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Saturday, March 23, 2013

Interracial relations in a nutshell

This anecdote effectively summarizes the African approach to all things European and explains why both multiculturalism and the White Man's Burden were always doomed to failure:
The government was hoping to disenfranchise the estimated 30,000 white Zimbabweans by making those with actual or potential foreign citizenship actively choose to be Zimbabwean. But it mainly affected the more than one and a half million black Zimbabweans, many of them poor farmworkers, who had paternal links to the former Central African Federation and elsewhere.
How stupid.  And how quintessentially human. It doesn't matter what quasi-human sub-species you happen to be.  It doesn't matter if you are a white Soviet or a black Zimbabwean.  So long as you are more concerned with bringing down others than improving yourself, you will always fail.

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103 Comments:

Anonymous Godfrey March 23, 2013 10:11 AM  

Say what you will about Christianity, one thing is for sure its theology demonstrates a clear understanding of man. Pride and its offspring envy is the root of man’s folly.

Blogger Nate March 23, 2013 10:15 AM  

I can't even bring myself to facepalm. I resort... to the implied facepalm.

Anonymous Fidel March 23, 2013 10:40 AM  

The article shows that this is in the past. Apparently, the constitution has changed to stop these absurd situations. I read that the new constitution has limits on the power of the president.
Anything that limits "Mad Bob" has got to be good.

Anonymous Shorty March 23, 2013 10:40 AM  

The UK and US support for overt Marxist partisan fighters over the wealth-creating but segregating White Rhodesians was nothing but shameful.

The Blacks wanted Mugabe, so let them fester in that clusterfuck he created.

Anonymous Dusty Bottoms March 23, 2013 10:51 AM  

"So long as you are more concerned with bringing down others than improving yourself, you will always fail."

Using this. Thanks.

Anonymous David of One March 23, 2013 10:55 AM  

In January Zimbabwae had about $217 (US) in their national treasury ... something equivalent to $2+ Quadrillion (ZIM). In 2008 they had 231,000,000% inflation ... of course this followed the wholesale slaughter of the white Zim farmers.

Mugabe authored and encouraged this carnage from the outset ...




Anonymous A March 23, 2013 10:56 AM  

In the world of my fantasies, we allow white Zimbabweans and South Africans to come back to the north as refugees - not illiterate Somalis and Congolese...

Anonymous James May March 23, 2013 11:04 AM  

Damn black privilege. Damn it all to hell. Send McRapeKit over there to give a talk. He can kill two birds with one stone by getting them to not use rape as a debating tactic or on election campaigns.

Blogger Log March 23, 2013 11:07 AM  

So long as you are more concerned with bringing down others than improving yourself, you will always fail.

But so long as you are only perhaps slightly less concerned with bringing down others than improving yourself, you might sometimes succeed, as Vox contra Scalzi demonstrates.

And the truth of that statement strictly depends on one's definition of "improving yourself".

Anonymous Sigyn March 23, 2013 11:10 AM  

I sometimes wonder if Log isn't Asher's evil twin--or maybe Asher is Log's evil twin.

The hair-splitting thing is what makes me see a resemblance.

Blogger IM2L844 March 23, 2013 11:13 AM  

Faith in humanity is a frivolous proposition.

Anonymous VD March 23, 2013 11:34 AM  

But so long as you are only perhaps slightly less concerned with bringing down others than improving yourself, you might sometimes succeed, as Vox contra Scalzi demonstrates.

First, I spend less time thinking about McRapey in a week than I spend doing bicep curls alone. Second, he sought out and created this conflict. I'm simply finishing what he started. He can end it at any time by submitting and apologizing. If it drags on for years, he has only himself to blame.

In the meantime, it costs me nothing and provides me with no little amusement.

Anonymous Roundtine March 23, 2013 11:36 AM  

Hang on, I think we found the guys to run the amnesty.

Anonymous Bobbala March 23, 2013 11:36 AM  

"So long as you are more concerned with bringing down others than improving yourself, you will always fail."

Who's the one marching to extinction and whose breeding like cockroaches?

Anonymous Rantor March 23, 2013 11:37 AM  

Let's see, population: 13 Million, white voters: 30,000... hmm, feeling the need to disenfranchise .35% of the population? Must be pure racist hatred as I can't see any practical purpose.

In 2011 there were three white people in their 210 seat parliament, could they really be that strong a voting block? Are they slowing the process Mugabe uses to stuff foreign aid in his own bank accounts?

Or maybe Mugabe really didn't want these poor farmers voting... could they be anti-Mugabe?

Blogger Log March 23, 2013 11:37 AM  

Well, when Vox speaks of "improving [himself]", he surely doesn't mean "conforming with greater fidelity and integrity to the teachings of Jesus Christ", as evidenced by his ongoing crusade to compel Scalzi to submit to him.

After all, one of the best known teachings of Christ is "all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Vox knows well that Scalzi despises what Vox does and says about him, and takes apparent delight in that fact.

I suppose it's possible either Vox desires a world in which all men seek to compel every other man to submit to themselves, which seems to contradict the teachings of Christ but is consistent with Vox's "alpha" / "sigma" self-identification, or Vox is no follower of Christ at all, even if he does wave the cross as his flag.

