ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2014 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Monday, December 03, 2012

I'm certainly not sold

But perhaps we can hope this is the dreaded "vote of confidence" in Christian Ponder:
“Christian is our quarterback,” Frazier said, via Tom Powers of the Pioneer Press. “We are going to do all we can to help him have a good game against Chicago and to help our team go out and get a win.”

Frazier said that the game needs to be a learning experience for the young quarterback, something that makes sense given the team’s commitment to Ponder if not the idea that Joe Webb might have been able to help them win on this Sunday. Powers wondered if the rest of the Vikings would be thrilled to hear the team was sticking with the long-term goal of developing Ponder even if it comes at the expense of winning games now.
Considering that Andrew Luck and RG3 are much better than Ponder without the extra season of development, I am dubious that Mr. Play-Action Roll-Out and his five-yard completions are going to significantly improve.  Let him play out the rest of the season, fine.  But then get a real quarterback.  Wasting AD's prime and his 200-yard games is borderline criminal.

To be honest, I'm increasingly of the opinion that both Ponder and Frazier are mediocre.  Neither is actually terrible, which occasionally leads to false hope.  But neither strike me as ever posing much of a threat to win a Super Bowl even if they weren't Vikings.

Labels:

65 Comments:

Anonymous WaterBoy December 03, 2012 1:07 PM  

Vox: "But then get a real quarterback. Wasting AD's prime and his 200-yard games is borderline criminal."

They're just following the lead set by the Lions with Barry Sanders.

You only need one or the other, amiright?

Anonymous Josh December 03, 2012 1:10 PM  

We'll trade you Jake Locker

Blogger Nate December 03, 2012 1:14 PM  

Bah.. how long till the vikings move to LA? Or maybe we can convince Alabama to update replace Legion Field... and the Vikings can come home to a city with Vulcan himself over looking down town.

Blogger SarahsDaughter December 03, 2012 1:17 PM  

The Walker trade worked for Dallas. Perhaps it's time to sacrifice Peterson?

Anonymous Daniel December 03, 2012 1:18 PM  

210 yards in a loss? What was it, an homage to the Barry Sanders Detroit Lions?

Oh wait, even the Lions actually won those four games when Barry hit 200.

Maybe AD stands for "All Done" but the crying.

Frazier's strategy is terrible, but the only person who should be blamed for that boneheaded throw is Ponder.

The one thing they claimed we WEREN'T getting in Ponder was a dingbat. And yet, dingbattery ensues. He's a mediocre quarterback with below-average confidence.

Man, if they could have just sucked enough to beat out the Colts for the Luck.

Trade for Tebow now.

Anonymous Daniel December 03, 2012 1:20 PM  

The Walker trade worked for Dallas. Perhaps it's time to sacrifice Peterson?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! It worked for Dallas because of one thing and one thing only:

It was Minnesota doing the trading.

Do not plant that seed, please. I don't care how much you hate the Vikings...do not plant that seed!

Anonymous Stilicho December 03, 2012 1:21 PM  

To be honest, I'm increasingly of the opinion that both Ponder and Frazier are mediocre. Neither is actually terrible, which occasionally leads to false hope. But neither strike me as ever posing much of a threat to win a Super Bowl even if they weren't Vikings.

Welcome to the new, corporate committee style, risk-averse NFL. Some teams just seem to lose sight of the 2 indispensable qualifications of a franchise QB: 1) can make all of the throws; and 2) can correctly decide where to throw it under pressure. "Looks good on paper" and "looks good in practice" should be surgically removed from GM's minds.

Blogger SarahsDaughter December 03, 2012 1:21 PM  

There's a team next door that would love AD.

Seed planted.

Anonymous DrTorch December 03, 2012 1:24 PM  

Very few "terrible" QBs in the NFL.

Part of problem is league has pushed the rules to favor passing offenses, and they love seeing teams air it out.

But, there aren't enough talented QBs for everyone to run that sort of offense.

NFL needs to see a return of varying offense styles to keep their parity.

