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Thursday, February 21, 2013

Mailvox: which is worse, work or rape?

A drive-by commenter throws out a few questions:
women don't have to stay home and breed simply because it intimidates you that we're in the workforce. What about the fact that women may wish to work and be very capable of doing so. Are you saying women are less intelligent than men? Is there any reason that a man couldn't stay home and provide childcare if that is best suited to a family? 
1) True.  Women don't have to stay home and breed because it intimidates anyone that they are in the workforce, about two-thirds of them have to stay home and breed in order to prevent society from either collapsing into demographic and economic ruin or being transformed by the imported replacement workers into a third world society.  The birthrate has already fallen well below replacement level without the rate of female employment even drawing completely even with the male employment rate; one wonders how low it would go if all women were required to enter the workforce.

One can look to Londonistan if one requires an example of this process at work: "[F]or the first time, white Britons are now in a minority in the country’s largest city.... White Britons now make up 45 per cent of the population, compared with 58 per cent in 2001.  London’s population has been boosted by immigrants. Three million foreign-born people now live in the capital.  

2) The fact that women may wish to work and are very capable of working no more implies that they should always be encouraged to do so anymore than the fact that men may wish to rape and are very capable of raping means that they should always be encouraged to do so.  The ironic, but logically inescapable fact is that encouraging men to rape would be considerably less damaging to a society than encouraging women to enter the workforce en masse.  Widespread rape makes a society uncivilized.  Widespread female employment makes a society demographically unsustainable.  History demonstrates that incivility can be survived and surmounted.  Unsustainability, on the other hand, cannot.

3) Are women less intelligent than men?  On average, no.  In terms of the highest standard deviations, yes.  However, I think it is readily apparent that both men and women are to blame for constructing an equalitarian society that, in terms of intelligence, doesn't even rise to the ability of a dog to avoid defecating in its own bed and staying off the railroad tracks.

4) Yes, there are a number of reasons that a man cannot stay home and provide childcare.  The three most important are that a) most men don't want to provide childcare, b) most women don't want to work to support a man, and c) doing so significantly increases the probability that his wife will stop being attracted to him and his marriage will fail.  A woman simply OUTEARNING her husband increases the risk of divorce by 50 percent; this implies that it is untenable to expect women to be willing to completely support their families.  But certainly, if there are women who dream of marrying men who will stay home and play video games with the children while they work 60 hours per week to support the family, there is no reason they should be barred from doing so. 

I tend to doubt there are enough of these hard-working snowflakes to be of any statistical, let alone demographic, significance to society.

Labels: ,

173 Comments:

Anonymous Idle Spectator February 21, 2013 4:53 AM  

The worst is surprise rape while at work.

Blogger Markku February 21, 2013 5:00 AM  

I resent that poor gay black children didn't get their $5 when it would have been SO easy.

Blogger Doom February 21, 2013 5:11 AM  

I see you took on anony.

I didn't bother. First, she was anonymous (or so she thinks). Second, she was arguing from the point that her rare exception was an exception, while it isn't, it is the rule (that women can work). There was another reason I didn't bother, if I can't recall off hand. She is a woman, but I do try with women, sometimes. Funny thing is, none of my comment that spurred her hissy fit was aimed at her, but typical solipsism kicked in and she was there, on the feminist front lines, burning her proverbial bra. Just so's you know.

As to your answers? Well... yeah. Pretty much. My considered but withheld reply was along those lines if I would have missed a point or two until or unless another reply was needed. I would have been more brief though, it's a woman, wouldn't have mattered once she gets her cackles on edge. *hiss* hehehe

Well, okay, you got me on the whole rape versus work thing. I'll file that away though. Genius, and true. I'm going to have to remember that gloves are off. I'm such a softy.

Anonymous JACIII February 21, 2013 5:15 AM  

As has been said; they always attack with what matters to them most. So, when in constant danger of an ass whoopin' from any random 12 year old fat kid "intimidation" is a big factor.

Blogger Rantor February 21, 2013 5:22 AM  

Rabbits will be hopping. Hopefully they will wake soon and provide entertainment.

Anonymous Faust February 21, 2013 5:33 AM  

Vox-

What are some civilizations that have collapsed due to a low birthrate? Rome comes to mind, are there others?

Anonymous kh123 February 21, 2013 5:35 AM  

Rape: Less socially destructive than Feminism.

Feminism: Halting reproduction in earnest since the 1960's

-or-

Feminism: Suffraging fools gladly since the turn of the 20th Century.

Anonymous General Butt Naked, channeling Margaret Sanger February 21, 2013 5:38 AM  

Children: They're what's for dinner.

Anonymous TJIC February 21, 2013 5:53 AM  

> Are women less intelligent than men? On average, no. In terms of the highest standard deviations, yes.

McRapey's head just exploded.

...because that's what happens to leftists when they hear something that (a) is a thoughtcrime, (b) is true.

Side note: as a super precocious kid, I was a hard line leftist. I blame Isaac Asimov and his beguiling technocratic worldview.

...but as I grew up I learned a bit more about the real world and was forced to first question, and then discard large swaths of of BlueThink.

Whenever I see a good leftist who still clings bitterly to his crazy theology I'm amazed. Are these people too stupid to see the world around them, or are they so delusional they think that if they keep thinking happy rabbit thoughts the world will reshape itself to meet their fantasies?

Anonymous Stilicho February 21, 2013 6:19 AM  

It's official: Dr. Who is a bona fide snowflake.

Anonymous OCS February 21, 2013 6:39 AM  

I wonder how quick this will be taken purposely out of context with the rabbits chanting in their mod_rewrite module, "OMG Vox thinks raping womyn is better than having them work!! LOL who is the rapey mcraperson now?!"

Anonymous DrTorch February 21, 2013 6:49 AM  

I thought you left out the most obvious reason women stay home and breed: they like it better.

Anonymous is intimidated by the workplace and requires the support of the warren, meanwhile she ignores the obvious point that she'd be happy, contented and not intimidated simply by doing her best at home.

Anonymous RedJack February 21, 2013 7:00 AM  

Faust,
Greece is another. Low birth rate, abortion, wipespread homosexuality, and to much luxery were all listed as the classicial reasons for Greece losing its edge.

Anonymous DrTorch February 21, 2013 7:08 AM  

Apparently, even far left journalists are realizing this same thing

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2013/02/18/why-the-choice-to-be-childless-is-bad-for-america.html

What's the warren going to do when they realize that their conclusions now match identically w/ "conservatives"?

Anonymous Razoraid February 21, 2013 7:13 AM  

Man, do you realize the humor you sometimes provide can be life threatening?

Anonymous Mr Green Man February 21, 2013 7:14 AM  

@Faust

One other thing to look at is the collapse of Meditteranean civilizations around 1200BC at the end of the Bronze Age. One of the major factors in this was population decline. There are considerably fewer records than from the classical Greek, Alexandrine Greek, or Roman era, but there was a flowering of civilization, then there were wars, then there was decline, and then civilization withdrew into a more barbarous age. Mycenaean writing tended to disappear in certain places as people turned toward smaller groups cut off from trade that had once existed.

One of the historical antecedents for a technological empire -- one that would shake the world with its high-tech weapons of war, but would fade into obscurity with a declining population -- was the Hittites. They're credited with the invention of iron weapons, and they set up an empire from a single great city, but they were outbred by others and they faded into obscurity, so that the Hittites that the Israelites encounter in the Bible are a hollowed-out shell of their former empire.

Anonymous JB February 21, 2013 7:16 AM  

Since rape was mentioned, here's McRapey:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/02/20/me-interviewed-on-fast-forward/

If anyone didn't know it, dudes a major douche.

Anonymous VD February 21, 2013 7:23 AM  

Good catch, Dr. Torch. Here is the vital sentence:

In the coming decades, success will accrue to those cultures that preserve the family’s place, not as the exclusive social unit but as one that is truly indispensable.

Of course, once it becomes sufficiently obvious to everyone, it will be forgotten that it was once claimed that the perceptive concerns of the demographically aware were driven by nothing more than "sexism".

As if it wasn't entirely obvious that Hispanics and Asians are never going to be willing to pay to keep millions of unproductive elderly white women in cat food, given their historical track record in their own cultures.

Anonymous zen0 February 21, 2013 7:24 AM  

Faust said:

What are some civilizations that have collapsed due to a low birthrate? Rome comes to mind, are there others?

Don't need to look too far:


Spengler (David Goldman) says:

My 2011 book How Civilizations Die (and Why Islam is Dying, Too) assembled evidence that the decline of Islam as a religion explained collapsing fertility, just as the decline of Catholicism explained collapsing fertility in lands once blessed by large families — Spain, Italy, Poland, Ireland, and Quebec. Iran’s total fertility rate plunged to an estimated 1.6% in 2010, barely above Europe’s rate of 1.5 children per female. In 1979, when the Islamists took power in Iran, the average woman bore seven children. Nothing like this sudden snapping shut of the national womb has ever happened before in all of history. And the rest of the Muslim world is headed in the same direction.

