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Wednesday, July 03, 2013

My convention policy

Inspired by McRapey's brave decision to tell the SF conventions of the world what is, and what is not, acceptable to the public, I too have decided to provide a list of hard requirements for my being a panelist, participant or Guest of Honor at a SF convention in the interest of making the world a better, safer, and more respectful place for everyone:

1. That the convention has a harassment policy, and that the harassment policy is clear on precisely how all Tor authors and editors will be harassing the other attendees, sexually, ocularly, olfactory and otherwise.  I mean, given the probability that McRapey is going to be running around in his little red pumps while "Hands" Frenkel is feeling up the lumpy protruberances of spike-haired shoggoths and the Toad of Tor is squatting in the corner croaking threats at all who pass it by, these are sights and sounds - and smells -  for which one desperately wants to be prepared.  Preferably with a hazmat suit and a flamethrower.

2. That the convention provide a list of the fawning terms by which I am to be addressed at all times by the attendees, by at least one and preferably more than one of the following: posting the list on their Website, placing it in their written and electronic programs, putting up flyers in the common areas, discussing the list at opening ceremonies or at other well-attended common events.

3. In cases when I am invited as a Guest of Honor, personal affirmation from the convention chair that I will be provided with two (2) attractive cisgendered women, age not to exceed 25, BMI not to exceed 18.5, and height no less than 5'6", dressed in age-appropriate Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders attire to serve as my personal entourage. Pictures of the prospective candidates are to be provided by email no less than two weeks prior to the event for my approval. 

Thank you for your support of my courage and goodthought. I will now bathe in the smug comfort of my self-regard.

On a tangential note, I would be remiss if I failed to show my support for the reinvention of SFWA as the Science Fiction and Fantasy Sexual Harassment Police.  In their feeding frenzy, the pinkshirts are demonstrating, more convincingly than I could ever have managed myself, that SFWA is no longer fit for purpose and is now essentially divorced from the business of writing and publishing science fiction.

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122 Comments:

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2013 11:14 AM  

In cases when I am invited as a Guest of Honor, personal affirmation from the convention chair that I will be provided with two (2) attractive young women, age not to exceed 25 and BMI not to exceed 18.5, dressed in appropriate Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders attire to serve as my personal entourage.

You should attach a footnote clarifying that these are cisgendered women, not post op transgendered women. Unless you're into the drag queen thing.

Anonymous Daniel July 03, 2013 11:14 AM  

At least the SFWA goes down swishing.

Anonymous N.KKK Racista: Hates every continent but Africa, which she dotes on July 03, 2013 11:14 AM  

The SFWA is now a dizzy version of our racist Dept. of Justice. Instead of Eric Holder, the SFWA has had two successive presidents who have no trouble in using racial and sexist rhetoric on the premise of defending SF from racial and sexist rhetoric. A neat trick if you have the life experience of a shut-in and a brain the size of a pea.

Somewhere in between there's sometimes a mention or two of SF and writing and stuff.

New SFWA motto: "WE ARE FUN AT PARTIES"

Anonymous VD July 03, 2013 11:16 AM  

You should attach a footnote clarifying that these are cisgendered women, not post op transgendered women.

An excellent point. Corrected. Also, it occurs to me there should be a height requirement. No stumpies.

Anonymous The other skeptic July 03, 2013 11:20 AM  

Similarly, they are ginning up a riot over a Zimmerman Verdict or trying to put pressure on the jury to convict.

Anonymous Krul July 03, 2013 11:20 AM  

So what did Scalzi say?

Let me guess: a bunch of drippy syrup about how sexism, racism, and sexual harrassment are NOT OKAY and THIS IS SERIOUS. Am I right?

Anonymous VD July 03, 2013 11:23 AM  

So what did Scalzi say?

He is posturing about how he won't go to any convention that doesn't have a sexual harassment policy to his liking. Because safety.

Anonymous Noah B. July 03, 2013 11:24 AM  

Good catch Josh. Not all surprises are good...

Anonymous Daniel July 03, 2013 11:26 AM  

It was basically the same 3 points as above, Krul.

Only boring.

What was funnier was Scalzi's promise the other day to take an entire year of silence regarding SFWA matters relevant to its governance, only to follow it up with about 3 or 4 posts, and a bunch of tweets...regarding SFWA matters.

Anonymous Salt July 03, 2013 11:27 AM  

He is posturing about how he won't go to any convention that doesn't have a sexual harassment policy to his liking.

All Scalzi needs is a chastity belt.

Anonymous DrTorch July 03, 2013 11:27 AM  

Pictures of the prospective candidates are to be provided by email no less than two weeks prior to the event for my approval.

You may need to specify this further. You want the photos to be recent, not a year ago before they got their hair cut short, got that really cool tribal tag, or had that nasty complexion outbreak. You also don't want the photos to arrive too early and have them put on 20 lbs in the interim (although that may be covered by the BMI specification).

Contracts can be challenging. I applaud you for your altruism and perserverence.

Anonymous KnochelBIter July 03, 2013 11:28 AM  

I too have decided to provide a list of hard requirements for my being a panelist, participant or Guest of Honor at a SF convention…
 
I’m pretty sure this isn’t something you have to worry about.

Anonymous Daniel July 03, 2013 11:31 AM  

Salt
All Scalzi needs is a chastity belt.

All Scalzi is is a Chastity Bono.

