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Thursday, July 25, 2013

The blue rot

It's not "a few bad apples". The American police are systematically corrupt and the few good men in the force are fired whenever they speak out against the blue rot:
After the arrival of a new police chief in 2010, the department entered an era of ticket quotas and worse. “When I first heard about the quotas I was appalled,” says former Auburn police officer Justin Hanners, who claims he and other cops were given directives to hassle, ticket, or arrest specific numbers of residents per shift. “I got into law enforcement to serve and protect, not be a bully.”

Hanners blew the whistle on the department’s tactics and was eventually fired for refusing to comply and keep quiet. He says that each officer was required to make 100 contacts each month, which included tickets, arrests, field interviews, and warnings. This equates to 72,000 contacts a year in a 50,000 person town. His claims are backed up by audio recordings of his superiors he made.
Do you want to know where the good men on the police force are?  They are "fired for refusing to comply and keep quiet".  As Radley Balko says: "You have a policy that encourages police to create petty crimes and ignore serious crimes."

Labels:

178 Comments:

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 25, 2013 9:06 AM  

Remember: "To Protect and Serve" is not a motto that target the common citizen, but the interests of the government officials they work for. The police do not work for the people, they are paid by the State. As such, they have zero material interest in helping you or anyone else. They know that regardless of what they do, they will be paid because their money is taken by force.

Blogger George Pal July 25, 2013 9:15 AM  

"You have a policy that encourages police to create petty crimes and ignore serious crimes."

Sam Francis caught on to this trend some time ago, calling it anarcho-tyranny.

Anonymous allyn71 July 25, 2013 9:15 AM  

Same purge is happening in the military. Besides all the direct removals of command and other administrative actions, the social experiments are designed to create an environment so hostile to a decent person that they can't stand to be there anymore.

This letter is an example. It's sentiments have been echoed to me by several family members and friends currently in the military

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/07/a-letter-from-a-marine-captain-in-afghanistan.html

Anonymous Mike July 25, 2013 9:17 AM  

The Transformers movie had it best. On Barricade's rear quarter, the motto reads "To punish and enslave." Truth in Hollywood for a change.

Anonymous Mob-Rules July 25, 2013 9:24 AM  

My sentiments exactly. Here in South Florida, police are so ready to give someone a ticket that they hide behind foliage and bridges to catch someone going 5 miles over the speed limit. Yet refuse to chase a dangerous criminal into the ghetto. Don't get me started on code enforcement officers, they seem to make shit up as they go along just to give you a $500 fine.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben July 25, 2013 9:28 AM  

Never speak to a policeman. They will use everything you say against you and are not your friend, even if they try faking it. Assert your 5th amendment rights and demand a lawyer.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 25, 2013 9:29 AM  

A large part of the reason for this widespread pillaging of the American people is because of the growing economic depression. Local and state governments do not have a Federal Reserve to buy their bonds, so they have to resort to more direct tactics.

Anonymous The CronoLink July 25, 2013 9:31 AM  

:knock: :knock:
"Who is it?"
"Police, muthafucka!"

Anonymous Stilicho July 25, 2013 9:31 AM  

From the linked article:
Hanners repeatedly voiced his concerns through his chain of command, and the department responded that these requirements are necessary for increasing productivity.

WTF? The goal of a police department should not be to "increase productivity" ever. Rather, the goal should be to decrease productivity by decreasing the need for a police force in the first place. Instead we get his monstrosity: not enough real crime, or real crime is just too difficult to deal with to justify your budget, power, and numbers? No problem, just invent some crime to raise revenue through fines, justify your existence, and keep your prey cowed.

Tar and feathers. Apply liberally. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Anonymous Cinco July 25, 2013 9:32 AM  

@Mob-Rules

Here in South Florida, police are so ready to give someone a ticket that they hide behind foliage and bridges to catch someone going 5 miles over the speed limit. Yet refuse to chase a dangerous criminal into the ghetto.

Yeah, the dangerous criminal may shoot them. The white guy in the Corvette will pay every time.

Anonymous Salt July 25, 2013 9:35 AM  

I think you mean systemically, not systematically, as the body of blue rejects the healthy.

Anonymous Stilicho July 25, 2013 9:39 AM  

The white guy in the Corvette will pay every time.

Elsewhere in the world, they are far more honest about their baksheesh. Here, they dress it up under the color of "law" but the purpose and result is the same. Well, actually, as Vox pointed out a while back, the bureaucratic efficiencies of the American system make it far more burdensome. The bastards won't even stay bribed! Mexican Federales are less corrrupt.

Anonymous meg00k July 25, 2013 9:43 AM  

@CronoLink
Police don't knock.
More like
:Flashbang:
:Shoot dog:
:Get on the floor!:

Anonymous J July 25, 2013 9:46 AM  

Elsewhere in the world, they are far more honest about their baksheesh. Here, they dress it up under the color of "law" but the purpose and result is the same.

Not quite the same.

Elsewhere in the world, the money goes into the cop's pocket (and to be fair, his employers don't pay him so he has to do what he has to do).

Here, the cop doesn't get the money himself; it goes into the local government's pocket to be distributed to the politically connected.

At most, the cop is helping to pay his retired brother cop's pension.

Anonymous Brendan July 25, 2013 9:52 AM  

My sentiments exactly. Here in South Florida, police are so ready to give someone a ticket that they hide behind foliage and bridges to catch someone going 5 miles over the speed limit. Yet refuse to chase a dangerous criminal into the ghetto.

Of course. In Northern Virginia they stand outside the toll booths at the exits of one of the toll commuter roads here and ticket every single car going through which has an expired registration tag or inspection sticker. Really dangerous work there, but, hey, it nets a ton of tickets every time it seems (I always see several cars that have already been pulled over and are being "processed" by one cop while the other stands and nets more prey).

Anonymous J July 25, 2013 9:57 AM  

@Brendan,

Don't forget sitting on the exits from I-66 to catch those evil HOV violators, and cruising through the park-and-rides to ticket more people with expired tags (easy as shooting fish in a barrel... they don't even have to talk to you).

Anonymous Anonymous July 25, 2013 9:57 AM  

Eventually, the answer may well be that the citizens will have to make giving a ticket as dangerous for police officers as taking down hard core drug dealers is.

Anonymous dh July 25, 2013 9:58 AM  

Of course. In Northern Virginia they stand outside the toll booths at the exits of one of the toll commuter roads here and ticket every single car going through which has an expired registration tag or inspection sticker. Really dangerous work there, but, hey, it nets a ton of tickets every time it seems (I always see several cars that have already been pulled over and are being "processed" by one cop while the other stands and nets more prey).

People have to start challenging the system. The best way is to crash the system. Just let it burn. Burn it down. Challenge every ticket in court, to the max. possible.

I had a ticket like that once, I made them do a jury trial.

Anonymous whtbread July 25, 2013 10:01 AM  

In my lifetime the local police force has gone from bad to worse. Recently I got caught in a police trap at a road closure point and when handing me the ticket to sign the cop became infuriated that I was actually reading the ticket instead of simply signing the red box and handing it to him. He immediately began looking for any violations he could right me up for and I got another infraction for "illegal sunglasses."

Blogger Guitar Man July 25, 2013 10:03 AM  

The only thing I have going in my town, is that they tend to leave the locals alone. You may get pulled over, but they typically give you a warning. However, if you're not from town, you'll get the ticket.

Then again, it was the cops in my town that shot and killed an unarmed 21 year old kid in his own car the first year I moved in, so there is that.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 25, 2013 10:04 AM  

Of course. In Northern Virginia they stand outside the toll booths at the exits of one of the toll commuter roads here and ticket every single car going through which has an expired registration tag or inspection sticker. Really dangerous work there, but, hey, it nets a ton of tickets every time it seems (I always see several cars that have already been pulled over and are being "processed" by one cop while the other stands and nets more prey).

And if you just pass by them without acknowledging their orders, they will kill you. It has happened before.

Of course, a conservative will mock you and call you a cop-hater for opposing all these "safety" measures. They can go to Hell for all I care.

Anonymous patrick kelly July 25, 2013 10:21 AM  

At this point I consider anyone who supports or apologizes for the militarized police state to be, at best, naive victims of a type of "Stockholm Syndrome", or at worst, quislings morally equal to collaborators with Nazis in occupied France.

Blogger James Dixon July 25, 2013 10:41 AM  

The next time someone claims they'll have to cut the police budget and lay officers off if they don't get a tax increase, look at them and say: "And the downside is...?"

Anonymous Clay July 25, 2013 10:41 AM  

@whtbread

What are "illegal sunglasses"?

Anonymous J July 25, 2013 10:42 AM  

People have to start challenging the system. The best way is to crash the system. Just let it burn. Burn it down. Challenge every ticket in court, to the max. possible.

They already have an answer to that -- if you fight it in court, they make you pay a bunch of "court costs" and "processing fees" in addition to the fine. That, plus a day off work and perhaps paying a lawyer, is enough to deter most people. (It deterred me from fighting a bullshit parking ticket last year.)

Another deterrent is my past experience of going to court. Traffic court judges are pretty much like Paulie in Goodfellas - no matter what you say, the response is "Fuck you, pay me."

Blogger JACIII July 25, 2013 10:43 AM  

It's past 10am and we haven't got our SFWA fascist update, yet.

Anonymous Anonymous July 25, 2013 10:45 AM  

PK,
You are farther out on the leading edge of consuming information than most people. Most people have very little interaction with the police and thus have no reason to fear them. Most of those people are amenable to education, if you can pry them away from the latest reality show that has their attention. TO the Paris street sweeper, does it really matter if the Nazis or the "Free French" are running things? Is he collaborating by doing his job and collecting his pay?

The truth is that in most of the USA, things are not bad enough for most people to even notice.

--Hale

Anonymous NateM July 25, 2013 10:49 AM  

You Still can't Corner the Dorner

Anonymous Daniel July 25, 2013 11:00 AM  

It's past 10am and we haven't got our SFWA fascist update, yet.

