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Friday, December 06, 2013

Excellence in police marksmanship

Mike Williamson observes that the collateral damage produced by the sharpshooters in the NYPD make Graven Tower look downright solicitous by comparison:
As long as you ignore the fact that the shooting victims were innocent bystanders, hitting two people with three shots represents unusual excellence in marksmanship for the NYPD, matching another recent incident in which skilled NYPD officers were able to hit their target and nine bystanders with only 16 bullets. Overall the NYPD usually requires about 331 rounds to hit 54 targets, of which 14 will be innocent bystanders, 24 will be dogs, and 16 will be people the NYPD was actually aiming at. Statistically, if you aren't a dog, it is slightly more dangerous to be the person the NYPD was shooting at than a bystander (16 people out of 331 shots for intended targets for a 4.8% hit rate vs. 14 people out of 331 shots for bystanders, a 4.2% hit rate.) NYPD has a better success rate for other weapons, and certain factors, like shooting unarmed people in the back, tend to increase hit rates.

When NYPD officers fire 331 shots, and hit 16 targeted people, 24 dogs, but also 14 bystanders, there is a problem.
If the gun control advocates were truly serious about wanting to reduce the amount of unnecessary harm caused by firearms, they'd be campaigning to disarm the police, not the American people.

I suppose we can be grateful that the NYPD doesn't have rocket-armed aerovars or missile-armed drones at their disposal... uh, oh, wait a minute.

Labels: ,

63 Comments:

Anonymous Giraffe December 06, 2013 9:25 AM  

They're only shooting New Yorkers. New Jersey people want to be helpless so I think that's a great place to place the knock out game.

Anonymous Feh December 06, 2013 9:34 AM  

I see cops all the time at the NRA range, and they are awesome.

How many of them don't go there and practice regularly, who can say.

Anonymous LL December 06, 2013 9:36 AM  

MadMike didn't write that article.

And now you can be charged for scaring the cops so badly they shoot you but wing 2 innoncents?!

Ugh. I hate NY sometimes

Anonymous DT December 06, 2013 9:37 AM  

4.8%? Seriously?

How much alcohol would the average member of the Dread Ilk have to consume to have a hit rate that low?

Anonymous GG December 06, 2013 9:43 AM  

"If the gun control advocates were truly serious about wanting to reduce the amount of unnecessary harm caused by firearms, they'd be campaigning to disarm the police, not the American people."

That's a good point, VD. Also, in my area the biggest problem is that those who want to become cops did not grow up with firearms. We hand them authority, a gun, and only a few hours of training on how to use it. Only a decade ago, people were handling weapons routinely from a young age. Today people actually say they want to become cops because of all the toys they will get to use. Fine if we're going to train them, but usually we invest our money in diversity training or something else politically correct, rather then handling weapons. They do shoot innocent bystanders and dogs, but they also often shoot their own co-workers. Comical sometimes on the surface, but ultimately somewhat tragic.

Anonymous Salt December 06, 2013 9:46 AM  

At Lew Rockwell -

Under the assumption that he was armed, two officers opened fire when Broadnax reached into his pants pockets, instead hitting two women bystanders. The bullets struck a 54-year-old woman in the knee and grazed another 35-year-old woman.

If anyone thinks that's bad enough, it gets better.

Though he was initially facing misdemeanor charges of drug possession, resisting arrest and menacing, the district attorney’s office successfully argued in front of a grand jury to charge Broadnax with assault, with a maximum sentence of 25 years.

According to assistant district attorney Shannon Lucey, it was Broadnax “that created the situation that injured innocent bystanders.”

The nine-count indictment alleges he “recklessly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death.”


Anonymous Will Best December 06, 2013 9:51 AM  

Only 24 dogs... they must be having a slow year, but I guess the holiday season stats aren't in yet. Really though, when you consider the NYPD deal with a city of 8 million, 30 people is a rounding error. It would be interesting to know gun usage not just discharges, because if those are sufficiently low then it would be time to disarm the police.

The big brother surveillance network is already handling red light and speed infractions. So I imagine a policeman's job now is mostly about filing property damage reports, you don't need a gun for that.

Then again we do let anybody who wants to live a feral existence perhaps if we were to stop doing that policemen really could be just an administrative job.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 December 06, 2013 9:52 AM  

@Salt,

Just goes to prove that there is an aristocracy in America. The police are a protected class.

