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Thursday, November 14, 2013

Mailvox: A European perspective

A Spanish reader weighs in concerning my comments on the different challenges faced by Western civilization in Europe and North America:
I have been following your posts for several years and, although I never had an interest in fantasy, I just started reading The Wardog's Coin. (I figured that since I enjoy so much your thoughts on economics, politics, and gender issues, I should also check the fiction.)

After reading you post titled “Why there is hope for Europe” I would like to share some thoughts with you about the differences between the situations on both sides of the Atlantic. Perhaps I should begin this by mentioning that I am European, Spanish to be precise.

In your article, you enumerate these three differences:

1.    Parliamentary systems
2.    Trans-ideological nationalism
3.    No popular pro-immigrant mythology

I agree with the first, not so much with the other two. But, most importantly, I would add two that I consider crucial.

1.    America’s immigration problem is with Spanish-speaking (mostly) Christians, whereas Europe’s is with (mostly) Muslims. I am really surprised that you did not include this one among your three differences.

The Americans’ memory of the Mexican War or the Spanish-American War is nothing compared to the Europeans’ memory of centuries fighting against Islam (almost 800 years in the case of Spain). Not to sound patronizing, but can an American wrap his head around the idea of a national identity forged in a conflict that triples the age of the United States of America (711 A.D. to 1492 vs. 1776 to 2013)? Some things are so big that they are routinely overlooked.

An American notices a South American moving into his neighborhood and he may have some very valid concerns, if nothing else, as a taxpayer. But he never really fears that Juan Garcia is going to show up one day in a subway station and blow himself up killing dozens of innocents. Our American John Doe has never witnessed Juan Garcia peeing in broad daylight on the façade of an American church. John might fear that his baby girl will marry Juan and then he’d have to attend a Catholic wedding, he does not fear that his baby girl will spend the rest of her life in a burka. He may fear that his grandchildren will play soccer rather than American football, he does not fear that they will learn how to behead infidels (like John himself).

In Europe, you find croissants, which were created in the image of a crescent to be eaten in defiance of the Muslim invaders centuries ago. You find Spanish families named Matamoros, literally 'Moor-slayer'. And so on. In Europe, a nationalist party has plenty of symbolism to use against immigrants. There is absolutely nothing in the American culture against South Americans even remotely resembling that deeply rooted pathos. The closest thing being what? The ballad of El Álamo?

Plus, a South American is not going to tell our John Doe to stop eating burgers, but a Muslim cannot tolerate jamón, and to a Spaniard jamón is several orders of magnitude more important than the national flag, the national anthem, and the King, combined.

Worse still, after two devastating world wars and a traumatic cold war dividing the continent, Europeans happily (hippily?) embraced this kumbayah idea that if you don't annoy others then they will leave you in peace. This was not meant only between France and Germany or between the metropolis and the former colonies, but in a vaguely general universal sense. So it is now particularly vexing to receive so much animosity from some immigrants (while the official politically correct tune goes on unaltered). America has not at all gone through such an emotional roller-coaster; you see, it happened over there.

So John Doe is not that concerned; certainly not as concerned as his European counterparts.

2.    If I am not very mistaken, immigration in the US is very concentrated in the Sunbelt. Whereas In Europe, immigration in Scandinavia, Britain, and Germany is as much an issue as it is in Spain and Italy. This would be equivalent to Alaska, the Dakotas, and Vermont having as much an issue with immigrants as Texas and California. Clearly, they don’t. (Again, this is not to overlook the federal fiscal implications.)

Plus, European towns are typically much more densely populated and geographically contiguous, so much so that you can actually walk from one neighborhood to another, so when a neighborhood suffers it is much more evident to all and so it is easier to genuinely worry, to empathize (even if the media tries to ignore it). But urban sprawl in the US, I suspect, has had a detrimental effect on what Ibn Khaldun called Asabiyyah, the nation's social cohesion, by creating some sort of watertight compartments. An American neighborhood goes to hell and the people over the county border do not even notice because, to begin with, they'd need to drive there to notice but they never go (and the media dutifully ignores it). By the way, I think this phenomenon also helps explain why American Conservatives in the last presidential election where so mistaken about their real chances, they have lost sight of the nation by living inside a monochromatic bubble (Dems too, but their aggregated Blue State bubbles are demographically larger, it seems).

I think these two points are much more powerful than the pro-immigrant mythology. Indeed, it was, in part, because of the strength of this mythology all across Europe that so many nations made it so easy for immigrants to move in.

Finally, all this relates to perceptions, not necessarily actual threats, and to how easily and how much political parties can gain from that fear and what they do with that. Almost every Muslim I have personally met in Europe is too busy making a living to spoil it by going radical. And since they often live in several European countries before they settle down it is quite normal for many of them to speak several European languages. And let's not forget that it was not them who drafted or even voted for all the idiotic legislation that's gotten us into this mess (ditto for South Americans in the US). Obviously if it was all bad news then all the continent would be soaked in blood once again. But the really amusing twist (and isn't History rich in amusing twists?) is that these growing nationalist parties have much more in common with what most adult Muslims have seen in their own homelands than with the political parties that have dominated Europe since 1945. Perhaps they will feel more at home? It's not a cruel cheap joke. After all, General Franco, won the Spanish Civil War (1936-39) with the help of the African volunteers, his beloved Moorish Guards. Perhaps the key to real multicultural understanding was not to be found in kumbayah Social-democracy but in something better time-tested.
He's entirely correct to call me to account on my failure to mention the demographic differences concerning the two invasions, especially since I've written about them in the past. Most Americans are astonished to learn that Muslims make up less than 5 percent of the European population, whereas Hispanics make up around 20 percent of the U.S. population.

As one American friend was surprised to observe, she saw more Muslims on her last visit to Minneapolis than she did in Rome.  Londonistan and Amstarabia no more indicate the Muslim occupation of Europe than New York City proves that most Americans are Jews.

That being said, our Spanish friend is incorrect about the invasion of the U.S. being primarily concentrated in the Sunbelt. It is certainly most severe in the four Sand States, but when Somalis are being elected in St. Paul and entire neighborhoods are being renamed to reflect who is now controlling them, the idea that the problem is localized is clearly incorrect. To put it in the proper perspective, there are only about 4x more Muslims in Europe per capita than there are Somalis in Minnesota. 

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114 Comments:

Blogger Crude November 14, 2013 4:04 PM  

I can assure you that there are immigration issues far, far from the Mexican border in the US.

One of the bigger fights in the past few years took place in Hazleton, PA. Look at the latino population for that city, and when it changed to be what it is. Now look at where PA is on the map (I mean, everyone knows, but still - just to emphasize the point.)

Anonymous Alexander November 14, 2013 4:14 PM  

The Latinos are much, much more thorough - though that could simply be the advantage of superior relative strength to the Muslims.

In Europe, it seems that Muslims are very heavily concentrated in major urban areas and pretty much no where else. But you now go to any non-Alabama town of any size in the south and you've got a significant core of Mexicans. There is fast no countryside to escape to.

That seems like it *should* be an advantage to making the natives waking up, but I think here there is something to be said for the fact that yes, I'm not particularly worried about the threat of local latinos beheading me and then buggering my corpse.

Anonymous DrTorch November 14, 2013 4:17 PM  

The letter writer brings up some good points, but I repeat what Crude says, the immigration of various minorities extends far from the sunbelt.

Plenty of controversy re: S&C Americans coming to No. Virginia...look at the referendum in Herndon a few years ago. And there are discussions of entire towns in Iowa that have transitioned.

As for muslims, certainly Somalis in Minneapolis, Columbus and Nashville are issues, but Detroit/Dearborn is the central locale. They built that large mosque on I-75 in Toledo in the early '80s.

Another difference is the US sees much less violence and disdain by muslims than has Europe, both contemporarily, and of course, historically.

Anonymous Anonymous November 14, 2013 4:21 PM  

There is plenty of non-Juan immigration here in Virginia. Far too much to call it "rare" any longer.

The other big difference between Europe and America is Serfdom. The inhabitants of Europe are the inheritors of institutions and governments that prospered and grew out of serfdom and they continue to treat their populations as Aristocrats to serfs. America was settled by those people fleeing serfdom and feudal European traditions and institutions and they created institutions and traditions here to defy it. I have no illusions how many Americans can be counted on to habitually practice freedom and liberty, but such words, traditions and practices are still ingrained in our American culture (the one that is being erased).

