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Sunday, May 12, 2013

Health evaders and the B Ark

I wonder what they're going to call the millions of Americans who refuse to turn over their health information to the IRS next year?  Health evaders?  Health protesters?
When Obamacare’s individual mandate takes effect in 2014, all Americans who file income tax returns must complete an additional IRS tax form. The new form will require disclosure of a taxpayer’s personal identifying health information in order to determine compliance with the Affordable Care Act’s individual mandate. As confirmed by IRS testimony to the tax-writing House Committee on Ways and Means, “taxpayers will file their tax returns reporting their health insurance coverage, and/or making a payment”.
Whatever they call them, I tend to imagine there are going to be a fair amount of them.  Honestly, I don't see how this whole creaky system is going to survive much longer.  History shows that there is a lot of ruin in a nation, but at this rate, the entire business activity of the USA is soon going to be computers trading stocks with other computers and people filling out forms for the IRS and other government agencies.

Welcome to the B Ark economy.

Labels: ,

72 Comments:

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben May 12, 2013 5:18 PM  

It's for the children.

Anonymous Idle Spectator May 12, 2013 5:27 PM  

Answer: Mentally ill.

Anonymous nick digger May 12, 2013 5:30 PM  

Everyone already tattoos a SSN on their newborn childrens' foreheads for a tax deduction. Anyone who says they won't comply with this, is lying.

Anonymous Dot connector May 12, 2013 5:36 PM  

The "healthcare" industry is definitely a Trojan horse for the statists. Stay healthy friends.

Anonymous scoobius dubious May 12, 2013 5:37 PM  

"It's for the children."

I dunno... I think it's all probably about de turrrible legacy of de slabery, and prolly also about de Holocaust. You see, the most important issue in American politics is a thing that a bunch of foreigners did to another bunch of foreigners, on another continent, halfway around the planet, roughly 70 years ago, in response to something that the second bunch of foreigners did to yet a third and fourth group or foreigners, also on another continent, now we're talking like 90 years ago. But it's all our fault somehow. All you crackaz are guilty of it somehow, both in the past and also in the future, forever. Just as you're ALL guilty of de turrrrible, turrrrible slabery, which mysteriously was ended 150 yearbs ago, by the shed blood of your own ancestors. But you're all still guilty. Especially you fiiiine white girls. Now spread dem fiiiine white legs, and give us some sweet, sweet reparations for things which we didn't experience, and which you never did.

Wait, no, looking at the actual composition of the FedGov, there's no mistaking it, it's DEFINITELY about dat ere ol' Holocaust, which you didn't do but which you'll pay for forever anyway, wif de turrrible slabery, which you also didn't do but which you'll also pay for forever anyway, making itself useful as a fig leaf.

"Who told you you were naked?"

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother May 12, 2013 6:11 PM  

Everyone already tattoos a SSN on their newborn childrens' foreheads for a tax deduction. Anyone who says they won't comply with this, is lying.

My oldest son has no SSN. My youngest son does because the stupid cunt at the hospital didn't read the form I filled out in large letters saying "NO SSN". You want to see confusion? Go to the SSN office and tell them you want the number revoked.

Blogger El Borak May 12, 2013 6:13 PM  

Telephone sanitizers. What we need is a few million unionized telephone sanitizers.

Anonymous Jack Amok May 12, 2013 6:22 PM  

Can I claim all my health needs are taken care of by my tribal witchdoctor in exchange for newt droppings and foxglvoe blossums? I mean, it would be wrong for the IRS to discrimiate against the ancient beliefs of my (perhaps imaginary) culture, right?

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein May 12, 2013 6:24 PM  

ALL YOUR HEALTH INFO ARE BELONG TO US.

Anonymous TJIC May 12, 2013 6:30 PM  

"revisionists" and "deniers" seem to be the two current "here be witches!" terms.

Anonymous Salt May 12, 2013 6:34 PM  

People need to stop filing all together. That's a meaningful protest. As Obama likes to say, one then has skin in the game.

