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Tuesday, January 01, 2013

The irrelevant Republicans

Apparently we've reached the point where Republicans aren't even pretending to slow down the rapid increase of central government expansion:
According to the Congressional Budget Office, the last-minute fiscal cliff deal reached by congressional leaders and President Barack Obama cuts only $15 billion in spending while increasing tax revenues by $620 billion—a 41:1 ratio of tax increases to spending cuts.
Needless to say, this will not fix anything.  And the distance with which the can is kicked down the road keeps getting shorter and shorter.

Labels:

121 Comments:

Anonymous David of One January 01, 2013 10:25 AM  

This all is making me, and everyone else who understands & cares, really old.

I think if this had been a plot in a book or movie 25 years I may have very well thought it too perposterous to be a viable/believable story.

Blogger Shimshon January 01, 2013 10:25 AM  

Knowing that "cuts" really mean "reductions in spending increases" this means spending will increase, and quite substantially. I don't know what the current annual increase amounts to percentage-wise, but I would imagine it somewhere in the vicinity of 5%. So, now it's going to be 4.9%. What a victory for smaller government!

Blogger David of One January 01, 2013 10:26 AM  

I meant to say ... 25 years ago

Anonymous Pablo January 01, 2013 10:27 AM  

Most surprising in all this is how little the American people seem to care that the government is being utterly negligent with its money. It's as if most people have just given up and have decided to party it up as long as they can on the deck of the Titanic. And the band played on, I guess...

Anonymous Azimus January 01, 2013 10:30 AM  

If their (Dems & Repubs) primary goal is to not be hung (literally in this case) by the electorate, what else can they do? Look what the "99%" do when things are comparitively good... any meaningful change would stir the beast and there will be blood in the streets. I'm sure most people would not prefer the legislation that comes in the wake of that, however inevitable it might be.

Anonymous David of One January 01, 2013 10:35 AM  

Pablo ... it may be that most Americans care very much, but we would never know as the MSM doesn't permit any widespread views or concerns to be "aired".

I think that many a Russian that has immigrated to the US or even still in Russia can attest how a small percentage of the population can control much.

Anonymous Anonymous January 01, 2013 10:43 AM  

Does it really matter when a false reality is presented and accepted as real?

Anonymous JartStar January 01, 2013 10:54 AM  

Even assuming the House passes the measure, it addresses only the immediate tax issues, while delaying votes on the spending cuts for two more months. For all its talk about reducing spending, Congress always seems to avoid actually doing it. So now, we’re lurching from one fiscal crisis to another with greater frequency. In February, not only will lawmakers have a chance to delay a decision on spending cuts yet again, they will also get to resume the battle over the debt ceiling that set up the fiscal cliff in the first place.

A very short kick indeed.

Blogger JACIII January 01, 2013 10:57 AM  

But, Consumer Confidence! and the Dow! and GM! and Electric Cars! and Hope and Change!

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 11:02 AM  

But, Consumer Confidence! and the Dow! and GM! and Electric Cars! and Hope and Change!

And Diversity! How can you forget Diversity!

Blogger David of One January 01, 2013 11:05 AM  

It matters if the majority accepts that they and their voice no longer is of any effect ... that they willingly take themselves out of the fight ... that they and others like them do not matter. In this case, people do promote the lie and propagate its dominance over all who would otherwise not give up on the truth and their contributions to defend it.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 11:08 AM  

And confidence in same-sex marriage

However, it seems that they should be afforded all the liabilities as well. So, they should go after the other partner not the sperm donor.

Anonymous Anonymous January 01, 2013 11:19 AM  

Ha ha ha ha. The Stupid Party! How long have you said there aren't two parties, just one, with occasionally two heads?

Anonymous Sawtooth January 01, 2013 11:25 AM  

Republicans cave.

In other news; the sun rose this morning.

Anonymous VD January 01, 2013 11:32 AM  

Anonymous, please choose names under URL/Name for future comments.

Anonymous anon123 January 01, 2013 11:35 AM  

If there were a Leonidas to lead the resistance then there might be hope. As it is the Feds will simply go door to door and root out weapons. Any heavy resistance will get a Hellfire response pour encourager les autres.

Blogger Meezer January 01, 2013 11:40 AM  

Time to work on getting people to run against all incumbent GOP members that vote for all this crap.....

Anonymous Anonymous January 01, 2013 11:48 AM  

"Time to work on getting people to run against all incumbent GOP members that vote for all this crap....."

Who ya gonna get to run? Another politician?

Lonnie

Blogger James Higham January 01, 2013 11:51 AM  

Party politics is near its end.

Anonymous Porky? January 01, 2013 11:55 AM  

Time to work on getting people to run against all incumbent GOP members that vote for all this crap.....

Lol! Tried that already.

Anonymous Boetain January 01, 2013 12:12 PM  

At least we flushed out which Repukes might be worth a damn...
Mike Lee (R-UT), Rand Paul (R-KY), Marco Rubio (R-FL), and Richard Shelby (R-AL).

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 12:17 PM  

Party politics is near its end.

Aye, but the interregnum will be difficult.

Blogger rycamor January 01, 2013 12:17 PM  

On December 31, 2012 at 10:30PM, while my children were getting their New Years' fireworks ready, I wandered outside and looked around the 2 acres where we had chosen to live, away from the high-tech bustle that would have been natural for one in my profession, at the 1-acre field with goats and chickens, and the other slapdash-rigged enclosure for the billy goats, and the rough-cut benches I made with a chainsaw for our outdoor fireplace, and the jumble of gardening experiments here and there. Desperate measures just beginning... How to assure for fresh water, electricity, security... all these things occupy my mind now. Hard to care about whether some company's database schema makes sense with their new application layer, or if their infrastructure would work better in a cloud computing environment. In the end it is just digital dust in the wind.

This is how it feels to be living in the dying days of a great republic. One begins to slip into survival mode, ready to unplug from the structure that held things together for this brief hiccup in human history, preparing for a much more visceral struggle against natural and unnatural enemies.

Blogger Nate January 01, 2013 12:26 PM  

except it won't actually increase revenue at all... and since the spending will never actually happen... you'll actually end up with a ratio of 0/0.

Anonymous Socially Extinct January 01, 2013 12:32 PM  

And the Left will continue its Obamaismic frenzy by proudly proclaiming how he "triumphed" in this affair.

OpenID simplytimothy January 01, 2013 12:35 PM  

@rycamor Funny, but I am doing the exact same thing and I too am migrating out of database design and software into what John Robb calls 'resiliency'. The fun thing is that I have to educate myself on things I know nothing about--electricity being one of them. Here is a link to an ex-pat engineer who built his own hydro-electric system: http://www.resilientcommunities.com/extreme-do-it-yourself-resilience-a-home-scale-hydro-electric-system/

I wish you well and I hope it helps you.

Anonymous Glwst January 01, 2013 12:35 PM  

Right-thinking individuals need to forsake national politics and parties; they've forsaken us.

