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Wednesday, September 04, 2013

Al Qaida's air force

Karl Denninger correctly sums up the upcoming Syrian misadventure in his customarily reserved manner:
Obama is spouting off from the ass once again in Sweden. Every time this buttclown, McStain, Graham or the others open their mouths (or McStain plays poker during the Senate hearing yesterday) they continue to obfuscate and ignore the bottom line:
A military strike at Assad's government IS ACTING AS AL QAIDA'S AIR FORCE.

The rest of this debate is arm-waving.

A military strike at Assad's government IS ACTING AS AL QAIDA'S AIR FORCE.

Al Qaida is a sworn enemy of the United States.  The United States has ratified their statement of being our enemy through more than 10 years of continual declaration of a "state of emergency" citing the so-called "war on terror." It is an act of Treason according to our Constitution to provide material aid and comfort to a sworn enemy of our nation.

A military strike at Assad's government IS ACTING AS AL QAIDA'S AIR FORCE.
To be honest, it's hard to argue with either his argument or his conclusions.  Meanwhile, the leading House Republicans are busy demonstrating that while attacking Syria is clearly not in either the national interest or the party's interest, the decisive factor appears to be that they see it as being in Israel's interest.  Consider Eric Cantor's statement that he'll vote to authorize the use of military force against Syria no matter what the authorizing language happens to be.

"I intend to vote to provide the President of the United States the option to use military force in Syria. While the authorizing language will likely change, the underlying reality will not. America has a compelling national security interest to prevent and respond to the use of weapons of mass destruction, especially by a terrorist state such as Syria, and to prevent further instability in a region of vital interest to the United States."

That is a total lie.  America has no "compelling national security interest" in Syria, especially since there are reports that the weapons came from Saudi Arabia and were set off accidentally by the Al Qaida rebels.  And seriously, what are the chances that launching missiles, or worse, invading, is going to reduce, let alone prevent, further instability in the Middle East?

It's probably a good thing this didn't happen in the late 1970s. I can't even imagine how many Hal Lindsay readers would be convinced that the end of the world was approaching.

Labels:

233 Comments:

1 – 200 of 233 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous ZhukovG September 04, 2013 1:04 PM  

I suppose it could be the beginning of the end, but not the one the Hal Lindseyites were hoping for.

Anonymous outneoconned September 04, 2013 1:07 PM  

Don't worry. The anti-war movement will stop this.

Blogger Scott Laughlin September 04, 2013 1:10 PM  

Are we opening up a discussion on end times? Lets go for it!

But specifically regarding the issue at hand:

If you need help figuring out what is going on in Syria (and the rest of the Mid-East) realise: we are in a proxy war with Iran at the moment. For legitimate reasons that are certainly debatable, we are waging that proxy war on behalf of two political allies in the region, Saudi Arabia and Israel. Arguing about the gas release, who did it and whether it violated international law or who it benefited is tangential to what the real debate should be – how do we respond to Iranian usage of WMD by proxy and Iran’s threats to Saudi Arabia and Israel? If you can’t address those concerns you are just falling for obfuscation tactics used to complicate the issue.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein September 04, 2013 1:14 PM  

@Scott Laughlin
Shouldn't the Saudis and the Israelis have the money and brainpower to handle this themselves?

OpenID malcolmthecynic September 04, 2013 1:15 PM  

Vox, I've never agreed with you on EVERYTHING but I think you've really been right on with this.

And meanwhile we have Obama speaking out of both sides of his mouth. "Don't worry! Of course I'll ask Congress, haha. It's just, you know, I don't ACTUALLY think they have any power to stop me. But hey, I'll ask!"

Say what you will about the war in Iraq, but Congress was very much in favor of it.

Blogger Giraffe September 04, 2013 1:22 PM  

Killing Arabs is fun and all but we have more pressing issues.

Anonymous DonReynolds September 04, 2013 1:27 PM  

I wish all the NeoCons would get cancer of the eyes and die quickly, most especially the RINO variety. Unfortunately, that is not likely to happen anytime soon. But if they are all hot for getting involved in a war (with Syria, with Iran), they are welcome to go there as volunteers and participate to their heart's content. Now if they are simply noisy chickenhawks, they need to be ignored as such.

There is NO vital American interests in Syria and there never has been.

Blogger Jordan179 September 04, 2013 1:28 PM  

How is it in Israel's interest to have Al Qaeda running a bordering state? If I really thought it was in Israel's interest, I'd be much happier about this war ... since Israel is our main ally in the region, a stronger Israel would be good for America!

Unfortunately, I think that if this winds up being in Israel's interest it will only be in some very indirect silver-lining sort of manner, such as an AQ-controlled Syria attacking Israel, and the war ending with Israel finally deciding enough was enough and formally annexing the Golan Heights and the southern tip of Lebanon, and driving out the natives.

Anonymous Schnoorky September 04, 2013 1:29 PM  

USA FedGov should just be done with it and declare Israel the 51st state and move the capital of Jerusalem. Then we could at least have a little bit of respect for FedGov functionaries when they say such crap as "it's in the USA's best interest to blah, blah, blah".

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater September 04, 2013 1:31 PM  

Cindy Sheehan will save us!

No blood for hummus!

Anonymous outneoconned September 04, 2013 1:32 PM  

ha ha ha. Yup, it's all Isreal and the neocon's fault. Guys like McCain and John Bolton are using their JEWpowers to mind control Barry & Co. You see, the GOP and neocons are secretly pro-war while pretending to be "anti-war" while the Left and Democrats are really anti-ware but only APPEARING to be "pro-hawks." War is peace, we've always been at war with East Asia.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 04, 2013 1:34 PM  

I would say that supporting that godless, socialist, police state that presumes to use the name of Israel has been disastrously negative for the United States.

Anonymous MendoScot September 04, 2013 1:36 PM  

Perhaps the military types around here could correct me, but if the "limited strike" being mooted is ship-launched tomahawks, wouldn't that be acting as Al Qaida's Navy?

Blogger Scott Laughlin September 04, 2013 1:36 PM  

Tonto,

You are absolutely correct and I agree with your underlying implication that they should take care of it. For the US we should arm Israel to the teeth and drill for oil in North America then cut loose the Saudis.

Anonymous outneoconned September 04, 2013 1:39 PM  

If I was worried about specific godless, socialist, police states... Nevermind. This is just crazy jewspeak. USA USA USA!

Anonymous Drew_Deuces September 04, 2013 1:40 PM  

Flag on the field:

Unnecessary roughness against Hal Lindsey.

Blogger River Cocytus September 04, 2013 1:40 PM  

This isn't even in Israel's best interest. You see them crouching behind their Iron Dome? Overall I think the Saud stand to gain the most from this. I guess its a little quid quo pro for our shale-oil-gas boom.

Anonymous BluntForceTrauma September 04, 2013 1:41 PM  

I know I WAS convinced, after reading "The Late, Great Planet Earth," that the world would end around 1982.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 04, 2013 1:45 PM  

@outneoconned

I have to admit, when I said "godless, socialist, police state", I realized I was describing much more than a patch of waterfront property in the eastern Med.

Anonymous Eric Ashley September 04, 2013 1:46 PM  

Scott Laughlin for Secretary of State!

=================
Of course, I support Israel. They are actually civilized compared to the death cultists, totalitarian false prophets, and barbarian tribes that surround them.

Anonymous patrick kelly September 04, 2013 1:48 PM  

It's not as simple as cutting loose from Saudi oil. We have enough petroleum based fuel in NA, we already import much of it from Canada. The problem is if the Saudis and the rest of the world decouple their oil market from the US dollar use as the "petro-dollar". Very interesting times to say the least if that happens.

FWIW I'm against bombing Syrians in response to gassing them.



Anonymous Eric Ashley September 04, 2013 1:50 PM  

That said, I'm still going to tell them that Jesus is their Messiah.

Blogger Scott Laughlin September 04, 2013 1:50 PM  

Tonto,

You are absolutely correct and I agree with your underlying implication that they should take care of it. For the US we should arm Israel to the teeth and drill for oil in North America then cut loose the Saudis.

Anonymous patrick kelly September 04, 2013 1:52 PM  

@BFT:"I know I WAS convinced, after reading "The Late, Great Planet Earth," that the world would end around 1982."

