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Tuesday, July 02, 2013

Armed police vs leashed dog

"A video posted yesterday on YouTube shows the grisly shooting of a dog by a police officer in Hawthorne, California. The 130-pound, 3-year-old Rottweiler named Max was shot to death after he escaped through a window in a parked car and ran over to his master, Leon Rosby, who was being arrested for filming the scene on his phone.

The video shows Rosby, 52, walking his dog Sunday around 7 p.m. near a house with several police squad cars parked outside.  He is seen filming the scene in order 'to make sure nobody's civil rights were being violated,' he told DailyBreeze.com."


I'd like to see a law that requires the execution of police officers who shoot dogs, but I'd settle for their immediate dismissal from the force and being banned from owning dogs for life. The dog was on a leash, for crying out loud, and his owner was right there.  They had a plethora of options available to them, and yet they preferred the one that permit them to live out their violent fantasies. To kill a loyal beast who was only doing his best to protect his master is unconscionable, and yet that has become standard police policy when invading a home.

Throughout history, the state police have always been among the primary instruments of evil, and in the present USA, the corrupt Badge Gang have thoroughly embraced evil in their own right.  Their observable enthusiasm for slaughtering innocent animals and children in the pursuit of their "duty" only underlines how sick and depraved they are.

And spare me the "few bad apples" nonsense.  If you're wearing a badge these days, you are part of the problem.  Ask yourself this: when you and your "brothers" distinguish yourself from "civilians", with whom do you believe you are at war?

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255 Comments:

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Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 02, 2013 9:06 AM  

I blame action movies and buddy cop films. Can I do that and be right about it?

Anonymous p-dawg July 02, 2013 9:07 AM  

I'm sure as they were celebrating in the bar later that night, his fellow murderers congratulated him on his "righteous shoot" of the "dangerous perp". Contempt doesn't even begin to describe it.

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 9:08 AM  

The worst of it all was the guy being arrested was being arrested because the police didn't want him recording their activities, and he walked to close to a barricade. Not because he went behind the barricade, but just because he was close to it. And they didn't want him recording them.

I agree. Death penalty for police brutality or misconduct is a fair trade off. We give them huge power over our lives, and a trust, and if they violate the trust, it's curtains for them.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2013 9:08 AM  

I walked out of my house one day to find a cop in my yard with a shotgun and the first words out of his mouth were "mister, I am going to kill your dog" (my shepherd who was behind a fence - the neighbor complained).

I called my children out immediately (ages 3, 6, and 8) and said to the youngest "hey Abby, this guy is going to kill Ginger. Officer, please tell my daughter why you are going to kill her dog?"

Before I knew it 6 cruisers and 2 animal control trucks were there, all the neighbors were outside, and there I am lecturing everyone of them on the Constitution and property rights. I never left my yard or they would have beat me down for sure. There was a trial. I seated a jury, and the City was awarded $44 after a 1.5 day loose dog trial that cost the City a few thousand dollars to pursue.

Police altercations at my home were a weekly occurrence for a couple of years.

Anonymous paradox July 02, 2013 9:16 AM  

While a machine, Robocop at least had the decency to call people citizens and not the pejorative, civilian.

Anonymous Socially Extinct July 02, 2013 9:18 AM  

The original , non-blurred video shows the dog seizing and splashing blood profusely after being shot. It's horrific.

Typical cop behavior now involves creating a situation that never should have existed if they were men about it. And, that situation having been created, they go one step further and cap with egregious violence.

At the most, the guy was guilty maybe of public and annoying videotaping, but I don't believe this is a crime yet. The police are so emboldened by weak, pathetic juries and internal oversight that they simply do as they please.

Anonymous VD July 02, 2013 9:19 AM  

I walked out of my house one day to find a cop in my yard with a shotgun and the first words out of his mouth were "mister, I am going to kill your dog" (my shepherd who was behind a fence - the neighbor complained).

I can only commend your self-restraint. I don't think my response would be anywhere nearly as temperate.

Anonymous Curlytop July 02, 2013 9:22 AM  

Killing pets is in the same venue has harming kids. No excuse. Episodes like this are happening all over the country. Even in certain areas of the south. Remember the one where the dog, again on a leash in its own garage stood up to address the trespasser(cops) who had walked onto the property and the cops shot it dead on the spot.

The few bad apples excuse doesn't wash. Incidences like these were unheard of even a decade ago. It's almost as if these cops are being trained to kill pets as a way to train the populace into compliance or something. There are simply too many of these examples to be coincidence.

Like teachers, I have no respect for these dregs of society. A badge doesn't automatically mean I have to show respect...nor will I.

Blogger tz July 02, 2013 9:22 AM  

My term is "Blue Coats" after the occupying foreign army George Washington fought so hard to rid ourselves of. They just changed color. The idea of a friendly constable or "peace officer" has been replaced with the SWAT everywhere mentality. Some wanted to be tough on crime, but now everything is a crime and they are toughn rights. (See the dui blog - they now do forceable blood draws).

What is thursday?

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 9:24 AM  

Police altercations at my home were a weekly occurrence for a couple of years.
Police retaliation is a major problem. I moved a few years ago, but before I moved, I fought (and won) a traffic ticket.

If you are value your privacy or right to travel without being harassed, then I would recommend not embarrassing the local cops. All I did was ask the police officer (on the stand) how many times he had ever been disciplined for misconduct.

Everyone should have dash cams, and video at their homes. It's one of the only protections you have.

It's actually one of the few benefits i see to Google Glass style technology. Coupled with live upload to an external server, its a good defense against the police.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 02, 2013 9:24 AM  

Don't all of those cop shows tell us that serial killers start by killing animals?

Anonymous CJ July 02, 2013 9:25 AM  

The real problem is that they had no business arresting him in the first place. As Socially Extinct says, they created a situation that never should've existed. If it were a legitimate arrest though, I wouldn't blame them for shooting the dog. There is no way I would expect someone to try to grab the leash of an unfamiliar Rottweiler who is in protection mode.

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 9:25 AM  

1980's: Kill a commie for mommie. 2020's Kill a cop for pop? Damned fools have no idea what they are creating. When it was just the black population they treated in this manner, it was easier to ignore for the rest (majority) of the population. Hubris and an ever-more militarized police force has led to those forces seeking a broader mission and seeking to use their expanded power on an expanding portion of the population. With the police now targeting whites (e.g. home invasions, the girl assaulted at gunpoint for suspicion of an underage purchase of alcohol (it was water), etc.) in the same manner that they have targeted blacks (as seen in the video above), they are losing the support they once had among that portion of the population. Sure, it's slow bleed for now, but it is there and it's accelerating. The continued vibrant invasion will not help the police as whites become a minority at the same time they refuse to protect the police. Just imagine what it will be like for cops when they can no longer go into white neighborhoods without taking many of the same precautions they have to take in more vibrant areas. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, no one to blame but themselves.

Anonymous VD July 02, 2013 9:30 AM  

There is no way I would expect someone to try to grab the leash of an unfamiliar Rottweiler who is in protection mode.

Then you let go of the owner and tell him to control his dog. Or you use your baton and/or taser to get it under control. You don't kill it. These are supposed to be "trained officers", and obviously they have been trained to kill animals as a first resort.

They are monsters and they are every bit as immoral as the notorious state police of past regimes.

Blogger Cinco July 02, 2013 9:31 AM  

We should station these cops at NSA HQ, they would arrest everybody!

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 9:32 AM  

Read this:
Lt Swain, however, alleges that the officers were also looking out for Rosby.

'I know it's the dog's master, and more than likely not going to attack him, (but) we've got a guy handcuffed that's kind of defenseless. We have a duty to defend him too,' Swain said.

Rosby was held overnight in jail on suspicion of obstruction of justice and released at 5 AM the next day.

Rosby says that police would not return his dog's body to him.


And tell me if that doesn't sound like a bullshit ex post facto attempt to justify and cover up a crime committed by police.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2013 9:33 AM  

VD: "I can only commend your self-restraint. I don't think my response would be anywhere nearly as temperate."

I had several hundred complaints by a neighbor. I was used to their visits. I knew just how far to push and how to use my small children to humiliate and degrade them - my children were in on it). At trial I acted as my own lawyer and humiliated the star witness (neighbor - made her cry repeatedly with the introduction of her drinking, attempted murder, and drug use), the cops (they wanted me dead in the courtroom - and I just smiled, gave them the thumbs up), and the prosecutor (she wet herself a couple of times I believe). It was a circus, the judge lost control, threatened me with contempt repeatedly.

