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Saturday, January 05, 2013

Unintended consequences

Ex-burglars see public disclosure problems:
“That was the most asinine article I’ve ever seen,” said Walter T. Shaw, 65, a former burglar and jewel thief who the FBI blames for more than 3,000 break-ins that netted some $70 million in the 1960s and 1970s. “Having a list of who has a gun is like gold - why rob that house when you can hit the one next door, where there are no guns?
I think there could potentially be some positive effects from the  Journal-News's identification of legal local gun owners.  A few home invasions taking place in homes known to be gunless should suffice to make the point concerning the importance of gun ownership in modern society.

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56 Comments:

Blogger IM2L844 January 05, 2013 12:41 PM  

A few home invasions taking place in homes known to be gunless should suffice to make the point concerning the importance of gun ownership in modern society.

Yeah, if the mainstream media would ever make such things common knowledge instead of sweeping it under the rug. Oh, look, Kim Kardashian's pregnant. Who cares about all those silly esoteric things only those fringe nutjobs think are important.

Anonymous Curlytop January 05, 2013 12:46 PM  

@IM2L844
Yeah, what are the odds that this gets picked up nationally?

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/woman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder/nTm7s/

Anonymous A Visitor January 05, 2013 12:52 PM  

I have two concerns: first, as the ex-criminals said in the article, if they want to steal the weapons of lawful owners, they know where to go; second, (although this would take a hell of a lot of surveillance), if they determine some of these owners have valuable possessions (high end computers, expensive jewels, etc.), they'll know to go in with extra firepower to steal them.

Having said all that (which is partially theoretical, as I don't know if criminals would actually be willing to run the risk of getting shot to steal valuables from a PRIVATE RESIDENCE, not a bank, etc.), I do think it will indeed contribute to show the absurdity of not owning a weapon in today's society.

Anonymous Han Solo January 05, 2013 1:02 PM  

A few home invasions taking place in homes known to be gunless should suffice to make the point concerning the importance of gun ownership in modern society.

Doubtful- MPAI

Anonymous David January 05, 2013 1:09 PM  

I thought the same thing as Walter when I first heard what that newspaper had done. Even gun control advocates never put up a sign on their front lawn declaring their home to be gun free.

Blogger James Dixon January 05, 2013 1:14 PM  

Like I said earlier, a class action lawsuit for wanton endangerment might make an interesting case. It's not like Gannet doesn't have deep pockets. They would probably wind up settling out of court for a substantial amount, most of which would go to the lawyers bringing the case.

Anonymous LES January 05, 2013 1:20 PM  

The tragedy in Sandy Hook has emboldened the gun grabbers to take off their masks and reveal themselves as the socialist totalitarians that they are.

Anonymous J. Doe January 05, 2013 1:37 PM  

As long as the Leftist media has decided to out private citizens' public information, the public would be well informed to have the names and addresses of every welfare and food stamp recipient including the amount each receives. In fact, there should be an online, publicly accessible database/application that tracks every single penny of government money real-time.

Blogger IM2L844 January 05, 2013 1:46 PM  

@IM2L844
Yeah, what are the odds that this gets picked up nationally?

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/woman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder/nTm7s/


Would it kill people to learn how to make A LINK? Just sayin'. Good point & example, though.

Anonymous Aeoli Pera January 05, 2013 1:49 PM  

Did you see this?

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/03/0122219/newspaper-that-published-gun-owners-list-hires-armed-guards

The /. commenters, effete IT neckbeards all, are competing to see who can fail to see the joke hardest.

Blogger Rantor January 05, 2013 2:11 PM  

Part of why I have not applied for a concealed carry permit, it becomes public record and is easily accessed by the press and the state. It is my understanding it shows on something as innocuous as a credit check.

Anonymous Drew January 05, 2013 2:15 PM  

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgbur.html

Although there is no evidence to indicate gun ownership deters overall burglary rates, gun ownership may be a factor in deterring burglars from entering occupied dwellings ("hot" burglaries).


In studies involving interviews of felons, one of the reasons the majority of burglars try to avoid occupied homes is the chance of getting shot. (Increasing the odds of arrest is another.) A study of Pennsylvania burglary inmates reported that many burglars refrain from late-night burglaries because it's hard to tell if anyone is home, several explaining "That's the way to get shot." (Rengert G. and Wasilchick J., Suburban Burglary: A Time and a Place for Everything, 1985, Springfield, IL: Charles Thomas.)

