Incestuous homogamy
Jeremy Irons identifies one of the many problems with legal homogamy:
After all, if we are to accept the idea that homosexuality is no longer immoral, what grounds do we have for not similarly declaring incest to be morally acceptable as well. The homosexual lobby has not answered this question with anything but rhetoric and faux outrage, mostly because they have no answer for it.
The fact is that two men or two women cannot ever marry because marriage is a particular relationship between a man and one or more women. The various governments can pass all the laws declaring fish to be fowl they like, but the chromosomes remain. Government didn't create marriage. Government doesn't define marriage.
The state is going to have to get out of the marriage business if it doesn't wish to impair the institution entirely. I note that already, in British Columbia, the government has resorted to imposing marriage on the cohabitating because so many men are now actively avoiding it thanks to previous state interventions. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the more intelligent homosexuals, especially of the male variety, eventually come to regret their campaign to mock the institution when they find themselves being "married" against their will by the state.
In fact, under the BC law, many college roommates would find themselves inadvertently married, having passed the required two-year cohabitation limit.
Oscar-winning actor Jeremy Irons was today embroiled in an extraordinary row after he suggested that same sex marriage could lead to fathers marrying their own sons to avoid inheritance tax. In an interview with the Huffington Post, Mr Irons made a series of highly inflammatory statements and even denied that such a union would be viewed as incestuous as 'men don't breed.'Hey, if nothing makes God happier than when two individuals - as we were informed with great emphasis, ANY two individuals - love each other, then they should be able to "marry", right? Are a man and his son somehow not included in "any"? Or a mother and her daughter? Grandfather and grandson? I'd always assumed that the primary problem was that once it is decided that marriage could not longer be limited by sex, obviously it could not justly be limited by quantity either. But, as Irons has correctly perceived, merely removing the sex limit is sufficient to produce a truly perverse set of incentives.
After all, if we are to accept the idea that homosexuality is no longer immoral, what grounds do we have for not similarly declaring incest to be morally acceptable as well. The homosexual lobby has not answered this question with anything but rhetoric and faux outrage, mostly because they have no answer for it.
The fact is that two men or two women cannot ever marry because marriage is a particular relationship between a man and one or more women. The various governments can pass all the laws declaring fish to be fowl they like, but the chromosomes remain. Government didn't create marriage. Government doesn't define marriage.
The state is going to have to get out of the marriage business if it doesn't wish to impair the institution entirely. I note that already, in British Columbia, the government has resorted to imposing marriage on the cohabitating because so many men are now actively avoiding it thanks to previous state interventions. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the more intelligent homosexuals, especially of the male variety, eventually come to regret their campaign to mock the institution when they find themselves being "married" against their will by the state.
In fact, under the BC law, many college roommates would find themselves inadvertently married, having passed the required two-year cohabitation limit.
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1 – 200 of 312 Newer› Newest»It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the more intelligent homosexuals, especially of the male variety, eventually come to regret their campaign to mock the institution when they find themselves being "married" against their will by the state.
If you read about the anti-gay-marriage marches in France - and who ever thought France, of all places, would have a huge backlash against gay marriage - you'll see that they had a number of gays, even gay atheists, marching with them.
It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the more intelligent homosexuals, especially of the male variety, eventually come to regret their campaign to mock the institution when they find themselves being "married" against their will by the state.
Hell, Justin Raimondo has been making these same arguments for years as part of "the gay case against gay marriage."
Well, this is going to end well...
Abraham in heaven is now pleading with God to spare the USA if there are even fifty righteous people in it.
Oh boy. This article is so full of win I don't know where to start.
Irons' comments were savaged by activists. A spokesman from Stonewall, a gay rights charity, told The Independent: 'Few people will agree with Jeremy Irons’ bizarre "concerns" about equal marriage.'
Feminist news website Jezebel denounced Mr Irons' comments as 'completely gross' and urged him to 'shut up'.
Many Twitter users also expressed disappointment in the former star of Brideshead Revisited and The Lion King - @LilEsBella wrote: 'Jeremy Irons just made me sick to my stomach. Disgusting logic.'
These rabbit responses are hilarious in their transparency. Appealing to group perception, visceral emotional responses and demands with no substantial basis, and to top it all off the most perfect rabbit phrase ever written: "Disgusting logic". Ha!
As for Jeremy Irons, I've always liked the guy as an actor but I never knew his politics. I may have to check out the 'Borgias' now (maybe that's the real purpose of the article, eh?) although I doubt it will be any more historically faithful than 'Rome' or 'Spartacus'.
The guy seems like a hoot, though. Check this out:
He also caused outrage when he compared smokers to disabled people, saying that bans on smoking indoors were 'a terrible bullying of a minority that cannot speak back'.
The former star of Die Hard with a Vengeance went on to say that smokers should be given the same protection as 'handicapped people and children'.
Hell yeah, I am SO on board with this!
I look forward to marrying my entire family, several of my neighbors, my dog, smoked bacon, a case of Guinness, and the ghost of Andy Kaufmann.
It is true love. We will all honeymoon in Branston.
Ah, unintended consequences - the liberal's old arch-nemesis.
holy shit! the BC law doesn't even require cohabitation; just get a girl preggers and you're married! on 1 hand, can we implement this in Detroit? On other hand, WTF does govt get off establishing contracts unilaterally, perhaps against wishes of BOTH parties?!?!
I had no idea Irons felt this way. Good for him for raising these points.
I will just point out however that finding loopholes for inheritance taxes is always a good thing.
On other hand, WTF does govt get off establishing contracts unilaterally, perhaps against wishes of BOTH parties?!?!
It's the quantity conundrum, Geoff. Since it can impose or destroy a contract against the will of one party, why not against the will of two?
I've been living with my dog for 14 years.
Uh oh!
But, as Irons has correctly perceived, merely removing the sex limit is sufficient to produce a truly perverse set of incentives.
And I though I was good at puns. I remember his role from the most excellent movie, "The Mission".
Bunnies don't seem to like Irons Logic.
Yet as I keep trying to point out to the various Roman Catholic warrens, the moment you allow that a couple needs a permit from the state/Caesar to participate in a sacrament, you have already lost the argument. (There was Bob Jones university that lost its 501c3 because it didn't believe in interracial marriage - from the mid 1980s - the best thing that could happen to Christendom is for Caesar to finally bitch-slap them into their senses so they leave his bed).
Our Lord said "Do not give holy things to dogs, do not cast your pearls before swine - they will trample them and attack you". I wouldn't insult dogs by comparing them to government, but we do seem to be having problems finding our way out of the sty.
Regarding polygamous marriage: In Sweden the youth part of the Green party want to add it to the party platform and the center party just discussed the issue (but didn't dare add it to the party platform). It's just a matter of time... From what I gather they just need to wait until a large enough portion of the older people die off, currently they are too scared to go for it though.
