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Wednesday, November 06, 2013

Objective: solidarity

A commenter at Truth Before Dishonor explains what he believes the motivations of the Leftist trolls to be:
There are a couple of substantive things to bear in mind when dealing with the manner in which modern liberals or progressives interact with political opponents.

First of all, as we all realize, their view of “truth” is radically different from the traditional western viewpoint of what constitutes a true statement and what metaphysical meaning the term truth has. This incontestable relativism of theirs has several implications: one of which is that for the progressive, rhetoric becomes the means by which truth is shaped and brought into existence, rather than truth being a propositional description of the world or some portion of it, as it really is, and which is then rhetorically presented.

This relativism then, tends to devalue logical analysis and careful exposition as tools of debate in favor of other kinds of verbal acts intended to influence social relations. Chief among these replacements for truth are the tools of ridicule and disruption. Talk, is conceived of as warfare – not figurative, but literal – by means other than overt physical violence. As such, all of the techniques and deceptions employed in all-out war are considered by leftists and progressives as properly pertaining to political argument.

For the political progressive, silencing you through disruptive or annoying tactics, or discomfiting you emotionally, is just as good if not better than winning an argument on facts: since facts are always conceived as mere data points forensically ready to be deployed in the service of the world as they will dream it.

The goal of the socialist or progressive is after all, not to arrive at the point of truth – which they think is impossible in life and meaningless in an ultimate sense – but, at solidarity, which they think is attainable with the proper methods of social pruning and affect management.

I dropped off of Dana’s site because I was being dragged into interminable squabbles with persons whose hash I had already settled logically or historically time and time again. It was like playing whack-a-mole long after that game has lost its novelty. Their notion of victory, lies in congratulating themselves on summoning the energy to pop up again as a fresh annoyance no matter how humiliating of discrediting their performance would have been for a person of normal sensibilities.
Sound familiar? It should. Because some of the trolls are even the same people. Consider: "New Zealand Socialist book putter backer.... Phoenician in a Time of Romans, banned by multiple Conservative sites and disdained by multiple other sites, is definitely disdain-worthy...."

That's from 2011, months before Phony made his first appearance here. And here I thought he was just a particularly freakish PZ/Scalzi fan, but apparently he is something even more political and obsessive. Although wouldn't it be hilarious if Phony turned out to be Athol exhibiting his dark side? 

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233 Comments:

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Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 1:13 PM  

We should unleash Wheeler on them.

Now THAT would be escalating.

Anonymous VD November 06, 2013 1:15 PM  

Now THAT would be escalating.

There are still limits, Josh. There are still limits.

Anonymous inhumanist November 06, 2013 1:16 PM  

I just want to see more videos of women trying to fight men and getting beat down.

Anonymous Ain November 06, 2013 1:24 PM  

That explains why they have no shame where normal people would be mortified: they think they're winning.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 November 06, 2013 1:24 PM  

We should unleash Wheeler on them

Bringing a tactical nuclear weapon to a knife fight?
Sure, you wipe them out, and that's fine, but you still have to live in the fallout...

Anonymous flyfreshandyoung November 06, 2013 1:29 PM  

It takes a long time for the many of the logic/dialectic orientation to realize, and some never do, that no matter how retarded the trolls are you will never change their minds. They don't want to learn, use basic logic, or debate in good faith.

Ridicule and/or ban is the only proper way of dealing with them

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 1:37 PM  

People! Talk of unleashing Wheeler is totally irresponsible. There are things that you just don't put on the table.

Anonymous Jack Amok November 06, 2013 1:39 PM  

I just want to see more videos of women trying to fight men and getting beat down.

I'm sure there are websites for that, but they may charge $12.99 a month.

For the political progressive, silencing you through disruptive or annoying tactics, or discomfiting you emotionally

Absolutely - this is their objective. They want to prevent conservatives from thinking of themselves as normal or socially acceptable. They want to - as civilServant is trying in the Rules of Engagement thread one back - convince conservatives that the only possible society is one dominated by liberal groupthink and that any deviation from that means the loss of all your friends, your reputation, your job, or status. That to stray from the official party line is to be excommunicated.

For one thing, they are rabbits and that fate is the worst possible thing they can imagine. But for another, even folks on the right are not utter lone wolves - we do still need and value relationships, and not everyone has (or will, voluntarily anyway) severed all the bonds of friendship, family and society that cross political boundaries. So the threat that is unpleasant.

Finally, progs are not really champions of society anyway - they are champions of top-heavy coercive society and they are bitter enemies of it's alternative - civil society. All those voluntary associations people have with one another. Notice how frequently voluntary associations come under attack by progs. Civil society gets by on people being civil to one another rather than settling into their slot in the command hierarchy and kissing up and kicking down. So prog trolls also win if they can disrupt that civility, make it impossible for people to form or maintain voluntary associations with one another. Their goal is to destroy the voluntary society so that the only alternative is their hierarchical society.

Anonymous Giraffe November 06, 2013 1:41 PM  

There was a Phoenician in a Time of Romans here a long time ago. This is not his first appearance here unless it is a different guy.

I am guessing 6-7 years ago. It stands out in my mind because somebody was mocking his nick by posting comments with nicks like "A grilled cheese in a time of club sandwiches".

One of the funnier things from way back.

Anonymous VD November 06, 2013 1:41 PM  

Oh, he stopped by from time to time. I remember that too. But he didn't start trolling here until early 2013.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan November 06, 2013 1:49 PM  

"I just want to see more videos of women trying to fight men and getting beat down."

Twas a bouncer of very large mass,
Who'd grown weary of drunks giving sass,
When one of the drunk sluts,
Took a kick at his nuts,
He knocked her fat ass through the glass.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 1:49 PM  

"A grilled cheese in a time of club sandwiches"

Damn... I remember that...

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 November 06, 2013 1:54 PM  

There was a Phoenician in a Time of Romans here a long time ago

I vaguely remember that.
It might have been around the time that VD made that guest post on @scalzi's blog before @scalzi's love affair with the Dress Barn became a matter of public record.
So there's a good chance Phony is every bit the @scalzi sycophant we've believed him to be.

Anonymous Giraffe November 06, 2013 1:54 PM  

For the political progressive, silencing you through disruptive or annoying tactics, or discomfiting you emotionally, is just as good if not better than winning an argument on facts: since facts are always conceived as mere data points forensically ready to be deployed in the service of the world as they will dream it.

That sums up why it is useless to try to troll at a lefty blog. They don't accept dialectic and rhetoric just gets you banned.

Anonymous Giraffe November 06, 2013 1:56 PM  

It might have been around the time that VD made that guest post on @scalzi's blog

I don't remember when VD did that. I am thinking this was back in the Haloscan days.

Good times.

Anonymous dh November 06, 2013 1:58 PM  

I know that this site attracts us leftist trolls, apparently like moths to light, but it's a not unique situation. Left-leaning sites attract right-leaning trolls all the time. I would not call it troll for troll, but it is a substantial flow.