By comparing criminal victimization surveys from Britain and the Netherlands (countries having low levels of gun ownership) with the U.S., Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck determined that if the U.S. were to have similar rates of "hot" burglaries as these other nations, there would be more than 450,000 additional burglaries per year where the victim was threatened or assaulted. (Britain and the Netherlands have a "hot" burglary rate near 45% versus just under 13% for the U.S., and in the U.S. a victim is threatened or attacked 30% of the time during a "hot" burglary.)

Source: Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgbur.html

Anonymous Stickwick January 05, 2013 2:27 PM  

I have two concerns: first, as the ex-criminals said in the article, if they want to steal the weapons of lawful owners, they know where to go; second, (although this would take a hell of a lot of surveillance), if they determine some of these owners have valuable possessions (high end computers, expensive jewels, etc.), they'll know to go in with extra firepower to steal them.

The latter scenario is not very likely. Generally speaking, criminals are like any other predator in that they almost always target the weakest members of the herd. Drew provides supportive evidence in that the prevalence of firearms in homes does have an impact on hot burglaries. The biggest risk is that criminals would simply wait until no one was home to steal the weapons -- which is one reason to have a superior gun safe.

Anonymous Salt January 05, 2013 2:33 PM  

A few home invasions taking place in homes known to be gunless should suffice to make the point concerning the importance of gun ownership in modern society.

A few mistakes too.

Anonymous Bastiat January 05, 2013 2:36 PM  

My understanding is that this map only displays handgun owners. So it could be a clever ploy to thin out the herd of criminals who invade houses protected by shotguns and anti-gang rifles.

Anonymous aero January 05, 2013 2:45 PM  

Today's criminals train stupid kids to break into homes. For the same reason the military wants to train young men. They both have no problem doing stupid and they like acting like there ten foot tall and bullet proof.
The truth is we need the address of the gun control people to be published.

Anonymous Bah January 05, 2013 2:46 PM  

Even gun control advocates never put up a sign on their front lawn declaring their home to be gun free.

Yes, the cowardly turds only want that sign on the local school.

Blogger James Dixon January 05, 2013 3:18 PM  

> ...Would it kill people to learn how to make A LINK?

It might. Why risk it? Seriously, I tired to do links in the old comments system, but since this one doesn't allow you to use the target="_blank" option to open in another tab/window, I haven't bothered.

> Part of why I have not applied for a concealed carry permit,

You don't need your government's permission to defend yourself.

Anonymous bob k. mando January 05, 2013 3:20 PM  

A few home invasions taking place in homes known to be gunless should suffice to make the point concerning the importance of gun ownership in modern society.


i suspect you aren't thinking deeply enough here.

at this point, it beggars belief to think that these people are unaware that they are creating target environments every time they create a 'gun free zone'. i'm beginning to reach the opinion that the small scale target environments are ( intentional ) stepping stones on the way to the larger goal of a nationwide target environment ( repeal of the 2nd ).

as others have noted, stories about use of weapons in self defense are either buried or receive no more than local coverage. the 'impossibility to defend oneself' aspect of the story is likewise buried in any coverage which the story receives.

and if some of these actually ARE false flags you know damn well that the wetwork agents involved have no interest in hitting a target that may be populated by people capable of armed defense.

Anonymous JP January 05, 2013 3:37 PM  

stories about use of weapons in self defense are either buried or receive no more than local coverage.

A naked black guy on drugs broke into someone's house and was trying to strangle the family Rottweiler (!). Then the burglar tried to bite the homeowner, who promptly shot him.

http://www.examiner.com/article/miami-homeowner-shoots-naked-house-intruder-trying-to-strangle-family-dog

But hey, if you are a liberal tool like Ta-Nehisi Coates, you'd rather have the intruder kill you than shoot him in self-defense.

Anonymous aero January 05, 2013 3:55 PM  

Don't let the gun control people hide. someone has to publish their addresses and the addresses of the people that work for them and protect them. They should also include what valuables they have in their home. These people have earn the right to loose their rights

Anonymous bob k. mando January 05, 2013 4:22 PM  

OT:
amusing 'weather' news - http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/05/16369310-temperatures-in-china-hit-28-year-low?lite=

Anonymous J. Doe January 05, 2013 4:23 PM  

The media is an unaccountable, unelected, arm of this fascist government. It is also relatively unprotected. That newspaper has an office somewhere. Their Leftist tactics should be met with severe intended consequences.