Gays marrying gays and spreading aids and other diseases = totally normal and heroic
Breeders marrying their same sex offspring for tax benefits = truly perverse
Got it
There were common law marriages before (Dalrock has some good points about bastardry laws today). But there was a much narrower definition of what it took to become married.
Meanwhile Florida is trying to modify alimony standards.
If you insist on bringing pagan / feminist culture into the church, and don't oppose it outside, you will get a pagan society, pagan laws, and the consequences thereof. Government which does more than keep the peace is engaged in persecution. It always begins persecuting those with the smallest voice to the cheers of others who oppose that group and are unconcerned about tyranny as it is tyranny in their favor. For the moment.
The black and white knights should ally to slay the dragon, not to see who is better at convincing it to eat the other knight. The dragon has a voracious appetite so will eventually eat both.
Dr. Robert Gagnon has been making this exact argument for years.
My new retirement plan: Impregnate Katy Perry in British Columbia.
What makes this so particularly agitating for the Left is that they already demolished (ignored, actually, in the rabbit fashion) the very arguments they are now using against incestuous homogamy.
I've done this on Facebook, and it's so sweet to taste their tears over their self-inflicted wounds. I just squeeze the lemon over their wound; I find that this increases the torrent of tears. Delicious.
When life hands you lemons...
In fact, under the BC law, many college roommates would find themselves inadvertently married, having passed the required two-year cohabitation limit.
That would sure make a cluster out of a fraternity house.
"In fact, under the BC law, many college roommates would find themselves inadvertently married, having passed the required two-year cohabitation limit."
Common Law in Alabama has no time requirement. In Alabama... if you present yourself as married... and both parties intend to be married.. you are married.
I can't tell you how much I love that.
"After all, if we are to accept the idea that homosexuality is no longer immoral, what grounds do we have for not similarly declaring incest to be morally acceptable as well."
We don't need to. All we need to get you believe is that gays are well-adjusted people, with great fashion sense and a wonderful sense of humor.
Unlike those dirty, dirty hillbilly Mormons, who nobody likes. How many Mormons are in Hollywood?
What kind of wedding would you see for a hillbilly marrying his first cousin? Meanwhile ...at our gay weddings ...you'll see fashion, camp, flowers matched with napkins, incredible taste ... hip musicians ... gay guys dancing like gay guys do...which we KNOW you all love.
Gay marriage is the NEW NORMAL. Deal with it.
Government which does more than keep the peace is engaged in persecution
Fucking A.
The former star of Die Hard with a Vengeance went on to say that smokers should be given the same protection as 'handicapped people and children'.
Hell yeah, I am SO on board with this!
Makes sense to me. If you regularly make the decision to pull carcinogens into your lungs, you probably have a mental handicap of some sort.
The other half of my argument is that we should legalize the Roman Catholic (or whichever denomination of the couple's) definition of marriage so as to require a standard pre-nuptuial agreement that would ban divorce (except under extreme circumstances, usually involving felonies on the part of the other, and remarriage in any case) and the other provisions which are spoken in the vows. Basically it would be scorched earth for the one dissolving the marriage - no kids, and owes support and alimony for life. But that will never be a valid contract despite respecting all forms of marriage. The only form of marriage that will never be permitted by the state is the sacramental marriage Jesus spoke of and most Christians adopted until recently.
So what if the state imposes marriage on some cohabitors, they will just file for no-fault divorce - every 2 years if needed.
If polygamy becomes legal do the Mormons recant and go back to the way they were? What about the welfare laws? Suddenly you have homes that are getting checks for 15 kids. NBA players and rappers would be touring the country with harems of ho's. This shit makes my teeth hurt.
Kind of pointless, this whole push for gay marraige. If sexual orientation has its roots in biology, then eventually they'll pin it down and be able to test for it before the baby is born. Eventually they'll even develope a 'cure' for it. How many parents are going to have such a baby if they can abort or even change it? Dam few. I predict homosexuality will all but vanish in a hundred years.
Cohabitation first is new norm for unmarrieds with kids
The guys that I know who choose to cohabitate do so to avoid the legal entanglements of marriage. All of them have either been previously married and divorced or have lived with a woman previously who took advantage of them.
I think there will be a lot of surprised people when the government retroactively marries them in the legal sense. I'd assume the banning of paternity tests will come along about the same time.
My new retirement plan: Impregnate Katy Perry in British Columbia. Reminds me of the old Steve Martin joke: How to make a million dollars and not pay taxes on it. Step1) Make a million dollars. Step2) Don't pay taxes on it.
Three good points from Steve Sailor:
1. "Gay marriage" didn't exist until 1994, when the media invented the whole concept out of thin air: http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/03/gay-marriage-in-ngram.html
2. "Ultimately, though, polgyamy has a secret weapon: polygamous immigrant Africans." http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/03/why-polygamy-will-eventually-be.html
3. Is homogamy the end of marriage ...or just the end of WEDDINGS? "So legalizing single-sex marriage isn't likely to prevent the next gay venereal epidemic. Yet, will gay weddings destroy society? Overall, I'm not terribly worried. Still, the fervor with which some gay grooms will pursue the perfect wedding will make straight men even less enthusiastic about enduring their own weddings. The opportunities for gays to turn weddings into high-camp farces are endless. For example, if two drag queens get married, who gets to wear white? And anything that discourages straight men from marrying would be widely harmful. While most straight guys eventually decide that being married is fine, the vast majority find getting married a baffling and punitive process. (You may have noticed that while Modern Bride magazine is now over 1,000 pages long, there is no Eager Groom magazine.) About the only comment a straight man can make in favor of his role is that at least it's a guy thing … not a gay thing. But for how much longer?" http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/03/ross-doutha-t-writes-yet-for-argument.html
@TontoBubbaGoldstein
Haha! Just tell the IRS "I forgot!"
(That joke wasn't quite as funny when Timmy Geithner told it, though.)
So what if the state imposes marriage on some cohabitors, they will just file for no-fault divorce - every 2 years if needed.
Because of the cash and prizes.
@Obvious: Obviously you don't live in the city. Right? After all, that would be choosing to regularly pull carcinogens into your lungs.
Don Imus says Jesus may have been gay...
http://huff.to/16spDd3
Do as your Lord commands...
Polygamy legal? Ah, splendid. From what I understand, your women only find twenty percent of men attractive. Should they be permitted to wed married men, this means that three or perhaps four of five of you mortal men will likely become "incels".
I see much opportunity in a population of frustrated virgins. Much.
Gay marriage is the NEW NORMAL. Deal with it.
Fabulous.
@ JartStarr
Ban paternity testing will lead tp murder of wives who cuckolded. and like Chris Rock talking about OJ murdering his wife:"I'm not sayin it was ok... but I unnastan"
Why isn't A. Man or Tad here defending incest?
