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Thursday, February 14, 2013

This would be hilarious

If it weren't for the dead victims of "law enforcement".  The Cleveland police make the arson-happy LAPD look downright competent by comparison:
A November car chase ended in a "full blown-out" firefight, with glass and bullets flying, according to Cleveland police officers who described for investigators the chaotic scene at the end of the deadly 25-minute pursuit. 

But when the smoky haze -- caused by rapid fire of nearly 140 bullets in less than 30 seconds -- dissipated, it soon became clear that more than a dozen officers had been firing at one another across a middle school parking lot in East Cleveland.
Soon after the shooting stopped, one officer rushed to check the two occupants of the 1979 Chevrolet Malibu that the cadre of Cleveland cruisers had followed into the lot.

Officer Wilfredo Diaz, a former city EMS worker, had fired the first shots at the Malibu after bailing out of his car. He felt for passenger Malissa Williams' pulse.
There wasn't one.

Diaz moved Williams' leg slightly to look for a gun. Again, there wasn't one. Dead next to Williams in the driver's seat was Timothy Russell, 43.  No officers were injured. 
My favorite part is the way they were so desperate to find a gun in order to try to pin the blame on the corpses that they sent divers into the river, never mind that a gun in the river couldn't have been involved in the parking lot shootout.

Labels:

109 Comments:

Anonymous JartStar February 14, 2013 1:59 PM  

Though investigators never located a gun, they could not rule out the possibility that the suspects had one at some point during the chase before entering the parking lot.

They also couldn't rule out the possibility that the suspects had a unicorn in the trunk before entering the parking lot.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein February 14, 2013 2:00 PM  

Link is giving me "Error 502 Bad Request"


Story of my life.......

Anonymous yup February 14, 2013 2:01 PM  

Law Enfarcement...

Blogger Laramie Hirsch February 14, 2013 2:04 PM  

Shitty fucking policy. Shoot first?!? If this is how cops are gonna be, then who needs them?

Anonymous 43rd Virginia Calalry February 14, 2013 2:05 PM  

A 79 Malibu is so slow that an officer could have nearly jogged along side and taken the wheel.

Anonymous Anonymous February 14, 2013 2:06 PM  

Vox, you and the Ilk have to see this if you haven't already:

http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/chris-dorner-last-stand-video-game-4chan/

Sorry for no name...s/b cshizzle

Anonymous Noah B. February 14, 2013 2:15 PM  

Remember when the US would condemn South Africa for this sort of thing?

Blogger WATYF February 14, 2013 2:17 PM  

I think my favorite part is how multiple cops in the article say some variation of the phrase, "I've never been more afraid in my life". It's good to see that all that police union legal coaching is paying off. :Op

WATYF

Anonymous Anonymous February 14, 2013 2:24 PM  

"No officers were injured."

That seems to be the only justification necessary for extrajudicial murders these days.

MALTHUS

Anonymous Anonymous February 14, 2013 2:25 PM  

You guys just don't know what you're talking about, have you ever heard what a newspaper sounds like when it hits the pavement? You can't judge them unless you've been a cop.... At least that's what this retired cops at the barber shop said to everyone when we were criticizing the LAPD's shooting of two little old ladies in a blue pick-up.

It will never change and cops are getting more and more trigger happy as they seem immune from and sort of consequences.

Anonymous Daniel February 14, 2013 2:26 PM  

Pretty impressive that, for once, the cops hit what they were aiming for. One of the most entertaining aspects of COPS was the occasional point blank gunfights that ended when guns were empty and everybody was just fine.

Anonymous DrTorch February 14, 2013 2:33 PM  

Looks like the cops are more clever than you think.

By burning up Dorner, they saved themselves a cool $1.2M

http://www.tmz.com/2013/02/13/christopher-dorner-reward-one-million-dollars-loophole/

Hard to believe this outcome wasn't the plan.

Blogger Giraffe February 14, 2013 2:37 PM  

never mind that a gun in the river couldn't have been involved in the parking lot shootout.

True. But one of the officers had reported them pointing a gun out the window during the chase. [Probably giving the finger]. At least if they had found a gun, they'd have had a poor excuse for being so jumpy.

I wonder why there isn't much being made about the cops intentionally burning Dorner out.

Anonymous Daniel February 14, 2013 2:37 PM  

Hard to believe this outcome wasn't the plan.

Others and myself pointed this out long before the cabin was torched. It was widely accepted that capture was never the intended outcome. This was a hit and whitewash, planned from the beginning. Do doubt. They accidentally burned the cabin down like they accidentally burned Mt. Carmel down.

