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Monday, April 08, 2013

RIP Margaret Thatcher

The Iron Lady is dead at 87:
Baroness Thatcher, Britain's first woman prime minster, has died after suffering a stroke at the age of 87. Her children Mark and Carol Thatcher announced that their mother Baroness had died peacefully following a stroke this morning.
I had the privilege of meeting her once. In my youth, I considered her a great and courageous leader of a nation in decline. I now consider her to be one of history's tragic figures, who through naïvety and an inclination to take words at face value, betrayed the country she loved and sold its sovereignty for nothing more than empty economic promises. In light of how the European Common Market has finally revealed itself to be the fascistic, anti-democratic union the skeptics always believed it would become, one will read few sadder words in an autobiography of a world leader than these:

"We had to learn the hard way that by agreement to what were apparently empty generalizations or vague aspirations we were later held to have committed ourselves to political structures which were contrary to our interests.”
– Lady Margaret Thatcher, “The Downing Street Years”

Dr. Sean Gabb, a UK libertarian, has more on Thatcher's legacy, which is considerably different than you will likely glean from the conservative paeans you will be seeing in the Republican media today.

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137 Comments:

Anonymous Salt April 08, 2013 8:41 AM  

R.I.P.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 8:58 AM  

Tragic indeed. Yet for her faults she is still a couple standard deviations better than what is in power today.

Anonymous JartStar April 08, 2013 9:14 AM  

R.I.P. Mrs. Thatcher. She and Reagan dominated the 80s.

Anonymous GI Joel April 08, 2013 9:14 AM  

Two things you'll note about this quote. One is she learned. Second is she recognized these things were contrary to her interests.

Everyone makes mistakes. Even Vox does, I'm guessing. The key is recognizing and learning. Very few politicians will ever admit a mistake ...

Anonymous Stilicho April 08, 2013 9:27 AM  

In my youth, I considered her a great and courageous leader of a nation in decline. I now consider her to be one of history's tragic figures, who through naïvety and an inclination to take words at face value, betrayed the country she loved and sold its sovereignty for nothing more than empty economic promises.

She was both. Such is human nature.

Anonymous The CronoLink April 08, 2013 9:39 AM  

Requiescat in Pace

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 9:52 AM  

"Everyone makes mistakes. Even Vox does, I'm guessing. The key is recognizing and learning. Very few politicians will ever admit a mistake ..."

yes. But everyone does not make mistakes that literally flush the sovereignty of a nation that was not so long ago the world's foremost empire down the toilet.

Anonymous Curlytop April 08, 2013 9:59 AM  

Stilicho: She was both. Such is human nature.

Agreed.

Thatcher and Reagan. Two leaders that shaped my views early on about what a leader was supposed to be. Both tragic figures imo.

When people argue about the effectiveness of women leaders, Thatcher's name always comes up. She was the gold standard. However, currently I can't think of another female leader that even remotely compares to the lady?

Anonymous Orion April 08, 2013 10:01 AM  

In politics, unless your power base is unassailable (and that is more rare than you think for the politicians that aren't crooked), you always have to examine any proposal and consider the worst case scenario. Thatcher failed to do so with the EU, lost power, and saw Labor and her own party acquiesce to the idiocy that was lying in wait for the EU. That was her failing. Few plan for the worse, fewer do so consistently.

Anonymous Mr. Pea April 08, 2013 10:05 AM  

You think she didn't know? And remember, Reagan... er, wait... Ollie gave us COG. And here we are. I am sure it is all an accident.

Anonymous TheExpat April 08, 2013 10:05 AM  

The only thing worse than naive trust (blind faith) on the part of the people is naive trust on the part of the leaders.

I liked Thatcher as well, but it was indeed a tragic mistake.

Anonymous RINO April 08, 2013 10:09 AM  

However, currently I can't think of another female leader that even remotely compares to the lady?

Hillary.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza April 08, 2013 10:11 AM  

How sad that death is part of life. Rest in peace.

Anonymous Curlytop April 08, 2013 10:17 AM  

@ RINO April 08, 2013 10:09 AM
However, currently I can't think of another female leader that even remotely compares to the lady?

Hillary.


LOL! How could I possibly forget the ever competent Mrs. Clinton: the smartest woman in the world! Course, notice that I said "lady" and I don't think that applies in this case.

Anonymous Other Josh April 08, 2013 10:18 AM  

A good woman. A good leader. Good character. She did make a tragic mistake, but what human being doesn't? We are all bound to fail in one way or another.

Globalization looked much newer, shinier, and promising in the 1980's. After 30 years, a growing number of people recognize it for the scam that it is... but it's taken 30 years!

Anonymous Mr. Pea April 08, 2013 10:26 AM  

Mistakes remind me of... I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men. - Woodrow Wilson

HONESTLY! I didn't KNOW!

Anonymous ZhukovG April 08, 2013 10:26 AM  

I was stationed in the UK during the Falklands War. Back then the UK was still a European nation with unarmed cops occasionally visible in a still safe London. I remember that we thought that between Reagan and Thatcher we had the dawning of new Anglo-American golden age....

