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Monday, December 09, 2013

"Send the lot back"

An English UKIP politician is attacked for saying what most English people now fervently believe:
A high-profile UKIP politician is facing a racism storm after being caught on camera saying all immigrants to Britain should be sent back home. Victoria Ayling, who made headlines when she defected from the Tories in March, made the inflammatory comments in a 20-minute video seen by The Mail on Sunday. On the subject of immigration she talks about restricting the numbers of foreigners entering the UK, but then adds: ‘I just want to send the lot back, but I can’t say that.’
Of course, she and UKIP are making a huge mistake by backing down and trying to hide behind the "illegal immigrant" fig leaf.  But the problem with mass immigration is not whether the immigrants are legal or not, it is that there are simply far too many of them.

No nation can survive an immigrant population, including second and third generations, of more than five percent without seeing its legal and cultural traditions significantly transformed.  That transformation is precisely why anti-American forces have been pushing mass immigration since 1965. And it is why the EU elite has been forcing it on the European nations as well. But the tide is rapidly turning, as the Labour party leaders have learned:
Mr Morris, a former No 10 adviser to Tony Blair at the time of the ‘open-door’ policy, used the social-networking website Twitter to announce on Monday evening: ‘Recipe for a miserable evening:  off to do focus groups on immigration.’

And afterwards, he wrote, in a line dripping with sarcasm: ‘Tonight’s focus groups as progressive as  I hoped,’ adding: ‘Their plan: end migration and fill jobs with Brits who have to take job.’ He declared that it had left him ‘depressed, as you might imagine’. The liberal views on immigration of many of Labour’s frontbenchers are not shared by most voters.

In a recent opinion poll, 72 per cent of respondents favoured slamming the door on unskilled immigrants, while 59 per cent thought we should allow fewer relatives of people already living in Britain into the country to join them.
Multiculturalism and mass immigration are already mortally wounded, even as the Obama administration tries to figure out how to ram immigration amnesty through Congress. Legal immigrants are now being openly attacked across continental Europe, from Hungary to Greece. Saudi Arabia has announced plans to deport 2 million immigrants, which represents nearly 7 percent of its total population, and has already deported over 100,000.

And on the Daily Mail site, a considerable portion of the 2300+ comments are strongly in favor of Ms Ayling's opinion. The top-rated comment on the article, with 11,105 upvotes to 3,751 downvotes, was this: "How 95% of the UK feels but are for some Reason shouldn't say!"

The age of mass immigration is obviously over. Multiculturalism is a failed and societally destructive concept and it is now eminently clear that large-scale immigration devastates advanced economies. Civilized repatriations must begin and they must begin within the next ten years. If they do not, history strongly suggests that the world will enter into another era of vicious ethnic cleansing and mass killings.

Here is the vital point I hope you will at least try to understand: it doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter what I think. It doesn't even matter what Barack Obama or David Cameron think. It doesn't matter what any of us prefer or believe to be ethically or morally right. The great historical patterns always overwhelm national politics and specific ideologies in the course of time. Just as the various mono-ethnic nations came into being in the first place, they will recreate themselves over and over again, and there is no government or ideology that is capable of standing in the way of the basic human instinct to be surrounded by one's own kind in periods of uncertainty, economic contraction and international chaos.

Labels:

159 Comments:

Anonymous damntull December 09, 2013 12:13 PM  

Vox's rhetoric regarding immigration is the best I've read. Too bad we haven't got any politicians on our side who've mastered the craft. Seems to me that's what's needed as a first step.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother December 09, 2013 12:19 PM  

The suicidal open borders libertarians need to FUCK OFF. I am so tired of their crap.

OpenID simplytimothy December 09, 2013 12:20 PM  

...there is no government or ideology that is capable of standing in the way of the basic human instinct to be surrounded by one's own kind in periods of uncertainty, economic contraction and international chaos.

I prefer my people in times of certainty, economic expansion and international order as well.

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2013 12:21 PM  

> ...and there is no government or ideology that is capable of standing in the way of the basic human instinct to be surrounded by one's own kind in periods of uncertainty, economic contraction and international chaos.