Take your pick.

Anonymous The other skeptic March 23, 2013 11:43 AM  

Are these two simply continuing in Mugabe's tradition?

Anonymous Gx1080 March 23, 2013 11:43 AM  

@Log

Heh. I'm off to vacation for a week, but I want to say that a PC follower of Churchianity has absolutely no business telling others how to be Christian.

Go back to your MegaChurch. The 30-year old women with baby rabies and a looooong list of lovers are waiting for you.

Blogger Nate March 23, 2013 11:53 AM  

Log... if you recognized Vox and identified him as your meeting your conceptualization of a christian... then I would be deeply concerned for Vox.

Anonymous VryeDenker March 23, 2013 12:01 PM  

So long as you are more concerned with bringing down others than improving yourself, you will always fail.

Sorry, but I disagree. It is very easy to bring others down if you don't care for the fallout. Old Mad Bob Mugabe succeeded in not only slitting Zimbabwe's throat, but he gave a big old two finger salute to Europe and the rest of the West in the process. And if you ask him, he'll tell you that he is very pleased with himself.

Blogger Nate March 23, 2013 12:05 PM  

" And if you ask him, he'll tell you that he is very pleased with himself."

The slug is still a slug. Even if it is happy being a slug.

Anonymous Sigyn March 23, 2013 12:06 PM  

After all, one of the best known teachings of Christ is "all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Log, do you even pay attention to what other people here post? I haven't even been here but a couple of months, and I've already seen people give Vox levels of friendly crap that make his handling of Scalzi look like something out of Miss Manners' columns. Heck, even my husband's given him a hard time.

It's basically horseplay. This blog's a constant dogpile on the playground of the Internet.

The difference between Vox and Scalzi--well, one of 'em--is that Vox is able to laugh it off. Scalzi hasn't developed that kind of maturity yet.

Anonymous Sigyn March 23, 2013 12:08 PM  

...And Nate, one word from you playing on the word "horseplay" in relation to my husband, and you're getting a cast-iron skillet right up the nose. So help me.

Blogger Nate March 23, 2013 12:12 PM  

"...And Nate, one word from you playing on the word "horseplay" in relation to my husband, and you're getting a cast-iron skillet right up the nose. So help me."

So long as it doesn't have meatloaf in it...

Anonymous VryeDenker March 23, 2013 12:13 PM  

Success to the African mind isn't improving the quality of life. It's being sovereign ruler of his own shithole. Mugabe might be a slug, but he's a very successful one. He's also a hero to millions.

Anonymous cheddarman March 23, 2013 12:14 PM  

Whitey should just pack up and leave southern Africa before he gets extirpated within that geographic region.

After the countries erupt in civil war, and most of the population dies off in self induced famine or other calamity, the few remaining survivors will either 1) beg whitey to come back and run the place or 2) invite in the Chinese or Indians to do the same.

God help them if they choose the Chinese or Indians, as their new lords would probably kill of the survivors and colonize the place.


sincerely

cheddarman

Anonymous Koanic March 23, 2013 12:16 PM  

Hmm, maybe they can try (il)literacy tests next.

Anonymous James May March 23, 2013 12:17 PM  

Hey Log, ever read underground comix, like R. Crumb? Yeah, people take delight in humorless rednecks who get offended by essentially nothing. So they do even more of what offends them - it's call humor. These are people who confuse a joke about a thing with the act itself.

And the fact that the bleating sheep at McRapeKit claim lineage from the culture that invented underground comix, but in fact despise such things, makes it all the more irony-rich and humorous. That culture loved S. Clay Wilson - these people despise Wilson's humor. They want to be the ultimate edgy person while actually acting like the worst rednecks. They are prime targets to light up, and as stupid as neanderthals.

Their new version of edgy humor is to start a petition about bacon. Have you ever read the Tweets of these people? Reading Paulo Bacigalupi is like reading the thoughts of some insurance agent in Omaha in 1953 who'd never left town and read only Reader's Digest. They are appallingly conformist, stupid and unfunny people who are the closest thing to nuns from the '60s one can be without actually being a nun from the '60s.

There's nothing like lighting up morons who whine about things that in a couple of generations, they themselves have become. There's not a single doubt in my mind the sheep at McRapeKit sanction bigotry while they claim to hate it, and are the exact same rednecks Crumb laughed at. How benighted can you be to claim to hate the KKK and indulge those very principles at the same time? They ardently support racial bigots like Richards and Aunt Jeminsin.

It is that very hypocrisy that fueled the '60s counter culture movement. Today's PC liberal is yesterday's white lightning redneck, and now pushback is beginning, as one can see from the Adria Richards dust up. People are starting to see through the racism of the anti-racists.

And the PC are completely unaware of it - that's part of the whole joke. People with a certain sarcastic sense of humor have always been drawn to poking at the easily offended. The more they get offended the more we poke. Basically they get offended at the nature of reality itself.

Reading the comments section of McRapeKit is like a new underground comix every day. You can't make that stuff up. We find it a train wreck we cannot look away from. It's perfect case study of the perceptual trap and doublethink rolled into one. It's recess time and we're making fun of the nuns who are sure we're snickering at them - and so we are.

