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Thursday, January 24, 2013

Politicians are lying bastards

And in other news, water is still wet:
[B]efore Senator Joe Manchin III invited a group of 15 businessmen and community leaders to lunch last week to discuss the topic, he had only a vague idea of how anxious many of his supporters were.

“How many of you all believe that there is a movement to take away the Second Amendment?” he asked.

About half the hands in the room went up.

Despite his best attempts to reassure them — “I see no movement, no talk, no bills, no nothing” — they remained skeptical....

On Thursday a group of Democratic senators led by Dianne Feinstein of California plans to introduce a bill that would outlaw more than 100 different assault weapons, setting up what promises to be a fraught and divisive debate over gun control in Congress in the coming weeks. 
I imagine the other half are just as skeptical now.  How out of it, or how dishonest, does a senator have to be to fail to see a bill as obvious as Feinstein's coming only a week before it is announced?  Public Enemy had it right when Chuck D rapped about the fact that is corrupt like a senator.  But I think Nate may have had it right when he concluded that the pile of executive orders that Obama dropped on the nation last week represented him backing down on guns after Sandy Hook failed to be the game changer the media billed it as.

Can you even imagine how much trouble the guy in charge of orchestrating false flags is right now?  No doubt he's desperately defending himself.  What's he supposed to do for an encore, find some patsy, drug him up, and turn him loose in an animal shelter to shoot up puppies and kittens?

The American people have made it eminently clear that even if 100 kindergartens are machine-gunned tomorrow, they'll pull their kids out of school and take them shopping at the gun store rather than disarm.

Labels: ,

145 Comments:

Anonymous RINO January 24, 2013 3:07 PM  

Are you still pushing the theory that they brought in a muslim terrorist to shoot up Sandy Hook? That obviously isn't the case as he would've been unable to resist screaming "allah ackbar" as he was doing it.

Blogger Giraffe January 24, 2013 3:10 PM  

Good chance we'll lose private sales. Good chance people will ignore it too.

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 3:14 PM  

What good is having them, if you have to jump through loops to use them?

Man who shot dogs mauling child faces gun charges...

Hmmm... before I save this boy from these marauding dogs, what laws am I going to break that will land me in prison and a felon for life?

Blogger Shimshon January 24, 2013 3:16 PM  

It will be interesting to see if this thing does end up becoming law.

Blogger Giraffe January 24, 2013 3:22 PM  

Water still wet, Republicans still worthless.

Anonymous Mina January 24, 2013 3:24 PM  

Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 3:14 PM: Great article, good example.

We have been having discussions about this very thing at home. What good is having them, if you will get arrested and have the book thrown at you for using them?

Anonymous Starbuck January 24, 2013 3:26 PM  

I personally believe this bill will pass. Because after all they are going to "grandfather" in the guns that were bought legally. However, they will be registered so that they know where they are and where to go to get them.

I also believe that people will probably comply. I wish that weren't true. But it will be. After all they won't be confiscating their weapons.... yet.

Blogger The Great and Powerful Oz January 24, 2013 3:26 PM  

Now, now, I'm sure that at least some politicians have valid birth certificates showing that their parents were married....

But I agree about the lying part. These things happen, even in the best of homes.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 January 24, 2013 3:26 PM  

@RINO
"Are you still pushing the theory that they brought in a muslim terrorist to shoot up Sandy Hook? That obviously isn't the case as he would've been unable to resist screaming "allah ackbar" as he was doing it."

When has VD said that?

Anonymous Starbuck January 24, 2013 3:27 PM  

We have been having discussions about this very thing at home. What good is having them, if you will get arrested and have the book thrown at you for using them?

It's still better to fight in court later then getting lowered into the ground afterwards.

Blogger Shimshon January 24, 2013 3:28 PM  

I think the responses by the lefties I know from my college days was interesting. To a person, they all insisted that they were not interested in any kind of ban or restriction on ownership, except for barring a few crazies like Lanza. No concept of how absurdly open-ended such an idea is. Or the supreme irony of using psychiatry in the US pretty similarly to how it was used in the Soviet Union, even if not yet to the same quality of horrors.

The faux compassion was sickening. One guy even said, it's disrespectful to talk like this on the one month anniversary. Really, you feel no differently than if you had lost your own child? Give me a break.

Further, not a single person saw the additional absurdity of having the most murderous government on earth today, which commits at least one Sandy Hook per day (probably, but no one even bothered challenging the assertion), decide on who should be allowed to own arms. The wars and destruction were completely off their radar. Zero compassion. Shows you what kind of monsters these useful idiots are.

Even though many of these friends leaned left back in college, I don't remember it being nearly this strident or offensive. I doubt I would have been friends with them if it were. Some were even mildly deep thinkers, who had some skepticism of government or the official line on things. They've all, every last one of them, gone off the deep end.

Blogger Shimshon January 24, 2013 3:34 PM  

They are also loud and obnoxious. Fittingly, this group seems to lean more towards High Church Atheism. They are avowedly atheist instead of no religion. Constantly putting up absurd arguments that make no sense.

There are other friends who blessedly avoid commenting on politics, regardless of which way they feel. I much appreciate this group.

There are a couple of friends from the group that seem pretty moderate, and they've taken to putting up pictures of their guns as well as practice, just to tweak the nuts out there, I think.

This is all on Facebook. Been checking it out more recently to get the pulse of this old group of friends I had.

Anonymous Starbuck January 24, 2013 3:34 PM  

Right now I am working with engineers from out east - New York, Virginia, etc.

The conversation of guns came up and they all said they would not give up their 2nd amendment rights. They then proudly declared they owned shotguns and hunting rifles and pistols. Then they proudly said they are all properly registered with the state government!

I laughed, which confused them. I told them they already gave up their 2nd amendment rights. HA! Then they went and defended their actions saying they are complying with the law. And there was nothing, NOTHING wrong with having their weapons registered.

I asked them, "So if the governments decided to confiscate all weapons in the hands of legal owners, how you plan on stopping them when they know where you and your guns are?"

These are nuclear engineers... smart guys... and they were speechless. They had no way to answer. Then they asked me if my guns were registered. I said "No." and "They will not ever be registered."

And no, I didn't tell them what weapons I owned... Heh.


This being niave is why I believe americans will regester their "grandfathered" weapons. They will be relieved they get to keep them.

Idiots...

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 3:38 PM  

It's still better to fight in court later then getting lowered into the ground afterwards.

When an opponent declares, “I will not come over to your side,” I calmly say, “Your child belongs to us already… What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community.” — Adolf Hitler

Blogger Res Ipsa January 24, 2013 3:39 PM  

"American people have made it eminently clear that even if 100 kindergartens are machine-gunned tomorrow, they'll pull their kids out of school and take them shopping at the gun store rather than disarm."

We'll do that, becaue those two things will make it safer for our kids. I decided to never let my kids into a school in the first place. I call it love anda better education, but it's safety too.

Anonymous Orville January 24, 2013 3:43 PM  

Well apparently my Keltec 2000 is on Dianne Fuckstein's list. She can come and get it, and no, I won't register it just because the promise to grandfather it in.

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 3:46 PM  

Here is the thing that gets me. How the hell am I going to defend my family and self from the marauding boo-slims?

Mali... the stepping stone to AmeriKa.

Anonymous Agent Mongoloid January 24, 2013 3:58 PM  

[Insert Tad argument about weapons of imminently massive and uncontrollable lethality creating lists of children who - having survived Roe vs Wade - are now destroyed by the wholly misunderstood and unenlightened Second Amendment]

I can gun controlling.

Blogger Giraffe January 24, 2013 3:59 PM  

The list, if you are curious:

http://freebeacon.com/feinstein-the-purpose-is-to-dry-up-the-supply-of-these-weapons-over-time/

Anonymous Loki of Asgard January 24, 2013 4:03 PM  

Excuse me?

