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Friday, June 21, 2013

Spontaneous automotive combustion

The LAPD quickly rules out foul play in the fiery demise of Michael Hastings, investigative reporter:
The Los Angeles Police Department said there appears to be no foul play in the one-vehicle accident that killed journalist Michael Hastings.

The Los Angeles County coroner on Thursday positively identified Hastings as the driver of a Mercedes that crashed on Highland Avenue near Melrose Avenue on Tuesday morning. Hastings' involvement with hot-button stories has led to a variety of conspiracy theories arising on the Internet over his death. But LAPD officials said the incident appears to have been an accident and that no other vehicles were involved. Officials are trying to determine whether there was a mechanical problem with the car. The sources spoke on the condition of anonymity because the case was ongoing....

Hastings was best known for a 2010 Rolling Stone profile that led to the resignation of Gen. Stanley McChrystal. Hastings was a contributing editor to the magazine.
In related news, the Federal Security Service announced that it suspects no foul play in the recent series of Russian emigrant deaths in the United Kingdom.  Has anyone informed the LAPD that it is only in the movies that Mercedes automobiles explode on impact?

Steve Sailer, who lives very close to the scene, appears to have a few doubts himself:
Nothing to see here, folks, move along, nothing to see here. It's just the top investigative journalist of his generation charbroiled in his new Mercedes, so keep moving. Hey, did you hear about Kim Kardashian? Now, that's what I call news.
I wonder if Matt Taibbi is considering a move to Hong Kong?  First Breitbart, now Hastings.  At the very least, he should stay away from Los Angeles.


UPDATE: One of the witnesses said: "It sounded like a bomb going off.  The house shook; the windows were rattling."

Labels:

112 Comments:

Anonymous boomer June 21, 2013 8:58 AM  

kill him first
make car remote control
crash car into tree
blowup and burn evidence

Anonymous Amir Larijani June 21, 2013 9:03 AM  

McChrystal's revenge

Anonymous VD June 21, 2013 9:06 AM  

I don't think you understand, boomer. Did you not see that the LAPD has investigated already?

Blogger IM2L844 June 21, 2013 9:11 AM  

Patterns of coincidences are not necessarily coincidental patterns.

Blogger Shimshon June 21, 2013 9:17 AM  

I commented about this on EPJ. I'm from LA and used to regularly drive in that area for many years. That street is arrow straight, long, divided, and with ample lane widths (check Google Maps and Street View yourself). A single car accident of this severity on that road stretches credulity to the limit.

Anonymous anon123 June 21, 2013 9:18 AM  

Cue ominous Darth Vader intro music in 3, 2, 1...

Anonymous Godfrey June 21, 2013 9:19 AM  

Maybe it was suicide like Aaron Swartz.

Anonymous Snowgal June 21, 2013 9:19 AM  

The Mythbusters did an episode in 2009 demonstrating a vehicle going over a cliff was NOT going to burst into flames unless you shoved it full of explosives (which is how they do it in movies and television). I don't know why this would be any different.

Anonymous boomer June 21, 2013 9:20 AM  

VD yes I did
Like O J this time it really doesn't fit
On impact the engine goes under the vehicle on Mercedes

Anonymous MrGreenMan June 21, 2013 9:20 AM  

You know, these things just happen. I think it was three years back that I was driving along and forced off the expressway for a full expressway closure around noon near the St. Clair border crossing to Canada. Apparently, some very wealthy man who was about to do "something big" based on his pile of hundreds of millions and his connections running an international charity just happened to be returning from Canada at 3 AM, and his car just happened to have a broken accelerator, and he happened to plow through a cement pylon at 140mph and then have the car burn down to nothing before the authorities arrived.

The price of fashion...those expensive cars seem to burn fast and completely.

Anonymous Keep your head down June 21, 2013 9:20 AM  

This brings up an important point. While it is all well and good to point out how dysfunctional our rulers are, at some point the psychological benefit from sitting in the peanut gallery with like-minded folks has to be balanced by the physical risk. What we know (thanks to heroes like Snowden) is likely the tip of the iceberg. And we aren't debating the actions of characters in a novel; these are real sociopaths with real power, who have real ability to act with impunity.

Blogger IM2L844 June 21, 2013 9:21 AM  

"...without him there are great stories that will go untold."

In light of recent events it is interesting to speculate what his digital correspondences of late contained.

Anonymous Susan June 21, 2013 9:21 AM  

Combine this story with the story about the retired whistleblowers coming forth this week regarding the fact that TWA 800 was indeed brought down by an outside force, and you have some very interesting reading for the weekend.

Anonymous boomer June 21, 2013 9:30 AM  

UPDATE
Hastings was investigating how unsafe Mercedes vehicles are. So he crashed it into a tree at very high speeds.

Anonymous Daniel June 21, 2013 9:32 AM  

Stupid officials. It is obviously a mechanical problem. One so bad that it demanded the employment of a fixer.

Anonymous josh June 21, 2013 9:33 AM  

http://gawker.com/here-come-the-michael-hastings-death-conspiracy-theorie-514384339

Hey everyone, gawker says there's nothing to see here and we're all kooks.

Anonymous Daniel June 21, 2013 9:35 AM  

MrGreenMan
"something big" based on his pile of hundreds of millions and his connections running an international charity

It wasn't Little Lebowski Urban Achievers, was it? Because that episode might not entirely support the "no conspiracy" hypothesis...

