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Friday, June 28, 2013

It's not science, but it sure looks like fiction

Now, I'm not at all surprised that the SFWA warren is hopping madly with news of a shocking sexual harassment scandal now that it has been made clear by the SFWA owsla that it is open season on all non-crossdressing men in the organization - and at the annual gathering of angry land whales known as WisCon, no less - but even I assumed it would take more than a few weeks before the next inevitable pinkshirt scandal exploded all over the increasingly dysfunctional organization's face.

As it happens, I may actually have met know the woman who is accusing a Tor editor of sexual harassment.  If Elise Matthesen is the same the Elise I knew back in the late nineties, she was a completely useless and not terribly ornamental member of an otherwise excellent writing group in Minneapolis, she never actually did any writing, and all she wanted to do was talk about herself and babble about feminism, sexual harassment, and so forth.  And if  since it is her, I will not be at all surprised if it is eventually determined by the publishing house and the convention alike that the "harassment" was nothing more than a product of her fevered but uncreative imagination.

According to Ms Matthesen, the gentleman who sexually harassed her was a Tor editor, albeit one of the old school Tor editors who actually published genuine science fiction once upon a time: "My name is Sigrid Ellis. I was one of the co-hosts of the party Elise mentions. The person Elise reported for harassment is James Frenkel."

Now, I have no idea what actually happened, nor do I care in the slightest, but I have to say, I'm a little bit dubious surprised to learn that it is the Elise of my erstwhile acquaintance, not because she appears to have made a false claim of sexual harassment, (if you'd asked me about her yesterday, I'd have told you that I'd be surprised if she didn't have dozens of them to her credit), but because the following account would make for the longest piece of fiction she has ever actually managed to write:
 "We’re geeks. We learn things and share, right? Well, this year at WisCon I learned firsthand how to report sexual harassment. In case you ever need or want to know, here’s what I learned and how it went.

Two editors I knew were throwing a book release party on Friday night at the convention. I was there, standing around with a drink talking about Babylon 5, the work of China Mieville, and Marxist theories of labor (like you do) when an editor from a different house joined the conversation briefly and decided to do the thing that I reported. A minute or two after he left, one of the hosts came over to check on me. I was lucky: my host was alert and aware. On hearing what had happened, he gave me the name of a mandated reporter at the company the harasser was representing at the convention.

The mandated reporter was respectful and professional. Even though I knew them, reporting this stuff is scary, especially about someone who’s been with a company for a long time, so I was really glad to be listened to. Since the incident happened during Memorial Day weekend, I was told Human Resources would follow up with me on Tuesday.

There was most of a convention between then and Tuesday, and I didn’t like the thought of more of this nonsense (there’s a polite word for it!) happening, so I went and found a convention Safety staffer. He asked me right away whether I was okay and whether I wanted someone with me while we talked or would rather speak privately. A friend was nearby, a previous Guest of Honor at the convention, and I asked her to stay for the conversation. The Safety person asked whether I’d like to make a formal report. I told him, “I’d just like to tell you what happened informally, I guess, while I figure out what I want to do.”

It may seem odd to hesitate to make a formal report to a convention when one has just called somebody’s employer and begun the process of formally reporting there, but that’s how it was. I think I was a little bit in shock. (I kept shaking my head and thinking, “Dude, seriously??”) So the Safety person closed his notebook and listened attentively. Partway through my account, I said, “Okay, open your notebook, because yeah, this should be official.” Thus began the formal report to the convention. We listed what had happened, when and where, the names of other people who were there when it happened, and so forth. The Safety person told me he would be taking the report up to the next level, checked again to see whether I was okay, and then went.

I had been nervous about doing it, even though the Safety person and the friend sitting with us were people I have known for years. Sitting there, I tried to imagine how nervous I would have been if I were twenty-some years old and at my first convention. What if I were just starting out and had been hoping to show a manuscript to that editor? Would I have thought this kind of behavior was business as usual? What if I were afraid that person would blacklist me if I didn’t make nice and go along with it? If I had been less experienced, less surrounded by people I could call on for strength and encouragement, would I have been able to report it at all?

Well, I actually know the answer to that one: I wouldn’t have. I know this because I did not report it when it happened to me in my twenties. I didn’t report it when it happened to me in my forties either. There are lots of reasons people might not report things, and I’m not going to tell someone they’re wrong for choosing not to report. What I intend to do by writing this is to give some kind of road map to someone who is considering reporting. We’re geeks, right? Learning something and sharing is what we do.

So I reported it to the convention. Somewhere in there they asked, “Shall we use your name?” I thought for a millisecond and said, “Oh, hell yes.”
This is an important thing. A formal report has a name attached. More about this later.

The Safety team kept checking in with me. The coordinators of the convention were promptly involved. Someone told me that since it was the first report, the editor would not be asked to leave the convention. I was surprised it was the first report, but hey, if it was and if that’s the process, follow the process. They told me they had instructed him to keep away from me for the rest of the convention. I thanked them.

Starting on Tuesday, the HR department of his company got in touch with me. They too were respectful and took the incident very seriously. Again I described what, where and when, and who had been present for the incident and aftermath. They asked me if I was making a formal report and wanted my name used. Again I said, “Hell, yes.”

Both HR and Legal were in touch with me over the following weeks. HR called and emailed enough times that my husband started calling them “your good friends at HR.” They also followed through on checking with the other people, and did so with a promptness that was good to see.

Although their behavior was professional and respectful, I was stunned when I found out that mine was the first formal report filed there as well. From various discussions in person and online, I knew for certain that I was not the only one to have reported inappropriate behavior by this person to his employer. It turned out that the previous reports had been made confidentially and not through HR and Legal. Therefore my report was the first one, because it was the first one that had ever been formally recorded.

Corporations (and conventions with formal procedures) live and die by the written word. “Records, or it didn’t happen” is how it works, at least as far as doing anything official about it. So here I was, and here we all were, with a situation where this had definitely happened before, but which we had to treat as if it were the first time — because for formal purposes, it was.

I asked whether people who had originally made confidential reports could go ahead and file formal ones now. There was a bit of confusion around an erroneous answer by someone in another department, but then the person at Legal clearly said that “the past is past” is not an accurate summation of company policy, and that she (and all the other people listed in the company’s publically-available code of conduct) would definitely accept formal reports regardless of whether the behavior took place last week or last year.

If you choose to report, I hope this writing is useful to you. If you’re new to the genre, please be assured that sexual harassment is NOT acceptable business-as-usual. I have had numerous editors tell me that reporting harassment will NOT get you blacklisted, that they WANT the bad apples reported and dealt with, and that this is very important to them, because this kind of thing is bad for everyone and is not okay. The thing is, though, that I’m fifty-two years old, familiar with the field and the world of conventions, moderately well known to many professionals in the field, and relatively well-liked. I’ve got a lot of social credit. And yet even I was nervous and a little in shock when faced with deciding whether or not to report what happened. Even I was thinking, “Oh, God, do I have to? What if this gets really ugly?”

But every time I got that scared feeling in my guts and the sensation of having a target between my shoulder blades, I thought, “How much worse would this be if I were inexperienced, if I were new to the field, if I were a lot younger?” A thousand times worse. So I took a deep breath and squared my shoulders and said, “Hell, yes, use my name.” And while it’s scary to write this now, and while various people are worried that parts of the Internet may fall on my head, I’m going to share the knowledge — because I’m a geek, and that’s what we do.
It should be fascinating to see just how interested the pinkshirts are in continuing their crusade, not against elderly writers and maverick outsiders, but an editor at the largest genre publisher who is married to one of the finest female SF writers.  Especially in light of the fact that his accuser is a well-known whack-job.  Which, of course, doesn't mean she's lying or delusional, only that she'd better be able to produce some evidence or eyewitnesses to back up her claim.