Anonymous KKK Tempest Racist: the Ace Bandage Mummy Who Looks 50 yrs. old July 03, 2013 11:33 AM  

I don't understand why Scalzi didn't insist on authoritative statements concerning murder, U.S. sovereignty, kidnapping, drug possession, a minimum percentage of non-whites, death sentences, prisoner exchanges, killing children, raping endangered species, pedophilia, stomping on people's arches, first aid stations for old-before-their-time dykes with fibromyalgia and arthritis at only 40, free ace-bandages and oxygen cylinders, wheel chairs, heart attack inducing stairs sealed off, stop-and-frisk and a 4 second limit on looking at anyone.

Anonymous Pterodactyl July 03, 2013 11:42 AM  

Dallas Cowboys, really? This seems like the perfect opportunity for real-life versions of skimpy fantasy heroine armor.

Chainmail bikinis, anyone?

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2013 11:48 AM  

Similarly, they are ginning up a riot over a Zimmerman Verdict or trying to put pressure on the jury to convict.

I am personally not worried about anything happening in Sanford. The police department is full of salty WWII veterans who know how to take care of business.

Anonymous Jill July 03, 2013 11:53 AM  

I'm considering androgyny.

Anonymous Noah B. July 03, 2013 11:53 AM  

@KKK

Because all of those things pale in comparison to sexual harassment. (Especially killing children.)

Anonymous JonBrom July 03, 2013 11:54 AM  

My policy is that I will not attend any Con that has Scalzi as a panelist, guest of honor, male impersonator....

Also, they must issue a written condemnation of MSG in Chinese food. Enuff is enuff!

Anonymous Stilicho July 03, 2013 11:55 AM  

He is posturing about how he won't go to any convention that doesn't have a sexual harassment policy to his liking. Because safety.

Given the nature of the photos Jim Hines has been sending him, I'd say he's right to be a little worried.

Anonymous SFWABot July 03, 2013 11:57 AM  

FYI, this post counts as Rape.

Anonymous Stilicho July 03, 2013 11:58 AM  

I am personally not worried about anything happening in Sanford. The police department is full of salty WWII veterans who know how to take care of business.

There they were, no shit, knee deep in grenade pins, er uh, traffic citations or something. Just remember, there are no atheists in donut holes!

Anonymous DrTorch July 03, 2013 11:58 AM  

I am personally not worried about anything happening in Sanford. The police department is full of salty WWII veterans who know how to take care of business.

I really did lol.

Anonymous stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2013 11:59 AM  

There I was, on Walking Street, knee deep in hookers!

Oo-rah!

Anonymous kh123 July 03, 2013 12:07 PM  

Sycophantic Fascist Wringers of (soon to be cleansed of evil whitey) America.

Little more zing to it. And it states their political and publishing platform upfront in the title.

Anonymous hygate July 03, 2013 12:13 PM  

Why would anyone not a part of the hive voluntarily attend any kind of social event with these people? Going to a convention with such a group would seem to have all the potential fun as a colonoscopy performed without anesthesia.

Anonymous Noah B. July 03, 2013 12:15 PM  

@hygate

See #3 above.

Anonymous kh123 July 03, 2013 12:15 PM  

...Continuing with the hatred of all things goy and WASP:

Political insight via MSNBC, gifs, and Tumblr.

Translation: Affirmative Action - to keep evil whitey from being evil.

Anonymous VD July 03, 2013 12:16 PM  

Why would anyone not a part of the hive voluntarily attend any kind of social event with these people?

Good point. I went once, as a panelist on two panels at a big convention in Minneapolis. It was... an experience. And not one to be repeated.

Anonymous Daniel July 03, 2013 12:16 PM  

I'm considering androgyny.

Please, Jill. This is no place for androcentrism. The proper term is transconsiderate neutercurious.

Anonymous frappee July 03, 2013 12:21 PM  

You should not adopt their deviant language, even in jest. Replace 'cisgender' with 'normal and sane (although we are talking about women, so the usual caveats apply)'

Anonymous Daniel July 03, 2013 12:30 PM  

It's not adoption, frappee. It's making the demands very clear. You don't sign your soul to the devil without reading the fine print, otherwise you find yourself at Amoebacon flanked by Octomom and Furry Hines in '79 Redskinette uniforms.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Well, except the obvious.

Anonymous Noah B. July 03, 2013 12:34 PM  

As long as we're being as specific as possible -- better make knowing your thing.

Anonymous TWS July 03, 2013 12:34 PM  

Voxaconda? Voxasaurus? How should the wimmins wearing the Raquel Welch fur bikinis or slave Leah costumes address you Vox?

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter July 03, 2013 12:41 PM  

Maybe Scalzi is hinting at the sexual harassment he wants.

Blogger Subversive Saint July 03, 2013 12:45 PM  

"...The proper term is transconsiderate neutercurious" - Daniel


That's what my dog said...

Anonymous NateM July 03, 2013 12:47 PM  

They have finally made coins pointless by alienating awkward odd looking (usually white) males, the main group they appeal to. My sister posted a link to an article written by her friend about creep shaming at cons, as well as women using common sense to avoid danger. I replied " As for women using common sense to avoid danger I need only point to all the women defending Aaron Hernandez on Twitter because "he's hot" despite his being charged with multiple brutal murders"

Anonymous Anonymous July 03, 2013 12:47 PM  


Joetexx here again.

Whatever happens in Sanford or elsewhere due to the Zimmerman trial,
"Salty WWII veterans" will have nothing to do with policing it.