I was conviced I could not longer be a Baptist. (Yeah I know, NABALT, but all the ones I grew up with or know now still consider the Lindsey/Hunt/False-prophet-of-the-hour exegesis as gospel..)

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 1:55 PM  

I have a tract somewhere titled "88 reasons the rapture will happen in 1988"

Anonymous Mr. Stubby September 04, 2013 1:56 PM  

Sure it has a national security interest. More pipelines and who controls them. Has been from the beginning. They even told you. But all you want to see is Al CIAda.

Blogger JartStar September 04, 2013 1:57 PM  

I don't see it happening, but if Congress votes no then Obama's presidency is finished. Of course maybe he secretly hopes for that outcome.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 04, 2013 2:00 PM  

How is it in Israel's interest to have Al Qaeda running a bordering state?

Nobody else in power can tell their exit ramp from a hole in the ground when it comes to making smart long-term choices, why should the folks running Israel be any different?

Blogger RobertT September 04, 2013 2:02 PM  

in case anyone missed it, left wing progressives are hawks and right wing alphas are doves. (mealy mouthed senators always side with whoever will have them). the next thing to expect is for the right wing to don flowers and tie dies and demonstrate in the streets while left wing progressives in nazi uniforms gun them down. aka Kent State retro. so what's going on? is this a visceral exposure of their true nature? or ??? or just an aberration?

Blogger Scott Laughlin September 04, 2013 2:02 PM  

Are we attacking Hal Lindsey or pre-trib, pre-millennial eschatology? The eschatology I can defend, Hal Lindsey can defend himself. But I like Drew's comment, it was an unnecessary shot by Vox.

Blogger Conscientia Republicae September 04, 2013 2:14 PM  

Unnecessary is what made it so fun.

Anonymous Orville September 04, 2013 2:15 PM  

Do you feel lucky? Well do you?

Another game of nuclear chicken with Russia/China, and I'm wondering who will blink this time. My money is not on that punk Obumble.

End Times? Don't know, but it does look possible for the end of America. I feel like I'm back in the 70's cold war, duck and cover mode.

Anonymous RINO September 04, 2013 2:17 PM  

Are we also the Kurd's air force? Some of them are part of the opposition.

Anonymous fnn September 04, 2013 2:18 PM  

Sure it has a national security interest. More pipelines and who controls them. Has been from the beginning. They even told you. But all you want to see is Al CIAda.

Why does it matter if Europe gets the oil from Iran instead of KSA?

Anonymous boomer September 04, 2013 2:18 PM  

This whole Syria thing is nothing but a distraction. Its to get the media an the citizens of the USA mind off the corruption that is going on in the USA. Yes the NSA IRS stories will just fade away because we have a very important war.

Syria has some very high tech submarines they purchased from Russia. they are extremely hard to detect. one of these could sink over two dozen US war ships. How much does an aircraft carrier cost? How many soles will be lost?


Anonymous frenchy September 04, 2013 2:18 PM  

we acted as someone else's air force in Afghanistan as well.

sad how we never learn.

Anonymous ZT September 04, 2013 2:21 PM  

If they do the air strike then I hope every single person involved and every voting member of congress that says "yes" are charged with treason for aiding the terrorist organization Al Qaeda.

Anonymous allyn71 September 04, 2013 2:23 PM  

"There is NO vital American interests in Syria and there never has been." - DonReynolds September 04, 2013 1:27 PM

The Saudi's would say otherwise.


"The problem is if the Saudis and the rest of the world decouple their oil market from the US dollar use as the "petro-dollar". Very interesting times to say the least if that happens." - patrick kelly September 04, 2013 1:48 PM

Winner, Winner! The world reserve status of the dollar rests on the petrodollar, that is why there is a "vital national interst" in Syria. Saudi and Quatar want there NatGas pipeline and Assad is in the way. That is why this is such a potential problem, Russia doesn't want the competition and Quatar and Saudi Arabia want to muscle in. Gang turf war on a geopolitical scale.



Anonymous Gen. Kong September 04, 2013 2:26 PM  

Don Reynolds:
I wish all the NeoCons would get cancer of the eyes and die quickly, most especially the RINO variety.

You're far too softhearted. Why would you ever want their demise to pass quickly? Slower is much better - preferably something nice and slow, with lots of boiling oil. The screams could be music to our ears for months on end. Of course one can appreciate a quicker dispatch to their eternal reward if done in the classic Vlad Tepes manner.

Anonymous paradox September 04, 2013 2:27 PM  

I can't even imagine how many Hal Lindsay readers would be convinced that the end of the world was approaching.


Ha! Hal Lindsay readers are nothing compared to Jack Van Impe viewers. Van Impe is king of the dispensalists... makes Lindsay look like an amateur at his own game.

I'm sure my local Israeli Embassy(aka Christian book store)will have a Van Impe DVD sale, with Israeli teddy bears and Israeli flags.

Anonymous Sigyn September 04, 2013 2:28 PM  

Nobody else in power can tell their exit ramp from a hole in the ground when it comes to making smart long-term choices, why should the folks running Israel be any different?

Israel is behind this because...because stupid!

Orly?

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 2:28 PM  

How many soles will be lost?

If you have 5000 sailors on a carrier and each sailor has three pairs of shoes, about 90000

Anonymous Sigyn September 04, 2013 2:30 PM  

This whole Syria thing is nothing but a distraction. Its to get the media an the citizens of the USA mind off the corruption that is going on in the USA. Yes the NSA IRS stories will just fade away because we have a very important war.

Now THIS I can get behind.

How many soles will be lost?

People who type "soles" for "souls" should be drug out in the street and shod.

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 2:33 PM  

Israel is behind this because...because stupid!

Orly?


Yes

Behind an official wall of silence, Israel is signaling it wants the U.S. to strike Syria sooner rather than later, fearing that continued inaction could hurt American credibility in the region.

Anonymous NateM September 04, 2013 2:35 PM  

Boomer-"how many soles"

Well let's see, 2 for every sailor...

And which subs were these that they purchased? My understanding was most of the old hardware they sold to the 'rabs was old cold war era crap, like the tanks the Iraqis used in gulf war I

Anonymous VD September 04, 2013 2:39 PM  

it was an unnecessary shot by Vox.

There are no unnecessary shots. You are forgetting the Self-Amusement Imperative.

Anonymous Heh September 04, 2013 2:40 PM  

It's probably a good thing this didn't happen in the late 1970s.

It wouldn't have happened then because we couldn't bitch slap Russia's client states (Iraq, Libya, Syria) with impunity back then.

we are in a proxy war with Iran at the moment.

With Russia, not Iran. Iran is just another Russian client state.

Anonymous Sigyn September 04, 2013 2:40 PM  

So, Josh, it's a massive fitness test by Israel?

Anonymous Gen. Kong September 04, 2013 2:45 PM  

Josh:
If you have 5000 sailors on a carrier and each sailor has three pairs of shoes, about 90000.

True, but you're forgetting about the fish (fillet of sole). Losses could go into the millions. PETA babes will cry.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 04, 2013 2:48 PM  

How many soles will be lost?

While the ecological implications of military action in the eastern Med. are dire. I don't think the sole is a very common fish in that region.

Blogger RobertT September 04, 2013 2:50 PM  

"his customarily reserved manner"

Yeah, there's nothing combustive about KD. I've tried to follow his blog, and the catholic lady who is fighting with the IRS. They both have good points but they're so repetitive they can't hold my attention. I've never found another blog besides this one that I actually check out every single day since I first found it. I go through blogs like old balls at batting practice. But not this one. Somehow this one manages to hold my attention. I hope you figure out a way to ride this to fame and fortune, or if you're like me, at least fortune. It would leave a gap in my life if you quit.

Blogger Conscientia Republicae September 04, 2013 2:50 PM  

...and feel the need to pose naked more often?

Anonymous boomer September 04, 2013 2:53 PM  

NateM

These our new subs that Russia has been selling. They are designed for coastal waters, Have a range of 6000nm can go to a depth 1000ft and stay under for 45 days. The US navy is worried about them. Because they are so quiet. Amur 1650 Russian sub

Anonymous RINO September 04, 2013 2:53 PM  

The real question: Is this treason if America runs Al'Qaeda?

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 2:54 PM  

So, Josh, it's a massive fitness test by Israel?

