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Friday, August 23, 2013

Vet killed by Vibrant America

What presently passes for the USA is observably no longer the nation for which Mr. Belton fought:
WWII veteran Delbert Belton survived being wounded in action during the Battle of Okinawa only to be beaten and left for dead by two teens at the Eagles Lodge in Spokane on Wednesday evening. Belton, 88, succumbed to his injuries Thursday morning at Sacred Heart Medical Center.

Witnesses say Belton was in the parking lot of the Eagles Lodge at 6410 N. Lidgerwood, adjacent to the Eagles Ice-A-Rena, around 8 p.m. Wednesday when the two male suspects attacked him as he was about to head inside to play pool.

Spokane police are looking for two male suspects in the attack. They said the suspects are African Americans between 16 and 19 years old. One suspect was described as heavy set and wearing all black clothing. The other was described as being about 6 feet tall and 150 pounds.
It increasingly appears as if the two choices facing America are peaceful segregation or ethnic violence and civil war.  Contra the expectations of the multicultis and the anti-racists, the vibrant community is becoming less civilized as they become more numerous.  The civil rights vision has failed and appeasement clearly works no better with vibrants than it did with Nazis.

Those who babble interminably about racism and equality are no more relevant to the practical discussion of what should be done than the disarmament activists were after the invasion of Czechoslovakia.  Let reason be silent when experience gainsays its conclusions. No one needs to understand what inspires young vibrants to commit these acts of unprovoked and murderous violence in order to render it impossible for them to do so in the future.

The only real question is how much of this violence white, Hispanic, and Asian Americans are willing to tolerate before they finally put an end to it. It is observably worse than it was in 2009, when it was reported "Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against whites then vice versa.... Forty-five percent of black crime is against whites, 43 against other blacks, and 10 percent against Hispanic."

Is it possible that I am wrong and contra both my observations and historical patterns that can be observed throughout the entire written record of Man, the USA is not going to be riven by ethnic strife, but is instead on the verge of transforming itself into a glorious and peaceful multi-ethnic utopia?  Theoretically, I suppose.  But the probabilities of such an outcome are not high.

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235 Comments:

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Anonymous Roundtine August 23, 2013 6:41 AM  

I noticed Drudge is now running with this theme. A lot of these stories used to end up in the alt-right ghetto, now they're being pushed mainstream. Still, the rising body count isn't enough to come close to Saint Trayvon.

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 6:47 AM  

What I suspect will happen, sooner or later, is that the wrong white girl will be killed and her father and/or brothers will go Zombie Apocalypse on every vibrant he/they can find.

It's potentially significant that most of the young whites who have been killed to date not only don't have vengeful parents, but have parents who are morons of the "how could this ever possibly have happened to anyone" school.

Anonymous Sigyn August 23, 2013 6:53 AM  

Putting you down for a "Death Wish" prediction. *grin*

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 6:59 AM  

Putting you down for a "Death Wish" prediction.

If it happens, and I see no reason to believe that it won't, the responsibility will lie with the desegregationists, the anti-racists, and the equalitarians who set the stage for it. They all said that forced desegragation would improve racial relations and bring about a better society. They were either deluded and spectacularly wrong or they lied.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein August 23, 2013 7:05 AM  


parents who are morons of the "how could this ever possibly have happened to anyone" school.


Rumor has it that they graduate fifty times the number of students as THE University of Phoenix and Webster University combined, on an annual basis.

Anonymous the abe August 23, 2013 7:05 AM  

"No one needs to understand what inspires young vibrants to commit these acts of unprovoked and murderous violence in order to render it impossible for them to do so in the future."

A poor gnostic ye make, Signor Day. "Evil" after all, is merely the misunderstanding and/or ignorance of goodness, thus can be educated/indoctrinated/conditioned away.

At least my otherwise reasonably mid-witted agnostic and atheist friends tell me.

Anonymous fnn August 23, 2013 7:09 AM  

Mestizos, Asians and homos will have to lead the way since FEDGOV forbids any white self-organization that doesn't have explicitly cultural Marxist goals.

Anonymous Musashi August 23, 2013 7:11 AM  

I'd like to go back in time and strangle whoever first said: "Hey, let's bring these black savages to the New World"

Blogger Amy August 23, 2013 7:18 AM  

Vibrancy is a gift, Vox. A gift that keeps on giving to the oppressive White Monolith that controls America...yes, one of my FB friends used the term "White Monolith" when talking about the frustration blacks feel in our society, and while he personally deplored the attack, it was not a hate crime but one born of frustration at being black and held down.

No, he was not trolling me, I know this person too well to think he'd troll me. Liberal atheist through and through.

Another cited restaurants/ethnic food as an example of why diversity (vibrancy) is good for us. I'm no superintelligence, but my mind is not quite so small to cite tacos as the reason why we should be murdered in the streets.

Anonymous ODG August 23, 2013 7:22 AM  

I do not understand the ethnic food argument. Nothing is stopping Americans from traveling overseas, finding a type of food they like, and opening a restaurant here. The food is largely Americanized anyway to suit our tastes.

Besides, how many SWPL go to soul food restaurants anyway?

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 7:24 AM  

Christianize them.

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 7:25 AM  

while he personally deplored the attack, it was not a hate crime but one born of frustration at being black and held down.

As I said, they are irrelevant. At a certain point, everyone loses interest in why it is raining and simply focuses on how to remain dry.

Anonymous realmatt August 23, 2013 7:27 AM  

They already think they're christian.

Anonymous Disgusted August 23, 2013 7:28 AM  

And let's not forget that half-savage Vibrant American Antoinette Tuff, who talked down a white school shooter and...oh wait.

Decided not to cherry-pick that particular story, eh Vox?

Blogger Amy August 23, 2013 7:32 AM  

ODG, the ethnic food argument smacks of very shallow and vapid thinking. Yes, some ethnic food is very tasty and when it's done right, as in authentic, you can really gain an appreciation for a cuisine. But you don't really get culture from food; food is one large aspect of a culture, but not the tell-all of the people behind it.

One could travel overseas to experience ethnic food, but that means they would have to experience the culture as well. I pointed this out to a relative once. "P" was going on and on about how awesome Indian food was (I don't particularly like it but TEHO). I asked P if a trip to India was in store. P's response: "Oh, I'd love to, when I have the money to do it right." What does that mean? P: "you know, to be able to stay in hotels and have a tour guide. Traveling alone in some countries is really dangerous."

So, they know. Just can't admit it to themselves or see the glaring contradictions in their twisted logic.

I used to do such mental gymnastics. I went liberal for about two years, almost the same amount of time I was at Uni full-time, living in a dorm two blocks from where vibrants raped a few co-eds and where robbery was a regular occurrence. Then I got a job and went to school part-time. Oh, how rapidly the shift in attitude happened.

Anonymous Idle Cesium-137 August 23, 2013 7:35 AM  

Tying vibrancy to the vibrant radioisotopes coming out of Fukushima...

Can you imagine them operating nuclear power reactors in Africa? They only have three on the continent, all in South Africa; two near Cape Town the other near Pretoria.

I keep thinking Idiocracy. "We have a reactor leak! We need to put toilet water on it!"

Anonymous the abe August 23, 2013 7:35 AM  

"And let's not forget that half-savage Vibrant American Antoinette Tuff..."

Very impressive.

Can't imagine where Antionette would have gotten the considerable experience and practice necessary to stare down murderous gun-weilders without hesitation? Where would you find an environment that could foster this?

Oh wait...

Anonymous Sigyn August 23, 2013 7:37 AM  

Amy, someone used the "restaurants" argument at me in a discussion the other day. I mulled it over, and then asked: "So, what kind of food is it that inner-city blacks bring to the menu?"

His Lordship, who is without shame, answered me: "They cannot, but it is hardly their fault. One isn't allowed to use government cheese for commercial purposes."

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 7:37 AM  

Decided not to cherry-pick that particular story, eh Vox?

There is no need to cherry pick stories about vibrants attacking whites without provocation. There will be another one next week. And the week after that.

There are fully civilized black individuals just as there are fully savage ones. That's irrelevant. The point is that there is a tipping point past which the Detroit of yesteryear becomes the Detroit of today. Like it or not, the USA is past that point and the options become increasingly less peaceful and pleasant as time goes on.

You can pat yourself on the back for being fair-minded and equalitarian and good-thinking if you like. I won't stop you. And none of it will prevent Newark and Atlanta from going the way of Detroit and the situation getting worse.

Anonymous Heh August 23, 2013 7:37 AM  

I'd like to go back in time and strangle whoever first said: "Hey, let's bring these black savages to the New World"

They knew how to control them.

They would have laughed hysterically at the idea that vibrants should be allowed to vote, run wild, live among non-vibrants, and receive vast largesse from the state.

"Not our fault you guys are gutless and crazy."

Anonymous RP-in-TX August 23, 2013 7:39 AM  

Besides, how many SWPL go to soul food restaurants anyway.

Most "soul food" is just southern cuisine with a vibrant label. I've had friends visit from the west coast who were shocked to see white people eating collard greens and fried okra in their own homes.

Blogger Cinco August 23, 2013 7:43 AM  

@Disgusted

And let's not forget that half-savage Vibrant American Antoinette Tuff, who talked down a white school shooter and...oh wait.

Lol. Who is the one cherry-picking?

Most if not all people have an instinct for self preservation. I don't think Tuff did anything anyone else wouldn't have done in that situation.

Blogger Amy August 23, 2013 7:45 AM  

Sigyn, Loki would like Mr. C.

I've eaten soul food, homecooked by the mom of an old friend from grade school. Good stuff, but it's like the food my grandmother used to cook: greens with bits of meat or offal, noodles with some sort of sauce, braised tough cuts of meat, beans to fill out a meal. Her mom did it soul-food style, my grandma did it Polish style, but it all comes down to the same thing: poor people food, or as my uncle calls it, peasant food. Satisfying to the core and very special to me, but I wouldn't be willing to risk my money or my life on eating in a soul-food restaurant.

During black history month at the dining hall, soul food was on the menu. It was kind of disgusting, so much mac 'n cheese and deep fried everything. It's not the way poor people would really eat: how long would it take for a poor family to accumulate enough fat to deep fry chicken and corn bread on the daily?

Blogger Amy August 23, 2013 7:46 AM  

point being, what we think of as ethnic food of any type is, as ODG said, highly altered to appeal to American tastes or the "idea" of what the food is like, rather than authentic.

Oh, and I'm filing the gov't cheese line away for future use, if that's OK.

Anonymous Van August 23, 2013 7:46 AM  

Disgusted-

Ms. Tuff deserves credit for what she did; she saved the shooter's life. The first thing he said was he didn't want to hurt anyone, and he asked for the police and media to be called. He was going for suicide by cop, not mass homicide.

The media is twisting the story to create a hero. Timely, given other recent events.

Blogger Huggums August 23, 2013 7:51 AM  

Wish I knew what to do here. I'm completely in favor of anyone defending themselves from attack. Unfortunately, if mass killing starts it will be indiscriminate. This will vindicate the "reasoning" of the "we can be murdered with impunity" types. There doesn't seem to be any way around this. No good outcome is possible. Either you're the type of black person who participates in random beatings, murder, and destruction and your heart is already too hardened to listen or you aren't and you're too angry over the fact that you have to keep paying for the actions of people over whom you have no control. Only difference now is that now you might get murdered by an entire rainbow of people instead of just black people. Don't like where this is headed.

Anonymous Sigyn August 23, 2013 7:51 AM  

Amy, they had fried chicken for their black-history month menu? Did they also serve watermelon?

Anonymous Salt August 23, 2013 7:51 AM  

going Zombie Apocalypse -

"we have a new directive from M.A.F. on this. In the future, in place of "search and destroy," substitute the phrase "sweep and clear." Got it?" (Full Metal Jacket)

Blogger Amy August 23, 2013 7:54 AM  

Sigyn, yes. A big honest yes.

And black-eyed peas, collards, and corn bread.

As someone said, just Southern food with a negro label. Funny how raciss it is when it's not done in the context of Awesome Black Contributions to Society.

Anonymous Idle Spectator August 23, 2013 7:54 AM  

Only difference now is that now you might get murdered by an entire rainbow of people instead of just black people. Don't like where this is headed.

Skittles.

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 7:57 AM  

Only difference now is that now you might get murdered by an entire rainbow of people instead of just black people. Don't like where this is headed.

