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Wednesday, June 26, 2013

Amend or go home

Remember when all the progressives and moderates were saying that a Defense of Marriage Amendment was unnecessary because Congress passed a law?  Yeah, well, they lied:
A divided U.S. Supreme Court overturned the federal law that defines marriage as a heterosexual union, saying it violates the rights of married gay couples by denying them government benefits.
Between legalizing abortion and the government dismantling of marriage, the USA has now officially entered Sodom and Gomorrah territory.   I wouldn't put too much confidence in that "God bless America" notion.  The best-case scenario is that He's not paying attention. Following American politics these days feels like watching Gibbon on fast-forward; an imperial decline and fall measured in years rather than centuries.

I find it remarkable that Republicans still bother passing this sort of law when it has been clear since at least 1973 that the Supreme Court will simply overturn anything that is effectively conservative. Amend or don't bother.

UPDATE: And they effectively overturned Proposition 8 in California by refusing to hear it.  Taken together, these two "rulings" make it official: American democracy is entirely dead.
The court avoided a ruling on the merits in a second gay-marriage case involving California's Proposition 8 ban on gay marriage, saying that both the Supreme Court and a federal appeals court lacked jurisdiction to hear the case. That means a federal district court's ruling striking down Proposition 8 stands, which could clear the way for same-sex marriage to resume in California.
Notice how the Supreme Court will jump in and wave the Constitution whenever it wants to override something, but turn around and claim it has no jurisdiction whenever it wants to leave a lower court decision intact.  Pass a law, pass a referendum, it doesn't matter.  The black robes now rule.

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242 Comments:

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Anonymous The other skeptic June 26, 2013 10:50 AM  

I always thought that DOMA would be overturned, that's why I signed it into law and I didn't have sex with that woman (if sex is defined as inserting my penis into her vagina.)

OpenID newrebeluniv June 26, 2013 10:50 AM  

I take particular notice that the Supreme Court NEVER rules that the federal government didn't have authority to decree anything about marriage one way or the other. The Constitution doesn't grant the federal government any say about marriage or family relationships. Nor is there any compelling need to create such a power.

--Hale

Anonymous MH June 26, 2013 10:51 AM  

Polygyny FTW!

Anonymous Michael Maier June 26, 2013 10:56 AM  

GAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!

And even if they make it a damned (sic) crime, I will say this homo nonsense is GAY and more retarded than a really retarded thing.

Blogger Nate June 26, 2013 10:57 AM  

Where is the moron that said Congress could outlaw the Constitution?

Anonymous Noah B. June 26, 2013 10:59 AM  

"Where is the moron that said Congress could outlaw the Constitution?"

With any luck he's playing golf today.

Anonymous Mike M. June 26, 2013 11:01 AM  

Amend...and while we're at it, demolish the Supreme Court building and go back to having SCOTUS in offices in the Capitol.

The courts need a lesson in humility.

Anonymous The other skeptic June 26, 2013 11:01 AM  

Speaking of decline was the growth in the GDP even 1.8%.

Anonymous Ruth Bader Ginsberg June 26, 2013 11:02 AM  

ME TYPING OUT NEW RIGHTS!!!

Blogger Logos June 26, 2013 11:05 AM  

It is outrageous, but the greater outrage is the destruction of California's sovereign right to refrain from blessing homosexual unions. The very notion that the Constitution -- which allowed states to criminalize homosexual behavior until 2003 -- requires a state to bless homosexual unions is both insane and tyrannical, and the Court should have gone out of its way to snuff the 9th Circuit. We are living under a leftist dictatorship. Those of us who care about preserving America must come to grips with the fact that America no longer exists as a nation; it exists only as a memory and an idea, and we will have to get our hands dirty if we want to fight for it. The political system will not fight for America, for the system is America's enemy.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 11:06 AM  

DOMA would be a useful tool as a hold over to amendment. It's been 20 years.

The problem is the moment was 1996 to get this done. Now it would never pass anywhere, most likely.

Anonymous The other skeptic June 26, 2013 11:06 AM  

Can inventing.

Anonymous Josh June 26, 2013 11:07 AM  

I CAN PENUMBRAING!

Anonymous Sigyn June 26, 2013 11:08 AM  

So, does this alter anyone's estimates of how long before TSHTF?

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 11:08 AM  

Many who claim Clinton to be an idiot can now sit back and watch his total vindication. He entirely neutered the House GOP on this in 1996 with DOMA, and the took the momentum and issue off the table. Triangulation.

Anonymous Josh June 26, 2013 11:09 AM  

THIS IS WHY WE SHOULD HAVE VOTED FOR JOHN MCCAIN AND MITT ROMNEY!

Anonymous CunningDove June 26, 2013 11:09 AM  

The truth is, DOMA would not get enough votes to be added as an Amendment to the Constitution. The USA is too divided these days. California is a great example of that division. You have the legislature that is liberal & the population that is not. Prop 8 passed in a popular vote. But the Legislature didn't want to enforce it... so, now the SCOTUS has given them the "cover of law" to ignore a law passed by the electorate of California. That aristocracy theory is starting to look more & more plausible every day.

Anonymous JartStar June 26, 2013 11:10 AM  

dh You are a non-traditional leftist, so what's your view on state sanctioned gay marriage is a good thing for society?

Anonymous VD June 26, 2013 11:11 AM  

The problem is the moment was 1996 to get this done. Now it would never pass anywhere, most likely.

It was a delaying strategy and some of us recognized that at the time. Of course, the Republicans, being the Stupid Party, bought the Clintonian line. However, it could still pass with the help of the new vibrant voters; Africans and Muslims don't tend to favor homosexuals.

Anonymous Sigyn June 26, 2013 11:12 AM  

The problem is the moment was 1996 to get this done.

They've had a lot of moments to get a lot of things done, and I didn't see any doing. The only logical conclusion is that they don't want to get any doing done. If they'd meant to get any doing done, they'd have done did do it.

...Oh God, what did His Lordship put in this drink?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 June 26, 2013 11:12 AM  

The Supreme Court exists to rubber-stamp any and all unconstitutional acts of Congress or executive actions, save for laws or actions that are socially conservative. This is why it was ridiculous to even think that they would overturn the Affordable Healthcare Act or rule on the side of the oppressed minority in Kelo v. New London.

The court system exists to give the illusion to the American people that they have a check on government tyranny. But people forget that when you enter a courtroom, you are entering government property and as such are subject to their rules and impulses. In this case, the Defense of Marriage Act, which was constitutional, was overturned because of the impulses of five judges and their desire to enter a Statist, secular Utopia.

Basically, for those who have no idea what I'm saying, think of the Supreme Court judges as nothing more than Trekkies who desire to bring about the Star Trek future one civilization-destroying decision at a time.

Anonymous The One June 26, 2013 11:13 AM  

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the Federal Supreme Court left marriage up to the states. So if a state supreme court rules an amendment constitutional, then it is constitutional. If it was otherwise, I believe we would be hearing that all states constitutions outlawing homo marriage had been overturned, rather than focusing strictly on Cali.

Blogger Nate June 26, 2013 11:13 AM  

"Many who claim Clinton to be an idiot can now sit back and watch his total vindication. He entirely neutered the House GOP on this in 1996 with DOMA, and the took the momentum and issue off the table. Triangulation."

I don't know many regular commenters around here that think Clinton was an idiot. Politically speaking... he was the best of his generation. He certainly would've wiped the floor with any of today's politicians on either side.

Blogger Nate June 26, 2013 11:14 AM  

And yet as brilliant as Clinton was... he still couldn't keep his administration from totally shitting itself his whole second term.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 11:16 AM  

I don't know if it's good for society. In so far as it makes the widows of homosexual partners not have to pay $300k in taxes I think it's good for that person.

I think overall if you rely on government to enforce your point of view, you should not be upset when the winds shift and you are on the wrong side of that point of view. The ridiculous benefits conservatives and supporters have heaped into marriage, as a cudgel to persuade people to be married, is way more insulting to me than two homosexuals getting a worthless piece of paper to say their marriage is okay.

The family values crowd that push tax incentives as a way to induce people to marry are inadvertently admitting that women and men are engaged in nothing more than a transaction when they marry. I am not Christian so I can't decide if this is the idea of biblical marriage or not, but I would be surprised if it was. Pushing people into marriage to fulfill a social engineering agenda is not far off from what homosexual activists are doing.

Anonymous Cederq June 26, 2013 11:16 AM  

Scientists say the world is made up of Protons, Neutrons and Electrons...

They forgot to mention Morons

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 11:17 AM  

And yet as brilliant as Clinton was... he still couldn't keep his administration from totally shitting itself his whole second term.

Brilliant isn't the right word. But regardless, he muted the Republican march forward. And he made liberalism look so good that Republicans nominated a liberal to replace him.

Anonymous Alexander June 26, 2013 11:17 AM  

We taking bets yet on when we reach the next checkpoint on that slippery slope that all the liberals feign outrage over? I understand the polygamy ball is already starting to roll and we're well underway in some parts on the de facto marriage where money and the state are concerned, but there's plenty of other avenues for those wishing to undermine traditional western Christendom values.