Pedophilia is now a sexual orientation in CA:
http://www.rethinksociety.com/government/pedophilia-is-a-sexual-orientation-under-ca-bill/
Were can I order up some child brides now?
"Pedophilia is now a sexual orientation in CA"
Pederasty has a historical precedent.
Ask Plato.
"The fact is that two men or two women cannot ever marry because marriage is a particular relationship between a man and one or more women."
Who says so? The same people that say that Blacks aren't people? The same people that say that mixed race marriages aren't marriages? The same people that say the earth is at the center of the universe?
There is nothing in this world or in history that conclusively determines that marriage is only between opposite sexes. As a country or state or community, marriage can be defined in the way the country or state or community desire.
"I look forward to marrying my entire family, several of my neighbors, my dog, smoked bacon, a case of Guinness, and the ghost of Andy Kaufmann."
You'll have to get consent from them all first. Good luck with that.
Just about the last line re roommates, those roommates would need to be involved in a sexual relationship with each other. Amicus C
Why isn't A. Man or Tad here defending incest?
Do gay men usually get along with Dad?
"There is nothing in this world or in history that conclusively determines that marriage is only between opposite sexes."
Troll warning... Weasel word alert: "conclusively"
"As a country or state or community, marriage can be defined in the way the country or state or community desire."
Weasel word: "community"
PS: A. Man - should polygamy be legal or not? Yes / NO?
Just about the last line re roommates, those roommates would need to be involved in a sexual relationship with each other. Amicus C
Or willing to lie about it. You know, like if she wants alimony or something.
There is nothing in this world or in history that conclusively determines that marriage is only between opposite sexes. As a country or state or community, marriage can be defined in the way the country or state or community desire.
There is nothing in this world or in history that conclusively determines that fish are only aquatic animals. As a country or state or community, fish can be defined in the way the country or state or community desire.
You can always identify the Lefty. He thinks government determines reality.
"Who says so? The same people that say that Blacks aren't people?"
How predictable. Rather than attempt a rebuttal, go for the argumnetum ad slanderum.
"There is nothing in this world or in history that conclusively determines that marriage is only between opposite sexes.'
Except History itself, that is.
A. Man -
should polygamy be legal or not? Yes / NO?
should incestuous marriage be legal or not? Yes / NO?
what do you believe should be the age of consent for marriage?
"PS: A. Man - should polygamy be legal or not? Yes / NO?"
Sure. Why not. Doesn't impact me. Makes others happy. Problem?
The same people that say that Blacks aren't people? The same people that say that mixed race marriages aren't marriages? The same people that say the earth is at the center of the universe?
Name the people who believe all of these interesting things--and I do mean all of them. And you will be expected to prove it up.
There is nothing in this world or in history that conclusively determines that marriage is only between opposite sexes.
Prove this.
Very refreshing after all the Jim Carrey stuff. Linked and commented on here:
http://ex-army.blogspot.com/2013/04/gay-marriage-verrry-intereshtink-but.html
A. Man,
Should incestuous marriage be legal?
"You can always identify the Lefty. He thinks government determines reality."
As the body of representatives of the people who make the laws, it does determine legality, however.
You don't have to agree with gay marriage. You don't have to like gay marriage. You don't have to engage in gay marriage. You don't have to like marriage at all. But you can't get around the fact that has it has in the past, today the definition of what constitutes a marriage is changing.
Sure. Why not. Doesn't impact me. Makes others happy. Problem?
I believe this fellow may be a eunuch. It would explain why he gets so terribly offended when people mention the hallmarks of manhood.
You don't have to agree with gay marriage. You don't have to like gay marriage. You don't have to engage in gay marriage. You don't have to like marriage at all. But you can't get around the fact that has it has in the past, today the definition of what constitutes a marriage is changing.
If you use both hands when you type, you will be able to construct intelligible sentences.
I think Vox suggested that this might happen:
ADA withdraws from case after DA is killed
According to my college sociology prof (back in 1986) inheritance issues were long a big driver in laws governing marriage.
So Irons isn't saying anything new, but kudos that he brought it up.
There is nothing in this world or in history that conclusively determines that marriage is only between opposite sexes. As a country or state or community, marriage can be defined in the way the country or state or community desire.
You'll have to get consent from them all first. Good luck with that.
But you can't get around the fact that has it has in the past, today the definition of what constitutes a marriage is changing.
Slow down, I'm trying to keep track here.
So "marriage" doesn't mean anything at all, since it can be defined to mean anything by any community. Except that it has to involve consent from all parties involved - that part is set in stone. Except that the definition of marriage is changing, implying that it was something in particular and is now becoming something else...
...and this whole thing makes it sound like the objective in your understanding is not for gay people to be able to marry per se but to redefine the concept of "marriage" so that it no longer means what it once did. Just my perception, could be wrong.
There is nothing in this world or in history that conclusively determines that marriage is only between opposite sexes.
Provide three historical examples of a society that had same sex marriage as an institution.
funny stuff. I am so far ahead of most in such thoughts. I roomed with one guy who was a very good friend, girl friends aside, for over two years. we fished, hunted and had many women in our life but the same thing could have been said about us. we never did try any of the scams that exist today.
OK, I had that wrong. It was a Federal Attorney, not an ADA, who quit after the local DA was killed.
"The sisters claimed that this would mean the surviving sister would have to sell the house to pay the inheritance tax. Their case, argued on their behalf in the European court by David Pannick QC, was that this was discriminatory as, if they were married or in a civil partnership they would be exempt from the tax. The government contested the claim, which would have had huge tax revenue ramifications had it succeeded" Link
Gay marriage is the NEW NORMAL. Deal with it.
Yes, it is, which is why I've opted out. Have fun carrying society... if you can.
The biggest effect of recognizing gay marriage is that this government will lose legitimacy in the eyes of millions of people.
But as long as the government is going to attempt to redefine marriage, let's be sure to include polygamy, bestiality, and really future proof this thing by allowing marriage between biologics and non-biologics. It's my right to marry a lawn chair, dammit.
Vox said, "...marriage is a particular relationship between a man and one or more women."
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that marriage is a particular relationship between a man and a woman, but a man may be in more than one marriage at a time? After all, in a polygynous situation, the women are not in a marriage with each other, but each is married to the man. The man could divorce one or the other of the women without affecting his marriage to the other. If the entire relationship was one marriage, then a divorce would break up the entire thing, wouldn't it?
On a broader note, it used to be shocking when a celebrity advocated some form of tyranny. Now it's shocking when one of them says something sensible.
But you can't get around the fact that has it has in the past, today the definition of what constitutes a marriage is changing.
