A black female fantasist calls for Reconciliation
NK Jemisin is publicly lying about me and a few other things in Australia as she blithely advocates the continued self-destruction of science fiction:
Granted, Spacebunny and the fat frog that is Nielsen Hayden don't look as if they belong to the same phylum, let alone the same species, so perhaps the key word is not "women, but "actual" in the sense of "grotesquely malformed".
I therefore suggest that their assertions should be taken with at least a small grain of salt rather than credited to me. And it should be obvious that, being a libertarian, I am not actively attempting to take away anyone's "most basic rights". Jemisin has it wrong; it is not that I, and others, do not view her as human, (although genetic science presently suggests that we are not equally homo sapiens sapiens), it is that we simply do not view her as being fully civilized for the obvious historical reason that she is not.
She is lying about the laws in Texas and Florida too. The laws are not there to let whites " just shoot people like me, without consequence, as long as they feel threatened by my presence", those self-defense laws have been put in place to let whites defend their lives and their property from people, like her, who are half-savages engaged in attacking them.
Jemisin's disregard for the truth is no different than the average Chicago gangbanger's disregard for the traditional Western code of civilized conduct. She could, if she wished, claim that privileged white males are responsible for the decline of Detroit, for the declining sales of science fiction, even for the economic and cultural decline of the United States, but that would not make it true. It would not even make it credible. Anyone who is paying sufficient attention will understand who is genuinely responsible for these problems.
Unlike the white males she excoriates, there is no evidence to be found anywhere on the planet that a society of NK Jemisins is capable of building an advanced civilization, or even successfully maintaining one without significant external support from those white males. If one considers that it took my English and German ancestors more than one thousand years to become fully civilized after their first contact with advanced Greco-Roman civilization, it should be patently obvious that it is illogical to imagine, let alone insist, that Africans have somehow managed to do the same in less than half the time at a greater geographic distance. These things take time.
Being an educated, but ignorant half-savage, with little more understanding of what it took to build a new literature by "a bunch of beardy old middle-class middle-American guys" than an illiterate Igbotu tribesman has of how to build a jet engine, Jemisin clearly does not understand that her dishonest call for "reconciliation" and even more diversity within SF/F is tantamount to a call for its decline into irrelevance. Nor do the back-patting Samuel Johnsons wiping their eyes and congratulating her for her ever-so-touching speech understand that.
There can be no reconciliation between the observant and the delusional.
UPDATE: It may amuse some of you to know that in making her false claim, NK Jemisin appears to have violated the SFWA Forum rules, which state: "[A]ll posts made here are confidential. Material may not be re-posted outside these forums without the explicit permission of their authors." I am confident the moderators of the SFWA will be swift to deal with this violation of the organization's rules.
UPDATE 2: The Spitefully Fascist Writers of America are on the job! This post was resulted in the following email: "Your blog feed has been removed from the @SFWAauthors aggregator due to violating of the policies of this service, specifically: "Marking blog posts for inclusion that include threats or personal attacks or obvious trolling will also be grounds for removal.""
UPDATE 3: Now the SFWA moderators have, at least temporarily, wiped my comments off the SFWA Forum thread while leaving the attacks on me untouched. What a pity that 20x more people will read everything here instead. Keep this in mind when you're trying to argue that there are no ideological gatekeepers in the SF/F publishing world. They desperately want to silence all disssent, and they're tremendously frustrated that they don't have the wherewithal.
UPDATE 4: As always, I am quite willing to publicly debate Ms Jemisin, Mr. Sanford, or any other member of the SFWA concerning the issues raised here, be it on the SFWA Forum, this blog, or any other written venue. And if all these passionate champions of human equality are afraid to defend their views in public, as were Messrs Myers and McRapey in the past, well, everyone knows perfectly well what that signifies, their protestations notwithstanding.
UPDATE 5: McRapey has the perfect solution to the Problem that Must Not Be Named. He's going to give money to ANOTHER charity. That will show me! When did "donation" replace "education" as the left-liberal solution to all evils?
Right now American politicians are doing their best to roll back voting rights won during our own Civil Rights movement. They are putting in place educational “reforms” which disproportionately have a negative impact on black and brown and poor white kids, and will essentially help to solidify a permanent underclass. Right now there are laws in places like Florida and Texas which are intended to make it essentially legal for white people to just shoot people like me, without consequence, as long as they feel threatened by my presence. So: admitting that the land we live on was stolen from hundreds of other nations and peoples? Acknowledging that the prosperity the United States enjoys was bought with blood? That’s a pipe dream.Let me be perfectly clear. I do not describe myself as a "misogynist, racist, anti-Semite, and a few other flavors of asshole". John Scalzi, Patrick Nielsen Hayden, and Theresa Nielsen Hayden, among others, have described me that way. Of course, John Scalzi also describes himself as a rapist, Patrick Nielsen Hayden took his wife's name when he got married, and Theresa Nielsen Hayden is dumb enough to have claimed a prominent Game blogger with three Billboard-charting club hits "is not acquainted with actual women."
I want you to understand that what you’ve done makes me want to weep with envy, and bitterness, and hope.
So: segue time. Let’s scale down. Let’s talk about the community — the microcosmic nation — of science fiction and fantasy.
For the past few days I’ve also been observing a “kerfuffle”, as some call it, in reaction to the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers’ of America’s latest professional journal, the Bulletin. Some of you may also have been following the discussion; hopefully not all of you. To summarize: two of the genre’s most venerable white male writers made some comments in a series of recent articles which have been decried as sexist and racist by most of the organization’s membership. Now, to put this in context: the membership of SFWA also recently voted in a new president. There were two candidates — one of whom was a self-described misogynist, racist, anti-Semite, and a few other flavors of asshole. In this election he lost by a landslide… but he still earned ten percent of the vote. SFWA is small; only about 500 people voted in total, so we’re talking less than 50 people. But scale up again. Imagine if ten percent of this country’s population was busy making active efforts to take away not mere privileges, not even dignity, but your most basic rights. Imagine if ten percent of the people you interacted with, on a daily basis, did not regard you as human.
Just ten percent. But such a ten percent.
And beyond that ten percent are the silent majority — the great unmeasured mass of enablers. These are the folks who don’t object to the treatment of women as human beings, and who may even have the odd black or gay friend that they genuinely like. However, when the ten percent starts up in their frothing rage, these are the people who say nothing in response. When women and other marginalized groups respond with anger to the hatred of the ten percent, these are the people who do not support them, and in fact suggest that maybe they’re overreacting. When they read a novel set in a human society which contains only one or two female characters, these are the people who don’t decry this as implausible. Or worse, they simply don’t notice. These are the people who successfully campaigned for Star Trek to return to television after 25 years, but have no intention of campaigning for Roddenberry’s vision to be complete, with gay characters joining the rainbow brigade on the bridge. These are the people who gleefully nitpick the scientific plausibility of stopping a volcano with “cold fusion”, yet who fail to notice that an author has written a future earth in which somehow seventeen percent of the human race dominates ninety percent of the characterization.
Granted, Spacebunny and the fat frog that is Nielsen Hayden don't look as if they belong to the same phylum, let alone the same species, so perhaps the key word is not "women, but "actual" in the sense of "grotesquely malformed".
I therefore suggest that their assertions should be taken with at least a small grain of salt rather than credited to me. And it should be obvious that, being a libertarian, I am not actively attempting to take away anyone's "most basic rights". Jemisin has it wrong; it is not that I, and others, do not view her as human, (although genetic science presently suggests that we are not equally homo sapiens sapiens), it is that we simply do not view her as being fully civilized for the obvious historical reason that she is not.
She is lying about the laws in Texas and Florida too. The laws are not there to let whites " just shoot people like me, without consequence, as long as they feel threatened by my presence", those self-defense laws have been put in place to let whites defend their lives and their property from people, like her, who are half-savages engaged in attacking them.
Jemisin's disregard for the truth is no different than the average Chicago gangbanger's disregard for the traditional Western code of civilized conduct. She could, if she wished, claim that privileged white males are responsible for the decline of Detroit, for the declining sales of science fiction, even for the economic and cultural decline of the United States, but that would not make it true. It would not even make it credible. Anyone who is paying sufficient attention will understand who is genuinely responsible for these problems.