Anonymous Josh June 26, 2013 11:19 AM  

So...polygamy gets legalized in what, less than five years?

Anonymous dlcarrol June 26, 2013 11:19 AM  

If you have not read it, Scalia's dissent is masterful.

Anonymous DrTorch June 26, 2013 11:21 AM  

America no longer exists as a nation; it exists only as a memory and an idea, and we will have to get our hands dirty if we want to fight for it. The political system will not fight for America, for the system is America's enemy.

I care about liberty for people. Whether that's 'America' or someplace else.

The Christian Church, which played such a huge role in the formation of America, has simply sat back and watched all this happen, with the excuse that "we should only be concerned w/ evangelism, and we should just love people into the Kingdom of God."

That's what disgusts me. It's already happening that Christians can't evangelize in various western nations. So this ignorant, fearful, disobedient approach by the Church will end up thwarting even the one thing that its representatives claim to care about.

Satan hates humans. He hates liberty. He's delighted to see tyranny and oppression. It's not hard to figure out that the Church's sin has given Satan some easy victories in his war on humanity. America was only going to be about liberty as long as it was faithful to Christ (and He was very generous in how little it took to be considered faithful). Now America is diametrically opposed to Christ. The consequences of that are not good.

Anonymous The One June 26, 2013 11:21 AM  

Polygamy is way more biblical than homosexuality. Also a man married to two women is less likely to be divorced because the woman would only get 1/3 rather than one half of the assets. I see a future where men refuse to get married to only one women.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein June 26, 2013 11:22 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous DrTorch June 26, 2013 11:22 AM  

Alexander- not just polygamy. Incest is starting to get positive attention.

Anonymous Will Best June 26, 2013 11:23 AM  

@ The One

What happened was some gays challenged its constitutionality at the Federal level. The State AG decided not to defend and the Federal District judge said, yep unconstitutional per US Constitution.

At which point the people that sponsored prop 8 did a WTF?!?! and appealed the Federal Court decision to the 9th Circuit. What the Supreme Court did was say the sponsors of prop 8 had no standing to challenge even though the CA Sup. Ct. said they did.

The result is prop 8 is ruled unconstitutional via US Constitution by a single federal judge.

Anonymous The One June 26, 2013 11:23 AM  

"That's what disgusts me. It's already happening that Christians can't evangelize in various western nations." Dr Torch

What Western countries are those? Regardless a Christian can preach anywhere they want as long as they are willing to pay the consequences.

Anonymous Josh June 26, 2013 11:24 AM  

So...if a bunch of people get married to each other...like...say...an extended family...wouldn't that eliminate their tax liabilities?

Anonymous The other skeptic June 26, 2013 11:24 AM  

And yet as brilliant as Clinton was... he still couldn't keep his administration from totally shitting itself his whole second term.

But he did have women lining up to suck his cock. That has got to be some sort of victory for the left.

Anonymous The One June 26, 2013 11:26 AM  

@Will Best

Yes, and the Supreme Court said they had no standing and the 9th circuit had no standing so the STATE court decision stands. I don't believe prop 8 was ruled at on the Federal level. As I said if it was, then ALL state amendments should now be unconstitutional, but I don't hear about that in the media anywhere.

* I could be wrong. I am not a lawyer.

Anonymous The other skeptic June 26, 2013 11:27 AM  

Alexander- not just polygamy. Incest is starting to get positive attention.

And then there's the My little pony brigade. They must be salivating at the thought.

OpenID rufusdog June 26, 2013 11:28 AM  

What a mess. Liberals applauding today will be crying in their hands when the reaping begins.

My preacher gave a sermon once and said the order of one’s life should be.

1. God
2. Country
3. Family

One of the few times I thought he was completely wrong. This country wouldn’t even make my top three, much less come before my family.

Anonymous Will Best June 26, 2013 11:29 AM  

@ dh

Yeah I hate the tax code. It should be something like send in 20% of everything over $6,000 x # of people on the form. Everybody needs to be on some form.

Anonymous Laz June 26, 2013 11:32 AM  

The next time you think about abortion as an ill of our society remember that about 70% of abortions in this country are by African-Americans. We would have been overrun a long time ago if not for legal abortions. This is coming from someone who was pro-life until a couple of years ago when SBPDL pointed out the stats.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 11:32 AM  

WB-- but then conservatives wouldn't be able to spend money while claiming to be for small government.

Anonymous Josh June 26, 2013 11:33 AM  

This is coming from someone who was pro-life until a couple of years ago when SBPDL pointed out the stats.

You are pure fucking evil

Blogger Longstreet June 26, 2013 11:33 AM  

"...Oh God, what did His Lordship put in this drink?"

I'll have what she's having.

Anonymous Will Best June 26, 2013 11:34 AM  

@ The One

No the district court ruling stands. The AG "defended" it in the district court and decided not to appeal the ruling. That was done "correctly". It was private citizens responding to the AG's subpar performance that was ruled to be not allowed.

Blogger Longstreet June 26, 2013 11:35 AM  

"...Oh God, what did His Lordship put in this drink?"

I'll have what she's having.

Anonymous The One June 26, 2013 11:35 AM  

@Laz

This is only true because Whites Christians use contraception. Take that away and no one is overrun. Sin requires atonement in blood, apparently the blood of African Americans fetuses.

Anonymous The One June 26, 2013 11:38 AM  

@ Will Best

So doesn't that mean All state amendment banning homosexual marriage can now be challenged and overturned?

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein June 26, 2013 11:42 AM  

A divided U.S. Supreme Court overturned the federal law that defines marriage as a heterosexual union, saying it violates the rights of married gay couples by denying them government benefits.

Thats it!

I'm going to apply for every government benefit, grant, loan, payment that exists.! When denied I'll sue...citing their own rules as discriminatory.

Example: What do you mean, "I can't get a $200,000,000 grant to study manmade global climate stasis because I'm not an academic"?

Discrimination!!!!

So what that I don't have a farm?

No...I don't manufacture electric vehicles, why?

Actually, I'm not Chief Justice of the SCOTUS....What does that have to do with my salary?



Remember, ya'll knew me before I became insanely wealthy......Suckuzzzz!!

Blogger Positive Dennis June 26, 2013 11:43 AM  

I always thought that DOMA was unconstitutional. But the part I thought was unconstitutional they left stand. The constitution says that the states will respect each others laws, thus 50 years ago Nevada had a thriving divorce mill industry, and each state had to allow the divorces.

I do not support gay marriage. From my blog:

http://www.prophecypodcast.com/journal/2012/2/4/discrimination.html

http://www.prophecypodcast.com/journal/2012/1/28/why-i-oppose-same-sex-marriage.html

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia June 26, 2013 11:43 AM  

Billy Beck: "All politics in this country now is just dress rehearsal for civil war."

Blogger Nate June 26, 2013 11:43 AM  

"The next time you think about abortion as an ill of our society remember that about 70% of abortions in this country are by African-Americans. We would have been overrun a long time ago if not for legal abortions. This is coming from someone who was pro-life until a couple of years ago when SBPDL pointed out the stats."

You're the reason Solomon wrote that there is a time for hate.

Blogger Positive Dennis June 26, 2013 11:44 AM  

Btw, the constitution allows for a bill to exempt itself from judicial review. As near as I can tell this provision has never been invoked, just as the tenth amendment has always been ignored, right from the beginning.

Anonymous The One June 26, 2013 11:46 AM  

"The next time you think about abortion as an ill of our society remember that about 70% of abortions in this country are by African-Americans. We would have been overrun a long time ago if not for legal abortions. This is coming from someone who was pro-life until a couple of years ago when SBPDL pointed out the stats."

You're the reason Solomon wrote that there is a time for hate.

That is an awesome response Nate. What's funny is that after a few minutes in hell, Laz will be burned BLACK. How is that for irony

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia June 26, 2013 11:47 AM  

OT but in line with our New Amerika:

California Schools to Train Kids to Sell ObamaCare

Anonymous JartStar June 26, 2013 11:51 AM  

What is interesting is that this issue has been truly driven by the Millennials and is arguably their first big political and societal win, even over Obama. It's possible that this will be a life long badge of honor for them like Civil Rights is for the Boomers.

It also means that American Christianity (perhaps outside of Catholicism) is going to look very much like Western Europe's Christianity in a generation. Instead of empty cathedrals I empty mega-churches?

OpenID rufusdog June 26, 2013 11:51 AM  

@Laz

The next time you think about murder as an ill of our society remember that about 70% of murders in this country are by African-Americans. We would have been overrun a long time ago if not for legal murder. This is coming from someone who wasn’t a soulless racist douchebag until a couple of years ago when SBPDL pointed out the stats. Now I’m totally down with murder.

Blogger Nate June 26, 2013 11:54 AM  

"Brilliant isn't the right word. But regardless, he muted the Republican march forward. And he made liberalism look so good that Republicans nominated a liberal to replace him."

No. What he did was popularize the strategy of adopting your opponent's best position to neuter him. For Dubya it was education. He out-liberaled Gore on education and it created a huge problem for the left.. who were at the time... used to beating the education drum and claiming that republicans hated education. Dubya, pulled a clinton, and denied them that tactic... and it hurt Gore badly.

