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Friday, June 07, 2013

Mailvox: she's not the biggest fan

Sunny reflects on the various responses to AA, the engineering student:
Just about everyone here disgusts me. Vox, and just about all the people commenting, with the exception of a few. I happened to stumble on this blog yesterday and I have to say its one of the worst things I have ever discovered. I've found only one post by Vox that isn't completely infuriating. Which was his opinion on Abortion.

Everyone is telling AA that she has to see reason. To marry and further the evolutionary cycle by having children. The world is over populated. For proof of this, please go check up on China's policy on bearing children. Honestly, who are any of you to presume to tell anyone what to do or how to live? You're all nothing more than a bunch of cult members flocking to Vox who has an insane world view.
No one is telling AA she has to see reason.  She doesn't.  She can do whatever she likes.  I don't care what she does, in fact, I expressly pointed out that neither I nor anyone else cares what she does, says, thinks, or feels.  The point about marriage and children is that a) she will probably want them sooner or later, regardless of how she feels now, and, b) there is nothing else she can do that will be as important to species and society as bearing and raising children.

The world is not overpopulated with people like AA.  Moreover, if there is overpopulation, AA replacing herself and her eventual husband cannot possibly contribute to it.  If overpopulation is a genuine concern, then the West should stop sending food to Africa, stop intervening in Third World wars, and permit the African and Asian populations to fall back to the levels they were prior to World War II.  But China's policy for how to deal with one billion Chinese has nothing to do with how the English should deal with 50 million English.

Overpopulation is a Third World phenomenon, not a First World one.  The entire population of Europe, the USA, and Canada is only one-seventh of the global population, therefore, if it is a problem, it is one for which the West is neither responsible nor capable of resolving without actively reducing non-Western populations.

Sunny appears to have forgotten that AA emailed me and asked me to explain myself.  I merely did as she requested and she is certainly free to ignore my advice if she chooses.

Sunny doubles down:
As I'm sure the comments are about to be spammed with his cult members agreeing with him. I'm 100% it would take me far too long to reply to everyone.

I am not, in any way, telling you that you were wrong in explaining yourself. However explaining yourself does not equate to to the harsh judgement you rendered. Knowing full well that your followers would leap to agree with anything you said.  Absolutely no one deserves that.

As you'll also find, I also commented on the fact that I do not agree with your beliefs. I was not just simply leaping in to defend AA. Although as I said, your treatment of her was extremely harsh.

I hope that one day, the words you speak and your disregard for other people will have consequences and you will truly see how you have erred.

Also, my point of China was not me agreeing on the methods they use. Simply pointing out that there IS overpopulation. 
Oh Sweet Sade.  My dear Sunny, perhaps you do not realize it, but my response to AA was far from harsh.  It was a delicate shower of rose petals compared to the way in which I normally respond to anklebiters and midwitted critics.  You see, I am an Award Winning Cruelty Artist.  My gentle admonishments once inspired a strong, independent, well-educated woman, in the middle of a debate with me, to run off to Nevada to become a stripper and prostitute.

The amusing thing is that you probably think I'm joking....

I do find it strange, however, that you seem to think no one deserves for me to render judgment upon them, for fear that my followers will agree with me.  Would it be truly more kind to simply smile, pat AA on her little head, and leave her to a barren life of petty material accomplishments and a lonely death?  Why do you think it is disregard to warn others they are on a self-destructive path that leads to misery?

I am entirely aware that actions have consequences.  Just last week, I lost a book contract because the publisher does not believe they have the ability to defend my inclination to speak the truth about the world as I see it.  Many people, perhaps most, prefer to dwell amidst their pretty little lies.  That is their prerogative.  But they have no right to ask me to confirm their lies and expect me to lie to them.

As for China, you are still missing the point, which is that no government policy of any government is sufficient to prove that the Earth is overpopulated.  And you also failed to understand that further suppressing white upper-middle class births will not help solve the purported overpopulation problem, for the very obvious reason that white, upper-middle class people are a very small percentage of the total global population.

Labels:

306 Comments:

1 – 200 of 306 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Crude June 06, 2013 1:12 PM  

For proof of this, please go check up on China's policy on bearing children. Honestly, who are any of you to presume to tell anyone what to do or how to live? You're all nothing more than a bunch of cult members flocking to Vox who has an insane world view.

Oh man. There it is.

For one thing, 'China has a one child policy' doesn't really prove the world is overpopulated, anymore than the fact that China has strict free speech limits doesn't prove that free speech is some terrible thing that needs to be controlled (or at least not the way China does it.)

But even granting that... it's weird how the love for "Reproductive Rights" goes right out the window with China. We get a constant angry stream of "MY BODY MY CHOICE" in the west, but when China's government decides that these women's bodies must be controlled, to the point of forced abortions, well... sometimes women need to take one for the team? Which is why I had to laugh when I read about China mulling hitting single pregnant women with a heavy tax.

If you approve of China's 1-child policy, please, shut up about your reproductive rights. Especially if you're a woman. Embrace that policy and you've made it clear that your womb is subject to the state's needs - and if the state needs you to stop having kids, or to have far more, they're within their 'right' to make sure those wombs dance to the required tune.

Anonymous MrGreenMan June 06, 2013 1:19 PM  

It's a shame her browser is broken; mine has a close button.

Perhaps she's oppressed by your animal magnetism keeping her on the page?

Blogger James Dixon June 06, 2013 1:31 PM  

> ...and I have to say its one of the worst things I have ever discovered.

The poor dear has obviously led a very sheltered life if this is one of the worst things she has every encountered.

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 1:33 PM  

i know math is really hard... but this whole.. "The world is over-populated" thing is just to much to take sometimes.

Anonymous AlteredFate June 06, 2013 1:35 PM  

Oh great. Yet another person who won't have sex with any of us.

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 1:38 PM  

"Oh great. Yet another person who won't have sex with any of us."

where's the thumbs up button?

Anonymous DrTorch June 06, 2013 1:45 PM  

'China has a one child policy' doesn't really prove the world is overpopulated,

Thanks for getting that out there early. That sort of nonsense should be identified up front. Saves a lot of time. And it's pretty clear that logic and reason are not valued in the current educational system.

It's also no coincidence that logic was essential to the "liberal arts," so named b/c they led people to liberty away from slavery to people and to superstitions. Apparently some people are happy to be in chains.

Anonymous Azimus June 06, 2013 1:46 PM  

Sunny, employing the tactic of "everybody knows thats crazy talk" is usually a prettty good indicator that you've conceded the argument for lack of a counter, you just haven't come to grips with it yet. I would love for you to do the math - what would happen if there were no mothers? And what would happen if every woman was a mother? What's the end game for either scenario?

At every wedding I goto, in the receiving line I shake the groom's hand and hug the bride and look at them earnestly and say good people should have kids. It's the only way we get more good kids and keep this thing going.

Anonymous johnc June 06, 2013 1:47 PM  

It's surprising that there are people that still think the world is over-populated. How does this ignorance keep getting propagated?

Anonymous justonawalkabout June 06, 2013 1:49 PM  

'For proof of this, please go check up on China's policy on bearing children.'

Please do more research into China's policy on bearing children, and then consider the luxury of your position. I expect you believe in human rights?

Secondly, over population statistics are based on numbers crunched back in 1968. The world demographics have shifted dramatically.

http://www.cepr.org/pubs/bulletin/dps/dp213.htm

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf

http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/kas/kas_01overpopulation.html

The barebones of it, is that we are told the world has 7 billion people on it, when the odds are likely that we actually have just over 5 billion. The birth rate has been steadily declining, and yet the population figures represented in mainstream press are still basing their over population argument on old data.

Anonymous Musashi June 06, 2013 1:50 PM  

Merely one among the many smart, strong, empowered, victim-whiners out there.......whatever.

Anonymous Porky June 06, 2013 1:55 PM  

Sunny,
Thank you for the sunshine bouquet.
♪ ♫

Anonymous RINO June 06, 2013 1:57 PM  

"The world is over populated."
-Every population alarmist since 1798

Blogger IM2L844 June 06, 2013 1:58 PM  

You're all nothing more than a bunch of cult members flocking to Vox who has an insane world view.

I always find comments like this to be both a little amusing and a little perplexing. When I first stumbled onto this blog back in August of 2011 (I think), There was a massive argument going on between what I later discovered were regulars (The Ilk), Vox and some trolls. Nothing much has changed since then. I've never seen a blog where such a wide variety of dissenting opinions were not only tolerated but allowed to flourish or die on their own merits. The echo chamber accusations are laughably preposterous. The regular infighting here is really beyond compare.

Blogger Amy June 06, 2013 2:00 PM  

But China's policy for how to deal with one billion Chinese has nothing to do with how the English should deal with 50 million English.

This, thank you.

Anonymous Sam the Man June 06, 2013 2:00 PM  

Sunny,

It was China, not Japan that has a single child policy. Japan is trying to get their declining population to breed. You have it backwards

The difference between your feelings and Vox's opinion is something called facts. He made a contention that women not breeding will lead to a decline in a civilized society. If you want to be taken seriously, address that. Otherwise you come across as simply another chick who thinks her being offended will result in all men falling in front of her. That is not going to happen here, though many will treat you with respect if you can respond in a logical manner.

In short, Grow up.

Blogger crazyivan498 June 06, 2013 2:01 PM  

There is no argument made in the response. Just moral outrage and name calling. "Look at me, I am so upset with you right now. You are so wrong." So do feminist and rabbit people go together? Seems to be one in the same.

Anonymous George of the Hole June 06, 2013 2:03 PM  

Fat.

Anonymous wEz June 06, 2013 2:04 PM  

Sunny: 'I agree with vox on abortion..' but we're overpopulated and need to take china's reproductive stance.. WTF? Logical often Sunny?

Blogger Bogey June 06, 2013 2:06 PM  

If overpopulation is a genuine concern, then the West should stop sending food to Africa, stop intervening in Third World wars, and permit the African and Asian populations to fall back to the levels they were prior to World War II.

If true this would also reduce global warming gasses. That is if we stay within the logical alarmists frame work.

Anonymous hardscrabble farmer June 06, 2013 2:08 PM  

Wow, another righteous screed against the patriarchy, how novel. One imagines she is already heavily inked and pirced to demonstrate her nonconformity.

"Just about everything here disgusts me..."

Now you know how we feel.

Listen, you're young and callow, you've obviously lived a sheltered life and had your head filled with egalitarian fantasies, but don't worry, you'll learn.

You should hope it doesn't come too late, after the blush of youth has past and you find yourself bitter and alone in an efficiency apartment filled with cats unable to communicate with your neighbors in your native tongue.

GLWT



Anonymous fish June 06, 2013 2:09 PM  

How does this ignorance keep getting propagated?

Don't know! It does seem to be inexhaustible though.

Anonymous Sunny June 06, 2013 2:09 PM  

Commenting directly at Vox here. As I'm sure the comments are about to be spammed with his cult members agreeing with him. I'm 100% it would take me far too long to reply to everyone.

I am not, in any way, telling you that you were wrong in explaining yourself. However explaining yourself does not equate to to the harsh judgement you rendered. Knowing full well that your followers would leap to agree with anything you said.
Absolutely no one deserves that.
As you'll also find, I also commented on the fact that I do not agree with your beliefs. I was not just simply leaping in to defend AA. Although as I said, your treatment of her was extremely harsh.
I hope that one day, the words you speak and your disregard for other people will have consequences and you will truly see how you have erred.