Blogger Tim December 03, 2012 1:30 PM  

@Stilicho

If "Looks good on paper" and "looks good in practice" are to not be used for determining the ability of the player, then that leaves us with game play only. And for young players that means college game play. So why aren't Colt McCoy or Tim Tebow starting?

Anonymous Stilicho December 03, 2012 1:34 PM  

My point (above) being that mediocre is seen as more acceptable by some NFL decision makers than potentially being held accountable for taking a risk (on a Tebow or a Ryan Mallet to use 2 recent examples that were considered risky for different reasons).

Anonymous Stilicho December 03, 2012 1:42 PM  

So why aren't Colt McCoy or Tim Tebow starting?

Because they could not do this:

the 2 indispensable qualifications of a franchise QB: 1) can make all of the throws; and 2) can correctly decide where to throw it under pressure.

Now, I don't mean to say that GM's shouldn't consider other factors, but only after they've looked and these 2 first and foremost.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation (Ben) December 03, 2012 1:51 PM  

I don't understand the whole idea of developing the QB. If a team has a bad quarterback situation, they need to develop the running game and use the QB as support and an occasional hail mary wildcard.

Not every team can have Tom Brady as the QB.

Blogger CJ December 03, 2012 2:00 PM  

After the Bears were dismantled by Russell Wilson and Colin SpellCheck, I would be terrified if Frazier went with Joe Webb. As it is, I'm glad he's still helping to win games for the Bears.

Anonymous bw December 03, 2012 2:17 PM  

If a team has a bad quarterback situation, they need to develop the running game and use the QB as support

Run to Pass, Pass to open up the run, etc. Have you seen What Peterson is and is doing? CP7 has the best running back in the League.
Ponder's job should be infinitely easier. The QB passing game can't get any easier when the D commits players to stack the box to stop the run, thus freeing up the Receivers and QB.
And he STILL isn't getting it done.
You're missing something about basic football - ANY team in the NFL can commit to stop one specific aspect of your offense, no problem. At that point, the other aspect, be it pass or run, has to be legitimate. They are making it easier for you in that other aspect as well.
Ponder looks infinitely WORSE exactly BECAUSE they have an unbelievable running game. The Vikes aren't losing games because they're not running the ball incredibly well.

Anonymous bw December 03, 2012 2:28 PM  

that leaves us with game play only. And for young players that means college game play. So why aren't Colt McCoy or Tim Tebow starting?

You are leaving out two things: 1. The talent around them in college vs the other college teams they play - the disparity isn't remotely close to what you see in college - NFL is a billion dollar business 2. The step to the NFL is akin to the step from HS to College. These references are constantly made year in and year out by former pro QB commentators : speed of the game is much faster (BETTER decisions have to be made FASTER etc), leading receivers open, the hole you need to throw into shrinks by half, etc.
Tebow and McCoys' college teams were VASTLY superior all around compared to their competition - they benefitted from the NFL talent on those teams, and both had Incredible Defenses - and Tebow had "the system" as well.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 03, 2012 2:31 PM  

DrTorch is right, there aren't enough good QBs to go around if everyone is going to run the standard passing game. Stillcho's two qualities needed are right, but there's only a handful of guys who can make the throws and the decisions under pressure. There are another couple handfulls who can make the throws and the decisions if their line gives them time.

But half the league has QBs who either can't make the throws or can't make the decisions even with time. Those guys can't consistently move the ball down the field, they'll eventually kill drives with INCs or INTs.

I think teams need to realize that if they have a Tavaris Jackson, going out and getting a Christian Ponder isn't going to help. If you can't find at least a Matt Ryan, go with a Tebow or some other non-traditional style of QB.

Anonymous Azimus December 03, 2012 2:33 PM  

My knowledge of the NFL is not deep. Is there an example in NFL history where developing a quarterback through several seasons of mediocrity has led to a pro bowl or Superbowl of a quarterback? Excluding development in the backup role of course. Has this strategy ever panned out?