Anonymous Gen. Kong November 06, 2013 2:01 PM  

That's a very insightful comment. It's basically Alinskyism in a nutshell. Tad/Golf Pro and other trolls like him are generally quite immune to all facts, history, logical argumentation, etc. because they do not believe in truth. Their only truth is the solidarity of power.

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni November 06, 2013 2:05 PM  

Some things never change. I was just reading "A Critical Examination of Socialism" by W. H. Mallock, from 1908. He is outraged when his arguments about the surplus theory of labor value are not disputed by high-end socialists like Sidney Webb and G. B. Shaw and Herbert Spencer. "You vicious slug," the socialists say (not in those words!) "how can you accuse us of still agreeing with old-fashioned Marxism like that? Why socialism has come a long way! This is a new century! We have new interpretations of the relations between capital and labor that put all that Marxian rubbish in the shade! But, hang on, I have a speech to give!" The country-club socialist then heads out to a workingmen's rally to shout about how workers produce everything and the capitalists steal the value of their labor. Mallock can't believe these seeming men of honor and reason can be so two-faced.

They just want to feel like they're winning, or, even better, that you're not winning. Whatever it takes. They have no morals, no shame, no conscience and no rationale for their existence other than the propagation of evil.

Other than that, they're fine.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 2:06 PM  

True dh

For example our own Larry has gotten banned from God knows how many liberal sites.

Anonymous allyn71 November 06, 2013 2:06 PM  

"I know that this site attracts us leftist trolls" - dh November 06, 2013 1:58 PM

Are you self identifying as a troll? I always thought of you more in the "House Leftist" than "Troll" vein.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 2:08 PM  

Vox, could you explain the title of the post?

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 2:09 PM  

Are you self identifying as a troll?

He could be a trans-troll and not a cis-troll.

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 2:10 PM  

Vox, could you explain the title of the post?

The objective of liberal trolling is to enforce solidarity.

Anonymous allyn71 November 06, 2013 2:11 PM  

"He could be a trans-troll and not a cis-troll." - Josh November 06, 2013 2:09 PM


I don't care who you are, that right there is funny!

Anonymous Daniel November 06, 2013 2:12 PM  

I know that this site
attracts us
leftist trolls
like moths to light

Left-leaning sites attract
right-leaning trolls
I would not call it troll for troll,
it is a substantial flow.

-- From First Mensas: A Chant, by the poet laureate, dh

Anonymous Krul November 06, 2013 2:13 PM  

Jonathan - Vox, could you explain the title of the post?

Their Objective is Solidarity rather than truth.

Anonymous Will Best November 06, 2013 2:17 PM  

It takes a long time for the many of the logic/dialectic orientation to realize, and some never do

Its hard to break the habit. Your first response to stupidity is often to shred it, but then you have to check yourself and realize they either don't care or beyond redemption.

Really though its about isolating a leftist from the hive. Posting on FB is a waste of time, but engaging in discussion in a small group setting can bear fruit.

That sums up why it is useless to try to troll at a lefty blog. They don't accept dialectic and rhetoric just gets you banned.

Its fun to see how many down votes you can rack up for unassailable facts though.

Blogger Eric Wilson November 06, 2013 2:24 PM  

I don't care who you are, that right there is funny!

Yeah I keep thinking the trans/cis thing will get old but it never does.

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 2:26 PM  

OT: Richie Incognito is the NFL's first <a href="http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/11/richie-incognito-considered-black-in-dolphins-locker-room.html>transracial</a> player.

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 2:27 PM  

OT: Richie Incognito is the NFL's first transracial player.

Anonymous Noah B. November 06, 2013 2:31 PM  

The spectacle of an NFL player running to the media because he feels bullied is kind of hilarious.

Anonymous allyn71 November 06, 2013 2:35 PM  

From the comments section that Vox originally linked to:

"They also reject logic and critical thinking while depending on wholly emotional pleas and outrageous rhetoric fallacies to sway the people. Today’s Liberals, as a whole, absolutely need a dumbed-down and unthinking populace to advance their agenda." - John Hitchcock 2011/10/20


Change "dumbed-down and unthinking" to "feminized". It is more precise with the correction.

Women Ruin Everything, indeed.

Blogger mina smith November 06, 2013 2:35 PM  

"... Liberals are processing incoming stimuli during debates through a completely different neurological filter compared to Conservatives, and their goals within debate are different as well. As a result, Conservatives will argue within the bounds of honesty and honor, to find logical truth, while Liberals will argue in a less rule governed fashion, simply to acquire followers, and create consensus around their views – in essence validating them through public acceptance. This difference in purposes during debate can be exploited, if you understand it.

There is some limited evidence that individuals process incoming information differently ... this would explain our inability to reach consensus in debate, even when facts are clear, and conclusions inevitable.

If true, Conservatives will instinctively fail to meet the Liberal on the correct elocutionary battlefield, for it will not be enough to simply be correct. One must also focus upon preventing the Liberal from feeling as if they are amassing consensus around their false premise."

Anonymous Conservative - Liberal debate tactics

Anonymous The Standard Deviant November 06, 2013 2:35 PM  

You dipshits ought to be ashamed. Yer close minded.
In additonally, J. Rapey McRaperson III is a great man. McRapey forever!
Sincerely,
The Standard Deviant

Blogger Chris Ritchie November 06, 2013 2:39 PM  

I will admit to going to Slate and Huff Post sometimes just to see how many accounts I can get banned in a day.

The people are right here. Those sites and others like them aren't interested in reason or civil debate. And their minds aren't going to be changed. You can't argue people into submission. You can't logic them into it either.

My best use of this site is to practice for the face to face situations where real change at least has a chance of success.

My best use of Slate? Seeing how ridiculous the enemy arguments are and how much fun it is to spin them up like they like to do over here.

Blogger Crowhill November 06, 2013 2:41 PM  

It will be interesting when comment spam blockers get sophisticated enough to recognize a person by their vocabulary, usage, and so on, so that if you block phony-name-1, when the troll reappears as phony-name-2, the software can give you a heads up.

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 2:48 PM  

Additionally, it's delivered with such a broad brush that it can't possibly be true.

Now that's a baseless assertion.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 2:50 PM  

"This is a baseless assertion. Additionally, it's delivered with such a broad brush that it can't possibly be true."

Its not baseless. Its is based on a common observation made by many... over and over again... and written about over and over again.. on blog after blog.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 2:54 PM  

I still don't see the mechanism whereby this creates solidarity. My impression of leftist internet commenting is to either gloat or to create division on the right.

It seems pretty clear that leftists hold things like the genetic origin of homosexuality or human cognitive uniformity to be true. Just saying that leftists don't believe in truth seems a pretty unsatisfactory explanation for their behavior and positions.

Anyways, I highly recommend Stephen Hicks' Explaining Postmodernism for an examination of the issue by an academic philosopher.

