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Friday, January 04, 2013

More questions at Sandy Hook

Lanza didn't even have an assault rifle:
After two weeks of media reports that a .223 AR-15 Bushmaster was found in the trunk of Lanza's car, gun aficionados point out that the rifle is not a Bushmaster, nor even an AR-class assault weapon. Gun experts say that the weapon shown in an NBC News report is some kind of shotgun. 
Another interesting aspect of the news report pointed out by law enforcement commenters is that the officer seems to be completely mishandling evidence, possibly destroying valuable fingerprints and other clues. Law enforcement commenters have indicated that proper procedure might call for the trunk being sealed with evidence tape and the entire car transported to a main crime lab for examination and evidence gathering, such as dusting for prints. This follows a bewildering change of story from the authorities as to what weapons were actually used in the shooting.
At this point, I think it is perfectly reasonable to question if Lanza had anything to do with the shootings beyond being one of the victims of the real shooters.  But what about those grief-stricken parents?  And why is the media still going on about assault rifles when they have nothing to do with what supposedly happened at Sandy Hook?
I was entirely willing to reserve judgment, but the inexplicable anomalies are rapidly piling up again.  The pattern is readily apparent and given the facts at hand, Occam's Razor increasingly suggests a false flag.  I don't understand why anyone finds it hard to believe there are elements in the US government who don't hesitate to murder US citizens, given that the Obama administration openly asserts its legal right to kill citizens at will without due process.

Let's engage in a little outlandish legal conjecture and assume that the shootings were real.  What, one wonders, would have prevented the administration from legally placing the children of Sandy Hook elementary school on its secret kill list and then ordering their assassination?

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209 Comments:

1 – 200 of 209 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Log January 04, 2013 2:17 PM  

Suppose it is a false flag operation. What would you propose doing about it?

Anonymous Daniel January 04, 2013 2:18 PM  

Nothing. I think it is safe to assume that they are on it, with tiny, smiling hearts dotting the ends of the strikethroughs.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 January 04, 2013 2:21 PM  

What better way to promote gun control than to have psychopaths shoot up white, upscale kindergarteners just before Christmas?

Just something to consider.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 2:22 PM  

During prohibition the federal government killed 10,000 american citizens by deliberately poisoning alcohol.

and some of you think they wouldn't shoot up some kindergarten kids?

Anonymous Gen. Kong January 04, 2013 2:28 PM  

Log asks:
Suppose it is a false flag operation. What would you propose doing about it?

Expose it. Yes, I fully understand that the idiocracy who listens to the Ministry of Truth jujubox 24 x 7 x 365 is beyond all hope of even a half-awakening. I am likewise fully aware that even if a government agent came out and confessed to the crime, the "conservative" idiocracy would continue to insist on taking the regime's account as gospel - as they do with Waco to this day. Nevertheless it is important that the truth be recorded, just for its own sake.

Anonymous Giraffe January 04, 2013 2:28 PM  

Holy Crap Nate.

Did not know that.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2010/02/the_chemists_war.html

From government friendly slate, no less.

Anonymous JoeTV January 04, 2013 2:28 PM  

I thought the initial reports said he had two Glock handguns.

Then reports said AR-15...

Now (buried) reports saying it was a shotgun.

But the the MEDIA NARRATIVE is already said. "Assault Rifles and their owners must be destroyed." Do your part, citizen...

Anonymous Porky? January 04, 2013 2:28 PM  

What the hell did I just watch?

Anonymous Stickwick January 04, 2013 2:30 PM  

But what about those grief-stricken parents?

Holy crap. Did they recruit this guy from community theater?

Anonymous Anonymous January 04, 2013 2:31 PM  

The reason for the "inexplicable anomalies" isnt because there are anomalies, its because of the press.

To get the "scoop" reporters throw whatever they think will fit thier narrative against a wall and see what sticks. Pre internet, they could easily get away with this because dozens of reporters would write conflicting stories, one of them would eventually be proven "right" by the facts, and then that reporter was awarded the "scoop", while the rest of the guesses and outright fabrications quietly dissappeared down the memory hole. With the internet, there is no longer a memory hole, but the press hasnt changed how it writes a story. The anomalies are the fabrications of the press, and we have given journalists prestige and power by assuming they report "news" and wont lie to us. So when we see conflicting stories by journalists, it confuses us because we are conditioned to believe each story. When you understand that the "news Media" is just another arm of the "entertainment media" you understand that they can be pretty much dismissed along with your thoughts that somehow batman will show up and save you from being mugged. ( or a cop saving you from being mugged for that matter ;))

John VI

Anonymous LongTooth January 04, 2013 2:31 PM  

What ever became of the person pulled out of the woods and claiming he had nothing to do with the shooting?

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 2:32 PM  

"Holy Crap Nate.

Did not know that."

I am pleased to have shared the knowledge... but honestly... I am thoroughly disappointed that an Ilk regular didn't know this.

Blogger CR106 January 04, 2013 2:34 PM  

How about writing up an executive summary of the glaring inconsistencies and presenting it at your Congress Critter's next town hall meeting? Ask him or her what is going on and why basic evidentiary rules aren't being followed. Ask them why initial reports talked about a second shooter in the woods, but then disappeared from all stories.

Did anyone see the video of the medical examiner? He's on tape saying exclusively that all of the wounds were from "the long rifle." Which was in the trunk of his car. Oops.

Blogger The Deuce January 04, 2013 2:35 PM  

As I understand it, the latest version story is that Lanza used the Bushmaster in the shooting, even though he also had two handguns with him that he didn't use, and that he left a shotgun in his trunk. So there were four weapons in total, and he did have a Bushmaster, but it wasn't the weapon in the trunk. I don't believe it was a false flag, but I'm pretty skeptical that the reports we have now are accurate, simply because the media's reporting of the event up till now have been so atrocious.

Anonymous Giraffe January 04, 2013 2:37 PM  

In my defense, that is not something they will teach you at public school. I am sure I wouldn't have forgotten.

Anonymous Jason January 04, 2013 2:41 PM  

Vox, you're going off the deep end here. What would be the purpose of the American government's supporting the mowing down of innocent children? What relation does it have to "the war on terror"? Furthermore, what government officials would be stupid enough to risk criminal persecution to support it? Yeah, it's possible, but it is remarkably unlikely. Occam's razor would suggest that you're missing the obvious.
You're too smart for this, Vox.

Anonymous Tad January 04, 2013 2:47 PM  

@Vox Day

What, one wonders, would have prevented the administration from placing the children of Sandy Hook elementary school on its secret kill list?

1. There's no evidence the administration wants to kill children

2. The administration is clearly filled with people with strong moral values

3. Very little to gain by murdering 26 people

4. Obama doesn't need a gun control debate

5. Clearly it was little green men who did the shooting along with help from the grassy knoll shooter from '63 and with technical help from Dick Cheney and the Secret Service from the lost city of Atlantis

Anonymous ben January 04, 2013 2:47 PM  

I'm with The Deuce, I highly doubt a false flag operation. More likely just standard journalist incompetence. The Bushmaster was used in the shooting, the shotgun was left in the car, and that's pretty much that.

I have been a little concerned about the original reports that the Bushmaster was left in the car and that the shooting was carried out with handguns. Then the story suddenly changed. Could be they changed the story to help promote the AWB, but I think this is unlikely.

Anonymous Tad January 04, 2013 2:48 PM  

@Vox Day

Occam's Razor increasingly suggests a false flag.

Actually, an Occam's Razor account would suggest that there was simply mis reporting.

Anonymous re allow anonymous comments January 04, 2013 2:49 PM  

Bill Ayers proposed that SDS start attacking elementary school children for political purposes back in the 1960s. They balked and kicked him out and he formed Weather Underground.

Where is Bill Ayers now?

Anonymous Stilicho January 04, 2013 2:50 PM  

Hard to tell what the weapon from the trunk is. It does look like a shotgun in that grainy video. It definitely is NOT an AR-15.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 2:50 PM  

"So there were four weapons in total, and he did have a Bushmaster, but it wasn't the weapon in the trunk"

No.

The cops and the coroner said that the wounds came from a long gun... the cops said that the long gun was an AR-15.

But no one ever say the AR-15 was found with Adam's body. In fact... they said the only weapons found with the body were the pistols.

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 2:51 PM  

Jamie Foxx, a close friend of Obama, says he wants to kill all the white people, and less than a week later, the women and children of Sandy Hook are massacred. Just saying.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 2:52 PM  

It goes like this:

- wounds caused by an AR-15
- Adam found dead only with pistols
- no AR-15 found on site.
- second "person of interest" is "questioned and let go".

thus...

The second shooter had the AR... and did the executing... then was feretted away by authorities.

Anonymous VD January 04, 2013 2:54 PM  

What would be the purpose of the American government's supporting the mowing down of innocent children?

The disarming of the American people. Hence the huge push for banning firearms, particularly the sort of weapons that were falsely reported as being used at the school.

Actually, an Occam's Razor account would suggest that there was simply mis reporting.

Not when all the reported wounds were supposedly from a nonexistent "long rifle".

Anonymous VD January 04, 2013 2:57 PM  

Furthermore, did Lanza's mother even own an AR-15? Or a Bushmaster? Where is the paper trail behind this missing "long rifle" that caused the wounds?

Anonymous Quinten T. January 04, 2013 2:57 PM  

1. Django Unchained comes out about mass shooting white people.
2. There's a guy in the woods.
3. The guy in the woods = Jamie Fox.

My logic-fu you.

Anonymous Daniel January 04, 2013 3:01 PM  

Hey, aside from the non-existent assault weapon,the non-existent student victim (Lily Gaubert as Allison Wyatt), the non-existent teacher/mom, the non-existent other shooter suspect saying "It wasn't me, it wasn't me" and the non-existent acting chops of the government's dinner theater troupe, I guess it is still possible that there's a school called Sandy Hook.

Anonymous Leatherwing January 04, 2013 3:02 PM  

What would be the purpose of the American government's supporting the mowing down of innocent children?

The disarming of the American people. Hence the huge push for banning firearms, particularly the sort of weapons that were falsely reported as being used at the school.


It wouldn't take top level officials to make this decision, just a few rogue members of some Alphabet agency.

Anonymous Daniel January 04, 2013 3:03 PM  

Furthermore, did Lanza's mother even own an AR-15? Or a Bushmaster? Where is the paper trail behind this missing "long rifle" that caused the wounds?

Dunno. Ask the White Plains Journal News...or one of their armed guards.

Anonymous VD January 04, 2013 3:05 PM  

I guess it is still possible that there's a school called Sandy Hook.

(laughs) You won the thread. Definitely.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner January 04, 2013 3:06 PM  

USSA.

Toast.

Put a fork in it.

Dun.

Just another shitty Empire of Lies.

Anonymous Starbuck January 04, 2013 3:07 PM  

"Holy Crap Nate.