Rudyard Kipling: The Stranger.

Anonymous Josh December 09, 2013 12:22 PM  

People forget that conservatives had abandoned Bush in the summer of 2001 because he had announced amnesty as his top priority.

Anonymous Krul December 09, 2013 12:24 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother - The suicidal open borders libertarians need to FUCK OFF. I am so tired of their crap.

...Dude... The British Labour party isn't libertarian. Neither is Obama, FYI.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother December 09, 2013 12:25 PM  

I'm talking here in the US, Krull.

Anonymous Josh December 09, 2013 12:27 PM  

The suicidal open borders libertarians need to FUCK OFF. I am so tired of their crap.

I don't think you'll find many them here. They're all at Reason mag, which is apparently also supporting government mandated vaccinations.

Anonymous Edjamacator December 09, 2013 12:29 PM  

Here is the vital point I hope you will at least try to understand: it doesn't matter what you think.

Whining leftist idiot:
"Of course not! Duh, all that's important is how I FEEL about it!"

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother December 09, 2013 12:29 PM  

Yeah I saw your post on FB. There's a head scratcher.

Anonymous MrGreenMan December 09, 2013 12:30 PM  

They should just say it and start ending this bizarre thoughtcrime category of having a political opinion the country-clubbers think is unsavory.

This "Oh, I'm not a Christian....they're mean, nasty people who say you are a sinner... but I do go to St. Michael's" killed the Anglican Church in England.

Blogger JartStar December 09, 2013 12:32 PM  

I've never seen a poll, but just reading libertarian info I'd say the majority, perhaps vast majority of people who identify as libertarian support open boarders. The conundrum for the libertarian who wants closed boarders is that the fence which keeps people out and the police force which expels the illegals currently in the country won't go away, and can be used to fence the population in and oppress them.

Anonymous MrGreenMan December 09, 2013 12:33 PM  

It looks like we're there already with Obamacare as an ethnic cleansing program.

Anonymous Krul December 09, 2013 12:33 PM  

The liberal views on immigration of many of Labour’s frontbenchers are not shared by most voters.

I've gotten the sense - possibly just optimism on my part - that this is part of a larger pattern. Even though the progs are still nominally in charge, the perspective of the people has quietly shifted from Prog/PC/Leftism towards a more AltRight/Realtalk perspective. People in general are growing less likely to take PC stuff like multiculturalism seriously, and less likely to keep quiet about it.

Anonymous MrGreenMan December 09, 2013 12:35 PM  

@Krul

Hopefully some scales will fall off some eyes as more Americans realize the Hannity-Boehner-McCain-Romney Republican party is the "PC" in the Prog/PC/Leftism troika.

Anonymous Krul December 09, 2013 12:37 PM  

JartStar - people who identify as libertarian support open boarders.

Heh. Pun intended?

Anonymous GG December 09, 2013 12:37 PM  

"Send the lot back.."

Excellent, because there are several British media morons I would like to see the US deport immediately.

Anonymous Josh December 09, 2013 12:39 PM  

JartStar, there is a continuum between open borders and a police state. It's not automatically one or the other. You could eliminate a vast majority of immigrants without creating a police state.

Anonymous A. Nonymous December 09, 2013 12:40 PM  

Mass immigration and the resultant inter-ethnic/racial friction and competition are ultimately just "The Game" of Highlander's Immortals writ large. "In the end, there can only be one" and all that sort of thing.

Anonymous Josh December 09, 2013 12:41 PM  

Excellent, because there are several British media morons I would like to see the US deport immediately.

Yes, clearly that's the peril facing America, not the millions of third world barbarians and semi-civilized.

Anonymous Krul December 09, 2013 12:44 PM  

JartStar - The conundrum for the libertarian who wants closed boarders is that the fence which keeps people out and the police force which expels the illegals currently in the country won't go away, and can be used to fence the population in and oppress them.

Are fences and police really necessary? Hypothetically, is it possible that people will segregate on their own without laws?

For example, wouldn't businesses be reluctant to hire or serve those they consider foreigners? Just wondering to myself here.