Anonymous Noah B. November 06, 2013 2:54 PM  

"My best use of this site is to practice for the face to face situations where real change at least has a chance of success."

When you present leftists with facts and reason, their only recourse is to call you names. Occasionally they'll actually think about what you say, but that's rare. Otherwise they wouldn't be leftists.

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 2:56 PM  

The writer is arguing that ALL leftists disdain a certain approach to the "truth" and that ALL understand truth as relative.

Who said that?

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 2:57 PM  

"Well let's just say its a base of air. But it is a base."

Shutup, Warbler

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 2:58 PM  

This is a baseless assertion.

You will need to repeat this at least a thousand more times to shape and bring into existence this truth. Best make haste.

Additionally, it's delivered with such a broad brush that it can't possibly be true.

It can't, can't possibly! No, it cannot be! Say it ain't so, Ethel!

Quickly, speak the truth into being!

Anonymous jack November 06, 2013 2:58 PM  

This was excellent. It shall be saved to the appropriate backup media.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 3:00 PM  

When you present leftists with facts and reason, their only recourse is to call you names.

Or announce that you are ruining everything.

...Ah, damn, do pardon me. Wrong forum.

Blogger rcocean November 06, 2013 3:01 PM  

Exactly. The left sees debate as a means to enforce solidarity or as war by other means because its primary focus is advancing progressive ideas/policies in the real world. In their minds, they are advancing constantly and playing to win all of the time. They wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.

Meanwhile, the Right is full of people who just want to dress up powdered wigs and have a jolly good political discussion over a glass of Port.

Anonymous Noah B. November 06, 2013 3:02 PM  

"Second paragraph of VD's long quote."

You're right, Warbler. The word "ALL" is in that paragraph. Therefore you must be correct.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 3:02 PM  

Is this Warbler yet another name of the Greatest Snoreswoman in all Carnita? I have quite lost track.

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 3:03 PM  

Second paragraph of VD's long quote.

You're mistaken as to what's being said there.

Anonymous Porky? November 06, 2013 3:03 PM  

Am I a troll?

Anonymous Alexander November 06, 2013 3:08 PM  

For the slow bus.

"First of all", that all implies that there is a list of things to be discussed, and we are now discussing the first of them.

"As we all realize": The set of commenter at that site who are on the same ideological side *as that commenter* Nothing to do with liberals at all.

Warbler, lrn2english.

Anonymous jack November 06, 2013 3:09 PM  

We should unleash Wheeler on them

Nothing, I say Nothing, should be left off the table. This is the Hot Gate. Xerxes swarms are within spear range. Let Wheeler loose for God's sake! Give him two quarts of mead, a sharp sword and long spear, and, the promise of two virgins after the battle.

Let him loose!

Anonymous Krul November 06, 2013 3:10 PM  

rcocean - Meanwhile, the Right is full of people who just want to dress up powdered wigs and have a jolly good political discussion over a glass of Port.

Does the fact that this sounds *very* appealing say something about me?

Not Port, though. Brandy.

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 3:10 PM  

Is this Warbler yet another name of the Greatest Snoreswoman in all Carnita? I have quite lost track.

It is

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 3:13 PM  

Warbler, lrn2english.

Ah, but he is the Greatest Wordswoman in all Carawayseed! He already can English, and with greater skill than any here! His works prove this!

Anonymous VD November 06, 2013 3:13 PM  

Is this Warbler yet another name of the Greatest Snoreswoman in all Carnita? I have quite lost track.

Yes, Warbler is Ciconia is Arachnothera is Will is Clampps is Yamathespacefish is Dimwit Dan.

Anonymous Noah B. November 06, 2013 3:14 PM  

Oh, the irony. A leftist making things up about an article that discusses leftists' moral flexibility with the truth.

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 3:14 PM  

I'm not. The writer has defined all leftists as thinking in one way. That of course can't be true, and isn't demonstrated nonetheless.

No, he did not. Read it again more carefully.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 3:17 PM  

"Am I a troll?"

Absolutely.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 3:17 PM  

That of course can't be true, and isn't demonstrated nonetheless.

It cannot be true, and yet it has not been demonstrated.

His command of the English language is unmatched, I tell you.

Anonymous John Regan November 06, 2013 3:18 PM  

You have to confront calcified relativism in the legal profession all the time:

http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/2013/11/02/parsing-greenfield/

It's especially corrosive in the legal profession.

Anonymous Porky? November 06, 2013 3:24 PM  

Absolutely.

No, seriously.

Anonymous Krul November 06, 2013 3:26 PM  

Porky, this is you.

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 3:27 PM  

No, seriously.

Seriously

Anonymous Porky November 06, 2013 3:27 PM  

So I should get lost?

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 3:30 PM  

Ah, Porky, answer these questions:

Do you thrive upon arousing the ire of those whom you plague? Do you laugh in the face of those who cry mercy? Do you delight in the suffering of those you torment, and intend no betterment of your victims by their anguish? Is chaos your stock in trade, spreading discord and interfering with any useful conversation until it all dissolves in a great welter of emotional babble and name-calling?

If your answer to any of these is not an enthusiastic "yes", then no, you are not a troll. You may take it from the god of trolling.

Anonymous Krul November 06, 2013 3:32 PM  

At least stay long enough to confirm/reject your Obamacare prediction. That should be amusing either way.

Beyond that, it's up to you.

Anonymous VD November 06, 2013 3:33 PM  

Am I a troll?

No, although you do have some trollish inclinations. Regardless, you're not the sort of person I am addressing here. Nor is dh a troll. CivilServant isn't really one either, although he occasionally appears tempted to dabble in it.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 3:33 PM  

"So I should get lost?"

Vox's house. Vox's rules. It's not up to us.

Anonymous VD November 06, 2013 3:35 PM  

So I should get lost?

See, not a troll. A troll not only doesn't ask if he is still welcome to stay, he insists on coming back even after he's been forcibly ejected. They have regenerative powers.

Blogger JDC November 06, 2013 3:41 PM  

They also reject logic and critical thinking while depending on wholly emotional pleas and outrageous rhetoric fallacies to sway the people. Today’s Liberals, as a whole, absolutely need a dumbed-down and unthinking populace to advance their agenda.

My favorite liberal words / phrases - bully, raciss, sexiss, social justice, inequality, oppression, patriarch, hate, patriot (used pejoratively), green, pink, (aw hell - all the rainbow colors), tolerance, and a few more.

Although, for the sake of argument, one would be prudent in being able to argue any side of an argument, as the philosopher pointed out, "not that we may actually do both, for one should not persuade what is debased." The left doesn't care about debasement (given their moral relativity - I don't know if that word actually exists), the end that is valued (IMO) - is entirely in the harmony of the argument. Serenity Now!

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 3:42 PM  

"See, not a troll. "

He didn't say he'd leave if we asked. He just asked if we wanted him to leave. For all we know he'd have taken "get lost" as a compliment.