Anonymous Outlaw X May 12, 2013 6:45 PM  

OT: Happy Mothers Day to all mothers out there. If it was for you civilization would die. Thank you!

Anonymous Outlaw X May 12, 2013 6:47 PM  

"Wasn't"

Anonymous kh123 May 12, 2013 6:55 PM  

"B Ark economy."

More like Babel Tower Economics.

Punish the productive and cradle the comrades. Again, it seems less onerous for one to declare themselves undocumented than to fall foul of Caesars' labyrinthine tax code.

Anonymous Dc May 12, 2013 7:06 PM  

OT

Police Practice for Gunbattle with… ‘Angry Parents at a School’

Anonymous Will Best May 12, 2013 7:07 PM  

It's for the children.
If I were single and could crash on a friends couch I would ignore this new requirement. But as I am married with 3 children, I can't actually afford to have my assets frozen.

And if you think the IRS is discriminating now just wait until how many people who fail to file the new form end up prosecuted vs. the federal employees that still owe 3.5 billion in back taxes.

People need to stop filing all together. That's a meaningful protest. As Obama likes to say, one then has skin in the game.

That doesn't work when your employer via the IRS requires you to consistently give the US a 2-3,000 loan annually.

Anonymous Mr. Pea May 12, 2013 7:14 PM  

If you do not or can not prove you have health insurance, the IRS will fine, er... tax you, 6**.00 dollars according to my tax preparer. Saw it right up there on her screen.

A lot of people are going to get screwed... some more.

Anonymous A Visitor May 12, 2013 7:17 PM  

You want to see confusion? Go to the SSN office and tell them you want the number revoked. I just Lolled.

ALL YOUR HEALTH INFO ARE BELONG TO US. Classic

I don't know; I'm kinda hosed on this one since I work for a fed contractor I assume they already have my info. Or would I be mistaken?

For the record, I'm still against this (and Dear Leader care by extension).

Anonymous realmatt May 12, 2013 7:17 PM  

This is just ridiculous. I imagined it happening more slowly than this. Obama really is as bad as we feared he'd be.

I'm filing nothing, paying nothing, doing nothing on the books and moving to some goddamn South American hell hole and teaching the locals how to not be so worthless and paying off or killing whomever needs to be paid off or killed and building my own city because the only other option for me is living as a sex addicted outcast in the Arizona desert, screwing young art students and hosting third rate "Burning Man" festivals...and shooting porn...oh yeah thats the good stuff.

Screw you, South America! I'M GOIN' TO THE DESERT!

Better a king of sh*t than a bent over slave.

Anonymous Snickers May 12, 2013 7:18 PM  

That doesn't work when your employer via the IRS requires you to consistently give the US a 2-3,000 loan annually.

This is nonsense. Increase the withholding allowances on your W4.

Blogger Joe A. May 12, 2013 7:25 PM  

I won't comply with this, Nick Digger. I am not lying.

Anonymous TheExpat May 12, 2013 7:30 PM  

Everyone already tattoos a SSN on their newborn childrens' foreheads for a tax deduction.

lol is this really a thing? I've been gone too long...

Anonymous whatever May 12, 2013 7:32 PM  


Everyone already tattoos a SSN on their newborn childrens' foreheads for a tax deduction. Anyone who says they won't comply with this, is lying.


Well, who doesn't have health insurance, moron? Those without job based healthcare. Who do fines hurt the worst? Those who are poor.

These two are rather correlated. So plenty of people are going to "protest" if by "protest" you mean not have the money to pay and then not file.

Blogger James Dixon May 12, 2013 7:34 PM  

> lol is this really a thing?

Sort of. Except for the tattooed part. You have to provide your child's SSN to claim them as a deduction on your federal taxes. No SSN, no deduction.