Unlike the white males she excoriates, there is no evidence to be found anywhere on the planet that a society of NK Jemisins is capable of building an advanced civilization, or even successfully maintaining one without significant external support from those white males. If one considers that it took my English and German ancestors more than one thousand years to become fully civilized after their first contact with advanced Greco-Roman civilization, it should be patently obvious that it is illogical to imagine, let alone insist, that Africans have somehow managed to do the same in less than half the time at a greater geographic distance. These things take time.
Being an educated, but ignorant half-savage, with little more understanding of what it took to build a new literature by "a bunch of beardy old middle-class middle-American guys" than an illiterate Igbotu tribesman has of how to build a jet engine, Jemisin clearly does not understand that her dishonest call for "reconciliation" and even more diversity within SF/F is tantamount to a call for its decline into irrelevance. Nor do the back-patting Samuel Johnsons wiping their eyes and congratulating her for her ever-so-touching speech understand that.
There can be no reconciliation between the observant and the delusional.
UPDATE: It may amuse some of you to know that in making her false claim, NK Jemisin appears to have violated the SFWA Forum rules, which state: "[A]ll posts made here are confidential. Material may not be re-posted outside these forums without the explicit permission of their authors." I am confident the moderators of the SFWA will be swift to deal with this violation of the organization's rules.
UPDATE 2: The Spitefully Fascist Writers of America are on the job! This post was resulted in the following email: "Your blog feed has been removed from the @SFWAauthors aggregator due to violating of the policies of this service, specifically: "Marking blog posts for inclusion that include threats or personal attacks or obvious trolling will also be grounds for removal.""
UPDATE 3: Now the SFWA moderators have, at least temporarily, wiped my comments off the SFWA Forum thread while leaving the attacks on me untouched. What a pity that 20x more people will read everything here instead. Keep this in mind when you're trying to argue that there are no ideological gatekeepers in the SF/F publishing world. They desperately want to silence all disssent, and they're tremendously frustrated that they don't have the wherewithal.
UPDATE 4: As always, I am quite willing to publicly debate Ms Jemisin, Mr. Sanford, or any other member of the SFWA concerning the issues raised here, be it on the SFWA Forum, this blog, or any other written venue. And if all these passionate champions of human equality are afraid to defend their views in public, as were Messrs Myers and McRapey in the past, well, everyone knows perfectly well what that signifies, their protestations notwithstanding.
UPDATE 5: McRapey has the perfect solution to the Problem that Must Not Be Named. He's going to give money to ANOTHER charity. That will show me! When did "donation" replace "education" as the left-liberal solution to all evils?
Labels: SFWA, Vibrancy is our strength
348 Comments:
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Noah B.
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richard hall
July 14, 2017 3:12 AM
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 348 of 348Or, to put it another way, a proportionate response is not "bad."
jamsco:
...this is a like PSA...
______________
Help me out here. At my time of life, PSA = prostate specific antigen.
This is the reaction when you speak convictions contrary to the mainstream. It's a spiritual thing. They hate you. It used to make me furious, but now it just saddens me. Fighting back is a waste of time. But suddenly I understand why you get involved in so many debates. It's a forum to defend your integrity.
Granted, Spacebunny and the fat frog that is Nielsen Hayden don't look as if they belong to the same phylum, let alone the same species...
LMFAO! Hayden must be taxonomically classified under phylum gastronormica.
Jamsco pops in to throw stones at Vox. He obviously believes that prostrating himself before the altar of Political Correctness makes him the better Christian. I believe Jamsco would rather eat his own liver than criticize a black person, or one of the other protected classes, thus making him a pathetic, whiny, little hypocrite.
PSA - Public Service Announcement
No, Obvious, he was only handcuffed, arrested and made to spend money on bail so he could get out of jail. So for you, it never happened. And you should know a guy was hauled into a Canadian court for a REVIEW of a fictional SF novel that had some elements of Islam.
And Australia's laws are similar to the U.K. And written rhetoric will be treated far differently than a song.
The SFWA could end up spending more money than they have just to defend their membership's non-stop hate speech. People like you often resort to pedantry to avoid facing a thing head on. Jemisin could in fact have been arrested and charged.
The Southern Poverty Law Center bankrupted the KKK through law suits. The same thing could be done to the SFWA in a U.K. jurisdiction.
Foz Meadows isn't SFWA but she does lives in the U.K. and she certainly profiled Malzberg's and Resnick's race, gender and age as a reason for their conduct in the SFWA bulletin dust-up. "Two old white guys" is how she put it. Meadows is then maintaining that in itself was the problem. The real problem is that's racism. Say "muslim" and it's Islamophobia. How many legal points do I get shaved for "two old black women?" Answer: none.
The SFWA would be better off writing about their art than white privilege and "old white men." It'll certainly be cheaper in the long run. My prediction is that they won't stop; cuz it's like an addiction for these people. Keep in mind, this is an SF&F organization to promote their literature, not the NAACP. I just don't get that. What was Jemisin thinking of?
Scalzi should start donating to their own legal fund, not charities. Eventually someone is going to stick it to them in a non-U.S. jurisdiction. Then you'll see the whining followed by the silence and maybe they'll go back to SF&F.
The funny thing is these PC laws come from guess who?
What do you mean by savage, half-savage, and civilized?
That's one of the first intelligent questions anyone has bothered to ask.
Savage = "uncivilized; barbarous" "enraged or furiously angry, as a person" also applies, as does "an uncivilized human being".
Civilized = "having an advanced or humane culture, society" as well as "organized or ordered".
We've been through this before. Civilized people can build, maintain, and participate in organized, ordered, advanced societies. Insufficiently civilized people cannot, ergo Detroit, Zimbabwe, etc.
Jemisin, as an individual, is not even capable of belonging to a not terribly complicated society like SFWA without tearing at its fabric. Jemisin also happens to be of an isolated genetic sub-species that only began to come into regular contact with advanced civilization about 500 years ago. She is literate and isn't running around like the Papua New Guineans were until very recently, but neither is she capable of building, maintaining, and participating in civilized society.
I don't know how rapidly white people are capable of devolving into half-savagery or full savagery. But I suspect it is a lot faster than the length of time it took to civilize the greater part of them. People can be offended if they like, but there is no getting around the observable historical facts.
Are there fully civilized Africans? Certainly. Are there half-savage Europeans? Indubitably. But when we're discussing large population groups of that consist of millions, it should be obvious to even the slowest thinker that we're necessarily dealing in macro generalities that may or may not apply to any one individual.
If that's "racist", then science, logic, and history are intrinsically racist. Good luck getting by without them.
What's really hilarious is that all the while Jamsco is fellating niggers, they hate his guts!
"Jemisin, as an individual, is not even capable of belonging to a not terribly complicated society like SFWA without tearing at its fabric."
So my questions are -
Is Jon Scalze capable of doing these things?
How many times have you called him a savage?
Stilicho June 13, 2013 2:21 PM
He's going to be broke soon if you keep forcing him to make pledges. Clever.
the trick isn't to force him to stop making pledges.
the trick is to force him to pay up on the pledges he's made.
i want to see the income tax returns.
Jill June 13, 2013 2:29 PM
@Fail Burton, I haven't read this woman's blog. I was basing my judgements on the information that was presented to me here.
Captain Slow / James May made the blog aware of Jemisin 4-6 months ago. just because this little snippet here was all that was quoted does NOT mean that this is the totality of her abhorrent behavior.
Jill June 13, 2013 2:29 PM
People who would destruct society are savages. That I'm clear on and would agree with. Making stupid arguments and claims? No. But I'm still waiting for VD's working definition of savagery.
i'm not sure if Vox has used that exact terminology in direct conjunction with the example but i am certain that he would be in absolute agreement with characterizing every single adherent of an ideology which has murdered ~150 million people in less than a century as "savage".
and the vast, VAST majority of Marxists are white or asian.
Fucking retards are hyperventilating over name calling on the Titanic.
What do you mean by savage, half-savage, and civilized?
Well, let's start with Civilized.
From an etymological standpoint, civilized comes from the Latin and basically implies someone with the habits necessary to be a functioning member of civil society. Civil Society is the sphere of public life outside of government and family control. It's how you interact with another citizen who isn't related to you when no one with a gun or a club or a jail cell is watching and forcing you to behave in a certain manner. Functional civil society requires fair dealings, respect for the property and persons of fellow citizens, a willingness to sacrifice for the good of society, and a willingness to both submit irreconcilable disagreements to an impartial arbiter, and to when necessary to be such an arbiter for the disputes of others.
