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Friday, September 13, 2013

NSA treason

It should be interesting to see how deeply the latest Snowden revelation concerning systemic Israeli spying on US citizens gets buried by the mainstream media:
Since 2009, the National Security Agency (NSA) has been sharing raw signals intelligence (SIGINT), including information about specific US people, directly with Israel’s counterpart to the NSA, The Guardian reported on Wednesday. The British newspaper’s revelation comes once again from the documents provided by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden to American journalists Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras.

According to the five-page memorandum of understanding, the agreement appears to be a one-way street. Israel, at least as far as this document is concerned, is not obligated to reciprocate....

The NSA knew that the Israelis might be looking at information about US citizens—but they wanted to make sure that US government employees weren't snooped on. According to the document, Israel must immediately destroy any communication that is “to or from an official of the US Government,” including anyone from the executive, legislative, or judicial system, “independent of seniority or position.”

Despite the cooperation, Israel is viewed as more of a "frenemey" than a close ally. The Guardian also quoted from, but did not publish, what it described as “another top secret document” from 2008, where a “senior NSA official points out that Israel aggressively spies on the US.”
It should be informative to learn precisely who at the NSA was responsible for producing this memorandum of understanding. I expect it's probably a group of Scots-Irish employees who are completely and singularly loyal to the American national interest.

And I'm certain the Israelis have been fastidious about destroying every email to or from a U.S. politician.

Labels:

89 Comments:

Anonymous Toddy Cat September 13, 2013 1:07 PM  

Of course Israel "agressively spies on the U.S." The U.S. is what we old-timers used to call a "different country", and they naturally want to know what we're going to do. I have no problem with that, and if we had any brains, we'd be agressively spying on Israel, as well. It's the fact that some U.S. officials and congressmen seem to mistake Israel for the 51st state that bothers me. Personally, I wish Israel well, as I wish every country not at t war with the U.S. well. But this kind of crap has got to stop.

Anonymous Red September 13, 2013 1:09 PM  

This does explain the power of the Israeli loby.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 September 13, 2013 1:11 PM  

Antisemitic post!!!!

Israel is awesome because Jews survived the Holocaust and because Moses!!!

Anonymous Porky September 13, 2013 1:13 PM  

The boot.... is on the face.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben September 13, 2013 1:15 PM  

Technically how is this treason? Isn't treason the act of helping an enemy? I don't think Israel could be classified as an enemy.

Under a broad definition of screwing over Americans and turning the country into a police state it probably is treason.

Anonymous RL September 13, 2013 1:22 PM  

"I expect it's probably a group of Scots-Irish employees who are completely and singularly loyal to the American national interest."

This statement is tongue in cheek, isn't it?

Anonymous Eric Ashley September 13, 2013 1:24 PM  

The power of the Israeli lobby is because most Americans trust them as a spokesman for joint Israeli-American interests. This is similar to the NRA, which most Am. trust as a spokesman about gun interests.

However, both groups have interests that exceed what the Vast American Public is w illing to grant. The Israeli lobby would like to free Jewish spies, and the NRA would like to legalize machine guns. Neither proposal is going anywhere because the VAP won't support it.

The VAP does not get upset about Jewish spying because they figure that is what everyone does to each other. We spy on France, they spy on us. Britain spies on Australia, and Australia spies on Brazil.... But they do have the 'tude of 'if you can't do the time, don't do the crime'.

I assume pretty much every nation on the planet with minimal capabilities has spies in America. I know, if I were the Leader of West Nowhweresville, I would. Americans are dangerous, one needs to keep an eye on them.

Anonymous Jack Amok September 13, 2013 1:28 PM  

Technically how is this treason? Isn't treason the act of helping an enemy? I don't think Israel could be classified as an enemy.

No, they're defined as a "frenemy" so I guess this is just "freason." The penalty for freason is apparently a paycheck, a fat pension, and the opportunity to preview everyone's private sex tapes.


It should be informative to learn precisely who at the NSA was responsible for producing this memorandum of understanding.

Hmmmm, possibly the guy who gets a lucrative gig at a think tank or lobbying firm with lots of israli money behind it. And yes, I'm sure he's Scots-Irish. Probably Baptist too.

Anonymous Josh September 13, 2013 1:29 PM  

Technically how is this treason? Isn't treason the act of helping an enemy? I don't think Israel could be classified as an enemy.

What about the USS Liberty?

Or the Mossad operatives who were following the 9/11 hijackers in the months before 9/11?

Anonymous LES September 13, 2013 1:30 PM  

Treason? Who said anything about treason?

Of course Israel spies on the US, but we don't have to make it easy by just giving them
what they want.