Anonymous bw December 03, 2012 2:36 PM  

Note the number of starters in the NFL that were on Tebow's team.
He was tough, and liked to run his mouth (and cry after losses)...and what he actually was as a true QB is being played out right now. He was a "system" Quarterback.

It was fun to watch everyone jump on that "God is with him" band wagaon, as it relates to Quarterbacking football. I was a bit surprised that it passed muster around here.
It was absurd - and always will be.

Anonymous bw December 03, 2012 2:47 PM  

a quarterback through several seasons of mediocrity has led to a pro bowl or Superbowl of a quarterback?

Super Bowls have been won with very mediocre QB's recently.
Ravens (Defense) w/Dilfer
Bucs ("Tampa 2 Defense") w/Johnson
(both of above needed very good run game, and had it)

Anonymous O.C. December 03, 2012 2:47 PM  

You're wrong, Vox. Ponder clearly is a world-class quarterback in the making, and one we'll all be talking about in years to come. He simply needs more time to develop, and I can't think of a better place in the world for him to do that developing than as starting QB for the Vikings, under the brilliant tutelage of Coach Frazier.





Why, yes, I am a Packers fan. Why do you ask?

Anonymous Azimus December 03, 2012 2:52 PM  

bw December 03, 2012 2:47 PM
Super Bowls have been won with very mediocre QB's recently.
Ravens (Defense) w/Dilfer
Bucs ("Tampa 2 Defense") w/Johnson
(both of above needed very good run game, and had it)


Sorry a little was lost in the translation there. I'm not looking for "Average/mediocre QB's who've won a Superbowl", I'm looking for "QB's that started crappy/mediocre and became all stars after letting them throw away several games/seasons."


Anonymous RINO December 03, 2012 2:56 PM  

Vox, there is a quarterback out there that's a perfect fit and he's even available. His name is Brett Favre.

Anonymous Stilicho December 03, 2012 2:57 PM  

But half the league has QBs who either can't make the throws or can't make the decisions even with time. Those guys can't consistently move the ball down the field, they'll eventually kill drives with INCs or INTs.

You can win a Superbowl with a mediocre, "game manager" QB. See the 2000 Ravens and 2003 Buccaneers for examples. It's tough to do though, because you need that really good defense and enough offensive firepower to keep a lead. As your QB gets better, it gets easier (see Steelers under Big Ben) and as you travel the QB spectrum you see the Mannings and Bradys running high octane offenses with second-rate defenses just trying to slow down opponents. The Packers seemed to be in a sweet spot recently (until this year) with a really good offense and a tough defense.

With the current pass-happy rules, salary cap and free agency, it is much easier to build around a good franchise QB than to try to keep a defense together and in the top 5 or so. But first, you have to find that elusive franchise QB.;

Anonymous Stilicho December 03, 2012 2:59 PM  

"QB's that started crappy/mediocre and became all stars after letting them throw away several games/seasons."

Doug Williams had one magical season, but I wouldn't call him a star.

Anonymous Fatso McGraw December 03, 2012 3:01 PM  

Terry Bradshaw stunk up the joint early in his career, though he played for terrible Pittsburgh teams and never really became an "elite QB" (though he sure could win Super Bowls).

Dan Fouts wasn't good early in his career - or so he claimed the other day on TV. Too lazy to look up his stats to find out.

Anonymous Roundtine December 03, 2012 3:10 PM  

I was surprised to see that Romo has the Cowboy's TD record. Looking at Aikman's stats, he had touchdown and interceptions both in the teens in some years. Emmitt Smith was racking up the TDs those years. Similar to Schaub in Houston right now with their run game. A mediocre quarterback needs the ability to win and not turn the ball over. Better to have an Aikman or Schaub, but a great run game can cover for a mediocre QB.

Blogger ajw308 December 03, 2012 3:14 PM  

"It's a building season" is what a high school coach says when he's 0-5 and lacking speed, size and talent.

When a professional coach find himself lacking size, speed or talent, he's only got himself to blame unlike the small town coach, since he had a draft pool and free agents to choose from.