And, from 2006:

By 2050, elderly dependents will comprise nearly a third of the population of some Muslim nations, notably Iran - converging on America's dependency ratio at mid-century. But it is one thing to face such a problem with America's per capita gross domestic product (GDP) of $40,000, and quite another to face it with Iran's per capita GDP of $7,000 - especially given that Iran will stop exporting oil before the population crisis hits.

Anonymous justareader February 21, 2013 7:45 AM  

Women are meant to be helpmates. If that requires some work outside the home, then so it must be, minus all the drama. Otherwise, why do we women persist in breaking a perfectly good system. Shut up, cook a damn good steak, and have sex like it is the only place you want to be and your husband will stand up and protect you from all the big scary stuff out there. I don't know, seems pretty perfect to me.

Anonymous Roundtine February 21, 2013 7:48 AM  

The culture that existed pre-1914 collapsed when WW1 broke out. The war was influenced by declining birth rates. As the above Spengler has pointed out, Iran's belligerence is in part caused by falling fertility and declining energy production. Weakening states eventually get around to thinking that if they face a growing aggressive neighbor, the time to fight is now before they are outnumbered. Perhaps not as relevant with nukes, chemical and biological weapons, but you have to be willing to use them, if you're thinking along those lines.

I would guess that the Japanese may be thinking this way regarding China today. Especially when they look at their Western allies. Russia also does not screw around with Muslim separatists, and the demographics are also likely driving the Russian brutality because they cannot afford to lose.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 7:49 AM  

"c) doing so significantly increases the probability that his wife will stop being attracted to him and his marriage will fail. "

I would like to propose an amendment...

c) doing so significantly increases the probability that his wife will stop being attracted to him, and he will stop being attractive to her and the marriage will fail.

Its incredibly easy for a working girl wife to start thinking of her stay-at-home husband as a lazy bum. She compares him to the non-existent standard that she imagines she would live up to if she were staying at home... and he invariably fails.

Anonymous Desiderius February 21, 2013 7:50 AM  

Boomers gotta get paid.

Breeder shaming is yesterday's news.

BTW, outstanding post. The loose cannon draws a bead.

Anonymous Desiderius February 21, 2013 7:52 AM  

Strauss and Howe predicted all this in 1992.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 7:54 AM  

"But certainly, if there are women who dream of marrying men who will stay home and play video games with the children while they work 60 hours per week to support the family, there is no reason they should be barred from doing so. "

Hey man... we don't JUST play video games all day. I mean sometimes its almost 8am before they finish with their school work for the day. And sometimes we go down to the lake and shoot turtles with the 10/22s... or fish... or have great glorious nerf wars in the tree forts. and there is a swimming pool out there for the really nice days... about 300 of them a year.


Ok well... its mostly video games...

Anonymous Desiderius February 21, 2013 7:55 AM  

"as a super precocious kid"

That seems the most likely culprit. The brain gets wired around the reality of always being ahead of one's peers, then the hare has difficulty conceptualizing being passed up by the tortoises.

See the Grandiosity Gap, etc...

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 7:59 AM  

"It's official: Dr. Who is a bona fide snowflake."

Yes and No. Yes we do things differently... and no because we would prefer it to be the other way around.

She'd rather be at home with the kids. Of course...she only works like 30 hours a week.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 8:07 AM  

And what is supposed to be intimidating about working with women? What's intimidating about working with people who take more sick leave, work less overtime, produce less, complain more, blame everything on everyone else, refuse to take responsibility for anything, and basically have no initiative beyond learning the latest gossip or proving to everyone else what a super bitch they are?

and those aren't my conclusions about working women... that's what my WIFE says about working women.

Anonymous Stingray February 21, 2013 8:09 AM  

why do we women persist in breaking a perfectly good system.

Attention. Women want it and we perceive that men get it.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 8:14 AM  

"Attention. Women want it and we perceive that men get it."

ding ding ding

Blogger tz February 21, 2013 8:16 AM  

For #4, if you prefer breastfeeding it would require some interesting medical adaptations as well.

Motherhood was attacked first - raising many children was obviously hard work. When children went from indespensible to marginal utility, one or two, that enabled feminism - You can have a second life with a small, planned family, you don't have to wait until your late middle age. And divorce becomes easier.

Humanae Vitae was prophetic. Most Catholics don't follow it, but the destruction was prophecised. Nearly every protestant church did a 180 on their teaching when the pill appeared - from gravely sinful (you can find this in Calvin, Luther, and Wesley - where's Team Calvin?).

The Tanzanians and Papua New Gineans will still be around.

Anonymous Feh February 21, 2013 8:20 AM  

And what is supposed to be intimidating about working with women? What's intimidating about working with people who take more sick leave, work less overtime, produce less, complain more, blame everything on everyone else, refuse to take responsibility for anything, and basically have no initiative beyond learning the latest gossip or proving to everyone else what a super bitch they are?

And let's not forget, if you (a man) ever complain about a female coworker, your complaint will not be taken seriously, but if she complains about you, your ass will be put through the wringer and like as not you will be canned.

Blogger tz February 21, 2013 8:26 AM  

Even better, Casti Conubii

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121930_casti-connubii_en.html

45. For now, alas, not secretly nor under cover, but openly, with all sense of shame put aside, now by word again by writings, by theatrical productions of every kind, by romantic fiction, by amorous and frivolous novels, by cinematographs portraying in vivid scene, in addresses broadcast by radio telephony, in short by all the inventions of modern science, the sanctity of marriage is trampled upon and derided; divorce, adultery, all the basest vices either are extolled or at least are depicted in such colors as to appear to be free of all reproach and infamy. Books are not lacking which dare to pronounce themselves as scientific but which in truth are merely coated with a veneer of science in order that they may the more easily insinuate their ideas. The doctrines defended in these are offered for sale as the productions of modern genius, of that genius namely, which, anxious only for truth, is considered to have emancipated itself from all those old-fashioned and immature opinions of the ancients; and to the number of these antiquated opinions they relegate the traditional doctrine of Christian marriage.

This was 1930.

Anonymous Feh February 21, 2013 8:27 AM  

why do we women persist in breaking a perfectly good system.

Politicians want votes from women, and therefore it is necessary to convince women that the system is broken and politicians can fix it if only you vote for them. The more broken the system gets, the more jobs there are created for parasitic bureaucrats, many of whom are women. A vicious cycle...

Anonymous RC February 21, 2013 8:29 AM  

What a fabulous laboratory we've devised to study human social pathologies. Future historians shall thank us.

I only wish America was part of the control group.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 8:33 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 8:35 AM  

TZ...

It is somewhat difficult to listen to a church tell me I shouldn't put a little rubber thing on my penis when it can't seem to collectively keep itself from putting the sphincters of young boys on its own.

Blogger tz February 21, 2013 8:36 AM  

Sorry, but I can't resist one more excerpt. The whole encyclical isn't that long and worth the read.

74. The same false teachers who try to dim the luster of conjugal faith and purity do not scruple to do away with the honorable and trusting obedience which the woman owes to the man. Many of them even go further and assert that such a subjection of one party to the other is unworthy of human dignity, that the rights of husband and wife are equal; wherefore, they boldly proclaim the emancipation of women has been or ought to be effected. This emancipation in their ideas must be threefold, in the ruling of the domestic society, in the administration of family affairs and in the rearing of the children. It must be social, economic, physiological: - physiological, that is to say, the woman is to be freed at her own good pleasure from the burdensome duties properly belonging to a wife as companion and mother (We have already said that this is not an emancipation but a crime); social, inasmuch as the wife being freed from the cares of children and family, should, to the neglect of these, be able to follow her own bent and devote herself to business and even public affairs; finally economic, whereby the woman even without the knowledge and against the wish of her husband may be at liberty to conduct and administer her own affairs, giving her attention chiefly to these rather than to children, husband and family.

75. This, however, is not the true emancipation of woman, nor that rational and exalted liberty which belongs to the noble office of a Christian woman and wife; it is rather the debasing of the womanly character and the dignity of motherhood, and indeed of the whole family, as a result of which the husband suffers the loss of his wife, the children of their mother, and the home and the whole family of an ever watchful guardian. More than this, this false liberty and unnatural equality with the husband is to the detriment of the woman herself, for if the woman descends from her truly regal throne to which she has been raised within the walls of the home by means of the Gospel, she will soon be reduced to the old state of slavery (if not in appearance, certainly in reality) and become as amongst the pagans the mere instrument of man.

Anonymous Athor Pel February 21, 2013 8:41 AM  

"Nate February 21, 2013 7:54 AM
...
Hey man... we don't JUST play video games all day. I mean sometimes its almost 8am before they finish with their school work for the day. And sometimes we go down to the lake and shoot turtles with the 10/22s... or fish... or have great glorious nerf wars in the tree forts. and there is a swimming pool out there for the really nice days... about 300 of them a year.


Ok well... its mostly video games..."






The envy, it burns.

Anonymous Krul February 21, 2013 8:42 AM  

What about the fact that women may wish to work and be very capable of doing so.

If stay-at-home women want to work, they can. Nobody is preventing them from working on whatever they want, within the law.

What is really under discussion here is working for a wage, which happens to be a state of hateful soul-crushing drudgery by most accounts. Seriously, if your financial needs are already met, why would you ever want to enter wage slavery in the cubicle farm? Surely your own projects would be much more satisfying.