Did not know that."

I am pleased to have shared the knowledge... but honestly... I am thoroughly disappointed that an Ilk regular didn't know this.



I knew that. I know lots of things, just like everyone else. I usually don't share because people don't believe me. Amongst my family and friends... They are convinced I am a loon. When something happens that I said was going to happen, I usually get dark stares and then more denial.

Anonymous Stephen J. January 04, 2013 3:09 PM  

"The pattern is readily apparent and given the facts at hand, Occam's Razor increasingly suggests a false flag."

I prefer Hanlon's Razor: "Never ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence."

Poisoning alcohol and ordering drone hits both have a necessary advantage of impersonal distance between actor and victim. For Sandy Hook to be a false flag we not only have to assume the existence of secret operatives willing to kill Mrs. Lanza at her house, steal her weapons, kidnap Adam, drive him to the school, kill him and the other children and teachers, all without ever being observed once or leaving any evidence that not a single person in the local justice or media establishments could dig up -- but we have to assume that there are agents psychopathic enough to kill women and children of their own nation and culture personally at close range, yet disciplined enough to only do so on government command, competent enough to get away with it utterly perfectly, and reliable enough never to leak to the press about it.

I didn't buy that argument when the Truthers made it about 9/11, and I don't buy it now just because the politics have changed.

Anonymous Stilicho January 04, 2013 3:11 PM  

So, when will the feds start tampering with ammo, bolts, chambers, etc.?

I really am going to have to open that gunsmithing business.

Anonymous Stephen J. January 04, 2013 3:12 PM  

Besides, who in the government would have thought to stick Ryan Lanza's ID in Adam's pocket, thus causing the initial burst of panicked misidentification? Government workers aren't generally that imaginative.

Anonymous Stilicho January 04, 2013 3:13 PM  

but we have to assume that there are agents psychopathic enough to kill women and children of their own nation and culture personally at close range, yet disciplined enough to only do so on government command

Seriously? You've never heard of Waco? Ruby Ridge?

Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 3:18 PM  

Why, if this is a false flag, is in so inept?

Anonymous Stephen J. January 04, 2013 3:18 PM  

Waco and Ruby Ridge were hardly covert operations that were carried out perfectly and undetectably (hence my caveat about "competence"), and both were against active and open resistance by hostile organizations.

Shooting at whatever pops up in front of you when you've just stormed an armed compound is very different from walking unchallenged into a quiet peaceful school and opening fire.

Anonymous Matt January 04, 2013 3:21 PM  

Seriously? You've never heard of Waco? Ruby Ridge?

Waco was burned by a machine, at a distance. Vicki Weaver was shot behind a door.

Obviously both events are inexcusable, but they aren't the same thing as deliberately and systematically shooting kids one at a time.

Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 3:26 PM  

1. There's no evidence the administration wants to kill children
Not after they are born. Oh, wait, Obama did want to kill abortion survivors.

2. The administration is clearly filled with people with strong moral values
Good one.

3. Very little to gain by murdering 26 people
Maybe they are just getting started.

4. Obama doesn't need a gun control debate
He needs something if he wants to disarm the people. Clearly he isn't there yet.

5. Clearly it was little green men who did the shooting along with help from the grassy knoll shooter from '63 and with technical help from Dick Cheney and the Secret Service from the lost city of Atlantis

If they wanted technical help they'd ask Horiuchi.

Anonymous Van January 04, 2013 3:26 PM  

Waco/Ruby Ridge: top level staff doesn't like challenge to authority, sends ground level personnel in w/ exaggerated story about threat posed by "terrorists" or whatever term. Expectation is surrender to show of superior force; expectation is wrong, ground level personnel sleep at night believing they're the good guys enforcing legitimate law.

Sandy Hook would require a psychopath as described above. Not discounted completely, but a tougher pill to swallow. The inconsistencies are explainable by an irresponsible media running with the story, without clarifying or confirming reports, compoinded by a (likely) complete lack of knowledge about firearms from the reporters.

The vanishing 2nd suspect is odd, but not entirely unexplainable.

The most ridiculous comment, though, would be the one about the administration clearly being filled with morally upright people.

Anonymous Stilicho January 04, 2013 3:27 PM  

Shooting at whatever pops up in front of you when you've just stormed an armed compound is very different from walking unchallenged into a quiet peaceful school and opening fire.

That's hardly what happened at either Waco or Ruby Ridge. In Waco, agents set fire to the compound and watched it burn the women and children inside. At Ruby Ridge, a sniper calmly murdered Randy Weaver's wife. You underestimate what some police thugs are capable of when they have the cover of following orders and they know their actions will be defended by the system.

Now it's true that neither Waco nor Ruby Ridge were covert. This is primarily due to initial failures by the cops involved and the fact that the victims resisted.

Anonymous Josh January 04, 2013 3:29 PM  

Why, if this is a false flag, is in so inept?

Because the government tends to be incompetent.

Anonymous Stilicho January 04, 2013 3:29 PM  

Obviously both events are inexcusable, but they aren't the same thing as deliberately and systematically shooting kids one at a time.

Meh. We've agreed on principle, now we're just haggling over price.

Anonymous dh January 04, 2013 3:29 PM  

> Did anyone see the video of the medical examiner? He's on tape saying exclusively
> that all of the wounds were from "the long rifle." Which was in the trunk of his
> car. Oops.

I think that's assuming facts not in evidence:

1. The weapon in the trunk of the car is what it is. But do we know he didnt have a different rifle in with him?

2. Is it possible that the medical examiner made a mistake?

I would not immediately assume that because the media got stuff wrong that there is a false flag/cover-up/scam going on. I would assume, rather, that most people in the media don't have any clue the difference between a magazine and a clip, a semi-automatic versus automatic weapon, or even a difference between different types of handguns.

Also, I wouldn't assume that the media hasn't exaggerated, made-up, or otherwise screwed up the reporting of basic facts of the case.

Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 3:31 PM  

Because the government tends to be incompetent.

I know. But then the conspiracy should be exposed sooner or later.

Anonymous VD January 04, 2013 3:31 PM  

we have to assume that there are agents psychopathic enough to kill women and children of their own nation and culture personally at close range, yet disciplined enough to only do so on government command, competent enough to get away with it utterly perfectly, and reliable enough never to leak to the press about it.

No, I would assume that an Arab terrorist or some other American enemy was brought in to do the shooting in order to provide plausible deniability.

Anonymous VD January 04, 2013 3:34 PM  

Is it possible that the medical examiner made a mistake?

Between the holes made by a rifle that shoots long high-speed bullets with a small circumference and handguns that shoot stubby bullets with a larger circumference? Even I could tell the difference.

Anonymous Dan in Tx January 04, 2013 3:36 PM  

Kind of beat me to it Vox. The shooting was efficient enough however I was gonna throw my vote to it having been subcontracted out to Mossad but that's just conjecture on my part.

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 3:37 PM  

I watched the video of the police removing the long gun from the trunk, and what is shown appears to be a shotgun, probably a .410. Clearly it's not anything from the Armalite family.

But here's what jumped out at me: the shooting happened mid morning. By mid-day the press was reporting that an AR-15 had been used in the shooting and that AR-15 cases were everywhere. This video appears to be taken at night, long after the initial press reports went out that an AR-15 was used. The black car shown in the video bears a resemblance to a black Honda that's been claimed by the media to be the car recovered from the scene that supposedly belonged to Nancy Lanza.

But, I just found articles claiming that the car taken from the scene wasn't even registered to Nancy Lanza but to some guy named Christopher Rodia. I have no idea whether or not this claim is accurate.

In short, none of us have any idea what happened there. It is irrefutable that the media has twisted the facts. The state of Connecticut hasn't attempted to set the record straight, and even if they did, the idea of believing anything the government says is just as laughable as the idea of trusting the media.

Anonymous Daniel January 04, 2013 3:40 PM  

Giraffe
Why, if this is a false flag, is in so inept?

It isn't any more inept than any other suspicious (but likely) false flag operation. These things don't need to be perfect, after all. They need to be plausible enough.

Besides, this level of ineptitude isn't that great. After all, they just need to it to be competent enough to convince the majority of the bell curve.
That's a low bar of competence.

Keep in mind that Operation Northwoods, had it gone forward, would have looked ridiculous from the outset, and the Pentagon knew it. They didn't care: it would have worked.

NATO's false flag operations to implicate the communists in Italy back in the 60s were specifically targeted at innocents, women and children, far removed from the political game in order to naturally cover up inconsistencies with grief and rage, and to inspire natural, automatic support of the masses.

Those dumb anthrax attacks on the Democrats that made sure the Patriot Act got passed were the same thing.

They don't care that a handful of marginally intelligent adults smell a rat, and then prove it later in their allegedly "inept" false flag operation. It is fakery, after all. Even the best ones will leave taletells in the shadows. They simply don't have to be executed to perfection. By the time the intrepid have the answers, the stupid have forgotten the question.

Remember, the audience that believes Breaking Amish, Jersey Shore and Real Housewives is real and the audience the government is playing to...is one and the same.

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 3:45 PM  

@dh

"1. The weapon in the trunk of the car is what it is. But do we know he didnt have a different rifle in with him?"

That's one plausible explanation at this point.

"2. Is it possible that the medical examiner made a mistake?"

It's conceivable that a medical examiner could mistake the entrance and exit wounds inflicted by a 5.7mm pistol for a .223 rifle. Even then, the wound channels should appear quite different, but this would be fairly easy for a medical examiner to miss if they were not experienced with examining gunshot wounds or if they had a .45 in their mouth while they were performing the autopsy. It would be very difficult to confuse a wound from a 9mm pistol (or higher caliber) with a wound from a .223.

Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 3:45 PM  

Between the holes made by a rifle that shoots long high-speed bullets with a small circumference and handguns that shoot stubby bullets with a larger circumference? Even I could tell the difference.

The way you worded your response makes me think you would get it wrong.

Anonymous Edjamacator January 04, 2013 3:47 PM  

2. The administration is clearly filled with people with strong moral values

This is hilarious if spoken seriously.

Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 3:50 PM  

They don't care that a handful of marginally intelligent adults smell a rat, and then prove it later in their allegedly "inept" false flag operation. It is fakery, after all. Even the best ones will leave taletells in the shadows. They simply don't have to be executed to perfection. By the time the intrepid have the answers, the stupid have forgotten the question.

I guess the fact that they can get away with things like Fast and Furious should give me a clue.

But I still have a hard time believing it without something definitive.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 04, 2013 3:54 PM  

What, one wonders, would have prevented the administration from legally placing the children of Sandy Hook elementary school on its secret kill list and then ordering their assassination?

1. Common decency. Oh, wait...

2. Respect for the sanctity of life. Doh, right...

3. Fear of retribution? Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?


Besides, who in the government would have thought to stick Ryan Lanza's ID in Adam's pocket, thus causing the initial burst of panicked misidentification? Government workers aren't generally that imaginative.

