crowd.

What exactly is the "conspiracy crowd" again?

I must admit the conspiracy angle is fun,

What a strange thing to say.

Anonymous Col. America December 19, 2012 2:40 PM  

Confused.

Order these events from most probable to the least probable.
a) the first baby born next year is a girl.
b) the sun will set today
c) you will live to be 100 years old.
d) a classmate will live to 90 years
e) a class mate will live to 90 years

Anonymous Stilicho December 19, 2012 2:43 PM  

Jesus and Paul were actually tools of the pagan, Roman government! Jesus told people to pay their taxes and Paul told people to submit to the athorities. Besides, Mary had sextuplets which explains why Jesus could be all over the place after the Ressurection and only one of them was actually cruicified.

Someone's been watching the History Channel. My favorite is the wild-eyed Greek stoner whose answer to everything is "aliens did it!"

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 2:44 PM  

There's two points that seem to be missed by everyone:
1) Only those teachers who are favorable towards guns would carry them in school.
ajw308

Incorrect. I already covered that.

and likely would not have been prepared to do so even were they free to be prepared and do so. bw 12 47 pm

Anonymous Lcpl America December 19, 2012 2:46 PM  

Lt. Col. America

It looks as though I'm not the only one to indulge in shameless self-promotion.

Yet I am still doing all of the bloody work.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 2:48 PM  

Morgan v Pratt
Wow, what a douche.


Did you see that p*ssy get owned by that chick on Twitter the other day? If you didn't, it would be worth your time to find it. Intellectually and psych owned. Damn that was hilarious. As VD notes, these peeps are not very smart.

Anonymous RINO December 19, 2012 2:48 PM  

So you're not a big fan of the 4th amendment either.

He was implying that Ryan Lanza shouldn't have been questioned based on the fact the eyewitnesses "knew he couldn't have done it". But they had no way of knowing Ryan wasn't involved in any way at that point. The authorities knew he was the brother of the shooter and found an identification belonging to him at the scene which provided the possibility that he was involved, even if not directly.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 2:50 PM  

Yet I am still doing all of the bloody work. Lcpl America

Nice.

"..is it any less so for the common man who bleeds on the battlefield..?" (para) - Braveheart

Blogger ajw308 December 19, 2012 2:53 PM  

Sorry bw.

But my point was that the knowledge that there are some capable people carrying in schools would be a protective umbrella that would cover all schools.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 2:56 PM  

Someone's been watching the History Channel. My favorite is the wild-eyed Greek stoner whose answer to everything is "aliens did it!" Stilicho

These nut job History channel watching, authoritarian TB's.
They're THIS FUCKING CLOSE to cutting of their ear - or shooting a bunch of blond little girls.
Better arm yourself.

Anonymous Stilicho December 19, 2012 2:57 PM  

He was implying that Ryan Lanza shouldn't have been questioned based on the fact the eyewitnesses "knew he couldn't have done it". But they had no way of knowing Ryan wasn't involved in any way at that point. The authorities knew he was the brother of the shooter and found an identification belonging to him at the scene which provided the possibility that he was involved, even if not directly.

You previously said arrested, not questioned. Another distinction with a difference.

Anonymous Col. America December 19, 2012 2:58 PM  

Yet I am still doing all of the bloody work.

http://tinyurl.com/aw5bkvm

Anonymous The Gray Man December 19, 2012 3:05 PM  

BW, you haven't said a single thing I haven't heard before from countless Alex Jones supporters.

You are a living example of the close-minded, inept, idiotic fool that blindly follows a man who claims to be "different".

You are exactly what you claim everyone else to be. That doesn't mean you're wrong, it just means you're a hypocrite.

Anonymous RINO December 19, 2012 3:07 PM  

What exactly is the point of this line of discussion ... the original question was wrong. 1) Eyewitnesses did not know Ryan Lanza had no involvement whatsoever and 2) Apparently Ryan submitted to questioning voluntarily and wasn't even arrested.

Anonymous CaptDMO December 19, 2012 3:08 PM  

So, since the first time when "It's for the children..." was ever uttered, how many mass killings
occured in areas with an assumption of being "Gun Safe"?

The incedent of highest school children fatalities was committed using what means?
By whom?

Rambunctious (precotious)young lads, ahead of the curve in class, are sometimes MANDATED mind altering drugs to participate in MANDATORY attendance. Such drugs are deemed prima facie "mental problems", such that the military excludes them. The same drugs are given to SOME pre/post (if any)active, disparately male service folk.

I wonder if my pal Joe's "commission" will now find that males, forced by schools, or from the military, to take drugs are to be BANNED from firearms possession, as part of the whole impending "mental health" exploration.