Ah, the foolishness of youth.

Anonymous Orion April 08, 2013 10:27 AM  

I need to dig up the book written by one of the early Reagan advisers, David Stockman, titled something along the lines of the triumph of politics. Stockman seems to be coming back into the fringes of the media after being exiled for years by the "conservatives" and Neocons running the Republican party. If he hadn't been thrown out there may have been some different results from the Reagan administrations' economic policies.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 10:29 AM  

I don't get this... "Sure she drove the car off the cliff..." but she was a good woman! She was a good leader!

...

SHE DROVE THE CAR OFF THE CLIFF!!!



Imagine a Steelers owner... who sold the team to Jerry Jones... and Jerry then turned around and used them for a development team for the Cowboys.

That's how bad Thatcher screwed up people.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein April 08, 2013 10:32 AM  

Hillary

Thanks for playing.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein April 08, 2013 10:33 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous JartStar April 08, 2013 10:36 AM  

RINO beat me to Hillary, but when she wins in 2016 she will be a better leader than Dubya or Obama. In fact her policies will be much more tame as she and Bill are political pragmatists and not ideologues.

Anonymous Curlytop April 08, 2013 10:39 AM  

Going with your analogy, Nate. That would be assuming that Thatcher was the one driving the car. Personally, I think Thatcher and by extension Reagan were more like hood ornaments.

*this isn't a judgment on their intellect more that they did not have the power that people give them credit to having. No one person does and Thatcher was a useful tool.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 10:40 AM  

Hillary...not an ideologue...right...

Anonymous ZhukovG April 08, 2013 10:42 AM  

I dunno, Bill strikes me as a pragmatist (and in comparison to every President since him, a likable rogue). Hillary strikes me as an idealist, determined to save America from the vast right wing conspiracy.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 10:42 AM  

"RINO beat me to Hillary, but when she wins in 2016 she will be a better leader than Dubya or Obama. In fact her policies will be much more tame as she and Bill are political pragmatists and not ideologues."

Hillary isn't an ideologue???

my God... you people have short memories... or you're very young.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 10:44 AM  

Is it white knighting if she's old and dead?

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 10:45 AM  

Going with your analogy, Nate. That would be assuming that Thatcher was the one driving the car. Personally, I think Thatcher and by extension Reagan were more like hood ornaments.

If that's the case, than there's no point in praising them either.

Reagan was an absolute disaster as president, btw. And I know the damned boomers worship the man, but facts are facts.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 10:47 AM  

Is it white knighting if she's old and dead?

Vampiric knighting, maybe.

Anonymous VryeDenker April 08, 2013 10:48 AM  

We had to learn the hard way that by agreement to what were apparently empty generalizations or vague aspirations we were later held to have committed ourselves to political structures which were contrary to our interests.”
– Lady Margaret Thatcher, “The Downing Street Years”


I don't mean to divert attention, but that statement was almost verbatim what South Africa's then-president F.W. De Klerk said shortly after CODESA.

Blogger Baloo April 08, 2013 10:49 AM  

Nice post. I've linked to it here:
http://ex-army.blogspot.com/2013/04/margaret-thatcher-r-i-p.html

Anonymous RINO April 08, 2013 10:51 AM  

I guess we're going to find out because no amount of Rubio, Rand, or any combination of magic negroes is going to stop the first female president in 2016.

Anonymous VD April 08, 2013 10:51 AM  

Is it white knighting if she's old and dead?

Yes, if you're a necrophiliac.

Blogger Some dude April 08, 2013 10:53 AM  

Hillary will be the first black republican president

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 10:56 AM  

"Yes, if you're a necrophiliac."

Given your previous comments about the Corpse of Ann Coulter... we are moved to wonder...

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 10:56 AM  

Yes, if you're a necrophiliac.

Did we ever get a ruling on whether those who found Ann Coulter attractive are necrophiliacs?

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 10:58 AM  

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Anonymous Red Comet April 08, 2013 11:04 AM  

Expect a lot of Twitter gloating about this by Britain's various authors, actors, artists, and musicians. The modern equivalent of thousands of Neros fiddling while Rome burned.

Anonymous JartStar April 08, 2013 11:06 AM  

Hillary isn't an ideologue???

my God... you people have short memories... or you're very young.


Compared to Dubya and Obama she's not, and I do remember the Clinton years very well. She's a card carrying liberal, but she has a lot more sense than Obama.

Anonymous Curlytop April 08, 2013 11:09 AM  

Josh April 08, 2013 10:45 AM
Going with your analogy, Nate. That would be assuming that Thatcher was the one driving the car. Personally, I think Thatcher and by extension Reagan were more like hood ornaments.

If that's the case, than there's no point in praising them either.

Reagan was an absolute disaster as president, btw. And I know the damned boomers worship the man, but facts are facts.


Which is why I was damning with faint praise, damn it! ;-)

Anonymous Other Josh April 08, 2013 11:13 AM  

I don't get this... "Sure she drove the car off the cliff..." but she was a good woman! She was a good leader!
...
SHE DROVE THE CAR OFF THE CLIFF!!!