No, but they could bungle something like that.

I'm generally not in the conspiracy theory boat, and for this one, I'm not convinced, but neither do I reject the possibility. Remember, this is the administration who's first attempt at gun grabbing was to traffic weapons to Mexican narco gangs in the expectation those guns would be used to kill people and thus generate momentum for gun control. Clearly they are not above causing the sort of mayem government properly exists to prevent in an effort to increase their power. And this is the administration of "never let a crisis go to waste."

I mean, these are desciples of Alinsky and Cloward-Piven. Creating suffering in order to pose as saviors is their stock in trade. As far as I'm concerned, the question isn't whether Obama, Holder, Jarrett et al are capable of orderding such a thing (they are), it's whether their flunkies are capable of carrying it out.

And even if they are in general incompetent at such a thing, it's possible they could get lucky.

Anonymous Stilicho January 04, 2013 3:56 PM  


But I still have a hard time believing it without something definitive.


Fair enough, but don't let that get in the way of disbelieving the official story. Just because there isn't definitive proof of a false flag op, does not mean that they are telling the truth about what actually happened.

Anonymous Daniel January 04, 2013 3:56 PM  

Not to be ghoulish, either, but there are thousands of photographs available to test your weapon identification skills, both entrance and exit wounds. The difference between rifle and handgun, especially with that many targets in similar conditions, is easily identified (there are outliers, and modifying factors, of course, but this one has way too many victims to screw up the autopsies that badly on accident).

The only difference between adults and children is that children have a higher percentage of their total body mass affected.

I recommend that most people not do this. It will depress most. At least I hope it would.

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 3:58 PM  

"...the question isn't whether Obama, Holder, Jarrett et al are capable of orderding such a thing (they are), it's whether their flunkies are capable of carrying it out."

They were willing to conduct Rapido y Furioso but were clearly unable to carry it out properly. But that didn't stop them from trying.

Anonymous Anonymous January 04, 2013 4:00 PM  

Nate please update your blog more often. Never disappointed when you comment here. Thanks.

N5

Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 4:02 PM  

Fair enough, but don't let that get in the way of disbelieving the official story. Just because there isn't definitive proof of a false flag op, does not mean that they are telling the truth about what actually happened.

Most of the story so far is the media making shit up and I have heard very little in the way of the "official story".

It is frustrating because I feel like we can't know anything for sure.

Anonymous RINO January 04, 2013 4:04 PM  

The disarming of the American people. Hence the huge push for banning firearms, particularly the sort of weapons that were falsely reported as being used at the school.

Even if we assume every mass shooting is a false flag none of them have been effective in reaching that goal. Columbine didn't work, Aurora didn't work, fast and furious didn't work. I find it hard to believe that the scary overlords haven't noticed that gun sales are through the roof under Obama and wouldn't be able to piece together that the trend would go into overdrive after something like Newtown.

There are liberals who are always going to run to the media and demand gun control after shootings like that. So one can conclude that every mass shooting is a false flag before it even happens?

Anonymous Daniel January 04, 2013 4:07 PM  

I guess the fact that they can get away with things like Fast and Furious should give me a clue.

Bingo. Don't ever forget that we are dealing with lies, here. Obviously they won't hold together (only the truth ever does that). Fortunately for the liars, they aren't depending on truth seekers to believe them. They are depending on sheep to believe them, and when the truth seekers point out the inconsistencies, they have a built in audience of shocked sheep who call the truth seekers crazy retarded fools.

It isn't like it is a fair fight. So they are "inept" because a) they can be and accomplish their aims and b) they have to be (are advancing something other than the truth) so they just have to set these convenient catastrophes up to a convenient level.

Think about it: Pete Williams seemed downright idiotic to fall for Abscam - it was that ridiculous [Penthouse's Bob Guccione thought it was nuts when they approached him - it was that blatant.] but it was enough. All people are thinking about are the victims and their thespian parents - it seems cruel and "unthinkable" to discuss the inconsistencies and point out the possibility of an alternate story.

It is difficult to chalk it all up to misreporting.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 04, 2013 4:08 PM  

They were willing to conduct Rapido y Furioso but were clearly unable to carry it out properly. But that didn't stop them from trying.

Yes, which basically answers the question about what ought to happen. If someone is shooting at you, shoot back, even if they're a lousy shot. If you let them keep shooting, even a graduate of the Imperial Stormtooper Marksmanship Academy will eventually hit you.

Anonymous Stilicho January 04, 2013 4:08 PM  

Most of the story so far is the media making shit up and I have heard very little in the way of the "official story".

The "official story" will likely be whatever portions of the media's made-up stories stick to the wall after they throw them at it. QED.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 04, 2013 4:10 PM  

Or rather than "shoot back" perhaps I should stay "stop them." Tackling them and taking the gun away from them is a useful way to get them to stop shooting at you.

Anonymous kh123 January 04, 2013 4:16 PM  

Excerpts from a news report I ended up saving before it was altered. Note that the original's timestamp was 4:40; the current version has it at 6:10 on the same day. Haven't quoted the inclusions, mostly about Lanza's mental state. Make what you will of the following:

CBS News: December 14, 2012 4:40 PM:

New Jersey State Police have Lanza’s older brother, 24-year-old Ryan, in custody in Hoboken. Officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on the record about the unfolding investigation.

A law enforcement official told The Associated Press that Adam Lanza’s girlfriend and another friend were now missing in New Jersey."


This last paragraph is now missing from the original.

Cont'd:

"The Associated Press quoted an official as saying the suspected gunman drove to the school in his mother’s car. Another law enforcement source earlier told CBS News that a Sig Sauer, a Glock 9 and a Bushmaster rifle were found at the scene. Preliminary information showed that Lanza purchased the weapons legally."

This last line now reads: "The AP reports that the three weapons found at the scene were registered to his slain mother."

Cont'd:

"CBS News reports that a potential second suspect was in custody and that SWAT was investigating the home of the suspect. It was not known if that alleged second suspect fired any of the shots in the massacre. [Next two lines are now missing in the article:] CBS News’ John Miller reported that authorities went into the suspect’s home after seeing what appeared to be a body inside. Vance said that a deceased adult’s body was found in a Newtown home connected to Lanza."

The following is still in the article:

"A witness tells WFSB-TV that a second man was taken out of the woods in handcuffs wearing a black jacket and camouflage pants and telling parents on the scene, “I did not do it.”

NPR reported Connecticut will reach out to other states for help with autopsies because they don’t have enough medical examiners.

Two students and a teacher injured in the shooting andwere taken to Dansbury Hospital, spokeswoman Diane Burke told WCBS-TV."


This last line is interesting. I may be wrong on this, but I'd figure medical records for living victims as opposed to deceased would be treated differently in terms of disclosure to the press and public, since theirs is not an ongoing murder investigation so much as it is an assault or attempted murder case.

Anonymous Daniel January 04, 2013 4:17 PM  

There are liberals who are always going to run to the media and demand gun control after shootings like that. So one can conclude that every mass shooting is a false flag before it even happens?

Not at all. Simply take the known false flags in history and compare them to what they are intended to replicate. Once you notice the inconsistencies of the false flags vs. their authentic corollary, you can begin to notice which current events differ from what one would normally expect.

You can't conclude anything until the evidence starts to be weighed.

OpenID whoresoftheinternet January 04, 2013 4:21 PM  

I called this a Reichstag Fire when it first happened. I didn't mean at the time that I thought it was "faked" or a false flag---indeed, no one really knows if the actual Reichstag Fire was a false-flag or a genuine act of communists. I was merely referring to the use of such incidents by oppressive governments to force their agenda---as the Nazis did, as Obama has done. After all, "never let a crisis go waste."

But given that, at the time of the shooting, Benghazi would not go away, and the administration had resorted to pretending to be too sick to testify about it(Clinton), this could very well have been a false flag. Obama hates whitey anyway, setting up a mass murder of white children as a decoy wouldn't bother him.

Also, let's not forget, as Ann Coulter has said, that the ONLY logical explanation for Fast & Furious is that Holder (and therefore Obama) WANTED the guns lost and to show up in some murders to "prove" how we needed more gun control.

This administration, being totalitarian in nature, desperately wants Chicago-style gun control to disarm the populace and create a Big Chief form of government (that love display with Chavez is telling). However, guns are too popular in the abstract. So setting up disasters/murders with guns would allow them to "pick a target, polarize it" etc. and "not let a crisis go to waste.

At the very least, tt wouldn't surprise me if a schizophrenic kid with a "right wing" (i.e. a preparation-interested, socially isolated) mother might have been been given some "encouragement" by a few Chicago-style handlers, given a few guns, and told to mess some things up. Communist spies in the 1960s used such tactics to create social chaos to "prove" how left wing thought was correct.

Anonymous Koanic January 04, 2013 4:24 PM  

I prefer not to blame on conspiracy what can be explained by drugs, suffering and incompetence at this point.

But I admit we may be at the "OKC stage" - somethings' afoot but the obvious 9/11 hasn't gone off yet.

Anonymous Koanic January 04, 2013 4:34 PM  

The most interesting thing is the bullet hole mismatch. But it seems to early to say anything for sure about that.

There does seem to be some anti-gun massaging going on after the fact. That doesn't mean the event itself was planned.

But here's a hypothetical. The 9/11 squad uses psych record access to find crazies, uses paper trails to find ones ready to break, and patsies them. Maybe. I'm not buying it yet, but it's conceivable.

Anonymous ENthePeasant January 04, 2013 4:42 PM  

"They are convinced I am a loon. When something happens that I said was going to happen, I usually get dark stares and then more denial."

I'm 60 years old and the turd in the punch bowl at most family gatherings. Get used to it. Eventually they'll just quit arguing with you. But they will never change their minds or give up their long held beliefs... and that ties back into what conspiracies need to work. Starbuck's family is there like a big lump of clay ready to be molded as the conspirators see fit. However, there's something even more important to make these things work. Tad would never believe Obama did it. If he was the investigator at the Reichstag fire there's no way he would assume that a mentally handicapped communist bricklayer would be set up by his government. Of course that's exactly the kind of person that governments, both Fascist and communists, use for such acts. But what's required to make a false flag operation successful is plenty of average useful idiots who can easily have their opinions swayed, and one particularly dense useful idiot who might actually believe that his German Speaking handler is a communist. There will be plenty of miscues, mistakes, and flat out blunders, along the way to a successful conspiracy. But if people believe hard enough then then obvious discrepancies won't matter.

Anonymous Anonymous January 04, 2013 4:44 PM  

This should help explain things a bit :)

http://radioviceonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/media-guide-firearms.jpg

Anonymous ck January 04, 2013 4:49 PM  

Vox, I love your blog, and I live in Sandy Hook, Newtown. Let me just say that the Sandy Hook shootings did occur, however, the media has and will continue to get things wrong. Nobody in town trusts the MSM, nor do they want to talk to the MSM.