Pat Buchanan was right. Capitol Hill is Israeli occupied territory.

Anonymous Josh September 13, 2013 1:31 PM  

and the NRA would like to legalize machine guns.

And you just shot your credibility all to hell.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 September 13, 2013 1:31 PM  

Technically how is this treason? Isn't treason the act of helping an enemy? I don't think Israel could be classified as an enemy.

So I guess the American public is an enemy of USGov since Edward Snowden is considered a traitor by many top USGov officials.

Anonymous Josh September 13, 2013 1:33 PM  

It's the fact that some U.S. officials and congressmen seem to mistake Israel for the 51st state that bothers me. 

If Israel actually became the 51st state, they would only have two senators instead of the roughly 80 or so they have now.

Blogger Nate September 13, 2013 1:41 PM  

"and the NRA would like to legalize machine guns."

You really shouldn't use subjects that you nothing about to make analogies.

Anonymous Krul September 13, 2013 1:47 PM  

Off Topic:

After seeing Joe Abercrombie's First Law Trilogy make second place on Vox's list of great fantasy epics after LOTR, I looked into it.

I read the first novel and found it very good, and I also found something interesting. Joe Abercrombie has commissioned some comic artists to turn the entire trilogy into a free online comic, updated M-W-F.

For those interested here's the First Law Comic.

Anonymous cheddarman September 13, 2013 1:52 PM  

Knowing the Israeli's habbit of selling U.S. military technology to our competitors, I would not be surprised if they do that with selected intelligence data. Vox' claim that this is treason may be on the mark.

Blogger Jordan179 September 13, 2013 1:57 PM  

Does it even slightly enter your heads that Israel's on the front line of the West against the Muslim jihad, and soaks up a lot of the enemy effort which would otherwise be directed against America and Europe? Oh no, wait ... there wouldn't even be a jihad if it wasn't for the existence of Israel, right? I'm sure that the countless attacks by the Muslims on (in a very partial order) the non-believing Arabs, the Persians, the Greeks, the North Africans, the Spanish, the French, the Indians, and the Christian inhabitants of the Balkans were solely because time-traveling Muslims informed them that in the future there would be a State of Israel ...

Anonymous Vidad September 13, 2013 2:03 PM  

"the NRA would like to legalize machine guns"

I wish. The NRA is a bad joke.

Anonymous fnn September 13, 2013 2:07 PM  

Does it even slightly enter your heads that Israel's on the front line of the West against the Muslim jihad, and soaks up a lot of the enemy effort which would otherwise be directed against America and Europe?

US-Israel has been *supporting* "the Muslim Jihad " in Syria for the last two years.

Anonymous Porky September 13, 2013 2:16 PM  

Is it even spying if we give them complete unfettered access like this?

Anonymous 11B September 13, 2013 2:30 PM  

Technically how is this treason? Isn't treason the act of helping an enemy? I don't think Israel could be classified as an enemy.

That's a good point. Connecting this to a previous post, then wouldn't it be treason for those advocating we help Al-Qaeda in Syria?

Anonymous Noah B. September 13, 2013 2:35 PM  

"...and the NRA would like to legalize machine guns."

Yes... how terrible it would be if citizens had the same rights as police. What a frightening world it would be if everyone were treated equally under the law.

Anonymous Eric Ashley September 13, 2013 2:42 PM  

If I wanted to be a pedantic snot, I could say 'sure they'd like it' (well most anyways, those who already own MG's who saw their guns drop in value might not), but a quick search reveals that the NRA has been expending zero effort for this proposal. So being devoted to truth and not pedantry, I'll withdraw the MG point, but the logic of the analogy still seems more sound than Vox's idea that this is a conspiracy. If its a conspiracy, its one to give the VAP what they want.

Which is what bites ya'll. Most Americans like Israel.

Anonymous Eric Ashley September 13, 2013 2:46 PM  

Noah, before some mad lynching starts like I endured over at Hoyt's place where being Conservative got turned into being a Commie scum....Let me state that I am in favor of the Right of Each and Every Adult American to own an M1A1 Abrams.

I'll draw the line at nukes, but I'm a statist that way.

Anonymous Josh September 13, 2013 2:54 PM  

I'll draw the line at nukes, but I'm a statist that way.

Commie

Anonymous cheddarman September 13, 2013 2:55 PM  

If I wanted to be a pedantic snot, I could say 'sure they'd like it' (well most anyways, those who already own MG's who saw their guns drop in value might not), but a quick search reveals that the NRA has been expending zero effort for this proposal. So being devoted to truth and not pedantry, I'll withdraw the MG point, but the logic of the analogy still seems more sound than Vox's idea that this is a conspiracy. If its a conspiracy, its one to give the VAP what they want.

