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Saturday, March 02, 2013

Spain attacks democracy

Italy and Greece have already flirted with post-democracy, now it is Spain's turn to do the same.  It's informative to see how the various governments facing secession movements appear to take them considerably more seriously than those who can't see past the status quo, so seriously that they're even willing to throw democracy and self-determination overboard if need be:
The Spanish government has launched a legal challenge against Catalonia’s recent “declaration of sovereignty”, in the latest move by Madrid to halt the region’s march towards independence.

The government said it would ask Spain’s constitutional court to nullify the Catalan parliament’s January declaration, which stated that the “people of Catalonia have, for reasons of democratic legitimacy, the nature of a sovereign political and legal subject”.

The resolution is intended to pave the way for a regional referendum on independence, and reflects the recent surge in separatist sentiment in Spain’s most important economic region.
It's a little amusing to see journalists raise the indebted state of the regions seeking secession and sovereignty as if it is an anti-secessionary pressure.  The reality is that debt is an excellent reason to secede, as a sovereign can borrow more easily and default at will.

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28 Comments:

Anonymous Godfrey March 02, 2013 2:25 PM  

More people around the world psychologically secede every day. Welcome to the age of the apolitical.

The State is dead. Man no longer believes.

Blogger Old Rebel March 02, 2013 2:36 PM  

The 19th and 20th centuries were the age of ideology and centralization. The 21st is shaping up as the age of devolution and the return of traditional cultures as organizing principles.

The megastates of the last two centuries monopolized power and resources, leading to the wholesale carnage of both world wars. The future, I believe, will be defined by the discovery that small is not only beautiful, but more peaceful.

Anonymous The other skeptic March 02, 2013 2:38 PM  

A rose by any other name

Blogger tz March 02, 2013 2:39 PM  

Sometimes when you try to keep all the eggs in one basket, the Basques will head for the exits.

Anonymous Soga March 02, 2013 3:19 PM  

"The State is dead. Man no longer believes."

First, they thought God dead. Now the State follows. If Man believes in nothing, what will he believe in?

Anonymous Anonagain March 02, 2013 3:22 PM  

It's a little amusing to see journalists raise the indebted state of the regions seeking secession and sovereignty as if it is an anti-secessionary pressure.

Indeed. Extricating oneself from a ball and chain is generally considered to be liberating. Even if one is left with nothing afterwards, at least the weight has been lifted.

But as anyone with two functioning brain cells is able to discern, the typical journalist is a Leftist who has no interest in reporting the simple truth, but rather in propagating the propaganda that best advances their globalist agenda, with which both freedom and independence are highly incompatible.

Blogger rcocean March 02, 2013 3:39 PM  

I've never understood this obsession some have with Keeping "loser" regions in their country. Many British were extremely upset when Ireland declared its independence, yet it was best thing ever for the UK. Getting rid of Scotland would increase the per ca-pita wealth of England and get rid of about 60 Labor MPs. Northern Italy would be better off without Sicily and Naples, English Canada would be better off without Quebec, Russia without the Muslims and we'd better off with New England or Hawaii. Let them all secede.

Anonymous Anonymous March 02, 2013 3:43 PM  

It's the other way around. Catalonia isn't the loser region -- it's the stronger region. (Barcelona is in Catalonia.) I spent 3 weeks in Barcelona last winter. They identify as much with the French as with the Spanish. They see themselves as more industrious than the rest of Spain. They also have a different language which they take fairly seriously. I'd say half of what you hear on the street is Catalan. I saw an elementary school class in a museum operating in Catalan, for instance. It's about as closely related to Spanish as is Portuguese. If you know Spanish you can sort of figure it out.

Anonymous Nah March 02, 2013 3:52 PM  

The State is dead. Man no longer believes.

I don't know how you get that from this story. The Catalans are not against the idea of a state -- they want their own state -- they just don't want to be part of the Spanish state.

Blogger Old Rebel March 02, 2013 4:11 PM  

I think Nah is right. People still need a nation of their own. The big ideological states are quickly losing their legitimacy, and are being replaced by smaller political entities.

I suspect Medieval Europe, with its overlapping and limited sovereignties, will be our new model for the future.

Anonymous Azimus March 02, 2013 4:23 PM  

When did Franco die? It was in the 1980's I think. So Spain has had democracy for roughly 30yrs. They're doing a real bang-up job!