Anonymous Porky November 06, 2013 3:43 PM  

Beyond that, it's up to you.

Well it used to be. I gotta say the threat of my personal info being posted has a bit of a chilling effect. Especially with VD visibly pissed at me.

It's not really worth it to me. I work in an industry surrounded by progressives and flaming liberals and I have a family to support. Just tell me to get lost and I'll take it elsewhere. No hard feelings.

Anonymous Noah B. November 06, 2013 3:44 PM  

"A troll not only doesn't ask if he is still welcome to stay..."

However, I would suggest that asking this question for the sole purpose of proving that one is not a troll means that one is, in fact, a troll.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 3:44 PM  

"It's not really worth it to me. I work in an industry surrounded by progressives and flaming liberals and I have a family to support. Just tell me to get lost and I'll take it elsewhere. No hard feelings."

Ah... I see VD was correct.

Fair enough.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 3:46 PM  

A question for everyone:

Do liberals generally believe that all human beings are born with equal cognitive potential?

If, yes, doesn't that indicate that they have some notion of truth?

Anonymous Noah B. November 06, 2013 3:47 PM  

"It's not really worth it to me. I work in an industry surrounded by progressives and flaming liberals and I have a family to support. Just tell me to get lost and I'll take it elsewhere. No hard feelings."

You're not the troll he's looking for. You can go about your business.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 3:53 PM  

He didn't say he'd leave if we asked. He just asked if we wanted him to leave. For all we know he'd have taken "get lost" as a compliment.

Ah, reading a universe of potential meanings and intents into a man's words instead of taking them at face value. Women ruin everything.

Anonymous patrick kelly November 06, 2013 3:59 PM  

@VD: (to Porky)"you're not the sort of person I am addressing here. Nor is dh a troll. CivilServant isn't really one either, although he occasionally appears tempted to dabble in it."

Glad you cleared this up. Occasional trolling for entertainment or amusement itself shouldn't provoke banning or outing. Not that you have given any indication this might be the case, you appear very patient and tolerant considering the ebb and flow of The Magic Ilkdom......

Anonymous patrick kelly November 06, 2013 4:01 PM  

Porks gonna pork....can't blame em for that....

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 4:07 PM  

"Ah, reading a universe of potential meanings and intents into a man's words instead of taking them at face value."

Given the nature of porky's discourse here I find a reasonable amount of skepticism to be... ... reasonable.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 4:09 PM  

"Ah, reading a universe of potential meanings and intents into a man's words instead of taking them at face value."

no.

as dh has explained before. Liberals do not view things this way at all.

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 4:15 PM  

Do liberals generally believe that all human beings are born with equal cognitive potential?

That's what their party line is.

Although their behavior is completely different. Notice how liberals cluster in very non vibrant areas.

It's like women. Ignore what they say, focus on their behavior.

Anonymous Anonymous Conservative November 06, 2013 4:17 PM  

Thanks to Mina for linking my stuff here. I hate to beat the proverbial dead horse, but Liberals are arguing to assuage a cognitive anxiety, not to solve problems, or reach truth. It is very practical, and grasping this helps us immensely.

When that anxiety builds, it is like nothing we can imagine. In the “Debating Liberals” piece linked above, an MIT biologist hears a reality she doesn't like from Larry Summers, and she begins to feel faint, her heart races, and she has to throw up. Mike Wallace goes home and downs fistfulls of pain pills, because he needs "out" now. Chris Brown thinks about the negativity in his life, and next thing you know his posse has to call an ambulance because he is having a “non-epileptic seizure.” The Lib I first did this to listens as I calmly rehash things which upset him, and then laugh uproariously, and in five minutes, he is having all the symptoms of a stroke, and it is off to the ER.

What it is critical to understand is that what motivates Liberals to reject reality, makes reality a weapon, if you can flag it properly in their amygdala, and make them focus on it. The more Leftist they are, the more they ignore reality, the more they need to ignore reality, and the more reality is a potent weapon to hurt them, if you can wield it properly.

It is long past time we stopped caring what the Liberal thinks, or even cared about trying to reason with or debate them. For now, figure out how to make them faint, understand how to make them throw up, and grasp that the defect which blinds them to reality, leaves them open to really being hurt – with words, and without legal consequence.

There is a whole host of other political strategies which would flow from that, most of which would revolve around political strategies involving the credible presentation of some un-ignorable/undeniable threat stimuli, but for debate, just calmly focus them on a truth that turns on the amygdala, flag it so it is significant to their brain and cannot be denied (credentialism, backing into a logical corner, or make it seem the group will reject anyone who disagrees), avoid flagging any other aspect of yourself or your presentation by staying calm, and then let the panic they are running from catch up to them. They are rabbits. Facing a stressful stimuli, and calmly assessing it is not in their nature. Just make the bunnies run, and enjoy the show.

Blogger JartStar November 06, 2013 4:18 PM  

Liberals do not view things this way at all.

Exactly. The late term abortion defending Wendy Davis, who's running for TX governor, just told a whopper of a lie recently that she is "pro-life" because she cares about the lives of all children.*

*Except the ones in the womb, they can be butchered.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 4:20 PM  

Given the nature of porky's discourse here I find a reasonable amount of skepticism to be... ... reasonable.

That's all right, you cannot help it. It's simply your nature to assume the worst about people unlike yourself, particularly if they disagree with you.

Anonymous dh November 06, 2013 4:23 PM  

Its a good reminder for us on the border to watch the rules and not annoy the host and regulars.

Anonymous dh November 06, 2013 4:26 PM  

as dh has explained before. Liberals do not view things this way at all.

Agree, whatever definition of "value" you assign to persons, their capacity for anything is not equal at birth.

Anonymous Porky November 06, 2013 4:27 PM  

Its a good reminder for us on the border to watch the rules and not annoy the host and regulars.

Oh shut the hell up you leftist dickwad. The only border you should care about is the one around the FEMA camp you will be guarding.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 4:30 PM  

The leftist justification for living away from "vibrants" is that they have been oppressed and ruined by society, not that their innate potential was any different.

Sorry, most liberals very much think it's true that everyone is born with equal innate cognitive potential.

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 4:35 PM  

Oh shut the hell up you leftist dickwad. The only border you should care about is the one around the FEMA camp you will be guarding.

Porky's 2: Porky Unchained

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 4:37 PM  

The leftist justification for living away from "vibrants" is that they have been oppressed and ruined by society, not that their innate potential was any different.

Again, what they say and how they behave are different.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 4:38 PM  

"Ah, reading a universe of potential meanings and intents into a man's words instead of taking them at face value."

no.

as dh has explained before. Liberals do not view things this way at all.


I cannot wait to hear you explain how your response pertains to what you quoted. Truly, I am on tenterhooks.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 4:40 PM  

"I cannot wait to hear you explain how your response pertains to what you quoted. Truly, I am on tenterhooks."