Sunny

Anonymous mjb June 06, 2013 2:09 PM  

The only conclusion I can get from people who feel the need to comment in this manner on sites they disagree with is that they are attention whores. Feminists and scalzi types all seem to be the majority of the antagonists on VD, and rarely do we have an intelligent opponent here. They all typically fall into the feminist model. Me, me, me!

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 2:09 PM  

"I always find comments like this to be both a little amusing and a little perplexing."

Wouldn't be fun to be in a cult where literally at least one devout member went off on the cult leader every time he opened his mouth?

Anonymous Sunny June 06, 2013 2:12 PM  

Also, my point of China was not me agreeing on the methods they use. Simply pointing out that there IS overpopulation.

Sunny

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 2:12 PM  

"
I am not, in any way, telling you that you were wrong in explaining yourself. However explaining yourself does not equate to to the harsh judgement you rendered. Knowing full well that your followers would leap to agree with anything you said.
Absolutely no one deserves that. "

Can someone translate this?

Anonymous mjb June 06, 2013 2:14 PM  

Also, my point of China was not me agreeing on the methods they use. Simply pointing out that there IS overpopulation.

Buy what measure are you using to qualify that statement?

Anonymous RINO June 06, 2013 2:15 PM  

Simply pointing out that there IS overpopulation.

What would you like to be done? Do you support ending all foreign aid? Ending all involvement in third world violence?

Anonymous Godfrey June 06, 2013 2:16 PM  

Wealthy Power Elites believe THEIR world is over-populated and are manipulating culture and government policy to reduce population levels.

If you consciously choose to dance to their tune, then by all means do so.

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 2:17 PM  

"Also, my point of China was not me agreeing on the methods they use. Simply pointing out that there IS overpopulation. "

So...

There are a lot of people in new york. Therefore wyoming is overpopulated!

Anonymous Azimus June 06, 2013 2:17 PM  

Sunny please understand, manycomnents here are actually written to reach you and make you think.

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 2:19 PM  

Doubling down with nothing. Interesting move. That will show Vox and his rabid cult of zombie followers.

Sunny dear, I know you don't understand this but really you should get down on your knees everyday and thank God that you live in a society that is still so rich that you can be so dumb. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Anonymous Stingray June 06, 2013 2:20 PM  

Can someone translate this?

You hurt my feelings. You hurt AA's feelings. Then, the commenters hurt mine and AA's feelings. Peoples feelings should never be hurt.

Anonymous Weasel-Matic 5000 June 06, 2013 2:21 PM  

grabs popcorn...


now don't be harsh to Sunny.

Blogger Bogey June 06, 2013 2:22 PM  

Also, my point of China was not me agreeing on the methods they use. Simply pointing out that there IS overpopulation.

Sunny


Duly noted, for future reference when commenting, realize that a blog such as this will have a comment section where most people cannot take the proprietor's dick out of their mouths long enough to think for themselves.

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 2:23 PM  

"You hurt my feelings. You hurt AA's feelings. Then, the commenters hurt mine and AA's feelings. Peoples feelings should never be hurt."

Awesome. Thanks Ray... I was just... at a loss.

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 2:24 PM  

"Duly noted, for future reference when commenting, realize that a blog such as this will have a comment section where most people cannot take the proprietor's dick out of their mouths long enough to think for themselves."

You know there is a thread just below this where regular commenters are calling Vox an idiot right?

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 2:25 PM  

Whose dick is in your mouth Bogey?

Anonymous Apollyon June 06, 2013 2:25 PM  

What irritates me with these types of arguments is that they rarely address the points. Typically, the argument is against a strawman, or taken out of context. I would think Vox' response would show that the 'overpopulation' argument is incorrect since it is irrelevant if there are too many people in China. It doesn't mean a white Western woman should not have children.

- Apollyon

Anonymous Wendy June 06, 2013 2:25 PM  

Although as I said, your treatment of her was extremely harsh.

On the contrary. Vox was quite polite. It's the facts that are harsh. In fact, life is harsh. Try looking at things with more emotional disconnect and try not to take everything personally, because you're reacting like Vox was talking to you.

And no, this is no cult. The level of disagreement among regulars can be epic (and entertaining), varying from topic to topic.

Blogger Amy June 06, 2013 2:28 PM  

I suppose we should be glad China has so many people. Who else would be willing to work for pennies making the shiny toys us Westerners love so much?

Anonymous Andre June 06, 2013 2:28 PM  

Hahahahahaha Sunny is hilarious!!!

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 2:29 PM  

"Who else would be willing to work for pennies making the shiny toys us Westerners love so much?"

Indians. Dot-on-the-head indians... not beat-on-your-tom-tom indians.

Blogger Amy June 06, 2013 2:30 PM  

Well, Nate, India is overpopulated too! But they're vegetarian, mostly, so at least they are not contributing to the horrible treatment of animals.

Blogger tz June 06, 2013 2:32 PM  

There is no "overpopulation" even in China. Nor in most communist countries. Was the Berlin Wall that long ago and which direction did the people wish to go but had such boundaries preventing it? If China was overpopulated, they would let their surplus emigrate.

AA does not have to see reason, however someone doing engineering on the basis of something other than reason will not merely fail, but likely cause a lot of devastation. Bridges could be more pretty if they didn't have to avoid collapsing.

The other thing which I don't think was made too clear since it is typically an economics term is there is an opportunity cost for everything. AA cannot choose to be 16 again. And when she is 24 she will not be able to rewind to 18. By becoming an Environmental Engineer, she is foreclosing many other possibilities. That is often overlooked and forgotten.

I also forgot about student load debt - she may becoming a slave to debt, and the bankers are all men. I see no small amount of irony that she would consider marriage to a solvent man as being more oppressive than being in unremittable debt to Wall Street, but she may be independently wealthy.

I personally do care, but only that it is a fully informed, rational decision. People choose hell daily - that is what free will is about. But in this case women choose to compete in the rat race and when they start losing, instead of affirming they made a bad choice, they complain the system stinks and needs to be changed so the inferior can win over the superior. Or because they decided to wait until their fertility was low (and or damaged it on the cock carousel), that I pay for her treatments so she can have a baby when she wants it. And the man-fault divorce if she just gets tired or wants to trade up later.

If AA is willing to live the rest of her life with the consequences of her decision, fine. I hope she is very successful and ends up doing good for the world in that capacity. And that she enjoys doing it.

Anonymous RINO June 06, 2013 2:35 PM  

You know there is a thread just below this where regular commenters are calling Vox an idiot right?

But .... one time Vox banned someone who disagreed.

Poor Tad. Poor flamboyant Tad.

Anonymous DrTorch June 06, 2013 2:35 PM  

I hope that one day, the words you speak and your disregard for other people will have consequences

Yup, she is definitely not sleeping w/ VD.

Anonymous Mike T June 06, 2013 2:39 PM  

I hope that one day, the words you speak and your disregard for other people will have consequences and you will truly see how you have erred.

Wishing evil on others, how classy of you Sunny.

Anonymous jack June 06, 2013 2:39 PM  

Many of our Ilk here regularly get keel hauled by Vox, Spacebunny, and some of the more senior Ilk. I should know. Usually, its well deserved.
I'm also proud to say I never put anyone's dick in my mouth, much less the likes of VD. Please! If I were into dicks Vox would probably be the last on the list. Who wants to be sucking away and getting a lesson in philosophy at the same time. Really!

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 2:45 PM  

"I'm also proud to say I never put anyone's dick in my mouth, much less the likes of VD. Please! If I were into dicks Vox would probably be the last on the list. Who wants to be sucking away and getting a lesson in philosophy at the same time. Really!"

This is one of the most awkward things I've ever read.

Anonymous MrGreenMan June 06, 2013 2:46 PM  

This is one of those women who, if she were a Christian, would say it was being "nice" and being "kind" not to mention that women are sinners, too, and every bit in need of salvation as men...and demand that the pretty darlings be told that prettiness will get them a pussy pass on Judgment Day...because they can accept men are sinners, sure, but knowing that they, too, are sinners, would upset them. Therefore, the "nice" and "kind" thing to do (in the mind of one who truly favors avoiding conflict rather than anything that could be called positive resolution or change or even catharsis) is to let them feel good on the road to perdition.

Anonymous Porky June 06, 2013 2:47 PM  

China overpopulated?

They've got more vacant housing than anybody.

Blogger ajw308 June 06, 2013 2:47 PM  

please go check up on China's policy
Hey, China still has a great policy on population control. Mao had 60 to 120 million of his countrymen slaughtered and is still held as a national hero.

Rumor has it the Chinese government still bills the family of for the bullet.

Anonymous Anonymous June 06, 2013 2:48 PM  

"I hope that one day, the words you speak and your disregard for other people will have consequences and you will truly see how you have erred."

Sunny, do you mean somone will use word to hurt Vox's feelings, as he seems to have hurt AA's and yours? And isn't that exactly what you just ried to do to Vox?

So, Vox, have you learned the error of your ways?

JAG


Blogger ajw308 June 06, 2013 2:49 PM  

This is one of the most awkward things I've ever read.
Just that it was on his mind is enough to make one wonder.

Resist temptation and it will flee from you.

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 2:49 PM  

"I'm also proud to say I never put anyone's dick in my mouth, much less the likes of VD. Please! If I were into dicks Vox would probably be the last on the list. Who wants to be sucking away and getting a lesson in philosophy at the same time. Really!"

even the Ilk are threatening to not have sex with Vox.

Anonymous tdm June 06, 2013 2:51 PM  

"Just about everyone here disgusts me."

I know what you mean Sonny. Some here disgust me too, even some of the ones I agree with.

Blogger IM2L844 June 06, 2013 2:52 PM  

But .... one time Vox banned someone who disagreed.

But not for disagreeing or even for being disagreeable.

Anonymous tdm June 06, 2013 2:52 PM  

Sunny.....sorry

Blogger ajw308 June 06, 2013 2:54 PM  

AA seems so bent on not benefiting any man in any way.

I know what she's going to do with her degree.

She's going to invent a biodegradable tampon.

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 2:55 PM  

Yes Sunny, they are barbarians but I will save you in my shining armor while astride my mighty white steed.

tdm save us the show. Medieval Times already has the market pegged.

Blogger Lovekraft June 06, 2013 2:55 PM  

It always amazes me how smug these progressives are. Overblown revulsion at opinions that differ from the PC script. Childish insults instead of matching arguments.

Pathetic little girl, this blog isn't for you, don't you understand?

Anonymous paradox June 06, 2013 2:57 PM  

AA is welcome to become an evolutionary dead end. Really her kind need to become extinct.

Here... overpopulation explained on the level a boomer could understand.

Anonymous tdm June 06, 2013 2:58 PM  

"tdm save us the show."

ok.

Anonymous liljoe June 06, 2013 2:58 PM  

what the...? Chinese government policy is proof the world is overpopulated? Talk about a slave to of the State. It merely has to set policy to convince this one it is Truth. Wow

Blogger Bogey June 06, 2013 3:02 PM  

Hmm, we know Vox had many gay guys hitting on him during his club days and admitted it built his self-esteem, he's admitted to preferring a nice wine to a hefty brew, and his pheromones are strong enough to even waft across the internet. Gossh you guyss are sso on to me.