Perhaps in the sense of "let's you and him fight"

“Israel, like any American ally in the Middle East, needs America to have credibility, and deterrent credibility in the Middle East,” said Goldberg, who added that Israel is worried if the U.S. doesn’t strike Syria, the Iranians will interpret the inaction as President Barack Obama being incapable of intervening militarily in the region, and will build a nuclear weapon.

The Israelis are not the good guys.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 04, 2013 3:01 PM  

I don't think any Amur 1650's have been launched yet.

Anonymous Lysander Spooner September 04, 2013 3:03 PM  

The 2,500,000 Syrian Christians will receive a death sentence from Barry and the other treasonous murders that support an attack on Syria.

Blogger Scott Laughlin September 04, 2013 3:05 PM  

boomer,

do you have a source on your statement that Syria has some high tech submarines that they purchased from Russia? I had not heard that and can't find confirmation using a cursory search?

Blogger James Dixon September 04, 2013 3:08 PM  

> Shouldn't the Saudis and the Israelis have the money and brainpower to handle this themselves?

Sure. But why would they want to do that when they can get us to do it for them?

Anonymous stats79 September 04, 2013 3:15 PM  

How is it in Israel's interest to have Al Qaeda running a bordering state? If I really thought it was in Israel's interest, I'd be much happier about this war ... since Israel is our main ally in the region, a stronger Israel would be good for America!

Doesn't matter that you didn't get the memo. This from Wikipedia: A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (commonly known as the "Clean Break" report) is a policy document that was prepared in 1996 by a study group led by Richard Perle for Benjamin Netanyahu, the then Prime Minister of Israel.[1] The report explained a new approach to solving Israel's security problems in the Middle East with an emphasis on "Western values". It has since been criticized for advocating an aggressive new policy including the removal of Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, and the containment of Syria by engaging in proxy warfare and highlighting their possession of "weapons of mass destruction".

Fucking idiots. Israel told us years ago what their plans were. Now they are coming to fruition. And all you idiots can do is continue to make excuses for the little terrorist state. Israel is fucking evil and should be destroyed.

Blogger Scott Laughlin September 04, 2013 3:22 PM  

I stand with Israel and don't hide behind a screen pseudonym.

Anonymous Laz September 04, 2013 3:29 PM  

"And seriously, what are the chances that launching missiles... is going to reduce, let alone prevent, further instability in the Middle East?"

I seem to remember a certain sex fiend ex-prez who did this exact same thing to deflect from all the scandals. I also remember that same prez's mamby-pamby foreign policy allowed 9/11 to happen. And yes, 9/11 probably would have still happened but, taking down Hussein in the late 90's (when he actually might have had WMDs) would have made it that much harder.

The other posters are right, this is just smoke and mirrors.

Anonymous BillB September 04, 2013 3:31 PM  

Please point me to the clause "compelling national interest" in the Constitution. Oh, that's right. You can't because it doesn't exist. Someone pulled the phrase right out their arse.

First the US are not and have never been a nation. Only the ignorati still believe that lie. The US are a Union and the sole authority of the Union is to provide for the common defence of the 50 nation states that comprise the Union. AND that defence is limited to the geographical area of the 50 nation states. Of course I'm naive. BUT I'm hawkishly naive. Anyone make any step toward any of the United States and I'd glass their freakin country in the blink of an eye.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 3:33 PM  

None of this addresses the root cause . . . hiding behind "dictatorships" that the USA set up, is the height of hypocrisy.

Syria, Iraq, Libya and Iran went off the US "petro-dollar." That meant the various Feds - Europe and here, were pissed. Since nary a war is fought without their "dollars" (at a pleasant interest rate), there can be no different outcome.,

As we in America have learned, quite painfully, the bankers will get their money at whatever cost. They can blow out homeowners, small banks, countries - whomever - and not one has been called to task - legally or otherwise!

Kerry was too cute by half claiming the "Arab Nations" (read that - Saudi Arabia), would foot the bill. Who foots Saudi Arabia's bill?

Uh, well . . .

Da Banks. Israel wouldn't even exist without . . . Da Banks.

Someday, someone will sharpen Billy Occ's razor and folks might see. Been going on 5 times my 60 years . . . I hardly expect the mental midgets - all 536 - to stand up to Da Bankers. They can break every one of them.

Oh, my, a "conspiracy theory." Conspire away! Heh!

Anonymous Rally September 04, 2013 3:35 PM  

Al Queda's air force? I saw the headline and figured they hacked and took over a drone.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 3:36 PM  

Clowns to the left of me jokers to the right.

Blogger IM2L844 September 04, 2013 3:41 PM  

I'm convince Obama is, at the very least, a Wahhabi sympathizer and more than likely an active Wahhabi/al-Taqiyya practitioner.

Anonymous Sigyn September 04, 2013 3:42 PM  

Speaking of jokers, who's the anonymous dude?

Anonymous Starbuck September 04, 2013 3:42 PM  

Israel is fucking evil and should be destroyed

Then why don't you go and destroy it. I am sure you could accomplish that with your big mouth. stats, you always been a big blowhard? I am guessing yes.

You and a lot of other people love to blame the jews for everything. Did you ever stop and think that perhaps not all jews are responsible for all the ills of the world? That perhaps it is all races? That perhaps all races have evil people in them?

Oh no....

Stats... remember this: Jesus was a jew. Hebrew from the tribe of Judah. Get over your irrational hate for any one race.

Anonymous Laz September 04, 2013 3:43 PM  

Yeah, I'd like some links too. The only thing I can find is they sold the first Amur 1650 to Morocco last month.

Anonymous Tallen September 04, 2013 3:43 PM  

One or two comments have hit the nail. All the politics, bombing and saber rattling is a side show for control of Europe's liquid natural gas supply. The US has no direct interest at stake and the European nations have thus far decided against military intervention to secure their interest. So, yes the US would be acting in proxy as Al Qaeda's air force, as well as the EU's, Saudi Arabia's and Qatar's air force.

Anonymous Laz September 04, 2013 3:45 PM  

"Clowns to the left of me jokers to the right."

Look, Congressmen really do visit this site.

Anonymous stats79 September 04, 2013 3:46 PM  

I stand with Israel and don't hide behind a screen pseudonym.

Why?

Blogger JohnG September 04, 2013 3:49 PM  

For some reason I absolve the Jooos of having anything to do with Barry Soetoro running his mouth and screwing up. When has he not f*ed up when off teleprompter? Having said that, of course Israel would like us to whack Iran and Syria, I think exploiting stupid politicians is an official pastime in various places. Kinda like "Palestinians" conning hundreds of $millions out of us for a "peace process" - and then putting out Suicide Bomber Sesame Street for their kids.

This is pretty stupid though, everybody knows this so Obama doesn't look stupid(er than he already does), Chris Mathews and Jon Stewart are in WTF mode. Poor Hal Lindsey, I think Islamic Antichrist might have been a more convincing scenario. But this does actually have a lot of potential to turn into a regional war, and I'm curious to see what Russia has in mind...Vlad seems a bit more adamant than usual...

Anonymous stats79 September 04, 2013 3:50 PM  

You and a lot of other people love to blame the jews for everything.

Blame them for everything? I blame them for the crimes they have admitted to. Did you read the Wikipedia excerpt I posted?

OpenID newrebeluniv September 04, 2013 3:54 PM  

I stand with Israel and don't hide behind a screen pseudonym.--Scott

Well. That's pretty stupid.

No one should use their real name on line... or in combat... or when knocking over a liquor store...

Anonymous cheddarman September 04, 2013 4:05 PM  

Hal Lindsey readers never heard about military logistics. Had any of them read anything regarding logistics, they would have to conclude Hal was a fraud...that and his multiple divorces and 4 wives.

Anonymous DonReynolds September 04, 2013 4:16 PM  

Laz...."Yeah, I'd like some links too. The only thing I can find is they sold the first Amur 1650 to Morocco last month."

The Russians are not likely to be more transparent about their arms sales than the USA. During the Korean War, the US was surprised by MiG-15s (which drove the old B-29s from the skies), but no one made it clear that these aircraft had Soviet pilots, flying from sanctuary bases in Red China. If the Russians have been providing the Syrians with the latest submarines, you can be certain they have been providing the crews as well. Harder to grow a crew than build a submarine and face it, the Syrians are not a major maritime power.