Blogger Scott May 12, 2013 7:35 PM  

People need to stop filing all together

Absolutely. This is the only way out. A movement of this magnitude requires leadership, unity, and conviction. But look around. You are surrounded by morons trending ever more moronic.

Blogger mmaier2112 May 12, 2013 7:38 PM  

Do you even have to file if you don't OWE taxes? I've never checked.

Blogger James Dixon May 12, 2013 7:55 PM  

> Do you even have to file if you don't OWE taxes? I've never checked.

If you make any significant income, yes. See http://www.irs.gov/uac/Do-I-have-to-File-a-Tax-Return%3F

Anonymous realmatt May 12, 2013 7:58 PM  

They want you to file no matter what.

And really, if you don't make enough, you qualify for certain credits so if you make less than the amount necessary to pay taxes, you might get a good amount in return, for free.

Even if you don't make enough to pay federal taxes, depending on what state you live in, you may owe a small amount in state/city taxes. they want their 30 dollars.

I could have received 1500 a few years ago despite paying less than that, due to certain tax credits I was qualified for.

Blogger A Conservative Teacher May 12, 2013 8:28 PM  

It will call them criminal and use the full power of the IRS to strike at, audit, harass, fine, and bully those who resist. There are so many laws and regulations and wrinkles with the laws that I doubt anyone is 100% clean today- so the IRS will get you. Unless we all resist and collapse the system... who's with me?

Blogger LP 999/Eliza May 12, 2013 8:32 PM  

Completely predictable, as data slowly poured out that the IRS will have a visible presence in the ACA.

Perhaps, the future criminals will be the sick, aged and disabled despite filing all the paperwork, rushing to file for SSDI/public assistance and private healthcare.

During the last few months the financial or business offices of the hospitals and healthcare providers have advised me that there will be a mountain of paperwork for moms cancer and dads stroke or the recovery there of.

In terms of insurance, they are not insurable. In terms of driving, they cannot drive, they cannot be insured to drive and do not qualify for medicare or medicaid or home health care. As for taxes, the tax preparers are already maxed out trying to prepare for the compliance and docs required for this level of complexity.

Yet the same baby boomers who wanted this plan, who pushed it into law will not be able to comply with it no matter who they are.

As for younger people, "you'll be insured or receive care even if you do not have health care" is a joke. Sure, you will be treated but get ready for the sticker shock.

Anonymous cheddarman May 12, 2013 8:45 PM  

I think the increasingly negative social mood in the U.S. will help me with my plan to sell franchises for Vikings-R-US.

As a dedicated follower of the Austrian school of economics, i don't want to give the government a monopoly on pillaging.

sincerely

cheddarman

Anonymous Blaise Bailey Finnegan III May 12, 2013 8:46 PM  

Told y'all

Anonymous 11B May 12, 2013 8:46 PM  

Welcome to the B Ark economy.

Could you explain what that term means.

Anonymous Stilicho May 12, 2013 9:04 PM  

There are so many laws and regulations and wrinkles with the laws that I doubt anyone is 100% clean today- so the IRS will get you. Unless we all resist and collapse the system... who's with me?

Prisoner's dilemma will... bite you in the nards.

Blogger Markku May 12, 2013 9:08 PM  

'B' Ark

Anonymous Stilicho May 12, 2013 9:10 PM  

Everyone already tattoos a SSN on their newborn childrens' foreheads for a tax deduction.

Numbered, neutered, then knackered. Welcome to the cradle-to-grave nanny state.

Blogger The Aardvark May 12, 2013 9:11 PM  

11B

Go here:

http://www.geoffwilkins.net/fragments/Adams.htm

Anonymous Vidad May 12, 2013 9:11 PM  

"Welcome to the B Ark economy.

Could you explain what that term means."

It's a reference to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy. The "unproductive" citizens are loaded onto a ship and sent off to colonize a world... not knowing that they're the only ones going and the productive folks have all stayed home.