Anonymous Mr. Pea June 21, 2013 9:38 AM  

WikiLeaks just threw some gasoline onto the conspiracy fire. On Wednesday night, they Tweeted: “Michael Hastings contacted WikiLeaks lawyer Jennifer Robinson just a few hours before he died, saying that the FBI was investigating him.”

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100222652/wikileaks-says-michael-hastings-contacted-it-just-before-his-death-are-they-implying-he-was-murdered/

Blogger IM2L844 June 21, 2013 9:40 AM  

This should send a couple very clear messages to investigative reporters with a reputation for uncovering the dirt. One, that it isn't a stretch for them to assume all of their digital correspondences are being flagged for analysis. Two, stand down.

Anonymous Sigyn June 21, 2013 9:42 AM  

Has anyone informed the LAPD that it is only in the movies that Mercedes automobiles explode on impact?

Yep, they should have put him in a Pinto.

Anonymous Idle Spectator June 21, 2013 9:43 AM  

This brings up an important point. While it is all well and good to point out how dysfunctional our rulers are, at some point the psychological benefit from sitting in the peanut gallery with like-minded folks has to be balanced by the physical risk.

As they say in the ghetto, "officer, nope I dednt see shit."

Anonymous Idle Spectator June 21, 2013 9:46 AM  

This should send a couple very clear messages to investigative reporters with a reputation for uncovering the dirt. One, that it isn't a stretch for them to assume all of their digital correspondences are being flagged for analysis. Two, stand down.

No kidding. Reporters are killed ALL THE TIME in other countries. In the United States and west they are spoiled, because they still believe in the rule of law. That is fast changing with the economic situation.

Anonymous Daniel June 21, 2013 9:48 AM  

Has anyone informed the LAPD that it is only in the movies that Mercedes automobiles explode on impact?

Yep, they should have put him in a Pinto.


I wonder if they brought in Michael Gartner, the old head of NBC News who blew up GMC trucks with incendiary devices to show how unsafe they were, as a consultant...

Anonymous Idle Spectator June 21, 2013 9:51 AM  

I wonder if they brought in Michael Gartner, the old head of NBC News who blew up GMC trucks with incendiary devices to show how unsafe they were, as a consultant...

I believe that documentary was called Unsafe at Any Sleeze.

Anonymous Edjamacator June 21, 2013 9:54 AM  

Has anyone informed the LAPD that it is only in the movies that Mercedes automobiles explode on impact?

Well, you can't be a cop if you're too smart, right?

Anonymous MrGreenMan June 21, 2013 9:56 AM  

Daniel

It wasn't Little Lebowski Urban Achievers, was it? Because that episode might not entirely support the "no conspiracy" hypothesis...

I think he was a Chaldean; there are a lot of them in Michigan, some extremely rich and the rest dirt poor. It stood out because I remember it was an odd car, like the new Acura big one (RL?) that was beaky and unloved, but apparently could accelerate.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner June 21, 2013 10:00 AM  

Michael Hastings, RIP
Andrew Breitbart, RIP
Hunter S. Thompson, RIP

The Empire of Lies' elitist traitors are going to get scattered and splattered, it is just a matter of time.


Anonymous boomer June 21, 2013 10:02 AM  

The problem here is they should of let Abby and the NCIS team investigate this incident.

Anonymous Thales June 21, 2013 10:05 AM  

This is right up there with that old headline I saw years ago, "Husband Kills Self in Altercation with Wife and Her Lover."

Clearly no foul play is involved.

Anonymous Cail Corishev June 21, 2013 10:10 AM  

Way back during the Vince Foster case, I read about how police are supposed to investigate any death as a potential homicide first, especially anything unusual like a suicide. Obviously they don't follow that by the book when an 80-year-old man dies in bed with heart medication on the nightstand, but if there's any sign of anything odd at all, it's important that they rule out foul play while the evidence is still fresh.

Yet, in these politically sensitive cases, it seems like the first cop on the scene declares suicide/accident and starts moving the body/car/weapon and (intentionally or not) destroying evidence left and right. Funny how that happens.

Anonymous Noah B. June 21, 2013 10:13 AM  

Funny, I was reading just a few days ago about the existence of exploits that could allow an attacker to take full control of your vehicle, possibly with the intent to crash it.

But don't worry, that's just a kooky conspiracy theory.

Anonymous Hunsdon June 21, 2013 10:14 AM  

Remember the Auric Goldfinger rule: Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.

Guess it all depends on how you want to draw the lines.

Anonymous Idle Spectator June 21, 2013 10:18 AM  

Hunter S. Thompson, RIP

Oh, come on, that one was definitely a suicide. He used a gun but the drugs over the years were just slower. I'm amazed he made it past 30.

His partner Oscar Zeta Acosta died around 39. He was an amphetamine addict, used too much LSD, and had ulcers that made him vomit blood.

Blogger John Smith June 21, 2013 10:19 AM  

I'm starting to think the vehicle was hit by a Directed Energy Weapon.

Toasted Cars - by Dr. Judy Wood.

In one of her videos she discusses the people jumping from the Towers - they weren't jumping from the heat of a combustion fire - they were jumping from the effects of being micro-waved with a DEW.

That "fire" just isn't right for normal combustion!

Google: Dr Judy Wood The Journal of 9/11 Research

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 June 21, 2013 10:20 AM  

It bears noting that the LA County coroner who performed the autopsy on Brietbart - you know, the guy who died literally on the eve of releasing info that would "bring down Obama" - was killed only a few days after the autopsy, before the report was released, in a freak Arsenic poisoning accident.