The irony of course is John Paul Jones meets John Paul Jones. (In 1787, he left the US Navy to become a rear admiral in the Imperial Russian Navy, commanding the "Vladimir" against the Turks on the Black Sea.) In the Russian service, his name was made French as Pevel de Zhoves or Paul de Joves.

Anonymous Noah B. September 04, 2013 4:23 PM  

"Amur 1650 Russian sub"

According to Wikipedia, none of these have been built yet. Hard to believe Russia has sold a brand new type of sub to Syria that hasn't even entered into service in its own navy.

Blogger JCclimber September 04, 2013 4:24 PM  

Ha ha! doesn't hide behind a screen name while giving support to the Jewish mafia. Yeah, thanks for the laugh.

What makes it even funnier is that it is unintentionally ironic.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 4:26 PM  

Starbuck -

Israel should not be destroyed by an outside force - they are doing a fine job of it all by themselves.

They do not have a single thing to do with God's covenantal issues with the Jews. They are most admittedly "secular" and should be left to their own designs, as we should leave everyone in that volatile region of the world alone and to their own designs.

The One Holy Church founded by Jesus, is getting obliterated in the ME warfare, and it has not been Americans, but our stupid gummint, that led the charge into complete idiocy in the Arab world.

Stats may need to tone down, but so do you! What you wrote is sheer ignorance of the fulfillment of the Covenant in Christ Jesus!

"Jesus was a jew. Hebrew from the tribe of Judah.

Yeah . . . so . . . you sound like Scofield . . .

I am a Christian by Holy Baptism, profession of faith, and by vocation and thus, a member of the NEW Israel. That silly argument about Jesus you uttered is but a foil for those who cannot discuss the matter further, or choose not to do so.

You need to understand the difference between Zionism, which is a national movement and the nation of Israel is its result, and the Orthodox rabbis who very much understand that "Israel could never 'be again'" until the return of Messiah.

The Orthodox Jews who truly hold to their faith, sadly, missed Jesus - they are the ones Scripture says will be converted at the end. Zionism/Herzlism/Dispensationalism (off-the-wall Christianity pretenders) is but a false, misleading dream. Were the nation of Israel to follow it's own Jewish Scriptural precepts, their time in the Mideast since 05/14/48 would have brought a peace rarely known to the region, and Christ would BE at the forefront.

Sadly, such is not the case. Unless one is intentionally brain-dead, or ignorant, Israel as a nation has done nothing since 05/14/48 but antagonize its every relation with every nation. That's their problem.

It is not our problem as Americans, and our gummints' annual, and perpetual sell-out to the Zionists is as goofy as shyte.

A little "grin and giggle" for you . . .

Kerry's grandfather was surnamed "Kohn," not Kerry.

None of us is Vox, but at least you ought to know something about which you speak

Pax tecum - jb


Blogger Random September 04, 2013 4:31 PM  

I just don't understand how anyone comes to the conclusion that the promises of God to "Israel" apply to the secular nation-state of Israel founded in the 20th century.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 4:33 PM  

Random . . .

It does not.

Pax tecum - jb

Blogger Scott Laughlin September 04, 2013 4:38 PM  

Anonymous,

Just in case anyone mistakes me for believing the vomit you are spewing, and lumps me, a Bible believing Christian in with you, I have to post that you sir need to read your Bible and pray that the Lord would reveal His truth to you. Other than distinguishing myself from what you have written anything more would be casting pearls before swine. Disgusting.

Anonymous zen0 September 04, 2013 4:43 PM  

Authorities now trying to suppress information coming out of Egypt that Obama is actually a full member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

That would be interesting.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 4:47 PM  

Sigyn -

BTW - I typed "jb" at the end of my first coment - it just didn't show up with my comment.

I am an ordained LCMS Pastor, and I understand Law and Gospel, which the Jews of Jesus' day never understood, and few, no matter their denomination of affilitation, understand today.

FYI . . . jb

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 4:51 PM  

Scott-

If you intend to be juvenile in your theology, that is your call,

:-)

Pax tecum - jb

Anonymous Brother Thomas September 04, 2013 4:51 PM  

It going to be just like the bail-out. 90% of the people oppose it, but it passes anyway.

Bailouts without representation

War without representation

Anonymous Robert in Arabia September 04, 2013 4:54 PM  

Hitler's goals were too modest on the ethnic front.

Anonymous tj September 04, 2013 5:00 PM  

The Torah believing jews or Talmudic (Babylonian) believing jews?



Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 5:03 PM  

Scott -

If you cannot do Romans 1-11 (IN THE GREEK) and apologize . . . then fo as Jesus said, and "Go and learn what this means . . ."

Understand - I forgive you your ignorance. All of us were once ignorant of what Jesus meant to say. You need to forgive yourself and learn to study Scripture instead of pretending you know what you are talking about.

Pax tecum - jb

Anonymous DanG September 04, 2013 5:08 PM  

I keep imaging a Jim Mora-like rant, substituting "American credibility" for "playoffs".

Anonymous Sigyn September 04, 2013 5:12 PM  

I am an ordained LCMS Pastor, and I understand Law and Gospel, which the Jews of Jesus' day never understood, and few, no matter their denomination of affilitation, understand today.

Really? You have special knowledge? Where did you get it?

Anonymous Daniel September 04, 2013 5:21 PM  

Hal Lindsey's a Calvinist. How else do you expect him to think?

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother September 04, 2013 5:22 PM  

Scott Laughlin,

Righteous indignation ain't going to cut it around here. You can't huff and puff and say "Disgusting". You actually need to debate with Scripture and logic. Try again, this time minus the bombast. The vast majority of people here are Christians.you are not in the camp of the enemy.

Question for you. You subscribe to the doctrine of dispensationalism, right? When did that come imto existence?

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 5:22 PM  

Signy -

I was not assigning to myself any sort of gnosticism . . . I know better. Do you?

But by your response I understand fully your first remark. Apparently, you were being snarky. That's your call . . . deal with a congregation for a year and you will redefine your definition "special knowledge" and snarky. You haven't a clue!

I was proffering information you had requested - not trying to diss you.

Apparently, you felt dissed. Man - there are John Scalzi's all over the place!

I knew and understood "game" before it was so labeled.

Alpha Pax tecum - jb

Anonymous Blume September 04, 2013 5:24 PM  

Thats pretty funny. We stole the best german scientist. Our subs are way better then Russia's. Tech wise, the US wins hands down in any Russia/USA fight. I wouldnt worry about the navy. I would be more worried about Syria using chemical weapons against Israel. I mean if your gonna do the time might as well commit the crime.

Anonymous Sigyn September 04, 2013 5:24 PM  

Troll-flag on JB. I'm guessing it's the Backwards Kitty.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 5:31 PM  

Sigyn

My name is: ( I have been "jb" forever)

Rev J. Jeffrey Baxter, Pastor
Our Redeemer Lutheran Church
Palacios, Texas
BA Concordia, Ann Arbor
MDiv CTS, Fort Wayne

Dude - do you want to really want to enter the fray?

It is more than apparent to everyone here you have nothing to say.

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 5:34 PM  

Troll-flag on JB. I'm guessing it's the Backwards Kitty.

Doesn't sound anything like her. There's no babbling about herself or riding high on waves of understanding or becoming one with the knowledge of the universe.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 5:39 PM  

REG:

"I am an ordained LCMS Pastor, and I understand Law and Gospel, which the Jews of Jesus' day never understood, and few, no matter their denomination of affilitation, understand today."

What does 'LCMS' stand for? People that know it all are just down right scary; I need to know when to wear my CC vest.

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 5:43 PM  

Lutheran church, Missouri synod

Anonymous Blume September 04, 2013 5:45 PM  

What does the acronym lcms stand for?

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 5:45 PM  

For the Christian zionists here:

When you say "I stand with Israel" what do you mean?

Are you saying that you stand with Israel even if that could mean standing against America, against christianity, or against God?

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 5:46 PM  

And

Sigyn -

I am an alpha-male in every sense Vox has tried to instruct you/ and folks. My wife and I enjoy the very same relationship Vox and his bride enjoy. We are not at odds, because we are not at odds with the Lord. Hear that, Scott?

We have the mutual respect the Lord intended we have for one another. We understand the world, and do not delude ourselves with its machinations to persuade us to think otherwise.

Wanna go "toe-to-toe?" Say so . . .