Uhm, here:

N.K. Jemisin called fellow SFWA member Elizabeth Moon a "bigot," a "useless white liberal" and a white Christian supremacist.

She was never considered for expulsion.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 July 25, 2013 11:03 AM  

Challenge every ticket in court, to the max

My local county court has caught on to this.
They make you pay the fine upfront, then contest the ticket, but they've now gone to "hearings by mail" that they now mostly rubber stamp, not in your favor.
Just happened to me.
Sent in my appeal and notice of contest, and two days later I got a form letter telling me that after a very careful, considered review, my request for a hearing by mail was denied, because the cause for the ticket was valid. I was then invited to appeal the result, again by mail, and did so.
Another 72 hours later, I got a form letter stating that my appeal was unsuccessful, and the original citation was upheld, with no other explanation than "the citation was deemed valid."
Human eyes never once examined the contents of either the contested citation or the appeal, I'm sure.
They're taking measures to prevent clogging the system, due process be damned.

Anonymous Daniel July 25, 2013 11:04 AM  

Sorry, back on-topic: It is national news that the cops are turning Interstate 80 into an eight-day speed trap, crowdsourced kickstarter campaign...but there's nothing about the fact that they've abandoned downtown Chicago to the slayers.

Anonymous Starbuck July 25, 2013 11:06 AM  

Sorta off thread but kinda funny too.

I went to Phoenix for a funeral and I noticed one of the surrounding towns was named "Surprise".

I can imagine when those cops do a house break in:

::Kick Door in::
Cops: "Surprise Police!!"
Home owner: "What did you say?"
Embarassed Cops: "Damn!"

Anonymous Captain America July 25, 2013 11:17 AM  

To the contrary, "To Protect and Serve" is a motto that serious minded Americans honor and respect, realizing the men and women in blue are diligent in their duties. Let that be a lesson for you when your precious daughter is brutally gang-raped by illegal immigrants and you seek justice within the framework of the law. The "fuck the police" meme among the ilk is at the very least outlandish.

Anonymous Jesse July 25, 2013 11:30 AM  

"NWA Was Right" = the greatest blog entry tag ever. You win 1,000 internets, Vox.

Anonymous Daniel July 25, 2013 11:36 AM  

Captain America, how in the hell are speed-trap quotas serving and protecting anyone? How many illegal alien gang-rapes are prevented...or even adjudicated...by police revenue generation policies?

Anonymous MacGhil July 25, 2013 11:39 AM  

DiLorenzo nailed it: "Crime Historians and Stick-Up Men."

Anonymous p-dawg July 25, 2013 11:40 AM  

@Captroll America:

"Let that be a lesson for you when your precious daughter is brutally gang-raped by illegal immigrants and you seek justice within the framework of the law."



What if we don't seek justice within the framework of the law? The intelligent know that it isn't to be found there.

Even the less intelligent know it. Consider the following lyrics:

'We don't talk to police, we don't make a peace bond
We don't trust in the judicial system, we shoot guns
We rely on the streets, we do battle in the hood
I was born in the G Code, embedded in my blood.'
- Geto Boys

Anonymous dh July 25, 2013 11:41 AM  

Another 72 hours later, I got a form letter stating that my appeal was unsuccessful, and the original citation was upheld, with no other explanation than "the citation was deemed valid."
Human eyes never once examined the contents of either the contested citation or the appeal, I'm sure.
They're taking measures to prevent clogging the system, due process be damned.


You should look around for a legal aid lawyer. This is almost certainly unconstitutional. You have a right to a jury trial for any matter, civil or criminal, with over $10 in question.

Even though I represented myself, it still cost close to 3x the face amount of the fine for my jury trial. But it was supremely rewarding to know that 12 citizens (plus an extra), plus the cop, his boss, the DA, his assistant, a judge, and two marshalls were tied up for almost an entire day for a $121 ticket.

I am sure it made no difference.

Anonymous whtbread July 25, 2013 11:41 AM  

@Clay What are "illegal sunglasses"?

In Califas someone in the state legislature decided that any sunglasses that have a "wide" temple width should be illegal. Basically any sideframes that are more than 1/2 inch wide at the temple.

Anonymous NateM July 25, 2013 11:41 AM  

Daniel

Maybe it's nk jemisin doing her version of I want to go to the lake? I found it funny that in the face of all her whinging, the con com just ignored her knowing she'd ragequit

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 25, 2013 11:41 AM  

I see you have discovered the Internet at last, Captain Rogers. But such language...Tch, we must be having a bad day.

You are right to say that "serious-minded Americans honour and respect" that motto, but indeed, the "men and women in blue" do not. Yes, they are diligent in their duties, but to whom are those duties in this day? To the people whom they issue citations for petty crimes of malum prohibita? To those who, having used firearms to defend themselves, are forthwith themselves imprisoned?

To the youth at Virginia Tech University who huddled in terror for over an hour as the murderer, at his leisure, slaughtered as many as pleased him, while the police lingered out of doors?

No, Captain, their duty is to their State, which is their god. Their duty is to enforce such rules as it pleases the rulers to invent for the lesser beings to obey--no more, no less--and to "do whatever it takes to get home safely".

You speak of the rape of daughters? Is not this what the police, what the "framework of the law" were intended to prevent? How many rapes have been stopped by the police, I ask you? How many avenged? How many "illegal immigrants" walk the streets unhindered? What justice is there now within the "framework of the law"?

I understand. You come from a day when a man's word was his bond, when neighbors could be trusted, when there was the dream that rule of law could prevail over the whims of the bullies and tyrants.

But this is not that day, nor is this that realm anymore, Captain. Your America is dead, long since. There is only the question of what will take its place.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 July 25, 2013 11:43 AM  

How many illegal alien gang-rapes are prevented

How many are prevented by police at all?

when your precious daughter is brutally gang-raped by illegal immigrants and you seek justice within the framework of the law

The same legal framework that allowed the illegal alien to waltz over the border uninvited and stay despite any and all previous arrests and convictions.
You bet.

Anonymous dh July 25, 2013 11:43 AM  

Another deterrent is my past experience of going to court. Traffic court judges are pretty much like Paulie in Goodfellas - no matter what you say, the response is "Fuck you, pay me."


That's fine. There's always an appeals process. Yes, I have appealed a stupid ticket to the State supreme court.

Two things happen: one, is everyone realizes that you are a complete crank, and two, the cops eventually get tired of you and leave you alone. Or they shoot you.

Anonymous Susan July 25, 2013 11:44 AM  

The police are no longer legally required to follow that motto. It is not on their cars anywhere I have traveled, nor does the Supreme Court require them to follow it. The ruling was mentioned on this very website several months ago.

The only protecting they do is of their own backs. They are no longer required to go into situations that may endanger their safety or lives. They no longer prevent, just clean up after the fact.

Hence the new motto, "when seconds count, the police will be there in minutes."

I don't know if anyone saw this earlier this week, but remember that Connecticut Doctor's family who was burned to death in their basement while being held hostage? In 2006 I think. The big paper in CT released a story that said the police were outside the home trying to make up their minds if the incident was even real, while the family was burning to death in the basement. I haven't been so angry in a long time as I was after reading the whole article. But of course, nothing will be done to the officers who let this happen.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 25, 2013 11:55 AM  

Let that be a lesson for you when your precious daughter is brutally gang-raped by illegal immigrants and you seek justice within the framework of the law.

And the cops will be too busy writing tickets to do anything beyond take a statement and update their statistics - good fodder for a budget increase next legislative session.

My parents house was broken into while my dad was in the hospital recovering from heart surgery and my mom was sitting with him. The cops came and took a report, told us our best bet for finding the stuff was to go around to pawn shops ourselves looking for it. Cops couldn't be bothered to do anything like that.

Their too far down the drain now. There was a brief time - at the height of our civilization - where many (but not all) police departments were the great defenders of society we still imagine them to be. But like so many other institutions of our society, we let it slip though our hands. Now they're just the not-very-bright goons you'd expect in a semi-civilized third-world country. Well, hell, that's what we're becoming.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 July 25, 2013 11:56 AM  

To the contrary, "To Protect and Serve" is a motto that serious minded Americans honor and respect, realizing the men and women in blue are diligent in their duties. Let that be a lesson for you when your precious daughter is brutally gang-raped by illegal immigrants and you seek justice within the framework of the law. The "fuck the police" meme among the ilk is at the very least outlandish.

You moron, the illegal immigrants have more rights and privileges than the average American citizen. How many times are they arrested only to be set free because of their non-citizen, non-residency status? The local and state police just wave their hands in the air and say it's not their jurisdiction while the Feds release them, wag their finger at them, and tell them to go back home or else we'll wag our finger at them again.

And the real Captain wouldn't stand idly by while his daughter was being raped. Nor would real Americans. Maybe Brits, but not Americans.

Anonymous civilServant July 25, 2013 11:57 AM  

"You have a policy that encourages police to create petty crimes and ignore serious crimes."

And yet the United States has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. Perhaps the "rot" is not as widespread as the agitation would suggest.

They are no longer required to go into situations that may endanger their safety or lives.

Sounds like capitalistic economy of action. A private libertarian police force would be non-responsive in comparison.

Anonymous Josh July 25, 2013 11:57 AM  

To the contrary, "To Protect and Serve" is a motto that serious minded Americans honor and respect, realizing the men and women in blue are diligent in their duties. Let that be a lesson for you when your precious daughter is brutally gang-raped by illegal immigrants and you seek justice within the framework of the law. The "fuck the police" meme among the ilk is at the very least outlandish.

Are you a boomer?

Blogger Ghost July 25, 2013 11:59 AM  

Captain, you are aware that not every cop is a detective, right? The majority of cops are tax collectors today, extorting honest citizens' money for the non-crime of going 7 over the limit.

And the ones who actually investigate crimes suck because they aren't allowed to be too smart.

