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Sunday, August 25, 2013

An amazing coincidence

In an amazing and unsettling coincidence, it seems the recent massacre in Syria, which we are supposed to believe was committed by the Assad regime just as it had taken control of the civil war, was anticipated by the need for one more than 18 months in advance. Zerohedge posts a StratFor email from December 2011 via Wikileaks:
I spent most of the afternoon at the Pentagon with the USAF strategic studies group - guys who spend their time trying to understand and explain to the USAF chief the big picture in areas where they're operating in. It was just myself and four other guys at the Lieutenant Colonel level, including one French and one British representative who are liaising with the US currently out of DC.

They wanted to grill me on the strategic picture on Syria, so after that I got to grill them on the military picture. There is still a very low level of understanding of what is actually at stake in Syria, what's the strategic interest there, the Turkish role, the Iranian role, etc. After a couple hours of talking, they said without saying that SOF teams (presumably from US, UK, France, Jordan, Turkey) are already on the ground focused on recce [ZH: "recce" means reconnaissance] missions and training opposition forces. One Air Force intel guy (US) said very carefully that there isn't much of a Free Syrian Army to train right now anyway, but all the operations being done now are being done out of 'prudence.' The way it was put to me was, 'look at this way - the level of information known on Syrian OrBat this month is the best it's been since 2001.' They have been told to prepare contingencies and be ready to act within 2-3 months, but they still stress that this is all being done as contingency planning, not as a move toward escalation.

I kept pressing on the question of what these SOF teams would be working toward, and whether this would lead to an eventual air camapign to give a Syrian rebel group cover. They pretty quickly distanced themselves from that idea, saying that the idea 'hypothetically' is to commit guerrilla attacks, assassination campaigns, try to break the back of the Alawite forces, elicit collapse from within. There wouldn't be a need for air cover, and they wouldn't expect these Syrian rebels to be marching in columns anyway.

They emphasized how the air campaign in Syria makes Libya look like a piece of cake. Syrian air defenses are a lot more robust and are much denser, esp around Damascus and on the borders with Israel, Turkey. THey are most worried about mobile air defenses, particularly the SA-17s that they've been getting recently. It's still a doable mission, it's just not an easy one.

The main base they would use is Cyprus, hands down. Brits and FRench would fly out of there. They kept stressing how much is stored at Cyprus and how much recce comes out of there. The group was split on whether Turkey would be involved, but said Turkey would be pretty critical to the mission to base stuff out of there. EVen if Turkey had a poltiical problem with Cyprus, they said there is no way the Brits and the FRench wouldn't use Cyprus as their main air force base. Air Force Intel guy seems  pretty convinced that the Turks won't participate (he seemed pretty pissed at them.)

There still seems to be a lot of confusion over what a military intervention involving an air campaign would be designed to achieve. It isn't clear cut for them geographically like in Libya, and you can't just create an NFZ over Homs, Hama region. This would entail a countrywide SEAD campaign lasting the duration of the war. They dont believe air intervention would happen unless there was enough media attention on a massacre, like the Ghadafi move against Benghazi. They think the US would have a high tolerance for killings as long as it doesn't reach that very public stage. Theyre also questiioning the skills of the Syrian forces that are operating the country's air defenses currently and how signfiicant the Iranian presence is there. Air Force Intel guy is most obsessed with the challenge of taking out Syria's ballistic missile capabilities and chem weapons. With Israel rgiht there and the regime facing an existential crisis, he sees that as a major complication to any military intervention.
I imagine Mr. Putin knew this already when he expressed his doubts concerning the Syrian regime's responsibility for the attack.  At this point, I wouldn't blame those who are beginning to wonder if the Boston Massacre was a false flag.  We should have known George W. Bush wasn't serious about war with Iran despite all the neocons beating the drum for one, given that the media was never full of atrocities committed by the Iranian government.

So, it looks like Syria is happening and my strategic antenna back in November 2011 were not quite as off-base as I'd concluded they were.

Labels:

98 Comments:

Anonymous Idle Spectator August 25, 2013 4:38 PM  

This is syrious.

Anonymous DailyKos 2002 August 25, 2013 4:41 PM  

Bush = Hitler ... remember that? Good times. Good times.

Anonymous Porky August 25, 2013 5:17 PM  

Was that a reset button or a replay button?

Anonymous fmudd August 25, 2013 5:19 PM  

Air strikes but no serious amount of ground troops from US.

If there is a ground invasion it will be from an international coalition. of mostly European fighters.

Blogger Rantor August 25, 2013 5:20 PM  

But this is a good war cause we're supporting al Qaeda this time. Not like Bush who was fighting AQ, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Taliban. Four years of Hillary's soft power, so important to international relations, prepared us for true success, by changing sides we can win the war on terror.

That made my head hurt.

Blogger Rantor August 25, 2013 5:23 PM  

What will they do if Putin opposes? He seems to get his way a lot lately.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus August 25, 2013 5:25 PM  

Rantor: "But this is a good war cause we're supporting al Qaeda this time. Not like Bush who was fighting AQ, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Taliban."

While continuing to praise Islam and support Muslim immigration into America and other white countries.

Anonymous realmatt August 25, 2013 5:31 PM  

But he has a Nobel Peace Prize.

Anonymous geoff August 25, 2013 5:32 PM  

the pipeline for natgas that the saudis want (and therefore the u.s. govt that works for the house of saud wants it too) will cut deeply into russia's natgas business to europe.

that russian operators might be stationed at aa positions in syria doesn't worry the saudis. after all, it won't be the saudi citizens flying u.s. fighters that get shot down

Anonymous Anonymous August 25, 2013 5:37 PM  

According to reports a few months ago, Russian special forces units are already operating within Syria.

Hopefully they can knock off the jihadists and stop the b.s.