Good thing they are publicly funded or else they might have behaved like unaccountable thugs.

Anonymous GreyS February 14, 2013 2:38 PM  

The video game/movie mentality gets them going and then they freak out in trigger-pulling terror. Based on the reaction in many areas to the Dorner thing, I have to think that cop assassination will become more and more common as more and more events like this one occur.

(with the predictable follow-up-- more calls for gun control, increased militarization of police, increase drone usage, video surveillance etc)

Anonymous Daniel February 14, 2013 2:40 PM  

Just to be clear, the "capture and conviction" clauses were specifically targeted as reasons why no one with decent knowledge of the guy would turn him in: why go snitch when the "money" was being offered with such obvious loopholes. Publishers Clearing House is less easily exposed in its deception.

Anonymous Stilicho February 14, 2013 2:41 PM  

49 shots from just one of the frightened cops. In fact, he was so afraid that he climbed on top of a car to fire some of those shots, 'cause, you know, when you think someone is shooting at you and you are afraid, the natural reaction is to abandon your cover and expose yourself on top of a car.

Blogger Giraffe February 14, 2013 2:42 PM  

It was widely accepted that capture was never the intended outcome. This was a hit and whitewash, planned from the beginning. Do doubt.

So if one ever finds ones self on the wrong side of the law, you might as well take it to them. If you won't live to see trial, take some with you. If you aren't entitled to a fair trial, at least you can have an unfair gunfight.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan February 14, 2013 2:50 PM  

"but when the smoky haze -
from the 140 rounds fired in less than 30 seconds - dissipated, it soon became clear that..."

Were the cops shooting black powder rifles?

Anonymous Noah B. February 14, 2013 2:52 PM  

Yep, you called it Daniel.

I doubt that incendiary tear gas was the actual cause of the fire, either. My guess is that something much more overt, like diesel fuel and flares were involved, but we'll probably never know because the criminals are in control of the crime scene. It's also noteworthy that, just like Waco, they used armored vehicles to perforate the building before setting the fire. The additional ventilation allowed the fire to burn much faster and hotter than it otherwise would have.

Anonymous bw February 14, 2013 2:55 PM  

Were the cops shooting black powder rifles? Cryin Ryan

Good catch. The description of firearms related activities are often very high comedy, and completely ignorant, in the media.
They attempt to dramatize it and come off as fools.
The smoky haze was more likely from the community Black n Milds.

Anonymous 11B February 14, 2013 3:01 PM  

Maybe we do need a ban on high capacity magazines, at least for the cops. Or we should emulate Sheriff Taylor who only allowed Deputy Barney Fife to carry one bullet in his shirt pocket in case of emergency. These cops give new meaning to the phrase 'armed and dangerous.'

Anonymous bw February 14, 2013 3:03 PM  

...and people think Holy Wood is just making sh*t up when it comes to cops and how it works.
Much closer to the truth than the average person would want to believe. It is Ritual.

Tom Selleck was set up by dirty cops decades ago, for cryin out loud.

Anonymous Daniel February 14, 2013 3:17 PM  

Those divers suck. They obviously forgot to bring along a back-up pistol in case they lost the original while going into the river. As public employees, they've got to be more accountable than that.

Anonymous Mike43 February 14, 2013 3:21 PM  

140 rounds in 30 seconds? Based on my infantry live fire experiences, that would generate a light haze, for about 30 seconds.

Hyperbole! It's not just for reality tv anymore.

Anonymous Jack Amok February 14, 2013 3:26 PM  

Dead next to Williams in the driver's seat was Timothy Russell, 43. No officers were injured.

But I bet a few are on paid disability leave for emotional stress. Or maybe they strained their backs looking for the gun.

Yeah, I shook my head at the divers in the river part too. Clearly their budget it too damn high if they can afford to send divers on a wild goose chase like that.

Anonymous Porky February 14, 2013 3:37 PM  

FYI it was San Bernardino PD that torched the cabin, not LAPD.

Anonymous Daniel February 14, 2013 3:39 PM  

FYI it was San Bernardino PD that torched the cabin, not LAPD.

Incompetent LAPD. Can't even light a fire without an assist.

Anonymous Stilicho February 14, 2013 3:42 PM  

Also in the front of the car was an empty red Coca-Cola can, two lighters and a charred glass pipe with cocaine residue. Autopsy results showed Russell had alcohol and cocaine in his system, and Williams had marijuana and cocaine in her system.