--Hale

Anonymous Krul November 14, 2013 4:25 PM  

Spaniard - In Europe, you find croissants, which were created in the image of a crescent to be eaten in defiance of the Muslim invaders centuries ago.

I'm ashamed that I didn't already know this. Nevertheless, this is really cool. I'll never look at croissants the same way again, now that I know the mere act of eating one is a statement of defiance against the jihad.

Anonymous Anonymous November 14, 2013 4:27 PM  

Spaniard - In Europe, you find croissants, which were created in the image of a crescent to be eaten in defiance of the Muslim invaders centuries ago.

I still prefer the more bloody forms of defiance. They just seem more effective.

--Hale

Anonymous Josh November 14, 2013 4:32 PM  

This might be one of the most insightful letters you've posted.

Blogger Res Ipsa November 14, 2013 4:34 PM  

That comment was one of the better critics of your posts.

One point that he failed to mention is that the US already has an underclass that despite 140 years to integrate into the culture refuses to do so in a productive way. Then added to that group is another racially identifiable population that remains culturally separate. Then on top of that, the other smaller immigrant groups have learned to "cluster" when the come over, which is why Dearborn MI feels free to jail Christians when their presence offends Muslims.

The US is fracturing socially more than it is being overrun

Anonymous Josh November 14, 2013 4:34 PM  

Plus, a South American is not going to tell our John Doe to stop eating burgers, but a Muslim cannot tolerate jamón, and to a Spaniard jamón is several orders of magnitude more important than the national flag, the national anthem, and the King, combined.

I'm not sure we Americans will ever understand how important food is to European cultures. The closest analogue I can think of over here is cajun and creole in Louisiana.

Anonymous DrTorch November 14, 2013 4:49 PM  

One point that he failed to mention is that the US already has an underclass that despite 140 years to integrate into the culture refuses to do so in a productive way.

Just one?

Anonymous ThirdMonkey November 14, 2013 4:49 PM  

Most people, including myself, fell for the asimilation lie. Much of the Southwest became part of the US at the end of the Mexican War in 1848. It's been over 150 years, and integration never really happened. My American ancestors of English and German stock moved to the Southwest in the 1880s, yet our culture in many ways is more Spanish than English. Now that we have had an influx of vibrants from the south, how can we expect 20 percent of the population who has no historical or cultural ties to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution to become part of us? Even our current immigration policy is not an American idea. It's a nightmare created by a drunk Irish Senator. As VD has pointed out earlier, if we can't even manage to assimilate the Kennedy clan, how can we assimilate the Chihuahuans, Hmong, and Somalis?

Anonymous Salt November 14, 2013 5:01 PM  

He says John Doe is really not that concerned. I'd ask, which John Doe?

For all the failings of WASPish Americans, a large number are stil wasps and getting restless.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 November 14, 2013 5:06 PM  

The closest analogue I can think of over here is cajun and creole in Louisiana

Or pork BBQ in the Carolinas.
Or beef BBQ in Texas.

The poster is thoughtful, but doesn't sound like he's ever set foot in the US before.
The migrants are nominally Catholic, are mostly here illegally (unlike the EU muslims) and make unreasonable demands on the existing culture to overlook their DUI killings, the kidnappings and rapes, the murders, and the endless demands for more free shit. American John Doe, when he isn't thinking about that, knows somewhere in the recesses of his subconscious that he's going to get shafted in 1,000 other ways because both factions of his duly elected government want the Mexicans here more than him; one party for the dirt cheap labor, the other for the electoral fortress of votes they'll provide.

Anonymous B Lewis November 14, 2013 5:06 PM  

I hope you are not counting Texas among the "Sand States". Texas is not a particularly sandy state. We do have desert here, out in the western trans-Pecos, but it's mostly rolling grassland prairie and mountain land, not the sandy wastes of the type found in Arizona and New Mexico.

Texas could be more readily described as a Blackland Prairie State than as a 'Sand State". The typical Texas landscape resembles the rolling, forested hills of central Germany more than any desert.

Anonymous kh123 November 14, 2013 5:10 PM  

"look at the referendum in Herndon a few years ago."

Am assuming is this.

Barring (if I'm reading it correctly) the article's suggestion of a reverse gerrymander in order to, in effect, gerrymander to the benefit of a "dispersed" Spanish speaking population, my impression is that quite a bit of the Caucasian workpool for Fairfax County are programmers and the like. Add it's proximity to the Beltway and you have a not insignificant grouping of 20-to-40 somethings that are more than likely of the SWPL/Whatever variety. Doubly so since they probably have the same self-induced complex as Muslims in Paris - surrounded by backwater dhimmis and kufrs in a strange, strange land.

Blogger tz November 14, 2013 5:15 PM  

Not merely Somalis in MN, when I was in Owatonna, there were no shortage of bilingual (or tri-lingual, well, Faribault had English/Spanish/Somali) signs and such. But back when I still did carbs, they did have MexiCoke with cane sugar at the local Mills Fleet Farm gas station and several excellent mexican restaurants, one with multiple volleyball fields. Note both Owatonna and Faribault are along the I-35 "NAFTA" superhighway. Perhaps a tourniquet is appropriate for this artery. Or Torquemada.

Anonymous Anonymous November 14, 2013 5:16 PM  

In the rural Midwest, immigration varies greatly from town to town, depending on what industry happens to be there attracting them. Most small towns are still very white. But take a look at Beardstown, Illinois, which has a Cargill meat processing plant. It's the usual story: the plant, then owned by Oscar Mayer, was closed in 1987 when the average wage there was $8.75, then bought and reopened by Cargill with an average wage of $6.50 -- and suddenly meat-packing became a job Americans wouldn't do. By the year 2000 the white population was down to 90% with "Hispanic" counted at 17%. In recent years the focus has shifted to bringing workers from Africa (they must be cheaper than Mexicans), and the white population has dropped to under 75%.

The plant has been raided and given a slap on the wrist for employing illegals numerous times, of course. Everyone will tell you that things are going great, and they're thrilled to have the plant providing so many jobs, and it's really cool having a tri-lingual population (the Africans mostly come from French-speaking former colonies). But the whites who descended from the German stock that founded the town have been leaving -- from about 7000 in 1980 when it would have been nearly all white to around 4500 today.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope November 14, 2013 5:20 PM  

Would that all our critics were able to write such letters. Better written than about 95% of the native English speakers trained in American public schools (private too for that matter) would be able to pull off.

Is it really only 5% muslim immigrant in Europe? And what is the growth rate by decade? Because growth rates, fecundity rates, proselityzation rates, are very important in the long run.

I still don't think it will be peacefully resolved in either area. It will be bloody until people are so scared and sick of the bloodshed that they'll welcome any solution that seems like it will provide safety and security. For the children.

Anonymous civilServant November 14, 2013 5:22 PM  

to a Spaniard jamón is several orders of magnitude more important than the national flag, the national anthem, and the King, combined.

In America is is bacon.

But urban sprawl in the US, I suspect, has had a detrimental effect on what Ibn Khaldun called Asabiyyah, the nation's social cohesion, by creating some sort of watertight compartments.

In America the watertight compartmentation is rugged individualism - the idea of Me and forget everyone else - best exemplified by libertarianism which is political and cultural aspergers'.

Anonymous Anonymous November 14, 2013 5:27 PM  

But most Midwest towns aren't like Beardstown, so most rural Americans haven't dealt with many immigrants in person. They still buy the myth that today's immigration is just like that of their German/Irish forebears, who sometimes didn't learn English for a generation or two either, so they just need some time and encouragement to assimilate and everything will be fine.

Blogger Matamoros November 14, 2013 5:32 PM  

Spaniard: In Europe, you find croissants, which were created in the image of a crescent to be eaten in defiance of the Muslim invaders centuries ago.

Don't forget the pretzels and cross buns which also reminded Christians of their Faith.

Anonymous DaveD November 14, 2013 5:39 PM  

Pretty much every chain restaurant in Ohio has hispanics working the kitchen/dishwashing. Many golf courses hire only hispanics to do maintenance on the course. Part of that is it is really hard work that kids don't want to do anymore. The other part is that the pay has not gone up a penny except when dictated by law.