The best part is that the SFWA leadership genuinely believes that it is people like Resnick, Malzberg, and me who are the problem.  They don't realize that they can get rid of every single non-crossdressing male who has ever published in the genre and that won't even slow down the more radical pinkshirts, as those women are so angry, narcissistic, and delusional that they are capable of seeing racism in a stiff breeze and sexual harassment in a handshake.

If I ever went to an SF/F convention, I can only imagine the pinkshirts would no sooner catch sight of me in the distance before they'd burst into tears and start racing for the "mandated reporters" to be the first to claim that I beat them to death and abused their corpses.

Labels: ,

165 Comments:

Anonymous Bah June 28, 2013 2:21 PM  

I was there, standing around with a drink talking about Babylon 5, the work of China Mieville, and Marxist theories of labor (like you do)

I never do that. I hate all those things. Lies and claptrap!

Anonymous Daniel June 28, 2013 2:26 PM  

A proud 60-year old dyke and anexoria survivor gets randomly sexually harrassed by an editor? What'd he do, mistake her for Paul McCartney?

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia June 28, 2013 2:27 PM  

It truly hurts the brain to read about such stupidity.

Anonymous Vidad June 28, 2013 2:33 PM  

Pics:

http://www.midamericon.org/photoarchive/05wfc22.htm

I think I'd rather harass myself, thank you very much.

Anonymous Orville June 28, 2013 2:34 PM  

So they have Betazoid Safety staffers at RapeCon? Brilliant!

Anonymous Dice Clay June 28, 2013 2:37 PM  

I got yer hardcover right here baby.

Anonymous The Deuce June 28, 2013 2:37 PM  

This is her, apparently: http://www.romm.org/4thst08/200806204thst023elisesm.jpg

...aaaand I'd say that pretty much disproves the notion that anyone sexually harassed her.

Anonymous Daniel June 28, 2013 2:38 PM  

Man. Her wiki is an understatement. She didn't just survive anorexia. She crushed its spine and sucked out the marrow.

Anonymous Dan in Tx (hey there sweet stuff, your hair is shorter than mine! wink wink) June 28, 2013 2:39 PM  

Yeah, looking at her pic....why would a man sexually harass a lesbian?

Anonymous Soga June 28, 2013 2:40 PM  

Her class of appearance brings into question the veracity of her claims.

Anonymous EofA June 28, 2013 2:41 PM  

First read this story:

http://theinterrobang.com/2013/05/college-student-fakes-own-rape-threat/

“I want to hate fuck Meg Lanker-Simons so hard. That chick that runs her liberal mouth all the time and doesn’t care who knows it. I think its hot and it makes me angry. One night with me and shes gonna be a good Republican bitch.”

Then look at this:

http://www.romm.org/4thst08/200806204thst023elisesm.jpg

It's called: PROJECTION

Anonymous bob k. mando June 28, 2013 2:43 PM  

more importantly, can anyone identify EXACTLY how Frankel is supposed to have "harassed" her?

i skimmed the essay and i see nothing. did he refer to her as a 'lady'? did he shake her hand 'inappropriately? did he compliment her on her victor over anorexia nervosa? maybe he assaulted her with 'male gaze' because he wasn't wearing his glasses? what the hell?

Anonymous RINO June 28, 2013 2:43 PM  

Why do I keep looking at these pictures that people link? I should know better by now.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein June 28, 2013 2:44 PM  

After seeing her pick.....I can certainly imagine that she had been the victim of a brutal gang....rejection.

Anonymous Lulabelle June 28, 2013 2:45 PM  

Well, her claims have to be true, because while talking to the "Safety staffer" she had a previous Guest of Honor of the convention there to listen to the conversation. See? A Very Important Person heard the whole story!!
Sarcasm off now.
I'm always a bit dubious when someone will only discuss the offense in general terms. What do you want to bet the guy said her dress/blouse/shoes were pretty or somesuch inane drivel?

Anonymous bob k. mando June 28, 2013 2:46 PM  

also, damn, that's a lotta old farts at WisCon. is this evidence that Sci-Fi is losing the youth audience or was that more an authorial get together to practice arts and crafts?

Anonymous FantasticSprite June 28, 2013 2:46 PM  

She's flattering herself to think she was sexually harassed. In truth, it's more likely she concocted the whole thing to feel better about her bad haircut. "See," she said to an uncaring universe, "this haircut made me look so hot, book editor geeks were harassing me to get a piece!"

Anonymous Orville June 28, 2013 2:46 PM  

Gawd almighty Vidad, I just looked through all the convention pics you posted. The vast majority of SFF writers (if they were all writers) have left smoking holes where my eyes were. FUGLY!

Anonymous Dan in Tx June 28, 2013 2:46 PM  

Oh you know you want her RINO.....HARASSER!

Anonymous El Guapo June 28, 2013 2:48 PM  

After looking at the pics, I am inspired to grow my SF writer beard. Not really, just using it as an excuse. Viva la barba!

Anonymous bob k. mando June 28, 2013 2:50 PM  

you know what time it is, don't you?

that's right, it's time to demonstrate once again that feminists are nasty, disgusting ugly hags.

post ALL the pictures of Spacebunny!

Anonymous Lulabelle June 28, 2013 2:50 PM  

"After looking at the pics, I am inspired to grow my SF writer beard. Not really, just using it as an excuse. Viva la barba!"

Well, that's good to know........after looking through those pics, I bet a lot of the women are inspired to grow their SF writer beards also.



Blogger Guitar Man June 28, 2013 2:52 PM  

Was this the guy that harassed her?

http://www.midamericon.org/photoarchive/05wfc041.JPG

Anonymous Krul June 28, 2013 2:54 PM  

Why do I keep looking at these pictures that people link? I should know better by now. -RINO

I'm at work so I can't link a pleasing image to help restore the equilibrium of RINO, et al (and believe me, we need one after looking at those convention pics).

Will someone please heed the call for a refreshing visual balm? Thanks much.

Blogger Bob Wallace June 28, 2013 2:54 PM  

So he meets a lesbian landwhale, decides to sexually harass her for a minute or so, then walks away?

I am very very very very very very dubious about her story. Very very very very very dubious, Okay, I don't believe her at all.

Anonymous jay c June 28, 2013 2:55 PM  

From her website: "One of my nicknames is Lioness. So now you know."

Can I get an eyeroll up in here?

Anonymous Lulabelle June 28, 2013 2:55 PM  

Thanks a lot, Guitar Man.

Anonymous Dan in Tx June 28, 2013 2:56 PM  

OH jeez, thanks Guitar Man, I just swallowed my chewing tobacco.

Anonymous jay c June 28, 2013 2:57 PM  

From wikipedia: "Sexual identities: Bisexual Monosexual Pansexual Polysexual"

Pansexual!? I think that's another word for Freak. With a capital F.

Anonymous Krul June 28, 2013 2:57 PM  

From her website: "One of my nicknames is Lioness. So now you know."

I KNEW she was lion!

Anonymous jay c June 28, 2013 2:59 PM  

Vox, aren't you proud to be counted among their number?

Anonymous Noah B. June 28, 2013 2:59 PM  

This should teach that scumbag editor at Tor never, ever to call these femi-nazis "ladies." /s

Anonymous bob k. mando June 28, 2013 3:00 PM  

Spacebunny requests that Vox post boobs:
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2007/10/request-from-spacebunny.html


Superfreak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT65GFEMQ2s

Blogger cmate June 28, 2013 3:03 PM  

I don't know about you guys, but when I'm in a conversation and have a “Dude, seriously??” moment, the first thing I do is seek out a "Safety Person".

Anonymous Anonymous June 28, 2013 3:04 PM  

in answer to comment above i believe part of the sexual harrasment was a statemnt made "during the incident" the statement was "Gosh, you’re lovely when you’re angry." Its the second last line of the "article" its unclear if the line itself is the alleged sexual harrasment or if it is just additional harrasment.