Imagine a Steelers owner... who sold the team to Jerry Jones... and Jerry then turned around and used them for a development team for the Cowboys.

That's how bad Thatcher screwed up people.


Nate. This is every leader. Every leader will screw the people in one way or another. It can be said of any historic leader "they failed the people of their nation when they did __________" - whatever the failure might be. It's the nature of man.

If you were made a national leader... if Vox were made a national leader... if I were... whoever - we'd screw people over just like every other leader since the beginning of time. It's the nature of man.

If a leader is judged based on whether they screwed the people of their country or not... there is no such thing as a good leader. There are only varying degrees of bad leaders.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 11:13 AM  

"Compared to Dubya and Obama she's not, and I do remember the Clinton years very well. She's a card carrying liberal, but she has a lot more sense than Obama."

Dude.

Hillary is a hardcore commie. She is every bit the commie Obama is. Probably more so.

Anonymous Holla April 08, 2013 11:13 AM  

Ding dong, the witch is dead!

Anonymous Other Josh April 08, 2013 11:14 AM  

I just realized I said the word "leader" waaaaaaayy too often in my post. My apologies.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 11:16 AM  

"Nate. This is every leader. Every leader will screw the people in one way or another. It can be said of any historic leader"

No. No. No.

Every leader does NOT totally destroy the sovereignty of their nation. Every leader does NOT fail so horribly that a whole continent is thrown into despotic rule of bureacrats. Without the UK signing on... the EU doesn't happen.

Its like saying, "Wow... Tarp was a bad idea. That's a failure" and then comparing it to... I don't know... NERO.

Anonymous Lana April 08, 2013 11:29 AM  

Why was Reagan an absolute disaster as president?

Blogger kurt9 April 08, 2013 11:36 AM  

Sean Gabb is right. In addition, Thatcher was the first politician to give credence to the global warming scenario. She thought it was a useful tool to promote British nuclear power industry.

Reagan's legacy was the piling on the huge deficits, which ballooned to $100 billion plus per year by 1984. This was due to his defense build-up with which he log-rolled with the congressional democrats to get it passed. Reagan also intensified the war on drugs as well.

Anonymous Stilicho April 08, 2013 11:39 AM  

Ding dong, the witch is dead!

Mexican Munchkins...will wonders never cease?

Anonymous E. PERLINE April 08, 2013 11:41 AM  

Mrs. Thatcher was unusual because she was a conservative, not a particularly strong concervative but a conservative by comparison to other Brits.

There are four British couples retired where I live, and although their background is entreprenuria, they are strong socialists. It would surprise Americans to realize how ingrained Socialism is, in Great Britain. For this reason their fate should not shock us too much.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 11:42 AM  

Why was Reagan an absolute disaster as president?

He exploded the deficit and the debt and signed amnesty into law. And he raised taxes.

Anonymous RINO April 08, 2013 11:45 AM  

He exploded the deficit and the debt and signed amnesty into law.

But Josh, he was just permitting the free movement of people. Why do you hate freedom?

Anonymous Daniel April 08, 2013 11:45 AM  

All right. Skewer me:

Bad leader - Woodrow Wilson

Mediocre leader - Eisenhower

Good leader - Coolidge

Anonymous Daniel April 08, 2013 11:47 AM  

Any leader who expanded the War on Drugs/Terror/Poverty/De-centralization was a bad leader.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 11:49 AM  

But Josh, he was just permitting the free movement of people. Why do you hate freedom?

Because I am an evil fascist.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein April 08, 2013 11:49 AM  

Dude.

Hillary is a hardcore commie. She is every bit the commie Obama is. Probably more so.


You are likely correct. Lotsa folks don't realize that Hillary was a Goldwater Girl in her teens. As a rule ex smokers/drinkers etc are surprisingly more doctrinaire, dogmatic pains in the ass than non smokers/drinkers etc.
I guess an exception would be that Vox is pretty tolerant of us "heathens", as long as we abide by the blog rules.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 11:52 AM  

Coolidge was the only good president of the 20th century.

Nate and I tried to make a list of the top five presidents. We quickly realized that almost all of then were absolutely terrible...and that it would be very difficult to make a list of five that were acceptable...

The list is basically:
Cleveland
Coolidge
Tyler
W.H. Harrison/Garfield
Jackson

Anonymous dh April 08, 2013 11:52 AM  

Nate--

Tragic indeed. Yet for her faults she is still a couple standard deviations better than what is in power today.

I am a true believer liberal-leftist. But, I recognize that there are many successful ways to run a society, and that one of them shares many of the traits that Thatcher espoused.

If she was the 'baseline', and we went only up from there, the world be a better place. Instead, she was a pinnacle of a certain type, and that makes the world a sad place.

Anonymous Gimlet April 08, 2013 11:54 AM  

I remember my first time learning about comment sections and blogging when Reagan died. So many disgusting comments and blog posts from the ugly, disgusting Left. Looking like times have NOT changed...