Anonymous RedJack June 21, 2013 10:22 AM  

Noah,
I know a few people who will disable all wifi devices (like tire pressure indicators) on their cars for that reason.

Anonymous Cail Corishev June 21, 2013 10:23 AM  

I've had three engine fires (none got out of the engine compartment or caused an explosion). A friend of mine's accelerator got stuck in the floored position and he only avoided tragedy by quickly shifting out of gear.

So these things can happen. But they're very rare (and those were beat-up 1970s cars with lots of shade-tree mechanic work, not a shiny new Mercedes). When something that rare happens to a guy who just happens to have recently pissed off some important people, who's living patterns just happen to have changed in the last week, the odds against really start to stack up.

At this point, if you don't at least consider the possibility of foul play in a case like this, you're trying too hard not to be a conspiracy nut. Some people seem so determined to be above any conspiracy theory that if Edward Snowden were struck down tomorrow by a lump of lead embedding itself into the back of his neck, they'd declare it must have been a stray meteorite.

Anonymous Agent Rogers June 21, 2013 10:24 AM  

Sometimes people just explode. Natural causes.

Anonymous TLM June 21, 2013 10:24 AM  

This was an KGB technique back in the 90's. They'd recon a guys driving habits, find a place at night where the road was dangerous, and use high intensity lights to blind the driver and force a crash. It appears our guys prefer fire instead.

Anonymous Wanderer June 21, 2013 10:30 AM  

That's nothing. Here is someone who believes that consensus is a mechanism in Science:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/science-sushi/2013/06/19/the-very-thick-line-between-raising-concerns-and-denialism#.UcRipPlJNSD

Anonymous Oh, Snap! June 21, 2013 10:31 AM  

The engine and transmission were found 100 feet away.

Anonymous Oh, Snap! June 21, 2013 10:37 AM  

The engine and transmission were found 100 feet away.

Anonymous Noah B. June 21, 2013 10:37 AM  

"Except that some people didn’t listen to the data. They called foul, saying every scientist that disagreed with them was under the thumb of Big Pharma and lying to the public."

Funny, that sounds exactly like the global warmists' claims that every scientist who disagrees with them is funded by the oil companies.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 June 21, 2013 10:40 AM  

Flat, straight, wide-open road in a deserted commercial district late at night.
He probably just swerved to miss a stray animal.
At 130 miles per hour.

Anonymous physics geek June 21, 2013 10:40 AM  

My stepfather used to live in Miami. He said that the mob was so big there (30+ years ago) that you would routinely see headlines such as "Man commits suicide. Shoots self in head six times" and no one would even bat an eye.

Why do I mention that? I dunno, but this "official" story sounds strangely familiar.

Anonymous TWS June 21, 2013 10:47 AM  

Looks legit. In my years as a police officer I saw zero cars explode. That means that the odds were due to change right?

Romans had boats fall apart. We have cars that explode like they have dynamite under the engine. But it's for the good of the republic right?

It makes me wonder how they knew Scott Ritter's weakness was little girls and about Breitbart's heart attack.

Anonymous Daniel June 21, 2013 10:50 AM  

When something that rare happens to a guy who just happens to have recently pissed off some important people, who's living patterns just happen to have changed in the last week, the odds against really start to stack up....

...who also contacted a wikileaks attorney just hours before to tell them that he was under investigation by the FBI...while the same detectives who have ruled out foul play, haven't ruled out that someone else might have been driving the car...

Anonymous TWS June 21, 2013 10:57 AM  

@Daniel
What are you one of those conspiracy nuts? Nothing to see here, move along.

Anonymous Daniel June 21, 2013 10:59 AM  

Fortunately, we have crack reporters, like the seasoned journalists at Morning Joe who I'm sure will get to the bottom of this, as soon as they stop talking with pop culture interviewees in the third person...

Yikes. Most media today is like an orgy in the alzheimer's ward. Technically, I guess it is still sex.

Anonymous Jake June 21, 2013 11:01 AM  

A friend of mine's accelerator got stuck in the floored position and he only avoided tragedy by quickly shifting out of gear.

No Brakes? Not trying to be snarky, just something I've always wondered about the "accelerator stuck" scenario. Typically your brakes have something like 4x the stopping power as your engine can put out, regardless of how big your engine is the brakes ought to win that tug-of-war. The only caveat would be that modern cars use vacuum-assisted brakes and when the throttle is wide-open your vacuum is at a minimum, but they'd still work and it seems like something car makers would have accounted for.

Anonymous Godfrey June 21, 2013 11:02 AM  

Andrew Breitbart
Aaron Swartz
Michael Hastings
Bradley Manning
Edward Snowden
Patriot Act
Fast and Furious
IRS Scandal
NDAA
TSA
NSA Surveillance
Benghazi

Do you think the liberals will finally wake up and realize that state power isn’t benevolent in nature? Do you think they’ll finally begin to understand that the future isn’t utopian, but dystopian?

Anonymous Eric C June 21, 2013 11:04 AM  

"Do you think the liberals will finally wake up and realize that state power isn’t benevolent in nature? Do you think they’ll finally begin to understand that the future isn’t utopian, but dystopian? "

No and no.

Anonymous Jake June 21, 2013 11:21 AM  

Do you think the liberals will finally wake up and realize that state power isn’t benevolent in nature? Do you think they’ll finally begin to understand that the future isn’t utopian, but dystopian?