I mean think about it. Say a chick sees this dude piss standing up. She says "Hey, I want to do that too!" So she launches a campaign to legally redefine the phrase "piss standing up" to include all acts of human excretion in any posture or position. The campaign is successful. Then she celebrates because she now has the freedom to "piss standing up"... except she doesn't.
You get what I'm saying? If you have to redefine the thing you covet out of existence in order to acquire it, you haven't really gained anything...
As the body of representatives of the people who make the laws, it does determine legality, however.
So far, so good.
You don't have to agree with gay marriage. You don't have to like gay marriage. You don't have to engage in gay marriage. You don't have to like marriage at all. But you can't get around the fact that has it has in the past, today the definition of what constitutes a marriage is changing.
Yes, it is changing the definition into something that is observably not-marriage.
You get what I'm saying? If you have to redefine the thing you covet out of existence in order to acquire it, you haven't really gained anything...
Ya huh!
Gay marriage isn't the 'new normal'. Stated support for the right may be more popular now, but as for the ceremony and status itself? Even its proponents largely view it, on a personal level, as some adorable ceremony for a minority within a minority. And even for them, it's taken about as seriously as dog weddings are by most people who have been exposed to them: cute, maybe even sweet, but ('trendy' value aside) that's about it.
In fairness, some heterosexual marriages are taken about as seriously - does anyone really put much stock into whatever bond a Kardashian has entered into? - but even among supporters, the reality is nowhere near the ideal. A little like how many liberals, for all their yammering about racism, are often on a personal level pretty goddamn racist.
JD Curtis
That was a very interesting story, thanks for the link. Looks like the court ruled on the issue for now as to not disrupt tax receipts, but no doubt that incestuous "marriage" will be back in the courts as soon as people figure out the tax advantages.
If a man and his son wish to marry in order to avoid inheritance tax, I say go for it. There are many marriages of convenience. This blog is a straw man argument.
How many post menopausal women marry their sons? Probably about the same percentages for men who would marry their sons.
Your argument is silly.
A. Man, I believe you were asked a direct question about whether you would support the legalization of incestuous marriage. As Not Steve and Jartstar asked you a direct question specifically related to the topic at hand, I add my voice to those requesting an answer.
You don't have to agree with infanticide. You don't have to like infanticide. You don't have to engage in infanticide. You don't have to like post-birth abortion at all. But you can't get around the fact that has it has in the past, today the definition of what constitutes infanticide is changing.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/item/14987-planned-parenthood-rep-gives-chilling-testimony-on-post-birth-abortion
In short, Gay marriage is doubleplusgood.
What amusing times, where the "Akbar & Jeff" scenario can go mainstream. It will be entertaining to watch the fustercluck of unintended consequences unfold and the subsequent arbitrary political responses. Homogamy, once combined with polygamy and incest will make a hat trick of hijinks. Imagine the sitcom fodder. Hilarity will ensue.
ERG
So incestuous marriage should be legal?
Didn't Heinlein describe line marriages in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.
I can hear the sound of government revenue sources crumbling.
"Yes, it is changing the definition into something that is observably not-marriage."
Let me correct you here: It's changing the legal definition to some something that is very similar to the past legal definition.
actually had a liberal (Minneapolis, natch) argue with me that as a good Christian she had to back gay marriage. i laughed and asked if she'd ever read, you know, the Bible. i then said as an American i'd fight legislation but accept ot if CA passed prop on gay marriage. But couldn't we agree that this should not be done by the courts?
She said the definition had evolved. I said the law doesn't evolve. You have to change the law. Then she said this wasn't a change.
The nineteenth amendment was the worst one.
I've got twin sons, and we are running to the alter to avoid Uncle Scam's Thievery.
Let me correct you here: It's changing the legal definition to some something that is very similar to the past legal definition.
Except it isn't.
Answer the question.
A. Man,
When will you be providing me with the three historical examples of societies that had same sex marriage?
This past legal definition of marriage as defined by...
Any society at all that you can name would be nice. Any society that is provably worth emulating would be better.
"It's changing the legal definition to some something that is very similar to the past legal definition. "
You go girl..!
There's a fine line between clever and stupid - Spinal Tap
Heh: Flynn Strangely Focused on Legalizing Cousin Marriage.
...When marrying ones own five year old son is it appropriate to use the 'Toys R Us' gift registry?...
""It's changing the legal definition to some something that is very similar to the past legal definition. "
You go girl..!"
Institutions (social, political, personal and otherwise) have changed and evolved on a regular basis. This includes marriage in America. It includes government. It includes the work place and professions.
The fact that you may not like the way an institution is changing does not alter the fact that they can and do change and evolve.
A lot of people didn't like when the institution of marriage allowed interracial unions. A lot of people didn't like it when the institution of the body politic evolved to include women. A lot of people didn't like it when professional baseball changed to include blacks. But all these and others evolved and changed as society accepted the propriety or necessity of changing how these institutions operated and were defined.
Gay marriage is no different. Some find the idea immoral. So what. They lose the battle on this one. Marriage remains largely what it was, yet it will soon come to include same sex marriage and it will recognize that same sex couples can devote themselves to each other, create families and carry on exactly as different sex couples.
In short, Gay marriage is doubleplusgood.
Can you provide not less than two examples from either historical or contemporary societies where gay marriage has been a long-term benefit to those societies?
This comment has been removed by the author.
Giraffe April 04, 2013 2:10 PM
Do gay men usually get along with Dad?
Winner
....When I saw him in that diaper I just knew we'd be together forever!....
"Gay marriage is no different."
Stop discriminating against polygamy and incest, you vile hatemonger.
...Junior will be so happy when I tell him that the minister is one of 'The Wiggles'....
Let me correct you here: It's changing the legal definition to some something that is very similar to the past legal definition.
Please cite when and where marriage was legally defined to include homosexual unions.
...Good news, son! We're Honeymooning in Key West! My other husbands will be joining us...literally....
Marriage gets gamed some presently. But the amount of gaming the system is GREATLY reduced because marriage is sacralized in the eyes of most of the population to a reasonable degree, although less than in the past. Reduce the level of sacralization and you're going to see more gaming of the system. Very few are going to attach any sacralized status to homogamy. Don't be surprised when things we today consider ridiculous gaming of the system become the expected norm in estate & tax planning.
It's humorous to watch A. Man and other homo-leftists cite only 100 years of a dying, degenerate culture as their "proof" ... what's that worth in 5,000 years of civilization?
It's like Amanda Marcotte ranting about how some high school kid's prom proposal to a supermodel is really about "rape" : http://minx.cc/?post=338854
Garbage in, garbage out.
A. Man - what about Rosa Parks, tell us about Rosa Parks and how that relates to "gay marriage"? I'm sure it's mind-blowing stuff you got for us. What about MLK? John Lennon lyrics to quote for us maybe?