Anonymous dh April 08, 2013 11:55 AM  

He exploded the deficit and the debt and signed amnesty into law. And he raised taxes.

Not only that, but he made it okay to run a deficit. A structural deficit. On that is never really gone. Obama is of course the worst spender, but second runner up is George W. Bush, followed by George HW Bush, followed by Reagan.

Reagan could have balanced the budget relatively easily, compared with what we have now. But he didn't.

He also piloted spending social security contribution in excess of what was needed at the time for outlays.

Anonymous Tadpole April 08, 2013 11:55 AM  

"Cleveland
Coolidge
Tyler
W.H. Harrison/Garfield
Jackson"

Mostly Democrats. Interesting...

Anonymous dh April 08, 2013 11:57 AM  

Hillary isn't an ideologue???

my God... you people have short memories... or you're very young.


Hillary smacks me as the prototypical politician. The only end is power. The same thing with Bill. When he had to tri-angulate, (i.e. out Republican the Republicans) he would. Easily. Without remorse.

Anonymous dh April 08, 2013 11:58 AM  

Mostly Democrats. Interesting...

Very little in common. I wonder what a line by line comparison of the Coolidge platform would look like up against the 2012 DNC platform would look like.

Anonymous Gimlet April 08, 2013 12:01 PM  

"Why was Reagan an absolute disaster as president? "

Because Jimmy Carter and/or Walter Mondale would have unleashed LIBERTOPIA.

Duh! What are you, a neocon?

Anonymous castricv April 08, 2013 12:02 PM  

While I am inclined to agree with everything in the linked article, perhaps the timing and fairness are a bit off. No Western Politician of any real power in the last 30-40 years has done any better and most have done exceedingly worse. We get these half-leaders and b.s. because as Moldbug says our entire worldview is blurred to reality. In a democracy this will always be the case.

Perhaps give the RINOs and other non-seeing "conservatives" a bit of time to say goodbye to a friend without even we few realists jumping into the revisionist or liberal hate machine for a while.

I read his entire piece and cannot think of one politician at the time who would have done anything too different to be noticeable. Can you? Of course not. Democracy and "stinking thinking" have a momentum and there was no chance of escape. We are still on the same course until we fix the core problems.

And you say fascist, anti-democrtic as if that is an insulting term.....
Had Thatcher and her government actually been any of those things, you would be worshipping at her alter right now.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 12:03 PM  

I remember my first time learning about comment sections and blogging when Reagan died. So many disgusting comments and blog posts from the ugly, disgusting Left. Looking like times have NOT changed...

Wait...anyone who doesn't say nice things about Reagan or Thatcher is a leftist?

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 12:05 PM  

Had Thatcher and her government actually been any of those things, you would be worshipping at her alter right now.

Vox is such a noted fascist, after all...

Anonymous dh April 08, 2013 12:06 PM  

Because Jimmy Carter and/or Walter Mondale would have unleashed LIBERTOPIA.

Regardless of what you think of Jimmy Carter's politics, he was probably the single nicest person in government. He's probably incurably naive, especially since leaving office, but still, a nice guy. And I can't really judge, but he appears to be a committed Christian.

Anonymous Gimlet April 08, 2013 12:07 PM  

"Wait...anyone who doesn't say nice things about Reagan or Thatcher is a leftist?"

I said DISGUSTING. Not "nice" --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rl9Cxc7uZA

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein April 08, 2013 12:11 PM  

The list is basically:
Cleveland
Coolidge
Tyler
W.H. Harrison/Garfield
Jackson



I would include Warren G.....Sure, he was either corrupt as hell or incredibly naive---but he was one of our best presidents. Washington and Jefferson deserve consideration, also. Ike should get cred simply because he warned of the military industrial complex. Reagan may not have been that great....but compared to Carter, Nixon and LBJ, he was a giant.


*WARNING!!!* Now is where I veer off into a weird area... *WARNING!!*

Though I am loathe to give him credit (In fact,I won't....I'll credit gridlock and the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.), Bill Clinton probably had the best presidency.....going back to Coolidge or Harding.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 12:12 PM  

"Mostly Democrats. Interesting..."

Cleveland was from a political group that literally called themselves "Bourbon Democrats".

Equating them with the abomination of modern Democrats is beyond ignorant. Look at the platform. The man veto'd damned near every bill that came across his desk.

Anonymous castricv April 08, 2013 12:14 PM  

Josh, nothing to do with him being a fascist, though I believe anti-democratic does fit (which is great), rather with him liking the end result of Thatcher's imagined fascism/anti-dem. As I think would be the case with most on the right, without them even realizing this.

The sooner you dispose of democracy the better you will be.

Anonymous dh April 08, 2013 12:15 PM  

Equating them with the abomination of modern Democrats is beyond ignorant. Look at the platform. The man veto'd damned near every bill that came across his desk.
You got it. Cleveland was viscerally against the Democrat establishment, even at the time. It is why you rarely hear any democrat saying anything nice about Cleveland.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 12:21 PM  

Though I am loathe to give him credit (In fact,I won't....I'll credit gridlock and the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.), Bill Clinton probably had the best presidency.....going back to Coolidge or Harding.