Those that are aware of these things and haven't figured it out or prefer to live in denial never will. Many are just ignorant, some of them will understand eventually.

Anonymous Kooky June 21, 2013 11:32 AM  

This is what happens here all the time. A fun yet sane discussion on the targeted killing done by our government, and some kook has to pop in and say this is just like when they used directed energy weapons on 9/11. Was it the lizard people, or bigfoot?

Anonymous Daniel June 21, 2013 11:32 AM  

Do you think the liberals will finally wake up and realize that state power isn’t benevolent in nature? Do you think they’ll finally begin to understand that the future isn’t utopian, but dystopian?

Don't you realize yet that the liberal has been wide awake the entire time...and this is what he wanted all along?

Anonymous Stickwick June 21, 2013 11:39 AM  

These strange accidental deaths remind me of that episode of Blackadder where they're trying to rig an election so that Baldrick will be an MP. When asked by a reporter how Baldrick managed to get 16,472 votes in a borough with only one voter, it's revealed that Blackadder has not only become the returning officer, after the previous one "accidentally brutally stabbed himself in the stomach while shaving," but the constituency's sole voter, after the previous one "very sadly accidentally brutally cut off his own head while combing his hair." Of course, nobody bothers to question these events, and Baldrick wins the election.

Anonymous Athor Pel June 21, 2013 11:40 AM  

"Jake June 21, 2013 11:01 AM

A friend of mine's accelerator got stuck in the floored position and he only avoided tragedy by quickly shifting out of gear.

No Brakes? Not trying to be snarky, just something I've always wondered about the "accelerator stuck" scenario. Typically your brakes have something like 4x the stopping power as your engine can put out, regardless of how big your engine is the brakes ought to win that tug-of-war. The only caveat would be that modern cars use vacuum-assisted brakes and when the throttle is wide-open your vacuum is at a minimum, but they'd still work and it seems like something car makers would have accounted for.
"




Yes, the brakes will keep you in place while your rear wheels shed rubber in copious amounts. It happened to me once. In a 1969 Ford F-150. Scared the crap out of me, figuratively.

I was lucky. I was stopped at a stop sign when the pedal dropped, all on its own. I don't know what would have happened if it had happened while moving.

To this day I have no idea what caused it. My gut tells me it would only happen while stopped.

Anonymous dh June 21, 2013 11:41 AM  

Do you think the liberals will finally wake up and realize that state power isn’t benevolent in nature? Do you think they’ll finally begin to understand that the future isn’t utopian, but dystopian?

Not a majority but a good slice of leftists are very wary of State power. Especially the younger generation. We've learned something from the Bush years which is that the power of the State is an awesome thing.. to be on the wrong side of.

There is a very strong vein of anti-populism in many leftists and liberals. The current administration has a big slice of them. The idea of a war on leaks by a liberal administration is something of an intellectual tipping point for probably 20% of the more recently minted liberal activists. The rest are, like their conservative cousins, basically it in for the power.

Don't you realize yet that the liberal has been wide awake the entire time...and this is what he wanted all along?

I think you are giving to much devious credit to the leftists and liberals. Few or none are out working for a dystopian future. However, if you made an objective list of what your version of the dystopian future was like, stripped out as many adjective s as possible, and then compared to an idealized leftist future, similarly cleaned, I think there would be a nearly identical pair of fears/goals.

Anonymous TWS June 21, 2013 11:42 AM  

Lizard people definitely. Bigfoot is a barefoot luddite who lives on the West coast.

Anonymous Cail Corishev June 21, 2013 11:42 AM  

No Brakes? Not trying to be snarky, just something I've always wondered about the "accelerator stuck" scenario. Typically your brakes have something like 4x the stopping power as your engine can put out, regardless of how big your engine is the brakes ought to win that tug-of-war.

If I remember correctly, this car had a 455 cubic inch engine with nearly 500hp, so I'm not so sure about that. In any case, your first reaction when your gas pedal goes to the floor and stays there is probably to prod at it with your foot, trying to figure out where it went, which means it's not on the brake. Whatever you do, it's going to have to be quick if you're in traffic.

Remember the "Arkancides," a list of people in Arkansas with ties to Bill Clinton (or who got too close to Mena) who were ruled to have committed suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head? Only crazies cared about those too.

Anonymous Athor Pel June 21, 2013 11:43 AM  

"Kooky June 21, 2013 11:32 AM

This is what happens here all the time. A fun yet sane discussion on the targeted killing done by our government, and some kook has to pop in and say this is just like when they used directed energy weapons on 9/11. Was it the lizard people, or bigfoot?

"




So you're saying the military doesn't have directed energy weapons? Or are you saying that directed energy weapons don't exist, at all? Or do you question anyone's willingness to use said weapon(s) if they were to exist?

I'm curious.

Anonymous dh June 21, 2013 11:46 AM  

No Brakes? Not trying to be snarky, just something I've always wondered about the "accelerator stuck" scenario. Typically your brakes have something like 4x the stopping power as your engine can put out, regardless of how big your engine is the brakes ought to win that tug-of-war. The only caveat would be that modern cars use vacuum-assisted brakes and when the throttle is wide-open your vacuum is at a minimum, but they'd still work and it seems like something car makers would have accounted for.

Driving cross-country in a 2012 VW Pasat and I awoke to my wife telling me that the pedal was stuck. She was trying to press the brake hard enough to come to a controlled stop. She wasn't having a lot of luck so I reached over and turned off the ignition.