I knew if I acted out of anger originally they would have turned me into a criminal.

What was great, after the trial I went up to all the cops who were gathered around talking with the witness (old home week) and I inserted myself right into their conversation into the middle of their group as if I was their long lost friend just to send the message I am fearless.............

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother July 02, 2013 9:34 AM  

Police are the civil authority, thus they are also civilians.

My 4 and 2 year old sons sit on the driveway with my Boxers and have long talks and hug sessions.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 02, 2013 9:34 AM  

We should station these cops at NSA HQ, they would arrest everybody!

No, they're doing God's (the State/Obama's) work, protecting themselves and their criminal/righteous enterprise from the mundanes (non-government officials, elected or otherwise).

Remember, "To Protect And Serve" never specified who they protect and serve.

Anonymous CJ July 02, 2013 9:34 AM  

"We should station these cops at NSA HQ, they would arrest everybody!"

Nah, piranhas don't eat each other.

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother July 02, 2013 9:36 AM  

So they killed the rottweiler just in case it decided to attack its master?

Anonymous Alexander July 02, 2013 9:38 AM  

Dh,

Can I call harassment if a woman makes her desire to have sex with me known before I have expressed any interest in her?

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2013 9:38 AM  

dh: "I would recommend not embarrassing local cops"

I embarrassed them every chance I got. The key is to know the law and know their triggers, etc. and know their limits and where they feel comfortable cracking open your skull.

I still embarrass a cop every chance I get if he is aggressive toward me or someone else for now good reason.

Anonymous CLK July 02, 2013 9:38 AM  

I love my dogs more than my wife or kids :) and would view anyone hurting them as a killing offense...

We have an large problem in the urban areas of the US with minorities and large dogs --- pits, rotties etc that are mistreated and can be vicious attack dogs owned by irresponsible thugs. The pounds are loaded with the abused dogs and the streets are wild with feral versions. Just look at the bad reputation that the pit bull has -- that's due to irresponsible owners as the breed if raised properly is a wonderful dog.

So if your a cop in an urban setting and a rottie or pit comes running at you, barking and showing teeth.. its going to get shot -- doesn't have to happen as there a pepper sprays that would work better but that's just the reality of the urban life.

None of this excuses the cop for arresting a guy for taping them .. cops better get used to this because thanks to the cell phone every single person how has a video camera ...

Anonymous Will Best July 02, 2013 9:39 AM  

I have never had problems with law enforcement in smaller communities such as sub 50,000. They are usually more helpful, at least to locals though the can be fairly vicious to those people passing through if the locality doesn't have a tourist attraction.

The large metro and surrounding suburban cops more are as a general rule a bunch of assholes though.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2013 9:40 AM  

The Rott could have been controlled by me or my children in this situation without fanfare.

Unless the dog was trained in protection, it would be very easy to control him if you establish your dominance.

Anonymous Alexander July 02, 2013 9:41 AM  

Comment above is obviously in the wrong thread. My apologies.

Anonymous Daniel July 02, 2013 9:43 AM  

It is a good thing this occurred in a relatively empty street. Just think of the carnage that would have ensued had this guy brought his dog and a video camera to Hawthorne's "Coffee with a Cop".

Thank goodness this dangerous videographer and his leashed puppy will never again be able to, uh, look at his neighbor's house again?

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 9:44 AM  

Fuck tha police.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2013 9:45 AM  

Assert your rights confidently and often.... otherwise you don't have any.

Blogger Ciphra Summam July 02, 2013 9:47 AM  

First response should be the use of OC or pepper spray, it's used as a bear repellant. I'd be shocked if it couldn't handle a 130lb rottie. Plus the dog survives.

Anonymous CJ July 02, 2013 9:49 AM  

"Then you let go of the owner and tell him to control his dog. Or you use your baton and/or taser to get it under control. You don't kill it. These are supposed to be "trained officers", and obviously they have been trained to kill animals as a first resort."

I agree the Taser should've been the first option. I'm curious; would your opinion change if it was a private individual that had gotten into a fistfight with the owner? Say the other guy is carrying and the dog rushes him while they're fighting. If the owner doesn't call him off, would you say the other guy is justified in shooting the dog?

Blogger Bob Wallace July 02, 2013 9:50 AM  

I call this "When Morons Collide." The guy was stupid for walking up to several cop cars with a Rottweiler on a light leash with no muzzle on the dog. If he wanted to film he should have left the dog home. What did he expect? Lots of cops are stupid and cowardly and hide behind their badges.

The only dogs I have ever seen no-class blacks own are Rottweilers and pitbulls. I got bit by one of their pitbulls, right out of the blue, and believe me it was no picnic.

At least the guy will get a lot of money for the illegal arrest. I hope he doesn't get another dog.

By the way, the only time I ever saw a pitbull fall out of the back of a pick-up truck - on the highway - it was driven by some young black guy.

Some people shouldn't be allowed to own dogs.

Don't bother to make any comments how I'm "supporting the police." I'm not. I'd fire every one of those guys. But the owner of the dog clearly has an IQ way south of 100.

Anonymous VD July 02, 2013 9:51 AM  

If the owner doesn't call him off, would you say the other guy is justified in shooting the dog?

Assuming he was actually attacked by the dog, yes. He's not trained, he doesn't have a baton or a taser, etc. A dog rushing at you and barking is not necessarily an attack.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 9:52 AM  

Some people shouldn't be allowed to own dogs.

Commie.

Should some people not be allowed to own guns?

Anonymous VryeDenker July 02, 2013 9:52 AM  

It's because the dog was black, wasn't it?

Anonymous allyn71 July 02, 2013 9:53 AM  

First account I remember of shooting a dog for no reason was about 3 1/2 years ago.

Off duty cop walking in a neighborhood is charged by a border collie that bolts through an open door past it owners and is barking at him from the yard but on the owners property. A off duty cop pulled his weapon and shot the dog before owners even have time to react or go get the dog.

At the time it was unusual, people wondered if it was legal to just shoot a dog, safety concerns (public vs. officer), etc. Since then it seems like there is one of these every couple of months locally and every week one make national headlines. It definitely has been added to the training regime. Or perhaps ore likely, they were told they won't get in trouble if they do it for "officer safety" so once the fear of reprisals were gone, restraints on conduct were gone.

Same thing is gonna happen to people soon. Someone is gonna point out that it is OK to shoot a "civilian" if they are doing XYZ and they can claim it was necessary for "officer safety". Soon they will be shooting those with video camera's taping them instead of just arresting them.

Oh wait....

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Officer-Shoots-Kills-Man-Holding-Cell-Phone-62396017.html

http://on.aol.com/video/houston-police-officers-mistake-phone-for-gun--shoot-man-517482227

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruQmcQgolM0 - Police Shoot Man Brandishing Cell Phone

Blogger crazyivan498 July 02, 2013 9:54 AM  

I am confused by the sequence. Of events. I saw the Guy fliming. He puts his dog in the car and walks towards the cops who are walking towards him and is suddenly arrested. Did he know he was being arrested when walking towards the losers. Why did he walk towards the cops in the first place

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2013 9:54 AM  

As the cop who was going to shoot my dog with a 12 gauge said in the courtroom, "the dog showed aggressive tendencies".

In other words, she barked at the cop when he was walking around MY yard (dog was penned before the cop ever arrived - he said "she is still a threat").

Anonymous Daniel July 02, 2013 9:57 AM  

So if your a cop in an urban setting and a rottie or pit comes running at you, barking and showing teeth.. its going to get shot -- doesn't have to happen as there a pepper sprays that would work better but that's just the reality of the urban life.

It may be real, but it isn't right. Cops have the industrial pepper spray, accurate to 25 feet, right there on the belt. They are trained to use it. The fact that they choose not to doesn't have to be "just the reality", it is a question of competence. A cop who can't demonstrate the difference between lethal weapons and non-lethal weapons is not competent. Period. He is a danger to police work and should be permanently removed. Urban setting, suburban, or rural. A cop who draws a firearm when the - in all factors - superior response is the pepper gun, should have been screened out in training, and certainly suspended, reviewed and then fired within days.

Anonymous Oso July 02, 2013 10:00 AM  

I've noticed the trend of police officers shooting dogs for no readily apparent reason too, so I did a quick search online and found an interesting article on the matter:

http://www.petsadviser.com/news/dogs-shot-by-police/

Too many choice quotes, the whole thing is worth reading. The info-graphic on page 2 is especially damming.