Didn't NAZI's have some sort of "mental" proficiancy program to be "included"? Didn't they immediately jump on a "public disaster" (falsely blamed on a "mental deficent")as a call to knee-jerk action? Was there a special program to ensure that school children were protected from "other than the state" in their "education"?

Beginning four years ago, count how many times the words National, Labor, Socialist(progressive if you must), and Party, disingenuously come up in propaganda of (so called)Democratic leadership.
See which "news sources" BLINDLY repeat it most often, and chide/omit fact based critics.
(BTW, Goodwin is an ass.)
"Projectionists" are inter-National Organized(party?)of Union Labor folk too.

Anonymous CaptDMO December 19, 2012 3:11 PM  

poop-
precocious

Anonymous Col. America December 19, 2012 3:16 PM  

What exactly is the point of this line of discussion ... the original question was wrong. 1) Eyewitnesses did not know Ryan Lanza had no involvement whatsoever and 2) Apparently Ryan submitted to questioning voluntarily and wasn't even arrested.

Still muddy. Can't see the pebbles. You're not very good at this.

Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

Anonymous Loki of Asgard December 19, 2012 3:20 PM  

Yet I am still doing all of the bloody work.

Someone has to do it while the rest of us are busy.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 3:20 PM  

Apparently Ryan submitted to questioning voluntarily and wasn't even arrested.

Really?

You people sure have a strange definition of "voluntary."





Anonymous Stilicho December 19, 2012 3:22 PM  

I wonder if my pal Joe's "commission" will now find that males, forced by schools, or from the military, to take drugs are to be BANNED from firearms possession, as part of the whole impending "mental health" exploration.

Via the usual incrementalism, various classes of people will be deemed to be per se mental health risks and barred from owning any firearms: veterans, divorced/divorcing men, any male previously classified as hyperactive and/or given a drug to combat hyperactivity, conservatives (see, e.g. current attempts to call conservatism a mental disorder), homeschoolers (natch), Christian denominations that do not subscribe to homosexuality, gay marriage, female pastors, etc., members of organizations such as NRA, GOA, etc., well, you get the idea...just ban guns for those with "mental disorders" then expand the definition of "mental disorder" to include political enemies or anyone you do not like. It very easy to do, just start with a definition of mental disorder that few if any will disagree with and keep expanding it a little here, a little there, under the radar, until you reach your destination.

Anonymous Stilicho December 19, 2012 3:27 PM  

Apparently Ryan submitted to questioning voluntarily and wasn't even arrested.

Really?

You people sure have a strange definition of "voluntary."


Hmmm, that's gotta sting a bit. Now it looks like RINO was correct when he originally said "arrested" and was trying to move the goal post to "questioned".

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 3:29 PM  

Sorry bw.
But my point was


No problem my friend, I've gleaned much from your comments through the years (cue Kenny Rogers), but your point was that people "don't get the important points being missed". That was and is incorrect.
That particular profession employs human beings who believe in theSystem by definition - and the parents who hand off their children to said system believe in it as well.
They believe said system is safe and secure and for the children.

These adults are derelict in their human duty to protect (relatively) innocent lives. Govt laws? Check. Prussian school workers? Check. Parents of the children? Check. Parents of the "killer"? Check.

Adults. Who believe lies. Tell me my friend, exactly how human are they?



Anonymous RedJack December 19, 2012 3:30 PM  

Gray Man,
So are you.

Both of you are different sides of the same coin.

Blogger JohnG December 19, 2012 3:32 PM  

> A teacher with a Masters degree in AZ started at $32k.

Started. Though http://www.teacherportal.com/salary/Arizona-teacher-salary says $36,880. Do you know what the average starting salary is in Arizona, since you want to claim it's so low? I couldn't find that information with a quick web search. -James Dixon

You could maybe post a site that actually lists something factual. http://www.tusd1.org/contents/employment/certpay.html

"Salaries The salary schedule for the 2011-2012 school year is effective July 1 with a starting salary of $33,948.80 (includes a base salary of $31,727.85 and a supplemental amount for classroom site funding, contingent upon funding from the State of Arizona)."

The other comment about Master's degrees and credentialism. I'm with you. Its the way the entire government works in hiring, doesn't matter if you've got a masters in tofu culture, it's a masters, and better then a bachelors in *anything*. Which is why I'm about to finish my masters. Then I'll be shopping for a doctorate, hopefully in tofu culturing (because that would be easy), but at least I'll be able to walk in at the top of a pay scale. Government bureaucrats really haven't the foggiest notion of whether somebody is qualified to do a job, especially the HR people working at a GS 5 - 7 grade (ie, somebody's wife that can type).

Anonymous Be My Little General General America December 19, 2012 3:33 PM  

Meanwhile

Just messing with your heads.