As the resident lying bastard, I take offense.

Anonymous Stilicho January 24, 2013 4:03 PM  

From the Washington Examiner:
As Sen. Dianne Feinstein D-Calif. opened her press conference on gun control today, she invited Dean of the National Cathedral Rev. Canon Gary Hall to offer a prayer.

Hall spoke briefly before the prayer, calling for Washington lawmakers to stop fearing the gun lobby and fulfill their “moral duty” to restrict guns.

"Everyone in this city seems to live in terror of the gun lobby," Hall said. "But I believe that the gun lobby is no match for the cross lobby."

Hall said that he could no longer justify a society that allowed ordinary citizens to keep and bear "assault weapons."


Let's see, a Jewish Senator calling on a nominally Christian clergyman to denounce freedom on behalf of the "Cross lobby." I suppose it was inevitable that Churchianity would lead to this point. Sam Scott is welcome here any day. Dianne Feinstein and her fellow travelers, not so much. Abe Foxman will no doubt be surprised.

Christians not only have God-given rights to life, liberty, and property and the attendant right to defend those rights, they have a duty, a moral and religious obligation to defend those rights.

Anonymous Signe January 24, 2013 4:12 PM  

Your shopping list, ladies and gentlemen, courtesy of Sen. Feinstein.

Anonymous 11B January 24, 2013 4:12 PM  

What continually annoys me is how worthless republicans turn out to be for their constituents when compared to the democrats. When the democrats find themselves out of the White House and in the minority in both houses of Congress, so long as they have enough Senators to mount a filibuster, the democrat constituents can rest assured that nothing will pass that is highly contrary to their interests. Their Senators will filibuster any GOP judicial nominee that doesn't pass their smell test.

You'd think we on the right could at least get some sleep given that the GOP maintains control of the House and has enough votes to filibuster anything in the Senate. However, you'd be wrong. There is a serious possibility that the GOP will go along with these new initiatives. I mean didn't they just raise the debt ceiling which they told us they'd never, ever do again?

Every election cycle the same talking heads tell us to hold our noses and vote GOP. What is the point? Though losing the White House, they still have a strong hand in DC, yet none of us here feels the slightest bit sanguine that our interests will be protected. Given how much power the GOP has in Congress, we should be discussing the Super Bowl confident that our elected representatives have our back. Instead we are on pins and needles.

You know if the situation were reversed, the democrats would have nothing to worry about. So long as the democrats have 40 Senators, their interests will be protected.

Blogger Joshua_D January 24, 2013 4:19 PM  

11B, are you under the impression that the Dems and Repubs are NOT on the same team? Because they are, you know, on the same team.

Anonymous Clay January 24, 2013 4:20 PM  

I don't think that's the entire list....I don't see several models, particularly in the pisol category, that I would think have to be included.

Maybe they'll need to "pass the bill, to see what's in it".

Blogger JDC January 24, 2013 4:24 PM  

Quote from Loki: Excuse me? As the resident lying bastard, I take offense.

At least you don't pretend to be benevolent and desirous of doing what's best for humanity.

Anonymous Jack Amok January 24, 2013 4:24 PM  

Seems like the new trial balloon is imposing liability on gun manufacturers.

And Loki, I sure hope you've got lots of room at the Lying Bastards Resident Apartments. Wouldn't want all you folks to be crowded or anything.

Anonymous Difranco January 24, 2013 4:25 PM  

This is classic Hegelian Dialectic. Senator Feinstein knows her bill won't pass as it is... but she will take those two steps forward. Republicans & the National Republican Apologists (NRA) will 'negotiate' that everyone gets to keep everything but there will be new databases (data warehousing) created to "prevent" crazy people from getting guns. The heat was turned up ever so slightly.

Blogger JDC January 24, 2013 4:27 PM  

@Loki - You may want to sodomize the planet and it's inhabitants (much like our politicians), but please tell me, that unlike them, during the act you won't attempt to convince us it's for our own good.

Anonymous Salt January 24, 2013 4:34 PM  

It's a terrible misadventure of history that the leftists, a la Feinstein, did not get to experience the terror that was Stalin or Mao. Perhaps that explains it. They feel left out.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard January 24, 2013 4:37 PM  

@Loki - You may want to sodomize the planet and it's inhabitants (much like our politicians), but please tell me, that unlike them, during the act you won't attempt to convince us it's for our own good.

That you will derive benefit from my reign is purely incidental to my own amusement.

As for your enlightening imagery...no.

Anonymous Porky? January 24, 2013 4:46 PM  

"I've always been a Yankees fan!"

-Hillary Clinton

Anonymous Poli_Mis January 24, 2013 4:53 PM  

What continually annoys me is how worthless republicans turn out to be for their constituents when compared to the democrats.

How many times do we need to explain that neocons are Trotskyites?

GK Chesterton was quoted in a newspaper in 1924 with the following:

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected."

The repukes ARE DOING THEIR JOB. Kapisch?

Anonymous Michael W. January 24, 2013 5:08 PM  

This bill will not pass. It's just a bridge too far. However, the mental health database will be offered up as the compromise position...and you can already hear the rhetoric in the back of your mind.

"Why, how can you possibly have a problem with this common-sense approach? Surely you can see that it's designed to preserve your 2A privileges while keeping these dangerous weapons of war out of the hands of the mentally deranged! We must do it for the CHILDREN!"

I have long said that one day the government of my country would require of me something that I, in good conscience, cannot do. Or, take something that I cherish and, with the stroke of a pen, attempt to take it away, changing me from citizen to criminal overnight. I will be ordered to cease and desist, and in the words of my grandfather, I will tell them to "pound salt". They will sent their enforcers, I will resist, and likely die. So be it.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner January 24, 2013 5:27 PM  

@ Signe

I noticed the list includes the Sig Sauer 550, the rifle issued to Swiss citizens. It fires a 5.56 NATO round, much better round IMO than the 223. Switzerland has never been invaded and never attacked, to my knowledge,another country.

The USSA, the most murderous immoral illegal regime to ever exist on the planet wants to ban the chosen weapon of one of the most peace loving and practicing people on planet Terra.

Very revealing. I will enjoy the decline and the demise of the USSA, as well as the slaughter of the Ameriskank feminists, as they attempt to 'man up' shouldering about all they can handle, a 22 peashooter.

Blogger Aviator4 January 24, 2013 5:29 PM  

I just want to know when swimming pools will be fully regulated, if needed t outright banned. After all, a child in the US is roughly 90 times more likely to drown in a residential swimming pool than be killed by a gun, so surely our wonderful leaders in DC are carefully examining this grave danger as well.

Fortunately my own pool is grandfathered in, or I'd be facing the prospects of having a local contractor come in and fill it entirely with dirt.

Anonymous WinstonWebb January 24, 2013 5:29 PM  

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

O RLY?

...senators led by Dianne Feinstein of California plans to introduce a bill that would outlaw more than 100 different assault weapons

I have a (purely philosophical, mind you) question. Could the [hypothetical] shooting of one Dianne Feinstein be considered an act of resisting tyranny?

Anonymous Lysander Spooner January 24, 2013 5:32 PM  

"I have long said that one day the government of my country would require of me something that I, in good conscience, cannot do. Or, take something that I cherish and, with the stroke of a pen, attempt to take it away, changing me from citizen to criminal overnight. I will be ordered to cease and desist, and in the words of my grandfather, I will tell them to "pound salt". They will sent their enforcers, I will resist, and likely die. So be it."

I am there too, especially as an American caucasian male, who has been shat on, spit on, bullied, openly discriminated against, and generally treated as persona non grata by the very Government that promises to protect one's right, I am way past ready to go to meet the good Lord if need be.