I don't either. And if either scenario comes to pass, it would be incredibly unfair to civilized individuals like you, Huggums. But when has life on this planet ever been fair?

I'm not celebrating these societal developments any more than I was celebrating the economic developments that pointed to the 2008 financial crisis. But I'm not going to simply pretend I can't see the patterns taking shape either so that no one will call me names.

Anonymous DJF August 23, 2013 7:59 AM  

“”””And let's not forget that half-savage Vibrant American Antoinette Tuff, who talked down a white school shooter and...oh wait.”””

And reason worked with the white person and he did not kill anyone.

Anonymous Aaron August 23, 2013 8:03 AM  

What the hell are you people talking about? I cam eot this site from memeorandum and what do I find?...Get your guns for the race war kind of crap! What the hell is a "vibrant"...is that your word for nigger? Sounds like alot of rascist like this place.

Anonymous Salt August 23, 2013 8:03 AM  

OT -

The New Mexico Supreme Court ruled on Thursday that, by refusing to photograph a gay wedding, a photography studio violated the New Mexico Human Rights Act (NMHRA).

The court found that Elane Photography’s refusal to serve Vanessa Willock violated the act, which “prohibits a public accommodation from refusing to offer its services to a person based on that person’s sexual orientation,” according to the ruling.


So, a private business is a public accommodation. Freedom of association is dead in NM. According to the court, it's “the price of citizenship.”

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 8:06 AM  

Wish I knew what to do here.

My advice is peaceful and personal self-segregation. In your case, find an upper-middle class black community. Remain on good terms with everyone who behaves with decency, regardless of their race, and keep a wary distance from the violent extremists of your own kind.

Even if things devolve into more chaos and violence, there is never any benefit to mindless hate.

Blogger Amy August 23, 2013 8:06 AM  

And fake hate crimes are ignored just as much as very real ones like Mr. Belton's murder.

Anonymous Josh August 23, 2013 8:06 AM  

And none of it will prevent Newark and Atlanta from going the way of Detroit and the situation getting worse.

Newark, yes, Atlanta no. You have to remember that the city proper of Atlanta is absolutely tiny compared to the metro area, so the city administration is limited in the damage they can do.

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 8:08 AM  

Get your guns for the race war kind of crap!

No one is saying anything like that. Why would we? We already have guns.

What the hell is a "vibrant".

Those individuals who make our neighborhoods more vibrant and convey the manifold blessings of diversity upon our society.

Anonymous Josh August 23, 2013 8:13 AM  

Vox, do you think the move to a city manager form of government is an attempt by elites in vibrant areas to avoid becoming the next Detroit? The vibrants still get to elect their vibrant mayor (who then immediately becomes the next great democratic hope), but actual city business is handled by the city manager.

Anonymous Toby Temple August 23, 2013 8:15 AM  

Ebony and Ivory ♫

- Elderly man beaten to death by 2 black teens at the Eagles Lodge in Spokane

♪ Live together in perfect harmony

- A Swedish woman was raped and murdered by 4 black men...

Side By Side On My Piano Keyboard ♪

- A black Muslim man hacks a white man to death with a machete during daytime in Uk...

♫ Oh Lord, Why Don't We?

- An 11 year old girl was gang raped by 20 black men in Texas...

Blogger Amy August 23, 2013 8:15 AM  

Newark. My mom's family is from Newark. My Polish immigrant grandfather rented, then eventually bought, a three-story row home. His wife and kids, and grandkids grew up there, through the Depression on up until great-grandma died in the late 80s. He worked two jobs and ran rum to keep his family fed. My grandma remembers chasing down pigeons in the streets to bring home dinner.

Poles, Irish, Portuguese, Hungarians, and Italians all lived cheek-by-jowl with each other and got along. Not perfectly, but no one was smashing the windows of Pork Chop businesses because Portuguese, or raping and murdering Italian or Polish women. It was more like banter and subtle sticking together because we're better than them, especially when it came to marriage and church. Each ethnic group had its own church, you could tell which ethnic group was served by the church by the name of the Saint to whom the church was dedicated.

Then forced vibrancy occurred. My great-grandmother was mugged at knife- and gunpoint a few times, on her way home from her job at the local grocery store. My grandfather took grandma and my mom and uncles out of there pronto, to the sticks, where we all live today. It wasn't far enough; my mom remembers being brought to school and right back home again when a group of angry black kids from Trenton gathered at her high school to beat up the white kids trying to enter the building. This was in 68, 69 I guess.

Cory Booker, The Rock, and the proposed PSE&G power plant seem to be the only fragile glue holding Newark together. And Booker is making a Senate run, so when he is gone, what will keep Newark from outright Detroit style degradation? It's right on the precipice as it is.

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 8:17 AM  

Vox, do you think the move to a city manager form of government is an attempt by elites in vibrant areas to avoid becoming the next Detroit?

Almost certainly. The leader as figurehead is not exactly a new form of government. The idea is to permit the appearance of black rule while the professional non-black bureaucracy is expected to keep the usual shenanigans in check. I think it is far too late for that, though.

I see the Obama administration's return to forced desegregation through HUD as a misguided Hail Mary attempt.

Anonymous zen0 August 23, 2013 8:22 AM  

Aaron complains: What the hell are you people talking about? I cam eot this site from memeorandum and what do I find?.

What the hell are THEY talking about. What the hell are YOU talking about.

First day with your new fingers?

Blogger Ciphra Summam August 23, 2013 8:24 AM  

Get your guns for the race war kind of crap! What the hell is a "vibrant"...is that your word for nigger?

Drudge has a link to a website called "war on the horizon". It openly calls for the extermination of whites by the Afrikans, in order to insure their survival.

Because whites have always been the problem with Africa.

Anonymous fnn August 23, 2013 8:29 AM  

Drudge has a link to a website called "war on the horizon". It openly calls for the extermination of whites by the Afrikans, in order to insure their survival.


You left out the part about the owner of the website being an employee of Homeland Security who specializes in Minority Outreach.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 8:29 AM  

realmatt:

"Christianize them" means nail the motherfuckers to large wooden crosses and leave them there to die by inches, over days.

Anonymous fnn August 23, 2013 8:31 AM  

Aaron complains: What the hell are you people talking about? I cam eot this site from memeorandum and what do I find?.

I'll bet he's a black Aaron and not a Jewish Aaron.

Blogger tz August 23, 2013 8:45 AM  

Detroit shows that even Blacks have it so ingrained that they tolerate living in an uncivilized area.

It need not be so forever. But it will take a new Martin Luther King to wake them up so they will no longer tolerate the violence and evil from within than their Grandparents tolerated it from without.

The vibrant are the most common victims of vibrancy. How many americans are killed by that v.s. terrorism?

If all Satan needs to do o destroy things is to concentrate and make a group evil that there is some taboo in calling it out or opposing it - blacks - feminists - banksters - he wins easily.

The color of your skin is not an excuse to have a Satanic content of your character.

The lack of a Y chromosome dose not absolve you from having a doctor kill your baby or raising a child dedicated to evil.

Detroit is being judged - but we can even see the mercy, but are there even 10 righteous left? Satan answers every call to live a life of righteousness and reject and shun the evildoers with "racist! sexist!".

And is a perverse reverse exorcism, those of the spirit of righteousness are driven out at those words.

Where are those who will proclaim the Gospel boldly?

Anonymous ZhukovG August 23, 2013 8:46 AM  

I know the old line about not ascribing to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence, but it seems like African-Americans are being set up for ethnic cleansing, Balkan style.

I wonder are they using Latinos to push African-Americans back into the American SE, in hopes that Southern Euro-Americans will be the ones that do the cleansing. This would allow the NE Elites to not only get rid of African-Americans, but provide an excuse to suppress the South under martial law for ‘humanitarian’ purposes.

Or, perhaps I should just try my hand at writing speculative fiction.

Blogger Breadbasket August 23, 2013 8:56 AM  

I think the "MATRIX" analogy that is floating around best describes what is happening. If you ignore the media and go out on the streets, you see what is really happening. It is ironic that this guy survived the battle of Okinawa, an absolutly horrible battle, but dies in Spokane, Wa at the hand of black thugs. I think that the internet is changing this awareness rapidly. No one I know even gets the news from TV anymore, it is losing power because it has been exposed. Modern new is the equivalent of PRAVDA in the old USSR.

Anonymous Porky August 23, 2013 8:56 AM  

I was at Uni full-time, living in a dorm two blocks from where vibrants raped a few co-eds and where robbery was a regular occurrence.

You went to USC too?

Anonymous Mike M. August 23, 2013 8:56 AM  

Two thoughts occur to me.

First, a Zombie Apocalypse scenario will get very messy. Because the gangbangers aren't that smart...but an enraged kinsman of a victim is likely to be. Think DC Sniper, but 20 IQ points smarter. Working hard not just to retaliate, but to cover his tracks. Effectively uncatchable, especially if it's not one person but two or three.

I don't think the pressure is quite to that level yet, but it's building.

Second, sooner or later this will happen to a non-White victim. And the Hispanics can't be saddled with the race guilt card.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 8:59 AM  

Vox...."What I suspect will happen, sooner or later, is that the wrong white girl will be killed and her father and/or brothers will go Zombie Apocalypse on every vibrant he/they can find."

Yes, I have been waiting for it. I call it the "WRONG ONE" outcome, when THEY make a mess out of the wrong victim. All their relatives will have a new hobby....or preoccupation.....and the Zebra killer was an absolute amateur by comparison. A mere half dozen angry and vengeful family members would be too much for the local police to handle. Even if they were all caught....and I am not too sure that would happen.....there is no jury that would convict them.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 9:12 AM  

I wonder what Phoenecian would say to these stories. While finally getting honorable mention in the Mainstream Media lately, this is hardly a new problem.

KEOKUK, IOWA (march 2012)-- Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty for two Oklahoma men accused of murdering a former Keokuk couple.
19-year-old Darren Price and 21-year-old Jerard Davis are accused of the shooting of Keokuk natives Carissa Horton and her boyfriend Ethan Nichols.
Carissa Horton, 19, and Ethan Nichols, 21 were found dead in a park.
Horton and Nichols had lived in Keokuk and had recently moved to Tulsa. Police say they were out on a romantic stroll at night when two men ambushed them with the intent to rob them at gun point. That's when they were told to get on their knees and were executed.
Horton had been home-schooled in the Keokuk area and was going to college at Oral Roberts University in Oklahoma at the time of her death.
Nichols was the son of former Keokuk City Council member Scott Nichols. He graduated from Keokuk High School in 2008 and attended Southeastern Community college.
Murder suspects Darren Price and Jerard Davis have pleaded not guilty to the slayings.
http://www.fox23.com/mostpopular/story/Suspects-arrested-in-double-murder/i6A_KSxa1kyF2Pz_DIN29A.cspx

Tulsa, OK (march 2012) An 85-year-old woman was sexually assaulted and battered to death by a home invader who also shot her 90-year-old husband in the face.
Nancy and Bob Strait, who had celebrated their 65th wedding anniversary in December, were discovered by their daughter at their home in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Both the pensioners were rushed to hospital where Mrs Strait, who was nearly blind, died from her injuries.
Mr Strait, who served in the 101st Airborne Division in World War II, suffered a broken jaw, broken ribs and severe bleeding. He is in a serious condition in hospital.
Police have arrested 20-year-old Tyrone Dale David Woodfork in connection with the case.
The Straits' distraught family today paid tribute to the pair, who grew up in poverty in rural Oklahoma during the Great Depression.
They met each other on a blind date on Thanksgiving 1946, married a month later and went on to have six children, 18 grandchildren and about 50 great and great-great grandchildren. They had recently welcomed a great-great-great grandchild.
Their daughters Lanora and Andra told Tulsa World that the couple were loving and generous people who would do anything for anyone.
'Dad never talked, and Mama never quit talking,' Lanora said.
'Whatever she did, it came from the heart,' Andra added.
The pair could be found sitting on their porch singing and playing the guitar during warmer summer evenings.
Mr Strait, who had worked for the oil derrick supply company Lee C. Moore before retirement, enjoyed woodwork while his wife loved making quilts and baking.
They had both been struggling with health problems before the attack. Mr Strait had been diagnosed with a terminal kidney illness but had outlived the doctor's prognosis.
'He was living because Mother was alive,' Andra told Tulsa World.
The couple had had food poisoning the week before the attack.
'There is no one else who has been through what he's been through who is still alive,' Lanora said of her father.
'We pray he doesn't remember.'
Tulsa police believe burglars broke into the Straits' home either late Tuesday or early Wednesday last week. They were not found until the Wednesday evening.
The home invaders made off with their Dodge Neon, a television and $200.
Woodfork was later found hiding in a nearby house after a witness spotted the stolen vehicle being driven down the road.
He is being held at Tulsa Jail without bail accused of first-degree murder, burglary, assault with a dangerous weapon and two counts of armed robbery.
'This investigation is far from over,' Officer Jason Willingham of the Tulsa police department told Tulsa World. 'We've still got a lot of questions that we still need answered.'