Blogger Rantor November 14, 2013 5:55 PM  

The writer made a couple of points. I grew up in Arizona, a conservative state with a large Hispanic population. MECHA, the Hispanic nationalist movement was active at my high school. They are pure seperatists and want to reclaim territories for Mexico. They may not be a majority of the Hispanic community, but I doubt that many of their own will oppose them.

Concentrations of Muslims are similar, most of them just want to get along but a minority are pushing for Muslim rights, holidays, and prayer rooms. A smaller minority is pushing for violent jihad against the west. There has been very little evidence that the majority of Muslims will oppose their more motivated brothers.

Finally, I was in Berlin last week, my SPD-liberal brother in law is convinced there are no real problems with the Muslim guest workers in Germany. He doesn't see a threat and is convinced that the guest workers are needed. To me it is very visible. When I first moved to Berlin, nearly thirty years ago, there were many Turks filling the guest worker role. They worked hard and sent money back to family. They prospered. Today they have their families with them, children raised in Germany and grandchildren. They want their kids to be raised like Turkish kids. So now you see more and more older girls and women in Muslim robes, you see them pushing for holiday recognition in schools, and you will eventually see them asking to be included in the church tax system. (Voluntary 2% of income I think). The growth appears to be significant, and as I think they are having more children than the Germans (per capita average) it continues.

Have a croissant!

Blogger John Williams November 14, 2013 6:01 PM  

This would be equivalent to Alaska, the Dakotas, and Vermont having as much an issue with immigrants as Texas and California.
Don't stereotype Alaska. We have over 6,000 (some say almost 10,000) H'Mong in Anchorage and the policy of life in the Highlands of Vietnam was "the law is what you can enforce" has led the menfolk in other states to legal trouble, they seem to keep a low profile here with everything but their restaurants. The Somoans and Tongans are far more numerous and cops have told me that 'every shooting in town has a Somoan involved" but I've found them to be the most laid back easy going BBQers of chicken you've ever met. I was once, mistakenly, thought to owe money that was to be collected by some Somoans and I was fairly concerned for my health and safety. I was able to explain I wasn't who they thought I was and that they were at the wrong address, but I did learn they can switch between laid back and gentle to fearsome and full of menace (and vice versa) at will. There are at least 59 languages spoken the Anchorage Public Schools I saw in a recent news story where they were discussing how the white students were vastly more successful academically than the minorities. Then there's the 3 Halal grocery stores in town that I figured were for all the Nigerians and Somalis that are everywhere. Lastly, off a big commercial strip, Dimond, there's a block where the whole northern half is a Muslim Community Center that is slowly being built.

I figure that if Alaska is seeing immigration like this, everywhere in the US is.

Anonymous 11B November 14, 2013 6:06 PM  

In Europe, you find croissants, which were created in the image of a crescent to be eaten in defiance of the Muslim invaders centuries ago. You find Spanish families named Matamoros, literally 'Moor-slayer'.

Reminds me of the flag of Sardinia.

Blogger John Williams November 14, 2013 6:17 PM  

The Flag of Sardinia also looks like a cropped Templar battle flag.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope November 14, 2013 6:43 PM  

Hmmm. This gives me an idea for a future stealth meme.
Got to get to work on my photoshopping skills, and get it out there sometime in 2013.
Hint: it involves croissants.

Anonymous Res Ipsa November 14, 2013 7:09 PM  

DrTorch,

Most of the other immigrants make an effort to integrate. Asians may cluster but they get their kids into good schools or work together in a business with the idea of them becoming prosperous. As much as people dislike 1st generation paki's and indis, both groups work to have their children integrated and successful. Blacks and Hispanics don't integrate well. Both groups are disproportionate users of social services. Neither group is a net producer of tax revenue.


Anonymous DonReynolds November 14, 2013 7:21 PM  

This Spanish gentleman is correct about some things and dead wrong about others, while preserving the European smug "you Americans, have not been doing it as long as we have" routine. Where in hell does he suppose the overwhelming majority of Americans come from? My Swiss relatives crossed the Channel with William almost a thousand years ago. Americans have a pre-Colombian history of their own that includes every nation and kingdom in Europe, including his own.

Vox is completely correct. The hispanic invasion is no longer confined to the border states or even those states once claimed by the Spanish Crown. Even New England, the Deep South, and the Mid-West are swamped with illegal aliens, primarily from Mexico.

Anonymous Stilicho November 14, 2013 7:42 PM  

Interesting points, but the Mexican illegals are third worlders with no more concept of western civilization than the Muslims the Spaniard decries. Their animistic Catholicism has not proven to be any more compatible with Anglo-Saxon liberty than has the Islamic faith. They are just as alien in this land as is a Muslim in Andalusia and a far greater economic burden.

Anonymous 11B November 14, 2013 7:46 PM  

Regarding the Hispanic, or more specifically the Mexican, invasion of the USA, consider this quote from the Pew Hispanic Research Center, dated April 23, 2012.

The U.S. today has more immigrants from Mexico alone—12.0 million—than any other country in the world has from all countries of the world.

Keep in mind the above quote JUST counts immigrants, i.e. those born in Mexican now living in the USA. It does not include the American-born children, grandchildren, etc. of those immigrants.

Whether they are less troublesome than muslims at this point is immaterial. The bottom line is there are a heck of a lot of them and their mother country, which has a land dispute with us, is right on our border. To try to minimize the potential problems of this situation is wishful thinking.

Anonymous VD November 14, 2013 7:53 PM  

These cultures have adapted, and they've adopted the democratic and republican institutions given by the founders.

No, they most certainly have not. And there are FAR more historical examples of invasion and displacement than integration.

Anonymous VD November 14, 2013 7:55 PM  

They said the same thing about the Jews, the Italians, the Irish and the Russian immigrants. And they were wrong too. Shame on you.

They weren't wrong. The Jews and the Irish so completely failed to get it that their elected representatives were responsible for the destruction of America.

You're not only a willful idiot, you're a historical ignoramus.

Anonymous scoobius dubious November 14, 2013 7:58 PM  

"the US already has an underclass that despite 140 years to integrate into the culture refuses to do so in a productive way."

Heh. And the US also has an OVERclass that despite 140 years to integrate refuses to do so in a meaningful or even non-malignant way. Life is full of ironies, innit.


Anonymous VD November 14, 2013 8:07 PM  

Go away, Real American Troll. No one who mindlessly repeats "shame on you" and "ignorant, just ignorant" is intellectually capable of participating in the discourse here. Goodbye.

Anonymous Res Ipsa November 14, 2013 8:31 PM  

scoobius dubious

And your point is?

Blogger redlegben November 14, 2013 8:47 PM  

I like new Vox.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope November 14, 2013 8:48 PM  

Real American. Yeah, kind of like that "real American" radio personality who went on the air on 9/10/2011. Who is pretty obviously not really assimulated to the founding father's vision of America yet either.

Blogger Doom November 14, 2013 9:37 PM  

I believe your European friend caught the gist of what I have said here a dozen times. And been ignored. And you are still incorrect. It's in the numbers. Left as they are, the U.S. will become Mexico, because Mexicans will not tolerate muslims. Europe will become Turkey, at best. As you have said a thousand times, it's the demographics.

Argue all you want. That is how the numbers present. Just because your former stupid state is going muslim doesn't mean the rest of the country will, or that will stand in the face of the rest of the incursion.

Anonymous Jack Amok November 14, 2013 9:53 PM  

Spaniard - In Europe, you find croissants, which were created in the image of a crescent to be eaten in defiance of the Muslim invaders centuries ago.

I still prefer the more bloody forms of defiance. They just seem more effective.


Yes but croissants are French you know. Go away or I shall mock you with another pastry...

As to Mexican immigrants outside of the sun belt, I live outside Seattle in a dinky little rural town with less than 10,000 people. We have a Tienda, and so does the next little town down the valley from us. I was in downtown Redmond today and 3 out of every 4 people I saw on the street was non-white. Granted it was the middle of the afternoon when most of us honkeys are working to pay for everybody's free crap, but it definitely gave me the "foreigner in my own country" feeling.

And I'm not exactly what you would call a xenophobe.

Anonymous The Real American November 14, 2013 10:02 PM  

"And I'm not exactly what you would call a xenophobe. "

Sure you are.

But what I'm wondering is if you and the rest of the ZenoGang understand that you are the last vestiges of a racist element that has infected the United States for far too long and in the process held this country back from real greatness?