Blogger Baloo January 05, 2013 4:35 PM  

J. Doe, yes, except for your terminology. This government would have to become a lot more decent, sensible, and patriotic before it could be even slightly worthy of the term "fascist."
Fascism-Shmashism

Blogger IM2L844 January 05, 2013 5:09 PM  

It might. Why risk it? Seriously, I tired to do links in the old comments system, but since this one doesn't allow you to use the target="_blank" option to open in another tab/window, I haven't bothered.

Ha! I guess those highfalutin web browsing thingamajigs equipped with those fancy back button doohickeys are still beyond the realm of most common folk.

Anonymous zen0 January 05, 2013 5:09 PM  

...Would it kill people to learn how to make A LINK?

I did, and do it most the time. Recently, however, I found that one could highlight the link and right clik "open link".

Seems to work.

Anonymous All gun grabbers need killing January 05, 2013 5:26 PM  

Inmates using newspaper's gun owner map to threaten guards, sheriff says

Blogger IM2L844 January 05, 2013 6:19 PM  

I did, and do it most the time. Recently, however, I found that one could highlight the link and right clik "open link".

Yup. I'm having a "right click" issue on my mouse with Linux that is making me even harder to get along with than usual. No matter. I'm about to shitcan this whole rig in a few days. It's mostly held together with duct tape, bailing wire, and chewing gum anyway. But my new build is going to be chock full of unadulterated AWESOMENESS and balance will once again be restored to the universe...I think.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation (Ben) January 05, 2013 6:30 PM  

I love in Rockland County NY. The Journal News is on its way out. The paper has been getting smaller and smaller over the years and they've been sending direct mail begging my family to subscribe to their piece of garbage newspaper.

The paper will be going out of business if the trend continues, which I have no reason to doubt.

Anonymous FSU January 05, 2013 6:34 PM  

@VD

There's that Ponder elbow and injury thing from college for ya.
You're welcome.

Anonymous The other skeptic January 05, 2013 8:58 PM  

Drug companies pay big dollars to promote vaccines

Blogger James Dixon January 05, 2013 9:24 PM  

> I'm having a "right click" issue on my mouse with Linux...

Which distro do you use?

Anonymous Kriston January 05, 2013 9:49 PM  

> I'm having a "right click" issue on my mouse with Linux...

Which distro do you use?


And which desktop?

Anonymous dh January 05, 2013 11:18 PM  

> at this point, it beggars belief to think that these people are unaware that they are creating target
> environments every time they create a 'gun free zone'. i'm beginning to reach the opinion that the
> small scale target environments are ( intentional ) stepping stones on the way to the larger goal of
> a nationwide target environment ( repeal of the 2nd ).

This isn't exactly a secret. A lot of people in this country want all guns gone. A gun free country. There is a second group with lots of overlap who would just as well have handguns banned and gone, and leaving bolt-action and other types of hunting rifles as is.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 05, 2013 11:25 PM  

Vox, now we have a "lawyer's full employment act". Now anytime a person is burglarized (or worse) that was not mentioned as a gun owner, now the newspaper is complicit in the crime, before the fact. In fact, it could be argued, that the newspaper was knowingly or unknowingly aiding and abetting the criminal element and shares any blame for what happens to those defenseless households.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 05, 2013 11:34 PM  

In a city near Chicago recently, two teenage black males broke into a house about 2am and proceeded to find what they could to steal. Apparently, this was done with very little forethought because one of the local police officers lived there with his family. When the police officer came out of his bedroom and saw what was happening, one of the teenage black males pointed a pistol at him....whereupon he started shooting and killed both of them. Only then was it discovered that the pistol pointed at the police officer was not loaded.

Of course, the mother of one of the dead was quickly on television crying about how her boy was a good boy and never got into any trouble. Since the pistol was not loaded, the "community leaders" are demanding that the police officer be charged with two counts of MURDER. No word yet on whether the local district attorney is considering charges.

I realize Vox has little use for the police, but regardless of his occupation, this could easily have happened to any one of us here.

Anonymous oregon mouse January 05, 2013 11:47 PM  

"a class action lawsuit for wanton endangerment might make an interesting case"
I read on John Lott's website that he had been contacted by a couple of women in the three counties who had restraining orders out on their ex's and were in hiding. Considering that these women belong to a sympathetic victim group, the paper set itself up if anything happens to them. Totally predictable if anyone at that paper had bothered to consider the consequences of their actions.