Well... I mean honestly I would love to come up with some grand explanation about it was a stupendously clever reply and if you were just smart enough you'd understand...

But really I just completely failed the complex task of cut-and-paste.

I was responding to something totally different and quoted you instead.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 4:40 PM  

@ Josh

Again, what they say and how they behave are different.

*sigh*

Liberals attribute a different causal difference, than do you, to the nature of those differences. You hold that the source of those differences is innate and they hold that the source is deprivation. Both of you hold that your respective explanations are true.

Their behavior does not indicate what you think it does.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 4:46 PM  

But really I just completely failed the complex task of cut-and-paste.

I was responding to something totally different and quoted you instead.


Honestly, I would love to come up with some variant on "ruining everything" that you would understand were you just smart enough, but I cannot be bothered.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 November 06, 2013 4:46 PM  

People! Talk of unleashing Wheeler is totally irresponsible. There are things that you just don't put on the table.

I don't know, I think the willingness to use nukes was a good litmus test for going to war. And they have declared war on us after all...

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 4:47 PM  

Their behavior does not indicate what you think it does.

Or perhaps they are dishonest about why they do what they do.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 November 06, 2013 4:52 PM  

These observations prove that you cannot be a Leftist and a Christian. A Christian relies on an absolute truth and an absolute reality otherwise his or her faith is utterly meaningless.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 4:58 PM  

The point is that insisting that liberals don't believe in truth is not at all productive. Most people perceive that everyone holds a practical notion of truth. For example, everyone where I live thinks it is true that the speed limit on the freeway is 60. From that, they infer that other things are also held as true, despite some disagreement on what is true and what is not.

It's a fool's errand trying to convince anyone that liberals don't think that there is such a thing as truth. A relativist theory of truth is something like the following:

Truth is an available theory that best fits, explains and predicts the available facts

You may not find that idea of truth satisfactory but it is one way of looking at truth.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:00 PM  

What leftists do is place the theory of innate cognitive difference in the category of morally unacceptable, as an Absolute Truth that transcends evidence.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 5:10 PM  

'Sorry, most liberals very much think it's true that everyone is born with equal innate cognitive potential."

No. They don't. Liberals are quite well aware that there are smart people and dumb people.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:13 PM  

And they attribute those differences to either ideology or education. When a leftist calls me "dumb" all they're really saying is that either "you disagree with me" or that I am not educated enough.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 5:14 PM  

"What leftists do is place the theory of innate cognitive difference in the category of morally unacceptable, as an Absolute Truth that transcends evidence."

Provide examples of leftists doing this.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:17 PM  

Sometimes "dumb" is a moral condemnation, too.

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 5:17 PM  

Hell, our resident leftists dh said I'm this very thread that innate cognitive differences in people exist.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:19 PM  

The idea that everyone is capable of handling a university education is an example of leftist Absolute Truth.

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 5:20 PM  

Jonathan, why did liberals trumpet that IQ hoax in 2004 that showed George W Bush had the lowest IQ of any president if they don't think IQ matters?

Why do they go into howling screaming fits of rage over Vox's Mensa membership?

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:21 PM  

dh is not anything close to a typical leftist. Further, I doubt he would admit to that in other social contexts.

The point is that trying to convince people that liberals don't believe in truth is pointless; you're just not going to get anywhere with it.

Anonymous allyn71 November 06, 2013 5:22 PM  

"A relativist theory of truth is something like the following:

Truth is an available theory that best fits, explains and predicts the available facts" - Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:00 PM


I will stick with accepted definitions like:

1. the true or actual state of a matter
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
4. the state or character of being true.
5. actuality or actual existence.

Leftist be damned, regardless of if they agree or not.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 5:22 PM  

"The idea that everyone is capable of handling a university education is an example of leftist Absolute Truth."

You will note that the liberals pushing this also push lowered standards based on vibrancy.

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 5:22 PM  

The idea that everyone is capable of handling a university education is an example of leftist Absolute Truth.

No one is saying that. The most they're saying is that more people need college educations.

Unless you're willing to die on the hill that liberals want mentally retarded kids to go to college.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 5:24 PM  

"The point is that trying to convince people that liberals don't believe in truth is pointless; you're just not going to get anywhere with it."

no convincing is necessary. "Who's truth" is common phrase among liberals... just like "who's reality?"

Its like saying we will have a hard time convincing folks that liberals are pro-baby killing. We don't need to convince anyone... the liberals do it themselves.

Anonymous Krul November 06, 2013 5:27 PM  

Porky, I apologize for my flippant response to your serious question earlier. I thought you were joking.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 5:27 PM  

You will note that the liberals pushing this also push lowered standards based on vibrancy.

You will note that the liberals pushing this do so on the grounds that the "vibrants" are victims of a system designed to put them at a disadvantage compared to whites and Asians, and that they would "catch up" if given sufficient training up.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 5:30 PM  

Unless you're willing to die on the hill that liberals want mentally retarded kids to go to college.

Is it not commonly held here that blacks are, on average, retarded?

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:31 PM  

The point is that a relativist notion of truth is still a notion of truth.

Anonymous Josh November 06, 2013 5:31 PM  

Is it not commonly held here that blacks are, on average, retarded?

No

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:33 PM  

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29445201/#.UnrDCvlwp7s

An NBC story where the president of some organization called Education Trust advocates college for everyone.

Anonymous VD November 06, 2013 5:35 PM  

Is it not commonly held here that blacks are, on average, retarded?

How can they be retarded when their level of intellectual development is entirely normal for their population group? Do you deem Asian to be physically undeveloped simply because they are shorter and less muscular than Africans?

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:38 PM  

Also, the only context I've recall a liberal ask "whose truth?" is in relation to some sort of moral issue. Even then, it's not been often. It's pretty obvious that liberals take the position that expanding the institution of marriage to same sex couples is an absolute moral imperative. Warbler indicated this by insinuating that Southerners don't hold honest morals and ethics. She or he clearly thinks that the values held by a majority of Southerners aren't based in true morality.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 5:40 PM  

"An NBC story where the president of some organization called Education Trust advocates college for everyone."

The fact that one man may believe everyone 'should go to college' is totally unrelated to the claim that liberals believe all people have the same cognitive potential.

If you can't see the difference... well...

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:40 PM  

The best explanation for moral and epistemological relativism is that it is a tactic used by those not in positions of power. Now that liberals are firmly entrench in the institutions they are clearly pushing their own notions of Absolute Truth.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 5:42 PM  

Johnathan... to a liberal... truth is determined by consensus. Note how often they appeal to it.

Anonymous VD November 06, 2013 5:48 PM  

I gotta say the threat of my personal info being posted has a bit of a chilling effect. Especially with VD visibly pissed at me.

First, I'm not pissed at you. Merely moderately annoyed. And before I take any drastic measures, I would certainly give an individual one final chance to avoid the hammer dropping.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:49 PM  

While it is logically fallacious to infer the truth of a proposition from its popularity most liberals would probably respond that popularity is evidence that something is true.