Anonymous Josh January 24, 2013 5:33 PM  

Could the [hypothetical] shooting of one Dianne Feinstein be considered an act of resisting tyranny?

Ask agents Asher, Tad, dh, or Mr Pea.

Don't ask Agent Mongoloid.

Anonymous Signe January 24, 2013 5:35 PM  

I just want to know when swimming pools will be fully regulated, if needed t outright banned. After all, a child in the US is roughly 90 times more likely to drown in a residential swimming pool than be killed by a gun, so surely our wonderful leaders in DC are carefully examining this grave danger as well.

Or cars.

Anonymous RC January 24, 2013 5:41 PM  

Very revealing. I will enjoy the decline and the demise of the USSA, as well as the slaughter of the Ameriskank feminists, as they attempt to 'man up' shouldering about all they can handle, a 22 peashooter." - Lysander Spooner

You may find it amusing that one of the proposed to be banned, super-bad, ultra-dangerous weapons on her list comes in .22LR.

Anonymous WaterBoy January 24, 2013 5:42 PM  

WinstonWebb: "Could the [hypothetical] shooting of one Dianne Feinstein be considered an act of resisting tyranny?"

No, because that would be infringing on her Fifth Amendment right:

...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...

Try her and convict her for treason, first.

Anonymous Daniel January 24, 2013 5:45 PM  

What the world needs right about now is the Misfit.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia January 24, 2013 5:57 PM  

Does someone remember off the top of their head,

Was it only Agent Tad that stated paranoia was the only explanation for the idea that they might confiscate?

Were Agents Asher or dh arguing that point too?

So I guess Tad was wrong, imagine that. It just can't be that Tad was completely wrong about something, just can't be.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia January 24, 2013 6:00 PM  

Mr. Pea:

Here is the thing that gets me. How the hell am I going to defend my family and self from the marauding boo-slims?


Do you think that you are posting at Free Republic?

This ain't Free Republic.

The common thought around here is that we don't need to be involved in empire and wars with boo-slims.

You need to figure out where you are and the general attitude at the place where you are.

Anonymous karen January 24, 2013 6:03 PM  

The American people have made it eminently clear that even if 100 kindergartens are machine-gunned tomorrow, they'll pull their kids out of school and take them shopping at the gun store rather than disarm.

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia January 24, 2013 6:04 PM  

Mr. Pea:

(quoting Starbuck) It's still better to fight in court later then getting lowered into the ground afterwards.(end Starbuck)

When an opponent declares, “I will not come over to your side,”......


Mr. Pea, you seem to be confused yet again.

Starbuck is basically saying, it is better to be tried by 12 than laid into the ground by six. Which is to say it is better to fire the demon, evil gun and live, than to be killed.

This should appeal to you General Gung-Ho.

Anonymous Daniel January 24, 2013 6:05 PM  

OT: Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena, the worlds oldest operational bank, strangles.

Anonymous Anonagain January 24, 2013 6:07 PM  

And in other, other news, people are still idiots who vote these lying bastards into power.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia January 24, 2013 6:08 PM  

Starbuck:
I also believe that people will probably comply. I wish that weren't true. But it will be. After all they won't be confiscating their weapons.... yet.


I believe they probably won't and there will be massive noncompliance.

But then we have argued this point over and over.

You think most will lie down...

And Mr. Pea keeps pushing people to start shooting. Notice Mr. Pea ain't shooting, he just ready for others too.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia January 24, 2013 6:11 PM  

Josh:

Ask agents Asher, Tad, dh, or Mr Pea.


It is weird how they are all so quiet on this one.
(Well Pea has been shooting off his mouth a little again, but then isn't he always ready to start shooting).

Anonymous DonReynolds January 24, 2013 6:12 PM  

For all his faults, Bill Clinton is an astute politician and he loves the Democrat party. He recently warned other Democrats that this gun control campaign would backfire, probably re-igniting the Tea Party again. I think he put it too mildly and the message was lost.

Anonymous paradox January 24, 2013 6:17 PM  

Stilicho January 24, 2013 4:03 PM

Let's see, a Jewish Senator calling on a nominally Christian clergyman to denounce freedom on behalf of the "Cross lobby." I suppose it was inevitable that Churchianity would lead to this point. Sam Scott is welcome here any day. Dianne Feinstein and her fellow travelers, not so much. Abe Foxman will no doubt be surprised.


Don't forget FUBAR Nation (Ben)

I think you may have stumbled on to something here. All Evangelical Christian gun owners should make support of Israel conditional on support for the 2nd Amendment. The calls for gun control would end overnight.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 24, 2013 6:19 PM  

Conan..."After all they won't be confiscating their weapons.... yet."

I gently disagree. They have proposed to REQUIRE everyone with scary guns to STORE THEM properly in a facility, rather than keep them at their homes. Probably the local police will manage the storage facility for guns and ammo. You can collect your firearm when they say you can and you bring it back when they say. If that is is not firearm confiscation, I do not know what is. This crackpot idea enables the government to collect the firearms without that pesky constitutional requirement that people be duely compensated when the government takes their property. Once they are locked away in a storage facility, what difference does it make (to quote Hillary) who owns the firearms? They are confiscated nonetheless.


Blogger Giraffe January 24, 2013 6:22 PM  

That idiot Biden tips their hand:

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/24/16682888-biden-downplays-assault-weapons-ban-emphasizes-background-checks-and-magazine-restrictions?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=2

Anonymous DonReynolds January 24, 2013 6:34 PM  

11B...."I mean didn't they just raise the debt ceiling which they told us they'd never, ever do again?"

It is worse than you think, my good fellow. They are not going to raise the debt ceiling.....they are going to suspend it entirely! There will be no credit limit on Mr. Obamba AT ALL. The insanity of this "compromise", to give Obamba an American Express card just when all his MasterCards and Visas are maxed out. THERE WILL BE NO DEBT CEILING. Now just imagine how difficult it will be to return to a debt ceiling ever again.

The House Republipukes have finally convinced me they are stupid and without peer. There is nothing else dumb enough to compare them to....not even a rabbit.

Anonymous Porky January 24, 2013 6:36 PM  

Authoritarians want authority. RFID chips on schoolchildren, GPS trackers on your car, Google data on your internet, Medical records online, FBI dossiers on...everybody,

Background checks on guns? I'm just surprised it took this long.

Respect the authoritah!!

Anonymous Agent Mongoloid January 24, 2013 6:43 PM  

"I have a (purely philosophical, mind you) question."

"Don't ask Agent Mongoloid."


I cans grassy knoll.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 24, 2013 6:46 PM  

Mr. Pea...."Hmmm... before I save this boy from these marauding dogs, what laws am I going to break that will land me in prison and a felon for life?"

Not a problem, bro. Just do like everyone else. Blast the dog. Tell one of the bystanders to call 911 for the boy and leave the area. Do not pass Go and do not collect 200 dollars, just keep going. The cops cannot find their ass with both hands. Most shooters never get caught and NOBODY is going to bother to investigate when a bad doggie gets shot. They hardly bother when people get shot.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia January 24, 2013 6:51 PM  

DonReynolds:
They are confiscated nonetheless.


No, no, now Tad assured us that no such thing could ever occur. You must be paranoid. Not happening, it is not happening. Just ask Tad!

Like in Erik The Viking:
King Arnulf: Let's stick to facts. There has never been a safer, more certain way of keeping the peace.
So whatever's happening, you can rest assured,
Hy Brasil is not sinking. Repeat, not sinking.

Hy Brasil is not sinking! You don't know our safety percautions.

Anonymous Stilicho January 24, 2013 6:52 PM  

Don't forget FUBAR Nation (Ben)

Indeed. I thought to name Sam as representative as it were, but Ben, Shimshon et al. are certainly included. Tonto, the et al. refers to you.