We need to concentrate on shoring up our states, by becoming active in our statewide Republican parties. Yes, I know... but Repubs on a state level are FAR more conservative, on the whole, than their national counterparts, and on a statewide level are FAR easier for alt-rights to have an impact on.

States need to be made strong for the federal storm that's heading our way; the best way to accomplish this is by using the political infrastructure that's already in place.

Blogger IM2L844 January 01, 2013 12:41 PM  

except it won't actually increase revenue at all... and since the spending will never actually happen... you'll actually end up with a ratio of 0/0.

Help me understand this. In what sense will spending never happen?

Anonymous bw January 01, 2013 12:47 PM  

The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can ‘throw the rascals out’ at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy. Carroll Quigley

Anonymous rycamor January 01, 2013 1:03 PM  

@simplytimothy - nice coincidence and thanks for the link.

For me, database design and software was just my last attempt at reinventing self (about a decade--longer than I've done anything else). I've never had a singular career, so upheaval comes naturally to me. But it is surprising how much I desire to get back to physical labor. I think it is that fight-or-flight instinct kicking in, combined with lots of new energy I have from eating more paleo style.

One thing I note about America's dying days: there is an **incredible** amount of creative energy going into unplugging and preparing. (example). I don't think the elite have any clue of the resourcefulness of some Americans.

Anonymous patrick kelly January 01, 2013 1:24 PM  

How could anyone think a 41:1 ration of tax increase to spending cuts ratio is better than the hysterically labeled "fiscal cliff"? Doesn't it have only a 3:1 ratio or something like that?

What a nightmare.

OpenID simplytimothy January 01, 2013 1:25 PM  

@rycamor heh! I was thinking I needed to supplant my armory with some medieval tools just yesterday! Your link is much appreciated. Bob Owen's has a post up http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/12/something-funny-happened-on-the-way-to-the-tyranny/ that touches on your observation about where the energy of the American people is going.

Anonymous Anonymous January 01, 2013 1:26 PM  

Pablo - my two cents. I am just an average run-of-the-mill Americans and I care. And I know many like me who care - and you will forgive me when I say I get a little defesive when others say Americans are stupid and gutless and we deserve what we get. To some degree that may be true as there are many who gladly allow this to happen so they can get their "free" stuff, but I imagine there are many more who have some understanding and desire to correct the situation but feel trapped. As has been pointed out in some circles, the gov may be corrupt and unworthy of being in power but they do have the corner on the market when it comes to the power and violence necessary to make us their obedient (yet unwilling) servants who must to do their bidding - Republican or Democrat or whatever. There is little recourse in the face of this raw, unrelenting, all encompassing power and force. That is the problem - government reach and power - our Founders wanted to restrain is it not?

I guess I think more often these days of the passages in the Bible that describe the Last Days as being full of corruption on the part of gov. and other elite leaders (banksters come to mind). Those whose only thought is how to get what they want at the expense of all else and all others. I think we are there, pure unadulterated in the open corruption where laws are for us mere mortals and the politicians and other elites can change the rules to meet their needs. If they step out of line they call that privelege as lawmakers because they are more moral, more intelligent and more capable than us. But if we are so much as an hour late in obeying the law or their edicts they immediately begin intimidation and enforcement. I have read Bastiat's The Law and he nailed it on the head - they essentially believe they are gods (nearly all of them) and should be given absolute free reign over us paeons - of course for our own good ya' know because we are too inept to rule over our own lives.

Oh I care, I care immensely as I run my own business, love my wife, homeschool 5 children, and try to love my neighbor; but I don't know how to translate that caring into an action that will make a nickles worth of difference. All I want is to praise and worship the One, the I Am, who is really to be my focus, my sheild, my refuge in times of trouble. He will see us through all this. Now, this does not mean I want to be a pushover for all this evil to overtake me, that would be irresponsible as a Christian and a husband and father IMO - so I pray every day for discenment to know when to act and when to lay low. This is all I know to do. I haven't watched tv programming in almost a year (and don't miss it one iota) so I can't blame entertainment and distraction for my position, I simply beg forgiveness for my personal shortcomings and weakness in this matter.

Alabamarob

Anonymous Stilicho January 01, 2013 1:31 PM  

Let's see, negligible spending slowdown, more taxes; how is this better than the much larger spending slowdown and slightly larger tax increases of the so-called fiscal cliff?

Any GOP Congressman with any balls should have demanded a return to the Clinton era federal budget in return for Clinton era tax rates.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 1:49 PM  

Rycamor, is that what you call a "compound bow"? (*)

For some reason that dastardly youtube brought up a video of an oil-filter suppressor as well.

* That's a joke. I do know what a compound bow is.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis January 01, 2013 1:55 PM  

The added poison in the pot is that this will do nothing to increase federal government revenues. We a lot of empirical data that shows that it is economic growth, and not marginal tax rates, that determine how much revenue the government receives. It has averaged somewhere between 15 to 18% since WWII and has never exceeded 20% for any significant period of time. All this does will make life more difficult for those that are unable to find a way around the new laws.

Blogger David of One January 01, 2013 1:58 PM  

Rycamor ... Thanks for the link buddy!

Life IS Good!

I'm really impressed with the ingenuity, engineering and creativity!

Awesome!

Dave

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben January 01, 2013 2:23 PM  

The problem is easily solvable: don't raise the debt ceiling and the government runs an immediate balanced budget.

Anonymous Arkansas Coroner January 01, 2013 2:26 PM  

Considering spending as it now stands, to return to a Clinton-era fiscal structure, we would need to:

A) Raise taxes by $1.6 trillion per year, or

B) Pass entitlement reform that cuts mandatory spending by 40%, or

C) Some combination of the above.

Anonymous YIH January 01, 2013 2:26 PM  

Should old acquaintance be forgot...
Seems folks are getting tired of Sean Hannity's shtick.
Couldn't happen to a better slime-sucking neocon.

Anonymous Anonymous January 01, 2013 2:28 PM  

A better idea: figure out how to acquire untraceable income.

Anonymous rycamor January 01, 2013 2:28 PM  

My neighbor just made 3 of the PVC bows. Combined cost: about $10 + a few hours' labor. My verdict: not bad! It's amazing how much strength you can get out of PVC if you heat it and shape it a little. Obviously, these things are disposable, but that's the point!

I'm thinking there are a whole lot of potential applications to heated/shaped PVC.

Blogger James Dixon January 01, 2013 2:29 PM  

> It's as if most people have just given up and have decided to party it up as long as they can on the deck of the Titanic.

Can you blame them? It's not like voting has any effect.

Anonymous asdf January 01, 2013 3:06 PM  

Well in exchange for moving the tax increases from $250k in income to $400k the rest of us get to pay another 2% in payroll taxes. Thanks Republicans!

Anonymous kh123 January 01, 2013 3:14 PM  

When Corzine was leveraging investors' money to the tune of 40:1 at MF Global, he was merely applying the template used in politics. For after all, in either instance it's other peoples' money.