This is a draft, talent identification, recruitment, and negotiating failure.

The proper way to develop a quarterback in the NFL is how Aaron Rogers was developed. You win games with him as #2 and play him as appropriate though his development time is in practice.

This is just a guy trying to talk his way out of losing season that is built on his choices.

Blogger Doom December 03, 2012 3:15 PM  

Okay Charlie Brown, quit with the "But... but... Lucy will hold the ball for real, eventually, won't she?" thread. It ain't going to happen, unless they become quota'ed into winning the Super Bowl. Period. Hmm, well, as things go, that might happen. But it won't be based on the skill in the field. Actually, look for one of the worst teams, on paper, you have ever seen. That is the quota horse to bet on.

Anonymous WaterBoy December 03, 2012 3:17 PM  

Azimus: "I'm looking for "QB's that started crappy/mediocre and became all stars after letting them throw away several games/seasons."

Yes. Peyton Manning's first two years:

1998 (16 games): 326/575 (56.7%) 3,739yds 26TD 28INT 71.2 rating
1999 (16 games): 331/533 (62.1%) 4,135yds 26TD 15INT 90.7 rating

Compare to Ponder's first two years (to date):

2011 (11 games): 158/291 (54.3%) 1,853yds 13TD 13INT 70.1 rating
2012 (12 games): 240/384 (62.5%) 2,305yds 14TD 11INT 79.4 rating

That's not to say that Ponder is/will be as good as Peyton, of course; Manning showed remarkably better improvement in his second year than Ponder has. But even great QBs don't necessarily start that way.

Anonymous DrTorch December 03, 2012 3:20 PM  

Azimus- Drew Brees. His first two years were inconsistent. By the time the Chargers drafted Rivers, Brees' 3rd year, Brees was lighting it up.

Anonymous Daniel December 03, 2012 3:20 PM  

Ravens (Defense) w/Dilfer
Bucs ("Tampa 2 Defense") w/Johnson

Johnson and Dilfer were better than Ponder will ever be. Dilfer couldn't complete a pass, which is better than being able to complete a pass on purpose to the other team. Johnson was above average, slightly. Vanilla, yes, and no world-beater, but competent. Ponder isn't competent or confident.

By the way, percentage of mediocre qbs who win the big one is low, anyway you slice it: out of 40+ games, I can only think of four appearances where the winning qb was middle of the road (that includes Rypien, even though that one year was obviously a huge peak in terms of what he did on the field, not just the talent around him). Out of those four, there wasn't one of them where the losing qb was better than the winner, except maybe when Elway lost vs. the Redskins.

Kerry Collins wasn't better than Dilfer, and Rich Gannon wasn't better than Johnson.

The problem with Ponder is, even if he made it to the Superbowl, what team with a crappier qb would be on the other side of him? I can't think of any that would be close, unless by some miracle Pittsburgh made it to the title game with Checkdown Charlie Batch at the helm. Even then, Batch's seniority in mediocrity would trump Ponder's newborn mediocrity. At least Charlie's won a few big games despite his limitations.

Anonymous bw December 03, 2012 3:27 PM  

not looking for "Average/mediocre QB's who've won a Superbowl", I'm looking for

Ok. I was just going off of what you actually wrote:
"through several seasons of mediocrity has led to a pro bowl or Superbowl of a quarterback?"

Obviously, Dilfer and Johnson were not only SuperBowl QB's, but were SuperBowl winning QB's. And BJ was a pro Bowler one year.

To answer your question, much of it has to do with the TEAM around them. The more talent, the better you look.
What did Aikmen do his first year? Manning?
Look at the talent on the teams of these QB's compared to the rest of the League, and you should see a pattern:
Bradshaw, Montana, Young, Aikmen, Brady, Mannings, etc.
How is NOrleans this year? Does Brees suck all of the sudden? How about GBay? Has ARogers lost it?

"Franchise Quarterbacks" are GREATLY AIDED by what they have around them, in general.
Marino is always a "go to": Franchise QB. No running game. No Ring. It's all about the Metric - and it's not all about the QB.