Crack kills. So does pot.

Anonymous Porky! February 14, 2013 3:44 PM  

Slightly OT, but Drudge has an awesome headline for all the libs saying "nobody is talking about confiscating your guns".

MO Dems Introduce Bill to Confiscate Firearms -- Give Gun Owners 90 Days to Turn in Weapons...

Anonymous Aeoli Pera February 14, 2013 3:48 PM  

"Oh my God, it's coming right at me!"

BLAM

Anonymous Aeoli Pera February 14, 2013 3:50 PM  

Looks like somebody beat me to that joke.

Anonymous Josh February 14, 2013 3:50 PM  

Move along folks, nothing to see here...

Anonymous DT February 14, 2013 3:57 PM  

Vox, you and the Ilk have to see this if you haven't already:

http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/chris-dorner-last-stand-video-game-4chan/

Sorry for no name...s/b cshizzle


Thank you. I needed the laugh.

Blogger jamsco February 14, 2013 4:32 PM  

Here are some police officers being more productive.

"cop frees two deer tangled up by antlers by SHOOTING them apart"

Anonymous Tad February 14, 2013 4:51 PM  

@Vox Day


My favorite part is the way they were so desperate to find a gun in order to try to pin the blame on the corpses that they sent divers into the river, never mind that a gun in the river couldn't have been involved in the parking lot shootout


I think it's telling that You and the rest of your commenters here avoid like the plaque relating the numerous acts of heroism that police officers are responsible for, as though they don't happen and as though you know mentioning them will weaken any message you think mocking police delivers.



Anonymous Alexander February 14, 2013 4:55 PM  

Tad, I think it's telling that you refuse to answer my questions. I recognize I'm still a relative newbie here but can I get a clarification why you have not yet answered my questions, Tad?

So you don't ask for a repeat of questions while I'm not here.

Do you concede the fact that legislators are seeking to confiscate guns, and that the fear of confiscation was a rational fear for gun owners to have had this entire time?

Do you believe such confiscation is acceptable?

Regardless of if you find it personally acceptable, do you believe it to be constitutional.

Answer the questions.

Blogger Giraffe February 14, 2013 5:01 PM  

Shut up Tad.

jamsco just posted a video wherein the officers saved two deer. Unless they were deer hunting.....

Anonymous Anonymous February 14, 2013 5:13 PM  

Incidents like this indicate why DHS amassed such a huge stockpile of ammo. In the future, all suspects will receive 70 rounds apiece.

MALTHUS

Anonymous 11B February 14, 2013 5:13 PM  

I think it's telling that You and the rest of your commenters here avoid like the plaque relating the numerous acts of heroism that police officers are responsible for, as though they don't happen and as though you know mentioning them will weaken any message you think mocking police delivers.

First, I think you are playing your devil's advocate role. As a lefty I can't imagine you actually have much respect for the police. Most lefties I know believe the police are institutionally racist, and the fawning that LAPD shooter has gotten seems to confirm this.

But what I do find interesting is that those of us on the right, who normally would be the ones to back the police, are no longer doing so. This probably does not bode well. Even if you are a police supporter, I bet most in your camp are not, especially your more vibrant members. So if the right starts to abandon the cops too, that's probably not going to turn out well for the cops, or us.

Anonymous Cleve February 14, 2013 5:14 PM  

@Tad

That 'cops do some good stuff so they should get free reign' argument is the same structure as the 'science will kill us all but does some good stuff' argument Vox annihilates in the Irrational Atheist.

If cops are becoming more corrupt and kills lots of people, who cares what good they do?

Anonymous Dan in Tx February 14, 2013 5:39 PM  

Tad: "I think it's telling that You and the rest of your commenters here avoid like the plaque relating the numerous acts of heroism that police officers are responsible for..."

And this has exactly what to do with this story? Or in the interest of fairness is Vox now required to post a "hero cop of the day" story every time he posts one on the latest police lunacy?

Anonymous Difster February 14, 2013 5:40 PM  

Tad,

Did you know in Mexico, the cartels build schools and hospitals and employ lots of people in their pot fields? It does not change the fact that the cartels are packed full of remorseless killers. But the cartels are still the bad guys right? Yes, just like cops. Some good deeds and heroism are not enough to account for all the innocent lives cops destroy.