Anonymous cheddarman January 01, 2013 3:17 PM  

As I look at the future, I am hopeful. I know in the end that God and His people win...

As far as America goes, given the trajectory we are on, it looks like the U.S. will go bankrupt, as there is no political will to deal with the debt and spending crisis.

Some individuals here see tyranny in the future. I don't see how tyranny could last for long, since there will be no money to pay the enforcers.

Am I missing something here?

Sincerely

Cheddarman


Anonymous fnn January 01, 2013 3:18 PM  

>We need to concentrate on shoring up our states, by becoming active in our statewide Republican parties. Yes, I know... but Repubs on a state level are FAR more conservative, on the whole, than their national counterparts, and on a statewide level are FAR easier for alt-rights to have an impact on.


I seem to recall that Ron Paul supporters took over several state GOPs last year. Now what happened with that?

Forget it. As pathetic as the GOP is they still have powerful machinery in place to prevent any state party takeovers by hostile forces from the right.

Anonymous bw January 01, 2013 3:20 PM  

@YIH

YOU'RE A GREAT AMERICAN!!!

That little psych schtick was always so transparent: "please, please, tell me! tell me!! i need your affirmation (without defining terms) Sean"

Fascist Pig.

Anonymous Roundtine January 01, 2013 3:21 PM  

Ratio of spending cuts to tax increases to deficit to unfunded liability: 1:41:1093:10000+

OpenID simplytimothy January 01, 2013 3:59 PM  

Back to the meta-narrative....I just saw this on zerohedge: "Looks like someone in the House bought some SPY puts btwn 4 and 4:15 Monday."

And the only 'narrative' I see being pushed by the political sites is "call your congressman now!"

Well, is there a list of market positions of our congress-critters somewhere?
Can we come up with a list of questions that are serious and at the same time mock these bastards?

Sen McConnell, could you please comment on how much money you expect to make from this bill being passed?
Speaker Boner, why are you shorting xyz? will you be donating your profits to reduce the deficit?
Sen Shumer, do you feel any shame...ok, wrong tactic...

I don't have the mind for this sort of stuff, but maybe the better smarts on VP do.

I would love to see a screaming headline on Drudge that makes fools of these bastards.






Anonymous Geoff-UK January 01, 2013 4:18 PM  

Vox, does this path we're on change your opinion on hyperinflation? You were 100% accurate on debt destruction, but did you ever expect the govt/Treasury and the Fed to be this irresponsible?

Anonymous Curtis January 01, 2013 4:33 PM  

Curious... does this all matter, inflation, deflation, hyperinflation, spending cuts, budget, and etc., when the destruction of the American economy is being done by design?

Anonymous Curtis January 01, 2013 4:36 PM  

Am I missing something here?

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/52005

One is certainly welcome to call all this a "conspiracy theory." It is not a puzzle though. All one has to do is play it by the numbers to add it up.

Anonymous FrankBrady January 01, 2013 4:52 PM  

Aximus wrote, "If their (Dems & Repubs) primary goal is to not be hung (literally in this case) by the electorate, what else can they do?"

It seems to me that that goal (not to be hung) has long since been achieved by both Dems & Repubs. They are, on the other hand, quite likely to be hanged.

Anonymous Gen. Kong January 01, 2013 4:57 PM  

Weepin' Johnny and his brokeback bathhouse boyz to the rescue! Yeeeeeee-haaaaawwww!

Anonymous Porky? January 01, 2013 4:57 PM  

@simplytimothy

I read somewhere that congress' personal portfolios perform 6% better than the national average.

I'm sure it's because of their superior wisdom.

Anonymous Gen. Kong January 01, 2013 5:01 PM  

Damn, for got to properly link my signoff. Yeeeeeee-haaaaawwww!

Blogger Log January 01, 2013 5:35 PM  

In the end, what is being demonstrated is that societies based upon the quid pro quo principle, from which money naturally arises as a medium of exchange, cannot be permanent, but necessarily collapse.

There are many reasons for this, but ultimately those societies, labeled Babylon in the Bible, fall.

The true order of things is communal - that is the order of heaven, as demonstrated by the primitive Christians who were still conversant with the doctrine of Christ as taught by Christ's authorized servants, the apostles (Acts 2:42-45).

It appears that more than merely confessing Christ with one's mouth and believing in one's heart that he was resurrected were required of the followers of Christ during the lifetime of the apostles. Maybe true belief in his resurrection produces this economic order?

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 5:44 PM  


The planned collapse of the US Dollar and the use of the DHS to keep the lid on

One is certainly welcome to call all this a "conspiracy theory." It is not a puzzle though. All one has to do is play it by the numbers to add it up.


Well, it makes sense that they don't need all those pesky voters after they take control, however, how to they plan to make money if they collapse the dollar?

Have they bought up all the gold and plan to move the rest of us back to the gold standard?

Anonymous kh123 January 01, 2013 5:49 PM  

"It appears that more than merely confessing Christ with one's mouth and believing in one's heart that he was resurrected were required of the followers of Christ during the lifetime of the apostles."

So, what is this, the economic form of circumcision.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 5:56 PM  

After Newtown Jews lead renewed push on guns

Anonymous kh123 January 01, 2013 6:01 PM  

"I read somewhere that congress' personal portfolios perform 6% better than the national average."

But see, just as with another situation that came up recently, when there's a recognizable trend of insiders mysteriously benefiting at a venture that's supposed to be unbiased and unconcerned with profit, it's simply one's own personal prejudice that makes an innocent coincidence look as if it were a trend.

This is followed by accusations of being a politicophobe or somehow (since it can be adapted to most situations like a socket wrench) sexist or racist, all before the evidence of a trend can be shown.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 6:09 PM  

Well, it makes sense that they don't need all those pesky voters after they take control, however, how to they plan to make money if they collapse the dollar?

Also, how do they ensure the loyalty of the USAF and the USN, both of which they will likely need to prevent "others" from exploiting the instability.

Of course, the Romans knew how to keep the military on side, at least for a time.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 6:13 PM  

Also, how do they ensure the loyalty of the USAF and the USN, both of which they will likely need to prevent "others" from exploiting the instability.

Will they remain true to the Anglo myth or will the US devolve into a bunch of Satrapies or warlord controlled regions?

Anonymous Curtis January 01, 2013 6:37 PM  

Well, it makes sense that they don't need all those pesky voters after they take control, however, how to they plan to make money if they collapse the dollar?

Seriously?

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Imagine that.

Also, how do they ensure the loyalty of the USAF and the USN, both of which they will likely need to prevent "others" from exploiting the instability.

Imagine having a cot, meals, and some warmth. And your family survives.

Anonymous Hoss January 01, 2013 6:52 PM  

"I read somewhere that congress' personal portfolios perform 6% better than the national average."