Anonymous YIH August 25, 2013 5:58 PM  

When I heard about this (alleged) chemical weapon strike I thought ''if it were a missile where could it have come from?''. During the Gulf War the analyses generally was ''a chemical weapon warhead is not particularly effective'' concerning the scuds that Iraq was launching both south and west. For various reasons such as dispersal the lethality was limited to the immediate area of impact.
So where could our 'missile' have come from?
Assad's forces? Possibly. 'The rebels', Lebanon, Iraq, Turkey, Jordan? Very unlikely.
So who else is in range? Hmmm? Who would likely have such technology at their disposal? Hmmm? Who would be happy to see the US (or even Europe) 'jump in' to the Syria fray? Hmmm?
Cui bono?

Anonymous DJF August 25, 2013 6:11 PM  

Is Cyprus going to allow the US, Britain and France to fight a war from their territory? They are an independent country.

And if Russia and China block a UN resolution its going to be hard to get diplomatic fig leaf to get Cyprus or for that matter NATO involved. NATO is banned from operating unless they are attacked or have a UN resolution.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben August 25, 2013 6:13 PM  

If Obama starts a war he needs to be impeached. If he isn't it's just another indication that we live under a tyrannical oligarchy.

Anonymous allyn71 August 25, 2013 6:24 PM  

"Is Cyprus going to allow the US, Britain and France to fight a war from their territory? They are an independent country." - DJF August 25, 2013 6:11 PM


LOL, that is funny. Cyprus is independent. You really believe that?

Anonymous allyn71 August 25, 2013 6:31 PM  

Sunni vs. Shia proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran with potential to end up being WWIII.

Is Obama up for another peace prize again this year like they do with the Oscar or is a one and done thing? This act will deserve special recognition.

Anonymous DJF August 25, 2013 6:32 PM  

""""LOL, that is funny. Cyprus is independent. You really believe that?"""

Its military is independent enough that it uses large amounts of Russian equipment.

Anonymous allyn71 August 25, 2013 6:34 PM  

Funny how the week before the supposed chemical weapons attack another bunch of trial balloons went up for the Sun. media talking about a NFZ over Jordan and how US SOF were training resistance fighters and basing them there. In addition there were unconfirmed reports of the first troops heading out for Damascus.

Be interesting to see the US public reaction, I sense they are not down with this but we will see. There is always a couple of idiots they can run in front of the camera to do the "USA, USA" chant. See how long that lasts if the Ruskies and Iranians get pissed off.

Anonymous allyn71 August 25, 2013 6:36 PM  

When the EU tells a nation it's banks have to confiscate depositors assets and enforce capitol controls and they do it, that nation isn't independent.

Anonymous stats79 August 25, 2013 6:57 PM  

This has got nothing to do with Saudi Arabia. That is cover. Israel is behind this false flag. The neo-cons and handlers in Israel telegraphed years ago in papers by the Project for the New American Century that they would remake the Middle East. The hit list: Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran. Things are going as planned. Elect a new "President" if you will, but the neo-cons have everything under control. You will fight for greater Israel (or at least not obstruct their plans) or you will die. It is as simple as that.

Anonymous stats79 August 25, 2013 7:02 PM  

As our elected government drags us into another war for greater Israel, I've finally come to understand a little bit about Hitler's mentality . As a young man I believed Hitler was a satanic monster. 12 years into the neo-con war on terror, I've got a bit more sympathy for that particular devil.

Anonymous Godfrey August 25, 2013 7:15 PM  

@Titus Didius Tacitus August 25, 2013 5:25 PM
Rantor: "But this is a good war cause we're supporting al Qaeda this time. Not like Bush who was fighting AQ, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Taliban."

"While continuing to praise Islam and support Muslim immigration into America and other white countries."



And let's not forget Bush II's role in eliminated Christianity in Iraq. Oh, and the role his evil father had in selling-out the Christians in Lebanon. The Bush family is the spawn of Satan.

Anonymous Godfrey August 25, 2013 7:21 PM  

@stats79 August 25, 2013 7:02 PM
"As our elected government drags us into another war for greater Israel, I've finally come to understand a little bit about Hitler's mentality."



I can understand where you're coming from. In my worst moments, when I'm angry at that certain group, I always try to remember that there are good members like Von Mises and Rothbard.

Anonymous Matthew August 25, 2013 8:10 PM  

stats79, you should try Stolfi's meta-biography of Hitler. He's primarily concerned with the way previous biographers have treated the subject.

Anonymous stats79 August 25, 2013 8:18 PM  

There is a link on Drudge Report to the story on the ABC News website with a WH official saying there is very little doubt Assad behind Chemical attack. You can trash Obama in the comments. You can trash Bush. You can trash international bankers. But if you say anything, and I mean anything negative about Israel, you are banned and the comment is deleted. Ain't that interesting. We will never have an honest discussion about our policy in the Middle East if we can't even discuss one of the most prominent players in the mess. We are doomed. I'm moving to Italy with Vox.

Anonymous JI August 25, 2013 8:30 PM  

This sort of strategic and military contingency scenario building and analysis of alternative measures goes on all the time, for just about every place on earth. Don't read more into it than that.

Anonymous Curch Lady August 25, 2013 8:44 PM  

JI August 25, 2013 8:30 PM

This sort of strategic and military contingency scenario building and analysis of alternative measures goes on all the time, for just about every place on earth. Don't read more into it than that.


My, how convenient. Who thought of that system.....SATAN?

If it is all gamed, then it is meaningless to try to say this is just a normal game instead of a particular game.

In other words, your objection is meaningless, and therefore, useless.

Blogger Jordan179 August 25, 2013 8:48 PM  

stats79 said:

Elect a new "President" if you will, but the neo-cons have everything under control. You will fight for greater Israel (or at least not obstruct their plans) or you will die. It is as simple as that.

How exactly do the "neo-cons have everything under control" when they've been replaced in all the key offices by Obama loyalists? How do they dictate to the President, whose voice is the one the armed forces and security services actually listen? And how exactly does Israel, smaller and weaker than the United States of America, get to tell us what to do upon pain of death?

The more economical explanation for Obama's actions is that either he is an Islamist, or so convinced that he must support "democratic forces" even when they are actually Islamist ones, that he has totally lost sight of the interests both of America and of the majority of people in the Mideast.