Anonymous Huckster November 14, 2013 10:06 PM  

"But what I'm wondering is if you and the rest of the ZenoGang understand that you are the last vestiges of a racist element that has infected the United States for far too long and in the process held this country back from real greatness?"

STFU. You are the first to go when the uprising happens, and I'll be leading the gang that takes you and your family. Keep it up

Anonymous Res Ipsa November 14, 2013 10:13 PM  

in the process held this country back from real greatness?

How?

Who was held back?

We've been paying welfare for more than 40 years, if your not white and even semi literate you can go to any college you want, if your not white you can get loans to start business that are basically unsecured, the same is true for 1st generation immigrants, if your not white you get preference in hiring for government jobs, where are all the advances made for the benefit of society that these racial groups you champion should have created by now?

Anonymous kh123 November 14, 2013 10:14 PM  

"...the ZenoGang..."

Sardonic Canadians. And they're a gang now. F*cking dangerous this comment section is.

Anonymous dh November 14, 2013 10:17 PM  

Res--

Look at your own statement.

if your not white and even semi literate you can go to any college you want
And be saddled with loads of debt when/if you graduate. How does this help a minority get ahead?

if your not white you can get loans to start business that are basically unsecured
And being given loans for which you have no qualifications, how does this help a minority get ahead?

the same is true for 1st generation immigrants, if your not white you get preference in hiring for government jobs
When has any great advance come from a government worker?

where are all the advances made for the benefit of society that these racial groups you champion should have created by now?

Let's be honest. None of the things you are saying should be happening are reasonably expected to happen from these programs.

Welfare is a safety net. End of message. It is not a cure-all.

Anonymous Jack Amok November 14, 2013 10:18 PM  

Stuff it in your shit-eating pie hole, Real American I've got no idea what color your worthless skin is, but I'm through with your type. Fuck off.

Anonymous Noah B. November 14, 2013 10:22 PM  

"...you are the last vestiges of a racist element that has infected the United States for far too long and in the process held this country back from real greatness?"

Real greatness... you mean like Detroit?

Anonymous Jack Amok November 14, 2013 10:25 PM  

dh, you ask "how does this help a minority get ahead?"

It doesn't. But it does help ruin the country, and the minorities vote for it. And a bunch of SWPLs vote for it too so they can feel damned magnanimous about themselves, giving away other people's money to help these poor immigrants. We have a wannabe ruling class that counts on enough people having too damn short a time preference to do anything other than accept handouts from them,

Anonymous Res Ipsa November 14, 2013 10:34 PM  

And be saddled with loads of debt when/if you graduate. How does this help a minority get ahead?
When I was in college 20 plus years ago blacks got all kinds of grants & scholarships. Barack Husain Obama, I believe his net worth when he leaves office, including this campaign funds will exceed $1,000,000,000. Try getting in to Harvard Law with whatever your educational credentials are.

And being given loans for which you have no qualifications, how does this help a minority get ahead?
Access to subsided capital.

When has any great advance come from a government worker?
Government employment is compensated at a hire rate than comparable private sector work. Are you so dense as to not recognize that a cushy overpaid job, that has super job security is better than a job in the free market?

Let's be honest. None of the things you are saying should be happening are reasonably expected to happen from these programs.

Lets be honest, a racist, hate filled society does not provide these things. The US does. How can we be holding anyone back from a systematic standpoint? Not only do we give subsidies to minorities we have entire law enforcement divisions who do nothing but enforce laws designed to protect them.

Let me ask another question:
How can a thinking person believe that the USA is some hot bed of racial oppression?

Anonymous Res Ipsa November 14, 2013 10:35 PM  

Noah B.
Well Said!

Anonymous scoobius dubious November 14, 2013 10:37 PM  

"How does this help a minority get ahead?"

Why should minorities get ahead?

How and/or why is that a good thing?

Anonymous bob k. mando November 14, 2013 10:38 PM  

is this some bizarre muslim variation of Hultgreen-Curie? where they run around decapitating their friends on accident? is it racist that all muslims look alike to other muslims?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10449815/Al-Qaeda-linked-rebels-apologise-after-cutting-off-head-of-wrong-person.html


i dunno. maybe the mujahadeen should start wearing burkhas.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus November 14, 2013 10:39 PM  

Genocidal, cultural Marxist would-be purgers of the "racist element" are the same in Europe, the United States and Australia. Probably they are the same everywhere in the white world.

Our misfortunes are far more common to us all than they are distinct products of the unique culture and history of any particular historically white country.

Anonymous Jonathan November 14, 2013 10:40 PM  

@ Real American

last vestiges of a racist element

You want to see racism? Try living in an area populated by ghetto black folk. That environment makes Jim Crow south look like pikers.

Anonymous Anthony Walsh November 14, 2013 10:43 PM  

Does the Spaniard expect white Americans to begin justifying our existance because he started things off?

No race needs to justify it's existance... That's stupid!

Anti-whites need to justify their desire for White Genocide.

And, when they do we will mock them, knowing that we are fighting a spiritual, emotional war... Not one of mere facts.

"You aren't flooding the Asian countries with tens-of-millions of non-Asians until ONLY Asians become an ever dwindling minority.

You aren't FORCE assimilating the 50+ black countries with millions upon millions of non-blacks trying to create a Blended humanity in EVERY black country.

This MASSIVE inmigration plus FORCE assimilation is targeted at white countries. It's for EVERY white country and it's ONLY for white countries. It's genocide.

You say you are against "racism" but you're really just against whites.

More white people learn the simple truth that:

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white."

Laugh at the anti-whites...

"The devil cannot stand to be mocked" - Another good quote.

Best regards,

A.W.

Anonymous Jonathan November 14, 2013 10:48 PM  

Vox,

For another perspective on European long-term viability I would direct you to the recent censure of the Danish scientist Helmuth Nyborg. The panel of judges that censured him was stocked with three judges who had all been fierce critics of his in the past, one of whom had a long-standing feud with him due to a previous competition for an academic post that Nyborg had won. Further, Nyborg was not allowed to present a defense and the ruling was not appeal-able. Finally, the charges on which he was censured were preposterous. Those included the charge that Nyborg neglected to give co-authorship status to a collaborating researcher who explicitly asked to be left off the published paper due to the conclusions being politically incorrect.

I can't say one way or the other whether Europe has a brighter hope for the future than the US but Nyborg's ordeal certainly is evidence against Europe.

Anonymous nick digger November 14, 2013 10:49 PM  

I enjoyed this letter from the Spanish writer.

On Mexicans: He repeatedly refers to our Mexican immigrants as "South Americans". This is a grave insult to South Americans. I have often wondered when Spain will abandon Espanol, due to the embarrassment it brings by association with Mexicans.

"An American notices a [Mexican] moving into his neighborhood and he may have some very valid concerns... But he never really fears that Juan Garcia is going to show up one day in a subway station and blow himself up killing dozens of innocents."

Suicide bombings are a desperate form of attack, executed by the stupidest adherents of a stupid religion, and usually against their own people. Worrying about that is a waste of worry.

One Juan moving into the neighborhood is not as bad as one Don'Tavious, but one hundred Juans will turn an American neighborhood into a Mexican neighborhood. John Doe does not want to live in Mexico; if he did, he surely knows where to find it.

The next level of this problem is when their numbers are so great that "they own the place", as frequently seen in cities where blacks finally gain political control -- white civic employees are fired, and white businesses lose contracts, in favor of black cronies. Also consider the recent story out of New Mexico, where two Mexican police officers sodomized a white man, just for fun. Yes, they had assistance from a judge and a doctor, but that is an accurate description of what happened. "They own the place", so what's to stop them? Abuse of power is possible in all societies, but when a place is taken over by a race of people who have police corruption in their DNA, it's a big problem.

Also, John Doe's concern about his daughter marrying a Mexican is not to be taken lightly. There is nothing wrong with a Catholic wedding, but John's grandchildren will suffer at least a 10-point drop in I.Q., compared to having to white parents. Yes, it's not as bad as having her marry DaMarkis, but still.


"Our American John Doe has never witnessed Juan Garcia peeing in broad daylight on the façade of an American church."

This John Doe, and many others, has many times witnessed Juan pissing on buildings and walls, in broad daylight. Juan's puta has even more frequently been seen dropping dirty diapers on parking lots, on the ground, where there is a trash bin 100 feet away. None of this has been witnessed at a church, but still.