I do find it incredibly interesting that there are no facts given about this about waht actually was the alleged harrasment, that scazi says he will be quick with the "Mallet" on the thread but doesnt seem to care that the one of the commentators is fine with naming names and possbily ruining this guys rep on the basis of an allegation. I also like that the results of the investigation are not mentioned so it is likely ongoing but because someone decides to post their story its automatic proof of guilt.

Amicus Curiae

Anonymous Daniel June 28, 2013 3:05 PM  

Those photos make all of them look like a less flexible version of Ents.

Unrelated (2nd pic from bottom): Nice to see Jane Yolen. She's a good storyteller.

Anonymous rubberducky June 28, 2013 3:06 PM  

Some guys would hit it or try. We know ole Bill Clinton would. Anything female is a fair target. He even rhaposodized over the attraction of a female mummy he encountered. Some guys are just like that.

There are better ways of dealing with these men than electing them president, and most women learn fast how to do it. So, you're a fifty-two year old matron having a convo at a cocktail meet-and-greet, some guy breaks in and "sexually harasses" you in public? How so? Did he grab you or was it verbal? What happened that you lacked the skill to deal with?

Anonymous VD June 28, 2013 3:07 PM  

I was actually a temporary member of a writing group with this Elise. She was observably mentally unstable and a precursor of the SFWA pinkshirts that are trying to drive the old school out of the organization. While it is remotely possible that Mr. Frenkel did sexually harass her, let's just say that after having been around the woman for hours on several occasions, I would happily give odds that he did nothing of the sort.

Blogger Guitar Man June 28, 2013 3:08 PM  

I hope she is entertaining a blog war with you, Vox.

Anonymous Jill June 28, 2013 3:10 PM  

In a sign that I've been visiting this blog too frequently, I had a dream the other night that I saw two Navajo women at the local grocery store wearing pink shirts that said, "I supported SFWA and all I got was this dumb t-shirt!"

I'm still not sure what constitutes sexual harassment, but I should probably know for future reference what I should or shouldn't be offended at. Just in case I want to file a formal report someday. Did she say somewhere in there what the dirty deed was that this man did?

Anonymous CarpeOro June 28, 2013 3:10 PM  

"more importantly, can anyone identify EXACTLY how Frankel is supposed to have "harassed" her?"

He called her "Miss" making the harassing assumption that she isn't married. To something.

"the pinkshirts would no sooner catch sight of me in the distance before they'd burst into tears and start racing for the "mandated reporters" to be the first to claim that I beat them to death and abused their corpses."

They got better?

Formerly posting as Orion

Anonymous bob k. mando June 28, 2013 3:11 PM  

Anonymous June 28, 2013 3:04 PM
in answer to comment above i believe part of the sexual harrasment was a statemnt made "during the incident" the statement was "Gosh, you’re lovely when you’re angry." Its the second last line of the "article" its unclear if the line itself is the alleged sexual harrasment or if it is just additional harrasment.




i would say that this response was AFTER whatever set her off.

and given how these faggots lost their minds over complimenting a woman on her looks and referring to her as a lady ...

let's just say i doubt that anything remotely actionable happened.

Anonymous Daniel June 28, 2013 3:12 PM  

"Safety Person"

Sexist. That should be Safety Perchyld.

Anonymous Porky June 28, 2013 3:19 PM  

"One of my nicknames is Lioness."

http://youtu.be/o7BIodgJtJM?t=30s

Anonymous Daniel June 28, 2013 3:23 PM  

Stage III - Bargaining

Why am I afraid to name the editor?

What bravery.

Anonymous Anonagain June 28, 2013 3:27 PM  

These creatures are not human, much less female.

Anonymous patrick kelly June 28, 2013 3:27 PM  

IMAO the "safety person" legal, and folks from HR were just doing CYA by documenting everything this woman said for future reference in case any flaky legal shenanigans were attempted.

Anonymous Anonagain June 28, 2013 3:29 PM  

Demons in drag.

Anonymous Will Best June 28, 2013 3:33 PM  

While it is remotely possible that Mr. Frenkel did sexually harass her, let's just say that after having been around the woman for hours on several occasions, I would happily give odds that he did nothing of the sort.

Maybe he *yawned* and she mistook it as a mating call in her native language.

Anonymous Loki of Asgard June 28, 2013 3:36 PM  

Will someone please heed the call for a refreshing visual balm?

Here is balm for your ocular wounds, Dread Ilk.

Anonymous Noah B. June 28, 2013 3:42 PM  

Loki -- you bastard.

Anonymous EofA June 28, 2013 3:43 PM  

You guys still don't get it:

*** Your very existence counts as "rape" ***

They are offended by YOU... being alive, on this earth.

If you are a Christian, white male -- you are *raping*offending*bullying*hurting*hate-speeching*assaulting*murdering*harnessing -- just by breathing oxygen.

Anonymous Fake Jim Frenkel June 28, 2013 3:44 PM  

What's up fellow rapists? Hear anything interesting today on the interwebs? Any chicks I can rape?

Anonymous jaciii June 28, 2013 3:48 PM  

You said rape twice.

OpenID cailcorishev June 28, 2013 3:52 PM  

It's weird reading something like this and trying to figure out what she's claiming happened. She says someone came over afterwards and asked if she was okay, as if you could see it from a distance. So did he pants her? (I'm going to assume she wears pants.) Was he suddenly overcome with lust and tried to bend her over a table right in the middle of a party with people standing right there?

Anonymous Krul June 28, 2013 3:57 PM  

Re: cailcorishev

Judging by the "Gosh, you’re lovely when you’re angry" comment, I'm guessing she was visibly angry and upset.

Blogger Polynices June 28, 2013 3:57 PM  

What in the hell did he supposedly do or say? If this was all anonymous and actually just about "how to report harassment" then who cares, but the alleged perp has been named and the public lynching is beginning. And we have no idea what he supposedly did. That's just stupid.

Blogger Nate June 28, 2013 3:59 PM  

"You said rape twice."

He likes rape.


***someone had to say it.****

Blogger ajw308 June 28, 2013 4:05 PM  

I'm guessing he opened a door for her.

Anonymous Joe J June 28, 2013 4:11 PM  

Two basic questions come to mind:
1.what was said or done?
2. How horrible could it have been if it was said in front of several WisCom people who did not immediately react.

Anonymous That old grey mare June 28, 2013 4:13 PM  

Does Scalzi's blog have a mandatory reporter? Because after reading the story and skimming the comments there, I feel that the rational core of my being has been raped.

Anonymous Molon Rouge June 28, 2013 4:17 PM  

I wonder if she reads cursive?

Anonymous Tom White June 28, 2013 4:23 PM  

Vox what would your response be in this situation (were you accused of sexual abuse)? Start calling your lawyers and preparing the defamation case?

Anonymous Daniel June 28, 2013 4:24 PM  

Polynices, you are quibbling. It isn't even relevant if he was even in attendance at the convention. Anything he might have said or did is beside the point. The important thing is that the incident, real or imagined, was reported.

Because feelings.

Remember that scene in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome where Mad Max pulls out a gun, and then another gun, then some bullets, then a crossbow, a sawed off shotgun, then a little gun, and a knife, another gun, more bullets, brass knuckles, and so on?

These people are just like that, except with tampons.

It doesn't matter if they are all post-menopausal and haven't bled fertile for a decade, or even their entire lives. They will accuse, and then crow about it, just like the ladies who went after the librarian in the Music Man. Talk a little. Pick a little. Chip - chip - chip. Talk a lot, pick a little more.

My guess is that Frankel sidled up to the table and said, "Oh! She gots the velcros on her head!"

Anonymous Noah B. June 28, 2013 4:33 PM  

"Pansexual!? I think that's another word for Freak. With a capital F."