Anonymous Alexander August 23, 2013 9:15 AM  

"Atlanta" probably will go the way of Detroit, but Josh has the right of it. Not only does the rest of the state do everything it can to ensure that Atlanta, Atlanta stays very small, but the 'burbs around Atlanta are making a lot of noise to separate themselves from the city or to guarantee they don't get sucked in in the first place. Even Athens - our happy blue utopia - is united in making sure Atlanta stays some place else.

The politician who many moons ago thought it would be genius to have the 75, 85 and 20 all intersect in the middle of a major city may end up a hero, given how much damage he did to Atlanta's ability blob out as a single, cohesive unit.

Blogger Remo August 23, 2013 9:15 AM  

History shows that if other races want to live alongside black people the blacks must be terrified of the other races. In the old South, a black male who went out a raped a white woman or killed a white person wasn't given 15 years of free meals and a place to exercise and be with his friends - he was tortured and killed when caught.

It appears that Europeans and Asians can both be convinced to not commit wanton acts of disgusting violence without being forced to witness overwhelming displays of torture and death should they step out of line. Not true for blacks so it seems. If the next Christopher Newsom and Channon Christian case was immediately followed up with the blacks who committed the act being burned alive in the middle of whatever ghetto they came from such acts would dramatically decrease. This is a matter of history and this method of intimidation is currently working in the Dominican Republic. Obviously simply sending them to camp for a few years to lift weights and eat isn't working. Of course as Vox has pointed out, the other solution is either elimination or segregation but I don't believe segregation would work. For one thing the blacks won't stand for it because they know deep down they need whites to keep their current standard of living.

But lets say we decided to give black America it's 40 acres each in the Southern bible belt. One of the most fertile places in the U.S. for growing crops and lots of Ocean access for shipping and trade. Drive all the whites and Asians out and put up a big fence - Blacks only - this is your land. Give them Tennesse, North and South Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia. Within a year absolutely everything would be in serious need of repair. Roads and infrastructure would quickly deteriorate to 3rd world levels. Within 3-5 years there would be mass starvation, rampant crime, and every little rain shower or minor Earthquake would see them screaming for aid on the nightly news. The whole place would look like present day Liberia and yes they'd blame whitey, again, somehow, for not giving them enough. As things got more desperate they'd pour over the fence trying to get back into the white or Asian areas looking for work just like the Haitians are desperate to get into the Dominican Republic. If this is allowed with no change to the current justice system they would promptly start committing horrific crimes again. Any deportation would be labeled "racism" and "hate" and we'd be back where we started.

The only reason the Dominican Republic is still a relatively nice place is the police do not mess around with the Haitians and if they *do* act out they end up face down in a sugar cane field missing their fingers, toes, teeth, and genitals. Sadly I think that it's just going to get worse and worse until a Hitler like persona comes along with some sort of "great cleansing" message... if you were someone who got a call while at work that his girlfriend, sister, mother, or wife was violently gang raped would a person who says he'll fix the problem *permanently* get your vote? How about someone who has just been told that both his neighbors are going to section 8 and he can't do anything about it. He looks at his 7 year old daughter and 5 year old son and his sleeping wife - what goes through his mind? "Oh good! I like vibrancy! I just hope my kids don't accidentally say the "N" word while they are getting beaten up!"

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 9:18 AM  

Now for the rest of the above story....

An Oklahoma man suspected in a brutal home invasion -- already facing a murder charge for allegedly killing an elderly woman -- could face additional charges after the death last week of her husband, a D-Day veteran.

Bob Strait, a 90-year-old Tulsa resident, died on Friday, and a medical examiner is determining his cause of death, News On 6 reports.

He was injured March 13 when, police say, Tyrone Woodfork, 20, entered the house and attacked, allegedly beating and sexually assaulted Strait's 85-year-old wife, Nancy Strait, who died two days later. The couple had been married for 65 years.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/07/beating-suspect-could-face-additional-charges-in-wwii-vet-death/#ixzz2cnX7TMHv

Blogger Amy August 23, 2013 9:28 AM  

Remo, NABALT! NABALT! NABALT! It's like some kind of chant they say every day before school.

And in reality, NABALT. But not enough of them.

Even the non-criminal blacks are poor planners. Mr. C works with a few black guys who were AA'd into their jobs. Talk of overtime goes around and the first thing they can think of is how much more awesome their car/clothes will be, rather than clothing the four or five kids they have with various women, buying diapers and clothes for their little ones, or making up the back rent payments. Priorities all upside down.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 9:32 AM  

Aaron complains: What the hell are you people talking about? I cam eot this site from memeorandum and what do I find?.

fnn...."I'll bet he's a black Aaron and not a Jewish Aaron."

I will gladly take that bet. I could use the money. Aaron is a Liberal Jew, not black. A black Aaron would not even be surprised by talk of a race war.

Anonymous Anonymous August 23, 2013 9:32 AM  

The reason we aren't seeing civilized people going all zombie apocalypse is that they're civilized. Civilized people analyze the data, conduct a risk assessment and then make decisions. The decision to go zombie apocalypse is completely emotional with extreme consequences from the security apparatus of the state.

However, we have reached the point at which technology offers some interesting permutations to the risk assessment calculation. Imagine, if you will, a 3-D printed weapon zeroed to an optically enhanced IP webcam attached to an IP controlled pan-tilt security camera mount. These can be constructed in small packages for a rather low cost and while they're one-shot wonders, they'd be impossible to trace to the person controlling them. All that's required is a power source and WIFI... and really, there's already an app to control it.

Amping it up a bit, imagine a Calico M950 or one of the venerable M1 carbines with a large oil filter attached to the muzzle to dampen the sound signature. Again, a small package but capable of being mounted in the right spot and controlled from literally anywhere that has an internet connection to eliminate targets in a predefined cone of fire. If concealed well, it probably wouldn't be found because the assumption is that when a weapon is fired, there is a person holding it. The effective range of well over 200 yards offers some interesting possibilities.

Everything I'm describing is off-the-shelf technology but it goes even further. A quad-copter could be mounted with a light-weight weapon and used to exterminate vermin in the most unlikely places. Yes, we have already entered the age of DIY drones. Again, this is OTS technology and all that's required is someone who has the knowledge and ability to be motivated.

Vox, ya think if I wrote a book in which the vibrant blogging protagonist does stuff like this to kill off annoying patriarchal Christians after being unfairly publicly shamed by the patriarchy due to intellectual inadequacy, the SFWA would be all hugs and kisses and want me to join their circlejerk?

Anonymous Brother Thomas August 23, 2013 9:37 AM  

@Breadbasket August 23, 2013 8:56 AM "I think that the internet is changing this awareness rapidly. No one I know even gets the news from TV anymore, it is losing power because it has been exposed. Modern new is the equivalent of PRAVDA in the old USSR."



I stopped watching the ABCNBCBS news in 1989. I stopped watching television in 2009. Unplgging from the Matrix is a good anology.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 23, 2013 9:41 AM  

VD, I felt that your juxtaposition of Jemisin's irrational fears about her risks as a person of color in Australia with the observably rational fears that White Australians would have from persons of color in the US to be sublime.

These new events make it even more so.

It is amusing, as well, that evidence tells us that Jemisin probably has more to fear from Native and non-native persons of color in Australia than she does from whites. There are numerous cases of such persons assaulting and causing the death of both white Australians and Asians in Australia.

Blogger Remo August 23, 2013 9:43 AM  

If a white man goes zombie apocalypse on black people I fully expect Obama and Holder to institute emergency draconian gun control. Given the current government what I would imagine is Obama emptying the prisons and places like Detroit, passing out all the ammunition and guns that Homeland security has been buying, and charging the vibrant felons with assisting in the house to house elimination of the gun problem in white areas. Resistance would be racist of course. Black local police would assist (and they would assist... happily). Who would stop this? The military? Is there anything left of this or is it all stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Syria, and Yemen, and Egypt, etc.

When the tanks are rolling down the streets with gangbangers riding high and pimping the latest weapons I don't believe bubba and his .308 are going to scare them. Will he pick off one or two before being killed in a hail of inaccurately fired bullets? Yes I know they are vastly outnumbered but they are also not morally and mentally straitjacketed into believing that any defense of anything white is racist and thus of the devil. Remember there is NO greater sin than racism. The crime was not that a black person was committing armed robbery - that's fine - the crime was Paula calling him the "N" word when describing his crime. The fact that this story is given ANY serious consideration is insane and that is the state of the U.S. - insane. Can an insane people defend themselves when they believe the enemy is not the people raping and killing them but thinking politically incorrect thoughts about those people?

Anonymous The other skeptic August 23, 2013 9:47 AM  

However, high ranking members of the one party with two wings will be protected from international vibrants and troublemakers.

Anonymous Josh August 23, 2013 9:52 AM  

Is it just me, or do these stories seem to be happening most often outside of the South?

As a Mississippi quail hunting guide told a friend of mine, "our niggers ain't like y'all's niggers. They know their place."

Anonymous hardscrabble farmer August 23, 2013 9:53 AM  

Interesting.

Last night after I first came across this story, I decided to watch the one-eyed (fill in the blank). I forget which cable network had the program but the title was something like "Co-ed Crime Victims" or something like that. One of the featured stories was of a stunning young lady from Virginia who went to a concert and never came home. Her skeleton was discovered by a local farmer in the Spring and although a sketch of the African looking suspect was circulated, the culprit had yet to be brought to justice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/05/morgan-harrington-sketch_n_1570413.html

Her parents, to honor the memory of their beautiful blond daughter dedicated a school in Zambia to her.

I don't think that there will ever come a time when White Americans will say enough- at least not a critical mass of them. I suspect it is far more likely that we will go the same route as the Amerinds in the 19th century, if lucky we'll be confined to reservations, if not genocided out of existance.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 9:54 AM  

Excesses lead to more excesses. This is how these things get started.

TULSA, Okla. — The explanation for a shooting rampage that terrorized Tulsa's black neighborhood and left three people dead may lie in a killing that took place more than two years ago.

Carl England, whose son is accused in the weekend shooting spree, was fatally shot in 2010 by a man who had threatened his daughter and tried to kick in the door of her home.

The man was black, and police say England's son may have been seeking vengeance when he and his roommate shot five black people last week.

Police documents given to the Associated Press said the two suspects have both confessed. According to a police statement, 19-year-old Jake England admitted shooting three people and 32-year-old Alvin Watts confessed to shooting two.

Also Monday, the two suspects appeared in court to have their bond set at $9.16 million apiece. Authorities have said they expect to charge the pair with three counts of first-degree murder and other crimes.

Family and friends say Carl England's death sent his son into a downward spiral. On Thursday, Jake England apparently wrote a Facebook post marking the second anniversary of his father's death and lamented that "it's hard not to go off."

Back in 2010, Carl England had responded to his daughter's call for help and with her boyfriend tracked down the man who tried to break in. A fight broke out, and the man took out a gun and fired at England.

The man who pulled the trigger, Pernell Jefferson, was not charged with homicide because an investigation determined he acted in self-defense.

Jefferson was charged with attempted burglary and a weapons violation and had his probation revoked in an unrelated weapons case for which he is serving a six-year sentence. He is scheduled to be tried in May on the burglary charge.

According to an affidavit, Jefferson tried to kick in the door of the apartment England's daughter shared with her boyfriend after the boyfriend hit him with a baseball bat during an earlier confrontation at the couple's home.

When Carl England and the boyfriend found Jefferson, Jefferson came at England, who hit Jefferson with a stick. Jefferson fell to the ground, pulled out a handgun and fatally shot the elder England.