Have a nice day.

Anonymous The Gray Man December 19, 2012 3:39 PM  

Wrong, RedJack.

I am not blindly accepting anything:

A) I don't really care if it was a conspiracy or not, it makes no difference to the overall agenda of Obama and other gun control nuts.

B) I have not claimed that everyone should blindly accept anything, only that I did not believe there was any sufficient reason to disbelieve the original story at this point.

After reading everything in this thread, I still stand by that. Who cares, anyway? What difference does it make? Absolutely none. Even if it was a conspiracy it is not going to be believed by the masses (as you, BW, and many others in this thread claim) so it doesn't matter one single bit.

Anonymous Athor Pel December 19, 2012 3:41 PM  

This argument is hilarious. Here's my version.
____________________


Your too paranoid.

No I'm not.

Yes you are.

No I'm not. I've been lied to too many times. I'm fed up.

They don't always lie. You're still too paranoid.

Yes, they always lie when it suits their purpose, even if they think they're telling the truth they are still lying.

No they don't.

Yes they do.

How do you know?

Because they lied in the past to suit their purposes. It was proven that they lied.

Aww, that stuff? That's old. They don't do that anymore.

Yes they do. The powers that be conspire to withhold or lie about events in order to control how we react to it and they do it all the time.

They can't do that. They're too inept to pull it off.

The allies kept the true D-Day invasion time and place secret from the Germans in WWII, and that involved millions of individuals over the span of months. I think they can manage to control the information coming out of one elementary school for as long as they damn well please.

Anonymous Spatial Anomaly December 19, 2012 3:43 PM  

There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your television set. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The Outer Limits

Anonymous The Gray Man December 19, 2012 3:46 PM  

Spatial Anomaly: Nutjobs stick together and recite the same stuff over and over. It's really like a cult of mental misfits.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 3:47 PM  

@Gray Man

The difference it makes is that you are assigning a far greater level of trust and credibility to the media than they deserve. They need the public to believe they are credible to push their agenda of the day -- TARP, Obamacare, more gun control, whatever.

I am not pushing some baseless conspiracy theory, however much I may be tempted to by Jamie Foxx's confession that he wanted to "kill all the white people." But I do think it's important that we not put more trust in the media than they have earned, which at this point is damned little.

Anonymous RINO December 19, 2012 3:48 PM  

Hmmm, that's gotta sting a bit. Now it looks like RINO was correct when he originally said "arrested" and was trying to move the goal post to "questioned".

I don't recall ever saying "arrested" anywhere.

As to the video, it doesn't refute anything. Someone can be handcuffed and not under arrest. Someone can be handcuffed while accepting questioning voluntarily for precautionary measure.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 3:50 PM  

@ The Gray Man

(tired of copying and pasting)

I already noted that I am not a big fan of Alex Jones and could not be considered a "supporter". You are delusional and projecting. I've never given one dime to that organization. I have nailed him to the wall in a few emails though.
Did you note that I mentioned I was not a fan much earlier in this thread? Can you read?
Why are you projecting on to me something that doesn't exist. You are mentally unstable.
Why are you ignorantly and emotionally putting me in group you've created in your mind, sans evidence, that simply makes your ignorant, deranged, lazy TrueBeliever ass feel better?

I've asserted that there is indeed Truth presented on Alternative News sites. You, being a Lying TrueBeliever fringe lunatic, have not even engaged that particular subject or question. Care to do so?

@The Gray Man: Is there no Truth whatsoever presented on the Alex Jones show? If there is, is it different than what your MSM reports - or is it even reported by your MSM whatsoever, with any kind of emphasis on the possible results/production of said subject matter? That is a direct question. I expect a direct response according to the rules of the blog.

Is it an important point of emphasis for someone in media to point to Carol Quigley? I've already asked that question. You have failed to answer it. Very simple question - especially in light of current events and what the WallStreetJournal is now all but admitting to (among others - CNBCBS, etc).
I would note that this blog covered said topic many years ago now, and continues to do so every day.
You are too stupid to even interpret properly what you are reading and what the more logical conclusion is - other than what your Authorities have trained you, in your desperate psychological need for affirmation, to believe.





Blogger JohnG December 19, 2012 3:51 PM  

And that being the 'median wage' thing is a little skewed. A huge percentage of the population in AZ is military or military defense contractor. If one isn't either of those, they're probably working at McDonalds or an illegal. If $32k seems high, look at the median value of a house in Phoenix or Tucson (even with the slump) - I frankly don't know how any teacher can live on that salary (here) unless they're married to somebody else that is employed.

Anonymous Spatial Anomaly December 19, 2012 3:53 PM  

The Gray Man: The TeeVee man says, "It is okay. It is okay. It is okay. It is okay."