Anonymous Bobo December 06, 2013 9:59 AM  

"How much alcohol would the average member of the Dread Ilk have to consume to have a hit rate that low?"

When I was a kid, one of our 90+ year old neighbors would knock off work (!) early and sit on his back porch, drinking & shooting. An amazing education for me as a 7 year-old. I'd set up old whiskey bottles & beer cans 75yds out on his fence posts and watch him pop them off. The more he drank, the better he shot.
He accidentally shot his hoe handle one day, said in retrospect it was the best shot he ever made...

Anonymous Salt December 06, 2013 10:03 AM  

What boggles the mind is this statement within the indictment - “recklessly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death,” as such is never said about scantily clad women - recklessly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of being raped.

Anonymous JW December 06, 2013 10:14 AM  

When NYPD officers fire 331 shots, and hit 16 targeted people, 24 dogs, but also 14 bystanders, there is a problem.

Yes. Those dam dogs and bystanders keep jumping in front of the bullets.

Anonymous JW December 06, 2013 10:20 AM  

Just goes to prove that there is an aristocracy in America. The police are a protected class.

Yes. And they protect the higher aristocracy.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 December 06, 2013 10:22 AM  

Go back to the Dorner incident and the LAPD. Those panicky idiots showered a pickup truck with two old, fat ladies inside with more than 100 bullets and didn't hit the occupants.
Or a case from a few years ago where the LAPD had a Ford Explorer surrounded with something like 30 officers. The officers dumped hundreds of rounds at the Explorer and only hit it something like 15 times. Most of the rest of the shots went into the neighborhood's houses.
Most cops are probably fine joking around at the indoor range at 20 yards, but time and again when they're under pressure and the adrenaline's flowing, they're incredibly bad shots.
Which is one more piece of evidence that puts the lie to the claim that a cop has the most dangerous job in America. If that were true, they'd be acclimated to the danger enough were simply drawing their weapon didn't elevate their heart rate and dump flight/fight hormones into their system.

Anonymous Steveo December 06, 2013 10:32 AM  

Anyone that would live in that nightmare... deserves it.
Enjoy when the lights & groceries run out.
Cause the cops will be well fed &
protecting the donuts.

The crime Broadnax should be charged with is...
NOT STANDING STILL LIKE A PAPER TARGET.

The idiot cops were so afraid of the 3-D man that could move, they couldn't hit anything but bystanders. Brave though they are in front of the paper w/ zombies or perps with the bragging and all. So the new crime we need is "Not standing still while being shot at by police" and if there's two people involved... "Conspiracy to commit movement while being shot at by police"


Anonymous Bobo December 06, 2013 10:32 AM  

"How much alcohol would the average member of the Dread Ilk have to consume to have a hit rate that low?"

When I was a kid, one of our 90+ year old neighbors would knock off work (!) early and sit on his back porch, drinking & shooting. An amazing education for me as a 7 year-old. I'd set up old whiskey bottles & beer cans 75yds out on his fence posts and watch him pop them off. The more he drank, the better he shot.
He accidentally shot his hoe handle one day, said in retrospect it was the best shot he ever made...

Anonymous Feh December 06, 2013 10:35 AM  

Just goes to prove that there is an aristocracy in America. The police are a protected class.

The KGB protected the Communist Party. That didn't make either the KGB or the CPSU "aristocrats".

Anonymous Edjamacator December 06, 2013 10:44 AM  

New Jersey people want to be helpless so I think that's a great place to place the knock out game.

Hardly all of us do.

Anonymous bw December 06, 2013 10:45 AM  

De-fund and Disarm

Anonymous RC December 06, 2013 10:49 AM  

"Most cops are probably fine joking around at the indoor range at 20 yards, but time and again when they're under pressure and the adrenaline's flowing, they're incredibly bad shots."

True. This is why well-practiced youngsters often miss easy shots at their first few deer or coyote, and why good military training attempts to mimic battle conditions.

Anonymous DT December 06, 2013 10:51 AM  

Go back to the Dorner incident and the LAPD. Those panicky idiots showered a pickup truck with two old, fat ladies inside with more than 100 bullets and didn't hit the occupants.