Let me also point out that there was much confusion on the ground that day. I and a number of other fathers who stood outside our kid's private school as the events unfolded and we listened to police scanners. Within an hour of the shooting the cops were looking for another suspect who apparently escaped into the woods near Sandy Hook Elementary. Because this apparent suspect was said to be on foot, according to the police dialogue, we waited outside to make sure no nut job approached our school. Eventually, a few hours later the police concluded their search of the woods by foot and helo and assumed that there must have been only one person, Lanza, involved in the shooting. According to kids in the neighborhood who witnessed the event first hand, yet escaped, there was only one shooter from what they saw. Of course, in the fog of war, it's difficult to see everything, especially for first graders.

Interestingly, yet never reported because the MSM can't get a scoop from anyone here, that same day other private schools in Newtown went into a separate lock-down with police roaming their schools at 3pm that same day due to another guy calling in a threat. Whoever that was, was obviously diabolical. The Sunday after the tragedy, somebody called making a threat to St Rose Church saying the job hadn't been finished.

From this, there are many questions.

As for the guy smiling at the press conference about his daughter, I can attest that he's no actor. Also, although his smiling is strange, he's a Mormon. Mormon's have interesting ways of handling death.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 4:51 PM  

People: Ask yourself this...

Have you seen the murder weapon? Have you actually laid eyes on the AR15 that did the shooting?

No.

You haven't.

Why?

There is only one explanation... you haven't seen it... because they don't have it.

Anonymous Axe Head January 04, 2013 4:52 PM  

USA: Under Satan's Administration.

Anonymous Athor Pel January 04, 2013 4:54 PM  

" Nate January 04, 2013 2:32 PM

"Holy Crap Nate.

Did not know that."

I am pleased to have shared the knowledge... but honestly... I am thoroughly disappointed that an Ilk regular didn't know this."



I had forgotten about it. But I read so much of this crap that it all starts balling up, katamari damacy style, in my mind.

I got a good one.

How about military bio-weapon testing by releasing germ warfare agents into the air off the coast of San Francisco then monitoring the folks that showed up in the area's hospitals. The particles were carried by the wind into town and quite far inland.

I'm only describing one instance, there were others. Read up on the syphilis study in Alabama starting in 1932.

Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 4:55 PM  

There is only one explanation... you haven't seen it... because they don't have it.

Dunno, Nate. We have seen Sig's and Glocks, but have we seen THE Sig and Glock? Have we seen any of the weapons used?

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 4:57 PM  

After Va Tech... after columbine... they paraded the guns out as soon as they could.

Anonymous Athor Pel January 04, 2013 5:01 PM  

" Koanic January 04, 2013 4:34 PM

The most interesting thing is the bullet hole mismatch. But it seems to early to say anything for sure about that.

There does seem to be some anti-gun massaging going on after the fact. That doesn't mean the event itself was planned.

But here's a hypothetical. The 9/11 squad uses psych record access to find crazies, uses paper trails to find ones ready to break, and patsies them. Maybe. I'm not buying it yet, but it's conceivable.
"





What is really funny is when the shooters are patients of doctors involved with CIA mind-control/brain-washing/interrogation research. As in, on staff at institutions known to be recipients of CIA money and an author of papers on the subject.



Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 5:01 PM  

A law enforcement source told CBS News that Adam Lanza had three weapons with him during the attack: Two handguns (a Sig Sauer and a Glock), and a Bushmaster .223 assault rifle; spent shells were found in the school. Those three weapons were registered to his mother.

There was also a fourth weapon (a long gun) found in the car he drove to the school.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559395/conn-school-shooter-had-4-weapons/

Anonymous Rally January 04, 2013 5:02 PM  

I'll buy false flag when the survivors of Sandy Hook start telling us that Lanza does not look like the real shooter.

Though I suppose they could be intimidated into silence, or in on the plot.

Blogger RobertT January 04, 2013 5:02 PM  

"Why, if this is a false flag, is in so inept?"

When you are running the investigation, the news coverage and everything else, you don't have to be good.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 5:17 PM  

"I'll buy false flag when the survivors of Sandy Hook start telling us that Lanza does not look like the real shooter."

You're assuming that someone that saw the real shooter actually survived.

Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 5:17 PM  

What is really funny is when the shooters are patients of doctors involved with CIA mind-control/brain-washing/interrogation research. As in, on staff at institutions known to be recipients of CIA money and an author of papers on the subject.

Ah, so it was Jason Bourne. We are all screwed.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 5:18 PM  

"A law enforcement source told CBS News that Adam Lanza had three weapons with him during the attack: Two handguns (a Sig Sauer and a Glock), and a Bushmaster .223 assault rifle; spent shells were found in the school. Those three weapons were registered to his mother."

Those same law enforement officers originally reported that they only found Lanza with 2 handguns. no rifles.

Splain.

Anonymous Buckeyecopperhead January 04, 2013 5:25 PM  

That punk could have gone in there and shot up the place with a wooden-stocked, 10-round magazine Ruger 10/22 and the gubmint and media would nonetheless be calling it an AR-15 or even an AK-47, because MSM journalists are retarded and the gubmint is evil.

I imagine a few years from now one of the LEO's at this tragedy may publish a book and the truth will (might) be known, and it will be significantly different from the "official" narrative foisted upon the public. But by then it won't really matter, will it?

Anonymous Porky? January 04, 2013 5:27 PM  

ck: "As for the guy smiling at the press conference about his daughter, I can attest that he's no actor. Also, although his smiling is strange, he's a Mormon. Mormon's have interesting ways of handling death."

Not a single tear.

Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 5:32 PM  

Possible explanation:

1. Mistake in reporting or lie by police.
2. Mistake by reporters. (If I remember though, the police reported it by press conference?)
3. Lon Horiuchi did it, and police didn't get with the program right away.

I don't find it inconceivable that some police officers simply reported the wrong info.

Blogger Hamilton January 04, 2013 5:33 PM  

I had no idea either. I'm not exactly a regular commenter, but regular reader, yes.

Blogger Hamilton January 04, 2013 5:36 PM  

Hear hear!

And Nate has a blog? Name please!

Blogger ajw308 January 04, 2013 5:39 PM  

Waco was burned by a machine, at a distance. Vicki Weaver was shot behind a door.
She was shot while standing behind a screen door holding her child. Can't forget the child. It's for the children.

Anonymous MJ January 04, 2013 5:42 PM  

This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
I am TOTALLY against 'conspiracy', this is a SLOPPY job done by BAD actors.
PERIOD!!!

Anonymous Sawtooth January 04, 2013 5:43 PM  

Did somebody actually mention a federal fighting/enforcement battalion of... gangbangers?
Thats rich. What a way to kick off a weekend on a funny note!

The first thing a 'banger would have to learn is that lowriding droopy drawers are not conductive to rapid mobilization. Pants must be pulled up and belts used.

Another thing; hand guns should be used while holding the handle of the gun in a vertical position, as intended. Shooting in the sideways position only looks cool in rap videos where you don't have to worry about getting your own ass smoked in a real fire fight.

Thirdly; the chronic stays at the crib, no exceptions.



Blogger republicanmother January 04, 2013 5:51 PM  

The 20 minute response time intrigues me. According to Mapquest, the police station is a five minute, two mile drive from the school.

The Newtown Police Department boasts 47 uniformed officers. Perhaps they don't have patrol cars and rely on lame mules to get to their emergencies. I'm tryng to understand how they couldn't go faster than 6 miles an hour to a person shooting up an elementary school.

Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 5:52 PM  

And Nate has a blog? Name please!

He hasn't posted in almost a year, and the last post is about his fantasies about electric spanking machines.

You've been warned.

http://bloggerblaster.blogspot.com/

Anonymous Daniel January 04, 2013 5:53 PM  

One of the comments at the Mormon guy's press conference video is hilarious:

Maybe I'm reaching a bit hard, you tell me. Since the last two major American disasters, as determined by the media, have both been named Sandy, I began to look at the name a little closer. The more I look at the name, the more I see S and Y. So, I searched Satan and Y. The first results kind of shocked me, as I had know fuckin idea who Yahweh was.

Blogger ajw308 January 04, 2013 5:56 PM  

Have we seen any of the weapons used?
I've seen MSM video talking about how the AR is called "The Barbie" gun because of all the accessories for it while showing video of someone removing the stock from a FN SCAR.

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 6:04 PM  

"You're assuming that someone that saw the real shooter actually survived."

I've haven't heard of any survivors who actually saw the shooter's face. So far, only a lady who was hiding under a desk and saw the shooter's feet and a little girl who pretended to be dead.

Anonymous dh January 04, 2013 6:07 PM  

Between the holes made by a rifle that shoots long high-speed bullets with a small circumference and handguns that shoot stubby bullets with a larger circumference? Even I could tell the difference.

1. It has also been reported that the bullets used were frangible. Do you posses the expertise to tell the difference between the different wounds?

2. His quote is full of weseal words. It was a soundbite for media the way I see it. Could be instructive, or could be noise. I am unconviced that a medical examiner, who is not neseccarily a person who is an authority on homocides, is above reproach. Frontline did a great piece on corner's and medical examiner and how the quality of their work is not great (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/post-mortem/things-to-know/how-qualified-is-your-coroner.html).

There is certainly enough media reporting, half-baked analysis, and breathless emotionalism to suggest their isn't a consistent explanation of what happened in this case.

On the front of credibility, there are at least 2 people who were shot but survived - a six year old and a teacher. The teacher has apparently talked to police and was in close range to the shooter when he killed two other administrators at the school.

So, it's pretty hard to see how the conspiracy that VD and others propose could actually happen without somehow having leverage over two people who were shot and survived.

It is a bit ironic that VD will cite testominally evidence of the events of the New Testament, that are thousands of years old, and certainly translated, transcribed, and modified dozens of times, but will apparently dismiss the word of a victim and an eyewitness of the criminal acts themselves.

Anonymous VD January 04, 2013 6:17 PM  

It is a bit ironic that VD will cite testominally evidence of the events of the New Testament, that are thousands of years old, and certainly translated, transcribed, and modified dozens of times, but will apparently dismiss the word of a victim and an eyewitness of the criminal acts themselves.

And these words are where? And they support what is already nonsensical and contradictory information how?

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 6:22 PM  

@dh

The entrance wound from a frangible projectile entering soft tissue shouldn't appear substantially different from a full metal jacketed projectile. If it encounters bone initially, it could be difficult to tell, depending on the bullet construction. I believe typical procedure when dealing with severely fragmented projectiles is to dissect the wound channel, recover the bullet fragments, clean them, and weigh them to estimate the initial bullet mass.

Or you can just look at the headstamps on the spent casings.

Anonymous kh123 January 04, 2013 6:25 PM  

"The 20 minute response time intrigues me. According to Mapquest, the police station is a five minute, two mile drive from the school."