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 10:00 AM  

Just wait until martial law is effectively declared in response to the riots that will occur when Zimmerman is acquitted. Sure, it will happen first in the rioting vibrant areas, but watch it get expanded into non-vibrant areas. For their protection, of course...

We are sitting on a powder keg. This may not be the match that sets it all off, but there will be one.

Blogger A July 02, 2013 10:01 AM  

Black dude was probably a teacher, go figure.

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 10:01 AM  

Assuming he was actually attacked by the dog, yes. He's not trained, he doesn't have a baton or a taser, etc. A dog rushing at you and barking is not necessarily an attack.

It doesn't even matter. The dog was justified. His master was being harmed - his rights violated - for no reason. Just because the man has been broken doesn't mean his dog has been.

Shooting the dog was the most destructive option available.

Anonymous CJ July 02, 2013 10:02 AM  

"Assuming he was actually attacked by the dog, yes. He's not trained, he doesn't have a baton or a taser, etc. A dog rushing at you and barking is not necessarily an attack."

Is it only an attack after you're already bitten? I'm asking sincerely since I'm not a dog person. However I prosecuted several of the types of cases that Bob Wallace mentions. The worst was when a Rottweiler broke its leash and mauled a blind man and his seeing-eye dog.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2013 10:03 AM  

If dogs are such a deadly threat that cops have to resort to high capacity firearms......

...then shouldn't the citizens be allowed to carry firearms to protect themselves from the deadly threat posed by the neighbors poodle?

Anonymous Toby Temple July 02, 2013 10:03 AM  

Poor dog. Black dude is right to sue the Police Department where those cops who killed his dog belong.

Anonymous Steveo July 02, 2013 10:04 AM  

Hey Guys,

You are the dogs.

Now the ACTIVE SHOOTER training being taught by the feds to local & county police - means police are supposed to SHOOT anyone with a weapon drawn. CCW? Shoot the guy, even if he's defending his own life! How about a potential suicide with a weapon to HIS OWN HEAD? Shoot the guy - the feds are teaching cops to SHOOT anyone with a weapon drawn and using the "his action is faster than your reaction" to justify it, it's the legal basis for the action and they want to establish precedent. One of my best friends brought this up to me immediately after his training. He couldn't believe the change in protocol/status. I already took this to our State Senator whose investigating the matter in depth.

You are the dogs.

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 10:04 AM  

I embarrassed them every chance I got. The key is to know the law and know their triggers, etc. and know their limits and where they feel comfortable cracking open your skull.

I still embarrass a cop every chance I get if he is aggressive toward me or someone else for now good reason.


Well, so do I, but I wouldn't recommend it (which was the first part of my sentence). I mean, I pushed the local cops hard enough that I was legitimately afraid that I might be suicide by copped at some point. Or single car accident. Or whatever.

They do not like to be challenged. They do not like be to be disciplined. They do not like citizen oversight. Universally in my experience.

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 10:05 AM  

Can I call harassment if a woman makes her desire to have sex with me known before I have expressed any interest in her?

WRong thread. I will take over to the right one.

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2013 10:08 AM  

Makes the case for arming every citizen in case they are attacked by "terrorist chihuaha's"..................

Anonymous Daniel July 02, 2013 10:11 AM  

A dog rushing at you and barking is not necessarily an attack.

If I shot every dog that ever rushed me, barking, Brownell's would be out of ammo. Seriously, have these cops never heard a dog bark before? Shooting a dog is just stupid, and less effective than pep-spraying them. Even with an automatic, nothing beats a continuous stream of 25-foot blinding spray, for accuracy, certainty, and control. Of course, any idiot would know that not even that is appropriate when the animal is leashed!

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 10:13 AM  

Well, so do I, but I wouldn't recommend it (which was the first part of my sentence). I mean, I pushed the local cops hard enough that I was legitimately afraid that I might be suicide by copped at some point. Or single car accident. Or whatever.

They do not like to be challenged. They do not like be to be disciplined. They do not like citizen oversight. Universally in my experience.


Don't worry, the state is just protecting those who need it. From themselves when necessary.

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 10:14 AM  

Makes the case for arming every citizen in case they are attacked by "terrorist chihuaha's"..................

If it saves one child...

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 10:15 AM  

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=WiX7GTelTPM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWiX7GTelTPM

Anonymous Cinco July 02, 2013 10:16 AM  

Well, I just re-watched the video.

A few things come to mind.

First, the cop that shoots the dog, is not one the two cops that arrest the black guy. He walks into view shortly after the arrest (which was totally unlawful/unjustified). That cop is probably going to say, I had no idea idea whose dog it even was (which may be truthful).

Second, none if this occurs if the cops don't make the arrest in the first place.

When are people going to take a stand against this bullshit. Police don't like being filmed, boohoo. Neither do I, I don't get to lock a person in a cage for filming me on the street. Google glass is sounding better all the time.

Anonymous Anonymous July 02, 2013 10:21 AM  

Rosby says that police would not return his dog's body to him.

This is the real kicker. If they had shot the dog out of honest self-defense, or just a fear reaction, they'd at least give the body back to the guy so he could bury it. This is just rubbing salt in the wound because they can.

I have never had problems with law enforcement in smaller communities such as sub 50,000.

They're changing fast. A couple generations ago, the Andy Taylor image wasn't that far from the truth in a lot of small towns (remember that in the pilot, Andy pretty much railroads an out-of-town guy who has no recourse because Andy was also the Justice of the Peace).

But today, the average white, small-town cop is usually someone who got his Tough Guy badge driving a tank around in Desert Storm trying to find something to shoot at. 9/11 funding has given him lots of cool SWAT equipment and training that he never gets to use. He's had all the proper diversity training, and he knows who the real terrorists are: right-wing conservative anti-government types (he hunts and maybe even listens to Rush Limbaugh, but he's not one of those conservatives). He has absolutely none of the stereotypical small-town cop's reasonableness or willingness to apply common sense to a situation.

Anonymous inhumanist July 02, 2013 10:30 AM  

I am sick of people and their dogs. It has become a widespread mental illness. I am going to start shooting dogs at the mall in their gay little hand bags with the freaking sweaters on. Maybe even shoot their owners a couple times too. Why do people want to hang around with "best friends" who will eat their own, or your own feces, without hesitation? I have a welsh corgie, and it is useful for working the farm. Sometimes I consider shooting it when it eats cat feces.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 02, 2013 10:31 AM  

6.1% credit contraction in Spain.

What are the numbers elsewhere.

Anonymous Phalluster July 02, 2013 10:35 AM  

Who cares about some jig's dog? Go write more dwarf romance novels you faggot.

Anonymous Salt July 02, 2013 10:35 AM  

What the hell are cops going to do when GOOGLE-glass becomes everywhere?

If the PTB wants surveillance, fine. Lets give it to them!

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2013 10:36 AM  

Inhumanist..... there are people in San Francisco who eat feces for titillation.......

What do we do with them?

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 10:40 AM  

Who cares about some jig's dog? Go write more dwarf romance novels you faggot.

I admit it, I laughed.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 July 02, 2013 10:43 AM  

What the hell are cops going to do when GOOGLE-glass becomes everywhere?

Oh I'm sure Google has already installed some counter-measure that let's police remotely shut the camera off, or the glasses will sense close-proximity to a chip soon to be installed in all badges that forces the unit to do a hard shutdown.
Surveillance is only meant to swing in one direction, plebeians...

Anonymous The other skeptic July 02, 2013 10:44 AM  

Who cares about some jig's dog? Go write more dwarf romance novels you faggot.

That's a genre that Aliette de non-Bodacious would be more suited to, surely.

Anonymous Lemmenkainen July 02, 2013 10:45 AM  

I worked armed security about 20 years ago and had a pit charge at me to bite. Didn't have pepper spray (our boss was a old school clown who thought pepper spray was no better than tear gas) so I stuck my Streamlight flashlight in it's mouth then kicked it in the abdomen, and it ran off. Not the dog's fault it's owner is an a-hole.

I did draw down on a raccoon growling at me from on top a dumpster once.

Cops should be willing to take risks above and beyond what we have to. It's what they're paid to do. If they have a problem with that they should get a job making honest money, like fluffers on a porn shoot or something.

Anonymous righteous gobbler July 02, 2013 10:45 AM  

I thought that I might post an opinion or comment but...

I can't even bring myself to watch the video.

Maybe later when I can steel myself.