Should I be upset that LAPD is filled with cowards who rain bullets on a vehicle that barely looks like the vehicle of an armed suspect?

Or relieved that they can't hit anyone inside?

Anonymous JW December 06, 2013 11:16 AM  

One advantage to having hundreds of laws is that one of them may "stick" against a suspect. Also, if one grand jury declines to indict another one will, so just jury shop. Very rarely are police held to account for their actions. Those in power protect the police, just as the police protect those in power. See how it all works.

Anonymous Giraffe December 06, 2013 11:22 AM  

Hardly all of us do.

I know. I just like it when vibrant things happen in blue states. You should move to Virginia. Professor Hale wants company.

Anonymous Starbuck December 06, 2013 11:27 AM  

When I was a kid, one of our 90+ year old neighbors would knock off work (!) early and sit on his back porch, drinking & shooting. An amazing education for me as a 7 year-old. I'd set up old whiskey bottles & beer cans 75yds out on his fence posts and watch him pop them off. The more he drank, the better he shot.
He accidentally shot his hoe handle one day, said in retrospect it was the best shot he ever made...-


not that impressive... unless he was using iron sights.

Anonymous Edjamacator December 06, 2013 11:33 AM  

I just like it when vibrant things happen in blue states.

I like it when vibrant things happen to "blue people." I hate knowing that libertarians and conservatives suffer because of the stupidity of others. If only we had states that were only us and those that were only leftist. That would be cause to celebrate an entire state suffering the consequences of their own idiocy.

Anonymous Worm December 06, 2013 11:37 AM  

I am a cop, firearms instructor and SWAT operator. In my 15 years I have observed this sad truth: most cops cannot shoot worth a damn and are not warriors.

They have good intentions and want to get the bad guy but the do not have the discipline to devote their personal time and money to master any martial skills.

Add this to the fact that police departments view training as an afterthought, spending as little on it as possible so they can check the box and you get the current hit ratio for police shootings.

Then there is the insidious psyops campaign of the Left to weaken the American male. It starts in kindergarden. Guns are evil, physical confrontation of any kind is evil, etc.

There are a few of us who are dedicated. Some are martial artists, some are gun guys but in order to be proficient we have to dedicate our own time and resources. We are few.

Do not rely on the police to protect you. Concealed carry everywhere you can, then: range, dojo, gym, repeat.

Anonymous Stickwick December 06, 2013 11:46 AM  

Worm: I am a cop, firearms instructor and SWAT operator. In my 15 years I have observed this sad truth: most cops cannot shoot worth a damn and are not warriors.

Thank you for being so forthright about this, Worm. One of the main arguments of the gun-grabbers is that the ordinary citizen is not well-trained enough to be trusted with a firearm in public, whereas the police are. I had heard from police officers I know that most of them don't practice. OTOH, most CHL holders I know spend a lot of time practicing at the range. They also seem to be a lot more circumspect than the police about how and under what conditions they'd be willing to pull a firearm and use it. I dunno whether that's because they're held to a higher standard of accountability under the law or because of a different mindset, but either way, I feel safer knowing I'm in the midst of armed law-abiding citizens than the police.

Anonymous Cryan Ryan December 06, 2013 11:49 AM  

Twas a cop o'er in Gotham City,
Who was neither happy nor charming nor witty,
He could really have fun,
When he unleashed his gun,
Twas a pity his aim was so shitty.

Blogger AdognamedOp December 06, 2013 11:50 AM  

There was a time when the wandering retard disrupting traffic in Times Square was dispatched with, at worse, a whack from the Billy club. Now,.. he's shot at and charged with the collateral damage caused by statist retards in blue.
Not hard to imagine how this is gonna end..

OpenID newrebeluniv December 06, 2013 11:53 AM  

If the gun control advocates were truly serious about wanting to reduce the amount of unnecessary harm caused by firearms, they'd be campaigning to disarm the police, not the American people.

Here's an idea: Since the police ARE the American people, let's permit them to have the same rights to self defense and access to weapons that everyone else has. Exactly the same. And the same levels of risk of prosecution and personal liability for the harm they do with those weapons while exercising their rights.

Just a suggestion.

--Hale

Anonymous Brain Death December 06, 2013 12:00 PM  

"I am a cop, firearms instructor and SWAT operator. In my 15 years I have observed this sad truth: most cops cannot shoot worth a damn and are not warriors."

