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Thursday, January 03, 2013

The Orwellian U.S. courts

Black is white.  War is peace.  Non-compliance is compliance.  Concealment is disclosure:
A federal judge on Wednesday dismissed most of two lawsuits seeking disclosure of US government documents related to the Obama administration’s claim of legal authority to order the killing of American citizens overseas....

At issue was whether the administration would be ordered under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to disclose to the public legal memos written by government lawyers defending the targeted killing of US citizens overseas who were suspected of involvement in terror operations.

“This Court is constrained by law, and under the law, I can only conclude that the Government has not violated FOIA by refusing to turn over the documents sought in the FOIA requests,” McMahon said.

She added that the government thus could not be “compelled by this court of law to explain in detail the reasons why its actions do not violate the Constitution and laws of the United States.”
Got that?  The Government has not violated FOIA by violating FOIA. That is, if nothing else, a violation of Aristotelian logic.  The fact is that regardless of what the captive courts declare, the Obama administration has absolutely no authority to order the killing of American citizens without trial or due process, overseas or within the borders of the States. The fact that the courts are too corrupt to even hold them accountable is further evidence of the ongoing decline of the United States into historical irrelevance.

Labels: ,

85 Comments:

Anonymous PC Geek January 03, 2013 9:04 AM  

OT but any update on Beau?

Blogger Tiny Tim January 03, 2013 9:07 AM  

Enough Americans are too stupid to recognize they are being played. 50% of us are oxen, to be hitched to a plow and used until we drop dead.

There are 50 million who are not oxen and never will be. At some point this is going to become real personal and lines in the sand will be drawn.

We will not board the trains quietly.

Anonymous aero January 03, 2013 9:15 AM  

tip toe through the tulips

Anonymous John Regan January 03, 2013 9:31 AM  

FWIW here's one lawyer's take on it:

http://blog.simplejustice.us/2013/01/03/license-to-kill.aspx

Which I guess only goes to show that lawyers, even of the criminal defense variety, are part of the problem. I don't see anything good about the judge's ruling; equivocating just seems completely out of place.

Judicial abdication is a much bigger problem than judicial "activism".

I would call this disturbing, but it's too common to spend much time or worry on.

Anonymous Anonymous January 03, 2013 9:34 AM  

Remember though. The "right wing" wants to take away your rights. Fear "corporations." Big Brother is your friend.

Anonymous Susan January 03, 2013 9:44 AM  

Oh great aero, now I have that horrible visual in my head for the day. I hate ukeleles(sp) and hippy freaks.

TT, I think it is more of a 'I am getting my freebies so screw you' kind of attitude from the low info voter. I can't quote stats for you, but I personally believe that 50% is on the low side from what we witnessed after the last election.

And also witness the reaction from the idiots at that NY newspaper who published private info on law abiding gun owners. They went for guns of their own. Hired yes, but guns. Not saying I agree with it, but the old saying of scratch the surface of a Conservative and you find a mugged liberal could apply here. I guess education has to start somewhere.

I believe it has already gotten personal with this president TT. He just doesn't have the guts to draw the final line yet because he hasn't been cornered tightly enough.

Obamaclaus reigns.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner January 03, 2013 9:44 AM  

USSA

May it join the dustbin of Empire.

Anonymous Mr. Patriot January 03, 2013 9:53 AM  

Oh yeah?! Well, we'll show them! Right after the economy collapses and they try to take our guns! How dare they! The gall! Patrick Henry said... yeah, you better watch out!

Anonymous Loki of Asgard January 03, 2013 9:56 AM  

Madam Susan, perhaps this will aid you.

Anonymous Feh January 03, 2013 9:56 AM  

the Obama administration has absolutely no authority to order the killing of American citizens without trial or due process, overseas or within the borders of the States.

It most certainly does. The 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force. Furthermore, the right of self-defense is recognized under international law and certainly applies with respect to those targeted for drone strikes.

I am no fan of Obama but he is doing the right thing here. The government would simply be irresponsible NOT to use drone strikes against terrorists in Pakistan, Yemen, and other such places.