The fact is Dubya was also a fantastic politician. The left can never admit that though.

Anonymous Brazilian Goat June 26, 2013 11:54 AM  

Hey, they forgot about me.

Anonymous Alabamarob June 26, 2013 11:57 AM  

Vox - "Between legalizing abortion and the government dismantling of marriage, the USA has now officially entered Sodom and Gomorrah territory. I wouldn't put too much confidence in that "God bless America" notion."

I am distressed in these turns of events (and others) as well and have wondered the same notion. My heart is heavy and I admit that this 4th of July may pass in a more somber note than celebration. I fear God will have to allow His judgement on us as we love our "progressiveness" in being so enlightened, and we revel in the sin we have made "legal" and acceptable. Yes, I know He can and will work in the hearts of individuals and His free gift of salvation through Christ is most assuredly still available to those who seek Him. But we seem to be at the point where like S & G we openly knock on the door and proudly admit and play in our sin and ask for more, more sin and more acceptance of our un-Godly behavior.

Anonymous zapbrannigan1 June 26, 2013 11:59 AM  

"I think overall if you rely on government to enforce your point of view, you should not be upset when the winds shift and you are on the wrong side of that point of view."

@dh

I agree. The problem is that so much of the progressive point of view (frankly almost all it) is built upon brute government enforcement, but your side never seems to lose and have to eat that shit sandwich. When polled with carefully non-partisan questions, clear majorities of the American people are:

- Against late-term abortion, with a new slim majority against the practice altogether
- In favor of traditional marriage
- Uncaring about or hostile to climate change schemes
- In favor of right-to-work laws
- In favor of private property rights
- Against affirmative action
- Against gun control
- In favor of limits placed upon entitlements

Nearly all of these policies of the federal government (entitlements excepted) are being enacted and upheld by a relatively narrow elite with outsized power and influence in the media and government. I fully understand that some of these points of view are contradictory (i.e. citizens say they want to cut entitlement spending but then can't name a single program they would like to cut). However, the point is that many of the laws governing these policies are in place in OPPOSITION to the desires of a modest majority of the American people. They exist only by force of the federal government. And it's clear that none of these laws will ever be overturned.

So, when you say that conservatives/libertarians should just play by the rules of the game and not be upset when things don't go their way leaves me cold. Because progressives are playing the same game and things almost ALWAYS go their way.

In short: You can be a conservative and be right, or you can be a progressive and you can win.

Blogger IM2L844 June 26, 2013 12:00 PM  

I don't have too much of a problem with this. As far as I'm concerned, marriage as defined by the government is nothing more than a legal contract between two parties. Secular ceremonies are what they are; memorializations of government sanctioned legal contracts. That's all.

What I have a problem with is government trying to force religious institutions to invent and perform religious ceremonies that inherently insinuate that God sanctions homosexual marriage.

Anonymous Noah B. June 26, 2013 12:02 PM  

"What I have a problem with is government trying to force religious institutions to invent and perform religious ceremonies that inherently insinuate that God sanctions homosexual marriage."

With this ruling, that's about a week away.

Anonymous mattos June 26, 2013 12:02 PM  

I don't harbor any illusions that the justices would have taken a states rights stance had the law legalized homo marriage, but to the extent that the opinion finds that the definition of marriage is a state issue I agree with it. I don't think the constitution lets the fed gov force any definition of marriage on the states. I've only read the syllabus so far.

Anonymous RINO June 26, 2013 12:03 PM  

We're witnessing the impressively fast death of traditionalists and conservatives. Just think about what has happened in the past few years .. ObamaCare upheld, DOMA struck down, and now immigration reform is iminent.

Corrupt progressive presidents and social decadence are the new norms, get used to it.

Blogger Joshua_D June 26, 2013 12:08 PM  

Josh June 26, 2013 11:09 AM

THIS IS WHY WE SHOULD HAVE VOTED FOR JOHN MCCAIN AND MITT ROMNEY!


Love it.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 June 26, 2013 12:12 PM  

To be fair, the last of the Romans to realize their civilization lay in ruins were the ones at the orgy.
So too is it today...

Anonymous Jack Amok June 26, 2013 12:14 PM  

The court avoided a ruling on the merits in a second gay-marriage case involving California's Proposition 8 ban on gay marriage, saying that both the Supreme Court and a federal appeals court lacked jurisdiction to hear the case. That means a federal district court's ruling striking down Proposition 8 stands,

How the fuck can the US Supreme Court and a federal appeals court lack jurisdiction over a federal district court? That just makes no sense. They're not even trying to hide it any more, they're just making shit up.

Anonymous Josh June 26, 2013 12:15 PM  

What I have a problem with is government trying to force religious institutions to invent and perform religious ceremonies that inherently insinuate that God sanctions homosexual marriage.

That's already happening.

Anonymous Crispy June 26, 2013 12:16 PM  

it could still pass with the help of the new vibrant voters; Africans and Muslims don't tend to favor homosexuals.

Perhaps, but they've all been trained to salivate when the (D) symbol is shown and growl when the (R) symbol is shown (or implied).

American democracy is entirely dead.

This was evident at the special session of the Texas Senate last night which was to decide some laws to make abortuaries a little safer for the mothers who enter them. After an official filibuster by the Democrats was scotched (she went off-topic three times), the monkeys shrieking and flinging poo (figuratively speaking) disrupted the final vote until after the midnight finish time of the session. Though the measure passed 19-10, the mobocracy essentially overrode the "democracy" they claim to cherish.

Anonymous Mr. Nightstick June 26, 2013 12:16 PM  

You have to die before you can be resurrected.

Blogger IM2L844 June 26, 2013 12:17 PM  

With this ruling, that's about a week away.

I would be fine if the state didn't even recognize religious marriages as binding legal contracts. Homos who want state sanction contracts can have them and non-sexually-deviant (normal) people who want both can have them as well.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 12:19 PM  

zap--

Regarding what "The people want", I think this is a dangerous and not helpful area to consider. Your list:

- Against late-term abortion, with a new slim majority against the practice altogether
- In favor of traditional marriage
- Uncaring about or hostile to climate change schemes
- In favor of right-to-work laws
- In favor of private property rights
- Against affirmative action
- Against gun control
- In favor of limits placed upon entitlements


So, a good example is "gun control". If you poll people do you favor gun control, probably get a negative response. Americans like guns. If you poll people, "do you favor background checks before buying guns", you get a huge positive response, well over a super majority. When you poll people "do you think that Congress should approve the background check law", you get huge positives. But both of those positives are because the people being asked don't even realize we already background check laws. When you ask them "Do you favor expanding background check laws so that they are universal" you get another huge positive response. When you "Do you favor making gun buyers at gun shows first pass an FBI background check?", you get a split decision.

This is why "partisian" vs. "non-partisan" falls apart. It's largely the same thing across tthe board. On abortion: "Do you favor or oppose as the so called late-term abortion, which involves partially delivery and then surgically terminating the life of an otherwise healthy baby?" you get huge negatives. If you ask: "Do you favor women and doctors making decisions affecting a women's pregnancy?" you get a split decision.

You also have situations where, say, you ask: "Do you favor or oppose Obamacare?" And the answer is 65/35 against. Okay, but when you drill into the question, you find that it's 15% who favor single payer and are opposed, 20% who favor market-based only with no insurance, and the rest who don't really know what it is.

There are other examples on your list where I don't think your premise is the case. I have seen most or all of the public polling on traditional/gay marriage, and I don't think you could back up your claim that when asked non-partisan question, people support traditional marriage. But I may be out of date on that one.

You also have the action barrier to consider. Saying "do you favor traditional marriage?" is one thing, asking a person, "do you favor taking affirmative legal action to bar homosexuals from marriage?", or "Do you favor banning homosexual marriage via a constitutional amendment?" is another thing. Many people in the US have a fairly hands off approach to liberties, and many of them are libertarians or libertines of various stripes.

I agree with your general point that the country is moving left. I believe it's been happening for a long time.

I also think you should not read to much into any given court opinion. I've just finished reading the opinion of the Court, and Scalia's dissent (There are two others for me to read), and this strikes me as a different ruling than what people think by and large. I don't happen to think Scalia's dissent is masterful. I think he's essentially a politican, like a few others on the court. Yesterday he found no problem in activism in overturning Congress's actions because he didn't like their reasoning. Today he says we can't do that which he just did yesterday.

Any given court case has a lot of factors in play, and the popular opinion of what a ruling says is often not aligned with what it really says.

Anonymous Noah B. June 26, 2013 12:20 PM  

"I would be fine if the state didn't even recognize religious marriages as binding legal contracts."

I very much agree with this sentiment. The state should have as little involvement in our lives as possible.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 12:23 PM  

This was evident at the special session of the Texas Senate last night which was to decide some laws to make abortuaries a little safer for the mothers who enter them. After an official filibuster by the Democrats was scotched (she went off-topic three times), the monkeys shrieking and flinging poo (figuratively speaking) disrupted the final vote until after the midnight finish time of the session. Though the measure passed 19-10, the mobocracy essentially overrode the "democracy" they claim to cherish.