Cucurbits of the world, now you truly know terror.

Anonymous NateM June 28, 2013 4:33 PM  

I mean let's be fair, maybe the dude always wanted to bang Gary busey.

Anonymous VD June 28, 2013 4:37 PM  

Vox what would your response be in this situation (were you accused of sexual abuse)? Start calling your lawyers and preparing the defamation case?

Well, first it would depend if I was guilty of it or not. The fact that Ms Matthesen is not the most credible accuser in the world doesn't mean that she is not telling the truth. If I was guilty of it, I would immediately apologize and attempt to settle the matter with her in person.

If I was not, I'd have TPAM on the phone in minutes, put out a press release, and hire a private investigator to start digging into her background. I'd then put on the pressure until she was willing to publicly recant and apologize for the false accusation.

The two things that makes me disinclined to entirely disregard Ms Matthesen's account is a) there have reportedly been rumors about this guy before, and b) he has not come out and aggressively begun attacking her credibility. His silence does not prove his guilt, but it does raise questions.

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if it was something that normal people would regard as being completely innocuous, but the SFWA loons regard as quasi-rape. Remember, these are the people who went crazy over "Lady Editor".

Anonymous Noah B. June 28, 2013 4:46 PM  

Most telling is her reluctance to talk about "what happened" in detail, probably because she knows that once she does, most people will realize she's insane.

Anonymous Noah B. June 28, 2013 4:48 PM  

And what exactly does Scalzi mean when he says, "I like pie?"

Anonymous rsj June 28, 2013 4:49 PM  

I checked out the pics vidad posted. Is make-up illegal at wiscon? No attractiveness permitted? So many there were so ugly makeup or fashion could not help, but at least try!

And the men? Ugh. Limp, rumpled and soft. Except David Drake. He looked like he was trying to create some distance in those pics he was in. I never would have figured him for this.

Is that the shape of the world they are trying to create? No beauty? No zing? No strength? Ugly. Ugly inside and out.

Anonymous Lulabelle June 28, 2013 4:53 PM  

Thread winner: NateM "I mean let's be fair, maybe the dude always wanted to bang Gary busey."

Blogger Nate June 28, 2013 4:53 PM  

"If I was not, I'd have TPAM on the phone in minutes, put out a press release, and hire a private investigator to start digging into her background. I'd then put on the pressure until she was willing to publicly recant and apologize for the false accusation."

In short.. you introduce her into the real world. You shine the light on the little cockroach and watch her shit herself.

Anonymous Cederq June 28, 2013 4:55 PM  

Daniel, tell us how you really feel, Tampons? Seriously Dude?

Blogger The Great and Powerful Oz June 28, 2013 5:14 PM  

I would really like to know what happened. I've been the target of group psychodrama in the past that got me kicked out of an activity I was enjoying and had paid good money for.

Also, does anyone have an email address for James Frenkel? I'd like to send him a letter of support.

Frankly I'm to the point that if a woman complains to me about sexual harassment, I'm likely to tell her to make me a sandwich and we can discuss it. Otherwise, you've got your equality, you deal with it.

Blogger The Aardvark June 28, 2013 5:14 PM  

The cosseting, hand holding and "there, there" nauseates me. "Are you OK?" being asked over and over. If she was that emotionally damaged by whatever-he-said, she should have been NOT at the con anymore.

“Hell, yes, use my name.”

Wow, She IS a Lioness....

Anonymous FP June 28, 2013 5:16 PM  

"***someone had to say it.****"


Charming. Perhaps this editor is a Methodist.

Anonymous Daniel June 28, 2013 5:19 PM  

Ah, ignore me. I'm just bitter today taking another look at the places that souls like Vance and Richard Matheson and Piper and Bradbury used to haunt, and watching these little girls running around, crying to their minders about how darn special they are.

I realize that the bulk of good sci-fi is being done elsewhere, and that conventions were just a concept that guys like that developed because they didn't have an internet. I've never had any desire to attend a sci-fi convention, because, well, pics and it did happen.

Just because I sometimes get a weird nostalgia for historic events where cats like Piper scratched out the details of sputnik on a napkin the day it shocked everyone in the papers, just to be educational to his fellow science fiction guys, doesn't mean I really care, one way or the other, what a non-writer accuses a romance publisher of doing at a sexless cotillion in Wisconsin.

Anonymous Harsh June 28, 2013 5:20 PM  

And what exactly does Scalzi mean when he says, "I like pie?"

He means he has a vagina.

Anonymous Noah B. June 28, 2013 5:23 PM  

Rape jokes are never OK. Except when they're funny.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 June 28, 2013 5:34 PM  

Harrassment doesn't have to mean a sexual advance.
Chances are he burst her cis-female gender identity construct by assuming, rightly so if the pictures are any indication, that the offended "lady" was a man.
"Excuse me, sir, can you pass me a napkin?" was likely all that the editor needed to say to send the offended running for the nearest safety proctor.
Or, this being some kind of Sci-Fi convention, he probably bumped into her, looked her up and down briefly, then said "so that's what a shaved wookie looks like."

Anonymous Anonymous June 28, 2013 5:38 PM  

jay cJune 28, 2013 2:57 PM
From wikipedia: "Sexual identities: Bisexual Monosexual Pansexual Polysexual"

Pansexual!? I think that's another word for Freak. With a capital F.


Maybe the guy asked her to explain what on Earth her sexual idenitiesmean?

Azimus

Anonymous Patrick June 28, 2013 5:47 PM  

As others have pointed out, the notion that someone sexually harassed this woman simply isn't credible. I could understand if it were Cherie Priest or Marjorie Liu. Those two women are legitimately attractive; and yes, I can picture some man making a play for one of them. (I can even imagine Vox hitting on Marjorie Liu during his single days.)

Have you ever noticed that the loudest cries of "RAPE!" and "SEXUAL HARASSMENT!" always come from the women that 99.9999% of men will ignore?

Anonymous tinlaw June 28, 2013 5:49 PM  

An unwelcome advance or comment is not harassment, is it? How can anyone engage in something defined as harassment in mere moments? Doesn't there have to be a continuing of an activity past the point where one is asked to cease and desist for it to be harassment?

Anonymous VD June 28, 2013 5:59 PM  

I can even imagine Vox hitting on Marjorie Liu during his single days.

No. She's quite cute, to be sure, but too chubby for me.

Anonymous Cederq June 28, 2013 6:05 PM  

Quick, some one send over a "safety person" for Daniel, he appears vulnerable and could be raped/harassed in his present state, "Hell Yes" I would use my name sez Daniel when asked.

Anonymous Noah B. June 28, 2013 6:08 PM  

"She's quite cute, to be sure, but too chubby for me."

Man, you are one crazy cracker. To each his own, I guess.

Anonymous Daniel June 28, 2013 6:12 PM  

Dunno, tinlaw, you go up to a gal and say, "Hiya toots. Nice knockers. Wanna show em to me?"

Well, that's pretty obvious harassment. (I mean, unless you are good looking and/or obviously rich). It's going to be unsettling to a number of women (except for the ones who like it), and really isn't polite in a low key social or professional setting. It is (probably) wrong, and definitely wrong if she doesn't, in that case, like it.

It isn't the definition of harassment that is the problem...its what a victim of it does with it. The smart and principled victim will be prepared for a moron, and will address them directly about it right away. Don't let a boor get away with being a boor.

All this "brave, brave puppet of the bureaucracy - defend me daddy" junk is just an appeal to the patriarchy. It is weak and unwomanly - an institutional way to inspire cheerleaders to "hear hear!" to your "Oh, I woulda socked him right in the eye, I tell ya, but the coward wouldn't stay put after dunking my head in the toilet".

It is a bunch of second-rate showmanship.