"Almost every Muslim I have personally met in Europe is too busy making a living to spoil it by going radical."

What is "radical" behavior in Europe? Suicide bombing a train station, undoubtedly. But what about widespread raping of native women, gang assaults, pimping, and other organized crime? Are those activities considered "radical", or just "vibrant"? I'm glad you know some "good ones", but still.

Anonymous Anthony Walsh November 14, 2013 10:52 PM  

Please excuse my spelling errors and watch this humorous video explaining the point.

The brass artillery represents the outdated method of warfare in which the white person pridefully lays out all the facts against the anti-white.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqMxBfbV4-k

A.W.

Anonymous Shibes Meadow November 14, 2013 10:52 PM  

It's so refreshing to read a truly honest discussion of race on the Internet. For those White readers who are finally ready to stop hating themselves and face the truth about race in America, I suggest The White Book, a pro-White manifesto written by a normal human being who has a family, goes to church, and works for a living, and doesn't belong to the Deep South Sheet Patrol or the Austrian Toothbrush Mustache Lovers' Club.

Remember: you can't love your neighbor as yourself unless you love yourself.

Anonymous Anthony Walsh November 14, 2013 10:54 PM  

Here's the working link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqMxBfbV4-k

Anonymous Jonathan November 14, 2013 10:54 PM  

Almost every Muslim I have personally met in Europe is too busy making a living

Turks in Germany, maybe, but have you seen the rates of public assistance for Muslims in the UK?

Anonymous Res Ipsa November 14, 2013 10:57 PM  

All Mexicans I know (and that's several) are working, but that doesn't mean they are paying in more than they are taking out.

Anonymous nick digger November 14, 2013 11:06 PM  

Anthony Walsh: "You aren't FORCE assimilating the 50+ black countries with millions upon millions of non-blacks trying to create a Blended humanity in EVERY black country."

To be fair, what non-black would ever want to move to a black country? A better way to point out the Mud Hypocrisy, is that whites who already built, lived and prospered in Rhodesia and South Africa, had their property and their lives forcibly taken. Blatant proof that the goal is not diversity and multiculturalism, but to fuck whitey.

Anonymous bob k. mando November 14, 2013 11:08 PM  

tz November 14, 2013 5:15 PM
they did have MexiCoke with cane sugar


that doesn't have anything to do with a Mexican population. real cane sugar cola tastes better than HFCS. glass bottles don't impart the nasty aftertaste that plastic and aluminum ( which has also been implicated in Parkinson's and Alzheimer's ) do.

most important, you can snag a case of 24 12oz bpttles for <$19 at Sam's Club. yeah, all those bottles that you're paying a dollar and half to two dolla for? you could get it for half price.




Res Ipsa November 14, 2013 10:13 PM
if your not white and even semi literate



dude ... duuuuuuuuuude.

*facepalm*

well, at least dumbass RealAmurrrican doesn't know how to spell "xenophobe". that's something, anyways.




dh November 14, 2013 10:17 PM
And being given loans for which you have no qualifications, how does this help a minority get ahead?



false equivalence.

having qualifications which are equivalent too or lesser than those of a white man is NOT the same thing as 'no qualifications'. and the white businessman has too bear the tax burden for these loans and policies.

this is especially bad in the building trades and trucking. i know of a trucking/construction company in Fla that was started by a black Bermudan immigrant. he got to benefit from all the affirmative action shit and he had never one day in his life suffered from American discrimination. his fleet was close to triple digits before the construction collapsed back in 08.

same holds true for Indians and convenience stores.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1kPgtofgow


same applies to any number of other ethnicities and small businesses.

it's a lot harder for a white boy to start one of these ( what used to be ) straightforward entry level business opportunities when he's being dragged down by the legal and tax equivalent of Harrison Bergeron.

Anonymous Res Ipsa November 14, 2013 11:16 PM  

bob k. mando ,

I went to the Nate school of spelling. I had a couple of other ones that spell check didn't catch.

Anonymous Anthony Walsh November 14, 2013 11:19 PM  

@nick digger

I know that and you know that, but it doesn't "pop" as much as exposing the double standard of White Genocide.

"Asia for the Asians, Africa for the Africans, white countries for everybody?"


Anonymous bob k. mando November 14, 2013 11:19 PM  

i know.

i just wince when somebody starts ranting about literacy, illiterately.

even done it once or twice myself. that's like a self-dopeslap.

Blogger Desiderius November 14, 2013 11:37 PM  

"Remember: you can't love your neighbor as yourself unless you love yourself."

Yep, yep.

Tribalism cannot be transcended until it is first achieved. Hating one's own tribe is less than tribalism, not more.

More than conquerors.

Anonymous Vidad November 14, 2013 11:54 PM  

nick digger: "To be fair, what non-black would ever want to move to a black country? A better way to point out the Mud Hypocrisy, is that whites who already built, lived and prospered in Rhodesia and South Africa, had their property and their lives forcibly taken. Blatant proof that the goal is not diversity and multiculturalism, but to fuck whitey."

There are some decent majority black countries in the Caribbean. Sure, we're not talking first world places... but they are significantly freer than the US. And folks smile at you and wave, even if you're a damn white devil. That counts for something.

Anonymous dh November 14, 2013 11:55 PM  

it's a lot harder for a white boy to start one of these ( what used to be ) straightforward entry level business opportunities when he's being dragged down by the legal and tax equivalent of Harrison Bergeron.

The legal and taxes are equal, but the competition is not.

Anonymous Jack Amok November 15, 2013 12:05 AM  

The legal and taxes are equal, but the competition is not.

But you know the tax and regulatory compliance among Mexican immigrants is far lower than for native whites, right?

if not, you should read some of VDH's columns on California's Central Valley.

Anonymous dh November 15, 2013 12:07 AM  

But you know the tax and regulatory compliance among Mexican immigrants is far lower than for native whites, right?

But for business owners/starters?

I know there is a big underground and grey market for stuff among them.

Anonymous fritz November 15, 2013 12:09 AM  

I guess I just don't at this particular moment care what a Spaniard thinks about America, and America's immigration issues. Not that I appreciate his concerns. I must confess that via my participation in many forums around the cybersphere, I am amazed at the participation of foreigners in America's concerns, as though they were their concerns. That is quite an phenomenon in and of itself. Why is that? It is as though, according to foreigners (especially those of western thought) that what happens to America (USA), will eventually transcend to the rest of the known free world, on planet Earth.(less the world reserve currency discussions)

If we do wish to focus on a foreigner, and what he thinks about America, I have a suggestion. To begin with, this person is an Austrian. An actual resident of Geneva. Has been for some time. Born and raised in America though, in 1940. Read his biography to get the full details, including his birth and baptism certificates.

With all do respect to the Spaniard, he simply does not have access to information to make valued judgements as he is attempting (astute as he may be) concerning national security concerns of these United States of America. And who here will contest that the immigration issue is not a national security concern/threat?

Rather than wrangle about immigration, (whose fault, etc, etc, etc) let's focus on a solution. Col. Douglas MacGregor, hero of Gulf War I (if that is a "just" war), has a solution similar to issues of the Mid-East. The ME is a bottomless pit (his words). Just get out, militarily, and limited trade for now, until things calm down in a decade or so. His solution for illegal immigration is similar in tenor. Mike Harris of Veterans Today concurs. Give illegals (and we know who they are) one calendar year to learn and prove their English skills. After one year, they prove so, they get a green card. And then they have to renew it like everyone else, less they apply for citizenship, and wait the apportioned time for that. Otherwise, you are deported. The laws are already on the books. Just apply them. (less drug cartel/human trafficking discussions)

In all problems, "follow the money." I say cure the national debt (since both are national security concerns/threats) and the immigration issues may just begin to go -- poof! Who says so? Well, maybe it is that same Austrian (who appears to be somewhat sympathetic to the economic school) who has the literal BALLS to announce to the world that GHWB, that is POTUS #41 is not a "natural born citizen." It is tied to his father. We are concerned about being "birthers" about Barry Soetoro? I think "birther" is becoming an obsolete term. What are folks going to call us that have concerns about the birth certificate of GHWB?