Agreed. W and Obama have really, really helped the way we remember the Clinton years.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 12:27 PM  

I said DISGUSTING. Not "nice" 

What is your point? No one here has said anything disgusting about either Thatcher or Reagan.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 12:34 PM  

"Agreed. W and Obama have really, really helped the way we remember the Clinton years."

Clinton's years appeared superficially prosperous because of the Tech Bubble and the Housing Bubble.

His presidency made Dubya and Obama look worse... because he was busy shitting the bed.

Anonymous MendoScot April 08, 2013 12:35 PM  

Dr. Sean Gabb, a UK libertarian, has more on Thatcher's legacy, which is considerably different than you will likely glean from the conservative paeans you will be seeing in the Republican media today.

That's about right. She was a large part of my decision to leave the UK, and never return.

Anonymous MendoScot April 08, 2013 12:37 PM  

Dr. Sean Gabb, a UK libertarian, has more on Thatcher's legacy, which is considerably different than you will likely glean from the conservative paeans you will be seeing in the Republican media today.

That's about right. She was a large part of my decision to leave the UK, and never return.

Blogger James Dixon April 08, 2013 12:49 PM  

> Compared to Dubya and Obama she's not...

She every bit the ideologue Obama is. And she's more competent.

> She is every bit the commie Obama is. Probably more so.

Yes.

Anonymous FP April 08, 2013 12:56 PM  

"Compared to Dubya and Obama she's not, and I do remember the Clinton years very well. She's a card carrying liberal, but she has a lot more sense than Obama."

Hilldog, re Benghazi:
"What difference, at this point, does it make?!"

More sense indeed.

Anonymous realmatt April 08, 2013 12:57 PM  

Did you hit that Vox? Spacebunny ain't here yo. You can tell us.

Anonymous zen0 April 08, 2013 1:03 PM  

Other Josh: SHE DROVE THE CAR OFF THE CLIFF!!!

Dude. She was betrayed by evil slimeballs. She knew the single currency would result in the events you see today and she said so:

Margaret Thatcher knew the single currency would devastate Europe

But backers of the European project are today happy to countenance unlimited human suffering in their mission to enforce economic and monetary union. Mrs Thatcher knew this would be the result of their deranged plan, which is why she fought to stop it. Her last battle as prime minister could not have been fought in a greater or more compassionate cause.

Anonymous Matt April 08, 2013 1:10 PM  

Regardless of what you think of Jimmy Carter's politics, he was probably the single nicest person in government.

Nicest-seeming, maybe. He does have a real nasty streak that comes out from time to time. He once killed his neighbors' pet cat with a shotgun - look it up.

Anonymous Red April 08, 2013 1:26 PM  

Thacher and Regan saved progressivism. That's their legacy. It would have been in everyone's best interest to allow the system to fall apart in die in the 1980s and 1990s before the massive 3ed world immigrate importations of the 90s and 2000s. Now instead of having to pick of the pieces from a failed system, we're going to get massive civil wars that the west may not survive. So thanks Thacher and Regan. You all truly were the devil's tools.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein April 08, 2013 1:28 PM  

Clinton's years appeared superficially prosperous because of the Tech Bubble and the Housing Bubble.

His presidency made Dubya and Obama look worse... because he was busy shitting the bed.



Nate, I understand what you are saying. In the case of Obama and Dubya, give 'em credit---they need NO help at looking bad.
I have actually made the argument that Carter was not THAT bad....he reaped the harvest of LBJ and RMN. Perhaps some of his policies were producing "green shoots", if you will, that came to fruition under Reagan. Had the special op in Iran not gone south (hardly the fault of Carter), he may have won a second term and.....

The problem with attributing one's success to luck or timing, is that occasionally you run up on the Mad Hatter. Les Miles will continue to make "stupid" decisions.......yet you will go broke betting against him.

Anonymous VD April 08, 2013 1:28 PM  

Did you hit that Vox? Spacebunny ain't here yo. You can tell us.

Actually, she was there too. It was HAWT.

Ye cats....

Blogger tz April 08, 2013 1:30 PM  

I think the authorities were lax in checking for neurotoxicity in hairspray.

Maybe originally intended for mustached gentelmen to keep anstiff upper lip.

She was responsible for bringing the Abortion holocaust to Britian. May she rest in pieces like her victims.

(One of my pet peeves is Fr. Sirico of the Acton Institute gushing over her apparently few and futile in the light of Brussels' invasiveness attacks on socialism; a Tyrant from below is less evil than one from above).

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein April 08, 2013 1:34 PM  

Nicest-seeming, maybe. He does have a real nasty streak that comes out from time to time. He once killed his neighbors' pet cat with a shotgun - look it up.

You say it like it's a bad thing!

Seriously, if he had warned the neighbor and the cat was on Carter's property, eating his songbirds.....Hell, my respect for Jimmuh just increased.

