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Tuesday, March 05, 2013

Intergenerational war

As if the younger generations don't already have a strong casus belli given the debt with which their great-grandparents and grandparents have saddled them, Karl Denninger points out yet another reason today's children will have just cause to hate their parents:
We all have the right to consent to our data being used and even sold in exchange for something.  Today you consent to a lot of that, even though you may not be paying attention to your granting of that consent.

But children are not of age.  They thus cannot consent.  And it is a long-standing principle that a bargain must include something of at least putative value to both parties as consideration, or it's no contract at all.

There is no benefit to the kids in this paradigm -- only costs that are intentionally hidden from them but which, mark my words, will screw them in the future.

Mark this post and wait 10 years. 

Those kids who are being "tracked" now will find that they've been violated repeatedly by this data collection and sharing.

If your state is involved in this, and there are a lot that are, you need to get every last one of your state legislators out of office and all of the local school board members must be instantly ejected and shunned to the point of literal starvation.

If you're in a state that is not participating, make damn sure they don't now or in the future.

If you're a parent and don't do those two things then prepare for your kids to throw you into the wood chipper feet-first when they figure out how badly you allowed them to be screwed.

I utterly guarantee that you will deserve it.
On a related note, don't put pictures of your kids on Facebook or Instagram.  It's stupid.  It's obnoxious.  It's thoughtless and self-centered.  And it's their life, not yours, that you're putting on public display.

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49 Comments:

Anonymous JartStar March 05, 2013 9:39 AM  

And it's their life, not yours, that you're putting on public display.

So I assume that you do not speak or write of your kid's lives in any public forum in any way shape or form since it is their life, not yours?

Anonymous VryeDenker March 05, 2013 9:43 AM  

So I assume that you do not speak or write of your kid's lives in any public forum in any way shape or form since it is their life, not yours?

I know "Ender" is a soccer player. That's not much considering I've been reading this blog since 2008.

Anonymous Daniel March 05, 2013 9:45 AM  

Worse, don't you put pictures of my kids on facebook and ID them, especially when I've told you not to.

Don't send them to college, either. University of Iowa turns over the GPA, discipline history, marital status and other info to the Sherriff's dept. and matches it with gun registration records.

You know. For fun and best interests and whatnot.

Anonymous szook March 05, 2013 9:47 AM  

@VryeDenker,

Ender is also a published author....but I have been hanging around here longer than you.....

Anonymous DrTorch March 05, 2013 9:48 AM  

" I hope you know this will go down on your permanent record"

Anonymous Lysander Spooner March 05, 2013 9:51 AM  

Facebook is a narcissistic sewer, you are quite right about it.

Blogger tz March 05, 2013 9:52 AM  

Karl doesn't homeschool. I'm still not sure why.

Children need to be protected from predators, but they are not the same ones as our parents needed to worry about. But they are even more seductive and dangerous.

It is almost impossible to delete something from the internet - whether it is accurate or not. And you have no control on how something will be used once it is out there.

Anonymous Lex Rex March 05, 2013 9:54 AM  

Reason #687 for Why my kids will be homeschooled.

Anonymous Hmmm March 05, 2013 9:55 AM  

So how do we know which states and school districts do this?

Anonymous Yech March 05, 2013 10:01 AM  

After reading the story in the Mercury News, I am totally creeped out.

Anonymous JartStar March 05, 2013 10:01 AM  

Worse, don't you put pictures of my kids on facebook and ID them, especially when I've told you not to.

This nearly impossible to control unless your family is an actual clan of hermits as kids sports teams, church youth groups, friends, distant relatives, everyone simply ignores your wishes and posts them anyways. For instance you go out to eat with friends and someone snaps a pic of everyone at the table, posts the pic before the end of dinner with identities, and you may not know until hours or days later.

Anonymous Josh March 05, 2013 10:15 AM  

Karl doesn't homeschool. I'm still not sure why.

Same reason he thinks there should be a Fed. He still believes in the system, and that the system can work, as long as the right people are in charge.

Anonymous YIH March 05, 2013 10:16 AM  

@VryeDenker:
I know 'Ender' is Vox's son and likes to play chess now and then and that's about it. Fine by me, the only folks Vox has named here is himself (obviously) and his father (due to him, um, being in the news a few years ago).
Myself I've always been very leery of giving out personal data. My email addresses and Blogger profile (which I don't use here) don't have any accurate info on me. I refuse to use my actual name and have never posted a photo of myself anywhere on the 'net.
As to my location, in FL two miles east of I-95, about as accurate as Vox saying he's in Italy.
That said I have to admit I was somewhat surprised by this, apparently schools aren't held to the same privacy standards as doctors, attorneys and clergy. And yet educators like to say they are professionals as well.