Anonymous Boogeyman May 12, 2013 9:13 PM  

We demand to zee your papers

Blogger Scott May 12, 2013 9:33 PM  

Prediction. The media will use the IRS scandal to mask away Benghazi. Then when theyve sufficiently twisted the blame away from the Obama admin, most of the public will have forgotten about Benghazi; probably a week or two. And if they're lucky some other tragedy will surface that focuses on the republicans, manufactured or otherwise.

Anonymous Eric May 12, 2013 9:47 PM  

LOL, Scott. You mean like this?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/12/us/louisiana-shooting/index.html

Anonymous OASF Ruler of the Great White Zimbabwe May 12, 2013 9:59 PM  

I'd say the resistors may be the first inhabitants of the FEMA Camps...

Anonymous dh May 12, 2013 10:37 PM  

Why is that even smart people can't discuss this topic without fundamentally being a misleading jerk.

There is nothing in the article linked that claims the IRS will require anything like "health information".

The IRS form described has information about your health insurance.

Anonymous nick digger May 12, 2013 10:55 PM  

Joe A.: "I won't comply with this, Nick Digger. I am not lying."

sigh... "The number of people who, next year, will stick to their non-compliance promise of today, will be insignificant."
-Revised. I usually always never talk in absolutes.


This is a non-issue for the few people who live outside the mainstream, corporate-govt economy. The rest will have to ask the man to please remember to lube that extra finger, if it's not too much trouble.

People who itemize deductions can also non-comply the new form, and cover the fine with a $700 worth of creative expenses.

Anonymous zen0 May 12, 2013 11:03 PM  

Obama really is as bad as we feared he'd be.

If you recall a few months or half-a-year ago, the choice was

Happen Faster...Obama
Happen Slower....Romuly

We The People chose Faster.

Anonymous zen0 May 12, 2013 11:21 PM  

@ dh

The IRS form described has information about your health insurance.

Are you being serious? If so, that would explain alot.

Anonymous Mr. Pea May 12, 2013 11:22 PM  

The IRS form described has information about your health insurance.

And your health insurance I.D. number identifies you with your health records. Just a more efficient way to make sure no one escapes the death... er, health panel.

Anyhow, just amazing that this thing was passed without being read. And... after it passes, they are STILL writing the rules.

Anonymous dh May 13, 2013 12:33 AM  

And your health insurance I.D. number identifies you with your health records. Just a more efficient way to make sure no one escapes the death... er, health panel

This is not true. First, the article makes a clear distinction:

health insurance identification number of the taxpayer
This is related to your insurance.

But so what, the article is just that. It's not exactly sourced. And there are no other references.

But, the bottom line is, that it is 100% trivial to link your health information to you via social security number (which the IRS already has), via your name/address (which the IRS already has), by your name/employer/date of birth (which the IRS already has).

In fact, if you have an HSA plan the IRS already has WAY more information than this, including actual category level spending and re-imbursements, which can be more easily tracked down.

On the employer side, the IRS already has the information because employer insurance costs are pre-tax (and often tax deductible). The information down the employee level is already provided to the IRS en mass.

The ilk are unusually smart, except when it comes to confirming something they already wanted to believe.

Anonymous dh May 13, 2013 12:33 AM  

Anyhow, just amazing that this thing was passed without being read. And... after it passes, they are STILL writing the rules.

Yes, that's the problem. Not that the IRS has your health insurance policy number.

Anonymous dh May 13, 2013 12:35 AM  

People who itemize deductions can also non-comply the new form, and cover the fine with a $700 worth of creative expenses.

Not exactly. You would have to inflate enough spaces so that your expenses over your effective tax rate equals $700.

Anonymous Noah B. May 13, 2013 12:57 AM  

Well, it only took eight years, but it looks like New Orleans is back to normal.

Anonymous DonReynolds May 13, 2013 1:08 AM  

Back enough people into a corner and criminalize their non-conformity or non-compliance and you will get the push back you are looking for....granted, most will simply whine and blubber as they climb into the boxcars, hoping some last minute bureaucratic decision will render them not worth the effort. But there will be some and the government will find that some is way too many. In the end, the government will resort to non-enforcement or selective enforcement to create a few "examples" to hopefully whip many of the refuse-niks into the line.