Anonymous Daniel December 03, 2012 3:34 PM  

That's not to say that Ponder is/will be as good as Peyton, of course; Manning showed remarkably better improvement in his second year than Ponder has. But even great QBs don't necessarily start that way.

Whoa. Missing the forest for the trees there. Take another look at those stats. Manning threw for the same number of tds that he averaged over his career. His 1st two year yardages dwarf Ponder's. He had to figure out one thing: how to cut back on INTs.

If Ponder cuts his INTs in half, he's still only passing for a dozen+ tds per year.

In other words, Manning showed spectacular, measurable promise in his "awful" first two seasons, a pair of seasons that leave Ponder's start in a smoldering ruin. Ponder, with a lot of improvement, will top out at average.

Not what the Vikings need. Not now, not ever. Better than Tarvaris Jackson? Sure. But that's not the right bar to be shooting for.

It's as if the coach and qb are merely sub-par at just the right level so as to not draw any attention to themselves en route to a semi reliable .500 team.

I was pleasantly surprised this year when the Vikings did not suck eggs. But I can't see from this team, what exactly they are trying to build toward.

Under no circumstances should your back run like the 20th Maine downhill against the 15th Alabama and then watch the qb convert the affair into the Charge of the Light Brigade.

Anonymous Daniel December 03, 2012 3:40 PM  

To answer your question, much of it has to do with the TEAM around them. The more talent, the better you look.

...Yeah. If only those darn Vikings could upgrade AD and Percy Harvin to Jamal Lewis and Qadry Ismail, Ponder would be lighting the world on fire.

Anonymous bw December 03, 2012 3:48 PM  

Kerry Collins wasn't better than Dilfer, and Rich Gannon wasn't better than Johnson. Daniel

Nor were Collins and Gannon - in those specific years - worse than Trent or Brad.

Both Collins and Gannon were PRO BOWLERS. (how that comes about notwithstanding - it would apply to Brad as well, etc.)

It is what those Defenses did to those Qb's, their OLine, their Recievers, their Backs, etc that made the difference.

Those Defenses did that to those QB's and won those Super Bowls.
They made those opposing QB's look like that. The game is not played in a vacuum.

People fail to note the importance of pressure by defenses. Penetration. Controlling the edge. Key blitzes and coverages.
The QB has to make great decisions much faster, better throws, all while getting beat up physically (that tends to wear on the psyche as you might imagine).
It's the same reason the country is getting tired of the SEC winning National Championships: Physicality (all around) and Defense. Period.
Alabama does not have the superior QB game in and out. There's so much more to it. O-line. Backs. Physicality. Defense. Discipline. Motivation.
NFL? Same, same.

People want it simple and believe offense should always win, because it's fun and sexy. (like you)
It shouldn't always win. And does not.


Anonymous bw December 03, 2012 4:00 PM  

...Yeah. If only those darn Vikings could upgrade AD and Percy Harvin to Jamal Lewis and Qadry Ismail, Ponder would be lighting the world on fire.

Already covered that in my first post.
Where does the Vike's Defense rank? The offensive line's PASS BLOCKING specifically? Harvin blocks and plays Defense? Is he a HOF receiver?
The Colts built a team around Peyton Manning specifically.
You understand why they had the pass rushing D they had, correct?

I noted 4 WEEKS AGO that Ponder was not looking good. You're barking up the wrong tree. The totality of my posts are not about CP7 specifically. I was the first one to call him out (he was my College teams QB). They were winning despite him.

Blogger James Dixon December 03, 2012 4:06 PM  

You could always give Kurt Warner or Marc Bulger a call, they might be willing to come out of retirement.

Anonymous Daniel December 03, 2012 4:13 PM  

bw, Vikings aren't in the playoffs, either or playing playoff teams every week. Green Bay's defense did not force Ponder to throw his INT. Vike's aren't playing the SB Ravens or Bucs - they are choking against beatable teams, and it most assuredly is coming down to qb. Vikings defense is not the problem. The back is the best, by far, in the league. The receivers are catching passes. Special teams are good.