Turns out she had jammed something accidentally between the edge of the pedal and the tip of the floor mat. I think the brakes would have continued to slow us down but it's disconcerting to the average or below average driver to hear the engine screaming, probably for the first time (it was in my wife's case). That sort of tricked her into thinking she couldn't stop, when were slowing down (but not very quickly).

Anonymous Daniel June 21, 2013 11:49 AM  

Typically your brakes have something like 4x the stopping power as your engine can put out, regardless of how big your engine is the brakes ought to win that tug-of-war.

You aren't accounting for brake fade, momentum (say, downhill), old pads, etc. I'm acquainted with a lady who went on a rather famous "no brakes, stuck accelerator" ordeal at speeds of something like 100 mph in her SUV for about 40 minutes (60 miles!) on the phone with E911.

She did everything right, and pretty calmly: car in neutral, depressed the brakes and emergency brake once and firmly (didn't pump it). Had state patrol trailing her the whole way. Finally, she lifted the accelerator with one foot and pressed the brakes with the other, and that worked.

Now, maybe she didn't have the strength to override the engine with her brakes, I don't know, but I don't think that was it. Engineers have looked at the car and have tried to replicate it with other cars, but it isn't as perfectly simple as "physics, well applied, won't allow for it."

However, your greater point is important: most of those cases are panic where people either don't know to put the car in neutral, or pump the brakes and fade them, thereby decimating stopping force.

Anonymous TWS June 21, 2013 11:53 AM  

@Cail
Fires happen. Explosions not so much.

Anonymous Noah B. June 21, 2013 11:54 AM  

Just curious, where do people get the idea that they should pump their brakes?

Anonymous Kooky June 21, 2013 11:55 AM  

Athor,

I'm questioning the idea that fanciful, Rube Goldberg conspiracies are deemed necessary, when people falling from the tower can be easily explained by the fact that a plane crashed into it. That doesn't entail believing everything about how the plane got there, but at some point you have to tone down the wackiness for the sake of the evidence in front of you.

Anonymous Idle Spectator June 21, 2013 12:03 PM  

It makes me wonder how they knew Scott Ritter's weakness was little girls and about Breitbart's heart attack.

I just looked that Scott Ritter case up. Idiot. He should have learned his lesson the first time he was almost pinched.

That's just stupidity the second time.

Anonymous Daniel June 21, 2013 12:07 PM  

Just curious, where do people get the idea that they should pump their brakes?

Pre-ABS brakes, on ice to correct a skid. Also necessary to keep a relatively straight line for any chance at scoring in car hockey on the pond.

Anonymous Jake June 21, 2013 12:15 PM  

Just curious, where do people get the idea that they should pump their brakes?

you must not watch much tv. I don't anymore, but when I did any "safety advisory" sort of thing says "if you don't have ABS...". Pretty typical in that it's bad advice arrived at from trying to simplify good advice down to the lowest common denominator.

Good advice: "Skidding is bad, don't press your brakes so hard that the wheels lock up, you'll have no control and less braking too"

Simpler, bad advice: "pump your brakes" so that you go from too much brake to too little and back again.

Anonymous Eric C June 21, 2013 12:18 PM  

"I just looked that Scott Ritter case up. Idiot. He should have learned his lesson the first time he was almost pinched."

My brother the sheriff deputy has a t-shirt that says "I'm the 14 year old girl you were talking to on the internet.".

Heh.

Blogger John Smith June 21, 2013 12:31 PM  

Kooky?

Are you sure that you're not a government plant meant to direct away from the truth? Did you go to the link?

Where is the debris from the Towers? How did cars get toasted on FDR Drive? Why did the cars burn - but paper didn't? Why did building 7 collapse?

Google: Dr Judy Wood The Journal of 9/11 Research

Anonymous Porky June 21, 2013 12:37 PM  

Not a majority but a good slice of leftists are very wary of State power.

Too late.

Anonymous Kooky June 21, 2013 12:40 PM  

Not content with secretly transferring the passengers off the airplanes, then installing remote control technology to guide the planes into the Twin Towers, the lizards set up their microwave lasers around the area to ensure the structures would collapse. They knew that damaged towers wouldn't be enough to justify the invasion of Iraq (for Saddam was holding the son of the lizard king hostage), they had to be completely destroyed. Clever lizards!

Anonymous dh June 21, 2013 12:42 PM  

Too late.

Probably. A lot think it's basically a commandment to get and hold onto the power, not to reduce it.

OpenID cailcorishev June 21, 2013 12:46 PM  

Fires happen. Explosions not so much.

Right. In fact, I'd imagine a whole lot of engineering hours over the years have gone into making that be true. Cars just don't explode unless multiple unlikely things happen together.

"Pumping the brakes" is essentially what anti-lock brakes do to try to slow the car as quickly as possible without allowing a skid, but they do it faster and better than your foot can. In ye olden days, we had to do it ourselves.

Anonymous Dan in Tx June 21, 2013 12:53 PM  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ou63u6Ekycc

Skip to about 1:46.....thankfully there were some Jewish first responders on the scene to do what they could.

Anonymous Jake June 21, 2013 1:10 PM  

What exactly is to be made of the engine/tranny sitting very far from the car? I can't explain how a crash would do that, nor can I figure why that would be part of some staged accident.

Anonymous TWS June 21, 2013 1:21 PM  

@IS
There are thousands of cases just like Ritter everyday. What is interesting is how much leverage was availible against him. Why was he selected when they knew he was that vulnerable? You can't tell me no one was monitoring him. He had a handle big enough for anyone to grab. Think for yourself and look deeper.