Oh, and another flaw in your theory: Islamist victories in Libya (might still happen), Egypt (nearly happens) and Syria (quite likely to happen, especially if we topple Assad) would be very much against Israeli interests, as they would embroil Israel in a multi-front war.

Blogger Jordan179 August 25, 2013 8:52 PM  

When I heard about this (alleged) chemical weapon strike I thought ''if it were a missile where could it have come from?''. During the Gulf War the analyses generally was ''a chemical weapon warhead is not particularly effective'' concerning the scuds that Iraq was launching both south and west. For various reasons such as dispersal the lethality was limited to the immediate area of impact.

So where could our 'missile' have come from?


Syria itself, most likely. We already know Assad has chemical weapons and considerable SRBM forces. Also, if it came from anywhere else, Assad's radars would have tracked it coming in, and he would have complained publicly that someone else had launched the attack.

Mind you, that doesn't mean that there really was an attack. The "casualties" shown so far seem suspiciously neat and tidy: real chemical weapons attacks often cause blistering, blood congestion and involuntary elimination. These looked more like people sleeping, and sleeping peacefully at that.

Blogger Jordan179 August 25, 2013 8:54 PM  

While continuing to praise Islam and support Muslim immigration into America and other white countries.

Islam is a religion, not a race. North Arabs and Persians are essentially white (the South Arabs and North Africans have more intermixture with Sub-Saharan Negroes). Two of the worst Muslim immigrants into America, the Tsarnaev brothers, were Chechen, which means Caucasians in both the racial and geographic senses of the word.

Anonymous zen0 August 25, 2013 8:56 PM  

stats 79 :

Things are going as planned. Elect a new "President" if you will, but the neo-cons have everything under control. You will fight for greater Israel (or at least not obstruct their plans) or you will die. It is as simple as that.

Normally, I would mock knee-jerk anti-israeli rhetoric, but it disturbs me that Debka seems to be rabidly intent on pushing the Assad used chemicals story. Unlike anything I have seen before.

Be that as it may, the Alawites who are 12% of the population of Syria, who are in charge of the chemical weapons, are not traditionally married to Damascus. Damascus could be wiped out and they would not lose traditional territory.

Also , has anyone heard of the 10 Jubilee prophesy of Rabbi Judah Ben Samuel?

Pretty freaky.

2017, bitchez

Anonymous jack August 25, 2013 8:59 PM  

Its not a war for 'greater Israel' as mentioned somewhere above. It is an obvious use of the US military, influence, and treasure to promote the new caliphate. Obama should have been impeached long ago for any number of crimes. This ongoing use of our forces to aid the islamic caliphate is beyond the pale.

Anonymous Roundtine August 25, 2013 9:12 PM  

Obama has gone full retard.

Anonymous zen0 August 25, 2013 9:37 PM  

Obama has gone full retard.

Perfect POTUS for America, then.

Anonymous LES August 25, 2013 9:49 PM  

jack: "This ongoing use of our forces to aid the islamic caliphate is beyond the pale."

I guess we have to destroy the caliphate in order to save it.

Blogger Whiskey August 25, 2013 9:57 PM  

Stats79, ever hear of the Carter Doctrine? Of course not, for you history began yesterday. Bush's invasion of Iraq was entirely consistent with more than 60 years of US policy, starting with FDR in 1944 demanding US dominance in the Gulf, and denying any other hostile power a presence there.

Pretty much ALL US policy since then, including overthrowing Mossadegh, bombing Iraq, invading Iraq, aiding Saddam against Iran, and so forth stems from that single policy which is aimed at world control of the oil price, more or less, to the US advantage (that is, cheap oil).

Iran, Saddam, and Russia / the USSR all want(ed) high oil prices as inefficient producers with a large thug army and patronage regime.

Sharon and other Israeli leaders wanted Saddam in place as a cheap-enough check on their main enemy, Iran. Bush felt his father's defeat was because he did not remove Saddam, when he could, and that getting rid of Saddam would give him another oil client state like the Saudis. Who were the main movers against Saddam sharing an actual border against him and fearing him greatly, not being willing to bet on the US continued will to enforce the Carter Doctrine (which merely spelled out FDR Presidents onward doctrine formally).

Probably a wise bet.

Obama is as typical, blundering into something because of his ego. His mouth wrote a check on Syrian gas attacks, and now he has to cash it. I can well believe, Assad feeling he is winning engaging in it feeling accurately, Obama is weak abroad and strong at home, facing at home no significant check on his powers or policy.

And this is a tragic miscalculation. Obama HAS no real check at home, to say no to War in Syria for ... what exactly? Putting AQ in charge? Obama's ego is involved, and given his weakness abroad he figures he can make Benghazi disappear (US Spec Ops have all been withdrawn there from the hunt for the killers of the Ambassador, the other diplomat, and the two CIA SEAL contractors). A victory over Assad no matter what the fruits is what Obama figures he needs for midterms.

Who will stop him? Chris Christie? Weeping Boehner?

Meanwhile Putin is likely to see this as an excellent opportunity to make Obama back down. By sinking a few US ships with Russian-supplied anti-ship missiles, just to see how they work and press Obama more. Iran is likely try and close the Persian Gulf in response, and maybe make moves to seize part of the Gulf islands and weak Emirates too. War with Russia and Iran could be looming.

Ironically the Israelis would probably prefer Assad win. He'd be weak, depending on Iran, but better likely than AQ winning because he'd need his troops to defend against internal enemies and would have none to spare against Israel. To Israel, Assad seems like a Franco rather than a Stalin or Hitler. [Recall that Franco, ostensibly a Hitler ally, refused to join the war or allow German troops to close the Med from Spanish territory or transit Spain. A Communist-run Spain would certainly have done so on Stalin's orders from 1939 to May 1941.]

Anonymous stats79 August 25, 2013 10:00 PM  

"Its not a war for 'greater Israel' as mentioned somewhere above. It is an obvious use of the US military, influence, and treasure to promote the new caliphate."