Please, stg58, can't you count?

Consider the last year of America's wars which have living veterans, and the minimum enlistment age (17).

WWII. 1945. Youngest possible vets are 85 years of age. They can push their walkers to the riots, I guess.

Korea. 1953. Youngest vets are 77 (born 1936).

Vietnam. 1975. Youngest vets are 55, so they could still be active street cops, but they are already pushing retirement age.

I grew up knowing WWII and Korea vets who were still young men, so it was a jolt to me in recent years to realize how old America's living war vets are. (Pre Gulf Wars, that is).

At the VA hospital some years back I met a crusty and delightful oldster who was a bona fide vet of the Chosin Frozen. Bronze star. He was 19 in 1950 and this was about 2007, so he was already well past 70.

All honor to salty vets, but the riots of 2013 will have to be dealt with by relative youngsters.

And as John McCarthy said, "He who will not do the math is doomed talk nonsense".

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2013 12:52 PM  

/facepalm

Anonymous Steveo July 03, 2013 12:52 PM  

What's funny is... Scalzi still thinks his behavior will get him laid by that office hot chick w/ the tight spandex dress and a maybe thong.

What will disabuse him of that notion is seeing the scruffy dude w/ the UPS shorts, whisper in her ear and touch her spandex lightly... inviting her for a little truck time... and have her drop her copies off in his hand cause he'll be such a dear and all to run them while she's gone. AND HE WILL!

I gotta vomit.

Anonymous Huckleberry - 3rd Place Pig Wrangler, Schenectady County Fair July 03, 2013 12:55 PM  

All honor to salty vets, but the riots of 2013 will have to be dealt with by relative youngsters

Look up.
That's the punchline, wooshing over your head.
Way over your head...

Anonymous NateM July 03, 2013 12:55 PM  

*Cons

Blogger Eric Wilson July 03, 2013 1:07 PM  

Salty is my favorite part. I'm still cracking up.

Anonymous dh July 03, 2013 1:08 PM  

Anon--

I was born overseas but was adopted by American, very distant relatives when I was young. My adoptive father was an older gent by the time I came to the US. When I was 10, he had his 70th birthday.

He was born in the late 1920's, second to last of 12 children. His mother was his fathers second wife, and she was quite a bit younger than him.

My (adoptive) grandfather was born in 1860. His older brothers - my great-uncles fought in the US Civil War. His youngest brother was on the staff of General Otis, who fought the Philippine War in the late 1890's.

Anonymous Stilicho July 03, 2013 1:14 PM  

whooooshhhh....

Anonymous Anonymous July 03, 2013 1:15 PM  

Joetexx here.

@huckleberry;

Right you are. I am a clueless, humorless old fart with a badly rusted sense of irony, and stg zipped way over my head.

But I earned my colors and fly 'em. With pride.

Anonymous AK July 03, 2013 1:21 PM  

They should just have conventions that are entirely held in a VR environment. That way everyone could interact with only the avatars they are comfortable with and any conversation can be filtered to ones tastes.

I am being facetious, of course.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia July 03, 2013 1:22 PM  

Also, it occurs to me there should be a height requirement. No stumpies.

It is statements as these that make me wonder what is wrong with you.

And also what is wrong with the men around here that they ain't denounced this already.

There ain't nothin, and I mean nothin, wrong with a 5'0" tall (short) woman weighing 90 lbs and a pair of c cups and good swingin hips.

In fact I call them little miracles.

I think in the vernacular they may be known as spinners.

I'll let you have all the 6'0" plus women and I'll keep the 5'4" and below little miracles. Cause I am generous like that.

Blogger Eric Wilson July 03, 2013 1:26 PM  

dh,

I have a similar if less personal story. I've met Pres. John Tyler's grandson. That's what happens when successive generations of men sire children as septuagenarians.

Anonymous VD July 03, 2013 1:34 PM  

There ain't nothin, and I mean nothin, wrong with a 5'0" tall (short) woman weighing 90 lbs and a pair of c cups and good swingin hips.

Dwarfhumper.

Anonymous LostSailor July 03, 2013 1:35 PM  

On the upside, at least we all know what to do to keep Scalzi out of your convention...

Anonymous Salt July 03, 2013 1:40 PM  

Dwarfhumper

They're called spinners.

Anonymous LL July 03, 2013 1:53 PM  

Wow. I just read through some of the comments and one person said they had not been creeped on in the 2 cons s/he attended. I looked at the gravatar and thought it was a man. Upon closer inspection, not so much. Or maybe not sure. Either way, not surprised either.

And one commenter, 16, ADHD, homeschooled and it appears may have Asperger's is so very happy this policy in place because if she ever DOES go, she knows she will not be creeped on.

All of this talk about being "creeped on" is so damn "my opinion" and this is the recipe for disaster. If some socially awkward, geeked out guy notices your titties, and you feel "creeped on," well, there ya go, here is the way you report sexual harassment so he can be socially ostracized (even more, from probably the ONE place he feels like he fits in), publicly shamed, and most likely lose any and all monies invested in attending.

I am floored by all of this.

Anonymous Uncle Fester July 03, 2013 2:02 PM  

"Please, Jill. This is no place for androcentrism. The proper term is transconsiderate neutercurious."