Savage is the lack of those habits. Half-savage would therefore be someone who has some the habits, or who perhaps has all of them but frequently lapses in their use.
In particular, civilized really has nothing to do with a government. Savages can have governments. Savages can have kings and chieftains, warlords. They can even be democratic and vote for their leaders, as pirates often did. Savages can have complex tribal rules, religious authorities, codes of conduct. They can even be noble and kind on occasion.
Savages are indeed human beings, but they are humans who live in cultures with limited obligations to anyone who isn't related by blood or marriage and isn't in a position to force them into compliance with the threat of violence.
Is Jon Scalze capable of doing these things?
Yes, he's capable of belonging to one. He's just an incompetent executive, that's all.
How many times have you called him a savage?
Well, I suppose there is that rape thing.... No, Scalzi is not merely civilized, he's the perfect product of a civilization in decline.
Your approach is meaningless, though, Jamsco. If you want to defend your implied position of "ain't nobody savage nohow", you have to deal with the larger issues, namely, the time-to-civilization issue.
Censorship is the highest compliment these pigheaded totalitarian tyrants can pay one. That said, such evil is to be expected as the bigoted feminist narrative begins to break down and these arrogant fascists finally are forced to face reality.
Fail Burton,
You are aptly named.
Savages make societies nobody wants to live in, except themselves.
The civilized make societies everyone likes to live in.
Half-savages are savages who have not only benefited from living in the societies created by the civilized, but are no longer capable of living in a society created by savages.
For all their hatred of whites (civilized), one would think blacks in the developed countries (half-savages) would have returned to Africa (savages). But they don't. Unfortunately.
Fail Burton,
You are aptly named.
Alas, Obvious is not.
"If you want to defend your implied position of "ain't nobody savage nohow", you have to deal with the larger issues, namely, the time-to-civilization issue."
Where did I say that?
My approach is this, and I don't think it goes against the definition of savage, is that it should be determined on an individual basis based on their behavior, not by what "isolated genetic sub-species" she belongs to.
Her behavior is precisely what determined her savagery, jamsco. You are paying far too much attention to her skin, and not enough to her words. Her words are anti-civizational, parsed in an educated way.
Therefore, half-savage.
"Her behavior is precisely what determined her savagery, jamsco. You are paying far too much attention to her skin, and not enough to her words. Her words are anti-civizational, parsed in an educated way."
If Vox states that he would have called her a savage if she had been white, I'll stop paying attention to her race.
But I think his words were racially based, which is the most troubling aspect of this post.
"The SFWA would be better off writing about their art than white privilege and "old white men."
See, therein lies the problem: How does one describe a vacuum, and on a regular basis.
The truth hurts all the PC sheep like Jamsco. He would not have uttered the tiniest of squees had Vox referred to a white person as a complete savage. His reaction speaks for itself. His thinking is every bit as racist as anyone's, but Leftists mask their biases with pretensions of superiority.
I painted Obvious into a corner. It is a childishly easy thing to do since I am showing people violating their own principles. The SFWA will find the court system similarly unforgiving when they are asked by The Hague or Strasbourg to define racial defamation and the SFWA realizes that there is no possible definition of it they themselves can stipulate that they have not violated.
It's one thing to LOL and insult and ban people on the internet using double standards and another to delete a court. I'd just love to see the the SFWA feminists defend WisCon's racially segregated "safer-space." Hell, even U.S. papers will tear them to pieces once they get wind of it. So whites are dangerous, huh? At an SF convention. Prove it. Hate to meet whites in an alley. In the dark.
And these morons scream "profiling" over nothing.
I'm pretty sure that I, by any metric, have a high probability of being at least a half-savage since my own ethnic group has been involved in violent skirmishes for the better part of 800 yrs, rendering the society unstable and the economy a mess (up until it was falsely bloated not too long ago).
If I referred to David Duke as a "savage" I'd get nothing but high-fives from the SFWA.
My approach is this, and I don't think it goes against the definition of savage, is that it should be determined on an individual basis based on their behavior, not by what "isolated genetic sub-species" she belongs to.
Your approach is irrelevant. You're interested in micro. That's fine, but I'm talking about macro. Hence the entire point about time-to-civilization. This is a vitally important concept if it can be empirically substantiated... and you're not even thinking about it because you're too concerned about people's feelings getting hurt.
I'm pretty sure that I, by any metric, have a high probability of being at least a half-savage since my own ethnic group has been involved in violent skirmishes for the better part of 800 yrs, rendering the society unstable and the economy a mess (up until it was falsely bloated not too long ago).
Ah, Jill, you're a self-described misanthrope. The possibility that the Irish are not entirely civilized is not exactly news. Frankly, I was disappointed that they lay back and suffered the IMF's bank rape in such a civilized manner.
Nope. He's lying. Egalitarianism is a stated goal of the left and has been for some time. It is disingenuous to fight for egalitarianism and then distance yourself from your own success.
This is not uniformly true. There is a small but substantial anti-feminist left. It is the same across the left, in multiple areas of ideology. For example, there is substantial friction on the left between the open borders crowd and the more protection orientated union and service workers. There is anti-abortion leftism. There is pro-gun leftism.
Some people's idea of freedom is self determination of what they want, who they want it from, etc. This is true even when you use unapproved words or don't hire from the preferred group.
Other people's idea of freedom is dictating to you what you should want, who you should serve ... If you agree with them, then you can be free.
There is no peaceful reconciliation of these two views.
"Frankly, I was disappointed that they lay back and suffered the IMF's bank rape in such a civilized manner." So was I.
The possibility that the Irish are not entirely civilized is not exactly news.
I come here for the semiotics. I stay for the understatements.
The civilized certainly are capable of behaving like savages and tearing down their nice civilization. But savages are not capable of behaving like the civilized and creating a nice civilization. Therein lies the difference.
I would say the Irish (I'm about a third Irish myself) are about four-fifths civilized. Or one-fifth savage if you'd rather (haha, pun not entirely intended). There is a certain tribal streak that rises up every so often. But no one is really entirely civilized. Every society falls a little short. I think the difference is how a culture responds to it's savagery. Do they look at it with a certain amount of embarrassment, perhaps consider it an occasionally necessary evil, or do they celebrate it? Aspire to it?
This is not uniformly true.
Didn't say it was.
You are the one who identified her as a member of your side.
And damn the metric system anyway. There's no poetry at all to "one-750ml savage."
Since Africa's not dangerous, Obama's upcoming trip will only cost between 60 and 100 million dollars.
If it were dangerous Australia, land of racists, it would probably cost the U.S. 1 billion to get him in and out again safely.
Dirty Australians anyways.
Good thing the SFWA has literary goodwill ambassadors like N.K. Jemisin to spread the love. As a result, eventually Australia won't be so savage.
"Frankly, I was disappointed that they lay back and suffered the IMF's bank rape in such a civilized manner." So was I.
Lie back and think of Londonderry...
Whatever happened to James May?
Captain Slow refused to stop navel gazing and wound up getting thoroughly harangued by Vox and Nate and pretty much everybody on the blog.
i may have been the only person not to thrash him in that particular thread.
it's too bad he hasn't come back though. if he had stayed around eventually circumstances would have aligned such that i would have both had the time and been sufficiently annoyed with him that we would have had a definitive debate about the relative merits of:
1 - Robert Heinlein
2 - Frank Herbert's Dune
3 - David Gerrold's Chtorr
4 - sexual deviancy
and the coup de grace would be when i ask him, "Do you often mistake a vaginal symbol for a phallic one?"
"You're interested in micro. That's fine, but I'm talking about macro."
Vox, the topic at hand is, "Should Vox have called her a half-savage". We're not talking about macro, we're talking about your response to a single person. This makes being "interested in micro" relevant, reasonable - more so than macro.
"Hence the entire point about time-to-civilization."
Yes, I caught that.
So, it true that her black-ness is what caused you to call her a half-savage?
jamsco, it is fairly obvious that her savageness caused him to call her a half-savage. What are you missing?
Daniel, would you be disappointed in Vox if he stated that yes, he chose the word Savage because she was black?