Blogger Giraffe March 05, 2013 10:18 AM  

Especially annoying are people who use pictures of their kids as a profile picture. Too chicken to show yourself, so you put your kids up.

Anonymous Anonymous March 05, 2013 10:21 AM  

I know I am using a techical device right now and use it to keep up with news and such. I have no TV but we use the internet to watch movies, my justification is at least I can monitor the thing.

But ya' know, I just wish the Bill Gates and other computer world nerds would just stop coming up with the next great tech thingy, the next great computer application. It just gets worser and worser as far as how baddies and gov't intrusionists can use this stuff against us - and our kids. Please stop for dang sakes, find another outlet for your curiosity and quit feeding the monsters. Technology is great but I fear it will be our undoing in the end.

I homeschool, my kids have never and will never be inside these awful prisons of gov't intervention and intrusion called "public schools". If I die or get carted off for my beliefs they can continue to learn.

Alabamarob

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus March 05, 2013 10:22 AM  

OT - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323884304578328271526080496.html

The Tyranny of the Queen Bee - Women in business using their power to keep other women from succeeding. LOL

Anonymous mjb March 05, 2013 10:30 AM  

Though I've enabled my privacy settings to the highest levels, you have me thinking, Vox. I have uploaded pics of my children, and many friends have done the same tagging myself in those photos.

I guess I can just move them to my google drive or somewhere that is hopefully more secure. I don't know, I'll have to think about it, because I never thought of myself as being self centered when uploading them, but just a convenient way of showing the collective family members and friends what they're up to.

Anonymous Jimmy March 05, 2013 10:41 AM  

It's weird to hear the scolding of parents in this post when the worst abuses were caused by kids who have their own Facebook accounts, phones for texting, and computers for uploading Youtube videos. Parents are not as tech savvy as kids, but kids are not often aware of the implications of technology, neither are parents.

I am resolved that my daughter will not have her own computer and Facebook accounts until they are old enough to know what they are doing. Her phone will be simple functional phones that cannot take photos or texting, but who are we kidding. I am sure kids will learn how to get around the restrictions.

Anonymous Daniel March 05, 2013 10:45 AM  

For instance you go out to eat with friends and someone snaps a pic of everyone at the table, posts the pic before the end of dinner with identities, and you may not know until hours or days later.

I know this all too well. In fact, the likely topic of discussion at that table will be isn't it scary that some loner is running around with an air rifle assassinating traffic cameras...

All while everyone is gleefully uploading each other's kids onto facebook.

Abide and fade. Hide in plain sight. Those are the best tactics I've found.

Blogger James Higham March 05, 2013 11:06 AM  

Perhaps they won't be around by the time they grow up. Biblical indications maybe.

Anonymous Will Best March 05, 2013 11:07 AM  

Its hard to get worked up over this what with the public schools already being a 12 year indoctrination program. I doubt they really need to collect that much data on you to know how good of a grunt you will be.

And everybody is being tracked involuntarily by traffic camera, drone, and satellite anyway. Your cellphone can be turned into a bug, etc.

They already have enough data to win elections by manipulating what they know about you. So its really hard to gather how much more harm they can cause you that they aren't doing already.

http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/508836/how-obama-used-big-data-to-rally-voters-part-1/

I know their ultimate goal is the destruction of the middle class but they don't need individual data to doe that.

Anonymous VD March 05, 2013 11:09 AM  

I assume that you do not speak or write of your kid's lives in any public forum in any way shape or form since it is their life, not yours?

The only reason people have even heard of Ender is because he was in the international news due to his book. And in some 12,000 posts, virtually none of them even mention him.

Anonymous Josh March 05, 2013 11:21 AM  

Besides, Vox's post specifically called posting pictures of your kids on the internet obnoxious. Not writing about their athletic or gaming exploits.

If people can't grasp that there is a significant difference between photographic cataloging of your kids' lives and the occasional blog post that says "so and so did this today," I weep for the future. Unless it's a stupid attempt to ankle bite and declare Vox a hypocrite.

Hell, he's probably posted about his late dog more than ender. Someone get PETA on the phone, the dog was incapable of giving consent!

Blogger Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus March 05, 2013 11:23 AM  

The only reason people have even heard of Ender is because he was in the international news due to his book.

That, and saving humanity from the bugs.

Anonymous Susan March 05, 2013 11:29 AM  

Does that 12,000 number refer to the posts you did before his book came out? Just trying to be clear here. I can remember at least 2 mentions of Ender. One where he got in trouble with you because of his attitude during a soccer match, and the one still on the blog here where you mention his capability to kick a ball 20 yards when he was eight.

I am not trying to be disrespectful toward you or your family here, but when you make a claim like this, as a long time reader/lurker, I have to ask for clarity.