Which is what bites ya'll. Most Americans like Israel. Eric Ashley


Eric, most people here probably like Israel, or have a live and let live towards them. what we don't like is how they milk us for foreign aid in one form or another.

Anonymous allyn71 September 13, 2013 2:57 PM  

"...and the NRA would like to legalize machine guns" - Eric Ashley September 13, 2013 1:24 PM

I would probably still be an NRA supporter if this was true.

Anonymous Jake September 13, 2013 3:00 PM  

Do I have to be the first to point out that the issue is NOT Israel spying on the U.S.A., but the NSA, an agency of the US government, giving the Israeli government a direct feed into their data... cause they asked nicely or something?

If it were revealed that Obama was giving actionable intelligence about US military movements to terrorists, would we say "I don't blame the terrorists"???

Blogger RobertT September 13, 2013 3:02 PM  

Stupid politicians. This should make it clear once and for all, they are just chess pieces on a game board. Or perhaps checker pieces. Or maybe just piggly wiggly pieces. If they thought they were the big cheeses running things, now they know better. The bureaucracy is the big hammer in this town and they may as well get used to t. And while, we're at it, quit making noises about cutting back on the bureaucracy or we'll turn those photos you emailed to that cute young lad over to the NY Times.

Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein September 13, 2013 3:09 PM  

Because JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 13, 2013 3:12 PM  

I think the topic of this thread is the obvious treason of the NSA. Israel, is a foreign power of dubious intentions at best, but cannot be held to a charge of treason.

I will add that, any American who thinks there is some unified, Islamic conspiracy to bring back the Caliphate, deserves Obama.

The Islamic Caliphate can be reestablished anytime the Turkish Parliament decides to surrender the powers and prerogatives thereof, since the Ottoman Empire was the last seat of that Caliphate.

Anonymous Noah B. September 13, 2013 3:24 PM  

"I will add that, any American who thinks there is some unified, Islamic conspiracy to bring back the Caliphate, deserves Obama."

Of those suggesting an attempt to revive the caliphate, I have yet to hear anyone suggest the conspiracy is "unified." If it were, obviously it would be unstoppable.

Anonymous Johnycomelately September 13, 2013 3:26 PM  

I wonder how would people respond if we substituted Israel with Muslims and pretended that all the Jews in the executive branch, military, finance, banking and CIA were Muslims?

Wouldn't there be an inclination to think that the US was a subject people?

Anonymous Che September 13, 2013 3:29 PM  

Please don't feel like you have to fight Muslims for us Americans. We can take care of ourselves. And good luck in Israel. You have the weapons. You know what you have to do.

Please encourage the members of your tribe to stop importing more Muslims into America. Really. We have to many Muslims already.

Please talk to the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society about it, will you? They don't seem to listen to us.

Thanks.

Anonymous Noah B. September 13, 2013 3:29 PM  

Not to mention, the word "conspiracy" connotes some degree of secrecy. The notion of a "unifed...conspiracy" is a bit nonsensical.

Anonymous ZhukovG September 13, 2013 3:37 PM  

@Noah B.

"Not to mention, the word "conspiracy" connotes some degree of secrecy. The notion of a "unifed...conspiracy" is a bit nonsensical."

I'll grant you that, but I will also add that even if they were unified, they would not be 'unstoppable'. Those countries have very little Arms industry and would need a powerful patron, who then would be the real threat.

Anonymous Noah B. September 13, 2013 3:42 PM  

I'll grant you that, but I will also add that even if they were unified, they would not be 'unstoppable'

What I meant was that the reunification of the caliphate would be unstoppable, not that the rest of the world could not stop the expansion of the caliphate.

Anonymous Noah B. September 13, 2013 3:44 PM  

Quite the opposite, they're heavily reliant on the rest of the world just for food.

Anonymous YIH September 13, 2013 3:45 PM  

QEric Astley:
and the NRA would like to legalize machine guns.
I can't agree. I can't think of any efforts by the NRA to ''legalize machine guns'' that was the 1938 Supreme Court case on whether the ''National Firearms Act'' is (or is not) constitutional according to the 2nd Amendment. The Supreme Court ruled that ''yes, it IS constitutional to restrict 'sawed-off shotguns' and 'machine guns' to those with a special licence issued by the Fed.
Did the NRA oppose it? No of course not, it always has been a ''hunter rights'' group. To them it was ''who needs sawed-offs and machine guns for hunting? Leave our hunting rifles and shotguns alone and we don't care''.
They've had many years to challenge Miller and have never lifted a finger to do so.