Because look at all of his defenses of why he said it - they all focus on the concept that she comes from a segment of humanity that could not possibly be civilized yet.
jamsco, all I know is that he called a savage member of his gang half-savage. I don't really care what his motivation for using that word was, as it is a quite precise use of the word. She could string words together in a semblance of civilization that, were it possible, could deceive even the elect...which doesn't speak well for the elect...but in any case, they are nonsense and lies clearly designed only to destroy good.
You are the one fixating on the color of her skin, while Vox has opined on the content of her character.
Vox hasn't opined on the content of her character in his comments about why he called her a savage.
So really, there's no possible motivation that he might have had to use the word that would disappoint you?
The white liberals in SFWA are probably over-civilized, indoctrinated and without backbone. They aren't 'savages', they're drones.
My guess is that Vox sees a propensity for advocacy for violence or other unscrupulous acts coming from this woman that he doesn't see coming from Scalzi, et al. That may be the difference he sees, and it is an important distinction.
I don't claim to speak for him, just my observation.
The real topic at hand is white fools who run around hyperventilating about name calling when their civilization is going down the drain because of the very ideals these idiots are defending.
They would prefer to see the total destruction of civilization than accept the most obvious of realities that equality does not and never has existed - that Political Correctness is not a lofty ideal, but instead a nasty, pervasive tool being used to take them down.
These same white fools are so busily buying into the lie of PC and Leftist propaganda, they're oblivious to the reality that lies right in front of their stupid noses. Such dolts are aiding and abetting the enemy.
One begins to understand the reason Vox left the US if his circle of acquaintances here included many like this treacherous moron who has chosen to put asunder natural cohesion and replace it with the enmity of the Left's Political Correctness.
jamsco, do you not see that NK made both race and savagery an issue when she falsely claimed that the laws of Texas and Florida give whites carte blanche to kill blacks if they feel threatened? This is a woman who is more concerned with the well being of violent criminals than with the liberty and safety of peaceful people minding their own business, which is a purely anti-civilizational viewpoint.
You seem to be so fearful of giving offense that you're overlooking what should be completely obvious. It's not a habit that will serve you well.
"My guess is that Vox sees a propensity for advocacy for violence or other unscrupulous acts coming from this woman that he doesn't see coming from Scalzi, et al. That may be the difference he sees, and it is an important distinction."
Boy, you guys have to go back and read what Vox actually wrote.
"...those self-defense laws have been put in place to let whites defend their lives and their property from people, like her, who are half-savages engaged in attacking them."
No, this is about being black.
So really, there's no possible motivation that he might have had to use the word that would disappoint you?
Not that I can think of. I'm not typically disappointed by the motives of other people that do not affect me. For example, I have no idea what your motive is in asking that question. There may be many factors. There may be one. There may be none. It has no bearing on my willingness or ability to answer the question.
I spend about zero time questioning the motives of other people, when there is such an abundance of actions that are far easier to judge accurately.
One gets the clear impression that Jamsco becomes quite giddy whenever he imagines he has occasion to be "disappointed" by Vox.
Boy, you guys have to go back and read what Vox actually wrote.
"...those self-defense laws have been put in place to let whites defend their lives and their property from people, like her, who are half-savages engaged in attacking them."
The amusing thing, Jamsco, is that you clearly didn't read what the woman wrote closely enough. Did you truly not notice that I am paraphrasing her?
The fact that you were paraphrasing makes it worse, not better.
"...those self-defense laws have been put in place to let whites defend their lives and their property from people, like her, who are half-savages engaged in attacking them."
No, this is about being black.
Whoa! What? Where in that quote is any mention of her race even a consideration? No offense, but it is kind of racist of you to simply assume that the term 'People who are half-savages' refers exclusively to people with black skin. Skin of the half-savage is not explicit, but the actions (attacking) are.
You seem to have color-blinders on. You are seeing a reference to black where there absolutely is none. I would suggest that's where your motive witch hunt is landing you - in the Dizzying Judgment seat of Feelings.
Just because the term "half-savage" describes blacks to you doesn't mean the term described blacks to me.
Yes, Daniel, I think you've nailed it.
"No offense, but it is kind of racist of you to simply assume that the term 'People who are half-savages' refers exclusively to people with black skin."
Yes, I might have felt foolish if it had turned out that Vox wasn't talking about her blackness. But we now know for certain he was.
Vox, the topic at hand is, "Should Vox have called her a half-savage"
No, Jamsco, that is not the topic at hand. If you want to have that discussion on your blog, that's fine. It's not the topic here. As I said, there can be no reconciliation between the observant and the delusional.
Your position on all things vibrant is not only delusional, it is haplessly, hopelessly, willfully ignorant. That's fine. This would not be the first time that people have argued vociferously that I was wrong, only to admit later that I was right. I merely observe, think, and reflect.
Perhaps I'm incorrect. Perhaps I'm correct. We'll find out in time. I'm just curious how many more cities have to decay, how much more violence has to erupt, before the multiculti enthusiasts admit the obvious.
Also, I thought you didn't care about motivation.
In any case, if you think that I think that I am not at all racist, please be aware that I'm aware that I am not racism-free.
"No, Jamsco, that is not the topic at hand."
Vox, go back and look at the last 100 comments. I bet a third of them from perhaps ten commenters, including you are on the subject of why you used the word savage.
It was at least one of the topics at hand. But I'll stop now. You blog, your rules.
What the PC crowd has done, is treat any use of a word that has been associated with a black stereotype, as the equivalent of a direct racial slur.
But there's a problem with this: Stereotypes are often true, especially for individuals within a set.
So what you PC idiots have done, is make it acceptable to censor uncomfortable truths.
Vox probably hates this type of censorship, so he picks words deliberately to drive a wedge into the issue, exposing the hypocrisy for all to see.
You are censoring truth. You are hypocrites.
The fact that you were paraphrasing makes it worse, not better.
Worse and better are both irrelevant, Jamsco. I don't understand why you're having trouble grasping what I've stated outright before. What part of AFRICANS HAVE BEEN IN REGULAR CONTACT WITH ADVANCED CIVILIZATION FOR ONE-HALF THE TIME THAT WAS HISTORICALLY REQUIRED FOR NORTHERN EUROPEANS TO BECOME FULLY CIVILIZED are you having trouble understanding? How could that undeniable fact not apply to Jemisin or anyone else of a sufficiently similar genetic background?
What part of my response to Jill, pointing out that it's not one thing or the other, but both, did you not understand?
Now, it is certainly possible that I am wrong. Perhaps the magic of geography, or the Internet, or Disney movies seen in childhood have somehow sped up this historical process. However, not a single person who has been gasping in horror at the obvious implications of the factual situation has produced a scrap of evidence in support of their ahistorical, illogical assumption.
My position is hardly new. The ancient Greeks would have thought you a complete madman.
"Your position on all things vibrant is not only delusional"
But since you bring it up, I would like to know what part of my position you think is delusional.
I don't care what your motive is in describing black people as half-savages, jamsco, and I don't care how racism-free you may be. I simply don't agree with you that the quote you quoted had anything to do with blackness. Vox is accusing this writer of being half-savage, not of being black, as if there was anything she could do about that factor. You are really failing to read the words for what they mean. Your quote did not support your thesis.
She behaves like an educated barbarian, which is a little like a tame rattlesnake. Scalzi and his squeechums dance around people like her like she's the benevolent May Queen, and they don't even feign shock when asked to sacrifice one of their own on her altar.
"when they are asked by The Hague or Strasbourg"
What the heck kind of fantasy world are you living in that any of this would warrant being heard about at The Hague or Strasbourg? There isn't a court in the world that would find N.K. Jemisin guilty of "hate speech". Especially not the US Justice system which requires passing the "imminent danger" test.
As for the Australian system,, “unlawful for a person to do an act, otherwise than in private, if the act is reasonably likely, in all the circumstances, to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a group of people; and the act is done because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the other person, or of some or all of the people in the group." That's what you have to prove. Good luck with that.
Vox, Daniel, Shhhh.
This isn't the topic at hand, remember?
Markku's going to come and delete your comments right out of here.
Note that I said OFTEN true. I evaluate everyone as an individual, and I am sure Vox does as well.
When it comes to bigoted pieces of trash like this individual the feud is about, why are you PC idiots more concerned with the specific word used, rather than looking at her despicable behavior?
I'll tell you why: because you're racists. It's more important for you to destroy any shred of pro-white anything you think you can dig up, and that's far more important to you than exposing a black, bigoted racist.