Idiot. Complete, idiot. This action will be supported by the Israeli Amen chorus here in the US. If you had the eyes to see, it would be obvious. All the usual suspects, AIPAC, McCain, Lindsey, Lieberman will support this action. Syria has been on the hit list since Project for a New American Century papers outlined what Israel and her puppet the US would be doing to change the face of the Middle East. New Caliphate?! Moron.

Anonymous Kaz August 25, 2013 10:08 PM  

I find the StratFor email perplexing. Why the emphasis of Cyprus as a main base when the U.S. Sixth Fleet patrols the Med and the U.S. Fifth Fleet, with two nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, patrols the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea.

Kaz

Anonymous stats79 August 25, 2013 10:09 PM  

Oh, and another flaw in your theory: Islamist victories in Libya (might still happen), Egypt (nearly happens) and Syria (quite likely to happen, especially if we topple Assad) would be very much against Israeli interests, as they would embroil Israel in a multi-front war.

You blithering idiots. The neo-cons have been writing about this since the early 90s. Syria was always on the hit list. Then on to Tehran. The neo-cons are still firmly in charge. Not going to go through the list again, but in all key positions in the administration are Jews/Neo-cons. This is a stupid argument. If it is not obvious to you now that Israel is wagging the dog, then you will never understand.

Israel policy has always been to divide up Middle East into relatively powerless, ethnic enclaves that will be easily distracted by internecine conflict. (Juiced by Israeli provocateurs, of course).

Blogger Whiskey August 25, 2013 10:11 PM  

Let me add, Stats79 is typical of the Paulian idiots who want nice things but not the sacrifice that is require for them. Basically cargo-cult mentality.

US prosperity rests on military dominance, particularly of oil in the Persian Gulf. That dominance in turn rests on being able and willing to kill people, bluntly, to protect our interests. Which again is control of the planet's key oil producing region, the one that produces oil most cheaply and has the largest reserves that have the lowest production price.

That means in turn that being able to afford a private car, for most people, with gas below $20 or even $40 a gallon requires lots and lots of military people, equipment, and the willingness to periodically go to war to protect our dominance in the Persian Gulf. Just like being fit requires both diet and exercise.

Look at Italy. Its destiny is to be over-run with Egyptians, it is now crawling with them with thousands arriving every week, soon to be every day. Italy's destiny is to be filled with militant, dirt poor, polygamous, cousin marrying Muslims who will destroy everything that the prior (soon to be wiped out) Italians produced. And Italians can do nothing about it because they don't have men under arms, or ships, or planes.

Italy is a doomed nation. Doomed to be destroyed. Because it is unarmed and very near Egypt and other North African hellholes.

Meanwhile securing America's interests means propping up people we don't like (the House of Saud and the Magic Kingdom) because the alternative will be worse (the Brothers, AQ, Iran) and not beholden to US power. It also means supporting Israel the same reason US forces supported Britain in WWI and WWII, as an unsinkable aircraft carrier able to provide useful if limited service in its own defense.

Israel will always be a small, very limited nation that will be eager for US aid and willing to many things for it, unlike Turkey which has proved unreliable as a big nation with its own ambitions regarding a Turkic-language commercial empire and sphere of influence and ambitions in Kurdish Iraq (Oil!)

Israel shares (some) of its intel on hostile nations, has available convenient and in short-supply real estate, a good air force, a middling army, and a poor navy but one that nevertheless exists. [Israel's second rate navy was exposed during the latest Lebanon/Hezbollah war when Hezbollah all but destroyed a corvette using anti-ship missiles.]

Who else is there to ally to in promoting US interests in cheap global oil (at least under $150 a barrel).

Superman, Green Lantern, and the rest of the Justice League are imaginary characters. So too are the Mighty Avengers. Santa got shot down by Saddam in "Red Sleigh Down." So we are left with the possible.

Anonymous stats79 August 25, 2013 10:13 PM  

"To Israel, Assad seems like a Franco rather than a Stalin or Hitler."

Who are you to read the minds of Israeli military and political leaders? Neo-cons close to Netanyahyu have been writing about this scenario for 2 decades. You come along and read their minds for us? They already told us what they think. And they are currently bringing their thoughts to life. Moron.

Anonymous stats79 August 25, 2013 10:14 PM  

US prosperity rests on military dominance, particularly of oil in the Persian Gulf. That dominance in turn rests on being able and willing to kill people, bluntly, to protect our interests.

Wht th fck do you know about sacrifice, Nancy?

Anonymous Mike M. August 25, 2013 10:15 PM  

I don't give any credibility to a false flag operation, this has been on the radar screen for many months - ever since this whole affair in Syria started.

What bothers me is that the American military was pretty badly worn out in Iraq and Afghanistan. And now Obama wants us to fight ANOTHER war...for WHAT!?

I'm old enough to remember that craven idiot Jimmy Carter. Old enough to despise him. But damn it, HE had the foreign policy of his defense budget. Obama is leaving behind a track of wreckage that will take decades to repair.

Blogger The Ground Hog August 25, 2013 10:19 PM  

Centcom command in Jordan will be the base of operations. Jordanian troops under the direction of the US will take southern Syria up to Damascus. A no fly zone will be established. Assad will not be taken out, but he will be isolated. A new capital will be established near the rebel strong holds. All this will happen by the end of September.

Anonymous fish August 25, 2013 10:19 PM  

Kudos Whiskey....crazy here, crazy at Sailers. and carazy every where!

Blogger njartist August 25, 2013 10:21 PM  

@stats79 August 25, 2013 8:18 PM
Stop using the term "Jew" and start naming who they actually are: Ashkenazi, Khazars, and Edomites; the Ashkenazi are the dominant group and form the elites. These people are hiding behind the deception that by calling themselves Jews the Gentiles would associate them with the original tribes of Israel: the Jews are no such thing: only 5-15% of Jewry is actually Israelite.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 25, 2013 10:21 PM  

Counting down

I wonder what weasel words will be uttered.