Jefferson fled but was arrested after seeking treatment for his injuries at a hospital.

Blogger Justthisguy August 23, 2013 9:55 AM  

Oh, Colonel Kratman, when you write "Christianize 'em", do you mean thwack 'em upside the head? That would be a good start, methinks.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 23, 2013 9:56 AM  

Homeland Security prestaging equipment to keep Americans under control.

Everyone has paranoid visions.

Anonymous whtbread August 23, 2013 9:57 AM  

Liberalism, whether it is of the Marxist or Libertarian variety, has been colliding with reality for a long while in this country. Liberalism, so far, has been winning the battles of public opinion thanks to the media control by the elites. How much longer this can remain is still a mystery to me but one has to know that waging a war on nature doesn't end peacefully.

Anonymous Feh August 23, 2013 9:59 AM  

"Even if they were all caught....and I am not too sure that would happen.....there is no jury that would convict them."

The gummint would put together a "Federal civil rights trial".

Anonymous Will Best August 23, 2013 9:59 AM  

I am pretty sure the reason nobody has gone zombie apocalypse is because if the police suspect that level of rage out of the family, they make sure to check in on them every few days, and assign them a social worker for "grief consoling" whose real job is to act as an early warning.

I doubt civil war will happen until the finances in this country get so bad that either we just stop writing checks or taxes become some burdensome that the the 20-60% crowd actually gets put on the hook for sustaining those that are killing them.

Anonymous Brother Thomas August 23, 2013 9:59 AM  

"...But who created these monsters? Where did they come from? Surely one explanation lies in the fact that the old conscience-forming and character-forming institutions — home, church, school, and a moral and healthy culture fortifying basic truths — have collapsed. And the community hardest hit is Black America.

If we go back to the end of World War II, 90 percent of black families consisted of a mother and father and children raised and disciplined by their parents. The churches to which these families went on Sundays were stronger..." Pat Buchanan 08-23-2013



Blogger Lawrence August 23, 2013 10:04 AM  

When I read drivel about how some black folks feel hurt and afraid because of some nebulous look a stranger gave them, or a tax cab driver that passed them by, I wonder just how the hell Leftists can write this crap and pat each other on the back for it. That's not sad, that's just life. Some people are dicks, and that's the way of the world. White people have to "suffer" the assholes of the world too.

Reading articles like this, however, just make me angry. Here is a genuinely sad story of real racism at work. A man who fought for his country and lived a responsible, productive life is beaten to death in a parking lot because of his race. Where are the Leftists and their crocodile tears now? Where is the pity for the struggle this man suffered through?

They will sling rhetoric all day for a "poor woman" who was given a few dirty looks by a pharmacist, but they have nothing to offer for this man.

Anonymous Roundtine August 23, 2013 10:05 AM  

Black people, even the criminal element, are not the problem. Black communities were far more ordered prior to the 1960s. The real enemy are the liberal elite. Breivik didn't go nuts and shoot up Muslims.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 23, 2013 10:05 AM  

.there is no jury that would convict them.

Oh, I am sure they can find a jury full of vibrant drug addicts to be their peers.

Blogger jamsco August 23, 2013 10:16 AM  

"Is it possible that I am wrong and contra both my observations and historical patterns that can be observed throughout the entire written record of Man, the USA is not going to be riven by ethnic strife, but is instead on the verge of transforming itself into a glorious and peaceful multi-ethnic utopia?"

There are other options besides these two, in a similar fashion that there are other options besides massive inflation and massive deflation.

Something like, "Thing are going to pretty much keep going as they have been, maybe a little worse, maybe a little better."

I'm not saying that there is evidence suggesting this, but it is a possibility.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:16 AM  

No, I mean nail 'em up.

Blogger Justthisguy August 23, 2013 10:22 AM  

As a Southern boy, I likes me some cornbread (no sugar in it please, that goes into the iced tea) crumbled up in buttermilk. Collard greens, cooked for a long time and well-greased, are wonderful.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 23, 2013 10:23 AM  

Disgusted demonstrates a lack of understanding of the statistical concept of outliers:

And let's not forget that half-savage Vibrant American Antoinette Tuff, who talked down a white school shooter and...oh wait.

Decided not to cherry-pick that particular story, eh Vox?


An extreme outlier from the half-savage interacts with an extreme outlier of the civilized.

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 10:23 AM  

Something like, "Thing are going to pretty much keep going as they have been, maybe a little worse, maybe a little better."

It depends upon your time frame. It is not a possibility in the medium term, much less the long term, because nothing continues forever. In the short term? Certainly.

I have noticed that one way to determine time preferences is to notice who cannot even imagine things being any different than the way they are right now.

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 10:24 AM  

No, I mean nail 'em up.

I get the impression you would have made for a good Roman centurion, Col. Kratman.

Blogger RobertT August 23, 2013 10:27 AM  

perhaps the race war has already started and nobody noticed yet. when people get the idea they have to pack heat just to safely go to the grocery store and they have to follow their wives and children around with a shotgun to protect them and they begin to worry they're in for a gunfight every time they see some black teens, things will change dramatically

Anonymous Pequod August 23, 2013 10:27 AM  

"Christianize them."

We are talking about the most religious demographic in America here.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 23, 2013 10:31 AM  

We are talking about the most religious demographic in America here.

You haven't read his books, have you.

That means crucify them.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:31 AM  

Who?

Anonymous Golf Pro August 23, 2013 10:34 AM  

"Is it possible that I am wrong and contra both my observations and historical patterns that can be observed throughout the entire written record of Man, the USA is not going to be riven by ethnic strife"

There's an easy solution. Build more golf courses and put golf clubs in the hands of more Blacks. Crime statistics show that those who adopt golf as a serious hobby are much less likely to commit violent crimes or robbery.

It's also true that dedicated golfers tend to have a much higher average income than non-golfers, so this effort to put golf clubs in the hands of blacks will solve the other problem of blacks having a demonstrably lower income, which will also help stem the tide of violence and robbery.

Gold also has the added benefit of providing a splendid outlet for those feeling violent. There's nothing quite like whacking a golf ball as hard as you can to get those urges out of you.

And of course, how often to you hear about murders and felonies occurring during a golf game.

The solution is right in front of our eyes. Tee it up!!

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:34 AM  

Vox:

I have considerable faith in the efficacy of pain, shame, and specific or genocidal/civilicidal terror. And, since common law felons have, by their own actions (which, of course, speak louder than words) renounced the social compact, which is all that gives them any rights I am obligated to respect, why not nail the motherfuckers up and get a little use from their rather disgusting deaths?

It's for the children, after all.

Blogger RobertT August 23, 2013 10:35 AM  

these black punks are playing the odds. what are the odds that they will encounter someone prepared to defend themselves when they and three friends walk around looking for an easy target? eventually they'll find one. the only way to stop that is to change the odds a lot. if the cops cant do it, maybe vigilantes? This cannot keep escalating without ramifications

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 10:37 AM  

I have considerable faith in the efficacy of pain, shame, and specific or genocidal/civilicidal terror.

I suppose it worked for both the Romans and the Chinese longer than anything has for anything else.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:38 AM  

Yep.

Anonymous Anonymous August 23, 2013 10:42 AM  

RP-in-TX "Most "soul food" is just southern cuisine with a vibrant label. I've had friends visit from the west coast who were shocked to see white people eating collard greens and fried okra in their own homes."

A lot of Southern cuisine is thanks to the Yankees.

The Yanks burned all the crops or confiscated all the stored food so as to starve Southerner's to death in a deliberate genocide.

Thus Southerners had to eat whatever was edible to survive. Hence collard greens, turnip greens, grits, etc. became staples in Southern diet.

Anonymous realmatt August 23, 2013 10:44 AM  

The liberal elite will always exist as they always have. But we have a more immediate problem in the form of unteachable angry black folk doing as they please, getting caught and receiving little press.

Expose them and the real problem, the liberal elite, will reveal itself.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 10:46 AM  

Golf Pro...."There's an easy solution. Build more golf courses and put golf clubs in the hands of more Blacks."

Not sure how that would work. They already handle golf clubs all the time and have for decades....they are called "caddies".....AND they even get PAID to be there and handle the golf clubs. Kinda like Golf Pros.

Anonymous realmatt August 23, 2013 10:46 AM  

Let's Go JEter

Anonymous ODG August 23, 2013 10:47 AM  

It would have to be threat of starvation - no other reason explains why someone would eat okra.

As to the (potentially) coming race war: I live in the shadow of both Detroit (black) AND Dearborn (arab/muslim), with Mexican-town close at hand and Southfield (Jewish) not too far away. Interesting times (in the Chinese proverbial sense) are on the way.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:48 AM  

No. Though there were a few places where deliberate massive damage to infrastructure accompanied by foraging and crop destruction was done, these were quite limited: Sheridan in the northern Shanandoah and Shermans march to the sea being the biggies. Rather, the south starved because it wasn't food sufficient to begin with, because it had a crappy rail net to begin with, because it lacked industry hence couldn't maintain even the crappy net it had, because it had more men under arms that it could afford to have away from the farm, and because it was cut off from trade by blockade.

Blogger Lawrence August 23, 2013 10:48 AM  

"Expose them and the real problem, the liberal elite, will reveal itself."

You can't expose them. We already know about them. The Liberals are willfully blind. The Liberal won't realize what's going on until the gun is in his face and about to go off.

We are reaping the fruit of a hundred years of socialized education brainwashing people into Leftist drones, parroting the "wisdom" of a bunch of aristocratic Liberal jackwagons. It's a bitter harvest.

Anonymous John August 23, 2013 10:52 AM  

"while he personally deplored the attack, it was not a hate crime but one born of frustration at being black and held down."

"As I said, they are irrelevant. At a certain point, everyone loses interest in why it is raining and simply focuses on how to remain dry."


Anyone care to guess when this change of focus will take place, say a 5 year window, as in, 2015-2020?

The sooner the better from a demographic and tactical perspective.

Blogger Kristophr August 23, 2013 10:56 AM  

The real problem are multi-culti liberal twits, of course.

This is just the Sanford Prison Experiment written upon an entire culture.

If you give ANY group complete authority to do anything to everyone else, and do not ever punish them for bad behavior, you will start to see killings, beatings, and bad behavior.

Some blacks have refused to join the "guards", but completely unrestrained authority is just so irresistible ...

Anonymous YIH August 23, 2013 11:00 AM  

If you want to see what happened to Detroit on a small scale just watch this video.
PROTIP: No matter how tempting that section 8 money seems, don't rent to vibrants - you WILL regret it!

Anonymous Susan August 23, 2013 11:02 AM  

fnn,

That vibrant with the raciss website is not only a DHS employee, he is one of Big Sis's helpers in stockpiling all the ammo, weaponry and armored vehicles she can lay her hands on.

The article I read said the website was approved by DHS in part because of the description he gave his bosses, and they did not bother to monitor the site after it was set up either.

Blogger Ciphra Summam August 23, 2013 11:03 AM  

No, I mean nail 'em up.

Col. Kratman the Assyrian

Blogger Justthisguy August 23, 2013 11:03 AM  

Oh yeah, Vox, just look at the pic Col. Kratman shows of himself on his web site. That is a scary badass. I want to be on his side in a fight, or have him on my side in a fight, whichever.

Anonymous nick digger August 23, 2013 11:09 AM  

"Either you're the type of black person who participates in random beatings, murder, and destruction and your heart is already too hardened to listen or you..." are the other type of black person who celebrates when the black thug gets away with his crime against Whitey (OJ), or is outraged when the black thug is stopped in his tracks by Half-whitey (Trayvon). At best, maybe 5% of blacks would side with Right over Race, so, yeah, the Rainbow Storm headed at them is not going to mete out justice with an eye-dropper, nor lose any sleep over accidentally getting "one of the good ones"(tm).

Anonymous MendoScot August 23, 2013 11:10 AM  

I wish you Southrons would stop whingeing. One word for you:

Haggis.

Anonymous Anonymous August 23, 2013 11:10 AM  

Pequod "We are talking about the most religious demographic in America here."

There is a mistaken understanding of Blacks and their religion. Fortunately while attending college in the late '60s I had a U.S. History teacher who set us straight on this matter.

She would be a blue state liberal now, but she was honest. She told us that Blacks as slaves or freemen had no real rights, so they found an area where they could gain status from Whites - religion.