Damn you Daniel. I just snorted a cup of perfectly good coffee.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2013 2:15 PM  

If some socially awkward, geeked out guy notices your titties, and you feel "creeped on," well, there ya go, here is the way you report sexual harassment so he can be socially ostracized (even more, from probably the ONE place he feels like he fits in), publicly shamed, and most likely lose any and all monies invested in attending.

The solution is obvious: every con hires strippers and puts them into a separate room so that the socially awkward aspies can go look at those titties and leave the wildebeests alone.

Anonymous Cinco July 03, 2013 2:21 PM  

5ft. / 90lbs... We don't want any fatties, now do we? 85lbs upper limit on five footers. Remember, treat women are like a successful financial investment: start small, retire comfortable; start big, and one day you will have more than you know what to do with. Eating dosorders are a sign of discipline IMO.

Anonymous realmatt July 03, 2013 2:27 PM  

Isn't 5'6'' a little tall for you?

Anonymous Daniel July 03, 2013 2:32 PM  

Heh. The "one bad apple" count is now officially up to 12. Her eloquent public complaint about superhurtful private comments that no one outside of the membership group should be aware of...:

Dear Twelve Rabid Weasels of SFWA, please shut the fuck up.
Posted by Mary Robinette Kowal

I know you value your freedom of speech. Good on you. However there are 1788 other members of SFWA who also value their freedom of speech and manage to exercise it without being raging assholes.

You are professional writers, so should know the power of words. I therefore must assume that you are deliberately being provocative and trying to set things on fire because you enjoy watching a flamewar.

There are 1788 other members who don’t. Scratch that… there are 1752 because some people just quit because of you.

I know, I know. Asking you not to be racist/sexist/elitist, or just for impulse control is tantamount to fascism and catering to the liberal mob. All the other members manage to do it. Why can’t you?

I spent four years in office and the first year I almost quit because I got so tired of getting hate mail. Then I realized that it was coming from the same dozen people, every single time. All the other members were lovely. It was easier to shrug off being called “impertinent,” or “wannabee” (Did I show you the Hugo I won since then), or “Nazi,” when it became clear that the vitriol didn’t represent all of SFWA, just a dozen rabid weasels.

However, I am sick to death of putting out the fires that you people start.

Please quit. And by “quit” I mean, please quit SFWA in a huff. Please quit noisily and complaining about how SFWA is censoring you for asking you to stop using hate speech. Please quit and complain about the “thoughtcrime” of asking people not to sexually harass someone. Please quit and bellyache about the good old days when people could be bigoted jerks. I want you to express your opinions clearly so that everyone knows them and knows that you are quitting because the other members of SFWA want you to Shut the Fuck up.

With all sincerity,

Mary Robinette Kowal

Anonymous N. KKK Jemisin: stupid nut job and hater of whites July 03, 2013 2:34 PM  

Hahaha. I like the way they all focus on VD as if he's the one who went to an SF convention in South Africa and said before he arrived and after all of 3 days he didn't feel safe cuz he was white and that S. Africa should apologize to white people for killing white farmers. Oddly enough, S. Africa is actually demonstrably more dangerous for whites than Australia is for blacks. But why let reality get in the way of racial bigotry when morality has already been decided as being on the side of non-whites and women and gays?

In other stupidity, Sean Wallace of Clarkesworld is claiming "DCMA notices were used to take down the smofslist tumblr leak..." Yet it is still up. How could he know it would come down if it's still up?

https://twitter.com/oldcharliebrown/status/352490311248904192

And last but not least, we always have the ultra-moronic OCD SFWA member Mary Robinette Kowal writing "Dear Twelve Rabid Weasels of SFWA, please shut the fuck up."

http://www.maryrobinettekowal.com/journal/dear-twelve-rabid-weasels-of-sfwa-please-shut-the-fuck-up/

Remember, Kowal is the idiot who admitted to being a racist cuz "I had food delivered and the Latino delivery guy spoke perfect English. I was stunned."

She also let herself be publicly intimidated by the equally ultra-moronic Lavie Tidhar into revising an already published story because she used the phrase "diminutive half-breed" which the webzine the story appeared in now declares perpetuated "racist and colonialist tropes."

This is a culture of almost unbelievable naivete racked with an equal portion of plain idiocy. The fact these so-called "equal" feminists are constantly crying and wringing their hands over nothing in a way you rarely see men do is striking. Would you want a single one of these morons standing next to you in a tight situation in a dark alley? Only if you like saying "I surrender."

Anonymous Stalin McBeria July 03, 2013 2:45 PM  

RE: http://www.maryrobinettekowal.com/journal/dear-twelve-rabid-weasels-of-sfwa-please-shut-the-fuck-up/

Who are the 12 they are trying to purge? I know a couple names, but not all 12.

Anonymous BlackPeopleLoveUs.com July 03, 2013 2:50 PM  

devastating...

http://shetterly.blogspot.com/2013/07/on-vox-day-and-n-k-jemisin-feuding.html


Beale's "scientific sub-speciesism" can be traced through Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon David Duke's idea of "racial realism" and 19th-century scientific racists like Samuel Morton to the 17th and 18th centuries, when the concept of race was developed to justify the African slave trade—as historian Eric Williams points out, "Slavery was not born of racism; rather, racism was the consequence of slavery."

...

Since Beale claims a Christian tradition, I'll remind him of 1 Peter 2:17, "Respect everyone," and Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female."

...

This should be an easy message to understand: Respect everyone because we're all the same.