And so it becomes to millions.

Remember where we were? Here we are. Imagine where we will be?

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 4:05 PM  

Who cares, anyway? What difference does it make? Absolutely none. Even if it was a conspiracy it is not going to be believed by the masses (as you, BW, and many others in this thread claim) so it doesn't matter one single bit.

Again, you are an ignorant Liar - and are also practicing a fighting retreat. Not going to happen, without you being seen for what you are.
No where in this thread have I even alluded to "a conspiracy theory" regarding a school shooting in CT. I haven't even adressed that subject specifically anywhere. Period.
Again, you are projecting, lumping me in with the delusional fantasies you have in your head about "who the crazy true enemies" are.

Direct queston: why did you claim that I have claimed there is a "conspiracy" involved with the CT shooting? You are lying and making shit up. You lumped me in with said suggestion: Even if it was a conspiracy it is not going to be believed by the masses (as you, BW, and many others in this thread claim)

Direct Question: Why are you a Liar?

You can't even hear what someone is talking about because you are defending you own failed ego, creating straw men and planting thoughts, ideas and words in other peoples mouths, then arguing with them.

How many ears do you have? By the way, it is a small bw, not CAPS - I'm a humble man.



Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 4:06 PM  

What difference does it make? The Green Man

Is that some kind of hamster appeal to your ignorance?

It makes all the fucking diffence in the world, there, crazy.

Anonymous Stilicho December 19, 2012 4:11 PM  

I don't recall ever saying "arrested" anywhere.

In response to this:
OK, so why was the brother arrested and handcuffed when there were dozens of eyewitnesses who knew he couldn't have done it?

at 1:55 you said this:

How did they know he wasn't involved? It wasn't like they had perfect information either.

That is an unequivocal attempt to excuse the brother's arrest. Then, at 3:07, you said:

Apparently Ryan submitted to questioning voluntarily and wasn't even arrested.

Which sure looks like a change from your earlier position. Of course, the video linked above put paid to that line of thought. If you have a different position from what's shown here, post it and clarify the matter.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 4:16 PM  

Nutjobs stick together and recite the same stuff over and over. It's really like a cult of mental misfits. The Gray Man

TrueGubmint and MSMBeliever (tm) nutjobs stick together and recite the same stuff over and over. It's really like a cult of mental misfits.

More projection. Nothing of substance yet.
Next.



Anonymous The Gray Man December 19, 2012 4:20 PM  

BW: Is there no Truth whatsoever presented on the Alex Jones show? If there is, is it different than what your MSM reports - or is it even reported by your MSM whatsoever, with any kind of emphasis on the possible results/production of said subject matter? That is a direct question. I expect a direct response according to the rules of the blog.


There is very little. There is a lot of yelling, screaming, and talking about things that don't matter and sowing seeds of disbelief when there shouldn't be any or when it doesn't matter.

BW:
Again, you are an ignorant Liar - and are also practicing a fighting retreat. Not going to happen, without you being seen for what you are.


You mean someone who is rational and not a gamma nutjob with too much time to spew nonsense? Th

Direct queston: why did you claim that I have claimed there is a "conspiracy" involved with the CT shooting? You are lying and making shit up. You lumped me in with said suggestion:

If you weren't part of that, I apologize. However, based on your actions and beliefs, I see no harm in believing you shared the same sort of beliefs as the Alex Jones Prisonplanet nuts who are advocating such a thing -- especially with your quick defense of Jones. Since you have said otherwise, I apologize and retract my statement accusing you of such.

Direct Question: Why are you a Liar?

I'm not.

Anonymous The Gray Man December 19, 2012 4:21 PM  

I'm letting you go, BW, you're worse than John Scalzi and the gamma freaks and have way too much time on your hands. There's nothing else for me to say, my point has been made and your objections include questions that serve no purpose and continued excuses and sarcasm.

Anonymous RedJack December 19, 2012 4:24 PM  

Actualy Gray Man, I don't think this was an elaborate plan by dark forces to take guns. Simpely because such plans often blow up (Fast and Furious for example).

But you are buying that the current "offical" version is the correct one. We don't have the data to know that yet. Anymore than we have the data to know that Infowars is correct. (Had to check it out BTW. Fun site in an Art Bell kind of way).

Study propoganda and marketing. Then watch the news. They are "selling" a product. They can do that with the facts, no matter what the facts are. The trick is to figure out what that product is, and why they are selling it. Same with Infowars or some such thing.

As always, look at the agenda of the person giving you the information. That includes myself, and anyone you talk to.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 4:24 PM  

Gray Man, people are being arrested in the US for selling raw milk to willing, informed buyers. People who take rational precautions like storing food and water are being demonized by the media. We have witnessed the emergence of a totalitarian government over the past couple of decades. Under the circumstances, paranoia is quite justifiable.