Senate (and the Texas Senate) is not a democratic organization. It is a deliberative body. The Democrat filibustering did not go off-topic three times, she went off two times, one of the warnings was for receiving assistance. Under the rules the debate was not properly ended, and the ruckus was raised when the presiding officer tried to take a point of order not in line with the rules. The law and order Republicans had to go behind closed doors for hours and then admitted that simply changing the timestamp to make the vote legal does make it so.

Anonymous mattos June 26, 2013 12:28 PM  

It was an issue of who was doing the appealing. If the CA gov had been appealing they would have heard it but they found that the proponents of prop 8 didn't have standing. I think that quote is misreading it. I think the result is that whereever the CA gov decided to quit appealing it where it will sit.

Blogger James Dixon June 26, 2013 12:29 PM  

> I don't know many regular commenters around here that think Clinton was an idiot. Politically speaking... he was the best of his generation.

Agreed. Those of us over 40 have had the "pleasure" of seeing two of the best politicians who ever lived in Reagan and Clinton.

> Pushing people into marriage to fulfill a social engineering agenda is not far off from what homosexual activists are doing.

You know, dh, if you keep this up you're going to be considered a libertarian whether you admit to it or not. :)

> This country wouldn’t even make my top three, much less come before my family.

Absolutely. It doesn't even come before friendship.

Anonymous Sigyn June 26, 2013 12:31 PM  

I'll have what she's having.

When I figure out what it is, I'll let you know.

I think it's giving me synesthesia. When His Lordship tried to figure out what part of my back is causing my problem, I saw yellow and tasted tomato sauce. It was awesome.

And now I want tacos with sour cream. This whole thing makes no sense. Maybe I'll wake up and discover this thread was all a fever dream.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 26, 2013 12:32 PM  

Amend or go home? Nah, I disagree. Doesn't matter, pass all the amendments you want, if you still elect liberals, you'll get liberal policies. Liberals don't believe in the rule of law, that's just a convenient tool for them to use against more civilized people.

Anonymous Jack Amok June 26, 2013 12:35 PM  

It was an issue of who was doing the appealing. If the CA gov...

Bullshit. Yes, yes, that's the hamster food they used, but it's complete bullshit. Prop 8 was voted on and passed by the voters of CA. Any one of those CA voters has standing to claim injury as their vote was nullified by a federal court.

Blogger IM2L844 June 26, 2013 12:38 PM  

That's already happening.

I know! ...the dirty rotten bastards.

I see this as a very simple problem with very simple solutions. It's not complicated.

Anonymous FP June 26, 2013 12:40 PM  

"In so far as it makes the widows of homosexual partners not have to pay $300k in taxes I think it's good for that person."

Sure, sure. Radical notion here DH, but why don't we just abolish estate/death taxes? Of course, its not about estate taxes, never was.


Anyway, its most amusing that the taco supremes ruled that a CA citizen has no standing over a law they voted on in referendum. Teen girls can get morning after pills easier than cold medicine or have the privacy-pneumbra right to get an abortion but the fed gov can tell you what health insurance to buy or tax you for it.

Anonymous JartStar June 26, 2013 12:43 PM  

Between legalizing abortion and the government dismantling of marriage, the USA has now officially entered Sodom and Gomorrah territory. I wouldn't put too much confidence in that "God bless America" notion. The best-case scenario is that He's not paying attention.

How would we even know if there is no prophet from God that a particular nation who rejects God is being punished for the rejection? There are many countries and nations who have lasted centuries or longer, prospered, and didn't give a flip about biblical principals.

Anonymous mattos June 26, 2013 12:44 PM  

Standing isn't bullshit. And it is pretty well settled that a voter doesnt have standing on that ground. But I'm sure you're right that the judges went that way bc they wanted no avoid hearing it more thank anything. Of note, the 9th had certified the question of standing to the CASC which had said that they did have it.

The decision had a different justice breakdown than the DOMA one if that means anything to you. Scalia was with the majority and either Sotomayor or Kagan was with the dissent.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 12:45 PM  

It was an issue of who was doing the appealing. If the CA gov had been appealing they would have heard it but they found that the proponents of prop 8 didn't have standing. I think that quote is misreading it. I think the result is that whereever the CA gov decided to quit appealing it where it will sit.

Right. An outside group cannot appeal a case which they were not originally a party to. The outside group claimed they were a party because they are in California, and the government of California was doing the appealing. This is the SCOTUS agreeing that you are not a literal part of your government. That's the bigger story that's being missed.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 12:46 PM  

Sure, sure. Radical notion here DH, but why don't we just abolish estate/death taxes? Of course, its not about estate taxes, never was.

Go for it. Replace with consumption tax.

Anonymous Sigyn June 26, 2013 12:46 PM  

taco supremes

Oh, THAT explains why I want tacos with sour cream. I've been programmed.

Man, I really want tacos.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 12:47 PM  

You know, dh, if you keep this up you're going to be considered a libertarian whether you admit to it or not. :)

I think there is a solid 20% of lefists who fear the power of the state enough to want to keep it in check. So far the rest would rather harness the power for their own ends.

Blogger Kentucky Packrat June 26, 2013 12:53 PM  

The law and order Republicans had to go behind closed doors for hours and then admitted that simply changing the timestamp to make the vote legal does make it so.

I don't know the rules in the Texas Senate, but the Speaker of the US House has such god-like powers that he can stop time in the House. If he says it's 11:59, it is. Tip O'Neill and Jim Wright were both famous for this trick.

The New Jersey state assembly did this one too. A committee chair didn't have the votes to pass a bill out of committee, and it was against the rules to stop the vote. They ignored the rules.

Rules are for the little people.

Blogger Nate June 26, 2013 12:55 PM  

"Go for it. Replace with consumption tax."

every keynesian on the planet just had a stroke.

Anonymous zapbrannigan1 June 26, 2013 12:55 PM  

@dh

Thanks for the response.

I disagree with some of what you said (surprise, surprise), but I'm at work and can't respond quickly. Will do so when I can.

Anonymous zen0 June 26, 2013 12:57 PM  

@ Yer Honors:
saying it violates the rights of married gay couples by denying them government benefits.

This was always the Trojan horse.

They really do not have to redefine marriage for homosexuals to designate a beneficiary or partner for their benefits.

Anonymous Gen. Kong June 26, 2013 12:57 PM  

The blackrobes, like D'Won Mocha Messiah, merely carry out the orders of those who own them. I seem to recall that the issue was actually decided at a Lambeth conference two decades ago. Every single western "democracy" has followed suit. Sodomite marriage has even been imposed in places like Mexico and Argentina. This is merely the beginning. Do you think the Sodomites are going to stop here? Next up will be a massive lawfare campaign against all churches (mosques and synagogues will naturally be exempt) who refuse to marry Sodomites. As Ann Barnhardt and others have pointed out, Gramsci's legions have marched through the church itself. They basically now control the institutional churches, even the ostensibly "conservative" ones like the Southern Baptists. It's amusing to see all the "conservatives" huffing and puffing when they can't even kick the spawn of Satan out of their own churches. I expect that DOMA has indeed worked just the way it was intended to. It was written by Repukes after all. It's even worse than Gibbon on fast-forward.

Blogger IM2L844 June 26, 2013 12:59 PM  

You know, dh, if you keep this up you're going to be considered a libertarian whether you admit to it or not.

I think dh is even smart enough to start believing in God sooner or later. We'll see. I would really enjoy having conversations with dh in the afterlife where we could say things like, "Hey, remember that one idiot that called himself 'Obvious' on Vox's blog? That was funny."

Anonymous Jack Amok June 26, 2013 1:00 PM  

This is the SCOTUS agreeing that you are not a literal part of your government. That's the bigger story that's being missed.

Exactly. I guess they didn't get the memo from Obama that government is just how we get together to do things.

Or maybe he didn't mean the same "we" as in "We the People..."


Anonymous Cinco June 26, 2013 1:03 PM  

I would like to announce that I am going to be marrying my second wife this weekend. .. I blame the republicans for bending over and taking it from the supreme court.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 1:03 PM  

Rules are for the little people.

Thats the way they do it, for sure. It's one of hte many interesting things that technology is opening up. One blog from earlier today had the problem with Republicans being that the vote recording system they use in the Texas Senate captures votes electronically from their voting stations. The stamp stamp at the end of the vote is electronically recorded. They were trying to find someone who could figure out how to change the electronic timestamp, but apparently just settled for editing the web page where the results are shown. And then they got cold feet and admitted defeat - the vote was not completed before the end of the session.

EIther you are going to have a government that respects minority rights to debate and fillibuster or not. Just call it off.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 1:04 PM  

Nate, what does this have to do with Keynesian economics? I had not thought it was related.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 1:06 PM  

I think dh is even smart enough to start believing in God sooner or later. We'll see. I would really enjoy having conversations with dh in the afterlife where we could say things like, "Hey, remember that one idiot that called himself 'Obvious' on Vox's blog? That was funny."