To Whites the priest or pastor was recognized, respected, and deferred to. So Blacks began to "get the call" to preach. They thereby became the leader of the local Blacks, not just religiously, but politically as well. The "Christianity" of Blacks was a cover, camouflage if you will, for the political aspirations of Blacks among their own.

And it allowed Blacks, who were not allowed to congregate in groups, to meet together in numbers and while seemingly praying and exhorting, were actually conspiring and forming blocks which would later coalesce into the Black voting block; first secretly and later openly against "whitey".

This is why all the "civil rights" shills like, Martin Luther King, Ralph Abernathy, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, ad nauseum are "the Reverend" so and so.

It was a con game that Whites bought into, and still plays well over a hundred years later.

Blogger Kristophr August 23, 2013 11:12 AM  

ZhukovG August 23, 2013 8:46 AM

"I know the old line about not ascribing to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence, but it seems like African-Americans are being set up for ethnic cleansing, Balkan style."


The libtards have no clue what kind of pure hell they have set blacks up for. They really are that stupid.

Imagine the Sanford Prison Experiment with the "inmates" carrying concealed pistols.

Anonymous patrick kelly August 23, 2013 11:16 AM  

@Aaron: "I cam eot this site from memeorandum........Sounds like alot of rascist like this place."

Was that a "memeorandum" listing banned sites full of mean, nasty RACISS people?

Must be a meme patrol rookie. Welcome to the jungle.

Sob, he called us RACISS!!......sniffle...sniffle..

Blogger Kristophr August 23, 2013 11:17 AM  

MendoScot August 23, 2013 11:10 AM

"I wish you Southrons would stop whingeing."

I'm a yankee born and bred, Mendo. The two times I needed to pull a pistol in public to prevent a mugging involved Blacks who felt my life was less valuable than the contents of my pockets.

When you keep telling a group of people they can do no wrong, they start to believe you.

Blogger Kristophr August 23, 2013 11:20 AM  

Sorry, make that three times. I forgot to count the asshole who brought a brick to a gunfight.

Blogger Ashley August 23, 2013 11:20 AM  

@Josh:

Newark, yes, Atlanta no. You have to remember that the city proper of Atlanta is absolutely tiny compared to the metro area, so the city administration is limited in the damage they can do.

That's ridiculously untrue. Atlanta is the 4th largest city in the world, in terms of land area (132.4 sq miles).

It also dominates the government of the largest county in which it resides (Fulton), which includes most of the wealthiest suburbs of the city. And I speak with intimate knowledge, having just moved out of Fulton county 6 months ago after 13 years of residency, for that very reason.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 11:20 AM  

Tom Kratman..."No. Though there were a few places where deliberate massive damage to infrastructure accompanied by foraging and crop destruction was done, these were quite limited: Sheridan in the northern Shanandoah and Shermans march to the sea being the biggies."

Quite limited? You left out the burning of farms/ barns/ mills, confiscating livestock/food, taking over banks, burning plantations, courthouses, schools and colleges, imprisoning state and local government officials, outlawing travel on roads, destroying the railroad, bockading all ports, and preventing river trade....these certainly played a part....and they were not confined to Sherman's March to the Sea or West Virginia.

Tom Kratman...."Rather, the south starved because it wasn't food sufficient to begin with, because it had a crappy rail net to begin with, because it lacked industry hence couldn't maintain even the crappy net it had, because it had more men under arms that it could afford to have away from the farm, and because it was cut off from trade by blockade."

NO. There was little rail in the South to begin with and it was mainly for transporting cotton bales and tobacco to port facilities. (Southern trade was largely by rivers and ports.) There was plenty of food to begin with....that is why they COULD grow tobacco and cotton for cash crops. (Yes, if you take away the horses and mules, the slave labor and free labor, leaving it mostly to the women to do the farming, there will be less food, during the war and after the war.)

But war experiences, as dreadful as they were, do not create a tradition of poverty. You get that from Federal occupation and deliberate Federal policies for a century to suppress the South, confiscation of property (never returned or compensated), and laws/tarrifs intended to disadvantage two-way trade.


Immobility plus privation equals starvation plus disease. Burn what few factories there were in the South and stop all foreign trade (which is even the modern substitute for industrialization), close the Southern banks in favor of carpetbagger Union banks, add swindlers and card sharks mixed with a generous dose of Reconstruction corruption, murder, kidnapping/ransom, infamy and deny all Confederate whites the ability to vote or run for public office....and poof.....you get a century of hate, poverty, genocide, and blame. What a surprise that everyone in the South had to share that experience, black and white.

Blogger Jordan179 August 23, 2013 11:21 AM  

Vox, I agree with you that American blacks are the problem -- but I believe that the problem is cultural rather than biological. For one thing, American blacks and whites are not genetically-distinct groups, due to extensive interbreeding over the last 350 years. For another thing, a half-century and more back, when there had been less interbreeding but also less white liberal attempts to "help" blacks, blacks were considerably less violent. I think the basic problem has been the breakdown of black families, encouraged by anti-family white liberals; coupled with white liberal refusal to clamp down hard on violent blacks (which had the added effect of demoralizing the many non-violent blacks).

If you treated any ethnic group the way we treated blacks -- first enslaving and then coddling them -- you would wind up with a pretty messed-up ethnic culture.

Blogger Lawrence August 23, 2013 11:27 AM  

Jordan: "but I believe that the problem is cultural rather than biological."

I would agree with your assessment, except that Africa is a disastrous mess as well. The colonial powers, in many cases, left behind workable systems and infrastructure in their wake. If the African powers had any wherewithal in maintaining or even creating a civilized society we would have seen a different result on that continent.

Now, you aren't completely wrong. I agree that the issues you mentioned about culture and family are important considerations. Yet, they may be symptoms of a general inability to maintain a civilized society without a strong hand.

As Vox says, it isn't that they are incapable, it is that the time is not right for them. It took the German tribes, the Irish and pretty much any white people a long time to get used to civilization. The Romans started out as a Latin tribe living in mud huts c. 1000BC or so. It took a thousand years to go from that to the pinnacle of Roman civilization. We're only 350 years, or so, into that process with Africans.

Anonymous Daniel August 23, 2013 11:37 AM  

For one thing, American blacks and whites are not genetically-distinct groups, due to extensive interbreeding over the last 350 years.

That's just false, or at best, unclear. Extensive is absolutely untrue. The vast majority of whites have no significant sub-saharan African lineage. Furthermore, there are more genetic markers than ever that distinguish the two groups. If it were a Venn diagram, you would have two enormous spheres with a sliver of overlap.

For another thing, a half-century and more back, when there had been less interbreeding but also less white liberal attempts to "help" blacks, blacks were considerably less violent.

By what metric are you measuring historic violence?

Anonymous Will Best August 23, 2013 11:44 AM  

It also dominates the government of the largest county in which it resides (Fulton), which includes most of the wealthiest suburbs of the city.

Yeah, I will probably have to leave Cook County in the next 10 years as Chicago decides to solve its budget issues at a county level.

Anonymous Heh August 23, 2013 11:46 AM  

Not sure how that would work. They already handle golf clubs all the time and have for decades....they are called "caddies".....AND they even get PAID to be there and handle the golf clubs. Kinda like Golf Pros.

Sailer had an amusing comment about this in his review of The Butler:

"Strange as it may seem now, in an America where Hispanics and Filipinos fill ever more of America’s servile jobs, African Americans were once employed across the land in vast numbers as trusted domestic servants. With the coming of the Black Pride movement in the late 1960s, however, blacks began to see service work as neo-slavery and an insult to their dignity.

Meanwhile, well-to-do whites, alarmed by the rising rates of crime and surliness among blacks, were happy to be handed a politically correct excuse to stop hiring uppity African Americans and replace them with whites or more docile and less threatening immigrants who sometimes happened to be black, albeit West Indian or African.

As recently as 1980, blacks were a solid majority of the caddies on the golf tour. As it came to seem shameful for a black man to carry a white man’s golf bag, by 2000 the black share was down to a few percent. As caddying became a six-figure job, white golfers were happy to stop oppressing blacks and replace them with family members or fraternity buddies.

Similarly, a large fraction of the tiny number of black waiters left today appear to be gay, which is not true of Mexican waiters, who don’t seem to see much threat to their manhood in providing service with a smile.

Unfortunately for blacks, it hasn’t turned out that there are all that many better jobs out there for them. While a few black men get to be gangsta rappers, many wind up dealing drugs and going to prison. This has proven a popular, stable system: Blacks get to act tough and whites get to not hire them."

Anonymous Pip August 23, 2013 11:47 AM  

If I had a grandfather, he would look like Delbert Belton.

Anonymous nick digger August 23, 2013 11:54 AM  

Kristophr: I think the "Southron whinging" MendoScot was referring to, was the food (okrah, colored greens, shitlins)

Anonymous allyn71 August 23, 2013 11:55 AM  

"...Drive all the whites and Asians out and put up a big fence - Blacks only - this is your land. Give them Tennesse, North and South Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia. Within a year absolutely everything would be in serious need of repair. Roads and infrastructure would quickly deteriorate to 3rd world levels. Within 3-5 years there would be mass starvation, rampant crime, and every little rain shower or minor Earthquake would see them screaming for aid on the nightly news..." - Remo August 23, 2013 9:15 AM


This experiment has already been done. See Rhodesia turning to Zimbabwe.

Anonymous allyn71 August 23, 2013 12:00 PM  

"...For another thing, a half-century and more back, when there had been less interbreeding but also less white liberal attempts to "help" blacks, blacks were considerably less violent. I think the basic problem has been the breakdown of black families, encouraged by anti-family white liberals; coupled with white liberal refusal to clamp down hard on violent blacks (which had the added effect of demoralizing the many non-violent blacks)." - Jordan179 August 23, 2013 11:21 AM


We have been helping the Indians a lot longer than the Blacks and while the Rez is definetly a failed sociology experiment, it aint the 'hood. There is more to it than just the diastorous policis statism.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 12:04 PM  

No, Don, I did not leave out burnings of barns, etc. Those are included under the two major operations I mentioned. Or do you somehow imagine that Sheridan, instructed to fix the Shenandoah so that a crow crossing it would have to carry his own rations, left the barns untouched. If, however, you knew much about the course of the war, then you would not how very little of the south ever felt a Yankee's foot until it was over. Now maybe the evilwickedbadnaughtybadbadbad yankees had a time machine to do damage in 1864 in places they didn't actually reach until after the war but, if so, this is the first I've heard of it.

As for food growing, I would be interested in a cite/site that showed how much food they didn't import prior to 1861. I would be further interested in _their_ time machine that allowed veterans of the armies to go back and grow food 1861-1865 tio keep the rebellion well fed, so that they could both fight and work. What? That didn't happen? The south didn't have a time machine either? Well damn...

Anonymous Jack Amok August 23, 2013 12:04 PM  

Anyone care to guess when this change of focus will take place, say a 5 year window, as in, 2015-2020?

The sooner the better from a demographic and tactical perspective.


I think it will coincide with the economic crisis. Things have been put off so far by people being able to buy themselves into safer neighborhoods. That option is withering away.

Anonymous allyn71 August 23, 2013 12:05 PM  

On a side but related note, while doing a little history lesson on the Selous Scouts I ran across a cheap little knock off site explaining the history of Rhodesia => Zimbabwe, it blamed the lack of democracy as one of the reasons for the fall of Rhodesia. Funny how strong people hold to their sacred beliefs no matter how detached from reality they are.



I can typing, the above post was supposed to finish "... the disastrous policies of statism."

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 12:08 PM  

By the way, the question is likely to come up as to the morality of the war of northern aggression. It's really easy. Either the south had the right to secede or it didn't. If it didn't, there can be no question of legitimacy, of course it was legitimate to subjugate the rebellion. If it did, they formed a legitimate foreign country which the USA was perfectly entitled to attack as a sovereign nation itself, just as the USA, with the south, had attacked Mexico. They can hardly claim any impropriety over being attacked. as a sovereign state, when they egged the country on to attack another.

Anonymous allyn71 August 23, 2013 12:09 PM  

"I think it will coincide with the economic crisis. Things have been put off so far by people being able to buy themselves into safer neighborhoods. That option is withering away." - Jack Amok August 23, 2013 12:04 PM

This is the key IMO. We will keep bumbling along setting the stage for the final act that will be triggered when the EBT won't work no more. That is the lynchpin and they know it, that is why they are setting up the police state now, time is running short.