Anonymous Godfrey January 24, 2013 7:17 PM  

Assuming 305,000,000 people in the USSA, every representative in the house represents just over 700,000 people. How is that democracy? Who do they really represent? Do you think you have more influence over your representative than General Electric or Monsanto?

Anonymous Godfrey January 24, 2013 7:23 PM  

The political class is window dressing. They’re stooges for the international banks, corporations and foundations. The moneyed classes that control these entities tell the stooges in congress what to do because they select and bankroll them.

You have no representation.

Anonymous daddynichol January 24, 2013 7:28 PM  

I have a hunch they paraded Feinstein out with her proposed bill just for show and tell. The political elites will quickly denounce her bill as going too far, then they will trot out their "bi-partisan, moderate, common sense" bill that will seem reasonable by comparison. Nonetheless, it will be an encroachment on the 2nd Amendment. Incrementalism.

BTW just where is Tad and company to remind us that "no one is going to take away your guns." (paraphrased)?

Blogger Longstreet January 24, 2013 7:29 PM  

I have long said that one day the government of my country would require of me something that I, in good conscience, cannot do. Or, take something that I cherish and, with the stroke of a pen, attempt to take it away, changing me from citizen to criminal overnight. I will be ordered to cease and desist, and in the words of my grandfather, I will tell them to "pound salt". They will sent their enforcers, I will resist, and likely die. So be it.

In the various message boards that I frequent I have asked a related question of any who sneer at the thought of resistance and/or secession, to wit: Is there NOTHING the government could do to you that would make you resist? No "now you've gone too far" moment? Or would you submit to whatever they declare, angrily sure, but submit nonetheless?"

I've gotten no answers.

Anonymous Godfrey January 24, 2013 7:30 PM  

And they always put compliant morons in positions of power. They select people like Hastert, Pelosi, Reid, etc. Observe these people and you’ll realize they’re stupid. They’re worse than a retarded person once you factor in the enormous egos they possess.

Anonymous feral1404 January 24, 2013 7:34 PM  

@ Michael W.

"I have long said that one day the government of my country would require of me something that I, in good conscience, cannot do. Or, take something that I cherish and, with the stroke of a pen, attempt to take it away, changing me from citizen to criminal overnight. I will be ordered to cease and desist, and in the words of my grandfather, I will tell them to "pound salt". They will sent their enforcers, I will resist, and (THEY WILL) likely die. So be it."

Edited it. Hope you don't mind.

I know that I'm a much better shot than the ATF boys and their local mutts are. I shoot side by side with them quite a bit.

Anonymous Godfrey January 24, 2013 7:38 PM  

Violence isn't the answer. The State excels at violence. Murder and destruction is only thing The State does well. Just ask the people of Vietnam, Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc. The psychopaths that run the murder machine will do the same to you.

The answer is for people to simply withdraw their consent. Sooner or later it will reach a tipping point. Ultimately The State needs your consent to exist. If enough people ignore it, it disappears.

Anonymous Mr. A Pea January 24, 2013 7:40 PM  

And Mr. Pea keeps pushing people to start shooting. Notice Mr. Pea ain't shooting, he just ready for others too.

How stupid.

No. I just find it hard to understand why so many AmuriKans bitch and complain about their liberties being replaced by shackles, one after the other, day in and day out...

Year, after year, after year, after year...

Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch... and they think the answer to the King is a good belly laugh, or just more bitching.

And here we are. Our noses pierced with a nose ring by the State.

I'm just one man. Who and what am I going to start shooting at that will give yours and mine liberties back? The fact is, even IF I started shooting tonight... YOU would not start shooting tomorrow, or ever. It's not like you are waiting on me.

It is amusing that you mock me. I think it says more about you than it does me.

AmuriKans.

No, no, no, no! You can not take my guns! You can take whatever liberties you want and enslave me! But my guns are my liberty teeth!

Just frikkin admit it.

And people wonder how Germany happened. And people like me in past Germany no doubt got called out by the likes of you too, Conan stupid.

Anonymous Bastiat January 24, 2013 7:42 PM  

@Godfrey, and they limited the reps at 435 by a simple bill. This allows them to gerrymander like crazy to keep their status quo. Probably worse than the 17th amendment.

Anonymous Mr. A Pea January 24, 2013 7:47 PM  

Violence isn't the answer.

No! A good belly laugh is the answer!

Tell that to the MILLIONS who perished you moron.

Anonymous Tad's Brain January 24, 2013 7:48 PM  

... Everyone should just get used to submission. I did! ...

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia January 24, 2013 7:53 PM  

PPea:
I think it says more about you than it does me.


Yes, like we are not so stupid as to go calling for revolution on the fully public interwebz. Cause that there be plum geenieus.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia January 24, 2013 7:56 PM  

daddynichol:
it will be an encroachment on the 2nd Amendment. Incrementalism.


That is hitting it.

Bob Owens says the same:

http://www.bob-owens.com/2013/01/feinstein-to-promote-so-called-assault-weapon-ban-bill-today-dont-be-distracted-from-their-real-goals/

Anonymous Godfrey January 24, 2013 7:57 PM  

Good luck taking on a SWAT team Mr. A Pea. You'll last about a minute.

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 8:03 PM  

Yes, like we are not so stupid as to go calling for revolution on the fully public interwebz. Cause that there be plum geenieus.

Oh hell. You're not even doing it behind closed doors in the most secret and darkness of all places.

Because if you pulled your head out of your ass and put it through the window, and yelled, "I'm mad as hell! And I'm not taking it anymore," your local Fusion Center will contact the DHS which in turn gasp in horror-er, surround your house... and you will be forced to fight it out, or go passively to the gulag.

Oh wait. You are plotting the revolution smartly!

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 8:11 PM  

Good luck taking on a SWAT team Mr. A Pea. You'll last about a minute.

Good luck with the Red Coats Mr. Washington, you'll last about a minute.

Actually, what you said... and you speak for millions of AmuriKans, is that liberty is not worth the chance. That it is better to live on your knees subservient to every diktat of the State, than resist.

I believe I can confidently say, if today's AmuriKans were the colonial Americans, there never would have been a revolution.

There really is no point in continuing this discussion that Mr. Pea is a secret agent man trying to out out the little rebels in some of you so da goobermint can raid yer houses.

You are what you are. And nothing will change that.

Anonymous p-dawg January 24, 2013 8:18 PM  

@DonReynolds:

"The House Republipukes have finally convinced me they are stupid and without peer. There is nothing else dumb enough to compare them to....not even a rabbit."

I disagree. If they were just dumb, the law of averages says that they'd do something positive once in a while, just by accident. Just by being too dumb to know it would be a good thing. Yet somehow, they always "mess up" in such a way as to have similar negative consequences for those they "represent", which is not stupidity, it's malice. Dumb people could not make the kinds of sweeping societal changes they have made in such a short (historically speaking) time.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner January 24, 2013 8:21 PM  

@RC" feminists, as they attempt to 'man up' shouldering about all they can handle, a 22 peashooter." - Lysander Spooner

You may find it amusing that one of the proposed to be banned, super-bad, ultra-dangerous weapons on her list comes in .22LR."

Ah, we know, that what they will be really carrying is water for murderous traitors that go by the name politician.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2013 8:21 PM  

@ Longstreet
In the various message boards that I frequent I have asked a related question of any who sneer at the thought of resistance and/or secession, to wit: Is there NOTHING the government could do to you that would make you resist? No "now you've gone too far" moment? Or would you submit to whatever they declare, angrily sure, but submit nonetheless?"

I've gotten no answers.


Why did those Jews get in those cattle-cars? Surely they knew it was a bad idea.

I think you know why, Longstreet. Well done.