Is that all? I would have guessed it somewhere in the 20-35% range, minimum. Of course, any increases in their personal portfolios is likely a pittance compared to how well their significant others and family members do after having contracts steered their way, and suggestions made *wink, wink* on how congress might act in a way that a financial advantage could be taken.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 7:23 PM  

Republicans still seem to be Israel Firsters

Anonymous Stilicho January 01, 2013 7:29 PM  

Some individuals here see tyranny in the future. I don't see how tyranny could last for long, since there will be no money to pay the enforcers.

Am I missing something here?


North Korea, for one. Zimbabwe for another.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 01, 2013 7:49 PM  

Kicking the can down the road is an incomplete description. What started out as a beer can, grew larger every time it was kicked, and now it is a 55 gallon drum. So no, Vox. It gets harder and harder to kick the can and each time it is kicked, it goes an ever shorter distance. At some point SOON, no one is going to want to kick the can because it is so huge it will break their foot. Then we will have a short debate about ignoring the can and leaving it behind. By that time, the can will take on its own political will and make demands that no one will ignore.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 01, 2013 7:55 PM  

I am glad that Obama is president, in the same way and for many of the same reasons that American patriots were glad that George III was King during the American Revolution. Now things will speed up a bit and a few more eyes will be opened and more Americans will realize that peace cannot be won at the ballot box any longer. There is something admirable about the peacemakers, no doubt, but there are times when they need to step back out of the way and recognize that peaceful solutions are never going to work against certain enemies.

Anonymous Anonymous January 01, 2013 7:58 PM  

Vox, did you ever change your mind about free trade? I looked through your blog and see you havent written about it for a couple months now. I want to know your take on this old Libertarian Journal article written about 15 years ago:http://mises.org/document/1891/The-Case-for-Free-Trade-and-Restricted-Immigration. Its by Hans Hermann Hoppe, considered the greatest paleolibertarian, and unfortunately, most likely the last. He is a rare follower of the Austrian school who manages to grasp the evil of open borders. The title of his article pretty much outlines his entire position - that one does not have to choose between no tariffs/open borders and high tariffs/restricted immigration, and can have the best of both worlds. I cant see any error in his logic, so I thought maybe you could look at it, and give your take whenever you get the time.

Happy New Year.

Anonymous zen0 January 01, 2013 8:15 PM  

What started out as a beer can, grew larger every time it was kicked, and now it is a 55 gallon drum. @ Don Reynolds.

Yes, too big for kicking, but one can roll it a fair distance. Takes more effort, but doable. Especially when you globalize the project.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 8:16 PM  

More Hypocrisy

Anonymous CLK January 01, 2013 8:18 PM  

Ok .. so I survived recent major apocalypses of 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007 2010, 2011. .... and now I have survived 12/21/2012 ... what else you got for me ? The anti-christ is late and so is Jesus...

I was kind of looking forward to the end of the world... > 20k rounds of ammo, camo, dehydrated water... all that preparation and nothing...

Just drive the damn country off the cliff already.. atleast you get the rush before its hits the ground...

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 8:20 PM  

Rupert Murdoch is a hyper inflationist?

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis January 01, 2013 8:28 PM  

@ "Also, how do they ensure the loyalty of the USAF and the USN, both of which they will likely need to prevent "others" from exploiting the instability.

Of course, the Romans knew how to keep the military on side, at least for a time."

This. There are more ways to secure loyalty besides money, protection of families, food, and others. Also, no ones seems to consider the likelihood of a military coup in the future. It happened with Marius, Sulla, the first triumverite, Caesar, the second triumverite, and then Octavius. Their legions were not paid for by the state, rather it was out of their personal pocket.

For all the machiavellian nature of Octavius he was extremely disgusted both with the corruption of the senate, government inefficiency, and the moral decay of Roman society. I don't see the possibility of a possible military leader, either active or former, using their military power to step in and do a house cleaning of the government. Not after the way Petraeus was cast aside.

Blogger Cogitans Iuvenis January 01, 2013 8:31 PM  

Excuse me I meant to say I dont see the possibility of a coup as unlikely for the United States. I think too many individuals assume that the military apparatus we have created would some how accept cuts and roll backs silently. Angry military veterans drove much of the social instability during the waning years of the Roman republic. Given how we callously throw soldiers into harms way for dubious reasons of national interest, and the treatment that is given to higher ups by congress. I see a coup of sorts far more likely than succession at this point.

Anonymous elmer January 01, 2013 8:34 PM  

I don't know how to put this in any other terms. So, I'm just going to say it, and point you to the door. YOU have to choose to open and walk through it:

There is NO Fiscal Cliff

"It can now be reported that the $1.5 TRILLION representing the final implementation of the Wanta-Reagan-Mitterrand Protocol funds is now sitting in the coffers of the U.S. Treasury. [1]

Reference: The $1.5 TRILLION represents the taxes due the U.S. Internal Revenue Service on the Swiss-based U.S. CIA custodial AmeriTrust account.

At this hour it is unknown if U.S. President Barack Obama has complied with the U.S. Supreme Court order and transferred the funds from the U.S. Treasury to the IRS.

It is also unclear if the IRS has received the funds since the IRS computer system is allegedly down for repairs until January 2nd."

"U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has been forced to recuse himself from the Protocol process or face arrest by the U.S. Provost Marshal.

As the year 2012 comes to an end, forces close to the U.S. military are reporting that U.S. President Barack Obama continues to be blackmailed by the Bush-Clinton Crime Family Syndicate.

U.S. military sources are reporting that crime syndicate team leaders include Bush family lawyer and spokesman, election 2000 fixer and stealer, James Baker, former BushFRAUD U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry 'Hank' Paulson, as well as former Clinton U.S. Treasury Secretary and Citibank CEO Robert Rubin."

"80% of the U.S. Congress, which includes members of both political parties, are currently involved in insider trading in both stocks and commodities (short positions?) as they debate the alleged fiscal cliff song and dance.

Remember, it is the debt ceiling that is the key issue and that is not linked to this alleged fiscal debt.

FACT: At least $10 TRILLION tied to the U.S. debt were loans given to crooked banks during the fraudulent, TREASONOUS George W. BushFRAUD-Nancy Pelosi-Henry Paulson-Timothy Geithner ponzi bail out of corrupt financial institutions in September of 2008.

Item: At least 75% of the TARP funds given these banks still have NOT been repaid four (4) years later."

"MATH LESSON

Question: How do you reduce $16 trillion U.S. budget deficit to zero within thirty (30) days?

Answer:


1. Have the crooked banks pay back their $10 TRILLION fraudulent loans to the American People within the thirty (30) day parameter.

2. Have U.S. President Barack Obama implement the final stage of the Wanta-Reagan-Mitterrand Protocols tomorrow, December 31, 2012, that, as previously reported, will give $1.5 TRILLION back to the U.S. Taxpayers and simultaneously place $4.5 TRILLION back into the global economy.


We have now accounted for the $16 trillion involving the alleged U.S. fiscal cliff.