PS: Answer my questions...
should incestuous marriage be legal or not? Yes / NO?
what do you believe should be the age of consent for marriage?
Slow down, hoss. Now you're saying that because the definition of concept A changed in some society at some point in the past, it is perfectly acceptable that concept B change as well.
The original issue was the idea that marriage was reverting to a previous definition of marriage that at some point in the past included two men. Not that two men being defined as marriage is okay because we no longer use the word 'whence'.
Please cite historical examples of marriage that included two men. Please give some brief explanation as to why this society is worth emulating.
Forget about just incestuous or polygamous marriages, for those truly are just the tamer consequences of "same-sex" marriage slippery slope.
The really scary stuff to contemplate is that once the door is open to “same-sex” marriage, then not only is there no in-principle objection to incestuous and polygamous marriages, but at the same time, it appears that it will be difficult to argue against consenting polygamous marriages which are simultaneously incestuous (imagine a grand-father marrying all his daughters, grand-daughters, grand-sons, etc.).
But even further to this, it would also appear that necrophilia might be, at least in principle if not in practice, deemed acceptable as a form of marriage. After all, since leftists always assert that my body is my own, and if I grant someone the legal right to use my dead body for sexual purposes (at least for a few hours after death), then what right is it of someone else to tell me what I can and cannot allow to be done to my body as I see it…even if it is just a corpse. After all, I could grant consent and be married just before I die, and then legally allow my “partner” to fulfill whatever desires he/she has once I am gone.
In addition, even bestiality might fit into the new category of marriage. After all, if human beings are nothing more than a species of primate, and if certain other species of non-human primates are deemed worthy of being granted certain human rights (as argued by the Great Ape Project), and also if these non-human primates can communicate consent (as some primatologists argue), then what in principle objection could there be to such a human primate to non-human primate marriage. Perhaps it would never happen in practice, but it seems that it would at least have to be accepted as an in-principle possibility if the right conditions could be met.
RD
The politically correct rarely think these things out to their logical conclusion, though they claim to use logic itself to back up their positions. In fact gay marriage is "right" simply because liberals say it is and because it involves an appropriately oppressed identity.
Using identity is such a manner is how liberals unwittingly side with gay-hating Muslims and the idea of a man marrying his own daughter. Why will anyone be surprised when brothers declare marrying each other a civil right and everyone better get on board or be on the wrong side of history?
Liberals already claim hate speech little different from the logic of the KKK and neo-Nazis to be justice. There in fact is no right or wrong here, or logic, only an identity.
Liberals claim to be all about fair play and justice but in fact they have no idea what either is.
RD, if we follow the Canadian model, you don't even need the consent of the corpse!
A. Man - "A lot of people didn't like when the institution of marriage allowed interracial unions."
Any analogy between same-sex marriage and interracial marriage is a false analogy. Race is 100% heritable, 100% immutable, and primarily non-behavioral conditions. Homosexuality is none of these.
...Are assless Pokemon pajamas an appropriate wedding gift when marrying your own son?...
Don't be ridiculous. I live in British Columbia and am a university student. The new regulations only apply in certain situations, certainly not in the case of students living in a dorm environment. I would ask that you show me the official documents you are referring to, whether they be from the Legislative Assembly, Provincial Government or another official government body. The media reports are making it very clear: this change only applies to cohabitating couples (in a marriage-like relation) living together for over two years.
For your information, I've included a few links (since you don't seem to reference any regarding the British Columbia law).
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/b-c-s-new-family-law-means-big-changes-for-cohabitating-couples-1.1200126
http://www.theprovince.com/life/Common+partners+have+more+rights+than+they+used/8174020/story.html
http://business.financialpost.com/2013/03/20/q-a-b-c-s-negative-option-marriage/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/03/18/bc-common-law-property-rules.html
"The media reports are making it very clear: this change only applies to cohabitating couples (in a marriage-like relation) living together for over two years."
Who is it that ultimately decides if a relationship is or was "marriage-like?"
...Our cohabitation always seemed "marriage-like" to me! Kiss me you big canuck!...
...Would a ball-gag shaped like Kirby be an appropriate wedding gift for a five year old?...
If you're interested, here's some of the official government documents related to the Province of British Columbia's Family Law Act.
Regarding Noah's comment, in the context of the Family Law Act, the Government of British Columbia would put forward such a definition. The Act (which can be accessed at the BC Legislature's Website) should provide more clarification.
http://www.justicebc.ca/en/fam/fla/
http://www.leg.bc.ca/39th4th/3rd_read/gov16-3.htm
http://www.ag.gov.bc.ca/legislation/family-law/acts-explained.htm
http://www.ag.gov.bc.ca/legislation/family-law/regs-explained.htm
Who is it that ultimately decides if a relationship is or was "marriage-like?"
Considering the sad condition of many marriages today, sexless becomes a determining factor.
"Regarding Noah's comment, in the context of the Family Law Act, the Government of British Columbia would put forward such a definition."
Do you agree or disagree with the following: It's up to the courts to decide whether a particular relationship is "marriage-like."
What's so special about 2 years? Sounds like an arbitrary and capricious time frame.
I can't imagine that there's any time frame for cohabitation that's any more defensible as any other for a marriage timer so I'll turn to an institution that's given the world so much, Islam, and suggest that their temporary marriages would work where the government institutes marriage. Kinda like tags for your car, you want to keep the car, you just renew the tags. Make it the same for marriage.
Other than increasing the rate at which gov't is bloating, it would solve all sorts of issues for marriage. [/sarcasm]
In fact, even forget the doors that the new definition of marriage has potentially opened to polygamous-incest marriages or to bestiality and necrophilia counting as possible marriages. For things get really weird when we combine the new definition of marriage with the leftist’s reverence for all religions except Christianity.
After all, say that I believe in reincarnation. Now, my wife dies, but I believe that she has been reincarnated in a baby sheep. I get ten religious holy men to affirm that the sheep bears the soul of my reincarnated wife. I then claim that I still love my wife and that it is my religious right to still be married to her. Does that mean that I could marry the sheep? And if someone objected to this, then—given the new definition of marriage—what in-principle objection could they mount against it?
Or say that I was a New Ager and my gay spouse died, but I believed that his soul still remained in a bottle that I had on my dresser. I also communed with this soul-bottle and it told me that it still wanted to be married to me. Could I then be married to a bottle? Seriously?
Now, for any normal human being, these situations are obviously absurd, but in our brave new world, they appear to be real possibilities. And that should tell us something about where we are headed.
Speaking of incestuous homogamy.
If McRapey could have married himself, he would have. Based on his estimated book contracts, even if he got divorced, he'd settle for less than half.
What is hilarious to me is how the troll is clearly minding his own business when McRapey flies in with his cartoon hammer.