A real woman, harrassed, would have shown her spine, and either cut the harasser to the quick herself, or used her natural gifts to inspire a small alliance of the offended to join her cause. Filing a report with poppa bureaucracy is just sad.

These are feminists playing house, pretending they wear the pants by wrapping them around their necks like a scarf. It's pathetic. They are an insult to their sex, whatever that might turn out to be, genetically or otherwise.

You know what would make a great sci-fi novel? A book about a planet that had grown-ups on it.

Anonymous Daniel June 28, 2013 6:22 PM  

I'll put it another way: when you are receive instruction and counsel about how to conduct yourself as a woman from Brother Hines and Father Scalzi, you are probably going to make more than a few mistakes along the way.

Anonymous Crude June 28, 2013 6:26 PM  

Maybe I'm missing something, but is there testimony as to what the sexual harassment actually was? Was it 'hey, nice tits'? Something else? Something physical?

Anonymous Crude June 28, 2013 6:32 PM  

Actually, nevermind. Apparently we're allowed to be privy to the details of the accused name, the fact that he's generally accused by a particular person, but the actual details are forbidden.

I'd say that's weird, but I know better nowadays.

Anonymous John-GT June 28, 2013 6:39 PM  

"Gosh, you’re lovely when you’re angry"

Condescension = sexual harassment

How dare he not put her on a pedestal! /s

Blogger Bogey June 28, 2013 6:47 PM  

Worst of all Frenkel's reputation is hurt, as people will believe he's the guy that sexually harassed a bull dyke.

Dude, these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCUnWIs88CQ are the kinds of women that real men harass.

Anonymous Bat21 June 28, 2013 6:48 PM  

If he's not her boss and doesn't hold any authority over her I don't believe it can be considered sexual harassment. At worst it was a crass comment or two during a conversation. Maybe he told her she needed to get laid. She probably does.

Blogger wrf3 June 28, 2013 6:59 PM  

Daniel wrote: A real woman, harrassed, would have shown her spine, and either cut the harasser to the quick herself, or used her natural gifts to inspire a small alliance of the offended to join her cause.

This is a real woman dealing with an uncomfortable situation. What a smile.

Anonymous AlteredFate June 28, 2013 7:07 PM  

"I checked out the pics vidad posted. Is make-up illegal at wiscon? No attractiveness permitted? So many there were so ugly makeup or fashion could not help, but at least try! And the men? Ugh. Limp, rumpled and soft. Except David Drake. He looked like he was trying to create some distance in those pics he was in. I never would have figured him for this. Is that the shape of the world they are trying to create? No beauty? No zing? No strength? Ugly. Ugly inside and out." -rsj

Agree. Those pictures are illuminating. I never imagined the group of writers(I use the term loosely) Vox talks about so often would be so very low class in their dress and grooming. I always imagined that one of the reasons to aspire to be a professional writer, besides all the obvious recognition, money, and sharing of story, was because of the sophistication the title seems to bring those known and published authors. Maybe I'm alone in this, and possibly I'm somewhat naive, but I can honestly say that I would rather remain an unpublished nobody than to be caught with this group of trash. Their outward appearance, both in body and clothing, would seem to mirror their politics: gross, unkempt, bloated, tasteless, and disgusting.

Blogger Bogey June 28, 2013 7:13 PM  

Members of the SFWA are already circling the wagons. They live for this shit.

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/06/28/reporting-harassment-at-a-convention-a-first-person-how-to/

Anonymous Cinco June 28, 2013 7:14 PM  

"I was there, standing around with a drink talking about Babylon 5, the work of China Mieville, and Marxist theories of labor (like you do) when an editor from a different house joined the conversation briefly and decided to do the thing that I reported."

Clearly he came off the top rope with some subjective theory of value and blew her mind, she reported that she was: "mentally raped."

Anonymous inhumanist June 28, 2013 7:15 PM  

These "women" are like that crazy obese stinky dungeon master who's decided to brutally kill off a PC for eating all the cheetos. Too much power in their hands.

Anonymous Anonymous June 28, 2013 7:18 PM  

Obvious whining that Vox isn't as stupid as he wants him to be.

--pb

Anonymous Anonymous June 28, 2013 7:20 PM  

"Maybe I'm alone in this, and possibly I'm somewhat naive, but I can honestly say that I would rather remain an unpublished nobody than to be caught with this group of trash. Their outward appearance, both in body and clothing, would seem to mirror their politics: gross, unkempt, bloated, tasteless, and disgusting."

Inflated self-esteem - we are a pampered and narcissistic people.

--pb

Anonymous AlteredFate June 28, 2013 7:21 PM  

Some allies can help by hanging out with you at convention programming or parties or events, ready to be a buffer in case of unfortunate events — or by just reminding you to eat, if you’re too stressed to remember." -Scalzi, a.k.a. crossing-dressing (maybe)cisgendered rapist of the dead corpse that is sf/f

I'm pretty sure Mz. Matthesen doesn't need someone to remind (her) to eat. Ever.

Anonymous Razoraid June 28, 2013 7:25 PM  

It's hard to look at these pictures and not conclude that our civilization has passed its "Sell-by Date".

Anonymous es1966 June 28, 2013 7:25 PM  

If I'm wrong I do apologize, HOWEVER I can sum up my opinion/belief in one word-BULLSHI#! What did the poor man do refer to her as a lady or GASP! an attractive lady. I can honestly tell you as 40 something attractive female the whole statement comes across as a run on statement of well, nothing. Or did she happen to hear a private conversation which she objected to. I honestly do not know what else to say, sigh.......

Blogger Duke of Earl June 28, 2013 7:34 PM  

I can honestly say I've never harassed a woman I didn't find attractive, so she's safe.

Anonymous bob k. mando June 28, 2013 7:34 PM  

AlteredFate June 28, 2013 7:21 PM
I'm pretty sure Mz. Matthesen doesn't need someone to remind (her) to eat. Ever.




no, no, no, you've got it completely backwards. she's an anorexia survivor, see?

the only way she has survived anorexia is because people keep reminding her to eat.


y'all know what this looks like? remember that atheist chick bimbo who lost her mind when a guy ASKED IF HE COULD BUY HER COFFEE? yeah, that was 'sexual harassment' too.

that's what this reminds me of.

Anonymous Anonagain June 28, 2013 7:35 PM  

It's hard to look at these pictures and not conclude that our civilization has passed its "Sell-by Date".

Go to any DMV and you will know for a fact that it is.

Anonymous Pinakeli June 28, 2013 7:45 PM  

I was once escorted out of a Best Buy for being accused of this. To this day I don't know what the chubby, semi-attractive young woman thought I said.

I went back to try to talk to the manager, but she said she would support her people and not tell me what was said.

I had them all investigated. The manager was sleeping with her district manager, which was why she had the job in the first place. Somehow his wife found out and he killed himself. The investigation of that exposed all the rest.

Not one of them is still there, but I still don't know what that flake didn't like, or though I said.

Anonymous The Next to Last Samurai June 28, 2013 7:45 PM  

She looks like she's about my age (53) and, just to set the record straight, we do get hassled by jerks every now and then, though it happens less and less often as you age. Now, why this guy would risk his livelihood by treating a feminist with anything other than fawning deference is another question. Perhaps he attempted fawning deference--"Alise! You look great!"--and she took it as harassment.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter June 28, 2013 8:10 PM  

Wasn't someone talking about false positives and false negatives?

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/06/27/13-year-old-arrested-for-murder-of-missing-5-year-old/

Diversity strikes again. Can we ask if the 13-year old was making a preemptive strike.

Anonymous Scintan June 28, 2013 8:14 PM  

Now, why this guy would risk his livelihood by treating a feminist with anything other than fawning deference is another question.

Why would you treat them with deference? Treat them with the contempt and/or indifference they deserve.