Anonymous Godfrey January 24, 2013 8:24 PM  

"You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state of the art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day – for nothing." - Jim Karger

Our only hope is to peacefully undermine the support for the regime among the populace. That's what the regime fears. They're losing support and that is why I expect a false flag or a major military conflict within the next two years.

They're getting desperate.

Anonymous dh January 24, 2013 8:27 PM  

In the various message boards that I frequent I have asked a related question of any who sneer at the thought of resistance and/or secession, to wit: Is there NOTHING the government could do to you that would make you resist? No "now you've gone too far" moment? Or would you submit to whatever they declare, angrily sure, but submit nonetheless?"

No, I cannot think of any duly enacted law that would cause me to abandon the concept of the republican form of government, and take up arms.

I can, on the other hand, think of many actions (which I have taken, in some cases) to resist government iniatives, including accepting penalties for things the government doesn't want me to do. This is the American tradition of civil disobedience.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2013 8:31 PM  

You know, maybe a shooting war can be avoided. The left understands that in politics, you have to be proactive, not reactive. That's how you get attention.

Don't be allied with a political party. Don't allow the NRA to speak for everyone. It actually works better to have numerous organizations. It increases the government workload exponentially.

The Saudis understand this, why don' you?

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man January 24, 2013 8:32 PM  

Mr. Pea: "No. I just find it hard to understand why so many AmuriKans bitch and complain about their liberties being replaced by shackles, one after the other, day in and day out...

Year, after year, after year, after year...

Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch...
"


Errm...Mr. Pea?

You're bitching.

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 8:33 PM  

Our only hope is to peacefully undermine the support for the regime among the populace. That's what the regime fears. They're losing support and that is why I expect a false flag or a major military conflict within the next two years.

They're getting desperate.


So, the point is... we (whoever we is) give the King a good belly laugh and the Kingdom will fall.

Yep.

"You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state of the art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day – for nothing."

So just keep paying yer taxes plebes.

Sigh...

Anonymous rienzi January 24, 2013 8:33 PM  

@MichaelW: I have long said that one day the government of my country would require of me something that I, in good conscience, cannot do. Or, take something that I cherish and, with the stroke of a pen, attempt to take it away, changing me from citizen to criminal overnight. I will be ordered to cease and desist, and in the words of my grandfather, I will tell them to "pound salt". They will sent their enforcers, I will resist, and likely die. So be it.

Beautifully stated.

I saw a documentary about the Battle of Wake Island. One of the ancient geezer survivors, a Marine, was told that it was the only time in their history that the Marines had surrendered in the field. The old man said that he hadn't known that at the time, and that if he had, he would have fought to the death, regardless of orders. He was so ashamed.

I have to get up and look at myself in the mirror in the morning. whether I live another 5, 10, 20, or thirty years. Some things are more important that life.

There are no monuments to Spartan victories.

Anonymous Godfrey January 24, 2013 8:35 PM  

With 305,000,000 people in the USSA, every representative in the house represents just over 700,000 people. How is that a "rebulican form of government"? Who do they really represent? Do you think you have more influence over your representative than General Electric or Monsanto?

You have no representation. The Empire needs to be broken up.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia January 24, 2013 8:36 PM  

Mr. Piss
Oh wait. You are plotting the revolution smartly!


Oh you got me there.

Now I am going to have to find someone to cry for me.

oh, and BOO BOO-SLIMS!

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 8:40 PM  

You're bitching.

I'm bitching about the AmuriKan peoples lack of resolve. You are bitching about the goobermint... year after year after year. And like the vast majority of AmuriKans, that is all it will be.

You know I am right. Stop being so ashamed to admit it. Stand on your principles.

I remember a few years ago a man tried to get AmuriKans to protest armed across the Potomac. I think less than 100 guys showed up.

OpenID simplytimothy January 24, 2013 8:51 PM  

@Mr. Pea.

What I see is Americans providing for logistical support amongst themselves. They are arming themselves, taking responsibility for their own provisions, they are building parallel institutions, currencies and communications structures and are spiritually, mentally and morally preparing themselves for revolution against home-grown tyranny.


How does this differ from what "real American's " should be doing? I ask this in all sincerity, because if we need to be doing preparing in other areas, I want to get working on it.

We are at war, right now.

You seem to be saying that because we are not attacking we don't mean it.




Anonymous Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 8:52 PM  

Instead of trying to put the fire out in peoples minds, why not try to ignite it and flame it instead?

Naw. We must be so afraid of our government that we not dare have the audacity to talk "liberty talk." That we not dare speak of liberating our selves from our task-masters.

Meh.

Anonymous Godfrey January 24, 2013 8:53 PM  

An intellectual guerilla war is already being waged. The regime is losing.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia January 24, 2013 9:04 PM  

Mr. Piss
Meh.


Yes that's it. You are doing a great job spreading the righteous cause. Everybody here is just an Amuricun moron and doesn't get what you got. It can't because your an a$$hole who came here to piss on everybody.

You get treated as you treats others Mr. Piss.

Winning friends and influencing people you is.

Anonymous FrankBrady January 24, 2013 9:06 PM  

@Longstreet

In the various message boards that I frequent I have asked a related question of any who sneer at the thought of resistance and/or secession, to wit: Is there NOTHING the government could do to you that would make you resist? No "now you've gone too far" moment? Or would you submit to whatever they declare, angrily sure, but submit nonetheless?"

It seems that many American men have been so thoroughly emasculated by decades of conditioning that the very thought of self-defense is alien, repugnant, and perhaps impossible. How could it be otherwise? Generations of boys have learned that to physically resist an attack by a school yard bully is to earn a suspension. “No tolerance” policies make no distinction between aggressor and victim. Self-defense requires the use of force and that is not to be allowed. Toy guns—even pictures of guns—are forbidden by imbecilic administrators and school boards across the country. “Dodge ball” is banned because it encourages aggressive behavior. The Welfare State’s government schools have done their job well.

That said, there will be resistance but successful resistance will be intelligent resistance. There should be no effort that provides troop formations with mass targets. Remember, all dictators must rely upon "the tyranny of the clerks". Pace Solzhenitsyn, enough ice picks in the right peoples' eyes, enough .243 bullets through the right heads at 400 meters, enough .22 rounds behind carefully selected ears and the tyrant's enforcers will be dissuaded from enforcing. Without them, the tyrant is done.

Anonymous kh123 January 24, 2013 9:11 PM  

"So just keep paying yer taxes plebes."

Even easier than starting an honest-to-God shooting revolution is scanning the notice the IRS sends you for back-taxes owed - showing that you've done your part in not paying - and saving it as a basic image file type like jpeg, or even better as a multilayer PDF.

Feel free to post the link here.

Anonymous Anonagain January 24, 2013 9:14 PM  

It occurred to me that the stagnating piles of human garbage known as OWS have accomplished exactly one thing and that's to prove that Leftists serve absolutely no function in the workings of society.

If every Leftist were to be removed from society, it would not only continue to function, but thrive. If every conservative were removed, society would break down and come to a screeching halt. That is, society functions (so far) in spite of Leftists, not because of them.

Yet, here we are, losing the fight to the Leftist scourge. It would appear that humans have tired of the trappings of civilization and prefer to experience the misery that Leftists' endlessly failed ideology has to offer.

Anonymous Mina January 24, 2013 9:21 PM  

Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 8:11 PM:

Unfortunately I tend to agree. I'd go far as to say for a lot of folks, they'd prefer to bitch moan and whine on Facebook - they seem to believe that counts for "doing something" these days.

I hope we're wrong.

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 9:25 PM  

@ simplytimothy

Yeah. It's the whole "No Ft. Sumter" thing.

Don't shoot until they are behind you.

Who are you? You will pass on. And so it goes. I've watched it happen for 53 years. I'll probably watch it happen until the day I die.

They are not going to come for your guns anytime soon, no matter how many laws they pull out of their hat. Just like in Calif. There was no mass round up... we will pass on while our children are being brought into the new camp.