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 12:59 PM  

and there is no government or ideology that is capable of standing in the way of the basic human instinct to be surrounded by one's own kind in periods of uncertainty, economic contraction and international chaos.

You must admit that so far this is speculation. Because so far the US government is in fact doing just that. You are supposing that a coming future event will make your statement true, but in the US the government has done just what you say is no possible.

You can argue that the last recession is/was not big enough but so far there is still movement towards more immigration, not less - just what you say is impossible.

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 1:06 PM  

Krul--

The best way to limit people is not a fence. It's simply enforcement. For example, drug enforcement has made it so that state legalized drug businesses can't open bank accounts or take credit cards. This is soley based on the power of federal enforcement. They don't sell all sorts of prohibited drugs.

If 1/10th of the vigor that was used against drugs was used against illegal immigrants, it would be over in weeks.

That's without even making new laws. Other laws could easily target illegal immigrants. For example, international cash remittances must go through the same paperwork as large cash transactions. And after your first one in a calendar year, there is a 50% surtax, that increases 10% each additional transfer after the first one. You can take that tax as a credit on your income taxes.

There aren't that many immigrants who come here as political refugees. I was one of them a long time ago, and it was not that hard of a process. Maybe a touch on the too easy side. Until I gained my citizenship though, there was no presumption that I belong here any more than a tourist to Disneyworld is owed a place in line for Thunder Mountain.

Anonymous Stilicho December 09, 2013 1:13 PM  

You can argue that the last recession is/was not big enough but so far there is still movement towards more immigration, not less - just what you say is impossible.

Please list your evidence that the citizens of the United States are now more in favor of foreign immigration to the U.S. than they were previously.

What part of "great historical patterns" do you take issue with?

What was your country of origin again?

Anonymous damntull December 09, 2013 1:16 PM  

@dh
Does making predictions based on consistent historical patterns constitute 'speculation?' Doesn't seem to fit the definition.

Anonymous VD December 09, 2013 1:17 PM  

You must admit that so far this is speculation. Because so far the US government is in fact doing just that. You are supposing that a coming future event will make your statement true, but in the US the government has done just what you say is no possible.

If you think in terms of four-year election cycles, I have nothing to discuss with you. It's like trying to argue with someone who has just bounced off the diving board and insists that he can fly. After all, he hasn't landed yet!

Blogger JCclimber December 09, 2013 1:23 PM  

And the reason it won't happen peacefully this time is the same reason as the previous times.....

.....because people refuse to take a good hard look at reality and hope that things will somehow just work themselves out without violence.

We haven't grown any more moral in the 21st century. If anything, we've grown less moral but have grown better at faking morality. And better at fooling ourselves that because of the few token friendships we have with minorities and immigrants, and how they are portrayed in MSM.

Many will surprise themselves with their virulence against those they previously claimed to see as equals. Then their rationalization hamsters will get on the 'roid cycle and within hours or days it will all make sense again to their brains.

Anonymous Fran December 09, 2013 1:26 PM  

Agree with the UKIP pol that they would try to back away from her comment. She didn't but Nigel Farage called her remark odd.
He does tend to back down from these assertions about racism and UKIP.
They try and trap him by saying UKIP took alot of BNP voters.
Nigel gets out of this by saying that he can't be expected to weed out every member but I think he should start telling these asswipes that just because you don't agree with their opinion about race doesn't mean they should be totally disenfranchised.

Blogger Harold Carper December 09, 2013 1:27 PM  

dh, with minor exceptions, people self-segregate despite federal immigration policies. More Mexican immigrants just means more Mexican neighborhoods.

Anonymous BB December 09, 2013 1:38 PM  

My generation is young. We've only known the demographic winter of our own kind. Sometimes we are envious of our elders, who can think back of less precarious days, when our complete colonization probably wasn't even considered plausible. But then I remember it was them who brought this on us. To too many of them it is not plausible even now. I will not curse them categorically, lest I will be cursed by my grandchildren. But there is no place for them anymore. They must move out of the way.