Watching the combination of overweening arrogance and sheer stupidity of a man like RapeKit is delicious. He has a certain crass cleverness at promotion which is based on a semi-realization of the fact he is forever barred from any actual creative act or perceptive wit. There is nothing funnier in the world than a rebel who is a complete conformist. A redneck who craves to be an iconoclast and detests their own middle class crassness and devotes much of their energy to proving how middle class they are not.

Reading that comments section is reading the stupidest and least lively intellects I've even seen gathered in one place who are convinced they are the exact opposite. It is a target-rich environment where they are on their hands and knees begging to be made fun of.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein March 23, 2013 12:20 PM  

Sigyn,
Does invoking your husband's name have the same effect as shouting "Blucher!!"?

Anonymous VryeDenker March 23, 2013 12:22 PM  

After the countries erupt in civil war, and most of the population dies off in self induced famine or other calamity, the few remaining survivors will either 1) beg whitey to come back and run the place or 2) invite in the Chinese or Indians to do the same.

Three things:
1. They LIKE it like that.
2. SOuth Africa has the largest Indian population outside of the country called INDIA.
3. The Chinese are already here.

Anonymous Dot connector March 23, 2013 12:24 PM  

"Scalzi is a liar and a creature of habitual and constant deceit."

Basically a liberal.

Anonymous James May March 23, 2013 12:25 PM  

And I echo the idea of the Gamma sheep ever in the least way admiring me. I'd certainly be horrified.

I once worked at a warehouse with many people. I got along wll with some and not at all with others. But I got along with the people I thought were cool and that's all that mattered. Had I not got along with those I would've taken a hard look at myself and I listened to their advice.

We've all known people like that in our lives. People we thought were so balanced in their views that if they ever thought we'd gone too far we sat up and listened.

McDingle-Dongle's clown brigade are the complete opposite of that. I crave their disapproval to confirm my own essential humanity.

Anonymous E. PERLINE March 23, 2013 12:32 PM  

I believe that when generations live in primitive or collectivist countries its people have no understanding of what keeps an economy going. For instance, the first category wants unending manna from heaven, or from anywhere else, and the second category wants wants government jobs coupled with an established system of bribery.

The only question the immigration department should be asking is - will this immigrant be productive or non-productive in our country?



Anonymous James May March 23, 2013 12:35 PM  

And here's some more racialist maunderings from the anti-racists. Like racial bigot and whitey-hater Aunt Jemisin, Saladin Ahmed is predictably up for a Nebula for best novel. Why? Do you have to ask?

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/01/is_game_of_thrones_too_white/

Keep in mind, in Salon liberal land and McRapeKit, if you don't look like David Duke but talk like him, it's considered wisdom.

Anonymous Sigyn March 23, 2013 12:35 PM  

Does invoking your husband's name have the same effect as shouting "Blucher!!"?

No, people around here just like to give him the horselaugh about those pesky rumors.

Anonymous Scintan March 23, 2013 12:47 PM  

After the countries erupt in civil war, and most of the population dies off in self induced famine or other calamity, the few remaining survivors will either 1) beg whitey to come back and run the place or 2) invite in the Chinese or Indians to do the same.

Ruler v. ruled is the natural state, and those who would change the balance rarely do so out of pure motives. In addition, there are always those among the ruled who wish to change to ruling, and thus the struggle is ever present. If the whites were actually invited back in, it would be merely another version of the British and French restorations, and would be doomed to a similar fate.

The U.S. is working on a new approach to dealing with this. Here, the goverment is building up the 'military' forces of the police via hardware and drones. In a decade or two, and quite possibly sooner, the people's will won't matter anymore, since the people are easy targets for airstrikes by a willing leader. Once the country reaches that point, a Bloomberg/Obama type will eventually rise to power and use the robot army against the populace "for its own good".

Blogger Nate March 23, 2013 12:49 PM  

Rumors... is THAT what they are?

I see.

Well what would I know... I thought the whole washing machine episode was his way of mocking that Stark character... I had no idea it was actually a washing machine you were referring to.

Blogger stareatgoatsies March 23, 2013 12:51 PM  

Vox, if you are to be consistent your provisional definition of human as referring to homo sapiens sapiens Europeans would be the quasi-humans since they're supposedly the ones with the mongrel Neanderthal DNA.

Anonymous Sigyn March 23, 2013 12:58 PM  

Well what would I know... I thought the whole washing machine episode was his way of mocking that Stark character... I had no idea it was actually a washing machine you were referring to.

...

What?

Blogger Nate March 23, 2013 1:00 PM  

Stark. Iron Man. The dude in the metal suit. Washing Machine.

/facepalm

never mind...

Anonymous scoobius dubious March 23, 2013 1:04 PM  

"Europeans would be the quasi-humans"

I say the people who invented the taxonomy get to say what to do with it.

"Success to the African mind isn't improving the quality of life. It's being sovereign ruler of his own shithole"

There's an old joke: an African and his wife are sitting in their hut in the pitch dark in the middle of the night. Suddenly the lights come on, the electricity starts to work, and water starts coming out of the faucet. The guy turns to his wife and says, "Goddammit, fetch me my rifle, woman! The white men are back!"