Anonymous Crude June 06, 2013 3:03 PM  

Also, my point of China was not me agreeing on the methods they use. Simply pointing out that there IS overpopulation.

Sunny, you don't understand. Pointing out that country X has a policy does not suffice to prove that a problem exists. What you're saying is similar to, "smoking pot must be really dangerous. My evidence for this claim is the fact that it's illegal."

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 3:03 PM  

"Hmm, we know Vox had many gay guys hitting on him during his club days and admitted it built his self-esteem, he's admitted to preferring a nice wine to a hefty brew, and his pheromones are strong enough to even waft across the internet"

you left out soccer, umbrella drinks, and italian shoes man! come on!

Anonymous Edjamacator June 06, 2013 3:04 PM  

You're all nothing more than a bunch of cult members flocking to Vox who has an insane world view.

Does that mean ATOB is the revealed word of Vox? Or would it be another book?

Oh, and Sunny, do stop posting your nonsense. Your inane little position has been refuted and proven incorrect already. It was done in quite a few of the comments you've ignored to save your precious little ego from being destroyed.

Anonymous Porky June 06, 2013 3:05 PM  

"I hope that one day, the words you speak and your disregard for other people will have consequences"

-Sunny


"Just about everyone here disgusts me."

-Sunny

Blogger Lovekraft June 06, 2013 3:06 PM  

So of course the reply to my comment would be "but aren't you throwing out insults, doing what you are condemning?"

Yes. Yes I am. And if you were as aware of progressive tactics of intimidation, censorship, violence, you would be as quick as I am to shut down any inkling of infiltration.

Progressivism, liberalism, feminism are societal scourges which in the past century have resulting in vast wastelands of destruction of lives, spirits and societies. These are ideologies which claim to oppose violence while invading freedoms on a daily basis.

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 06, 2013 3:07 PM  

I can certainly see how "the good of the species" isn't exactly a compelling argument for the twentysomething set.

In any case, we have several kids, in part because 1) we want to give more kids a chance by coming into a good home, and 2) I want to outbreed liberals.

Anonymous Ives June 06, 2013 3:10 PM  

Sunny, it's nice to know that we disgust you. The question is do you disgust us? Please post a link to some photos of you so that we may determine if you disgust us. Thank you very much and have a nice day.

Anonymous mjb June 06, 2013 3:10 PM  

you left out soccer, umbrella drinks, and italian shoes man! come on!

And glocks.

Anonymous Edjamacator June 06, 2013 3:10 PM  

This is one of the most awkward things I've ever read.

I have some brain soap if you want to try it. Sadly, it's not working quickly enough on that mental image....back to scrubbing...

Blogger The Observer June 06, 2013 3:10 PM  

By the by, for anyone who supports the one-child policy, please be aware that this is the logical result -

Chinese Officials Arrest Parents for exceeding one child policy and place 13 month old on ground and run over repeatedly with truck:

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Government-employees-arrested-for-murder-of-baby-who-was-over-one-child-quota-27073.html

This is what it's come to, eh? Post-birth abortions being given by state officials for those who exceed the policy.

Not to mention the fact that less than one-third of Chinese men can now afford to get married due to massive gender imbalance:

http://t.co/yBRIModF2x


In fact, the Canadian research group Conference Board of Canada warns of economic crash due to population collapse in developed nations around the world.

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/e-library/abstract.aspx?did=5445

The next time I hear someone whine about "overpopulation", I think I'll remind them that farmers in the western world are paid NOT to grow.

Now, surprisingly, China doesn't grow enough food to feed its population, but that's not because of lack of resources, but rather, deliberate resource misallocation in the form of its cities being built on arable land (compared to the US, where there is comparatively little competition in land use), adulteration of food supplies for profit (cadmium rice, melamine milk, etc) and massive pollution destroying food production capabilities (air pollution in and around Beijing warranting hazard pay, 90% of rivers being polluted to the point where aquatic life is unsustainable, etc).

The Malthusians have been at it since the second century AD when Tertullian declared the fruits of the earth could not support people, and they've been wrong ever since.

Anonymous mjb June 06, 2013 3:15 PM  

We know what a white knight is, what do we call Sunny? She came into the defense of a sister. Amazon tribalism? I'm not too creative, but there has to be a phrase to explain this.

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 3:18 PM  

mjb, Sunny is nothing special and does not merit the position of an identifying slogan. She is just another member of the warren coming by to tell us that we are terrible because we are not in the club.

Don't you feel the burn?

Anonymous Godfrey June 06, 2013 3:18 PM  

Does anyone have any data on brainwashing? Are women more susceptible to it than men?

Anonymous Edjamacator June 06, 2013 3:20 PM  

Chinese Officials Arrest Parents for exceeding one child policy and place 13 month old on ground and run over repeatedly with truck

Sunny wouldn't have a problem with that. It's just the state keeping the population down. In fact, this creepy little excerpt kind of hints towards allowing this behavior.

Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman (10 PM, Science):

Some scientists believe life doesn't truly begin until we are conscious. But when does consciousness begin? One child psychologist's experiments suggest true consciousness may not begin until the age of five once children become aware of how the world perceives them. Does life begin after we are able to walk and talk? The argument extends beyond human life.


Need to kill your kid because it's crying too much? Wellll...you know....it might not really be "alive" the way we are. So it just may be okay, ya know? Kids aren't necessarily people like us....

Anonymous Edjamacator June 06, 2013 3:20 PM  

Does anyone have any data on brainwashing? Are women more susceptible to it than men?

From external or internal sources?

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 3:20 PM  

"We know what a white knight is, what do we call Sunny?"

We call her millennial. You can tell by the fact that you can't actually communicate with her. Its like a language barrier... but not quite.

If she had 3 or 4 friends with her... then they could talk to you. But only after they established consensus.

Anonymous Poglavnik June 06, 2013 3:22 PM  

Vox is a Big Meanie.He hurt this lady`s feelings.

In a overpopulated world I am sure someone is crying over that.

Blogger The Observer June 06, 2013 3:24 PM  

@tz

"There is no "overpopulation" even in China. Nor in most communist countries. Was the Berlin Wall that long ago and which direction did the people wish to go but had such boundaries preventing it? If China was overpopulated, they would let their surplus emigrate."

Actually, China is desperately trying to send off its surplus men generated by the wonders of sex-selective abortion to west africa and their projects over there, encouraging them to marry the local women and settle down there.

Naturally, the west africans have picked up on this and aren't too happy about it.

The 1.2:1 overall ratio, the 1.46 and 1.91:1 rural ratio for the first and second child respectively paint a grim future for China's demographics and stability. Lots of pissed-off young men with no way to found a family? Ruh-roh, Raggy.

Blogger Joshua Dyal June 06, 2013 3:25 PM  

Not to mention the fact that less than one-third of Chinese men can now afford to get married due to massive gender imbalance:

Perfect long term solution to China's "population problem" though.

Anonymous Godfrey June 06, 2013 3:26 PM  

@Edjamacator June 06, 2013 3:20 PM From external or internal sources?


Any source. I'm seriously interested.

Blogger The Observer June 06, 2013 3:26 PM  

Does anyone have any data on brainwashing? Are women more susceptible to it than men?

Not sure on brainwashing, but you can check out the Milgram Experiment.

Generally, about half the men refused to go on with the experiment, but every single time the Milgram Experiment was tried, overwhelmingly - if not all - the women capitulated and carried out the experiment to the end. Some of them cried, sobbed, begged to be allowed to stop, but in the end they all deferred to the authority figure.

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 3:35 PM  

Slight point of correction Nate. They already know what the established consensus is. They just have to confer to determine if your opinion is aligned with orthodoxy correctly or not. Takes 3-4 of them to figure it out.

Anonymous Anonymous Poster Extraordinaire June 06, 2013 3:40 PM  

I propose a new drinking game, any time Godfrey posts a comment with "Power Elite" in it, we drink.

I like to drink!

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 3:41 PM  

'Slight point of correction Nate. They already know what the established consensus is. They just have to confer to determine if your opinion is aligned with orthodoxy correctly or not. Takes 3-4 of them to figure it out."

fair enough.

Anonymous Anonymous June 06, 2013 3:47 PM  

@Sunny

I wrote this reply in the other thread, before I realized no one was commenting there anymore.

Just about everyone here disgusts me. Vox, and just about all the people commenting, with the exception of a few.

That's because someone else TAUGHT you to be offended at what is said here, not because you've actually thought through Vox's (or others) arguments first. You were TRAINED to believe that what is said here are malicious lies, you have not examined the points on their own merits.

Everyone is telling AA that she has to see reason. To marry and further the evolutionary cycle by having children.

No, everyone is telling AA that procreation is more important for women as a group than anything else. Your reaction to this blog seems to indicate that you find that opinion offensive. Tell me, what would you think if I said something like, "The primary value of men is in their paycheck." Would that be offensive to you? It should be if the other idea is. Societies work best when people specialize in what they are good at, and leave others to what they are best at. Men cannot bear children, so they cannot specialize in this aspect of building and maintaining a civilization. Women can, but somehow all women are being taught to postpone children until their fertility twilight years with the belief that there's nothing wrong with that.

If you want to complain about the burden of fertility on society, complain that real schooling starts so late in life. Complain to the government that you cannot start making your own decisions until you're 18 rather than 15-16. Complain that you cannot begin a real education + career until your best fertile years. Work to move the age of consent around so that women CAN take advantage of their earlier maturity.

Don't call men offensive because they are correctly pointing out that it is the females who are dropping the ball on making babies at the right time.

The world is over populated. For proof of this, please go check up on China's policy on bearing children.

Wrong. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_decline#Decline_by_nation_or_territory

Many parts of the developed world are in population decline. The cited reason, on Wikipedia (if you had chosen to actually use google before posting you might have seen this) is most often "LOW BIRTH RATE". Look at that list and you'll see countries like, Germany, Greece, Italy, Japan, The Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, and many more. The only developed nations that have a positive population increase have one because of IMMIGRATION, the U.S. included. China is STILL DEVELOPING. Once they've developed and internalized most of the feminist mantras, the'll decline just fine. Worse yet, their society will financially collapse because there will not be enough young people to care for all the aging people who cannot work.

So yes, women are rejecting their primary value to society, en masse, in numbers large enough to affect the population of developed nations. The proof is so obvious, you'd have to be willfully ignorant to miss it.

Honestly, who are any of you to presume to tell anyone what to do or how to live?
You're all nothing more than a bunch of cult members flocking to Vox who has an insane world view.


Elders. That's what we are. We're people older than this AA woman who wrote the letter. There was a time when young people actually listened to what those who have more experience in life had to say. In those days, large batches of young people did not believe the lies you and AA seem to subscribe to.

Anonymous RINO June 06, 2013 3:51 PM  

There was a time when young people actually listened to what those who have more experience in life had to say. In those days, large batches of young people did not believe the lies you and AA seem to subscribe to.

Maybe they are listening to their elders ....... boomer elders.

Blogger The Deuce June 06, 2013 3:53 PM  

Sunny's post is hilarious. Nearly all of it is nothing more than her blurting her offended feeeeewings at length. The only assertion of fact she makes is that the world is overpopulated... which she tries to prove in completely non-sequiter manner merely by citing the fact that China has a one-child policy.

But, hey, she's an 18-year-old girl. They're supposed to be dumb.

Anonymous Oso June 06, 2013 3:56 PM  

Somebody dial Whine-One-One, we need a WWWAAAAAHHHHHHmbulance!