Anonymous DrTorch January 03, 2013 9:56 AM  

Hilarious. If I understand correctly it goes lke this, "Gov't lawyers assure us it's legal, but the law says they can't tell anyone why it's legal. And we must obey the law."

The biggest pro for the US right now is that it's still less corrupt than other places. But probably not by much. When that changes, watch out.

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus January 03, 2013 9:56 AM  

BOOOOORING!

What's Honey Boo Boo been up to????

Anonymous RINO January 03, 2013 9:57 AM  

Obama killed Bin Laden. Obama is good.

Anonymous Roundtine January 03, 2013 9:59 AM  

A Clinton appointee.

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 03, 2013 10:01 AM  

I am no fan of Obama but he is doing the right thing here. The government would simply be irresponsible NOT to use drone strikes against terrorists in Pakistan, Yemen, and other such places.

Because if they don't, they'll be crossing our borders by the hordes, do the Boo! on us, and take away our liberty! Those drone strikes will teach them to not bomb all those Saturday night bars in Manhattan!

Anonymous Joseph Heller January 03, 2013 10:08 AM  



“The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.”

Anonymous zen0 January 03, 2013 10:11 AM  

@ Dr Torch
Hilarious. If I understand correctly it goes lke this, "Gov't lawyers assure us it's legal, but the law says they can't tell anyone why it's legal. And we must obey the law."

@ Joseph Heller
It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.

Anonymous George of the Hole January 03, 2013 10:13 AM  

Winston Smith: Does Big Brother even exist?

O'Brien: Of course he exists.

Winston Smith: No, I mean... does he exist like you or me?

O'Brien: You do not exist.

Anonymous aero January 03, 2013 10:14 AM  

Susan will you have the next dance with me in the tulips. My guns are fully loaded and cocked and my combat boots are ready to do some stomping.
People that wait for lines to be drawn in the sand are like wall leaner at a dance. They wait to long and the dancing will be over and those that wait for the line in the sand will be buried in the sand or kicked out of their sandbox

Anonymous Porky? January 03, 2013 10:20 AM  

Executive Order 13526.

Anonymous Anonymous January 03, 2013 10:30 AM  

if the courts cannot hold them accountable who the hell can???

Anonymous Porky? January 03, 2013 10:32 AM  

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information


Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben January 03, 2013 10:34 AM  

How about gun control on Obama and the government? How about stripping Obama of his secret service protection, since guns are intrinsically bad? Oh wait, only the government can be trusted to have all the guns. That great and honest institution that has murdered over a hundred million defenseless people in the 20th century.

Anonymous Porky? January 03, 2013 10:43 AM  

Sec 6.2 (c) The Attorney General, upon request by the head of an agency or the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office, shall render an interpretation of this order with respect to any question arising in the course of its administration.

It's not the Fed judge, it's Eric Holder. The Fed judge said herself that this was an "Alice in Wonderland" ruling.

My bet is that Holder is the Mad Hatter in all this.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 03, 2013 11:04 AM  

"She said" seems to be the key phrase in this decision and goes far to describe the decline of the United States as a nation and as a society.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 03, 2013 11:16 AM  

Tiny Tim..."We will not board the trains quietly."

By the time you see the trains, you will already be in the chute. Cattle prods and pushing by the ones behind you will get you on the train. Besides, by then you will be hungry and thirsty, and there will be snacks and koolaid once you get on the train. I know this cause they told me. Ha Ha.

Resistance begins with the first order given, no matter how insignificant. (You know...."do you mind if we come inside and look around, since you are not doing anything illegal?".) Escape if you can and Trust no one.

Anonymous Noah B. January 03, 2013 11:20 AM  

“I can find no way around the thicket of laws and precedents that effectively allow the Executive Branch of our Government to proclaim as perfectly lawful certain actions that seem on their face incompatible with our Constitution and laws, while keeping the reasons for their conclusions secret,” Judge McMahon wrote.

It's called the Fifth Amendment you stupid bitch.

Anonymous Tea Partmilitia January 03, 2013 11:21 AM  

executive order
all police arrest any individual that has voted for any kind of gun control for treason to the constitution of United States of America
any police officer that failed to do this is guilty of conspiring to commit treason against United States Constitution of America
this executive order it from We the People of the United States of America

Blogger James Dixon January 03, 2013 11:25 AM  

> ...if the courts cannot hold them accountable who the hell can???