Honestly people, they cannot even manage to immunize all the kids in school, too many people do not even have an address or a valid drivers license. I am absolutely certain that universal, in a practical sense, does not really mean everybody. (Illegal aliens are not required to participate, they already get free care at the hospital emergency room.) If this country cannot find tens of millions of illegal aliens, I am sure they will do a similarly crummy job of keeping up with all those who do not have the approved Obamacare health insurance coverage.

Blogger Dr. Faust May 13, 2013 2:53 AM  

Isn't obamacare going to greatly expand medicaid?

Anonymous snark May 13, 2013 5:10 AM  

"Isn't obamacare going to greatly expand medicaid?"

Not until after all of the evil old white people are dead.

Anonymous VD May 13, 2013 6:19 AM  

There is nothing in the article linked that claims the IRS will require anything like "health information".

Learn to read more closely, dh: "a taxpayer’s personal identifying health information". Awkwardly worded, but it is clearly talking about the number, not all the health information.

It's not meaningless, which is why the fines are fairly steep. It's about making the information flows efficient enough to function.

the bottom line is, that it is 100% trivial to link your health information to you via social security number (which the IRS already has), via your name/address (which the IRS already has), by your name/employer/date of birth (which the IRS already has).

That's absurd. You clearly don't know much about how databases work. What you are describing is not at all trivial for multiple legacy systems covering billions of records.

Anonymous Musashi May 13, 2013 7:31 AM  

Methinks the designation of choice will be: "health terrorist"

Anonymous dh May 13, 2013 9:09 AM  

That's absurd. You clearly don't know much about how databases work. What you are describing is not at all trivial for multiple legacy systems covering billions of records.

VD-- you obviously don't know about the IRS. They already link all of this information with nothing more than - you guessed it - your SSN, name/address and date of birth. That's it. And they have, bar none, the largest, oldest, most complex database in the entire federal government.

And they already do this, with more detail, for processing HSA account deductions and credits. They already do pattern matching, regressions, deviation analysis, and all manner of advanced data functions on their existing platform.

As far as this:

"a taxpayer’s personal identifying health information"

This is ATR's sleight of hand (i.e., being dishonest). Because when they actually quote their source, the IRS, they specify:

"taxpayers will file their tax returns reporting their health insurance coverage, and/or making a payment"

and

"This new tax information document must, at a minimum, contain: the name and health insurance identification number of the taxpayer; the name and tax identification number of the health insurance company; the number of months the taxpayer was covered by this insurance plan; and whether or not the plan was purchased in one of Obamacare's exchanges."

ATR interchanges "health insurance identification number" - which is an actual thing, and "personal health ID information", which is not an actual thing.

But even just forgetting this, both ATR and your writeup both imply that the IRS will be getting your "health information" - information about your health. This is false. They will be receiving information on your health insurance. Regardless of a new fictional ID number, they will still have enough information to link your health insurance policy to your tax records. They have had this information already. The purpose of the new form is to force insurers to certify the timeframe of coverage AND, more importantly, if they collected a subsidy for it and if meets the coverage requirements to avoid the customer/taxpayer from paying the fine.

Anonymous Noah B. May 13, 2013 9:44 AM  

But even just forgetting this, both ATR and your writeup both imply that the IRS will be getting your "health information" - information about your health. This is false.

You also claimed that no one was confiscating guns.

Anonymous Stilicho May 13, 2013 9:47 AM  

Ah dh, when you find yourself defending the IRS...

At any rate, what you fundamentally fail to grok, whether intentionally or otherwise, is the fact that the IRS does not currently have individual info wrt health insurance, nor can they ascertain which plan particular employees are a part of since most large employers have different plans available, not to mention the multiplicity of plans (and plan numbers) due to different states' insurance requirements. A consolidated corporate return simply does not provide this level of detail.