As usual, the ones crying raciss ARE the racists.
OT, but every time I comment, I have to search and find the spot where it says
1 – 200 of 264 Newer› Newest»
click on it and drag down to the bottom. Is there a way around that?
I would like to know what part of my position you think is delusional.
That merits its own discussion. Some other time.
"That merits its own discussion. Some other time."
Fair enough. I just ask that you don't say that I believe things I don't believe.
Your record on this isn't stellar. Even in these comments.
Political Correctness makes people imagine they're thoughtful, better humans, while the reality is that it makes them unthinking and inhuman.
If biology were to adopt PC, life itself would not be possible. Were it not for inequality, every sperm would penetrate the egg or none of the sperm would. Either way, life itself would not be possible. Eggs are total bigots, accepting only the most able and swiftest sperm, then shuts out those millions of other sperm who through no fault of their own could not reach the egg in time!
Political Correctness destroys life on every level.
I think we all know the real reason Daniel could never be disappointed in Vox. Rabbit's gonna rabbit, after all.
That merits its own discussion. Some other time.
Discussions to prove the wetness of water will never be sufficient to those who fail to grasp the concept.
Perhaps one day they will have a bucket of water thrown in their face, whence they may begin to understand. Even then, it may not be sufficient to prove to them that ALL water is wet.
"using the numbers they [the Arabs] devised to help us find our way"
The ignorance in that one is strong indeed.
Bob k mando, I dont know if I want a child. My chief complaint about my guy is that he's not that hard. So what if he's married?
I've noticed a certain ... lack of logic ... in an unrelated statement by N. K. Jemsin. She once claimed that magic in fantasy shouldn't have to "make sense" because it's "kinda woo-woo and frou-frou." I devoted a post on my Fantastic Worlds SF blog to analyzing exactly why this is nonsense -- magic must make sense in the context of its own world if it is to be believable and hence avoid violating verisimilitude. It's here at
http://fantasticworlds-jordan179.blogspot.com/2012/06/why-magic-has-to-make-sense.html
I welcome comments.
Oh, and Arabic numerals derive from the Indians. The funny thing about this is that it's utterly irrelevant to the issue of white versus non-white creativity, since both Arabs and Indians are Caucasians -- just like most Europeans.
The correct term for a female circle jerk is a "Meat Curtain Roundup".
feministx June 13, 2013 7:14 PM
Bob k mando, I dont know if I want a child.
http://feministx.wordpress.com/2013/05/31/baby/
"If I don’t do this, I’ll be a biological failure."
nope, you don't want a baby, not one little bit.
maybe if you commit 'adultery' ( not legally OR colloquially possible if'n you aren't actually IN a marriage yourself, but whatever ) against your alpha boyfriend you'll find a beta cock actually willing to support a household for you and whatever children you may or may not decide to have?
http://feministx.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/adultery/
feministx June 13, 2013 7:14 PM
So what if he's married?
so what if the legal, emotional and familial claims of another woman prevent him from devoting his full attention to you and providing you with an adequate nest in which to drop your eggs?
have you considered some grease for that hamster wheel?
My chief complaint about my guy is that he's not that hard. So what if he's married?
It appears we'll have explain this to you slowly. Would you consider it to be wrong if John Scalzi raped you?
VD:
While you've said, in the past, that you write mostly for your own amusement, I understand that's not entirely the case here. But I'm not sure to whom this post is directed. In a comment above, you implied that you employ rhetoric lest the rabbits hop away. But no matter how sharp your rhetoric is, you know as well as everyone else here that the rabbits will bound off in a furry fury at your "half-savage" remarks, however well-reasoned they may be. If your aim is to persuade, and persuade rabbits of all people (kind of a funny phrase), why make such provocative remarks? It strikes me that it's either an unusual slip in your typically carefully constructed posts or a measured gambit intended to advance by an inch your controversial thinking further into mainstream strongholds (could you be that crazy?). Either way, it seems to compromise the basic purpose of the post. Will you explain?
Jordan179: magic must make sense in the context of its own world if it is to be believable and hence avoid violating verisimilitude.
Of course it must make sense. It must also have limitations and a cost, both to the caster and to the society in which the caster lives.
Let's say that I had a magic wand that would do anything from poaching an egg to turning away a meteor. It did anything I wanted, without limitation or cost, the instant I wanted it. How could you possibly write a story that contained any drama or tension? I might as well be God, and you might as well write a story about a man who is able to overcome a beetle that has wondered onto his sidewalk. If magic can do anything, then there is no story.
What you're dealing with is a fantasy writer who does not understand fantasy. Sadly, it's less unusual than one might hope.
El Borak June 13, 2013 8:47 PM
What you're dealing with is a fantasy writer who does not understand fantasy. Sadly, it's less unusual than one might hope.
you'll have that when educated half-savages regularly get published.
i will say that Vox's introduction of the 'historical half-life to civilizational complexity' theorem serves no tactical purpose in this specific instance wrt Jemisin. all it does is provide distraction for people like jamsco and Jill ( maybe it's all about names that start J? what's the half-life to civilization for them? ) the rabbits were going to dig in their heels and squeal with or without that.
whether he's got a strategic point in mind which hasn't been revealed yet ... i dunno about that.
srg June 13, 2013 8:39 PM
It strikes me that it's either an unusual slip in your typically carefully constructed posts
Vox spent a couple of posts trying to convince me that Fascism and National Socialism were completely unrelated political philosophies.
using rhetoric.
which i disposed of as easily as you would expect me too, once i had identified that he had no intention of actually reasoning ( i had expected him to present an Italian specific theory of politics, with which we in the Anglo world would necessarily be unfamiliar due to the language barrier ) with me.
unfortunately, he had to make a liar out of himself and violate the first rule of the blog in order to troll me.
1. You will be addressed in the style you choose. If you come in here slinging insults and acting disrespectfully, you will be treated with a contemptuous and derisive disdain that will, based on past experience, probably upset you.
this incident served no purpose other than to attempt to amuse him and, possibly, to shit test me for intelligence, reasoning and maturity levels.
bkm i will say that Vox's introduction of the 'historical half-life to civilizational complexity' theorem serves no tactical purpose...
I would argue that it serves only a tactical purpose, though I do not understand what it is. The fact that it took ten centuries or more for the Germans to grow civilized is an interesting but irrelevant factoid. The truth is that the Germans were not in contact with Rome for a millennium, nor were the Brits (the Celtic Brits, not the Angle/Saxon English, who arrived in Britain after the Romans had left). They were in contact for a few centuries at most, depending upon when one starts the count. Then some probably random number of centuries later, we see them as 'civilized.' It's wholly unpersuasive as history, which leaves the argument as useful only as a rhetorical ploy.
Why should not Africans in America become civilized in only a few generations?* Upon their arrival on these shores they were immersed in a more civilized culture, whereas the Brits merely lived outside the walls of one. The point is not that one group is smarter or better than the other, but that the circumstances of their potential civilization are wholly different. To answer the oft-asked question, Africans in America could become civilized in America faster than Brits in Britain because they were cut off from the source of their uncivilization. Brits could retreat to Scotland and paint their asses blue; Africans in Missouri could not.
This is not to argue that any particular group is not "half civilized" at any point in time. It is simply to say that century counts are irrelevant. History doesn't really work that way.
* I expect my own black children to be civilized by the age of 5
Space Bunny Damn
Frog I think you meant venerable Medusa.
It is becoming increasingly and disgustingly obvious that the anti-Christ will certainly have to be black. Christians like Jamsco will run to his rescue every time anyone denounces his atrocities. Rather than being deceived, I believe many are spineless idiots who would rather be well-thought of than stand against the evils and delusions of the ruling class, and the mindless zombies who support it.
Jamsco is a bootlicker to a ruinous ideology that has slaughtered millions of people - in the name of equality and tolerance.
Alauda June 13, 2013 9:33 PM
I'm sure Jemisin is a thousand times the writer you are, Vox.
if by which you mean menopausal African-American were-seal porn, yeah, i bet she writes 1000x more of that than Vox.
oh, you meant a thousand times BETTER than Vox.
so sorry for the misunderstanding.