Your boot licking isn't convincing anyone.

Anonymous Josh July 25, 2013 12:00 PM  

Even though I represented myself, it still cost close to 3x the face amount of the fine for my jury trial. But it was supremely rewarding to know that 12 citizens (plus an extra), plus the cop, his boss, the DA, his assistant, a judge, and two marshalls were tied up for almost an entire day for a $121 ticket.

That is incredibly awesome. Well done you godless pinko commie.

Anonymous civilServant July 25, 2013 12:03 PM  

The "fuck the police" meme among the ilk is at the very least outlandish.

Not by their lights. They envision a world where they themselves are the police on their own authority. But ...

To the contrary, "To Protect and Serve" is a motto that serious minded Americans honor and respect, realizing the men and women in blue are diligent in their duties ...

... seems to deprecate acknowledgement of real problems. To be fair problems that exist everywhere but that still exist. Yes?

Blogger John Williams July 25, 2013 12:04 PM  

What are "illegal sunglasses"
Doesn't really matter. For a police state to have power, we all have to have broken the law. Chicago's has criminalized most everyone with parking tickets they, most likely, don't know about. There are dozens of crimes we can be charged on the spot, illegal sunglasses, being only 1 example.

Blogger Ghost July 25, 2013 12:07 PM  

Civil servant,
Having one of the highest incarceration rates in the world is truly the hallmark of a free society.
Moron.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 25, 2013 12:13 PM  

I got a ticket last week, from a Park Service Ranger. Set my tent up in the wrong spot. Funny thing was, it was the exact same spot I'd set it up the previous year, and the ranger that came by had no problem with it as we chatted for half an hour talking about camping gear. But the guy last year was in his 40's, had been in a long time. He was an old-school ranger, out there to help. Came across as reasonably intelligent and a lover of the outdoors who wanted to share his park with everybody.

The guy this year was a mid-twenties lunkhead. He wasn't unpleasant - didn't have the complete "cop" vibe of bossing everyone around. But he still wrote the ticket. It was funny listening to his monologue. It was pretty apparent he was running his hamster to justify to himself writing me the ticket. I'm sure he had a quota to meet.

Blogger Ron July 25, 2013 12:13 PM  

@Captain

And what do you do when the rapist is a cop?

And what's with wanting the police to "avenge" a rape? Do you not understand the purpose of a trial? Are you unaware of how many rape claims are false? You think because some Pretty Little Thing starts crying about how she got raped, that actually proves anything?

Let me tell you pal, you can white knight if you like, you might even have some fun playing that role beating the hell out of some poor bastard. But some of us might decide to play this role instead.

Blogger James Dixon July 25, 2013 12:14 PM  

> And yet the United States has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

Mostly for drug crimes.

Anonymous patrick kelly July 25, 2013 12:15 PM  

Let's hope the NWO sends Swedish cops to oppress us:

SwedishPoliceVideo

Anonymous Matthew July 25, 2013 12:15 PM  

When seconds count, the police will shoot your dog.

Blogger jamsco July 25, 2013 12:17 PM  

"He says that each officer was required to make 100 contacts each month, which included tickets, arrests, field interviews, and warnings. This equates to 72,000 contacts a year in a 50,000 person town."

I guess I'm not seeing the problem here.

The contacts "included tickets, arrests, field interviews, and warnings", but I assume they also include helping people stalled on the road, or answering phone calls, or dealing with traffic accidents, or fires, or heart attacks.

This means the officers are making 4.5 contacts with people in a given day. And a given person in the town has 1.4 contacts with a police officer in a given year. Is this really that extreme?

Anonymous Josh July 25, 2013 12:21 PM  

but I assume they also include helping people stalled on the road, or answering phone calls, or dealing with traffic accidents, or fires, or heart attacks.

You're assuming that. It might not be the case.

And a given person in the town has 1.4 contacts with a police officer in a given year. Is this really that extreme?

Depending on the police's definition of contract, hell yes it is.

Anonymous Sigyn July 25, 2013 12:21 PM  

I guess I'm not seeing the problem here.

Hint: It's the word "required". What happens if you only have 50 legit "contacts" and you're three days out from the end of the month?

Anonymous Matthew July 25, 2013 12:23 PM  

jamsco, what do you think happens at the end of the month when an officer hasn't met his quota?

I'm usually completely unaware of the date, but I can always tell when a month is closing out because of the ridiculous number of police cars I see, both cruising and pulling people over.

Anonymous Salt July 25, 2013 12:24 PM  

William Anderson had an article at Lew Rockwell a while back. In it he asked readers if anyone had ever had a positive experience with a prosecutor. Here was my email reply -

Depends how you look at it. On the one hand, absolutely.

I was in court on a ticket for Following To Closely (I-25 outside Denver at rush hour). The asst. prosecutor said she'd knock it down to a lesser charge and fine plus Costs of Court, naturally.

I declined her gracious offer. She said she'd be more than happy to prosecute me. Lovely, I thought.

She did her woop-dee-woop with the cop on the stand. Then it was my turn.

"Officer," I asked, "was there an accident?"

"No sir," he replied.

I then had him read the Statute. Paraphrasing - "Following to Closely is a misdemeanor only provable by the existence of an accident."

Case dismissed. The judge was royally pissed at me, said I was the lowest of the low ever to have been in his courtroom.
But I had a great time. So, in answer to your question, yes, I positively had a great experience with the prosecutor.

On my way out I passed her table - "That was great," I said. "Was it good for you too?"

She glared at me.

Wonderful.


Anonymous Matthew July 25, 2013 12:25 PM  

An Austin police lieutenant, disappointed at the number of traffic citations being written in his patrol district, told officers in a memo to begin writing more tickets or they would not be eligible for overtime assignments.

Lt. Carl Zimmerman instructed supervisors in a Dec. 4 memo to inform him when an officer doesn't write a ticket during a shift and what the officer was doing that prevented traffic enforcement.


Blogger jamsco July 25, 2013 12:25 PM  

"You're assuming that. It might not be the case."

If it weren't the case, I'm pretty sure this article would have mentioned it.

"Hint: It's the word "required". What happens if you only have 50 legit "contacts" and you're three days out from the end of the month?"

If you've only dealt with 50 people, what have you been doing all month?

Anonymous Daniel July 25, 2013 12:34 PM  

Is this really that extreme?

Good question. The answer is yes. If everyone is having 1.5 official contacts with a police officer per year, that is extreme. The average person has one traffic accident once every 18 years. The average person makes less than 3 police related 911 calls in their lifetimes that involve a visit. The average person will not experience a health-related 911 call, and those that do will be visited most typically by a hospital service, not a police officer.

The average person will involve the fire department in a fire call.

Thus, 72,000 contacts are primarily arrests, tickets and warnings. The biggest of those three are tickets. It means that - more than likely - every person in town (including children) is getting at least one non-dangerous traffic ticket per year.

That's a massive resource spend (and revenue source) that has literally nothing to do with protection and service.

Anonymous Josh July 25, 2013 12:36 PM  

If it weren't the case, I'm pretty sure this article would have mentioned it.

That's another assumption.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 July 25, 2013 12:39 PM  

If you've only dealt with 50 people, what have you been doing all month?

In better days, keeping the peace.

Blogger jamsco July 25, 2013 12:43 PM  

"Thus, 72,000 contacts are primarily arrests, tickets and warnings. The biggest of those three are tickets. It means that - more than likely - every person in town (including children) is getting at least one non-dangerous traffic ticket per year."

That's helpful, Daniel. Do you have a suggestion as to where I could go to see a statistical breakdown of arrests, tickets, warnings and others?

Anonymous Sigyn July 25, 2013 12:44 PM  

If you've only dealt with 50 people, what have you been doing all month?

Maybe you've been doing your job. Auburn, AL, averages 42 crimes per 1,000 residents annually. With a population of 50K, that's going to be 2,100 crimes annually.

Does it take 30 in-person "contacts" per crime to get it all handled?

Anonymous Noah B. July 25, 2013 12:48 PM  

"Sounds like capitalistic economy of action. A private libertarian police force would be non-responsive in comparison."

Northfield, Minnesota, 1876.

Dipshit.

Anonymous Noah B. July 25, 2013 12:54 PM  

"Sounds like capitalistic economy of action. A private libertarian police force would be non-responsive in comparison."

And then of course there was Columbine. How long did the police take to "form a perimeter" before they entered the school? Any chance some of those kids who died might have lived if the cops hadn't been so gutless?

Anonymous civilServant July 25, 2013 12:58 PM  

Having one of the highest incarceration rates in the world is truly the hallmark of a free society.

That would depend upon the population in question. Yes? In any case it appears that the assertion that the system is non-responsive to serious crimes is untrue.

I'm sure he had a quota to meet.

That is very possible. I confirm that many departments in fact have informal unstated but enforced ticket quotas. There are many reasons why but the single most influential reason is because the number of tickets written is a ready metric for "productivity". If an officer reports that he "warned and advised" twenty people during a shift then the supervisor has nothing substantial to report. In fact the officer may have been sleeping all shift. But if the officer writes ten tickets then the supervisor can demonstrate that the officer has been active on the street. Private libertarian police forces will be subject to such bureaucratic dynamics. In fact more so.

Mostly for drug crimes.

This is not a result of "blue rot" but rather the result of legislation. In any case given that .70 of whites and .50 of blacks were under the influence of an illegal drug when they committed the non-drug-related felony for which they were incarcerated this seems very tenable.

Anonymous Clay July 25, 2013 12:59 PM  

Maybe they need to send the University of Alabama Campus Police over to Auburn to whoop them boys into shape.

Blogger Jozum July 25, 2013 12:59 PM  

I am a former cop who left the profession for similar reasoning; I was protecting the command staff and the city coffers more than the citizenry. So, while it hurts to read and see all the vitriol being passed on to my former profession, sadly, I cannot disagree with much of what has been written and said about the profession.