"The only question the immigration department should be asking is - will this immigrant be productive or non-productive in our country?"

The only question the immigration department should be asking is, How soon do we close up shop and go out of business?

There are 310 million people in this country, we have no need for ANY more immigrants, none whatsoever. Not a single one. We don't owe the rest of the world anything, this place is a country, not a box of candy that we have to share with the rest of the class. No more immigrants. No more refugees. No more "refugees" either. No more asylum seekers. No more foreign students. No more H1Bs. NO. MORE. IMMIGRANTS.

Anonymous GreyS March 23, 2013 1:11 PM  

The particulars may vary, but the general scheme of things in 'Room 100' is common in Africa. You can wait for hours days weeks months years for a simple stamp or signature. The office can and will close down at any given time and reopen when someone feels like it. You can be turned down with no or little reason and shocked by approval with no warning when nothing had changed from when you were turned down. In many cases, the best thing to do is to simply "make a friend". ($)

Anonymous Horse March 23, 2013 1:15 PM  

Vox said ***when he claimed to have published three books and had only published one.***

Details please!!!

Anonymous GreyS March 23, 2013 1:15 PM  

btw-- this is way off topic, but thought people would like to read more about the inevitability of drones-- Big money in it: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/mar/22/drones-FAA-northrop-aircraft/

Anonymous James May March 23, 2013 1:18 PM  

In regard to bringing down others rather than improving one's lot, Sayd Qutb, Muslim Brotherhood member and author of "Milestones" was notable for saying what he was against much more than what he was for.

Sure, he had a value system, but he was obsessed with measuring it against other systems and criticizing and even scheming to bring them down rather than secure in his own. This theme echoes in Islamic global politics to this very day. In fact I am often hard pressed to figure out what more radical expression of Islam are actually for.

Predictably, Nasser hung him for not being good at playing with others.

Anonymous Sigyn March 23, 2013 1:22 PM  

Stark. Iron Man. The dude in the metal suit. Washing Machine.

/facepalm

never mind...


Oh. No, we did not imprison Tony Stark in the basement. We have a rental unit in Toledo for subdued heroes--climate-controlled, of course. We're not barbarians, y'know.

Blogger Nate March 23, 2013 1:37 PM  

toledo.

I thought you said you weren't barbarians?

Anonymous Sigyn March 23, 2013 1:38 PM  

Well, we could've gotten it in Detroit...

Anonymous Anonagain March 23, 2013 1:40 PM  

It doesn't matter what quasi-human sub-species you happen to be.

Speaking of quasi-human... Decades of the Left's pernicious and relentless campaign against truth, common sense, decency, God, even nature itself, has created a vile thing - while yet being genetically human, it has no capacity for reason, it's godless spirit a welcome to all demons: Cultural Marxism: a CIS story 1/2.

A society comprised of these creatures cannot survive. Of course, that was the whole idea.

Anonymous VD March 23, 2013 1:49 PM  

Vox, if you are to be consistent your provisional definition of human as referring to homo sapiens sapiens Europeans would be the quasi-humans since they're supposedly the ones with the mongrel Neanderthal DNA.

Obviously. What does this have to do with what I actually wrote? You are attempting to correct for a nonexistent inconsistency.

Anonymous VD March 23, 2013 1:51 PM  

Details please!!!

Read the comments in the "New Heights of Prestige for the Nebula Award" thread at Electrolite.

Blogger IM2L844 March 23, 2013 1:57 PM  

I suppose it's possible either Vox desires a world in which all men seek to compel every other man to submit to themselves, which seems to contradict the teachings of Christ but is consistent with Vox's "alpha" / "sigma" self-identification, or Vox is no follower of Christ at all, even if he does wave the cross as his flag.

Take your pick.


John Scalzi is a typical pharisaical liberal, replete with pretentious sanctimony. Tell me Log, how did Jesus respond to people like that?

Anonymous Anonagain March 23, 2013 2:03 PM  

This: Unthinkable Evil: Teen Intentionally Shoots Woman’s 13-Month-Old Baby in the Face During Robbery Attempt could happen every day and not a single filthy Leftist would raise an eyebrow. But that Travyon thug, worthless piece of African crap, out looking for trouble, gets himself killed while assaulting someone, and the whole world is aghast in racial righteous indignation.

Anonymous Clay March 23, 2013 2:10 PM  

The last "smart thing" to come out of Sub-Saharan Africa, was a cotton picker, and the Blood Hound.

Yeah, I said it.

Anonymous Anonagain March 23, 2013 2:12 PM  

As one witnesses this world's accelerating descent into hell, one wonders what the prevalent conditions on this Earth will be when God finally decides that enough is enough.

Anonymous Horse March 23, 2013 2:16 PM  

OK, that post was eye opening. John stands up for you and then you picked a fight. But regardless, the comment...

***"Yeah, I gotta update the site. What can I say. To be brief: Three books sold to Tor (Old Man's War, The Android's Dream, The Ghost Brigades) and one to Subterranean Press (Agent to the Stars)."***

...appears to be accurate as of 3/1/05. His claim from the beginning (at least on that thread) was that they were sold, not published.

Anyway, with a comment like...