Anonagain June 13, 2013 9:55 PM
It is becoming increasingly and disgustingly obvious that the anti-Christ will certainly have to be black.
don't be so sure of that. anglos, norwegians, swedes and icelanders all claim to be descended from Magog.
and the genealogies of kings are thrown out of the historical record because it is 'assumed' that they were falsified in order to provide a link to Biblical figures due to trying to suck up to Christianity ...
i tell you what, humanists will lie about any old thing that strikes their fancy.
Roll a cigarette
Somebody bring me a beer
Ah now, all is clear
Sorry, guys and gals. I just felt an haiku coming on.
if by which you mean menopausal African-American were-seal porn...
Dude, seriously, today I saw a tweet* promising to boycott Vox by a woman whose last work was, and I quote, "Silver Moon, a novel about menopausal werewolves, and its sequel in progress, Blood Moon**"
Swear to God you can't make this stuff up...
* since deleted.
** am I the only one who thinks the novels are in the wrong order?
ProSig June 13, 2013 10:23 AM "Do they actually teach, though?"
"Yes. Few public school teachers that I have encountered view themselves as baby sitters. Most of them are extremely dedicated to their profession and are good at it.
This is sarcasm, I hope. How "dedicated" does a 90-IQ 250-pound mulatto have to be to hand out 10-YO busywork worksheets, then plop her large butt into a chair with a People magazine? Look, it's different in the schools than pre-1980 or so. Now, nearly all the smart women go do something other than be teachers -- scientists, doctors, health technicians, engineers, managers, lawyers, you name it. That leaves the misfits and retards to be the primary influences on your child during working hours.
Homeschool if you don't send your kid to one of the (relatively unusual) decent private schools.
"It's wholly unpersuasive as history, which leaves the argument as useful only as a rhetorical ploy."
One thing that you have not considered is the spread of Christianity to the barbarians of Europe. Once the seed of Christianity was planted it spread even after the Roman Empire declined and direct contact was cut off. For example, Christianity had spread to England by the early 300s and Roman soldiers left the region in the early 400s, yet Christianity continued to spread while the Roman Empire was declining. A few hundred years later Pope Gregory sent missionaries to convert the rest of the region.
The influence of Christianity in transforming Europe from naked barbarism to an advanced civilization cannot be understated. The point is that VD's argument is much more than merely a "rhetorical ploy."
"Why should not Africans in America become civilized in only a few generations?"
The better question you should ask yourself is why should they? Why, for the first time in human history, should this time be different? Africans have already been here a few generations, yet are still demonstrably less civilized than the European, Asian, and Hispanic culture groups. The Africans in the United States are more civilized than those currently living in their ancestral homelands.
The point is that it hasn't happened yet, and based on historical precedent we shouldn't expect it to happen anytime soon.
Alauda June 13, 2013 10:18 PM
As opposed to generic fantasy with elves and dwarves and orcs and goblins? Where nothing actually happens?
"nothing" happens? Teddy didn't answer the question of whether or not elves have souls? that's too bad. John C. Wright raised the question of whether or not members of Greco-Roman pantheon could worship the judeo-christian God and he did it before Teddy wrote Summa. i would hope VD went a little further than Wright did.
i haven't read Summa so i can't intelligently discuss it but there seem to be quite a few who disagree with your assessment:
http://www.amazon.com/Summa-Elvetica-Casuistry-Elvish-Controversy/dp/0982104928
the vast majority of reviews are either 4 or 5 star.
perhaps you're simply not equipped to grasp it's point?
Revan: One thing that you have not considered is the spread of Christianity to the barbarians of Europe.
I did not neglect it, it is merely irrelevant to century counts. You are not incorrect, but there is no way to assign a number that says, "it takes this many centuries for the Cross to civilize barbarians."
Africans have already been here a few generations, yet are still demonstrably less civilized than the European, Asian, and Hispanic culture groups.
I would go further: they are less civilized than they were a half century ago and maybe even a century ago. Take a look at any picture of blacks in the 1910s, 40s, even up to '65. Read the works of Booker T. Washington and W.E.B Dubois. Then compare them to what passes as black culture today. Yes, it's a matter of comparing the best of one age to the average of another, but the point is clear that there has been no progress, only regress.
And if that point is true, it's another nail in the coffin of the argument that civilization takes X years. In some cases it might. But that it did in one well-documented case is no argument that it must in another. Civilization rises and falls in nations as well as groups. But to assign years as necessary to it is an historical determinism not supported by history.
"I'm sure Jemisin is a thousand times the writer you are, Vox."
Well there's no way to be sure until they both have Deviant Art accounts to post their stories on. Am I right?
I've not read Jemisin but I've read Day. Day wrote the worst thing I've ever read.
Seriously, save it, dude. My one and only review of Vox's work was not a positive one. But still, there are far, far worse writers out there. I'll even confess to being one of them.
So if you're going to be an anklebiting dickweed, at least make an attempt to be a convincing one. The only way Vox is the worst thing you've ever read is if he's the only thing you've ever read. Which would also make him the best thing you've ever read.
Then how do you explain this. Or is posting on a space "where art meets application" not considered making one's works public.
Then how do you explain this
She doesn't. She's just making noises hoping that other rabbits will hear the signal. Of the seven billion people on the planet, or at least the 2 thousand million who can put words to paper, Vox happens to be the singular essence of Vogon poetry? It's not even a good insult. It's just noise. bzz. bzz. pay attention to me lest I be slain on the altar of irrelevance. bzz. bzz.
Oh just shut up and go away Alauda.
This blog deserves a better class of anklebiters. Obvious is better than you, and he's horrible.
@tbg "Coach John Madden and I respectfully request that you leave irrational airplane thoughts out of this discussion."
Don't you oppress me! Aerophobe!
@Obvious "Not publishing/hiring Vox Day because he's a racist, misogynist, anti-Semite isn't a violation of anti-discrimination laws. Vox is allowed to say what he wants, and people are allowed to not hire him for saying those things."
Isn't it a form of discrimination that racist misogynist anti-semites are not protected by anti-discrimination laws? Don't all people have equal protection under the law in democracy? So,in effect are you not saying that racist,misogynist, anti-semites are not people?
How would that be any different than saying women,jews,or blacks shouldn't be protected under anti-discrimination laws?
Aren't you people always saying that racists,anti-semites, and misogynists are stupid or ignorant or something?
Isn't that ....ableism or whatever you call it?
Why is it okay for you to discriminate against racist,misogynist,anti-semites who are people who your side has claimed to be mentally-handicapped without proof, but yet it is not okay for someone like myself to say the same thing of gays,for instance, who were classified as mentally-ill by most doctors until they changed the definition under political pressure from leftists?
Attempt to conflate as you will the definitions of freedom of speech and the anti-discrimination laws, which are intended to protect identifiable groups,it is a betrayal of the egalitiarian principle upon which you stand to condemn Vox, which advocates the same protections given to every single person,regardless of any other factors. Like it or not, the moment you pointed your finger at Vox and screamed "RACIST! ANTI-SEMITE! MISOGYNIST!" you placed him in an identifiable group,entitling him to protection under equalitarianism and democratic principles which form the moral foundation of your emotional argument.
You are discriminating against people who have different views from yourself at the very least, and possibly discriminating against people you view to be of an inferior intellectual quality, which would require you to denounce yourself as an "ableist" in order to continue to hold any moral authority whatsoever.
However,if you persist in promoting the view that discrimination against certain groups is good,desirable,or unimportant, then why don't we have that discussion instead?
Why is discrimination against humans who appear to be racist better than discrimination against humans who appear to be African?
Explain,in other words,how the people you advocate discrimination against are more deserving of discrimination than,say, a racist homosexual black woman?
Alauda June 13, 2013 11:25 PM
The people who are worse writers than Vox Day have the good sense to not make their works public.
oh, bullshit.
i've read some of Vox's shorts on here and he's a damn sight better than Dennis L. McKiernan.
crappy writers are typically incapable of discerning that their writing is crap. that inability to self-examine is a large part of WHY their writing is crap.
Vox knows that he's not a great fiction writer and he'll tell you that himself.
El Borak June 13, 2013 11:41 PM
Of the seven billion people on the planet, or at least the 2 thousand million who can put words to paper,
YamaTheSpaceFish
Vox Day has at least one hundred and seventy five followers and that depresses the fuck out of me.
y'all hear that? 175 people following Vox depresses Yama. 175 out of 7 Beeeellion.
y'all think that Obama not being able to staff his White House with people who DON'T fellate the memory of the most murderous mass murdering murderer in the history of the world ( Mao ) bothers Yama one tiny little bit?
come on, Yama. 100 million slaughtered. you can at least give us a crocodile tear for that. and multiple members of Obama's administration are proud to declare their membership in the Communist Party or 'admiration' for Mao.