BlackPeopleLoveUs.com

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia July 03, 2013 2:56 PM  

5ft. / 90lbs... We don't want any fatties, now do we? 85lbs upper limit on five footers.

It is 85 lbs PLUS 5 lbs. for the C cup.

85+5=90lbs.

If we are talking B cup, your 85 would be correct.

Anonymous Krul July 03, 2013 2:57 PM  

Mary Robinette Kowal - I therefore must assume that you are deliberately being provocative and trying to set things on fire because you enjoy watching a flamewar.

Heh. I think she's got you figured out, Vox. Too bad she can't figure out how to apply this insight...

Anonymous Daniel July 03, 2013 2:59 PM  

Who are the 12 they are trying to purge? I know a couple names, but not all 12.

If I had to guess, it would be:

George Spahn, for giving out such hurtful nicknames to the members of the Family.
John Waters, for turning Leslie Van Houten against the Family.
Susan Atkins, for publishing an autobiography in which she self-identifies with a homophobic cult, and for failing to use proceeds toward SFWA membership dues.

Oh, wait. I'm thinking of the Manson Family. Never mind.

Anonymous Natalie Luhrs: Extremely fat pig, serial liar about dead men July 03, 2013 3:02 PM  

Amal El-Mohtar, lover of anything non-white and who called for VD's expulsion from the SFWA wrote this about Kowal's post:

"I want to just bake her cookies and interesting bread forever."

Hahahahahah.

Scalzi writes this:

"I will say, apropos of nothing in particular, that @MaryRobinette is one of my favorite people and often has relevant things to say."

Well, one-nut got the apropos of nothing part right at least.

Anonymous Anonagain July 03, 2013 3:02 PM  

The more they squee, the more I hate them.

Anonymous Daniel July 03, 2013 3:04 PM  

"I want to just bake her cookies and interesting bread forever." - I believe this qualifies as sexual harassment under the new SFWA guidelines.

New SFWA slogan: "Our Cookies, Our Selves."

Anonymous patrick kelly July 03, 2013 3:05 PM  

""Respect everyone," "

Even racist, misogynist, homophobic, white, heterosexual, really mean and nasty award winning cruelty artists?

Hmmm... the "because we're all the same" sure sounds like some personal, private interpretation tacked on.

Anonymous VD July 03, 2013 3:10 PM  

Who are the 12 they are trying to purge? I know a couple names, but not all 12.

Not me. I didn't have a thing to do with SFWA until my presidential campaign this year.

Heh. I think she's got you figured out, Vox.

Nope, not me. I haven't been trying to cause any problems at all. Trust me, if I wanted to cause problems, there would be much bigger problems than these. I couldn't have been one of them anyhow, I've never hate-mailed her or anyone else, for that matter.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2013 3:11 PM  

So if you were trying to cause problems, how world you go about doing it?

Anonymous TJIC July 03, 2013 3:13 PM  

Toad of Tor

Awesome.

Anonymous NateM July 03, 2013 3:14 PM  

By my count the number of people who voted for Vox in the election was greater than 12, so she can't count all 1752 members on her side

Anonymous dh July 03, 2013 3:15 PM  

Nope, not me. I haven't been trying to cause any problems at all. Trust me, if I wanted to cause problems, there would be much bigger problems than these. I couldn't have been one of them anyhow, I've never hate-mailed her or anyone else, for that matter.

Come on, we all know that 90+% of the supposed death threats and hate mail that people get when they claim to have been threatened are bogus. Completely, totally, bogus.

If she was really threatened, or received "Hate mail", just post it. Full headers.

People just don't send that much "hate mail". What the crying fainters brigade really means by "hate mail and death threats" is that they got e-mail from people who don't like them, and/or say mean things to them.

E.g., I was accused of sending "hate mail" because I e-mailed a feminist that I hope her family wouldn't be upset when, upon her passing, her remains were eaten by her cats after she died alone in her apartment.

Anonymous Daniel July 03, 2013 3:17 PM  

On the statement by Frenkel's wife, Jim Hines says this:

I do feel bad for Joan. It sounds like she probably wasn't aware of any of this.

Without going into details, I'll just say I wouldn't have helped to publicize this mess if I wasn't convinced beyond any doubt, based on accounts from many different individuals, that this was a true and ongoing (11+ years that I'm aware of) problem, and that it was a problem that would continue if steps weren't taken to stop him.


So, for 12 years worth of hearsay, Hines was willing to white knight for an anorexia survivor, but the offender's own poor ignorant idiot wife should be patronized like a crossbow-weilding ladybook cover?

Hines can't even do gamma right.

Anonymous dh July 03, 2013 3:19 PM  

""Respect everyone," "

This is just a really hollow command. Respect is not something that is binary, and it's not something automatic. By default, I don't respect you. Even when I start to respect someone, it's very gradual. It takes a long time to get to the highest level of respect.

Saying "Respect everyone" regardless of their worthiness to be respected is grade-school behavior management.

A more adult mantra is "Be indifferent to anyone. Have contempt for those who need it, and respect for those for have earned it."

Blogger JCclimber July 03, 2013 3:21 PM  

Okay, I have waffled back and forth on this issue about whether the SFWA is amusing or just annoying.

I have decided today, that gems like this plainly justify Vox's continued membership in the organization. The entertainment value is high.

These people really, really have no clue as to how idiotic they truly sound outside of their little rabbit warren. I'm certain it is because they never, ever interact with anyone for more than 1 or 2 minutes who doesn't also live within their warren.