Anonymous Leap of a Beta June 28, 2013 8:16 PM  

" Maybe I'm alone in this, and possibly I'm somewhat naive, but I can honestly say that I would rather remain an unpublished nobody than to be caught with this group of trash"

Speaking both to the pics and on america in general, this is the conclusion of the destruction of upward class mobility. The funny part is that the situation seems to have been brought on by the middle class's desire to 'be in touch with themselves/their roots' to an illogical extreme. Oh, and their hatred of anything hinting at someone better off than they. They would rather be themselves wallowing in filth than strive for improvement. Rather than emulating the upper class the middle class is emulating the lower class.

Sad really. Even though my grandfather was a blue collar who climbed telephone poles for a living he was dressed better than most today. Modestly but with well cut clothes and fashion thay bespoke of him as a man.

Anonymous The Next to Last Samurai June 28, 2013 8:27 PM  

He would treat them with deference because he works in the sf/f field, in which feminists are powerful.

Blogger bearspaw June 28, 2013 8:56 PM  

Vox, you and other interested parties really ought to split from this cancer infected group and form a new association.

Anonymous Ghost of Zappa June 28, 2013 8:59 PM  

Dear Elise:

What's the ugliest
Part of your body?
What's the ugliest
Part of your body?
Some say your nose
Some say your toes
(I think it's your mind)
But I think it's YOUR MIND
(Your mind)
I think it's your mind, woo woo


Woo woo indeed!
--zen0

Anonymous Steve Canyon June 28, 2013 9:08 PM  

Bears a remarkable resemblance to the actor whom Peter Venkman referred to as "Dickless" in Ghostbusters.

Anonymous Phil Mann June 28, 2013 9:32 PM  

Check out this comment at Scalzi's blog: -- "after being a professor for severl years, I chose to reach out to a younger student body. I tool 3 1/2 years of night classes at Charter College of Education, Cal State L.A.,... "

Tool?

Younger student body?

Sometimes unintentional humor is the best.


Anonymous K. Tempest Racist pervert and fat farm racial segregationist June 28, 2013 9:34 PM  

To show you what weird perverts these people are, this is something K. Tempest Bradford, arch-food stuffer and racist, thought this worth retweeting today.

https://twitter.com/Tsalmoth/status/350665382526337025

Oooooooo-kay!!!

It's about people in the BDSM community who choose to allow themselves to be undressed and tied up by strangers and then complaining about being raped. Friends, it doesn't come any stupider or creepier than that. K. Tempest Fishsticks wants you to know the troubles she's seen.

Usually where there's smoke, there's fire, and if this Frenkel guy's been accused for 10 years, that says something. But it also says something that his employer's never done anything. It says more that these "brave" people aren't mentioning what exactly occurred, but ARE mentioning the name. That indicates it was trivial to a normal person. The fact that this community of doofs are Chicken Littles who long ago shot their credibility is telling as well. They are, as usual, showing far more excitement about this incident that they ever do about their genre's art.

Foremost among them is Jim Hines, who latches onto the slightest hint of forced seduction like it's a juicy morsel. Child protective services: be alert. Self-appointed nationwide rape-watch men are rarely normal human beings.

In all my born days I confess I've never seen a group of people more apt at rationalizing their own pathologies, self-obsession, anti-social tendencies and moral posturing over nothing. They are the single stupidest group of people I've ever run across. Reading the comments at Scalzi and Hines is like reading something from an insane asylum.

Everything in life is relative, and the fact is that a guy whose arm I'd like to break if he did such a thing to a female acquaintance of mine doesn't bother me nearly as much as the cure says something about how foul the stink is at the SFWA.

When it comes to sexual harrassment, anyone who's read the Ada Initiative's site knows this is a group of claymore mine just waiting to explode. Keep in mind, Ada considers being ignored "harassment."

The strangest thing of all is, I have fantasies of never touching the bloated carcasses of this humorless and graceless herd of bison, though I'm sure these sad beasts feel every man dreams of being with them. That is wrong. The overwhelming majority of men not only dream of never being with them, they pray they never fall so far and if they did, wonder what possible crime they have committed on Earth to bring their karma to such a state of affairs.

If I haven't made myself clear, if I were on a deserted island and had my choice of one of these sick fat slugs or the other side of the island, it would be solitude and peace, not effing what is essentially a giant larva. So, ladies, trust me, you'd be safer than safe around me, and throughout eternity.

Anonymous The other skeptic June 28, 2013 9:40 PM  

I think that Florida wants to be the epicenter of black rioting that leads the Government to declare martial law and President for Life Barack Obumbler.

Anonymous The other skeptic June 28, 2013 9:47 PM  

Thank you. I know first hard how hard it is to report this kind of thing (although my experience was not in fandom). *hugs*

Sighs.

Anonymous The other skeptic June 28, 2013 10:24 PM  

Now Bloomberg tells the truth about diversity.

Blogger kudzu bob June 28, 2013 10:33 PM  

His Wikipedia page states that Frenkel lives in Wiscon, but that still fails to explain why he didn’t have enough sense to stay the hell away from WisCon. The odds of this sort of thing happening to any attendee bearing a Y-chromosome are bound to be alarmingly high. How stupid can a man be?

It ‘s a damned good thing for Frenkel that Wisconsin is only 6% black. Otherwise he would have wandered into some black neighborhood there and gotten himself removed from the gene pool long before this.

Blogger kudzu bob June 28, 2013 10:39 PM  

First sentence of above post should read "Frenkel lives in Wisconsin."

Anonymous Sigyn June 28, 2013 10:41 PM  

Bears a remarkable resemblance to the actor whom Peter Venkman referred to as "Dickless" in Ghostbusters.

William Atherton.

...What?

Anonymous The other skeptic June 28, 2013 10:56 PM  

Someone does not like Walt Whitman.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 28, 2013 11:09 PM  

WFT, "mandated reporter?" The only context I've every seen or heard that phrase used is for people in certain jobs, like teachers or day care workers, who are mandated by law to report allegations or suspicions of child abuse.

What possible relevance could a "mandated reporter" have to a post-middle aged woman at least nominally in charge of her faculties?

Oh, the glories of Feminism, treating women more like helpless children than the worst patriarchy would ever dream of.

Anonymous Jim HInes: Pervert Hunter, Segregationist, Retarded Mental Case June 28, 2013 11:19 PM  

All men who wish to come within 4 meters of a woman at WisCon should announce, "Permission to approach." Combined with transparent plastic spheres for the women where only their legs, head and arms stick out, this should provide a "safer" Wiscon experience. Once the final touch of being armed with tasers is complete, it's clear sailing to talking about SFF.

Anonymous NateM June 28, 2013 11:29 PM  

the other skeptic:

http://youtu.be/D0fOXHSWVNg

Anonymous John (Pedantic Mallet) Scalzi: Ace-Oaf, Future Nun, and Sputtering Aphid June 28, 2013 11:51 PM  

These people want to be thought of as equals but they lack the resolve and brains to simply start handing out black eyes, which would solve the problem industry-wide in a matter of weeks. If complete strangers are licking your arm and picking you up, punch 'em in their stupid fucking heads. Problem solved.

Anonymous DonReynolds June 28, 2013 11:58 PM  

This so-called sexual harassment is an outrage and totally insane. She makes a mockery of every woman who ever had a true and genuine complaint of sexual harassment. (Clearly, she is one of those "geeks" who never actually met any rednecks.)

This is the sort of thing that later becomes "being pecked to death by ducks", when there was nothing to complain about. Until the pinkshirts were invented, this was nothing more than a simple case of free speech.....so call him a jerk and walk away. No Federal case.

OpenID thule222 June 29, 2013 12:02 AM  

I think she's being smart. They got so far with Resnick because the actually SFWA bulletin was restricted to members so we couldn't read what he was accused of. Once everyone realized the witch hunt was because he'd said 'lady editor' they started getting push back.