***"Scalzi is a liar and a creature of habitual and constant deceit."***

...you'd think you'd have evidence coming out of the woodwork of his habitual and constant deceit and if this is the best you've got you have no case.

Anonymous Clay March 23, 2013 2:16 PM  

5.56, and the other calibers you prefer.

Anonymous cheddarman March 23, 2013 2:17 PM  

Off topic Question for Vox and the Dread Ilk. I took the red pill and woke up from churchianity about 2 years ago. I am trying to reclaim and re-orient my faith to that of true orthodox (as in small "o" orthodox, not the Greek or Russian forms) Christianity. Reading this blog helps, but I would like to start re-orienting myself in a more systematic manner. Learning how to read and interpret the bible correctly would be an excellent place to start. Any suggestions? i would really appreciate if Vox could devote a new thread to this.

Sincerely

cheddarman

Anonymous Anonagain March 23, 2013 2:17 PM  

The last "smart thing" to come out of Sub-Saharan Africa, was a cotton picker, and the Blood Hound.

Hell, trained monkeys, I mean real monkeys, could have done the same job. The bumper stickers have it right, "If I knew then what I know now, I would have picked my own cotton."

Anonymous Geoff March 23, 2013 2:28 PM  

What Scoobius said. We're full up here, thanks.

Anonymous The other skeptic March 23, 2013 2:30 PM  

This: Unthinkable Evil: Teen Intentionally Shoots Woman’s 13-Month-Old Baby in the Face During Robbery Attempt could happen every day and not a single filthy Leftist would raise an eyebrow. But that Travyon thug, worthless piece of African crap, out looking for trouble, gets himself killed while assaulting someone, and the whole world is aghast in racial righteous indignation.

That's because the mother and the child are the wrong type of whites.

The WPOAC will simply be regarded as providing near-birth abortions.

Anonymous Daniel March 23, 2013 2:34 PM  

cheddarman, I think that is an endeavor worthy of more than a single post. I've noticed a need for some sort of organized preventative or recovery from churchianity, ranging from homeschool to disciple/cleric and everything in between.

Anonymous rycamor March 23, 2013 2:35 PM  

cheddarman March 23, 2013 2:17 PM
Learning how to read and interpret the bible correctly would be an excellent place to start. Any suggestions? i would really appreciate if Vox could devote a new thread to this.


It's a big topic, but you can start by abandoning the usual modern churchian dancing around those uncomfortable Bible passages. You know, the ones where people start saying "What God really meant was..." Generally, anything to do with our modern cultural taboos, especially male-female relationships, of course.

One of my friends who is a formidable Christian philosopher, says "Time and time again, I have had Christians coming to me in a panic: 'How do we get around this verse?'" If that's what you are trying to do, you are playing for the wrong team. Now, that doesn't mean we take every verse literally. It's usually quite obvious from the context whether the verse is literal, figurative, or metaphorical (or applied only to a specific group), but one should *absolutely* learn all one can of the cultures in which the Old & New Testament were written, to better understand how certain phrases were meant to come across.

Anonymous Gen. Kong March 23, 2013 2:40 PM  

VryeDenker:
Sorry, but I disagree. It is very easy to bring others down if you don't care for the fallout. Old Mad Bob Mugabe succeeded in not only slitting Zimbabwe's throat, but he gave a big old two finger salute to Europe and the rest of the West in the process. And if you ask him, he'll tell you that he is very pleased with himself.

Any why shouldn't he be? All the mandarins of the EUSSR and Banksta Banana Republick kiss is arse on a daily basis as they sing their hymn to equality über alles - along with a significant percentile of the white populace. Even most the whites remaining there in Southern Africa - themselves targets of open genocide - continue to genuflect before the golden calf. The ruling oligarchs of the "free" west installed Mugabe to begin with. They must obviously be pleased with his results, just as they are with those wrought by their minions in South Africa, or the most recent superlative achievement of those who could be sons of D'Won Mocha Messiah in Brunswick, Georgia for that matter.

Anonymous zeonxavier March 23, 2013 2:50 PM  

@cheddarman: Orthodox Christianity? Chesterton wrote a book discussing orthodoxy as a topic you could download for free, and C.S. Lewis also distilled his radio talks about "Mere Christianity" into the identically titled book.

If those do not suit your needs, you may need to be more specific about what you mean by orthodoxy.

Anonymous Clay March 23, 2013 2:51 PM  

@chedderman

Hey, cheese...

God will show you the way. I was raised Catholic, my wife, S.Baptist. We let our daughter go to church with many friends, and she chose Presbeterian. Good for her.

There really is no answer to your question.

It's what you feel in your heart. You don't need any one else's advice.

Anonymous GreyS March 23, 2013 2:53 PM  

"OK, that post was eye opening. John stands up for you and then you picked a fight"

Manure. Unfortunately, I slogged through most of that mess. John stood up for him but got cold feet and started dancing the "I agree VDs an idiot, but what can you do?" dance. My main takeaway from the whole thing was how little Scalzi has changed:

--Act superior while having a couple good points.
--Berate those who disagree with you.
--Repeatedly dodge direct questions while insulting the questioner and play-acting as if it's all beneath you.
--Repeat.