Clearly, if you passed your math lesson you can see now there is no fiscal cliff."





-----------
[1] If one is really serious about understanding the protocols, then you need to read through Chapter 11 and join in on the discussion Thursday night, Jan. 3 at 8PM EST / 5PM PST. You want a "snowball" effect here? Then get busy and start reading and participating in the discussion. The MSM is silent on this. Even Alex Jones will not touch this. [2] No publisher will publish the book. (Probably more effective via net, via .pdf, via donations)

[2] Alex Jones is apparently what we call controlled opposition. For some reason, he will not discuss certain matters, that do have facts behind them, not just mere speculation.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 9:31 PM  

Given how we callously throw soldiers into harms way for dubious reasons of national interest, and the treatment that is given to higher ups by congress. I see a coup of sorts far more likely than succession at this point.

I notice that the MSM is playing all nice with veterans and currently serving military. Even that worthless lesbian Ellen is pretending that she loves the military.

Perhaps they too believe that there could be a military coup.

Anonymous zen0 January 01, 2013 9:39 PM  

Obama continues to be blackmailed by the Bush-Clinton Crime Family Syndicate. @ dread elmer

What have they done with Hillary, and why?

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, Kremlinologist January 01, 2013 10:04 PM  

Am I the only one going back over the former Soviet Union again (USSR or CCCP - Сою́з Сове́тских Социалисти́ческих Респу́блик) as this economic crisis deepens? Sure, no two countries or populations are exactly alike, but lessons can be extracted.

Who can forget that ragtag 1917 October Revolution sweeping aside the old Romanov Dynasty that lasted 300 years, with "My powers is stronger than your bullets!" holyman Rasputin, replacing them with the Bolsheviks of Vladimir I. Lenin and Leon Trotsky? Then Josef Stalin later coming to power after Lenin's death, and driving Trotsky to exile in Mexico, where he hooked up with unibrow artist Frida Kahlo with much consternation from his wife? He then got punctured in the cranium with an ice pick on orders of Stalin. "Who spiked my head?" Party-foul, bro!

Then the Nikita Krushchev-Leonid Brezhnev axis brushed aside the old Stalin guard like NKVD head Lavrentiy Beria and took power, instituting De-Stalinization programs. Then the old fucks, Yuri Vladimirovich Andropov and Konstantin Ustinovich Chernenko (people like a Russian Bob Dole) were in power a bit until Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev took over and finally started opening things up in the USSR with Perestroika (restructuring) and Glasnost (openness) in the late 1980s.

The NKVD (Narodnyy Komissariat Vnutrennikh Del - People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs) is what started as the Cheka around 1920 by Felix Dzerzhinsky, and then later became the KGB (Komitet gosudarstvennoy bezopasnosti - Committee for State Security). Lavrentiy Beria was the third and final head (he killed his predecessor Nikolai "The Bloody Dwarf" Yezhov personally) of the NKVD that rapidly streamlined the Gulag system.

"Khrushchev wrote in his memoirs that Beria had, immediately after the stroke, gone about "spewing hatred against and mocking him." When Stalin showed signs of consciousness, Beria dropped to his knees and kissed his hand. When Stalin fell unconscious again, Beria immediately stood and spat." Krushchev later got rid of Beria in an orchestrated coup.

I'm just sad that piece of berryshit was not killed sooner.


Keep in mind it was an economic crisis that turned the Soviet wheels in 1917 originally. This bunch of "revolutionary" left-wing jokers with Obamacare does not quite have the cunning and sheer amorality of that group, but I'm sure we will reach parity rapidly as the economic situation deteriorates.


Things are going to get ugly. Real ugly.

Prepare yourselves.

Anonymous clk January 01, 2013 10:07 PM  

Log says

"In the end, what is being demonstrated is that societies based upon the quid pro quo principle, from which money naturally arises as a medium of exchange, cannot be permanent, but necessarily collapse...."

Yes .. finally someone here sees how inconsistent capitalism is with true Christianity. A system based on "greed is good" (even if you are giving 10% to charity ...) protestant conservatives -- how did you get from its easier for camel to pass thru the eye of a needle to Wall street, stocks and bonds, trading in gold, and free markets. If Jesus was here today .. he would be stoned as a socialist.

Socialism is the true way to God.. and Obama is its greatest prophet.

Anonymous Idle Spectator January 01, 2013 10:13 PM  

"What's all this Russian stuff?! I don't get it!"

The point is, when the SHTF economically... badly enough, reform becomes impossible. Then scum like Lavrentiy Beria, Nikolai Yezhov, and Stalin come out to play. Keep in mind those people were not loons, they were in charge. And notice how there is nothing to stop them now. See also: the situation in Greece right now. The Republicans just roll over every time. The Supreme Court upheld Obamacare. The government continues to expand beyond all reason. Even Ron Paul threw in the towel.

Anonymous zen0 January 01, 2013 10:16 PM  

I was kind of looking forward to the end of the world... > 20k rounds of ammo, camo, dehydrated water... all that preparation and nothing... @ CLK

Maybe you have prepared for the wrong type of endgame. When the Roman empire collapsed, Italy still existed.

The dominance of Jewish polity in the Holy Land was ended. Lo and behold, it has been restored. Took awhile, but still.

Here, they want us to be constantly vigilant about preparing for the Big One (earthquake.), and yet cannot say when it will be, whether it will be, or what the specific effects will be.

How can one prepare for an event like that?

The unlucky die, the lucky survive temporarily. I'll take those odds.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard January 01, 2013 10:19 PM  

The true order of things is communal...

I am perpetually astonished at how easily you voluntary paupers can get Internet access to your barracks or perhaps the cardboard boxes in which you dwell under the overpasses.

Blogger Log January 01, 2013 10:32 PM  

Loki, your entertainment value has certainly decreased over your last few posts. You on your game? I suppose Asgard is based upon the principle of quid pro quo? How about the economy of Yodenheim?

Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 10:33 PM  

I was kind of looking forward to the end of the world... > 20k rounds of ammo, camo, dehydrated water... all that preparation and nothing...

Please contact your local office of the DHS. I am sure they will commend you for your preparedness. Also, seek a patent on that dehydrated water. It will make you rich.

Anonymous clk January 01, 2013 10:46 PM  

Dehydrated water very easy to prepare and thus makes a good survival item --- "add 1 pint of water for each serving. Serving Size is 16 oz" :)

I am glad someone is watching...:)

Anonymous dh January 01, 2013 11:09 PM  

> Knowing that "cuts" really mean "reductions in spending increases" this means spending will increase,
> and quite substantially. I don't know what the current annual increase amounts to percentage-wise,
> but I would imagine it somewhere in the vicinity of 5%. So, now it's going to be 4.9%. What a victory
> for smaller government!

The only way to actually shrink government is to eliminate programs and/or departments. Across the board cuts are nice and all, but it's not going to do it. And the Republicans refuse to list actual programs they would cut.