These are the people who can't go to family get togethers anymore because at least some of their extended family are not quiet little members of the rabbit grouping. And the rabbit people would be forced to interact with the people who hold a (more logical) different opinion for more than 1 minute necessary to buy a cup of coffee. And when the other members of the family start siding with the non-rabbit member, the rabbit person just can't handle it.

Gives me a better insight into some people who "just can't stand family reunions".

Anonymous VD July 03, 2013 3:24 PM  

Isn't 5'6'' a little tall for you?

No. For the Nth time, I am not short, except by giant Scandinavian standards.

Blogger JCclimber July 03, 2013 3:25 PM  

dh,
what's going on with you? You're starting to make more sense lately.
Has someone hijacked your posting name?

I can barely tell you're a (self-identified) liberal these days.

Anonymous the bandit July 03, 2013 3:27 PM  

> ""Respect everyone,""
> This is just a really hollow command.

It's also an out-of-context quote. The actual command is to respect everyone who commands respect, such as government officials in authority over you.

Anonymous Jim Hines: Rape addict, gender bitch and retarded imaginary cop July 03, 2013 4:06 PM  

Does the forced seduction obsessed Hines realize they haven't mentioned one single actual act that Frenkel has done other than saying he's done "it?" What the hell is "it?" It's a lynching and a witch hunt without facts.

One thing I find amusing is how often I see these so-called equal feminists state they literally have to step away from the internet after reading Pournelle's posts. hahahah.

When in my life has this ever happened? Never. I'm betting I could single handedly enslave all feminists.

Anonymous McHaha July 03, 2013 4:08 PM  

How about that Steven Brust comment ... wow...

http://shetterly.blogspot.com/2013/07/on-vox-day-and-n-k-jemisin-feuding.html

https://plus.google.com/112120711407700375723/posts

Anonymous McHaha July 03, 2013 4:10 PM  

"it" is "sexual harassment"

What is "sexual harassment"? It is "it."

What is "it"? It is "sexual harassment"

Rinse, repeat. Frenkel is guilty, and that's all that matters. Turtles all the way down.

Anonymous Myrddin July 03, 2013 4:47 PM  

"For the Nth time, I am not short, except by giant Scandinavian standards."

Ahh, to be a normal-sized dude in Minnesota. All of my sparring partners can kick me in the head. And Krav doesn't do high kicks except as a 'experts should learn this so the newbs can practice defending against it."

Anonymous Noah B. July 03, 2013 4:49 PM  

"Dwarfhumper."

It is often said that life is about enjoying the little things.

Anonymous dh July 03, 2013 5:11 PM  

I can barely tell you're a (self-identified) liberal these days.

I just don't like feminists. There would be general surprise at how few people really support their wicked ways.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2013 5:26 PM  

For the Nth time, I am not short, except by giant Scandinavian standards.

Hehe

Anonymous Pinakeli July 03, 2013 5:54 PM  

She stood 6 foot 4
Barely fit through the door
And her hair was the color of fire
She said baby what you need
Is some horizontal speed
And I'm the one to take your desire
Baby let me take you higher

Rock the redhead all night
Rock the redhead, so right
Rock the redhead tonight

Baby take me higher
Baby take me through the night

-- King Thunder



Tall girl rule!

Anonymous Pinakeli July 03, 2013 5:54 PM  

Tall girls rule!

Stupid fingers leave out letters sometimes.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 03, 2013 6:12 PM  

For the Nth time, I am not short, except by giant Scandinavian standards.

No need to get so upset, dear little friend. The lifts are hardly noticeable, I tell you.

Blogger kilo papa July 03, 2013 6:46 PM  

"My Son of God balls need to be scratched. Where is Charlston Heston when you need him?"

-----------Jesus H. Christ, as told to Pat Robertson's arse.

Anonymous GreyS July 03, 2013 6:50 PM  

Scalzi is riding high now and it's beautiful to watch. He's so crudely and blatantly self-serving yet he's got all sorts of people--fans, followers, wannabees, fellow writers-- who just keep lapping it up. It's fantastic.

Blogger Justthisguy July 03, 2013 7:21 PM  

Vox. you have him (Leviathan) on the ropes with this one. Every time he starts to fall, punch him back upright. You don't want him to go flat on the mat and have the referee make you stop punching him.

Blogger Justthisguy July 03, 2013 7:35 PM  

@Josh @2:15: As a socially awkward Aspie, I approve of your proposal to provide special rooms with strippers, just for me and mine.

Anonymous Carlotta July 03, 2013 7:48 PM  

What do you do when you ARE starting trouble?
BTW, you should send an email asking if you can your dues for the next five years in advance.

Anonymous Carlotta July 03, 2013 7:49 PM  

Freakin auto correct! Should be PAY your dues.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 03, 2013 7:56 PM  

The solution is obvious: every con hires strippers and puts them into a separate room so that the socially awkward aspies can go look at those titties and leave the wildebeests alone.

But then arises the next problem: What happens when the wildebeests decide they want to be the strippers?

Anonymous VD July 03, 2013 8:12 PM  

It's fantastic.

I like the cosign thing. It's pure rabbity goodness.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2013 8:39 PM  

But then arises the next problem: What happens when the wildebeests decide they want to be the strippers?

They sign a waiver that absolves the con, con organizers, con volunteers, and con attendees from any future harassment claims during the con.