And Timothy, I'm obviously talking about a situation in which there is disagreement between the couple regarding the nature of the relationship they had.
t's up to the courts to decide whether a particular relationship is "marriage-like."
You know that there'll be married couples, men & women, who won't qualify to meet a court mandated qualification.
Imagine some guy who's wife is in a coma, she'll not contribute work or cash to the household, she'll have a different residence (i.e. the hospital), and there'll be no sex. One can easily see her not qualifying as a spouse, so the court will void the marriage and then she'll no longer be covered under her husbands health insurance.
what in-principle objection could they mount against it?
They would have no objection to mounting it at all.
RD,
I doubt most of those issues will come up, but the overarching matter here is that gay marriage is the open rejection of 1000+ years of Christian heritage and a return to paganism. Once the restraints have been removed people revert to their most base pleasures immediately. Take a look at the issue Germany is having with bestiality.
"return to paganism" ...
Pagan gays married?
I know Caligula married his sister, and then his horse. 50 years later, queers like A. Mann were touting equine-gamy as an "evolution" of Roman institutions. Where did horse-marriage go, anyway?
...Would a fur-lined leather pacifier be a good wedding gift for 5 year old boy? What about a matching set?...
I've been living with my dog for 14 years.
Uh oh!
I'm posting this on micro-aggressions! As a trans-special gender neutral I am deeply offended!
I ran over a nest of baby squirrels on my property. Does that make me a widow or a widower?
Pagan gays married?
Modern ones most certain want to.
In ancient times Nero did, but I don't believe there was ever an institution of gay marriage in ancient pagan Rome or Greece. In both Athens and Sparta there was a tremendous amount of homosexuality, and in Sparta there was institutionalized pederasty.
As far as I know, there haven't be any legal cases disputing that definition in the Family Law Act (it's early days yet, but no doubt they'll happen eventually). I'm not a lawyer, but I would say yes. Under Canadian law, the courts (BC Provincial Court, BC Supreme Court, BC Court of Appeals and, ultimately, the Supreme Court Canada) are mandated to interpret government legislation and rule on legal disputes, which should include (as far as I know) the Family Law Act .
"I ran over a nest of baby squirrels on my property. Does that make me a widow or a widower?"
Hahahah. A neat expression of the perceptual trap.
Liberals don't mind imposing morality on a minority as long as the morality comes from them. They say, "Oh, yes. Same-sex couples should be allowed to marry." But should the government put ANY limitations on marriage? Polygamy, polyandry, brother-sister, first cousins, mothers-sons, fathers-daughters, mothers-daughters, fathers-sons, age requirements? Why of, course, we should deny some forms of marriage they say! Don't be ridiculous!
So who decides what minorities get government protection and sanction? Well, anybody but a person who believes in God and the Bible! This argument isn't about homosexuals per se, it is about silencing the Church. That is, those people who believe what God and Jesus said about marriage:
God said:
Genesis 2
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Jesus said:
Mark 10
6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female. 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
"Marriage remains largely what it was, yet it will soon come to include same sex marriage and it will recognize that same sex couples can devote themselves to each other, create families and carry on exactly as different sex couples."
"I ran over a nest of baby squirrels on my property. Does that make me a widow or a widower?"
If you want the Social Security payments, you're a widow.
Marriage is messy and complicated. Just do it like this guy!
http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2013/04/mayor-against-illegal-guns-busted-for-demanding-gay-sex-at-gunpoint-2506168.html
Only try not to get caught!
recognize that same sex couples can devote themselves to each other, create families
Lying Nature Haters.
You Didn't Build That .... child.
"So who decides what minorities get government protection and sanction? Well, anybody but a person who believes in God and the Bible! This argument isn't about homosexuals per se, it is about silencing the Church. That is, those people who believe what God and Jesus said about marriage:
God said:
Genesis 2
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."
People who believe what is said about marriage in the bible are equally able to weigh in on the debate over who should have access to a state-issued marriage license. Your martyr complex unnecessary and unearned. Bible followers are no more entitled than non-bible believes.
Those who dismiss the love between a man and his two loves are hateful cretins. Who can deny them marriage, with all the benefits it entails?:
Do you take your right hand to be your lawfully wedded wife?
I do.
Do you take your left hand to be your lawfully wedding wife?
I do.
I now pronounce you man and hands. You may kiss the brides.
"recognize that same sex couples can devote themselves to each other, create families"
"Lying Nature Haters."
You make no sense. same sex couples are perfectly capable of making and building and caring for families. "Nature" or your view of it has nothing to do with it.
I now pronounce you man and hands. You may kiss the brides.
Men in British Columbia are already married to their hands.
No. They are actually quite incapable of making families. Unless we're also going to redefine 'make'.
No, you mindless heap of protoplasm, they don't make families.
The government "makes" families, not you Bible-thumpers. The stare and/or community also makes "babies" ...decides which live as babies, or die as post-birth embreyos. The NEW NORMAL.
In that case Timothy, I fail to understand your objection to Vox's statement that many college roommates would find themselves inadvertently married. This seems especially true if gender is taken out of the equation, and same sex roommates are treated the same as opposite sex roommates.
I'm broken-hearted because my lifelong dream to build a family with a dwarf clone of Gordon Ramsey died in a badger den, along with the dwarf. His body was discovered by government badger pre-gassers.
...I proposed to my son at Chuck-E-Cheese. He wouldn't say "yes" until I let him stay up late to watch Spartacus with me....
...if they can put a man on the moon and a porn-star dwarf lookalike of Gordon Ramsey in a badger den, surely the government can legalize forced polygamy without disrupting society.
@ A.Man
same sex couples are perfectly capable of making ... families.
When you fart a kid out, let us know.
JartStar
I believe most laws against incestuous marriages stem from issues regarding offspring. I certainly wouldn't want to marry my son, my brother, or my father (let alone my mother), and I would personally find it repugnant. However, if it can be proven that there would be no chance of children, I don't think that I would have much of an argument.
And for those of you mentioning marriage to your family pet or a minor child, that's a non-issue. Neither children nor animals can legally sign contracts, notwithstanding a state's legal age of consent.
"... create families and carry on exactly as different sex couples."
Cause you have to abuse children through denial of a real mother and a real father.
Always back to the abuse of children with these people.
Hey, if it keeps the tax man's filthy hands off of people's inheritance I'm cool with it.
"Nature" or your view of it has nothing to do with it.
I view it as it exists in objective reality. Biological human life reproduces itself via male/female copulation only.
Again, You Didn't Build That. It is not child of that homosexual couple. According to nature, it never has been and never will be.
In can only be so via your Murderous, Raping, Thieving Statist beliefs.
Why is it that when someone claims to be Napoleon, we tell that person he is crazy, but when that man claims to actually be a woman, we believe him?