Anonymous Josh August 23, 2013 12:16 PM  

That's ridiculously untrue. Atlanta is the4th largest city in the world, in terms of land area (132.4 sq miles).

Your link includes the Atlanta metro area:

 The tables rank cities and their surrounding urban areas by land area expressed in square kilometres. 

Furthermore, the table in that link has the area of the Atlanta metro area at 5083 sq km. In your comment, you said the area of the city of Atlanta is 132 sq miles, which is 343 sq km. So, the rest of the metro area is almost fourteen times larger than the city itself.

Math is hard, my little Barbie doll.

Blogger Justthisguy August 23, 2013 12:22 PM  

matamoros, I'm a Southern boy. Believe me. the Crooked Nigra Preacher meme is well known to us.


In other news, my church has a new Archbishop, a guy from Ghana. My pastor assures me that one is very unlikely to get murdered in Ghana, unlike Rwanda, where our previous Archbishop came from. Previous Archbishop is a Tutsi and had to leave the country to avoid being chopped to death. I have shaken hands with previous Tutsi Archbishop. A sharp guy who knows lots, he is.

As a White Nationalist, I am comfortable with my church being run by Africans, they being generally better Christians than the silly doodahs who infest the Episcopal church in the USA.

Anonymous Harsh August 23, 2013 12:23 PM  

If you treated any ethnic group the way we treated blacks -- first enslaving and then coddling them -- you would wind up with a pretty messed-up ethnic culture.

So they're victims? Meh.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter August 23, 2013 12:35 PM  

"Vox, I agree with you that American blacks are the problem -- but I believe that the problem is cultural rather than biological. For one thing, American blacks and whites are not genetically-distinct groups, due to extensive interbreeding over the last 350 years."

On average, those who identify as black have about 18% introgression of white originated genes.

Those who identify as white have much lower levels, less than 5%.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 12:40 PM  

Who can say they aren't victims, Harsh? How would _you_ like to become the liberals' poster child and pet project? Something like the Palestinians, they have been comprehensively wrecked by liberal policies and programs. It wasn't even slavery that did the damage. After all, the black family survived slavery reasonably well for 3 centuries or so. It did not survive 3 decades of liberalism over quite wide swaths.

Blogger Ashley August 23, 2013 1:00 PM  

@Josh:

Your link includes the Atlanta metro area:
The tables rank cities and their surrounding urban areas by land area expressed in square kilometres.


Oops, yes, I grabbed the city area in square miles from wikipedia. My bad. The link however, refers to the urban area, not the metro area. The metro area is actually 21,690 sq km.

Nevertheless, my point still stands. You said:

You have to remember that the city proper of Atlanta is absolutely tiny compared to the metro area, so the city administration is limited in the damage they can do.

How would you like to live 35 miles from the center of Atlanta and have your property tax assessment determined by racist assessors in downtown determined to "stick it to the rich white folks in the suburbs"? Or use a library system run by the incompetent and corrupt administrators based deep in the city? Or be forced to journey to the heart of downtown 3 times in 9 years for jury duty? Or be forced to make multiple 35 mile trips into the city and wait months for a concealed carry permit? Or travel by some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in America every time you go to/from the airport on the Marta system? Or travel through those same neighborhoods to attend baseball games, football games, basketball games, or attend Georgia's most prestigious and exclusive universities?

Having lived through all of that, I think your assertion is ridiculous.

Barbie doll? I'd like to see you call me that to my face, punk. Or are you so young and historically ignorant that you assume everyone named "Ashley" is a girl, even though that wasn't ever used as a girl's name until the late 1960s?


Anonymous Josh August 23, 2013 1:08 PM  

The metro area is actually 21,690 sq km.

So it is sixty times larger than the city proper?

My goodness, you certainly have a knack for using your own numbers to destroy your position.

Anonymous Josh August 23, 2013 1:09 PM  

Barbie doll? I'd like to see you call me that to my face, punk.

Settle down, sugar tits

Anonymous Feh August 23, 2013 1:11 PM  

If you treated any ethnic group the way we treated blacks -- first enslaving and then coddling them -- you would wind up with a pretty messed-up ethnic culture.

So they're victims? Meh.


Pawns. Used consistently as a tool of factional political warfare by the Northeastern liberals against Southern conservatives since the early 1800s.

Northeastern liberals didn't (and still don't) give a damn how much damage the weapon suffered, so long as it could still be used to smash their enemies in the face. In fact, any damage the weapon suffers is blamed on their enemies, for having the temerity to resist.

Anonymous MendoScot August 23, 2013 1:12 PM  

I hadn't considered haggis as a weapon. It certainly isn't a foodstuff.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 1:12 PM  

Justthisguy...."I'm a Southern boy. Believe me. the Crooked Nigra Preacher meme is well known to us."

Richard Nixon was probably the most outspoken on this point. He frankly admitted that the key to getting the black vote in the South was with generous gifts to the black preachers. They came to expect new Cadillacs every four years.

But remember too, Nixon graduated from Duke University Law School (North Carolina) and he was the first to crack the solid Democrat South with his Southern Strategy. He was no stranger to how things work in the South. We could honestly say, it was Nixon more than anyone else who made the South into a Republican reboubt.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 1:16 PM  

MendoScot..."I hadn't considered haggis as a weapon. It certainly isn't a foodstuff."

Ha Ha. Haggis is not for everybody, ladie. I only see it anymore on Burns Night. Nobody ever seems to ask for a second plate. Such a shame.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 1:24 PM  

Ashley...."Or travel by some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in America every time you go to/from the airport on the Marta system? Or travel through those same neighborhoods to attend baseball games, football games, basketball games, or attend Georgia's most prestigious and exclusive universities?"

I spent a few days at GeorgiaTech back in 1972 and learned all I need to know about Atlanta. (I rather doubt it has improved since then.) I wandered up and down Peachtree Street and the sidewalks were packed solid with people, pushing and shoving. But aside from the campus itself, I never saw another white face the whole time I was there. This is far worse than Memphis or Little Rock or Raleigh or Nashville or Charlotte. Atlanta is what New Orleans would be like if there were no tourists.

Blogger Ashley August 23, 2013 1:31 PM  

@Josh:

You have to remember that the city proper of Atlanta is absolutely tiny compared to the metro area, so the city administration is limited in the damage they can do.
...
My goodness, you certainly have a knack for using your own numbers to destroy your position.


Actually, no. You haven't even addressed the core of my position, which is that you are wrong in saying "the city administration is limited in the damage they can do". What evidence do you have to support your position? Perhaps that North Forsythians have been fighting for years to escape the drag of Atlanta by re-creating the historical county of Milton and by incorporating new cities in northern Fulton county? Oh, wait, that would support my position.

Is a "city proper" 1/60th the size of the metro area, in a land-bound city that is not closely surrounded by other large cities unusual? You tell me, tough guy.


Anonymous MendoScot August 23, 2013 1:38 PM  

Ha Ha. Haggis is not for everybody, ladie. I only see it anymore on Burns Night. Nobody ever seems to ask for a second plate. Such a shame.

A second dram to wash the taste out of your mouth, definitely. Shame to waste the first one on the haggis. My strategy is to gargle with the first until the tastebuds go dead then wolf down the haggis before they recover.

Rabbie's ode to whisky is a sight better than the one to haggis.

Anonymous JI August 23, 2013 1:44 PM  

I hope the future of young white men is not to behave like young black men of the present.

Blogger Lawrence August 23, 2013 1:48 PM  

I hope the future of young white men is not to behave like young black men of the present.

Vox has said many times that it takes around a thousand years for an uncivilized people to become fully civilized. I wonder, however, what the timeline is for the reverse process. I suspect it is much faster.

Anonymous JoeyWheels August 23, 2013 2:04 PM  

I have always found the epithet "sugar tits"
hilarious.
I appreciate it's use muchly.

Anonymous The Shadowed Knight August 23, 2013 2:05 PM  

I was under the impression that tying someone to a cross was a much more brutal form. The nails weaken the the subject and bleed him, accelerating the process of death. When tied, the subject expires of suffocation when he can no longer support his body and his lungs cannot inflate. Until total muscular exhaustion and sleep deprivation overcome reflex and instinct, the subject is forced to push himself erect against the rope and crucifix, his only rest coming at the expense of his ability to breathe.

A pair of wooden supports or I-beams welded together and some tow straps and you have an inexpensive object lesson, which can be replaced whenever it reaches it's expiration date. Vibrants could be exchanged at any time, and monitored remotely to prevent unauthorized removal.

The Shadowed Knight

Anonymous Eric Ashley August 23, 2013 2:10 PM  

So, if the US attacks Russia, just because we can, that's a legitimate war?

My tentative view is that its a shame the Yankees won. I don't want the Lowland Planters to win either. But if the Appalachian Highlanders had won, that would have been good.

Anonymous Anonymous August 23, 2013 2:20 PM  

Appeasing vibrants appears to work just as well as a man appeasing a woman, for the same reasons: it's taken as a sign of weakness, which leads to increased disrespect and an escalation of hostilities.

In the case of the woman, she first bad-mouths you to her friends, then starts cussing you to her face. Eventually she declares her independence, while taking as much of your wealth as possible in the process.

With vibrants, we appear to be pretty well down that road: the cussing is out in the open now, but the divorce papers haven't been served yet because she's not done milking the credit cards, but she's getting close.

Anonymous Josh August 23, 2013 2:23 PM  

Is a "city proper" 1/60th the size of the metro area, in a land-bound city that is not closely surrounded by other large cities unusual? You tell me, tough guy.

Dallas 1/24
Nashville 1/12
Houston 1/16
San Antonio 1/16
Austin 1/16

Yes, it's unusual.

But do keep trying to use maths, sweetie, it's quite amusing.

Anonymous Gen. Kong August 23, 2013 2:35 PM  

Josh:
Is it just me, or do these stories seem to be happening most often outside of the South?

It's just you. Antonio Santiago, white toddler proto-rayciss-in-training, was shot between the eyes while in stroller by a couple of Holy Sons of Obama in Brunswick, Georgia. Fine Christian yootz out on a morning stroll (one of their uncles is preacher) who thankfully rid Allah's world of another proto-rayciss to avenge the martyrdom of St. Trayvon, Baron of Skittles and Earl of Arizona Watermelon Juice. Too yoot-full for death penalty of course, thanks to "conservative" Supreme Court imposition of "international standards". Celebrate die-versity, comrades!

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 2:50 PM  

Eric:

Not that simple in any way. In the first place, it was in 1861. You may have missed it, but the date now is much later. Someone check me on this; it's 2013, right? There has been both advancement and decay in international law, such that what we can or ought do now has no bearing on what was legitimate then. Then you could wage war for gain or interest; everyone did, to include those southern pacficists in Mexico, as part of the US. So, yes, certainly we could wage aggressive war in 1861. Why not? And that's leaving out the datum that the silly shits allowed themselves to be manipulated into firing first. This is not usually a good idea on the same continent as a power which has always had, at least since Monroe, a policy of not tolerating even the implied threat of a military rival in this hemisphere. Note, further that Russia in not in this hemisphere, unless there's been a lot of continental drift recently and I somehow missed it.

Anonymous Boris August 23, 2013 3:01 PM  

Contra the expectations of the multicultis and the anti-racists, the vibrant community is becoming less civilized as they become more numerous.

This is obviously false given the rates at which minority-offender violent crime is falling despite increasing population. You might want to look at actual data rather than anecdotal evidence.

Anonymous Feh August 23, 2013 3:02 PM  

"So, if the US attacks Russia, just because we can, that's a legitimate war?"

Well, the rules have changed a bit since 1845-1860.

Which ought to be obvious given that this was the century in which the Europeans subjugated most of the Earth.


Anonymous WaterBoy August 23, 2013 3:25 PM  

Boris: "This is obviously false given the rates at which minority-offender violent crime is falling despite increasing population."

Correlation is not causation. Could there possibly be other reasons why the crime rate is falling -- say that the prison incarceration rate is rising, maybe?

Being involuntarily locked up ≠ being civilized.