Blogger Cinco July 02, 2013 10:46 AM  

First, they shot rottweilers and I said nothing. Then they shot the German Shepherds and I said nothing. Then they came for the pittbulls and still I did nothing. Then they came for the shih-tzu's...

Anonymous Porky July 02, 2013 10:46 AM  

dh: "I agree. Death penalty for police brutality or misconduct is a fair trade off."

Yeah, shoot a dog - get the chair. Leftist justice. Because gay.



Anonymous ThirdMonkey July 02, 2013 10:52 AM  

Know your target and what's behind it. There were people all around. At the very least, he should be prosecuted for negligent discharge of a firearm. I guess he did it because 3 "officers" are no match for Cujo. Steveo is right. Law enforcement are trained that gun=bad, and that a dog is nothing but a mouth full of edged weapons.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 10:53 AM  

Yeah, shoot a dog - get the chair. Leftist justice. Because gay.

So Vox is also a leftist and gay? He's the one who proposed it. Dh is just agreeing with him.

Anonymous CLK July 02, 2013 10:55 AM  

"I am sick of people and their dogs. It has become a widespread mental illness. I am going to start shooting dogs at the mall in their gay little hand bags with the freaking sweaters on. Maybe even shoot their owners a couple times too."

Replace dog with cat and I am right with you :) but dogs are great and I prefer the company of most dogs over most people...

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 10:57 AM  

Yeah, shoot a dog - get the chair. Leftist justice. Because gay.

It's not about the dog, though that part is unfortunate. It's about abusing the public trust. We spend billions or even a trillion dollars a year on domestic law enforcement. They get extensive training and support. They must be held to the highest standard.

Extorting blow jobs from hookers? Death penalty.

Helping yourself to evidence locker? Death penalty.

Planting a drop piece? Death penalty.

Escalating a situation and going directly to shooting? Death penalty.

If we are going to have a state with the power to kill people, it should be used to enforce and build up the public trust.

Blogger JACIII July 02, 2013 10:57 AM  

We are witnessing the occupational "safety" fetish being applied to the act of police work. There is no upper limit check to the police-safe/populace-endangered curve. We are expendable to the cause of "government enforcement employee occupational safety".
This coupled with the self selecting population of power seeking punks that seek membership in the badge gang results in what we are witnessing more and more often.

Asshats. The lot of them.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 11:01 AM  

Extorting blow jobs from hookers? Death penalty.Helping yourself to evidence locker? Death penalty.Planting a drop piece? Death penalty.Escalating a situation and going directly to shooting? Death penalty.

Awesome.

Anonymous Porky July 02, 2013 11:01 AM  

So Vox is also a leftist and gay?

No, Brownie, he's not.

Is it entirely shocking to you that emotionally charged issues sometimes lead people to embrace leftist behavior?

Anonymous Bah July 02, 2013 11:04 AM  

Assuming he was actually attacked by the dog, yes. He's not trained, he doesn't have a baton or a taser, etc. A dog rushing at you and barking is not necessarily an attack.

If a black guy's pit bull or rottweiler rushes at you, you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid NOT to regard it as an attack.

There is no reason for the police to risk being bitten - as I am quite sure they are anyway.

Anonymous Mr. Pea July 02, 2013 11:05 AM  

Yeah, shoot a dog - get the chair. Leftist justice. Because gay.

Yeah, but they are shooting dogs with the same regularity that they are shooting/beating unarmed/innocent people. In the name of ossifer safety of course. And because it is a... rush. The power over life. And any life... is life.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 11:07 AM  

Is it entirely shocking to you that emotionally charged issues sometimes lead people to embrace leftist behavior?

Stricter penalties for police misconduct is leftist behavior?

Anonymous ThirdMonkey July 02, 2013 11:07 AM  

Somewhat OT, but this reminds me of something that might be helpful for those who encounter dogs on a regular basis.

Several years ago while elk hunting, we had a problem with a pair of orphaned bear cubs getting into our camp. We tried warning shots with a .45, loud noises, and pepper spray, to no avail. What finally rid us of the little theives was a very bright Streamlight flashlight right in their eyes. Among the things I take with me when I go out in the neighborhood with my kids is a flashlight. The dogs HATE that light in their eyes. I've only had to do it to a couple of dogs, but they now keep a wide berth from me and my kids. One of them, a boxer mix, will drag his owner across the street if he sees me.

This whole thing might've been prevented with a flashlight.

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 11:10 AM  

on a brighter note, even Mexifornian juries gat it right sometimes:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SAN_DIEGO_CHALK_PROTEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-01-21-11-47

Blogger Tiny Tim July 02, 2013 11:11 AM  

Thanks ThirdMonkey....... good advice.

Anonymous Laz July 02, 2013 11:12 AM  

"At the most, the guy was guilty maybe of public and annoying videotaping, but I don't believe this is a crime yet."

The Police call it obstruction.

" A badge doesn't automatically mean I have to show respect...nor will I."

Try again. They can and will legally arrest you for disrespecting a cop.

"Remember, "To Protect And Serve" never specified who they protect and serve."

That went out the door twenty years ago when the Supreme Court ruled they ARE NOT there to protect and serve. Hence the proliferation of concealed carry laws and stand-you-ground laws.

"Some people shouldn't be allowed to own dogs.

Commie.

Should some people not be allowed to own guns?"

Apples and oranges. A dog is a living creature, a gun is an inanimate object.

Anonymous Porky July 02, 2013 11:13 AM  

dh: "They get extensive training and support. They must be held to the highest standard.

Extorting blow jobs from hookers? Death penalty."


Typical leftist emotional knee-jerk overkill reactionary bullshite. I wonder if you would apply the same standard to the government officials who empower and fund the police? Would you apply the same standard to a government that has been entrusted with the power to kill you, your family and pretty much every human on earth several times over? How about a President who kills a ten year old boy in a drone strike? Death penalty, dh?

Anonymous WG July 02, 2013 11:13 AM  

ACAB (All Cops Are Bastards).

Anonymous CarpeOro July 02, 2013 11:14 AM  

Starting to feel like the movie "Night of the Generals". Only one German officer really trying to track down a murderer during the war. He does so in Warsaw, then years later in Paris. Gets killed for doing a job that no one in power wants him to do... and none of the civilians particularly trust him. Great movie with Omar Sharif and Peter O'Toole in major roles.

Anonymous Porky July 02, 2013 11:18 AM  

Stricter penalties for police misconduct is leftist behavior?

No. Death penalty for misconduct is leftist behavior. They usually prefer to do it at night. A signed confession usually provided. Some kind of mock trial is usually needed to give the impression of due process. Leftists are funny that way.

Anonymous Jeffrey S. July 02, 2013 11:18 AM  

"And spare me the "few bad apples" nonsense. If you're wearing a badge these days, you are part of the problem."

Haven't you read your Mencius Moldbug? Check out his chart of London crime in the 20th Century -- the cops can do good work in the West if they have the proper tools and support. Haven't you yourself noticed the difference between the races in the U.S. with respect to their ability to maintain civilization? I thank God for the hard work the police are doing and want very much for the bad apples to be punished and used to help good policemen (I don't think women have any business doing police work, but that is a story for another day) understand how to do their jobs properly.

Look, I'm sure your answer to me will be something along the lines of: get a gun and defend yourself from the savages, but what if I'm happy to outsource that work to the cops? Plus, part of what they do is keep the savages out of my neighborhood -- I don't want to have to patrol the borders!

Anonymous RINO July 02, 2013 11:19 AM  

Hey, remember that time everyone on this blog was fawning over an ex-KGB Russian stromgan?

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 11:19 AM  

Apples and oranges. A dog is a living creature, a gun is an inanimate object.

Should some people not be allowed to have children, then?

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 11:21 AM  

Haven't you read your Mencius Moldbug?

Moldbug is a vastly overrated midwit whose primary contribution seems to be making other midwits feel smart about themselves. He's the right wing blog equivalent of NPR.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 02, 2013 11:22 AM  

This whole thing might've been prevented with a flashlight

I don't think that would have driven off the dangerous animals in this case. Too many cops wear sunglasses.

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 11:22 AM  

Typical leftist emotional knee-jerk overkill reactionary bullshite. I wonder if you would apply the same standard to the government officials who empower and fund the police? Would you apply the same standard to a government that has been entrusted with the power to kill you, your family and pretty much every human on earth several times over? How about a President who kills a ten year old boy in a drone strike? Death penalty, dh?

1. If we are going to have a government that kills, then yes, we should use it how you describe.

2. I do not accept the right of the government to kill its citizens in any case, whether guilty of a crime or not. And I inherently distrust the police who seem to be too happy to shoot first and cover-up later.