Anonymous realmatt July 03, 2013 9:03 PM  

I love strippers. Especially thin A-cupped 19 yr old Russian ones who don't mind when I get mouthy and handsy and especially in strip clubs with pool tables. I hate pool halls.

I love Russian strippers.

Blogger Will Shetterly July 03, 2013 11:05 PM  

Just checked my blog stats, saw I had some hits from here, and came to visit.

I completely understand why the anti-Christians among you choose to ignore Paul. But for those who claim to be Christians, here's the full quote, using the KJV since Vox Day is supposed to be a Baptist: "Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king." The Greek that is translated as "all [men]" is "pantas" which means "all". It is not qualified. The advice is quite literally to "respect" or "honor" "everyone" or "all". Paul doesn't give any room for cherrypicking there.

If anyone's get a better translation, I'd love to hear it.

There is advice about rulers in 1 Peter 2, but you'll notice that the sentence preceding 1 Peter 2:17 is about acting as free men, not about dealing with rulers. And, yes, the part about rulers does mean Christians should speak of Obama with respect, for all that he's a centrist neo-liberal whose war on whistleblowers makes Nixon look like one of the good guys.

Anonymous Anonagain July 03, 2013 11:46 PM  

Godless fucks citing the Bible to justify themselves is always quite hilarious.

Anonymous Anonagain July 03, 2013 11:47 PM  

Godless fucks citing the Bible in order to justify themselves is always quite hilarious.

Anonymous Roger De Deflor: Experienced Master of Wimmens and Time Itself July 04, 2013 1:30 AM  

1. A phalanx, posse, entourage of 6 cosplay Wonder Women in super tight outfits accompany me at all times.

2. No women with a waist of less than 25 inches is allowed into the convention.

3. Women are not allowed to speak within 10 meters of me.

4. There will be at least one daily panel about stripping and whores in SF literature.

5. No woman can look me directly in the eye.

6. Women should be seen and not heard in SF should be main theme of the convention.

7. Strict racial segregation. I want no gawking.

8. No steampunk.

Anonymous Mudz July 04, 2013 2:30 AM  

Will Shetterly

My translation says 'honour men of all sorts' and 'have honor for the king'. I'd have to check the Greek.

I do wonder about the admonitions to respect the worldy rulers, and exactly how to parse that out, especially when there's a conflict with Christian conscience. This is my thoughts so far:

No one in America breaks any laws by dissing Obama. That's kind of how their government is set up, a democracy (checks and balances and all that self-correcting bull), and power theoretically derives from the people. They're supposed to protest and complain a bad President who abuses 'their' power that they invested in him. So they are acting in full accord with the constitution and lawful tradition of their country, so far as I can tell.

If they had a King (with divine right?) and instituted that fancy word for speech crime, that'd be different.

Paul's most obvious intention in that scripture was to admonish us against using our status as a freed people for committing bad, but to do good in order to reflect glory on God. Obeying the laws, and otherwise behaving with good conduct.

Paul was very concerned about Christians reflecting well upon God and Christ.

Best I can figure, be a law-abiding citizen, a man of good conscience, and honour God above all other authorities (could be framed in terms of the Three Laws). Requires intelligent discrimination more than a legal absolutism, because the authorities in question could be any sort (Monarchy or democracy or socialism, etc.), and cultural opinion on 'good conduct' isn't fixed either which could be of some minor consideration.

That's just my thoughts so far, though. I've hardly even begun to scratch the surface of this particular debate.

Blogger Phoenician July 04, 2013 2:51 AM  

Godless fucks citing the Bible in order to justify themselves is always quite hilarious.

Not half as funny as stupid fucks puffing themselves up about being "Christian" while ignoring it, dipshit.

Anonymous Mudz July 04, 2013 3:27 AM  

It's not really that funny. It's a pretty serious issue.

Blogger teqzilla July 04, 2013 4:04 AM  

Ok, first Scalzi announces that he is a rapist and now he wants to ensure that the sexual harassment policy is exactly to his liking before he attends an event. This is like a man in dark glasses entering a bank and demanding that he be given detailed blueprints of the bank and a drop off schedule before he will consider opening an account with them. My advice to convention organisers is that they think very carefully about the safety of the women in attendance and don't risk allowing this predator to outlay a series of policies in such a way that he might 'finesse' them when in actual attendance. Scalzi is a devil dumpling, a flabby mound of sexual terror, and there is no way of knowing what sick adventures he might embark upon protected by a policy that he himself devised.

Anonymous The CronoLink July 04, 2013 4:13 AM  

Sorry, Phoenician, you're still wrong.

Blogger Will Shetterly July 04, 2013 7:52 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Will Shetterly July 04, 2013 7:53 AM  

Mudz, thank you. I think we generally agree here: the comment in the previous line about acting as free men certainly means we're free to disagree with the ruling class and work to change bad laws. I think Martin Luther King's success is at least partly due to his insistence on treating people with respect. If you think of "respect everyone" only in pragmatic terms, it's good tactics. But I think it's also better for your soul not to wallow in hate.

Anonymous rabbitfarts July 04, 2013 8:12 AM  

Shetterfly: You linked Vox to the KKK ... know any good Bible quotes about slander or libel? How were you repecting Vox in your slanderous post? How about you slurp down your own bullshit before you push it from your high horse?

Anonymous Mudz July 04, 2013 8:17 AM  

@ Will Shetterly

'An answer, when mild, turns away anger', and 'love thy enemy'.