Could all of them be better? Sure. But the greatest (by far, and it isn't close) point of improvement that could be made is at the qb position.

I'm not saying this was a Super Bowl team - obviously it isn't. But there's no reason for it to not make the playoffs. That game at GB was theirs to take: Vikings could have run all afternoon had Ponder simply thrown the ball away, and they settled for a FG.

Did you see that pass? Don't tell me he threw it like that because he didn't have the tools.

Anonymous Daniel December 03, 2012 4:15 PM  

I take that back: there is no conceivable way in which AD needs to improve. Everything else could show incremental improvement. Offensive calling and quarterbacking, however, are an albatross.

Anonymous Just Mark December 03, 2012 4:19 PM  

Might be nice if the Viking receivers could shake a corner. Looked like the Green Bay corners were making a Gorilla Glue commercial.

Anonymous bw December 03, 2012 5:14 PM  

@Daniel

You and I are really not at odds my friend. My points are not about the Vikes specifically. People started talking about "Quarterbacking" vs results in general.
I noted first that AP is the best back in the league - having had TWO ACL injuries for a first-ballot HOF RB to boot! Crazy. (first one out of OU of course). I said to myself "he's done". Wrong. He's just as good.

I called out Ponder before anyone else (again, I have more "invested" in him than most around here due to college football and so was paying attention to what he was/wasn't doing, and how he relates to what is now happening/not happening at FSU - I couldn't care less about the Vikes, or Pro football in general, but that doesn't mean football doesn't work the same way on all levels.)



Anonymous Daniel December 03, 2012 5:14 PM  

Without Harvin, they aren't in great shape, but it doesn't matter, since their window of distance is between 3.5 and 4.5 yards from the line of scrimmage, toward the sidelines. Okay, maybe 5 yards if Ponder really guns it long.

Seriously, his average completion is something like 6 yards. That's Joe Webbesque.

Anonymous The Gray Man December 03, 2012 5:15 PM  

Ponder never should have thrown that INT. That's one of those passes that you just need to be hit in the head for making.

Anonymous Daniel December 03, 2012 5:40 PM  

Of note: Christian Ponder is 24th in the league in terms of total yardage this year, ahead of:

Roethlisberger (injured - out)
Cutler (injured - back in now)
Vick (injured - out)
Cassel (benched)
Smith (benched)
Gabbert (uh...Gabbert)

So, aside from Gabbert, Christian Ponder is dead last in yardage among qbs who have played in every game this year. His rating (which i put little value in vs. my own two eyes - but it happens to match in this case) is atrocious.

He's one bad game away from leading the league in INT's and trailing the league in TDs. I think I've been to generous to him with the description "mediocre." A mediocre (relatively, of course - we are talking about the 50 best qbs on the planet, here) quarterback would have beaten GB yesterday.

Brandon Weeden wouldn't have made that pass. I think Tim Tebow could have made those passes and won that game. I'm fairly confident that Sam Bradford and Joe Flacco would have this team driving the division instead of hanging by a thread. That's not saying that much: my point is a mediocre quarterback could win more games than Ponder.

Ponder's like Rex Grossman without the upside.

Anonymous MANAS December 03, 2012 6:08 PM  

@Vox

OT, but I have a rare opportunity next month to meet David Nixon, who co-produced the movie Fireproof. Knowing that some heavyweights in the Manosphere have concerns about this film (and because I'm not too good with theological questions) I’d be grateful for your suggestions on a few pithy and pertinent questions I could ask David (before a Christian audience) that will expose the inherent misandry in the film. If you’re so inclined, feel free to post them here or email me at menarenotabusers@gmail.com. It seems too rare an opportunity to miss, so I’d really appreciate your help.

Anonymous bw December 03, 2012 6:17 PM  

their window of distance is between 3.5 and 4.5 yards

Harvin's calling card has always been RAC. That's what it was in college, that's what it is now, Ponder's inabilities notwithstanding.