At least in theory, the people. But the have to be willing to vote for someone other than the usual suspects. And there's no sign of that happening. So, nobody.

Blogger Log January 03, 2013 11:47 AM  

The principle of government secrecy is antithetical to democracy and republicanism. In theory the voters are supposed to evaluate the job performance of their elected representatives and rehire / fire them based upon it. If the employees can hide their performance, there is no reason to prefer one to another and we're just as well off hiring at random - or, actually, we'd be better off hiring people who don't apply for the job. Anyone who seeks for power and authority over others should not receive it.

Blogger Log January 03, 2013 11:49 AM  

This extends to so-called "military" secrets.

Anonymous Stork January 03, 2013 12:06 PM  

If the employees can hide their performance, there is no reason to prefer one to another and we're just as well off hiring at random

Stinking capitalist pig! There will be no employees in the Worker's Jesus-Style Communal Paradise!

Anonymous Gen. Kong January 03, 2013 12:10 PM  

Tiny Tima sez:
Enough Americans are too stupid to recognize they are being played. 50% of us are oxen, to be hitched to a plow and used until we drop dead.

There are 50 million who are not oxen and never will be. At some point this is going to become real personal and lines in the sand will be drawn.

We will not board the trains quietly.


Yes they will. You vastly overestimate the numbers of those who are not blinded by 24 x 7 x 365 newspeak and doublethink on the jujubox. MPAI is one of the truest observations our host has ever made. All the tough talk is BS. I'll believe it when we see numbers of the Marxist overlords actually is taken out with IEDs along with their entire entourage and security detail. Most of the "conservative, tea-party patriot" idiocracy will hand in their "deadly assault rifles" the day after an order is signed by Dear Leader and the DHS jackboots are sent to collect them in force. Don't even think of mentioning the Republicans - who have caved on every single issue. Most of the idiocracy can't even be bothered to turn off the damned jujubox or get their kids out of the government skool gulag. The jackboot is what they want, and it's what they'll get. They deserve it.

Anonymous VryeDenker January 03, 2013 12:31 PM  

Most of you guys expect to have an opportunity to make a last, glorious stand. But I can tell you from experience that you will never have that opportunity. Freedom isn't lost overnight. It happens bit-by-bit while you're busy with something else.

South Africans are still waiting to make that last stand against the "red menace", but it's been 20 years and no skirmishes have taken place. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, our liberties and rights have been taken away one by one.

Most of us think that oppression is about passing laws AGAINST a certain demographic, but quite to the contrary, laws are simply written in such a way that it makes no mention of you. It is like you don't exist legally and sooner or later you simply vanish physically.

I say again: there will be no glorious battle or lines in the sand. The enemy will simply wait until the liberty-loving gene goes extinct. Even now, social engineering has made it so that getting married and having children is extremely dangerous for any culturally conservative man.

Anonymous Bob Davidson January 03, 2013 12:33 PM  

@ DonReynolds

Right you are.

But, instead of "do you mind if we come inside and look around, since you are not doing anything illegal?" it will most certainly be "you don't mind if we come inside and look around, since you are not doing anything illegal, right?"

Small distinction, but an important one. Listen closely to the sentence structure used by government officials...closing questions are predominantly used when the outcome is already determined and the only pesky item in the way is your acceptance.

Anonymous Edjamacator January 03, 2013 12:42 PM  

I say again: there will be no glorious battle or lines in the sand.

No, there won't be, sadly enough. If there was anyone who was going to strike out against the government they'd have done it already when the government least expected it and before things got this bad. You may have people run off into the woods and protect themselves but there won't be any freedom fighting cells running around striking back like rebels. The government may leave certain people alone rather than hunt them down, but that's about it.

Anonymous zen0 January 03, 2013 12:44 PM  

@ Porky?

My bet is that Holder is the Mad Hatter in all this.

They have their own version of a Tea Party going.

Anonymous zen0 January 03, 2013 12:50 PM  

@ Gen Kong
The jackboot is what they want, and it's what they'll get. They deserve it.