Call 4 Investigation, Nov 5, 2013

Anonymous Res Ipsa November 15, 2013 12:21 AM  

"What are folks going to call us that have concerns about the birth certificate of GHWB?"

He has two parents that are citizens. Nothing else maters. That makes him a natural born citizen. Incidentally his parents are both still alive and can testify to that fact.

Blogger Unknown November 15, 2013 12:25 AM  

Vox,

The land of my Mother and Father (Poland) have invaded London and it is well documented that Christian, White, Males are also not welcomed in Western Europe. You are on too high of a horse on immigration.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2504398/A-spectacular-mistake-immigration-Straw-finally-admits-Labour-messed-letting-million-East-Europeans.html#ixzz2kUSIV2vg

Anonymous A. Nonymous November 15, 2013 12:36 AM  

This Spanish gentleman is correct about some things and dead wrong about others, while preserving the European smug "you Americans, have not been doing it as long as we have" routine.

Isn't that rather like the pot calling the kettle black, so far as culturally-based smugness goes? It seems so to my Canadian eyes, at least.

Euros have their own suite of character flaws, I'm sure, but the American self-image (at least as some have articulated it), with its "city on the hill" imagery, overtones of secularist mysticism in being either all things to all people, or the best and greatest of all possible human societies,* and tendency to hold more "traditional" nations in some form of contempt, can likewise be rather off-putting to observe from an outsider's point of view.

Now, mind you, I'm not arguing against national/cultural pride per se, and in fact, I rather suspect that a certain degree of contempt for other nations is a necessary part of loving one's own, but again, the point I'm trying to make is that you might very well seem as smug to the other chap as he does to you.

Anyway, to conclude, if it seems I myself am unfairly biased towards Europe/against America, I apologise, but please remember that we have to deal with you much more directly and frequently than them.

*Don't ask me for specific examples. I'm just working off of my collected impressions from literature and the web over the last decade or so.

Anonymous Anthony Walsh November 15, 2013 12:36 AM  

C. Milosz,

Where did you learn to be anti-white? Did you come from an anti-white family or did your favorite mommy professor brainwash you so you kept repeating her class, AGAIN and AGAIN?

L.O.L.!

A.W.

Anonymous Anthony Walsh November 15, 2013 12:39 AM  

C. Milosz,

If you are anti-white, you at least admit that there are white people, when you use the word "white" in your response.

Did you know that there are some anti-whites that want us wiped out so very much, that they will deny we exist? ("whiteness is a social construct", "there is only the human race", "how do you define 'white'?")

A.W.

Anonymous A. Nonymous November 15, 2013 12:46 AM  

I am amazed at the participation of foreigners in America's concerns, as though they were their concerns. That is quite an phenomenon in and of itself. Why is that? It is as though, according to foreigners (especially those of western thought) that what happens to America (USA), will eventually transcend to the rest of the known free world, on planet Earth.

Much as I dislike Pierre Trudeau for any number of reasons, he did have a rather good line about "American concerns":

"Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt."

Anonymous nick digger November 15, 2013 12:48 AM  

Res, I'm pretty sure GHWB's parents have long since past. Fritz is referring to the "Prescott Bush was a Nazi who stole an American's identity in the 1930s" theory .

I'm not sure why a guy has to research a story like that, or has to be an Austrian, before we can take his advice for dealing with the debt or wetbacks or Iraq. It seems we should decide the merits of his policy proposals, with no regard to his opinion on the Warren Commission or UFO's.

BTW, I love it that people can scratch out half a living researching stuff like that.

Anonymous Roundtine November 15, 2013 1:04 AM  

Along the last lines of the emailer, here is some evidence of French immigrants and the far right coming together.

Is a new revolution quietly brewing in France?

Anonymous Jack Amok November 15, 2013 1:05 AM  

But for business owners/starters?

I know there is a big underground and grey market for stuff among them.


Yeah, exactly. They work under the table, pay under the table, sell under the table, ignore regulations, bribe officials when they can, move on to the next town when they can't. The community they invest in is the one back in Mexico they send their money to, not the one where they live for the time being. Even if they had common values with the rest of us, they don't think of themselves as members of our communities. They don't respect our laws and don't invest in our institutions. They're just moving through and if La Raza gets it's way and the place becomes theirs, everything will be different anyway so no point them making a commitment to what we have now. Either they'll be moving on or taking over...

Anonymous A Visitor November 15, 2013 1:12 AM  

In regards to our Spaniard reader, I would like to say I spent six months studying in Madrid my junior year of undergrad and absolutely loved it! ¡Me echo de menos a España, mucho! Having said that, one of my professors I still keep in contact with was very like minded vis-a-vis me politically. We used to muse how great it would be to have Matamoros as a last name. Arguably one of the prettiest girls I ever met was a Spaniard. In reference to the centuries of fighting Islam, she told me one day she went to La Graz Mezquita in Córdoba. To understand the full context of this story, you have to understand how short she is (maybe 5' 5", if that). She's in there admiring the mosque's interior and she said an Arab came up and asked what she was doing. She repiled, "Admiring the mosque." "Are you a Muslim?" "No." "Get out, this is our mosque!" She looks at him, all 5' 5" of fury and says, "800 years ago this was your mosque! NOW IT'S OURS! IF YOU WANT IT BACK, YOU'LL HAVE TO TAKE IT!" Need I say more? ¡Viva España!

Regarding our current debacle Stateside, one of the reasons we have the mess we do is that my generation (Milenials, is that right (born 1980's to 2000's?)?) is so indoctrinated in Marxist thought. Couple that with most people not caring or caring more about what is on TV or what sporting event they're going to, or worse yet, saying, "Oh well," and shrugging their shoulders and it's easy to see why we're in the mess we are.

Though the Marxists had their day, I sense the tide is slowly turning. I am reminded of a quote attributed to Samuel Adams (I honestly have not researched it enough to indeed know if he said it): "It does not take a majority to prevail...but rather an irate, tireless minority keen on...setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men."

Who's up for some fire lighting?

Anonymous A Visitor November 15, 2013 1:16 AM  

But you now go to any non-Alabama town of any size in the south and you've got a significant core of Mexicans. They're even in 'Bama I'm afraid. My grandparents used to live about thirty miles north of the Gulf on the Fish River. I visited them in '09. There were Mexicans; I was disgusted. It's not like Indy is doing any better. We got a Mexican consulate in '06. It's disheartening to see the changes, for the worse. My grandpa grew up in Fort Wayne in the '20s and '30s. I read something at the turn of the century how one of the most frequently spoken languages in Fort Wayne was Arabic, fml. I told him that and he was not happy, to say the least.

Blogger Res Ipsa November 15, 2013 1:23 AM  

nick

my bad.

GB Sr. was in the navy in WWII and lived across the street from my great grandparents. My uncle has pictures of them together. I've met Barbra and like her. I doubt GB sr was anything other than an American.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus November 15, 2013 1:41 AM  

A. Nonymous: "Euros have their own suite of character flaws, I'm sure, but the American self-image (at least as some have articulated it), with its "city on the hill" imagery, overtones of secularist mysticism in being either all things to all people, or the best and greatest of all possible human societies,* and tendency to hold more "traditional" nations in some form of contempt, can likewise be rather off-putting to observe from an outsider's point of view."

I've had the same bristling reaction. But eventually I noticed that the reason some Americans acted like a man who's struck it rich and is suddenly above having relatives is that the most obnoxious "American exceptionalists" are "proposition nation" believers.

They really don't believe Americans need to acknowledge white people in other historically white nations as kin, because they see the post-racial blended race of multicultural America and the abstractness of the Proposition Nation as the real America.

American egotists like that feel above the white nations, which they see as mere relics of "Blut and Boden" racism*, destined to be swept aside by History as it vindicates the superiority of an ever more "diverse" America. (*Yeah, they love implying that other white countries are Nazi - including countries that were fighting the actual Nazis long before the Americans were.)

This kind of "post-racial" American is often fond of misquoting a line about how nations have no friends, only interests, by which they mean that mighty America needs friends no more than kin, since its own military power and eclectic, ephemeral "coalitions of the willing" suffice to answer every question.

Too proud to acknowledge blood relations, too proud for friends, too proud even to live, since they cherish their "proposition nation" uniqueness above the survival of the white race in their own country; who could like these ego-crazed creeps, practically crying out for Nemesis to do something about them?

Dominique Venner, who considered himself a white man of French nationality, was much more pleasant and realistic.