I think Tim Tebow could have made those passes and won that game.
Not even close. The evidence suggests otherwise, and he will in fact never get another starting shot at doing so - and he never should have. Denver's D is the only thing that allowed them to go .500 last year. Ryan just skipped over him for McElroy, for goodness' sake. He was only in NY to draw attention and push Sanchez - major Backfire.

Ponder's like Rex Grossman without the upside
At this point, his feet are a much better upside than Grossman - but that is it.

Admittedly, I do not follow it closely enough to know what kind of check-offs Ponder is making, and what they are/are not. Is he checking into proper plays under the circumstance and just unable to make the throws? Is he making horrible check-offs?
Most people are not even aware of that aspect of the game. THAT is why they took him when/where they did in the draft.
His arm has always been suspect, SINCE HE WAS INJURED HIS ENTIRE CAREER IN COLLEGE. (he was pulled on the first series of his very last game before the draft for the backup because of elbow injury - he threw an easy 5yd TD pass straight into the ground - literally).

Maybe Samantha Steele is the problem.

Anonymous JT December 03, 2012 6:20 PM  

Slightly OT, but check out the football related attack on masculinity but the feminist culture: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/12/03/CNN-culture-of-manliness-Belcher

Anonymous JT December 03, 2012 6:22 PM  

BY the feminist culture, meant to say, autocorrect.

Anonymous Les Steckel December 03, 2012 7:36 PM  

What's that? 8 Million under the salary cap? FFS FIND A QUARTERBACK!

Anonymous Les Steckel December 03, 2012 7:39 PM  

Oh, and eliminate the offensive coordinator position.

This is a game not a boardroom. Stop thinking like a businessman and start letting your guys play the game.

Namath didn't need an offensive coordinator.
Lombardi didn't have an offensive coordinator.

Blogger Unknown December 03, 2012 8:18 PM  

Ponder is not the answer, but the Viking receiving core is not the greatest. I always thought they should have given Webb more of a shot.

Blogger Rahul December 03, 2012 9:40 PM  

Let Ponder start. Da Bears are bound to win then. :P

Anonymous Geoff-UK December 03, 2012 10:00 PM  

@Nate,

If the state of Alabama pisses away another nickel on Legion Field or anything else that's supposed to "grow" Jefferson County without addressing the root problem, I'm going to scream.

What's the over/under on 2045 being the year melanin-challenged people begin leaving Shelby County to get even further away from the Magic City?

Anonymous Outlaw X December 03, 2012 10:14 PM  

Vox, I am sure you won't believe this, but I just found out what 'RG3" meant during Monday night half time.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 03, 2012 10:41 PM  

He [Tebow] was a "system" Quarterback.

So are three-fourths of the starting QBs in the league. Matt Schaub, Christian Ponder, Mark Sanchez and Tim Tebow are all "sytem" QBs.

The difference is, Schaub is a system QB in the Throw the Ball Down the Field (TBDF) system and - if his O-line gives him time - can make the system work. Ponder and Sanchez are system QBs in the TBDF system but can't make it work. Too inconsistent with throws and decisions. Tebow is a "system" QB in a system that basically has a Fullback throw a dozen or so wobbly ducks down the field during the game. And Tebow can make that system work.

My whole point is if you don't have a guy who can make the TBDF system work, you should try something different. One of the most amazing things to me is how idiotic so many NFL head coaches are. The primary ability of a coach ought to be knowing the skill set of his players, but you keep getting guys who ask Mark Sanchez to play Tom Brady's game, and Sanchez isn't capable of it. Or in Oakland, they have a RB in McFadden who is excellent running behid a power blocking scheme, but he doesn't have the skill set to be effective with a zone blocking scheme. So of course the coach implements a zone blocking system, thereby nullifying his best offensive player.

Anonymous bw December 03, 2012 11:53 PM  

And Tebow can make that system work.
Incorrect. At least the NFL is saying "No. No he cannot".
This isn't High School and College.