4: Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
5: And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
6: But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
7: And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
8: According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
9: Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.

Blogger James Dixon January 03, 2013 12:55 PM  

> If there was anyone who was going to strike out against the government they'd have done it already when the government least expected it and before things got this bad.

Someone did. I don't recall any groundswell of support for him.

Anonymous George of the Hole January 03, 2013 1:08 PM  

If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there, in those swarming disregarded masses, eighty-five percent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated. The Party could not be overthrown from within. Its enemies, if it had any enemies, had no way of coming together or even of identifying one another. Even if the legendary Brotherhood existed, as just possibly it might, it was inconceivable that its members could ever assemble in larger numbers than twos and threes. Rebellion meant a look in the eyes, an inflection of the voice; at the most, an occasional whispered word. But the proles, if only they could somehow become conscious of their own strength, would have no need to conspire. They need only to rise up and shake themselves like a horse shaking off flies. If they chose they could blow the Party to pieces tomorrow morning. Surely sooner or later it must occur to them to do it. And yet --!

Anonymous Edjamacator January 03, 2013 1:14 PM  

Someone did. I don't recall any groundswell of support for him.

Not sure who you mean, maybe Ron Paul? If so, that's what I'm saying with the others. If people couldn't even take a stand and do something as simple as vote (and I know there were many who did vote for him in some way), they certainly aren't going to run around shooting things up.

Might be some good TV on that night, you know?

Anonymous Timmeh!! January 03, 2013 1:19 PM  

"Not sure who you mean, maybe Ron Paul? "

I was thinking McVei, Timothy.

Anonymous VryeDenker January 03, 2013 1:20 PM  

Also the author of 2083.

Anonymous Timmeh!! January 03, 2013 1:25 PM  

"Also the author of 2083."

Ah, yes.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner January 03, 2013 1:47 PM  

Poll on Yahoo:

Who do you admire most?
Barry 20%
Hitlery 18%
Neither 62%

Sounds about like the last selection.

Historically about 58% are non-voters,
according to what I have read.

The center cannot hold on this Barbara Streisand idea called Amerika.

Blogger Tiny Tim January 03, 2013 1:52 PM  

Don Reynolds and others, read your history. The Founders rose up after "a long chain of abuses". I agree it should have happened 150 years ago and every other day since, but it has to get personal to motivate to the required level. That is humanity. There is a lot of tough talk, but many have already made up their mind as to what they will tolerate. Every man has his limit. All it takes is a spark to light the flame. The threat to take the Founders weapons was the last straw in a long chain of abuses.

Anonymous JW January 03, 2013 2:06 PM  

"We will not board the trains quietly."

We will if there is a large flat screen to watch re-runs of "Duck Dynasty" on board.

Anonymous Edjamacator January 03, 2013 2:11 PM  

The threat to take the Founders weapons was the last straw in a long chain of abuses.

The Founders also didn't have TV.

Anyway, the prime difference I personally think is that back in the Founders time, God was getting something done that was to be for the benefit of this nation. Now, it seems more like we are in line for God's wrath on the nation. People fighting against the government might find themselves fighting against God's will for the nation to suffer, and He might just be merciful enough to not have them fight in the first place as that would be against His will. If this nation is going to be punished, wannabe "freedom fighters" aren't going to accomplish anything. If there was no spiritual element at all, maybe I could see people putting down their beers and turning off the TV to go shootin' sum gubmint guys when push comes to shove, but even then I don't think it would happen. I certainly don't think it will if God has decided to raise up evil rulers to bring the nation into some kind of repentance. Hope I'm wrong, though.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner January 03, 2013 2:22 PM  

"Every man has his limit. All it takes is a spark to light the flame."

This guy should qualify:

http://thomasjamesball.com/

Anonymous Reichstag fire January 03, 2013 2:49 PM  


I was thinking McVei, Timothy.

Which is to say you cannot think and are ignorant of Statist mechanations in history.
You know nothing of the questions, much less the answers concerning OkBomb.