Anonymous RedJack December 19, 2012 4:25 PM  

I should not type using my phone. Sorry for the typos in my last post.

Anonymous The Gray Man December 19, 2012 4:28 PM  

It is humorous that virtually every one of you who objects to me believes that I take everything I hear and see at face value.

This is only more telling of how absolutely ignorant of how people work you really are and more reason for me to believe you are as Asperger's-like as the New Atheist followers.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard December 19, 2012 4:38 PM  

It is humorous that virtually every one of you who objects to me believes that I take everything I hear and see at face value.

Why, no. It is obvious that you carefully consider every bit of evidence before discarding those bits that might disturb your comfortable faith in those who you know could snuff out your life not by malice but by sheer incompetence, and with complete impunity to boot.

People like you will be the foundation of my reign, Gray Man. I look forward to it.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 4:44 PM  

People's opinions are based on your own words, Gray. You made the statement that there was no reason to doubt the official story. Inductively, it follows that you find the mainstream media to be credible. You have since clarified your position somewhat, although you have not stated why people should not generally take what they hear at face value but that it is appropriate to do so in this specific case.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 4:49 PM  

You mean someone who is rational and not a gamma nutjob with too much time to spew nonsense?

Have you not been on here posting and responding just as I have? Do you have too much time to spew nonsense? (I am hardly spewing nonsense, as most people reading this know).

If you weren't part of that, I apologize. However, based on your actions and beliefs, I see no harm in believing you shared the same sort of beliefs as the Alex Jones Prisonplanet nuts who are advocating such a thing -- especially with your quick defense of Jones.

You reveal in this exactly who is the crazy one and who is not. What actions do you know of that I personally have/have not taken? You see no harm. How cute. My you are a worthless twit. You made up an entire emotional argument because you are ignorant and stupid - I mentioned from the beginning I was not an AJ fan.
In your own Scalzi, emtotional projection you missed that - purposefully or in ignorance.
I have been, and will continue, to mock the TrueBelievers in government in general, and the MSM in particular.
I have said nothing whatsoever concerning "conspiracy theories".
Not only did I not defend Jones as you assert, I mentioned right off that the opposite was true.

Again, you are putting words and thoughts and beliefs into other people's mouths that have never been there, and then arguing with those ignorant, erroneous, and psychotic beliefs.
And you are purposefully avoiding the only real subject I am hammering on: the actions/outcome/results/production of government and the MSM.
Unlike you, I do indeed see that it matters. It matters very much.

I'm letting you go
Yes. It is me who is the gamma.

too much time on your hands
Again, you've been here all afternoon as well. You are one ignorant mother fucker.
By the way, what does it mean to have "too much time on one's hands". You appear to be making a moral judgement and argument. Is there something more important than debating and getting at Truth?
Do tell. I note that in the end you don't believe it matters anyway.

questions that serve no purpose
You wish they served no purpose. On the contrary.
What my specific questions actually do is put the lie to your Belief system - and on subjects that are vastly more important than any you have presented.
You know, ones that do matter. One that are actions/inactions, and therefore have consequences, from which we all benefit/suffer.

The lies, and hysteria, are all yours.













Anonymous Josh December 19, 2012 4:56 PM  

Wow, this thread is a trainwreck...

Anonymous Casey Jones December 19, 2012 4:57 PM  

No shit.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 4:57 PM  

"Wow, this thread is a trainwreck..."

And yet, no trainwreck label... the world is a mysterious place sometimes.

Anonymous Razoraid December 19, 2012 4:58 PM  

If we arm and train our school teachers in the art of gorilla warfare, the NEA and American Federation of Teachers union will be demanding hazardous duty pay. Actually, they already deserve it.

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 5:04 PM  

People like you will be the foundation of my reign, Gray Man. I look forward to it.

There it is right there in front of you Gray Man and RINO.

The perfect, psycho-spiritual encapsulation.

There are Beliefs, Actions, and Results. And they do indeed matter.

You are purposefully incurious and obtuse as to the part you play - you have no choice in the matter - in the game you wish did not exist. It exists, and it is not new.

Unfortunately, your ego failures affect me negatively, while I do not affect you negatively - apart from the fact that my world view requires you to be far more personally responsible, in every way, as a free human being than you obviously care to ever be.

You are the very thing you claim to hate. Buck up son. We grow weary of your parasitic ass.

Anonymous Edjamacator December 19, 2012 5:08 PM  

And yet, no trainwreck label... the world is a mysterious place sometimes.

I think it's a conspiracy.