Anonymous Apeman February 21, 2013 8:49 AM  

Vox's statistic about woman who earn more is not very surprising and does not tell you much. In a lot of blue collar homes, if the woman earns more than the man, it is because the man has a drinking problem or some such that makes the marriage dubious without income even being a factor. All to often, woman marry losers that everyone around them knew were losers. Then they work hard to support the losers until the loser finds another woman he likes better. And that shows up in statistics as a man who is "threatened" by the fact that his wife makes more. Give me a break...

Vox's statistics would be more interesting if it was focused on middle class professionals with similar educational backgrounds and both with steady work histories. I wold not be surprised if such corrected statistics showed a higher divorce rate than traditional homes. But I don't think it would be anything as high as 50%.

And rape based cultures have more or less been tried. They are just as deadly as not reproducing for long term survival of culture. I realize that Vox threw that in there just to get certain people's panties in a twist, but the pedantic in me has to point that out.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 8:52 AM  

"In a lot of blue collar homes, if the woman earns more than the man, it is because the man has a drinking problem or some such that makes the marriage dubious without income even being a factor."

...

wtf?

Blogger SarahsDaughter February 21, 2013 8:55 AM  

1 in 4 women are on mental health medication. 1 in 3 are on sleep medication.

I hear them joke about it. One (intelligent career) lady caught her daughter in a lie - "oh, I'm going to need a Xanax for this one." (One of the most common parenting issues with teens and she has to have drugs to deal with it?)

Women's subjective well being is in decline and yet they believe themselves capable of responsibility for their own agency.

Like a parent who gives their two year old a five pound bag of circus peanuts and is surprised the toddler eats until he throws up - is our society today still peddling this equality bullshit.

Blogger tz February 21, 2013 8:58 AM  

@Nate - the church declares that it, too, is sinful. Pope JP2 would go to confession every week. You cannot stop sinning any more than anyone else, but that is different than saying because I cannot stop sinning, the subject of my sin must be declared to be neutral or righteousness.

That rubber and similar devices have destroyed the culture. The church teaches we must learn to control ourselves as far as possible, not to find technology that will allow us to be intemperate, imprudent, unjust, weak, and not suffer short-term consequences. For a nation of viceous people will not long prosper or survive. Nor will permit fundamental liberties to remain long.

For another example nation, look at Japan which is about to be smashed by its demographics.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 9:04 AM  

"That rubber and similar devices have destroyed the culture."

I mean they are pretty revolting... the smell and all. Blah blah blah... same old un-biblical catholic nonsense... carry on... Every Sperm is Sacred after all...

Anonymous HongKongCharlie February 21, 2013 9:05 AM  

How can a man perform an adequate rape when he now has to remove two pair of pantyhose while remaining in control of a hysterical female?
Mantyhose


HKC

Anonymous Josh February 21, 2013 9:06 AM  

Wait...so...using a condom is equivalent to raping a little boy?

Anonymous Josh February 21, 2013 9:08 AM  

HKC...

No...just no...

Anonymous Tad February 21, 2013 9:14 AM  

@Vox Day
2) The fact that women may wish to work and are very capable of working no more implies that they should always be encouraged to do so anymore than the fact that men may wish to rape and are very capable of raping means that they should always be encouraged to do so.

While this little comparison is true, it remains meaningless. The correct construction is this:

Because women may wish to have a career, they ought to be encouraged to have a career if they wish. It's no different and less obvious than saying because men may wish to have a career, they ought to be encouraged to pursue a career if they wish.

The kicker is this: because both men and women are equally capable of wishing to have a career and of actually having a career of their choice, both should be equally encouraged to pursue that career. The only rationale for denying this is a strong belief that either men or women deserve to be subjugated by the other sex.

The way we know that Vox Day chooses subjugation is that he thinks a man raping a women is merely "uncivilized" rather than a severe act of unjustified and brutal violence: "encouraging men to rape makes a society uncivilized."

After you get past all the childish twaddle about about he "harm" of women working, it's easy to come to the following conclusion: It's reasonable for both men and women to believe that the person who calls encouraging men to rape women "uncivilized" and not "brutal violence" is the kind of person you want to point a finger at and tell your children to stay very far away from.

Anonymous VryeDenker February 21, 2013 9:19 AM  

Unless you have a rifle in your hand and you plan on shooting something organic with it, you have no right to wear stockings.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 9:20 AM  

TZ...

"the church declares that it, too, is sinful. Pope JP2 would go to confession every week. "

maybe you should've worded that a little differently. I mean... you basically just implied that JP2 buttraped little boys but felt real bad about it.

Anonymous Josh February 21, 2013 9:20 AM  

Because women may wish to have a career, they ought to be encouraged to have a career if they wish. It's no different and less obvious than saying because men may wish to have a career, they ought to be encouraged to pursue a career if they wish.

Yes, it is different, because men are incapable of having babies. As a socialist, you should understand the importance of restraining individuals for the collective good.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 9:23 AM  

"Because women may wish to have a career, they ought to be encouraged to have a career if they wish. It's no different and less obvious than saying because men may wish to have a career, they ought to be encouraged to pursue a career if they wish."

Should they also be encouraged to stay at home and have babies if they wish?

Anonymous Josh February 21, 2013 9:27 AM  

Should they also be encouraged to stay at home and have babies if they wish?

What do you think welfare, section 8, and food stamps do?

Oh wait...you meant married women with above average intelligence...carry on

Although I suppose tad would oppose that because it discriminates against folks like him, who are biologically incapable of having babies

Anonymous VD February 21, 2013 9:30 AM  

Because women may wish to have a career, they ought to be encouraged to have a career if they wish.

Ah, so the obvious consequences don't matter. Civilization be damned, says the evolutionary dead-end. This is no different than saying because a man may wish to commit rape, he ought to be encouraged to commit rape if he wishes.

No wonder Tad thinks John "I am a Rapist" Scalzi has a winning argument.

Anonymous Alexander February 21, 2013 9:31 AM  

Josh, you assume that Tad sees humanity in general and western society in particular as a 'good'. he does not.

He will not advocate for this sort of self-destructive egalitarianism when it suits. But for traditional western values to commit suicide? That's not just an unfortunate but necessary outcome to be sacrificed in the name of equality - that's the end game.

Anonymous Josh February 21, 2013 9:35 AM  

This is no different than saying because a man may wish to commit rape, he ought to be encouraged to commit rape if he wishes.

Hey, it's as equally bad as putting on a condom or jerking off...

Anonymous Lulabelle February 21, 2013 9:35 AM  

"Should they also be encouraged to stay at home and have babies if they wish?"

I don't recall any liberal policy initiatives encouraging women to stay home if they wish. (The all-important "if they wish".....cause, you know, it's all about ME. ME!!) (sarcasm off).

Tad - can you think of any? I'm curious.

Anonymous VD February 21, 2013 9:36 AM  

The way we know that Vox Day chooses subjugation is that he thinks a man raping a women is merely "uncivilized" rather than a severe act of unjustified and brutal violence: "encouraging men to rape makes a society uncivilized."

The syphilis-addled one has failed to grasp that labeling an act "uncivilized" does not mean that it cannot also be "a severe act of unjustified and brutal violence". Of course, perhaps he simply wishes to argue that rape is civilized.

Tad really needs to take this up with McRapey, not me. I'm absolutely fine with defending my position that rape is uncivilized.

Anonymous Josh February 21, 2013 9:36 AM  

No wonder Tad thinks John "I am a Rapist" Scalzi has a winning argument.

Does this count towards the gay black girls fund?

Anonymous Rantor February 21, 2013 9:36 AM  

Tad hasn't grokked that the woman working is bad for civilization. Of course he refuses to understand that his lifestyle also does nothing to continue the survival of a civilization.

Fecundity is survival, especially if you build a ponzi economy.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 9:40 AM  

"Does this count towards the gay black girls fund?"

Why does everyone keep leaving out the incest victims!!??

DON'T YOU PEOPLE CARE ABOUT ANYTHING????

Anonymous AlteredFate February 21, 2013 9:42 AM  

Vox wrote in a post some time ago that women no longer take pride in the one and only thing that they are capable of and that no man, no matter how intelligent, will ever be capable of, namely, bearing children. There is no higher calling for women, and anyone that says otherwise isn't wise at all. What a tragedy feminism has turned out to be for mankind.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler February 21, 2013 9:42 AM  

I urge all people here to read the great book by Yves Christian, Sexual Differences, Modern Biology and the Unisex Fallacy. It is all there! That should be the standard Textbook on women/men. He states categorically, and is proven, that Men distaste weak things. Men are drawn to strong things. Females are drawn to weak helpless things. That is why Nature has it that Women take care of the young and men do not. Men have short tempers, and women have patience. (These are all in curve.)

Anonymous Tad February 21, 2013 9:42 AM  

@nate
Should they also be encouraged to stay at home and have babies if they wish?
Of course.

@Josh
Yes, it is different, because men are incapable of having babies. As a socialist, you should understand the importance of restraining individuals for the collective good.

Just a reminder, women are quite capable and demonstrate daily that they are quite capable of both having babies and having a career.