Blogger Tiny Tim January 03, 2013 3:06 PM  

Edjamacator, satan has always owned the earthly governments with very rare exception, that is when Godly men are in power. From reading your post I presume you are trying to be clever, or something.....

Jesus won the war 2,000 years ago. What we are witnessing are the death throes of a defeated, but very dangerous enemy who's adherents worship the moon god, the dragon, the serpent.........

As far as who will do what when the SHTF, well, obviously you don't understand certain sub-cultures as well as you think you do.

Anonymous Noah B. January 03, 2013 3:12 PM  

If there was even the slightest doubt as to the true intentions of our would-be lords and masters, the Illinois Democrats have just clarified the situation for you. Total disarmament of the public is the objective.

Blogger Justthisguy January 03, 2013 3:23 PM  

Edjamacator, I mind what Bismarck said: "The Lord God looks out for drunkards, small children, and the United States of America." I am beginning to think we might have exhausted His patience.

Blogger tz January 03, 2013 3:26 PM  

I shall vote for the next presidential candidate that turns the assassination drones against the most evil and destructive enemies of the foundational principles of the USA, federal judges, especially the Supreme Court. These Judges are American Citizens. Call their death warrant a "state secret". Then just keep sending hellfire missiles until they are dead so we can avoid any messy impeachment proceedings. Then appoint someone who will actually say the executive is exceeding his power in assassinating judges.

The tree of liberty sometimes needs one of the three branches to be pruned back extensively. Chainsaw anyone?

Anonymous Edjamacator January 03, 2013 3:27 PM  

Tim, sorry, but no, not trying to be clever. Just trying to explain why I don't think the "freedom fighting" American will do anything to stop the socialist march no matter what happens. There may be a handful of people who go off popping their guns but once they are dealt with the rest of the population will fall into line. Like I said before, I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it. I'm hardly the only one saying so, too.

As for understanding certain sub-cultures, maybe I don't understand them, but then I also don't claim to. I just said I don't see anything happening, and haven't seen anything that would make me change that view. I simply don't believe there are Americans right now that have the same "spirit" if you will that the Founders had. We just have some frogs who see the boiling pan and are ticked off but are still sitting there saying "if it gets hotter then I'll go off." But still they sit.

Anonymous Porky? January 03, 2013 3:28 PM  

Yay! Boehner re-elected!

We're rescued!

Blogger LP 999/Eliza January 03, 2013 3:32 PM  

These are post American times.

In this world of darkness, corruption and outright illegalities, these motions, rulings are completely expected.

Blogger James Dixon January 03, 2013 3:32 PM  

> Not sure who you mean, maybe Ron Paul?

No. Though he tried too, in his own way.

> I was thinking McVei, Timothy.

Bingo. Though as Reichstag fire notes, I should have added the qualifier that the government claimed he tried, rather than making it an absolute statement.

Anonymous Edjamacator January 03, 2013 3:33 PM  

Yay! Boehner re-elected!

Well, he certainly has proven he's the ideal Republican for 2013.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza January 03, 2013 3:35 PM  

Still recalling Beau in our prayers, hopefully we get an update.

Blogger James Dixon January 03, 2013 3:36 PM  

> I am beginning to think we might have exhausted His patience.

I think it more likely that we've served the purpose he had for us.

Blogger James Dixon January 03, 2013 3:40 PM  

> Well, he certainly has proven he's the ideal Republican for 2013.

More like the ideal Republican for 2014: Voted out of office. Expect a democratic landslide in the house in two years, as republicans who refused to do what they were elected to do are turned out in droves.

As for what will happen then? Let it burn. Yes, I'm somewhat pessimistic at the moment. What was your clue?

Anonymous Anonymous January 03, 2013 4:06 PM  

@ Feh,

you really need to look up AUMF and who it applies to. it was only to go after those complicit in the 9-11 attacks. well, if we follow the official story, they either died in the wreckage or were caught, like Khalid Sheik Mohammed.

problem is it's still being used to go after anybody. and i mean anybody they want to kill.

frenchy

Blogger Justthisguy January 03, 2013 4:46 PM  

Oh, yeah, Reichstag. I mind that Strassmeier person who left the country.