Anonymous stats79 August 25, 2013 10:23 PM  

Whiskey, arm-chair strategist, you are full of shit. We've only been dependent on Middle East oil for the last 40 some odd years. Our involvement before was related more to cold war concerns than oil. We had plenty of oil up until the 70s. As for our far sighted over-lords in Washington watching out for us in the Middle East, bunkem. Washington politicians don't have the foresight to come in out of the rain. We are in the Middle East at the behest of the Israelis and their supporters in the US. It is that simple. There is no grand, American strategy for the Middle East. There is no one in Washington with that kind of foresight, intelligence or power.

The real power in the US is jewish, used to be WASP, but ain't no more. And the jews know what they want.

Anonymous zen0 August 25, 2013 10:25 PM  

Whiskey ponts out:

Ironically the Israelis would probably prefer Assad win. He'd be weak, depending on Iran, but better likely than AQ winning because he'd need his troops to defend against internal enemies and would have none to spare against Israel. T

Not only that, if the rebels win, they may take over the chemical weapons to use against Israel.

If Assad used them he knows he gets nuked. If bands of terrorists use them, who do you nuke?

Anonymous stats79 August 25, 2013 10:33 PM  

Not only that, if the rebels win, they may take over the chemical weapons to use against Israel.

If Assad used them he knows he gets nuked. If bands of terrorists use them, who do you nuke?


It doesn't matter how insane this may seem to you guys, but Israel and neo-cons in the US have been telegraphing for years what their plans are. And toppling Assad and destroying Syria has always been part of the plan. Hell, they wrote it down in black & white in any number of papers in the 90s. You're apologist for their insane plans, but you've never bothered to even read what their plans are! Idiots.

Blogger Markku August 25, 2013 10:33 PM  

Obviously you shout "Samson option!" and nuke everyone.

Anonymous Kaz August 25, 2013 10:44 PM  

AH! The "Samson Option", the last gasp of the psychopathic megalomaniac.

Kaz

Anonymous cheddarman August 25, 2013 10:45 PM  

Qui bono?

The U.S. benefits if the Assad regime gets overthrown. It strenghtens the petrodollar, since the gas and oil pipelines to europe can be routed through syria, and turkey, and the contents have to be paid for with U.S. dollars.

It also weakens Russia. The Russian oligarchy would be severely weakend and could go down if Assad falls since the russian economy takes a huge hit.

The stakes are high, I think the Russians are willing to be as ruthless as needed to keep their man Assad in power.

I dont think Obama has the stones to go head to head with Putin over Syria. The bankers may have to wait until 2017 to get their man Hillary to send in the ground troops.


Anonymous Dan in Tx August 25, 2013 10:48 PM  

Al Qaeda, now there's a really odd outfit. I mean an absolutely ruthless, extreme Islamic organization that supposedly pulled off the greatest terrorist attack in the history of the world, that somehow, for some reason never ever attacks Israel.....oh sorry just thinking out loud.

Anonymous Anonymous August 25, 2013 10:53 PM  

What I'm getting from this thread:

Nobody has a damn clue. And this is probably just as true of the higher-ups as it is for us.

Anonymous stats79 August 25, 2013 10:53 PM  

The U.S. benefits if the Assad regime gets overthrown. It strenghtens the petrodollar, since the gas and oil pipelines to europe can be routed through syria, and turkey, and the contents have to be paid for with U.S. dollars.

Petro dollar? My ass. US politicians don't give a shit about the petro dollar. Neo-cons were talking about Assad and Syria long before there was a concern about the "petro dollar". You people will dream up any number of conspiracies just so long as you don't have to lay the blame for this damn foolishness where it obviously belongs.

Anonymous zen0 August 25, 2013 10:54 PM  

Markku August 25, 2013 10:33 PM

Obviously you shout "Samson option!" and nuke everyone.


That's more of an option for a terminal existential threat. Much like the Mutally Assured Destruction doctrines of the Cold War. Chemical attacks, however, depending on the extent, can justify tactical nuke strikes.

In other words, I don't think Finland is a target.

Depending on how Finland comports itself, of course.

Anonymous zen0 August 25, 2013 10:57 PM  

What I'm getting from this thread:

Nobody has a damn clue. And this is probably just as true of the higher-ups as it is for us.


Oh, there are plenty of clues, but it is as if some power above the players in the conflict is directing the flow of play, and the players just carry out the plan.

Blogger Markku August 25, 2013 11:00 PM  

Depending on how Finland comports itself, of course.

"Sure, president Gog - I mean Putin, of course we will."

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist August 25, 2013 11:18 PM  

Cueing salacious reports of Viagra-fueled rape rooms in three... two...

Anonymous The other skeptic August 25, 2013 11:20 PM  

But, but, NCIS assures us that Israel is our friend.

Blogger AdognamedOp August 25, 2013 11:30 PM  

I wonder how the Snowden affair plays into all this. Could this be payback- Putin takes our guy so now we're going to take out one of his? Or is it simply the next step in the bigger agenda?
IDK, I just watched "Three Days of the Condor" so I'm all conspiracied up..heheh.
It's a great movie btw. Made in 1975 but speaks to modern day issues and the CIA HQ is located in WTC!
Condor as Snowden? Hmm.
Check it out, if you haven't already.

Anonymous geoff August 25, 2013 11:32 PM  

cheddarman mailed it

Anonymous geoff August 25, 2013 11:34 PM  

nailed. damn i miss my blackberry keyboard

Anonymous Anonymous August 25, 2013 11:45 PM  

"Oh, there are plenty of clues, but it is as if some power above the players in the conflict is directing the flow of play, and the players just carry out the plan."

A plan that none of us REALLY seem to know - not that we don't all have our own opinions...

Blogger Laramie Hirsch August 25, 2013 11:46 PM  

This all makes me feel sick.

Anonymous stats79 August 25, 2013 11:55 PM  

"This all makes me feel sick"

Wow, that's interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Anonymous LES August 26, 2013 12:02 AM  

whiskey: “Sharon and other Israeli leaders wanted Saddam in place as a cheap-enough check on their main enemy, Iran.”