@Vox Day
Ah, so the obvious consequences don't matter. Civilization be damned, says the evolutionary dead-end. This is no different than saying because a man may wish to commit rape, he ought to be encouraged to commit rape if he wishes.

First, it's a demonstration of your competence on this subject to believe I am an evolutionary dead end. Second, the consequences of encouraging women to have a career if they desire in no way threatens civilization. Finally, encouraging men to rape and encouraging women to have a career if they wish is in fact different. In fact there are a number of differences. The main difference of course is that one encourages liberty, the other encourages violence. Another difference is that is that when we discover someone who believes encouraging women to have a career if they wish is the same as encouraging men to rape if they wish we do at least have a good clue as to who we ought to cross the street to avoid, lest we put ourselves and our children in danger.

Finally, it's not that Mr. Scalzi has a "winning argument", it's that he has already won.

The syphilis-addled one has failed to grasp that labeling an act "uncivilized" does not mean that it cannot also be "a severe act of unjustified and brutal violence".

It's not so much that. It's that Sure, rape can be violent and uncivilized. All I'm pointing out is that it's entirely reasonable to conclude thatt the person who chooses to identify rape as "uncivilized" without also acknowledging the brutal violence it represents is the kind of person that needs to be avoided in order to keep oneself, one's family and society safe.

Anonymous Josh February 21, 2013 9:43 AM  

Why does everyone keep leaving out the incest victims!!??

DON'T YOU PEOPLE CARE ABOUT ANYTHING????


Okay, princess.

Gay incestuous black girls.

Happy now?

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 9:45 AM  

Oh dear Vox... you mentioned the R word and didn't sufficiently genuflect. And so now... the dread shaming!

Oh the horror.. I cannot look.

Anonymous Josh February 21, 2013 9:46 AM  

Just a reminder, women are quite capable and demonstrate daily that they are quite capable of both having babies and having a career.

Not as many babies as women who stay at home. There was a whole freaking post about this yesterday, with maths and numbers and such.

Anonymous Stickwick February 21, 2013 9:47 AM  

... and c) doing so significantly increases the probability that his wife will stop being attracted to him and his marriage will fail.

There was a recent Hollywood example of this. When the actress who plays Amy Farrah Fowler on The Big Bang Theory announced she and her husband were splitting, she blamed it on "irreconcilable differences" and implied it was a mutual decision. However, once you know that the husband was a stay-at-home-dad (who has an aura of manboob), is there any doubt as to who instigated the divorce and why?

Anonymous Josh February 21, 2013 9:48 AM  

First, it's a demonstration of your competence on this subject to believe I am an evolutionary dead end.

Tad...a rectum is not a uterus...

Anonymous Stilicho February 21, 2013 9:50 AM  

Although I suppose tad would oppose that because it discriminates against folks like him, who are biologically incapable of having babies

Stan: I want to have babies.
Reg: You want to have babies?!?!
Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But ... you can't HAVE babies!
Stan: Don't you oppress me!
Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb! Where's the foetus gonna gestate? You gonna keep it in a box?

Anonymous Josh February 21, 2013 9:53 AM  

Amy Farah Fowler is the absolute worst.

And holy crap, would you look at that manjaw on her.

Anonymous Stilicho February 21, 2013 9:55 AM  

Just a reminder, women are quite capable and demonstrate daily that they are quite capable of both having babies and having a career..

Yet they are not capable of having a career and raising babies.

Anonymous The One February 21, 2013 9:56 AM  

@Nate

If you really think the RC position on BC is unBiblical, perhaps you can explain to us why Onan was struck down by G-d?

It's an addiction and the science backs it up. You would of realized that if you read the book I recommended rather than being scared off by a foreword.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 9:57 AM  

"However, once you know that the husband was a stay-at-home-dad (who has an aura of manboob), is there any doubt as to who instigated the divorce and why?"

Look the truth is if I wasn't such a stupendous badass my wife would've lost interest years ago. Happens all the time. The stay at home dad thing is basically betting your family's future on your ability to maintain your badass man credibility with practically the whole deck stacked against you. The risks are huge. Of course.. if you pull it off you get to spend all day with your kids shooting turtles, fishing, playing Black Ops II, and watching Sportcenter. so I mean... its not entirely irrational.

Anonymous Stilicho February 21, 2013 9:59 AM  

Wasn't Onan punished for failing to obey the order to impregnate his brother's widow?

Anonymous Lulabelle February 21, 2013 10:01 AM  

"if you pull it off you get to spend all day with your kids shooting turtles, fishing, playing Black Ops II, and watching Sportcenter. so I mean... its not entirely irrational."

Now you're just rubbing it in out of pure meanness.

Anonymous Noah B. February 21, 2013 10:01 AM  

"Of course.. if you pull it off you get to spend all day with your kids shooting turtles, fishing, playing Black Ops II, and watching Sportcenter."

It's important to get in some welding time, too.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 10:02 AM  

"If you really think the RC position on BC is unBiblical, perhaps you can explain to us why Onan was struck down by G-d?"

Really?

Like so many idiotic catholic herecies... this is a prime example of catholics pulling a verse... taking it totally out of context... and constructing huge institutions on top of it.

God specifically told Onan to impregnate someone. Onan deliberately took action to prevent that from happening.

Onan's sin was not mastubation. Onan's sin was disobeying a direct order from God Himself. It was disobedience.

Are YOU Onan? Did God tell YOU to impregnate someone?

Where in all the litany of rules and regulations God gave to the jews... do we find that Every Sperm is Sacred?

At times Catholics are every bit as idiotic as Calvinists... of course that should be expected... Augustine and what not...

Anonymous The other skeptic February 21, 2013 10:03 AM  

Seems that the DHS wants to further reduce the population of white females in the US or are in some way afraid of them.

Anonymous mjb February 21, 2013 10:03 AM  

Women who work full time aren't raising children. Even many SAHMs aren't raising children. I see their posts on FB. They are excited to place their children in the institution once their summer time duties are over. They complain how hard it is to raise 2 snotty nosed brats, while never investing in their kids. Their fathers probably work their butts off and then have to pick up the slack.

The career mothers are the worst. When their children are babies, they show them around on weekends at the park like some sort of trophy. They may interact with their children a couple hours each night. You simply cannot get quality without a lot of quantity.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 10:04 AM  

"It's important to get in some welding time, too."

I suck at welding. holy cow do I suck at welding. I need to do better. criticism accepted.

Anonymous AlteredFate February 21, 2013 10:07 AM  

"Tad...a rectum is not a uterus..." -Josh

The latter of which he likely knows nothing about because his head is up the former.

Or is it someone else's head up Tad's? That seems more likely. He seems more of the catcher type.

Anonymous Stilicho February 21, 2013 10:07 AM  

Widespread rape makes a society uncivilized.

All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what has civilization ever done for us?

Anonymous VD February 21, 2013 10:08 AM  

First, it's a demonstration of your competence on this subject to believe I am an evolutionary dead end.

Tad, you are a self-declared homosexual. It doesn't matter how many times you go to the bathhouse, you're never going to get pregnant. This is biology 101.

Second, the consequences of encouraging women to have a career if they desire in no way threatens civilization.

Shut up, Tad. The fact that you're too stupid to understand it doesn't make it false.

Finally, encouraging men to rape and encouraging women to have a career if they wish is in fact different. In fact there are a number of differences.

Of course there are. The consequences of women working en masse is provably much worse than the consequences of women being raped en masse. For example, millions of women in Germany were raped from 1945 to 1949 and it clearly didn't harm German civilization as much as the mass entry of German women into the workforce in the post-war period.

Anonymous RedJack February 21, 2013 10:08 AM  

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2013/02/18/why-the-choice-to-be-childless-is-bad-for-america.html

Anonymous The other skeptic February 21, 2013 10:09 AM  

First, it's a demonstration of your competence on this subject to believe I am an evolutionary dead end.

You don't have to take our word for it, even Greg Cochran a Physicist in New Mexico says so, and he is one of those people who understands the math of population biology.

PS, don't go to that web site if you don't like the left's fairy tales being abused.

Anonymous Anonymous February 21, 2013 10:14 AM  

Not, not, not a feminist so I hope this comes out right. The manosphere is running counter-cultural to the feminist agenda and growing for it. Is there some way for the manosphere to provide an alternative message to young women?

Anonymous Papapete February 21, 2013 10:15 AM  

Nate you forget about the stay at home dads support group. We meet every Tuesday at the shooting range.

Anonymous Kickass February 21, 2013 10:15 AM  

Here in NJ there is a new law up for vote that makes it ILLEGAL to ask about someone's criminal history during an employment interview for private company's. You may ask AFTER they have been given a verbal offer of the job and then you can only recind it after you find out that they have murdered someone. They are working out the details on this part.

I was listening to the local radio, because they DJ's seemed to have some kind of logic going on for once. All of those in favor of this were women. Every last one. They said they had married men who had made mistakes and they couldn't find jobs and they were sick and tired of having to pay for his mistakes over and over again. They were asked if they knew about their Husband's criminal past before the marriage and each one said yes. They were further asked if they understood the consequences of having private business, for instance, who work with children and are not allowed to filter out candidates who are pedophiles. They said their Husbands are not pedophiles.