3. Yes, I support 100% a move to charge Pres. Obama and his whole chain of command for his horrific and I believe illegal drone program. If convicted I support the death penalty.

4. If the government wants to declare war, then we can talk. Otherwise, they should not be in the killing business.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 11:23 AM  

I thank God for the hard work the police are doing and want very much for the bad apples to be punished and used to help good policemen (I don't think women have any business doing police work, but that is a story for another day) understand how to do their jobs properly.

How often are these bad apples punished? And is a cop really a good cop if he's not weeding out the bad apples in his department?

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 11:24 AM  

but what if I'm happy to outsource that work to the cops?

Division of labor is one thing, but when you start outsourcing basic responsibilities, you soon find that you have outsourced basic rights along with them.

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 11:25 AM  

This whole thing might've been prevented with a flashlight

I don't think that would have driven off the dangerous animals in this case. Too many cops wear sunglasses.

awesome

Blogger Nate July 02, 2013 11:28 AM  

"Moldbug is a vastly overrated midwit whose primary contribution seems to be making other midwits feel smart about themselves. He's the right wing blog equivalent of NPR."

That's being awful charitable. Moldbug is one of most verbose morons on the internet.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 11:29 AM  

No. Death penalty for misconduct is leftist behavior. They usually prefer to do it at night. A signed confession usually provided. Some kind of mock trial is usually needed to give the impression of due process. Leftists are funny that way.

You continue to show how retarded and incapable of both reading and logical thinking you are.

Vox specifically said shooting a dog. You said that was leftist behavior, and now you've equated that with stalinist purges and show trials. And don't hide behind the "misconduct" ambiguity. You also originally said "shoot a dog, get the chair".

One can only conclude that you are either a cop yourself or a boot licking cop sympathizer.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey July 02, 2013 11:32 AM  

but what if I'm happy to outsource that work to the cops?

Are you personally writing a check to your local PD for this? No. Their salaries are being paid by taxes, fines, and tickets confiscated from citizens. You are asking the collective to chip in and pay for your security. This is a form of welfare. Learn how to take care of yourself and your own property. Don't abdicate that responsblity and ask others to do so for you at the point of a gun.

Anonymous Laz July 02, 2013 11:32 AM  

"...but what if I'm happy to outsource that work to the cops?"

The last time an emergency happened, how long did it take the cops to get there? What are you gonna do during the couple of minutes (minimum)it takes the cops to get there when they're raping and killing your family?

"Should some people not be allowed to have children, then?"

Good question. I'll have to think about that.

Anonymous Anonymous July 02, 2013 11:33 AM  

Should some people not be allowed to have children, then?
In the legal sense, no.
But, in an ideal sense, hell yes, freaking look around, nothing would improve the world faster than if a good portion of it stopped breeding.
Same answer for dogs. If we could magically make it so ignorant half-wit black, white, and brown trash could only own miniature poodles we would all be better off.
We don’t need to ban pits and rotts, just need stupid people to stop owning them.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 11:33 AM  

That's being awful charitable. Moldbug is one of most verbose morons on the internet.

He did use about ten thousand words (if not more) attempting to explain prices and supply and demand. I imagine printing off his bloated screeds would require all the trees in middle TN.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 11:35 AM  

We don’t need to ban pits and rotts, just need stupid people to stop owning them.

We also need stupid people to stop owning guns too, right?

Anonymous jay c July 02, 2013 11:36 AM  

He should have had Steve Gibson's Portable Dog Killer.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 02, 2013 11:37 AM  

"Remember, "To Protect And Serve" never specified who they protect and serve."

That went out the door twenty years ago when the Supreme Court ruled they ARE NOT there to protect and serve. Hence the proliferation of concealed carry laws and stand-you-ground laws.


And yet you still see that slogan on their patrol cars. You forget that they are there to serve and protect. Just not the people that the slogan implied.

Blogger pcbedamned July 02, 2013 11:37 AM  

"Then you let go of the owner and tell him to control his dog. Or you use your baton and/or taser to get it under control. You don't kill it."

EXACTLY. At least here in Ontario,Canada they use Pepper Spray {not impressed with this, but far better than a gun}.

One night my dogs {I have 4} were barking like crazy. Seeing as how I live in the country and am the only house on the road, I assumed it was just the deer across in the field torturing them as usual {we have Invisible Fencing and they know they can't leave the property}. Finally I went to check it out, and I see an OPP officer at the bottom of my stairs reaching to his side. The youngest of the bunch was NOT letting him anywhere near the stairs to come up to the door. I called him off, and all was fine. When I questioned the Officer about his actions {re: reaching to his side, as I did not know he was reaching for the spray}, he informed my it was their Policy, as the spray is enough to stop the animal in their tracks. Hurts, but not lethal.
*note* - this is the OPP {Ontario Provincial Police}. I cannot speak for other Provinces, or local Police Forces.

Anonymous 204 July 02, 2013 11:38 AM  

Dog was not leashed.

If I thought a dog was going to bite me, I'd shoot it first too.

Anonymous Copperhead Joe July 02, 2013 11:39 AM  

There seems to be an assumption here that they were arresting him for recording video (and almost all of the articles that come up on a search have this in the headline). Cops claim he was playing loud music while they were investigating an armed robbery, making it difficult to hear witness statements. Not justification for the shooting, but illegal everywhere I have lived and absolutely justification for the handcuffing. Doubtlessly a deliberate attempt to antagonize the cops. Set a bad tone.

Blogger RobertT July 02, 2013 11:43 AM  

Notice how fat the police officers are.

Blogger RobertT July 02, 2013 11:44 AM  

Since when is filming a cop illegal?

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 11:44 AM  

Typical leftist emotional knee-jerk overkill reactionary bullshite. I wonder if you would apply the same standard to the government officials who empower and fund the police? Would you apply the same standard to a government that has been entrusted with the power to kill you, your family and pretty much every human on earth several times over? How about a President who kills a ten year old boy in a drone strike? Death penalty, dh?

I would consider contributory responsibility for those who fund out of control police, absolutely. City council, oversight boards, etc. Unless especially egregious you would not typically be able to get a murder conviction for contributing to a death. But surely, negligent homicide, manslaughter, etc. You can put a deadly weapon out on the streets and then claim ignorance when they go predictably astray.

As far as entrusting the police or the government to kill, I strongly disagree. I don't trust them, and I don't agree with policies to allow the government to kill, especially citizens. Declared war, civil insurrection, we can talk.

How about a President who kills a ten year old boy in a drone strike? Death penalty, dh?

I 100% support a move to impeach, remove, and then criminal prosecute Pres. Obama and his whole chain of command who operates and facilitate the horrific and execrable drone program. And I voted for the man, twice.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey July 02, 2013 11:45 AM  

Everyone should be allowed to have children, guns, and dogs.

Children belong in a home with a father and mother.
Guns belong in the hands of citizens, not government.
Dogs are wonderful, but they belong outside.

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 11:46 AM  

Not justification for the shooting, but illegal everywhere I have lived and absolutely justification for the handcuffing. Doubtlessly a deliberate attempt to antagonize the cops. Set a bad tone.

Really? Noise violations are a civil offense. Get a ticket.

Antagonizing the cops in not wrong, or illegal. They can take the questioning of witnesses anywhere.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 11:47 AM  

And I voted for the man, twice.

Why did you vote for him the second time?

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 11:52 AM  

And I voted for the man, twice.
...
I would consider contributory responsibility...Unless especially egregious you would not typically be able to get a murder conviction for contributing to a death. But surely, negligent homicide, manslaughter, etc. You can put a deadly weapon out on the streets and then claim ignorance when they go predictably astray.

Physician, heal thyself.

Blogger redlegben July 02, 2013 11:53 AM  

I see the videos and read the stories about all the abuse by cops, but I haven't had problems with cops in years. My local cops have been very polite and respectful.

I've also loved what I have been seeing from the Milwaukee County Sheriff. One of the first things the guy said was citizens should arm themselves. He recorded it as a public service message.

Anonymous Anonymous July 02, 2013 11:57 AM  

We also need stupid people to stop owning guns too, right?

Correct. On my magical island ignorant, half-wit, gutter trash would choose not to own pit-bulls, guns, or breed.

But here in the real world I think they should be allowed to own/do all those things. As a result of maintaining freedom for all we get the joys of children being mauled by dogs, drive by shootings, and children being raised by thugs who will grow to become thugs.