Was out front in the DMV parking lot when some gangsters did a drive-by on the front facade. Police station was on a straight line literally one block down. Took them several minutes to show up.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 6:26 PM  

Look... Fact is... once it became obvious that the econapocalypes was starting sometime around 2015... blogging time was all but eliminated.

I mean its better to spend time preparing than writing about preparing.

I know there is interest and demand... I do intend to blog again... I just... am very... very busy.

Anonymous Anonymous January 04, 2013 6:28 PM  

False flag is too risky. That could bring down everyone.

However, it is possible that they have decided to cover up or change some aspect of the story.

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother January 04, 2013 6:30 PM  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eHv_RhVgfUQ

I can't believe that Mormons are so different that they don't cry when their children are murdered.

Anonymous kh123 January 04, 2013 6:30 PM  

"Those same law enforement officers originally reported that they only found Lanza with 2 handguns. no rifles.

Splain."


No idea. Like I said, make of it what you will.

Although I also think is odd they haven't done the Italian carbine parade in front of the press as of yet.

Are police background checks on registered firearms that quick. Within the first few hours seems, given what the news reported that first day.

Anonymous Todd January 04, 2013 6:34 PM  

The Left easily believes that Bush sent US troops for Iraqi oil to slaughter and to be slaughtered. And 911 looks like a false flag op.

What's 20-30 children to these puppet masters?

"Sandy Hook" shows up on Commissoner Gorden's map in the "Dark Knight Rises" movie at the 1hr 58min mark. It's the only name you can make out on the map and he points to it. "Aurora" on a building earlier in the movie.

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 6:34 PM  

"Although I also think is odd they haven't done the Italian carbine parade in front of the press as of yet."

Maybe it was another Fast & Furious gun.

Anonymous J. Doe January 04, 2013 6:36 PM  

My immediate thought to the news of the shooting was that it was a false flag. A young man shooting up a bunch a little kids like fish in a barrel doesn't fit any kind of psychotic profile.

More likely, after Obama's reelection, the government gun-rabbers wasted no time in planning and executing the most heinous, emotionally charged propaganda ploy, guaranteed to whip up the masses into a feeding frenzy for gun control. They have big plans for the next four years and gun owners are in their way.

Anonymous Todd January 04, 2013 6:37 PM  

Whoops ... the link video does show the Sandy Hook.

Grampa in the photo of Ms. Soto (forget the 'hero' teachers first name) is flashing the old Horned Goat hand sign. Her RIP facebook memorial page was created a few days prior to the event and then quickly took down once discovered.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 6:46 PM  

and...

in the Matrix... Neo's passport expired on 9/11/2001.

Just sayin'

Just. Sayin'.

Blogger Giraffe January 04, 2013 6:51 PM  

The entrance wound from a frangible projectile entering soft tissue shouldn't appear substantially different from a full metal jacketed projectile. If it encounters bone initially, it could be difficult to tell, depending on the bullet construction. I believe typical procedure when dealing with severely fragmented projectiles is to dissect the wound channel, recover the bullet fragments, clean them, and weigh them to estimate the initial bullet mass.

Or you can just look at the headstamps on the spent casings.


Frangible rifle bullets have a lot of energy and dump it immediately. The entrance wounds can be enormous. So called "splash wounds" I've shot [entrance] holes in a deer you can stick your fist into. They make a poor choice for deer because they don't always penetrate. A .223 is a pretty high velocity round. Frangible bullets would be extremely devastating.

Frangible handgun bullets I have no experience with. I suspect they would make a regular entrance wound and then be pretty devastating inside.

Anonymous Todd January 04, 2013 6:54 PM  

There is youtube video of a second suspect caught in the woods by the school. Never heard of what happened to him.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 6:54 PM  

I have buddies that have worked on guys that have been shot with Glasers. little entrance would... then looks like someone turned a blender on inside their body.

devastating isn't the word.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 6:56 PM  

Cop in memphis got shot with .38 special with glaser rounds. lungs per punctured dozens of times in dozens of places... dude drowned in his own blood within seconds.

Anonymous Anonymous January 04, 2013 6:58 PM  

Armed US citizens are not organised, not trained, likely unfit and many are probably obese. Those that would enter a conflict scenario would be easy pickings for superior armed trained personel, drones or other flying killing machines.

Why extreme measures to disarm a threat that isn't really much of a threat at all?

Anonymous Todd January 04, 2013 6:58 PM  

Not just The Matrix. The Patriot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkxR1kuriqU

Supposedly these guys like to foreshadow their events:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/thecoup.asp

Anonymous Hugh January 04, 2013 7:02 PM  

Are there any survivors who saw the shootings?

Anonymous J. Doe January 04, 2013 7:07 PM  

Why extreme measures to disarm a threat that isn't really much of a threat at all?

Not extreme measures, effective measures. And the reason is the same reason every other tyrant has had for disarming the people.

Anonymous Jack amok January 04, 2013 7:12 PM  

So what does "shooting back" look like in this battle? They're using emotional events - crises - to score political points. I think we need to fight back on that front, use the crises to underscore how important it is not to leave everything up to the government.

the NRA had the right approach - use this as an excuse for more guns, not less.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 04, 2013 7:22 PM  

Armed US citizens are not organised, not trained, likely unfit and many are probably obese. Those that would enter a conflict scenario would be easy pickings for superior armed trained personel, drones or other flying killing machines.

Why extreme measures to disarm a threat that isn't really much of a threat at all?


Because armed revolt by the average citizen isn't the threat. The threat is that we won't need them. The threat is that we'd respond to the inevitable increase in crime and disorder that will come with the economic turmoil they are fostering by handling it ourselves instead of granting them additional power.

What they want is for people to respond to crime and fear by begging the government for more protection, must as they want people to respond to hard ecnomic times by begging the government for more welfare.

A disarmed populace faced with armed criminals doesn't have much choice but to submit to the Lord of the Manor.

But an armed populace can go deal with the criminals themselves and tell the Lord of the Manor "No thanks, go home, we've got this under control."

That's the real threat - not that we'd fight them, but that we'd ignore them. They want the power of slavemasters but they don't want to be slavemasters. They want to be beloved Lord Protectors. These are leftists we're talking about. Everyone who lusts for power must have a justification for it, something spun out by their hamsters. For them, the justification is that they're doing good. They need the love of their subjects as much as they need their loyalty.

Anonymous Todd January 04, 2013 7:28 PM  

@ Jack Amok

You're correct.

All politics are local. If a 10's of thousands of small cities (or even whole states) just ignored DC's will there is no way DC could force them too.

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 7:30 PM  

@Giraffe

So much depends on bullet construction and what type of tissue a bullet impacts, and there is wide variation in performance of frangible projectiles.

Here is a publication by ATK studying results from various projectiles on ballistic gelatin, with frangible ammunition shown on page 7. In their test the frangible bullet remained almost fully intact, whereas the FMJ lost about 30% of its mass due to fragmentation.

A deer's hide is a lot tougher than ballistic gelatin, of course, and my experience with frangible projectiles is that they either tend to hold together fairly well or, beyond a certain threshold, fracture dramatically. I've never seen photos of human gunshot wounds from frangible .223, so I'm just making an educated guess as to what the ME would have seen in dh's scenario.

Anonymous Curlytop January 04, 2013 7:34 PM  

stg58/Animal Mother January 04, 2013 6:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eHv_RhVgfUQ

"I can't believe that Mormons are so different that they don't cry when their children are murdered."

No kidding. Or at the very least send in Glenn Beck to give'm pointers. ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9j_SWbpOH0

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 7:34 PM  

"the NRA had the right approach - use this as an excuse for more guns, not less"

Overall the NRA's response was better than I expected, but I wish they would have advocated more strongly for allowing adults in schools to carry instead of advocating for an increased police presence. But yes, I think you're on the right track. We need to loudly tell the left that their policies would only get more people killed, just like we see in Chicago.

Blogger WATYF January 04, 2013 7:48 PM  

Oh geez...

You know, I loathe the gov't as much as the next guy, but as we all know, they aren't geniuses, and it would take a genius to pull off all of these conspiracies that have supposedly happened over the last few decades without a single one of them spilling out into the public eye and embarrassing them into the next millennium.

There is only one explanation... you haven't seen it... because they don't have it.

Thank you, Captain False Dilemma.

If the gov't spent years planning and successfully executing a false flag operation, I'm pretty sure they could go out and BUY any random AR-15 to use as the "show" weapon. Hell, I could do it right now for them in about five minutes on the internet. Are you suggesting that they can't even come up with a fake?

There is a much less sinister explanation for ALL of these things... people are stupid. The cops are dumb. The press is dumb. Never attribute to malice what can more easily be explained by stupidity. The cops were trying to get info out in real time and they misspoke left and right. They even got the name of the shooter wrong and ended up getting the shooter's brother's face plastered all over the news. They got the amount AND the types AND the locations of the guns wrong. Then the press dutifully reported every scrap of info they got without waiting a split-second to verify it because in this day and age, they have to get their stories out as soon as conceivably possible if they don't want to end up playing second fiddle to every blog on the internet.

You can't have it both ways. You can't whine about how OFTEN the press gets things wrong and then point to anomalies in press reporting as some kind of "proof" of a false flag. Take your pick. Either the press is a bunch of incompetent boobs, or contradictory press reports (over the span of weeks) is proof of government conspiracy. Not both.

Those same law enforement officers originally reported that they only found Lanza with 2 handguns. no rifles. Splain.

They're incompetent. Those same cops misidentified the shooter as Adam Lanza's brother. Are you telling me that THAT was a mistake and a deviation from "the script" but this one definitely isn't? If so, how do you know?

The article linked in the OP only verifies what already came out in reports weeks ago... that the gun found in the trunk was NOT an AR (it was a shotgun) and that the guns in the school were an AR and handguns.

If anything, "logic" would dictate that this was a false flag operation by a secret, evil conglomerate of gun manufacturers, because those guys are practically swimming in money right now. :Op

Meanwhile, attempts to take our guns away will go nowhere, despite the non-stop press coverage about how eeeevil guns are (and the concurrent celebrity idiot-fests).

WATYF

Anonymous Godfrey January 04, 2013 7:51 PM  

Somehting indeed is very odd about this whole thing.

The government has always used false flags to gather the support of its subjects for The Empire's wars. Is it really hard to believe that it now uses false flags to gather support for its domestic policy?

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 8:15 PM  

"You know, I loathe the gov't as much as the next guy, but as we all know, they aren't geniuses, and it would take a genius to pull off all of these conspiracies that have supposedly happened over the last few decades without a single one of them spilling out into the public eye and embarrassing them into the next millennium."

Why does it take a genius exactly? Look at Waco. Obviously total morons absolutely CAN dupe the public.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 8:22 PM  

it infuriates me that you morons continually try to play the "it would take super smart people!" card.