Writing speeding tickets, stop sign tickets and other revenue generating (and make no mistake it is ALL about revenue. Any cop who says it is about safety should not be allowed to carry a badge and a gun) activities does NOTHING to lower or lessen crime. Traffic violations are not criminal; they are a nuisance to be sure but not criminal to the extent that it has been taken today. Three words: follow the money.

Many of my former co-workers are/were some of the best in the business at "protect and serve." However, as with all things, times change and the current crop are mostly mind-numbed robots who do what they are told when they are told to do it, else they are suspended or continually written up for disobeying orders. Excessive number of write-ups and the dismissal is easy and the command robots are able to replace the "malcontent" with more of their ilk. Granted, there are some "John Wayne" types whose ego are bigger than the continent, however, when threatened with being fired who is going to disobey an order (even one that is stupid and idiotic like traffic violations) when they have a family to feed? Not gonna happen and the circle continues.

Blogger James Dixon July 25, 2013 1:01 PM  

> Dipshit.

I'm sorry Noah B., Phoenician has that trademarked for use in this blog.

Anonymous Noah B. July 25, 2013 1:02 PM  

The contacts "included tickets, arrests, field interviews, and warnings", but I assume they also include helping people stalled on the road, or answering phone calls, or dealing with traffic accidents, or fires, or heart attacks.

It's only going to include cases in which the police officer initiates contact with a citizen and has probable cause to believe that a criminal offense has been committed. Otherwise, the officers could just write down 50 cases of "helped a little girl find her kitten" and "helped a homeless guy who had lost his beer."

No, administrators wants citizens' private data entered into a auditable database.

Anonymous Noah B. July 25, 2013 1:02 PM  

My bad, James. I need to take a shower now.

Blogger Jozum July 25, 2013 1:04 PM  

And I forgot to verify, Josh, you are correct. A "contact" is NOT any of the non ticket issuing or arrest type of activities. The rule is if you stop someone, you had better write a ticket or else it does not count towards your daily productivity.

Blogger James Dixon July 25, 2013 1:04 PM  

> In any case it appears that the assertion that the system is non-responsive to serious crimes is untrue.

Only if you consider drug crimes "serious crimes".

> This is not a result of "blue rot" but rather the result of legislation.

Problems which stem from the same source.

Anonymous Jeigh Di July 25, 2013 1:07 PM  

"To the contrary, "To Protect and Serve" is a motto that serious minded Americans honor and respect, realizing the men and women in blue are diligent in their duties. Let that be a lesson for you when your precious daughter is brutally gang-raped by illegal immigrants and you seek justice within the framework of the law. The "fuck the police" meme among the ilk is at the very least outlandish."

For those of you who haven't figured it out, Captain America was being sarcastic.

But it is far more profitable and safer to protect us law-abiding types from those nefarious evil doers who refuse to buckle their seat belts or repair that brake light than to go after those who might actually fight back.

Anonymous Mike July 25, 2013 1:09 PM  

"Sounds like capitalistic economy of action. A private libertarian police force would be non-responsive in comparison."

That is sheer unadulterated idiocy. A private libertarian police force would consist of people who get paid to be there and DO THEIR JOB, which is to be responsive. In a private system, you don't do your job, you lose it and someone else does it. You want to get paid, then respond before someone else shows they can do it better than you and gets you fired. In Amerika, the cops never lose their jobs, regardless how useless they are. Of course, their mandate is to enforce the will of the state, not prevent crimes, so the gov't would never get rid of them as they are not perceived to be doing anything wrong.

Of course, this comes from someone who is somewhat biased. I genuinely believe that it is the job of cops to be responsive and to prevent crimes from happening, not just clean up the stains from the pavement afterwards.

And as far as money is concerned, from WikiPedia:

"The cost of San Francisco's private patrol specials is $25–30/hour, compared to $58/hour for an off-duty police officer. In Reminderville, Corporate Security outbid the Summit County Sheriff Department's offer to charge the community $180,000 per year for 45-minute response time emergency response service by offering a $90,000 contract for twice as many patrol cars and a 6-minute response time."

Do you have any evidence for your statement or are you just talking out of your ass?

Anonymous civilServant July 25, 2013 1:10 PM  

Sounds like capitalistic economy of action. A private libertarian police force would be non-responsive in comparison.

Northfield, Minnesota, 1876.


1876.

Sounds like capitalistic economy of action. A private libertarian police force would be non-responsive in comparison.

And then of course there was Columbine. How long did the police take to "form a perimeter" before they entered the school? Any chance some of those kids who died might have lived if the cops hadn't been so gutless?


Actually if you have been paying attention you will have noticed (or will be attempting to avoid noticing) that most police forces have adjusted their responses as a direct consequence of that event. The present standard response is to move in immediately without awaiting any directions or backup. Recall the recent mass shooting in Canada which was greatly reduced because a female officer realizing what was happening immediately moved in and identified the shooter and stopped him before he could cause much damage. One may search for other recent mass shootings and find the same new response being implemented.

But of course this new response is being implemented by public agencies with public responsibilities. A private libertarian police force will be wholly-owned and operated by whoever its owners are and will have only its owners' interests in mind. It will be far more hide-bound and unresponsive than the Columbine police and permanently so without recourse.

Blogger Joshua_D July 25, 2013 1:11 PM  

civilServant, jamsco, are either of you related to any law enforcement officers?

Anonymous Noah B. July 25, 2013 1:14 PM  

"One may search for other recent mass shootings and find the same new response being implemented."

Like... Sandy Hook? The blue lightning was right on top of that one.

Anonymous Noah B. July 25, 2013 1:16 PM  

That's right, 1876. But it destroys your contention that those who are largely outside the control of government are inherently incapable of organizing and taking action for the common good.

Anonymous civilServant July 25, 2013 1:17 PM  

In any case it appears that the assertion that the system is non-responsive to serious crimes is untrue.

Only if you consider drug crimes "serious crimes".


If the cite of .70 and .50 is insufficient then perhaps some hospital emergency room data would provide objective criteria for considering "drug crimes" to be "serious crimes".

This is not a result of "blue rot" but rather the result of legislation.

Problems which stem from the same source.


And that source will be Most People. Yes?

Anonymous civilServant July 25, 2013 1:20 PM  

Sounds like capitalistic economy of action. A private libertarian police force would be non-responsive in comparison.

A private libertarian police force would consist of people who get paid to be there and DO THEIR JOB, which is to be responsive.


Yes. Responsive to their employers' interests. Which will not be yours. Unless you happen to be rich enough to warrant and purchase and equip your own police force.

It will be a small club and you will not be in it.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 25, 2013 1:22 PM  

For those of you who haven't figured it out, Captain America was being sarcastic.

Yes, of course he was. Of course.

/wink/

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 25, 2013 1:24 PM  

It will be a small club and you will not be in it.

Whereas modern police are a large club, and you are on the receiving end of it.

Anonymous Noah B. July 25, 2013 1:25 PM  

"A private libertarian police force will be wholly-owned and operated by whoever its owners are and will have only its owners' interests in mind. It will be far more hide-bound and unresponsive than the Columbine police and permanently so without recourse."

Which is exactly the reason for free markets: to provide competition, which forces business to provide the goods and services demanded by the market. Right now, competition for emergency services is non-existent.

Anonymous Noah B. July 25, 2013 1:27 PM  

"Unless you happen to be rich enough to warrant and purchase and equip your own police force."

Or pay a small amount to subscribe to emergency services. You don't have much in the way of imagination, do you? I guess that doesn't go well with your chosen profession.

Anonymous civilServant July 25, 2013 1:27 PM  

That's right, 1876. But it destroys your contention that those who are largely outside the control of government are inherently incapable of organizing and taking action for the common good.

I made no such contention.

civilServant, jamsco, are either of you related to any law enforcement officers?

No I am not.

Though I may point out that Nate fits a LEO-related profile. Not matches but fits.

Anonymous patrick kelly July 25, 2013 1:28 PM  

@jamsco:"If you've only dealt with 50 people, what have you been doing all month?"

Depends on why you had to deal with those 50 people. Maybe it required more time and effort than writing a ticket for wearing ugly sunglasses.

AFAIK cops routinely take 30 day paid leave during the investigation after a shooting, so 1 person could tie up a whole month of productivity.

Anonymous . July 25, 2013 1:31 PM  

A private libertarian police force would consist of people who get paid to be there and DO THEIR JOB, which is to be responsive.

Yes. Responsive to their employers' interests. Which will not be yours. Unless you happen to be rich enough to warrant and purchase and equip your own police force.

It will be a small club and you will not be in it.


Think gated community with their own squad of rentacops.

Anonymous Noah B. July 25, 2013 1:32 PM  

"I made no such contention."

You did. Repeatedly.

You said, "It will be a small club and you will not be in it." That's logically equivalent to stating that a libertarian police force would not provide services to the public. Do you need it broken down into smaller pieces? Have I taken too large an intellectual leap for you here?

Anonymous civilService July 25, 2013 1:36 PM  

A private libertarian police force will be wholly-owned and operated by whoever its owners are and will have only its owners' interests in mind. It will be far more hide-bound and unresponsive than the Columbine police and permanently so without recourse.

Which is exactly the reason for free markets: to provide competition, which forces business to provide the goods and services demanded by the market. Right now, competition for emergency services is non-existent.


Competition between private police departments - two armed bodies of men in competition over who will keep their jobs and their houses. That would be quite a show! Yes?

The movie "Gangs of New York" depicts a competition between two private fire departments who arrive at a fire simultaneously. They brawl in the street over who will put out the fire while the building burns down behind them and the two Brigade Chiefs debate who has jurisdiction. It is a great scene. I recommend the movie.

Unless you happen to be rich enough to warrant and purchase and equip your own police force.

Or pay a small amount to subscribe to emergency services.


Or be force to pay protection money. Perhaps to multiple forces. Yes? After all if one unknown house on the street pays for service then all on the street benefit for free. Yes?

