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Monday, February 25, 2013

Refusing to sell the rope

That could be used to hang the American people.  These firearms companies deserve the business of all pro-freedom, pro-Second Amendment individuals:
A growing number of firearm and firearm-related companies have stated they will no longer sell items to states, counties, cities and municipalities that restrict their citizens' rights to own them.  According to The Police Loophole, 34 companies have joined in publicly stating that governments who seek to restrict 2nd Amendment rights will themselves be restricted from purchasing the items they seek to limit or ban.
 You can see the entire list here.

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68 Comments:

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 February 25, 2013 4:10 PM  

That's when the government just takes the munitions in the name of defending us from the the terrorists...who are also all of us.

Anonymous Konstantinos February 25, 2013 4:25 PM  

Molon Agora!!

Come and Buy Them!!

Anonymous Daniel February 25, 2013 4:27 PM  

That's when the government just takes the munitions in the name of defending us from the the terrorists...who are also all of us.

Sounds good. While they Waco their way through a cluster or two, everyone else can read the writing on the wall, and act accordingly.

Thus will the simple, ancient sentence be fulfilled:

Scalzi squeed.

Anonymous Papapete February 25, 2013 4:30 PM  

Kansas has a bill under consideration that says that firearms and ammunition manufactured and remaining within the state are not subject to the interstate commerce rules and thus not subject to federal regulation and makes it a felony for any federal agent to try to enforce the law in the state. It could be interesting if it comes to a federal-state showdown.

Anonymous David February 25, 2013 4:34 PM  

This is encouraging, as are the 65 million firearms purchased by American citizens since Obama first took office.

Anonymous CunningDove February 25, 2013 4:36 PM  

LaRue Tactical has some nice products available. Seriously looking at purchasing one of them.

Anonymous Nick February 25, 2013 4:38 PM  

Look, it's a nice sentiment but I'd bet almost none of those companies has ever or would have ever sold anything to a NY agency anyway. Makes for a nice peacock though.

Anonymous jay c February 25, 2013 4:41 PM  

BTW, now that printable guns and magazines are possible, one of our enterprising chemists and/or engineers needs to invent a home-makeable replacement for gun powder. We need to completely remove the ability of the government to regulate firearms in any meaningful way.

Anonymous jack February 25, 2013 4:43 PM  

Nick may be right about that. The biggie on the list, Barrett, of the wonderful .50 sniper rifles, probably sell most of their wares to the US military and, to a lessor extent, private buyers. Of course, the people in DC would probably just 'transfer' stocks of military weapons to the police come a real crunch.
I do applaud those outlets that are doing this...

Anonymous Nick February 25, 2013 4:47 PM  

There is a big difference between printing a no-load lower receiver and a pressure-holding barrel/chamber. We don't have printable guns.

Anonymous Nick February 25, 2013 4:48 PM  

Don't get me wrong, these are good things. It's just a bad idea to overestimate one's position.

Anonymous Anonymous February 25, 2013 4:49 PM  

I hate “waxing philosophic.” I rarely do so outside of a homiletical context, and even then, I am quite wary. Logic, context, history (henceforth - LCH). . . they can beat the snot out of one not already prepared beforehand.

I rarely comment here . . . I enjoy Vox’s intellectual arrogance - he has, pretty much so - earned it. Of course, he has his detractors - what critic of the “commonly” held LCH is not subject to those who haven’t the first clue of what it is to which they speak.

We are watching the collapse of the American Empire right before our eyes open wide-shut. As a Republic . . . well . . . Lincoln solved that little dilemma fairly early on - only cost 650,000 lives, minuscule next to 20th century standards. Obama is not any of the things he imagines of himself. He is owned, and says what his invisible handlers wish him to say. He is but yet another symptom of our collective collapse.

Of course, we will have to progress through totalitarianism - pretty much unavoidable according to LCH and all. It must be both fought, and endured. But gummint, sooner or later, when it has exceeded its bounds, always falls and collapses. We are, to paraphrase Dickens, living in the best of times or the worst of times. Worst if fear is the “ace” in your hand (which it is in the hands of far too many); or the best - if one has girded one’s loins to be a part of history. I like the latter option. As Chesterton once said: “Their is an infinity of angles by which one might fall, but only one by which one migth stand.” He was enough of a Christian and a gentleman not to reduce himself to simply saying F-U.