Anonymous Anonymous March 02, 2013 4:31 PM  

They are illegally postponing the municipal elections, because of Golden Dawn

http://golden-dawn-international-newsroom.blogspot.com/2013/03/they-are-illegally-postponing-municipal.html

A law, voted on 2010, that merged many municipalities states that municipal elections will take place every 5 years, on the same days of the European elections, effective immediately. So, the next municipal elections will take place on the June of 2014. However, we hear within the Parliament, and through the pro-government Press the existence of a scenario to postpone the municipal elections until June of 2015, defying the law.


This move is considered by Golden Dawn as a major antidemocratic coup, because the People elected their local "masters" for strictly one term of office. Any prolongation of their term is done for the interests of the ruling parties, and does nothing good for the municipalities themselves. At the moment, the Panhellinic Socialist Movement (PASOK) controls 8 regional governors and 220 mayors, while New Democracy controls 80 mayors. It is clear that Pasok, that currently has 4-5% of the vote, will not re-elect any mayor or regional governor! New Democracy's power on the municipalities will also decrease. In addition, we will finally have a grasp on Golden Dawn's REAL percentages, and she will elect mayors and regional governors!

The Golden Dawn is not surprised by their Stalinist methods.

Anonymous The other skeptic March 02, 2013 4:43 PM  

Oh dear, Beppe Grillo wants to process the Jews, whatever that means.

Blogger rcocean March 02, 2013 4:43 PM  

I must say that some of these European secession movements are hard to understand. Don't the Basque's want to break away from Spain too? What's that all about? Don't the Brenton want to leave France and the Flemish secede from Belgium? Funny how the East Asians never have this problem. Tibet and some of the Muslims no doubt want to leave China but most of Korea, China and Japan are incredibly homogeneous and patriotic.

Blogger rcocean March 02, 2013 4:46 PM  

BTW, the Russians made a big mistake prior to 1914 in not kicking Georgia, Poland, the Baltics, and the Jewish Pale settlement out of their Russian Empire. There obsession with conquering others really came back to bite them.

Anonymous Azimus March 02, 2013 5:04 PM  

@ rcocean

See: Indonesia, Phillipines, Myanmar. Others.

Blogger Rantor March 02, 2013 5:23 PM  

Basque: Been fighting Spain off and on for years
Brenton: Don't know, but if I were French I'd want to leave that Islam importing mongrel of a nation.
Flemish: They think they are the only ones working in Belgium (Germans are 2% and so don't count) The Walloons, French speakers all, are lazy, indolent, welfare mongering and Islam importing buffoons. So the Flems want out.
Northern Italy: Would like to secede, they are the rich and wealthy, hard-working Italians, not like their chaotic, siesta-snoring brothers to the south.

Anonymous Godfrey March 02, 2013 5:36 PM  

@Soga March 02, 2013 3:19 PM "The State is dead. Man no longer believes."

First, they thought God dead. Now the State follows. If Man believes in nothing, what will he believe in?


Anything as in the latest fad and fiction.

Anonymous Godfrey March 02, 2013 5:41 PM  

@Nah March 02, 2013 3:52 PM The State is dead. Man no longer believes.

I don't know how you get that from this story. The Catalans are not against the idea of a state -- they want their own state -- they just don't want to be part of the Spanish state.


At first each region will be its own state, then each village its own state and then soon thereafter each block its own state.

Anonymous James May March 02, 2013 6:02 PM  

Basque is kind of a more historic gripe. Catalonia has that too but they've been in on the good stuff so it hasn't come to the fore as much.

Spain is in a lot of trouble. 20%+ unemployment. It's the future of America. We have 8% unemployment. You don't have to be a genius figure out that with millions of illegals and millions more legals, we've outstripped our economy. A high minimum wage will only make that worse as people will hire illegals to survive in business.

We keep thinking our 8% is an anomaly, like in the past, but it may be here to stay.

The reason Spain is in trouble and is a warning to us is that 25 years ago, 1 in 50 people in Spain was an immigrant, now it's 1 in 7. A little over 10 years ago 2% of the people in Spain were immigrants, now it's 12%. Political correctness is wrecking the place, and maybe Catalonia wants out.

People who think it can't happen here are crazy. Democrats and PC bleeding heart liberals without a brain in their skulls are guaranteeing much higher unemployment wil happen here. Besides that Obama is part of the New Jim Crow black political and academic Left who delight in the idea of the percentage of whites in America dwindling.