What you are going to see, in the event of some cataclysmic event, is not millions restoring our country to liberty, but tribalism with the vast majority of AmuriKans clamoring the government to save them. Most preppers are not interested in restoring our country to liberty... but just to survive whatever comes their way.

The biggest mistake that people make is thinking that in the event of a economic meltdown, the government and its enforcers are just going to whither away.

Personally, I am betting on another false flag that will once again rally the AmuriKans and most preppers around their country again. Who cares about freedom and liberty when all you have to do is tell the sheeple they are being attacked... again.

Boo.

Anonymous Keep Smiling January 24, 2013 9:36 PM  

I am surprised to have not seen more reference to the 1939 US vs Miller supreme court case banning sawed off shotguns.

One of the govt's arguments was
The Second Amendment protects only the ownership of military-type weapons appropriate for use in an organized militia.
The "double barrel 12-gauge Stevens shotgun having a barrel less than 18 inches in length, bearing identification number 76230" was never used in any militia organization.


So how do they possibly justify banning "military-style" weapons?

Anonymous 11B January 24, 2013 9:44 PM  

Assuming 305,000,000 people in the USSA, every representative in the house represents just over 700,000 people. How is that democracy? Who do they really represent? Do you think you have more influence over your representative than General Electric or Monsanto?

Nice point and one I have tried to convey to others especially concerning our immigration driven population explosion. We hit 200 million citizens around 1968, and we have surpassed 300 million today. The elites are cheering on the arrival of 400 million since that is when whites will probably become a minority. Yet through all this massive increase, we still have the same 100 Senate seats and 435 House seats we did in 1968.

So yes, your vote is being watered down.

Anonymous Noah B. January 24, 2013 10:18 PM  

"So how do they possibly justify banning "military-style" weapons?"

They lie.

Anonymous Noah B. January 24, 2013 10:26 PM  

"Our only hope is to peacefully undermine the support for the regime among the populace."

There's not much support left to be lost among people who identify as Republicans or libertarians. The only support remaining is among Democrats, where it remains very strong. This support will probably only go away when the welfare state collapses.

Anonymous daddynichol January 24, 2013 10:34 PM  

Some will fight for the return to their God given rights while the others will fight for the return of their state issued gruel and hovel.

Anonymous zen0 January 24, 2013 10:35 PM  

So yes, your vote is being watered down.

Vote inflation.
Do your part.

Anonymous Tad January 24, 2013 10:55 PM  

@Vox Day

Can you even imagine how much trouble the guy in charge of orchestrating false flags is right now? No doubt he's desperately defending himself.

You know what's even crazier than the suggestion above that Sandy Hook was a false flag operation? The fact that half the hands went up when asked if anyone thought there was a movement to take away the Second Amendment?

That's Crazy Squared.

Blogger Dominic Saltarelli January 24, 2013 11:00 PM  

Tad, didn't you say, yourself, that you'd like to see the 2nd amendment replaced with something you considered more reasonable?

Anonymous Noah B. January 24, 2013 11:01 PM  

"But I believe that the gun lobby is no match for the cross lobby."

Now, after years of attacking religious freedom, the collectivist bastards are trying to use the cross to attack even more of our freedoms. What unbelievable slime.

Anonymous Noah B. January 24, 2013 11:08 PM  

One thing that Tad illustrates is that die-hard collectivists will still lie without hesitation even when everyone knows they're lying.

Anonymous Tad January 24, 2013 11:13 PM  

@dominic

Tad, didn't you say, yourself, that you'd like to see the 2nd amendment replaced with something you considered more reasonable?

No. You may be recalling that I said much of the constitution is outdated and needs to be amended.

Anonymous Tad January 24, 2013 11:16 PM  

@Noah

One thing that Tad illustrates is that die-hard collectivists will still lie without hesitation even when everyone knows they're lying.

What are you saying? That it's a lie that the hand raising was crazier than Vox Day's false flag nonsense?

Anonymous Noah B. January 24, 2013 11:18 PM  

Tad, I'm saying you're a moron and that you lie without hesitation, no matter how many people know you're lying.

Blogger Dominic Saltarelli January 24, 2013 11:24 PM  

@Tad

Actually, that was dh who said it. My mistake.

While it is true that some people who support Pres. Obama (myself included) wish to see the 2nd amendment repealed and replaced an alternative, the goals of supporters are not transitive.
--dh January 17, 2013 11:02 AM

Never mind me... carry on.

Anonymous A Visitor January 24, 2013 11:32 PM  

This being niave is why I believe americans will regester their "grandfathered" weapons. They will be relieved they get to keep them. Too true...the comment about how we should feel secure watching the Super Bowl sums it all up. I have no interest in watching it. The minority that can put political pressure on the House and Senate to stop any sort of "compromise" from emerging is too concerned about the Super Bowl. Disgusting.

Christians not only have God-given rights to life, liberty, and property and the attendant right to defend those rights, they have a duty, a moral and religious obligation to defend those rights. Yes, we do. I believe most Christians would not today.

I don't think that's the entire list It struck me as odd too that many other weapons I assumed that would be on it were not.

I am surprised to have not seen more reference to the 1939 US vs Miller supreme court case banning sawed off shotguns. Are you a constitutional law scholar (I ask that in all seriousness, not in a condescending way)? I've never heard of it. Given how they teach civics nowadays, I'm surprised that anyone knows what the Second Amendment still is. Here is the text of that case.

You know what's even crazier than the suggestion above that Sandy Hook was a false flag operation? The fact that half the hands went up when asked if anyone thought there was a movement to take away the Second Amendment?

Incrementally, there is a movement to take away the Second Amendment. Look at what happened to the Jews, incrementally, before World War II, the non-Communists in Vietnam, Laos, etc.

The fact that Lanza did not use his AR (Armalite Rifle, not assault rifle) in the massacre at Sandy Hook and the government's blatant lying about this only further serves to give credence that Sandy Hook was a false flag.

Does anybody comprehend how crazy it is that intelligent, ordinary folk actually consider that Sandy Hook may have been carried out by the government due to their lying about a technicality (which weapons were used)? That shows how little faith the American people, writ large, have in their governments, be they local, state, or federal anymore.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 24, 2013 11:33 PM  

Yes, not only are they lying bastards with respect to gun control, they are lying bastards with respect to immigration.

Clearly, the political elites want to use the influx of democrat voting immigrants to allow them to withdraw programs that benefit old boomers (like medicare, SS, etc). It's all democratic if lots of turd-world illegal Hispanics vote for it. Death panels, no problems, the voters asked for it. Of course, you can't expect brown people to want to keep paying for medical care for old white boomers.

I imagine that McRapey would never write a book like "Boomers War" where aging boomers, with their powered exo-skelatons and powered weapons vanquish those lying political elites and their illegal immigrant supporters.

Anonymous FrankBrady January 24, 2013 11:33 PM  

@Dominic Saltarelli

Never mind me... carry on.

You've made no mistake. "Tad" and "dh" are the same person, a composite "person" created on the keyboards of a Team Obama boiler room operation (Organizing for America, or OFA).

Blogger Doom January 24, 2013 11:59 PM  

And people are believing, willfully so, bastards. I'm neither a politician nor a people, and I still don't always believe myself. The point is, the believing bastards are believing the wrong lying politicians, if you can believe me. In this case I do.

Anonymous dh January 25, 2013 12:13 AM  

The Second Amendment protects only the ownership of military-type weapons appropriate for use in an organized militia.
The "double barrel 12-gauge Stevens shotgun having a barrel less than 18 inches in length, bearing identification number 76230" was never used in any militia organization.

So how do they possibly justify banning "military-style" weapons?


I mentioned this in a previous thread, but most people here are uninterested in the actual law, only their own deluded versions of what is and is not constitutional.