Anonymous Unending Improvement February 14, 2013 5:42 PM  

"I think it's telling that You and the rest of your commenters here avoid like the plaque relating the numerous acts of heroism that police officers are responsible for, as though they don't happen and as though you know mentioning them will weaken any message you think mocking police delivers. "

Wow what a disingenuous fool you are. Lot's of German soldiers carried out acts of incredible bravery. Most German soldiers didn't kill civilians.

Yet what praise could you possible have for the Wehrmacht.

Shut up Tad.

Anonymous Imatiger February 14, 2013 5:43 PM  

Obviously Cleveland fucked this up bad. But it is not an indictment of all individual cops. Some systems are bad, like LAPD, Cleveland. But I have worked with a lot of cops in systems that, for the most part, work. When they don't work, they should be disciplined and prosecuted. At least there is some sort of public recourse in Cleveland, which I would not feel assured would happen if the police force was privatized.

Anonymous Mystery Man February 14, 2013 5:50 PM  

Now, now, everyone. You have to understand: Tad's notion of a police officer is this guy.

Anonymous Unending Improvement February 14, 2013 5:52 PM  

If the Wehrmacht example is too "Godwin's Law", just replace it with some other conquering group, perhaps the Kaiserliches Heer or the Grand Armee.

Anonymous Imatiger February 14, 2013 5:53 PM  

Really, Unending Improvement? The best you could do is Godwin's Law? Even Tad deserves better than that.

Anonymous Unending Improvement February 14, 2013 5:54 PM  

Oh dear, let's worry about a damn irrelevancy. Are you an Aspie?

Anonymous Unending Improvement February 14, 2013 5:56 PM  

Anyways, at least the Old Left was hostile to "the man". The New Left as exemplified by Tad worships everything done by the state.

Anonymous Imatiger February 14, 2013 5:57 PM  

A small poisonous snake? Nope. Look at my name. You'll figure it out.

Blogger Giraffe February 14, 2013 5:58 PM  

When they don't work, they should be disciplined and prosecuted.

I agree with you there. I wonder how many LAPD cops will be disciplined or fired for shooting up the wrong cars.

Or for trying to murder Dorner. [shooting back at him was justified. Burning him out was not.]

Anonymous Daniel February 14, 2013 5:59 PM  

Oh really? Companies don't get blasted and corrected (and subsequently acquiesce to demands or suffer bans on their practices) by public non-customers all the time?

Okay. As long as you are assured that bad cops are weeded out almost everywhere because their income is from forced anonymous payments rather than volunteer, I guess that makes sense.

Next time you get pulled over, remind a cop that he works for you, and really ought to let you off with a warning.

Anonymous George of the Hole February 14, 2013 6:00 PM  

Tad's not very bright. He puts his wee-wee in people's poopers.

Anonymous Unending Improvement February 14, 2013 6:02 PM  

"A small poisonous snake? Nope. Look at my name. You'll figure it out."

It's a good deflection.

Anyways I picked out the most extreme example I could think of as a rhetorical exercise, as I said above you can replace it with a much more mild yet still reprehensible example and it still holds.

Anonymous allyn71 February 14, 2013 6:07 PM  

I disagree George of the Hole.

It is self-evident that Tad is a catcher and not a pitcher.

Anonymous Imatiger February 14, 2013 6:10 PM  

Daniel. Put up the strawmans, and whack them down.

No, I am more assured by the fact that there are prosecutors, paid for by the public, that are investigating Cleveland, as well as the Ohio Bureau of Investigators. Where the money comes from isn't what is reassuring, and I never said so. It's the fact that there is a system of institutionalized legally recognized checks on the police. Now, it does turn out that those checks can and do fail. And that's a separate problem to be addressed.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Including being born a United States citizen.

Anonymous Mystery Man February 14, 2013 6:10 PM  

A small poisonous snake? Nope. Look at my name. You'll figure it out.

Yes, but how does one imatige? Is this something new?

Anonymous Imatiger February 14, 2013 6:14 PM  

Unending Improvement, I am not familiar with the acronym you seemed to be asking about. I'd like to think I'm more than a few letters. If you want to use a Nazi metaphor go ahead, I just don't think it propels the discussion forward. In fact, I don't really see the need for metaphor period. Tad made a poor argument.

Anonymous Daniel February 14, 2013 6:16 PM  

So, Imatiger, are you suggesting that prosecutors don't have the power to investigate private police forces?

Strawmen aren't as easy to knock over as unexamined notions.

Anonymous Noah B. February 14, 2013 6:26 PM  

Most of those brave, good cops cover up for the bad ones, which tells you everything you need to know. See the BART shooting a few years ago. After the cop drew his pistol and shot the man who was handcuffed on the floor, what was the immediate reactions of his buddies?