Anonymous Mike M. September 13, 2013 3:47 PM  

I expect the Israelis to try to get intel from the USA. It's their job to look after their country, not ours. But it's NSA's job to look out for OUR interests. And sharing raw take with ANYBODY is damned irresponsible. You're revealing sources & methods - the crown jewels of American intelligence. What we know is not as secret as how we know it.

And yes, I strongly suspect that the Democrats (and possibly the Israeli government) have been using intelligence for political purposes.

Anonymous nick digger September 13, 2013 3:49 PM  

Josh: "If Israel actually became the 51st state, they would only have two senators instead of the roughly 80 or so they have now."

I hope you slammed the mic on the stage after that one.

Anonymous Noah B. September 13, 2013 3:56 PM  

The Supreme Court ruled that ''yes, it IS constitutional to restrict 'sawed-off shotguns' and 'machine guns' to those with a special licence issued by the Fed.

You might find it surprising to read U.S. v. Miller -- it wasn't as strongly an anti-gun ruling as the collectivists would have you believe. The court held that a sawed off shotgun could be banned because that particular weapon was not of a type used by the military. On that issue, the court was factually wrong. While they narrowly upheld the application of the NFA to prohibit the possession of a sawed off shotgun, they simply did not address the possession of machine guns and other weapons that were unquestionably used by the military.

Part of the reason behind the court's twisted ruling was undoubtedly that they were afraid to oppose the tyrant FDR.

Anonymous CMC September 13, 2013 4:00 PM  

Remember that SNL skit where Will Ferrell imitates GW Bush making an announcement about what a great deal he made with the Chinese for the return of the US spy plane? For instance, America gets all its top secret documents back, but China can keep photocopies; the plane will be returned immediately, but only after its complete disassembly and examination by North Korean intelligence, etc. etc.?

Whaddya think the odds SNL does anything remotely like that, mutatis mutandi, for this?

Anonymous CMC September 13, 2013 4:03 PM  

"odds are that"

Pardon.

Anonymous Jake September 13, 2013 4:06 PM  

"Part of the reason behind the court's twisted ruling was undoubtedly that they were afraid to oppose the tyrant FDR."

Was it also the case that nobody even showed up to argue the case for Miller? In other words, we're to believe that the supreme court handed down this "important precedent" on a case in which they were factually in error (short-barreled shotguns most certainly WERE military weapons) and only heard arguments from one side of the case!

Sounds about par for the course for the justifications our gov. gives for it's tyrannical positions.

Anonymous nick digger September 13, 2013 4:07 PM  

"Does it even slightly enter your heads that Israel's on the front line of the West against the Muslim jihad, and soaks up a lot of the enemy effort which would otherwise be directed against America and Europe? "

How does spying on Americans' communications help the troops on their "front line"? Are Hezboolah using American cell phones to coordinate mortar strikes and disco bombings over there?

The attacks sustained in the US and Europe are due to their own incredibly stupid willingness to welcome into their borders, as immigrants or refugees, the muslims who are known since 586 AD to be hostile towards their immediate neighbors.

Anonymous Noah B. September 13, 2013 4:19 PM  

"Was it also the case that nobody even showed up to argue the case for Miller?"

Yes, definitely. I left that part out. The NRA certainly did not show up to argue in support of the Second Amendment, either.

Even though the ruling involved only one particular type of weapon that the court wrongly believed was not used by the military, ever since Miller, courts have acted as though the entirety of the NFA was upheld, even though the majority opinion clearly indicates otherwise. Most federal judges are too spineless to either overturn the foundation of national gun control or directly rule against the clear text of the Constitution, so just they pretend someone else already did it for them.



Anonymous YIH September 13, 2013 4:19 PM  

I'll draw the line at nukes, but I'm a statist that way.

Commie
Perhaps so, but you notice that North Korea has been able to ''stand us down''? We could turn North Korea ''into a radioactive parking lot'' if we wanted to. So what if Dennis Rodman wants to volunteer to be ''our ambassador'' to NK? We don't have one there. When NK gets tired of him we can simply say ''NK is his home now, he the US/NK Ambassador'' either kill him or expel him.

Anonymous YIH September 13, 2013 4:41 PM  

@Noah B.
You might find it surprising to read U.S. v. Miller -- it wasn't as strongly an anti-gun ruling as the collectivists would have you believe. The court held that a sawed off shotgun could be banned because that particular weapon was not of a type used by the military. On that issue, the court was factually wrong. While they narrowly upheld the application of the NFA to prohibit the possession of a sawed off shotgun, they simply did not address the possession of machine guns and other weapons that were unquestionably used by the military.
Do you know what it would take for me to own this?.
The Miller decision allowed the Fed to give me a proctological exam before granting me (or not) a ''licence'' to own one of these 'pea shooters' - because it's 'full auto'.
Do you know what it takes to get ''a licence'' to legally own one of those?
It might be easier for Vox to get ''a licence'' to legally own a firearm in Italy or Markku to get ''a licence'' to legally own a firearm in Finland.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm in error, Vox and Markku.