If you asked a hundred people in my state "what is the speed limit on the freeway?" every single one would offer "sixty". It would be the most popular answer because it is true.

Anonymous patrick kelly November 06, 2013 5:52 PM  

"A Christian relies on an absolute truth and an absolute reality otherwise his or her faith is utterly meaningless."

If I'm not absolutely sure what is true or real at all times does that make me apostate? Does faith depend on absolute knowledge?


Blogger Desiderius November 06, 2013 5:53 PM  

On Bullshit by Frankfurt a must-read on this subject. A pretty quick one too.

Anonymous bob k. mando November 06, 2013 5:53 PM  

patrick kelly November 06, 2013 3:59 PM
Glad you cleared this up. Occasional trolling for entertainment or amusement itself shouldn't provoke banning or outing.



good God, i should hope not. Vox has trolled the Ilk himself.




Jonathan November 06, 2013 4:40 PM
You hold that the source of those differences is innate and they hold that the source is deprivation.


all you're doing is rephrasing the Nature v Nurture argument.

very, very few 'conservatives' argue innate and immutable differences. most who do are the hard core racists ... which up into the 70s the political racists were almost exclusively registered Democrats. it's also the Leftists advancing the 'immutable Nature' argument wrt to homosexuality. which is merely the typical Leftist tactic of taking whatever rhetorical device is to hand and using it for immediate advantage without consideration for whether this is coherent or even strategically harmful. ( there's that deceptive argumentation again )

so, we see that the leftists HAVE and DO assert innate and immutable differences when it suits their purposes. on to those of the right.

i've never met any serious conservative who isn't perfectly willing to admit that both Nature and Nurture have roles to play and that the population is a spectrum with some being far more affected by one than the other. would Michael Jordan have a claim on being possibly the best NBA player of all time had he ballooned up in weight to 350lbs ( a la, Shawn Kemp )? would any reasonable conservative argue that either Nature or Nurture had NOT played a significant role in his success? not bloody likely.

so i find your blanket assertion that "[conservatives] hold that the source of those differences is innate" is frankly ridiculous.

given that both of your stipulations are faulty, your conclusion can not be other than suspect, if not discarded out of hand.

Anonymous dh November 06, 2013 5:57 PM  

Jonathan--

I can't speak for everyone, but most people i know who are liberals/leftists agree with Larry Summers, about the gender (and racial divergences) and how they follow certain paths to get to the same mean.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 5:59 PM  

If faith depended on absolute knowledge then what would be the point of God promising to reveal his full righteousness on judgement day? The bible seems pretty clear that there are mysteries about the being of God beyond human comprehension in this world.

What may be known about God pretty clearly implies that there are things about God beyond human comprehension.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 6:04 PM  

@ bob mando

What is nurture? Where does it come from?

As for homosexuality being strictly genetic Greg Cochrane, a theoretical physicist turned geneticist, has calculated that there's simply no mathematical way that homosexuality can be genetic. Cochrane's hypothesis is that the most likely source for male homosexuality is a virus, although there might be some immune system variations that make some individuals more susceptible to the virus.

Anonymous Vidad November 06, 2013 6:15 PM  

"Cochrane's hypothesis is that the most likely source for male homosexuality is a virus, although there might be some immune system variations that make some individuals more susceptible to the virus."

Or perhaps environments that foster said virus, such as hair salons, flower shops and California.

Blogger Kabooga November 06, 2013 6:23 PM  

I think when truth is determined by consensus it leads to....the path to hell is paved by good intentions.
I remember reading about a bunch of Biblical scholars who got together to determine what Jesus really said (by their consensus). All the could agree on was he said "I am".

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 6:25 PM  

@ bob mando

Variations between ancestral populations are 100 percent genetic. Variations within those populations are due to probabilistic interactions between individuals within the population and just get called "nurture". However, when the "nurturist" side of that debate use the term what they really mean is "free will".

Anonymous Shutterbug November 06, 2013 6:41 PM  

So if to the liberal truth is determined by consensus, that means we need to gang up on them. Give them a wolf pack of truth. Roving in packs doesn't come naturally to those of us on the right, but I have noticed that when 3 of us got together by text message and simultaneously gave a resounding FU to the leftists who got snotty on fb it got their attention.

Anonymous VD November 06, 2013 6:43 PM  

So if to the liberal truth is determined by consensus, that means we need to gang up on them.

Precisely. They will change their tune, but you have to consistently maintain the pressure on them in order to trump their "educations" and the media drumbeat.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 6:46 PM  

"If you asked a hundred people in my state "what is the speed limit on the freeway?" every single one would offer "sixty". It would be the most popular answer because it is true."

except where it isn't.

Reality is what it is... and human perception of it is entirely irrelevant.

Anonymous Porky November 06, 2013 6:50 PM  

@Vox

Much appreciated. Can I still gloat like a pig when my prediction comes true?

@Krul

No worries at all.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 6:51 PM  

@ Nate

So, if you're arguing some truth-claim to someone then are you trying to change their perceptions? Or change reality itself?

Blogger JDC November 06, 2013 6:53 PM  

Why do they go into howling screaming fits of rage over Vox's Mensa membership?

Simple-
1. Racists are stupid, and have a low IQ
2. Vox is racist
3. Vox are stupid and have a low IQ

Therefore, Vox's accomplishments - mensa membership, a successful blog, a successful author, a successful journalist, a successful game designer, doesn't follow the logic flow - therefore something must be amiss. It must therefore be attacked and denigrated and dismissed. When doing so, it is always helpful to end each post with dipshit as well.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 6:56 PM  

"So, if you're arguing some truth-claim to someone then are you trying to change their perceptions? Or change reality itself?"

I'm trying to change their opinion. Reality doesn't give a damn about anyone's perception or their opinion. It is. Or it is not.

For example... Gravity existed long before we knew how to describe it... or even perceive it.

Light existed before we ever opened our eyes.

Our perception is not relevant to the Truth.

And your mental masturbation is growing ever more boring.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 7:01 PM  

Nate, it's not mental masturbation to point out that you have a false understanding of liberalism. The problem with "liberals don't believe in truth" is that it minimizes just how dangerous is their ideology.

Liberals very much hold notions of truth, they're just different from your notions of truth, mine too, for that matter.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 7:03 PM  

except where it isn't.

Something is true, except where it isn't. Hello, relativist

Anonymous map November 06, 2013 7:12 PM  

It is even simpler than this. Leftism is a game of status-seeking and social climbing among upper class people. What they are really saying is: "I'm so rich and I'm so smart and I'm so connected that I do not have to worry about liberal policies. That's for the little people to contend with."

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 7:23 PM  

"Something is true, except where it isn't. Hello, relativist."

No moron.. It was never true.

Blogger Nate November 06, 2013 7:28 PM  

'Nate, it's not mental masturbation to point out that you have a false understanding of liberalism. "

Its mental masturbation because you don't understand the claims being made and are yammering about irrelevant tangents.