My NRA "First Steps" instructor was the retired chief of police of a large town (50k pop), and he told me flat out "most cops can't shoot for shit". There were a bunch of cops a few bays over at the range fooling around (breaking range rules to some extent), essentially proving his point. He went on to say that, in his jurisdiction, officers only had to fire 30 rounds a year to re-qualify.

Anonymous zen0 December 06, 2013 12:06 PM  

Go back to the Dorner incident and the LAPD. Those panicky idiots showered a pickup truck with two old, fat ladies inside with more than 100 bullets and didn't hit the occupants.

Another example of excess liquidity leading to malinvestment. If the cops had to buy their own rounds like a citizen, they would not be so wasteful.

Anonymous Giraffe December 06, 2013 12:13 PM  

I like it when vibrant things happen to "blue people." I hate knowing that libertarians and conservatives suffer because of the stupidity of others. If only we had states that were only us and those that were only leftist. That would be cause to celebrate an entire state suffering the consequences of their own idiocy.

I was surprised that only 58% of New Jersey voted Obama in 2012.

Everyone is going to suffer the consequences of big government idiocy.

Anonymous Edjamacator December 06, 2013 12:21 PM  

I was surprised that only 58% of New Jersey voted Obama in 2012.

Everyone is going to suffer the consequences of big government idiocy.


I was surprised as well, but had chalked it up to many of Obama's supporters being too lazy to find a polling place or too busy avoiding the po-pos. Of course, it's also surprising every state didn't have 110% of the population voting for him, given how honest the last election was.

Anonymous Mr. Stubby December 06, 2013 12:52 PM  

I am a cop, firearms instructor and SWAT operator. In my 15 years I have observed this sad truth: most cops cannot shoot worth a damn and are not warriors.

They have good intentions...


You think your forthrightness in telling us that most cops can't shoot straight absolves you from telling us you are operator, warrior, and have good intentions. But you couldn't help yourself, could you? Your mindset, whether you want to admit it or not, is exactly why we have all these cops running amok. Everyone is a operator and warrior with good intentions, except you... undoubtedly. Face it, you are an agent and product of the State. And so far, agents of the State have proven over and over again, that there is no law that they will not enforce, up to, and including, the use of State sanctioned deadly force for the most mundane things.

You would have been more honest if you had said that you are a operator for the State. That you are a warrior for the State. That your good intentions are only as good as the intentions of the State. Or better yet: All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.” - C.S. Lewis


Anonymous Will Best December 06, 2013 1:10 PM  

Another example of excess liquidity leading to malinvestment. If the cops had to buy their own rounds like a citizen, they would not be so wasteful.

The problem is they do have to pay for the bullets if they want to go to a range, its the ones in the line of duty that are free. Maybe if they got 1000 rounds free each year for practice but then were charged $50 for every time they discharged their weapon in the line of duty they might show a bit more restraint.

Of course, it's also surprising every state didn't have 110% of the population voting for him, given how honest the last election was.

The use of the IRS and Dept of Labor going after Romney donors, and tea party grass roots along with use of big labor and deviant pride shock troops to harass family members of the opposition, and the revelation that Big media hid relevant facts about Obama are all either

1) Unrelieved by most of the left or
2) Considered irrelevant because it doesn't surpress speech or voter turnout

However, you would have either have to have a cellar temperature IQ or admit ends justify the means if people could demonstrate more votes than residents in a precinct on a widespread basis.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 06, 2013 1:11 PM  

Feh December 06, 2013 10:35 AM
The KGB protected the Communist Party. That didn't make either the KGB or the CPSU "aristocrats".



meet the new upper class, same as the old upper class:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomenklatura
"The Soviet power structure essentially consisted (according to its critics) of groups of vassals (clients) who had an overlord (the patron)."

to phrase it another way, "pig shit by any other name would still stink as sweetly ..."

OpenID newrebeluniv December 06, 2013 1:13 PM  

Professor Hale wants company.--Giraffe

Point of order. Obscure reference to inside joke from another blog.