Anonymous Aufhebend December 09, 2013 1:40 PM  

And on the other end of the globe, in the former colony of Singapore, the first riot in nearly 50 years breaks out in the neighbourhood of Little India. Apparently the uproar broke out after a drunk Indian national got off a bus, then was run over by that bus when he attempted to jaywalk. Most of the rioters were foreigner Indians (Singapore has a native Indian minority).

So far, the most common responses by so-called online have been to:
1) Accuse the whole nation of xenophobia, which in turn caused the foreigners to vent their frustration.
2) Go "But. But. But. Not all foreigners are like that!"
3) Insist on doing more for foreign workers when their own people are being neglected.

The disease of the Left does not discriminate. ...well. At least that's the only consistent thing in their anti-discrimination agenda.

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 1:42 PM  

Stil-

Please list your evidence that the citizens of the United States are now more in favor of foreign immigration to the U.S. than they were previously.

Woah woah woah. VD is claiming that no government has ever stood in the way of the basic human need to congregate and separate into like units. This has nothing do to with what some large or even small group of citizens want.

The GOVERNMENT is moving towards more immigration, amnesty, and all that. It maybe 50/50 odds that we get MORE immigration. That's without even discussing the fact that there has been no backslide at all, and absolutely no legal movement towards closing the borders, mass deportation, or anything else like it.

Public opinion, I believe, is fairly firmly set against changing anything. But I haven't really followed that end of whats going on (i.e., what people say they want).

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 1:45 PM  

If you think in terms of four-year election cycles, I have nothing to discuss with you. It's like trying to argue with someone who has just bounced off the diving board and insists that he can fly. After all, he hasn't landed yet!

This fair enough. My view is that immigration has been growing, illegal immigration has been growing, and that there have been successively large amnesties since the mid-1960's.

At what point does your predication, that no government can stand in the way of the basic human desire/need to separate, become untrue? It's been 48 years give or take since the last big immigration reform and, if anything changes in the next 5 years, it sure looks like it will be MORE permissive, not less.

This is one long slow dive apparently...

Anonymous Josh December 09, 2013 1:46 PM  

But I haven't really followed that end of whats going on (i.e., what people say they want).

They want the illegals and others (Mexicans, Arabs, Somalis) to leave.

Anonymous VD December 09, 2013 1:51 PM  

My view is that immigration has been growing, illegal immigration has been growing, and that there have been successively large amnesties since the mid-1960's.

True. And it has been doing so during a period of economic growth followed by what may be the greatest credit bubble of all time, a bubble that has peaked, but has not yet even begun to contract.

See what happens when L1 contracts by 10 percent. Or 30 percent.

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 1:51 PM  

Does making predictions based on consistent historical patterns constitute 'speculation?' Doesn't seem to fit the definition.

I am not sure when it becomes speculation or prediction, it's a fair point. At some point, though, it's not enough to say "soon" when asked "When will your prediction be true?". I am not sure we are there, but there are a long list of things that are happening now that haven't happened much before, or at all.

It is super easy to predict a catastrophic event is coming in a few years/decades. It's alo easy to pick on, say, Porky when he makes predictions in a 45 day time window.

But saying something is impossible because it hasn't happened before strikes me as being a little bit to pessimistic. Yes, I agree, that patterns tend to repeat themselves. But they are not always repeated. Ex post facto, World War II looks inevitable. Immediately following World War I, they did not look that way. After World War II, a future war between communist forces and the west looked invetiable. Now we can say a hundred reasons why it never happened.

The historical pattern should absolutely be the starting point for almost any discussion of what will happen in the future. But it is not the only data point to consider.

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 1:52 PM  

See what happens when L1 contracts by 10 percent. Or 30 percent.

What happened last time?

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 1:57 PM  

I guess more to the point, if a large economic contraction ever does come, and the country doesn't divide into sectarian fighting and expel the minorities, after how many years is your prediction bust? After how many years of the government holding society together - or some other force I suppose - does it become agreeable that government can hold it together. 10 years? 20 years?

And a corollary, what if that contraction never comes?

Blogger JartStar December 09, 2013 2:06 PM  

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 2:10 PM  

"I guess more to the point, if a large economic contraction ever does come, and the country doesn't divide into sectarian fighting and expel the minorities, after how many years is your prediction bust? "

How long did it take Rome to fall?