Anonymous TJ June 21, 2013 1:27 PM  

Did it burst into flames before "bumping" into that palm tree? Or was
he on fire first and then crashed into tree?

Anonymous Shut Up Noah B. And Josh June 21, 2013 1:39 PM  

Frank Markus, technical director of Motor Trend, points out that “any impact at speeds high enough to rip the drive train out of a car is highly likely to force some object to rupture the fuel tank. There is a lot of potential chemical energy in a gas tank that's even a quarter full. Getting up to such speeds -- providing he didn't start a cold engine and floor the car into that tree -- results in a lot of red hot parts, particularly the catalytic converter and other exhaust system parts.”

A car’s interior, Kennerly says, is particularly flammable. “Your car is filled with fabric, foam and plastic, but the only federal standards relate to dropping a cigarette on it,” Kennerly says. “What happens in these higher-speed accidents is that hot parts leave the engine compartment and start coming into contact with plastic and other chemicals. The last time NTSB did testing on this, those fires spread in one to three minutes. That nice interior with shiny leather and chemicals that make it look and smell nice, all of it will catch fire. Once something like foam or plastic reaches the temperature of burning, it burns immediately. It looks like a bomb -- it looks like an incendiary was planted on [Hastings' car] because many times it produces the same types of chemicals as it degrades.”

Anonymous Idle Spectator June 21, 2013 1:42 PM  

There are thousands of cases just like Ritter everyday. What is interesting is how much leverage was availible against him. Why was he selected when they knew he was that vulnerable? You can't tell me no one was monitoring him. He had a handle big enough for anyone to grab. Think for yourself and look deeper.

I agree 100%. I think he was being monitored too. But I'm not vulnerable when I am whipping my unidle stick out. Just like I'm not vulnerable when going to a bar. I choose to go to that bar. I'm in public, and know not to piss on the bartender.

But he did it once... they almost caught him... then he got AWAY with it due to insufficient evidence.

What did he decide to do? The exact SAME THING a second time.

President Bush: "Fool Me Once..." quote

Mathematical Conclusion: Scott Ritter = Complete Idiot

Blogger John Smith June 21, 2013 1:52 PM  

@cailcorishev

"Cars just don't explode unless multiple unlikely things happen together."

Are you sure?

WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW

EMT PATRICIA ONDROVIC

Interview Date: October 1, 2001

I guess that's North Park. It's a big green, grassy area, and there's nothing there. As I was running up here, two or three more cars exploded on me. They weren't near any buildings at that point, they were just parked on the street. The traffic guys hadn't gotten a chance to tow anything yet, cause this was all during the first hour I guess of this thing happening. So there were still cars parked on the street that were completely independent of that. Three cars blew up on me, stuff was being thrown. I went home all bruised that day

Anonymous Gofrey June 21, 2013 1:59 PM  

@Daniel June 21, 2013 11:32 AM "Don't you realize yet that the liberal has been wide awake the entire time...and this is what he wanted all along?"


It's really a matter of how one defines his terms. I actually like liberals. They're naive and child-like, but they mean well. And with a lot of patience, you can lead them into adulthood.

However when it comes to "Progressives", I agree with you. "Progressives" are political fanatics.

Anonymous VD June 21, 2013 2:22 PM  

Frank Markus, technical director of Motor Trend, points out that “any impact at speeds high enough to rip the drive train out of a car is highly likely to force some object to rupture the fuel tank. There is a lot of potential chemical energy in a gas tank that's even a quarter full. Getting up to such speeds -- providing he didn't start a cold engine and floor the car into that tree -- results in a lot of red hot parts, particularly the catalytic converter and other exhaust system parts.”

I once burned a car more thoroughly than that Mercedes during a road rally in which I inadvertently set an entire field on fire. The gas tank exploded when the flames set it off. It does NOT go off like a bomb. I was expecting that, but there was just a dull "whump" and a bunch of oily black smoke went up from the rear. There were no flames leaping 20 feet in the air, much less any ground shaking.

The Motor Trend guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Anonymous Michael Maier June 21, 2013 2:31 PM  

So just like the USPS with kiddie porn, most of the "underage bait" is government-provided?

And that's still a great use of tax dollars...

Anonymous Noah B. June 21, 2013 2:37 PM  

Sounds right to me. To get a truly explosive effect from gasoline requires that it be mixed with lots of air, which typically requires some intentional effort.

Anonymous WaterBoy June 21, 2013 2:40 PM  

Noah B: "Just curious, where do people get the idea that they should pump their brakes?"

Others have already covered the ABS thing, but it's also something you do coming down steep declines, to prevent them from overheating. Of course, you should also downshift to let the transmission friction slow you down...something this unfortunate woman apparently did not know before it was too late.

If your brakes overheat, it can vaporize some of the brake fluid and possibly lead to complete failure of the braking system. Pumping them, rather than keeping them constantly applied, alleviates some of the heat buildup.

Anonymous Stickwick June 21, 2013 2:43 PM  

UPDATE: One of the witnesses said: "It sounded like a bomb going off. The house shook; the windows were rattling."

He very sadly accidentally brutally blew himself up while driving.

Anonymous VD = Speed Racer June 21, 2013 3:01 PM  

"The Motor Trend guy doesn't know what he's talking about."

Right, an experienced person in the industry has no clue regarding the impact of vehicles at high speeds and their individual and/or cumulative effects. What was I thinking?