It doesn't take smart people. It takes a gullible public that trusts its government. And guess what we have?

Right.

The ATF goes and kills women and kids... and the government's story is... "Oh they were a cult abusing kids." Not one person in the media pointed out that the ATF doesn't handle CHILD ABUSE CASES.

The average person still has no idea that the US government knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor before it happened.

They. Are. Idiots.

It doesn't take a brilliant mind to fool a bunch of idiots!

Blogger WATYF January 04, 2013 8:27 PM  

Why does it take a genius exactly? Look at Waco. Obviously total morons absolutely CAN dupe the public.

Waco could have been accomplished by knocking over a candle... this is just a weeee bit more complex than that... but nice try.

WATYF

Anonymous Myrmecodon January 04, 2013 8:31 PM  

Moammar Kadafi solidified his hold over Libya by instituting zillions of incompetent militias(not hard to find in African Muslim countries) and playing them all off each other, while in between those loyal to him could get whatever was needed done. It's far easier to get away with a conspiracy if all actors are low-IQ types and the media loves you enough not to question them (their testimony is suspect by definition anyway.)

Why would both of these shooters wipe their hard drives and have little to no online presence?

Don't those seeking recognition in massacres tend to be manifesto machines, like the Unabomber?

Why do they always seem to be on the latest drugs?

Where's the autopsy report?

Where's Peter Lanza's human-interest testimony? Does GE's no-taxes thing have anything to do with it?

Is the Administration hitting the 'crony' part of crony capitalism hard?

Is this something like Fast and Furious?

Most of these questions we can't really answer at this point.

But while evil and incompetence rules the land, while broken kids and teenagers on perma-scrambled minds seeking answers make easy marks for those with money and power, and while lies fill the air, such conspiracies become easier and easier to execute.

Therefore preach the fundamentals of Game, HBD, and Christ crucified and resurrected.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 8:33 PM  

"Is it really hard to believe that it now uses false flags to gather support for its domestic policy?"

Considering its happened dozens of times already? Including by this very administration? Fast and Furious was a false flag people.

Anonymous Dr Doom January 04, 2013 8:35 PM  

Seriously, even the average retard with a room temperature I.Q. can smell the stink of this fiasco! Idi Amin, jr. wiping away fake tears on the telly crying about dose po' white folks! HAAH! ROTFL LOL!
That crap sandwich wouldn't cry if his own "real" kids were flamed by an angry mob of voters!
Incompetence should be EXPECTED with anything from this Misadministration. Fast and Furious, Libya, etc., etc., etc.
These are the goofs who made Shrillery take a "fall" so she could get a concussion and probably "forget" all the details of Bhenghazi!
Let's not forget, the strikingly similar mass shootings that took place in the U.K. and Australia just before the Gubmint had to take guns away from the STUPID People! Do these assclowns at the NWO even have BRAINS?
The EXACT SAME SCENARIO as the U.K. and Australian Gun Grabs? Seriously?!
Obviously no IMAGINATION at the U.N.! Using it twice was sloppy, but a third time in America! Yeesh! Talk about reptile brains!

These Gun Grabbity Idiots have to do better than this if they want to win the WAR! You Know What I Mean?

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 8:35 PM  

"Waco could have been accomplished by knocking over a candle... this is just a weeee bit more complex than that... but nice try.

WATYF"

Don't be a moron. Look at the Waco cover up. Look at the way the press was entirely complicit.

The fact is it totally proves your idiotic "brilliant mind" theory out of the water.

As does FLight 800. As does OKC.

Anonymous Tad January 04, 2013 8:36 PM  

I see the tin foil hat crowd is still around in force.

Blogger WATYF January 04, 2013 8:40 PM  

it infuriates me that you morons continually try to play the "it would take super smart people!" card.

It infuriates me that you morons continually try to play the "Two news reports conflict! IT MUST BE GUBMENT CONSPIRACY!!!" card.


It doesn't take smart people.

Wrong. It not only takes a reasonably high intelligence to account for all of the potential variables, but it would most likely also require at least a little luck just so that no unforeseen lose ends pop-up in the process. It would take quite a few elements to pull this off, including, but not limited to: 1) A well trained killer or a fall guy who goes and does exactly what you want. 2) A complete lack of witnesses, both in the building and in the surrounding area who see ANYTHING that contradicts the official story ((let alone who see a second killer or a man being "whisked away" by the cops). This requires making sure you kill everyone in eyeshot (and possibly earshot). 3) A whole bunch of cops and other personnel who are "in on it" and who will never expose the story. 4) A containment procedure that keeps the FREAKING ZOMBIE HORDE of people that were surrounding the school that day (not to mention all of the news choppers) from finding any evidence that disproves the "false flag" story.

The average person still has no idea that the US government knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor before it happened.

Yes, and one piece of information that isn't common knowledge about a military attack 70 years ago equals.... SANDY HOOK IS FALSE FLAG OMG!!!1!!

Logic fail.

WATYF

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 8:48 PM  

"Yes, and one piece of information that isn't common knowledge about a military attack 70 years ago equals.... SANDY HOOK IS FALSE FLAG OMG!!!1!!
"

No one claimed that you blithering idiot.

its called pattern recognition. During prohibition they poisoned alcohol and killed up to 10,000 people. They have in fact poisoned marijuana in the war on drugs. We have literally dozens of false flags to choose from.

So much so... that yes... False Flag should be on the mind of everyone... every time something like this happens.

1) we have whole agencies dedicated to producing these. 2) BZZZT. Wrong. There are contradictions in every single story..and morons like you blow them off. So they clearly do NOT have to worry about any of that. individual witnesses will be supressed or simply discredited as cooks. See Flight 800 for details. 3)No cops or anyone else is required to be in on it beyond the one or two shooters, and their handlers. 4)False. Again... the horde actually helps obfuscate the truth. You're just to much of an idiot to see it.

Blogger WATYF January 04, 2013 8:56 PM  

Don't be a moron. Look at the Waco cover up. Look at the way the press was entirely complicit.

Don't be an idiot. I'm talking about what it takes to actually pull off the event. Waco was a fire. It could have started any number ways by the most simplistic of methods (including accidental) and after that, no effort was needed.

The fact is it totally proves your idiotic "brilliant mind" theory out of the water.

You should review the definition of the word "fact". This argument rests upon the premise that you're right about Waco (and, of course, that if Waco was a conspiracy, that all other conspiracies can't possibly be of a greater difficulty to pull off and keep secret in perpetuity). You're basically saying, "I'm right about Sandy Hook being a conspiracy because I'm right about Waco being a conspiracy".

Your "conclusions" are just a jumbled mess of selection bias piled upon confirmation bias piled upon weak logic piled upon low standards of evidence. And the more conspiracies that you "discover" only serve to "prove" to you that the next major news event is actually "a conspiracy".

But again... I'd love to hear which of the two options you've decided to go with: The press is incompetent and routinely gets details wrong, or mistakes in press reporting in the early hours of a major event proves government conspiracy.

Which is it?

WATYF

Anonymous Shutup, Tad January 04, 2013 9:03 PM  

Shutup, Tad.

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 04, 2013 9:07 PM  

Americans... SPIT IN THEIR EYE... and they call it dew.

"According to Rousseau, the slain teacher’s (Lauren Rousseau) 2004 Honda Civic — parked outside the school — was riddled with bullets when authorities removed the vehicle."

Here.

Partial pic.

Some of you are just really amazing. You can not accept the fact that there are EVIL people within our government. You can not accept that there is a shadow government. You think that government is so incompetent, that it could not pull anything like this off. And then LOOK AT YOURSELVES! You frikken comfortable SLAVES! What is wrong with you?!

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 9:08 PM  

"Don't be an idiot. I'm talking about what it takes to actually pull off the event. Waco was a fire."

Where in I remember... I'm talking to an idiot calvinist.

No. You fucking fucktard. Waco was not "a fire". It was a huge standoff between US citizens and their government that literally lasted days. It started with a botched raid that was covered up... where in the ATF actually SURRENDERED to the citizens... who then allowed the raid team to leave. Then the FBI showed up and actually broke Posse commitatus and employed the US military against US citizens on American soil.

All of which covered up.

It was NOT... "a fire" any more than the moon landing was just "a launch".

Retard.

Anonymous zen0 January 04, 2013 9:17 PM  

Tad has to be the most vacuous, feeble troll that I have seen here.

He is very much like styrofoam. Not a great honking clump of styrofoam that you have to bust up, but more like the little twisty stuff that is similar to macaroni, and blows away in a slight breeze.

I blame the school system.

Anonymous zen0 January 04, 2013 9:20 PM  

@ Mr. Pea

What is wrong with you?!

If they believed it, nothing they are doing would make much sense anymore. They would think they were going insane.

Blogger WATYF January 04, 2013 9:22 PM  

its called pattern recognition.

Yes, I see a very clear pattern in your self-delusion.

During prohibition they poisoned alcohol and killed up to 10,000 people. They have in fact poisoned marijuana in the war on drugs. We have literally dozens of false flags to choose from.

So... more of the "I'm right about other conspiracies so I'm right about this conspiracy" logic, eh? Good call.


So much so... that yes... False Flag should be on the mind of everyone... every time something like this happens.

Ah.... so, now you've graduated to, "I'm SO right about previous conspiracies that everyone should ASSUME I'm right about any given major event being a conspiracy before I even say it is"?

Well that's a rather impressive leap you've taken there.

BZZZT. Wrong. There are contradictions in every single story..and morons like you blow them off.

You mean the fact that they all got the story wrong in the early hours (during their circle jerk of cross-sourced infogasm) and then had to correct their earlier mistakes after the fact? And you think this disproves my point... how?

So they clearly do NOT have to worry about any of that. individual witnesses will be supressed or simply discredited as cooks. See Flight 800 for details.

Yeah, and I'm sure this is easy-peasy. Even a toddler could do it. :^D

3)No cops or anyone else is required to be in on it beyond the one or two shooters, and their handlers.

Then where is all of the false info coming from? Are you telling me the cops on the scene aren't in on it and yet are also disseminating bad info everywhere? And if so, then who is issuing the "corrections", and why are all the cops going along with the new story?

4)False. Again... the horde actually helps obfuscate the truth. You're just to much of an idiot to see it.

Nah, you're just too much of an idiot to see how many ridiculous assumptions you have piled on top of each other in order to support your worldview.

WATYF

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 04, 2013 9:25 PM  

The government can't do that! The government can't do that! They are to incompetent! Someone would talk! Why would they do that! They can't kill children... that is too cold! No one is that evil!

Second Nate on the retard comment.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 9:27 PM  

WATYF

Just after the bomb went off in OKC... the Oklahoma governor got on TV and announced that they had recovered one of the bombs from inside the building that did not go off. Commentators then went on to rave about how this was a great thing... and how they could trace the explosives back to those who made them.