But so are Americans with the same willingness to acknowledge international blood ties, common values, common problems and our common interests. Those guys aren't the problem.

It's the super-nationalists of all countries that deserve to be mocked and marginalized. A white person who thinks that a black Somali with a passport of their own country is dearer to them than a white person with a different passport is a state-worshiper who has renounced loyalty to anything but his own state machine, and deserves to receive no loyalty other than that which modern "multicultural" states typically give to white guys picked at random when they are in conflict with non-whites.

Anonymous bob k. mando November 15, 2013 1:42 AM  

A Visitor November 15, 2013 1:16 AM
I read something at the turn of the century how one of the most frequently spoken languages in Fort Wayne was Arabic, fml. I told him that and he was not happy, to say the least.




hanh? i dunno bout that. i know where there is a muslim karate studio at Times Corners that has closed down. why, i have no idea. it's not burnt.

this article says 1500 burmese muslims but they're even way outnumbered by the 7000 burmese buddhists ... and that's not arabic anyways:
http://www.wane.com/news/local/history-making-mosque-built-in-fort-wayne

the only three 'islamic' centers that i can find are ... pretty much nothing.
http://www.islamicfinder.org/worldIslamic.php?more=more&startPoint=0&endPoint=50&country=usa&city=Fort%20Wayne&state=IN&lang=english
also, 1109 Chute St.

got more Koreans than we've got ragheads. not that i'm particularly happy about the raghead vibrancy, just sayin, in a city of a 1/4 million we got a lot bigger problems than <10k camel jockeys.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus November 15, 2013 2:10 AM  

Was Pierre Trudeau "amazed" that Jews all over the world were concerned with the interests of Jews leaving the Soviet Union?

It was natural, inevitable, moral and necessary. Concern for one's own kind is the beating heart of that impressively sturdy, resilient race.

If we want the white race also to continue to have a beating heart, we'd better learn to have the same concern for our own kind, regardless of national borders.

Anonymous A Visitor November 15, 2013 2:20 AM  

Bob K,
Sorry to hear that. My family has very deep ties to Fort Wayne/Allen County. It's painful to see.

Anonymous Peter Garstig November 15, 2013 4:03 AM  

Great response to one of your articles.

I would also like to add that there's one element that works at a disadvantage for Europe in general and Germany specifically: die Nazikeule. Everything that is far right will always be treated and compared to Nazi Germany. It's still able to trigger high emotions and silence outspoken proponents of the right. This is extremely visible in Germany, where in recent years a couple of righties just disappeared (Sarazin, Hohman, etc.) by using the Nazikeule.

It's for this reason that I think that Germany will be the last progressive fort in the whole of Europe (don't ever think that Merkel's CDU is a right party) and most probably will explode with the loudest blast...again. For those who don't know: Berlin is the 2nd biggest Turkish, city in the world. There's a reason for that, and it's not because German is easy to learn as a language.

Anonymous Samuel Scott November 15, 2013 6:55 AM  

Vox, just to quibble:

The Jews and the Irish so completely failed to get it that their elected representatives were responsible for the destruction of America.

The representatives and senators were not representative of the Jews, the Irish, or whatever as a whole. There were only representative of their districts and states (and all the people therein). This is how it works in a democratic republic.

Now, if Congress were elected by a proportional-representation system in which each viewpoint, community, or interest group had its own party (as in Israel*), it would be different. Say there were a "Jewish" party that gained enough votes nationwide to get twenty seats in Congress. Then, in that scenario, the representatives could be deemed as representatives of the Jewish community as a whole.

* For those who are interested, there are dozens and dozens of parties in Israel. Some are issues-focused such as the center-right (Likud) and center-left (Labor) while others represent the ultra-Orthodox Ashkenazim (UTJ), ultra-Orthodox Sepharadim (Shas), the Russian community (Yisrael Beiteinu, at least in the past), and so on.

Blogger Benzen November 15, 2013 8:17 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Benzen November 15, 2013 8:19 AM  

@ Peter Garstig

Right though you may be about the Keule, it seems to be a lot more scary to generations my senior than it is to mine. My younger brothers (15 & 16) are practically immune to it. Whenever the Keule is swung, I find that it loses much of its power when mocked in even the slightest of ways. My personal favorite is to just comment "Nazi Bazi", which can be preceded by a "Jaja" or a bored kind of sigh, for added effect. It rolls off the tongue easily, and creates a nice laconic counterpoint to the Keule, which is usually performed in an overly dramatic way.

For a time I used to go with "Unser tägliches Nazi gib uns heute". This certainly has its uses, but is not as broadly applicable as the first option, I have found. Might just be that it takes a bit longer to blurt out, and lacks the low-energy/investment quality of "Nazi Bazi".



Much admiration by the way to the Spanish commenter. While some American posters here indicate he seems to be wrong on some points, his understanding of the American outlook is fascinating, and I suspect, not easy to acquire.

Anonymous Alexander November 15, 2013 9:13 AM  

Scott,

Nope. Unless you want to argue that those representatives and senators only received campaign assistance and funding from their specific constituents.

There's more that goes into winning elected office than the votes.

Anonymous Alexander November 15, 2013 9:17 AM  

Benzen,

Other than some good points about our Islamic friends (peace be unto them) his outlook is very much wrong. It's wrong in ways that are different than most european's trying to figure out the American psyche, but it's wrong.

Anyway - it seems like you're a European congratulating another European on how well he's nailed down that elusive American when he's done absolutely nothing of the sort. And nothing could be more European than that!

Anonymous Karl Franz November 15, 2013 9:20 AM  

I would rather be invaded by mexicans than muslims, at least the mexicans dont regards the rest of the USA as unclean to the extent that they refuse to shower with them, swim in the pool with them present or eat their ungodly food.

Anonymous Alexander November 15, 2013 9:24 AM  

Yes... but that's the bigotry of low expectations, right there.

If you ever find yourself having to argue, "better X than Islam", you should jettison X as soon as there's not a danger of Islam filling the subsequent vacuum.

Anonymous E. PERLINE November 15, 2013 9:38 AM  

Differing origins, abilities, and customs make people interesting, but differing "religions" make them hateful and unreasonable.

Anonymous scoobius dubious November 15, 2013 9:39 AM  

Vox, just to quibble...
...The representatives and senators were not representative of the Jews... as a whole."

Hmm, better stick to quibbling about Israeli politics and reality. Your grasp of how America actually works is not, um, quite up to the task.

"This is how it works in a democratic republic."

I'll inform Edgar Rice Burroughs. Perhaps one day, in some distant fantasy future, we will actually live in a democratic republic, and then we will get to see how one of those puppies works.

"Now, if Congress were elected by a proportional-representation system in which each viewpoint, community, or interest group had its own party (as in Israel*), it would be different."

Oh man, you're a funny guy.

"Say there were a "Jewish" party..."

Why the counterfactual? Why the subjunctive? Why the "if"?

Blogger Benzen November 15, 2013 10:04 AM  

@ Alexander

Much like many Europeans, my knowledge of American history is patchy at best. The Spaniard appeared to be in a very informed position to contrast the colonization experience of our two continents. Some posters here seemed to bear this out, while you and others object to his points. In that case, I can at least recommend his remarks regarding the European perspective to you, as they are well observed.

Anonymous Samuel Scott November 15, 2013 10:13 AM  

scoobius dubious November 15, 2013 9:39 AM

Hmm, better stick to quibbling about Israeli politics and reality. Your grasp of how America actually works is not, um, quite up to the task.


I was born and raised in the United States until the age of 26, when I moved to Israel.

"Now, if Congress were elected by a proportional-representation system in which each viewpoint, community, or interest group had its own party (as in Israel*), it would be different."

Oh man, you're a funny guy.

How?

"Say there were a "Jewish" party..."

Why the counterfactual? Why the subjunctive? Why the "if"?

Because there is no "Jewish" party in the United States (or anywhere else outside of Israel that I know of) akin to how specific communities form specific political parties to look out only for their interests, as what occurs among various segments of the population in Israel.

Anonymous Samuel Scott November 15, 2013 10:16 AM  

Alexander November 15, 2013 9:13 AM

There's more that goes into winning elected office than the votes.


Of course, but I doubt that millions of dollars from Jewish organizations throughout the United States have ever flown to any House or Senate candidate (or multiple ones) simply because he was (or they were) Jewish.