Anonymous 11B September 13, 2013 4:47 PM  

Does it even slightly enter your heads that Israel's on the front line of the West against the Muslim jihad, and soaks up a lot of the enemy effort which would otherwise be directed against America and Europe? Oh no, wait ... there wouldn't even be a jihad if it wasn't for the existence of Israel, right?.

What enters our heads is that the biggest supporters of Israel in the USA; AIPAC, ADL, the neo-cons, etc,. are also the biggest supporters of open borders in the USA which allows these jihadis into our nation in the first place.

Honestly, if you want paleocons like us to be more supportive of Israel, then for crying out loud stop trying to destroy the USA through third world, and muslim, immigration. It is hard for a guy like me to to want to jump on board with AIPAC or William Kristol whenever they tell me Israel is threatened because they are the ones who will label me as a racist for wanting to preserve my nation. Yet they expect me to drop everything to defend Israel.

The pro-Israeli crowd alienates many of us. And it is not just their positions on Israel, but because of their positions on US domestic politics.

Blogger JohnG September 13, 2013 4:48 PM  

We do spy on Israel. EUCOM does several daily updates on everything they do.

Anonymous Rusty September 13, 2013 4:48 PM  

Most Americans like Israel.

Yes, and that's because

1. Most American Christians think that Israel is filled with the Hebrews of the Bible.
2. Most Americans don't realize what the State of Israel is actually doing.
3. Most Americans are idiots.

Anonymous EH September 13, 2013 4:55 PM  

I had long suspected that Israel was blackmailing US politicians with electronic intercepts, and this news makes it almost a certainty.

The vast (and also numerous) American public may support Israel, but only because the mainstream media presents virtually only Israeli propaganda when it comes to Israeli interests. Any deviation is usually punished, certainly no show host can get away with calling Israel on its bullshit on a regular basis without getting fired.

Anonymous Sigyn September 13, 2013 5:20 PM  

Does it even slightly enter your heads that Israel's on the front line of the West against the Muslim jihad, and soaks up a lot of the enemy effort which would otherwise be directed against America and Europe?

And for this, they need to look at the silly photos of my mom's cat that I captioned and e-mailed to my friends three years ago?

I know, I know, they're tracking the movements of worshipers of Ceiling Cat, but I'm pretty sure Princess was ailurognostic.

Anonymous Noah B. September 13, 2013 5:26 PM  

@YIH

My point is that that feds' imposition of restrictions on fully-automatic weapon ownership do not logically follow from Miller. I am well aware of the numerous hoops the feds will make you jump through to own a machine gun, a silencer, or even something as innocuous as a .22 that looks like a pen (AOWs). And they will most certainly throw you in prison if they find that you've violated the provisions of the NFA.

It's not unusual for the ATF to alter semi-automatic firearms, operate them with ammo that's out of spec, and claim in court that they're fully automatic. They have even argued that a double barrel shotgun can be a machinegun if the pull of one trigger causes the other trigger to slip too.

Anonymous WaterBoy September 13, 2013 5:40 PM  

And yet, they don't do so classify a 450 round/minute, belt-fed semiautomatic rifle.

ATF is confused.

Anonymous Josh September 13, 2013 5:51 PM  

Oh, that's going on the Christmas list.

Our new household rule is birthdays are for hand guns, Christmas is for long guns.

Anonymous WaterBoy September 13, 2013 5:57 PM  

If you don't want to spend that much cash, the company -- Slide Fire -- makes bump stocks for other rifles, too.

Their home page has a demo video for the Ruger 10/22, for example.

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist September 13, 2013 7:04 PM  

@Jordan

Okay, I'll bite.

Sad things happen in distant corners of the world all the time. It's all very heartbreaking, but it isn't, nor should it be, my problem.

If two groups of people who belong to tribes I don't belong to and believe in religions I don't believe in want to have a fight to the death over some shitty, sunscorched, resourceless scrap of scrub desert on the other side of the planet, well, that's all very sad - but it's their problem, not mine. I'm sure both sides have long lists of grievances against the other and times when the other has been very naughty and therefore roundly deserves to be spanked. Perhaps. But it's not my job, it's not my problem, and I have every right to resist any attempt to make it my job or my problem.

Fight your own battles. Deal with your own enemies. Getting involved with your tribal/ethnic/religious battles, when they're really none of our damn business, has cost my country enough already. No more.