--Hale

Anonymous Feh December 06, 2013 1:30 PM  

@Bob,

Exactly. We have a nomenklatura like the Soviets did. But neither our nomenklatura nor the Soviet one were aristocrats according to the proper meaning of the term.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 06, 2013 1:34 PM  

My father in law (wife's step father) is a cop. He has shot for 50 years and is a marksman and wins pistol championships regularly. He says very few can shoot at all. He said many show up at qualifications with guns that have never been fired. Most female cops are a hazard to themselves according to him.

About him, he is a power mad jerk who threatens me on a regular basis. All I have to do is stand up to him and he shrinks like a little girl. Very twisted. He cannot handle any power, any...

I shoot very well and often... I live in the middle of nowhere and take advantage of the seclusion. My neighborhood sounds like a war zone on Saturday's and Sunday's... people shooting .50 cals, elephant guns, AR's, SOCOM's, etc...

I love it.

Anonymous Giraffe December 06, 2013 1:53 PM  

Point of order. Obscure reference to inside joke from another blog.

--Hale


Yes, the weather really is nice here right now.

Anonymous WaterBoy December 06, 2013 1:56 PM  

Reminds me of the Great Bison Massacre of 2005, where it took AR-15-wielding cops 83 shots to kill 5 buffalo (along with hitting four houses and a car -- but mercifully, zero bystanders). Although, I think their overall hit rate was much, much higher than the NYPD; it's just that buffalo can absorb a lot of .223.

What they use now is the right tool with the right technique. Funny that in these situations, they don't need cops so much as they need hunters.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 06, 2013 1:58 PM  

Feh December 06, 2013 1:30 PM
But neither our nomenklatura nor the Soviet one were aristocrats according to the proper meaning of the term.



really? perhaps you'd like to provide a 'proper' definition?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristocracy
The concept evolved in Ancient Greece, whereby a council of leading citizens was commonly empowered ..., in which a council of male citizens was appointed as the "senate" of a city state or other political unit.

historically, there is NO REQUIREMENT of heredity or inheritance for a class to be recognized as an 'aristocracy'.

Anonymous WaterBoy December 06, 2013 2:02 PM  

"the collateral damage produced by the sharpshooters in the NYPD make Graven Tower look downright solicitous by comparison"

Will Graven Tower ever miss a shot? (No spoilers, please -- haven't received the hardcover yet.)

Anonymous Giraffe December 06, 2013 2:05 PM  

Reminds me of the Great Bison Massacre of 2005

That is hilarious.

Anonymous JW December 06, 2013 2:08 PM  

"The use of the IRS and Dept. of Labor going after Romney donors, and tea party grass roots along with use of big labor and deviant pride shock troops to harass family members of the opposition" here again more enforcers serving/protecting those in power" , "and the revelation that Big media hid relevant facts about Obama"... the mainstream media, including Fox only dance around the edges, there are limits as to how far they will go in unmasking the powerful in government.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 06, 2013 2:08 PM  

WaterBoy December 06, 2013 2:02 PM
Will Graven Tower ever miss a shot?



suppression and cover fire.

it's like how you can't be lost if you don't care where you are.

Graven may not actually hit somebody with the next bullet he fires ... but he was only trying to make you duck and cover anyways.

OpenID newrebeluniv December 06, 2013 2:13 PM  

What they use now is the right tool with the right technique. Funny that in these situations, they don't need cops so much as they need hunters.

They don't have people who herd bison? The bison somehow got on that truck by themselves the first time?

--Hale

Anonymous Giraffe December 06, 2013 2:33 PM  

They don't have people who herd bison? The bison somehow got on that truck by themselves the first time?

They are usually herded inside a pasture, into a corral designed to make that easier, by a person driving a pickup. You would not herd them on foot, and it would not be easy to get them into a pen from the outside, when there is no corral to make that easier. Once they are in the corral, it isn't hard to get them on the truck. The Native Americans here raise them. It is common when you get them in the corral that one bison will get gored/disemboweled in the close quarters.

Bison are not something to screw around with. Every few years a tourist here finds that out the hard way.

That said, I don't think they needed to shoot up the neighborhood.

OpenID newrebeluniv December 06, 2013 3:08 PM  

I saw a lot of bison in Kansas. But they weren't vibrant big-city bison. They were well mannered and not a single one of them was carrying a gun.

Anonymous Giraffe December 06, 2013 3:28 PM  

There was a video floating around on facebook a couple months ago.