Anonymous 11B November 15, 2013 12:18 PM  

Of course, but I doubt that millions of dollars from Jewish organizations throughout the United States have ever flown to any House or Senate candidate (or multiple ones) simply because he was (or they were) Jewish.

Maybe not simply because they were Jews, but those dollars have flown to House and Senate candidates who were deemed "good for the Jews".

Anonymous bob k. mando November 15, 2013 12:19 PM  

AGW news, new data smoothing techniques allow warmists to get rid of the last 10+ year stall in temp rise:
http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/11/recent-surface-warming-has-probably-been-underestimated/


you got that? the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age didn't exist but the NON-existent global warming of the last 10 years DOES exist.

because science ( means rejiggering the numbers until they give the answer you wanted to see in the first place )

Anonymous A. Nonymous November 15, 2013 2:01 PM  

Too proud to acknowledge blood relations, too proud for friends, too proud even to live, since they cherish their "proposition nation" uniqueness above the survival of the white race in their own country; who could like these ego-crazed creeps, practically crying out for Nemesis to do something about them?

Dominique Venner, who considered himself a white man of French nationality, was much more pleasant and realistic.

But so are Americans with the same willingness to acknowledge international blood ties, common values, common problems and our common interests. Those guys aren't the problem.


Agreed. What I've observed as a general rule up here is that Canadians tend to dislike Americans as a collective (probably embodied by your "propositional nationalists"), but be on good terms with individual Americans with whom they're acquainted.

Was Pierre Trudeau "amazed" that Jews all over the world were concerned with the interests of Jews leaving the Soviet Union?

Not sure if this was directed at me, but regardless, I can't really say for certain, at least not off the top of my head. One might think, given his "citizen of the world" self-image, that he might be, but then again, being from Quebec and all that that entails, he could hardly have been unacquainted with partisan ethno-nationalist sentiment.

Anonymous Samuel Scott November 15, 2013 2:22 PM  

11B November 15, 2013 12:18 PM

Maybe not simply because they were Jews, but those dollars have flown to House and Senate candidates who were deemed "good for the Jews".


And your point? Everyone has a lobby. Every ethnic group, industry, political viewpoint, country, religion, demographic group, and more. Look up the influence of the Saudi lobby sometime.

And yet "the Jews" get disproportionate discussion here and elsewhere.

Anonymous Alexander November 15, 2013 3:29 PM  

So...

First the Jewish lobby doesn't exist, then it doesn't exist under a very specific definition of a lobby, and now it exists but so what - so do other lobbies.

Keep it up, Scott. I want to see where you go next.

Or maybe "the Jews" get as much proportional discussion on this forum as they get in the Supreme Court, Congress, the Federal Reserve, the banking system in general, and the news media. If that's "disproportionate", I don't think we're the ones to blame.

Anonymous 11B November 15, 2013 3:51 PM  

And your point? Everyone has a lobby. Every ethnic group, industry, political viewpoint, country, religion, demographic group, and more....

Except white, gentile Americans.

Anonymous Samuel Scott November 15, 2013 6:39 PM  

Alexander November 15, 2013 3:29 PM

First the Jewish lobby doesn't exist, then it doesn't exist under a very specific definition of a lobby, and now it exists but so what - so do other lobbies.


You're moving the goal posts and not being precise. See above. I wrote that Jewish organizations and lobbies in the United States do not support and fund candidates simply because they are Jewish. They fund candidates -- Jewish or not -- that are aligned with them on issues.

Or maybe "the Jews" get as much proportional discussion on this forum as they get in the Supreme Court, Congress, the Federal Reserve, the banking system in general, and the news media. If that's "disproportionate", I don't think we're the ones to blame.

You want to know the reason that American Jews are overrepresented in these sectors? It's because historically American have placed a moral imperative on higher education and public service more on an average than non-Jews.

11B November 15, 2013 3:51 PM

And your point? Everyone has a lobby. Every ethnic group, industry, political viewpoint, country, religion, demographic group, and more....

Except white, gentile Americans.


You're missing the overall point. In any country in which the majority of people are white and Gentile, their representatives look out for them by default. So, other minority communities need to form interest groups so that their needs are addressed as well. Otherwise, you get the "tyranny of the majority."

Anonymous B Lewis November 15, 2013 7:37 PM  

@Benzen: "Unser tägliches Nazi gib uns heute"

Ich lachen lauthals.

Anonymous Alexander November 15, 2013 7:38 PM  

No sir, you are changing the goal posts.

You claimed there was no Jewish lobby, and based this on the fact that each individual representative or Senator represented a small, discrete district. I pointed out that there could, in fact, be one because money and influence comes from well outside that zone You then redefined the lobby as 'based on 'being a Jew', at which point it was pointed out that while being a Jew might not be the criteria, there was certainly money and influence being bought and sold on the basis of 'is it good for the Jews'.

At which point you went 180 direction and said that lobbies exist everywhere for everyone, so it's irrelevant.

When *that* was proven false, you said that the majority has representation... so they don't need representation.

Right.

As for 'historically more educated' - bullshit. Jews have a high mean IQ and have made many and significant works in the sciences - I'm not contesting that. But Anglo gentiles have done so to. That 'tradition' being Oxbridge in the Old World, the Ivies in the New. That tradition being creating a society as rich in all ways as it did - from Locke to Jefferson and Shakespeare to Beethoven.

So bollocks to the idea that the Jews are just that much naturally smarter than everyone else in that sense. The way that they are significantly smarter - and this is important - is that since the times of the Old Testament, there has been a sense of tribal bonds that remain unbroken even after it took out every other group around them - nobody today is a Hittite or a Canaanite or a Roman. And this is what today takes an admittedly intelligent population and gives them the push over the top - that 'fall into line, support your brethren' mentality that the gentiles lack. And the idea that Jews are more 'public service' minded? Towards everyone - towards the goyim. What utter bullshit. One notes that one area of government the Jewish population is decided NOT over-represented the enlisted soldiers - despite the fact that our entire policy in the Middle East is centered around keeping Israel in existence.

Anonymous 11B November 15, 2013 8:40 PM  

You're missing the overall point. In any country in which the majority of people are white and Gentile, their representatives look out for them by default. So, other minority communities need to form interest groups so that their needs are addressed as well. Otherwise, you get the "tyranny of the majority."

Sam, if only that were true in contemporary European nations. But it appears in the USA, Canada, Australia and most of Europe, this is not the case. The representatives in general do not look out for the welfare of the dominant group, and in fact go out of their way to outdo one another in seeing who is most concerned for the non-dominant groups. The tyranny of the majority, especially in the USA, is a figment of a progressive's imagination as can be attested to by the steady, uninterrupted march of third worlders that has been going on nonstop for thirty plus years.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus November 15, 2013 10:46 PM  

Re: Was Pierre Trudeau "amazed" that Jews all over the world were concerned with the interests of Jews leaving the Soviet Union?

A. Nonymous: "Not sure if this was directed at me, but regardless, I can't really say for certain, at least not off the top of my head. One might think, given his "citizen of the world" self-image, that he might be, but then again, being from Quebec and all that that entails, he could hardly have been unacquainted with partisan ethno-nationalist sentiment."

I try to avoid phrasing things so specifically that if you are not person X, don't answer.

Anyway, you got my point and added another. Even if Pierre Trudeau couldn't see the white common interest he should have been able to see the Anglophone, British-descended common interest that exists for many people.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus November 15, 2013 11:04 PM  

A. Nonymous: "What I've observed as a general rule up here is that Canadians tend to dislike Americans as a collective (probably embodied by your "propositional nationalists"), but be on good terms with individual Americans with whom they're acquainted."

That's a start.

The less that "proposition nationalists" are able to dominate the image of white countries, the better.

Compared to obnoxiously arrogant Americans, you can get equally obnoxious implications by the Australian government, on the theme that we are different and better than other (implicitly white) nations, because the special thing about Aussies is: we transcend race, we are truly multicultural unlike other parts of the world where racism and the legacy of slavery prevail (hear that, Americans?), we are a young nation (unlike Great Britain) with an increasingly vibrant youth... and so on.

The more people like that get to define us, the less friendly we will be to each other, and the more suicidal our policies will be.

(Fortunately, not too many people really care what implications the Australian government chooses to toss around on any topic.)

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