Frankly, though, anyone who believes what the MSM says is gullible. I haven't seen anything that shows they are interested in providing the factual truth if there is a view they want people to adopt and the facts contradict it. They'll keep changing enough details of this story until people don't even recognize that details are being changed. People will just get sick of it and want to know what the next circus is.

Anonymous Signe December 19, 2012 5:15 PM  

His Lordship told me to compose a lyric for Gray Man, or else I was fired.

My job sucks.

-----

(to the tune of Should've Never Let You Go)

When you talk about the news
It really steals my breath away
And when truth looks into my eyes
I find it hard to find the guts to stay

Wanna run away and hide
I really don't want to know
I feel so tangled up inside
I'm gonna have to let you go

Government don't make mistakes
And it's really hard to care
But a life without the State
Is a life too hard to bear

I don't care who's right or wrong
Only don't disturb me so
Why did I have to write this song?
I'm gonna have to let you go

Why in all the wide wide world
Have I run into you Ilk?
You're souring my milque...toast

Don't wanna understand
Why do I even give a damn?

Oooooooooh
Uh-uh

When you talk about the truth
You know I stand on shaky ground
I've put so many blinders on me
And you just tear 'em down

Tell me things I can't forget
Watch the tears begin to flow
Now you've got me all upset
I'm gonna have to let you go

Gonna have to let you go

Said things I don't wanna know

Gonna have to let you go

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 5:23 PM  

the NEA and American Federation of Teachers union will be demanding hazardous duty pay. Actually, they already deserve it.

Actually, they do not deserve to live like parasites off of the people considering what they actually do and do not actually produce. (What is the US rank again in "world education" - what are they actually teaching again?)
They actually deserve to be held to account for the actual kill zones and "prey environment" they have created that get little children killed by predators, who know where to seek their easy prey.
And all at the demand of Govt Labor Unions, politics, power, and money. And Belief systems.

Anonymous Razoraid December 19, 2012 5:32 PM  

bw: obviously I fail at sarcasm. Carry on.

Anonymous Mina December 19, 2012 5:55 PM  

ajw308 : I saw your comment, noticed it, grokked it and loved it.

everyone else seems to be too busy worrying about conspiracy theories to hear the really good ideas.

funny how discussion threads imitate life sometimes, huh?

Anonymous clk December 19, 2012 5:56 PM  

VD says "One of the more powerful arguments in favor of homeschooling is that intelligent children will not be "taught" by half-educated women with IQs averaging two and three standard deviations below them."

Actually there's no evidence that the success (or failure since neither has been proven) of the home school student is due to the teacher/parent education/qualification. And I suspect that in some cases the home school (HS) teaching is being done by someone even less educated the the average teacher.

The success of HS has to have something more than the qualification of the HS teachers -- there's some other factor that allows a high school educated home school mother to raise kids that do better the PS educated kids.

I don't know what the cause of the issue with VD is with education majors -- was his first broken heart from a blond haired education major ? :)... but he's got to get past it if we can have a real and serious conversation on PS vs HS.

Anonymous Rantor December 19, 2012 6:02 PM  

clk,

don't be a dolt, SAT scores broken out by major have been available for years. Education majors are, on average, lower than most other majors.

These are facts

Blogger ajw308 December 19, 2012 6:31 PM  

Rantor, clk is dripping estrogen. Drop the facts and tell a story about < 100 IQ El Ed major to make your point.

Anonymous Signe December 19, 2012 6:44 PM  

Drop the facts and tell a story about < 100 IQ El Ed major to make your point.

I had to teach my high-school algebra class. Our teacher didn't understand the material, and finally handed it over to me.

I also knew more about music theory and classical music than my fifth-grade music teacher did.

Don't get me started on the English teacher (who was supposed to teach Shakespeare) who called me illiterate because I told her that a group of evil knights riding down a damsel to take her maidenhead weren't trying to decapitate her.

Anonymous Curlytop December 19, 2012 7:01 PM  

ajw308 December 19, 2012 6:31 PM
Rantor, clk is dripping estrogen. Drop the facts and tell a story about < 100 IQ El Ed major to make your point.


Once upon a time, circa 1980s in the United States, Education leaders determined that there wasn't enough "diversity" in Public Education. "How cruel are we to set our Education Admission standards so high!" They cried. "There are too many wonderful men and women deprived from educating our nation's youth simply because they can't pass a standard 6th or 8th grade level competency test."

So, for the children, the tests were lowered and test scores have skyrocketed!

Ok, so I made that last part up. So NOT only are the SAT scores the lowest, the requirements to begin and finish the teaching program to become certified are as low as they can go.

Anonymous Curlytop December 19, 2012 7:06 PM  

Edit 1:
Ok, so I made that last part up...

referencing that the test scores skyrocketed.