Anonymous gwood August 23, 2013 3:27 PM  

Good essay on conservatives and race here:
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/08/23/the-con-baiting-game/

Anonymous Anonymous August 23, 2013 4:00 PM  

Tom Kratman "Now maybe the evilwickedbadnaughtybadbadbad yankees had a time machine to do damage in 1864 in places they didn't actually reach until after the war but, if so, this is the first I've heard of it."


We just call 'em Damn Yankees and let it go at that. But evilwickedbadnaughtybadbadbad yankees does have a nice ring to it.


At any rate if the damn Yankees would have stayed North and left us alone there would have been peace and plenty in the South.


Remember, the South was the richest part of the U.S. and Mississippi was the richest State.


But the damn Yankees brought fire and brimstone South, destroyed the cities and agriculture. The Yankees waged war to destroy the ability of the South to feed herself and its industry located in her cities.


Granted it took Yankee Reconstruction to totally ruin the South and saddle it with debts which couldn't be paid off for over a 100 years. Virginia couldn't pay off its Reconstruction debts until 1950. And a large number of Southerners moved into the West.


There is some truth in what you say about agricultural production. The bulk of the Southern population were Scots-Irish, with a goodly number of Germans.


Scots-Irish farming was slash and burn farming. Wear the soil out and then move on. The Germans in the North and South built strong farms and farmsteads which produced large surpluses to feed others.


And don't forget that other Yankee gift to the U.S. -- mulattos -- by raping the heck out of the negresses wherever they could get their hands on them. Raped a lot of Southern white women too, but mostly the white Yankee officers kept them for themselves.

Blogger haus frau August 23, 2013 4:13 PM  

YIH
PROTIP: No matter how tempting that section 8 money seems, don't rent to vibrants - you WILL regret it!
and I would add, ask for a higher rent than the gong rent for similar accommodations in your neighborhood. Low rent attracts low rent people.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 4:36 PM  

It was not possible to leave the CSA alone even if the USA had wanted to. The CSA was a military threat, in this hemisphere, hence had to be eliminated. Nor could it be permitted to control the mouth of the Mississippi, period. Moreover, the south was never of one mind. Virtually ever seceded state had a minority that did NOT want to secede: "Yes and there were Union men..." The obligations of the USA to those did not end with secession. Moreover, the Constitution has no provisions for secession, even as it has a guarantee of a republican form of government. Given the way that most of the seceded states (not all, just most) were railroaded out by small cabals of the well to do and oligarchically corrupt, that established that future republican government would be a rather iffy proposition.

But the worst thing was that the men who causes secession were box-o-rocks stupid. All they had to do was wait, let Dred Scot run its course, which course made it impossible for a yankee state to actually forbid slavery (when we're talking states' rights, it's amazing how rarely that gets mentioned), and Massachusetts would have seceded...just as soon as SlavesRus showed up to unload ships in Boston. But noooo, the dumb motherfuckers had to start a war that began about the massive increase in federal power we groan under today.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 4:41 PM  

Oh, and there were buttloads of mulattos before the first shot was fired at Sumter. That's what one does with female slaves, after all, fuck them.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 4:42 PM  

caused, not causes. Crap.

Blogger cmate August 23, 2013 4:48 PM  

"And let's not forget that half-savage Vibrant American Antoinette Tuff, who talked down a white school shooter and...oh wait.

Decided not to cherry-pick that particular story, eh Vox?"

A quick look at crime statistics will show that YOU are covered with cherry pie.

Anonymous YIH August 23, 2013 5:21 PM  

@haus frau;
Point taken, though in the video the man remarks ''the government was paying over $1000 a month (with the tenant's share being $53)''.
There are more than a few places where $1000+ per month for a house is above average. His mistake was getting involved in section 8 at all!
With that program the only options are ''take whatever section 8 sends you'' or ''don't accept section 8 at all'' and it is looking like the ''at all'' choice is the next thing to go by the wayside.
Then his only option would be ''don't rent the unit out at all'' (which considering the damage, was clearly less risky).

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 5:36 PM  

This is obviously false given the rates at which minority-offender violent crime is falling despite increasing population.

And if all black men were in jail, the minority-offender violent crime rate would be zero!

Nine percent of black male Baby Boomers had been imprisoned by 2004, according to Bruce Western, a Harvard sociology professor. 20.7 percent of black men born in the 1970s had been imprisoned.

Blogger haus frau August 23, 2013 5:48 PM  

There are more than a few places where $1000+ per month for a house is above average. His mistake was getting involved in section 8 at all!


Right but I mean ask somewhat above the going rate of the particular neighborhood the house is in. Even if its just a $75 difference.

I %100 agree on Section 8. ON a previous post I recounted some of my parents troubles with S8 renters culminating in a disgruntled renter burning the house down. My house is probably a good $250 above the going rate of the neighborhood its in. It took nearly 3 months to rent it out but we finally got decent, married, non-student, non-vibrant renters. The problem with section 8 is the money isn't coming out of their pockets and so they couldn't care less about consequences.
If you think about, the official rent was $1000 but HER rent was only $53. $53 rent=low rent tenant.

Anonymous NWerner August 23, 2013 5:57 PM  

Until about twelve years ago there really were not many black people in Spokane. Most of them were either in the Air Force, going to school (Gonzaga, EWU, WSU, Whitworth, SCC, SFCC), or refugees (Ethiopian Christians and Somalis). The Somalis might have been an exception, but pretty much all the minorities in the Spokane area were regular, decent folks.

In the early 2000s black gangbangers started moving into the area. I remember this because about nine months later I saw a whole mess of fat blonde women with mulatto babies. That was the start of a fairly subtle demographic transition. The black gangs sold drugs and recruited white trash, who have gotten more violent and more dependent on drugs. The number of gangs and gangsters has exploded.

There are also a large number of Ukrainians and an organized crime presence. Spokane is a hotbed for sex trafficking (not to mention meth and theft of autos and copper wiring). Now even the Mexican cartels are establishing themselves in the area. It was only a matter of time. Parts of central Washington are Mexican majority.

Of course the legislature knows the answer to these problems: More diversity! They decided to make Eastern Washington University the place where they dump all the "First-Generation College Students." Say hello to thousands more ghetto blacks, illegal immigrant children, and Middle Easterners. Luckily these steps have been justified by the new Halal restaurants.

Anonymous Boris August 23, 2013 5:58 PM  

Could there possibly be other reasons why the crime rate is falling -- say that the prison incarceration rate is rising, maybe?

Your supposition is wrong since the incarceration rate for African-Americans dropped from 2000 to 2009.

The fact is, Vox went with his gut and heart on the issue and he's quite wrong. It's not true that the "vibrant community is becoming less civilized."


Anonymous Matt August 23, 2013 6:02 PM  

Your supposition is wrong since the incarceration rate for African-Americans dropped from 2000 to 2009.

I doubt prison stats have much to say about it one way or another. Those stats are goosed by the huge numbers of drug offenses, prosecution of which varies wildly both regionally and over time. Imprisonment going up or down doesn't necessarily say much about levels of civilization going up or down.

Anonymous YIH August 23, 2013 6:55 PM  

@haus frau:
A friend of mine who had inherited two three-unit apartment properties from her deceased brother was facing this issue. Because of her income and the financing on the properties she couldn't leave her late brother's unit vacant for long (3-4 months tops). He was the 'owner', and disabled (wheelchair bound) so his unit was remodeled specifically for someone in a motorized wheelchair.
Two months later, able-bodied or not, there were no takers. She got information on section 8 and thought ''I can get the rent I need and provide a home for someone who needs a place built for someone disabled, win-win!''. Poring through the paperwork, it became clear that she would not be allowed to say ''disabled (primary) tenant only'' or even screen the potential tenant(s) in any way at all! She chose not to involve herself in section 8, and I don't know what has happened since.

Anonymous Golf Pro August 23, 2013 7:10 PM  

"At any rate if the damn Yankees would have stayed North and left us alone there would have been peace and plenty in the South."

And if Tiger Woods hadn't gotten into the game of golf, the fat dudes wouldn't of had to waste time n the gym to keep up.

The fat golfers and the South just didn't understand things. If the South didn't want to face the consequences of war and get their pansy asses kicked, they should have backed off the minute the North said "Boo".

Anonymous Porky August 23, 2013 7:23 PM  

If I had a grandfather, he would look like Delbert Belton.

If Obama had a grandfather, he'd look like Delbert Benton.

Anonymous Grinder August 23, 2013 7:50 PM  

Jordan179 August 23, 2013 11:21 AM
Vox, I agree with you that American blacks are the problem -- but I believe that the problem is cultural rather than biological. For one thing, American blacks and whites are not genetically-distinct groups, due to extensive interbreeding over the last 350 years. For another thing, a half-century and more back, when there had been less interbreeding but also less white liberal attempts to "help" blacks, blacks were considerably less violent. I think the basic problem has been the breakdown of black families, encouraged by anti-family white liberals; coupled with white liberal refusal to clamp down hard on violent blacks (which had the added effect of demoralizing the many non-violent blacks).

If you treated any ethnic group the way we treated blacks -- first enslaving and then coddling them -- you would wind up with a pretty messed-up ethnic culture.


Ok, whatever. So what is the solution in your opinion? I don't think it makes a difference to know what the exact motivations of such blacks.

Anonymous Grinder August 23, 2013 8:02 PM  

Another couple hundred posts of people talking in circles. How about giving your opinions on what should be done? What about Vox's possible scenarios of peaceful segregation or violent race war? I am in favour of peace and racial segregation with the specific condition of an all-white North America. Africa for blacks. America for whites. Where do the rest of you stand? If you support re-segregation, even in the case of a partition of states in the US you do understand that it includes all blacks, even the good ones, right?
Is doing nothing an acceptable solution for you? Do you think that things will improve in time or worsen if nothing is done differently now? I am especially interested in anyone who thinks things will improve in explaining their reasoning.

Anonymous VD August 23, 2013 8:11 PM  

The fact is, Vox went with his gut and heart on the issue and he's quite wrong. It's not true that the "vibrant community is becoming less civilized."

Right, because vibrant legitimacy rates are rising, vibrant marital rates are rising, and more vibrants are working and starting legal businesses than ever before.

And Detroit is the shining example for tomorrow's urban civilization.

Anonymous Porky? August 23, 2013 8:44 PM  

What is the metric for "civilization"?

Is it really marriage rates, legitimacy rates, employment rates, and business license applications?

Anonymous Boris August 23, 2013 8:50 PM  

That's quite a hefty goal-post shift. Although, by those measures whites are also becoming less "civilized."

Anonymous Sigyn August 23, 2013 9:15 PM  

I am in favour of peace and racial segregation with the specific condition of an all-white North America.

By what right do you claim North America rather than, say, Europe?

Anonymous WaterBoy August 23, 2013 9:20 PM  

Boris: "Your supposition is wrong since the incarceration rate for African-Americans dropped from 2000 to 2009."

That's a misleading statement. There was an overall drop from 2000 to 2009, but the downward trend didn't actually start until 2006 (it increased each year before that), and has seen as many years with an increase as there have been decreases since then (2 each). For the "civilization effect" theory to hold, there would need to be a consistent drop to match the crime rate drop, and that just isn't the case.

Anonymous J August 23, 2013 9:26 PM  

Moreover, the south was never of one mind. Virtually ever seceded state had a minority that did NOT want to secede: "Yes and there were Union men..." The obligations of the USA to those did not end with secession.

The British colonies in the 1770s were not of one mind. Every colony had a LARGE minority (even a majority) that did NOT want to secede. The obligations of Britain to these people did not end with the Revolution... except ultimately they did, because the British lost interest in them after Britain lost on the battlefield. Had the South won on the battlefield, the pro-Union southern population would have to emigrate or just suck it up (like American Tories did after 1783).

Moreover, the Constitution has no provisions for secession,

The British constitution in the 1770s had no provisions for secession. This legal concern... pretty much became moot when Britain lost on the battlefield. Had the South won on the battlefield, the legality of their secession would also be a moot point.

Given the way that most of the seceded states (not all, just most) were railroaded out by small cabals of the well to do and oligarchically corrupt,

The Founding Fathers... also a small cabal of the well to do. Aided by foreigners, to boot.

I'm trying to think of examples of successful revolutions / secessions that were NOT run by small cabals. None of the Commies ones, at any rate.

Anonymous El ZInky Pinky August 23, 2013 9:30 PM  

To be fair, just because some of an ethnic group engage in (very) bad behavior doesn't mean all will. Sadly, it seems a disproportionate amount are. Yet if this man was a veteran, why wasn't he CCW?