Anonymous Will Best December 09, 2013 2:10 PM  

I find most open borders libertarians really just lack pragmatism. It isn't that open borders are bad, its that open borders are disastrous within the framework of our current system. So many other libertarian ideals need to be put in place first before open borders can be implemented without the US becoming a 3rd world gold rush.

And in fact, that police state will have to come to fruition with the influx of 40 million immigrants as social unrest increases.

Anonymous Catan December 09, 2013 2:11 PM  

Dh seems to have no predictive ability whatsoever. It's as if something hasn't happened yet, so therefore it may never happen. He actually thinks there is a possibility there will never be a contraction? Hilarious.

Wishful thinking: now that's what you want to base political theory off of!

Anonymous VD December 09, 2013 2:12 PM  

What happened last time?

The Great Depression and immigration limited to 200k per year.

And a corollary, what if that contraction never comes?

(laughs) That is only possible if debt can expand to infinity.

I guess more to the point, if a large economic contraction ever does come, and the country doesn't divide into sectarian fighting and expel the minorities, after how many years is your prediction bust?

I don't know. A generation, perhaps? I've never analyzed the history in that manner, from how long it takes from the contraction starting to sectarian fighting. I don't know if we even have the necessary information to work it out and I'm far too busy to look into it now.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 2:13 PM  

Can I just point out that in 1954 alone the US Justice department deported 1,075,168 mexicans in Operation Wetback.

its not like this has never happened.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 2:16 PM  

"The Great Depression and immigration limited to 200k per year."

and in 1930 less than 25,000.

Anonymous Catan December 09, 2013 2:16 PM  

Does DH actually believe that we can maintain 0% interest rates forever?

We are already teetering on the edge of the cliff, it blows my mind that somebody can actually believe that it's possible that we are totally fine right now. He doesn't even seem to be worried. He just assumes the best possible outcome, it seems.

Anonymous Riot in Singapore December 09, 2013 2:22 PM  

@ dh After how many years of the government holding society together - or some other force I suppose - does it become agreeable that government can hold it together. 10 years? 20 years?


Singapore has had years of tensions building. The wealth gap is growing like crazy. Wealthy people are becoming ultra-wealthy, while the majority of folks see the cost of living rise at an alarming rate.

Strong ideological and ethnic differences are boiling over. And backlash against immigrants, especially from certain countries, is becoming an acute and obvious problem.

These issues are commonplace. Ideological differences. The wealth gap and economic uncertainty. Immigration challenges.


Sound familiar?

All it took to set it off was one guy getting run over by a bus.
All it took to set off the "Arab Spring" was one guy burning himself in protest.
All it took to start world war one was one guy shooting one other guy.

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 2:30 PM  

Catan-- I am no polyanna. The question is will be "the big one" - a 30% contraction in outstanding credit would be nearly unprecedented? Not common? I am not sure how unusual it would be, but I suspect it would be a very rare event.

There is a difference between floating along stagnant and growth for a few decades, and having the big one. Japan has been floating along stagnant and spinning for decades. What is more likely? I don't know, except to say that a lot of more fringe economists and analysts have been saying we are on the edge of a much bigger event since the beginning of the great recession. VD has said this is as big as the great depression, we just don't feel it is much because of the deficit spending and policies that hide the pain.

So the question is why is it obvious that we can't continue as we have been right now?

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 2:31 PM  

Riot-- the problem is that Signapore had a riot, it didn't just descend into a massive orgy of deportations and come apart at the seams. It's a better example for me - because it shows that social unrest and racial tension does not mean only collapse.

Anonymous DonReynolds December 09, 2013 2:35 PM  

Yesterday, apparently a young person posted a comment on another blog saying that it took ALL RACES of people to win the wars in American history and therefore that is the winning formula.....all races need to fight together. Growing up when they did (and being taught politically correct nonsense) is not a very good excuse, since history is not a closely guarded state secret (usually). Until 1960, the US population was 90+ percent white. Since then, the proportion has dropped.....13% is black and 16% is hispanic.....but that still leaves 71 percent who are neither.