Story 2:
A certain Superintendent of a County School District informed my mother that they(those hiring in Education) didn't gravitate towards the 'A' students who were applicants, but preferred to hire 'B & C' students because "those applicants would be able to relate to more of the students." This justification is known as "The Mediocre Model."

This was common knowledge 20 yrs ago in Masters Level Education courses...

Anonymous rienzi December 19, 2012 7:44 PM  

The thought of public school teachers walking around at work with loaded firearms gives me the creeps. The number of kills they would rack up each year on unarmed victims would dwarve that of the police. Please, no way.

Anonymous RedJack December 19, 2012 8:53 PM  

Dwarve that..

Ok, that was kind of funny.

My wife is a teacher (yes I know), who went into the job because she honestly felt it was her called vocation.

The stories she tells me of public school teachers are very interesting. Most of the grade schools in our area don't teach basic math, because the teachers don't know it.

Blogger James Dixon December 19, 2012 9:15 PM  

> I frankly don't know how any teacher can live on that salary (here) unless they're married to somebody else that is employed.

Most families are now multi-income families. It's the only way they've been able to maintain their standard of living over the past 40 years. It's not just teachers.

Anonymous Curlytop December 19, 2012 9:41 PM  

Redjack,

"Most of the grade schools in our area don't teach basic math, because the teachers don't know it."

Does not surprise me in the least. When I was in college and encountered one of those "Elementary Ed/Early Childhood Education" Majors(they are oh so proud of that big title that simply means "mother"), I'd ask why they selected that age group. Without fail, each one would prattle on about 'the children" but ALWAYS ended with a "plus, I don't understand/get/ like Math."

Just one of many examples: my mother witnessed more than a few elementary ed teachers mention how they skipped teaching the basic Base 12 clock time bc "who needs that when you have digital clocks?"

Way to go, ladies! Talk about cutting the kids off at the knees for higher mathematical application. I mean, it's not like Base 12 is important, right? ;-)

I can only imagine how bad it is now.

My father, who worked for a major telecommunications company and frequented more than his fair share of schools, used to wonder how most of these people made it to their cars at the end of the day w/o those painted footsteps from the door to the curb?

Anonymous Kickass December 19, 2012 9:55 PM  

@ Clk,

1. You are an idiot.
2. We don't need to have a conversation about PS vs HS. Mind your business and I will mind mine.
3. That "something else" that allows the Mother of her own children to teach better then some slub dialing it in until retirement is love.
4. Provide facts backing up your statments, that is required around here and I can not wait to see how you prove that one.

Now go ahead and start to ponder that part of your claim is that a parent who spent 12 years in the prison known as the public school system is not competent enough to teach their children what they were susposed to have learned while being so lovingly educated by the super geniuses?

I wait with baited breathe.

And by the way, in case you haven't figured it out, Vox aint the least bit interested.

Cue the picture of SB....

Anonymous Kickass December 19, 2012 9:57 PM  

I still spell beter then PS teachers and the problem is I went to PS !

Anonymous Kickass December 19, 2012 9:59 PM  

BTW, Loki is really Vox right? Or Markku?

Anonymous Loki of Asgard December 19, 2012 10:07 PM  

BTW, Loki is really Vox right? Or Markku?

About which?

Anonymous bw December 19, 2012 10:21 PM  

@ Signe

I've been around here just about from the start. That's the best composition yet. No question. I was still laughing out loud at the gym and they all thought I was going postal.
I am rocking the LesPaul, Ovation, and Zager in your honor tonight.

And here's one back at you, sans the original creativity, but (MilitaryIndustrialComplex) Ovation present.
By the way, this was the first song that came on when I got in my vehicle to go get dinner. I shit you not. For you my talented friend:

Heart

If you run away now
you'll leave me empty handed
don't leave me Stranded
don't leave me now

i just turn around
and there's nobody there
don't leave me like this

NO!

Anonymous Passinthrough December 19, 2012 10:25 PM  

We were speaking of teachers. I have known some excellent teachers who earned their teaching certificate from the Normal School, the forerunner of the modern community college. I've also known some total drones. Education in the United States needs a hard reboot.

The sagebrush telegraph reports that the shop teacher at the local high school has been arrested for sex with an eighth grader.

Anonymous John Dewey December 19, 2012 11:08 PM  

We were speaking of teachers.

Not for a majority of the thread, but ok.

The model, as has been pointed out around here for 8 years, is a Prussian one. Is that factually and historically incorrect?
Until Americans understand the model, why it is in place, what they said they wished to achieve by it, and how human beings actually LEARN, then the "reboot" will likely be in ignorance, and futile.

Anonymous Noah B. December 19, 2012 11:36 PM  

"Until Americans understand the model, why it is in place, what they said they wished to achieve by it, and how human beings actually LEARN, then the "reboot" will likely be in ignorance, and futile."