Blogger Mike June 06, 2013 3:57 PM  

It is always a wonder to me when arguing with … well liberals is not quite the word I want. Progressives? No, that’s not right either – no progress can result from what they believe.

How about the insular?

Yeah, that works, these folks aren’t dumb, just un-curious.

Picture a Formula One car, a marvel of engineering and design, capable of incredible speed and handling performance, but zooming endlessly around the same track – day after day, going in circles, never getting anywhere, never seeing anything new, never hearing anything but the same old sounds.

A person like this is always shocked when they run across someone who has gone places and done things, and holds opinions which are the opposite of theirs.

You can always tell when you have met one of the insular, they cringe from the idea of pitting their beliefs against yours, the very idea of being asked to explain the reasoning and logic behind their worldview enrages them, and in debate, they inevitably want to begin from the point of everyone agreeing they are correct, and the only item up for discussion is how you will now convert to their way of seeing things.

I used to have a friend like that, he would make an outrageous, “If you vote republican, you are worse than a nazi” type statement, and when I would ask why he believed that – not even saying he was wrong – just asking why he believed what he did, he would fly into a rage and scream that I was arguing in bad faith. The funny thing was, he was a highly respected high school earth science teacher complete with a master’s degree – go figure.

When all else fails, the insular call you a racistsexisthomophobicwhiteoppressor, and retreat back to their familiar circular track for another comforting session of going round in circles.

Blogger El Borak June 06, 2013 3:57 PM  

MJB We know what a white knight is, what do we call Sunny? She came into the defense of a sister.

She's a Histrionic Grenade Jumper. She comes to the "defense" of a self-selected victim by politely pushing her off a live grenade and loudly taking it for the team. This is mostly done by bravely stepping up to tell people she whom doesn't know and who don't care how she feels about them.

Anonymous Mina June 06, 2013 3:59 PM  

I personally think that a bunch of adult men intellectually ganging up on a teen-age girl is a bit beyond the pale.

Clearly she wandered in by accident and you are into her like a hungry pack of hyenas.

Where is the sport in this, exactly?

Anonymous George of the Hole June 06, 2013 4:00 PM  

Sunny...

Are you a fat cow?

Anonymous DrTorch June 06, 2013 4:01 PM  

But, hey, she's an 18-year-old girl. They're supposed to be dumb.

Cue Todd Rundgren.

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 4:05 PM  

OT but related.

Oso Waaambulance comment reminded me of this classic.

"I need a bambulance" 911 call. I was living close to Indy when this happened.

I don't care who you are, that right there is funny!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7AB9rzIJPM

Anonymous Anonymous June 06, 2013 4:06 PM  

@Mina
I personally think that a bunch of adult men intellectually ganging up on a teen-age girl is a bit beyond the pale.

Clearly she wandered in by accident and you are into her like a hungry pack of hyenas.

Where is the sport in this, exactly?


IMHO, all internet comments should be treated as though the author is unknown. If the replies are harsh, it should only be because the claims made were outrageous. If we're going to argue for special treatment based on age/sex, then we're essentially arguing for discrimination. If she wandered in here accidentally, then frankly I would like to pull out an old meme and say, "Welcome to Fark."

Anonymous Heh June 06, 2013 4:12 PM  

If overpopulation is a genuine concern, then the West should stop sending food to Africa, stop intervening in Third World wars, and permit the African and Asian populations to fall back to the levels they were prior to World War II.

If we want more dead people, shouldn't we intervene in Third World Wars in order to keep them going as long as possible?

Blogger The Observer June 06, 2013 4:13 PM  

"I personally think that a bunch of adult men intellectually ganging up on a teen-age girl is a bit beyond the pale.

Clearly she wandered in by accident and you are into her like a hungry pack of hyenas.

Where is the sport in this, exactly?"

I believe Vox said something about giving both a grown man and a 5-year-old girl the same level of competition.

Anonymous Cail Corishev June 06, 2013 4:16 PM  

The next time I hear someone whine about "overpopulation", I think I'll remind them that farmers in the western world are paid NOT to grow.

No kidding. When the US government stops paying farmers to keep 36 million acres of fertile land out of production, and food prices catch up to inflation for the first time in decades, I'll start taking this overpopulation stuff seriously.

On second thought, nah, I'll still think it's stupid. How long has that boy been crying wolf again?

Anonymous Inane Rambler June 06, 2013 4:22 PM  

China's "One Child Policy" only really affected the cities. The government looked the other way for peasants because they knew the peasants needed large families to help with the farm labor, and China is still predominantly rural today (partially due to the government keeping people out of cities.)

Blogger Calvin Dodge June 06, 2013 4:22 PM  

Sunny: "Also, my point of China was not me agreeing on the methods they use. Simply pointing out that there IS overpopulation. "

By similar logic, one can conclude China has too many Christians and Falun Gong adherents - not too mention too many dissidents - as the Chinese government is doing its best to contain those OTHER threats to well-being.

Blogger The Observer June 06, 2013 4:26 PM  

"China's "One Child Policy" only really affected the cities. The government looked the other way for peasants because they knew the peasants needed large families to help with the farm labor, and China is still predominantly rural today (partially due to the government keeping people out of cities.)"

Um...wrong. Rural (and by that, I mean very rural) people CAN petition the state to be allowed two children, but it's not a sure thing AND their agricultural lifestyle means that sex-selective abortion is actually *more* rampant amongst them, because sons are more valuable as farmhands. See my above comment - 1.2:1 national sex ratio, compared to 1.46:1 for first child and 1.91:1 for second child in rural areas.

Absolute numbers still matter, but the massively skewed sex ratio is the more immediate demographics problem they face.

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 4:29 PM  

"I personally think that a bunch of adult men intellectually ganging up on a teen-age girl is a bit beyond the pale. "

You're just jealous.

Anonymous Mina June 06, 2013 4:29 PM  

I just didn't think that posters here were really into shooting fish in a barrel - somehow I got the impression you were up for bigger challenges if you were going to spend the time.

I'd not expect anyone here to find an 18yo girl a worthy debate opponent, especially considering her obvious naiveté.

Anonymous George of the Hole June 06, 2013 4:31 PM  

Sunny....

Are you a big fat walrus of a girl?

Anonymous the bandit June 06, 2013 4:32 PM  

@ Observer, "you can check out the Milgram Experiment.

Generally, about half the men refused to go on with the experiment, but every single time the Milgram Experiment was tried, overwhelmingly - if not all - the women capitulated"

I checked it out and, unless the facts have been white-washed in the intervening years, you are greatly mistaken.

Blogger The Observer June 06, 2013 4:35 PM  

@Bandit:

Hmm? I'll admit I was going off memory here - I'll check it out again. If I remembered wrong, I'll retract that statement.

Anonymous Catan June 06, 2013 4:36 PM  

"I just didn't think that posters here were really into shooting fish in a barrel - somehow I got the impression you were up for bigger challenges if you were going to spend the time. "

There is no bigger challenge in the current world than refuting and destroying feeewwwings based leftist dogma.

You are trying to gain sympathy for the stupid teenager, but she doesn't deserve sympathy because she doesn't consider herself a stupid teenager. She considers herself a budding genius, while she's an idiot. This means she forfeits her 'I'm just a widdle bitty teenager, don't hurt me!" defense.

Idiots who think they're God's gift to thought need to be taken down, hard. It's for their own good.

Blogger Nate June 06, 2013 4:39 PM  

"I just didn't think that posters here were really into shooting fish in a barrel - somehow I got the impression you were up for bigger challenges if you were going to spend the time. "

Mina... please. You've been around here to long for this sort of silliness.

You know damned well we're prone to dropping the fish... barrel and all straight into the incinerator just to watch the sparks.

Blogger SDH June 06, 2013 4:40 PM  

...jack's fellatic Voxian fantasy omitted...

This is one of the most awkward things I've ever read.

Yep. Note to any other dude who thinks he can discuss his hypothetical dick smoking tendencies without sounding awkward and creepy, you can't...so don't.

Blogger The Observer June 06, 2013 4:41 PM  

@Bandit: Quickly looked it up again off wikipedia. When human subjects were used, obedience was roughly equal, although women reported experiencing greater levels of stress. When a puppy was used, half the men and all of the women obeyed.

Anonymous VD June 06, 2013 4:43 PM  

I'd not expect anyone here to find an 18yo girl a worthy debate opponent, especially considering her obvious naiveté.

Just what percentage of the people I respond to do you think can reasonably be considered worthy debate opponents for me?

I don't play that game. Taking on all comers means taking on all comers. No matter how silly or retarded they are. Also, it's funny.

Blogger Some dude June 06, 2013 4:43 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Calvin Dodge June 06, 2013 4:46 PM  

"I personally think that a bunch of adult men intellectually ganging up on a teen-age girl is a bit beyond the pale."

Did those mean men (and women - did you notice them?) call her bad names? Did anyone use more venom then she did? Did they use the sorts of terms that lefties freely spout in reference to Sarah Palin or Michelle Malkin? Did they threaten her? No?

She didn't "wander in here by accident" - she's been reading Vox for some time, and what she did most recently was yell "you're horrible" through the window, then run off. As most folks responded with amusement and/or advice - and I can't think of anyone who was as nasty as AA was - how are their responses "ganging up on her intellectually"?

Mina, your comment basically boils down to "she expressed her opinion, but you're horrible if you express a contrary opinion". Please understand that that sort of nonsense will not impress thinking people.

Blogger Some dude June 06, 2013 4:46 PM  

i wrote a comment asking if VD's reply to Sally was an example of a reframe. But then I realized, it was the simple truth. AA asked him to explain himself, and he did.

Anonymous the bandit June 06, 2013 4:47 PM  

"When a puppy was used, half the men and all of the women obeyed."

That's... counter-intuitive. Yeah, it seems that fact got melded with the "more noise, same action" fact in what you misremembered earlier.

They should do it again with kittens.

Anonymous Anonymous June 06, 2013 4:51 PM  

Somewhat related, my similar aged daughter asked me today,"have you ever meet a guy who is even more stubborn than you are and it's infuriating and you want to punch him in the face?"

Me: Yes I have! You call him Daddy.

Lana

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother June 06, 2013 4:55 PM  

You can't be an AWCA by giving the weak a break.

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 4:58 PM  

Mina,

If more people would be honest and truthful with the younger generation in society perhaps things wouldn't be quite as dire as they currently are.

What are we supposed to say "Your right sweetheart, you can hump whoever you want with no consequences and making a good power point presentation is an important contribution to society"?

Just because it is stern and non-comprimising doesn't meant advice and direction isn't compassionate.

Now go get your suit on and join tdm in the Medival Times dressing room, wardrobe is waiting for you.

Blogger Some dude June 06, 2013 4:59 PM  

@Mina

"I'd not expect anyone here to find an 18yo girl a worthy debate opponent, especially considering her obvious naiveté. "

Maybe the reason people are treating her as a worthy debate opponent is because the people here are showing her genuine respect as a fully capable and realized human being, who is strong enough and smart enough to take these punches and learn and grow. Instead of regarding her as an infantilized little flower needing coddling.

Anonymous willneverpostagain June 06, 2013 5:04 PM  

She said "almost" everyone here disgusts her.

That means I still have a chance, right?

Anonymous the bandit June 06, 2013 5:09 PM  

Hear, hear, some dude!