Once again, it isn't that women are not given the freedom they long for. They are free to marry a criminal. They do not want the consequences of doing so. And someone is willing to legislate it away.

Anonymous mjb February 21, 2013 10:16 AM  

Anon,

There are plenty of red pilled women who have accepted reality. They know what's up.

Anonymous The One February 21, 2013 10:16 AM  

@Nate

And now you are lying. G-d never told Onan, Judah (a man) told Onan. Genesis 38:8

Consider what you are saying. Every time we read a bible story, it isn't applicable to ourselves, but read only as applicable to the person at hand in the story.

Anonymous mjb February 21, 2013 10:18 AM  

Kickass,

You really think Christie would support that? I know he's no libertarian, but I can't see him ever passing that. Stupid bill. Stupid state. I live on Morris county.

Anonymous Stilicho February 21, 2013 10:21 AM  

Every time we read a bible story, it isn't applicable to ourselves, but read only as applicable to the person at hand in the story.

Man: I think it was, "Blessed are the cheesemakers"!
Gregory's wife: What's so special about the cheesemakers?
Gregory: Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturer of dairy products.

Anonymous Papapete February 21, 2013 10:22 AM  

I personally have gotten great tips at the support group. It's helped me with both draw-and -fire speed and accuracy and improved failure drills as well.

Anonymous Kickass February 21, 2013 10:27 AM  

@Josh
Amy Farah Fowler is the absolute worst.

And holy crap, would you look at that manjaw on her


However, she bitch slapped some female journalists who attempted to take her down a notch on the massive benefits of nursing your child and attachment parenting. It was really fun to watch. She has the educational background to back it up, so they were helpless since they worship the degree. There was an overall sense of panic and you could see the host going "She is a women, she has degrees, she is citing scientific research....must stop truth at all costs..".

But once she went back to work and was supporting the Husband you could kind of see how this was going to go. Sad.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 10:28 AM  

"Nate you forget about the stay at home dads support group. We meet every Tuesday at the shooting range."

Indeed.

I mean what lady can resist a man that smells like gun powder and hoppes #9?

Anonymous Kickass February 21, 2013 10:29 AM  

@ MJB, you have my condolences on being on the Titanic with me.

I have no idea if it will be supported. I thought it was a joke, but 101.5 devoted quite a bit of time to it. I rarely listen to them, but was because of severe weather. That it was introduced at all is a troubling sign of things to come, I think.

Anonymous Tad February 21, 2013 10:29 AM  

@Vox Day


Tad, you are a self-declared homosexual. It doesn't matter how many times you go to the bathhouse, you're never going to get pregnant. This is biology 101.


It's somewhat shocking that you don't understand the most basic facts of biology. It's shocking that you don'tunderstand that homosexuality doesn't preclude the passing on of genes or the ability to have children. If you really do need a primer on fertility and reproduction, let me know. I'm happy to give you one.

Second, the consequences of encouraging women to have a career if they desire in no way threatens civilization.

Shut up, Tad. The fact that you're too stupid to understand it doesn't make it false.


No, it doesn't. The facts alone make it false. Civilization simple is not threatened by women working. Never has been, never will be. This is evidenced by the fact that working women sill have children in abundant numbers.

The consequences of women working en masse is provably much worse than the consequences of women being raped en masse.

And it can't be repeated enough that it is reasonable to believe that upon finding someone willing to stand behind this kind of claim, we have to be somewhat grateful. It's not often that you can easily identify someone that it is critical to avoid so as to protect your children.

Anonymous Kickass February 21, 2013 10:31 AM  

@ Tad

February 21, 2013 10:09 AM
First, it's a demonstration of your competence on this subject to believe I am an evolutionary dead end.


Please feel free to prove how you are not.

Anonymous Stingray February 21, 2013 10:31 AM  

Mmmmmmm . . . cordite and Hoppes. Add in some wood chips . . . . . *swoon*

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 10:33 AM  

"And now you are lying. G-d never told Onan, Judah (a man) told Onan. Genesis 38:8 "


Dear God...

You actually think this tortured response is effective. Tell me.. have you mastered complex mechanisms like revolving doors or automatically flushing public toilets yet?

Anonymous Kickass February 21, 2013 10:35 AM  

@ Tad
"It's somewhat shocking that you don't understand the most basic facts of biology. It's shocking that you don'tunderstand that homosexuality doesn't preclude the passing on of genes or the ability to have children. If you really do need a primer on fertility and reproduction, let me know. I'm happy to give you one."

What you don't seem to get is that for all your protestations that it is "normal" and you were "born this way" you have to go against homosexulaity to participate in passing down your genes.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 10:37 AM  

"Mmmmmmm . . . cordite and Hoppes. Add in some wood chips . . . . . *swoon*"

My wife swears that she can feel the shooting range on my hands. Kills her.

Anonymous cheddarman February 21, 2013 10:39 AM  

Nate, if the wife gives you grief about staying at home,

you could always start "Nate's Stupendous Bad-ass Academy," grades 1-12 and evening classes for adults.

sincerely

cheddarman

Anonymous VD February 21, 2013 10:49 AM  

The facts alone make it false. Civilization simple is not threatened by women working. Never has been, never will be. This is evidenced by the fact that working women sill have children in abundant numbers.

Shut up, Tad. Sub-replacement level is not "abundant numbers". Your syphilis appears to have eaten a few more brain cells.

Anonymous Tad February 21, 2013 11:05 AM  

@Vox Day

Shut up, Tad. Sub-replacement level is not "abundant numbers". Your syphilis appears to have eaten a few more brain cells.

It is projected that the U.S. population will rise to 440 million in 2050. That looks like replacement to me. So, there you go. You best get up off the ground and move on.


@kickass
What you don't seem to get is that for all your protestations that it is "normal" and you were "born this way" you have to go against homosexulaity to participate in passing down your genes.

It's nice to see that you are able to back pedal when you need to. So of course homosexuals are not an evolutionary dead end. They simple, in some cases, choose not to have children, exactly like some straight people.

Anonymous Imatiger February 21, 2013 11:06 AM  

@ VD

"The consequences of women working en masse is provably much worse than the consequences of women being raped en masse. For example, millions of women in Germany were raped from 1945 to 1949 and it clearly didn't harm German civilization as much as the mass entry of German women into the workforce in the post-war period."

Kind of depends on your perspective? The consequence may be worse for you VD, but for the women being raped, I'm pretty sure they couldn't give a shit about your concern for civilization.

Anonymous Raggededge February 21, 2013 11:10 AM  

Tad: It is projected that the U.S. population will rise to 440 million in 2050. That looks like replacement to me. So, there you go. You best get up off the ground and move on.

Civilization /= population. The Roman Empire's population was at it's greatest when it fell.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 11:15 AM  

"It is projected that the U.S. population will rise to 440 million in 2050. That looks like replacement to me. So, there you go. You best get up off the ground and move on."

Maths! NUMBERSES!!!

My God its like all those posts on immigration never happened.

Anonymous Godfrey February 21, 2013 11:17 AM  

"The birthrate has already fallen well below replacement level..."


By design.

Anonymous VD February 21, 2013 11:19 AM  

Kind of depends on your perspective? The consequence may be worse for you VD, but for the women being raped, I'm pretty sure they couldn't give a shit about your concern for civilization.

For me? What does this have to do with me? I prefer civilization, but being a natural leader with a life-long interest in military tactics, I suspect I'll do okay when it falls apart. But I'm sure that you're right and the women being raped didn't give a shit about civilization or my concern for it. It is entirely obvious that working women don't give a shit about civilization today. Nor do the men who defend them working and ignore the obvious demographic consequences. Most people who live in civilization don't value it because MPAI. They are fish who can't imagine that one day the lake might dry up.

It's hardly my fault that mass female employment is provably more detrimental to civilization than mass rape. I'm just noting the obvious. Even if I'm wrong, (and I'm not), do you seriously wish to condemn me for wanting to preserve civilization?

Anonymous VD February 21, 2013 11:23 AM  

It is projected that the U.S. population will rise to 440 million in 2050. That looks like replacement to me. So, there you go. You best get up off the ground and move on.

It's replacement of a very different sort. Millions of imported Hispanics and other third-worlders does not mean educated working women are having children. You're particularly stupid today.

Also, shut up, Tad.

Anonymous Alexander February 21, 2013 11:27 AM  

Interesting. Whether or not women see it, does Tad see no correlation between rape and barbarousness? Does he not comprehend the vast difference between the protection and status granted to women in western (traditional) society, our watered down multi-culti western society, and full blown third world cultures?

One would think that a woman who valued security over every other value would take a great interest in the level of civilization she lived in.

Anonymous Tad February 21, 2013 11:30 AM  

@Vox Day

It's hardly my fault that mass female employment is provably more detrimental to civilization than mass rape. I'm just noting the obvious. Even if I'm wrong, (and I'm not), do you seriously wish to condemn me for wanting to preserve civilization?

Well, since we know you are wrong about women working since there is no question that the U.S. will easily replace itself, I guess we have to ask what you mean by "civilization".