Miller is very likely to be overturned with the next decent juicy test case coming up. In Miller, the Court found that the purpose of the 2nd amendment was to arm a militia, and so, weapons allowed were in the context of arming a militia, in a similar manner to the regular army.

The Court found that since the weapon in question was not a weapon that would be or had been used by the regular military, it could be excluded from the 2nd amendment protection on the grounds it was not conventionally part of a militia arms cabinet.

Since Heller, the Court now has for the first time recognized that the individual person - not just the militia - has the right to bear arms. Justice Scalia, writing for the Court, hinted that much more was to come on restrictions and 2nd amendment law, but that since Heller was the first treatment on the 2nd amendment in decades, it would do as the starting point.

Anonymous dh January 25, 2013 12:17 AM  

You've made no mistake. "Tad" and "dh" are the same person, a composite "person" created on the keyboards of a Team Obama boiler room operation (Organizing for America, or OFA).

This is really unfair and not true:

1. I have been reading and posting here for a long time. Long enough to remember when VD first predicted that Sen. Clinton would handily destroy Sen. Obama in short order.

2. There are, as far as I can tell, only two people who regularly post here who are even slightly left-of-center. It is comical that we are the composite person, when the remaining 99% of people who are regular readers are actually far more in lockstep with each other, than Tad and I are.

Anonymous FrankBrady January 25, 2013 12:24 AM  

@DH

I finally understand. You confuse an ability to regurgitate completely false socialist talking points with intelligence. Your breathless praise of President Clinton's wife is a great example.

Anonymous dh January 25, 2013 12:24 AM  

Tad, didn't you say, yourself, that you'd like to see the 2nd amendment replaced with something you considered more reasonable?

I said this, and I would like to just add 2 pieces of information to this.

1. VD and many of his readers are of the opinion that all gun regulations, in any form, are a violation of the 2nd amendment. They discard all black letter and case law related to weapons. As a corollary, they have explicitly endorsed lifting bans on felons, the insane, and even foreigners. They believe that any person should be able to buy any weapon they can muster the funds to acquire.

2. I believe that the status quo is close to an acceptable trade-off between the inherent natural right of self-defense and the legitimate social interest of not being killed by random mass-shootings. However, it seems clear to me that the existing status quo is not likely to survive another 10 years of Supreme Court jurisprudence. To that end, I support repealing the 2nd amendment in total, and replacing with a new amendment that explicitly recognizes the right of self-defense, of the formation and maintenance of private & state militia's, and the individual right to own firearms, subject to regulations by Congress on the manner, type, and nature of the ownership and weapons. This is, essentially, the status quo, but put into the Constitution explicitly as a backstop against new case law.

Anonymous dh January 25, 2013 12:27 AM  

I finally understand. You confuse an ability to regurgitate completely false socialist talking points with intelligence. Your breathless praise of President Clinton's wife is a great example.

I do not believe you can quote any praise "breathless" or otherwise, of Sec. Clinton. I did point out that she is by far more intelligent than her counterparts, who in the course of questioning her, managed to avoid actually asking her any questions. Pointing out readily available information is not praise, even if that information is favorable to a particular person.

Likewise, pointing out Rush Limbaugh's and VD's naked obsession with her is not praising her, it's simply observing the state of the world.

Finally, I am happy to talk whatever topic you want, but I don't think, in general, I respect or give any special weight to those who are happy to spout talking points.

Anonymous bob k. mando January 25, 2013 1:11 AM  

JDC January 24, 2013 4:27 PM
@Loki - You may want to sodomize the planet and it's inhabitants (much like our politicians), but please tell me, that unlike them, during the act you won't attempt to convince us it's for our own good.



someone fails utterly to grasp the point of the monologue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1C6kqXT9XU

he said that it IS for your own good, because you WERE MADE ( even works as a pun ) to kneel.




dh January 25, 2013 12:24 AM
As a corollary, they have explicitly endorsed lifting bans on ... even foreigners.


US Constitutionally established 'rights' cannot rationally be extended to non-US citizens. the only functional way to do so would be for the US government to have authority over the entire planet.

Constitutional law doesn't even necessarily apply within the territorial US on Indian reservations to people who nominally have both US citizenship and tribal citizenship.

this rather obvious point has been made before.

Anonymous Tad January 25, 2013 1:12 AM  

@Frank

You've made no mistake. "Tad" and "dh" are the same person, a composite "person" created on the keyboards of a Team Obama boiler room operation (Organizing for America, or OFA).

This would actually make for a good short story. Unfortunately, your version doesn't possess a motive for the deceit. In my version, it's a right wing nut job, posing as a liberal, to get deep into the "team obama" organization in order to subvert it then expose it.

Still....good beginning of a short story, Frank.

Anonymous Tad January 25, 2013 1:21 AM  

@Bob

US Constitutionally established 'rights' cannot rationally be extended to non-US citizens. the only functional way to do so would be for the US government to have authority over the entire planet.

I can't begin to tell you how absurd this is. It means that on orders of any federal authority, all non citizens could be rounded up, shot in a line up, and there would be no consequences for the government. I means, that upon arresting the killers, the judge would have to release them when they said, the Constituition gives us immunity.

Anonymous FrankBrady January 25, 2013 1:34 AM  

@Bob

US Constitutionally established 'rights' cannot rationally be extended to non-US citizens. the only functional way to do so would be for the US government to have authority over the entire planet.

Oh Snap! I cannot tell you how much this pains me, but I must agree with Tad on this one. Our rights are not "extended" to us by the government. They are supposed to be the natural rights of any human person which, in the words of the Declaration, with which all are endowed by the Creator. The government is not supposed to violate the rights of any human person, citizenship not withstanding.

In their zeal to imprison people indefinitely, to torture them, to kill them, in pursuit of the mythical "war on terror", idiot neoconservatives vigorously pushed the theory that Bob just espoused. They've even persuaded some courts to look the other way, all in the name of "patriotism". Between Obama's idiot socialists and the neoconservative pseudo Nazis, the Constitution is pretty much a fond memory, I'm afraid.

Anonymous FrankBrady January 25, 2013 1:40 AM  

My apologies for the above incoherency. Too many hours awake in a row and one two many glasses of Merlot. That was supposed to read, "They are supposed to be the natural rights of any human person with which, in the words of the Declaration, all are endowed by the Creator.

Anonymous zen0 January 25, 2013 4:25 AM  

@ dh

To that end, I support repealing the 2nd amendment in total, and replacing with a new amendment that explicitly recognizes the right of self-defense, of the formation and maintenance of private & state militia's, and the individual right to own firearms, subject to regulations by Congress on the manner, type, and nature of the ownership and weapons. This is, essentially, the status quo, but put into the Constitution explicitly as a backstop against new case law.

So you want to replace the current administrative law with an administrative law that incorporates the erosion of the first administrative law with case law, in order to halt the erosion of administrative law by case law.

Brilliant.

Anonymous Crude January 25, 2013 5:37 AM  

No, I cannot think of any duly enacted law that would cause me to abandon the concept of the republican form of government, and take up arms.

Who said anything about abandoning the concept of the republican form of government? It wasn't even present in the question asked to you.

And what does 'duly enacted law' mean in this case? Maybe a better question would be to explain what the government could do that would cause you to either take up arms, or sympathize with those who do?

Anonymous Karel Capek January 25, 2013 6:17 AM  

1. I have been reading and posting here for a long time. Long enough to remember when VD first predicted that Sen. Clinton would handily destroy Sen. Obama in short order.

2. There are, as far as I can tell, only two people who regularly post here who are even slightly left-of-center. It is comical that we are the composite person, when the remaining 99% of people who are regular readers are actually far more in lockstep with each other, than Tad and I are. - dh


Either you havn't been here as long as you claim, or you don't really know what the term "lockstep" actually means. Neither one suprising given your statements here lately...