“Ironically the Israelis would probably prefer Assad win.”

jewish virtual library:
The most unlikely country to support Iran was Israel, given that the revolutionary government had replaced the country's longstanding alliance with an obsessive and hostile Anti-Zionism. Still, the Israelis did provide some arms to their Iranian enemies. Why?
Two main reasons:
• One is that Israel often subscribes to the Middle East dictum, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," and Iraq was viewed as a more immediate danger.
• A large number of Jews remained in Iran, and the Israelis hoped to essentially buy their safety while covert and not-so-covert efforts were undertaken throughout the war to get Iranian Jews out of the country.

From Le Figaro, google translated:
According to our information, the (Syrian) regime's opponents, supervised by Jordanian, Israeli and American commandos moving towards Damascus since mid-August.
 
According to information obtained by Le Figaro , the first trained in guerrilla warfare by the Americans in Jordan Syrian troops reportedly entered into action since mid-August in southern Syria, in the region of Deraa. A first group of 300 men, probably supported by Israeli and Jordanian commandos, as well as men of the CIA, had crossed the border on August 17. A second would have joined the 19. According to military sources, the Americans, who do not want to put troops on the Syrian soil or arming rebels in part controlled by radical Islamists form quietly for several months in a training camp set up at the border Jordanian- Syrian fighters ASL, the Free Syrian Army, handpicked.

Anonymous allyn71 August 26, 2013 12:07 AM  

"The U.S. benefits if the Assad regime gets overthrown. It strenghtens the petrodollar, since the gas and oil pipelines to europe can be routed through syria, and turkey, and the contents have to be paid for with U.S. dollars.

It also weakens Russia. The Russian oligarchy would be severely weakend and could go down if Assad falls since the russian economy takes a huge hit." - cheddarman August 25, 2013 10:45 PM

This is it, the House of Saud wants the pipeline and has told the US that the petrodollar depends on it. The US isn't in a position to say "No" with the moves that Russia and China have been making against the dollar internationally.

The Sunni Saudi's want to stop the expansionist plans of the Shia Iran. The US is being sucked into the Islamic version of the Thirty Years War. On the Saudi side is the US and EU, on the Iranian side is Russia and Hezbollah. What could go wrong?

Anonymous DonReynolds August 26, 2013 12:34 AM  

Whiskey....."Obama is as typical, blundering into something because of his ego. His mouth wrote a check on Syrian gas attacks, and now he has to cash it."

I see it slightly differently. He basically told the world that someone needs to use chemical weapons as sufficient provocation for US intervention. Then he waited a year....until someone finally got the idea, that he actually WANTED a little gas attack as an excuse to intervene militarily. It was not enough to openly arm the Al Qeda "rebels", which is seriously an act of war. Based a ton of military assets in Jordan, which is a direct threat.

Why did he pick poison gas as the tripwire? I have no earthly idea. Much better than being burned alive or being riddled with little bits of jacketed metal or being cut up with knives. Drowning is too much work, especially in the desert. My best guess is..... chemical weapons are a good excuse because nobody can tell for sure who set it off. Anyone can.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 26, 2013 1:01 AM  

Whiskey....."That means in turn that being able to afford a private car, for most people, with gas below $20 or even $40 a gallon requires lots and lots of military people, equipment, and the willingness to periodically go to war to protect our dominance in the Persian Gulf."

Once again, I gently disagree. Venezuela does not go to war over oil and they have a puny military. The last I heard, gasoline costs twelve CENTS a gallon there. Mexico does not go to war either over oil. Yeah, gas is cheap there too.

Anonymous YIH August 26, 2013 1:09 AM  

Hey Whiskey, here's an idea: Let's dump the contents of Detroit into Syria. If we're going to play these games at least let's get some benefit for actual Americans for a change!
You DO know that America has plenty of problems of it's own right?.
The third link might help you to understand why Americans are starting to refuse to say ''How high?'' whenever Israel and it's lobbyists say ''Jump!''

Anonymous DonReynolds August 26, 2013 1:33 AM  

Syria has not attacked the USA or any of its allies, nor do they constitute a threat to any country during the present civil war.

Syria is not a major oil exporting country nor is there anything in that country that would be considered strategic materials or vital interests of the USA or any of its allies.

So in response to the deaths of a few hundred persons during a civil war, we are preparing to kill what is likely to be thousands (or tens of thousands) of these same persons by air and missile attack.

The position of the USA until recently was that there would be no hostilities against Syria without a United Nations resolution authorizing the use of military force. That resolution is not forthcoming, so the USA is attacking anyway without delay. (How about an authorization from the US Congress on the use of force against Syria?)

Obama is a madman.

Anonymous stats79 August 26, 2013 1:33 AM  

Whisky said: US prosperity rests on military dominance, particularly of oil in the Persian Gulf. That dominance in turn rests on being able and willing to kill people, bluntly, to protect our interests. Which again is control of the planet's key oil producing region, the one that produces oil most cheaply and has the largest reserves that have the lowest production price.

You are truly a 'tard, or some sort of agent for Israel. Before the US started our little misadventure in the Middle East in 2003, oil was going for $20 barrel. Today it is close to $110 a barrel. Our "willingness" to kill people in the Middle East seems to have only increased the price of oil. Protecting our interest? Don't think so, Whiskey.

Do you just pull this bullshit out of your ass, or do you get talking points for Benjamin Netanyahu? And does the crap actually convince anyone?

Take a hike, scumbag.

Anonymous Credo in Unum Deum August 26, 2013 2:01 AM  

Here's an original idea:

Why don't we just stay the hell out of that area where we have no strategic need to be in militarily, sit back, and while these groups of Muslims slaughter each other, we stay at home, play video games and watch bad fantasy TV series on HBO?

Muslims viciously killing one another is something all of Christendom can get behind. Better them shooting at one another than at Christians.

I also would have no problem with giving amnesty to any and all Christians in the region though.

Blogger Markku August 26, 2013 2:41 AM  

Who is Benjamin Nathan Yahoo?

Anonymous stats79 August 26, 2013 2:58 AM  

Who is Benjamin Nathan Yahoo?