The reason probably is because Social Security is not actually a driver of the deficit, and Medicaid and Medicare are too programs that the GOP has no idea how to cut. The only other leg to cut is really defense, and we know that no self-respecting Neo-Con would do that.

Other than those 3 legs (healthcare, social security and defense) there just isn't enough to cut to get the budget balanced. Even at zero, it never gets balanced.


Anonymous The other skeptic January 01, 2013 11:13 PM  

Repeal the Hollywood Tax Cuts

Change you can believe in.

Anonymous E. PERLINE January 01, 2013 11:58 PM  

I thought Vox's blog and the comments it brought on had great humor.

But who's laughing?

Blogger Log January 02, 2013 12:10 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Azimus January 02, 2013 12:11 AM  

@ Idle Spectator

The rise of the Soviet power in Russia had NOTHING to do with economics. The rise of the Soviets in Russia had everything to do with WWI and the failure of the fledgling Kerensky (democratic) government to end Russia's disasterous war effort. Russia was the least industrialized European power, the vast vast VAST majority of the russian population was illiterate peasants who couldn't give less of a cr@p about politics period, least of all Bolshevism. The Octobrist Revolution was a nationalistic revolution by the peasants to rid Russia of a perceived western puppet and end the war. Lenin put a marxist spin on it and stalin largely greyed the origins with his "socialism in one country" policy, but the basic political bent was "get us out of this war which hasnothing to do with us. Russian blood for Russian interests only."

Anonymous Azimus January 02, 2013 12:15 AM  

But speaking of Russia, you could point there to a Conservative (a relative term) military coup hastening the demise of a socio-political order rather than preserving it. I expect the same results would happen in the US if tried.

Anonymous Chromoly Man (formerly The Lightworker) January 02, 2013 12:24 AM  

Pablo January 01, 2013 10:27 AM
Most surprising in all this is how little the American people seem to care that the government is being utterly negligent with its money.
-
An increasingly third world population will increasingly vote for third world government. It just did.

As for the whites, they have no standing or representation.

Anonymous kh123 January 02, 2013 12:46 AM  

One thing about the Soviet Union during those early post-Rev days was the who and how of higher ministerial placement. Iron Feliks was brought up earlier, but what's amazing is that most of those who constituted those mid-to-high echelons of the Cheka and legal system at that time were, shall we say, without portfolio.

The Auditing Collegium of the Cheka, just below Dzerzhinsky, Peters, etc, had some colorful characters. Imagine a Himmler also having several murder convictions behind him, and you get an idea of who some of these scumbags were. When the camps opened up in earnest after Solovki, the signing on of some real winners for the State went into full swing.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 02, 2013 12:49 AM  

The GOP swine have caved to Obama yet again. Someone send them a board to put down the back of their shirt to substitute for the backbone they never had. They need to be laughed out of Washington the next time they start to bother telling ANYONE what they intend to do when they get elected to Congress. They have had their last hurrah. The new Congress takes office on Thursday, but we should expect nothing more from them....they not having a single testicle among them.

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, Kremlinologist January 02, 2013 1:13 AM  

The rise of the Soviet power in Russia had NOTHING to do with economics.

I see.

Now, I'm going to ask you a series of questions.

They'll all be very simple in syntax, because I like to combine the act of proving my point while at the same time maximizing my lulz. The lulz factor is very, very, important to me.


The rise of the Soviets in Russia had everything to do with WWI and the failure of the fledgling Kerensky (democratic) government to end Russia's disasterous war effort.

1) Do you think the "disasterous war effort" increased, or decreased economic output and comfort for the average Russian?

2) (if 1 applies) If it decreased, do you think that that made it easier, or harder for Lenin to take control of the country, with his important speech of "bread, peace and land"?

3) (if 2 applies) Do you think the term "bread" refers to food, something tied to economics like wheat farming?


Russia was the least industrialized European power, the vast vast VAST majority of the russian population was illiterate peasants who couldn't give less of a cr@p about politics period, least of all Bolshevism.

4) Do you think that illiterate peasants are less, or more likely to be farmers?

5) (if 4 applies) Do you think that farming was impacted by things like the Collectivization of 1929-1933 which collectivized farming according to Communist economic doctrines?

6) (if 5 applies) Do you think that the collectivism of farms which led to a drastic decrease in crops and output of food, affected Russian farmers even if they didn't care about Bolshevism, Leninism, Stalinism, or any other blah-ism?


And finally, the best question of all:

7) Do you see the pattern of economic turmoil in the Weimar Republic due the Treaty of Versailles and hyperinflation leading to Hitler's rise, the economic bankruptcy of France leading to the French Revolution, the role of "no taxation without representation" in the American Revolution, and the Soviet Union?


Class dismissed.

Anonymous rycamor January 02, 2013 1:16 AM  

To those who liked the PVC bow link above, here is the design method my neighbor used for his. I got the wrong vid the first time. Same basic idea, except heat is used to help with shaping.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard January 02, 2013 1:18 AM  

Loki, your entertainment value has certainly decreased over your last few posts. You on your game?

Hang me from the highest tree for my failure to provide amusement to you. After all, everyone is just like you--amused by the same amusements, persuaded by the same persuasions, motivated by precisely the same motivations.

How about the economy of Yodenheim?

I know not what the Amish do amongst themselves. I do still wonder, however, by what means you have acquired Internet services, considering that you do not believe in exchanging coin, labour, or goods for anything you receive.

Anonymous cheddarman January 02, 2013 1:50 AM  

The idea of a military coup is almost comical. A government run by Petraeus types would be even more inept than the Bush and Obama administrations.

sincerely

Cheddarman

Anonymous D-503 January 02, 2013 2:03 AM  

"Do you think the term "bread" refers to food, something tied to economics like wheat farming?"

We do not know. We would assume it is some kind of ancient foodstuff, but the way in which primitive man spoke of the substance it would seem to possess strange, unscientific properties, originating from an equally unscientific locus high above the Great Wall. When Integer is launched, United State shall discover the truth of this place - this producer of extinct substances - and conquer it, for its own good.

Blogger Log January 02, 2013 2:18 AM  

Tsk, Loki, you are off your game.

"You do not believe in exchanging coin, labour, or goods for anything you receive."

Oh foolish one, I believe in the reality I see.

Anonymous elmer (whose dread?) January 02, 2013 2:34 AM  

@zenO

On Hillary. I saw this reported at Drudge. Infowars is pretty much silent on this, as is VT and LRC (blog). So far at present, it is a non-story. Doing investigations with Dennis Cuddy et al, the short answer to all this is, "they eat their own." There is speculation, that the whole Benghazi flap is being pinned on her. So, if she suddenly dies in a hospital, then there you go.

I think the bigger story is G.H.W.B. Prepare yourself for a national Masonic funeral. The guy is Illuminati. He does have a boss, and contingencies are in place for his demise. Although Reagan accepted a honorary 33rd degree, he was NOT Illuminati. Reading the Wanta book will amplify that. Wanta, being a devout RCC (fully cognizant of P2, Opus Dei, etc.) is not shy about explaining the Illuminati. That it is fully in the agency of the fallen angelic realm.