Anonymous Scintan June 06, 2013 5:10 PM  

I just didn't think that posters here were really into shooting fish in a barrel - somehow I got the impression you were up for bigger challenges if you were going to spend the time.

I'd not expect anyone here to find an 18yo girl a worthy debate opponent, especially considering her obvious naiveté.


I don't really get your point. Are we supposed to just walk away because an inferior opponent has entered the proverbial ring?

No, thanks. Refusing to fight back at the needed level is how the right has been losing to the left for decades. If you want equality, and you want to fight the big boys, you're deserving of the beating you get.

Anonymous beerme June 06, 2013 5:20 PM  

I agree with Sunny on overpopulation. Certain parts of the developed world are overpopulated. The U.S. is overpopulated with Africans, Amerinds, Muslims, Yankees, and Asians. Europe is overpopulated with Africans and Muslims.

I believe we should encourage these overpopulated groups to move back to their natural habitat. Especially those Yankee grasshoppers who cannot stay away from the South.

Blogger Snowy Charlie June 06, 2013 5:23 PM  

It is widely known the world is overpopulated. You say it does not affect the West, but it does between Global Warming and limited resources it does affect all of us. Sunny has said already that she does not agree with China's one child policy so enough.

She was commenting on Vox's comment to AA where he mentioned women are only useful for marriage and having children. If a woman doesn't want to have a child it's simply helping. Yes, one person may seem small but eventually it'll add together and make an impact.

Also, while the limitation of resources will indeed affect China and other Asian as well as African countries which are far overpopulated now, it will eventually hit the West as well and in fact, the impacts are already with oil.

One small example explaining this (for those of you who clearly cannot read and comprehend Sunny's comments).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b98JmQ0Cc3k

You say women aren't worth more than for birthing and having children, yet women have been growing smart since gaining their rights and have now even surpassed men in education. You can say women have it easier when it comes to applying for colleges such as Engineering like you did to AA and it is indeed true, because colleges want diversity, but men also have the same help when it comes to jobs such as teaching and nursing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9401241/IQ-tests-women-score-higher-than-men.html

http://www.russellsage.org/sites/all/files/u137/Z_Appendix-Figure-1.gif
http://www.russellsage.org/sites/all/files/u137/Z_Appendix-Figure-2.gif

Women are becoming more advanced than men in Education. They are out doing men and this trend will only continue to rise. Men have had education rights centuries before women in the west, yet in only a few decades women are outscoring men. You can deny it all you want, fight it or don't. It's clearly a proven fact.

Sunny was not whining about you guys being mean, she was simply stating that arguments can be done without your petty name calling such as calling her a "fat cow."

On a final note... Sunny said she agreed with Vox's view on abortion which involves that she disagrees with it's legal state, so why would some of you assume she agrees with China's forced abortions on women?

There are simple ways of controlling populations without abortions such as condoms and birth control.

Any woman who does not want to have children is not useless because she adds her work and efforts into our workplace that allows her to earn money to help spawn and grow her local economy, her countries economy, and also our world's economy. Which is a much appreciated gesture since we're currently in an economic recession.

Oh, and marriage is a religious practice that not every woman and man partake in because not every man or woman is religious or believes in marriage.

-Snowy Charlie. <3 you Sunny! Don't ever change! :)

Blogger Snowy Charlie June 06, 2013 5:25 PM  

One other thing, if you disagree with what someone has to say because they are simply 18 you might want to take that up with both your local and government's education system seeing as she is apart of our future generation who will be running the world when this generation moves on.

-Snowy Charlie.

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 5:29 PM  

So much fail.

tdm and Mina were just the pikers. The real white knight has arrived.

Anonymous Anonymous June 06, 2013 5:32 PM  

yet women have been growing smart since gaining their rights and have now even surpassed men in education.

How is that done? Gender neutral photosynthesis?

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother June 06, 2013 5:32 PM  

Avast! I hear the thunder of approaching hoof beats! Could it be, Yes, it is! Sir White Knight a Lot shall save yon fair helpless maiden flower from the evil misogynistic Voxian Ilk! See the froth drip from their sexist fangs!

Alas, it is too late. She has been deflowered...

Anonymous Loki of Asgard June 06, 2013 5:33 PM  

Does anyone have any data on brainwashing? Are women more susceptible to it than men?

Both are susceptible, but you must use different techniques.

I am afraid I cannot supply you with exact numbers. Suffice to say that the expert has spoken.

Anonymous PCA June 06, 2013 5:33 PM  

Actually, this "bunch of cult members" made me think there might be some hope for civilization, Sunny.

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 5:38 PM  

Snowy, just for clarification sake. Since it is so "well known" that the world is overpopulated, what is the appropriate population level for humans here on planet earth?

Anonymous Loki of Asgard June 06, 2013 5:44 PM  

I personally think that a bunch of adult men intellectually ganging up on a teen-age girl is a bit beyond the pale.

Behold what happens when a woman flies into a rage and goes about slapping people. Her inability to strike a solid blow matters not, for striking another is an invitation to combat.

Clearly she wandered in by accident and you are into her like a hungry pack of hyenas.

Had she paid attention to the comment sections, she might have paused to think.

Where is the sport in this, exactly?

Doubtless you also complain when someone uses a gun to down a buck. How, indeed, is that "sporting"?

I just didn't think that posters here were really into shooting fish in a barrel - somehow I got the impression you were up for bigger challenges if you were going to spend the time.

And if you mean to invest time in viewing a film, it were better to watch a documentary on the history of pencils than, say, The Expendables, yes?

I'd not expect anyone here to find an 18yo girl a worthy debate opponent, especially considering her obvious naiveté.

Were it not for my consort, I would now be convinced of Team Woman's universality.

Anonymous Mudz June 06, 2013 5:49 PM  

OHNO! WE'RE GOING TO OVERPOPULATE OURSELVES INTO EXTINCTION! O.O

Wait... hang on a tick...

Blogger Snowy Charlie June 06, 2013 6:03 PM  

"OHNO! WE'RE GOING TO OVERPOPULATE OURSELVES INTO EXTINCTION! O.O

Wait... hang on a tick..."

Oh indeed, if you would take a look at nature, if let's say there are wolves in a population and the wolves eat bunnies and say that hunters are allowed to come in 2 months a year to kill them to control the population. Well, now suddenly there is a ban on said hunts and the wolf population is no longer controlled. The wolf population expands causing there to be a lack of bunnies to feed the wolves until the wolf population eventually decreases or even dies out. It's simple middle school science.

Anonymous HoosierHillbilly June 06, 2013 6:03 PM  

Steinbeck was right about some things - "In the combat between wisdom and feeling, wisdom never wins."

Blogger "1951" June 06, 2013 6:04 PM  

You're all nothing more than a bunch of cult members flocking to Vox who has an insane world view.

Not at all. Why, I myself have told our host that he's full of crap on more than one occasion. In fact, the frequency with which combox writers disagree with our host is one reason I visit this site daily.

PS: It's "worldview", sweetheart.

Anonymous feral1404 June 06, 2013 6:07 PM  

"Who else would be willing to work for pennies making the shiny toys us Westerners love so much?"

Indians. Dot-on-the-head indians... not beat-on-your-tom-tom indians.

"Dot not feather," or "Feather not dot": rolls off the tongue much more easily.

Anonymous Catan June 06, 2013 6:08 PM  

It is widely known the world is overpopulated.

you mean...CONSENSUS? Hey buddy, what happens when birthrates decline and the general population ages, and ages, and ages...is that sustainable, hmm?

Also, answer the point about how overpopulation is a third world, not a first world problem. Prove it's an American problem, not a Chinese/African problem.


You say it does not affect the West, but it does between Global Warming and limited resources it does affect all of us.

Great, ANOTHER Malthusian. Global Warming? Did you fall off the tuna boat yesterday? The world hasn't warmed for 15 years. PROVE THE WARMING. IT'S NOT THERE. Computer models are not reality!

If a woman doesn't want to have a child it's simply helping. Yes, one person may seem small but eventually it'll add together and make an impact.

An impact on what? More 'resources' for your greedy self? Prove your contention that there are too many people in America. We pay farmers not to farm! How will we handle the aging population from your ideal of low birth dates?

Also, while the limitation of resources will indeed affect China and other Asian as well as African countries which are far overpopulated now, it will eventually hit the West as well and in fact, the impacts are already with oil.

The US is having the largest energy boom in decades. It's upending the entire energy market.

You have NO CLUE what you are talking about. Peak Oil has been predicted for decades upon decades. It's always been proven wrong by increasing technological breakthroughs.

Oh, and he posts yet another video that compares people to bacteria and assumes that we're just going to multiply geometrically unless we are stopped.

If that were true, explain the declining birthrates of the first world?

OVERPOPULATION IS A THIRD WORLD PHENOMENON.

You say women aren't worth more than for birthing and having children, yet women have been growing smart since gaining their rights and have now even surpassed men in education.

Women have affirmative action processes and other forms of discrimination helping them into college. This is an indisputed fact.

Women have higher IQs? What do you say about the scientific fact that men are far more likely to be super intelligent than women? You omitted that little scientific discovery, and it's not exactly a surprise why you did, because it contradicts your utter nonsense.

Sunny was not whining about you guys being mean, she was simply stating that arguments can be done without your petty name calling such as calling her a "fat cow."

We don't care about your feewings. We can't control for every comment here, and Vox has no desire to.

On a final note... Sunny said she agreed with Vox's view on abortion which involves that she disagrees with it's legal state, so why would some of you assume she agrees with China's forced abortions on women?

Because she uses their policy as a moral authority that overpopulation is a problem. Why does she trust Chicom bureaucrats?

Anonymous Catan June 06, 2013 6:09 PM  

Any woman who does not want to have children is not useless because she adds her work and efforts into our workplace that allows her to earn money to help spawn and grow her local economy, her countries economy, and also our world's economy.

How exactly does that do ONE THING about solving the aging population problem you're bringing onto us by population control? It doesn't.

How does this BS square with your belief that we're 'using too many resources'? Isn't the fact that she's working and growing an economy just using our limited resources faster, genius? Isn't she just contributing to the destruction of our planet by growing our economy and using resources faster?

Total hypocrite.

Oh, and marriage is a religious practice that not every woman and man partake in because not every man or woman is religious or believes in marriage.

Human bonding is a religious practice? I feel sorry for you. Your life is going to end up miserable.

<3 you Sunny! Don't ever change! :)

Worst advice she's ever had. My mother is still an uptight whiny teenager that can't get over her emotions.

She's still single in her early 50s. Don't ever change, Sunny!

Anonymous Sensei June 06, 2013 6:11 PM  

@Mina

"I'd not expect anyone here to find an 18yo girl a worthy debate opponent, especially considering her obvious naiveté. "

Maybe the reason people are treating her as a worthy debate opponent is because the people here are showing her genuine respect as a fully capable and realized human being, who is strong enough and smart enough to take these punches and learn and grow. Instead of regarding her as an infantilized little flower needing coddling.
-Some dude


Well said, though I suspect it might be naive to impute quite such noble motives to the ilk at large. It's an ornery bunch, to be sure, but you can think freely and your ideas stand or fall based on their merit and your ability to communicate them, and that makes it worth it to me.

With regards to Sunny (and AA), many millenials are raised with inclusiveness as a dogma, but don't realize most of the rest of the world's social hierarchies doesn't function in this way at all.

So like Kipling's example of the puppy eating shoe polish, being promptly rebutted and even mocked online for jumping into the deep end while still wearing swimmies is a good preventative measure to guard against worse decisions in real life situations where the consequences may be more dire.

Anonymous Catan June 06, 2013 6:14 PM  

Oh, and women are far more likely to be going to college for worthless social science degrees. Women are vastly outnumbered in degrees that actually make a difference.

But we couldn't expect our resident white knight to point that out on his own, now could we?

Anonymous Catan June 06, 2013 6:15 PM  

Oh, and a report came out recently in the UK showing that their female doctors are far more likely to want flexible/part time schedules early in their career, while the males tend to only go to lower hours at the end of their career, rather than quitting.

40%+ of the female doctors in the UK go onto lower hour work schedules.

Money well spent!

Anonymous the bandit June 06, 2013 6:23 PM  

Relevant slate article on that overpopulation thing.

tl;dr As economic development progresses in a country, its birthrates decline sharply below replacement level. Economic development is occurring worldwide, and we will see peak population and then decline in population in our lifetimes.

Blogger Panzerdude June 06, 2013 6:32 PM  

Vox and his cult members are all idiots. It's simple to see, because none of you hold to the same opinions as I, or my friends do. Isn't it also obvious, that this group's failure to see things my way, regardless of my lack of empirical evidence, should not be allowed. I find the discourse here offensive. I will now engage in any activity I can to make sure everyone here is no longer allowed to rant such drivel.

This makes perfect sense, given that my opinions are obviously correct. I know, because the people (non-cult members) I hang out with all feel the same as I do.

I know my friends and I were told what to think by our teachers and professors (even though they too all hang out together and think alike, they're not cult members either). Because they told me all these "things" are so, I actually never studied the issues I believe, or really given them as much thought as I do when choosing a dress, but still, I feel that I'm qualified to comment on all these things, because I know how I feel about them.

Besides all that, I work hard and am smart. Those are other reasons I know my feelings about all these things is true.

All of you are nothing but a bunch of Vox followers with no original thoughts of your own. And all of his ideas are pure crap. Never mind that I'm not addressing any actual issue and providing proof of why my positions are correct. The fact that I've called all of you cult members should prove the validity of my arguments.

In fact, now that I've called you idiots and cult members several times now, you should really feel ashamed of yourselves. I hope you can't sleep either. There...now I bet you're really feeling bad now!!!

Remember, I can do calculus and pass finals exams. Now you should really feel bad, given that I've just proved how smart I am.

Well, I done now. I can't waste any more of my life berating your for being idiots here. I've got some really important things to do now, like study for a final and get ready for my life in an office cubicle. Oh yeah, before I go, I feel like all of you are idiots and cult members for believing in procreation and families and all that other stuff that hurts the planet.

Don't get me going on the planet. Its morons like this group that has caused global warming. That's why I won't have kids, because the world is going to be destroyed and its by people like this group. So screw you Vox and his cult.

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 6:33 PM  

Well Snowy, if human population dynamics is such a simple middle school exercise some one of your abilities should have no problem answering my earlier question. What is the appropriate level of worldwide human population? While your at it would you do me the favor of a two-fer and also state what the correct average tempature of the earth is?

Anonymous Mudz June 06, 2013 6:43 PM  

Oh indeed, if you would take a look at nature, if let's say there are wolves in a population and the wolves eat bunnies and say that hunters are allowed to come in 2 months a year to kill them to control the population. Well, now suddenly there is a ban on said hunts and the wolf population is no longer controlled. The wolf population expands causing there to be a lack of bunnies to feed the wolves until the wolf population eventually decreases or even dies out. It's simple middle school science.

So in other words, an overpopulation eventually results in depopulation. 'Even' dies out, but not necessarily?

Did middle school science also remind you that we're not carnivorous animal limited by land, sea, and air, or what animals choose our hunting ground as their residence? Or that we are an agricultural society?

Why, one could almost suppose that being rational beings having mastered the art of agriculture, we don't have to depend on food falling out of the sky.

It's true though, I was being facetious, but I amuse myself with it anyway.

To address the issue: Overpopulation is a real problem.

Must be why China has all those ghost cities, and America's got obesity issues. Too many people.

Considering that the birth-rate is on the decline, and the western world has an excess of food to the point where our fast-food joints are collectively dumping out millions of tonnes of food-waste annually in order to maintain profits, what would you say is the greatest indication of an overpopulation threat?

Feel free to indulge in more hypotheticals.

Anonymous Anonymous June 06, 2013 6:49 PM  

@Snowy
It is widely known the world is overpopulated. You say it does not affect the West, but it does between Global Warming and limited resources it does affect all of us. Sunny has said already that she does not agree with China's one child policy so enough.

Widely known? By what metric is population distribution of Earth compared against? Is there another planet of similar size, land mass and ocean size with similar habitable zones that we can compare our use of Earth to? Your claim is outrageous and unsubstantiated.

Global Warming? Are you serious? There is no objective evidence that can conclusively demonstrate sustained planetary warming outside of the interglacial norms, to say nothing of the imagined culpability of mankind in this.

Limited resources? The past 30 years everyone has been crying about "peak oil", except, if you watch what's happening now, new harvesting methods are opening up so much petroleum-based energy resources in the U.S., that the U.S. is about to be come a net EXPORTER of petroleum in the next 5-10 years. Did you even realize that significant portions of the U.S.' habitable land is used to grow crops for fuel additives, rather than food? The short answer is, there's no major crush for resources at the moment, unless you're talking about rare earths for electronics, but even that is an artificial restriction.

You say women aren't worth more than for birthing and having children, yet women have been growing smart since gaining their rights and have now even surpassed men in education.

Women are becoming more advanced than men in Education. They are out doing men and this trend will only continue to rise. Men have had education rights centuries before women in the west, yet in only a few decades women are outscoring men. You can deny it all you want, fight it or don't. It's clearly a proven fact.

Surpassed in population of universities is a far cry from surpassing men in education. Unless you consider those with bachelors in liberal arts degrees the truly enlightened among us. Women always had education rights, there were no explicit denials of females to education codified into law, so your assertion there is meaningless. The same books that were used for instruction at universities were always available to women for self-study, there was no restriction on female education save the male-only colleges that existed. The rest of your comment there is childish trolling.

Any woman who does not want to have children is not useless because she adds her work and efforts into our workplace that allows her to earn money to help spawn and grow her local economy, her countries economy, and also our world's economy. Which is a much appreciated gesture since we're currently in an economic recession.

And in choosing this path the woman is no better than a man, her genes are not passed on, she has not helped society grow and mature by raising a new generation. In effect, she's only used half her capability to contribute to society by not reproducing, possibly less.

Blogger Snowy Charlie June 06, 2013 6:49 PM  

"Well Snowy, if human population dynamics is such a simple middle school exercise some one of your abilities should have no problem answering my earlier question. What is the appropriate level of worldwide human population? While your at it would you do me the favor of a two-fer and also state what the correct average tempature of the earth is?"

When the birth rate=the death rate. Where as now, the birth rate is higher than the death creating a population growth.

A temperature that isn't constantly rising so that it doesn't cause ice caps to melt which can cause ocean levels to rise!

- Snowy Charlie :)

Anonymous Azimus June 06, 2013 6:53 PM  

Honestly Snowy, your refutation to Mudz the Kiwi's argument amounts to supporting evidence that overpopulation is self-correcting, therefore not actually a problem. I'm glad you're bringing your middle school science education heavy artillery to the discussion though.

"i have a middle school science education." Worst use of the appeal to authority fallacy ever.

Anonymous Mudz June 06, 2013 7:01 PM  

I just decided to wiki it, as all good interneters do:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation_in_wild_animals

What I find curious is that it lists not a single example of overpopulation causing extinction.

I'm quite familiar with the practise of controlling populations. And even the destruction introduced species have on an ecology (possums in NZ), but according to wiki this has not resulted in any actual extinctions. The ecology simply shifted around.

I find that curious, so I'd be pleased to note any examples you happen to have where overpopulation has destroyed an animal species.

-

Snowy, that's a foolish criteria. That means that as soon as Adam and Eve had their first child, the world was threatened by overpoulation.

You will always get a birth rate > death rate quite frequently, you will also get death rate > birth rate from time to time, these things fluctuate, because this is real life, not an abstract formula that the earth can be fitted into.

Our population growth would not be a problem unless we were actually exceeding the earth's ability to sustain us, and it would only be a real problem if it was a dead-end as opposed to a pendulum.

A temperature will rise and fall on any given day. Ice caps also melt, and ocean levels also rise, minutely, every day or fortnight. It also goes the other way, with freezing water and falling ocean levels. That criteria also does not work.

Anonymous Despair June 06, 2013 7:01 PM  

"My gentle admonishments once inspired a strong, independent, well-educated woman, in the middle of a debate with me, to run off to Nevada to become a stripper and prostitute." - VD

I don't recall this. Who was it?

Anonymous Sensei June 06, 2013 7:01 PM  

A temperature that isn't constantly rising so that it doesn't cause ice caps to melt which can cause ocean levels to rise! - Snowy Charlie

This demonstrates ignorance of the topic (note, I did not say stupidity, you are merely uninformed) on a level which cannot be surmounted in a blog conversation.

Go study the topic and come back when you understand that ice caps go through alternate melting and freezing cycles, and that a strong solar cycle is insurmountable by man's puny efforts to exhale less.

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 7:06 PM  

Snowy,

Thanks for your illuminating answers. Proper worldwide human population = 2 and the proper temp is one similiar to the last ice age.

Well that pretty much clears that up. Thanks for stopping by.

On a side note, Sunny, you definetly should listen to Snowy. Everyone else here are surely the stupid ones. You go girl.

Anonymous Sunny June 06, 2013 7:10 PM  

@Vox

At least you can admit what you do and say is cruel. Although I'm not sure about you admitting it with such pride.

I don't doubt you have a right to respond to AA, if it is in a way that you think is right. I merely question the methods in which you apply it. If you want to be firm, be firm. Just don't be cruel (although Its clear your award in cruelty might not allow this) and do not let hundreds of people sneer and joke over her. Even if your cruel message was the right way to handle it, which I don't believe, then how is it going to help being repeated multiple times by different people?
I imagine it is possible for you to reply to someone without the showcase of posting everything on your blog but then again maybe not. The attention hog within you might not allow it.

When referring to the consequences, I didn't mean something happening to you. I meant that with your words, and with the way people support this... cyber bullying (because that's what it is) it is highly likely that you damage people mentally. If not in any other way but reducing AA's confidence to dust. What I MEANT was that I hoped one day you would understand this and see how easy it is to hurt people.
I understand you said you didn't care, and while that's true on some level, there is such a thing as human compassion. For all.

With the population issue... You're completely missing my entire point.
We, as a people in general, are not dying out. There is no reason for widespread panic over woman needing to conceive children. Your view that every woman should marry and have children because of this is foolish. I can better understand the reasoning that she might be alone if she does not do so, but even in that case... AA will have parents, friends and perhaps even brothers and sisters. Also just because she might not want to marry or have children does not mean that she cannot be in a happy relationship.
I am in no way condemning the choice of marriage and children, its something I want for myself one day but I don't believe in trying to force others to want the same thing. There are some people who WILL wake up and think that they've made a mistake in how they've chosen to live but not everyone will.
I can't help but wonder what you'd do if you came across someone who physically couldn't have children. Would you be as cruel? Label her a evolutionary dead end and declare her to be fated for loneliness her entire life?

Sunny

Anonymous Jack Amok June 06, 2013 7:12 PM  

Why do you think it is disregard to warn others they are on a self-destructive path that leads to misery?

Because she thinks you should quietly, unobtrusively, make it all better so that AA leads a happy (sorry, haaaaaaaaapy) fulfilling life without ever being informed she did anything wrong. You should clean up all her messes and line up all the right caterers for her, like a Hollywood starlets manager (or the majordomo for a Princess).

And they say Maxxim gives men unrealistic expectations...

Anonymous allyn71 June 06, 2013 7:15 PM  

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. In my wildest dreams I would have never thought that Sunny would have came back, yet there she is still saying a combination of nothing mixed with stupid. Unbelievable.

I look forward to seeing what transpiresthis evening. You kids have fun now, this thread has already cut my production for the day in half, can't play anymore.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 06, 2013 7:22 PM  

We, as a people in general, are not dying out.

That depends Sunny, and who exactly you mean by "we". If you think burquah wearing Saudi's with their 3.35 Total Fertility Rate or various equatorial Africans (6.0+ TFR) are "your people", then, no, I guess you aren't dying out, at least not due to birth rates.

If you consider Europeans (~1.5) or Japanese (1.27) "your people", then you are in fact dying out rather quickly. If you consider Americans (2.02) your people, it's a bit of a tossup.

As Vox said, if you think population is a problem, it's most definitely not a western problem. Unless you just think there are too many Anglo-Saxon types around, in which case please do declare yourself.

Blogger Panzerdude June 06, 2013 7:25 PM  

I agree with Sunny.

Vox and his cult are cruel and his response to AA was too harsh. The reason Sunny and I know this is because our standards for what is too harsh and what is cruel are the correct standards.

I also agree with Sunny that Vox and his cult will hopefully suffer for their beliefs.

Now, I know what you're thinking; that Sunny and I are being harsh and cruel here, even though we both have condemned Vox for being harsh. But we are not being too harsh. The reason I know this is because I don't feel telling all of you cult members to suffer is too harsh. It may be harsh, but its not too harsh, because you deserve it.

Besides that, I would never be too harsh, because, just like Sunny, I know what too harsh is.

I can also tell what these cult members are going to say about Sunny and me. That our feelings are just ours and don't matter. Well, that's another reason you should all suffer some form of pain or punishment. Who are you to tell us that our feelings are wrong!!!

Never mind that we've told you that your feelings are wrong. We know they are wrong.

I've also read enough of these cult responses to know that someone is going to say that pointing to Sunny and my other friends as proof is just an Appeal to Authority. Well, I just asked one of my friends if she's ever heard of that and she hasn't either, so now I've got proof that several people all agree that everyone here is stupid, which proves you are.

Finally, since Sunny and I obviously have the correct views, feelings and opinions about all these matters, everyone here should feel bad. And how dare you tell us we're wrong. You are wrong!

I can't believe that Vox is very intelligent either. If he was as smart as he says, then he would feel the same way Sunny and I do.

I know I'm smarter than Vox anyway. My professor says I'm the smartest student he's ever had in a class. My friends call me a "brain" so obviously, Vox's claim of being more intelligent than me is false.

Go get 'em Sunny. We are right and need to tell all these idiots how wrong they are. Maybe after they've burned in hell for having different opinions than us, they will see their wicked ways and change....before they destroy the planet.

Vox...you and all your cult members are idiots!!!!

Anonymous Sunny June 06, 2013 7:27 PM  

To all the people commenting who still believe I'm going to reply.
I cannot answer every single one of you. My absence was not be ignoring any of you. I assure you, I read every comment and mostly got a good laugh at the stupidity of the majority of the comments.
I did state above that replying to everyone would take far too long (when I have better things to do) and thus, I replied to what seems to be the person who speaks for the majority of you (Vox).
My staying away had nothing to do with being cowed by the comments.

Sunny

Anonymous Mudz June 06, 2013 7:28 PM  

Be gentle, guys. They know not what they say.

We, as a people in general, are not dying out.

Which is because? Reproduction, perhaps.

Blogger Snowy Charlie June 06, 2013 7:33 PM  

"What I find curious is that it lists not a single example of overpopulation causing extinction.

I'm quite familiar with the practise of controlling populations. And even the destruction introduced species have on an ecology (possums in NZ), but according to wiki this has not resulted in any actual extinctions. The ecology simply shifted around.

I find that curious, so I'd be pleased to note any examples you happen to have where overpopulation has destroyed an animal species."

If you noticed I said in a given area... not an entire Species.

Adam and Eve are of a religion that I do not belong to but going from that viewpoint there is a huge difference between a population which is just now forming and a population which has been formed but continues to grow in masses.

Temperatures are rising because of green houses gases which are destroying our Ozone not because of the suns position which does indeed change daily making the temperatures radical rather than constant.

Yes, exceeding Earth's resources! :D That's what will happen if the world's population continues to increase at the rate it is now. This is the point exactly. So happy you're getting closer to understanding. :D

-Snowy Charlie :D <3 you again Sunny btw<3 :')

Anonymous zen0 June 06, 2013 7:36 PM  

I am in profound awe at this point.

I think this might be fodder for a Broadway Musical.

Get my agent on the line, please, Stella.

Stella.....
Stella......

STELLLLAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!


Anonymous Disinterested Observer June 06, 2013 7:37 PM  

I think Sunny wants to have Vox's baby

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 06, 2013 7:37 PM  

Nein, VD was civil and trying to help by providing solutions, reminding her/others of the AWCA factor and VD does not care about FS or female solipsism (feelings). VD isn't bragging or flaunting pride regarding his AWCA tendencies, he is simply, tirelessly telling those who do not know what he is about. No one here or few here care to engage in the henhouse or the hamster wheels when its not going to be productive.

Maybe Sunny will come around in her thinking, who knows?

Population problems? Another boomer brainwashing technique to promote abortion. But don't worry, I'm sure there are plans for such a 'fear'/

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 06, 2013 7:39 PM  

(Oh Brother, the henhouse...)

Sunny, no one expects or cares if you respond to any of us individually, I wish you success, health and happiness.

Blogger BoysMom June 06, 2013 7:40 PM  

Snowy Charlie,
If you want to read about the feedback mechanism between polar ice cap melting and the ensuing ice ages, you'll start with Ewing and Dorn. Find a library with Science issues from the sixties. This is not news.
There are links all over in this thread and the other about the decline in world population. Read them. The current still-continuing increase is not because of birth rates, but because of increased average lifespan.
Also, everyone here with school aged children is so concerned about education that we homeschool. Everyone? I think so, yes. There might be one or two with kids in private school. It's about the one thing we actually agree on.
Sunny reminds me of a young lady who used to comment here, about the same time as Pretty Lady did, can't remember her name. Vox seems to attract them every so often.

Anonymous Mudz June 06, 2013 7:45 PM  


If you noticed I said in a given area... not an entire Species.


Then it provides no support of your case does it? You have no examples of where this has happened even to a rapidly reproducing, unintelligent species restricted by instinct and geographical boundaries. The fact that animals can be killed by predators is hardly earth-shaking news.

Adam and Eve are of a religion that I do not belong to but going from that viewpoint there is a huge difference between a population which is just now forming and a population which has been formed but continues to grow in masses.

Which is?

Temperatures are rising because of green houses gases which are destroying our Ozone not because of the suns position which does indeed change daily making the temperatures radical rather than constant.

Which means what, in your opinion? We should kill all the cows?

The atmosphere and the average temperature also fluctuates over the centuries, you have not shown where the destruction of the earth immediately follows. You're just explaining a way that ozone gets destroyed

I'll also note you never answered his question as to what the ideal temperature is, so how do we act on this principle if we don't know what the goal is?

The ozone is also replenishable, and according to this: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0805_030805_ozone.html, may already be happening.

In any case, I'm not invested in the GW debate, so you may tussle with someone else about it.


Yes, exceeding Earth's resources! :D That's what will happen if the world's population continues to increase at the rate it is now. This is the point exactly. So happy you're getting closer to understanding. :D


You have yet to provide evidence that this is what's happening. I'm sure middle school science also covered the concept of renewable resources.

Because if resources weren't renewable, then we'd be screwed no matter what population we were.

Anonymous Shorty June 06, 2013 7:45 PM  

Sunny, The NAZIs believed in overpopulation and government population controls as well.

WHY DO YOU HATE GAYS AND JEWS?

Anonymous Sensei June 06, 2013 7:49 PM  

Temperatures are rising because of green houses gases which are destroying our Ozone not because of the suns position which does indeed change daily making the temperatures radical rather than constant. -Snowy Charlie

This is simply, provably, scientifically, false.
In fact, it sounds as if you may have no clue what you are talking about. Again, I suggest you go study these things until you can speak knowledgeably about them if you want anyone here to take you seriously.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 06, 2013 7:53 PM  

Panzerdude; cruel and mean to everyone. Really? Nah, just mostly INTJ/ISTJ semi-negative realists responding with a different sense of humor.

Anonymous Cail Corishev June 06, 2013 7:58 PM  

The only thing the Earth has too much of is government. Every time a people goes hungry somewhere, a government has cut off or stolen its food supply, or a government-funded NGO has encouraged farming practices that are unsustainable in that habitat. Famines are caused by war and tyranny, and bureaucratic meddling, not by babies.

By the way, if we hadn't started spending a large chunk of our productivity on government and all the people it encourages to be dependent on it, we could have colonies on Mars and the Moon by now, sending back the materials we're going to need for profitable fusion to replace oil (though it appears we won't need that as soon as we thought). Heck, we could be expanding our population to a new freakin' planet instead of worrying about being crowded and trying to convince women to be barren or kill their babies so food demand won't increase and drive up the price of our arugula a dime.

Anonymous Phil Mann June 06, 2013 7:59 PM  

"I don't recall this. Who was it?"

Kelly from the Rational Response Squad -- after attempting a chapter-by-chapter rebuttal to The Irrational Atheist and not getting past Chapter 3.

True Story.

Blogger Snowy Charlie June 06, 2013 8:03 PM  

@Mudz

I've already explained all that in the previous post of mine that you replied to for me to reply to that one. Was just pointing that out in the second reply to you. If you are going to argue with someone with a reply then argue with said reply they give you, maybe you should remember their original statement. Otherwise it's like arguing with someone about what happened at the beginning of a movie whilst only remembering the ending.

Since you all think Wikipedia is welcomed source maybe you might just remember this from your old science classes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity

Here's one example for you by the way...

http://mingomorvin.com/bui/wildlifearticles/?p=104

"You have yet to provide evidence that this is what's happening. I'm sure middle school science also covered the concept of renewable resources."

Yes indeed, middle school did and so does school after that! Yet, you also must remember not everything is a renewable resource that we, as humans, use in our everyday lives. Not to mention, while yes certain things like fossil fuels and coal are renewable, they are not being renewed at the rate which we, as humans, use them.

@Shorty
I assure you Sunny does not hate Gays or Jews! :D

- Snowy Charlie :D

P.S. Sunny I think rather than calling this a cult, we should name Vox, the Shepherd and his followers, sheep. You know a lot about Sheep afterall. I'm sure you hear their 'baa's outside your window every morning. :P <3 you Sunny :D

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 06, 2013 8:07 PM  

I too revert back to a generational disconnect5 perhaps it has nothing to do with AWCA, personality types or negative/positivity, its all generational.