Arrest him? Render aid to his victim?

No -- without hesitation, they began confiscating cell phones with cameras from train passengers nearby. A reaction like that simply isn't possible without pervasive corruption in a department. Their actions to cover up were so thoroughly ingrained they may as well have been instinctive.

Not one of them is in jail today.

Anonymous kh123 February 14, 2013 6:33 PM  

Their tempers and aim are increasing. As well as their Central/South American last names.

Anonymous Noah B. February 14, 2013 6:38 PM  

"It's the fact that there is a system of institutionalized legally recognized checks on the police."

To phrase this differently, there are a bunch of words written down that virtually no one pays attention to, and this fact gives you assurance.

"Now, it does turn out that those checks can and do fail. And that's a separate problem to be addressed."

So there are imaginary checks in place, but the fact that they don't work isn't relevant at all. Got it.

Anonymous kh123 February 14, 2013 6:48 PM  

"I think it's telling that You and the rest of your commenters here avoid like the plaque relating the numerous acts of heroism that police officers are responsible for, as though they don't happen and as though you know mentioning them will..."

Says the homosexual Jew Jacke about uniformed protection squads enforcing State laws.

The irony, it burns.

Anonymous civilServant February 14, 2013 7:30 PM  

Next time you get pulled over, remind a cop that he works for you, and really ought to let you off with a warning.

Attitude is everything. If you should know why he pulls you over but say, "No" when he asks if you know why then he will issue the ticket. If you are hostile then he will issue the ticket. If you are very hostile then be advised that he may issue multiple tickets. If you are civil and without argument acknowledge why you are pulled over then a simple "warn and advise" or a reduced ticket ("75mph" instead of "90mph") is likely.

Anonymous civilServant February 14, 2013 7:36 PM  

See the BART shooting a few years ago.

Here.

Anonymous WaterBoy February 14, 2013 7:39 PM  

civilServant: "If you are civil and without argument acknowledge why you are pulled over then a simple "warn and advise" or a reduced ticket ("75mph" instead of "90mph") is likely."

Or he will write down your exact words on the back of the ticket he gives you anyway, to prove that you admitted your guilt should you decide to fight it in court.

Also just as likely.

Anonymous Unending Improvement February 14, 2013 7:43 PM  

I see Imatiger is more interested in questioning my choice of examples than my argument.

Anonymous Noah B. February 14, 2013 7:45 PM  

"Attitude is everything."

You are so full of shit. In a speed trap, if they pick you to pull over, they are almost certainly going to write you a ticket unless you have some kind of emergency situation. The last ticket I got was for doing 74 in a 70, and the 75 mph signs went up two weeks later. Clearly it's just another tax. And any decent attorney will tell you that admitting guilt is usually a dumb thing to do.

Anonymous Unending Improvement February 14, 2013 7:45 PM  

"If you are civil and without argument acknowledge why you are pulled over then a simple "warn and advise" or a reduced ticket ("75mph" instead of "90mph") is likely."

Unless you are black or hispanic. Then don't even bother. And if he gives you the ticket anyways, good luck fighting it in court.

Anonymous realmatt February 14, 2013 7:53 PM  

Cops don't work for us. They work for people that take our money by force. I wouldn't hire these bozos to mow my lawn.

Anonymous WaterBoy February 14, 2013 8:08 PM  

Unending Improvement: "And if he gives you the ticket anyways, good luck fighting it in court.

Oh no, around here you always want to go to court. If you just pay the ticket, you pay the entire fine and get the full amount of points plus the actual violation entered onto your DMV record, which will cause your insurance company to raise your rates.

But if you go to court and pay the court appearance fee, the DA will lower the charge to something inimicable like a busted headlight ("faulty equipment"), which will not only lower the number of points against your license, but will not be cause for your insurance rates to go up. Of course, you still have to pay the entire amount of the original fine, but $20 to save $200 is reason enough to take the morning off work.

Which only goes to prove that the whole thing is a scam to make money -- they've even gone so far now as to offer the plea deal by mail so you don't even have to physically go into court if you don't want to (but you still pay the court fee, of course).

Anonymous WaterBoy February 14, 2013 8:15 PM  

Geez, what a brain fart. inimicable = innocuous.

Anonymous Godfrey February 14, 2013 8:17 PM  

Blacks were always disliked cops. Now the rest of us know why.

The elites in the country always start with the blacks first. If you want to know where you’re going to be in twenty years or so, just look at blacks today.