The bomb was shown being removed from the building.

And yet the american public believes a truck load of cow shit blew up that building.

There is proof that virtually NOTHING has to go right. Government officials can get on tv and spill the beans on air... and the public will STILL swallow the bullshit story.

Because of idiots like you.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 9:29 PM  

Honestly... WATYF makes Tad look like the pinnacle of intellectual honesty.

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 04, 2013 9:32 PM  

@ Nate

Yeah, I was at home that day. I remember them finding multiple explosives. I remember the rescuers being told to evac. Then I remember how they covered it all up...

In fact, I was at home the day of 911. I also remember hearing firefighters saying explosives were going off...

People are so disconnected from reality.

Anonymous Todd January 04, 2013 9:39 PM  

I wish people would stop calling it a government conspiracy.

God has His chosen people and so does Satan. He is a counterfeit of God. As a side note I believe 666 is related, in part, to verse Rev 3:12

"Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God (6) and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem (6), which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name (6)."

6 is the number of man. So, replace the 6 with the counterfeit of the anti-christ since he wants to show himself as God.

The anti-christ isn't just going to show up some day without his john the baptists' preparing the way.
After I had a friend invited to the Bohemian Grove (which I think is related to the Hells Fire Club) my view of the world started to change. This friend wouldn't tell me anything about his 'vacation' there but has been invited back every year since. He married into an elite family and his family has mafia background but they kept him clean.

After doing research I concluded that we live among generational satanists and always have. And it is they that have infiltrated all governments and intelligence services.

Blogger WATYF January 04, 2013 9:41 PM  

Where in I remember... I'm talking to an idiot calvinist.

hahahahaha... oh man... you just summed up your approach to "fact finding" right there: blind assumption.

I'm not a Calvinist, you moron. Although my several Calvinist friends who I spent a great deal of time harassing about their Calvinist views will find it interesting that someone called me one. :^D

No. You fucking fucktard. Waco was not "a fire". It was a huge standoff between US citizens and their government that literally lasted days.

uh huh....

It started with a botched raid that was covered up... where in the ATF actually SURRENDERED to the citizens... who then allowed the raid team to leave. Then the FBI showed up and actually broke Posse commitatus and employed the US military against US citizens on American soil. All of which covered up.

Right. Just like Sandy Hook was a false flag operation wherein a secret government assassin and/or a nobody fall-guy killed a bunch of cherub-faced kids and their teachers, made sure not a single witness was left alive in the entire building and vicinity, perfectly planted all of the evidence needed to cover up any outside involvement while perfectly planting evidence to incriminate the person they wanted to incriminate and tell the story they wanted to tell, and then released conflicting information to the press about what really happened, and then later corrected it (I'm kinda confused about this part, though, so maybe your laser-like insight could clear up exactly how that part happened) all while orchestrating every single member of every branch of law enforcement that was on the scene so that no one would spot any holes in their cover-up??

You mean like that??

:^D

Retard.

Dipshit.


WATYF

Blogger WATYF January 04, 2013 9:44 PM  

Just after the bomb went off in OKC... blah blah blah blah

OK... so... just to be clear... your primary tactic is, when I point out problems with your interpretation of the Sandy Hook event, change the topic to some previous supposed conspiracy and claim victory??

Alright, just checking.

WATYF

Anonymous just another steve January 04, 2013 9:45 PM  

Who would benefit from a conspiracy to kill small children? What would be the point/goal of such an act?

Anonymous Geoff January 04, 2013 9:45 PM  

Nate, without specifics: you in Bham, T-town, where? Would like to know like-mindeds in the area.

Blogger WATYF January 04, 2013 9:46 PM  

Honestly... WATYF makes Tad look like the pinnacle of intellectual honesty.

It's astounding that you can think my disagreement with your blind assumptions is somehow proof of "intellectual dishonesty".

Oh wait.... no it isn't... because so much of what comes out of your mouth is the result of, well, blind assumption.

I sure wish I could form my worldviews on blind assumption. That must be a pleasant life.

WATYF

Anonymous Todd January 04, 2013 9:51 PM  

"Who would benefit from a conspiracy to kill small children? What would be the point/goal of such an act?"

The Cannites (and then the Jews) sacrificed their first born to Molloch (symbolized by the owl) in the ring of fire. Obviously they saw benefit from it.

Do you think the occult just disappeared? They have always been here and they have the power (eph 6;12)

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 04, 2013 9:59 PM  

Who would benefit from a conspiracy to kill small children? What would be the point/goal of such an act?

Try trauma induced programming.

Predictable programming.

Etc. Etc.

Hell, start with Operation Paper Clip... follow along from there.

Christ! The spook head shrinks are so far ahead of some of you.

(Heck, they can even digitize your frikking dreams now).

You people are so way behind. You're like babies.

Anonymous kh123 January 04, 2013 10:07 PM  

"Ah.... so, now you've graduated to, "I'm SO right about previous conspiracies that everyone should ASSUME I'm right about any given major event being a conspiracy before I even say it is"?"

I'm wondering if this was ever the sentiment between the Reichstag Fire Amendment and the Wannsee Conference.

Just to make clear, I don't know if the latest incident was false-flag or not. It's not so much a matter of can - as per several commentators pointing out above that the same gov't has found such things as Waco, al-Amriki, and al-Awlaki acceptable - but of if. I wouldn't rule out that, if an op, a simpler scenario played out than the one WATYF describes, something several steps below the Mumbai incident. (The doped-up grunts in that scenario were using AKs, grenades, and cell phones to keep in touch with their handler, and yet they reportedly found a running tap in the bathroom an unimaginable miracle of technology.)

At this point, given the media noise around the event, we'll be lucky to have any substantial evidence that can be potentially falsified within the next several months, such as ballistics, coroner finding, verifiable background on the alleged, official eye witness testimony on series of events, or the weapons that performed the deed.

Blogger Desert Cat January 04, 2013 10:10 PM  

Athor Pel January 04, 2013 5:01 PM
What is really funny is when the shooters are patients of doctors involved with CIA mind-control/brain-washing/interrogation research. As in, on staff at institutions known to be recipients of CIA money and an author of papers on the subject.


mmm...yup!

Anonymous Josh January 04, 2013 10:16 PM  

It was NOT... "a fire" any more than the moon landing was just "a launch".

DON'T LET THE CONSPIRACIES CROSS!

Anonymous Bastiat January 04, 2013 10:19 PM  

Apparently the murderer, while being scrawny, was able to lug a bunch of equipment throughout his rampage. That is, if we ever get actual evidence from authorities. No photos? No surveillance video from the secure entrance he broke through?

Not hard to make sure there are no witnesses when slaughtering children and their cowering teachers.

Also: Shut up Ta(r)d.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 04, 2013 10:23 PM  

Wheels within wheels.

However, the bread (food stamps) and circuses will keep the plebs happy. The rest of us can go on about our business.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 04, 2013 10:24 PM  

Why does Tad support rapists

Anonymous Anonymous January 04, 2013 10:31 PM  

ck: "As for the guy smiling at the press conference about his daughter, I can attest that he's no actor. Also, although his smiling is strange, he's a Mormon. Mormon's have interesting ways of handling death."

The child was under 8 y.o. For mormons that means she gets a free ride to the highest heaven they've got. The rest of us poor saps who make it pass 8 have got to earn it. This is what's going on in his head:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFN_tBT-xZE

Anonymous The other skeptic January 04, 2013 10:33 PM  

Desparate Spain Raids Pension Funds

How long before that happens here? 2014? 2015? Is that when Nate runs out of his stash of Jacob's Creek?

Anonymous Stilicho January 04, 2013 10:34 PM  

It started with a botched raid that was covered up... where in the ATF actually SURRENDERED to the citizens... who then allowed the raid team to leave. Then the FBI showed up and actually broke Posse commitatus and employed the US military against US citizens on American soil. All of which covered up.

Right. Just like Sandy Hook was a false flag operation...

WATYF: what part of the above statement about Waco do you disagree with?

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 04, 2013 10:44 PM  

When they walking into the gas chambers, they insisted they were just getting a shower.

Finally she disassociates from the reality.

No! I don't believe it! Not in America!

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 10:50 PM  

@WATYF

Nate's account of Waco so far is 100% accurate. This is all a matter of public record.

Anonymous DanG January 04, 2013 10:51 PM  

I was offline all day and I am glad to see people are still commenting. This whole post is based on old news. The story kept changing. Certainly conspiracy theories are not out the question. But after about the second day, the official story has always had the shootings by rifle and and handguns, with an unused shotgun in the trunk.

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 10:56 PM  

"Waco could have been accomplished by knocking over a candle... this is just a weeee bit more complex than that... but nice try."

Ummm... no. I saw the FLIR tapes. The Waco fire began with a series of explosions.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 10:57 PM  

"Nate, without specifics: you in Bham, T-town, where? Would like to know like-mindeds in the area."

Baldwin County.

Blogger Nate January 04, 2013 11:00 PM  

"
It's astounding that you can think my disagreement with your blind assumptions is somehow proof of "intellectual dishonesty".
"

More retardery... what a shock.

Try... for once in your pathetic little life.. to read carefully.

Your disagreement has nothing to do with your intellectual dishonesty. Its your methodology for backing up your claims where you continually bait and switch and duck and weave without ever addressing core points.

Useless cunt.

Anonymous elmer January 04, 2013 11:00 PM  

You people are so way behind. You're like babies.

With the exception of Salt, Nate, Vox, zenO, et al (very, very few of you) this statement is so true...

You people are so mis/disinformed, because you WILL NOT take the time to BE informed. The MSM (and even some alt media) are bought and paid for. Period. They are doing their job, as they are paid to do.

You learn things from people who know things. Allow me to help. Let me introduce you to Stew Webb. U.S. Marine veteran, with experience in the intelligence community. Gordon Duff. U.S. Marine veteran, with experience in the intelligence community. They will in turn introduce to other military veterans, (and non-military) with experience in the intelligence community, and the various physical and life sciences.

Here's your baptims of fire. It will take 3 hours of your time. How much of your time, is important to you, to comprehend some truth? Then understanding the SSG and Third Force is child's play. And, comprehending the Biology of the Beast is far more palatable. But for now, until one takes that first step, as Webb literally enumerates, you are infants, not even qualified for preschool at this point in time. See what a marvelous job the public (govt) education system has accomplished thus far?



--------
* In the VT and FB threads, I am Klaatu. I have gone to Duff in personal email to ask questions. Duff responds within 24 hours, and he does answer my questions. One Marine to another. I have yet to personally engage with Webb. I'm sure I will at some point. Oh, and Gonob is ADL/AIPAC. Actually, a pretty amatuer AP at that.