So don't say what the accused did. Keep it vague and undefined. If the accused tries to defend himself, they can say he's lying because he's guilty. And since they haven't said anything specific, there's nothing for anyone else to say.

Blogger V June 29, 2013 12:32 AM  

Good Lord. I'll give you a $100 to beat a few of them to death and do something horrid to their corpses. Ye Gods.

Anonymous Mudz June 29, 2013 12:37 AM  

Just reading the comments is kind of overwhelming in the sheer momentum of sluggish groupthink that'd have to be overcome to get them to examine their behaviour.

No-one even seems interested in finding out what happened (other than 'oh please tell me what a horrible misogynistic douchebag he was', naturally unfulfilled). The whole event is described with 'he said something sexually harassing, it bothered me', and the other 99% of the post is a faux courageous show of how Serious Bad This Is, Requiring Serious Mobilisation of Resources and Response Protocol Training.

What the dude should do is claim that she sexually harassed him first (as defined by the unwritten rules of sexual harassment i.e. failing to hit on him in order to reaffirm his status as equally worthy of desire in the community, the neglect of which made him feel uncomfortable and ostracised (although he doesn't actually say this out loud, people have to guess)), and then see their logic circuits burn out trying to discrimate their burdens of proof between him and Elise.

Anonymous Mudz June 29, 2013 12:40 AM  

I thought the Marxism comment was interesting too. I guess #SarahHoytwasright.

Anonymous Jaymee Goh Dim Sum-faced idiot from Malaysia June 29, 2013 2:11 AM  

Here's the latest bitch doing the rounds of the SFWA Twitter-verse.

It's the "Louisiana literacy test for voting administered in 1964."

Here's one dumb fuck of an animal called Jaymee Goh, WisCon racist, who can't figure it out.

http://jhameia.tumblr.com/post/54126120958/strugglingtobeheard-letterstomycountry#_=_

She writes:

"i can fucking read and i would fail the fuck outta this test. i don’t understand what the fuck they are asking me to do in most of these questions. at all."

Aaaaaaaaahahahahahahah. Riddle solved.

These people aren't just savages, they're retarded.

Anonymous AlteredFate June 29, 2013 2:42 AM  

"All men who wish to come within 4 meters of a woman at WisCon..."

Any man wishing any such thing should hand over his Man-card then be forced to castrate him self with a spoon.

Anonymous tiredofitall June 29, 2013 2:53 AM  

"The two things that makes me disinclined to entirely disregard Ms Matthesen's account is a) there have reportedly been rumors about this guy before, and b) he has not come out and aggressively begun attacking her credibility. His silence does not prove his guilt, but it does raise questions." - VD

I don't know. Having been in a similar situation* to Mr Frenkel I can say that a) Rumors mean exactly jack squat without some kind of evidence to back them up. Otherwise we'll be back to admitting spectral evidence in courts of law.

And b) Who's to say that Mr. Frenkel's current "radio silence" isn't a lawyer-enforced thing?

*While working as a temp IT/Mr. Fixit at an unnamed company, I was continually targeted by what later turned out to be a deeply mentally unhinged woman who hated me because the first time we met I'd failed to leap when she said so. (Never mind the fact that her direct supervisor had asked me to run CAT 5 through the entire building.) She took every word out of my mouth as an attack on her person, and tried to get me fired/sued for creating a hostile work environment.

So yeah, sometimes Mr. Frenkel's current tactics of staying quiet as a church-mouse are the way to go, when every word out of your mouth can only be used against you and not to your benefit, the truth be damned.

Anonymous 114 June 29, 2013 2:57 AM  

He probably said something slightly racy yet slightly PC, like that he likes lesbians, and she probably had a plan of attack just in case something like this happened.

Anonymous Readers Gawking At Liberal Murder Fantasies June 29, 2013 3:03 AM  

"I was thereSo there I was, standing around with a drink casually talking about Babylon 5, the work of China Mieville Josef Goebbels, and Marxist theories of labor final solutions to the Jewish Problem (like you do)..."

^ That's what this looks like to normal people,libs.

Anonymous Readers Gawking At Liberal Murder Fantasies June 29, 2013 3:07 AM  

Lemme try this again:

Two editors I knew were throwing a book release party on Friday night at the convention. I was there, standing around with a drink talking about Babylon 5, the work of China Mieville, and Marxist theories of labor (like you do)

"So there I was, standing around with a drink casually talking about Babylon 5, the work of Josef Goebbels, and final solutions to the Jewish Problem (like you do)..."

^ That's what this looks like to normal people,libs.

Anonymous KicktheDyke June 29, 2013 3:53 AM  

More of this SF+ Copying Atheism+

Shouldn't Richard Dawkins have destroyed that movement when he responded to the Dyke who equated Coffee to Rape.

Anonymous Kick the Kat June 29, 2013 3:58 AM  

I, like most sane people defend the jews when compared to the nazi party.But it is about time to examine the fact that Nazi's were not born hating jews. They(jews) were at the front line of trying to change the German Govt and in fact gave a voice to the nazi party who were considered buffoons until the jews helped define a party that would naturally create a equal but opposite reaction.

If we are all the same, you cannot really point the finger at anyone,only point out why it happened.

Anonymous The Next to Last Samurai June 29, 2013 4:31 AM  

I knew the *Hugs* Monster would put in an appearance ! Probably at about the time our heroine was feeling unsafe. Does anyone else think "unsafe" is a stupid word? What's wrong with "endangered?"

Anonymous The CronoLink June 29, 2013 5:10 AM  

Are you okay, Miss? Are you okay, Miss? Are you okay, Miss? Are you okay, Miss? Are you okay, Miss? Are you okay, Miss? Are you okay, Miss? Are you okay, Miss? Are you okay, Miss? Are you okay, Miss? Are you okay, Miss?

Holy jumping monkeys, what's the matter with these clowns?

Anonymous Rantor June 29, 2013 5:27 AM  

I last went to a CON over 25 years ago. It was the WorldCon in Phoenix, I can't recall that many ugly people in the whole place. I do recall Larry Niven telling me and the girl I was with that we looked too clean cut to be science fiction fans, my friend laid into him for the assumption that SF fans must look like slobs... of course we now have further proof and perhaps an indication of what Larry had seen elsewhere.

I remember meeting and talking with a few authors who were interesting (Pournelle and Brunner come to mind) talked to actress Bibi Besch (Star Trek II), seeing some pretty, even hot women, one going around in a skimpy outfit and chains, led around by a guy in a bounty-hunter get up. I have a feeling that wouldn't go over well at WISCON today.

Anonymous Mudz June 29, 2013 5:49 AM  

Found this, about the other complaints that have been hinted at:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2013/06/28/let-me-tell-you-a-story/

Taking her at her word, and the subsequent comments, it sounds like Frenkel could be accused of ranging from slightly inappropriate, to full on somewhat creepy.

Or it's entirely possible that he's just awkward.

I remember getting in trouble at school with the teacher for sexual harassment, because I spanked a (pretty hot) girl on the rump. Fact is though, she spanked me first. So it was just youthful high spirits and the like. And at least I had the dignity to do it with my school-binder, instead of my hand (like that wicked temptress), because I was a gentleman, obviously.

So while I danced past with dashing and debonair, I've seen awkward and defensive kids (and I include technically grown-up men in that) create intensely awkward situations for themselves because they had badly tuned responses to social cues that misfired, and couldn't recover in time to roll away from the psychomob pile. Digging themselves deeper, so to speak. (Usually the dudes who have trouble getting girls in the first place. Natural victims, poor bastards.)

Moral of the story. Not enuff info.

Anonymous John Scalzi: leader of the pack (of palsied kneeling sheep) June 29, 2013 6:12 AM  

What's funny is that these are the women who claim they are warriors in history and write about women who dance around killing men.