Of course they're nuts because the reason blacks do even as well as they do is because of the people they politically disdain the most. Killing the goose that laid the golden egg is suicide but to PC liberals like Scalzi, diversity is king. In fact, it's a dirt bag idea that will destroy America within 100 years.

Europe will go first even though they spend nothing on their military compared to us, which shows you what a hollow gourd their economies are. They have small shanty towns in Spain. We'll have them too once OWS-type tactics by illegals are put in place. They'll hold press conferences with ACLU lawyers that they need electricity and sewer on ground they squat on illegally and the whole mess will start a new era in American history.

Anonymous Jake-the-Rake March 02, 2013 6:15 PM  

The Northern Italian "leghisti" are as good as gone. The anglo-amerigo sphere MSM (including Drudge) gets its news from the leftwing Italian rags (especially Repubblica)... so all you hear about is "sex fiend" Berlusconi and now "Comedian" Beppe Grillo. Yes, he WAS a comedian, and a very successful one many years ago, until he was silenced on account of an anti-socialist party quip. Then after politically oriented cabaret work, he started a blog... it became Italy's number one political blog... a huge success.

So what you're looking at now - at least in Italy - is another type of secessionist movement... a total break from the MSM. He garnered approx. 25% of the vote without appearing once on TV and being ostracised by all the major daily rags. His attacks are against the system... PDL /PD / Monti and all the rest - PLUS - equally fercious attacks against the major newspapers and TV networks - THE SYSTEM.

They'll say "comedian"... but they should be saying "blogger" -"internet" - alternate media.

And that is very scary to the powers-that-be.

Italy is a politically inventive country (usually in the negative sense: Fascism / "democratic" prosciutto e melone Communism / media mogulism... and now Bloggerismo.

It's another type of separatism... a reaction of total contempt and disgust for the "caste"... No doubt similar sentiments are found in America.

Though politics are different - imagine a Rush running for President... or a Whittle...

Anonymous allyn71 March 02, 2013 7:41 PM  

If you get around to it Vox would you consider doing a rundown on the political environment in Italy post-election specifically and/or the political environment of the EU generally from your perspective.

As Jake-the-Rake has pointed out the American Media is doing a cursory job at best covering the Italian elections but the impact to the EU seems like it could be huge.

I have been curious about your opinion/perspective since the Italian elections and the poor showing of the EU/Banker approved canidates.

Anonymous Nah March 02, 2013 8:38 PM  

At first each region will be its own state, then each village its own state and then soon thereafter each block its own state.

I doubt it. The Czechs and Slovaks didn't devolve any further after breaking into two states, nor did any of the Yugoslavian successor states.

Blogger Justthisguy March 02, 2013 9:21 PM  

As someone whose proudest boast about his family is that all four of his great-grandfathers fought honorably against the United States of America, it just warms my cockles to see people seceding, who ever they be.

Blogger Doom March 02, 2013 9:48 PM  

Democracy needs to be attacked. It is only good if one of two, and probably both, things are in play. First, those who put in are the only ones who should be able to decide what goes out. Second, a republic needs to exist which can and will limit even that amount of electoral process, ensuring mob rule isn't the only game in town. Barring that you get here what we have here, a race to genocide. Everyone is promised everything. They will all get something, at the cost of someone else, but it will be less than what they are getting now and even that will be from which others get their "dues".

Best to find a hole or three, dig some tunnels between them, and just stay out of the way until the stupid voters either lose or lose and the socialist state burns up or becomes enough softly corrupt to ignore. It's going to get hot, shortly. Funny how the supporters are usually the first into the ovens though. All good, if it is there choice, leave them too it.

Anonymous Unending Improvement March 02, 2013 10:02 PM  

People no longer believe in the state?

Yeah, I'll believe that when I see it.

Witness Obushma, Hollande, The United Kingdom, among others.

Anonymous E. PERLINE March 03, 2013 8:39 AM  

The Spanish monarchy got rid of its Jews and now they can't get the hang of things. Maybe they should rent a few entrepreneur Jews from Israel.

Anonymous DrTorch March 03, 2013 11:38 AM  

so seriously that they're even willing to throw democracy and self-determination overboard if need be:

So how does this tie in w/ Mich and Detroit?

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