Didn't he also have to fend off an attack rabbit with a boat paddle whilst fishing?

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 1:49 PM  

" He once killed his neighbors' pet cat with a shotgun - look it up. "

Well there you have it. Carter wasn't all bad after all..

Anonymous Scintan April 08, 2013 1:49 PM  

Why was Reagan an absolute disaster as president?

He wasn't. People around here like to confuse "imperfect" with "evil" and "disaster". Reagan and Thatcher were excellent leaders of their nations, who made mistakes and who were limited by their political systems. Neither has been adequately replaced in all the time since they left power, much to the detriment of both nations.

Anonymous JartStar April 08, 2013 1:56 PM  

Reagan has two huge strikes against him: deficits and amnesty. These two things alone have had lasting repercussions we are still feeling today and will tomorrow. Reagan unintentionally gave the US to the permanently to left in one generation through amnesty.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 2:04 PM  

"Reagan and Thatcher were excellent leaders of their nations, who made mistakes and who were limited by their political systems. Neither has been adequately replaced in all the time since they left power, much to the detriment of both nations."

What a giant load of BS.

Reagan and Thatcher was nothing but talk. Talk. Talk. Talk. And when the chips were down... just like Dubya... they both tucked their tails and ran.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 2:05 PM  

Scintan's defintion of a great leaders: One that says funny conservative things... but doesn't bother to actually do anything conservative.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 2:07 PM  

He wasn't. People around here like to confuse "imperfect" with "evil" and "disaster". Reagan and Thatcher were excellent leaders of their nations, who made mistakes and who were limited by their political systems. Neither has been adequately replaced in all the time since they left power, much to the detriment of both nations.

KERRY COLLINS WAS A GREAT QB BECAUSE LOOK AT HOW BAD VINCE YOUNG WAS!

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 2:09 PM  

Scintan's defintion of a great leaders: One that says funny conservative things... but doesn't bother to actually do anything conservative.

Also funny considering Thatcher's famous quote about needing a woman to get something done.

Also, does this mean W was a conservative? Dude talked a good game about humble foreign policies and no nation building and balancing the budgets...

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 2:16 PM  

"Also, does this mean W was a conservative? Dude talked a good game about humble foreign policies and no nation building and balancing the budgets..."

Yes. By scintan's metric Dubya was an excellent president because he said stuff that could maybe possibly be construed as conservative. Sometimes. Also because he bombed brown people.

Anonymous Mr. Nightstick April 08, 2013 2:28 PM  

Reagan has two huge strikes against him: deficits and amnesty. These two things alone have had lasting repercussions we are still feeling today and will tomorrow. Reagan unintentionally gave the US to the permanently to left in one generation through amnesty.

Add another strike to that list for signing into law the Hughes amendment.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 2:32 PM  

scintan is like chick when it comes to politics. It doesn't matter what someone does... all that matters is what they say.

Blogger JartStar April 08, 2013 2:49 PM  

I have to think that the 80s were a more significant decade than the 90s historically speaking.

Anonymous Anonymous April 08, 2013 2:51 PM  

R.I.P Iron lady...speaking of world leaders, if I wasn't a fan of Putin, I am NOW

Blogger James Dixon April 08, 2013 3:02 PM  

> Reagan has two huge strikes against him: deficits and amnesty.

Add asset forfeiture to that list.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 3:04 PM  

Putin rules.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein April 08, 2013 3:15 PM  

Regarding this performance, I liked it," grinned Putin at a joint news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, adding that it had helped to promote the trade fair.
"I did not catch what they were shouting, I did not even see if they were blondes, brunettes or chestnut-haired ..."


Boobies rule.

Anonymous DonReynolds April 08, 2013 3:21 PM  

I will speak kindly of Mrs. Thatcher on the day of her death. She was a heroic figure and a courageous person. Probably never again will that island nation produce another like her and never before have they so badly needed a thousand just like her. I am saddened by the passing of Mrs. Thatcher in much the same way that I felt with the demise of the former President Reagan....not because I agreed with everything they managed to accomplish but because I am sincerely grateful for what little they did in the face of impossible odds and the opposition of their own closest advisors.

Lord, we are ungrateful and undeserving, can we please have just one more Margaret Thatcher? Amen.

Anonymous DonReynolds April 08, 2013 3:45 PM  

We had to learn the hard way that by agreement to what were apparently empty generalizations or vague aspirations we were later held to have committed ourselves to political structures which were contrary to our interests.”
– Lady Margaret Thatcher, “The Downing Street Years”

VryeDenker..."I don't mean to divert attention, but that statement was almost verbatim what South Africa's then-president F.W. De Klerk said shortly after CODESA."

I agree completely. Leaders of nations try to have some public integrity by complying with treaties and important agreements, while allowing people with no integrity to fill in the blanks and write between the lines. I would like to think things would have worked out much differently if John Vorster had been minister instead of DeKlerk.

(Remember, if Jimmy Carter and Andrew Young both jumped off the Empire State Building....which one would hit the ground first?)