It goes back further than that, though. I remember the car bomb set off outside the Mathematics Research Center at the University of Wisconsin. It killed a hapless grad student who was working late. It was widely noised about at the time, that an FBI provocateur facilitated and encouraged the making and planting of that bomb. I betcha said provocateur is still alive and living large.

Anonymous stevev January 03, 2013 4:49 PM  

Edjamacator,
The Founders, too, risked fighting against God's purposes for the nation of Great Britain. It is only after the fact that we infer God's oversight and blessing on the American Revolution. Aren't you saying, after a fashion, that the idea of securing the blessings of Liberty was OK at one time, but now that we're under God's judgement, it is no more to be reckoned that we could justifiably do so again? Is it some other nation's turn to enjoy God's involvement in their affairs in order to "get something done for the benefit" of that other nation?
Why was it obviously a blessing of God then, but couldn't possibly be now, that we once again attempt to throw off the chains of a Government so abusive of our Liberty?

Blogger Justthisguy January 03, 2013 5:03 PM  

Yup, stevev, sometimes you just have to "screw your courage to the sticking-place" as The Bard of Avon said. I no longer own my torque wrench, but I'm thinking it's about 150 foot-pounds.

Anonymous J. Doe January 03, 2013 5:22 PM  

Decades of Leftist infiltration of every institution in this country have created a culture in which morality has been replaced with political correctness. Without morality there can be no justice.

There is absolutely no impetus on any level of society to do what is right. On the contrary, every issue whether social, political, economical, or personal is relentlessly attacked until it conforms to Leftist ideology which is void of all virtue.

After years of witnessing countless examples of outrageous injustice, lies, corruption and hypocrisy, one anticipates more of the same, not be shocked by it. Any expectation that justice, truth and honor will prevail verges on the delusional.

Anonymous J. Doe January 03, 2013 5:42 PM  

The fact that events are unfolding exactly as predicted in Revelation should be most enlightening to the ignorant and arrogant godless, but they are blinded by their disbelief.

There will be a NWO, controlled by a totalitarian government empowered by an invincible technology. There will be no humanly possible way to overthrow it.

I'm almost as fascinated as I am horrified by the unfolding of these unstoppable events.

Blogger Tiny Tim January 03, 2013 6:16 PM  

Edjamicator, I agree with you up to a point. I also share many of your fears. The fact of the matter is: 1. We know liberty and freedom, 2. We are a Christian nation regardless of who says what, 3. Many current and ex-soldiers swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic, and they will fight to the death to live up to that vow, 4. The patriots are stronger and will dominate the others who clamor for handouts and our imprisonment, 5. And lastly and most important of all, we can call on our Almighty God, a God who will "never leave us nor foresake us.

My money is on the Creator of the Universe. It will get ugly no doubt. The worst that can be done to any believer is to kill us and that just starts the next phase of a glorius existence.

Like I said earlier, the war was won 2,000 years ago. This is just the start of the mopping up operation.

Blogger Tiny Tim January 03, 2013 6:35 PM  

J. Doe, they do have invincible technology. They also must go home at night to their families.

Anonymous J. Doe January 03, 2013 7:08 PM  

Oh, I'm all for resistance. We never give up the good fight, least of all when the enemy is at its most powerful. This Christian is not going to go down on the knees to Baal, nor do I want to be sacrificed to the beast.




Anonymous Red Comet January 03, 2013 9:37 PM  

Laws are just words on paper and what happens to you and your business rests entirely on how crooked and/or facist the judges and lawyers involved in your case are.

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 03, 2013 9:45 PM  

You may have people run off into the woods and protect themselves but there won't be any freedom fighting cells running around striking back like rebels.

You don't get out much, do you?

But of course, that is just YOUR opinion... because YOU don't plan on running around and striking back like rebels. Nor do you hang around with those who will. Nor do you WANT to hang around those who will.

Anonymous Edjamacator January 03, 2013 10:28 PM  

But of course, that is just YOUR opinion... because YOU don't plan on running around and striking back like rebels. Nor do you hang around with those who will. Nor do you WANT to hang around those who will.