A cop from a town a couple hours from here was shooting at a road killed deer. That's right, he was trying to put a long dead deer out of its misery.

Anonymous VD December 06, 2013 3:34 PM  

Will Graven Tower ever miss a shot?

His marksmanship rating is mediocre. But "miss a shot" is a relative thing when you're using tac-nuke ammunition.

Anonymous WaterBoy December 06, 2013 3:38 PM  

Hale: "They don't have people who herd bison?"

I always wondered why the packing company didn't have a tranquilizer gun on hand themselves, rather than expecting the police or the Division of Wildlife to do it (it still cracks me up that they don't shoot "livestock" -- I'm guessing so there's no chance the drug will show up in the food supply, but still).

But Giraffe is right in his explanation above; it just isn't feasible to attempt to "herd" them in that situation where they escaped into the surrounding neighborhood. As soon as the cops got too close, they charged.

Anonymous Noah B. December 06, 2013 3:48 PM  

"I always wondered why the packing company didn't have a tranquilizer gun on hand themselves"

Those aren't easy to come by for whatever reason. I'm guessing that tranquilizing agents are actually a controlled substance but I'm not sure.

Anonymous WaterBoy December 06, 2013 3:54 PM  

VD: "His marksmanship rating is mediocre."

So, like a typical NYPD cop, then. Thanks, I was just wondering how closely the fiction modeled the reality in light of the OP.

James Bond hits far more often than he misses; Sterling Archer, a little less so.

Anonymous WaterBoy December 06, 2013 4:09 PM  

Noah B.: "I'm guessing that tranquilizing agents are actually a controlled substance but I'm not sure."

I'm sure you are correct. The delivery devices appear to be commercially available, but the drugs themselves probably require a license.

With all of the zoos, circuses, and movie animal handlers around, there's definitely some way to get it, and I just thought that meat packers who process bison would want to have that option available.

Anonymous DT December 06, 2013 4:14 PM  

Here's an idea: Since the police ARE the American people, let's permit them to have the same rights to self defense and access to weapons that everyone else has. Exactly the same. And the same levels of risk of prosecution and personal liability for the harm they do with those weapons while exercising their rights.

Extend that to all agents of government, state or Federal levels, and include rights to arrest and detainment for crime, as well as rights to "observe and record", and you have a deal.

If the government wants to install video cameras every where and the NSA wants to record all communications, I want to do the same. If I can't legally, then neither can they. Start prosecuting them and tossing them in jail.

Blogger subject by design December 06, 2013 4:39 PM  

@ Mr. Stubby

+1

Thanks for not letting that nonsense pass without comment.

Anonymous green needle December 06, 2013 6:42 PM  

Not only can the drugs be difficult to procure, using them adulterates the meat. And finding withdrawal times is difficult or impossible since many are not licensed for food animals

Blogger arborist December 06, 2013 8:11 PM  

I had a good friend in college who was a patrolman. He is now a lieutenant in the same police department. He told me once that he had not used his gun for months and was not sure if it even worked.

Anonymous Feh December 06, 2013 8:47 PM  

really? perhaps you'd like to provide a 'proper' definition?

It is an exercise for the student.

Hint: any definition that equates the Tsarist nobility with the Soviet nomenklatura is profoundly ignorant and hilariously stupid.

Anonymous kfg December 06, 2013 8:53 PM  

Uncle Jeff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGYttXa0d1k

Anonymous Bobo December 06, 2013 9:55 PM  

When I was a kid, one of our 90+ year old neighbors would knock off work (!) early and sit on his back porch, drinking & shooting. An amazing education for me as a 7 year-old. I'd set up old whiskey bottles & beer cans 75yds out on his fence posts and watch him pop them off. The more he drank, the better he shot.He accidentally shot his hoe handle one day, said in retrospect it was the best shot he ever made...

"-not that impressive... unless he was using iron sights."

As I remember, it was a pump action .22 with a heavy octagon barrel, sometimes a Win 94 30-30 if his wife was gone. She didn't like the racket.
I'm pretty sure he'd never looked thru a scope in his life

Anonymous The other skeptic December 06, 2013 11:51 PM  

Of course, when the cops start using depleted uranium hollow point rounds their accuracy will improve.

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