A small fee? You are joking. "Fee for service" policing would be far and away beyond the reach of any but the richest.

Anonymous Robert in Arabia July 25, 2013 1:36 PM  

All of my contacts with policemen in Oman and the United Arab Emirates have been pleasant. A policeman in Arabia did put a bullet in my dashboard in Arabia, but the rest of his bullets put down two terrorists. I am not complaining.

Anonymous civilServant July 25, 2013 1:41 PM  

It will be a small club and you will not be in it.

Think gated community with their own squad of rentacops.


I think you mean "castle" and "men at arms". Sorry. You will not be invited.

I made no such contention.

You did. Repeatedly.


As you wish. Others may judge for themselves.

Anonymous civilServant July 25, 2013 1:43 PM  

Whereas modern police are a large club, and you are on the receiving end of it.

This can be true yes. "A Republic, Madam. If you are able to keep it."

Anonymous Anonymous July 25, 2013 1:46 PM  

CivilServant:
But if the officer writes ten tickets then the supervisor can demonstrate that the officer has been active on the street. Private libertarian police forces will be subject to such bureaucratic dynamics. In fact more so.


But these are the metrics of a police department in the parasitic "law enforcement" bent - inotherwords, contact citizens to force or frighten into compliance for laws that no sane citizen would ever desire in the first place - like illegal sunglasses laws, setting up your tent in the wrong place, breaking branches off a dead sumac tree, etc. It is nothing less than institutionalized harrassment.

The metrics of a service providing "peace officer" police dept would be lower crime rates, better emergency response times, etc.

- Azimus

Anonymous Mike July 25, 2013 1:49 PM  

"Yes. Responsive to their employers' interests. Which will not be yours. Unless you happen to be rich enough to warrant and purchase and equip your own police force.

It will be a small club and you will not be in it."

In a libertarian, private system, I am of course capable of hiring my own crew. From a public governance perspective though, under libertarianism, most government activities are limited to a municipal level, so each city hires it's own private crew of cops to keep the peace. In this case, they do what the city wants, which will be to keep me happy, because I will as a resident stay in the city and pay municipal taxes so the government has revenue. If I don't like the city's track record of keeping the peace, I move and the city loses my tax fees. So yes, they will do what I want. Or I leave and go to another city where the mandate of the city cops is to make me happy.

Anonymous Anonymous July 25, 2013 1:51 PM  

CivilServant:
It will be far more hide-bound and unresponsive than the Columbine police and permanently so without recourse
.

Naked assertion.

- Azimus

Anonymous Daniel July 25, 2013 1:56 PM  

That's helpful, Daniel. Do you have a suggestion as to where I could go to see a statistical breakdown of arrests, tickets, warnings and others?

None, other than deduction. A town of 50,000 will have approximately

Something like 35,000 people are arrested every day in a population of 330 million (includes illegals). That means in a town of 50,000, 8 people will be arrested per day (and that's high, based on towns of 50,000 that I've lived in. There is a concentration of arrests in dense urban areas over and above the head count). That's a total of just under 3,000 annual contacts due to arrests.

That knocks it down to 69,000 contacts per year that are not arrest related. Basically, all you've got left are warnings and tickets. Warnings are non-revenue. Simply take a poll of five people you know. Average how many more tickets they've received, life time, vs. warnings. There will be sex disparity, but in either case, tickets will dwarf warnings by a mile.

There's no way that 18,000+ warnings are included in this stat, and then accounting for the tiny portion of back-up calls on health and fire emergencies, you can see that every man, woman, child and infant in town is caught speeding every year.

Anonymous patrick kelly July 25, 2013 1:58 PM  

OT: test - did I post something that annoyed a moderator? My last 3 post attempts here and another thread have disappeared.

Anonymous Anonymous July 25, 2013 1:58 PM  

All we truly need to fix this problem is to make the fine for all ordinance violations a maximum of $10, and actual crimes carry no financial penalty whatever. The quota system would go away, police departments would shrink, would not be able to afford superfluous totalitarian crap like tanks and drones, and we would all be happy to go to officer friendly for assistance again.

I agree a "libertarian" for-profit police force is not the answer.

- Azimus

Anonymous Daniel July 25, 2013 2:02 PM  

"Fee for service" policing would be far and away beyond the reach of any but the richest.

This is crazy. My county did not provide taxpayer provided police services where I lived. We ate Spam on special occasions.

We paid for private peace officers and emergency service, and so did our neighbors who had far less money than we did. The rich farmer at the other corner was friends with the county, paid for no private services, and somehow miraculously had the Sherriff covering his property, on taxpayer dime.

Try coming up with a real life example.

Anonymous Stilicho July 25, 2013 2:07 PM  

N.K. Jemisin called fellow SFWA member Elizabeth Moon a "bigot," a "useless white liberal" and a white Christian supremacist.

Ah. What did Moon's boyfriend, Scott Lynch, have to say about that? Did he squee again?

Anonymous Nah July 25, 2013 2:08 PM  

All we truly need to fix this problem is to make the fine for all ordinance violations a maximum of $10, and actual crimes carry no financial penalty whatever.

If it were possible to fix the problem that way, it wouldn't exist in the first place.

Politicians need to provide gimmedats to powerful interest groups in exchange for votes. They have NO incentive to reduce the fine for all ordinance violations to $10. They have every incentive to keep milking "violators" for as much as possible. "The people" won't vote them out for doing this, because they don't care about high fines as much as the interest group voting blocs care about their gimmedats.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 25, 2013 2:21 PM  

Ah. What did Moon's boyfriend, Scott Lynch, have to say about that? Did he squee again?

He could say nothing on the subject, lest he arouse general sensibilities against Ms. Jemisin and be accused of raising a "Lynch mob".

Blogger RobertT July 25, 2013 2:37 PM  

The Hunger Games are not that inconceivable.

Anonymous RJ July 25, 2013 2:54 PM  

J July 25, 2013 10:42 AM

People have to start challenging the system. The best way is to crash the system. Just let it burn. Burn it down. Challenge every ticket in court, to the max. possible.

They already have an answer to that -- if you fight it in court, they make you pay a bunch of "court costs" and "processing fees" in addition to the fine. That, plus a day off work and perhaps paying a lawyer, is enough to deter most people. (It deterred me from fighting a bullshit parking ticket last year.)

Another deterrent is my past experience of going to court. Traffic court judges are pretty much like Paulie in Goodfellas - no matter what you say, the response is "Fuck you, pay me."


Yep, here's a good example of what actually happens:

Sheldon's day in court

Anonymous Daniel July 25, 2013 2:57 PM  

A cop costs a city $85,000 per year in salary and benefits (pulled that number out of the air). That cop makes a city $250,000 in ticket fines. When a city's economy goes south (i.e. they don't have enough money for more SWAT training) they turn to traffic violations for revenue. A drop in city coffers leads to an increase in the number of speeding tickets issued.

Again, none of this is protecting and serving anyone. It is just a revenue cycle. Policemen are in the business of taxing their fellow citizens. Put another way - St. Matthew in today's world...would have been a cop with a big quota to meet and nice promotion on the line.

Anonymous Captain America July 25, 2013 3:02 PM  

"No, Captain, their duty is to their State, which is their god."

Actually, the duty of law enforcement is to citizens, who consented by majority to create a state for protection of their property, as well as the protection of their neighbor's land.


"Your America is dead, long since. There is only the question of what will take its place."

Actually, my America, while suffering from a number of problems, is chugging right along. Are you helping to ensure that it recuperates, or are you trying to facilitate its demise by refusing to find solutions to its ills? You know, actually do God's work?


"The guy this year was a mid-twenties lunkhead. He wasn't unpleasant - didn't have the complete "cop" vibe of bossing everyone around. But he still wrote the ticket."

Playing the librul victim card!


"You speak of the rape of daughters? Is not this what the police, what the "framework of the law" were intended to prevent?"

First, rape doesn't exist. Women want sex, they just say no to piss off men and get them in trouble. No actually means yes, especially when females are drunk. Second, the prevention of "rape" bears on the broad shoulders of parents--ensure that their sons date virgin girls and their daughters refrain from whoring out their bodies.


"The majority of cops are tax collectors today, extorting honest citizens' money for the non-crime of going 7 over the limit."

"It is nothing less than institutionalized harrassment."

Actually, the police are simply doing their job. Citizens elect politicians. Politicians make laws. Law enforcement ensures they are followed. The proper "blame" is on those who enact the statutes. Here's one solution...why don't you run for office and work to change the system rather than bitch about it?


"Politicians need to provide gimmedats to powerful interest groups in exchange for votes."

Welcome to the wonderful world of politics. Always has been this way, always will be this way.


Noah B.--Which is exactly the reason for free markets: to provide competition, which forces business to provide the goods and services demanded by the market. Right now, competition for emergency services is non-existent.

CivilServant--Competition between private police departments - two armed bodies of men in competition over who will keep their jobs and their houses. That would be quite a show! Yes?

Indeed, it would be a show. And, Noah B. --> FACEPALM!

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 25, 2013 3:08 PM  

First, rape doesn't exist. Women want sex, they just say no to piss off men and get them in trouble. No actually means yes, especially when females are drunk. Second, the prevention of "rape" bears on the broad shoulders of parents--ensure that their sons date virgin girls and their daughters refrain from whoring out their bodies.

Well, you are an impostor. Brave attempt, however.

Anonymous Daniel July 25, 2013 3:28 PM  

First, rape doesn't exist.

So, is that why you think the cops are the ideal defenders against it?

About your logic circuits...ask for them back. Turns out you need them.

Anonymous Noah B. July 25, 2013 3:43 PM  

I noticed you were kind of quiet about the Sandy Hook shooting, civil. Is that the kind of police response we can expect in the post-Columbine days? Or did they need to keep the police away so the kill team could finish the job?

Anonymous Captain America July 25, 2013 3:51 PM  

Sir, I am being logical. Rape is simply a false narrative generated from the scorn of femi-nazis who have a contempt for warm semen. The cops are simply pawns in the sick game these womyn play.