Many here, wish to discuss Russia and the former U.S.S.R. in relation to the current economic picture. The bottom line is this. What created the U.S.S.R. was J.P. Morgan and John D. Rockefeller. The Red Army would have never defeated the White Army without JPM and JDR financial backing. Had the White Army prevailed, we would probably have had a constitutional republic in Russia, since the early 20th century, and probably no rise of Hitler. Eugenio Pacelli would have little or no reason to give "30 pieces of silver" to young Adolf in (or around) 1919. [1]

I believe what one here can really comprehend about Russia (past and present), is via reading the Wanta biography. (linked above). Understand, this guy took $100 billion USD (ordered by Reagan) and turned it into $27.5 TRILLION, largely via shorting the Ruble. Part of that $27.5 trillion, secured in 2000 metric tons of gold, acquired from the former U.S.S.R., within international law. This is what destroyed the Soviet Empire. This is what collapsed the Soviet economy. "Star Wars" (SDI) did play a part, as Wanta will amplify, but not as paramount as the shorting of the Ruble. The most effective warfare, is economic.

I have given you the means to investigate for yourself. What is stopping you? You want to participate in the making of history? Here is your chance. Every educated soul in America, and the general free world, has that opportunity. Only if they so choose to...



----------
[1] 15 Brienner Strasse

Anonymous Outlaw X January 02, 2013 2:39 AM  

Log

Loki and Idle are providing plenty of entertainment. You are the Phone commercial in between two real actors. Tape a cheetah to your grandmas back. Or use Dragon Naturally speaking to do your homework.

Anonymous Outlaw X January 02, 2013 3:03 AM  

The Red Army would have never defeated the White Army without JPM and JDR financial backing.

This isn't even debatable, but what the white army might have become is only speculation. Why can't people see that the mischief has always been with the money changers?

Blaming Jews or the RCC is unproductive though. I see this all the time. Hitler was funded by American/Anglo Banks and Russia was funded by the German/Anglo banks. Then they started a war between the two in operation Barbarossa.

Anonymous elmer January 02, 2013 6:52 AM  

@Outlaw X

Who ARE the "American/Anglo" and "German/Anglo" banks? (Quoting Bismark, quoting Kaiser Wilhelm I). [1] Whatever is productive or say the pragmatic approach is not what necessarily gets results. (at least lasting ones). Reporting the truth, however unpopular it is, does.

Furthermore, what did Gatto quote both Remarque and Bonhoeffer concerning the two great wars? The banksters, as evil as they are, are not the "schoolmasters." [2] Even Norman Dodd, as told to G. Edward Griffin, reinforces the role of education (systems) in warfare. Especially perpetual nature thereof, on a global scale.

In intelligence (analysis), one must understand compartmentalization. The banksters are in agency of a higher (superior) institution. That institution, in agency with something completely otherworldly... [3]



----------
[1] Or to rephrase, what/who makes them possible, and viable?

[2] Get a copy of Hitman (the film). Pay very special attention to the beginning scenes. (Unless one has played the entire series of the game)

[3] Biology of the Beast. Specifically reference the links concerning Anthony La Vey. Also here. (little harder to find). However, view the link to the Satanic Ritual Calendar. What does La Vey give special notice to? Thus Tambourini's boldness to Duke de Brissac (as confirmed both by Parton and Blavatsky)

Anonymous Outlaw X January 02, 2013 7:43 AM  

In intelligence (analysis), one must understand compartmentalization. The banksters are in agency of a higher (superior) institution. That institution, in agency with something completely otherworldly

Hey buddy, you done the homework, so have I. If anyone thinks Jesus Made a whip for the money changers and didn't for the prostitute didn't see Satan in the changers is a fool. You are not my enemy. Satan could not have offered Jesus all the Kingdoms of the world if it wasn't for bankers.

I am not a man of great skills in language but am an artist in great thought. My language skills are quite poor. But I assure you I Know that "De Medietate Lanae," was killed because he was going after the Vatican bank.

Very dangerous stuff to even say, but it isn't going to matter soon.

Anonymous Azimus January 02, 2013 8:43 AM  

@ Idle Spectator

I will engage your questions, just not tapping them out on my phone so give me some time. However I can say this much that you are attempting to dusagree without understanding my point. Of course you can draw a line (no matter how feeble) from the word "economics" to anything up to and including taking a daily crap ("the casualties in the war were killing men. Those men could not take craps in their villages, hence a reduction in the available fertilizer and reduction in grain yields. Yadda yadda). I'd much rather you engaged the point that Russians turned to Lenin to end the war rather than to make them rich, than engage in so much nose-leading.

Anonymous Azimus January 02, 2013 10:45 AM  

Dr. Idle Spectator, Kremlinologist January 02, 2013 1:13 AM

1) Do you think the "disasterous war effort" increased, or decreased economic output and comfort for the average Russian?


Of course. When you conscript all your blacksmiths and carpenters into the army for a 20yr period (25yrs in the navy) because they're the only ones who can figure out how to load a machine gun, yes your going to have less hand-beaten plows and rocking chairs. But again, it was an economic condition brought on by the war. I can see this is going to end up being a Zax-type argument...

2) (if 1 applies) If it decreased, do you think that that made it easier, or harder for Lenin to take control of the country, with his important speech of "bread, peace and land"?

Yes the economic privations (of which Russian peasants were no strangers in peace as well as war) caused by the war, and all the other hardships caused by the war would have made it easier to garner the peasants' support if A) they would've heard his speech and/or known/given a d*mn who he is or B) could read a copy of same speech, which is difficult when you can't read. But since Lenin wasn't even in Russia, much less making stump speeches in Russian farming hamlets, I would say this is a moot point.

3) (if 2 applies) Do you think the term "bread" refers to food, something tied to economics like wheat farming?

4) Do you think that illiterate peasants are less, or more likely to be farmers?

5) (if 4 applies) Do you think that farming was impacted by things like the Collectivization of 1929-1933 which collectivized farming according to Communist economic doctrines?


Yes. More. 1929 has exactly zero bearing on the situation in Oct 1917. Do try to keep things civil, Spectator. I certainly did.

6) (if 5 applies) Do you think that the collectivism of farms which led to a drastic decrease in crops and output of food, affected Russian farmers even if they didn't care about Bolshevism, Leninism, Stalinism, or any other blah-ism?

I think using 1929 to explain 1917 is what some people would call "Post hoc ergo propter hoc". Explain the relevence to the socio-political situation in 1917 and I will answer.

And finally, the best question of all:

7) Do you see the pattern of economic turmoil in the Weimar Republic due the Treaty of Versailles and hyperinflation leading to Hitler's rise, the economic bankruptcy of France leading to the French Revolution, the role of "no taxation without representation" in the American Revolution, and the Soviet Union?