I have started meeting with a group for ex-Catholics and doing very light bible meetings. I was born Orthodox but raised and educated Catholic. Hope springs eternal. Bible study is much more interesting as a discussion on the history of the the book so far.

Blogger Galt-in-Da-Box June 26, 2013 1:16 PM  

There's a bit more Vaticanism that finally got evacuated from the American system.
As a libertarian, I don't believe government has the right to say who can or can't be stupid enough to marry.
If you feeeeeel you need government to legitimize your polytheistic spiritualism-based dogma, it's quite possibly illegitimate to begin with.

Anonymous Gx1080 June 26, 2013 1:34 PM  

@dh

You know, people push marriage for a very, very simple reason:

Demographics. Matter. Specially if you want demographics of the "non-raised-by-single-moms" kind. Is obvious that leftists know that, so don't be shy.

@The One

If you want a place that has "Big Men" hoarding up the women and men killing each other for a chance to be the next "Big Man", in other words, the natural conclusion to polygamy, you can pick any Muslim country available.

Anonymous redsash June 26, 2013 1:35 PM  

Meanwhile, Putin and his United Russia party are passing laws making it a criminal offense to promote and/or provide homosexual propaganda. Meanwhile, Putin is protecting an American who is trying to protect our 4th amendment rights by shedding light on those who would abuse those rights as opposed to McCain and Graham who are calling for Snowden's death.

I think it is more than apparent to even the most unlearned and biased American Christian which nation God would bless. I was hoping that my escape country would be a southern state who sought freedom, liberty, and independence, or maybe a laid back Caribbean nation with a Christian culture. It is looking more and more likely that I'll have to keep my thermals packed.

Blogger James Dixon June 26, 2013 1:40 PM  

> I think there is a solid 20% of lefists who fear the power of the state enough to want to keep it in check.

I'm afraid you're an optimist there, dh. I'd guess it's less than 5%. Even more unfortunate, the percentage of repubs is probably about the same. I'd love to be wrong on both counts and see a true limited government party started up by the disenfranchised of both major parties, but I'm not holding my breath.

Blogger James Dixon June 26, 2013 1:43 PM  

> I have started meeting with a group for ex-Catholics and doing very light bible meetings.

Excellent news.

Anonymous Peter June 26, 2013 1:44 PM  

The One: "Polygamy is way more biblical than homosexuality."

Absolutely. The Catholic Church teaches that polygamy is not permitted presently by the Church, but could be allowed at any time if there were grave reasons to do so.

She points out that God allowed polygamy in the Old Covenant, and that it is only sinful today because the Church has banned it.

Anonymous EoA June 26, 2013 1:45 PM  

SCALIA: Kennedy Has Declared Us 'Enemies of the Human Race'... (He's talking about YOU...)

http://www.nationaljournal.com/domesticpolicy/scalia-high-handed-kennedy-has-declared-us-enemies-of-the-human-race-20130626

"In the majority's telling, this story is black-and-white: Hate your neighbor or come along with us. "

Blogger IM2L844 June 26, 2013 1:46 PM  

a group for ex-Catholics

I have a great deal of respect for the unwavering resolve and reverence for God displayed by some individual Catholics over the centuries. My wife was raised as a Catholic...all girl's school and everything. She turned out alright.

Blogger Positive Dennis June 26, 2013 1:46 PM  

Redsash, I am eligible for citizenship in the Russain federation, we leave next month, but we will return, this time.

Anonymous Democrat, RE: Bush v. Gore June 26, 2013 1:47 PM  

EVERY VOTE MUST COUNT!!!!!!!

Anonymous Machavelli June 26, 2013 1:54 PM  

I say we raise $10,000, and pay it to the first homo couple who try to get "married" in a Mosque.

Time to fight fire with fire, sick the muslims on the queers... and DOJ against both...

Anonymous Writers Gawking At Vox June 26, 2013 2:20 PM  

"I find it remarkable that Republicans still bother passing this sort of law when it has been clear since at least 1973 that the Supreme Court will simply overturn anything that is effectively conservative. Amend or don't bother."

Vox, can define "conservative" and does it have anything to do with the origins of Science Fiction??

OpenID ZT June 26, 2013 2:21 PM  

I would have much preferred they say "The government has no business in the marriage game" and then nullify the current marriage licensing laws.

As it stands this discussion is exactly what I have been telling Christian friends. You have looked to the Government to use force to make people do what you that was right. Now the tables are turned people are going to use the Government to make you do what they want and you set the precedent to do it.

OpenID rufusdog June 26, 2013 2:25 PM  

have a great deal of respect for the unwavering resolve and reverence for God displayed by some individual Catholics over the centuries. My wife was raised as a Catholic...all girl's school and everything. She turned out alright.

+1, I also appreciate the robust intellectual thought life some Catholics have.

I have yet to hear a Catholic sermon I thought was good or meet a Catholic priest who didn’t strike me as a complete effeminate pussy, but ya, I have come around to respect Catholics more than I used to.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 2:32 PM  

I have a great deal of respect for the unwavering resolve and reverence for God displayed by some individual Catholics over the centuries. My wife was raised as a Catholic...all girl's school and everything. She turned out alright.

Similar. Educated parochial, then Jesuit. In an earlier age I would have been considered well educated - good deal of greek and latin. Many of former class mates are really great role models for Christians.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 2:33 PM  

I would have much preferred they say "The government has no business in the marriage game" and then nullify the current marriage licensing laws.

This would have been even more activist than what they did this term, which was fairly activist.

Anonymous Crispy June 26, 2013 2:34 PM  

Senate (and the Texas Senate) is not a democratic organization. It is a deliberative body.

Representative democracy, polyarchy, whatever.

Were there procedural irregularities? Probably. But relatively minor technicalities, excluding the "overtime" vote. Let's face it, a filibuster exploits technicalities in the rules of debate, so that part was really a contest of who had the better technicalities.

My point was that the howling mob in the gallery disrupted the proceedings and affected the outcome of the deliberation. In other words, a hundred or so loud people overrode the Senators representing 18 million or so Texans.

Anonymous a. christian June 26, 2013 2:37 PM  

"You have looked to the Government to use force to make people do what you that was right."

I did? Can you tell me when us Christians did that? Did it happen before 1974 by chance? If so, then I'm afraid you are full of cowpoop.

Anonymous Crispy June 26, 2013 2:41 PM  

As it stands this discussion is exactly what I have been telling Christian friends. You have looked to the Government to use force to make people do what you that was right.

Ditto. The USCCB were 100% behind Pelosicare until they found that it would be used to provide contraception (and arguably abortion). Now they are feeling the sharp sting as the angler sets the hook.

Anonymous dh June 26, 2013 2:48 PM  

Let's face it, a filibuster exploits technicalities in the rules of debate, so that part was really a contest of who had the better technicalities.

Filibuster may be a technicality in some areas, but in other it's an enumerated power of the Senators.

The fact that the mob reacted to the attempt to abuse accepted rules is sort of unsurprising. In the end this is just a stalling tactic.

It's hard to appeal to democratic values, when the entire reason that the 30-day special session was called by Gov. Perry was to exploit a loophole to avoid the 2/3 majority required to end debate. You live by the technicalities, you die by them.

Anonymous Laz June 26, 2013 2:49 PM  

I'm not a soulless racist douchebag, I've just become jaded and pretty much don't like anybody (some more than others). See ya in hell Rufus.

Anonymous wcu June 26, 2013 2:56 PM  

DH: glad to hear you taking these bold steps; may the good Lord bless you in your search.

Anonymous ZT June 26, 2013 2:59 PM  

@a. christian

First if you are a Christian that did not look to the government to make laws that enforced your beliefs on others them my statement doesn't apply to you. Or I as I am a Christian that has not been looking for the government to meter out laws that should be a civil matter and not something deserving the sword of the state. I do not seek violence on people who disagree with me.

However if you are a Christian and you have advocated that the state bring the sword against people that have not violated your property rights but have done something with other people that you don't agree with then yes, you have asked the Government to bring the sword and now someone else is in charge and they are bringing the sword on you.

So which are you?

A. Christian who wants *more* government laws to govern morals? (IE: Shara law would be a good thing, even if it is the Christian/whomever is in power)

B. Christian who wants *less* government laws governing morals? (IE: morals should be left to the civil/community sphere?)

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter June 26, 2013 3:01 PM  

Slowly, they let the cat out of the bag:

http://glpiggy.net/2013/06/26/now-you-tell-us/

Anonymous a. christian June 26, 2013 3:04 PM  

ZT: You dig up Emperor Constantine and bitch at him, why don't you? Or maybe some unknown Anglo-Saxon tribesmen that came up with the common law? Seriously, where do you think the marriage laws came from?

Murder is immoral. I believe stealing is prohibited by the 10 Commandments. Uh oh... are you saying you're in favor of murder and theft?

Anonymous a. christian June 26, 2013 3:06 PM  

ZT: What if want to marry my first cousin who is 6 years old, while also marrying myself? You gonna use your evil sword and violence to prevent me? C'mon now, if you're a zealot at least try to be consistent, OK?