Blogger jamsco March 05, 2013 11:30 AM  

"On a related note, don't put pictures of your kids on Facebook or Instagram. It's stupid. It's obnoxious. It's thoughtless and self-centered."

Well, just for the record, Vox, 95% (99? 99.9?) percent of what goes on on Facebook is self-centered. I imagine that's why you don't spent much time there.

But haven't you stated that much of what you put on this blog is obnoxious, thoughtless and self-centered?

So I guess that's only three of four.

Blogger jamsco March 05, 2013 11:39 AM  

"Does that 12,000 number refer to the posts you did before his book came out? Just trying to be clear here. I can remember at least 2 mentions of Ender."

Please note that he said "virtually none". Which is true even if he's made 20 posts about Ender.

Anonymous Matt March 05, 2013 11:49 AM  

None of the Ender mentions, as far as I know, include personally identifiable information.

Anonymous JartStar March 05, 2013 11:56 AM  

And in some 12,000 posts, virtually none of them even mention him.

I do realize there's a difference between what you are doing and the average soccer mom spamming FB with pictures of her kids, but clearly you are violating "it's their life, not yours" rule however small.

If SB avoids the temptation of posting pictures and mentioning the children in any social media then good on her. I find that moms generally like people commenting on their children and like commenting on other people's children and social media makes it very easy.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan March 05, 2013 12:03 PM  

I feel for the kids who will spend their lives knowing there are pictures out there of them ...

1) puking
2) masterbating
3) screwing
4) passed out with pants down
5) skateboarding & landing on their nuts
6) spewing out their poorly thought-out and innermost fears and issues
7) and worse things

It used to be we could share a couple of pictures with kids or parents along with a letter or card, which they would be happy to receive.

Now there is virtually nothing I could send a kid or grandkid that could possibly get his attention, except a thick stack of c notes.

And even then, there would be no acknowledgement.

When we see them now, they tend to avoid eye contact, as they are doing at least 2 other things at all times.

It's sad.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan March 05, 2013 12:07 PM  

Oops. Sorry for the double post but I didn't even address the issue of kids having another reason to hold a grudge...

I guess my question would be..."How would a parent know if his kid held a grudge?" Would there be more or less communication? More than zero, I mean.

Maybe if we can screw them over a little bit more, they will talk to us, even if it's just to express outrage.

Anonymous Chromoly Man March 05, 2013 12:10 PM  

"On a related note, don't put pictures of your kids on Facebook or Instagram. It's stupid. It's obnoxious. It's thoughtless and self-centered. And it's their life, not yours, that you're putting on public display."

This is terrifically good advice.

Also...

Don't press and guilt your friends into getting snapped and put online. If someone doesn't want to do it, that does not mean everyone has to pile on to them until they agree; it means they are wisely exercising their right to manage their personal information.

Anonymous VD March 05, 2013 12:25 PM  

But haven't you stated that much of what you put on this blog is obnoxious, thoughtless and self-centered?

No.

I do realize there's a difference between what you are doing and the average soccer mom spamming FB with pictures of her kids, but clearly you are violating "it's their life, not yours" rule however small.

No. Nothing I've done will infringe upon his right to live his life in privacy.

Anonymous Stingray March 05, 2013 12:25 PM  

Since Denninger first posted this article he has added in this little gem of information.

A suspension that will go into this kids record forever and is now potentially entered into an enormous data base. Lovely.

Blogger Beefy Levinson March 05, 2013 12:50 PM  

Chicks post pictures of themselves and their children on Facebook because they're fishing for compliments. Haven't you noticed that it's always other women who post comments like, "You look soooo hot" or "aww, little Skylar is so cute?" Men, don't take the bait.

Occasionally, when a girl posts a picture of herself I'll comment with "Damn." They can interpret that however they please.

Blogger ajw308 March 05, 2013 12:56 PM  

Stingray,
What will hurt him is the fact that he participated in an act of violence that involved a gun.

That little snippet of truth with no background will keep him unemployed and out of college if any bureaucrat with a zero tolerance policy sees it.

Anonymous rycamor March 05, 2013 1:34 PM  

Government idiots never seem to understand that altering behavior on their end results in altered incentives on the other end. As drug laws create the market for insanely profitable dealer networks, so the modern tracking databases leads to a brisk market for hackers willing to craft alternate identities for a price.

Anonymous Anonymous March 05, 2013 2:16 PM  

I know the older moms are looking for compliments for how wonderful they are doing in older life and how beautiful their family is. But I see that the younger crowd are just plain narcissistic and only talk and post of themselves. We are in for quite a shock when they get older and we see adults - moms, dads, uncles, grandparents who only care for themselves and believe we too should think they are so wonderful and compliment them on their ....whatever. It makes me sad to think howmuch more disconnected families, friends and communities and churches will be if this keeps up.