Anonymous Meh July 25, 2013 4:01 PM  

A cop costs a city $85,000 per year in salary and benefits (pulled that number out of the air). That cop makes a city $250,000 in ticket fines. When a city's economy goes south (i.e. they don't have enough money for more SWAT training) they turn to traffic violations for revenue. A drop in city coffers leads to an increase in the number of speeding tickets issued.

They gotta pay him somehow. If they didn't get the money for him from traffic tickets, they'd just raise my property taxes. Since I hardly ever get traffic tickets - and I can avoid them, but I can't avoid paying property tax - this seems like a good deal to me.

Basically, in this system I get police protection for free, yaaay!

Anonymous Anonymous July 25, 2013 4:10 PM  

REG:

"N.K. Jemisin called fellow SFWA member Elizabeth Moon a "bigot," a "useless white liberal" and a white Christian supremacist.

Ah. What did Moon's boyfriend, Scott Lynch, have to say about that? Did he squee again?"

Wrong Elizabeth, Scott's friend is Elizabeth Ball, I believe.
Elizabeth Moon is a former Marine, college professor at the U of Texas I think. I do know that she is a very good writer who sells well.

However N.K. Jemisin did make this statement in her post "I was honest with the folks there about my feelings: that bringing a bigot to WisCon as Guest of Honor was counter to the con's feminist mission, not to mention a slap in the face to a whole bunch of people." Funny that she would speak so eloquently about herself.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 25, 2013 4:33 PM  

Private libertarian police forces will be subject to such bureaucratic dynamics. In fact more so.

Bullshit, and neither does a public police force need to be subject to such metrics. BTW, it's not "informal" either. Years ago I sat on a jury where a State Trooper was forced under oath to admit his department had official quotas for tickets. He didn't want to admit it, but the defense attorney did a full on Perry Mason and said (exact quote) "I'll remind you that you are under oath." That quota was relevant to the case, as the officer's desperate attempt to meet his monthly quota led him to make some unsound choices that involved him in a rush hour traffic pursuit putting several lives at risk over an HOV lane violation.

Anyway, back to the bullshit call. No, writing tickets isn't a measure of productivity for a police force. Reducing crime and traffic accidents is. Here's the measurement: is overall crime up or down over the last year? Are traffic accidents due to irresponsible driving up or down over the last year? If those things are down, the cops are doing their jobs. If they're up, they're not.

But "doing their jobs" is what's being re-defined, isn't it? Their jobs are no longer to "protect and serve" but to extract revenue for the cash-strapped fiefdoms that employ them. So crime down no longer = good job. Actually, crime down probably = bad job, because it makes it harder to justify increased budgets and fancy toys.



Blogger tz July 25, 2013 4:38 PM  

Then there's Chi-town

Anonymous Stilicho July 25, 2013 4:39 PM  

Wrong Elizabeth, Scott's friend is Elizabeth Ball, I believe.

Actually, it's Elizabeth Bear. I stand corrected. Apologies to Elizabeth Moon.

Blogger James Dixon July 25, 2013 4:45 PM  

> If the cite of .70 and .50 is insufficient then perhaps some hospital emergency room data would provide objective criteria for considering "drug crimes" to be "serious crimes".

No, it wouldn't. You really don't understand how prohibition works, do you?

> And that source will be Most People. Yes?

Actually, yes. MPAI, remember?

> Competition between private police departments - two armed bodies of men in competition over who will keep their jobs and their houses. That would be quite a show! Yes?

You know, the last time I checked, ADT and it's equivalents didn't seem to have a problem competing for home security services.

> The movie "Gangs of New York" depicts a competition between two private fire departments who arrive at a fire simultaneously.

Yes, Hollywood directors are famous for understanding how businesses and the markets work, aren't they?

> "Fee for service" policing would be far and away beyond the reach of any but the richest.

The rates quoted in a post above contradict your assertion.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 25, 2013 4:45 PM  

Sir, I am being logical. Rape is simply a false narrative generated from the scorn of femi-nazis who have a contempt for warm semen. The cops are simply pawns in the sick game these womyn play.

Has Captain Rogers offended you again, Agent Romanov? The last time you did this, you were put on unpaid leave.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 25, 2013 4:48 PM  

The movie "Gangs of New York" depicts a competition between two private fire departments who arrive at a fire simultaneously. They brawl in the street over who will put out the fire while the building burns down behind them and the two Brigade Chiefs debate who has jurisdiction. It is a great scene. I recommend the movie.

Yes, because there's nothing like using fiction to drive public policy.

In the movie The Blues Brothers, a bunch of semi-crooked Chicago Cops endanger everyone's lives trying to stop two well-intentioned bluesmen from saving an orphanage. So obviously we should shut down every municipal PD. It's a great movie, I recommend it.


Anonymous Sigyn July 25, 2013 4:48 PM  

Romanov? That Russian bitch who kicks innocent secretaries in the face?

Where's my skillet?!

Anonymous FP July 25, 2013 4:48 PM  

"Of course, a conservative will mock you and call you a cop-hater for opposing all these "safety" measures. They can go to Hell for all I care."

Sure, for me those are the folks I debate the most with on this issue. I had a discussion last night with my brother in law over the whole "go home safe at night" after a local cop shot some guy who was apparently coming at him with intent to harm or something. He got the point but really only for self-defense. He didn't seem to get the point that if the cop's main priority is his own self defense, to go home safe... it leads to corruption or inaction. All while everyone else needs permission to carry a gun.

My brother is a good man but seems to be generally liberal politically (union truck driver) despite knowing the whole Zimmerman trial was a sham and voiced that publically (or at least to family). His best friend's cousin or something is a county mounty and "a good young guy, quiet, wouldn't know he's a cop" etc. and has to patrol a big area alone, "had to put up with PC stuff after dealing with breaking up a fist fight". Yet I don't think he gets that you can't trust any of them, even the ones you know personally.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 25, 2013 4:49 PM  

There you are with that word "innocent" again, Pet.

Anonymous The Next to Last Samurai July 25, 2013 5:01 PM  

I read the screed. Jemison doesn't want a convention or any other kind of gathering of people. What she wants is a roomful of mirrors.

Anonymous Sigynmond Fraud And LokiWhatIFound July 25, 2013 5:35 PM  

"No, writing tickets isn't a measure of productivity for a police force. Reducing crime and traffic accidents is."

Mmmm, if a person has a tendency to speed, but receives a speeding ticket, and then decides in the future to watch how they put the "pedal to the medal", the police have helped to facilitate individual responsibility

Here is one study on the matter. Judge for yourself.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17366333


"In the movie The Blues Brothers, a bunch of semi-crooked Chicago Cops endanger everyone's lives trying to stop two well-intentioned bluesmen from saving an orphanage. So obviously we should shut down every municipal PD. It's a great movie, I recommend it."

That's why it is called comedy. The scene in Gangs Of New York is based on fact. Try again!

Anonymous Noah B. July 25, 2013 5:43 PM  

Yeah, you've got one example of two private fire departments brawling. Versus hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of illegal SWAT raids, wrongful killings of civilians, and refusals by police departments to put down riots. And then there's the day-to-day harassment of citizens that was the subject of this post.

Anonymous Captain America July 25, 2013 5:51 PM  

"Versus hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of illegal SWAT raids, wrongful killings of civilians, and refusals by police departments to put down riots."

Put down the bong.


"And then there's the day-to-day harassment of citizens that was the subject of this post."

Right, because those who break the law should be left alone by the fuzz.

Anonymous patrick kelly July 25, 2013 5:52 PM  

"the day-to-day harassment of citizens that was the subject of this post."

And for the most part it is just that, harassment, or worse, not protecting or serving them, that's for sure.

Anonymous beerme July 25, 2013 5:53 PM  

Can anyone recommend a particular model/type of dash cam? I've been meaning to equip my vehicle with one but have been complacent.

Anonymous Feh July 25, 2013 6:25 PM  

The only thing true about "Gangs of New York" is that the Irish are filthy, drunken, and violent.

Anonymous Geoff July 25, 2013 6:25 PM  

You left out "BANG!"
"drop the gun, sir!"

Anonymous CunningDove July 25, 2013 6:26 PM  

I can't believe no one has mentioned these guys in response to civilservant's "libertarian private police would be priced out of the market" line....

Detroit-based Threat Management Center

The private market can provide public bus services too:
like this

Anonymous Geoff July 25, 2013 6:45 PM  

"Anything a cop has to do to go home alive at the end of his shift."

Anonymous McHuckleberry - est. 1977, County Cork July 25, 2013 6:52 PM  

the Irish are filthy, drunken, and violent

We take baths now.

Blogger Ghost July 25, 2013 7:23 PM  

Ah, the good Germans are licking the boots today, huh? They're just following orders, doing their jobs. Why, they can't help it if the bad politicians make bad laws. If they don't enforce the bullshit laws, they'll be arrested and beaten and tortured to death! They have no choice but to shoot unarmed sleeping elderly citizens during botched drug raids.

Captain, civil,
Do yourselves a favor and watch Larken Rose's When Should You Shoot A Cop.

Blogger James Dixon July 25, 2013 7:26 PM  

> Mmmm, if a person has a tendency to speed, but receives a speeding ticket, and then decides in the future to watch how they put the "pedal to the medal", the police have helped to facilitate individual responsibility

You're making the false assumption that you can't speed responsibly. Speed limits seldom bear any significant relationship to safety.