It'll be a late luch, but I am "game" . . . :-)

Pax tecum - jb

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 5:49 PM  

Josh -

You ask the question of the ages. Good show!\

Pax tecum - jb

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 5:56 PM  

"Are you saying that you stand with Israel even if that could mean standing against America, against christianity, or against God?"

Josh! Duh! Israel could never go against God! I mean look all through the Bible when did Israel EVER do something God didn't want them to... to...

...

yeah never mind.

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 5:57 PM  

FYI jb...just put jb in the "name/url" box. You don't need to provide a URL.

Anonymous Sigyn September 04, 2013 5:59 PM  

Doesn't sound anything like her. There's no babbling about herself or riding high on waves of understanding or becoming one with the knowledge of the universe.

On the other hand, the statements are relatively random, and then there's the Game business out of nowhere like it's some kind of credential. The Backwards Kitty was very much about Game, relationships, and things like that. Though I'd have to give this one credit, if it is she, for pretending not to realize I'm not a "dude".

It could be some other troll, of course. But I'm sticking by my call of troll either way. "JB" is here for attention.

By the way, is it typical of Lutherans to sign off in Latin?

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 6:02 PM  

"By the way, is it typical of Lutherans to sign off in Latin?"

I don't think Lutherans are consistent enough for anything to be consistent among them.

Blogger Scott Laughlin September 04, 2013 6:06 PM  

So LCMS doctrine on Israel is Replacement Theology?

jb, I will apologize to a Lutheran Pastor simply because my in-laws were long time Lutherans but only for the 'pearls before swine' comment I still think you are sadly in error.

A couple of comments, Eze 37 'dry bones' vision is the prophecy and model for how a secular, unbelieving, ungodly nation of Israel is gathered and later becomes the annotated Israel that God again uses for His primary mouthpiece during the 'time of Jacob's trouble.'

After His Church is gathered to Himself, God will use the Jewish people to primarily take His message to the world. Yes that is an honor and a privilege that the Church, made up of Believing Jews and Gentiles, as it exists today has. However, to fulfill His promise to the Jewish people they will be used during that time after the Harpazo to witness to the world.

Question to those of you who are 'Replacement theology' proponents? To what end? Why? How does it fit God's plan of Salvation? What does this aberrant interpretation of Scripture reveal about the nature of our God?

Stg58 I still feel 'righteous indignation' is called for regarding Anonymous's posts, since he was the one who threw the first stones against Starbuck. But I will try and represent God's Grace here in this forum with His Grace.

In His Love -- Scott

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 6:11 PM  

So LCMS doctrine on Israel is Replacement Theology?

Depending on what you meant by replacement theology, that's been orthodox doctrine for most of church history.

Blogger tz September 04, 2013 6:18 PM  

It's probably a good thing this didn't happen in the late 1970s. I can't even imagine how many Hal Lindsay readers would be convinced that the end of the world was approaching.

Well Syria is an ally of Ma Russia, who might send troops, invade, cross the Golan heights, and Israel will use their nuclear arsenal.

HL originally said that the Rapture would decimate the USA as there would not be many left. I wonder if he changed on that.

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 6:18 PM  

Is "righteous indignation" churchian for "mindhurt! Feelbad!"?

Anonymous nick digger September 04, 2013 6:18 PM  

jb (i think?)- "Israel as a nation has done nothing since 05/14/48 but antagonize its every relation with every nation."

That's an understatement. They've been doing that since Several-Hundred-48 B.C.

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 6:23 PM  

Replacement Theology!!!

Or as christians have known it since Tertulian and Augustine...

Just plain old Christianity.

Anonymous Dan in Tx (pastor of the Church of What's Happinin' Now) September 04, 2013 6:37 PM  

Discussing the fed gov's foreign policy in the mid east or banksters without mentioning Jews is like talking about violent crime and not mentioning niggers.

Anonymous AK September 04, 2013 6:38 PM  

Methinks "jb" lacks a certain requisite Christian modesty. I feel like there should be more explanation/engagement and less hoity-toity mockery. Or mayhaps I am tired and totally misread the tone?

Blogger Scott Laughlin September 04, 2013 6:39 PM  

Josh,

By 'replacement theology' I mean the doctrine that the Church has taken the place of Israel in scripture in both the promises and mission of Jewish Israel. And yes, I agree that it has been 'orthodox doctrine for most of church history.' But I would have thought that it would have been put to rest in 1948 or sometime soon after.

I will even argue that there was a valid reason why 'replacement theology' came into being while there wasn't a physical nation of Israel in the land -- after all, Jesus couldn't be expected to return at anytime without the nation of Israel calling him back. But there was always a believing remnant.

However, I don't see much acceptance by Replacement advocates of the 'curses' upon Israel by God being transferred upon 'spiritual Israel' The Church. And if the promises given to the physical nation of Israel are not eternal and unconditional then how can I as a recent believer in Jesus and a Spiritual Jew count on God's unconditional promises to me?

I will gladly stand with Israel against poor doctrine, Replacement Theology and against antisemitism. I think I will eventually have to stand with them in opposition to my government. But never against God and His Word.

God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow -- to that end I reject the label of dispensationalist because it is not Biblical. God's Grace has always been offered -- even in the Old Testament and Mercy has always been His nature, and Faith has always been the only way to Salvation.

In His Love -- Scott

Blogger JDC September 04, 2013 6:49 PM  

I don't think Lutherans are consistent enough for anything to be consistent among them.

Perhaps. I would submit that there is less inconsistency in LCMS, WELS and ELS than other Lutheran groups. The ELCA is a nightmare - which, if I'm not mistaken, has a full communion agreement with the Methodist church. So...according to the rule of ad hominem fallacy - more specifically, guilt by association - you are grafted into the tree of inconsistency. Welcome to the new age of love, tolerance and pan-sexual transgender clergy.



Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother September 04, 2013 6:50 PM  

Scott,

The impasse I see is you believe the current nation of Israel is the chosen people of God. I wonder if you were to ask Netanyahu whether he agreed with you what he would say? Also, if this nation called Israel is the chosen people, why are they still stiff necked and rebellious? Why do they host the largest gay pride parade in the world and have legal abortion? Wouldn't or shouldn't God be judging them for that? It seems to me that Israel meets the OT criteria for God's judgement and deliverance imto the hands of the Persians or Assyrians.

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 6:54 PM  

"So...according to the rule of ad hominem fallacy - more specifically, guilt by association - you are grafted into the tree of inconsistency. Welcome to the new age of love, tolerance and pan-sexual transgender clergy."

Dude... please... Consistency has never been something that the methodist church was particularly concerned with.

Anonymous ME September 04, 2013 6:55 PM  

"Doesn't sound anything like her. There's no babbling about herself or riding high on waves of understanding or becoming one with the knowledge of the universe"

You mean like heart chakras and quantaum mechanics, stuff like that? Rabbit holes, death panels, and Obamacare? God sent me, sigyn. He stuck his finger in my brain and I decended into subjective reality. The lettered people helped create the hysterics until I totally forgot this was a free country. God and Vox reminded me that damnit, it still is.

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 6:55 PM  

"But I would have thought that it would have been put to rest in 1948 or sometime soon after."

/facepalm

Anonymous Sigyn September 04, 2013 6:56 PM  

JDC, are you a Lutheran, or are you just taking their side for the sake of fairness? Genuine question. (Because if you're Lutheran, maybe you can tell me if they use Latin much.)

Anonymous Sigyn September 04, 2013 6:59 PM  

It's funny that the Tinglish Patient happened to be listening just now.

Blogger Scott Laughlin September 04, 2013 7:00 PM  

Stg58

It would be more accurate to say that I believe that Israel will once again be God's chosen people, which is currently bestowed upon the Believing Church made up of Jews and Gentiles. But, I am not going to die on that hill because God clearly says of the Jews and Israel that He has chosen them. God doesn't exist within time -- He sees unbelieving Jews and the secular state of Israel the way he looked upon me for the first 32 years of my life as an agnostic/atheist, as saved and chosen for His purposes.

Scripture is quite clear that the nation would be gathered again in a state of unbelief and I certainly agree that the wickedness in Israel (and the US) is deserving of God's Judgment. But then there is His Mercy and Grace that saved me from my fallen state....