Anonymous Clay March 23, 2013 2:54 PM  

I'm not sure I know how to spell "Presbertian", BTW


Prolly NOT.

Anonymous Horse March 23, 2013 3:02 PM  

GreyS, did you also take away that Vox's claim that Scalzi lied about his books sold was also manure?

Anonymous Freyja March 23, 2013 3:07 PM  

"Horse" needs Loki.

Blogger Nate March 23, 2013 3:20 PM  

"Read the comments in the "New Heights of Prestige for the Nebula Award" thread at Electrolite."

Oh God... I had forgotten all about that trainwreck..

Blogger stareatgoatsies March 23, 2013 3:33 PM  

You are attempting to correct for a nonexistent inconsistency.

by damn, you're right. greater care required

Anonymous GreyS March 23, 2013 3:37 PM  

"GreyS, did you also take away that Vox's claim that Scalzi lied about his books sold was also manure?"

Yes. What I read was that Scalzi claimed to have *sold* four books. VD questioned that claim because of what is on Scalzi's website. Scalzi then said he had sold more but hadn't yet updated his website. Unless Scalzi had edited his comment to fix the words, I'd say that VD's comment today about Scalzi lying about *publishing* was indeed manure.

Having worked in the film and tv business for a while, I'm pretty familiar with work sold which doesn't go anywhere after that. Having not worked in the book world, I can only guess that it is similar.

Anonymous VD March 23, 2013 3:49 PM  

OK, that post was eye opening. John stands up for you and then you picked a fight.

He didn't stand up for anything but an absence of a litmus test for belonging to SFWA and being on a Nebula Jury. Nor did I pick the fight.

In fact, you'll notice that he's making the same sort of mistake he made again with his "I am a rapist post".

...appears to be accurate as of 3/1/05. His claim from the beginning (at least on that thread) was that they were sold, not published.

Fair enough. Obviously I didn't remember it precisely; he also claimed four, not three. But it was still the moment that I knew he was full of it. No one in publishing talks about books "sold", they always talk about books "published". For example, I've published 9 books, but I've sold 14, perhaps even 15.

That's the sort of spin and exaggeration in which he habitually engages. And there is no shortage of his deceit on display in that very thread; you'll note that he openly refuses to answer questions while claiming direct answers to his own are somehow invalid as per his authority.

Anyhow, I'll correct the "three published".

Anonymous VD March 23, 2013 3:54 PM  

Well, when Vox speaks of "improving [himself]", he surely doesn't mean "conforming with greater fidelity and integrity to the teachings of Jesus Christ", as evidenced by his ongoing crusade to compel Scalzi to submit to him.

To me? Not at all. To the truth. Scalzi is a liar and a creature of habitual and constant deceit. I've known him for a liar since literally the day we "met", when he claimed to have sold four books while his web site claimed only one "conventionally published". One reason he is so good at self-marketing is because he is an intrinsically deceitful and parasitic individual.

He's not the only person who despises me. And one thing I've observed over the years are the people who most despise me are always those who fear me because they have something to hide that they know I see.

And while I don't curry the dislike of such individuals, I don't mind it. I would be concerned and wonder what I was doing wrong if they thought well of me.

Anonymous Clay March 23, 2013 4:16 PM  

Damn....I'm an Ilkster, and I despise Vox, too.

(But, only because he met Space Bunny before I did)

Anonymous Horse March 23, 2013 4:37 PM  

But it was still the moment that I knew he was full of it.

Seems to me you were looking for a reason. I'd agree with you if those books weren't all published within a years time of the comment.

Blogger GF Dad March 23, 2013 4:43 PM  

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Anonymous cherub's revenge March 23, 2013 4:55 PM  

The particulars may vary, but the general scheme of things in 'Room 100' is common in Africa. You can wait for hours days weeks months years for a simple stamp or signature. The office can and will close down at any given time and reopen when someone feels like it. You can be turned down with no or little reason and shocked by approval with no warning when nothing had changed from when you were turned down. In many cases, the best thing to do is to simply "make a friend". ($)

So no different than the Cook County permitting department. Separated by centuries and thousands of miles...same result.

Anonymous VD March 23, 2013 5:02 PM  

Seems to me you were looking for a reason. I'd agree with you if those books weren't all published within a years time of the comment.

Not at all. I'd never heard of John Scalzi and he was, initially, far from the worst of the Electrolite lot. As it happens, he was telling the truth, at least, I assume he was. But by talking about "books sold" as evidence of how he knew all about hard SF, it was obvious that he was a bullshit artist. As his false characterizations of my own column subsequently made obvious.

Note that he was saying exactly the same thing back in 2005 that he was in 2012. What I was saying couldn't be satire, or irony, or sarcasm, but if it was, then it was bad, and so it didn't count, etc.

I mean, I have not only never talked about how many books I have "sold" (in the contractual sense, obviously), I don't even know off the top of my head how many books I have sold because so many things can happen in between when you sign the contract and when the printed book shows up as much as five years later. The publisher gets bought, a new editor comes in, a new executive changes the corporate direction, the marketing director hates you, you name it.