Agreed, it's much healthier.

Not to be mistaken for condoning evil or bad behaviour, however.

Anonymous rabbitfarts July 04, 2013 8:19 AM  

Shetterfly: Mary Robinette Kowal is telling dissenters to Shut the Fuck Up. Are going to vist her blog with your "repect everyone" slogans? Maybe you shit on Kowal's blog with your MLK quotes and Bible-thumping and John Lennon rainbow lyrics and what not?

Anonymous rabbitfarts July 04, 2013 8:39 AM  

Shetterfly:

Just checked your twitter. "macho rightwing racists" ... you got the ballz to call us thses names here to our faces, or only behind our backs on Twitter?

"Respect everyone just like Jesus and MLK" says Shetterfly... then on twitter he's calling us names.

what a fucking fraud.

Blogger Will Shetterly July 04, 2013 9:47 AM  

Mudz, full agreement there. I fall short often, but I keep trying.

rabbitfarts, if you check Mary's blog, you'll see I'm already in the comments.

As for linking Vox Day to the KKK, David Duke also claimed to have scientific reasons for believing white folks were superior. I didn't say VD was a KKKer. I've never noticed VD supporting the KKK, and if he's rebuked them, more power to him.

Now, do feel free to correct me on the following:

1. Y'all believe in alpha males. In my community, that's machismo.

2. Y'all are right-libertarians, which means you're rightwingers. I'm a left-libertarian, which means I disagree with a lot of leftwingers, but I'm still a leftwinger.

3. Y'all believe white people are superior to black people thanks to the way you cherry-pick science. Dictionaries have called that racism for over a century, and unlike the Critical Race Theorists, I'm fond of dictionaries. (But you especially shouldn't take offense at "racist" because the word hardly means anything since the CRT crowd got hold of it.)

If you were to call me a commie, I wouldn't take offense. I am one. Or a nigger-lover, because that's what racists called me when they jumped me back in the day. I dunno if you've got a name for people who support gay marriage, but if you do, I'll wear it--that's part of my libertarianism.

What I don't do is engage in ad hominem, and I try to remember that the most misguided people can change their minds. There are repentant racists who I admire enormously. Robert Byrd's a fine example.

Blogger Will Shetterly July 04, 2013 9:51 AM  

rabbitfarts, on second thought, I apologize. I was indulging in twitter shorthand. I generally believe you should call people what they call themselves, and I should've said something like "alpha male HBDers". Do you have a preferred description?

Anonymous rabbitfarts July 04, 2013 10:06 AM  

Just farts in the wind, Shutterfly. I busted you talking shit behind peoples back on Twitter while pushing your pretentious "coexist" bullshit here. You believe you are clever with your cheap attempts at manipulation ("oh I wasn't really trying to link Vox and David Duke. I just put their names in the same paragraph ...")

Rabbits gotta rabbit. I like how automatically assume victim status... oh you're just DYING for me to call you a "commie" or "nigger-lover" aren't you? You could wear it like a war-medal to justify your politically correct righteousness all day long?

Why not just beg me for it. Just say it: "Puh-lease call me a nigger-lover so I can PROVE how progressively morally superior I am compared to y'all... it would make my day... " Get on your knees and beg like a bitch, and maybe I'll consider calling you this, OK?

whatever. I just know you're a fucking fraud. you know it, I know it. Like MLK once said, "Some crackers just try too hard to be nigger-lovers"...

What I do, unlike you, is put my ad hominem right in the open. I don't hide my ad hominem behind pretentious manipulation of passive sentences and propaganda techniques.

When I call you a little bitch, I'm calling you a little bitch.

Blogger Will Shetterly July 04, 2013 11:03 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Will Shetterly July 04, 2013 11:06 AM  

Rabbitfarts, the strength and weakness of civility is it suggests common cause where there is little or none. You and I probably disagree in just about every significant way, right down to the effectiveness of invective. I certainly don't expect a supremacist to support anyone's right to coexist—but I still support yours.

You want to pretend your form of scientific racism has no connection to David Duke's, fine. I recently learned a useful word, umwelt. Your world is yours.

I maybe should've added that I shoot and have a bit of martial arts behind me. If we're ever in the same place at the same time, do feel free to call me a little bitch, and I might think you brave. Right now, you're just a dog on the internet yapping behind the safety of a pseudonym. It's as tiring from you as it is from social justice warriors. If your goal was to bore me into leaving, you've probably succeeded.

Go in peace.

Anonymous GreyS July 04, 2013 12:40 PM  

And his followers believe Scalzi doesn't read this blog? There is little question in my mind that this on 6/29...

"John Scalzi was very fortunate that his inept political satire last year was accepted as such. That didn't have to be the case; it was far more potentially offensive than the "lady editor" comment that sparked Bulletingate. If it had served the whims of the pinkshirts to destroy him, (for example, if they had had a candidate for SFWA president they wished to push), he would have found himself the bewildered recipient of the same sort of ideological hysteria to which Messrs. Resnick and Malzberg were inflicted."

Led to this, published on 7/2...

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/07/02/my-new-convention-harassment-policy/

Anonymous OMGHayden July 04, 2013 11:59 PM  

Dwarfhumper. - VD


So be it.


Blogger LP 999/Eliza August 30, 2013 5:00 PM  

Awesome!! This is quite possibly the best post on the Sca/convention situation. Team Vox!!!

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