Anonymous geoff July 25, 2013 7:27 PM  

Cap'n,

you get that the ilk isn't liberal right?

cops aren't going to convince this group that our eyes are lying. too many articles on the day to day exploits of you brownshirts.

and any cop who looks the other way is aiding and abetting. that's how that works

Anonymous hausfrau July 25, 2013 7:40 PM  

One of my oldest friends is a cop. I love her. She's admitted to quietly dumping out baggies of pot so she wouldn't have to report it. She has a peace keeper temperment. That being said, some of the things she has told me about my hometown police force are predictably disgusting. One particular officer, a black man who occasionally taught in our juijitsu class, had answered a domestic dispute call, arrested the man, and decided the girlfriend was clearly flirting with him. So at the end of his nightshift he drove back to the house and let himself in completely unannounced. The woman found him in his underware, cooking breakfast in her kitchen. Not to worry though. The union kept it out of the public eye and he's still on the job. The unions are pure evil. They are the biggest single obstacle to reforming the police.

Anonymous biff July 25, 2013 7:56 PM  

Lot of gibberish on this thread.

Day in day out, cops on radio cars are tasked to respond to calls within five minutes. Bomb threats, neighbourhood bullies, cat up a tree, fistfights, drunk peeing in the street, fix it in five minutes (nine times out of ten) we promote you. Don't, won't.

Not Commie, not PC, just management efficiency. Sorry about your traffic ticket. If it was handled in five minutes or less the officer was rewarded. Not, not.

Why? Radio cars. They are there to be available for a REAL emergency. Which your chicken- problem isn't. Sorry. Five minutes or less, got to move on-

Anonymous liljoe July 25, 2013 8:18 PM  

I'm tired of the m- f'n jackin!

That goes for you too, Weiner!

Blogger AMDG July 25, 2013 8:42 PM  

And the tragedy was swept aside once Sandyhook gave political cover for gun control, which the CT state police relish because in emboldens them and aggrandizes their monopoly of force.

Anonymous Azimus July 25, 2013 8:42 PM  

biff
July 25, 2013 7:56 PM Lot of gibberish on this thread.


You have not reduced the gibberish problem with your comments.






Anonymous p-dawg July 25, 2013 9:00 PM  

@CivilServant: "And yet the United States has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. Perhaps the "rot" is not as widespread as the agitation would suggest."

"That would depend upon the population in question. Yes? In any case it appears that the assertion that the system is non-responsive to serious crimes is untrue."

Who are you talking to, here? Do you think we're stupid enough to believe that simple possession (the #1 reason for incarceration in the US) is a serious crime? Do you think that having more people incarcerated, both in percentage and in real numbers, than any other despotic regime in the world means that we're doing something right?

Anonymous Anonymous July 25, 2013 9:05 PM  

REG

"Stilicho July 25, 2013 4:39 PM

Wrong Elizabeth, Scott's friend is Elizabeth Ball, I believe.

Actually, it's Elizabeth Bear. I stand corrected. Apologies to Elizabeth Moon."

My apologies to Elizabeth Ball, whoever and wherever she may be, as well.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 25, 2013 9:17 PM  

The scene in Gangs Of New York is based on fact. Try again!

Okay, fine. You're a moron.

Well, you asked...

I mean, you're still advocating public policy based on a fucking movie, you idiot. The scene is based on a true story? Great, one incident, spectacular enough to make it into a move as a set-piece scene, and you want to make national decisions on it. Your argument is imbecilic.

Anonymous Jack Amok July 25, 2013 9:19 PM  

Mmmm, if a person has a tendency to speed, but receives a speeding ticket, and then decides in the future to watch how they put the "pedal to the medal", the police have helped to facilitate individual responsibility

In which case, traffic safety data will improve to reflect that. OTOH, if the coppers are just running revenue enhancement operations, then there will be no improvement in traffic safety, regardless of the number of tickets, er, sorry, "contacts" the cops make.

Measuring safety is the right way to do this. You're just hamstring for an excuse for the shakedown operation.

Blogger James Dixon July 25, 2013 9:20 PM  

> Five minutes or less, got to move on-

So all I have to do is keep a cop for 10 minutes while he's writing me a ticket and they'll eventually decide I'm not worth the trouble? That's very useful information. If true, of course.

Anonymous . July 25, 2013 9:20 PM  

"So at the end of his nightshift he drove back to the house and let himself in completely unannounced. The woman found him in his underware, cooking breakfast in her kitchen."

He got the bang, though, right? So what's the problem? She felt guilty afterwards or something?

Anonymous Azimus July 25, 2013 9:22 PM  

I mean, you're still advocating public policy based on a f*cking movie, you idiot.

Isn't that why we all "Inconvenient"ly pay a hidden carbon offset tax in our utility bills?

Anonymous hausfrau July 25, 2013 9:53 PM  

He got the bang, though, right? So what's the problem? She felt guilty afterwards or something?


no idea. Presumably she just was less than flattered. I do know that he also got caught driving back to his house while on duty and going back to bed.

Anonymous biff July 25, 2013 10:01 PM  

>So all I've got to do is keep a cop for ten minutes and he'll decide I'm not worth the trouble? Useful information if true-


Good luck James. Or, you know, drive inside the limit.

If you want to chat with Paddy walking the beat, plenty of time to chat, you want to pay for lot's of Paddy's brother cop salaries. Don't, you pay for 1/100th as many cops driving radio cars, responding fast, moving on fast.

Pick one.

Blogger James Dixon July 25, 2013 10:07 PM  

> Or, you know, drive inside the limit.

Since when does driving inside the limit have anything to do with getting a speeding ticket. Half of the tickets I've ever gotten the cop was lying about my speed.

> Pick one.

I'll take neither.

Anonymous Lana July 25, 2013 10:38 PM  

I've found that a very good way to convince regular conservatives that the police are completely overstepping their original purpose is to encourage them to obtain a concealed carry permit. These classes, at least in our area, really open some eyes among the people who continue to support the cops and assume if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Several people have had their eyes opened in my circle.

Speaking of cop interaction, we lately had a national incident over a cop's behavior regarding open carry around these parts. Tonight, we ate at a local, popular steak house and the SWAT team was there, waiting on tables, opening doors and giving the kiddies tours of the humvee outside. Trying to patch up public perception?

I couldn't decide which was the most disturbing, the fact that our SWAT waiter told us the water would hamper our buzz when we ordered beer? Or my husband leaning over and whispering, "None of these guys have clips in their guns. I guess they forgot about Luby's?" It was rather surreal.

Anonymous Ain July 25, 2013 11:20 PM  

Jamsco: "This means the officers are making 4.5 contacts with people in a given day. And a given person in the town has 1.4 contacts with a police officer in a given year. Is this really that extreme?"

You can't lump helping a stranded motorist together with trying to find a reason to write a citation, but their definition of "contact" does just that. It's erroneous and misleading, and a game we have come to expect the government to play. They should be two totally separate stats.

Anonymous Captain America July 25, 2013 11:31 PM  

"I can't believe no one has mentioned these guys in response to civilservant's "libertarian private police would be priced out of the market" line...."

The underlying message from the source is that the private firms try to prevent the conditions which lead to crime using love and compassion. Sounds socialist to me. Moreover, the bus company uses soy biodiesel. Sounds eco-friendly to me. Two big freaking no-nos. And, apparently, those companies rarely enter da hood. Yes, let's remove gummint entirely from providing services to people and let the free market work. Hey, if anarchy in the ghetto worked Somalia would be a utopian paradise.


"I mean, you're still advocating public policy based on a fucking movie, you idiot."

Fuckface, the point is that private firms in the business of offering public services will ALWAYS in the end focus on profits, regardless if there is competition.


"cops aren't going to convince this group that our eyes are lying. too many
articles on the day to day exploits of you brownshirts."

The obligatory Nazi reference. Bravo, sir, bravo.

Anonymous Anonymous July 26, 2013 12:17 AM  

Cap'n America: And, apparently, those companies rarely enter da hood

To be fair, the thin blue line has places it rarely enters too. Cops are human too. Who's it easier to have a "contact" with? A professional, civilized guy in a corvette with money who at most will get mouthy or a dangerous, hardened criminal who's probably packing heat, might shoot the cop and won't pay the ticket at all events anyway? And see this becomes the pathetic system that preys on the very people its supposed to protect. And also impress with drones and black tanks.

- Azimus

Anonymous Phil Mann (aka "Victor Gamble" per Carlos Danger psuedonym name generator)) July 26, 2013 12:17 AM  

Captain America -- please answer:

Let that be a lesson for you when your precious daughter is brutally gang-raped by illegal immigrants and you seek justice within the framework of the law.

How is it that our virtuous enforcers of the law failed to take action against these "illegal immigrants" in the first place? After all, the law is the law is it not? No illegal immigrants, no rape? Right? Are you suggesting our police are not doing their job?

Right, because those who break the law should be left alone by the fuzz.

Yeah, that's kind of our point, no? (See " illegal immigrants" supra. Whose job is it to deal with them anyway? Ours?)

Actually, the duty of law enforcement is to citizens, who consented by majority to create a state for protection of their property, as well as the protection of their neighbor's land.

You are familiar with the holding in Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 US 748 - 2005? Right? Please reconcile your claim that, "the duty of law enforcement is to citizens" with the holding of that case. If you can do it in a convincing manner, I will bow in respect.

Unsolicited advice but I'll offer it anyway: Hang around this place for a bit and read the comments of the regulars before making assumptions as to their views. This isn't the place for the usual collection of sheep and followers who let others do their thinking for them.


Anonymous Jack Amok July 26, 2013 12:29 AM  

Fuckface, the point is that private firms in the business of offering public services will ALWAYS in the end focus on profits, regardless if there is competition.

Hey, shithead, you seem to have missed the point of this entire thread - that public firms (that would be the local municipal Police Department, in case you're having trouble keeping up) are already doing the exact thing you claim makes private companies a bad idea.

That's the basic problem with you lefties - you think calling something public* magically makes it better, keeps it from being co-opted by greedy bastards looking for money and power. News flash, it doesn't. If you don't understand that point, then you are, as Vox says, too short for this ride.

* was it P. J. O'Rourke who pointed out public toilets are the perfect metaphor for government programs?