I sure didn't know that before I started reading this blog. These are the kinds of things one doesn't typically learn in public school.

Blogger IM2L844 December 19, 2012 11:53 PM  

Do you know what the average starting salary is in Arizona, since you want to claim it's so low?

The median per capita income in Phoenix is around 25K and the cost of living multiplier is .879 of the national average. Since 25K is the average, you can be sure there are a whole lot of people in Phoenix making much less and doing okay.

Having written a household budget application containing an extensive national data base, I've spent a great deal of time researching the topic and in my opinion if an individual person can't comfortably live on 32K/year in Phoenix, they are doing something horribly wrong.

Your only point can be that you think teachers deserve better. They don't. 32K/year works out to about $30.00/hour for teachers. I think that is more than sufficient for what they do. It's not physically demanding. It's not intellectually demanding. And, given the inherent job security and excessively generous time off, it is far less stressful than most other occupations.

Working teachers need to stop whining and be more appreciative for their stroke of good luck.

Anonymous The other skeptic December 20, 2012 12:01 AM  

If what I have heard is correct, that Obama has put the guns "problem" in Biden's lap, I have to say that I am confident that nothing much will be done and Obama only wanted to be seen to be doing something.

Anonymous Noah B. December 20, 2012 12:16 AM  

@other skeptic

If you're right, then the gun stores and manufacturers owe Obama and the Senate Democrats big time. I haven't been to any gun stores since this happened because I knew that things would be totally nuts, and apparently they are. I'm in the Dallas-Fort Worth area of Texas, and from the people I've talked to, gun stores are pretty much sold out of automatic long guns and handguns. A friend of mine went to two stores today, and at one, the wait for a background check was two hours. He bought the last two .223 rifles they had in stock.

Even when the first assault ban was being passed, I didn't see anything remotely like this.

Anonymous Noah B. December 20, 2012 12:21 AM  

If you made this stuff up, people wouldn't believe it... but a gun that an ATF agent bought has turned up at a murder scene in Mexico.

Quite the omelet this regime has cooked up.

Blogger Duke of Earl December 20, 2012 2:32 AM  

When my fiancée was teaching she was usually awake at midnight marking and preparing lessons. Admittedly that is in New Zealand. Broken down to an hourly wage she averaged out at about the minimum wage.

Most teachers I knew were sick for the first week of their holidays as the stress came off. Then they had to prepare for the next term.

I'm glad she quit and went back into the workforce, although she now suffers from bad anxiety.

Anonymous kh123 December 20, 2012 3:12 AM  

Ah, but see, Jon Stewart just caricatured homeschooling on the Daily Show, so it must be bad.

My only surprise was that he didn't use a South Park animation showing parents gunning down their kids - or vice versa - while learning about Adam and Eve riding a stegosaurus*. Unless they're saving that for another segment to go along with their expose on public schools practicing blood libel. Which is actually not all that far from the truth, given recent events.

(*Considering all the terrible, terrible evils of YEC and its denial of Science™, I'm not sure it can boast of having any scientistic mantras of its own, much less them being sported on the shirt of at least one school shooter. No one wearing 6,000+/- y.a. while capping innocent biology undergrads, so far as I know. I'm surprised Stewart hasn't poked fun at the fact that Harris may have listened a little too intently in biology class about that big bad Lizard King Rex, "red in tooth and claw", terrorizing a mystical land long ago and far, far away.)

Blogger James Dixon December 20, 2012 6:58 AM  

> The median per capita income in Phoenix is around 25K and the cost of living multiplier is .879 of the national average. Since 25K is the average, you can be sure there are a whole lot of people in Phoenix making much less and doing okay.

Thanks, IML. I suspected as much, but I couldn't find the information with a quick search. In other words, a starting teacher in Phoenix makes about a third more than your average employee.

And the underpaid argument goes down again. But like any good zombie, it'll be back.

> When my fiancée was teaching she was usually awake at midnight marking and preparing lessons. Admittedly that is in New Zealand. Broken down to an hourly wage she averaged out at about the minimum wage.

Unpaid overtime is a fact of life for most professionals. Teachers aren't the only ones who put in long days. They are the only ones who get the entire summer off, however.

> Most teachers I knew were sick for the first week of their holidays as the stress came off. Then they had to prepare for the next term.

Job stress is a fact of life for most professionals too.

Again, these type of comments come up any time teacher pay/performance comes up. If the job is actually so hard and so stressful, why is anyone doing it? It's not like anyone is pointing a gun at their head and forcing them to do so. Or perhaps they should look at the situation and realize that if they're finding it that hard, maybe they're not really that good at the job in the first place.



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