Afrikaaner answer: Who cares?

Anonymous Godwin Rule Invoked April 08, 2013 3:49 PM  

Hitler sucked, thus Stalin was better. Amen.

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 3:50 PM  

Lord, we are ungrateful and undeserving, can we please have just one more Margaret Thatcher? Amen.

To do what, dump the pound for the euro?

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 4:04 PM  

SHE DEFEATED THE COMMUNISTS!!! YAHR!!!!

No retards. She didn't. And neither did Reagan.

Economics defeated the communists.

Just like Economics is defeating John Maynard.

Anonymous Daniel April 08, 2013 4:23 PM  

Economics defeated the communists.

Precisely. However, I don't think of that as closed system, but that the death of communism was accelerated in the 1980s by competing on defense with a somewhat equally insane socialist economic system that had the benefit of not yet having figured out how to fully centralize its economy.

To what degree? Who knows? Was it smart policy on Reagan's part? No way. Was it good politics?

The commies were doomed from the start, and had enough raw resources to beat the hell out of their people for 80-100 years. At its tail end, Reagan further poisoned an economy (the U.S.) thinking, or pretending to think, that he could give it an antidote after those bad old baryshnikovs couldn't keep up with the dosage.

I think it is fair to say that Reagan sacrificed the U.S. economy in spectacular, long-ranging ways in his effort, but I don't think this had zero impact on the CCCP and its collapse.

What it might have got him was the Berlin Wall down during the Bush Administration instead of during the Clinton admin.

Yeah. Pretty good politics.

Anonymous Anonymous April 08, 2013 4:53 PM  

old white guy says....... i disagree with you.

Anonymous Anonymous April 08, 2013 4:54 PM  

by the way, it is vox i disagree with.... old white guy.

Anonymous Anonymous April 08, 2013 4:57 PM  

vox... the comments are a study in how people actually view reality. man, there are alot of non thinkers out there. i have forgotten more than most as i am sure margret thatcher did...... old white guy.

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 5:16 PM  

"Precisely. However, I don't think of that as closed system, but that the death of communism was accelerated in the 1980s by competing on defense with a somewhat equally insane socialist economic system that had the benefit of not yet having figured out how to fully centralize its economy. "

That's the narrative. As history moves along it becomes less and less clear cut.

Anonymous DonReynolds April 08, 2013 5:25 PM  

Nate...."Economics defeated the communists."

You know better than that, Nate.

The Communists are by no means defeated. Hell, they are winning! They figured out they were right from the start. The West will not be defeated by the sword, like the Nazis. The West will be defeated by slowly putting more poison ideas in the water supply. I have been to EAST GERMANY, spent most of 2010 there. Guess what? They are still communists, they just took the damn sign down. Heck, in this country....the media never mentions the word "communist" anymore and if you suggest that Obamba is a "socialist", you are likely to get lynched (depending on the neighborhood). If only Stalin and Mao had only known how easy it truely is to bring this country to its knees without firing a shot. Just imagine. All they needed to do is send more refugees, more high tech H1Bs, more illiterate peons, more non-English speakers, more socialists, more communists (with lots of relatives for chain immigration), more sick people....heck this is easy, and the dumbass American taxpayer will pay for it all!

Anonymous 11B April 08, 2013 5:39 PM  

Reagan has two huge strikes against him: deficits and amnesty. These two things alone have had lasting repercussions we are still feeling today and will tomorrow. Reagan unintentionally gave the US to the permanently to left in one generation through amnesty.

Add another strike to that list for signing into law the Hughes amendment.

Didn't Reagan also have something to do with no-fault divorce?

Anonymous Scintan April 08, 2013 6:32 PM  

What a giant load of BS.

Reagan and Thatcher was nothing but talk. Talk. Talk. Talk. And when the chips were down... just like Dubya... they both tucked their tails and ran.


I always love reading your political takes, Nate. They remind me of me when I was a child of about four and hadn't figured out how life worked,

Blogger James Dixon April 08, 2013 6:40 PM  

> Didn't Reagan also have something to do with no-fault divorce?

I believe he signed it as Governor of California, but I couldn't swear to that under oath.

Anonymous zen0 April 08, 2013 7:05 PM  

Josh repeats disinformation: To do what, dump the pound for the euro?

If you check my previous post, she was not the one who did that. Prime Ministers are not like Presidents and do not have veto power.

When she said " WE had to learn the hard way..." it was the royal "we", meaning "they". "They" being the treasonous slimeballs in her party.

If she wasn't dead or still had her marbles you could expect a sever chastisement for your folly.

Anonymous Loki...........ancient asgardian guy April 08, 2013 7:09 PM  

i have forgotten more than most

Which makes you, of course, such an authoritative source of information.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard April 08, 2013 7:10 PM  

If she wasn't dead or still had her marbles you could expect a sever chastisement for your folly.

Do we speak of the Iron Lady or the Queen of Hearts?

Anonymous Idle Margaret Thatcher April 08, 2013 8:14 PM  

Dennis? Where is Dennis! Make me my G&T, Dennis! The Prime Minister is busy!