Essential liberty for all is messy, worth it, but messy.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 12:02 PM  

I see the videos and read the stories about all the abuse by cops, but I haven't had problems with cops in years. My local cops have been very polite and respectful

Yeah, about that:

http://m.jsonline.com/more/news/watchdog/watchdogreports/milwaukee-police-misconduct-has-cost-city-14-million-group-says-4a7nm17-180228831.html

A coalition of residents Tuesday presented the U.S. attorney's office with hundreds of pages of documentation they say proves Milwaukee police have violated citizens' rights through using excessive force, engaging in racial profiling and generating misconduct complaints that have cost taxpayers more than $14 million over the past 10 years.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/45597332.html?lc=Smart

MILWAUKEE - Milwaukee ranks high on an unwelcome list. USA Today ranked the city second in the country for police brutality.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 12:03 PM  

Essential liberty for all is messy, worth it, but messy.

Agreed.

Anonymous Clay July 02, 2013 12:06 PM  

I'll bet the dogs in Milwaukee are assholes, too.

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni July 02, 2013 12:06 PM  

"Moldbug is one of most verbose morons on the internet..."
Oh, I don't know that posting a couple of thousand words every three months or so qualifies as "verbose". Especially when most of the words aren't his. But I will say MM has led me to several interesting authors, such as J. Evola and de Maistre.

Or was that Vox? I keep getting the two of them confused.

Oh, as to the dog, I hate dogs.

Blogger Aviator4 July 02, 2013 12:07 PM  

What shocks me the most here is not the shooting of the dog, but that only one of the 3-4 cops present was clearly overweight and/or borderline obese. In my experience, 60-70% of cops are in the grossly overweight or obese category. Just 30 years ago, cops mostly were a model of physical fitness and ruggedness. These days they're primarily a model for "before" pictures in weight loss ads.

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 12:07 PM  

Why did you vote for him the second time?
Gov. Romney promised to "double guantanamo" and bring back the torture program started under Pres. Bush.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 12:09 PM  

Or was that Vox? I keep getting the two of them confused.

How is that possible? For one, Vox can actually explain things clearly. Moldbug is incapable of that.

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 12:12 PM  

Gov. Romney promised to "double guantanamo" and bring back the torture program started under Pres. Bush.

You should know that you can't trust anything said by Romney in the course of a campaign...

Anonymous Cinco July 02, 2013 12:12 PM  

You know the root issue here remains unaddressed. Do animals (non-humans) have rights? I say the crime here is destruction of private property (the dog, by the police) maybe unlawful discharge of a firearm, etc. but I really don't think that animals should have rights because I enjoy eating them. If you give my steak dinner rights, that really could be my breaking point.

Blogger redlegben July 02, 2013 12:15 PM  

Josh, the sheriff is new.

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 12:15 PM  

For one, Vox can actually explain things clearly. Moldbug is incapable of that.

Rambling complexity (often for complexity's sake) and an inability to get to the point are hallmarks of the mid-wit. But it certainly has an appeal to those who cannot see through it or are unwilling to do the heavy mental lifting for themselves.

Anonymous Noah B. July 02, 2013 12:16 PM  

I've seen many outrageous abuses of police power, but I'm not at all convinced this was one of them. I love dogs, but I probably would also have shot that particular dog under those circumstances.

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 12:16 PM  

You should know that you can't trust anything said by Romney in the course of a campaign...

True. But it was an applause line. Something he was proud of. He would bring back the legal team that argued:

Question: If the President deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?
Answer: No treaty.
Question: Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo.
Answer: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.

Anonymous dh July 02, 2013 12:17 PM  

but I probably would also have shot that particular dog under those circumstances

Maybe by the time it got to where it was that was the best/only choice. But part of the failure is letting it get to that point.

Anonymous Noah B. July 02, 2013 12:18 PM  

"If you give my steak dinner rights, that really could be my breaking point."

Might not be so bad...

You have the right to be tender and juicy. You have the right to be well marbled and not overcooked. If you are not adequately spiced, spices will be provided for you.

Anonymous JI July 02, 2013 12:19 PM  

You could see that dog was sniffing around the ground, he clearly wasn't going to attack. If I'd been one of the cops I'd have pet him and calmed him down.

This gets to one of the monsters that has been created - the move to military/SWAT-style tactics by the police means they have a tendency to escalate every situation, something the military and SWAT teams do to incapacitate and confuse the "enemy". In the old days, the police did not do that. Their goal was to get everyone to mellow so things could be figured out.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter July 02, 2013 12:21 PM  

Are the police shielded from civil suits if they claim their actions were in the line of duty?

Anonymous School is in session July 02, 2013 12:21 PM  

Ok, now a couple of you are getting silly, like when you blame 9/11 on alien lasers or bigfoot. Moldbug is not just more intelligent than you, he's more intelligent than VD. That is not a dig at VD, no more than if I said that Beckham is a better soccer player than VD. And if you can't understand Moldbug, I suggest spending some more time reading him and the reference material he gives, rather than dismissing inability to comprehend for a failing on his part. This isn't of course a statement as to who has the better political philosophy. That's because IQ alone is not sufficient for accepting reality as it is and integrating it into a viable worldview.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 12:23 PM  

Rambling complexity (often for complexity's sake) and an inability to get to the point are hallmarks of the mid-wit.

Agreed.

But it certainly has an appeal to those who cannot see through it or are unwilling to do the heavy mental lifting for themselves.

It lets them say, "I am smart! S-m-r-t!"

Anonymous Noah B. July 02, 2013 12:25 PM  

"But part of the failure is letting it get to that point."

It could have been handled better and I'm not sure what their plans for the dog were when they made the arrest. It's difficult to tell from this whether the arrest was justified or not. It doesn't seem that Rosby was arrested simply for taking video. Someone else was also taking video of Rosby, and there is no indication the police had any interaction with that person.

Blogger ajw308 July 02, 2013 12:26 PM  

You threaten or harm a police dog, they go after you as if it was a human officer. I think the same standard should apply.

Anonymous Noah B. July 02, 2013 12:26 PM  

"Are the police shielded from civil suits if they claim their actions were in the line of duty?"

Yeah. Pretty much.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter July 02, 2013 12:27 PM  

"Ok, now a couple of you are getting silly, like when you blame 9/11 on alien lasers or bigfoot. Moldbug is not just more intelligent than you, he's more intelligent than VD."

If he is so intelligent why can't he write so that people of lower intelligence can understand him?

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 12:28 PM  

Moldbug is not just more intelligent than you, he's more intelligent than VD

The first count is incorrect, and the second is laughably and ludicrously incorrect.

The man who creates a rube Goldberg machine to replace a wheel is not more intelligent than the man who uses the wheel or improves the wheel.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 July 02, 2013 12:29 PM  

Notice how fat the police officers are

Food Network has a show (or had) featuring one of Hawthorne PD's finest, an officer of generous rotundity, cruising around to all of the "good" food spots he'd found while on patrol.
Police are fat, now more than ever.
They drive.
Unions have diminished (and in many cases eliminated) the PT standards for an officer's entire career post-academy.
They're also fat because, you know, donut shops...

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 12:31 PM  

And if you can't understand Moldbug, I suggest spending some more time reading him and the reference material he gives, rather than dismissing inability to comprehend for a failing on his part.

The purpose of writing is to communicate. Go look at Moldbugs essay on prices and compare it to what Vox and Nate wrote in the great debate about prices and subjective value.

Who does the better job of explaining prices and value?

Blogger Mike July 02, 2013 12:39 PM  

If a man says, I was hungry. I wanted a sandwich. I didn't want to go all the way to the kitchen. The guy next to me had a sandwich, so I killed him and took his sandwich. He is displaying rationality - an evil, sociopathic, form of it, but rationality nonetheless - every reaction is linked logically to an action.

It is the same with the cop in the video. He is saying, "I'm the cop. I can do anything I want and you can't stop me. Also, I will never be held responsible for the consequences - to prove it to you, I will have you handcuffed, and then I will shoot your dog in front of you."

For everyone out there who is screaming about how wrong this is, or that the police should be sued, please understand that we now live in a world where wrong is defined as "That which I may be held to account for", and most definitely not, "that which is morally abhorrent based on some external standard".

Thus, shooting a member of a protected class to keep him from battering out your brains against the sidewalk = wrong. But being a cop, and shooting some guy's dog just to prove the point that you're the boss of him = not wrong.