Anonymous a. christian June 26, 2013 3:08 PM  

OT ... WITNESS: Trayvon Martin called Zimmerman 'creepy ass cracker'... http://drudge.tw/1cneM7r

Anonymous civilServant June 26, 2013 3:10 PM  

I wouldn't put too much confidence in that "God bless America" notion.

Is the Supreme Court America?

Anonymous Anonagain June 26, 2013 3:14 PM  

Slowly, they let the cat out of the bag:

I repeat: Expecting the immoral, insane and vicious to behave morally, sane and civilized is a tactical error.

Anyone who is surprised by the Left is guilty of aiding and abetting these creatures. There is no neutral ground in the war between good and evil.

OpenID rufusdog June 26, 2013 3:41 PM  

Laz,

Well at least your aware of the direction you are headed…perhaps you should reconsider.

There is a line not to cross between understanding that some minorities have suck-ass cultural norms and advocating for murder.

I for one wish black America would pull itself out of the gutter, but that would require understanding that parts of their culture suck and need to be abandoned. Abortion promotes some of the behaviors they need to rid themselves of.

There is no bigger enemy to the black American than the white liberal, but in this bizaro world we live in they think the liberal is there greatest ally.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter June 26, 2013 3:48 PM  

"OT ... WITNESS: Trayvon Martin called Zimmerman 'creepy ass cracker'... http://drudge.tw/1cneM7r"

You posting from Taiwan?

Anonymous ZT June 26, 2013 3:57 PM  

@a. christian.

Firstly I believe in property rights. Both of your examples violates that.

Second, asking the state to bring the sword VS an individual are two different things. You are essentially arguing that only that State can act and that you the individual must think like the state because they made it law.

On the other hand if I have properties rights then I can deny services (freedom of association) to said person who married his 6 year old first cousin. As it stands if law is changed and you not only have to marry them, pay for their abortion AND if you say anything against them you are charged with hate crime.

Third, appealing to authority of Constantine does not make it right either. In fact I am not arguing what is Lawful in God's court I am talking about the effects of making law in man's court.

God's law is not the law of man. If you are auguring that you want a theocracy then spit it out and say it. You would be consistent and frankly I might agree with you. Otherwise if you are looking for man to make laws that follow God's you are going to be disappointed. Unless God writes his law on the hearts of men then men will change the laws of a nation to fit their own desires. Thus if we cannot have a theocracy with God as it's head, then it would be best to have a Government with as little power as possible.

Blogger beerme June 26, 2013 4:02 PM  

Homosexual divorce is going to be hilarious.

On a more serious note, could this be the catalyst for "conservative" states to remove the state from marriage?

Anonymous ZT June 26, 2013 4:16 PM  

@beerme
"On a more serious note, could this be the catalyst for "conservative" states to remove the state from marriage?"

I sure hope so. However the problem is that the Federal government gives benefits massed off of it. May people are not looking to get out of the welfare game and will resist it. The problem with DOMA was that it prevented many homosexuals from having the same tax break that male/female marriages had. People accept more of a beat when money isn't involved. But once money is on the table people can get pretty rabid.


I don't remember if it was VD or Nate or someone else but look for the financial marriages between father and son so that they can avoid death taxes.

Blogger Bogey June 26, 2013 4:19 PM  

I wouldn't put too much confidence in that "God bless America" notion. The best-case scenario is that He's not paying attention. Following American politics these days feels like watching Gibbon on fast-forward; an imperial decline and fall measured in years rather than centuries.

Great quote, I hope he sends us a life preserver in spite of our stupidity.

Blogger Bogey June 26, 2013 4:20 PM  


http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/06/26/national-cathedral-rings-bells-to-cheer-gay-marriage/

This is really the worst.

Anonymous a. christian June 26, 2013 4:22 PM  

"Firstly I believe in property rights."

Where precisely do "property rights" come from?

So back when homo marriage was outlawed, we lived in a theocracy?

And just to be 100% clear, ZT, you are essentially arguing in favor of A) pologomy, and B) the right to marry (and thus have sex) with toddlers?

PS: State != government (does not equal). See: Albert J. Nock

Blogger JDC June 26, 2013 4:22 PM  

What I have a problem with is government trying to force religious institutions to invent and perform religious ceremonies that inherently insinuate that God sanctions homosexual marriage.

Quote from Josh: That's already happening.

Where is this happening?

Anonymous Lysander Spooner June 26, 2013 4:27 PM  

The Black Flag has been raised for quite some time, slitting throats can't be far off.

Marriage has been dead, dead, dead in the US of Amerika since the No Fault Divorce Laws went into effect in the '70s. It is best to do what Benjamin and Deborah Franklin did back in 1730, take a walk in the woods, declare yourselves married in front of your God,and say F*ck the State. Likely, these Black Robed A-Holes will declare it fine and dandy to marry your pet goat. I rather agree with Dr. Suess, in his classic "Green Eggs and Ham" on 'that' one:

"Could you, would you,
with a goat?

I would not,
could not.
with a goat!"


Don't mate the State !!!

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 4:38 PM  

The Supremes are tools of the power elite. The power elite want to reduce population levels and their agenda is you and your family.

The Supreme Court is corrupt, oppressive and illegitimate.

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 4:40 PM  

All their rulings have been and will continue to be anti-life.

Anonymous Josh June 26, 2013 4:46 PM  

Where is this happening?

Vermont and Washington have had several lawsuits against various venues who refused to let a gay couple use the venue for their wedding.

Denmark has passed a law fixing the state church to officiate gay weddings.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner June 26, 2013 4:51 PM  

In fact I have my Deborah and intend to do just that, No Churchian or State sanctioned "Goat Union" for us.

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 4:54 PM  

There is seldom a word about polygamy. Why is that?

Because it is procreative.

The elites consider you a roach. The culture is managed and the masses are manipulated.

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 4:58 PM  

Jaffe memo

Forced sterilization is next.

The wealthy ruling classes don't want THEIR world overcrowded. However they will keep enough of us around to clean their toilets.

Anonymous Catan June 26, 2013 5:03 PM  

There is seldom a word about polygamy. Why is that?

Because it is procreative.


Absolutely. 'Fun' and other meaningless, circle-chasing distractions are to be what is pushed.

If it doesn't disturb them, people want it, it doesn't cause any problems they find issue with, and it pisses off their political opponents, it's on the table.

This is Deconstruction, baby.

Anonymous patrick kelly June 26, 2013 5:06 PM  

"It's hard to appeal to democratic values, when the entire reason that the 30-day special session was called by Gov. Perry was to exploit a loophole to avoid the 2/3 majority required to end debate. You live by the technicalities, you die by them."

It was all theater so both sides can tell the rubes they fought the evil other side and nothing really changes.

Anonymous LES June 26, 2013 5:19 PM  

I just saw the song list for our church service next Sunday:

America
America, the Beautiful
Battle Hymn of the Republic
Star Spangled Banner

and a special solo: God Bless The USA

Truly pathetic in light of the Supreme Court rulings.

Blogger JDC June 26, 2013 5:20 PM  

@Josh - Litigation against innkeepers in VT and IL, and against florists in VT and IL as well as a suit against a Methodist church in NJ that wouldn't allow it's "recreational" land to be used for a same sex celebration was all I could find. I can certainly foresee a future however when lawmakers push all 501c organizations to perform same-sex marriages. Not my church and not my denomination however.

For many churches, the mere threat of lawsuit will cause them to do some radical things (e.g. cease doing weddings all together).

Hell...I'm so sick of weddings I might just refuse to do any - offering hetero couples who want to wed the opportunity to take pictures in the sanctuary (which, IMO is the only reason many people want a church wedding in the first place)...and to please grandma.

Anonymous Will Best June 26, 2013 5:22 PM  

Today the Supreme Court ruled that ordinary citizens have no Federal recourse against their state for failing to enforce the state laws. Presumably that means the Supreme Court will likewise rule that the states have no Federal recourse from citizens who enforce justice.

Anonymous Will Best June 26, 2013 5:28 PM  

I just saw the song list for our church service next Sunday:

America
America, the Beautiful
Battle Hymn of the Republic
Star Spangled Banner

and a special solo: God Bless The USA

Truly pathetic in light of the Supreme Court rulings.


I don't think you can call a chuckwagon dinner show church service

Anonymous kh123 June 26, 2013 5:49 PM  

Oh, I'd say the black telephone will be what the black robes are subservient to; it's what progressives have been ushering in this whole time, like Jews or Christians with the man of perdition. The trick will be to have it apply omnipotently to individuals as well as to large segments of society when necessary. This is where the two unintended travelers will likely converge.

Blogger hadley June 26, 2013 5:49 PM  

And of course, since all religions are equal, polygamy and child marriage are just a few years away.

Why do all the women's magazines still talk about "cheating"? Screwing other people hasn't been grounds for divorce for decades now.

With bisexuals and trisexuals running around it seems so discriminatory to use loaded pejorative terms like "cheating".

How can they call it "cheating" when all you are doing is shopping for your second wife?

And by what right can your first wife prevent you from marrying another wife? And if you DO marry a second wife (or third, or fourth), by what right can your wife take a set percentage of your income?