Alabamarob

Anonymous BJ Sandoval March 05, 2013 2:21 PM  

Vox, I guess this isn’t that off topic since the subject is internet privacy, but can you shed some light on who The Write Agenda is?   They (he?) seems to have been universally and thoroughly exposed as a vindictive and obsessive cyberstalker (and worse, possibly as a vindictive and frustrated con artist), and yet they (he?) very much supports you for SFWA President.  As a fan of yours, I have to ask.

Anonymous civilServant March 05, 2013 3:20 PM  

"... all of the local school board members must be instantly ejected and shunned to the point of literal starvation ... throw you into the wood chipper feet-first ...."

To be fair it must be observed that there are any number of people who want this and more to happen to any number of group X for any or no reason Y. When the chaos comes and those of you who eagerly anticipate your own freedom to act finally have the chance to live your dreams remember that everyone else around you will also be free to act and live their dreams.

Blogger JDC March 05, 2013 3:52 PM  

I endure facebook because it's the only way my family will communicate. I have a few friends. What do I see? 40+ gals with endless pics of them going out for lunch, or at such and such bar (always done to showcase their new tits or new found freedoms).

And people showcasing their children...first day of school, new costume, school picture...it reminds me of how Cathy Lee used to (and probably still does) whore out her own children incessantly for attention and affirmation. Facebook must die.

Anonymous cheddarman March 05, 2013 3:54 PM  

it reminds me of how Cathy Lee used to (and probably still does) whore out her own children incessantly for attention and affirmation. Facebook must die. - JDC

and hopefully, Cathy Lee.

Sincerely

cheddarman

OpenID freeonus March 05, 2013 5:39 PM  

@YIH

That said I have to admit I was somewhat surprised by this, apparently schools aren't held to the same privacy standards as doctors, attorneys and clergy. And yet educators like to say they are professionals as well.

I don't know about attorneys and clergy, but, as far as I can tell from the privacy statements that I've read at the doctors office, their standards can be summarized with "we don't share your information except when we do."

Anonymous civilServant March 05, 2013 8:13 PM  

their standards can be summarized with "we don't share your information except when we do."

You forgot to add, "If you do not assent to the sharing of this information then your health care provider is prohibited from viewing your file or discussing your case with you."

Blogger Justthisguy March 05, 2013 8:34 PM  

On the chipper: As I'm sure you all know, Michael Z. Williamson is running for Dictator. (He is not eligible for the Presidency, being foreign-born.) He has said that all FL voters and all FL LEOs will go through the chipper when he assumes the office. I wrote to him and protested that, saying that I was one of the few who voted correctly. I also told him about my experience running a chipper for Bartlett Tree Service, and offered my services as throttleman on the chipper when the time comes to put them through. He responded, and told me that I'll not be chipped.

I wonder if he'll vote for you, Vox.

Anonymous Manuel March 05, 2013 9:23 PM  

Anyone know how the mafia, the cartels, and other criminal organizations keep you in line so you pay your protection tax? They ask you for pics of your family.

Blogger Justthisguy March 05, 2013 11:38 PM  

Test comment, Google wants the number of my cell phone which doesn't exist.

Anonymous VD March 06, 2013 7:50 AM  

Vox, I guess this isn’t that off topic since the subject is internet privacy, but can you shed some light on who The Write Agenda is? They (he?) seems to have been universally and thoroughly exposed as a vindictive and obsessive cyberstalker (and worse, possibly as a vindictive and frustrated con artist), and yet they (he?) very much supports you for SFWA President.

I have no idea. But they're far from the only people supporting me. As far as their universal exposure as a cyberstalker, speaking as someone who has been inaccurately defamed as a "troll" of the Whatever blog in a mainstream publication, it might not be a bad idea to consider the sources.

Keep in mind you are dealing with the sort of people who genuinely believe I am trolling Whatever when they have spent more time poring obsessively over my blog in the last eight weeks than I have cumulatively spent at Whatever in the last eight years.

Blogger Hamilton March 06, 2013 1:57 PM  

My wife has a FB account. I've been weaning her off the tit of that monster for about 8 months now. She just doesn't see the dangers since everyone else is doing it. She still sticks a picture of the kids on there from time to time. Holidays usually. Makes me furious.

She showed me a picture that one of her "friends" posted of her two year old daughter passed out on the floor with no pants or undies on. Just laying on the wood floor sleeping on her stomach. Apparently the kid fell asleep while potty training or something. I posted (under my wife's account) "I hope your daughter has the right to sue you the moment she turns 18. What right do you have to violate your daughter's privacy for others casual ammusement?"

That comment ignited a firestorm of assinine opinions of moron housewives.

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