Anonymous bob k. mando January 06, 2013 12:48 AM  

This isn't exactly a secret. A lot of people in this country want all guns gone. A gun free country.

of course THAT'S not a secret. leftists and feminists of all stripes have been openly trying to do that for 50 years. they've actually succeeded in most of the western world already.

i'm not talking about the goal/end point, i'm talking about the road map and media control they're using to get there within the US.

and i'm not going to explain it again if you don't grasp the difference. reread my first post.



I realize Vox has little use for the police, but regardless of his occupation, this could easily have happened to any one of us here

of course there's no question that the break in could have happened to ANY of us. the problem that Vox has been pointing out for years is that where most of us would almost certainly be facing prosecution had we defended ourselves in such a fashion in the Chicago area, the off duty cop is likely to get off without comment.

the problem is the abuse of power and privilege and basic inequality before the law. in that case, that doesn't even have anything to do with the particular cop. instead, it's the prosecutor.

Blogger IM2L844 January 06, 2013 3:15 AM  

Which distro do you use?

And which desktop?


For now, Ubuntu 12.04 and LXDE, but it might be fine with my new ASUS P8Z77-V Pro/Thunderbolt with an i7 3770 CPU and an Intel 520 SSD and G.Skill Trident X series 2400 RAM. I'm just waiting on Newegg for my SSD and I'll be in business...unless I screw something up which isn't unheard of.

Blogger James Higham January 06, 2013 6:14 AM  

I think there could potentially be some positive effects from the Journal-News's identification of legal local gun owners. A few home invasions taking place in homes known to be gunless should suffice to make the point concerning the importance of gun ownership in modern society.

That's one way of looking at it.

Anonymous Susan January 06, 2013 8:58 AM  

J.Doe--

Somebody created a map with the names and addresses of the employees of that newspaper and put it on their blog. Don't know the name of blog.

The newspaper is feeling threatened by the citizen pushback from their publishing stupidity and hired armed guards for their building. So I guess its ok yet again for libs to have guns for protection, but not us regular folk.

I found this article amusing.

Blogger James Dixon January 06, 2013 9:11 AM  

> For now, Ubuntu 12.04 and LXDE,

Well, that's two problems right there. :) Seriously, the only LXDE right click mouse problem I could find with a quick search was from two years ago, and involved the desktop menu itself.

But if you want a Debain family distro, give Mint a try on your next system. People seem to like it a lot better than Ubuntu these days.

Blogger IM2L844 January 06, 2013 10:33 AM  

Well, that's two problems right there. :)

Yeah. I've just been exploring the Linux world for a couple of months and have tried a couple of different things. I was excited about it at first, but, after the new smell wore off, I wasn't all that impressed with any of the Debian distros I've tried so far. I do like the shell command line features though. for instance, things like being able to create a RAM drive in about 15 seconds is very cool. Linux is a bigger world than I had imagined.

Lots of options out there. I'll give Mint a whirl, but it might be time to explore the Fedora side of things as well. In any event, I've got to give Windows 7 a fair shake too. I've been plugging along with 32 bit XP for so long, it didn't really seem worth the trouble (because I can be really lazy about things if they don't peak my interest) to switch to anything else until Microsoft started to phase out support for it.

Oh well, it's been kind of fun to dive back into the more technical side of personal computing after so long and rediscover my inner geek. Thanks for the tip.

Anonymous Kickass January 06, 2013 10:39 AM  

Ok, gotta say...I was a Journalist. At the time you had to have three sources, and you had to have backup if the legal department had a question or there became a problem after the article was published. One time I did an interview where the person was high ranking in a tech company and made a statement that was outrageous. My Editor contacted me that we couldn't print it. I always tape all my interviews and say the time, date, etc and have the person agree on the recording that they are being interviewed for publication. I played it for him and he said that legal wouldn't have a problem and we went to print.

I think that what this paper did was SHIT. There used to be Journalists who did the combined work of Detectives and Lawyers. I haven't seen one in quite awhile. I honestly don't know how this got past legal unless there are much larger things afoot. There appears to be.

And before someone starts, yes there was always bias. I was not a lefty but worked at many places that were. It didn't change my integrity, it made me more cunning.