What shall be? What is. Chaos. It will just intensify. LCH will be ignored by most, and those smart enough to duck and weave will survive, and perhaps, even - thrive. The present time, and the next lesson of history will be very instructive. At present, for my part, while sensing the potential and likely impending doom, I am likewise welcoming it. And likewise, the next lesson history is offering.

It’s always good to clean the toilet.

jb

Anonymous dh February 25, 2013 4:52 PM  

It could be interesting if it comes to a federal-state showdown.

It could be. But it probably won't be. States have tried this on a few other issues, and Federal courts have generally frowned upon it.

And then it comes what is Kansas going to do?

Anonymous Spoos in August February 25, 2013 4:55 PM  

ArmaLite refuses to sell to agencies which restrict ownership of their guns, but still sells to individual officers. The really big boys aren't going to budge (though it does look like Magpul will be leaving Colorado, and Beretta may be leaving Maryland).

N.Y. will likely amend the SAFE act soon so that the Only Ones are properly exempt (as, currently, they are not-- oops). An added clause permitting Remington to keep operating is likely also on the cards.

Funny how most of the authorized press has failed to ask why peace officers need weapons of war that are verboten for all the untermenschen without badges.

Blogger tz February 25, 2013 5:30 PM  

And then it comes what is Kansas going to do?

Bloody Kansas again. In sequence, declare the nullity of the federal nonsense. Shoot the feds stupid enough to encroach, have local juries nullify the laws which convict the protectors (George Tiller's killer was only a bit early).

But this goes back to the federal government providing such neat toys if the police just sell out their souls.

Will any of the above companies stop selling to the feds? If the feds buy them and give them along with APCs, tanks, tasers, and the rest?

Blogger James Dixon February 25, 2013 5:45 PM  

> And then it comes what is Kansas going to do?

Require Kansas citizens to pay all federal taxes to the state. And then refuse to hand the money over.

Anonymous civilServant February 25, 2013 5:46 PM  

Ruger is not on the list. Nor Glock. Nor Smith & Wesson. The boycott is ineffectual.

Anonymous WaterBoy February 25, 2013 5:58 PM  

While I applaud the sentiment, it's hard to see that it will amount to much of anything, really. Considering the restrictions already in place against automatic weapons, the US military currently seems to have no problem getting them. Or will these restrictions be "grandfathered" in?

All it will take to get around this at the state/local level is to have federal agencies purchase them and pass them out to the affected state agencies.

Anonymous Noah B. February 25, 2013 6:08 PM  

"Require Kansas citizens to pay all federal taxes to the state. And then refuse to hand the money over."

And then begin a series of massive construction projects to improve the roads and utilities surrounding federal facilities.

Anonymous Noah B. February 25, 2013 6:14 PM  

"All it will take to get around this at the state/local level is to have federal agencies purchase them and pass them out to the affected state agencies."

You're right as to the practical effect of this, but if I'm in the market for a firearm, I would vastly prefer to buy from a company that's actively standing up for freedom. Maybe the larger companies will follow suit, and maybe the policy will be extended to the feds too.

And if not, it's still a huge shift in attitude from what we saw in 1994.



Anonymous Toolbox February 25, 2013 6:15 PM  

What I am seeing among the firearms manufacturers is a lack of principle and morality in their statements. People are reading the statements, but they don't always say what it appears they're saying. Few are giving up federal contracts. Few are taking any time to educate the public/customer on the principle behind the policy.

Still I applaud the thought. What is needed is total consolidation among the manufacturers, distributors and retailers. And finally, the consumer needs to join in. But how many here and there are going to give up on their beloved Grawk or HK or S&W when it comes time for the next purchase?

65 million firearms to public hands in a short time period vs. government contract for 120,000 M4s for a large, coveted military contract? Not enough other gov contracts out there to make up the difference.

Blogger JaimeInTexas February 25, 2013 6:42 PM  

Require the firearms manufactured in Arkansas, for example, to be stamped as such and that they are not for sale iutside of Arkansas. Then, tell the Feds to take a hike. Hmmm, do the same with cars.

Blogger Duke of Earl February 25, 2013 6:46 PM  

Off topic, but given early discussions I though you might enjoy this Vox.

Jerry Walls: What's Wrong With Calvinism

Anonymous . February 25, 2013 7:20 PM  

A better strategy would be to charge the "bad" governments 10x the price charged to regular citizens.

Anonymous paradox February 25, 2013 7:33 PM  

civilServant February 25, 2013 5:46 PM
Ruger is not on the list. Nor Glock. Nor Smith & Wesson. The boycott is ineffectual.