Please find some additional evidence besides an over-the-top anecdote as refutation.

Anonymous VD June 21, 2013 3:08 PM  

Please find some additional evidence besides an over-the-top anecdote as refutation.

What is over the top about it? I've actually set fire to a car and blown up a gas tank. It doesn't do what the guy from Motor Trend theorizes could happen or how much automotive experience he has; he hasn't done it.

Anonymous TWS June 21, 2013 3:12 PM  

I've seen several cars burn to the ground. Not one has ever gone off like a bomb.

OpenID cailcorishev June 21, 2013 3:15 PM  

The Motor Trend guy makes it sound like if you drop a lit cigarette in your car, you'd better leap out the window before the whole thing goes up in flames. I didn't realize modern car interiors included so much paper mache.

Anonymous Noah B. June 21, 2013 3:26 PM  

When I was a kid, there were several times we made bonfires with 5-10 gallons of gasoline, which is comparable to what's often in a car's gas tank. With that much gas on a pile of wood, you will get a decent size "whoosh" and a ball of flame flying up in the air when you light it, so you don't want to just walk up and drop a match on it. Lighting it safely takes some special techniques, like lighting a match and tossing it a long distance all in one motion.

Spreading gasoline over wood for a bonfire disperses the vapor much more than is the case in a car's gas tank, so it is expected that the gasoline confined in a car's tank would be far less explosive than gas that's well-dispersed. Still, the explosive effect is very slight and falls well short of shaking houses and rattling windows. Standing about 30 feet away, I remember feeling sudden flashes of heat, but nothing resembling a shock wave.

Anonymous Noah B. June 21, 2013 3:34 PM  

Hollywood uses gasoline-based incendiaries for most of their special effects for explosives. They make it seem much more impressive than it actually is by using high speed photography, slowing the frame rate to about 1/10 of its original speed, and adding lots of sound effects.

The real thing looks and sounds completely different.

Anonymous Glacierman June 21, 2013 3:37 PM  

Watching the initial video a few things struck me...

The Spanish speaking witness says that there was fire coming out from the underside of the car. The streets channel the water during heavy rainfall in LA, so they intersections have lower than normal gutters, and intersections are sometimes one foot below road grade. When traveling at high rates of speed, going through these intersections a vehicle bottoms out rather easily, and at excessive speeds there are major belly-flop, bottom-of-car sparking light shows that result. Hastings would have lost control of the car as bottoming out at those speeds has the vehicle bouncing and lurching to the right curb edge, which would put him into over-correcting and steering exactly where he did.

He also took out, what appears to be a fire hydrant or some other water spigot before hitting the palm tree, as there is water gushing out of the median. That said, the front of the car would have impacted the hydrant and started the engine/tranny dislodging process prior to palm tree impact. That would be why they ended up 100 feet down the street. (surprised they only traveled that far, frankly)

I right away thought detonation device, but the super heated metal from bottoming out could be enough energy and heat to get things started, but I am speculating at best here.

Smells and tastes rotten. Just like Breitbart, we will see who ends up writing the reports and who makes it through the process.

The will to live, unfortunately can be much stronger that the will to tell the truth.

Anonymous Cederq June 21, 2013 3:58 PM  

`I design and build vehicle electrical systems and part of that encompasses designing the electrical subsystems that go into modern car and truck fuel tanks which include running 12 volts, and in some cases 24 volts DC. I have been asked because of this to investigate on forensic teams the probable cause of gas tank explosions and fires, and I know gas tanks do not explode like the Hollywood pyrotechnics displays to wow movie goers. It is more like the "whump" described in other comments. Some other device or chemicals seem to have been present for the explosion on Hasting's video.

Anonymous Godfrey June 21, 2013 3:58 PM  

It's funny how some people give the government and its various innumerable agencies the benefit of the doubt, but not their neighbor... oh no, average Joe is guilty until proven innocent.

OpenID cailcorishev June 21, 2013 4:00 PM  

Thing is, even if you buy the accident as presented, including the explosion, that still doesn't explain why the guy was flying down this street and losing control in what apparently is a straightaway. Was he running from someone? Had he been drugged? Had his car been tampered with: brake lines cut and gas pedal glued to the floor? There are a lot of questions, even if nothing untoward happened at the final scene.

Anonymous Robert in Arabia June 21, 2013 4:49 PM  

People who believe Saudis with boxcutters pulled of 911 often believe Hitler killed 6000000 non- gentiles.

Blogger JackJD Montana June 21, 2013 5:16 PM  

I respectfully disagree with Vox. I think this guy offed himself, based on the dashboard cam footage of him blasting through an intersection at 100 mph before impact...though there is every reason to be suspicious as Obama can't afford to have the grey, pot-bellied 1960s radical turned Democrat donor demographic that still reads Rolling Stone turn on him. Hacking a Mercedes to slam on the accelerator would be a real James Bond movie style trick. If he had a history of substance abuse, why not just whack him, dump the body in a dark alley somewhere in LA, with drug residue planted on him?

Anonymous sprach von Teufelhunden June 21, 2013 5:33 PM  

Boston Brakes

To John Smith:

The answer is -- a nuke. A scalar can mimic a nuke. However, no evidence to date is available.

To Kooky:

Lizards probably exists, but in the manner you don't want them to. I particularly don't want them either. However, what one doesn't want, does not mean they don't exist.

Anonymous TWS June 21, 2013 6:52 PM  

@ JackjdMontana
If the guy had been questioned or damaged in some way you need the fire and explosion to cover that up.