I'm curious as to where your awesome powers of mind-reading come from, but I'll live with the mystery. And as I've said quite a few times, I hope I'm wrong but I don't see it. Lord willing, the situation will never come about where people would actually need to fight the government. However, I do not play internet tough guy nor have I ever seen anyone who does do anything but play. Tell you what: if the SHTF and there are Americans who rise up and actually fight, I'll admit to being wrong. And I'll be quite glad to be so. I just don't have that much hope or faith in people. Things will work out the way God wants them to, of course, but I've seen "tough guys" who are nothing more than boasting and beer. That will hardly last against a government that turns on its people.

Anonymous Edjamacator January 03, 2013 10:44 PM  

My money is on the Creator of the Universe. It will get ugly no doubt. The worst that can be done to any believer is to kill us and that just starts the next phase of a glorius existence.

God will win. There's no doubt as to that. I really, truly do hope you're right about people. I just won't believe it until I see it. Americans have had the chance and the ability to "fight" these socialist types for a long time and haven't.

How long did "patriot" parents have to train their children not to fall for leftist lies? We've settled on "vote Republican cuz your daddy and your grandpappy are Republicans" and that was it.

How long did "patriot" parents have to homeschool their kids once it became clear schools were dumbing-down indoctrination centers? How many that supposedly would fight with guns still leave their kids in school?

Why didn't "patriots" all band together to take out Lincoln's side and keep the fed from growing? Oh wait, not enough did and ended up beaten.

Truth of the matter is that if "patriots" had spent time actually training their kids to recognize why "leftist" ideas are wrong and showing the real world results we may not be in the situation we are now. Just telling kids some view is stupid or wrong doesn't work when the other side does a far better job of explaining why it is "right" even if those explanations are lies based on emotional manipulation. "Patriots" couldn't stop our money from being destroyed, illegals from being allowed to infect the country, or anything else the government has done. There are "patriots" who STILL think the Republicans are good guys.

So yes, I don't have much faith in the public at large doing much of anything simply because during times of peace even when we had more rights and freedoms than we do now, the "patriots" couldn't muster up enough smarts or desire to ensure their posterity truly understood wisdom and what is right. They left it up to schools, liberal churches, and television. So people who couldn't be bothered to talk and explain and teach are suddenly going to grab guns and risk their lives in bloody combat? Not likely. The few who have done everything right won't inspire those who haven't.

Anonymous Mr. Pea January 03, 2013 10:50 PM  

Throwing out the internet tough guy meme just proves my point about you. You don't have to believe me. And I am fine with that. But to make out that YOU have some awesome powers of mind reading that no one will fight back like rebels... well, you see? And what was your point? Ah. Yes. You have awesome powers to mind read.

Anyhow, yes. Things will work out the way G-d wants them to. He may even kick you off your lard arse and turn you all rebel.

Of course, you are the very people that you have no hope or faith in.

Hey. You said it yourself.

Anonymous elmer January 03, 2013 11:52 PM  

Where is Markku? Last night via Netflix, I watched Rare Exports: A Christmas Tale. Mostly Finnish with English subtitles, but some English dialog. Very interesting how they portray Santa Claus. I mean literally. The physical representation thereof. Before next Christmas, everyone needs to view this, and then watch Elf with Newhart and Ferrell and see how much you laugh, after viewing the Finnish tale.

Talking about trains, and cattle cars, which might just invoke dialog from Screwtap Letters et al. Yes, that is how they view us. True colors, and finally coming into focus. But why. Why now?

We are clearly in a new age. That is what the Mayan and other ancient calendars have pointed to, and now show. I firmly believe, that we are now in the Age of Aquarius, or as Jesus stated in the Gospels, "the days of Noah." And, you would like some proof huh?

While Christ is the First and the Last Word (the Alpha and the Omega) spoken to humanity, he is not necessarily the only word spoke to the universe… For, the Word spoken to us does not seem to exclude an equivalent “Word” spoken to aliens. They, too, could have had their “Logos-event”. Whatever that event might have been, it does not have to be a repeated death-and-resurrection, if we allow God more imagination than some religious thinkers seem to have had. For God, as omnipotent, is not restricted to one form of language, the human.
-- Christopher J. Corbally, S.J., President, National Committee for Astronomy, Vatican City State, International Astronomical Union

Class is not necesarily dismished. I know you have questions. I certainly do... [1]



---------
[1] Go watch Jesse Ventura's episode on Skinwalkers. Then go back and review Exo-Vaticana. Now things come into focus. Don't they? All this current economic-political-finance stuff becomes increasingly immaterial.