I don't think you will ever see Glock on that list. Gaston just sold a big order of G17 Gen 4's to one of the biggest gun banning countries, the United Kingdom.

Anonymous cherub's revenge February 25, 2013 7:59 PM  

I don't think you will ever see Glock on that list. Gaston just sold a big order of G17 Gen 4's to one of the biggest gun banning countries, the United Kingdom.

Do any of the 1911 cheering squad here also hold the Hi-Power in high regard over Tupperware pistols?

Blogger Phoenician February 25, 2013 8:09 PM  

While I applaud the sentiment, it's hard to see that it will amount to much of anything, really. Considering the restrictions already in place against automatic weapons, the US military currently seems to have no problem getting them. Or will these restrictions be "grandfathered" in?

Yup. Obviously Dipshit and the fools cheering him on fail to understand simple supply and demand.

Anonymous LES February 25, 2013 8:09 PM  

Liberalism is authoritarian and totalitarian. Here's proof in Oregon:

http://www.leg.state.or.us/13reg/measpdf/hb3200.dir/hb3200.intro.pdf

Anonymous DT February 25, 2013 8:12 PM  

It could be interesting if it comes to a federal-state showdown.

It's only interesting if the state refuses to be bound by any Federal court decision. I'll feel encouraged if Kansas passes the law, and then refuses to even participate in any Federal lawsuit by sending a simple message to the courts: "We don't recognize your jurisdiction or authority in this matter. Have a nice day."

Anonymous cherub's revenge February 25, 2013 8:29 PM  

Liberalism is authoritarian and totalitarian. Here's proof in Oregon:

http://www.leg.state.or.us/13reg/measpdf/hb3200.dir/hb3200.intro.pdf


Reading the names of the author and the sponsors, it looks like your same tribe of Bolsheviks found on the federal level who don't want Whitey to own guns.

Anonymous HH February 25, 2013 8:36 PM  

"Ruger is not on the list. Nor Glock. Nor Smith & Wesson. The boycott is ineffectual."

There's actually no one on the list that actually means anything to any state or fed agency. All the big guys salivate over getting a mil contract and will not bite the hand that beats them.

Not on list

Ruger
S&W
H&K
Beretta
Colt
Armlite
Mossberg
Savage
Remington
glock
springfield
.... list goes on and on...

These are companies that care about profits -- they would sell to the North Koreans if they had the money....

Anonymous Jack Amok February 25, 2013 8:45 PM  

Still I applaud the thought. What is needed is total consolidation among the manufacturers, distributors and retailers. And finally, the consumer needs to join in. But how many here and there are going to give up on their beloved Grawk or HK or S&W when it comes time for the next purchase?


Yeah, cartels are always highly effective.

Anonymous castricv February 25, 2013 8:51 PM  

This is civic minded business at its finest. Yes, this is easier when your core customers support the move. But a just move is a just move despite how "easy" it may have been. Remember, the government will get its weapons, and some company will supply it eventually, whether it be foreign or not. Here's to the hope that they start buying from foreign sellers and the GOP for once eviscerates them properly for the treasonous as clowns we have now.

Anonymous zen0 February 25, 2013 8:54 PM  

Waterboy said:

While I applaud the sentiment, it's hard to see that it will amount to much of anything, really. Considering the restrictions already in place against automatic weapons, the US military currently seems to have no problem getting them. Or will these restrictions be "grandfathered" in?

All it will take to get around this at the state/local level is to have federal agencies purchase them and pass them out to the affected state agencies.


Do you seriously think Vox is saying it will? That would mean you can't read.

Anonymous Anonymous February 25, 2013 8:55 PM  

"Do any of the 1911 cheering squad here also hold the Hi-Power in high regard over Tupperware pistols?"

I do. And my mother who is 71 likes it as well. Not that I think Glocks are crappy or bad, they are fine pistols. But the Hi Power Standard just moves me.

- Stupido

Anonymous zen0 February 25, 2013 8:56 PM  

Phoenician says: Yup. Obviously Dipshit and the fools cheering him on fail to understand simple supply and demand.

You just applauded a statement by someone who has serious reading comprehension. Just another example of your lack of basic intelligence.

Nice work.

Anonymous re allow anonymous comments February 25, 2013 9:09 PM  

@ HH "they would sell to the North Koreans if they had the money...."


Is selling to North Korea supposed to be a bad thing? North Korean government has treated me way better than the US government has.