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco June 21, 2013 7:19 PM  

The Blaze:

"I’m onto a big story, and need to go off the radar for a bit. All the best, and hope to see you all soon.”

Anonymous Kooky June 21, 2013 7:49 PM  

sprach,

Come on dude, level with me here. I get that there's dark and powerful men pulling strings and controlling things much more direct and much more overreaching than the puppet show we call electoral politics. I'm with you, no argument. Power beats paper (whether it is the Constitution or voting chad) any day. But do we really need to bring in "psi powers" and alien technology? This again goes to having doubts about the official 9/11 story (fine), by introducing some shadow org using large-scale microwave lasers.

The bigger the job, the more people needed. The more people needed, the greater chance of someone flipping the script (hence, a Snowden). The official story is bogus; ok, no problem. But it's bogus because the true rulers are invisible zombies with lasers for eyes? Why???

Anonymous Wanderer June 21, 2013 8:59 PM  

Was a Saudi passport found near the scene?

For me, that was what proved that 911 was an inside job.

After all, everyone knows that the Saudis do not have the ability to make indestructible passports.

I wonder if the guy that thought that item up got fired (or severely reprimanded with a bullet) for being too cute.

Anonymous VD = Speed Racer June 21, 2013 9:11 PM  

"It doesn't do what the guy from Motor Trend theorizes could happen or how much automotive experience he has; he hasn't done it."

The guy from Motor Trend hasn't set fire to a car or blown up a gas tank? And you know this how? Regardless of your experience, it is reasonable to assume that what the Motor Trend person said about the accident is a possibility. You can debate its probability all you want.

Anonymous Mr. Pea June 21, 2013 11:43 PM  

Talking to a guy today who is a factory trained Mercedes Tech., from Germany, he says anything is possible, but this is very unlikely. Almost next to impossible. Europe is littered with the high speed wrecks of Mercedes.

Blogger Shimshon June 22, 2013 3:08 PM  

Glacierman, that is a major street in LA. The type of gutters you are referring to are only on the small residential streets. Not this one.

Blogger Shimshon June 22, 2013 3:11 PM  

Having once knocked out a hydrant myself, I don't think it have provided the impact to cause the engine to eject from the car, let alone send it flying 100 feet forward. They are very easily dislodged. And in any case, how do you get from a head-on collision to ejecting the motor?

Anonymous MUltan July 11, 2013 6:47 PM  

Here's my theory based on the eyewitness testimony - Hastings, for some reason* was going at a very high rate of speed. He had hit previous bumps in the road, bottoming out and causing damage under the car, leading to something metal (e.g. exhaust) dragging on the ground, causing a trail of sparks. The last bump he hit was especially bad and launched the car into the air, it came down on the right rear wheel first. The wheels had increased RPMs due to the lack of load while in the air, so when it came down, the right side of the car had more thrust than the left, causing the car to suddenly veer about 60 degrees to the left, while simultaneously bouncing from the landing. The car hit the tree slightly off center when it was at least several inches above the ground, and the impact tore loose the breakaway motor mounts while the ground velocity of the engine was still quite high (though the velocity of the rest of the car was even higher). Because the impact was off-center and the tree was round and not very thick, the tree only deflected the motor somewhat, and it continued with most of its initial momentum. (Reports that the motor was found in the opposite direction were false.) The gas tank was already damaged by the earlier bottoming out and it was in proximity to the hot metal. It failed catastrophically in the crash, releasing all the fuel at once in a spray which instantly ignited. The shaking felt was probably not due to a shock-wave from explosives, but rather to the high-energy impact on the very rigid tree being transmitted through the ground, experienced together with the loud noise of the crash and the "whump" of the igniting fuel.

* Theories about why he was going so fast:
#1 he may have had his car computers hacked, allowing an assassin to remote-control the car, locking the driver out of the ignition, throttle, brakes and even the transmission. In this theory the veer into the tree could have been achieved with differential braking, which the computers in cars with stability control have the capacity to do.

#2 He was being chased. The eyewitness seems to imply that there were other cars "All the cars were coming...". This may be due to the poor English of the witness, it isn't mentioned in the other interview where he speaks Spanish. The chase theory could be compatible with the car-remote control theory - The person operating the remote control would want to be in visual range or closer to give the best chance of a fatal accident.

In both these theories, the spectacular fireball could have been an unintentional, freak occurrence drawing unwanted suspicion to the assassins. Or it could be that they wanted to "cowboy the son of a bitch" to send a message.

Given the quick police verdict of "accident" with little investigation, the police report still being unavailable and both the Police and Fire Departments being told not to make any comment, it would seem that the assassins' employer has high-level Federal pull. It could be the FBI, CIA, White House, Army, or others. (Mossad? The crash was in front of a Hasidic EMS location.) It could be because of Hastings breaking the McChrystal adultery story or because of the new story that he was working on and was about to "go off the radar" over, as he wrote earlier in the day. (He also said in the same email that he thought he was being followed by the FBI, which drew a rare denial from the FBI.)

#3 Suicide, disguised for insurance or to protect his reputation or the feelings of his family. The email might have been meant to spark suspicion of foul play, he might even have rigged the car for a post crash fire. This theory seems somewhat far-fetched, but it is possible. When investigating a story so hot that you're going into hiding, one would think that it would be SOP to have an "insurance" file to be released in case of his untimely death. That hasn't happened, so maybe there was no story. (Or he didn't have an insurance file, or the assassins found it ...)

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