Anonymous George of the Vibrant Jungle September 13, 2013 7:26 PM  

You all seem to be grasping at straws...
It's J-Street.. no, no, it's Perl and the neo-cons... no, no, it's Soros... but wait, what about the Rothschild's, and maybe the Rockefeller's, and, and, Israel, and, and...

You're sure there's some deep dark vast Jewish conspiracy out there, and each one of you (possibly) has anecdotal evidence for your claims, but as for agreeing on the core people who are behind whatever it is you think is going on, I don't see much in the way of facts. Of course, you could then just say that "they" are so nefarious that they can hide themselves in plain sight, or something.

But here's my point... don't you think the real enemies in all this are the a**hole so-called Americans who allow themselves to be influenced and/or controlled by the bad Jews? Hmmmm? How does that happen, anyway? Are the Jews so mesmerizing, so filled with cash, that their influence is absolutely unstoppable? I don't know, you libertarians are pretty tiresome on this subject. And what's more, you never propose any solutions.

Anonymous LES September 13, 2013 7:42 PM  

Well, George, the issue as usual is real estate as in Genesis 15:18
"...from the river in Egypt to the Euphrates River (in Iraq)."

As for the US we are in the thrall of the Christian Zionists with their pre-tribulation,
pre-millenial dispensationalism.

The only solution is continued education regarding the above.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 13, 2013 7:55 PM  

FUBAR Nation Ben September 13, 2013 1:15 PM
Technically how is this treason?



it's not. consider it 'artistic license' ( hey, you may as well put those fiction writer chops to some useful purpose ) on Vox's part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Three_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_3:_Treason



Eric Ashley September 13, 2013 1:24 PM
the NRA would like to legalize machine guns.



machine guns ARE legal. my uncle owned a Thompson up until a couple of years ago. lot of recoil when you're throwing .45s downrange.




11B September 13, 2013 2:30 PM
wouldn't it be treason for those advocating we help Al-Qaeda in Syria?




very good, very good.

that's a point i made over a week ago.




WaterBoy September 13, 2013 5:57 PM
Their home page has a demo video for the Ruger 10/22, for example.




you know ... i think the 10/22 is a knock off of the mini-14.

Anonymous Ulmer Miller September 13, 2013 8:11 PM  

Intercepting politicians' e-mails? Makes you wonder what they have on Rand Paul...

Anonymous nick digger September 13, 2013 8:24 PM  

"1. Most American Christians think that Israel is filled with the Hebrews of the Bible."

My first clue that this was not the case, was the look on a rabbi's face when I asked him if they stoned homosexuals over there.

Anonymous E. PERLINE September 13, 2013 8:26 PM  

Middle Eastern Christians are suffering at the hands of Al Quaida and we're looking daggers at Israel? Some brilliant strategy. If we were smart we wouldn't bomb Syria. We would bomb Iran. That's where the real danger will come from.

Anonymous nick digger September 13, 2013 8:36 PM  

"libertarians are pretty tiresome on this subject. And what's more, you never propose any solutions."

I'm sure you understand why anyone would be reluctant to propose a "solution" to the Jew problem.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 13, 2013 8:59 PM  

E. PERLINE September 13, 2013 8:26 PM
We would bomb Iran.



right after we bomb Saudi. at least Iran is Shia and stands in opposition, Saudi is the Sunni funding center for Al Qaeda.

this is choice, right here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-13/head-syrian-rebels-calls-terrorist-attacks-america

Anonymous jack September 13, 2013 9:03 PM  

WaterBoy September 13, 2013 5:40 PM

And yet, they don't do so classify a 450 round/minute, belt-fed semiautomatic rifle.

ATF is confused.

My question would be, with this slide fire technology, just how accurate the firearm would be. The tech 'bumps' the firearm to 'stimulate' fast fire? Knowing nothing but what I just read at the link, I would guess not very accurate. I would not want to try and hold on target with a rifle in my hands that was bumbing me multiple times a second.
So you spew out 450 rds min. If they are all over the terrain what you would be doing is scaring the heck out of people downrange and emptying out your wallet. Assuming this thing is as inaccurate as I think it may be.

Blogger Nate September 13, 2013 9:08 PM  

"The Miller decision allowed the Fed to give me a proctological exam before granting me (or not) a ''licence'' to own one of these 'pea shooters' - because it's 'full auto'."

No. It didn't.

The Miller Decision flat out said any military weapon was protected by the second amendment. But no one argued that the sawed off shotty was a military weapon. Which by the way.. it was.

The law wasn't struck down... and thus... it was reported that the law was constitutional... which is the exact opposite of what Miller actually said.