Anonymous MendoScot November 06, 2013 7:31 PM  

Quoth Krul

rcocean - Meanwhile, the Right is full of people who just want to dress up powdered wigs and have a jolly good political discussion over a glass of Port.

Does the fact that this sounds *very* appealing say something about me?

Not Port, though. Brandy.


Whisky is for politics.

Brandy for discussing money.

Port, your mistress.

Bourbon for your wife's medical procedures.

And grappa - best not talk about it.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 7:41 PM  

Nate,

If you agree that truth is important
and
It is true that leftists have notions of truth
then
It is important to deal with that reality

Running around like a chicken with its head cut off blustering that "liberals don't believe in truth" just puts anti-leftist arguments in disrepute. Just because someone disagrees with you about the truth of something doesn't mean they don't believe in truth. Yeah, understanding this is important, not tangential.

Anonymous map November 06, 2013 7:43 PM  

Look, I am perfectly ok with Vox banning liberals outright from this blog, without any sort of explanation. Most of us already know what they think. We live in their society and see their ideas every day. We do not need to read them here.

Anonymous scoobius dubious November 06, 2013 7:44 PM  

"There was a 'Phoenician in a Time of Romans' here a long time ago"

It's funny, isn't it. No matter how many institutions the Phoenicians control, no matter how much power and influence they amass, no matter how many co-Phoenicians they acquire through immigration, no matter how much they dictate the agenda, they will never admit that they are in fact a Phoenician In A Time of Phoenicians.

No matter how glaring the evidence to the contrary, they will never abandon their childish self-image of a courageous desperate outnumbered rebel bravely speaking the truth to power, which is monolithically wielded by Evil Straight Male White Xtian Goyim.

They're just never going to put away their old Clash concert T-shirts, no matter what.

Anonymous zen0 November 06, 2013 7:48 PM  

Johnathan examines the liberal mind:

Liberals very much hold notions of truth, they're just different from your notions of truth, mine too, for that matter.

And that is as far as they get. Notions.

no·tion
noun \ˈnō-shən\

: an idea or opinion

: an idea about doing something : a sudden wish or desire

notions : small useful things (such as pins, thread, buttons) that are used for sewing

Monkeys do as much. They do not actually get to the sewing, but they are attracted by strange objects, much like crows.

Come to think of it, liberals don't sew, neither do they reap, unless it is your crop.

Anonymous Jonathan November 06, 2013 7:54 PM  

@ zeno

Just because someone holds different notions of truth than you doesn't mean they "don't believe in truth".

Anonymous Idle Spectator November 06, 2013 7:54 PM  

This is all just getting creepy now.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 8:25 PM  

This is all just getting creepy now.

Well, now that you are here.

Anonymous Warbler November 06, 2013 8:30 PM  

"So if to the liberal truth is determined by consensus"

There are no "liberal truths". There are only political truths. Plus, "truth" is rarely a factor in culture for the simple reason that the nature of truth is such that what passes as "truth" among conservatives and liberals is almost always unverifiable and a matter of opinion.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 8:43 PM  

"So if to the liberal truth is determined by consensus"

There are no "liberal truths".


Damn me, its reading comprehension grows worse.

Anonymous Idle Spectator November 06, 2013 8:45 PM  

Well, now that you are here.

Yeah. I know you were looking forward to a fresh horse to mount.

Anonymous Shutup, Dimwit. November 06, 2013 8:50 PM  

Warbler Dan says:

There are no "liberal truths". There are only political truths. Plus, "truth" is rarely a factor in culture for the simple reason that the nature of truth is such that what passes as "truth" among conservatives and liberals is almost always unverifiable and a matter of opinion.

Thus continueth the Vapid Vortex of Versimiltude.

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 8:53 PM  

There are no "liberal truths". There are only political truths. Plus, "truth" is rarely a factor in culture for the simple reason that the nature of truth is such that what passes as "truth" among conservatives and liberals is almost always unverifiable and a matter of opinion.

There is not enough Jack Daniels in the world to get me drunk enough to understand that sentence.

Anonymous zen0 November 06, 2013 8:55 PM  

JonatHan re-ups: Just because someone holds different notions of truth than you doesn't mean they "don't believe in truth".

Can't you fucking READ? I just explained what a notion was.

A "notion of truth" is no different than a FANTASY.

(Sorry for the caps, but you asked for it.)

Anonymous zen0 November 06, 2013 8:59 PM  

There is not enough Jack Daniels in the world to get me drunk enough to understand that sentence.

Try Makers Mark. You need heavier fuel to break the bounds of gravity.

Anonymous Warbler November 06, 2013 9:00 PM  

"There is not enough Jack Daniels in the world to get me drunk enough to understand that sentence."

It doesn't take alcohol. It just takes a bit of common sense and education. This is one of the reasons that conservatives continually get the butts whipped in elections and political debates. They enter them with an inherent deficit.

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 9:06 PM  

It doesn't take alcohol. It just takes a bit of common sense and education.

I have plenty of both. It still doesn't make a lick of sense.

This is one of the reasons that conservatives continually get the butts whipped in elections and political debates.

I'm not a conservative.

Anonymous Warbler November 06, 2013 9:13 PM  

"I have plenty of both. It still doesn't make a lick of sense."

I get it. You don't understand. That's understandable. But let me give you a hint. "Equal Pay for Equal Work is A good thing". "Same Sex Marriage is necessary for equality". "Socialized, Single-Payer Healthcare policy is the the best policy for America.". This is all true.

Anonymous LL November 06, 2013 9:16 PM  

Did anyone else read Porky's somewhat submissive comments to Vox about leaving/staying, read dh's mild comment, saw Porky's "shut up dickwad" response and think, "Well, that escalated quickly" or was it just me?

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 9:18 PM  

This is all true.

Sure. But why are you putting everything in quotes? Are you quoting someone?

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 9:18 PM  

Yeah. I know you were looking forward to a fresh horse to mount.

At least we are past that bit about it going the other way 'round--and you are willing to admit you are a horse's arse.

Anonymous Warbler November 06, 2013 9:20 PM  

"Sure. But why are you putting everything in quotes? Are you quoting someone?"

Example positions.

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 9:21 PM  

Example positions.

Yeah, but why put them in quote marks? It doesn't make any sense at all. If those are things you want to say, just say them. Unless you're quoting someone else.

Anonymous Krul November 06, 2013 9:21 PM  

Warbler - "Equal Pay for Equal Work is A good thing". "Same Sex Marriage is necessary for equality". "Socialized, Single-Payer Healthcare policy is the the best policy for America.". This is all true.

I wonder if Desiderius would categorize Warbler as a liberal, Marxist, or both.

Not the implicit endorsement of the labor theory of value with "equal pay for equal work". In reality a person's pay is a negotiated compromise between individual employer and individual employee based on each one's subjective evaluation of what the other brings to the table; the pay earned by every other employee of a certain sex or race is irrelevant.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 9:22 PM  

This is all true at this moment.