Anonymous nick digger August 23, 2013 9:36 PM  

You want a solution? Stop forcing the productive members of society to subsidize the existence of the unproductive.

Stop forcing us to feed them.
Stop forcing us to house them.
Stop forcing us to heal them.
Stop forcing us to hire them.
Stop forcing us to promote them.
Stop forcing us to serve them.

From that point forward, nature will sort things out.

Or, we can go the other route: Continue funding the proliferation of a malevolent species, displace them into previously-homogeneous cities where they will surely be incompatible, and let nature sort it out the other way.

Either way, it's going to be ugly. Fuckit.

Anonymous nick digger August 23, 2013 9:47 PM  

"if this man was a veteran, why wasn't he CCW?"

Many 88-yr olds are lucky not to be wearing diapers. It is highly doubtful a man that age would have the reaction times and dexterity to beat a pair of teenaged groids to the punch, unless he was in a state of constant zombie-awareness.

And, to be fair, the "good ones" of their species always side with their "good boy" criminal, when the casualty is a non-Negro. To hell with all of them.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 9:55 PM  

J...."The British colonies in the 1770s were not of one mind. Every colony had a LARGE minority (even a majority) that did NOT want to secede. The obligations of Britain to these people did not end with the Revolution... except ultimately they did, because the British lost interest in them after Britain lost on the battlefield."

Only 13 of the colonies in British North America joined the rebellion. It was more than a year after the beginning of the shooting war that the rebellion declared independence.

No, they did not lose interest. Many fled to the colonies that had not joined the rebellion, in Canada or the islands in the Carribean. Tens of thousands were evacuated by the Royal Navy. (Remember, at the end of the war, the British still held every major American seaport. The military "victory" did not drive them out.)

Tom Kratman...."Moreover, the Constitution has no provisions for secession,"

Nor is secession prohibited, nor was there any provision made for the Constitution to replace the Articles of Confederation, but there have been a number of amendments to the Constitution, some of which profoundly change the nature of government.

What we do have is recognition by the Founders in the Declaration of Independence: "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Seems clear to me.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 9:58 PM  

Indeed, yes, many Tories fled, J. Some of these, apparently, were my ancestors who fled to New Carlisle, Quebec. So what? We did not have any obligation to Unionists down south because the UK failed to win for Tories here? I'd be interested in hearing that argument in some detail.

And, yes, J, even Lincoln recognized the right of successful revolution. Again, so what? As everyone knows, Silent leges inter arma. Are you arguing that because Britain lost the United States was barred from trying? I am not sure where I said that small cabals were particularly unusual. They are not. They are also not, however, notably republican and especially not down south at that time.

You might not have noticed, but the American Revolution was not any such thing. It was a counter-revolution against a Parliament grown grasping and which was trying to unilaterally change the deal. As such, I wouldn't say that our counter-revolution grew out of a small cabal, even if the colonies sent small cabals to represent themselves in Congress.

Hmmm...you know, the more I think about it the more I think you have never really given any thought to the timeline of the American so-called Revolution and southern secession.

Anonymous geoff August 23, 2013 10:04 PM  

it was genius or insane luck...great point man

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:07 PM  

No, secession is not prohibited by the constitution. In what way does that authorize it? Conversely, Lincoln and all presidents are tasked, under the constitution, to see that the laws be faithfully executed (Art. II, section 3). How they are to do this in territory admitted to the United States, when said territory has seceded, rather baffles me. Neither does it say, "The president shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed except in cases where southern states shall, in a snit, secede," though perhaps I just missed that clause.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 10:08 PM  

Tom Kratman.....You seem to be under the impression that the Constitutional guarantee of republican government means democracy. The Founders were hardly in favor of popular democracy or universal suffrage. The voting francise was reserved for landowners....not Indians, not blacks, not foreigners, not the "landless masses" (Jefferson) who lived in cities.

Anonymous J August 23, 2013 10:10 PM  

"No, they did not lose interest."

I interpreted his statement "The obligations of the USA to those did not end with secession" to mean that if the Civil War had not immediately erupted, the "oppressed minority" Unionists would have been such a nagging sore in Union-Confederate relations that a war would have erupted eventually anyway.

In the case of the Loyalists, the vast majority (~90%) of them did not emigrate, and the British washed their hands of any obligation to the ones that stayed. The ones that emigrated were treated pretty shabbily. It pretty much meets my definition of Britain losing interest in them.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:10 PM  

But, Don, it's still really simple. Either secession was legal or it was not. If legal, then the south formed a sovereign nation, which the equally sovereign United States could certainly legitimately attack, for gain, or just to eliminate a potential threat. If it was illegal, then there is no question but that the US could put down the rebellion.

"Seems clear to me."

Anonymous The other skeptic August 23, 2013 10:11 PM  

Boris believes in proof by assertion:

Your supposition is wrong since the incarceration rate for African-Americans dropped from 2000 to 2009.

I see that no evidence for that was provided.

So, what you are telling us is that America is not the cesspool of structural racism that you and your kind have been claiming.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:14 PM  

Not really. The war was probably inevitable at some point, yes, and they'd likely have exacerbated it, but not caused it. That does not mean, however, that with a secession that the USA deemed illegitimate that its obligations to watch out for those who were still loyal and faithful citizens of the US ended.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:17 PM  

Don't believe I used the word democracy at all. Hmmm..I am sure I'd have felt my fingers typing the word if I had.

No, republican government is expressly NOT democracy, and I cannot think of anything I have _ever_ written to suggest otherwise.

Anonymous J August 23, 2013 10:18 PM  

"We did not have any obligation to Unionists down south because the UK failed to win for Tories here?"

We need to clarify the scenario.

If the Confederacy peacefully secedes, or wins independence in the Civil War, then the Union's obligation to Unionists down South becomes a moot point just like the British concern for the Loyalists became a moot point after 1783.

"Are you arguing that because Britain lost the United States was barred from trying?"

Nope. Just noting that the "legality" of secession under the Constitution was a moot point, since it would be decided on the battlefield just like the legality of the Revolutionary War was decided on the battlefield. When treason prosper, none dare call it treason, and all that.

"I am not sure where I said that small cabals were particularly unusual."

There seemed to be a tone of derision about the Southern cabal. They don't seem unusually heinous to me in historical terms.

"You might not have noticed, but the American Revolution was not any such thing. It was a counter-revolution against a Parliament grown grasping and which was trying to unilaterally change the deal."

Actually, I don't agree at all. Britain was by no means tyrannizing the colonies, and the colonies were the ones trying to change the deal. The wrongs were either imaginary or blown all out of proportion by the small colonial cabal bent on independence.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:26 PM  

Oh, I have considerable contempt for the group that - in one of history's truly rare and successful conspiracies - split the democrats, thus ensuring Lincoln's election, knowing and intending that that would enrage South Carolina (only two states wanted a war, SC and Massachusetts) into secession, thereby panicking the others into going along, and doing so with sublime faith in their inevitable victory, which faith was almost totally unjustified.

Again, that timeline. No, we had an existing arrangement whereby we tried our own criminals, we voted taxes to support the crown when asked, and generally gave more than asked, and we were otherwise left pretty much alone to rule ourselves. It was that arrangement that Parliament was trying to change, through direct taxation, through carting criminal defendants off for trial in the UK, and without any obvious end point of change that we were sure we could live with. That's where the trouble began and the war began. Later on goals changed, as they often so, but that was later on. I wouldn't - and didn't - say that was necessarily tyranny. I would and did say that Parliament was engaged in revolutionary change to the prior arrangement, while we, in rebelling, were engaged in counter-revolution.

Anonymous The other skeptic August 23, 2013 10:29 PM  

Actually, I don't agree at all. Britain was by no means tyrannizing the colonies, and the colonies were the ones trying to change the deal. The wrongs were either imaginary or blown all out of proportion by the small colonial cabal bent on independence.

I did think it interesting that Gage was a participant in Kratman's "State of Disobedience." Great title, as well, and relevant to this discussion. (As an aside, I found it interesting that William Forstchen could get two, or was it three, book titles out of the Battle Hymn of the Republic.)

I suspect that a couple hundred years of benign neglect of the colonies by the British (because they were preoccupied with the French, and needed the colonists to help supply their efforts against the French) meant that culturally the colonists and the British had grown so far apart that they could not be held together.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:31 PM  

That, by the way, wasn't all the Brits did. Both the declaration and the bill of right read as laundry lists of behavior we found thoroughly un-English and totally intolerable.

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:38 PM  

Well, ToS, it's not like the Brits didn't have some legitimate arguments for the changes they were trying to impose. What they didn't have was a way to get what they wanted that wouldn't drive us to rebellion.

By the way, there was an aspect to the "revolution" that I really didn't understand until I was attached to the Brit Marine's 29 Commando Regiment (artillery types). 29 CDO had a major, one David McQueeg-Jones, who detested Americans and made no bones about it. An arrogant son of a bitch and stupid as the arrogant so often are. Stupid? It is unwise to piss off the people who provide most of your logistic support. It is also unwise to piss off people who are both vindictive and imaginative. Ere we all parted company, we had 29 CDO referring to him as, "The man with two fathers." Insert Brit accent with falsetto: "Was it George McQueeg or was it 'arry Jones? Well I'm really not quite sure, so we'll just name little David for both of them."

Anonymous DonReynolds August 23, 2013 10:38 PM  

Tom Kratman..."No, secession is not prohibited by the constitution. In what way does that authorize it?"

THAT is the difference between the law in Western Civilization and the law in Eastern Civilization. In western legal tradition, the law proscribes certain behaviors or acts, to wit, "thou shalt not". Anything not prohibited is permitted. It is called a free society. (Conversely, the legal tradition in the East prescribes behaviors, in that it requires behaviors.)

Anytime there is no regulation or law prohibiting an activity or behavior or requiring such act to be done a certain way, then the law is silent....it is UNREGULATED. You seem to believe unless the law expressly grants permission or regulates an act, it is not allowed or permitted. That is not the historical experience in this country.

Tom Kratman..."Conversely, Lincoln and all presidents are tasked, under the constitution, to see that the laws be faithfully executed (Art. II, section 3). How they are to do this in territory admitted to the United States, when said territory has seceded, rather baffles me."

I hope you are not baffled by the difference between a state and a US territory. US territory may (or may not) later become a state, but in the meantime, US territory is administred according to Federal law. The District of Columbia is a special territory of the US and lesser territories are held, often in trust, with little expectation that said territory will ever become a state.

Tom Kratman...."Neither does it say, "The president shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed except in cases where southern states shall, in a snit, secede," though perhaps I just missed that clause."

Not many people are going to be moved by the inability of the President to execute the laws of the United States when Obama had demonstrated that he can pick and choose which ones he likes and ignore the ones he does not like.

The Federal government during (and after) the Civil War did not pretend that their actions were consistent with the US Constitution and on a number of specific items, the US Supreme Court countered those actions later, including the suspension of the right of habeas corpus, the taking of private property without due compensation, the creation of West Virginia as a state, the recognition of Unionist state governments in states that never seceeded, the READMISSION of all Confederate states after the Civil War (which is a direct admission that such states had actually seceeded), and the blanket ban of all persons who served the Confederacy (military or civil) from voting or holding public office. (This could be a very long list, but these are some examples.)

Anonymous The other skeptic August 23, 2013 10:44 PM  

Apropos of nothing, I wonder if the DHS will have its own M777s?

Blogger Tom Kratman August 23, 2013 10:45 PM  

When you're talking a matter of procedure I don't think that works. But even so, it makes not a bit of difference. See comments to that effect, above.

No, I use territory in the broadest sense. Land. Area. Irrespective of the legal relationship. It should have been clear, though, with the phrase "Admitted to the United States" that it included states.

What does it matter what Obama does or doesn't do to what Lincoln was legally compelled to do? Is it that time machine thing again?

And, again, speaking of time, what the war ended up as bears no necessary relationship to its inevitability or legality. You can lay out any laundry list of horrors you like of things that happened after the event. So what? Because some pols in 1865 demanded X Lincoln, because he obviously had a time machine, was barred in 1861 from Y?

Anonymous The other skeptic August 23, 2013 10:56 PM  

Speaking of Arrogance in the face of an enemy the Brits did not do so well that day.

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