They won't get on a frickin' elevator alone with a guy, they get touched and form a crying circle. I'm pretty sure there were no crying circles at the Somme and Waterloo.

You're the weaker sex; intellectually, aggressively, creatively, physically, in all ways. Sure, there are exceptions. Exceptions are not rules, rules are, and we rule. Always have, always will.

There is no Xena, no Buffy. Deal with it, and get the hell back in the kitchen. Daddy's hungry. And put on some frickin' lingerie and don't eat like a pig. I'll do the eatin' around here.

Blogger stareatgoatsies June 29, 2013 8:03 AM  

These people aren't just savages, they're retarded.

That test is ridiculous. Seriously, give yourself ten minutes and see if you pass (1 wrong answer is a fail, you've 20 seconds per question) Sample question:

Write right from from the right to the left as you see it spelled here.

I mean, possibly doable? But what percentage of the general population would actually pass today? I'd generously hazard less than 10%.

Anonymous Rosalys June 29, 2013 8:21 AM  

Never heard of her so I did a quick google search. She apparently identifies her/him/itself as bisexual, monosexual, pansexual, polysexual. If one cannot even come to any conclusion as to where on the gender spectrum one belongs how can one claim to be sexually harassed?

Anonymous Leap of a Beta June 29, 2013 9:29 AM  

" Maybe I'm alone in this, and possibly I'm somewhat naive, but I can honestly say that I would rather remain an unpublished nobody than to be caught with this group of trash"

Speaking both to the pics and on america in general, this is the conclusion of the destruction of upward class mobility. The funny part is that the situation seems to have been brought on by the middle class's desire to 'be in touch with themselves/their roots' to an illogical extreme. Oh, and their hatred of anything hinting at someone better off than they. They would rather be themselves wallowing in filth than strive for improvement. Rather than emulating the upper class the middle class is emulating the lower class.

Sad really. Even though my grandfather was a blue collar who climbed telephone poles for a living he was dressed better than most today. Modestly but with well cut clothes and fashion thay bespoke of him as a man.

Anonymous CynicAle June 29, 2013 10:04 AM  

"Well, maybe I'm a bit innocent about how publishing really works." -Elise Matthesen

Seems the last update was 2006 ish

Anonymous Aliette de Racist: Retarded moron and child in an adult body June 29, 2013 10:21 AM  


Write right from from the right to the left as you see it spelled here.

thgir

I passed the test in a few minutes. And I don't know one wrong answer made you fail. That could be made up, maybe not. The point is that dumb broad said she couldn't understand most of them. Most?

Anonymous The other skeptic June 29, 2013 11:17 AM  

until the jews helped define a party that would naturally create a equal but opposite reaction.

Link please.

Anonymous The other skeptic June 29, 2013 11:18 AM  

Write right from from the right to the left as you see it spelled here.

Doesn't the Debacle in Florida prove that only people who can understand written instructions of the sort above should vote?

Anonymous NateM June 29, 2013 11:41 AM  

hah, posted on the thread at Whatever with the simple comment "So, No Presumption of innocence for the accused" and what a surprise--the banhammer

Deleted because oh for fuck's sake will the stupid and/or obstinate please stop posting in this thread -JS]

Yes, because the idea that a person wouldn't be assumed guilty due to an accusation is such a ridiculous concept..

Anonymous NateM June 29, 2013 11:44 AM  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVuAGFcGKY

sexual harassment just always makes me think of this...

Anonymous Anonagain June 29, 2013 12:11 PM  

Deleted because oh for fuck's sake will the stupid and/or obstinate please stop posting in this thread -JS]

Leftists need to be deleted. Period.

Anonymous John Scalzi: Severe curtailing of the nuts at birth, married manbeast to equal 1 full nutsack June 29, 2013 2:59 PM  

Here's a glimpse of the Haitian-level IQs at Moron Street, otherwise known as John Scalzi's adoring fans on his Twitter feed.

"wrdnrd ‏@wrdnrd 24h
People at @scalzi's demanding Elise share details of the harassment need to realize that if she hasn't already it's none of their business.

"Tam MacNeil ‏@TamMacNeil 19h
@wrdnrd @scalzi @lisaspangenberg B/c the only reason ppl want to know is to judge if it's 'real' harassment, which is part of the problem."

Yeah, wanting to know if a crime occurred is itself a crime, especially if I was nosy enough to hear it blared about on the internet.

What's the guess for IQs there? Maybe 60?

Anonymous bob k. mando June 29, 2013 3:12 PM  

testable IQ is irrelevant.

they are self-destroying fools. the higher their functional IQ only means the more efficiently they will foolishly destroy themselves.

problem:
they'll take a lot of us down with them.

Blogger Shibes Meadow June 29, 2013 3:40 PM  

BALM

Anonymous Steven Gould: Racially paranoid feminist sans nutsack June 29, 2013 4:58 PM  

The fiction itself has to be at an all-time low. Of the six Nebula nominees for best novel, not one of them was worth my time. Harry Potter already looks like Hall of Fame stuff.

Anonymous evettems1966@comcast.net June 29, 2013 5:00 PM  

First things first, you're opinions regarding the Jewish people nor the way you dress has NOTHING to do with this blog, talk about O T. I think the worst thing about this is two fold: First his name was published, whether or not she did it personally, she very much condoned it being done by others. Second why was a separate report made to his employer. Seriously although his actions were supposedly horrible it was done in mixed company AND not only were his actions? criminal, they didn't warrant civil charges either. And IMO his actions obviously didn't seem to spark comments from the supposed witnesses, even after this story broke. If you want to make a statement about how to report incidences of sexual harassment, great. Because they do exist and happen a lot. But you weaken the issue and look stupid, silly, and hysterical if not based in reality. Given this it's obvious that you should be forced to outline what actually happened. The problem is lately PC police aside, most comments or at worst over heard conversations ARE not sexual harassment. This world is populated by men and women both and it's not RIGHT for one to demand that the world establish guidelines so that one 1/2 is always happy and never uncomfortable. And this is coming from a woman who is raising an independent not entitled adult. Please forgive me for the LONG post.

Anonymous SFWA: Center For Racial and Gender Defamation June 29, 2013 7:04 PM  

The fact this Elise won't say what it was indicates its frivolous nature. Remember, the Ada Initiative, in its timeline of tech convention harassment, listed being ignored and Adria Richards considered a dongle joke harassment.

Until they say what this was, this is nothing but a witchhunt and internet lynching. Frenkel could probably sue the lot of them for defamation. Scalzi has promised to raise lawsuit money. Well, let 'em.

Anonymous Readers Gawking At The Tantrum-Throwing Crybaby Left June 30, 2013 3:29 AM  

"The fact this Elise won't say what it was indicates its frivolous nature."

She's just keeping us in suspense. Just before they burn the guy alive before they even know what he supposedly did,let alone whether he is guilty or innocent,she'll tearfully announce that he whispered the word "dongle" into his hand.

And you can totally see why the guy needs to lose his job and get beaten to death by an angry mob too, hurt feelings are,like,for real serious.

Women's fragile personalities can't handle a damaging shock like that....and they're totally equal to men...who absolutely can handle the discussion of sex or people's genitalia like adults by the time they're no longer in puberty.I don't know how that can possibly be true, or how the demonstrated eagerness of women to perform the most degrading,bizarre, or downright disgusting sexual perversions with violent rapist ex-cons doesn't put the lie to the claim that women are devastated by dongles,but that's what women tell us and it's impossible for them to lie. Also, they never poop. Ever. Cause that would be gross.

Anonymous SFWA: Hate speech central in the SFF community June 30, 2013 8:03 PM  

Frankel has a history of going up to retarded OCD feminists and taunting them by saying things like "Has the mothership landed yet?"

I agree that is unprofessional.

Anonymous Morris June 30, 2013 11:13 PM  

"Loki -- you bastard."

Seconded.

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