That would mean in twenty years most people will be hopelessly dependent on the government, 79% of children will be born out-of-wedlock, a large portion of the youth population will be in prison and the crime rate will be huge.

Anonymous FP February 14, 2013 8:22 PM  

CA cop says guns are not for defense... they're to intimidate. Money shot is about 1.30min in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYmDEIH4H3A

Anonymous bw February 14, 2013 8:25 PM  

the whole thing is a scam to make money

Yep. Statist parasites. Working for themselves only, never for you.
Feeding that damaged and deranged psyche as well. Power.
It's transparent.

Anonymous WaterBoy February 14, 2013 8:30 PM  

Imatiger: "When they don't work, they should be disciplined and prosecuted....Now, it does turn out that those checks can and do fail. And that's a separate problem to be addressed."

But not by the police. In a case where the investigating officers clearly lied, they received neither discipline nor prosecution.

I would also argue that this kind of thing happens more frequently than either you or Tad are willing to admit.

Anonymous 11B February 14, 2013 8:38 PM  

OT, but it appears our intrepid GOP Senators are mounting a heroic filibuster. Against amnesty, you ask? No, it is for an issue much more pressing to our national security interests than any threat posed by a massive demographic change could render.

Anonymous WaterBoy February 14, 2013 8:47 PM  

Yet another criminal safely off the streets because the police "thought he was armed".

Thank you for your heroic actions in shooting him in the back, officers. Our cars are safer, now.

Anonymous kh123 February 14, 2013 8:55 PM  

[On the OT:

Brilliant; you not only have senators demanding to read/research on something or someone before voting, but also senior GOP first scoffing at this request and then flip-flopping on it towards a hard stance for. Selective diligence and waffling, covered in a delicious high-fiber coating of elephant and mule dung. Start your day off right with Kellogg's Capitol Flakes.]

Anonymous Imatiger February 14, 2013 9:05 PM  

Noah B., you've done an excellent job making arguments that I am not.

Daniel you make an interesting point about prosecutorial power over private police forces. I am not a lawyer. I don't know if prosecutors would be able to, for example, prosecute forces that crossed over jurisdictional lines. You have gotten me to examine my assumptions. You didn't need to make the strawmen though, you could've just asked this question to start, and it didn't make your argument stronger.

What I fear is a Blackwater like situation, where private police forces are somehow allowed to commit crimes without oversight, because of special protections and/or less oversight because people want to protect the privacy of a private company.

Anonymous WaterBoy February 14, 2013 9:15 PM  

Tad: "I think it's telling that You and the rest of your commenters here avoid like the plaque relating the numerous acts of heroism that police officers are responsible for, as though they don't happen and as though you know mentioning them will weaken any message you think mocking police delivers."

When you're talking to an automobile mechanic about a problem with the engine, it's generally fruitless to mention how wonderful the tires are....

Anonymous Unending Improvement February 14, 2013 9:19 PM  

"What I fear is a Blackwater like situation, where private police forces are somehow allowed to commit crimes without oversight, because of special protections and/or less oversight because people want to protect the privacy of a private company."

Normally I don't try to speak for others, but you're attacking a claim no one bothered to make to the best of my knowledge.

It's kind of a bit odd that we are here attacking the Police for acting outside of oversight, all the while you're here insisting 'But guys, watch out for Blackwater!". In that case at least there would be public outcry to bring these guys under control, and at least one party would be in the lead on that. The Democrats and Republicans will defend the police to no end, but the Democrats hypothetically would love nothing better than to raise a stink about a hypothetical "Private Police Force" running around.

Anonymous civilServant February 14, 2013 9:31 PM  

The last ticket I got was for doing 74 in a 70, and the 75 mph signs went up two weeks later. Clearly it's just another tax.

Is it a tax if it may be avoided by driving 70?

Anonymous dh February 14, 2013 9:33 PM  

But if you go to court and pay the court appearance fee, the DA will lower the charge to something inimicable like a busted headlight ("faulty equipment"), which will not only lower the number of points against your license, but will not be cause for your insurance rates to go up. Of course, you still have to pay the entire amount of the original fine, but $20 to save $200 is reason enough to take the morning off work.

This is why, if your state allows it, you fight 100%, no matter the cost. I implemented this policy several years ago and have a lot of fun with it, and learned alot about courts and the legal system.

Every ticket, every fine, every time. Fight all the way. On your initial court date/time, show up, and if they have the option, file the form for a jury trial.