The court decided one thing... but because of the superficial outcome of the decision... Mr Miller went to jail... the law stood.

Anonymous bob k. mando September 13, 2013 10:04 PM  

US Mil foursquare against Syria air strikes:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-13/military-times-survey-75-troops-oppose-strikes-syria

Blogger Tom Simon September 13, 2013 11:40 PM  

Nick Digger:

I'm sure you understand why anyone would be reluctant to propose a "solution" to the Jew problem.

Yeah, that would be because there is no such thing as ‘the Jew problem’. It is a figment of an evil and deranged imagination.

But that’s not what you had in mind, is it?

Blogger Baloo September 13, 2013 11:49 PM  

"Frenemy" indeed! Appropriate graphic here:
Our Staunchest Frenemy!

Blogger Whiskey September 14, 2013 1:09 AM  

Vox are you that blind? Really? Why why why would the NSA give all that data? What do they get out of it? The NSA and Barack Hussein Obama don't do favors. This is a "five eye" style outsourcing of spying on Americans ala James Bamford's Puzzle Palace.

Why not the UK or Australia?

Bc Israel has lots of Arabic speakers.

Vox you really are a sucker here. An easy mark for the wrong conspiracy.

The real deal is Hussein does not trust his Muslim pals in the US and rather than have Bradley aka 'Chelsea' Manning and Ed Snowden listen in they gave all the signals to the Israelis. Obama talks like Jimmy Carter but acts like Nixon.

As for blackmail, I give you Barack Husein Obama. Blackmail is not possible when people want to believe. Or we don't have any shame. And we don't as a nation.

Your comenters ought to avoid Vegas. They took the sucker bait. Don't point and sputter like a lib. Ask yourself what Hussein gets out of it.

I'm sure we have similar deals with the other eyes. Bamford asserted as much. To get around domestic spying restrictions. And vice versa. Merkel has been very quiet on Snowdens German spying revelations. Unlike Brazil

Blogger Whiskey September 14, 2013 1:36 AM  

For those who hate Jews, wait twenty years. With ultra low birthrates and heavy outmarriage particularly Jewish guys Asian women, that's guaranteed in a generstion or three.

American Protestants (as opposed to Catholics, my Irish mom was never given or made to read the bible unlike my Protestant father who could quote it extensively) read the bible and thus identify with Jews aka Jesus cousins. Protestants also generally hold God has a covenant with them, and does not break his word thus Jews share in Gods word. And his promise. Compare contrast literacy in Ireland say 1950 with Iowa same period.

Catholics tend to hate Jews as being a pre literate version of Christianity they accept blindly the priest (who likely buggered them as kids) that 'the Jews killed Jesus' etc. Protestants are different. Unlike Catholics, sustained Bible study is mandatory. You can't read the bible and not like the heroes who were all Jews. Including Jew number one. Jesus.

Jews of course don't like Protestant admiration bc it comes with the premise that God can love other people and while they are the first they are not the only.

Side note. It is telling that converts to Catholicism are childless, mostly, and that among highly educated couples with kids, it has the distinct odor of child buggery. The fall of White American and European Catholicism is likely the result of badly closeted gays buggering boys and educated parents dropping the Church. No wonder most Catholics are mostly illiterate Third Worlders. Which given the magnificent heritage of the Church 100-1500 is a shame. Chartres Cathedral is a magnificent achievement were the Crusades.

I am sure this is filled with typos, stupid tablet keyboard.

Anonymous nick digger September 14, 2013 2:41 AM  

Tom Simon: "Yeah, that would be because there is no such thing as ‘the Jew problem’. It is a figment of an evil and deranged imagination."

That evil and deranged imagination must be a triple-recessive gene present in every race around the globe. In all those other countries, where they'd had Jews living among them for so long, the natives just woke up one day and decided their guests were no long welcome, and set about to burning houses and building walk-in ovens. Surely, it was the funny hats, or the smells wafting from their kitchens -- the petty nuisances that get on anyone's nerves -- that suddenly triggered that dormant gene. In everyone.

It's a good thing we practice melting pot diversity over here, daily exposed to different wardrobes and cuisine and hairstyles, that such an outbreak of evil derangitude should never be possible. I mean, who doesn't like bagels, right?

Anonymous p-dawg September 14, 2013 3:18 AM  

@swiftfoxmark2:

Moses was a Levite, not a Jew.

Blogger Unknown September 14, 2013 6:26 AM  

Whiskey is what happens when you enjoyed the rabbi sucking the blood from your penis after your circumcision as a baby a little bit too much.

Jews are almost singularily responsible for most of this country's: feminism; "multiculturalism" (anti white essentially), faggotry etc

But no, I forgot, you're a brainwashed imbecile who has been indoctrinated to always love and defend Jews because that one Austrian guy chose to gas them like rats.