"Mum, he's been dead for five years now. And you are not Prime Minister anymore."


Oh. Where's my sandwich? Dennis?

Anonymous zen0 April 08, 2013 8:28 PM  

Do we speak of the Iron Lady or the Queen of Hearts?

Well played, Loki. Not yet worship material, but admirable.

Maybe if she had the option of severing, Britain would have been saved.

Anonymous zen0 Putin April 08, 2013 8:30 PM  

Idle mocks:

Oh. Where's my sandwich? Dennis?

So when you go bonkers, you are also fair game, yes?

Anonymous Idle Spectator April 08, 2013 8:34 PM  

So when you go bonkers, you are also fair game, yes?

I think I'm already there. I'm also not running for political office or a public figure for a reason.

Anonymous AdognamedOp April 08, 2013 8:44 PM  

For some reason this news made me want to break out Floyds "Final Cut" sheet music and the Roland.
Man, what a depressing album. Is Waters an aspie?

Anonymous Idle Spectator April 08, 2013 8:54 PM  

This song needs to be playing at her funeral.

Ok, I'm done with my tasteless jokes now. It's a drive-by-mocking. The casualties are pensively splayed on the sidewalk.

//Runs out

Anonymous sprach von Teufelshunden April 08, 2013 9:01 PM  

I remember being in Portsmouth in the fall of '82. I was attached to the U.S.S. Nassau. We had just completed Northern Wedding/Boldguard (NATO), in Scandinavia and Germany. Understand, that my deployment was shortly after the Falklands War. I shared many a pint with Royal Navy and Marines, RAF, and Army, in pubs in Portsmouth, London, and Edinburgh (just to name a few). Bottom line, they loved their "Iron Lady" for her guts alone. Later in history, we learn of her dealings with the Shah.

Now, I'm not sure what is bigger news, the death of Thatcher (can't wait for the Masonic funeral), or the fact that Google is not only the CIA, but it is well beyond it. News, courtesy of Austin based Stratfor... (2nd hour, 4/8/13)

Anonymous Josh April 08, 2013 9:06 PM  

Say Dread...

Wasn't Bernanke supposed to be arrested by the US military last week?

Blogger Nate April 08, 2013 10:15 PM  

"I always love reading your political takes, Nate. They remind me of me when I was a child of about four and hadn't figured out how life worked,"

And by that you mean... back before you had decided to become a woman and ignore deeds completely... while instead focusing entirely on words?

You're a fool Scintan. You liked Reagan and you can't bring yourself to admit that you were wrong all those years ago.

Anonymous zen0 April 08, 2013 11:12 PM  

I think I'm already there. I'm also not running for political office or a public figure for a reason.

That won't save you. Ignorant youths will spot you on the bus and mock you unmercifully for no other reason but their sport. If you pee your pants, they will mock you for that, and the cycle of life will be fulfilled.

Avoid public transportation.

Anonymous zen0 April 08, 2013 11:16 PM  

Wasn't Bernanke supposed to be arrested by the US military last week?

Oh my. Such a stickler for details. I suppose you went all nancy boy about the lack of a bank holiday or military coup as well.

Tut, tut. Such a pedant.

Anonymous TheExpat April 09, 2013 12:20 AM  

A nation that ...

"(sells) its sovereignty for nothing more than empty economic promises"

... is like Esau selling his birthright for a bowl of pottage.

Blogger M. Simon April 09, 2013 2:13 AM  

Hillary strikes me as an idealist, determined to save America from the vast right wing conspiracy.

And deliver it to the vaster left wing conspiracy. Which may in fact be the same conspiracy. The shrewdest operators control both "sides".

Anonymous Outlaw X April 09, 2013 3:50 AM  

I remember Vox alluding to her above quote in "the Wrath of Angels". I forget exactly what he said, but it was a lament of The Lady, all I remember.

Anonymous E> PERLINE April 09, 2013 5:22 PM  

Unless the present Democrat administration leads us utter disaster in the next 3 and half years, the voters will elect the one who gets the most press, Hillary Clinton.

But Mrs. Clinton has already been through a lot, the stress of politics and the duplicity of her husband. I know from looking around me that she must avoid diseases which could affect her at her age.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein April 09, 2013 6:01 PM  

Unless the present Democrat administration leads us utter disaster in the next 3 and half years…

What more can they do?

Blogger Rantor April 09, 2013 6:28 PM  

Hillary will be 70. Obama would be stupid to throw his machine behind her. He will have the money and connections to decide the next Dem candidate, and short of the 2016 bottom of the market that Prechter predicts, (or the 2015 bottom Nate predicts), he will win.

By 2016 unemployment, by BLS calculation, will be low, even though higher than ever. If Bernanke and co can keep the market juiced, Dems will have a landslide victory.


Blogger James Dixon April 10, 2013 12:56 PM  

> He will have the money and connections to decide the next Dem candidate...

Given that they gave the State position to Kerry, they may be considering re-running him. But the safe money is still Hillary vs. Jeb Bush.

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