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 7:02 PM  

"I will even argue that there was a valid reason why 'replacement theology' came into being while there wasn't a physical nation of Israel in the land -- after all, Jesus couldn't be expected to return at anytime without the nation of Israel calling him back. But there was always a believing remnant."

The stupid here is so giant is staggering. Jesus needs Jews to call Him back!

Honestly this is why wide distribution of the Bible wasn't that smart.

Anonymous duckman September 04, 2013 7:03 PM  

If this had happened in the late '70s, maybe Jesus would have returned then. He might return soon now. Or it may be another 2000 years. No man knows...

We are commanded to be watchful and ready.

Blogger AMDG September 04, 2013 7:18 PM  

Now that was funny.

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 7:20 PM  

But never against God and His Word

So...when Israel forsook God...and He let them be conquered, killed, and raped by their enemies...and this happened time and time again...would you be "standing for Israel?"

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 7:21 PM  

Also...every Jew that denied Jesus...from the time of His resurrection to the present day...is in Hell.

Theologically, Jew=Muslim=Hindu=Buddhism=Atheist.

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 7:22 PM  

'So...when Israel forsook God...and He let them be conquered, killed, and raped by their enemies...and this happened time and time again...would you be "standing for Israel?"

Well see God was actually sinning against God because He wasn't standing for Israel.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother September 04, 2013 7:23 PM  

The same guys are here next to Israel that were there back in the day. Assyrians, Persians, Edomites, Egyptians and Philistines. Scott, if we stand with Israel and depose Assad so a muslim crazy force runs Syria right on Israel's border, how is that really standing with Israel?

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother September 04, 2013 7:25 PM  

Josh,

How do we know that every Jew that denied Jesus is in hell? Didn't Jesus die for the sin of unbelief? Wouldn't that actually be grace, Jesus saving people that rejected him?

Anonymous zen0 September 04, 2013 7:43 PM  

Josh plays trump card Also...every Jew that denied Jesus...from the time of His resurrection to the present day...is in Hell.

Everytime someone brings Hell into the the discussion, the discussion goes to Hell.

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 7:44 PM  

John 3:15... John 11:26...

do I need to keep going?

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother September 04, 2013 7:48 PM  

Nate,

So all the people that have never heard of Jesus and don't know they have to believe on Him or going to hell?

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 7:48 PM  

Sigyn -

I thought you were asking a question in the beginning, not setting an agenda. No matter . . . You are either full of yourself . . .

Or - full of shyte. Lutheran pastors are realists - we, too. might be full of th brown stuff personally, but the Gospel is an entirely different matter, and if you wish to diss Jesus - give me a moment or so to step out of the path of the lightning bolt!

Heh!

And yes, if you had half a clue, you would understand Lutherans are fairly fluent in at least three languages.

Continue to engage . . . but if anyone is "troll"

You seem to want to qualify, most certainly.

Nate . . . ignorance is a horrible mental disease. Yes, we Lutheran Pastors quite often "sign off" to one another in Latin, or Greek, or Hebrew. It is a "shorthand" we greatly enjoy. We are extremely flexible, and some of us are learning how to sign off in the various languages of the continent of Africa which, were you are aware, is a most fertile ground for the Gospel of Jesus Christ and growing like the proverbial weed!

For both of you . . .

Nate . . .

Here ya go, "Dude" - for your sake . . .

"Gratia Domini nostri Iesu Christi et caritas Dei et communicatio Sancti Spiritus cum omnibus vobis. Amen"

חסד האדון ישוע המשיח ואהבת האלהים והתחברות רוח הקדש עם כלכם אמן

"Ἡ χάρις τοῦ Κυρίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ καὶ ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ Θεοῦ, καὶ ἡ κοινωνία τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος μετὰ πάντων ὑμῶν ἀμήν πρός Κορινθίους δευτέρᾳ ἐγράφη ἀπό Φιλίππων τῆς Μακεδονίας διά Τίτου καί Λουκᾶ"

"Die Gnade unsers HERRN Jesu Christi und die Liebe Gottes und die Gemeinschaft des Heiligen Geistes sei mit euch allen! Amen." (Luther)

You won't "one-up" me . . . I am way past amateur status. Bring a serious argument to the table, ok?

"Theology" is fraught with meaning - and I bow before the altar of what that means. It is not about me and my opinion(s).

Isaiah 55:8-9 should make that abundantly clear. :-)

Pax tecum - jb

Anonymous Sir_Chancealot September 04, 2013 7:49 PM  

So Scott Laughlin,

Are you getting paid tuition for your posts here?

Also, who are those that "say they are Jews, and are not" of Rev 2:9 and 3:9?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Anonymous zen0 September 04, 2013 7:53 PM  

Nate gets down: The stupid here is so giant is staggering. Jesus needs Jews to call Him back!

Honestly this is why wide distribution of the Bible wasn't that smart.


Au contraire, my good man. The liberation of the bible to the masses at the beginning of the 19th Century was an act of God.

Jesus does not need Jews to call him back, but the beginning of the Jews returning to the land was a sign that Jesus WAS back, and the harvest of the Time of the Gentiles was upon us, just like the harvest at the first advent.

The Wheat has long been gathered, and a whole other process is afoot.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother September 04, 2013 7:55 PM  

This thread is turning into a Faulkner novel.

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 7:57 PM  

JB

I don't think troll means what you think it means... but judging by your last several comments... you absolutely fit the definition as well as anyone I've seen.

That is to say... you aren't here to participate in a discussion... you're here to stir up crap.

This is pattently obvious by your response to me. You rattle off a bunch of crap that literally has nothing to do with what I said. You refer to lutheran pastors as if it is some universally similar elite club or something... when in fact the lutheran church is as splintered and divided as most other modern churches. Hense my statement about consistency. I've known Lutheran ministers that were hardcore gospel conservatives and I've known them that were nutcase liberals that taught that Jesus' ressurection was just this awesome symbol. I know I know... No true Lutheran right?

And yes... we know about africa... and we also know about asia... particularly Thailand.

Now do you have something to actually add or would you prefer to keep talking about yourself?

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 7:58 PM  

oh I'm sorry... I forgot...


Deo Vindice

Blogger JDC September 04, 2013 7:59 PM  

Yes Sigyn my dear - I am a Lutheran, and an LCMS pastor and I take no sides for the sake of taking sides - unless the Big 10 is playing the SEC. I didn't even realize I was taking a side, except, to take a jab at Nate for being a crazy Methodist.

Anonymous civilServant September 04, 2013 8:01 PM  

Shouldn't the Saudis and the Israelis have the money and brainpower to handle this themselves?

They have enough money and brainpower to persuade someone else to handle it for them.

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 8:02 PM  

"This thread is turning into a Faulkner novel."

You're right... the characters aren't as good though.

We should be talking about guns and the NFL.

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 8:03 PM  

' I didn't even realize I was taking a side, except, to take a jab at Nate for being a crazy Methodist."

I go to the UMC but I don't consider my theology to be particularly aligned with the Methodist Church. Which in a way is very methodist of me.

I'm a greek orthodox christian that happens to be a member of a methodist church.

Blogger JDC September 04, 2013 8:05 PM  

And brother jb...I will remind you that Luther's primary concern, regarding the gospel, was not to change the church, but to spell out the impact of the gospel for the everyday Christian - in words and ideas that they could understand and relate to. As I'm sure you have experienced and are well aware, credentials and foreign language ability do not a preacher / teacher make.

Anonymous Godfrey September 04, 2013 8:08 PM  

After reading some of these posts I just have to say...

Hal Lindsey, you asshole.

Blogger JDC September 04, 2013 8:08 PM  

Which in a way is very methodist of me.

I hope you realize I am just busting your chops - I have respect (not to say full agreement), but respect for other faith traditions...even Methodists - but not, I repeat, not Presbyterians. They are wicked crazy.

Anonymous zen0 September 04, 2013 8:09 PM  

civil servant: They have enough money and brainpower to persuade someone else to handle it for them.

Gotta give ya that one. And Stepin Fetchit is just the guy they need to deliver.

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 8:10 PM  

I will say this though about the UMC. Since the early 1970s the pink nazi's have thrown everything they have at the UMC. We've even had a lesbian commit suicide right there in the convention center of our National Conference by jumping off a freaking balcony.

But the UMC hasn't given in. Its 40 years later... and it is still against UMC doctrine for a homosexual to hold any kind of teaching or leadership position in our church.