NotSteve: "The opportunities for gays to turn weddings into high-camp farces are endless. For example, if two drag queens get married, who gets to wear white? "
I can see it now, My Big Fat Greek Gay Wedding. Starring Gordon Ramsay and his dwarf doppleganger. For a sequel, they honeymoon on Cyprus.
but when that man claims to actually be a woman, we believe him?
And that we do not encourage them to seek immediate treatment for the personality disorder that they have. It seems that they must be encouraged to mutilate their bodies.
ERG: Non-issue. In the NEW NORMAL, retarded and deformed babies with genetic defects will be aborted as standard practice. ObamaCare and all.
...I wonder if my five year old would like a ""Teletubbies in Bondage" themed wedding...
bw
If my husband and I adopt, he/she is not my child? If I'm single and I get impregnated through a sperm donor, he/she is not my child? I only have a child if I have sex with a man and give birth?
I would encourage you to look at the Attorney General of British Columbia's website for further clarification. Furthermore, I have not looked at the background documents for this legislation. It is possible they could provide a clearer definition of a 'marriage-like relationship'. If anyone's interested in looking, I would try checking the websites of the Provincial Government and Legislative Assembly.
Noah, my objection to Vox's statement is based on the facts I've seen so far. In reading the media reports and government documents, I have not found any evidence that people living together for over two years (in say a university dorm situation) will automatically be considered to be in a 'marriage-like' relationship and thus subject to the Family Law Act. However, as I said before, I am not a lawyer and would be interested in learning more about the Family Law Act's technical and legal aspects (appendixes, terminology and impact of the previous Family Relations Act).
If my husband and I adopt, he/she is not my child? If I'm single and I get impregnated through a sperm donor, he/she is not my child? I only have a child if I have sex with a man and give birth?
If you need this answered, then how is it possible that you turned on a device to access this website?
Two of the above scenarios above deny the child a father.
Why do refuse to allow the child the necessity that is a father?
Gaywad - if you found out your baby was gay based on genetic testing, what would you do?
More like: What if I found out my baby would end up a criminal, in prison. Would by son suddenly discover he was genetically gay like so many prisoners...then no longer gay when on parole? What about genetic testing to see if my boy likes being "hip" with easy sexual release with no messy relationships with a lady? It's a mystery wrapped in an engima wrapped in expensive Italian loafers.
"If my husband and I adopt, he/she is not my child?"
...If me and my two other husbands marry a twelve year old african orphan boy but then husband number two divorces the african orphan boy but then adopts him, but then the child divorces me... is it ok for us to shower together?....
The fact is that two men or two women cannot ever marry because marriage is a particular relationship between a man and one or more women. Ahha! You have done well my. I have been looking to see if that had... come about. Very good.
As to anything being on the board, with regards to marriage, after they legalize (mandate) homosexual marriage? Was that ever in doubt? I might argue that was the actual goal. It will be the defining divorce of actual marriage (the family really), the government, and the government with it's other moral and ethical foundations.
As to it's true value? They might as well outlaw blue skies or legalize the ability to ignore gravity. It's says something about the state, it doesn't change reality.
"I have not found any evidence that people living together for over two years (in say a university dorm situation) will automatically be considered to be in a 'marriage-like' relationship and thus subject to the Family Law Act."
Vox did not claim that anyone would automatically be considered to be married. As long as there is universal agreement between all affected parties, clearly there is no legal question to be settled. Once disagreement arises, there is the potential for judicial involvement. This law provides the opportunity for one roommate to make a non-frivolous argument that a marriage-like relationship existed, even though the other roommate may deny such. The fact that there was no proof of agreement and consent between the parties is no longer relevant.
The removal of the necessity for consent is a truly evil development, and it's frightening that any Western nation would enact such a law. (Not to pick on BC -- we have some bad ones of our own.)
Conan, I was responding to bw, who stated that the only way for a family to have a child was through copulation.
It is quite possible for children to be raised by one person and turn out perfectly fine.
Hypothetical - If the dad is one who beats the heck out of his kids, is it still better for the mom to stay with the jerk or raise the kids on her own?
Gaywad, you didn't answer the question.
A. Man's Brain - you're a troll
"No. They (gay couples) are actually quite incapable of making families. Unless we're also going to redefine 'make'."
Really? What about adoption? What about IVF. What about surrogates. Your problem seems to be with what constitutes a family, not the word "Make".
Furthermore, to be precise and despite the fact that gay couples can have families, marriage is not dependent on having offspring, adopting, surrogates or children in general.
"If you found out your baby was gay based on genetic testing, what would you do?"
Marry him. Duh!
Where did horse-marriage go, anyway?
Our resident Horse...er...Norse deity should weigh in on this....
Loki!
Where you at, cuz?
ERG,
What you have posed are commonly referred to as a red herring.
Nobody wishes to see a child physically abused. Full stop.
So again, why would you deny a child the necessities of both a loving heterosexual mother and a loving heterosexual father? You can put aside your physical abuse red herring. A child needs the proper love and bonding with parents of both sexes for the most full development, no?
Do you wish to argue that such an arrangement is not the best environment for children? If so, which of the two is irrelevant, the mother or the father? Both?
Once again, why would you wish to deny the child the necessity of both parents?
Don't misunderstand. I'm exited by the NEW NORMAL. Gays were very active with the National Socialist plan evolve society. Worked out for them, in the end.
A.Man:Furthermore, to be precise and despite the fact that gay couples can have families, marriage is not dependent on having offspring, adopting, surrogates or children in general.
Ok, then go get agreement for all TEH GHEYS that they will not seek to bring children into environment that by its very nature denies the child a heterosexual mother and father.
"Do you wish to argue that such an arrangement is not the best environment for children? If so, which of the two is irrelevant, the mother or the father? Both?"
Study after study has show no detrimental impact on children raised within a same sex marriage.
But this doesn't matter anyway because whether a marriage is marriage has nothing to do with whether the couple chooses to raise a child. It's still a marriage. Talk about red herrings.
ERG must be a female, of the vicious feminist variety. They are haters of the traditional family. Anything they want to do is right by virtue of them wanting to do it. They have no responsibility or accountability or brains. As a Leftist, ERG and her type don't care about reality, common sense or anything except getting their way - by hook, crook, or big fat fascist government. They're parasites of everything they hold in utter contempt. They defile all of society with their pernicious self-absorbed lunacy.
The more ERG blathers her justifications for defiling my society, the more she becomes my enemy. Watch out, ERG. You are pushing decent people to extremes. You want to see what decent, God-fearing, peaceful people can do when their traditions, country and future are taken from them? Keep pushing this crap, bitch.
"Ok, then go get agreement for all TEH GHEYS that they will not seek to bring children into environment that by its very nature denies the child a heterosexual mother and father."
To what purpose?