Anonymous Kickass January 06, 2013 10:40 AM  

@ Susan, I read about that blog as well. It will be interesting to see what happens with that.

Push back has already began. Prison guards are being threatened by prisoners with the map.

Anonymous harry12 January 06, 2013 10:41 AM  

The other skeptic January 05, 2013 8:58 PM:
Drug companies pay big dollars to promote vaccines.


I have noticed several recent articles concerning a possibly bad upcoming flu season. ( This news was attributed to "experts", so it must be true. /s )

Seems to mesh with the "Vomit Cruises", eh?

Anonymous Kickass January 06, 2013 11:51 AM  

@ Harry12 see Drudge today. Apparently there is an epidemic that killed 18 children so far. The epidemic not only includes a strain that is not in the current vaccine, but those who are vaccinated are also getting it.

Anonymous harry12 January 06, 2013 11:59 AM  

Kickass January 06, 2013 11:51 AM:
@ Harry12 see Drudge today. Apparently there is an epidemic that killed 18 children so far. The epidemic not only includes a strain that is not in the current vaccine, but those who are vaccinated are also getting it.


I don't wish to get too far OT, but this does bring to (my) mind some of Nate's posts.



Anonymous TD January 06, 2013 3:17 PM  

The epidemic not only includes a strain that is not in the current vaccine, but those who are vaccinated are also getting it.

I may be misreading something here, but why the "but"? Isn't it accurate to say:

The epidemic includes a strain that is not in the current vaccine, and so those who are vaccinated are also getting it.

Anonymous Kickass January 06, 2013 6:00 PM  

@ TD no. @ harry 12...interesting.

Anonymous Curlytop January 06, 2013 6:31 PM  

TD January 06, 2013 3:17 PM
"The epidemic includes a strain that is not in the current vaccine, and so those who are vaccinated are also getting it."

Yet, the media is spinning it as though the problem is those who don't vaccinate. I have a close friend living in the Ohio Valley area whose in health care and she emphatically says this is hitting those vaccinated just as hard. And this is not a friend who is anti-vaccine per se...

Anonymous Mina January 06, 2013 7:19 PM  

For now, Ubuntu 12.04 and LXDE, but it might be fine with my new ASUS P8Z77-V Pro/Thunderbolt with an i7 3770 CPU and an Intel 520 SSD and G.Skill Trident X series 2400 RAM. I'm just waiting on Newegg for my SSD and I'll be in business

dude! gnarly!!

I love Ubuntu 12.x and it will surely run even better on your new setup than the old laptop I pulled off my corp's garbage pile 4 years ago.

Anonymous CaptDMO January 07, 2013 1:59 AM  

dh January 05, 2013 11:18 PM

...This isn't exactly a secret. A lot of people in this country want all guns gone. A gun free country.

But..but...I'm told that such folks are only suggesting "sensible" camel nose access into the tent!

I'm sure "modern interpretation" of what affirmative action actually means will have no consequence in gangs of (fill in the blank from AA/VAWA "special considerations") "wilding", or "But the gun wasn't loaded..." (in areas where sentancing is based on per-bullet posession during violent crime perpetration), as the reintroduction of legal 30 round clips did.

And yes, about those "unregistered" citizens/home addresses in the Republic, with street sweepers/AR's/AK's/"The Judge"/.357s.
It just means jail for those of behavior "unexpectedly" deemed felonious,(like pissing outdoors, where a "child" MIGHT have seen ones wee-wee) for threatening "access" to tolerance and compassion of potential Liberal/Socialist/"voters" in the delusion of US "democracy".

Blogger Log January 07, 2013 4:03 AM  

Speaking of unintended consequences, it appears Christian hypocrisy has some too.

Blogger James Dixon January 07, 2013 4:19 PM  

> I'll give Mint a whirl, but it might be time to explore the Fedora side of things as well.

Fair warning, Fedora is in a bit of flux at the moment. Fedora 18 has been delayed several times, and the earliest it will be out will be the middle of this month. You might want to wait a month or two to start playing with it.

Anonymous Gould K. L. Brownlee January 07, 2013 11:40 PM  

What will happen though is that gun owners' houses will be targeted. They go into these houses when they know no one is home. There are enough scumbags out there who will figure out a way. It's an evil day when the newspapers finger the solid citizens for the criminals. But most Leftists are just common criminals anyway.

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