Anonymous Toolbox February 25, 2013 9:16 PM  

@ Jack Amok

I was referring to a consolidated stance by the manuf. distributors, retailers. I did not mean consolidating the companies into one company. This should be the stance of citizenry for freedom against the tyranny of governments.

Anonymous cherub's revenge February 25, 2013 10:15 PM  

@ HH "they would sell to the North Koreans if they had the money...."


Is selling to North Korea supposed to be a bad thing? North Korean government has treated me way better than the US government has.


No zipperhead ever called me a goy.

Anonymous Outlaw X February 25, 2013 10:49 PM  

Ha! Reverse gun control.

Anonymous Vidad February 25, 2013 11:08 PM  

Rock on. Killer list.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewRjZoRtu0Y

Anonymous Mr. Pea February 25, 2013 11:58 PM  

On principle, it is good. But it won't even make a dent.

Anonymous Outlaw X February 26, 2013 12:14 AM  

On principle, it is good. But it won't even make a dent.

BS, 100,000 sodiers coudn't hold Bagdad and you won't find but 10% of those who would shoot Americans. They lose! The banker conglemerate know their ass is on the line. Whether I am around to see it or not, I know the outcome.

Anonymous Brian February 26, 2013 1:01 AM  

A firearm post with less than 200 comments? The Ilk must be taking a day off...

Anonymous Mr. Pea February 26, 2013 1:17 AM  

BS, 100,000 sodiers coudn't hold Bagdad and you won't find but 10% of those who would shoot Americans.

I don't know what that has to do with my comment, but... what planet do you live on?

See, your problem is that you think this will be an accidental thing. When in reality, this has been planned for a very long time. You can count on more government entities shooting at you more than you think.

Besides... someone has to worship the Beast. And he will have his time for a season. Then they lose.

Anonymous WaterBoy February 26, 2013 2:36 AM  

zen0: "Do you seriously think Vox is saying it will? That would mean you can't read."

No, I don't; I never said anything about Vox.

Talk about comprehension problems -- how did you get to that conclusion from what I said?

Anonymous VryeDenker February 26, 2013 2:42 AM  

If you watch a few shows like America's Dumbest Criminals, Cops, and whatever else, you'll notice that there is a trend among law-enforcement officials to treat citizens like shit. And that's only the stuff that happens ON CAMERA. I once saw a cop body slam a woman who was pulled over for talking on her cellphone. When she resisted, a second cop runs up and slams into her, pinning her down and cuffing her. It's not a great leap from that to emptying a magazine into you if you are male and armed. He'll probably not even need counseling afterward.

Still, your cops have nothing on our's.

Anonymous Outlaw X February 26, 2013 2:44 AM  

I don't know what that has to do with my comment, but... what planet do you live on?

See, your problem is that you think this will be an accidental thing. When in reality, this has been planned for a very long time. You can count on more government entities shooting at you more than you think.

Besides... someone has to worship the Beast. And he will have his time for a season. Then they lose.


Well, if you can't figure out what I say welcome to the club. As Nate says 90% of what Outlaw says no one understands. He may be right, And I don't say things lightly unless something amuses me.. Don't worry Mrs Pea I don't dislike you, but maybe just on the outside chance I can see some things most people can't. And if you figure it out, what I said had everything to do with your post.

May God bless and protect you in the times ahead. I think you are a wonderful person.

Anonymous Outlaw X February 26, 2013 2:51 AM  

Sorry, I meant Mr. Pea, that was an accident.

Anonymous zen0 February 26, 2013 5:50 AM  

Waterboy:

No, I don't; I never said anything about Vox.

It wasn't clear who you were responding to. I had therefore to assume it was the post, especially when Phoenician agreed, and he is an idiot.

Blogger James Higham February 26, 2013 6:55 AM  

Well done to them. Their names should be up in bright lights.

Anonymous Edjamacator February 26, 2013 9:04 AM  

I once saw a cop body slam a woman who was pulled over for talking on her cellphone. When she resisted, a second cop runs up and slams into her, pinning her down and cuffing her.

Yes, and I enjoy the target practice cutouts some cops are using now. They're pregnant women and kids. Nothing like desensitizing the stormtroopers to shooting kids. I wonder how many get a secret thrill out of it.

Anonymous RedJack February 26, 2013 9:21 AM  

jay c February 25, 2013 4:41 PM BTW, now that printable guns and magazines are possible, one of our enterprising chemists and/or engineers needs to invent a home-makeable replacement for gun powder. We need to completely remove the ability of the government to regulate firearms in any meaningful way.