So are three-fourths of the starting QBs in the league.

I was referring to his success in College.

No, 3/4 of NFL are not Zone Read Option running QB's who cannot throw a lick (45% comp). Never have been. Never will be. You are comparing apples to oranges.


And you are incorrect concerning the NFL, unless you care to point out all of the teams that run the Zone read option and Urban Meyers' (college) offense.
Every one of them fun some sort of Pro Style offense. We are not talking about RunningBacks and blocking schemes. We are talking about QB's in said Pro Style offenses, which, again are what all NFL teams run.

To understand it, you need only read what the coaches in Denver and NY have said about what would be necessary to teach all of their players were Tebow to be the QB. The analysts have covered it all.
He cannot throw. There's nothing to check to. He is one dimensional.

To clarify for you, there is only ONE basic syle of Offense compared to what Tebow has ever run. No one runs it in the NFL because it will not work, once adjusted to. It might as well be the wingT. There's a reason they don't run it. If it worked everyone would do it. It is a college offense (and only works there with the likes of what Meyer put together - again, many of those players are having grand success in the pros, while Tebow is not - his college teams were Loaded, which is why they won 2 NC's in 4 years, Tebow having little to nothing to do with the first - he wasn't even the QB). Have to pass the ball well at times to win when the box gets loaded. Simply look at what Belichek/NE did to Denver in the playoffs. Pathetic.

And RGIII is never going to last long in the League and keep his health if he keeps consistently taking hits like that. Gruden is trying to hint that to everyone without saying it.

Anonymous The other skeptic December 04, 2012 1:25 AM  

Hmmmm, I think old Samuel L Jackson has been sucking his own johnson

Blogger Peter Garstig December 04, 2012 3:33 AM  

Ponder is really bad. But given the statue of our offense, only a handfull of QB's would be successfull here. I never saw an offense this predictable and lame as the Vikings the last 2 years (This offense looks exactly the same as at the start of _last_ season with McNabb). I think they have like 4, maybe 5 passing plays in their play book. That's just bad, really bad. I never saw a comeback route the whole year, no short hooks, long hooks, whatever. It's either the quick out to Harvin behind the LOS, the fader to the sideline to Simpson/Jenkins, the in-route to Devin/Harvin or the kick-out to Rudolph.

Musgrave has to go and Ponder should not start next year. WR/QB in the first 2 rounds.

And if Lezlie does not take care of those 2 things, he's showing that he has no business at a HC Job in this league.

Blogger James Dixon December 04, 2012 6:13 AM  

> No one runs it in the NFL because it will not work, once adjusted to.

Since Denver didn't even run it the first few games (still trying to fit Tebow into a standard offense) and still finished 8-8, made the playoffs, and won their first playoff game, I'd say your case is unproven.

Blogger Nate December 04, 2012 9:05 AM  

"What's the over/under on 2045 being the year melanin-challenged people begin leaving Shelby County to get even further away from the Magic City?"

You do realize we're talking about Alabama right? The black population is not centered in urban areas in the south.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 04, 2012 1:15 PM  

bw, you're missing the point by such a wide margin that it's probably fruitless to continue.




Anonymous Geoff-UK December 04, 2012 7:25 PM  

@Nate,

You should leave Mountain Brook once in a while man--downtown Bham is indistinguishable from Detroit nowadays.

And yeah, I know a lot of the black population of AL is spread out in rural areas (Greenetrack), but Jefferson County is bankruptcy central and the population explains why.

Anonymous Susan December 04, 2012 7:53 PM  

Maybe the fact that Ponder just proposed marriage to the aforementioned Ms. Steele recently and she accepted is what has him preoccupied right now instead of paying attention to his job.

Article said she covers college sports for ESPN? She looks to be the usual regulation blond reporter.

Anonymous asdf December 05, 2012 8:05 PM  

Do you live in Minnesota? It would explain a lot.

Post a Comment

NO ANONYMOUS COMMENTS. Anonymous comments will be deleted.

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts