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Friday, June 14, 2013

PZ Myers, professional "biologist"

Now, before you read this, keep in mind that PZ Myers is actually employed to teach college students biology:
Keep in mind that Jemisin is black. Here’s Theodore Beale coming right out and saying that while she’s human, she’s not fully equal to a white man, himself (and please, his invocation of “genetic science” is reeking bullshit).
The amusing thing is that Myers not only didn't understand what it meant when I pointed out that NK Jemisin and I are not equally homo sapiens sapiens, he also doesn't have a clue about current genetic science.  In fact, most of the people who have taken offense at the statement that "genetic science presently suggests that we are not equally homo sapiens sapiens" have done nothing more than demonstrate they have not kept up with relatively recent developments in genetics by interpreting my words in a manner that is not only ignorant, but precisely backward.

You see, Africans are pure homo sapiens sapiens.  Non-Africans are not. NK Jemisin, being of African extraction, is almost surely more purely homo sapiens sapiens than I am.  Or, for that matter, than PZ Myers is. 

"Previous research has revealed that Neanderthal DNA can be found in the genomes of everyone who isn't of African extraction. But, as Pääbo said, "The Denisovans had contributed DNA only to people in Papua New Guinea, Fiji, Australia, and other places in Melanesia." In other words, modern humans entering Asia interbred with Denisovans. But the Denisovan DNA didn't wind up circulating to other areas of the world the way Neanderthal DNA did."

So, everyone who isn't African possesses DNA from other homo species, including Homo neanderthalensis and what is either Homo denisova or Homo sapiens denisova.  This is why I often mock those who believe in both evolution by natural selection and human equality, because humanity is not only NOT all the same under our skin, we are not, according to current genetic science, even all entirely the same subspecies.  If we apply their idiot logic, then I was actually claiming that I am not fully equal to Jemisin rather than the other way around.

That's not the only thing that the excitable and characteristically buffoonish Myers gets wrong.  I'm not annoyed at being called a racist, I'm not demanding any apologies for it, and I'm certainly not threatening any lawsuits over it.  For crying out loud, John Scalzi has been calling me a Racist Sexist Homophobic Dipshit for months and it doesn't bother me in the slightest since I am none of those things.  I demanded an apology because NK Jemisin broke SFWA confidentiality rules by misreading part of my presidential campaign platform, then claimed that I am a "self-described misogynist, racist, anti-Semite, and a few other flavors of asshole."  However, I have never described myself as any of those four things.

I assume Myers would similarly object if Ms. Jemisin claimed PZ Myers is a self-described Catholic pedophile who teaches puppetry to kindergarteners.

Myers is also wrong about my having modified my original post in any way.  The incompetent philosopher is confusing a later post for the original one because he didn't scroll down the page.  It's still there in its entirety.  Everything it contains is factually true, utterly defensible, and I will note that not a single person who is throwing hissy fits about it has dared to take up my offer to debate them on any of its contents.  The abysmal scientific ignorance of a collegiate biology teacher concerning the subject may offer an indication of why those who are even less cognizant of the relevant genetic science and its implications are nervous about doing so.

It appears Myers also failed to read Jemisin's speech.  She is the one who asserted that the "racist stand-your-ground laws" were passed against people like her.  I merely pointed out WHY those laws were passed; because people were being violently attacked by the aforementioned people and needed a legal right to self defense.

Myers doesn't even attempt to address any of the factual statements I made or try to challenge their accuracy, he merely points-and-shrieks.  No wonder he has twice run away from debates with me; he's not capable of rational dialectic.  As for not being embarrassed, why would I ever be embarrassed by being aware of history, capable of logic, and reasonably up-to-date on genetic science?  If the hysterical left is really going to abandon history, logic, and science in favor of its precious equality myths, it's simply not going to be possible for anyone with a functioning brain to take it seriously much longer.

Forget the SFWA kerfluffle.  The real scandal is that a science illiterate like PZ Myers is employed to teach science to college students.

Labels: ,

182 Comments:

Anonymous Stilicho June 14, 2013 4:40 PM  

And this little rabbit cried "squee, squee, squeeeeee!" all the way home. Again.

OpenID kaiheitai June 14, 2013 4:42 PM  

You can't actually expect PZ Meyers to violate the scientifically-proven statute that all human beings were created equally by evolution. What are you, a Nazi?

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben June 14, 2013 4:43 PM  

It's the same playbook over and over. You're not going to convince these people of anything.

There is nothing to discuss, except for parting ways.

Anonymous swiftfoxmark2 June 14, 2013 4:44 PM  

It is utterly amazing how stupid most university professors really are. PZ Myers continues to prove he is unfit to be a biology professor, but will probably continue to do so because of his tenure.

I remember so many Computer Science professors who taught in outdated languages that no in the real world cared about. Hell, the only reason I landed my first job after college was due to my experience with the .NET Framework that was outside of my coursework.

We really should end all tenure. When they have to work based on merit, like the real world, you'll see a better version of higher education.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter June 14, 2013 4:45 PM  

He seems unaware that differing environments will select for different human behavior genes.

Anonymous Mike M. June 14, 2013 4:45 PM  

Interesting point about the genome-mixing.

The question may also be the effects of evolutionary pressures on groups during the human diaspora. As I understand it, the current thinking is that H sap. sap. came out of Africa, them migrated along the southern edge of Asia. Taking on Neanderthal blood en route. On hitting the China coast, one group turned south into Melanesia, interbreeding with Denisovians. The other group went north and split into American Indians, and a second group that made their way West - but north of the Himalayas.

That latter group made their way into Europe, but it was a LONG trek.

The great irony to all this is that there IS a defensible coonterargument to Vox's position. It's the theory held by Thomsa Sowell, et. al. - that culture is an undervalued factor. The West valued learning...and had internal competition that forced development. The Far East lacked that internal competition much of the time. Africa? No trade. There are NO rivers of consequence other than the Nile...and no seaports. Note that all the advanced cultures had maritime traffic.

Blogger Jordan179 June 14, 2013 4:46 PM  

It appears Myers also failed to read Jemisin's speech. She is the one who asserted that the "racist stand-your-ground laws" were passed against people like her. I merely pointed out WHY those laws were passed; because people were being violently attacked by the aforementioned people and needed a legal right to self defense.

The stand-your-ground laws aren't actually "racist" -- it says nothing about the races of the attacker or the person defending himself. The laws were passed to legally protect people acting in self-defense. They apply regardless of the races of the people involved.

Anonymous The Voice Of Reason; White Knight of the Fairer (and fairer!) Sex, local 839 June 14, 2013 4:51 PM  

Wait, wait... wait. Who is this PZ Myers? I mean, his points are well and true, and he's allowing women the freedom to choice to declare patricide in their respected professions and all, which is noble. But... Why is he doing my job?

And no mention of white-hot throttling, 10%ers, or cisgendereg environmental engineering from what I can tell. And he claims to be a community college professor? Something's not right. Will have to look into whether he has a proper WKU card or not.

Anonymous Andy June 14, 2013 4:53 PM  

The thing you have to understand about Myers, and I'm sure that you do is that he may be male, but he is not a man. He's a second rate wannabe who knows deep down what a failure he is, he just does not want anyone else to know, hence the website, the shouting and attention seeking. He is a bitch. A prime example of fat rabbit mediocrity.

He also does not realize the difference between savages like her and her savagry "shooting people, like her, who are savages" with " white people like him from savages like her".
Truely a mind equipped to teach.

Anonymous paradox June 14, 2013 4:53 PM  

Dang! You can see the Neanderthal DNA in this species.

Blogger Jordan179 June 14, 2013 4:53 PM  

The great irony to all this is that there IS a defensible coonterargument to Vox's position. It's the theory held by Thomsa Sowell, et. al. - that culture is an undervalued factor. The West valued learning...and had internal competition that forced development. The Far East lacked that internal competition much of the time. Africa? No trade. There are NO rivers of consequence other than the Nile...and no seaports. Note that all the advanced cultures had maritime traffic.

This is in point of fact what I believe. Africa's main disadvantages were the lack of natural ports and navigable rivers other than the Nile (and note that the parts which did develop or host civilizations first were Egypt and North Africa, served respectively by the Nile and Mediterranean). Asia's curse turned out to be the longevity and dominance of China (note that the most technologically-progressive Asian countries, Japan and Korea, were among those free of direct Chinese rule). Europe's blessing was the huge silver lining in the fall of the Western Roman Empire, that it resulted in international technological competition.

As for other cases, Islam was the curse of the Mideast and eventually Egypt, North Africa, and India, which before the Muslim conquests did have a history of relatively rapid advance. The Americas were handicapped by a dearth of domesticatible animals (the Amerindians did do well with plants, though, developing in particular maize and the potato). Australia was just too small and isolated for cultural cross-fertilization, and the Aboriginies there never even made it out of the Paleolithic.

For the technological progress of Antarctica, watch the two Happy Feet movies ;-)

Anonymous Van June 14, 2013 4:56 PM  

Vox-

You may be the Baskin Robbins of assholes, but racist, misogynistic, and anti-Semitic are not among your flavors.

Anonymous Anonymous June 14, 2013 4:56 PM  

Comment 28 from NEWFIE on PZ's site is my favorite: "I wonder what some of these racist twits will think when they learn that the only “pure” homo sapiens are from Sub-Saharan Africa."

LOL

~E

Anonymous Salt June 14, 2013 4:57 PM  

I can hear Myers squee-ing right now.


Anonymous Nurture or Nature? June 14, 2013 4:59 PM  

So because Africa lacked the ports and rivers to foster the cultures that valued learning and forced competition/development, descendants of those Africans who have lived all their life in the US, and whose parents lived all their life in the US, have a lower average IQ because...they don't live next to any seaports?

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter June 14, 2013 5:00 PM  

I have heard mention that Sub-Saharan Homo sapiens also got down and dirty with other groups that were also there.

It may be that they are not so pure themselves.

Anonymous O'Reilly June 14, 2013 5:02 PM  

Perhaps it's a sign of progress that those who openly declare the superiority of the white feel the need to object being called racist.

Yes, Mr. Beale -- forgive me if I don't use your blasphemous pen name -- Ms. Jemison committed the mortal sign of not reading your screeds carefully. It's true you're not a "self described racist," you're merely a racist, albeit one who for some reason objects to the label. And by your own account you're not a misogynist, as you don't hate women, only those who don't limit themselves to the place you have allotted them. By the same token I'm sure you don't hate gays either.

Yes, yes, you don't hate anyone at all. You're a Sigma; you really don't care at all. You spend a good proportion of your posts declaring how smart you are, and how successful you are, and all that rest, but no, you are utterly indifferent to what the world thinks of you.

I could be wrong, of course. You might just be the tedious sort who likes nothing more than talking about himself. (I admit the long club soccer anecdotes probably point in this direction.) Regardless, I lose respect for anyone who can't let his words stand on their own and must constantly reference his own qualifications, however tangentially related they might me. (And no, that's not a reference to posting a picture of your wife. That's a fair enough response when someone implies you've never talked to a woman before.)

You've created your own Christ in your own image. I hope someday you see the light of the real thing on your own road to Damascus.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 5:03 PM  

Why is Vox an asshole? He cares more about people than the leftists that vomit all over him.

He cares so much that he tries very, very hard to be correct and accurate. He reads and studies far more than these clownshoes do.

I'm sure he devotes much more time to thinking things through than these dunces, as well.

Why is he an asshole? Because he thinks harsh reason and truth is better medicine than coddling someone's feelings?

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 5:05 PM  

descendants of those Africans who have lived all their life in the US, and whose parents lived all their life in the US, have a lower average IQ because...they don't live next to any seaports?

No, because they have been fooled into being herded into vast Section 8 projects and living on subsidized income, thereby robbing them of a full life full of experience, work, and learning.

As usual, the left is responsible for the mess they then accuse others of being racists for noticing.

Anonymous Revan June 14, 2013 5:05 PM  

@O'Reilly

Are you going to actually address VD's arguments at some point, or are you content with hysterical ranting?

Blogger James Dixon June 14, 2013 5:08 PM  

> We really should end all tenure. When they have to work based on merit, like the real world, you'll see a better version of higher education.

The only way their work would ever be based on merit would be to allow the students to sue both the schools and the individual teaches when their degrees turned out to be worthless.

> The stand-your-ground laws aren't actually "racist" -- it says nothing about the races of the attacker or the person defending himself.

You try explaining that to Jemisin. I'm sure the results would be entertaining.

Anonymous Porky June 14, 2013 5:08 PM  

The hilarious thing is Myers teaches Bio1111 - Fundamentals of Genetics.

The not-hilarious thing is that he gets tax dollars to do it.

Blogger Brad Andrews June 14, 2013 5:09 PM  

I don't think community college "professors" get tenure.

It is amazing how little the bar is in the comments for reading comprehension. We all agree over here? Not last time I checked.

Anonymous Anonymous June 14, 2013 5:11 PM  

PZ posts the following retelling of your comments with this quote:

"Jemisin has it wrong; it is not that I, and others, do view her as human, (although genetic science presently suggests that we are not equally homo sapiens sapiens)"

Whoever transcribed that passages seems to have take the 13th word, NOT, out of the text.

~E

Anonymous Van June 14, 2013 5:11 PM  

Rabbit Hunter-

I haven't been able to find it for a few years, but yes, subSaharan Africans also have admixture from non-Homo sapiens (a higher percentage, in fact). Any time I look now, all I find is page after page of stories about Europeans not being fully human. The sSA discovery was first, and recieved very little attention for some reason...

Regardless, Vox's point holds up. Various population groups are not equally Homo sapiens (or at least sapiens sapiens).

Anonymous kh123 June 14, 2013 5:12 PM  

If I remember correctly, O'Reilly and variant handles were used by a troll some years ago.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 5:12 PM  

Hey O'Reilly, have you berated Jemisin yet for her obvious racism? She's claiming that the Stand your Ground law is racist despite:

A) The law contains no mention of race

B) Blacks have benefited from this law too.

So, are you over there yelling at her for her racist, insensitive rants that clearly hate white people? Or are you just mad at Vox, hypocrite?

And by your own account you're not a misogynist, as you don't hate women, only those who don't limit themselves to the place you have allotted them.

From what I have read of Vox, the only point he makes is that without a sufficient number of women perpetuating the culture, the culture dies. He also makes the point that children are a much more important imprint on the world than some cubicle career.

Please quote Vox insinuating he hates women who do not 'limit theirselves to the place he has allotted them'.

Regardless, I lose respect for anyone who can't let his words stand on their own and must constantly reference his own qualifications, however tangentially related they might me.

Vox probably does that as a counter-tactic to the left using it. Do you get mad when people make progressive arguments like climate change, and cite qualifications and consensus to boost their perceived value?

Or do you just get mad when people you don't like use it as a counter-tactic?

Anonymous The Next to Last Samurai June 14, 2013 5:13 PM  

Shorter Myers: Vox, you ignorant slut.

Blogger Scott June 14, 2013 5:13 PM  

It's the same playbook over and over. You're not going to convince these people of anything.

There is nothing to discuss, except for parting ways.


Fer sure. BUT, Vox is not so much attempting to convert any particular cell of the hive mind as much as upset the termite colony on the whole, which provides prime-grade entertainment. Watching them wiggle unison is priceless.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter June 14, 2013 5:17 PM  

"Regardless, Vox's point holds up. Various population groups are not equally Homo sapiens (or at least sapiens sapiens)."

Sure. I was simply pointing out that even the Sub-Saharan Africans are not 'pure'.

As with many things, the rabbits are woefully ignorant.

Anonymous Van June 14, 2013 5:19 PM  

Vox, Dixon-

You're forgetting that racism is now defined by disparate impact. Most violent criminals are black, therefore self-defense against violent criminals has a disparate impact on blacks, therefore self-defense (and any law legitimizing it) is racist.

Anonymous VD June 14, 2013 5:20 PM  

It's the same playbook over and over. You're not going to convince these people of anything.

No, but I will convince many of the people reading both sides that I am after the truth and the other side is out to obscure it. There is a reason why my blog readership has gone from 450k monthly pageviews to 1.2 million in two years. People are increasingly sick of the lies. They are weary of being told that what they can readily observe for themselves is somehow mistaken or even evil. They want the truth.

And I pursue it to the best of my abilities. That is very upsetting to those who seek to obscure it, for various reasons.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 5:26 PM  

A couple idiots on thePZ blog are also bringing up the fact that blacks are more homo sapiens sapiens, and chuckling it up at how stupid you are for OBVIOUSLY thinking the opposite.

They just assumed from the beginning that you meant the racist interpretation.

They have their conclusion (their enemies are racists) and they interpret what they see to fit what they believe.

Like all good scientific minds do.

Anonymous Van June 14, 2013 5:27 PM  

Rabbit Hunter-

Didn't think you were debating the point, just wanted to make sure it didn't appear I was. You were clear, which probably meant my explanation was unnecessary.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 5:27 PM  

You're forgetting that racism is now defined by disparate impact. Most violent criminals are black, therefore self-defense against violent criminals has a disparate impact on blacks, therefore self-defense (and any law legitimizing it) is racist.

Then it is vital to do exactly what Vox is doing, because most people don't realize that this is what racism is now defined by.

The more this is debated in the open, the more the left will bleed support.

Blogger Scott June 14, 2013 5:31 PM  

No, but I will convince many of the people reading both sides that I am after the truth and the other side is out to obscure it.

Honestly? My educated guess is the vast majority of people reading your blog don't read the other side... well, unless you're counting MSM outlets. And the majority of the comparatively small set of people who do read the other side most likely subscribe to that side's religion, and as you've just acknowledged, there's no convincing them of anything outside the scope of their religion.

Blogger James Dixon June 14, 2013 5:32 PM  

> Vox probably does that as a counter-tactic to the left using it.

No. Vox does that because these people routinely call him stupid, idiotic, a failure, a loser, et.al. None of which are the case.

Blogger Eric Wilson June 14, 2013 5:33 PM  

. Griggs v. Duke was a terrible decision. The Supremes went 0-8-1 on that one.

Anonymous Van June 14, 2013 5:33 PM  

Catan-

Most people who don't frequent alt-right (or whatever) blogs are shocked to learn the disparate impact definition of racism, and that nearly every single instance in the last 20+ years of the Justice Department finding "racism" in a company's, police/fire department's, etc's hiring/promotion practices is based on disparate impact.

Blogger James Dixon June 14, 2013 5:34 PM  

> You're forgetting that racism is now defined by disparate impact.

Has been defined as such in some courtrooms? Yes. Is defined? Only if we give up the definition.

Blogger James Dixon June 14, 2013 5:37 PM  

> My educated guess is the vast majority of people reading your blog don't read the other side...

Most of use grew up reading and in many cases being force fed the other side.

...well, unless you're counting MSM outlets.

You have to if you want a legitimate count.

Anonymous Kücük June 14, 2013 5:37 PM  

As a non-white, non-american, with english as a foreign language, long time reader of this blog I knew exactly what you meant.
I find it funny how the people at the PZ blog, who know that blacks are purer homo sapiens sapiens than whites, are interpreting this.

Sorry for bad english.

Anonymous Gecko June 14, 2013 5:39 PM  

I will convince many of the people reading both sides that I am after the truth and the other side is out to obscure it. There is a reason why my blog readership has gone from 450k monthly pageviews to 1.2 million in two years. People are increasingly sick of the lies. They are weary of being told that what they can readily observe for themselves is somehow mistaken or even evil. They want the truth.

That's exactly why I started reading. I now have kids to raise; it's time to stop acting like a child, grow up, and take life seriously. Thank you, Vox.

Also: "hate." I do not think it means what O'Reilly thinks it means.

Blogger Bob Wallace June 14, 2013 5:40 PM  

There is also the sub-species Geekus Neanderthalis, who went into software and now smirk at their inferiors from on high.

Anonymous Noah B. June 14, 2013 5:41 PM  

@Van

But according to the DOJ, disparate negative impact on white or asian males is fine, right?

Anonymous Daniel June 14, 2013 5:41 PM  

You forgot crazy, James Dixon. Never forget crazy. That's the last one they go to when they face the evidence that he is smarter, more successful and higher ranking than they are.

Anonymous O'Reilly June 14, 2013 5:42 PM  

@Revan

Do you actually think I sound hysterical, or are you just posturing?

@Catan

I don't really feel like defending other people's assertions, particularly ones I don't agree. The law isn't racist on its face; like any law it can be racist in its application. That said, you'll have to explain to me how incorrectly arguing a law is in some racist makes one racist and not simply mistaken about how a law is truly applied

As for Beale hating women who don't hew to their place as he sees it, I'm going off of his language and his rhetoric, on feminism in particular and women more generally. He's free to say I'm reading interpreting his words incorrectly, and not being able to peer inside his head, I can't very well rebut him. But I'm free to disbelieve him, and I very much do.

As for credentials, if you can't see the difference between Beale trumpeting his general intelligence and the world at large mentioning that most experts in a given field have come to the same conclusion, well, there's limits to what I can do to help you.

Anonymous Scintan June 14, 2013 5:44 PM  

As a non-white, non-american, with english as a foreign language, long time reader of this blog I knew exactly what you meant.
I find it funny how the people at the PZ blog, who know that blacks are purer homo sapiens sapiens than whites, are interpreting this.

Sorry for bad english.


You make an interesting observation, and it's one that I think is generally ignored. The big problem in the U.S. really isn't political differences. The problem is entrenched perspective (pretty much Vox's notion of rhetoric v. dialectic). Disagreement on any issue can be resolved, but only if the sides are willing to accept that they might, possibly, not be 100% right about the issue. Since most Americans form an opinion and then look for buttressing facts rather than looking at the facts and then forming an aligned opinion, right and wrong are largely meaningless. Sadly, this isn't limited to politics and the internet, either. This sort of approach has permeated all throughout our society and is now everpresent in our daily lives. The only chance, short of revolution, that this country has of getting its act together is if people once again start to think before coming to immovable conclusions.

I'm not optimistic.

Anonymous Stilicho June 14, 2013 5:46 PM  

I can't very well rebut him

You have made that abundantly clear.

Anonymous Scintan June 14, 2013 5:47 PM  

As for Beale hating women who don't hew to their place as he sees it, I'm going off of his language and his rhetoric, on feminism in particular and women more generally. He's free to say I'm reading interpreting his words incorrectly, and not being able to peer inside his head, I can't very well rebut him. But I'm free to disbelieve him, and I very much do.

No, what you're doing is making judgmental comments without having the necessary evidence to back them up. Stop trying to massage the language and just admit what you're doing. It's the first step in realizing that:

A.) You're probably an asshole

and

B.) You're probably wrong a whole lot more often than you currently believe.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 5:49 PM  

I don't really feel like defending other people's assertions, particularly ones I don't agree. The law isn't racist on its face; like any law it can be racist in its application.

The left has not produced one shred of evidence showing that the application of the law in the Martin case is racist.

Since you have admitted this is your reasoning, you should now show us your evidence that the law has been used in a racist fashion in this case.

As for Beale hating women who don't hew to their place as he sees it, I'm going off of his language and his rhetoric, on feminism in particular and women more generally.

In other words, you're pulling it directly out of your anus. Aren't you taught in college how bias clouds your individual judgment?

on feminism in particular

Feminism is disgusting. Hating it by no means makes you anti-woman. It makes you anti-clownshoes.

and women more generally.

And you don't have a single piece of evidence supporting you, nor will you show any.

Thus: from your anus.

But I'm free to disbelieve him, and I very much do.

Ah yes, the 'All opinions are equal' mating call of the liberal. No matter what, your opinion matters just as much as Vox's, so there! Nyah nyah, equality means I'm important no matter what!

Which is exactly why your religion is equality. It makes you important no matter what.

As for credentials, if you can't see the difference between Beale trumpeting his general intelligence and the world at large mentioning that most experts in a given field have come to the same conclusion, well, there's limits to what I can do to help you.

That argument has been shown as bunk, they inflated the statistics by counting anyone who even made a revision to the IPCC report, and such.

Facts matter more than computer models and 'consensus'.

FACT: ALL of the computer models got the last 15 years wrong. Horribly so.

FACT: ALL of the computer models were wrong in ONE direction. Too high.

Intelligent people look at FACTS and think for themselves.

Idiots look at herds and decide which herd to join.

Which do you do?

Anonymous Razoraid June 14, 2013 5:55 PM  

Vox, you surpass yourself in eloquence. Thank you very much indeed.

Anonymous DaveD June 14, 2013 5:58 PM  

I thought I smelled atheist bait around here.

Oh, look. Here they come running now.

DD

Anonymous Anonagain June 14, 2013 6:04 PM  

Vox, don't let these vicious, hysterical idiots and their wagging tongues get to you. You know you're doing something right, when the aiders and abettors of this evil world rail against you,

The O'Reilly's and Jamscos - the bootlickers and parroters of the ideology responsible for slaughtering millions, look down on you from their secure, Leftist-approved perch and denounce you. They join in the Leftist hive's attack against you - their pusillanimous imagination can only conceive that you are similarly motivated by the world's opinion of you, and will thus be cowed into submission. These blithering, supercilious morons really haven't a clue that they are the target.

If the Leftists keeps this up, they are going to make a hero of you. Go Vox!

Anonymous VD June 14, 2013 6:07 PM  

But I'm free to disbelieve him, and I very much do.

As you like. I suspect you are incapable of distinguishing the personal from the political. People who get themselves entwined in theories of "hate" and so forth usually can't separate them. And I'm almost entirely unconcerned about what those sort of people "think", to the extent one can even describe it as thinking.

Anonymous realmatt June 14, 2013 6:19 PM  

Who would win in a fight? PZ or Al Franken?

Anonymous Amir Larijani June 14, 2013 6:24 PM  

Oh come now, Vox. P.Z. is a credentialed scientist. The scandal is that idiots like him are awarded PhDs.

Anonymous Stickwick June 14, 2013 6:26 PM  

forgive me if I don't use your blasphemous pen name

This must be an endless source of amusement for Vox. People who probably consider themselves educated and intelligent don't bother to follow the Latin to the Greek.

Anonymous Anonagain June 14, 2013 6:35 PM  

The real scandal is that a science illiterate like PZ Myers is employed to teach science to college students.

Hardly a scandal in Leftist Land where institutions of higher learning exist only to secure, enhance, and exploit the indoctrination instilled in the K-12 years. Scandals ensue only in those rare instances when someone has the unmitigated gall to utter a shred of truth. Then all hell breaks out.

Anonymous Anonagain June 14, 2013 6:37 PM  

This must be an endless source of amusement for Vox.

I thought the same thing. Nothing gets by this genius. No sir.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 6:41 PM  

Frightened by the deluge of facts and reason they had never experienced before, the rabbits turn tail and hop back to the warren.

There, they proceed to hyperlink to each others' infuriated rants about VD, all of which weave an enraged narrative out of whole cloth, thereby creating an illusion of broad-based thoughtful consensus.

I followed a link in VD's post about the debacle with the two writers to one of their lib blogs, who's enraged post linked to three more enraged posts...I have never seen so much use of the word 'I' in my life. I think Moby Dick contained the word 'I' fewer times than those four total posts.

And none of the four posts bothered to quote what they were angry about. At best, they quoted individual words.

It's incredible, the degree to which these people fuel themselves by pure emotion, while claiming that they are driven purely by logic. I don't see how they can believe it with a straight face.

For example, when they sought to demonize the two writers, they spend two paragraphs talking up the SF industry, their high expectations for it, their hopes and dreams, their belief that SFWA was a paragon of enlightened progressive values...

They spend TWO PARAGRAPHS building this bonfire of victimhood, so they can then blame the conflagration on their intended targets.

Not only are they emotion driven, but they actively manipulate their writing in order to elicit maximum emotional response.

How the Hell can these people claim to be logical with a straight face?

Anonymous Gen. Kong June 14, 2013 6:51 PM  

Ol' Peeez is the living embodiment of Uncle Yusif's important axiom on the subject of edumacation:

Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.

Herr Doktor Prof. Peeeez is an edumacational WMD.

OpenID kaiheitai June 14, 2013 6:53 PM  

I wonder how much harm is done to Blacks in America because it's 'racist' for anyone to ever call them out when they are observed performing non-productive, antisocial, backwards behavior that only perpetuates their status quo for generations on end. Like, having kids out of wedlock and relying on the state. Pursuing instant gratification. Being proud of being ignorant. White people who act like human trash are actively chastised for acting like trash. Black people who act like human trash are encouraged to act like trash. And when their trashy behavior yields predictable results, we're all told it's because of white racism.

From what I've observed, Blacks were well on their way to integrating into mainstream America all the way up into the 1950s. Then, the cultural marxism of the 1960s happened, and they've been untouchable ever since. The value of their society has not remained static since then; it's degradd considerably, as has their ability to integrate into one America.

Anonymous MendoScot June 14, 2013 6:55 PM  

People who probably consider themselves educated and intelligent don't bother to follow the Latin to the Greek.

Or bother to read the footer.

Who would win in a fight? PZ or Al Franken?

Not a fair contest. PZ vs. Washingtonienne, first to get anal wins. My money on Jessica.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 7:01 PM  

Kaiheitai, your post nails the exact reason why it is the progressives who are the racists.

By insisting upon a double standard, they are doing blacks a great disservice.

Anonymous bw June 14, 2013 7:07 PM  

Those who CAN, DO.
Those who CANNOT, teach under tenure.

Anonymous Hyperphrenius June 14, 2013 7:16 PM  

Keep in mind that Jemisin is black. Here’s Theodore Beale coming right out and saying that while she’s human, she’s not fully equal to a white man

So, to Myers, man = woman, black = white?

But in truth he is using "equal" not to mean "the same", but in that strange sense that all progs use it, to mean the vague, bubbly emotional abstraction that floats up in their minds when they here the word "equal". As in "equal doesn't mean the same!" even though it does, and "we're all equal!" even though we're not. Their thoughts aren't coherent regarding this "equal". It's an abstraction that none of them have ever been able to define, because it is indefinite in their minds. Like most of the thoughts swirling around their tempestuous disordered minds, it's mental mush.

And you can't refute mush. No amount of appealing to the science which Myers professes to love will convince him that a black woman is not equal to a white man. Mush lacks any form of its own; it can be molded into whatever shape you want it to be at any given time. As long as he feels compelled to think that all humans are "equal", then "equal" they shall be. The abstraction of his "equal" is as imaginary and detached from the external world as the "science" in which he professes belief. You cannot slay it with the iron sword of logic any more than you can stab to death a streetside puddle. You can only wait until it evaporates, or runs down into the gutter to lie with the rest of the filth.

Anonymous Desiderius June 14, 2013 7:24 PM  

"They spend TWO PARAGRAPHS building this bonfire of victimhood, so they can then blame the conflagration on their intended targets."

Nothing but a run-of-the-mill Auto-da-fé.

Anonymous JRL June 14, 2013 7:35 PM  

Oh so now I'm not fully homo sapiens sapiens...whatever. I thought we were making progress, getting past all this bullshit. Good thing I'v got a shitload of literary talent: white hot flashes of rage wash over me like peals of righteous thunder. My flesh ripples as I endure spasms of my fistulated viscera. Get ready for some Homeric emoting nigga...

Anonymous boomer June 14, 2013 7:42 PM  

VD
Your a very skillful tongue twister of words. Manipulation of word to manipulate their minds.

Anonymous boomer June 14, 2013 7:47 PM  

Warning
never open a can of worms the gate keeper doesn't like

Anonymous VD June 14, 2013 7:49 PM  

See Rule 6, Boomer.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet June 14, 2013 7:53 PM  

VD,

I have some questions out of general interest of your position and with all due respect.

Which genetic differences are significant in defining Blacks in relation to other races? Are these genetic difference present in all Blacks, no matter which continent and historic time period they belong to?

Through interbreeding, when is a Black no longer a Black, at 1/10 heritage? 1/100 heritage?

Are the genetic differences between siblings more or less significant than those between race in identifying behavior or intelligence? Hypothetically, are all second sons genetically more prone to violence and stupidity? If so, how can we use this information if we cannot identify the person's position of birth by sight?

Thank you

Anonymous Lex Rex June 14, 2013 7:58 PM  

I'm really dissapointed in this discussion, 70+ comments regarding neanderthals and homo homo sapiens and there is no sign of Koanic anywhere....

Anonymous boomer June 14, 2013 8:06 PM  

VD
sorry for the remark. You've been called a lot of things and blew them off.
I am more interested in the responses from the elk here.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 8:10 PM  

I think it's pretty clear that culture matters more than genetic difference, seeing how there is lots of evidence that someone raised in a different culture will take on the characteristics of that culture reliably.

I think the issue with Jemisin is that she strongly identifies with the broad black community by choice, which is very disproportionately violent and dysfunctional compared to the mainstream culture.

The fact that she openly chooses to heavily bias in the direction of that culture, bashing whitey every chance she gets, is what exposes her as less than civilized. The lack of restraint of her tone is probably a factor as well. She knows she can get away with extremely provocative language, and uses that to her benefit.

Blogger tz June 14, 2013 8:10 PM  

Evolution and natural selection is about inequality. Everyone loves darwinism until they aren't the ones selected.

But inequality does not even mean the difference is one of superiority or inferiority, except in some specific context.

Assuming Jemisin has not damaged herself, when it comes to having babies, she is far superior. Also at avoiding sunburn.

The first qualities are those of morality - goodness and fairness.

Vox has those well above Jemisin and PZ.

Intelligence used to rationalize illusions, error, mistakes, or unreality is worse than useless. They are committing fraud.

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco June 14, 2013 8:11 PM  

"Who would win in a fight? PZ or Al Franken?"

We, the spectators.

Anonymous VD June 14, 2013 8:17 PM  

sorry for the remark.

NP, no worries.

Blogger Dr. Faust June 14, 2013 8:19 PM  

Keep up the good work VD. The more they rant about you the more attention they'll drive to your blog.

Anonymous VD June 14, 2013 8:21 PM  

Which genetic differences are significant in defining Blacks in relation to other races? Are these genetic difference present in all Blacks, no matter which continent and historic time period they belong to?

No one knows yet. We can observe different attributes, but it's seldom possible yet to map them to known genetic differences. For example, it is presumed that the smaller black cranial capacity and brain size is both genetic and significant. Depends upon what you mean by "black". Pure Africans lack either Neanderthal or Denisov DNA.

Through interbreeding, when is a Black no longer a Black, at 1/10 heritage? 1/100 heritage?

No idea.

Are the genetic differences between siblings more or less significant than those between race in identifying behavior or intelligence?

Again, mapping the genetic differences to attributes is problematic. But certainly genetic differences between races are larger than genetic differences between siblings. So one would assume it was more significant, but we can't actually say yet.

As for your last two questions, I don't know is the answer to both.

Anonymous Red June 14, 2013 8:25 PM  

"I think it's pretty clear that culture matters more than genetic difference, seeing how there is lots of evidence that someone raised in a different culture will take on the characteristics of that culture reliably."

Nope. They will take on some of the characteristics of that culture as long as their a very small minority forced to mix in. Once they're group hits around 15% and/or is allowed to segregate the normal culture of a group become apparent. Africans act like Africans, Germans like Germans, and Chinese like Chinese.

Culture is more a genetic expression than a learned thing. Consider the fact no one in Japan loots during a disaster and yet every other group has at least some looting. The answer? For 500 years they chopped off the heads of anyone who looted and anyone who saw someone looting and did not report it. They bred the loot during a disaster out of their populace.

Anonymous O'Reilly June 14, 2013 8:35 PM  

This is going to have to be two posts because I talk too damn much.

@the peanut gallery

I seem to have missed something to do with Beale’s pen name. Apparently in noticing the Latin I’ve missed something in Greek. If so, yes, you got me Mr. Beale. I know zero Greek. (I know near zero Latin for that matter as well, beyond knowing the Latin verses of “oh come all ye faithful.”) Curious as to what I missed. Either you’re all tremendous kissasses or it’s one of the great multilingual puns in the history of the western world.

@Catan

I went out for a late lunch, Catan. You don’t have to worry about having scared me away. If I stop responding to you, it’s because I’ve lost interest, or something else has come up. Let’s be clear. I have zero interest in having an argument about the Martin case. Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed young man, and now has the right to try to prove he has a valid claim of self defense. Yes, it was an outrage that he got off without being charged under the circumstances, but now he that he has been, it’s purely a question of facts, and not having been there, I don’t feel like playing some random Zimmerman partisan’s foil.

My point that Jemison arguing the law was racist doesn’t somehow make her racist, even if her argument turns out to be wrong. Rather than answer this, you launched into a tirade on the general inferiority of people who disagree with you. Here’s an article that makes Jemison’s case fairly well. Do with it as you will.

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/11/stand_your_ground_law_helps_white_defendants_a_lot_more_than_black_ones/

As for global warming, yes, I’m wholeheartedly on the side of the scientific consensus. No, I don’t have time to argue about it with you. I limit myself making the point of differentiating between saying “90% of structural engineers thing this bridge is unsound” and saying “I think this bridge is unsound, and I have a 170 IQ and am a three time billboard top 50 recording artist.”

More important, you seem to have mistaken me for some kind of moral relativist. Let me be clearer, since my last post was admittedly badly in need of being proofread. Judging by his writing on this blog and his other, I think Beale holds most woman in contempt that rises to the level of hatred, and tend to disbelieve Beale’s protests to the contrary. But, at the same time, I’m not psychic, and must freely admit I could have read Beale incorrectly. That isn’t moral relativism, that’s me admitting the limits of my knowledge.

And you guessed wrong on my religion. Three hints: Irish surname, extremely superficial knowledge of Latin, and allusion to scripture absent specific language or chapter and verse.

@Anonagain

I had no idea I was part of a hive. I always figured it was an apartment complex, but that does explain all the sticky sweet syrup that’s always oozing down the hallways. It’s a huge pain in the ass, but I guess I always just took it for granted.

Anonymous O'Reilly June 14, 2013 8:35 PM  

@Beale

To a certain extent, you’re correct about my take on the personal and the political. If someone crosses a certain line and it’s apparent I’m not going to be able to coax them back across it, I won’t associate with them socially or professionally. (The latter isn’t as iron clad – yes, if you fell into a pit, I’d pull you out.)

A highly ideological white supremacist like yourself – one who cheers for young thugs roughing up, what, South Asian men on the London bus was it? – is on the other side of it. I can be friends with an Opus Dei supernumerary, but not a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. I like having friends with whom I can argue politics. (Recently it’s been interesting – Snowden has done us the favor of shattering the usual sides. Any number of conservatives have forgotten their love of small government, and any number of liberals seem to have gotten over prior outrage regarding the Patriot Act; it’s fun calling them on it.)

The point? You’re right, and you’re not right. I usually separate them very well – much better than your dread ilk has done so far in replying to me – but yes, there comes I point where I do not.

As for putting “think,” in quotes, most people aren’t accustomed to dealing with your sort, and aren’t well equipped to counter your arguments. Like smash brothers 64 players coming up against Marth for the first time, they flounder and get flustered. You’re intelligent, sure, but you’ve managed to use what’s been given to you to get onto the wrong side of the truth for most things.

Anonymous OneFiver June 14, 2013 8:40 PM  

Boom

Anonymous trk June 14, 2013 8:45 PM  

Vox..you better watch out for ole PZ....he might start a fundraising campaign...THE HORROR!

Anonymous Sun Xhu June 14, 2013 8:45 PM  

@O'Reilly: You’re intelligent, sure, but you’ve managed to use what’s been given to you to get onto the wrong side of the truth for most things.

More important, you seem to have mistaken me for some kind of moral relativist.

As for global warming, yes, I’m wholeheartedly on the side of the scientific consensus. I limit myself making the point of differentiating between saying “90% of structural engineers thing this bridge is unsound” and saying “I think this bridge is unsound, and I have a 170 IQ and am a three time billboard top 50 recording artist.”

You choose the "truth" you wish to believe when it fits your worldview. Your analogy is flawed, in that structural engineering is an exact science, whereas "climatology" isn't even on par with psychology in the realm of accuracy.

If the "scientific consensus" told you that we were all deposited here, on Earth, by aliens 6000 years ago, would you believe that to be truth? How about that the sun revolves around the Earth?

As has been shown many times, here and elsewhere, if scientists are "in consensus" they are probably wrong.

Anonymous Van June 14, 2013 8:46 PM  

To prove that stand-your-ground laws are racist, Reilly posted a link to an article that uses the logic of disparate impact. I'm f'n psychic.

Anonymous Red June 14, 2013 8:48 PM  

I always find it funny when a leftist brings up their own plant groups. The Westboro Baptist Church is a bunch of left wing lawyers playing at being a caricature of a right wing religious group. The few times they tried their bullshit without left wing police protection the local right wing recknecks beat the living shit out of them.

Anonymous paradox June 14, 2013 8:53 PM  

The million dollar question... did Neanderthals have souls?

Anonymous O'Reilly June 14, 2013 8:57 PM  

@Sun Xhu

No, truth is truth. It may not always be readily apparent, and reasonable, well informed people may honestly disagree as to what it is, but at the end of the day there's only one.

@Red

Substitute someone else for them, then. The analogy is unaffected.

Anonymous Sun Xhu June 14, 2013 9:08 PM  

@O'Reilly:

Obviously not, to you. Your "truths" are merely emotional rhetoric, akin to chicken-little.

Anonymous Stickwick June 14, 2013 9:18 PM  

Curious as to what I missed. Either you’re all tremendous kissasses or it’s one of the great multilingual puns in the history of the western world.

Day -> Dei -> Theo, ergo the Voice of Theo. It wouldn't rise to anything more than a clever little pun if it weren't for the fact that it consistently elicits speculation about Vox's megalomaniacal nature.

Anonymous LL June 14, 2013 9:23 PM  

Only the Left will automatically assume that when a white man uses the word "different," he means inferior when talking about race, sexuality, gender, and sex (m/f). Why do they always look to be offended? Their perpetual angst created by their own false definitions and poor reading comprehension are amusing and silly to behold. They trap themselves so easily it only takes a few carefully turned phrases for Vox to kick over the anthill. Bravo!

Anonymous SPQR June 14, 2013 9:26 PM  

We've long known at Debunkers that having a correct understanding of genetics is "racist".

So is being able to recognize an empty resume == "racist".

And being able to do ordinary statistical analysis == "racist".

Anonymous O'Reilly June 14, 2013 9:36 PM  

@Stickwick

I still didn't get it until I checked the wikipedia page for Theodore. Fair enough, it's a clever little trap, a monomaniacal sounding pen name with a benign explanation.

Anonymous bob k. mando June 14, 2013 9:39 PM  

the culmination of Zola's trial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eEH4yhYdsc

Anonymous Mudz June 14, 2013 9:40 PM  

1) She's black.

Therefore,

2) VD is a racist.

I didn't want to believe, but here's the proof. Black people have magic powers.

Anonymous Anonymous June 14, 2013 9:40 PM  

O'Reilly...

Yes..truth is truth and generally it is readily apparent.

No, as it turns out I am beginning to find that it is quite rare for reasonable and well informed people to disagree for any real length of time.

I'm afraid after reading most of your comments I come away quite embarrassed for you...and this from someone who is not always in complete agreement with VD.

Most of your arguments are of the "I think" variety.

There is more one might say, but is it really worth it?

Aaron Investigates...

Anonymous indeed June 14, 2013 9:43 PM  

Anonagain is heavily invested in Vox's revelations. One senses that if his views are discredited her reality will shatter. Was she raped by a goat, or dumped by a black dude? What is the source of that fanaticism?

Kudos to O'Reilly for braving the brackish waters here and going against the seething hatred of the hive. Alas, as usual, it won't last. Sensible men have only so much energy to devote to enlightening fanatics, and anyway you guys have no power in the real world, so it doesn't matter. Ilk, do your duty and shout down this interloper of sanity.

Anonymous SPQR June 14, 2013 9:47 PM  

Odd, I didn't know that it was "sensible" to misrepresent what others write in order to feel justified at shouting ad hominems.

Anonymous indeed June 14, 2013 9:50 PM  

Lol at the "newcomers don't get the Day/Dey/fag" reference. That's like a bunch of Star Trek nerds going around speaking in Klingon and sniggering at normal people who think they're dorks because, after all, they're having a very normal conversation, it's just affected to look nerdy ("heh heh snort!").

Guess what, speaking Klingon means you're a dork, even if you're just putting it on. And playing asshole makes you an asshole, especially if it's an elaborate I'm-smarter-than-you production.

Anonymous indeed June 14, 2013 9:58 PM  

Odd, I didn't know that it was "sensible" to misrepresent what others write in order to feel justified at shouting ad hominems.

Interesting, would you say it was sensible if the misrepresentation was the result of a mistaken impression, the kind of which was generally encouraged by the blogger, in an elaborate phantom-of-the-opera style production where he imagines himself rising from the rat infested sewer beneath the stage to take off his mask and reveal that actually, no, he's not a fanatical racist who thinks women should be breeding factories, he just makes it sound like that sometimes? What's the audience supposed to do, laugh and rejoice?

Anonymous Mudz June 14, 2013 9:59 PM  

And 'indeed' has magic powers too?! This is an outrage! Where can I sign up for them?!

-

Though, at the risk of sounding repetitive (and I'm not too happy with who I appear to be siding with): O'Reilly may be wrong, but he doesn't strike me as being unreasonable. People can simply have opinions, whether they're right or wrong, and he's not trying to pass it off as anything else.

He trusts a consensus. Is he correct to do so? Perhaps not, but it's not a crime.

He thinks Vox hates women. Is he correct? I would say observably not, and it's a silly accusation. But it's his opinion, not an argument.

He's just relating his interpretations (according to my interpretation), which can be debated without assuming that he's another anklebiter.

-

@ indeed

Greek is not Klingon. It would make them, at most, elitists, not dorks.

#my2cents

Anonymous darwinist June 14, 2013 10:01 PM  

FYI, I have contacted the FBI about your racist and sexist comments, Theo. And I have called reporters at the NY Times, Guardian and Washington Post. Plus you might get a visit by a SWAT team tonight. nazi scum like you needs to be shut down. I bet you get an IRS audit too. You see, we are not just going to kick your racist ass out of the SWFA, we are going to shut you down all the way.

Anonymous Pete June 14, 2013 10:04 PM  

Two Jewish researchers claim that Neanderthals survived and are now called Jews.

See the work of Michael Bradley and Stan Gooch.

Blogger stareatgoatsies June 14, 2013 10:06 PM  

For example, it is presumed that the smaller black cranial capacity and brain size is both genetic and significant.

Women have smaller brains but near identical median IQs. Whales and elephants have massive brains and sub-retard level intelligences. Who is it exactly that presumes blacks have smaller brains and that this difference is significant regarding IQ and other trait? Can you name any of them?

Anonymous LL June 14, 2013 10:10 PM  

@indeed


If "you guys have no real power in the world," why the incessant blathering about "privilege?" Can privilege be bestowed and held for decades by the powerless? You are illogical

Anonymous Boogeyman June 14, 2013 10:12 PM  

... then claimed that I am a "self-described misogynist, racist, anti-Semite, and a few other flavors of asshole."

What other asshole flavors are there? Hey, wait a sec. Asshole flavored jelly beans. There is the racist flavor, the anti-Semite flavor, the feminist flavor is pretty bitter, but you're going to have to include it to complete the set.

It should make a killing! Let me write this down.

Anonymous Trembling With Rage June 14, 2013 10:14 PM  

@ Indeed

What's the audience supposed to do, laugh and rejoice?

What a load of disingenuous pretension. You make me want to vomit up toads.

Many, many toads.


Blogger Liam June 14, 2013 10:14 PM  

All this homo sapiens/neaderthal/Denisovans is pretty interesting stuff. You have any books or resources you recommend to get a good grasp on these subjects? Thanks.

Anonymous physphilmusic June 14, 2013 10:25 PM  

Day -> Dei -> Theo, ergo the Voice of Theo. It wouldn't rise to anything more than a clever little pun if it weren't for the fact that it consistently elicits speculation about Vox's megalomaniacal nature.

Even after having taken two semesters of Greek, I still didn't get it until you pointed this out. I thought it was something more complex than that - I was thinking of the "δɷρo" part of "Theodore" (meaning: gift), trying to see how it might sound like "Day".

Anonymous kh123 June 14, 2013 10:26 PM  

"Two Jewish researchers claim that Neanderthals survived and are now called Jews."

I was waiting for who was going to walk into the bar next.

Anonymous kh123 June 14, 2013 10:30 PM  

Tad's a faggot, and Asher can typing.

Just thought I'd bring that up. Carry on.

Anonymous Anonagain June 14, 2013 10:37 PM  

indeed is obviously a sniveling moron loser who's already been banned under another name. Not surprisingly, a banner loser by any other name is still a blathering retard.

Anonymous bob k. mando June 14, 2013 10:48 PM  

indeed June 14, 2013 9:43 PM
Anonagain is heavily invested in Vox's revelations. One senses that if his views are discredited her reality will shatter.




she once demanded that either Vox ban and delete all those who she considered to have insulted her or that Vox make her a mod/admin and she'd take care of it herself.

Vox refused both of those options.

yet she's still here. commenting freely. as are her detractors.


this raises the question:
IF i stipulate to your contention that she is "heavily invested in Vox" THEN why isn't she 'shattered' by his refusal to cater to her whims?

if anything, her behavior has been improving.

Anonymous Anonagain June 14, 2013 10:56 PM  

A bitter beta with one too many head injuries.

Blogger Guitar Man June 14, 2013 11:02 PM  

Honestly, I went on PZ's blog out of curiosity, and lived to regret that decision. His perspectives are so cliché, and his own personal warren of rabbits are just as pathetic and of low intellectual qualities as Scalzi's that I imagine most of them have the same appearance of the typical lethargic feminist, male or female.

The comments there were so focused on how "bad" they felt for you, or how they pity you for your flaming sword photo, hardly putting up any attempt at actually arguing against your points you made against Jemisin.

That said, Vox, I am left to conclude that yes, MPAI. And I have very little patience for those types the older I get.

This blog actually makes me think and research. I don't know why anyone would waste their valuable time on a site like PZ's or Scalzi's, if you're not being challenged on a consistent basis.

-MJB

Anonymous bob k. mando June 14, 2013 11:07 PM  

Anonagain June 14, 2013 10:56 PM
A bitter beta with one too many head injuries.




me?


Blogger Deuce June 14, 2013 11:15 PM  

stareatgoatsies:


"Women have smaller brains but near identical median IQs."

That's partly because IQ test scoring is deliberately weighted in such a way as to achieve that result. In fact, women are better at verbal intelligence tests, and men at spatial and abstract reasoning. If they were weighted more in either direction, the results would be different.

Anonymous Anonagain June 14, 2013 11:19 PM  

I had no idea I was part of a hive. -- O'Reilly

You obviously have no idea about many things.

Anonymous Noah B. June 14, 2013 11:21 PM  

@O'Reilly

Sounds like Marissa Alexander got screwed by the "justice" system, like a lot of other unfortunate people. Since it's Salon, I figured there's more to the story that they weren't reporting -- and I was right.

From the Miami Herald:

"Duval State Attorney Angela Corey, the same special prosecutor brought in by the governor to oversee the Trayvon Martin case in Sanford, dismissed the growing protests against the disproportionate verdict. Corey noted that just a few days before her trial, Alexander had rejected a plea offer that would have sent her to prison for three years instead of 20."

So, the same anti-self-defense zealot prosecuting Zimmerman was responsible for prosecuting Alexander. And according to this sorry bitch, it's all Marissa Corey's fault for not accepting a plea deal. Because innocent people being wrongly prosecuted should just shut the fuck up instead of resisting the will of the state.

The problem here isn't the Stand Your Ground law, it's prosecutorial misconduct.

Anonymous Noah B. June 14, 2013 11:23 PM  

Oops -- should read "...it's all Marissa Alexander's fault for not accepting a plea deal."

Anonymous Inane Rambler June 14, 2013 11:25 PM  

While I'm not fully convinced humans can be divided into subspecies as such, the Grey Wolf is less than a million years old, and certainly has recognized subspecies, with over 5 in North America alone.

Wolves are believed to have settled in the Americas less than 140,000 thousand years ago. Since Homo Sapiens Sapiens has lived a total of 200,000 years according to recent estimates, the possibility that humans can legitimately be divided into subspecies isn't that out there in the realm of possibility.

Blogger IM2L844 June 14, 2013 11:25 PM  

You see, we are not just going to kick your racist ass out of the SWFA, we are going to shut you down all the way.

How do you shut down a fleet of pirate ships?

Blogger Derrick Bonsell June 14, 2013 11:27 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous bob k. mando June 14, 2013 11:27 PM  

stareatgoatsies:
"Women have smaller brains but near identical median IQs."





*facepalm*

along with their smaller brains they also average significantly lower body weights ( assuming that they aren't morbidly obese ).

do you have any idea HOW LONG biologists have been acquainted with the fact that intelligence is generally tied to the brain / body mass ratio?

consider the corvids, a group whose brains weigh, at most, a couple of ounces. and yet they are considered some of the most intelligent animals on the planet.

all you demonstrate by quoting direct male to female brain weight comparisons is your own ignorance.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 11:32 PM  

No, truth is truth.

If you really think there is no difference between hard science that is reproducible, and climate science which is not testable (We have no control Earth to test on), then you are an idiot and not worth discussing with further.

You don't want to discuss the Martin case either.

The article you posted on the Stand your Ground law just describes TWO (TWO!) cases, one white one black, where the black was convicted and the white not. TWO CASES!

I think it's safe to say TWO cases isn't a large enough sample size. You don't seem to understand that either.

What a waste of time.

Anonymous NateM June 14, 2013 11:33 PM  

http://youtu.be/EUwkxCfHoaQ

i'll just leave this here.. you may recognize the chin-lacking young man on drums...

Anonymous bob k. mando June 14, 2013 11:33 PM  

darwinist June 14, 2013 10:01 PM
FYI, I have contacted the FBI about your racist and sexist comments, Theo. And I have called reporters at the NY Times, Guardian and Washington Post. Plus you might get a visit by a SWAT team tonight. nazi scum like you needs to be shut down. I bet you get an IRS audit too. You see, we are not just going to kick your racist ass out of the SWFA, we are going to shut you down all the way.






you know, when i first read that post i thought it was sarcasm from one of the regulars.

but rabbits are so damn stupid, now i'm not sure. it might be for real.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 11:36 PM  

Truth is truth.

No, what you mean is consensus is consensus

The Earth has not warmed for over FIFTEEN YEARS.

Considering the warmists are basing their theory on a thirty year warming spike, a FIFTEEN YEAR halt when the models predicted no such thing...

Are you really saying that has no bearing on your judgment? You will follow your lemming leaders right over the cliff.

You blindly believe in and follow your 'expert' betters.

What if your 'expert' betters have been c corrupted by billions of dollars in grant money?
What if politicians have determined global warming is politically useful and the scientists have found themselves in a position where they must provide results to ensure their continued livelihoods?

You don't even consider the possibility of corruption.

You are a naive child still. Progressivism is born of naiveté of the world and a desire to see humanity as transcendent and naturally benevolent.

Blogger IM2L844 June 14, 2013 11:38 PM  

The point? You’re right, and you’re not right.

Bona fide Cake Eater Speak.

They simply can't resist the desire to have it both ways.

Anonymous TheExpat June 14, 2013 11:39 PM  

For example, it is presumed that the smaller black cranial capacity and brain size is both genetic and significant.

Women have smaller brains but near identical median IQs. Whales and elephants have massive brains and sub-retard level intelligences. Who is it exactly that presumes blacks have smaller brains and that this difference is significant regarding IQ and other trait? Can you name any of them?


Try brain-to-body mass ratio instead of simple brain size, although note that the relationship is not precisely linear depending on over/under-development of certain brain areas in accordance with the characteristics of the animal involved and other factors.

From wikipedia (yes, yes, wikipedia, I know):

The evolution of Homo sapiens over the past two million years has been marked by a steady increase in brain size, but much of it can be accounted for by corresponding increases in body size. There are, however, many departures from the trend that are difficult to explain in a systematic way: in particular, the appearance of modern man about 100,000 years ago was marked by a decrease in body size at the same time as an increase in brain size. Even so, it is noteworthy that Neanderthals, which went extinct about 40,000 years ago, had larger brains than modern Homo sapiens.

Women have, on average, smaller bodies than men, so according to the brain-to-body mass ratio guideline, a proportionally smaller brian size could still be expected to produce an approximately equal median IQ, especially if the test weighting is adjusted as noted above. Again, over/under-development of certain brain areas in accordance with the characteristics of the animal involved and other factors. The issue is that a genetically distinct sub-species with a smaller cranial capacity for roughly the same body size has been repeatedly and statistically shown to have a lower average IQ. Correlation? Causation? Well, that is still open for some debate. But the relationship is there.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 11:39 PM  

The frothing hatred they have for Vox while kissing the ass of an anti-white, racist black female just boggles the mind.

How can anyone believe in a worldview that allows certain people to be racist?

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 11:44 PM  

A highly ideological white supremacist like yourself – one who cheers for young thugs roughing up, what, South Asian men on the London bus was it? – is on the other side of it.

Hey O'Reilly, have you EVER called a racist black a 'Black Supremacist'?

Have you EVER called out a black for frothing anti-white hatred?

You don't go to Japan and accuse them of being racist, do you? When's the last time you've called a Japanese a Japanese Supremacist?

EVER? Or are you just an anti-white racist hypocrite?

Vox is a racist because he believes in Western Civilization. What an evil man he is!

What utter drivel. You consider yourself an intellectual too, I'm sure.

Anonymous Catan June 14, 2013 11:47 PM  

As for 'Vox cheering young thugs roughing up South Asian men', you need to directly quote him to make a point like that. Vox is mis-quoted so often that to expect anyone to take your interpretation at its word is ridiculous.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza June 14, 2013 11:53 PM  

Team Vox. Comedy Gold = PZ.

Anonymous Anonagain June 14, 2013 11:54 PM  

Vox is mis-quoted so often that to expect anyone to take your interpretation at its word is ridiculous.

Ankle-biters gotta have material to chew on and spout off.

Anonymous DCM June 15, 2013 12:06 AM  

"And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire"

Vox, have you been keeping track of how many times PZ Myers has fallen into traps you've set for him? Does he hold the record?

Anonymous Stickwick June 15, 2013 12:34 AM  

Guess what, speaking Klingon means you're a dork, even if you're just putting it on. And playing asshole makes you an asshole, especially if it's an elaborate I'm-smarter-than-you production.

Wow, someone's still bitter about missing out on Klingon language camp.

Anonymous dh June 15, 2013 12:41 AM  

FYI, I have contacted the FBI about your racist and sexist comments, Theo. And I have called reporters at the NY Times, Guardian and Washington Post. Plus you might get a visit by a SWAT team tonight. nazi scum like you needs to be shut down. I bet you get an IRS audit too. You see, we are not just going to kick your racist ass out of the SWFA, we are going to shut you down all the way.

Something tells me that the FBI isn't going to be too willy nilly running wild in Italy, given that last time US nationals went on a spree inside Italy it ended up with 22 indictments and convictions against US citizens "just following orders".

Anonymous O'Reilly June 15, 2013 12:46 AM  

@Noah B.

Two problems, really. Prosecutorial misconduct and a dumb jury. Stand your ground also makes it more difficult to prosecute gang shootings, but that's another matter.

@Catan

No, when I say truth I mean truth, not consensus. It's not unreasonable to refuse to take me at my word when it comes to sources, but if you're unwilling to even take my word that I actually believe the things I say believe, I'm not sure why you're wasting so much effort talking to me.

I already told you I wasn't going to argue with you about global warming, and that you were free to take that however you wanted to. And as for Martin, there's a logical basis for arguing that stand your ground prosecutions have been tainted by racism, and as such your initial argument that saying automatically makes someone racist -- you never did explain how that works.

Of course, here I am writing paragraphs to someone who is mentally assigning me motives of her own choosing.... I suppose I really should take my own advice here and disengage.

I will answer your questions, though.

Yes, I called out a Nation of Islam type in a used bookstore a couple of years ago.

And yes, I've called out a "Japanese supremacist" too. The argument was mainly over his attempts to deny the rape of nanking, but his being a bigot also came up in conversation.

Final question for you. Do you actually think I disagree with Beale because he "believes in western civilization"?

Finally, as to the source of "Beale cheering on young thugs who attacked a South Asian on a London bus," I assumed the commentators would be familiar with a post made here a few months ago. But here is the link:

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2013/03/because-you-invaded-their-country.html

It was Manchester rather than London, by the way. My apologies.

Anonymous dh June 15, 2013 12:54 AM  

Two problems, really. Prosecutorial misconduct and a dumb jury. Stand your ground also makes it more difficult to prosecute gang shootings, but that's another matter.

First off, gang members like everyone else, have a right to self-defense. It is better to not prosecute a gang member involved in a shooting than for an innocent person to hestitate for one second in applying deadly force in their own defense.

Secondly, a "dumb jury" is a risk with any jury-based system.

Finally, as to the source of "Beale cheering on young thugs who attacked a South Asian on a London bus," I assumed the commentators would be familiar with a post made here a few months ago. But here is the link:

Please quote the cheering. The post in question simply answers the question posed by the receiver of a beating: "'Why would nobody help me?'".

Blogger Justthisguy June 15, 2013 1:30 AM  

A case could be made that Griggs vs. Duke Power was mean to auties. We tend to do better on IQ tests than in interviews, being more smart than sociable. I wonder if there is an ADA lawsuit in there, somewhere. Also, I think we should be allowed suppressors on our firearms, provided by Obamacare, as those loud noises really get on our sensitive nerves. (Our nerves really are more sensitive. Have any of you guys ever tried that icky trigger on a Glock? Gimme the breaking-glass trigger on my Smith.)

Blogger Bogey June 15, 2013 1:41 AM  

Vox really got the them stirred up recently. The entertainment value of the warren is seemingly without end.

Also, it's hilarious to see the same people who accused Obama dissenters of not understanding nuance going after Vox.

Blogger Bogey June 15, 2013 1:46 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Doom June 15, 2013 2:00 AM  

Well... scientifically illiterate? Actually, I think he is quite scientifically literate, just not by modern standards, or currently, as it will be and always has been. Science, itself, is illiterate, when you believe it is the truth, and not merely a tool to attempt to ascertain the truth. He drew a line in the sand, high tide came up. Then stood there while the hurricane erased his beach and intellectual drowned. He's a dead old white academic who doesn't even know his own area "of expertise" is what has run him over.

Your just mean and nasty because you happened to notice. I don't bother. I wish I had more time and interest... Nah, I take that back. Why? Academia is doomed by the political mechanisms funding it and which it supports. Watching rabbits building their own death trap from afar is... enjoyable enough. I don't need to tickle the details like you do. Then again, usually they come to you... so... fair dinkum.

Blogger Jordan179 June 15, 2013 2:45 AM  

So because Africa lacked the ports and rivers to foster the cultures that valued learning and forced competition/development, descendants of those Africans who have lived all their life in the US, and whose parents lived all their life in the US, have a lower average IQ because...they don't live next to any seaports?

Thomas Sowell believes that it's because American black culture descends from Scots-Irish rural culture. See Black Rednecks and White Liberals, described here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Rednecks_and_White_Liberals

Both the white redneck and the most black American subcultures, especially the slum culture (which has a much higher reproduction rate than do middle- and upper-class blacks) tend to be anti-intellectual, which makes them do poorly on both general-knowledge and some math/reasonining parts of IQ tests. This anti-intellectualism, coupled with an anti-social attitude encouraged by white liberals since the late 1960's, also makes them do very poorly in the work world.

This is all to the advantage of the American Left, who thus has a perfect perpetual-victim class to milk for votes.

Blogger Jordan179 June 15, 2013 2:48 AM  

Catan said:

As usual, the left is responsible for the mess they then accuse others of being racists for noticing.

And it is a mess, and while Leftists pat themselves on the back for their supposed superior compassion and sensitivity, their continued coddling and even subsidizing of bad behavior among blacks -- especially criminality and anti-intellectualism -- only makes the black slum culture even the more damaged and incapable of survival outside of that cooon of support.

Blogger stareatgoatsies June 15, 2013 3:14 AM  

all you demonstrate by quoting direct male to female brain weight comparisons is your own ignorance.

Incorrect. I give that it was one of my first reactions. Then I did some googling, scanned wikipedia and a few studies and articles, wandered thru stormfront, and came to the conclusion that... it would take far too long, if it were even possible, for me to come to a conclusion. So I posed some obvious counter-arguments and asked Vox to provide some sources.

A sample from the Scientific American:

That may be so, however, new scientific studies across several animal species, including humans, are challenging the notion that brain size alone is a measure of intelligence. Rather, scientists now argue, it is a brain's underlying organization and molecular activity at its synapses (the communication junctions between neurons through which nerve impulses pass) that dictate intelligence.


do you have any idea HOW LONG biologists have been acquainted with the fact that intelligence is generally tied to the brain / body mass ratio?

Generally tied to != Always tied to
Contrary study regarding primates

Anonymous Red June 15, 2013 3:26 AM  

"Thomas Sowell believes that it's because American black culture descends from Scots-Irish rural culture. See Black Rednecks and White Liberals, described here"

I've read the book. Thomas Sowell is wrong. I've spent a lot of time around both white and black trash. While I dislike both groups, both statistics and personal experience bears out that white trash is far less like to rape, rob, and murder you. Blacks simply haven't had enough time to go through the selection required to civilize people. The selection process that produces civilized people has been working in reverse since the civil rights movement. Blacks are becoming more feral, not less.

Anonymous dh June 15, 2013 3:26 AM  

And it is a mess, and while Leftists pat themselves on the back for their supposed superior compassion and sensitivity, their continued coddling and even subsidizing of bad behavior among blacks -- especially criminality and anti-intellectualism -- only makes the black slum culture even the more damaged and incapable of survival outside of that cooon of support.

"Supposed" is not the word. The compassion is not debateable by any measurable standards.

The difference is that the right and conservatives believe that we should separate out and sort of go our own ways, or else a big bad civil war 2.0 is coming.

The leftists believe the blacks and other minorities, as well as low class whites, can co-exist. It will take a long-time for enough to move out of the slums. In the meantime, it is better to have the low-classes idle, and aborting 50% of their next generation than precipitating a bloody war.

Anonymous dh June 15, 2013 3:27 AM  

Blacks are becoming more feral, not less.

Just out of curiosity, have you spent any time around middle class, or upwardly mobile, blacks?

Anonymous Revan June 15, 2013 3:29 AM  

@O'Reilly

Whether the stand your ground law has had racist applications is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that there is nothing in the language of the law that suggests that it is even remotely racist.

The link to the VD post that supposedly showed "Beale cheering on young thugs who attacked a South Asian on a London bus" shows nothing of the sort. You should read the post again.


Anonymous Outlaw X June 15, 2013 3:34 AM  


PZ Myers, professional "biologist"


Well I defer to PZ since he is a professional biologist where the male squid penis inserts into the female squid vagina and they build quid pens to keep their child squid children safe from Bad things in the ocean. And when all the squid children grow up they all are equal.

Like the chickens on the farm where hen rape was an a everyday occurrence from the rooster grabbing the hen by the nape of the neck with his rapist beak and raping the crap out of the hen who was running. I asked my grandfather why they did it and his answer was, "Outlaw, they are chickens and that is what chickens do."

Anonymous Conservative Language Institute of America June 15, 2013 3:39 AM  

Contra to their propaganda and that of their enablers like PZ, women and NAM's have never been required to jump through extra hoops... they only have to prove that they are as good as the hoops that most white men jump through all the time.

When a woman or a minority in real life cannot meet standards, then in real life the liberal must always lower such standards and pretend there are other “non-objective” and thus unmeasurable qualities to admit the initial failure anyway and pretend it is advantageously “equal”.

At the secret core of every leftist is the screaming envy and hatred of those who innately meet or exceed meritocratic real-world standards.

Blogger stareatgoatsies June 15, 2013 3:59 AM  

Please quote the cheering. The post in question simply answers the question posed by the receiver of a beating: "'Why would nobody help me?'".

Please... quote... the... cheering. Should he quote the bit where Vox throws his pom-poms in the air and coos too? It was clearly a figure of speech. Just count how many times the thugs are either called heroes or compared to heroes. For the motivated, there is plenty of the sort of inflammatory rhetoric which one one could, fairly, use to ascribe racist motivations to Vox. I wouldn't, personally, but it's a weak spot.

Anonymous Conservative Language Institute of America June 15, 2013 3:59 AM  

dh: "The leftists believe the blacks and other minorities, as well as low class whites, can co-exist."

Like hell, you say...
As but one of myriad counter examples, consider immigration.

The left has actually given up on blacks ever being able to take care of themselves and be anything but handout trolls and freebie extortionists (including so-called “middle class” blacks in set-aside do-nothing paper-pushing government bureaucratic jobs). So the left has stridently pushed for unlimited immigration of Hispanics because the left knows that Hispanics covertly despise blacks and will wage both a culture war and a real war of gangs to control blacks, force them out of their neighborhoods and reduce their populations through violence. And meanwhile, as you state in an attempt to misdirect, the left has always waged an unacknowledged eugenics war against blacks via unlimited subsidized abortions at any point both up to and even after birth.

Anonymous Red June 15, 2013 4:02 AM  

[quote]Just out of curiosity, have you spent any time around middle class, or upwardly mobile, blacks?[/quote]

Indeed I have. I'm rooming with one right now. Problem is that none of them are having kids and the thugs are pumping them out like crazy.

Anonymous VD June 15, 2013 4:06 AM  

The compassion is not debateable by any measurable standards.

Sure it is. Do you think it is compassionate to give a big bag of candy to a diabetic because you want him to feel better?

The leftists believe the blacks and other minorities, as well as low class whites, can co-exist.