Blogger ajw308 July 02, 2013 12:40 PM  

The ironic thing is this event was still filmed and distributed across the internet.

Having the dogs master control the dog would have required the cops give up control of the situation, something they are taught to never do.

Anonymous The One July 02, 2013 12:46 PM  

While picking peas at a local farm, a big dog came running straight at me with no owner in sight. My heart rate instantly increased, I took two steps back and I reached for my gun without thinking. If I had been threatening the owner (dog's point of view) and it had been a more vicious breed, no doubt I would of felt these reactions more keenly.

Having said the above, police officers are supposed to be trained to control such reactions and they have the option of the taser/baton, rather than the gun.

Anonymous Buck up young punk July 02, 2013 12:50 PM  

Any man who can't handle a dog coming up to him should not be allowed to own a firearm, either on the job or off.

Anonymous Jill July 02, 2013 1:04 PM  

I have no love for cops, even if there are some good small town cops. They are being trained in the military style, just like their big city counterparts. I can't trust a militarized police force.

Anonymous TJIC July 02, 2013 1:05 PM  

Nuremberg. Rope.

Anonymous The One July 02, 2013 1:05 PM  

That is ridiculous buck up young punk. The dog was not coming up to the officers, it was clearly looking to attack in defense of it's master.

Anonymous The One July 02, 2013 1:08 PM  

The dog wasn't coming up to the officers, it was clearly looking to attack in defense of it's master.

Anonymous Porky July 02, 2013 1:13 PM  

dh: "I would consider contributory responsibility for those who fund out of control police, absolutely. City council, oversight boards, etc. and Unless especially egregious you would not typically be able to get a murder conviction for contributing to a death. But surely, negligent homicide, manslaughter, etc."

So it's a murder conviction now for shooting a dog, is it? I can't say how shocked I am to hear that a leftist would like to confer human rights unto an animal. Shocked I am.


I 100% support a move to impeach, remove, and then criminal prosecute Pres. Obama and his whole chain of command who operates and facilitate the horrific and execrable drone program. And I voted for the man, twice.....

...You can put a deadly weapon out on the streets and then claim ignorance when they go predictably astray.


So a cop defensively kills a dog and gets death.

Obama aggressively kills a little boy and... loses his job and faces prosecution that will go nowhere?

I love that leftist justice. Kill the cop. Because Stonewall. But major slaps on the wrist all around for my government. After all, it's not like Obama flew the drone himself.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter July 02, 2013 1:16 PM  

There is a new protected class, and the old one is not going to like it:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/352559/cornel-west-blacks-being-pushed-back-bus-favor-gays-and-lesbians-will-allen

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 1:18 PM  

So a cop defensively kills a dog and gets death. it wasn't defensive.

Cop lover.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner July 02, 2013 1:22 PM  

"I 100% support a move to impeach, remove, and then criminal prosecute Pres. Obama and his whole chain of command who operates and facilitate the horrific and execrable drone program. And I voted for the man, twice..... "

I don't vote, you want to know why, fuck you that's why, and fuck the PoPos too.

Anonymous GreyS July 02, 2013 1:22 PM  

We need a National Film-The-Police Day.

Anonymous The One July 02, 2013 1:26 PM  

it wasn't defensive. ~Josh

It was defensive. Do you honestly think the dog seeing multiple men surrounding his master jumped out of the car to lick those men? Even Vox acknowledges this which is why he says a taser/BAton could of been used instead.

Were the cops justified in making the arrest in the first place is the better question

Anonymous Porky July 02, 2013 1:27 PM  

Josh: "One can only conclude that you are either a cop yourself or a boot licking cop sympathizer."

It's interesting to witness how easily otherwise freedom and justice loving people turn hard to the left when emotion gets the best of them.

Sometimes the only way to demonstrate their sheer emotional knee-jerk insanity is to inject an equal amount of emotion into the opposite opinion.

For instance, Vox or dh or Josh if the shoe fits, let's assume for the sake of argument that the cop in question was your beloved first born son. (For whatever reason he went against your wishes and joined the force) He now faces death for...killing a dog. Do you see yourself posting a blog entry about how your son needs to die?

Begin dissembling in 3...2....1

Anonymous Raymur Bardroth July 02, 2013 1:29 PM  

You give someone a hammer, and everything starts to look like a nail.

Anonymous VD July 02, 2013 1:29 PM  

As far as entrusting the police or the government to kill, I strongly disagree. I don't trust them, and I don't agree with policies to allow the government to kill, especially citizens.

All I can say is that you're one of the bestest lefties I've ever had the pleasure to encounter.

Anonymous VD July 02, 2013 1:33 PM  

For instance, Vox or dh or Josh if the shoe fits, let's assume for the sake of argument that the cop in question was your beloved first born son. (For whatever reason he went against your wishes and joined the force) He now faces death for...killing a dog. Do you see yourself posting a blog entry about how your son needs to die?

First, don't you know better than to appeal to emotion here? Second, no, I would never post such a blog entry for the obvious reason that I don't post about my family here.

Your turn. Would you argue that your beloved first born son should not face death if, for the sake of argument, he murdered and ate the neighbor's infant daughter?

Also, just to be clear, I oppose the state-enforced death penalty in all circumstances. Even for dog-killing cops. It's a slippery slope.

Anonymous Wendy July 02, 2013 1:33 PM  

I'm rather curious now about the circumstances regarding the cop killed by a cow...

Anonymous Porky July 02, 2013 1:34 PM  

Any man who can't handle a dog coming up to him should not be allowed to own a firearm, either on the job or off.

Yes, he should have told the dog to sit and then done that little "ssshh!" thing that Cesar Milan does.

Blogger IM2L844 July 02, 2013 1:34 PM  

I can't imagine a scenario where the societal path we're on ends well. It's going to get vulgar.

Anonymous The One July 02, 2013 1:34 PM  

Porky, once people become unhinged from biblical morality, anything goes...

Anonymous VD July 02, 2013 1:35 PM  

Begin dissembling in 3...2....1

Don't be ridiculous. You were never going to do anything but lose this point for the obvious reason that you clearly didn't even know my position on the death penalty.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 1:36 PM  

It was defensive. Do you honestly think the dog seeing multiple men surrounding his master jumped out of the car to lick those men? Even Vox acknowledges this which is why he says a taser/BAton could of been used instead.

I should clarify. It wasn't necessary to shoot the dog. There were other options available that wouldn't have resulted in killing the animal. It was an excessive use of force.

Anonymous The One July 02, 2013 1:41 PM  

"I should clarify. It wasn't necessary to shoot the dog. There were other options available that wouldn't have resulted in killing the animal. It was an excessive use of force." ~Josh

I agree. So does excessive force against an animal not made in G-d's image require the death of a human being made in G-d's image? Biblical morality says no.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey July 02, 2013 1:49 PM  

The police officer's actions constituted a use of force because the owner was deprived of his property. Was there due process? No. Do the exigency of the circumstance, especially since the circumstance was created by the police, objectivably reasonable? No. It was excessive. They deprived a man of his liberty because he was being an obnixious ass by playing his radio to loud and filming the police. Do those actions warrant him losing his liberty, albeit temporary? No. The excessive force was not against the animal, it was against the man's liberty and property. Both were objectivably unreasonable.

Anonymous Noah B. July 02, 2013 1:52 PM  

"I'm rather curious now about the circumstances regarding the cop killed by a cow..."

Wendy, here you go.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 1:56 PM  

I agree. So does excessive force against an animal not made in G-d's image require the death of a human being made in G-d's image? Biblical morality says no.

I'm against the death penalty. Although it's tempting to institute it only for punishing government officials.

Anonymous Porky July 02, 2013 1:57 PM  

First, don't you know better than to appeal to emotion here?

Gee, did you think that linking to a video of a dog writhing in agony as it bled to death in the street in front of his beloved owner was not emotional? Perhaps you should keep your own rhetoric pure in the future if you truly expect this of your guests.


"Would you argue that your beloved first born son should not face death if, for the sake of argument, he murdered and ate the neighbor's infant daughter?"

Hey wait... I though we weren't doing emotional rhetoric anymore. Make up your mind.

"Second, no, I would never post such a blog entry for the obvious reason that I don't post about my family here."

I didn't say "here".

Look, if you don't want to go there you don't have hide behind some technicality or some "rule" you made up. A simple "no" would suffice, because obviously NO ONE would argue that their son should die for shooting an animal. (dh may be an exception... we'll wait to hear from him on this matter)

At that point no further argument is necessary because we are left with the stark cognitive dissonance that looks like this - "I'd like to see the death penalty for cops who shoot dogs, unless it were my son."