Doable, but not very safe. The trick is getting the burn rate right. When I was a kid, a friend had the old "Poor Man's James Bond" books. If I remember right, there was a section on making smokeless powder. My friend's Dad tried it as an experiment, and it didn't work to well. Modern double base powder is very difficult to make at home. As an Chemical Engineer, I wouldn't try it.

Anonymous Mina February 26, 2013 10:45 AM  

"there is a trend among law-enforcement officials to treat citizens like shit."

Video taken at newly-installed "DHS Immigration Checkpoints" all around the USSA.

DHS resistance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u4Ku17CqdZg#!

Anonymous Asher February 26, 2013 11:28 AM  

@ tz

Shoot the feds stupid enough to encroach, have local juries nullify the laws which convict the protectors (George Tiller's killer was only a bit early).

Are you saying that George Tiller was a federal agent enforcing federal laws? See, this statement displays the stupidity of being fanatically, ideologically pro-life.

Anonymous civilServant February 26, 2013 11:53 AM  

All the big guys salivate over getting a mil contract and will not bite the hand that beats them.

What is the ratio of civilian vs government sales?

Blogger JohnG February 26, 2013 12:09 PM  

I like the Browning Hi Power...Cylinder and Slide says they can fix those up and make them a respectable gun for a piddling $3000'ish...

So, I'll admire from afar and keep my Kimber (10mm).

Anonymous patrick kelly February 26, 2013 12:58 PM  

"Do any of the 1911 cheering squad here also hold the Hi-Power in high regard over Tupperware pistols?"

I don't dislike poly framed pistols, but I'll cheer the Hi-Power. And mine stock is much more than just a respectable gun for much less than $3K if you judge it by performance across a course of fire in my hands and not by marketing buzz words that may or may not translate into more zombies being dead than not.

Much more comfortable for CC on my frame than a full size 1911, most of the smaller ones have their own problems. I have nothing against Kimber in any caliber, just don't own one, never shot or carried one. For open carry in a hot zone I would prefer the full size 1911 for the sole purpose of fighting my way to my battle rifle should I manage to be separated from it for some stupid reason, assuming I can't just nuke it all from orbit and fly back to planet Patrica with all the unobtainium I could possibly use.

Anonymous WaterBoy February 26, 2013 2:23 PM  

zen0: "It wasn't clear who you were responding to. I had therefore to assume it was the post"

It was a response to the post, but it was not directed at Vox...it was just a general observation.

Take Barrett, for example, which posted this announcement:

Barrett opposes those who are illegally disarming the American public from their efficient arms and creating superior armed elitist government agencies.

Elected state officials of New York, having been sworn to protect our Constitution, have instead committed an offense against it and their citizens by stripping inalienable rights duly protected and guaranteed under the Second Amendment. By their deliberate and sinister actions, these officials now cause their state and local policing agencies to enforce these unconstitutional and illegal so called “laws”.

By current law, Barrett cannot be an accomplice with any lawbreaker, therefore, cannot and will not service or sell to New York government agencies. Barrett also applies this stance to the individual elected official who, as a matter of public record, has voted for or created regulation that violates the constitutional rights of their citizens. This is an expansion of our 2002 ban against the California government due to their second amendment infringements, and shall apply to any future violators.


Well, guess what? FedGov violated those same Second Amendment rights in 1934 with the National Firearms Act, yet Barret is still selling weapons to the DoD and other federal government agencies. That's why I mentioned these older restrictions being "grandfathered in" under this expanded policy.

Again, I applaud these companies for their intentions. And I don't fault the owners for looking after the financial health of their respective companies. They're just not all as uncompromising as they may seem.

zen0: "Phoenician...is an idiot"

Agreed.

Anonymous WaterBoy February 26, 2013 2:41 PM  

civilServant: "What is the ratio of civilian vs government sales?"

It varies widely by manufacturer. For some, their primary income is from the US military and other government agencies. But even then, they still rely on civilian sales to maintain manufacturing capabilities through lean times, which would otherwise have to be curtailed or closed when government sales fall off.