TWO. you can give us TWO tears for that.
As an aerophile since I was a little kid, I despise aerophobes. Some of the best times in my life happened when I lost airplanes I had designed and built, in thermals. There is nothing to compare to the feeling you get when you toss something with your hand, which you have built, and just watch it go up and up, until it goes OOS overhead. You feel like the Juggler of Our Lady in that Anatole France story.
I remember reading a book written by Reeve Lindbergh, Charles's daughter. She didn't seem to care about flying at all. When her dad, Charles Augustus Lindbergh himself, took her flying, she thought it was boring. She turned down her Dad's offer to teach her to fly. For free. I cannot imagine turning down free flying lessons from Lindbergh, 'specially if he were my Dad. The book is pretty much ate up with feminism.
I cannot imagine turning down free flying lessons from Lindbergh, 'specially if he were my Dad
Well, shit, since you can't imagine it, it must mean that it's because women are dumb! Amirite? I mean, teenagers never think that the shit their parents do is dumb, and there's no possible way that someone could find flying boring.
Obvious June 14, 2013 1:09 AM
Well, shit, since you can't imagine it, it must mean that it's because women are dumb!
the first aerophobe mentioned by name in this thread was ... John Madden.
that's the whole reason why Justthisguy posted on this subject.
you dumbass retard.
oh, sorry, i shouldn't have characterized you like that. on second thought i can see how, if he grew his hair out, you could mistake Madden for Nielsen Hayden.
John Madden, a post menopausal, post op Nielsen Hayden? i'd have never realized that had you not posted.
thanks ever so much.
"since you can't imagine it, it must mean that it's because women are dumb"
You're concussion is write, but you used a non sequitur to reach it, so you must be invalid.
"Amirite? "
As far as teenagers saying and doing stupid, shortsighted, spiting-face-by-offing-nose type of sh*t for the sake of trend, yes.
And in a small way, you've furnished a very clear parallel of how folks here view your words and proposals. Without, for the most part, the parental concern.
Matthew June 14, 2013 1:22 AM
You're concussion is write,
my brain hurts so hard right now ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrjHKMJTh1w
bob k. mando, you read my brain. Such as it is.
I've not read Jemisin but I've read Day. Day wrote the worst thing I've ever read.
I was going to say that's impossible, but then it occurred to me you may not proof read your posts before hitting the submit button.
would go further: they are less civilized than they were a half century ago and maybe even a century ago. Take a look at any picture of blacks in the 1910s, 40s, even up to '65. Read the works of Booker T. Washington and W.E.B Dubois. Then compare them to what passes as black culture today. Yes, it's a matter of comparing the best of one age to the average of another, but the point is clear that there has been no progress, only regress.
This is very true, but then the same is objectivley true of whites in America too. Quoting myself from earlier "... no one is really entirely civilized. Every society falls a little short. I think the difference is how a culture responds to it's savagery. Do they look at it with a certain amount of embarrassment, perhaps consider it an occasionally necessary evil, or do they celebrate it?..."
At some point, as a culture - white, black, male, female - we stopped being embarrassed at our lapses in civilization. We started celebrating degenerates, regressives. Half-savages became our heroes, whether they were jive talkin' inner city blacks, pot-smoking white hippies, or murderous latins wearing stylish berets. Now we're starting the transition from celebrating half-savages to celebrating total savages.
It is Jemisin herself who uses phrases like "the straight white men at the core of SFF," as does John Scalzi and others in the SFWA. The implication of this separate "other" as they use the term is negative 100% of the time. In other words, the straight, white, male is a drag on proper civilization.
The problem is that once the SFWA goes along that rhetorical path, it is equally valid to suppose or argue that "other" might in fact have a superior value system and act as the opposite of being a drag on proper civilization.
But when VD argues "there is no evidence to be found anywhere on the planet that a society of NK Jemisins is capable of building an advanced civilization, or even successfully maintaining one without significant external support from those white males," suddenly the very same thought processes the SFWA uses to arrive at a conclusion is vicious racism. In other words, don't say the straight, white, male the SFWA has made up out of their heads might be a positive thing. That is not possible. That is racism.
Well, I agree: the standard the SFWA puts forward and supports is vicious racism. The SFWA wants to have their cake and eat it too, and walk away like this racialist thinking is one they have nothing to do with and never use. In fact it is the very bedrock on which the SFWA thrives and which WisCon is built around. Surprise, Jemisin is Guest of Honor at next year's WisCon.
Short version: the SFWA are bigoted liars and hypocrites. If I were them, I'd be censoring the crap out of everything too.
It is Jemisin herself who uses phrases like "the straight white men at the core of SFF," as does John Scalzi and others in the SFWA. The implication of this separate "other" as they use the term is negative 100% of the time. In other words, the straight, white, male is a drag on proper civilization.
The problem is that once the SFWA goes along that rhetorical path, it is equally valid to suppose or argue that "other" might in fact have a superior value system and act as the opposite of being a drag on proper civilization.
Indeed. By treating straight white masculinity as bad, they allow attacks based on sexual orientation, race and sex; and once this is allowed, there is no guarantee that such attacks will only fall on the orientations, races and sexes whom they choose to disfavor. And based on the historical evidence, whites and men have achieved more per capita than blacks and women (one could argue the opposite for gays depending on the definition of "gay", as many supposed gays were actually bisexual -- though of course straights vastly outnumber gays).
I, personally, don't approve of treating race, sex or orientation as inherently bad. But this cuts both ways, and I find the SFWA's treatment of straightness, whiteness and maleness as "bad" despicable: the more so because they do not permit debate on this topic.
Who is John Scalzi ? I assume it would be wrong for him to rape me, yes. Point being?
At some point, as a culture - white, black, male, female - we stopped being embarrassed at our lapses in civilization. We started celebrating degenerates, regressives. Half-savages became our heroes, whether they were jive talkin' inner city blacks, pot-smoking white hippies, or murderous latins wearing stylish berets. Now we're starting the transition from celebrating half-savages to celebrating total savages.
I wouldn't be quite so hard on ourselves, just yet. It sure looks like we are celebrating half-savages more than ever, but I don't think it's the case. Between pop culture and mass-consumerism, it seems that way, but I suspect it's the same rate of idiot worship that we've always have, it's just quite a bit louder than in the past.
feministx June 14, 2013 8:36 AM
Who is John Scalzi ?
outgoing president of the Science Fiction Writers of America and published SF/F author.
he's where Heartiste got the term "Scalzied" from. he's also one of the audio samples used in the music file that's attached to the Rapey McRaperson rabbit up in the left sidebar of this blog.
I assume it would be wrong for him to rape me, yes.
On what grounds to you assume this? What is your basis for asserting that his raping you would be wrong?
Point being?
Patience, grasshopper. All will become clear soon enough.
Out of curiosity - what, if anything, does Patrick Neilsen Hayden taking his wife's name (or rather, sharing it, as that looks to be a hyphenated name) have to do with fuck all? Thrown out there as it was, it clashes heartily with the rest of your rant.
What a strange, depressing man you are. And how fearful and strange and depressing many of the folks in the comments are.
This post is full of logical fallacies that sort of laugh in the face of psychology and history, but . . . it's not even worth getting into them with you. If you've ignored facts up to this point in your life, there's no real any evidence that you'd start taking them into consideration now.
As you noted, "There can be no reconciliation between the observant and the delusional."
What a strange, depressing man you are. And how fearful and strange and depressing many of the folks in the comments are.
Hop along, little rabbit. You couldn't name a logical fallacy, let alone identify one in this post, if you were paid for it.
I'm amused. But I don't think it's useful for you to make assumptions about my intellectual abilities. Or, apparently, my species.
"The correct term for a female circle jerk is a "Meat Curtain Roundup"."
And here I thought it was "book club."
This comment has been removed by the author.
It's very easy to be callous and disrespectful brave behind the internet, to liken black people to savages and women (even your own wife!) to rabbits. I suppose it is some comfort, knowing no one can really hurt you behind your computer screen. It's rather hilarious-- you're willing to do a public debate! Provided...it's online. In your safe space.