It's not easy to tell. But it's reasonable to assume that your version of a civilization worthy of saving includes:

1. Doctrinaire and legal discrimination against non-whites
2. The subjugation of women
3. Severe restrictions on basic liberties

Here's the thing. Your view on what makes a civilization worth saving went by the wayside about the same time lynchings did. That your views are not merely in the minority but near universally recognized as evidence that evil is easily found in the world, probably is a good thing. That said, it's pretty clear that we don't have enough Elven Fiction or Angel Fiction in the world and your willingness to wade into those important genres recommends your presence here about. So, by all means carry on. I know I'm entertained.

Blogger "1951" February 21, 2013 11:38 AM  

Nate February 21, 2013 8:35 AM: It is somewhat difficult to listen to a church tell me I shouldn't put a little rubber thing on my penis when it can't seem to collectively keep itself from putting the sphincters of young boys on its own.

The Church doesn't have to "keep itself" from doing anything. The Church never raped anyone. The Church characterizes sodomy, pederasty and the like as mortal sin, same as it always has. The fact that some members of the Church have chosen to act in deliberate defiance of what the Church teaches does not diminish the holiness or the teaching magesterium of the Church by one iota.

Fact: You are an anti-Catholic bigot and a hater. As such, your opinions are irrelevant and of no value. Go be a Roundhead somewhere else.

Anonymous Tallen February 21, 2013 11:41 AM  

1. Doctrinaire and legal discrimination against non-whites
2. The subjugation of women
3. Severe restrictions on basic liberties


Ironically a statist society leads to all of these things. I wonder why VD doesn't call for more government if they are what he wants. At the same time it's very telling of your mentality, Tad.

Anonymous Krul February 21, 2013 11:48 AM  

Fact: You are an anti-Catholic bigot and a hater. As such, your opinions are irrelevant and of no value. Go be a Roundhead somewhere else.

Yeah! You're such a "hater", Nate, that makes you wrong!

Of course, if I found out that you are not in fact experiencing the emotional state called "hatred" at the moment that you express your opinion, I would have to conclude that you are correct. Fortunately there's no way for me to confirm your emotional state, leaving me free to assume that you're a hater and therefore wrong, so there.

Take that, hater.

Anonymous Imatiger February 21, 2013 11:50 AM  

@ 1951

What does the deliberate cover-up of the child rape by church leaders imply, pray tell?

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 11:54 AM  

"Yeah! You're such a "hater", Nate, that makes you wrong!"

Its like debating with asher without the fancy vocabulary.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 11:56 AM  

"Fact: You are an anti-Catholic bigot and a hater. As such, your opinions are irrelevant and of no value. Go be a Roundhead somewhere else."

> SELECT finger FROM hand WHERE id=3

Anonymous CrisisEraDynamo February 21, 2013 12:01 PM  

@ Tad

1. Doctrinaire and legal discrimination against non-whites

So whites have no right to keep themselves from getting pushed out of their own homelands, while everyone else does. Got it.

2. The subjugation of women

Subjugation, according to feminists, is not allowing the wife to divorce and inflict punitive damages on a man merely for displeasing her. Subjugation is also when one doesn't defer to women regardless of their behavior (whereas men have to "respect women" just because they are women.)

3. Severe restrictions on basic liberties

You really want to play this game? Who's the one trying to criminalize free speech because it's "offensive?" Who's the one trying to force churches to pay for abortion and birth control? Who's the one trying to keep people from protecting their own lives with firearms? Who's the one that supports paternity fraud? Who considers no-fault divorce vital to society? And [this one's a trick question] who's the one that made families impossible to form anymore (thanks to no-fault divorce?*)

Progressives, by and large. A society in which families cannot be formed and husbands can be legally abused on their wife's whim is an evil society indeed.






* Ronald Reagan. No, seriously, look it up. The family-values types that idolize him are utterly stupid.

Blogger Joshua_D February 21, 2013 12:02 PM  

Shut. Up. Tad.

Anonymous Daniel February 21, 2013 12:03 PM  

You know, I always thought that query needed a thumb sub-routine to clarify the hand's facing.

Anonymous CrisisEraDynamo February 21, 2013 12:04 PM  

@ VD

Wouldn't the up-and-coming life extension tech make all this bellyaching about birthrates a moot point? I guess we'll have to wait and see. The one's doing it swear we'll have it by the 2040s or something, but I'm not really convinced it'll be that soon.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 12:05 PM  

Where's the Finn? I'm lazy... the Finn can handle the sub-routine.

Anonymous CrisisEraDynamo February 21, 2013 12:09 PM  

To clarify my response to Tad's #1, progressives use the fact that European-descended peoples pushed out the Native Americans, and the fact that Europeans colonized African and Asian societies, as a club to beat whites, yet the basis for this bashing is that whites invaded those societies against the will of the natives.

Anonymous George of the Hole February 21, 2013 12:11 PM  

Tad is not very bright. He purposely puts his pecker in people's sewage dispensers.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 12:24 PM  

"Tad is not very bright. He purposely puts his pecker in people's sewage dispensers."

Hey now...

I can assure you Kate Upton's sewage dispenser appears to be an excellent place to put a pecker.

Anonymous Upton the Irons February 21, 2013 12:42 PM  

"I can assure you Kate Upton's..."

I'm having some rather impure thoughts at this moment.

Blogger James Dixon February 21, 2013 12:48 PM  

> ...is the kind of person that needs to be avoided in order to keep oneself, one's family and society safe.

And yet here Tad is, day after day.

Anonymous Stingray February 21, 2013 12:48 PM  

I am suddenly hearing Frank Zappa in my head. Make it stop!

Anonymous Upton the Irons February 21, 2013 12:51 PM  

"I am suddenly hearing Frank Zappa in my head. Make it stop!"

Wristwatch...Crisco

Blogger "1951" February 21, 2013 12:54 PM  

Imatiger February 21, 2013 11:50 AM: What does the deliberate cover-up of the child rape by church leaders imply, pray tell?

It implies that the Church, like the rest of Christian society, has been infiltrated and polluted by the kind of homosexuals who, in a just society, would spend their days peering forlornly out from between strands of barbed wire rather than using their positions of trust as means to the end of furthering their filthy private perversions.

More pedophilia accusations are leveled toward Protestant clergy and toward public school teachers per annum than toward Catholic clergy. What does that imply about Protestants and public school teachers?

Anonymous Susan February 21, 2013 12:55 PM  

Where's Loki and Signe when ya need them?

Seriously.

Anonymous jay c February 21, 2013 12:56 PM  

Tad said, ...there is no question that the U.S. will easily replace itself...

Interesting choice of words, that. And completely true.

Anonymous jay c February 21, 2013 1:01 PM  

Real Girls by Daniel Amos from the 1983 album "Doppelgänger". Great stuff.

Anonymous Imatiger February 21, 2013 1:01 PM  

@ 1951

Then, the Catholic Church, as a hierarchy, seems to have been infiltrated by homosexuals up to the level of the cardinals and the papacy. I am not sure why you brought up Protestants and teachers. To show that that Catholic Church is full of horrible child rapists, but less horrible than the other horribleness?

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 1:03 PM  

"Wristwatch...Crisco"

BAHAHAHAHAH

Anonymous jay c February 21, 2013 1:04 PM  

And a video to go with it.

Blogger Random February 21, 2013 1:11 PM  

"> SELECT finger FROM hand WHERE id=3"

Clearly not a zero-indexed collection.

Blogger The Deuce February 21, 2013 1:13 PM  

Tad:

Second, the consequences of encouraging women to have a career if they desire in no way threatens civilization.

Are you incapable of basic math, or are you simply in denial about the basic facts of the extremely low fertility levels of working women?

This is evidenced by the fact that working women sill have children in abundant numbers.

Well, that answers that question.

Well, since we know you are wrong about women working since there is no question that the U.S. will easily replace itself

Being replaced isn't the same as replacing yourself, moron.

Blogger Random February 21, 2013 1:14 PM  

"Then, the Catholic Church, as a hierarchy, seems to have been infiltrated by homosexuals up to the level of the cardinals and the papacy."

Something traditionalists have been shouting from the rooftops since the Syllabus of Errors.

The sinful behavior of her members doesn't invalidate the truth of the sin.

Blogger "1951" February 21, 2013 1:15 PM  

Imatiger February 21, 2013 1:01 PM: Then, the Catholic Church, as a hierarchy, seems to have been infiltrated by homosexuals up to the level of the cardinals and the papacy.

Of course. The Church has been no less corrupted by modernism than has any other institution in the West. There is plenty of rot in the Church and the rot goes clear to the top.

But the hierarchy of the Church is not the same thing as the Church. It is entirely possible for individual bishops, cardinals, and popes to be perverts, reprobates, and heretics, but the Church cannot be perverted. It cannot present sin as righteousness. It cannot teach heresy. The men who lead it can, but the Church cannot. The Church is nothing but the Body of Christ, and as such is infallible and indestructible.

The Church has suffered bad bishops, cardinals, and popes before. She survived them. She will survive the ones we have now. And through it all, her teaching will remain clear and unchanging: that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and mortally sinful.

A priest is like a doctor. Just as a doctor who is personally a reprobate can nevertheless prescribe good medicine to the physically ill, the "medicine" offered by a Catholic priest (that is, the Eucharist) remains pure and life-giving even if the priest himself is a filthy, unrepentant sinner.