Again, I point to Barrett's position:

United States defense contractors such as Barrett Firearms Manufacturing, Inc., Murfreesboro, TN USA rely on orders from the US Military as a primary source of income but this government income for most contractors is only part of the necessary income for long term survival. Commercial or civilian product sales are also a main source of income that makes payroll and for good working conditions for their employees. We must support these defense contractors in both peace and war and allow them to operate, market and sell their products under the rules, regulations and law of the Federal Government. There is a balance of customers among defense contractors that is necessary for sound, long term business and by eliminating commercial sales in California this balance is disrupted. To vote against .50 cal rifles puts jobs of your constituents as risk, the lives of your police at risk, and in the end the safety of the State of California at risk. Are you willing to jeopardize this?

Lately, though, it has been leaning heavily toward civilian. For example, take this report from a few weeks ago, which tells of manufacturers running at full capacity and turning down new orders. For what it's worth.

Interestingly enough, it also says that most ammo production is going to the military. With most combat operations largely wound down in Afghanistan, where is all of it going? It's possible that it's only being used to restock depleted depots, but that's also quesionable.

Blogger JohnG February 26, 2013 3:16 PM  

"Much more comfortable for CC on my frame than a full size 1911" ~PK

You'd be, I think, the first person I've ever read/talked to that said that they didn't need some work out of the box. Then again, they're not unpopular after 78 years. I have a Kahr PM45 for carry (mainly because it fits nicely in an inside-the-pocket holder or a crotch holster). The Kimbers are a poor mans Les Baer or Wilson Combat - shoot as well as those pistols but cost about 1/3.

Anonymous patrick kelly February 26, 2013 7:15 PM  


re: JohnG "You'd be, I think, the first person I've ever read/talked to that said that they didn't need some work out of the box."

Well, I have no desire to own some kind of ninja race gun. I've read about all of the recommended tweaking of safeties and triggers etc. and frankly when I'm running through a course clearing zombie targets, I never ever notice any of the crappy trigger pull etc. I barely remember drawing or aiming after that buzzer goes off, I tend to be slo-mo tunnel focused on delivering lead and evaluating how/what I did afterword. I've never had a problem I could honestly attribute to any defect, real or imagined, in the Hi-Power. Other peoples mileage may vary. I've had similar experience with stock, out of the box 1911's with less than sexy names on them, granted they were pretty broken in, but not modified at all.

I do not like the holster selection for the Hi-Power, most off the shelf stuff is marketed as a 1911/hi-power catch all. They are NOT the same size, and I've been able to use one that was a bit tight on the 1911 as "good enough", but would prefer a more custom fit.

How do you like that PM45? I'm currently considering looking at compact 45's for carry again. What I didn't like about the officer size 1911 was it didn't feel as balanced and natural in my hand while shooting, I actually had to pay attention to my grip etc., unlike my experience with full size 1911 or the Hi-Power. Plus it did kick and flip a bit more.

Blogger Duke of Earl February 26, 2013 7:44 PM  

I would like a Glock 26 with a Lone Wolf barrel and DPM recoil reducing kit. 115 grain JHP

Would like, but the legal channels in New Zealand for owning firearms, especially handguns, are kind of annoying.

Anonymous civilServant February 26, 2013 10:02 PM  

Jerry Walls: What's Wrong With Calvinism

"This has been a philosophical theological lecture. I have not gone into expounding the bible."

It shows. A good calvinist need only cite a few verses to refute him.

Blogger Duke of Earl February 27, 2013 3:04 PM  

Actually he has 3 other lectures where he shows that Calvinist proof texts are taken out of context.

Also, his arguments were based on what is actually taught by Calvinists. Claiming that you can refute a philosophical argument against philosophical arguments by pulling out Bible verses is quite irrational. (I suppose you can appeal to mystery)

Anonymous civilServant February 27, 2013 5:55 PM  

Actually he has 3 other lectures where he shows that Calvinist proof texts are taken out of context.

Yes I see the links to those lectures. It appears that the purpose of the first lecture is to prep the ground for acceptance of the next three. I will of course watch them but likely they will simply continue the assumptions of the first.

Also, his arguments were based on what is actually taught by Calvinists.

Yes. But he fails to discuss or mention or even hint why they teach it. He attempts to refute the teaching before addressing the Bible verses that underlie the teaching.

Claiming that you can refute a philosophical argument against philosophical arguments by pulling out Bible verses is quite irrational.

Attempting to refute a teaching without addressing the basis for it is irrational.

Blogger Duke of Earl February 27, 2013 7:17 PM  

That was his most recent lecture, the others were done before that. IV-VI are his lectures on the biblical texts and their social/historical context.

Blogger Duke of Earl February 27, 2013 7:22 PM  

IV

V

VI

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