Now, this new step isn't the end of the world as you imply the critics are claiming, but it is yet another step in the wrong direction. It is a short step from these provisions which require disclosure of individual plans, ID numbers, dates of coverage, and details of the type/scope of coverage, to demanding further disclosure of individual treatment details. After all, you just never know which taxpayer might be receiving psychological counseling and need to be placed on various lists. The principle has been established and all further discussions are just haggling over price. It is s slippery slope regardless of your desire to ignore it. Just lie back and enjoy the slide.

Anonymous Noah B. May 13, 2013 9:49 AM  

VD-- you obviously don't know about the IRS. They already link all of this information with nothing more than - you guessed it - your SSN, name/address and date of birth. That's it. And they have, bar none, the largest, oldest, most complex database in the entire federal government.

Uh-huh. About 20% of the time when we file 1099's, even after we've verified Social Security numbers, we get notices from the IRS saying the taxpayer ID doesn't match. Their records are clearly a disorganized mess, and millions of illegals filing fraudulent tax documents might have something to do with this. This is a DBA's nightmare.

Anonymous Stilicho May 13, 2013 9:54 AM  

You also claimed that no one was confiscating guns.

A la officer Barbrady, when leftists claim that there is "nothing to see here, please move along" regarding some action favored by the left, it is a good indicator that there is indeed "something to see here."

Anonymous bob k. mando May 13, 2013 10:27 AM  

nick digger May 12, 2013 10:55 PM
The rest will have to ask the man to please remember to lube that extra finger,





you fool. there is no lube.

the lube IS A LIE.

Anonymous Athor Pel May 13, 2013 10:43 AM  

I've posted this before. It's on topic so I'm putting it up again.


Every database is dirty. Every database has corrupted data in it. Every database has incorrectly entered data in it. Every database has made up data in it. Every database has missing data. Every database has missing categories of data in it while also having extraneous categories of data, meaning it was poorly designed for its intended purpose. Every database is being queried by methods that don't account for every assumption needed in order to return the intended data.

Why are all these things wrong with all of humanity's databases? Because we're human.


So think about this for a minute. We know that just about every business enterprise in the world is frantically attempting to compile more and more customer data in order to sell more and more product. We also know every government enterprise is doing the same for less mercantile reasons.

Let's make an assumption, none of these enterprises are working for your true long term well-being. If that is so then how can you hinder them in their quest for total data acquisition? Refuse to give any data to them when possible, when prevented from refusal then give them incorrect data if you can. Corrupt their databases. As you can probably tell, you must forsake the convenience they offer you in exchange for your data.

Blogger Markku May 13, 2013 10:51 AM  

This is ATR's sleight of hand (i.e., being dishonest). Because when they actually quote their source, the IRS, they specify ... "Obamacare's" ...

What, they actually call it that?

Anonymous duckman May 13, 2013 1:27 PM  

Welcome to the B Ark economy.

Has the leaf been declared the official currency yet? And can I possibly get one ship's peanut for less than 3 deciduous forests?

Anonymous duckman May 13, 2013 1:31 PM  

[B Ark] It's a reference to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy. The "unproductive" citizens are loaded onto a ship and sent off to colonize a world.

The world happens to be what we call Earth. The "unproductives" do have the last laugh when a virus from a dirty telephone wipes out their home world.

Anonymous tinlaw May 13, 2013 2:11 PM  

The law that required children to have a SSN in order to claim them as dependents for the deduction has sunsetted. (Is that a word?) I have been claiming my little ones, without SSNs for years. Now, to claim them for the Earned Income Tax Credit one DOES need them to have SSNs.

Anonymous claims pages trending May 16, 2013 12:32 PM  

Absolutely. This is the only way out. A movement of this magnitude requires leadership, unity, and conviction. But look around. You are surrounded by morons trending ever more moronic.

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