Blogger Random February 21, 2013 1:21 PM  

"...the "medicine" offered by a Catholic priest (that is, the Eucharist) remains pure and life-giving even if the priest himself is a filthy, unrepentant sinner."

Do you think most reprobate priests (clearly a small percentage--no calumnies from me) really "intend what the Church intends" during the consecration at Mass?

If not, it's still just a stale cracker.

Know your priests! Just not in the Biblical sense.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 1:24 PM  

" What does that imply about Protestants and public school teachers?"

1) there are way more protestant clergy and public school teachers. so... duh. This is like arguing that whites in america commit more crime in america.

2) it tells us that catholics are better at covering it up. usually.

Blogger tz February 21, 2013 1:42 PM  

Protestants like to make the bible verses mean whatever they think is convenient. The interpretation of the Onan passage (plus Psalms about the quiver full of arrows and others) was exactly what the Roman Catholic church taught universally until 1930. Check out Calvin, Wesley, Zwingle, and Luther on the same passages. The best book is by Charles Provan, and there are resources at http://www.swrb.com/Puritan/bible-birth-control.htm

Of course the Episcopalians see nothing wrong with a lesbian Bishop, and they are interpreting the same bible.

The Christian ideal is mutual self-giving, and such must be by definition open to life. The alternative is mutual masturbation (sometimes not so mutual). The RC church allows Napro, i.e. NFP where the husband must respect the woman, her body, and her fertility instead of practicing safe sex.

The foundation of any long lasting society - Confucian china, the Roman republic, the Jewish nation, even in diaspora, or Christendom is the family. Societies with rights, freedoms, and liberties derive their existence from the strong, stable, nuclear family.

I would note that in the sacrament of marriage, it is not merely a civil contract - The couple appears before God and Man to form a covenant, and the words "Till Death do us Part" are included. The State has no authority to void such a covenant even if both parties want it voided. It is a fraud to do so.

Leo XIII's encyclical, Arcanum http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_10021880_arcanum_en.html goes into how societies that allow divorce are committing suicide.

(If Vox can pontificate, I can point out that other pontiffs have done so earlier, making the exact same points).

@1951 - It should be beneath Nate to bring up the church scandals, but I've answered it. I'll reproduce my standard response here.

The church is and always has been corrupt, much like Israel in the OT is described as the bride which has become a harlot and adulteress. Jesus selected the first 12 bishops, one was Judas Iscariot, Peter denied him thrice, all but John ran away during the crucifixion. And it went downhill from there. Paul describes in his sermon from Acts about bishops who are wolves in sheep's clothing. During the persecutions, many gave into doing sacrilege. Arius was with the majority of bishops, it was Nicholas, and remember Athanasius contra mundi? By 1054, east and west had such enmity that they excommunicated each other. Right around that time there were similar sexual scandals -

http://www.crusadeagainstclergyabuse.com/htm/AShortHistory.htm

The most dramatic and explicit condemnation of forbidden clergy sexual activity was the Book of Gomorrah of St. Peter Damian, completed in 1051. The author had been a Benedictine monk and was appointed archbishop and later cardinal by the reigning pope. Peter Damian was also a dedicated Church reformer who lived in a society wherein clerical decadence was not only widespread and publicly known, but generally accepted as the norm. His work, the circumstances that prompted it and the reaction of the reigning pope (Leo IX) are a prophetic reflection of the contemporary situation. He begins by singling out superiors who, prompted by excessive and misplaced piety, fail to exclude sodomites (chap. 2). He asserts that those given to “unclean acts” not be ordained or, if they are already ordained, be dismissed from Holy Orders (chap. 3). He holds special contempt for those who defile men or boys who come to them for confession (chap. 6). Likewise he condemns clerics who administer the sacrament of penance (confession) to their victims (chap. 7). The author also provides a refutation of the canonical sources used by offending clerics to justify their proclivities (chap. 11, 12). He also provides chapters which assess the damage done to the church by offending clerics (chap. 19, 20, 21). His final chapter is an appeal to the reigning pope (Leo IX) to take action.

Blogger tz February 21, 2013 1:42 PM  

Continued:

That was in the 11th century. There is nothing new under the sun. We are repeating it including cover-ups and will keep this albatross around our necks until we come out weeping, in sackcloth and ashes, from the Pope (including Benedict 16 who knew but evaded!) down through the laymen that took payments to keep quiet and cover up instead of following canon and civil law. Pride is a soul-killer.

I can defend the institution without defending the corrupt members who have and are occupying the seats.

The popes ended up in Avignon for a while, and there were three (one real, two anti-popes, and no one knew which was which). They returned to Rome and we got the Borgia popes of whom it was said by a convert just after dealing with them that "No organization that stupid or corrupt could exist 14 weeks much less 14 centuries without the hand of God being upon them). I can go on, but most are more familiar with recent history. Is the Catholic Church the bride of Christ or Whore of Babylon? Both - And. God is merciful and tolerant. And it is the church established by Jesus for all its faults. It is mostly sinners interrupted by a few saints, and those saints said they themselves were corrupt even while doing holy works.

The thing is, other than a few clarifications when heretics kept popping up to deny what had been taught since the Apostles, the church's teachings have not changed since the Didichae. It didn't live up to the message, but there is the key difference. Catholics maintain they have no right to edit the message, they only deliver it. Part of Tradition is the proper interpretation of the Bible. And the ideas about what is sinful and what is not sinful. We can't change the rules, only do our best to convey and live by them ourselves, and do the proper penances when we fail. And we fail a lot.

The Catholic Church has always said "What God has put together..." means divorce is the myth. Gays can pretend to marry. Or you can pretend to be divorced, but if either partner remarries, they are committing adultery. Jesus said that in scripture. We didn't make it up, we are just repeating it. Contraception is equally a lie - JP2's theology of the body goes into it in deep but clear language, but in essence, you are withholding part of yourself - your fertility - when you should be giving yourselves to each other completely. Pleasure and unity are also an indispensable part of marriage - it is as much a lie if there is no love, but someone wants an heir.

The church has predicted what happens to a society that even merely bends the definition of family - including that it is a slippery slope. We had liberty when we had the old time religion idea of family. Today we want sexual license - and even in the churches the discussion is about how much license, not where did we go wrong. Some call that - including abortion - liberty. True liberty is only for the virtuous. Slaves to sin will accept any master who permits the sin.

It only takes one generation to fall - it is the one that looks at their parents having safe sex instead of sacrificial sex, and then does not know sacrifice. Yet it would take only one generation to recover everything, but that generation has to have a revival, an awakening, and return to virtue and obedience to what God has commanded. They can look at the wreckage of greed from materialism, divorce, free sex - and see it for the evil that it is, but it is still hard to do the right thing.

Anonymous Anonymous February 21, 2013 1:43 PM  

The Catholic Church was fully aware of their little 'problem' for decades. Solution? Move the priests to a new parish. Once the problem started to affect the Catholic Church hierarchy (bad publicity, financial costs), the Church acted...and aggressively screened out homosexuals. Pederasty stopped.

Onan was not condemned for masturbation. He was condemned for deliberately avoiding impregnating his (dead) brother's wife and thereby not allowing her (and his dead brother's) line continue. Genesis 38:9.

Tad can easily pass on his genes. He would have to put his penis in an (ovulating) woman's vagina instead of a man's rectum. Of course, now he can be a sperm donor. Or recruit. Hence the aggressive push to get into schools and Boy Scouts (now that they have been kicked out of the Catholic Church).

In terms of working woman and a slow slide into oblivion: birth rates are below replacement levels all across the Western world. Immigration from Third World countries will not preserve the West; it will hasten the decline.

This much should be obvious.

There is an inverse relationship between birth rates and female education. The higher the education, the less likely the woman is to have children. To put it bluntly, the wrong women are having children.

- Apollyon

Anonymous Mina February 21, 2013 1:52 PM  

I am horribly offended by the fact that we have a gay male feminist in our midst. There have to be some really good jokes there, but since I can't tell one to save my life I certainly hope some of you come up with them!

Is he not gone yet?

... and, oh right ... I almost forgot: Shut up, Tad.

Anonymous Josh February 21, 2013 2:03 PM  

Ain't no hamster like a catholic hamster

Anonymous Mina February 21, 2013 2:08 PM  

"> SELECT finger FROM hand WHERE id=3"

"Clearly not a zero-indexed collection."

Ok - Thank you. I have been sitting here trying to figure out 3 from 0 ... it's 3 from 1.

aaaaahhhhhh! - the life of a programmer.

From that: Obviously yes I do work - but I also had a bunch of kids. I like to think that my demographic is the "right" one. Hopefully one of mine will save the world ... We are pretty sure at least the boy will be an engineer.
Part of parcel with everything I have learned about men vs. women in the past few years, it was totally impossible to convince either of the girls to follow that track. Both are headed off to a Liberal Arts degree (bah, humbug!)

Other than those little nuggets I'm generally staying out of this discussion, for obvious reasons.

Blogger Giraffe February 21, 2013 2:10 PM  

Both are headed off to a Liberal Arts degree (bah, humbug!)

Why? They can sell french fries right now.