It's not unlike when you hear a lawyer in casual conversation dropping in all sorts of lawyerly terms, "point of privilege" and "objection!" You don't need to review his legal record to know he's at the very least mediocre.

Anonymous Fidel March 23, 2013 5:19 PM  

Mad Bob is a good man !!

He will never be invaded by the US, because Zim has no oil.

He is the only world leader to crap the US ambassador out when he said that Bob was not elected, by replying that the US president ( George Bush ) was also not elected. (Correct).

Mad Bob knows that he can do what he wants, because the only resistance he has is Americans writing outraged! about him.
Which he laughs at.
Mad Bob Mugabe cums in the Western World's face. i.e. Your face, commenters.

What can you do when Mad Bob laughs at you???

Anonymous James May March 23, 2013 5:31 PM  

I don't see McRapeKit as a liar in the traditional sense. His skill set is the same one as the typical progressive liberal or person with an unprincipled intellect - being disingenuous.

He claims he censors so heavily to keep a nice space but in fact it's to advance a narrative that couldn't otherwise in the least way survive challenge. When you are advancing arguments so dumb they fall apart merely by saying "well, isn't that racism too"" one damn well better keep a heavy hand on the bleeper. The result is a pure echo chamber of plaintive bleats and shearing of sheep.

Liberals decontextualize events purposefully; it's their stock in trade. They essentially censor all of history so there are no African slavers, no anti-Jim Crow in Minnesota, no Northwest Ordinance, and whenever they can, they ignore the Civil War the same way they love to ignore the fact a black guy is President. That's lovely and a threat at the same time because it takes away the bogey men they so painstakingly create with their bizarre hypothesis about white privilege and the New Jim Crow.

Anonymous Sigyn March 23, 2013 5:32 PM  

I'm not sure I know how to spell "Presbertian", BTW

"Presbyterian".

"Horse" needs Loki.

Freyja needs chili.

Anonymous Fidel March 23, 2013 5:34 PM  

And, the more I think of it, the more I like him...

Take a fresh look.... 7 years ago, he told the IMF to stick it's penis up it's ass. His country suffered major inflation. Then they dropped their own currency, adopted the dollar, and are styling since.....

No IMF agent would now dare walk into Mad Bob's country and tell him to steal money out of citizen's savings.

Personally, I would feel happier investing in a Zim bank than any bank in a Western country.

Fuck Mad Bob???

Long Live Mad Bob !!!
He is what us liberterians have been wanting for years.

Anonymous Fidel March 23, 2013 5:36 PM  

John Scalzi..... *yawn*

Anonymous realmatt March 23, 2013 5:37 PM  

I tried to find the comment, but saw the word "icky" in a comment allegedly written by a full grown human male and had to kill myself. I came back from death only to say this. I'll be dead by midnight.

Anonymous Sigyn March 23, 2013 6:02 PM  

Realmatt, are you going to use your body? Or could you wrap it up and mail it to us? We've been looking for a fresh cadaver for a scheme, but hadn't figured out a way to get one without making people look at us funny.

Doesn't have to be in one piece, either.

...Oh dear God, I can't believe I just wrote all that.

Anonymous realmatt March 23, 2013 6:12 PM  

I might be harboring a certain disgraced Norse God within my shell, so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Anonymous Dr. Idle Spectator, Massachusetts General Psychiatric March 23, 2013 6:56 PM  

So long as you are more concerned with bringing down others than improving yourself, you will always fail.

What a marvelous and simple definition of exactly what Malignant Narcissism is.

Blogger Nate March 23, 2013 7:15 PM  

Sigyn... Dear girl...

Why are you asking him?

If you need something like that... well in the old days you'd go to Bane... these days... you'd come to me.

Now... what exactly do you need... be specific.

Anonymous Sigyn March 23, 2013 7:44 PM  

Why are you asking him?

Well, he just said he's not going to be needing it in a few hours. Press while the iron's hot, right?

these days... you'd come to me.

What, are you volunteering, too?

Blogger Nate March 23, 2013 7:51 PM  

"What, are you volunteering, too."

Silly girl.

If you need what you say... look me up. I can help.

Anonymous Stilicho March 23, 2013 8:03 PM  

Let's see, population: 13 Million, white voters: 30,000... hmm, feeling the need to disenfranchise .35% of the population? Must be pure racist hatred as I can't see any practical purpose.

In 2011 there were three white people in their 210 seat parliament, could they really be that strong a voting block? Are they slowing the process Mugabe uses to stuff foreign aid in his own bank accounts?

Or maybe Mugabe really didn't want these poor farmers voting... could they be anti-Mugabe?


1) didn't you hear? They caused the hyperinflation.

2) WTF? there are still 30,000 white people in Zimbabwe? MPAI indeed.

Anonymous Stilicho March 23, 2013 8:05 PM  


What a marvelous and simple definition of exactly what Malignant Narcissism is.


Ah, now I know who Bruce Wayne's alter ego is.

Anonymous Red March 23, 2013 9:55 PM  

I just read the electrolite, and wow!
VD is a real Mother Teresa of internet debates, he has the patience of a saint.
I don't know how one can be amused by watching people struggle with finding a word on the dictionary.
Like realmatt I felt like killing myself over that thread.