Things are going to get really strange as the equalitarianists start moving on to the New Frontier.

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 6:10 PM  

"And of course, since all religions are equal, polygamy... [is] just a few years away."



I seriously doubt it. Polygamy is procreative. The promotion of homosexuality is about population reduction guised as "equality". The elites aren't above using psychologically disordered people for their own ends.


Blogger Phoenician June 26, 2013 6:27 PM  

Between legalizing abortion and the government dismantling of marriage, the USA has now officially entered Sodom and Gomorrah territory.

No, dipshit, it entered that a while back. Ezekiel 16:49.

Shit, you're so stupid you don't even know the book you're supposed to follow. What a dipshit!

Blogger Phoenician June 26, 2013 6:30 PM  

UPDATE: And they effectively overturned Proposition 8 in California by refusing to hear it. Taken together, these two "rulings" make it official: American democracy is entirely dead.

Hey, dipshit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States

----
Polls in 2013

A May 9 Washington Post-ABC News poll found that 55% of Americans supported gay marriage while 40% did not.[10]

A March 20–24 CBS News Poll shows that 53% of Americans support same-sex marriage, 39% oppose, and 8% are undecided.[11] The same poll also finds that 33% of Americans who now think same-sex couples should be allowed to legally marry say they once held the opposite view and have changed their opinion.

A March 7–10 Washington Post-ABC News[12] poll shows that 58% of Americans support same-sex marriage while 36% oppose. The poll indicates that 52% of GOP-leaning independents under 50 years old now support gay marriage.[13]

A March Quinnipiac University poll found 47% support and 43% opposed among all voters.[14]

A February Fox News poll indicated that 46% of Americans support same-sex marriage while another 46% oppose it.[15]
----

Are you feeling well? You seem to be tripping on your own dick more and more often since Myers publicly reamed you over your ignorance on evolution...

Anonymous Thales June 26, 2013 6:33 PM  

Right. An outside group cannot appeal a case which they were not originally a party to.

Incorrect, dh. The backers of Prop 8 had all the standing they required to defend the law in the face of a derelict AG. Inside CA, this would be a non-issue: the CA supreme has upheld the right of the people to speak on their own behalf.

That is why this SCOTUS ruling is such a WTF at worse and Reasoning Backward from the Desired Conclusion at worst.

Anonymous Thales June 26, 2013 6:35 PM  

*That is why this SCOTUS ruling is such a WTF at best and Reasoning Backward from the Desired Conclusion at worst.

Anonymous Jeigh Di June 26, 2013 6:37 PM  

I think most people with an interest in eschatology would agree that the United States will be removed as a world power before the Second Coming. The actions of the last several presidents and the American people themselves I believe would support that view.
As Walt Kelly said; "we have met the enemy, and he is us".

Blogger kilo papa June 26, 2013 6:39 PM  

"Children, I know that you eagerly await my second coming. I fear that I must tell, however, that I have just witnessed Rihanna frolicking in a bikini. And my second coming is now well behind me. As a matter of fact, you should probably count numbers 3 through 49 as a done deal.
I promise to keep you posted as to my future comings, as you seem to be so enamoured with them. "-------Jesus Christ, as told to Sarah Palin

Blogger JDC June 26, 2013 6:40 PM  

@Phoenician - Californians passed Prop 8 52% (Yes) to 48% (No). You forgot that one (although I know it wasn't a poll - and polls are important when they say what you want them to say) - nonetheless, there it is.

Anonymous Sensei June 26, 2013 6:44 PM  

Battle Hymn of the Republic

Well we've just established a good chunk of the country where your church is -not- located...

Anonymous Adsignatos D. June 26, 2013 6:55 PM  

*sanctions same-sex marriage*

*needs moar muslims in America*

*resumes watching "Say Yes to The Dress"*

:D

Anonymous patrick kelly June 26, 2013 7:00 PM  

@Phoenician: " ...since Myers publicly reamed you over your ignorance on evolution..."

Oh really?

You musta' missed this:

VoxNMyers1

... and this...

VoxNMyers2

... while you were out doing the real ship dipping.

Anonymous JRL June 26, 2013 7:10 PM  

Homogamy, aka gaymarriage, is a good example of unintended consequences of law.

When folks claim gaymarriage will have absolutely no impact on YOUR life....they are ignorant or lying. If you are in any way required to follow non-discrimination laws that include marriage, you will be materially impacted.

Did those who legislated "thou shalt not discriminate based on marital status" see this one coming?

Blogger kilo papa June 26, 2013 7:50 PM  

"Children, there is no need to fear evolution. As I, your blessed Savior speak, my thoughts of Rihanna's sweet naked ass are evolving into thoughts of Justin Bieber's sweet naked ass.

And yet I remain your one and only blood sacrifice.

Oh shit, is that George Michael in that speedo!?"-------Jesus Christ, locked and loaded.

Anonymous Augustina June 26, 2013 7:53 PM  

We don't live in a democracy anymore. I wonder when we ever did. My first letter to the editor, written over 30 years ago made the point that the supreme court ruling proved we lived in an oligarchy and nothing even approaching a democracy.

I used to think that if we elected enough conservative politicians, that they would appoint good judges and we could turn this thing around. Boy was I ever wrong.

There is no changing the status quo. Not culturally, economically or politically. Margaret Thatcher's ratchet continues ratcheting up.

I have come to the conclusion that trying to work with they system to change things is wrong. It gives legitimacy to a corrupt and evil system, and wastes the time and energy of people. It is essentially believing a lie. We have the duty to tell the truth, and the truth is our culture, government, and economy are corrupt. Telling people that if they vote for the 'right' person, then things will get better is telling an untruth.

People are sheep. When you herd them into a new pen, they bleat loudly and sometimes a few escape. But no matter, those few are rounded up, and the mass of sheep stay in the pen, bleating or not. Eventually, the sheep get used to the new pen and accept it as what was always good and right. Once they settle down, they are ready to be herded to a new pen.

Tell me a major issue in the last 50 years that hasn't gone down this way. There is no fixing this without a major collapse in the status quo.

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 7:55 PM  

It's not about law. It's not about right or wrong. It's about population reduction.

You are the agenda.

Anonymous Augustina June 26, 2013 7:58 PM  

Actually, Godfrey, I don't think it is as much about population reduction as it is about destroying the family as well as the church. Without those two institutions, people are at the mercy of the state. They require the state for everything, and cannot fight against it.

And that is precisely what has happened over the past two generations. Sheeple completely in thrall to the Almighty State.

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 8:02 PM  

That's part of it.

The State crushes the family because it is an alternate loyalty to the State. It destroys the church because it is an alternate authority to the State. It suppresses capitalism because is offers financial independence from the State.

You are the agenda. You have no choice but to fight. They won't just leave you alone.

Anonymous geoff June 26, 2013 8:05 PM  

laz, ur not the only one conflicted on ur responibility to stop black women from controlling said population

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 8:29 PM  

Do you really think it is just a coincidence that homosexuality, a psychological disorder historically effecting approximately only 2% of the population, has been promoted 24/7 for the last 20 years?

Is it just a coincidence the “Ellen” shows up on the magazine rack week after week after week? (By the way, why does she dress like the Frankenstein monster?)

The cultural elites are pushing this for a reason.

Answer: Jaffe memo

Blogger Doorstop June 26, 2013 8:41 PM  

If SSM was actually a civil rights issue, it would be the strangest one ever, considering that the "right" to legally "marry" someone of the same sex has been "denied" to 99.9999% of humanity for almost the entire period of our existence.

In the face of such egregious and universal oppression, I propose that we stop worrying about the remnants and comparatively limited modern occurrences of institutional racism...and the U.S. Supreme Court appears to agree /s

Anonymous Sigyn June 26, 2013 8:48 PM  

The cultural elites are pushing this for a reason.

I tried to point out some weeks ago that the reason was so that people would be afraid to be friends with anyone--you know, because everyone knows you bang the bangable friends, and also rape. More divide-and-conquer goodness.

But you guys laughed and said straight guys wouldn't do gay stuff.

Anonymous Writers Gawking At Vox June 26, 2013 8:54 PM  

"@Phoenician - Californians passed Prop 8 52% (Yes) to 48% (No)."

I'll bet the bigots don't want to see a vote taken now, these years later. My bet? 59% Yes to gay marriage, 41% No to gay marriage.

I know someone working on a piece of Alternative History Fiction in which the bigots take over the U.S. and a major part of their platform is, first passing an amendment outlawing gay marriage and divorce, followed by outlawing sodemy. The book is already contracted and the advance paid. They only question is where to put it: Current Affairs, Science Fiction or Horror. After today, Science Fiction is most likely, but horror most appropriate.

Anonymous Samson J. June 26, 2013 8:57 PM  

They only question is where to put it:

How about: history. You are not a very good troll.

Anonymous kh123 June 26, 2013 9:02 PM  

"sodemy"

Not Tad, apparently.

Anonymous Writers Gawking At Vox June 26, 2013 9:05 PM  

"They only question is where to put it:

How about: history. You are not a very good troll."