Here is what pleases me, though-- you talk a very impressive game, and like any child throwing a tantrum, you've managed to get the attention of the adults in the room. And again, like any child throwing a tantrum-- once the screaming and crying is done, you really have little to say and a small audience to say it to. I work with a publisher, and can see that your sales are precious, tiny things.
So, perhaps I shouldn't blame or vilify you for throwing another hate-mongering, sexist tantrum. I wouldn't blame a child, after all, who is being ignored by his peers for screaming to get a little one-on-one attention. But please-- hop along, little rabbit. The adults are trying to have a civilization here and the noise you're making is very distracting.
Jackson Pearce, you are an unconscionable liar, and an incompetent one at that. I almost have pity for these droogs of the educational underclass, who haven't the most basic training to snip the most obvious tangles in the web of lies. Flaming out during paragraph one is just an embarrassment to whatever race you with which you might identify.
"It's rather hilarious-- you're willing to do a public debate! Provided...it's online. In your safe space."
So you are saying that the people VD has challenged to a public debate are so uncivilized that the very words that come out of his mouth would likely result in a violent response? It is much easier to threaten physical violence online, in your safe space...
I don't have much informarion about this guy. Maybe .1% of guys could rape me at random and be of a caliber that would make the act easily forgivable. So nothing personal against this fellow. Odds are he isn't good rapist material.
And rape man would have to fulfill his role in capturing me away and keeping me as his own for ever and ever for the rape issue to be attractive. I mean, forever unless I found someone cooler I wanted to dump him for of course.
feministx
I don't have much informarion about this guy. Maybe .1% of guys could rape me at random and be of a caliber that would make the act easily forgivable. So nothing personal against this fellow. Odds are he isn't good rapist material.
And rape man would have to fulfill his role in capturing me away and keeping me as his own for ever and ever for the rape issue to be attractive. I mean, forever unless I found someone cooler I wanted to dump him for of course.
Hold up a second, you are really saying that .1% of guys could rape you and you would be fine with it if they were cool enough?
That comment alone sets the whole feminist movement back about 100 years. Well done.
It's rather hilarious-- you're willing to do a public debate! Provided...it's online. In your safe space.
If you'd like to fly to Europe and do it here, that's certainly fine too.
"Hold up a second, you are really saying that .1% of guys could rape you and you would be fine with it if they were cool enough?"
It gets better, since there are 7 billion people in the world with about 3.5 billion being men, .1% of 3.5 billion is 3.5 million, so either there are actually 3.5 million guys out there who could rape her and she could easily forgive them, or math is hard. I'll wait for clarification.
Actually, lets narrow the rape consideration population to white and asiatic men living in the first world. .1% of that. That's my general relationship cohort. Beggars in bangladesh were already filtered out implicitlty in my .1% of men comment.
[Maggie Stiefvater About me: ...and a 1973 Camaro named Loki...]
BWAHAHAHAHA! That's friggin hilarious! Good one.
"Beggars in bangladesh were already filtered out implicitlty in my .1% of men comment."
Fair enough, I do have a couple of questions though:
1. Roughly how many men do you think there are in the world that could rape you and you would easily forgive them.
2. Can you name names?
1. Roughly how many men do you think there are in the world that could rape you and you would easily forgive them.
Hard to say without directly observing the populations in several European countries. I am aware that the percentage of superficially attractive Dutch men is high. Some countries are surprisingly low (Czech men are largely unattractive, for example- wouldn't have known that without going there). I live in Manhattan, which probably inflates my estimate as a lot of men here are superficially attractive.
2. Can you name names?
Easy. Josh Groban, Ivan Vasiliev, Billy Zane, Barrack Obama. He's not even white, but he'd do fine if such an act struck his fancy (which I am sure it would not in reality).
Also, part of the issue in estimating the forgivable rapist population is that some moderately attractive men who are not now that strikingly attractive could be superficially more attractive if they harbored a serious desire to capture me and force me to be their personal whore. Someone like Joseph Gordon Levitt is attractive to me though not really that compelling. But if in his mind he became a diabolical rapist with a preferably monogamous interest in me, he'd become more attractive. So the .1% figure is including men who would be that .1% if they wanted to be the dashing and acceptable rapist even though right now, they don't all harbor that desire.
Spacebunny....
*SCHWING!*
since both Arabs and Indians are Caucasians -- just like most Europeans.
This classification is bad, done by scientists who just looked at visible characteristics and lumped people into three(four) categories, Caucasians(Indo-europeans), Negroids, Mongoloids and maybe as fourth Australoids.
I personally refuse to be put in the same race as indians (does a typical indian looks like an ordinary serbian or bulgarian or romanian?).
negroids should be splitted into at least two races, mongoloids into at least two races, and caucasians into many more, seven I would say (or course this is just off the top of my head).
Holy SHIT, this is real? I thought this was the 21st century, not the 19th.
This is what is so annoying about you normal people, you social monkeys. This is why autistic guys bang their heads on walls, risking concussions and brain damage, rather than engage with some of y'all. Most humans are not very rational. Some of us are rational, sometimes.
I have corresponded on the net with a woman who set herself up for brutal rape and got no takers. She advertised that she would be sitting in a particular bar in a named hotel in a named city from noon to 6 pm on a particular day, hoping that somebody would grab her, brutally rape her and leave her tied to a tree or something. She waited, and waited, getting drunker and drunker, but nobody showed up to ravish her. Yah, she's one of us auties. Apparently it didn't occur to her that most people would see that as some kind of scam, and shy away.
Huh, attractive NY girl- who identifies as a feminist- who wants to be forced into being the slave of a man. (And I thought Game Theory was flawed! /snark)
Well, I say good for you. If you know what you want with your life, mainly kids and to be someone's willing toy/ wife, you won't have a hard time finding it. I wish that your next choice is more fulfilling than your current one.
But the fact is that talent, originality, and work ethic are not distributed equally throughout the global population, and attempts to rectify that inequitable distribution will inevitable bring about negative consequences.
Despite my rather strenuous disagreement with you on a number of issues (the idea of me as a "half-savage" being just one of them), I completely agree with this particular snippet from your post.
I love this guy, he's got the balls to say out loud what many people only think.
Can't say I agree with everything, but on most cases VD is spot on when it comes to judge of motive and character. Enjoyin' it.
After reading your disturbing post I have to say that you proved over and over again, with your very own words that you aren't simply a typical racist but one that would probably feel right at home in a room full of White Power freaks. From what I've been reading in comments it looks like a large number of your followers are cut from the same cloth as you are. Based completely on your words alone I am glad that you didn't win the position.
And I suppose you're the epitome of civilization? What does a right-wing fundamentalist southern Baptist do that's "civilized"? - fuck his sister? Sodomize pigs and goats? Masturbate with his own gun? Beat his wife with a copy of the Bible? Dress in white sheets while spewing the kind of racist garbage that Hitler would be proud of?
Too bad your mum didn't abort you. At least you're an old fuck who will die before me, so I can laugh over how few people come to your funeral.
I am Shannon by name. Greetings to every one that is reading this testimony. I have been rejected by my husband after three(3) years of marriage just because another woman had a spell on him and he left me and the kid to suffer. one day when i was reading through the web, i saw a post on how this spell caster on this address aisabulovespell@gmail.com, have help a woman to get back her husband and i gave him a reply to his address and he told me that a woman had a spell on my husband and he told me that he will help me and after 3 days that i will have my husband back. i believed him and today i am glad to let you all know that this spell caster have the power to bring lovers back. because i am now happy with my husband. Thanks for Dr.Aisabu. His email: aisabulovespell@gmail.com .....
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You and you wife are sociopaths and your children are infected with your disease. This is why we have the 2nd amendment so real humans can deal with sociopaths in correct manner.
Hello Vox.
Randomly found this article after trying to figure out what an elven word in one of your books meant.
Do keep fighting the culture war on our behalf. Stay rational and follow the truth to where you think it leads.
Because for the rest of us, all reading about this creeping cultural Marxism does is piss us off and get in the way of tending our own garden. Which is why I try to avoid this type of content.
Still I think it's great that people like you are pushing back and I am pleased to have supported you by buying your first two fantasy books.
They're based in reality and it's fun to spot the red pill truths woven in them.
Unlike this magical-special-from-out-of-nowhere-universe-revolves-around-me fiction this woman creates.
Keep up the momentum.
Regards
Richard
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