Anonymous The other skeptic March 24, 2013 1:28 AM  

I just read the electrolite, and wow!

Heh.

Topic for debate: Women know in their genes that opening their legs will get them through life a lot easier than learning math and engineering.

Oops. I forgot the differing variances of males and females.

Anonymous VD March 24, 2013 3:19 AM  

I don't know how one can be amused by watching people struggle with finding a word on the dictionary.

One thing you'll notice about rabbits is they will, quite seriously, insist that they know what you meant better than you do. The contortions over the use of the word "hack", which has something like 24 different meanings, when I used it in the dictionary sense of "to tolerate; cope with" and not "to be fundamentally able to perform" as Scalzi and others insisted, was entirely typical.

Anonymous James May March 24, 2013 4:42 AM  

Reading the Electrolite comments was interesting, in the dullest possible sense of the term.

If the word "obvious" has any true meaning, then it's obvious the people involved are far more interested in politics and pedantic posturings over how to properly dot an eye than in the act of creativity, and so, as writers, that's what you'll get in the field of SF and fantasy.

You couldn't more effectively kill a genre if you assigned all future writing in fantastic literature to a disinterested crew of oil-rig workers in the South China Sea.

The marked lack of such long debates over the nature of creativity itself more than suggests a complete lack of interest and or insight in such matters. Why should I be surprised most fantastic literature reflects the community that writes it?

The act of bright and eccentric creativity is filtered through every possible scrim but the act itself. It seems at once as mysterious and loathsome a subject as discussing one of Lovecraft's horrible gods from behind the stars, if not tabu.

I've read that writers actually use software to detect patterns in their own writing, which as a creative act, I compare to banging your head against a wall until you see sparks.

Fantastic literature has become a victim of its own success. Once a refuge from mainstream conformism and the drudgery of having to conform to a mainstream dollar, it has now succumbed to those very things.

As as example, try and imagine Van Vogt's "The Weapon Shop" being adapted into a film in 1943. The idea is absurd. No one would've touched it and no mainstream audience understood it or put up with it.

Now imagine any prominent work in the field today you wish to and imagine it made into a film. The literature has become much more palatable to mainstream audiences. Some of this is because the SF vocabulary of the mainstream is much more educated in SF's vocabulary, but it's hard to escape the conclusion that SF itself had become much less sophisticated in its outlook by becoming more dollar and user friendly.

The act of creativity is supposed to be a mystery to audiences, not creators. Imagine stage magicians stymied by how to create magic tricks and you get the picture. No wonder the 6 Nebula nominees are parsed through politics and trendiness; there are literally no other tools available by which to judge them. May as well have a parrot pick pieces of paper out of slots.

The amazing clincher is that a genre reduced to choosing artistic autism like "Ender's Game" as a historic expression of their own genre, while much better novels exist few have even read, indicates a genre that has fallen so far into itself there is little chance of escape. It is like reducing Pearl Harbor to a minor skirmish, now forgotten to history.

The democratization of SF into a field where every voice is heard and for the wrong reasons, has destroyed it as a viable art form and turned it into Top 40 consumed and loved today and forgotten tomorrow. In a purely qualitative sense, it is the difference between Penelope Pitstop and Tex Avery.

I'm trying to imagine Heinlein or Van Vogt having churned out endless tales of vampires or zombies or fallen asleep and somehow kept writing until they had something like "Hyperion" or the Wheel of Time and I can't.

And it is significant "The Weapon Shops" would still be beyond the patience of the average SF fan to watch as a film. Fortunately it was never turned into a long series where the 15th novel was called "The Buttocks of the Weapon Shops" or a game where the weapons were used in a visual pin ball game of post-apocalyptic target shooting for people who think a doorknob to the outside world is as tabu as the act of creativity itself.

Reading "The Nightland," C.A. Smith or Jirel of Joiry still seems like the stunning new kids on the block.

Anonymous Sigyn March 24, 2013 8:27 AM  

Semi-OT: Chicago is downsizing its school district due to budget issues, but the natives are taking it all personal and stuff, seeing as black kids are the ones most often moved around.

What gives me a sadface is that one of their big objections is that this might heat up some gang wars...

Anonymous Benjamin Franklin March 24, 2013 1:07 PM  

If you need something like that... well in the old days you'd go to Bane... these days... you'd come to me.


Ahem..

Anonymous Morris Q March 24, 2013 8:56 PM  

Vox, what is your take on vdare.com? Theyre a single-issue website focused on immigration. Do you agree with them that Western nations should put an end to all immigration, both legal and illegal?

Anonymous Idle Spectator March 25, 2013 12:35 AM  

Ah, now I know who Bruce Wayne's alter ego is.

I need a new bat suit.

Anonymous Svaðilfari March 25, 2013 9:32 AM  

@ Sigyn

"Horse" needs Loki.

Freyja needs chili.


You're not even a god. A smart human, a given. Humans are easy.

I've got Loki's chili, with, or without beans. Where do you think he is now? He's a morphed bitch in my hotel room.

Substandard chili, That's Loki. I had to pay for our stall. The front desk at the barn rejected his credit card, and refused to serve him breakfast in a feedbag.

But...why does he keep pawing, and crapping on the floor?

Such manners.

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