Blogger James Dixon February 21, 2013 2:15 PM  

> ...aaaaahhhhhh! - the life of a programmer.

You may be more familiar with the concept as the phrase "See Figure 1."

Anonymous Anonymous February 21, 2013 2:31 PM  

Nate: I mean what lady can resist a man that smells like gun powder and hoppes #9?

Hoppes #9 is magical but one of the best responses I've had from Mrs. M was when she saw me in an educational video in Confederate attire loading and firing a Sharpes carbine.
WGM

Anonymous Mina February 21, 2013 2:46 PM  

Giraffe February 21, 2013 2:10 PM:

Yep, I have explained that to them over and over. A Liberal Arts degree is a complete waste of time, money and energy.

Hopefully they meet their future husbands and get married early.

Blogger James Dixon February 21, 2013 2:50 PM  

> Hopefully they meet their future husbands and get married early.

The MRS degree. :) Seriously, that used to be why a good chunk of women went to college. To meet college educated men.

Anonymous DonReynolds February 21, 2013 3:07 PM  

You can honestly expect, as this entire circus slides beneath the waves, that there will be some difficult choices about who will be in the lifeboats and who will be left to swim in the icy water. (I used to ask my students to resolve the problem as part of their economics class.)

In an environment of scarcity, which is to say, there IS NOT ENOUGH of what is vital and necessary to sustain life for all who want it.....how do you decide who receives and who will be denied? (May as well start thinking about it now.) Who eats? Who gets water? Who gets a seat on the lifeboat? Who will get the kidney transplant? Who gets the medications they need?

In an environment devoid of that old Anglo-Saxon chivalry, there will be little interest in being valiant, or community minded, or some form of self-denial. No doubt some will, but the generations after me were not taught such rubbish because their female public school teachers insisted it was sexist. Girls can do anything that boys can. Remember? So will this allocation of survival be based on a rational plan and by deliberate decision or will it be left to the desperate rioters and looters? Will it be survival of the fittest, or the one with the most friends, or the most money, or just the pretty ones, or the smart ones? That choice is coming and refusing to make that choice does not make it go away. Turning away, IS one of the choices.

Anonymous Mina February 21, 2013 3:19 PM  

James Dixon February 21, 2013 2:50 PM:

Yep, no one told me that in the 80s and I ended up with STEM degree and a career instead.

It all ended well but it might not have. I got lucky.

Hopefully it will all come in handy when the economy and society collapse.

Anonymous tinlaw February 21, 2013 3:28 PM  

@Nate
"Ok well... its mostly video games..."

I figured as much. But with the cost of ammo these days, who can blame you?

Anonymous Papapete February 21, 2013 4:09 PM  

"I figured as much. But with the cost of ammo these days, who can blame you?"

Try airsoft or BB guns. There are some pretty good imitation pistols either way, and you can shoot very cheaply. In addition you can build a decent range in your basement.

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 5:19 PM  

"Ok - Thank you. I have been sitting here trying to figure out 3 from 0 ... it's 3 from 1.

aaaaahhhhhh! - the life of a programmer. "

My apologies...

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 5:20 PM  

"I figured as much. But with the cost of ammo these days, who can blame you?"

.22 is cheap enough. I love .22mag. kill a lot of turtles with it. Almost like a real cartridge.

Blogger Random February 21, 2013 5:21 PM  

"Try airsoft or BB guns."

That's like telling a man in search of a prostitute to "read a Glamour magazine."

Not really where he wanted to end up.

Blogger tz February 21, 2013 5:33 PM  

Meanwhile in South Korea:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/world/asia/in-korea-changes-in-society-and-family-dynamics-drive-rise-in-elderly-suicides.html?hp&_r=0

Anonymous tinlaw February 21, 2013 7:09 PM  

@papapete - we own a rock quarry, so the range isn't an issue at all. We also own a gun shop, but even getting dealer pricing on ammo it takes a big chunk of change to keep up the skills, especially in a large-ish family. (Doing my part to keep birth rates higher)

Blogger Nate February 21, 2013 8:38 PM  

Tinlaw... y'all havin' any luck stocking reloading components? primers and such? My reloading habbits have gone seriously old school do to supply issues. Hell I'm back to IMR 3012 for .308... like its 1980 or something...

Anonymous One With Chaos February 22, 2013 12:42 AM  

Watching Vox take a dump on this feminist idiot and then rub her face in it was the highpoint of my day,it's fun precisely because literally anyone can do it with a minimum of training, and it's for a good cause-win/win.

By the way,women, NOBODY is intimidated by you. Not even little kids. As anyone who's ever watched Jerry Springer or any of these types of shows can attest. I've seen twelve year olds slapping ya'll around like pimps who've heard one too many excuses and now want to see their money. And ya'll just roll over and take it. FROM LITTLE KIDS! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

YOU are intimidated by men. It is obvious from the hatred you heap upon us as a sex for no discernible reason,the haste with which you attack us, it is even present in your desire to push men out of their jobs and leave them financially destiute, KNOWING that if worse comes to worst,YOU can turn to prostitution whereas men have to either starve to death or engage in crimes where they punish the PERPETRATOR of the crime, not its ostensible "victims".

People fear what they don't understand, and they hate what they fear, and they commit violence against that which they hate and fear.

Men aren't trying to take YOUR jobs. Not only do we not want them,taking them simply to deprive you of them would be some kindergarten-level bullshit that might be ok for immature degenerates like yourself,but repulsive to someone who has mentally matured into a fully-functioning healthy adult.

I mean,first of all, "you're intimidated by strong women" rests upon the Apex Fallacy (In that,it is assumed that I am a high-status male with something to lose in the first place,but beyond that, the charge assumes I am one of the males to whose position a woman might aspire-FAR,FAR, above the pay grade of the average man),so it's bunk bullshit from the get-go. Second of all, you actually think you have a shot at displacing the wealthiest and most successful 1% (or indeed, ANY sufficiently talented and gifted man) of men? Of being a real threat to their jobs? HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAA!

You're fucking megalomaniacal if you honestly believe that. According to you, being a white heterosexual man, I'm given the keys to the city with my birth certificate and I'd be dragged out by security before one of those rich douchebags even let me take a leak in the bathroom of one of their buildings. By your own tautology, if I can't do it, and I can't (not because of my race,sex,or sexual orientation but because the top 1% is still partially a meritocracy) then you have NO chance. Zero. Zilch. Zip. NADA. They aren't threatened by me. And I'm not threatened by you.

It's hard to fear a group of people who get punked by third graders on national tv on a fairly regular basis.

Anonymous Prof William Huggins of Ettenmoor University February 22, 2013 7:52 AM  

The problem I see with the Roman Catholic teaching on sex and reproduction is that its economically illiterate. It leads to so-called "good Catholics" producing loads of children and dumping them on society in general.

Back in the days when most people born would die in childhood (or so we're told) this sort of fecundity might make an ugly sort of Rabbit-People sense.
But in today's world? It consigns entire countries to overpopulation, squalor, poverty and degradation.
Third World societies that build giant gold statues of the "Virgin Mary" while most of the people there suffer from malnutrition. And shamelessly begging for aid (from the Protestants of course, who else?) so they can build even more silly shrines and whatnot, and breed even more miserable people.

That's not civilization.

Anonymous Luke February 22, 2013 1:11 PM  

More on how Dad long-term staying home with the kids while Mom goes to work at a glittering career routinely destroys the family:

From Roger Devlin's "Home Economics": Feminist observer Janet Steil found, however, that "couples will go to great lengths to conceal a high-earning wife's income to protect the husband's status as primary provider." [17] There is a sound reason for that: overt, prolonged role reversal is fatal to marriage. Researcher Liz Gallese thought she had finally found an example of a happy role-reversal marriage: the wife's career was more successful than the husband's, so he began looking after their child to let her focus on work (the economically rational thing to do). The woman seemed proud of her accomplishments and happy with the arrangement; and Gallese must have thought she had a bestseller on her hands. The reality came to light only when she began speaking to the husband. It turns out that the couple had entirely ceased having sexual relations. Armed with that new information, Gallese began probing more deeply into the wife's sentiments. The woman eventually admitted she wanted another child, but — not by her husband.

"I absolutely refuse to sleep with that man," she declared; "I'll never have sex with him again." Instead, she was now flirting with other successful businessmen. She did not divorce her husband, however; he was still too useful as a nanny for the child. [18] Such would appear to be the thanks men can expect for accommodating their wife's career and "sharing the housework."

Anonymous Anonymous February 23, 2013 5:22 PM  

Greencarman here...

"People fear what they don't understand, and they hate what they fear, and they commit violence against that which they hate and fear."

One With Chaos, you should look in the mirror as you make this statement.

OpenID judgybitch.com February 25, 2013 12:58 PM  

Number one occupational category for women:

Neurosurgeon.

No wait. Oops. I meant electrician.

Oh wait, no that's not right either.

Engineer!

Well, sort of.

Number one occupational category for women: SECRETARY!

Yay!

They know the alphabet, how to use a phone and all the days of the week.

Bravo, ladies!

Blogger Danielle Paradis February 27, 2013 12:12 AM  

Hello Vox,

I made this video for you: http://youtu.be/yIXKNMteJqg

xoxox
Dani

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