When the date comes, show up, and fight the DA's request for a continuance. If you have a witness, or even if you don't protest that asking them to come back is denial of a fair and speedy trial.

Push, push, push. Always.

After about half-a-dozen tickets, I've not paid any of them except hte first one, when I was still formulate my policy. And now the local cops know that if they give me a ticket, they will almost certainly end up losing a day off waiting in court, for a trial that will never happen.

Anonymous Shutup, Tad February 14, 2013 9:33 PM  

Tad says: I think it's telling that You and the rest of your commenters here avoid like the plaque relating the numerous acts of heroism that police officers are responsible for,

More evidence that English is a second language for Our Tad. I don't know about you Tad old boy, but my dental professional says plaque is BAD!.

They want it removed as soon as possible.

Maybe you should just shut up, Tad.

Anonymous Alexander February 14, 2013 9:34 PM  

Is income tax a tax if it can be avoided by earning less?

Is a tax on gasoline a tax if it can be avoided by not driving?

Is a tax on... you get it.

Is there any issue whatsoever where you won't carry water for the government?

Anonymous WaterBoy February 14, 2013 9:44 PM  

dh: "This is why, if your state allows it, you fight 100%, no matter the cost."

A commendable strategy, but each system has a varying ROI. In our system, you have to pay a fee -- in advance -- to even request a trial, in addition to the initial appearance fee. And it may be that such fee is returned if you never actually make it to trial; I don't know, since I've not yet pursued it that far.

But even the first court appearance beyond the initial one which results in a lower charge will cost me more in the value of my time than the original fine would, since I've already realised the insurance cost saving. And the lowered points mean nothing, since I never get enough of them in the given period of time to get close to the max (though the original, higher points would).

Maybe when I retire it would then be worth it to try.

Anonymous Noah B. February 14, 2013 9:49 PM  

"Is it a tax if it may be avoided by driving 70?"

Yes.

Blogger mmaier2112 February 14, 2013 10:05 PM  

A former friend of mine likes to tell a story about his dad, a rookie cop. Who went along with a veteran pig and went into a black bar and said "We're looking for Black Dude #1" and had a guy tell him "Pig, get the fuck out of here".

Pig shot that man dead on the spot and said "Where is he?"

Friend USED to tell that story like he was proud of the Pig.

Now, after being on the wrong end of police attention, he doesn't talk like that anymore.

Now he talks about how much bullshit it is that police don't know the law on CCW. Now he talks about how it's bullshit that a Pig interrogated him about "brandishing a firearm" when he accidentally bent over and exposed his IWB holstered-weapon.

Funny... how being on the wrong end of police attention focuses the mind.

Blogger mmaier2112 February 14, 2013 10:05 PM  

sorry, "liked", not "likes"

Anonymous JI February 14, 2013 10:31 PM  

In the good old days, the cops would've just planted a gun on the victims. What the heck is wrong with cops these days? Don't they even know the fundamental rule of government work - if you screw up, pin the blame on someone else??? I'm sure cops in Chicago or LA would know this much!

Anonymous kh123 February 14, 2013 10:35 PM  

"Is it a tax if it may be avoided by..."

Nothing a round-up of publicans and a large bonfire won't cure. Consider it a deferment on the annual pound of flesh for Leviathan.

Anonymous kh123 February 14, 2013 10:40 PM  

...Continuing on that line of thought:

You're a f*cking knob, civil servant.

Now, is it an insult if it may be avoided by simply keeping one's peace?

Anonymous The other skeptic February 14, 2013 10:58 PM  

Claims that Pope Benedict resigned to avoid all sorts of things

How is it that that site has nothing about Rabbis and their undesirable behaviors.

Anonymous The other skeptic February 14, 2013 11:09 PM  

Open Racism in Colorado Public Schools

Blogger Kentucky Packrat February 14, 2013 11:16 PM  

The US had a long tradition of private prosecution, and Virginia still allows it. Some other states allow private presentation to the grand jury.

All states should move immediately to allow private prosecution, and groups like the ACLU and victims groups should band together to systematically prosecute every one of these incidents.

Anonymous The other skeptic February 15, 2013 12:08 AM  

<a href="http://bookos.org/book/1076520>Worth reading</a> to get an appreciation for RPG 7s.

Anonymous p-dawg February 15, 2013 1:20 AM  

@Civil Servant: Any tax may be avoided. Does that mean there is no such thing as a tax? For example, sales tax may be avoided by not purchasing anything from any commercial business. Does that mean sales tax is not a tax? Income tax may be avoided by the simple action of not having income. Does that mean income tax is not a tax? Capital gains taxes may be avoided by spending your money instead of investing it. And on, and on.