I enjoy watching the tadpole, et al thrashing here at the hands of much less qualified Ilk. You really haven't felt my full force. (complete acumen). I've been a bit lazy of late. Go into VT, and see how Duff, et al hands your (et al) head to you on a plate. Or, send you home to your mommy's arms. And, if your mommy is dead, cause you to dig her up, to clutch her dried bones in utter terror.

Anonymous rubberducky January 04, 2013 11:06 PM  

If you're going to use a story to advance an agenda, it's important to seize the authority of authorship. You've got to tell it like you need it told. So what do you do when you've got a story that went down in broad daylight with tons of witnesses? You muck up the details, you heighten confusion, you set off contradictory narratives. So you can set the record straight later, at the opportune time. Even if the events occured spontaneously, you can still sieze authorship of them, with subtlety, and arrange things. Dominate the explication. Make it yours.

That's what they are doing. It's a very slick move.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 04, 2013 11:07 PM  

The Colonial Roots of Gun Control in India

James Burgh who said:


"The possession of (fire)arms is the distinction between a free man and a slave."

Anonymous The other skeptic January 04, 2013 11:14 PM  

The unintended consequences of the actions of retarded progressives

Anonymous The other skeptic January 04, 2013 11:21 PM  

The unintended consequences of the actions of retarded progressives

Anonymous FrankBrady January 04, 2013 11:53 PM  

Vox will answer for himself if he sees fit but surely the purpose is self evident: create a public clamor in support of plans to confiscate the weapons that will allow an awakening public to defend itself against the incipient tyranny that stands poised to strike.

Anonymous FrankBrady January 05, 2013 12:12 AM  

Google "asymmetrical warfare".

Anonymous elmer January 05, 2013 12:12 AM  

Some very tough words to the majority of Americans...

The Truth About Americans and Guns

I no longer feel safe around those that seem able to deny, able to turn away from anything, from everything.

There is a point where “moral flexibility” becomes psychopathic behavior.

What good is a gun without honor or courage?

What good is a gun in the hands of a bully or coward?

Why trust in the judgment of a moron?





Ouch!

OpenID whoresoftheinternet January 05, 2013 12:25 AM  

I'm sorry, but I must repeat:

This does not have to be a false flag; it would only require a few handlers (or even one) to find a suitable wacko and stir him up---a little coke, a little fantasy-talk, put a gun in his hands, and send him off.

This would prevent people from getting their hands dirty. Loyal party/administration supporters would be willing to do this . Lanza was a good, known target for this sort of easy encouragement. Communists used simple tactics like this in the past (especially the 60's) to create news-worthy, statistically worthless, but chaos-inducing events :

1. Find a suitable actor: low IQ, mentally diseased, easily suggestible.
2. Find suitable target: Democrat National convention in '68; Alabama churches for black people; children's school.
3. Suitable time to launch: when administration needs distraction, but not during major natural disaster.

This administration deliberately placed guns in drug dealers hands SOLELY to get people killed SOLEY to support gun control. The program slightly backfired (didn't get the result, minor blowback on Holder). Now, try again---with the bonus of hiding the Libya sins.

Anonymous Nihilus January 05, 2013 12:33 AM  

@elmer

So the Romney family aren't Americans and Jeb Bush is a drug dealer.
Can't say I'm surprised.

Anonymous elmer January 05, 2013 12:41 AM  

A reason why one should make VT, one of your few daily news stops: (This in addition to LRC and RT [not just for the babes])

EDITORIAL BOARD OF DIRECTORS

The Board is responsible for all content on VT and participates in all major decisions regarding content, columnists, and editorial direction for VT

Gordon Duff - Chairman, U.S. Marines, Vietnam, Board Member/Director Adamus Corp., Switzerland

Lt. General Hamid Gul – Director General ISI (Former Chief of Intelligence Services, Pakistan)

Col. Eugene Khrushchev - Former Soviet/Russian Airborne, Intelligence, PsyOps, First Secretary, Soviet and Russian Embassies, Kabul, Afghanistan

Gwenyth Todd – Former Head, White House National Security Council, Middle East Desk, Chief Political Advisor, US Navy 5th Fleet

Jeff Rense - Radio host and investigative journalist (www.rense.com)

Major Bobby Hanifin - US Air Force

Khalil Nouri - Afghanistan Political Expert and Military Specialist

Carol Duff - RN, BA, MSN, Veteran’s Health Issues Editor

Jim W. Dean – Military Order of World Wars, Association for Intelligence Officers

Leo Wanta – Former National Director of Intelligence, White House, Inspector General, Department of Defense

Mike Harris – Financial Editor, Managing Director Adamus Defense Group, Switzerland

James H. Fetzer, Ph.D. – McKnight Professor Emeritus, University of Minnesota Duluth, former Marine Corps officer



Notice the person highlighted there. He once worked with DCIs Colby and Casey, all under Reagan. He's known as the "Trillion Dollar Man." Some have suggested that when he realizes his total wealth, that he start a news agency to counter the likes of Murdoch, Turner, and GE Capital. Until such time, tune in to VT. Imagine what a trillion (or multi-billions) could mean in a news agency startup...

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 05, 2013 12:48 AM  

If you're going to use a story to advance an agenda, it's important to seize the authority of authorship. You've got to tell it like you need it told. So what do you do when you've got a story that went down in broad daylight with tons of witnesses? You muck up the details, you heighten confusion, you set off contradictory narratives. So you can set the record straight later, at the opportune time. Even if the events occured spontaneously, you can still sieze authorship of them, with subtlety, and arrange things. Dominate the explication. Make it yours.

Muddy up the waters, rearrange the pebbles.

I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.


If they believed it, nothing they are doing would make much sense anymore. They would think they were going insane.

Each one is a puppet. It doesn't have to know, or need to know, what the other is doing. The end result is all that matters.

Unfortunately, some of you are the end... result.

Anonymous elmer January 05, 2013 12:57 AM  

OT: (sort of)

Okay Vox, you have to love her. She's Italian. In fact, Miss Italy -- 1969...

Daniela Giordano

[wish we could post images here, yummy that '69 photo]

Anonymous AdognamedOp January 05, 2013 4:50 AM  

Why is it so hard to believe that a product of this dysfunctional society would go and murder school kids? Millions of drones are being lobotomize daily, courtesy of.. public education, psychotropic drugs and the culture of darkness.
The conspiracy of the left is well known and has been discussed here. Lanza was merely a natural consequence of the society they created.
If there's a false flag it was set into motion long ago and is no longer secret.
Spreading conspiracy theories is a useful tool to the left but. It keeps those most fearful of gov't fearful by convincing them gov't has the power to carry out elaborate schemes.

Anonymous aero January 05, 2013 5:30 AM  

The very way the second amendment was written is proof the the founding father new that there would be advancements in weaponry for they did not exclude the canon or any other kinds of weapons.

Each one of the bill of rights were written for the people. They are to complement each other.
They were not written so one right could work against each other.
I wonder how all the gun control people would feel if there name and address were published listing all there valuables? How would the police feel that were enforcing these unconstitutional gun control laws if their address published?
After all, I would not want one of my children going over to one of these anti gun owners home and have there innocent minds poisoned by anti American ideas. Worst of all they would not be able to protect them.

Anonymous Anonymous January 05, 2013 8:15 AM  

http://www.redstate.com/2012/12/27/setting-the-record-straight-adam-lanza-did-use-the-bushmaster-ar-15/

Blogger Nate January 05, 2013 9:02 AM  

Anon

Pick a name.

As for you linked article... it literally adds nothing to the conversation. We are all well aware that the police have claimed it was an AR-15. In fact that same quote is IN the link referenced in VD's post. The point is... note that he did not claim to HAVE the weapon or to have recovered the weapon.

And no one has yet seen it.

Anonymous Friend January 05, 2013 9:24 AM  

@Elmer, I think different spiders make different webs. It is easy to laugh at knats trapped in an easily seen web when you don't realize you are in one yourself, just more silken and stronger.

And of course, there are those huge strong spiders that even hunt birds. Flying away from one web into another. There is a web for everyone. We are all in chains. Only Christ can free us.

I used to visit those sites. Then I realized that if they are who they say they are they would never have seen the light of day for long.
Just a thought.

Anonymous Godfrey January 05, 2013 9:57 AM  

The ruling class has been manipulating the masses into war for centuries (e.g. WMD's, The Gulf of Tokin, etc.), why wouldn't they do the same with domestic policy?

It doesn't take a genius to manipulate a naive fool.



Anonymous Van January 05, 2013 10:09 AM  

So they are competent enough to pull this off, yet too stupid to make sure the subject weapon is actually used.

Blogger Shimshon January 05, 2013 11:28 AM  

One of the more unusual aspects of this incident is the (nearly?) complete lack of non-fatal casualties. Look at previous school shootings. Columbine alone had many injured who provided eyewitness testimony to what happened. It's just oh-so-convenient that the shooter was so good that every single target died. How freaking weird is that?!

Blogger Tiny Tim January 05, 2013 11:39 AM  

The President orders people killed on a regular basis. When justified, he is a killer. When justified............. when justified.......... when justified......

Blogger Shimshon January 05, 2013 12:34 PM  

We will also NEVER see a single frame of the video footage that without a shred of doubt exists of the incident. Lanza's approach to the entrance, the entrance itself, his walk to the classrooms. None of it. No one even talks about it. And of course, there won't be a trial, so they won't even have to fight to prevent its release.

Anonymous Van January 05, 2013 1:08 PM  

Let me introduce you to David Stevenson. Know that he has experinece in the intelligence community. Rest assured that he is who he claims to be, and is knowledgeable of these matters. He has in his possession certain documents. I have had the opportunity to review these documents, and can testify to their authenticity. I can further verify that they do confirm the commenter known as "elmer" is not who he claims to be, but is in fact a total fucking moron.

Anonymous Van January 05, 2013 1:16 PM  

Know also that using a smarphone typically results in at least one typo.

Anonymous Godfrey January 05, 2013 1:47 PM  

Yep, the whole thing stinks.

Blogger WATYF January 05, 2013 6:09 PM  

More retardery... what a shock.

More bombastic and empty rhetoric. What a shock.

Your disagreement has nothing to do with your intellectual dishonesty. Its your methodology for backing up your claims where you continually bait and switch and duck and weave without ever addressing core points.

I'm not baiting and switching or ducking and weaving anything. I've made several statements and the only one you've really spent much time addressing is the one about the gov't not being especially bright (which was the least substantive and most hyperbolic of my opening statements). Most of the rest you ignored while mentioning several other, completely unrelated, events. Talk about "duck and weave".

I'm not here to talk about your crackpot theories about every previous "conspiracy" (although I did look up a couple of your "facts" about them, and they have long been debunked, but hey... that won't stop you from believing what you want to believe). What I'm saying (and have been saying since my initial statement) is that nothing presented thus far regarding Sandy Hook has been clear (or even "likely") evidence of a conspiracy.

Useless cunt.

Petulant child.

WATYF

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