It can't be History any more than it could be Current Affairs. It never happened. Hence, Science Fiction or Horror. Someone else here suggested "Christian Literature". That's kinda funny.

Anonymous Augustina June 26, 2013 9:09 PM  

Writer Gawking at Vox, so you tell us the sheep have now acclimated to their new pen. Pray tell us, oh master, what will our next pen be?

Godfrey, yes we have to fight it, but how? The political system is corrupt, the economic system is a corrupt basket case. This whole mess is gonna blow, and soon. It can't come soon enough for me.

When the status quo is well and truly dead, only then will our hands and feet be unbound and we can truly fight it. Currently, we fight with our hands tied behind our backs, and duct tape over our mouths. We fight it by abiding by the rule of law, being nice and trying to elect politicians who invariably betray us.

Anyone who unbinds themselves and attempts to speak freely is shouted down and ostracized. We literally can't win that way, because the powers that be have decided we shall not win.

When people are no longer invested in the status quo, and begin to see it as a detriment, then they may be open to new (old) ideas. Until then, they will be moved from pen to pen, bleating and confused, but obedient.

Anonymous Writers Gawking At Vox and Augustina June 26, 2013 9:25 PM  

"Anyone who unbinds themselves and attempts to speak freely is shouted down and ostracized. We literally can't win that way, because the powers that be have decided we shall not win."

Sure they are, as I watch Sean Hannity and his Klan speaks freely against gay marriage.

"so you tell us the sheep have now acclimated to their new pen"

No, not quite. The people are simply and finally overcome by the realization that the bigots who claimed homosexuals were dangerous or evil or such were wrong. Not only that, more people know gays and lesbians personally and can personally verify that they are no different than anyone else. The real question the people are asking is, "Why were these bigots so obsessed with sex all these years.

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 9:37 PM  

Bigotry is now the act of living in harmony with reality.

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 9:39 PM  

@Augustina June 26, 2013 9:09 PM
"Godfrey, yes we have to fight it, but how?"



Withdraw your consent and ridicule the ruling classes and their perverse agenda.

Also... breed, have a dozen children or more of you can.

Blogger Phoenician June 26, 2013 9:55 PM  

You musta' missed this:

VoxNMyers1

... and this...

VoxNMyers2


I dunno what's funnier - the dipshit whimpering because he got spanked in public by someone who actually knows the science, or the idiots kissing his ass over his whimpering. Brief clue - since Dipshit was shown to be a complete fool, why exactly would you think citing further ignorant rants from him would be at all convincing?

Anonymous Augustina June 26, 2013 10:05 PM  

Carrie Prejean was ostracized when she spoke against gay "marriage", a position that Dear Leader Obama Himself espoused a mere year or two prior.

Gawking, I think you like to sodomize little puppies and that is the next pen you and your comrades will be leading us into. First, the academics will tell us that sodomizing puppies is normal, and their is a gene for it. Then the mass media will start putting characters that sodomize puppies in their sitcoms. When people protest, they will back off, but return a few years later. Then some municipality or court will legalize puppy sodomizing and people will protest. Referendums will outlaw puppy sodomizing.

The protestors will be characterized as bigots and generally unintelligent and nasty people that polite company should not associate with. This will continue for a few years and then some court will overturn the anti puppy sodomizing referendum.

Weak willed 'churches' will tell us that we should not judge puppy sodomizers, and that they should be welcomed and treated with 'dignity.'

The educrats will push puppy sodomizing as a legitimate activity, and call anyone who opposes a mean bully. The sheep will be told in no uncertain terms that unless they celebrate puppy sodomizing then they are nasty mean bigoted bullies and they don't get to play with the cool kids or get promotions or succeed in business.

Then, fully acclimated to their new puppy-sodomizing-is-good pen the sheep will stop bleating. You will consider that a victory for decent people everywhere.

So tell me, Gawking, how do you feel when you make the puppy squeal? And bleed?

Oh, and by the way, did you get the memo. We are no longer at war with Eurasia, we are now at war with EastAsia. We have always been at war with EastAsia.

Anonymous Fucking Phoenician's Mom June 26, 2013 10:06 PM  

Phoenician:

1) Polls = democracy? Seriously?

2) You books suck and I fucked your mom.

Anonymous Fucking Phoenician's Mom June 26, 2013 10:08 PM  

It barked "Klan" ... good little doggie, here's your cookie.

Why are bigots like Gawking so obsessed with Vox? Because they want to stick him in the bum? You do know Vox is married and prefers vagina, correct?

Blogger Phoenician June 26, 2013 10:10 PM  

"@Phoenician - Californians passed Prop 8 52% (Yes) to 48% (No)."

I'll bet the bigots don't want to see a vote taken now, these years later. My bet? 59% Yes to gay marriage, 41% No to gay marriage.


Yeah, and the funniest thing is that in ten years time, it'll be around 73% pro-gay marriage with "what was the big deal about it anyway?" with the usual 27% loony contingent still screaming about it.

The idiots on this blog know that, which is why they're huffing about "sodomy" now - they have no actual argument, just rationalization for their mindless distaste.

And at least half of them have that distaste because they're denying their own urges - why do you think Dipshit parades around with a homoerotic picture of a big flaming sword held at groin level, if not to attract minions who secretly want him to do them?

Hey, Writers Gawking - check this out

http://jamesworrad.blogspot.co.nz/2013/06/vox-day-schrodingers-spacebunny.html

Anonymous Augustina June 26, 2013 10:10 PM  

Godfrey, I have done so already. 6 kids, and wish I had more.

I now view participating in politics as consent.

But we will need to figure out how to defend ourselves and our culture when the SHTF.

Because they will come after us.

Anonymous Fucking Phony's Mom over and over June 26, 2013 10:14 PM  

"
Yeah, and the funniest thing is that in ten years time, it'll be around "

Yay, the guy who can't selling any books is making predictions.

He's a marketing GENIUS I tell you...

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 10:15 PM  

Homosexuality is a psychological disorder usually traceable to a failed relationship with the same gender parent and typically occurring during the important pubescent years. Homosexuals tend to suffer from arrested sexual development. Homosexuality is a narcissistic psychological disorder and thus difficult to treat. It is self focused.

The power elites want to normalize and promote the behavior because it is not procreative and thus will lead to reduced population levels (see Jaffe memo). Homosexuals are being used. They are merely one of many means to an end.




Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 10:18 PM  

@Writers Gawking At Vox and Augustina


Humility is the path to self-knowledge and understanding.




Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 10:21 PM  

@Augustina June 26, 2013 10:10 PM
"Because they will come after us."


They always have. This is nothing new.

We live in a fallen world. Strive to survive and promote life wherever you can.

Blogger IM2L844 June 26, 2013 10:35 PM  

And at least half of them have that distaste because they're denying their own urges...

Project much? The statistics would indicate that's exactly what you're doing or you're simply delusional.

Anonymous Writers Gawking At Vox and Augustina June 26, 2013 10:39 PM  

"Gawking, I think you like to sodomize little puppies and that is the next pen you and your comrades will be leading us into"

Hey, I take offense at that. I would never sodomize the LITTLE puppies. They are too cute.

Anonymous Writers Gawking At Vox June 26, 2013 10:41 PM  

"Why are bigots like Gawking so obsessed with Vox? Because they want to stick him in the bum? You do know Vox is married and prefers vagina, correct?"

If you'd been reading closer, you'd know I'm not into skinny blokes like Vox. I'm into the big puppies.

Anonymous Godfrey June 26, 2013 10:43 PM  

Keep in mind, the cultural elites aren't just promoting the psychological disorder of homosexuals. They're promoting the psychological disorders of everyone because at their core they are misanthropic. They hate humanity.

Throw your television in the garbage and homeschool your children.

Anonymous Writers Gawking At Vox and Godfrey June 26, 2013 10:55 PM  

"They're promoting the psychological disorders of everyone because at their core they are misanthropic. They hate humanity."

See, now we are getting into relevant territory...Science fiction. Sounds like you are describing some sort of invading alien army seeking infiltrate Humanity until the mothership arrives.

Hates humanity? Name a few members of the "cultural elite" and prove they "hate" humanity. Is the very simple idea that homosexuals ought to be able to marry really a sign someone hates humanity?

I thought Vox's notion that "savage" was defined by someone that didn't know the origins of science fiction was nutbally. It is. But this is well and beyond.

Please, tell us more about the little green men, Godfrey.

Anonymous El Zinky Pinky June 26, 2013 11:00 PM  

Oh, come on, VD. Same sex marriage has been legal in Canada for years and they're doing just fine. The Kardashians have done more damage to marriage than gays ever could. Same thing with government provided health care and drug legalization. America just became a little more like Canada today. It isn't that big of a deal. Peace. Thus spoke Vox's Queer Party Friends.

Blogger IM2L844 June 26, 2013 11:02 PM  

If you'd been reading closer, you'd know I'm not into skinny blokes like Vox. I'm into the big puppies.

I would just like to know, for the record, If you and Phoenician have any intention of ever contributing anything substantive to the discussion or are you just here to antagonize and provoke? Hell, I would settle for some witty repartee for comic relief, but you're both neither clever nor funny.

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