Current ruler of Israel and the United States. I guess you didn't get the memo.

Blogger Markku August 26, 2013 3:00 AM  

Naah, can't be. I went to university, you know.

Who is Benjamin Yahoo?

Who is Benjamin Yahoo?

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus August 26, 2013 3:53 AM  

stats79: "Current ruler of Israel and the United States. I guess you didn't get the memo."

Washington, May 24th, 2011: 29 standing ovations from Congress, and sundry expressions of general sycophancy, while chastising the President of the United States of America.

Obviously Congress thought that was appropriate. The American President had gotten above himself in talking back, and it was time his superior smacked him down, so they applauded it. (And the mass media of both the "right" and the "left" agreed.)

The American President at that time was the Lightworker, the Nobel Peace Prize winning, two-time Grammy Award winning etc. Black Messiah! His social status and prestige could hardly have been any higher, except that it was far below that of an Israeli leader.

Since this is the publicly celebrated pecking order, people who continue to deny that there is a Zionist hegemony don't deserve an assumption that they are speaking in good faith and simply didn't happen to notice what is going on.

President Obama spent decades in Jeremiah Wright's anti-white hate church and never heard anything he thought was unacceptable. The preacher who delivered Obama's Presidential Inauguration benediction, African-American civil rights advocate Rev. Joseph Lowery, drifts back and forth in his views, sometimes declaring that all white people go to Hell, sometimes only saying that most of them do. The establishment is anti-white; that's a political and social reality.

But even above its anti-whiteness, it's Zionist.

Throwing away the lives of white Americans, bleeding white America for taxes to pay for wars on Israel's neighbors, and lying to white people is no problem for this establishment.

Non-white mass immigration into all white countries and only white countries plus forced integration is white genocide. It means white people aren't just being robbed, lied to and bled; they're being done away with.

That's not a problem for this establishment either.

The ruling class in America and other historically white countries influenced by America doesn't deserve loyalty and deference.

Nor does it deserve an assumption that if it's pushing for a war there must be a good reason for that war, even if the public rationale doesn't add up.

Blogger Markku August 26, 2013 4:19 AM  

(A reminder for those who don't know Benjamin Yahoo)

Anonymous zen0 August 26, 2013 4:28 AM  

malcomthecyncic decries discussion:

A plan that none of us REALLY seem to know - not that we don't all have our own opinions...

There are opinions, and informed opinions. Rabbi Judah Ben Samuel's, for one.

Anonymous Johnycomelately August 26, 2013 5:00 AM  

There's a bigger picture than Syria, the powers that be want a Middle East Union.

Who would have thought Afganistan would be buying Indian weapons?

We're on track for creating 10 regional goverments:
EU, CIS, Mediterranean Union, African Union, South Asian Union, China Japan and Korea free trade agreement, ASEAN, NAFTA, SAFTA and the Middle EAst Union.

Blogger Jamie-R August 26, 2013 7:33 AM  

Vox.... Look at the map of Syria and it's easy to see how the arms supplied by Americans help the rebels, arms go through Turkey and Iraq, so the rebels control the centre of the country. Damascus is the stronghold of Assad. He owns the coast, enough of Lebanon, and the Russians help him. If Damascus has enemies in its backyard they will be taken care of first, with a strong warning. Assad can't afford to lose Damascus, obviously! And Putin doesn't believe Obama has the balls to do anything, note Polish government assassination, Snowden's asylum orchestrated to embarrass Obama's perceived power, and Germany's tilt back to a Russian axis in questioning America's intentions.

His foreign policy is an embarrassment, no need to help some sort of conspiracy to make it look better. Chicago mob politics doesn't work outside of America. There's plenty more better than them overseas because they work with a lot less civilisation.

Anonymous geoff August 26, 2013 7:35 AM  

just because whiskey disagrees with u as to who pulls the strings in us govt on this issue (he and i believe its hyper wealthy and saudis, u think its da juice), cant u see he and i agree theres no u.s. onterest in going to war?

we're on same "dont get involved" side. chill dude

Anonymous Herman the German August 26, 2013 8:29 AM  

Njartist said:

Stop using the term "Jew" and start naming who they actually are: Ashkenazi, Khazars, and Edomites; the Ashkenazi are the dominant group and form the elites. These people are hiding behind the deception that by calling themselves Jews the Gentiles would associate them with the original tribes of Israel: the Jews are no such thing: only 5-15% of Jewry is actually Israelite.

THIS. The distinction is never pointed out often enough, Sir.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus August 26, 2013 8:34 AM  

IDF intercept shows Syrian army used chemical weapons...

Anonymous cheddarman August 26, 2013 8:41 AM  

Petro dollar? My ass. US politicians don't give a shit about the petro dollar. - stats79

U.S. politicians care about the petrodollar, as it allows us to export our inflation throughout the world to all holders of U.S. dollars. It also helps us finance our 1 trillion dollar annual deficits.

Anonymous ck August 26, 2013 9:01 AM  

"This would entail a countrywide SEAD campaign lasting the duration of the war."

This looks like a credible email from the LTCol. level. Few people outside certain combat circles in the military even know what SEAD is. SEAD is a military acronym for supression of enemy air defense, which can be complex, when doing it on such a wide scale.

Anonymous Mike M. August 26, 2013 10:21 AM  

I see us as having two options.

Option 1 is the Nice Option. Take Obama, put him on an airplane, and drop him on the Syrians.

Option 2 is the Nasty Option. Do Option 1...but give Obama a parachute.

Anonymous patrick kelly August 26, 2013 11:21 AM  

@cman: "I dont think Obama has the stones to go head to head with Putin over Syria."

We can only hope. The ties between Moscow and Damascus are older than the US has been a nation and as deep, if not deeper, than between the US and UK.

Russian if pushed hard enough would go all Samson on the world's ass if pushed hard enough on Syria. Are you ready to glow for Al Queda? Moscow to Damascus is comparable to D.C. to Havana. We're in their backyard over there.