Anonymous FrankNorman January 25, 2013 6:29 AM  

Mr. Pea January 24, 2013 3:14 PM

What good is having them, if you have to jump through loops to use them?

Man who shot dogs mauling child faces gun charges...

Hmmm... before I save this boy from these marauding dogs, what laws am I going to break that will land me in prison and a felon for life?



"Maybe they'll charge him with something" isn't the same thing as him being charged, convicted and sentenced, you know.

Even in the USA, they don't just get to say "tag, we declare you guilty!" and throw you in jail, do they?
If the judge thinks the charges are stupid, he can dismiss the case.

Anonymous Jeff January 25, 2013 6:34 AM  

@ Starbuck: You should register one pistol and your two most useless rifles. Store them separate from the rest of your guns. Then when the gov comes knocking offer only token verbal resistance. Let yourself be put on their disarmed list.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein January 25, 2013 7:01 AM  

FrankNorman:
Even in the USA, they don't just get to say "tag, we declare you guilty!" and throw you in jail, do they?
If the judge thinks the charges are stupid, he can dismiss the case.


Mr. Norman,
You have a collect call from Jose Padilla holding on line one....

Anonymous earthman92 January 25, 2013 7:21 AM  

Ultimately, the Second Amendment means what serious people with guns say it does.

Who those folks are, is up to you.

Anonymous RedJack January 25, 2013 8:25 AM  

The real question is "Do the people in power care what the little people want?"

Or rather, are we at the stage of the process where democracy becomes an open tryanny. Judging by the timeline, we are close.

Anonymous dh January 25, 2013 8:53 AM  

So you want to replace the current administrative law with an administrative law that incorporates the erosion of the first administrative law with case law, in order to halt the erosion of administrative law by case law.

Brilliant.


Close. I prefer the written law to match what the effective law is. After about 45+ years of a Supreme Court that had a sort of activist bent, we are entering what appears to be a period of originalism. I think overall this is positive for law, but it leaves us at the point where the status quo is likely to be rolled back. And that is not optimal.

I will update your original statement:

So you want to replace the current administrative law with a law that incorporates the erosion of the first administrative law with current case law, in order to halt the erosion of law by future case law.

That's a lot closer.

Anonymous dh January 25, 2013 8:55 AM  

Either you havn't been here as long as you claim, or you don't really know what the term "lockstep" actually means. Neither one suprising given your statements here lately...

Or perhaps you should practice reading more closely. The opinions held by the majority are more closely clustered to each other than the opinions held by Tad and I.

Anonymous Joe J January 25, 2013 9:57 AM  

I see the 23 executive orders in a different light. not as a retreat but as a part one in a 2-3 part plan. The Dems strategy pretty much seems to be O says nothing specific, so few can critisize, but have underlings say do all the radical stuff. With the orders, most on the surface have nothing to do with gun control they were billed as. But underneith, many have to do with funding/expanding states info collecting, which there never was a problem with. My foot Dr can now ask me about guns? and the AG, gets to think up new rules for gun control. What do those 3 have to do with each other? Well a guess, would be, I see the AG coming out with the recommendations that, on the surfacde sound reasonable, but in practice means guns get banned. Just like DC, guns are now allowed, but it takes a collossal effort to fight the red tape to own one. I see the AG sugesting those who are prescribed any brain altering medications or if anyone in their family, be banned from owning guns. But what drugs are mind altering, well that's where things get fuzzy, they can add a few a year, until any med is on it.
It explains the increased funding on states reporting, and the Drs reporting. Just a guess, but I wouldn't put it past them.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 25, 2013 10:26 AM  

My foot Dr can now ask me about guns?

Well, I guess he was always allowed to ask you if you had guns. And, you can always treat the question with the contempt it deserves and lie. You can also teach your children that such questions deserve contempt.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 25, 2013 10:32 AM  

@ Starbuck: You should register one pistol and your two most useless rifles. Store them separate from the rest of your guns. Then when the gov comes knocking offer only token verbal resistance. Let yourself be put on their disarmed list.

You could also investigate 80 % finished lowers and such.

Anonymous civilServant January 25, 2013 12:21 PM  

I mentioned this in a previous thread, but most people here are uninterested in the actual law, only their own deluded versions of what is and is not constitutional.

It is not that they are uninterested in actual law. Rather they are uninterested in government as such. More specifically they reject any government function outside of their own actions.

Anonymous bob k. mando January 25, 2013 12:35 PM  

FrankBrady January 25, 2013 1:34 AM
Our rights are not "extended" to us by the government. They are supposed to be the natural rights of any human person which, in the words of the Declaration, with which all are endowed by the Creator.




i made no comment on the ORIGIN of our rights. this paragraph is irrelevant.

what i'm talking about is the responsibility/authority of the US .gov towards non-citizens. it is not AND CANNOT BE the responsibility of the US .gov to prevent the Saudi .gov from beheading a convert to Christianity for the 'crime' of apostasy.

likewise, it is ludicrous to assert that illegal aliens have worker protection rights within the borders of the US. they are COMMITTING A CRIME MERELY BY BEING HERE. they are causing harm ( displacing American nationals from jobs ) merely by being here. if they weren't here, no 'crime' could be committed upon them.

the answer to illegal aliens actually IS expulsion. historically the answer WAS expulsion. Unions ( before they became so intellectually dishonest ) knew that expulsion was the answer and picketed for enforcement of immigration laws and expulsion of illegals.

Mexican and Canadian nationals have every right declared in the Declaration. but it is up to THEM to constitute a .gov which does not infringe upon those rights.


"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

just to make things perfectly clear for those of low reading comprehension, non-Americans ARE NOT IN UNION with *Americans*.




Tad January 25, 2013 1:21 AM
It means, that upon arresting the killers, the judge would have to release them when they said, the Constituition gives us immunity.




if anything, this is even stupider than claiming that it is all conspiracy theory to say that there are those highly placed within and elected to the .gov who seek to abrogate the 2nd amendment.

the Constitution gives NO ONE 'immunity from law' you twit. there is not one paragraph, not one sentence, not one word that even implies such a thing.

and, even if it did, you know what? the Constitution STILL WOULDN'T CONSTRAIN INDIVIDUAL STATE GOVERNMENTS FROM ENFORCING THE LAW. you fvcking moran.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/files/2012/08/moran-1.jpg

Anonymous Stilicho January 25, 2013 2:17 PM  

This whole Tad/dh circle jerk-ery is becoming predictably boring

Anonymous Signe January 25, 2013 4:46 PM  

This whole Tad/dh circle jerk-ery is becoming predictably boring

Well, if they start saying things like "Your arguments are brilliant and articulate, and you have incredibly good taste in cummerbunds", then I think it'll have proven they're sockpuppets.

Blogger JohnG January 25, 2013 7:58 PM  

Americans are probably no dumber than Afghans or Iraqis. Both of them started off with trying to engage the US military mano-a-mano...and then learned that that wasn't a good idea, and then subsequently killed US soldiers with IEDs and snipers and what not every since. I don't think it would be different here. Vox is correct in that it would boil down going after agents in their homes and killing their families too...Iraqi and Afghan cops don't do a lot of turning in bad guys to the US anymore. Further for all the numbers BS there's probably not 20,000 real fighters in AFG and there wasn't that much in Iraq the whole time - we've got a lot of vets that would be on the right side that have learned the insurgency lessons. The world would support a US insurgency, just for payback. I say (and I should probably follow my own advice) stash some choice hardware and ammo somewhere not in the house (and not buried in your back yard - we're pretty good at finding backyard stashes).

Blogger James Dixon January 25, 2013 9:18 PM  

> "Tad" and "dh" are the same person...

I don't believe so. dh is honest about his positions.

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