The overwhelming majority of "scotch-irish" are normal. The influential ones in the US are like a parasite and your country would literally be better off if they disappeared.

Anonymous Sigyn September 14, 2013 8:34 AM  

Someone tell me when God decreed that genocide was okay if it was Jews. Please. I have a source for taking out Amalekites, but I seem to have missed the one about Jews.

The speed with which even the more "rational" people jump to extremes nowadays doesn't do anything to convince me that individual liberty is a good thing.

Anonymous Storm Saxon's Gall Bladder September 14, 2013 9:13 AM  

Well, since Holder's Justice Dept is not allowed to investigate radial mosques in the USA i suppose someone ought to keep track of the jihadii who have US Citizenship. When the Brotherhood no longer controls our Presidency our knowledge of domestic salafi is going to be eight (or twelve) years out of date. Maybe they'll share back with us then, when we have a government willing to listen to the warnings.

Anonymous Festus September 14, 2013 9:26 AM  

you know ... i think the 10/22 is a knock off of the mini-14.

Not really.
The mini is basically a Garand type action (gas/piston operation), the 10/22 is a straight blowback design.

Anonymous Full-Fledged Fiasco September 14, 2013 10:12 AM  

Great, now we have Whisky babbling his idiocy here too.

Anonymous Howard Bernstein September 14, 2013 10:26 AM  

"Jews are almost singularily responsible for most of this country's: feminism; "multiculturalism" (anti white essentially), faggotry etc"

Replace "Jews" with PEOPLE. Then you would be correct.

Anonymous Shut Up, Nate September 14, 2013 10:28 AM  

The Second Amendment protects only the ownership of military-type weapons appropriate for use in an organized militia.

Blogger James Dixon September 14, 2013 11:10 AM  

> The Second Amendment protects only the ownership of military-type weapons appropriate for use in an organized militia.

That would include tactical nukes then, I take it.

Anonymous 11B September 14, 2013 1:34 PM  

I've seen Whiskey on several blogs. He is always the one who lectures people on blaming the Jews. Yet he does the same thing that he complains others do to the Jews. Whether it is White Women or Catholics, he treats them as monolithic and tries to assign them blame for a wide range of social ills.

Anonymous p-dawg September 14, 2013 7:41 PM  

@Sigyn:

When commanded to go to war by the Creator, the order is always to kill everyone. Men, women, children, dogs, cats, whatever. Kill 'em all, burn their cities, salt the earth. That's what you do in a holy war. Now, whether this particular issue a holy war or not is another question. But it's pretty silly to claim that the Creator doesn't support genocide when He has specifically ordered it in several cases. Can you find me one example where the Creator ordered anyone to go to war but not target certain people or to take prisoners? I can't seem to locate any.

Anonymous fritz September 15, 2013 2:16 AM  

I certainly have my own thoughts on the matter. I have expressed this several times in the recent past. Allow others to speak for me. My fingers are tired:

Amplification of Issue at Hand (nice try, but poor exegesis)

Proof That Said "Amplification" is a Red Herring (St. John is a human genius.)

A Word on The Jews (A scapegoat?)

A Word on Islam (created by the same scapegoat formulators?)

Dawkins is an antisemite?!? Say it isn't true!

Anonymous FrankNorman September 16, 2013 9:33 AM  

Krul September 13, 2013 1:47 PM

Off Topic:

After seeing Joe Abercrombie's First Law Trilogy make second place on Vox's list of great fantasy epics after LOTR, I looked into it.

I read the first novel and found it very good, and I also found something interesting. Joe Abercrombie has commissioned some comic artists to turn the entire trilogy into a free online comic, updated M-W-F.

For those interested here's the First Law Comic.


And now I'm wasting time in the office reading that webcomic...

Nice quote from it (secret police types arresting someone at night, confronted over it...)

"Gentlemen, please. We are on the King's Business."
"The king conducts his business in the day-time!"
"That's why he needs us for the night-time stuff, eh, friend?"

Blogger Tom Simon September 18, 2013 12:48 AM  

nick digger: That evil and deranged imagination must be a triple-recessive gene present in every race around the globe.

Yeah. In Christian theology, they call it ‘original sin’. It is no more a ‘Jew problem’ than drunk drivers running over pedestrians is a ‘pedestrian problem’.

You seem eager to excuse all the people who rise up and commit pogroms against the Jews in their midst; but then, as soon as the Jews are exiled from those countries and sent to a country of their own, you are even more eager to excuse those same people for wanting the Jews wiped out even there. Where is a Jew supposed to go in this world, according to your lights?

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