That's emotion. It clouds judgement, and it tends to pull us hard to the left. That was my only point in this exercise. Believe me, that video made me want to punch that cop right in his donut receptacle because it was truly 100% the cops fault that it ended up like it did. But I can keep my emotions in check enough to know that death is not a just punishment for shooting an animal. Prison, for sure. But not death.

"Also, just to be clear, I oppose the state-enforced death penalty in all circumstances. Even for dog-killing cops. It's a slippery slope.

In this we can agree.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 1:58 PM  

Although had the man responded by shooting the cop, I wouldn't convict him for any crime. One has the right to defend one's life, liberty, and property.

Anonymous The One July 02, 2013 2:06 PM  

"Although had the man responded by shooting the cop, I wouldn't convict him for any crime. One has the right to defend one's life, liberty, and property." ~Josh

Is that your own opinion or do you think that is Biblically based?

Anonymous Porky July 02, 2013 2:07 PM  

"I would never post such a blog entry for the obvious reason that I don't post about my family here."

Lol! Dissembling.

Anonymous righteous gobbler July 02, 2013 2:08 PM  

@Cinco, lover of steak:

So their should not be any animal cruelty laws?

Another living creature should be thought of as just an inanimate object to be used, abused and discarded at the "owners" whim?

That view is ignorant, arrogant, and incredibily self centered.

Anonymous VD July 02, 2013 2:09 PM  

I didn't say "here".

I wouldn't post the blog entry at Alpha Game either. Those are the only two places I post blog entries. You're whining about "some technicality" when I am directly answering the question posed. It's hardly my fault you're not intelligent enough to construct your question to elicit the answers you are seeking.

Hey wait... I though we weren't doing emotional rhetoric anymore. Make up your mind.

Answer the question. I answered yours.

At that point no further argument is necessary because we are left with the stark cognitive dissonance that looks like this - "I'd like to see the death penalty for cops who shoot dogs, unless it were my son."

You're embarrassing yourself, Porky. The only cognitive dissonance is in your head.

Anonymous clk July 02, 2013 2:13 PM  

"So does excessive force against an animal not made in G-d's image require the death of a human being made in G-d's image? Biblical morality says no."

...and its just a coincident that God spelled backwards is Dog

Blogger Nate July 02, 2013 2:13 PM  

"Moldbug is not just more intelligent than you, he's more intelligent than VD. That is not a dig at VD, no more than if I said that Beckham is a better soccer player than VD. And if you can't understand Moldbug, I suggest spending some more time reading him and the reference material he gives, rather than dismissing inability to comprehend for a failing on his part. This isn't of course a statement as to who has the better political philosophy."

Can't understand Moldbug? Who claimed to not be able to understand him? Its like someone asked directions from Nashville to Vega Texas... I would say... Jump on 40 and head west. Take it all the way. Vega is just 40 miles or so past Amarillo. Moldbug however... would first take you to Indianapolis because some people who live in Vega now came from there. Then he would take you over to Chicago... because there is a plant outside Chicago that sends parts to another plant in Amarillo and Amarillo is near Vega. And 3 years of backroads and backtracking later... you would arrive in Vega... via New Mexico. Then you idiots would talk about how smart Moldbug is.

He's a smart guy in the sense that most folks with an IQ in the high 140s are smart. His talent... if you can call it that... is to explain simple concepts in such a way as to make them appear infinitely more complex than they actually are... so that those reading will think "wow he's smart."

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 2:14 PM  

You're embarrassing yourself, Porky. 

Well...at least he hasn't followed his porcine brethren into the azaleas...

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 2:17 PM  

Is that your own opinion or do you think that is Biblically based?

I would say the Bible does support that.

Anonymous Musashi July 02, 2013 2:18 PM  

Every one of them lives somewhere.

Anonymous Jeffrey S. July 02, 2013 2:20 PM  

As Wellington famously said (cribbing from Moldbug):

"pour la canaille, la mitraille".

Of course, this has nothing to do with the stupid cop who shot the dog, or other stupid cops who think they are in the military and occupying a hostile nation. So Vox and gang have some legitimate criticisms -- I just don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Anonymous Porky July 02, 2013 2:22 PM  

I wouldn't post the blog entry at Alpha Game either. Those are the only two places I post blog entries.

Sure, ok. Then my answer is also that I would never post anything about my family.

The only cognitive dissonance is in your head.

Your readers must then wonder why you are insisting that you "obviously" "never" post about your family when anyone can simply browse casually through the blog and see multiple instances where you quite obviously post about your family.

They must also wonder why in the OP you say you would like to see capital punishment for cops only to post hours later that you are against capital punishment for cops.

Dissembling. Cognitive Dissonance. Brought about by emotion.

It happens...even to superintellects.

Anonymous Jeffrey S. July 02, 2013 2:28 PM  

Here is a serious question, orthogonal to this post, to all of you who love to beat up on cops:

what do you think of the NYPD and specifically their stop and frisk law which seems to be working very well to help them stop violent crime?

Sailer has been very good on the subject lately:

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/06/hobbes-bloomberg-has-been-great-mayor.html

Blogger Markku July 02, 2013 2:29 PM  

They must also wonder why in the OP you say you would like to see capital punishment for cops only to post hours later that you are against capital punishment for cops.

What thread, what time?

Answer will be required.

Anonymous Stilicho July 02, 2013 2:33 PM  

what do you think of the NYPD and specifically their stop and frisk law which seems to be working very well to help them stop violent crime?

Bastinado sounds about right.

Anonymous Laz July 02, 2013 2:36 PM  

"And yet you still see that slogan on their patrol cars. You forget that they are there to serve and protect. Just not the people that the slogan implied."

Wrong. I've built cop cars, from many different jurisdictions in a major metropolitan area, for the last 3 years and in all that time 1 (yes, I said one) jurisdiction has had "serve and protect" on their cars.

Blogger Nate July 02, 2013 2:37 PM  

"what do you think of the NYPD and specifically their stop and frisk law which seems to be working very well to help them stop violent crime?"

It doesn't matter how good it is at stopping crime. it is abomination in a free society.

Do you want to be free? or merely crime free?

Anonymous Porky July 02, 2013 2:39 PM  

Answer will be required.

OP, and 1:33pm

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 2:40 PM  

Look....if you can stop anyone just because...and search them...it's a police state...

A better way to prevent minorities from committing crime would be to stop the war on drugs and end welfare and the minimum wage.

Anonymous Noah B. July 02, 2013 2:42 PM  

"what do you think of the NYPD and specifically their stop and frisk law which seems to be working very well to help them stop violent crime?"

Among other things, I think that NYC is blatantly lying about its crime statistics to make itself look better.

Anonymous The One July 02, 2013 2:42 PM  

"what do you think of the NYPD and specifically their stop and frisk law which seems to be working very well to help them stop violent crime?" ~Jeffrey S

Do you want to model a nation on a city that has more abortions then live births? You shall know them by their fruits. I lived in NYC and my dad was a NYC police officer, RUN from that crooked city.

Blogger Markku July 02, 2013 2:45 PM  

OP

Ah, right, didn't realize right away what the abbreviation meant.

I know what Vox is saying, but I'll let him speak for himself.

Anonymous Laz July 02, 2013 2:48 PM  

"OP, and 1:33pm"

Ouch. He's got ya there.

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 3:08 PM  

I'm guessing Vox is going to respond via a blog post

Blogger Bob Wallace July 02, 2013 3:11 PM  

"Should some people not be allowed to own guns?"

The police shouldn't be allowed to own guns.

As for some people not being allowed to own dogs...then Michael Vicks.

Anonymous CunningDove July 02, 2013 3:14 PM  

My friends have enjoyed reading about my misadventures with dogs as I run through the neighborhood near where I live. On more than one occasion I have had experiences where the dogs were behaving much like the one in the video, but through what can only be called super human restraint!!! I neither shot nor was bitten by these dogs. (one doberman, one stocky mix about the size of a small pit, one lab mix looking creature)

This situation could have been handled better by all involved. But it is certainly a trend to shoot the dogs. And it is a public relations issue. Just listen to the people responding in the video.

Blogger Nate July 02, 2013 3:35 PM  

"As for some people not being allowed to own dogs...then Michael Vicks."

What moron would grant the government the authority to say who can and can't own a giving thing? ANY given thing?

Anonymous Josh July 02, 2013 3:47 PM  

A liberal, Nate

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