Contra pretty much the entire recorded history of Man. The problem is that they assume that it makes no difference if the mix is 99-1 or 40-60. The fact co-existence was possible in the former case is not an indication that it can work in the latter.

The problem, of course, is that people can argue that it works right up to the point that it stops working.

Anonymous Outlaw X June 15, 2013 4:29 AM  

The problem, of course, is that people can argue that it works right up to the point that it stops working.


They have never been to Afghanistan and they don't know.

Several examples. My friend at work who is a an excellent engineer asked me to come to Afghanistan with him back in 2005 or so, And I declined. He was teaching them about soil erosion and made some templates to create the wire for gabion baskets. He went to the little village of women who's husbands were killed and gave them the templates and the material. So they could make some money. He soon found out that the men were taking the money and were standing around watching the women with while wearing the gloves he had given them as they were working bare handed.

Then he gave a class on how to find watyer using vegetation to develop a spring. Well after he taught them all this two men came to him and asked how to get the dream. He didn't understand at first and found out they thought he got a dream to find the water after he had given a two day class on spring development.

There is one worse than that which I will not tell. But if anyone thinks that he didn't try to make them understand and believes all cultures are the same they are fools.

Woman better understand what they think of you and how you are treated in other cultures.

Anonymous Revan June 15, 2013 5:08 AM  

"Just count how many times the thugs are either called heroes or compared to heroes."

The thugs weren't referred to as heroes, VD merely predicted that they would eventually be called heroes. Do you not understand the difference?

Blogger stareatgoatsies June 15, 2013 5:40 AM  

@Revan: ctrl-F is your friend

Anonymous TheVillageIdiotRet June 15, 2013 9:11 AM  

Dr. Myers reminds me of the time I crossed a crocodile with an abalone,
and got a crock of baloney.
or was that Oscar Mayer ?
I always get them mixed up.

DannyR

Anonymous bob k. mando June 15, 2013 9:29 AM  

stareatgoatsies June 15, 2013 3:14 AM
Generally tied to != Always tied to





no shit?

when someone uses the modifier "generally" that necessarily implies that they are completely UNAWARE that there may be "SPECIFIC" exceptions?

my mind, it is blown.

http://ircimg.net/mind-blown.gif

http://gifs.gifbin.com/1238157980_scanners_-_head_explosion.gif

meanwhile, i'll leave you to ponder why Corvids are often found to be more intelligent than Cetaceans despite the fact that Cetaceans have brains which mass an order of magnitude larger than the Corvids. not order of magnitude larger than the Corvid brains mind you. Cetacean brains are an order of magnitude larger than the Corvid BODIES.

however at this point, i sincerely doubt your ability to follow the logic train to into that station.




dh June 15, 2013 3:26 AM
The difference is that the right and conservatives believe that we should separate out and sort of go our own ways, or else a big bad civil war 2.0 is coming.
The leftists believe the blacks and other minorities, as well as low class whites, can co-exist.



what? now Charlie Manson is right wing?

hate to prick your dream bubble dh, but 'the coming race war' has been a staple of left wing ideology since the hippies and the black panthers.

to the extent that conservatives care about it, they just wish the "nigga life" crowd would leave them the fuck alone. that they are constantly forced to interact with "nigga life" afficianados is YET ANOTHER part of the liberal agenda.

Blogger stareatgoatsies June 15, 2013 10:30 AM  

when someone uses the modifier "generally" that necessarily implies that they are completely UNAWARE that there may be "SPECIFIC" exceptions?

my mind, it is blown.


I had an amused (non-passive-aggressive) chuckle at your epiphany, Bob. To be honest this thread is dead and I don't give a flying fuck about your little Corvids and Cetaceans - the adults are off somewhere else discussing PRIMATES.

Blogger stareatgoatsies June 15, 2013 10:42 AM  

eh... that was overblown. suffice to say, it could be an interesting discussion, but i'm out.

Anonymous E. PERLINE June 15, 2013 11:40 AM  

What a wonderful world this would be if we deleted the bug in our brain that gets angry. Various races and nationalities wouldn't care what they are called. Various sexes wouldn't care what they are called. They would just do the things they are good at, and not have to worry about image.

Anonymous Pete June 15, 2013 11:53 AM  

Liam asked: "You have any books or resources you recommend to get a good grasp on these subjects?"

I mentioned Michael Bradley and Stan Gooch above.

Michael Bradley - michaelbradley.info - The Iceman Inheritance, Chosen People from the Caucasus

Stan Gooch - Neanderthal Question, The Neanderthal Legacy: Reawakening Our Genetic and Cultural Origins, etc.

Both these gentlemen are Jewish, so these are not anti-semitic screeds.

Anonymous Pete June 15, 2013 12:01 PM  

I would also recommend Joseph P. Farrel's Genes, Giants, Monsters, And Men. In this book the last chapter is entitled A Memory Of Man Past: Genetic Clans, Archaeological Anomalies, Ey Enigmas, And Speculative Solutions is particularly pertinent.

Farrell notes with regard to Neanderthal genes in humans: "giving a DNA content of modern humans that is approximately 1-4 percent Neanderthal, a significant amount given that humans and chimpanzees differ only in 1.5 per¬cent of DNA. What is most interesting, however, is that this 1-4 percent of DNA that is common to modern man and Neanderthal man is present only in non-African humans."

So, I would note, that 1-4 percent can be not that important as chimps also share about the same percentage. Also, one can note alternatively to Vox, that the African genetics indicate not a "purer human", but rather a group which does not have all the genetic material to work with that Europeans have.

Farrell notes the work of Bryan Sykes The Seven Daughters of Eve, " all Europeans come from only seven different clan mothers, or The Seven Daughters of Eve ... Those seven different clan mothers all in turn come from one common mother, "mitochondrial Eve" as the geneticists call her, as indeed, do all humans now alive on the planet."

Farrell goes on to note that there are 10 Clan Fathers - and the importance of the Y chromosome which Feminists like to dismiss. First regarding the X chromosome of females - "Mitochondrial DNA also mutates much more quickly than ordinary DNA, and thus, "the 'molecular clock' by which we can calculate the passage of time through DNA is ticking much faster" within mitochondrial DNA versus nuclear DNA."

And the Y of males - " There was another story that was being told by genetic sequencing as well, and that story is locked up in the male Y chromosome. The Y chromosome has, as Sykes quips, but "one purpose in life: to create men." In effect, it is a stunted gene which prevents human embryos from becoming girls. It literally programs other genes in human DNA to develop into males and not females.

In other words, it is a "special program."


... The problem with the Y chromosome, however, proved to be its extraordinary stability; they were not only "full of `junk' DNA which had no obvious function: but all over the world the amount of mutations was far below what was expected."

A very interesting book.

Anonymous Rex Little June 15, 2013 12:04 PM  

Myers is also wrong about my having modified my original post in any way.

Not quite true. I compared the screenshots he linked to what you have up now, and there are a few minor changes in wording. "In any important way" would be accurate; you certainly didn't make it any less offensive to those who are offended by such things.

Anonymous le bLoug June 15, 2013 12:07 PM  

Mon pauvre monsieur,
Vous ne comprenez rien de rien à la biologie en général et à la génétique en particulier. Le seul imbécile qui devrait se taire, c'est vous.

Anonymous GreyS June 15, 2013 1:27 PM  

"Mon pauvre monsieur,
Vous ne comprenez rien de rien à la biologie en général et à la génétique en particulier. Le seul imbécile qui devrait se taire, c'est vous."


Vous n'avez obtenu aucun chili.

Anonymous kh123 June 15, 2013 1:31 PM  

Foutez le camp, Pierre.*

(*Soon to be Sayd, Mahmoud, or any of several North African or mid east name types, depending on proximity to Mantes-la-Jolie.)

Anonymous Ferd June 15, 2013 2:43 PM  

"Dang! You can see the Neanderthal DNA in this species."

Damn Paradox!! I will have nightmares of that women!!

Blogger Vox June 15, 2013 3:26 PM  

Mon pauvre monsieur

Oh, did I not mention that I speak French too? Not very well, to be sure, but I do read it. Anyhow, saying it French does not make a naked assertion that I know nothing about biology and genetic science any more substantial than saying it in English. PZ posted again on the subject because I caught him out; you know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

Anonymous Obvious June 15, 2013 4:54 PM  

PZ is an inspiration. I snuck a Ritz cracker into the local Baptist church last weekend. Crushed it under my heel in front of the priest and said "how you like that Son of God!" ... everyone stared at me like I was nuts, it was wonderful to feel so liberated from irrational nonsense.

Anonymous O'Reilly June 15, 2013 5:15 PM  

@Revan, @dh

In the post I linked, Beale compares the thugs who beat up the Indian guy on the bus to the French resistance, and says they, or people like them, if you interpret his words more broadly, will be looked upon as heroes in the future. Either way, I'm not in any way mischaracterizing his words by saying he wrote a post cheering on racist thugs who beat up a guy on a bus in Manchester.

Don't believe me? Read through the post yourself.

And that's about all I have to say on that.

Anonymous GreyS June 15, 2013 5:23 PM  

"PZ is an inspiration. I snuck a Ritz cracker into the local Baptist church last weekend. Crushed it under my heel in front of the priest and said "how you like that Son of God!" ... everyone stared at me like I was nuts, it was wonderful to feel so liberated from irrational nonsense."

I bet that Baptist priest was pretty upset, huh? I know how the Baptists get all uptight when you question their belief in the Real Presence.


Anonymous kh123 June 15, 2013 5:36 PM  

"And that's about all I have to say on that."

Alright, Forrest.

Anonymous Koanic June 16, 2013 4:30 AM  

One would properly say, "But certainly genetic differences between individuals of different races are larger than genetic differences between siblings."

The anti-race equalist argument hinges on an invalid comparison - two particular objects will always have more particular differences than two classes of objects.

Anonymous The CronoLink June 16, 2013 6:12 AM  

"you know it, I know it, everyone knows it"

We know it. The Chinese know that we know it. But we make-believe that we don't know it and the Chinese make-believe that they believe that we don't know it, but know that we know it. Everybody knows it.

....man, I should go and watch Above the Law.

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