Anonymous Jack Amok July 26, 2013 12:36 AM  

And, just to pile on, private firms that focus on profits usually manage to make some. OTOH, public agencies hoover up ever greater sums of money and are still functionally insolvent. The graft and corruption inside public organizations is usually far worse than that inside private ones. And if you want to be really complete, corporations are typically in between, less corrupt than government agencies, more corrupt than privately held companies.

So, if you have to make a choice between being fleeced by a private firm and fleeced by a government agency, pick the private firm. There's some chance they may actually be satisfied with what they steal from you. But the government agency is going to blow through whatever they stole from you and be back for more, more, more.

Anonymous Anonymous July 26, 2013 1:22 AM  

"Yes, let's remove gummint entirely from providing services to people and let the free market work. Hey, if anarchy in the ghetto worked Somalia would be a utopian paradise."

Jesus Christ, you're fucking stupid. The ghetto and Somalia are out of control because of Somalians, i.e. niggers. Now shut the fuck up.

- Sambo

Anonymous Luke July 26, 2013 3:33 AM  

allyn71 July 25, 2013 9:15 AM

"Same purge is happening in the military. Besides all the direct removals of command and other administrative actions, the social experiments are designed to create an environment so hostile to a decent person that they can't stand to be there anymore.

This letter is an example. It's sentiments have been echoed to me by several family members and friends currently in the military"


http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/07/a-letter-from-a-marine-captain-in-afghanistan.html

I heard about how one young USMC officer who was getting out described part of his motivation for doing so:

"When I joined up, homosexuality was forbidden. Now it's allowed. I'm getting out before they make it mandatory."

Anonymous FP July 26, 2013 11:08 AM  

"Fuckface, the point is that private firms in the business of offering public services will ALWAYS in the end focus on profits, regardless if there is competition."

And what are the public firms focusing on these days? Sure doesn't seem to be crime. Lately its been walking in lock step with their political masters to ban people from owning guns or defending themselves.

Click it or ticket! 30 years of propaganda to wear your belt to save your life in an accident and now they're rolling out a nation wide campaign and are ticketing for it? Hell, congress mandated the car makers put in warning chimes to buckle the driver's belt.

Anonymous CunningDove July 26, 2013 11:45 AM  

Captain America July 25, 2013 11:31 PM
The underlying message from the source is that the private firms try to prevent the conditions which lead to crime using love and compassion. Sounds socialist to me.


Then you clearly do not understand socialism. The motivation is not nearly as important as the results. The results being less crime. The soviets talked a great deal about love & compassion, as they starved people & "disappeared" them to re-education camps. The results are what matter.

Moreover, the bus company uses soy biodiesel. Sounds eco-friendly to me. Two big freaking no-nos.

Biodiesel is not a "no-no" any more than being eco-friendly is. Unless, one is using force to "make me" pay for it. The idea that one can not freely chose to be eco-friendly because it is what the Red team does, & I'm on the Blue team is quite myopic. That way of approaching problems within society has lead to exactly the problems that we have today. Let many people compete for profits to determine what people want.

And, apparently, those companies rarely enter da hood. Yes, let's remove gummint entirely from providing services to people and let the free market work. Hey, if anarchy in the ghetto worked Somalia would be a utopian paradise.

Just curious, how much time have you spent in "da-hood"? What do you know about the culture from personal experience? I freely admit that I have not ever lived there. I've gone to church on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. Not, I showed up once in a while to pass out free food. I joined the church, every Sunday & Wednesday night I was there. I had friends that lived there, & had lived there all their lives. It was a small self-selecting sample. It is also part of the reason I began to question my opinion of the benevolence of the police.

There is a reason that the cops are not wanted in da hood. They make things worse, 'You see, why did you call the police? They don't help you,'

Another example of the ways that "ghettos" can achieve lower crime rates is from New York City of all places. You may notice a familiar ideal behind this group. Which you will dismiss I'm sure, because it is all about using love & compassion to lessen the conditions where crime grows.
No Shootings or Killings for 363 Days...

To quote Hayak from the Econ Rap video...
"I want plans by the many, not by the few."

Anonymous Captain America July 26, 2013 12:23 PM  

To Phil Mann:

"How is it that our virtuous enforcers of the law failed to take action against these "illegal immigrants" in the first place? After all, the law is the law is it not? No illegal immigrants, no rape? Right? Are you suggesting our police are not doing their job?"

Illegal immigrants should be immediately rounded up and deported. The law ought to be changed so that their children born in the United States are NOT citizens. Political and economic interests are disabling the federal government from fulfilling its duty to ensure our borders are safe. Local law enforcement should be able to take on this responsibility, but are prohibited by Constitutional authority. Satisfied?


“You are familiar with the holding in Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 US 748 - 2005? Right? Please reconcile your claim that, "the duty of law enforcement is to citizens" with the holding of that case. If you can do it in a convincing manner, I will bow in respect.”

The blame is on the woman. Don’t they always ruin everything? Jessica Gonzales had filed a restraining order against her husband. He was required to remain 100 yards from her and her three daughters. However, she allowed her husband on occasion to take them. Apparently, there was enough trust on her part to “allow” her children to be with their father. When she informed the police of this fact, they were not legally compelled to honor the arrangement. Colorado law did not make enforcement of restraining orders mandatory; a well-established tradition of police discretion coexisted with this statute. A Colorado officer would therefore have latitude to determine whether imminent danger existed and necessitated immediate action. The whereabouts were known to the wife; therefore, the statute did not mandate that officers immediately arrest him, but only to seek a warrant for his arrest.

The issue before the Supreme Court was “Can the holder of a restraining order bring a procedural due process claim against a local government for its failure to enforce the order and protect the holder from violence?”

No. In a 7-2 decision, the Court ruled that Gonzales had no constitutionally- protected property interest in the enforcement of the restraining order, and therefore could not claim that the police had violated her right to due process. In order to have a "property interest" in a benefit as abstract as enforcement of a restraining order, the Court ruled, Gonzales would have needed a "legitimate claim of entitlement" to the benefit. The opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia found that state law did not entitle the holder of a restraining order to any specific mandatory action by the police. Instead, restraining orders only provide grounds for arresting the subject of the order. The specific action to be taken is up to the discretion of the police. The Court stated that "This is not the sort of 'entitlement' out of which a property interest is created." The Court concluded that since "Colorado has not created such an entitlement," Gonzales had no property interest and the Due Process Clause was therefore inapplicable.


Sambo--By uttering such foul language, I would suspect that you are indeed a nubian princess.


Jack--Amazing ability to automatically determine that I am a lefty on merely the basis of a blog posting. Are you a magician? A soothsayer?

“The graft and corruption inside public organizations is usually far worse than that inside private ones.”

The lesser than two evils meme. Novel concept. That's the basic problem with you liberitardians--you think privatization magically makes it better, keeps it from being co-opted by greedy bastards looking for money and power. Right back at ya!

Anonymous Jack Amok July 26, 2013 12:38 PM  

Right back at ya!

What are you, twelve?

Anonymous Geoff July 26, 2013 12:47 PM  

No Nazi analogies ever even if apropos? Convenient...

Blogger ex-pastor July 26, 2013 4:00 PM  

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/lawsuit-swat-officers-dragged-10-year-old-bathtub-made-him-stand-naked-next-4-year

Anonymous Noah B. July 26, 2013 4:35 PM  

"Put down the bong."

Bend over for me smart guy, I'll put it where it belongs.

Anonymous Captain America July 26, 2013 8:44 PM  

That's not nice to talk about your crack-head, half-breed brother, Noah B.

Anonymous Phil Mann (aka "Victor Gamble" or whatever) July 26, 2013 10:48 PM  

Thank you Captain for responding substantively. Actual discussions, rather than name-calling, are one of the things that distinguish this blog from too many others. I am happy for your response.

If you truly do believe what you say about about illegal immigrants and our ridiculous policy of granting automatic citizenship to anyone who manages to be born here, whatever the circumstances, I am indeed satisfied.

As to the Gonzales case, the point is that the Supreme Court has repeatedly held that police owe no duty to any particular individual. (I do not remember the name of the case, but I believe it dates back at least 40 years and involved two women who were repeatedly raped in DC despite at least two calls to the police for help that never arrived.) Do you dispute that that is the current state of the law and has been for decades? I still maintain, that, while the police may or may not show up to help, they, as a matter of law, are under no obligation actually to do so. in the final analysis, you are basically on your own. It is for this reason that I continue to disagree that, "the duty of law enforcement is to citizens." This, arguably, might be supported by court pronouncements that police are there to protect society as a whole. But if any individual actually believes the police are there to protect him specifically, he is sadly mistaken.

While I can't speak for Vox, my belief is that the whole point of this "NWA was right" theme is simply to open people's eyes to this reality. It's a matter of honestly seeing things as they are, not as they should be.

Anonymous Anonymous July 26, 2013 11:10 PM  

People like to say that there are cops who are good men, and that's true, but ultimately it's irrelevant, because they invariably will take the side of the cops against civilians no matter what the situation. A cop might be "good" when he's letting you off with a warning for being 5 mph over the speed limit, but not when he's playing dumb about corruption by fellow cops. Internal Affairs seems to be mostly a TV fantasy, and when was the last time you heard about a whistle-blowing cop?

Anonymous Shut Up, Cali July 27, 2013 9:02 AM  

"Internal Affairs seems to be mostly a TV fantasy, and when was the last time you heard about a whistle-blowing cop?"

Relatively recent, thank you very much.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/whistleblowing-press-suit-court-article-1.1209915

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/07/25/video-auburn-cop-fired-for-blowing-the-whistle-on-ticket-arrest-quotas/


"People like to say that there are cops who are good men, and that's true, but ultimately it's irrelevant, because they invariably will take the side of the cops against civilians no matter what the situation."

Care to back up this assertion? Because I was involved in a situation just recently in which one cop was being a dick. I asked for a supervisor, who came on site. He took me aside, listened to my story, and said he would take care of it. I was let go, and the cop who stopped me received an ass-chewing.

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