Anonymous p-dawg February 15, 2013 1:21 AM  

Sorry Alexander et al. That's what I get for not finishing the thread before posting.

Anonymous Mr. Pea February 15, 2013 1:24 AM  

Tad, even feces packers can perform heroic deeds. But at the end of the day... they are still feces packers.

Anonymous Outlaw X February 15, 2013 2:51 AM  

@Tad (Vox's little gay nephew)

I think it's telling that You and the rest of your commenters here avoid like the plaque relating the numerous acts of heroism that police officers are responsible for, as though they don't happen and as though you know mentioning them will weaken any message you think mocking police delivers.

I have commented positively about police and worked closely with them in apprehending escaped violent prisoners twice; deputized, and we never fired a shot. So you are still a lying little fuck.

Anonymous Big Sky February 15, 2013 3:01 AM  


Is it a tax if it may be avoided by driving 70? CivilDickweed

And the very purpose of the "law" is what, again?
"For your own good?"
You are a lying piece of parasitic shit. Montana proves that.
Your intellectual, scientific argument ... is what, again?

Anonymous AdognamedOp February 15, 2013 3:43 AM  

Another one for the pork files.

Yesterday a grand jury acquitted a NYC detective who murdered Noel Polanco, a National Guardsman, in a road rage incident.
Hassan Hamdy claimed he "feared for his life" when he ran up to the car and pumped a bullet into Polancos gut.
Hamdy and his gang were in an unmarked van returning from a executing a narc raid warrant when Polanco supposedly cut them off. According to passengers in Polanco's car, the baconwagon drove alongside his car, cursed at him and tried to "drive him into the divider."
After they killed Polanco they told the passengers “Your friend shot himself.”

Killer, Hassan Hamdy- who looks nothing like his name- has a History of misconduct and was sued in 2007 and 2009, costing the "city' (taxpayers,..me..!) 235,000 dollars.

The ruling comes at a bad time (Thx, Rambo noob Dorner). Cant find a single article on the acquittal. Heard about it on a radio news blurb.
The local media spent half their broadcast talking about some idiots on a crippled Carnival cruise ship.
No mention of this injustice.
Insanity.

ps, Earth to asteroid DA14,.. passing by today..,please make Earth your post valentines day bitch. Thx.

Anonymous TGR White February 15, 2013 4:47 AM  

"True. But one of the officers had reported them pointing a gun out the window during the chase. [Probably giving the finger]. At least if they had found a gun, they'd have had a poor excuse for being so jumpy."

Who says the cops even chased down the right car? After the LAPD proved that they couldn't tell the difference between hulking black men and little old Asian ladies I door wonder....

@ VD: Is Tad your sock pocket troll?

Anonymous Stilicho February 15, 2013 5:27 AM  

Now, it does turn out that those checks can and do fail. And that's a separate problem to be addressed.

Hmmm...haven't had the right people in charge?

Blogger Giraffe February 15, 2013 3:51 PM  

More cops behaving badly:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2268908/Bridgeport-Police-Department-Connecticut-cops-leave-caught-kicking-stomping-man.html#ixzz2L02AcLJ8

Anonymous Geoff February 16, 2013 12:38 PM  

Best thing you can do to avoid cops shooting you out of fear:

- don't go out in public more often than you have to
- If you do have to go out, always drive a Lexus or Mercedes so u seem important
- Have a decal on your car that looks like you're a cop or you donate to the PBA
- Wear a suit and look/act important without being an ahole if pulled over
- Be white or asian

Anonymous civilServant February 18, 2013 2:06 PM  

Is a tax on gasoline a tax if it can be avoided by not driving?

Is driving 70 equivilant to not driving?

Is it a tax if it may be avoided by driving 70?

Yes.


I appreciate your straight-forward answer. But I would suggest it is guided by ideology rather than any reasonable real-world practice. This is not to say that no jurisdictions view traffic fines as a source of revenue or that no officers have ticket quotas based on fines. These situations occur. But the answer is to drive the speed limit or else not complain when caught driving faster. To those who disagree with this: should government set and enforce speed limits or should vehicle operation be left to the discretion of Most People?

You're a f*cking knob, civil servant.

I said earlier that so much of libertarianism boils down to nothing more than drugs and traffic tickets. While true in practice it is slightly off the mark philosophically. Perhaps more accurately what it boils down to in the end is, "How dare you touch me!"

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