We fight this fight continually... and what do we get from our brothers and sisters in Christ?

"You haven't lost yet? Just give up. You know you're going to lose. I heard you already lost. Look at this news story. See HAHAHAH! you lost!!!"

Yeah thanks for that.

It helps a lot.

Anonymous zen0 September 04, 2013 8:12 PM  

"Gratia Domini nostri Iesu Christi et caritas Dei et communicatio Sancti Spiritus cum omnibus vobis. Amen"

חסד האדון ישוע המשיח ואהבת האלהים והתחברות רוח הקדש עם כלכם אמן

"Ἡ χάρις τοῦ Κυρίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ καὶ ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ Θεοῦ, καὶ ἡ κοινωνία τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος μετὰ πάντων ὑμῶν ἀμήν πρός Κορινθίους δευτέρᾳ ἐγράφη ἀπό Φιλίππων τῆς Μακεδονίας διά Τίτου καί Λουκᾶ"

"Die Gnade unsers HERRN Jesu Christi und die Liebe Gottes und die Gemeinschaft des Heiligen Geistes sei mit euch allen! Amen." (Luther)


Don't be bringing that Babylonian Mystery shit round here boy.
Your a Trinitarian, so you are just wrong from the get-go.

Gotta step your game up, Buckwheat.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 8:23 PM  

Sports Fans -

All of us need to stop trying to re-make Jesus, and prophecym into our own image or interpretation,

Speaking as a Weird Collar Wearer here . . .

What does "Gospel" mean? The Greek is pretty specific, but then again, so were Jesus and the Prophets. I have no personal beef with a single human being (with my Bride, perhaps, but she gives me a 15 second time limit!). Heh! A's know how to "take as well as give."

If you think modern day Israel is somehow a fulfillment of Scripture, I will buy both your beer, and the egg. A.D. fulfilled Christ's prophecy for the "nation" Israel. The One Holy Church, despite its every fault, is now the bearer of the title "Israel" - and one denies that to their own peril.

Many will argue for whatever reason - especially within the Church. I deal with that nonsense on a daily (sometimes hourly) basis. The Old Adam - the sinner within us - wants to hold sway. And we so often say "OK' without realizing what it is we are doing.

Jesus, in His every manifestation to us in Word, and Sacrament, is not bound by what we think. We would be a sorry lot were that so. Arguing with those who imagine themselves authorities is a useless task. I was raised and almost entered the Roman priesthood. Sinfully, my libido intervened, but the 4th Lateran Council was wrong anyway. I spent five years at Calvin's feet, and it was like a resturant that had a great menu, but never put the meal on the table.

Luther got it. He gets beat to death in his own grave by those who couldn't carry his theological briefcase, but he knew that.

Some 6.9 million Africans (many of them former Muslims) just came the LCMS way, wanting education of Pastors and teachers and a clear path.

Critics are a dime a dozen, and they need to get into line. Putting modern day Israel in front of the Gospel . . .

is a false and misleading dream. The New Covenant supercedes the Old. I wish those of the Jewish persuasion all the best - AS DID JESUS.

But Jesus is the focus of the Covenant (old and new), and has been ever since Genesis 3:15. Israel of old broke the original Covenant, and God in Christ renewed it His way in Christ. Dystopian Scofieldism and its various manifestations in various (often large) numbers notwithstanding . . .

Jesus spoke of the remnant, as did the Prophets.

Not many, but few. The few "were/are" Israel.

The Peace of the Lord (pax tecum) to all . . . jb



Anonymous Azimus September 04, 2013 8:26 PM  

Nate September 04, 2013 8:03 PM
I'm a greek orthodox christian that happens to be a member of a methodist church.


In a weird way, that just made me proud to be American.

Anonymous civilServant September 04, 2013 8:34 PM  

They have enough money and brainpower to persuade someone else to handle it for them.

Gotta give ya that one. And Stepin Fetchit is just the guy they need to deliver.


Surely. He certainly keeps the focus on himself and prevents it from drifting onto whatever is behind him ....

Anonymous Sigyn September 04, 2013 8:36 PM  

Yes Sigyn my dear - I am a Lutheran, and an LCMS pastor and I take no sides for the sake of taking sides - unless the Big 10 is playing the SEC. I didn't even realize I was taking a side, except, to take a jab at Nate for being a crazy Methodist.

Didn't mean anything by it, JDC. I have no problem with someone taking a side because it needs taking, whether it's his own side or someone else's.

But yeah, jab Nate. He needs it sometimes--the rassin'-frassin' varmint.

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 8:39 PM  

The roughest toughest heman stuffest that ever crossed the rio grandee... and don't mean ma-hat ma gandee.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 8:42 PM  

Zeno

So you say . . .

And thus you say, today and forever more! :-)

Pax Christi anyway . . . jb

P.S.

"Don't be bringing that Babylonian Mystery shit round here boy.

Zeno - please don't forward your sales pitch my way. Perhaps you can persuade the mental sheeples and the folks who go "Huh!" - but

So can car salesmen . . . big whoops.

This entire thread is about soteriology, and few get it. You most certainly do not!

"I'm a Trinitarian, so I am just wrong from the "git-go" - says you.

I get it. I should bow to your superior wisdom because, well, you say so.

I think not. Vox does not admit the appropriate "smilies" that might express my absolute delight at your statements.

So if I might reply in kind . . .

Buckwheat - the reason you are able to talk through you hat, is because there is a large hole in your hat.

Peace, anyway - the journey is worht the effort. jb

Anonymous Josh September 04, 2013 8:46 PM  

JB sounds like Dread

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 8:54 PM  

Dread . . .I AM DREAD . . . Heh!

Whomever that might be.

I am always compared on this site to someone else. Sigh.

Josh - believe whatever you want to believe. Some folks here are no better than Al Gore/Obama disciples - they believe whatever they say. I hear a far different drummer - I march in HIS direction.

Sorry if that offends anyone.

Pax tecum, (there's that Latin again!) -

jb

Anonymous Kaz September 04, 2013 9:00 PM  

Peace, anyway - the journey is worht the effort. jb

And so intones the officious bagman of Christian bromides

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 9:04 PM  

Kaz -

Stick it, in all Christian charity.

You meant by your comment to impugn me or hurt me.

You did neither - you just employed sill ad hominem. Your fault.

Refute what I said.! You won't because you cannot. No mystery.

Pax tecum - jb

Blogger Whiskey September 04, 2013 9:13 PM  

Israel opposes removing Assad like they did Saddam, on the sensible notion that what comes after will be worse.

Cantor and Boehner just want to bail out Obama.

Israel benefits from Assad winning, as he will still be to weak to attack. AQ on their doorstep is worse for them bc AQ will conduct total cleansing being stronger in numbers. Assad is down to Hezbollah now. He must if he wins husband his strength.

Israels real concern is Iran and being made a nuke demonstration. Obama has proven to be weak, dithering, and feckless and Iran threatens constantly to nuke Israel out of existence. Israel is highly likely to nuke first and use their gas fields as leverage. Since no one believes Obama will stop Irans nuke program, aimed at forcing the US out of the Gulf and oil production cuts by the Saudis.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn September 04, 2013 9:16 PM  

Stick it, in all Christian charity.

Yes Kaz, with the highest respect and reverence, he bids you kiss his arse.

You did neither - you just employed sill ad hominem.

Sill ad hominem: the precise opposite of defenestration.

Refute what I said.!

I realise that most people these days use unnecessary punctuation to give added emphasis, but a full stop and a pling is simply ridiculous.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 9:18 PM  

Loki -

Your point?

Anonymous zen0 September 04, 2013 9:22 PM  

Peace, anyway - the journey is worht the effort. jb

Smarmy incincerity is an offense to God, I would think. Just tell me to fuck off and be done with it.

Oh, and back at ya.

You know, in peace and all.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn September 04, 2013 9:26 PM  

Your point?

The same as your own, of course.

Anonymous zen0 September 04, 2013 9:30 PM  

I march in HIS direction.

So you proclaim. So do many proclaim. Just remember that even St. Paul would not dare proclaim that he was sure to qualify for the Prize.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 9:34 PM  

Zeno -

What you keyed is easy - calling what I said "smarmy . . .