"Gays were very active with the National Socialist plan evolve society"
So were christians.
Conan,
Why would you deny a child the necessity of loving parents? There is no proof that children of gay couples are damaged by having two dads or two moms.
My argument is that as long as the child is loved unconditionally, that he/she is raised to be a functioning human being who can contribute to society (as opposed to a leech who feeds off taxpayer money), it doesn't matter if the parent is a mother, father, heterosexual couple, homosexual couple, or an adoptive parent.
I understand what a red herring is. What I don't understand is why it matters to all of you that two consenting adults who love each other want to marry. Their actions will not harm you or yours.
"The more ERG blathers her justifications for defiling my society, the more she becomes my enemy. Watch out, ERG. You are pushing decent people to extremes. You want to see what decent, God-fearing, peaceful people can do when their traditions, country and future are taken from them? Keep pushing this crap, bitch."
Here we have a perfect example of what the anti-gay conservative christians are all about it seems. Threats, anger, paranoia, violence.
"I understand what a red herring is. What I don't understand is why it matters to all of you that two consenting adults who love each other want to marry. Their actions will not harm you or yours."
Of course it doesn't hurt them or society. Their objection is God says no. And if their god says no, well then it must be for all people.
A. Man,
When are you planning on answering the questions posed I'm this thread?
Gay marriage is the new normal
This requires redefining "normal".
As to polygamy, the cock-carousel might equally be termed the "marriage-go-round" given the flexibility of definition.
The old paradigm of "find a spouse that will be good for your mutual children, marry, do what comes naturally, raise the resulting children to think" is nearly gone.
Genetic testing can tell me that my son will be guranteed to stick his wang in a dude's bum exclusivley, , or take it up the pooper, no matter what? Science...amazing stuff. Next you will tell me Science(TM) is predicting global warming...
PS: Christians say crazy stuff like "live by the sword, die by the sword." Queers it SA realized it too late.
A.Man,
You have offered no proof for you assertions that children are fine in gay environments. Your word a single study or two by pro-gay activist researcher with agendas is useless to boot.
It is up to you to prove why children should be denied a hetero mother and father. Proof, evidence, facts. Not naked assertions with an appeal to some not authoritative authority.
Why should children be denied a loving hetero mother and father?
@Nate:
Common Law in Alabama has no time requirement. In Alabama... if you present yourself as married... and both parties intend to be married.. you are married.
I can't tell you how much I love that.
I related this to my spouse and she made a correction [I assume its correct. We live in north AL]
In Al there is no time limit. There are three requirements:
1. You must live at the same address.
2. You must be using the same checking/bank account.
3. You must be presenting yourselves as a 'couple' whether or not you tell folk you are married.
Interesting...yes?
But, does it rise to the level of chilli?
ERG: Why would you deny a child the necessity of loving parents? There is no proof that children of gay couples are damaged by having two dads or two moms.
No, that does not cut it and won't fly.
You wish to deny the natural order and healthiest environment for the care and development of children.
You must show a reason why someone should be denied the fundamental right to a have a loving hetero mother and father.
Why should a child be denied this environment?
A. Man is a BIGOT. Notice how he yelps about "couples" ....supporting two-ness over multiple-ness marriage is like racism, man.
Anonagain
Wow - I haven't said anything hateful or harmful to anyone (well, I did say one person was a troll). You haven't responded to any of my statements with logic or reason. I'm not pushing my views on you. I'm not pushing to force you or yours to marry anyone you don't want.
Your vitriol speaks more about you, doesn't it?
If a marriage is between a man and any number of women, then why can't a man get married to zero women?
A. Freak, you are the ones pushing your faggotry on society, whether it likes it or not. You are the ones who don't give two craps about offending anyone, their beliefs, their traditions. The Faggot Agenda uses threats, anger, paranoia, and violence to force their perversions on everyone else. You disgusting maniacs would defile all of society for the perversions of 2% of the population.
Yes, your vile pinhead will be on a pike when people get fed up with this garbage. And believe me, they're getting very fed up with. It's not violence, it's self-defense. There is no co-habitation with evil.
Point and shriek all you want. YOU are the aggressor SOB.
Your vitriol speaks more about you, doesn't it?
Keep it up, bitch. You will see much more than vitriol. And it will be your doing.
"
Why should children be denied a loving hetero mother and father?"
Study after study show that children raised in a same sex household are equally well adjusted as those in opposite sex households. You may not like the sound of this, but it's true and none of your "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" form of comments change that.
A. Man tell us more what "studies" say? Same studies which talk about gays having higher suicide /drug use / lower life expectancy? Can you psychoanlyze this comment for us while you are at it? Are you wearing a white dress on your fab wedding day??
"fundamental right to a have a loving hetero mother and father."
No such thing.
A.Man:Study after study show that children raised in a same sex household are equally well adjusted as those in opposite sex households. You may not like the sound of this, but it's true and none of your "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" form of comments change that.
You are avoiding the issue at hand. Quit dodging, and answer the question. Quit appealing to unauthoritative authorities. Stop with the red herrings, and answer the question.
For both you and ERG:
Why should a child be denied the environment of a loving hetero mother and father?
Study after study show that children raised in a same sex household are equally well adjusted as those in opposite sex households.
Please list give links to 7 studies since, "Study after study" means there's a lot and should be simple to find.
"A. Freak, you are the ones pushing your faggotry on society, whether it likes it or not."
Every poll and survey appears to show that society generally doesn't mind homosexuals. And it now appears that a majority of society don't mind gay marriage. So, there's that.
Studies say A. Man never answered a few direct questions. Studies say Vox should kick his queer ass out of here. Science says Tad McHomo will be back under another fake name (says the guy with another fake name)
A.Man:
No such thing.
Your denying of such is yet another dodge.
Answer the question
"Keep it up, bitch. You will see much more than vitriol. And it will be your doing."
The man clearly possesses new technology enabling him to reach through a computer screen. Please, do share.
Answer the questions, A Man. And start answering them when they are asked.
BTW A. Man, I know you have a lot being thrown at you, but you still haven't answered my question:
Should incestuous marriage be legal?
Conan - natural? You do realize that homosexual activity occurs among many mammals, don't you? That would be natural.
If you can guarantee that ALL children are born to loving heterosexual parents, then I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Until that time, why would you deny a child a loving environment?
Polls say A. Man has no such studies. The community / government says he is honest as an SA man is in the shower ("Heil Hitler! No comrade, I von't try anything if you drop the soap in the shower...")
"Why should a child be denied the environment of a loving hetero mother and father?"
They shouldn't for the same reason they should not be denied the environment of a loving set of gay parents. But some are denied one and some are denied the other because we can't choose our parents.
"Should incestuous marriage be legal?"
Sure.
So who is Gaywad? It sounds like Daniel to me.
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