Anonymous Mina June 06, 2013 8:10 PM  

Shooting Bambi's father is very sporting - have you ever been in close proximity to a buck? It can kill you, quite easily actually, and is a formidable opponent.

My personal standards don't allow me to debate teen girls, because I have two who very much enjoy baiting me into debate but have so little clue about the world and about debating it is just more frustrating than entertaining.

Of course you are correct I have no call to push my standard on you - because where is the line between where young teen girl is responsible for receiving exactly what she's asking for and being given consideration for still being a bit of a child? And isn't that really at the end of the day what underpins a lot of what is discussed here and at Alpha Game?

Sunny: Good luck to you, you are on your own if you attempt to continue to engage the folks here. You will receive exactly what you're asking for even if you are not very sure yet what that is.

Anonymous Cail Corishev June 06, 2013 8:12 PM  

Anyone making claims of overpopulation should be required to answer two questions first:

1. What did all the past prophets of overpopulation doom miss that caused their predictions to fail, and how do you know you aren't missing the same thing?

2. Which people do you think should be killed or forcibly relocated or sterilized, and who will decide?

It's amazing that the people who think colonization was a heinous crime only a bit short of the Holocaust -- so harmful that it's responsible for everything bad that's happened in those countries ever since, even decades later -- tend to be the same people who think we should be over there now, telling them how to live, what to grow, and when to have babies (or not). Do liberals ever learn anything?

Anonymous Cail Corishev June 06, 2013 8:17 PM  

Temperatures are rising because of green houses gases which are destroying our Ozone

Ha! I was just reminiscing the other day about the ozone freak-out and wondering what ever happened to it. Looks like it's still preached in the schoolbooks, although even the crankiest doomsayers never blamed the "ozone hole" on greenhouse gases. Someone needs to stop passing so many notes and pay closer attention in Earth Science class.

Anonymous demon June 06, 2013 8:18 PM  

Overpopulation amongst european societies doesn't exist.

But I do think there are socieities and cultures (perhaps racial groups as well) that have too many people for what their level of civilisation can support. So instead of investing economic surplus it goes into bribing the bands of youth to stop being a nuisance - but that surplus has regularly been extracted by institutions like the IMF. So they are just chaotic dysfunctional messes.
Their culture and civilisation is not good enough to sustain a large population, society and civilisation. But ours can do so with ease (provided the rentiers privileges are rolled back and finanial system is taxed so that the real productive economy can flourish).

Anonymous Khyron June 06, 2013 8:23 PM  

I chuckled at the reference to Ms. Kelly from the RRS. We shouldn't be surprised that the MPAI crowd actually thinks that kindness is cruelty, and criticism is hatred.

Anonymous Mudz June 06, 2013 8:30 PM  

I've already explained all that in the previous post of mine that you replied to for me to reply to that one. Was just pointing that out in the second reply to you. If you are going to argue with someone with a reply then argue with said reply they give you, maybe you should remember their original statement. Otherwise it's like arguing with someone about what happened at the beginning of a movie whilst only remembering the ending.

Boy, that was confusing.

You did not ever answer the question. You did not say what your ideal temperature for the earth was, you basically only said 'one that doesn't increase' which was not an appropriate answer, and was silly in itself.

Since you all think Wikipedia is welcomed source maybe you might just remember this from your old science classes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity


Why do people keep thinking I'm a mass-entity of some sort? Do I do fat in this format?

And that's very cute, but why did you post that for? Did you think that the debate was about the definition of terms? We're not debating the state of the dictionary. I asked you for evidence that overpopulation is a threat. You haven't even given an example where it's a problem for animals.

http://mingomorvin.com/bui/wildlifearticles/?p=104

This is an example of what we had already established. No species went extinct as a result.

Now you can argue that this is due to population control, but there are two key issues here:

1) You have no real-life examples of a species overpopulating themselves into extinction.

2) You have not shown any relevance to the human species even if it is so. After all, a lot of animals get killed because they don't understand that the moon doesn't travel on highways.

Yes indeed, middle school did and so does school after that! Yet, you also must remember not everything is a renewable resource that we, as humans, use in our everyday lives. Not to mention, while yes certain things like fossil fuels and coal are renewable, they are not being renewed at the rate which we, as humans, use them.

You should also remember your alphabet, and to look both ways before crossing a street. However, it is not relevant to the argument.

We will not go extinct if we run out of coal. We will not go extinct if we don't all have personal jets and 40 million dollar homes.

If we suffer a shortage of toothbrushes, do we need to start culling off the human herd? If there's a shortage of bananas in a given year, do we compensate by reducing the amount of banana-loving people in the world?

You're supposed to provide some evidence that we are threatened by our own fertility. We are not. There is no evidence of any such threat. We have an excess of food and wealth, and we are, according to our health experts, living longer than ever.

You're positing a hypothetical scenario that you have not supported with evidence.

Anonymous DonReynolds June 06, 2013 8:31 PM  

So-called "strong independent intelligent" women never cease to annoy me with their self-reassuring device, which consists of asking a number of questions about what I (or any other man) think or feel or perceive about an issue or subject, THEN VIGOROUSLY ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT WHAT I THINK.

No Dear, there is no one else in the world who knows more about what I think and why I hold the positions that I do, other than myself. One can disagree with me. Many seem to. But no one is an expert on what I think, other than myself.

In short, DO NOT ASK QUESTIONS IF YOU REALLY DO NOT WANT AN ANSWER and most especially, do not attempt to change that answer by insisting that I believe something else. I am perfectly happy for you to think and believe the way you do, even if I do not agree, so why not extend me the same courtesy?

What women keep saying is "cruel" is a good healthy dose of American mind-your-own-business. It is not necessary for us to agree and I will never ask you what you think or believe.....and YES, I am sure it does not matter much. My indifference to your future and welfare and understanding is not cruelty on my part. I am not trying to convince you of anything and I will not try to cause you to do anything. Do as you like. So will I. And no, you cannot follow me where I go. (It is like dealing with stray pets, sometimes.)

Anonymous Mudz June 06, 2013 8:32 PM  

*look

Bugger.

Anonymous Mina June 06, 2013 8:33 PM  

... meanwhile in the couple of hours I have been gone, my "cowgirl up" 17yo teen riding friend found a deer with a broken leg while were out on a trail ride, we had it shot and she dragged it with her horse out of the forest preserve to her boyfriends pick-up. They loaded it up, took it to his house where they have gutted and dressed it. I have been invited for venison steaks tomorrow night for dinner.

I don't worry as much about the country girls.

Anonymous Khyron June 06, 2013 8:41 PM  

Is the strong, independent, well-educated woman, that ran off to Nevada to become a stripper and prostitute up to? Oh - here's her twitter account She says she is a "Nocturnal Activities Coordinator"

Anonymous hardscrabble farmer June 06, 2013 8:42 PM  

Sunny says-

"...cyber bullying (because that's what it is) it is highly likely that you damage people mentally."

WTF?

Really?

Anonymous Mudz June 06, 2013 8:42 PM  

@ Snowy

In fact reading that article closer refutes your example, since they introduced wolves specifically to counter the population explosion of elk, and they still increased.

And let me quote this in full:

One large, actually huge set of statistics jumped out at me. Between 1930 and 1994 there were substantial variations in populations, from 22,000 to a low of 3172 in 1967. During this period there were no wolves in YNP or anyplace near Yellowstone. Wonder what this means? How about this, there is a large fluctuation in the elk population and wolves have nothing to do with this variation. Why?

The major factors that affect elk populations are reproductive rates, winter weather conditions, drought, hunting pressure and success, predator depredation on the herd, depredation on calves and disease.

Reproductive rates are a variable influenced by each year’s food cycle. If there is an abundance of food there will generally be a higher rate of reproduction, less food, generally will show a smaller reproduction rate. These again are broad generalities but this has shown to be true through research and anecdotal observations. Many wildlife managers use this as one of the determining factors in setting hunting quotas and or projecting wildlife populations in the coming years. An example of this would be estimating the lose of white pine nuts due to infestation of bark beetles and how this will affect brown bear populations and general health. In a complete collapse of a food source, such as pine nuts, there is some evidence that female bears will absorb a pregnancy. Food availability is probably the number one determinate of elk and other wildlife populations.


I'll take that point, sir. I don't believe you read this article very carefully.

Anonymous Mudz June 06, 2013 8:44 PM  

I should have mentioned I am familiar with population control, because around here it's used to make sure that the deer populates enough for a hunting season, or people trying to make a buck off possum skins.

Anonymous Mudz June 06, 2013 8:46 PM  

If there is a larger population more wolves will be around, smaller elk numbers and we see a kill off of wolves. At this point elk populations drive the predator numbers, at least on the wolf side of the equation. I think this is a major success with introduction, the real natural balance being reasserted.

Blogger Doom June 06, 2013 8:51 PM  

Hey, Sunny, he also writes here, if your offense meter isn't quite tapped, or you want to re-tap it. As for blathering on, to all of us? Don't bother. Blathering to Vox is enough for my tastes... Too much really.

And, yeah, I still don't know why he is being so nice to you two snotty twits. He isn't anywhere so nice to us, and vice versa at times. If you need it soft, marry up. If you think you got it, put your stick in the fire until you cry your way through it or shut up. Whining isn't welcome. You will get zero sympathy here. I save that for people who are hurting for no reason they created. You aren't among them. Sweety. P-ShaW

Do you have a cute butt? You weren't good to see coming, I just like to hope you'll be good to see going. *smooch*

Anonymous Stilicho June 06, 2013 8:54 PM  

It is widely known the world is overpopulated

It is known, Khaleesi. MPAI and there are far too many of them, but the first part is a fact while the second is just an aesthetic judgment on my part.

Vox's comment to AA where he mentioned women are only useful for marriage and having children

Well, you can typing, but reading comprehension seems a bit beyond you. Would you like to buy a clue? Here's a freebie: look up the concept of relative importance. When you have that down, we'll work on context.

Anonymous DonReynolds June 06, 2013 8:57 PM  

Sunny..."Just about everyone here disgusts me. Vox, and just about all the people commenting, with the exception of a few. I happened to stumble on this blog yesterday and I have to say its one of the worst things I have ever discovered."

Tisk. Tisk. Sunny, I hate to see you suffer so badly. Just pretend it is the day before yesterday, you did not know this blog existed, and your troubles and disappointments will vanish.

This is still a free society, no thanks to certain people, who wish deliberate "suffering" on anyone and everyone here. In a free socity, there WILL be things that do not conform to your notions of normal or expected behaviors and viewpoints. Some may even be the opposite of what you believe, Sunny. But that is what you get in a free society. Might I suggest a couple of places where you might be happier to know that divergent viewpoints are simply not tolerated....like North Korea, or Saudi Arabia. Just imagine. Paradise is just a short ride on a jumbo jet away. (Don't forget to take your passport. You will need it.)

Anonymous 411 June 06, 2013 8:58 PM  

"The world is over populated. For proof of this, please go check up on China's policy on bearing children."

That's just proof that China thinks it has too many people. It's not even proof that China is over populated.

Blogger Snowy Charlie June 06, 2013 9:00 PM  

@ Doom

Yes I do have a cute butt! *smooches back* <3 you baby! ;)

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