Dude - God the Almighty Himself knows I am not INsincere. I just do not tolerate fools well.

If you wish to be classified as sucn - that is your call. I will never tell anyone to eff off - that is of your own vanity and offense taken. That has nothing to do with what I said and you should be sufficiently intelligent to understand that was a furrily stupid assertion.

I take no offense . . .

How could I? What you said made no sense.

Pax tecum - jb

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother September 04, 2013 9:34 PM  

Jb seems way too high falutin for Palacios.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 9:36 PM  

Zeno - by your own words . . .

You are little but a sorry cynic.

I shall pray for you.

Pax tecum - jb

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother September 04, 2013 9:37 PM  

Are all Lutheran pastors this crazy?

Anonymous zen0 September 04, 2013 9:38 PM  

jb puts me in my place:

How could I? What you said made no sense.

Of course not. It is outside the paradigm you have freely chosen.

You may have chosen unwisely.

shalom

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn September 04, 2013 9:42 PM  

Ah, but he said to "stick it", which is quite, quite different from "effing off". Masturbation, of course, is a far worse sin than sodomising oneself.

I am afraid he has you there, zen0.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 9:48 PM  

Dude -

Good try.

You still have not refuted my original statements, but merely continued upon the ad hominem path.

I have put myself in your "own place" . . . I think not.

Do you have a substantive argument or are you merely exercising you fingers on the keyboard? Do you want to argue substantial theology, or just take pot-shots? No skin off my back - you seem quite animated, with no argument at all.

Ya got some gas . . . or not?

Pax tecum - jb

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother September 04, 2013 9:57 PM  

Jb,

Do you really live in Palacios?

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn September 04, 2013 9:57 PM  

I have put myself in your "own place" . . . I think not.

If you mean to engage in flyting, you would do well to pay attention to what your opponent says. This is the first rule.

Ya got some gas . . . or not?

Do step downwind, little meinfretr. There's a good lad.

Anonymous zen0 September 04, 2013 10:00 PM  

Do you have a substantive argument or are you merely exercising you fingers on the keyboard? Do you want to argue substantial theology, or just take pot-shots? No skin off my back - you seem quite animated, with no argument at all.

I found that this format is not conducive to substantive theology. The Trinitarian/anti-Trinitarian arguments are ubiquitous and readily available. At some point, one declares their choice and is done with it.

If I seem rather animated about it all to you is just another reflection of the inadequacy of this type of interaction. No nuance of speech, no facial cues, just typing.

And one of the only things that was useful from school, and the most boring, was typing.

Who knew.

Anonymous Method(ist) Man September 04, 2013 10:10 PM  

"I keep imaging a Jim Mora-like rant, substituting "American credibility" for "playoffs"."

Thread winner, hands down.


And congrats to jb for giving Nate the spiritual beat-down. It would appear that a fair amount of the ilk are not fond of organized religion, hence parting shots regarding Methodists and Lutherans. The ilk are Bible-thumpers, or so they claim...

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother September 04, 2013 10:14 PM  

Spiritual beat down? Please. More like verbal diarrhea fire hose.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 10:16 PM  

Yeah, I really live, and carry on - the Ministry of Jesus Christ in Palacois, Texas.

Come hear me preach.

Pax tecum - jb

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn September 04, 2013 10:18 PM  

And congrats to jb for giving Nate the spiritual beat-down. It would appear that a fair amount of the ilk are not fond of organized religion, hence parting shots regarding Methodists and Lutherans. The ilk are Bible-thumpers, or so they claim...

Behold, adding the odour of feet to the stench of JB's broken wind, the sockpuppets arrive to laud their hero and deck him with wreaths of linty laurel.

It is a glorious evening.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother September 04, 2013 10:19 PM  

I live 200 miles away from you. Also not Lutheran.

Anonymous zen0 September 04, 2013 10:24 PM  

Yeah, I really live, and carry on - the Ministry of Jesus Christ in Palacois, Texas.

Come hear me preach.

Pax tecum - jb


Are you kidding me? This was all just spam?
Gotta admit, I never saw that coming.

I am so naive.

Anonymous zen0 September 04, 2013 10:28 PM  

Hey, anybody remember when teevee evangelist Jimmy Swaggert, Jerry Lee Lewis's cousin, got caught with that ugly whore and had to cry on the teevee?

That was awesome.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 10:31 PM  

Unfortunately the "anti war" movement are only against Bush wars. Cindy Sheehan is nowhere to be found, proving herself to be a fraud and a tool.

Anonymous Kaz September 04, 2013 10:37 PM  

Yeah, I really live, and carry on - the Ministry of Jesus Christ in Palacois, Texas.

Come hear me preach.

Pax tecum - jb

The next time I'm in Palacois I will come and hear you preach. But you must promise to oil your way to the pulpit. Okay?

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn September 04, 2013 10:45 PM  

But you must promise to oil your way to the pulpit.

Good imagery, implication done well...Ah, it's like the olden days restored.

Anonymous BoGo September 04, 2013 10:46 PM  

"I am an ordained LCMS Pastor, and I understand Law and Gospel, which the Jews of Jesus' day never understood, and few, no matter their denomination of affilitation, understand today."

Well, isn't that special....

I'm sure the Lord is building you an extra-special mansion.

I smell Pharisee.

Anonymous Laz September 04, 2013 10:47 PM  

"Sadly, such is not the case. Unless one is intentionally brain-dead, or ignorant, Israel as a nation has done nothing since 05/14/48 but antagonize its every relation with every nation. That's their problem."

Looks like the brain-dead or ignorant one doesn't realize that the Jews antagonize just by being alive and somebody has wanted to exterminate them for it for thousands of years.
-----------

"They are wicked crazy."

Hypocrite much? You're all crazy. Show me a church that isn't full of hypocrites and I'll show you some ocean front property in Arizona. And you're gonna have a hard time convincing me otherwise as I have been to many different denominations, in many states and countries, in my first 32 years. These last 7 my relationship with God has been much better without all you nattering in my ear.
-----------

"Stick it, in all Christian charity."

Yup, hypocrite.

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 10:49 PM  

Loki -

Sorry.

I did not mean to rain on your parade. You want to be on the contrary side of Christ? I can not prevent you . . .

It's your call. Come up with a substantial argument to the contrary. Then, we can discuss facts, and not opinion.

Your call.

Pax tecum - jb

Anonymous Anonymous September 04, 2013 10:54 PM  

Viewing the most recent responses . . .

They have not achieved their "ponit" so, in perfect harmony, they unleash their venom upon one who has done so and said so.

Insecurity is hardly an admirable trait.

Pax tecum - jb

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn September 04, 2013 10:59 PM  

You want to be on the contrary side of Christ?

Ah yes, to insult you is to oppose Christ. I am grateful that you made it clear that when you called yourself an "alpha", it was only short for "alpha and omega".

Anonymous BoGo September 04, 2013 11:05 PM  

"Question to those of you who are 'Replacement theology' proponents? To what end? Why? How does it fit God's plan of Salvation? What does this aberrant interpretation of Scripture reveal about the nature of our God?"

Bingo. How does a G-d that changes the terms of His covenants on a whim deserve faith and worship? Sounds more like a middle-eastern "god" that encompasses all the human foibles, a la allah.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn September 04, 2013 11:05 PM  

They have not achieved their "ponit"

I have no intention of achieving a ponit with you, you argr.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn September 04, 2013 11:07 PM  

Though a ponit with my consort sounds delightful. Do excuse me.

...Carry on, JB. You can typing with the best of them.

Blogger Nate September 04, 2013 11:12 PM  

"And congrats to jb for giving Nate the spiritual beat-down. It would appear that a fair amount of the ilk are not fond of organized religion, hence parting shots regarding Methodists and Lutherans. The ilk are Bible-thumpers, or so they claim..."


Do take a moment to clarify my... what was it? spiritual beat down? Perhaps you could explain where the fellow even bothered to disagree with that I said... beyond suggesting that he was in fact sincere.

I note that he said he was sincere... the defended himself against an insult I never threw.

But then.. perhaps you define "beat down" differently then I?

Blogger Eric Wilson September 04, 2013 11:14 PM  

Lutherans may not be consistent (JB's comments reassure me that the WELS did right by breaking from LCMS in the 60s), but WELS and ELS are about as consistent as could be imagined. I don't consider ELCA as a Lutheran church.

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