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Anonymous Edjamacator January 04, 2013 9:07 AM  

Anyhow, yes. Things will work out the way G-d wants them to. He may even kick you off your lard arse and turn you all rebel.

Of course, you are the very people that you have no hope or faith in.


Well, seeing as how it seems like you're taking personal offense to a general statement of opinion, I guess you consider yourself one of these rebels in waiting?

Tell you what, Mr. Pee: I'll retract my opinion if and when I actually see someone do more than talk about going out with gun blazing instead of doing exactly what people in Australia did (many of whom could also have considered themselves "rebels" once a certain line was crossed) and turn in your guns if and when the demand comes down. Until then, it's all talk. I don't know how many times I have to say I hope I'm wrong before you get the point, but it's apparently more than I have. Oh well, if you can't grasp that by now I won't bother any longer.

Go back to sitting around the bar getting wasted with your buds while planning your great rebellion against the USSA. When it becomes more than talk, I'll change my mind. But as I pointed out in a previous post, "patriots" and "rebels" haven't done much during times of peace to avoid all this crap so I can't be too impressed with talk about action in some uncertain future. Things should have been done long before.

Anonymous Noah B. January 04, 2013 9:14 AM  

@Edjamacator

Thomas Jefferson explained all of this rather well: "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." -- U.S. Declaration of Indepedence

Blogger Tiny Tim January 04, 2013 9:34 AM  

Edjamacator, you and I are on the same side. I agree with everything you are saying, I just believe the sheeple will always be sheeple, and the Christian will be guided by the hand of the Lord, and I have faith in that knowledge. I take heart in the Revolutionary war. The Colonists were always losing the war, even when they happened to win a minor skirmish or even a battle. One man believed and kept everyone together, even though he at times couldn't even speak due to dread he felt over the carnage he was witnessing.

George Washington never quit. One man! He never quit. All because of one man. A man who rode the line in battle, with every gun the British had trained on him, and he walked away unscathed, even having had a horse or two shot out from under him. He was a believer in Christ. What was witnessed was a vessel being used by our Lord to vanquish tyranny.

Anonymous Edjamacator January 04, 2013 10:38 AM  

Tim, I agree. God doesn't depend on our strength or what we can do as we can't do anything without Him in the first place. I would love to think of people standing up and throwing off oppression, but on the other hand, I'm sure there were many Jews who were still faithful when Israel was judged and God didn't have them overthrow conquerors, but instead protected them through the nation's punishment. I don't know if He plans on doing that or raising up an army to set things right again and all I have to go by is what is predicted in the Bible as far as what will actually take place.

It's just a shame that all this time people didn't nip all this in the bud before it could gain a foothold. I have to wonder where we'd be right now if they had.

Blogger Tiny Tim January 04, 2013 11:15 AM  

Edjamicator, Amen and God Bless you and your family.

Anonymous Edjamacator January 04, 2013 1:00 PM  

And yours, Tim. :)

Anonymous not so dread ilk January 04, 2013 4:50 PM  

I really appreciate the discussion that has taken place in this thread. It mirrors much of what I have been struggling with in my head recently, with hardly anybody to talk to about it. I have been torn as to how to respond when things get worse. However, I think it is painfully obvious to me that this nation is under judgement. I've been thinking it certainly should be for years. Now, when it finally arrives, or becomes more obvious, it really does put in perspective what is going on. To me, the stopping of commerce on the Mississippi River through drought and the foolhardiness displayed daily in our nation's capital go hand in hand. It is just getting plainer everyday. And everyday thousands of babies continue to be murdered in our country. And sexual perversions become more normalized, if not mandated. etc, etc, etc. I pray for mercy, at least for the Christians in the country who actually care and have tried to make a difference. And I pray for guidance through these perilous times, especially for those of us with young children.

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