Anonymous Idle Spectator November 06, 2013 9:25 PM  

At least we are past that bit about it going the other way 'round

Well, you would remember best.


--and you are willing to admit you are a horse's arse.

Not quite. But I suppose that being that deprived of an equestrian turns even the finest commentator into your personal legged mirage.

Anonymous Toby Temple November 06, 2013 9:28 PM  

There are no "liberal truths". There are only political truths. Plus, "truth" is rarely a factor in culture for the simple reason that the nature of truth is such that what passes as "truth" among conservatives and liberals is almost always unverifiable and a matter of opinion.

Is the statement "You didn't built that" not a liberal truth?

Anonymous Warbler November 06, 2013 9:31 PM  

"Is the statement "You didn't built that" not a liberal truth?"

It's a candidate's political statement. What do you think it is meant to convey?

Anonymous Warbler November 06, 2013 9:32 PM  

"Yeah, but why put them in quote marks?"

Nevermind. My mistake. I assumed too much about you.

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 9:36 PM  

Nevermind. My mistake. I assumed too much about you.

It's just that you're not following the basic rules of grammar and punctuation so your posts are very hard to understand. Not a criticism, mind you, I'm just saying. I thought you wanted to get your point across so I asked for clarification.

Anonymous Toby Temple November 06, 2013 9:36 PM  

It's a candidate's political statement.

That is like saying Obamacare is just Obama's health care idea.

Anonymous Porky November 06, 2013 9:38 PM  

Did anyone else read Porky's somewhat submissive comments to Vox about leaving/staying, read dh's mild comment, saw Porky's "shut up dickwad" response and think, "Well, that escalated quickly" or was it just me?

Would "dickweed" have been better?

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 9:38 PM  

Well, you would remember best.

A man does not soon forget a slander against him, no--particularly not when weak-willed and gutless fellows are always too eager to remind him of it in a pathetic effort to gain apparent advantage.

Not quite. But I suppose that being that deprived of an equestrian turns even the finest commentator into your personal legged mirage.

First you try to seduce a married woman, and failing that, imagine her husband desires you? Ah, your desperation knows no bounds.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 9:41 PM  

It's just that you're not following the basic rules of grammar and punctuation so your posts are very hard to understand.

Harsh, you know not whom you engage in this duel. It is the Greatest Wordswoman in all Cantilever. His grasp of the English language is always better than yours.

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 9:44 PM  

Harsh, you know not whom you engage in this duel. It is the Greatest Wordswoman in all Cantilever. His grasp of the English language is always better than yours.

I once went ten rounds with Christopher Hitchens.

Anonymous Toby Temple November 06, 2013 9:48 PM  

A man does not soon forget a slander against him.

You say its slander. Norse mythology say its the truth.

Or are you just Loki of Marvel Universe?

Blogger Desiderius November 06, 2013 9:52 PM  

"I wonder if Desiderius would categorize Warbler as a liberal, Marxist, or both."

Oh, she's definitely a Prog as I noted before. Stridently illiberal, likely contemptuous of liberalism. Whether she's aware of her Marxism is likely beside the point.

The problem is that liberals are likely to perceive Warbler as being the lesser of two evils because the alternative likes to go around denouncing liberals all the time.

Anonymous zen0 November 06, 2013 9:56 PM  

I get it. You don't understand. That's understandable. But let me give you a hint. "Equal Pay for Equal Work is A good thing". "Same Sex Marriage is necessary for equality". "Socialized, Single-Payer Healthcare policy is the the best policy for America.". This is all true.

Everything you listed as true in this statement is a lie.

Not surprising. Your father was a liar from the beginning.

Blogger Desiderius November 06, 2013 9:58 PM  

Leftists recognize more things that trump truth than regular people do, and way more than an honorable man does.

It is a relatively lower priority for them. They rationalize from there.

Anonymous Warbler November 06, 2013 9:59 PM  

"It's just that you're not following the basic rules of grammar and punctuation so your posts are very hard to understand."

Move along.

Anonymous Toby Temple November 06, 2013 9:59 PM  

"Equal Pay for Equal Work is A good thing". "Same Sex Marriage is necessary for equality". "Socialized, Single-Payer Healthcare policy is the the best policy for America.". This is all true.

Bwahahahaha!!!

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 10:00 PM  

Move along.

All right, if that's the way you want to play it. I gave you a chance to explain so don't ever say you weren't given a fair shake on this forum. You just need to learn a little about brevity and clarity. Call it friendly advice.

Anonymous Warbler November 06, 2013 10:01 PM  

"Everything you listed as true in this statement is a lie."

How can you be sure? Is there some truth involved I'm not seeing. Take the statement "Same Sex Marriage is necessary for equality". What observation or set of observations can you possibly bring to the table to support your statement?

Anonymous Loki Out of Character November 06, 2013 10:03 PM  

Or are you just Loki of Marvel Universe?

((It's complicated. Alternate Universe based on the MCU.

((But regardless, do you think for one second Loki would own to having been "done" and given birth?))

Anonymous Warbler November 06, 2013 10:04 PM  

"All right, if that's the way you want to play it. I gave you a chance to explain so don't ever say you weren't given a fair shake on this forum"

Go away. You don't impress. You are pedantic in the extreme. Worse, you are boring.

Anonymous Toby Temple November 06, 2013 10:07 PM  

((But regardless, do you think for one second Loki would own to having been "done" and given birth?))

Of course not. But should I put any trust at all to the claims of one who holds the label god of mischief.

Anonymous zen0 November 06, 2013 10:09 PM  

How can you be sure?

How can YOU be sure?

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 10:10 PM  

But should I put any trust at all to the claims of one who holds the label god of mischief.

((Consider making that call for yourself part of the fun.))

Anonymous Harsh November 06, 2013 10:10 PM  

Go away. You don't impress. You are pedantic in the extreme. Worse, you are boring.

I'm not trying to impress you one bit. You're jumping to the wrong conclusion. And why are you getting so angry?

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn November 06, 2013 10:10 PM  

Go away. You don't impress. You are pedantic in the extreme. Worse, you are boring.

Quickly, Harsh, describe for him what you are wearing.

Anonymous Krul November 06, 2013 10:11 PM  

Loki - ((But regardless, do you think for one second Loki would own to having been "done" and given birth?))

I thought he would be proud. He took it like a champ.

Anonymous Toby Temple November 06, 2013 10:12 PM  

((Consider making that call for yourself part of the fun.))

Promise you're going to behave this time?

Anonymous Anti-Democracy Activist November 06, 2013 10:13 PM  

There's a simpler way to put that: The mission of the left is to win at any cost. And they are winning, in large part precisely because they are playing to win, and not playing to be sportsmanlike, or to put on a good show, or to do what's best for anyone but themselves.

The team that's in it to win it, probably will.

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