Anonymous VanDerMerwe August 27, 2013 9:08 AM  

"We can only hope. The ties between Moscow and Damascus are older than the US has been a nation and as deep, if not deeper, than between the US and UK."

But not as old or as deep as between Russia and Serbia and look how much that helped the Serbs.

Blogger The Anti-Gnostic August 27, 2013 10:16 AM  

That means in turn that being able to afford a private car, for most people, with gas below $20 or even $40 a gallon requires lots and lots of military people, equipment, and the willingness to periodically go to war to protect our dominance in the Persian Gulf."

Then that oil ain't really "cheap," dumbass.

Anonymous stats79 August 27, 2013 9:37 PM  

"U.S. politicians care about the petrodollar, as it allows us to export our inflation throughout the world to all holders of U.S. dollars. It also helps us finance our 1 trillion dollar annual deficits."

Petro dollar is just smoke. The same people pushing for war in Syria are the same people who have been pushing for war in the Middle East since the early 90s. This was long before the Euro or the rise of the Chinese. The real movers and shakers for war don't give a damn about American financial health. Read what the Neo-cons at the Project for the New American Century were writing in the 90s. They layed out their game plan then and the US is following it slavishly.

Anonymous Measlomapaddycakes Fuckerbumpkin August 27, 2013 10:20 PM  

Gee, I wonder if it is possible to combine scifi with Israel. Do you think it is possible? Yes Sherlock, it most certainly is.

Mossad, Matrix and Mortgage: On States's Illegitimate Social Engineering

...“Foundation” translates into the Hebrew “Mossad;” that’s was the name adopted by the translators...

...“Hamossad Letafkidim Meyuhadim,” (The Foundation for Special Jobs) the infamous TERROR ORGANIZATION under the direct control of Israel’s Prime Minister...

...The original date of publication, 1951, is misleading, Foundation (the original first book, now the third one) is a collection of four stories, published between 1942 and 1944, plus an introductory section written in 1949. Thus, either Asimov possessed prophetic powers, or he was closely related to the Zionists and the “Mossad Lealiyah Beth,” the predecessor of the modern Mossad...


stats79 and Njartist, you are on the right track. However, you are still lukewarm. Maybe Roi Tov should become required reading in America. In due time, U.S. forces will be attacking and occupying Israel. Then, and only then, America will once again become the popular kid on the block...



--------
* Americans are generally quite naïve about Israel and how the Zionist state really functions. The general ignorance about Israel is primarily due to the fact that most people are woefully misinformed about the Middle East having grown up consuming news and entertainment products provided by Hollywood and the Zionist-controlled media. This has resulted in a very significant part of the American population suffering from an extremely distorted point-of-view. Prior to 9/11 this may not have been a matter of great concern, but with the U.S. involved in at least two long-term wars in the Middle East, Americans can no longer afford to be blissfully ignorant about the Zionist state of Israel and its criminal network that are the root of the conflict in the region.

The Cross of Bethlehem is a remarkable book about Israel, written by an intelligent Israeli dissident who converted to Christianity and writes under the name Ro’i (Roy) Tov. Having had a career at Israel’s highest scientific institution and having served in top-secret military units provided Tov with unique insights. These experiences, however, made Tov a marked man when he tried to leave Israel and write a critical book about the Zionist state. When Tov refused to return to Israel, the Mossad targeted him for assassination.

Anonymous MPC FBK August 27, 2013 10:46 PM  

Now, so far as these -- Jews:

As for Jesuits and Jews (I use the proper noun to err on the side of political correctness), the main principle is that neither subscribes to the Jesus of Scripture, and both are subservient to Rome. The declaration “We have no king but Caesar” is observably as binding today as it was when the priests and the pharisees uttered it during Christ’s trial.

To those who insist that Jews run the world, I say okay, but only by the PERMISSION and APPOINTMENT of ROME.

According to Manfred Barthel, whose book on the Jesuits was submitted to several Jesuits for approval, “the Order has always had a reputation as a refuge for Jewish converts.” The second General of the Order, Diego Laynez, made clear in his autobiography that his family were prominent “New Christians,” as Jewish converts in Spain and Portugal were called.

By the end of the 17th century, the Jesuits were suffering accusations of defiling Christian doctrine and morality with their “rabbinical-pharisaical mentality” and “subtle Talmudic incantations.”

In 1814, however, the Jesuits turned anti-semitic. I believe this was in order to mask their collusion with the money power operated by the House of Rothschild, “guardian of the Vatican Treasury.”

Still, behind the convenient facade of antisemitism, as Bismarck wrote (quoting Kaiser Wilhelm I), “the Jews and the Jesuits always flock together.” I think after reading RULERS OF EVIL you’ll understand how the Jesuits can simultaneously embrace, discredit, frame, and annihilate the Jews.

The Jesuits are, after all, an army run by a General [1] who can do anything to anyone under Rome’s jurisdiction in order to preserve the Roman State, which is evidently the New World Order.

-- F. Tupper Saussy, February 11, 2000

So, once again. Who is the current pope in Rome? And, what is he? When was the last time such as his background (and training) has been appointed by the College of Cardinals? Oh, and what "money-power/family created the present State of Israel?

I rest my case...



---------
[1] “From this room, Your Grace, I govern not only Paris, but China; not only China, but the whole world –and all without anyone knowing how it is done.” – Society of Jesus Superior General Tambourini to the Duke de Brissac, Constitutions of the Jesuits, edited by Paulin, Paris (1843)

Did he say -- China?

Anonymous Joe Jew August 28, 2013 12:20 AM  

"In due time, U.S. forces will be attacking and occupying Israel."

HA!

Go directly to משטרה צבאית בתי הסוהר‎). Do NOT pass "GO". Do NOT Collect $200 Shekels.

Anonymous Punch-Drunk Love August 28, 2013 3:13 AM  

Pretty lame..

That's it? No direct threats or assassination orders from

? שירות הביטחון הכללי

Anonymous Joe Jew August 28, 2013 5:54 PM  

Dude, the only thing lame is you tacitly endorsing the claim that the United States will be invading Israel.

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