A good bell-weather that a conversation is over is when someone mentions Hitler. I don't know where to begin to explain why your simplistic explanation for the origins of the French Revolution or the rise of Hitler are not wrong, but are incomplete. They are an element of the feeling of impotent rage and helplessness that led to both of these very, very different political upheavals (one to raise a strong man and the other to kill all the strong men and confiscate their property, to name but one), and the Russian discussion is still a third.

Class dismissed.

Indeed.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 02, 2013 10:49 AM  

Taxation without representation? Modern day myth.

Powder Alarms probably a more important and immediate factor

Anonymous Loki of Asgard January 02, 2013 12:59 PM  

I believe in the reality I see.

So you, at the same time that you condemn others for using currency, yourself use currency.

Well, that's not hypocrisy, oh no.

Anonymous Ferd January 02, 2013 4:46 PM  

"Today’s agreement enshrines, I think, a principle into law that will remain in place as long as I am President: The deficit needs to be reduced in a way that’s balanced. Everyone pays their fair share. Everyone does their part. That’s how our economy works best. That’s how we grow." ---Barack Obama

He is stupid and a liar. Can Vox or a dreaded ilkster make a guess to OHB's IQ?

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, Kremlinologist January 02, 2013 8:00 PM  

...You actually replied?

Stay down man, stay DOWN!

Also I just realized if you made your name Azimov instead it might be based on the prime minister of the former Soviet countries of Azerbaijan (capital: Baku) or Tajikistan (capital: Dushanbe).

Of course you can draw a line (no matter how feeble) from the word "economics" to anything up to and including taking a daily crap ("the casualties in the war were killing men. Those men could not take craps in their villages, hence a reduction in the available fertilizer and reduction in grain yields. Yadda yadda).

You could. But why would I need to do that? I just made a nice little garden row of direct examples: Leninism, Collectivization of Farms, ect. like I would if I was attending a beautiful Garden of Lulz.

made it easier to garner the peasants' support if A) they would've heard his speech and/or known/given a d*mn who he is or B) could read a copy of same speech, which is difficult when you can't read. But since Lenin wasn't even in Russia, much less making stump speeches in Russian farming hamlets, I would say this is a moot point.

I see. Do you think the economic turmoil in Russia at the time made it easier, or harder, for Lenin to come back to the country and take control? This is an E-A-S-Y question.


Yes. More. 1929 has exactly zero bearing on the situation in Oct 1917. Do try to keep things civil, Spectator. I certainly did.

I think using 1929 to explain 1917 is what some people would call "Post hoc ergo propter hoc". Explain the relevence to the socio-political situation in 1917 and I will answer.



Civil? Sure thing, bitchtits.

Wrong direction. I used 1917 to explain 1929. I skipped the Great Purges by Stalin in the 1930s since that was not really a good economic example even though it is still important.

And do you also think that if the Romanov Dynasty stayed in power from 1917, they would have tried things like collectivist farms in 1929 in the way Stalin did? Connect the dots... dot dot dot . . .

Communists end up implementing Communist economic policies????

That's just so crazy... it must be true!


A good bell-weather that a conversation is over is when someone mentions Hitler.

I could have used Mao and China with his Communist economic Great Leap Forward program instead. Would you like to substitute that example, or add it plus a side of Jello? There's always room for Jello. Unless, of course, you think that is too simplistic to describe as economics as well and is another "feeble" example. I bet you're the same person that always screams "STRAW MAN!" (straw is farming too!) even when not using the term properly as well.

I don't know where to begin to explain why your simplistic explanation for the origins of the French Revolution or the rise of Hitler are not wrong, but are incomplete. They are an element of the feeling of impotent rage and helplessness that led to both of these very, very different political upheavals (one to raise a strong man and the other to kill all the strong men and confiscate their property, to name but one), and the Russian discussion is still a third.

In other words, your original claim of "The rise of the Soviet power in Russia had NOTHING to do with economics" is wrong and I am right. The "both of these very, very different political upheavals" is precisely the point, where you are supposed to draw the economic analogy yourself from various events.


See how we're switching the goalposts now, from "nothing" to "incomplete argument"?


How about some more?
North Korea with collective farms?
Cuba?
Peru?
Cambodia?
Great Depression helping FDR cement power?
...Israel with the Kibbutz?
...I could go on and on all day.

Yesssss, that's very persuasive to myself and the readers.

Anonymous Azimus January 02, 2013 9:12 PM  

Wow, Spectator... I'm glad I came back to read... that.

Coherency does not seem to be one of your strengths. Your garden row is "after the fact". This means "in the future" in relationship to the date in question Oct 1917, therefore it can't be a root cause for Oct 1917. That makes sense to you, right? If not I can stop now, and we'll just agree to disagree.

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, Kremlinologist January 02, 2013 9:26 PM  

Notice above: not a single point of mine was refuted.

So he's reduced to talking about how the number 1929 came after the number 1917, and why that's important.

The doctor is in the house!

Anonymous Idle Spectator, Award Winning Cruelty Artist January 02, 2013 9:29 PM  

I'd like to accept this award of a gilded statue of a little boy in a wheelchair.

Thanks Vox Popoli, you've been a terrific audience!

Anonymous Doug Touchette January 02, 2013 9:49 PM  

Sorry for the use of (the 1st) anonymous. I normally just read and contemplate. I will be a bit more courteous should I comment in the future.

Anonymous Azimus January 02, 2013 9:52 PM  

Congrats, Spectator. Another notch on your bedpost. I'd have said more but I was too busy p#ssing myself in fear of a logic so pure, so angellic and refined as to explain the root cause of a 1917 event with 1929 events. Wait I saw this show, its called Lost. Which is what I just did.

So we'll just agree to disagree then.

Anonymous Idle Spectator, Award Winning Cruelty Artist January 02, 2013 10:19 PM  

so angellic and refined as to explain the root cause of a 1917 event with 1929 events.

He thinks that's what I did...

I make fun of the handicapped like a bad, bad man. That's why I am a cruelty artist.

Anonymous zen0 January 02, 2013 10:19 PM  

Succinct quote from a ZeroHedge offering:

Looking ahead to the spring, debt ceiling and continuing budget resolutions may be even more contentious. What will the sticking points be? There’s not much left to fight about on non-defense discretionary spending, scheduled to hit a 50-year low in 2017. As shown below, outlays on things like energy R&D, education, worker retraining and infrastructure are increasingly crowded out by entitlements.

uninsertable chart here

The positions are clear: Democrats either simply do not believe that entitlement math is unsustainable, or search in vain for sufficient tax hikes to pay for them; while Republicans search for the political cover to scale back social programs and still get elected.Of all the advice given by the country’s founders, perhaps none is more forgotten than the admonitions in George Washington’s farewell address: to cherish public credit, preserve it by using it as little as possible, and to “not ungenerously throw upon posterity the burden which we ourselves ought to bear".

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