Vox is completely correct when he says it does not matter what any of us think, or want, or hope, or wish. We are on collision course with a historic event that people will remember for a thousand years. Call it ethnic cleansing, call it revolution, call it civil war......it really does not matter what anyone calls it.

It is like a speeding train. Everyone can see it coming. There is plenty of warning. If you can see that you are standing on the tracks, you need to move yourself to safety now. There is no reason to wait until the last second. If you stay where you are, it will not be considered murder.....they will say it was suicide. You could easily have saved yourself, but you refused.

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 2:36 PM  

VD--

The Great Depression and immigration limited to 200k per year.
Okay. Well that pretty much proves that your point is obviously untrue. There was no massive deportation, and no great social schism, with natives sending back immigrant hordes. 200k immigration on 130 million people is still enough to get to your 5% mark within a generation.

I don't know. A generation, perhaps? I've never analyzed the history in that manner, from how long it takes from the contraction starting to sectarian fighting. I don't know if we even have the necessary information to work it out and I'm far too busy to look into it now.

Fair enough. Something to think about for the future. I almost am convinced by Karl Denniger that there hasn't been any real economic growth in this country since the end of the Carter administration - from then to now has all been credit expansion. If that's the case, then we have been living on credit and inflated standard of living since then. Which I could as possible. But if that is the case, we should be much closer to a huge sectarian conflict than meets the eye.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 2:37 PM  

" It's a better example for me - because it shows that social unrest and racial tension does not mean only collapse."

really?

Tell me... do you see a difference between the populations of Singapore and the United States?

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 2:41 PM  

"Okay. Well that pretty much proves that your point is obviously untrue. There was no massive deportation, and no great social schism, with natives sending back immigrant hordes. 200k immigration on 130 million people is still enough to get to your 5% mark within a generation. "

There was massive deportation.

Operation Wetback. over 1.2 million deported in 1954 alone. The program started in 1943.

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 2:49 PM  

Nate, nate. Stop putting illegal immigration into this. We are talking about unwinding legal immigration.

The only talk about illegal immigration is to show how counter cyclical this is right now - not only are we not massively deporting illegals, not only are we not slowing down illegal immigration, it is somewhat likely that we will make all those illegals legal, and accelerate even more legal immigration.

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 2:50 PM  

Nate, sorry, I don't know anything about Singapore. You'll have to spell it out for me!

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 3:01 PM  

"Nate, nate. Stop putting illegal immigration into this. We are talking about unwinding legal immigration."

DH... illegal vs legal is irrelevant. Mass deportation happened.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 3:04 PM  

"Nate, sorry, I don't know anything about Singapore. You'll have to spell it out for me!"

K.

When you have a homogenous population... massive economic problems rarely actually result collapse.

The US is not a homogenous population dh. Its very un... homogenous. It has wildly variant populations geographical with wildly variant ideas of what government should and should not be doing.

The reason why the US is different... is because the US is a bunch of separate regions or states held together with little more than momentum.

Balkanization is not only possible. Its the ONLY possibility.

Anonymous VD December 09, 2013 3:06 PM  

Okay. Well that pretty much proves that your point is obviously untrue. There was no massive deportation, and no great social schism, with natives sending back immigrant hordes.

Deporting over a million Mexicans, interning all the legal Japanese-Americans, to say nothing of a few fairly notorious ethnic actions in Europe.... I do not think you have correctly assessed the matter.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 3:09 PM  

oh Vox... don't you see... its different now. Because Time.

Anonymous VD December 09, 2013 3:11 PM  

The question is will be "the big one" - a 30% contraction in outstanding credit would be nearly unprecedented? Not common? I am not sure how unusual it would be, but I suspect it would be a very rare event.

Uncommon. The Great Depression represented a collapse from 287% credit/GDP to 140%. We recently peaked at 375% of credit/GDP. I hope we only see a 30 percent collapse. I don't think you understand how unusual the current economy is. This is the only time we've ever had interest rates this low, and the only time they've been held flat, since 1913.

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 3:11 PM  

Nate, and why is that different from Signapore, because they are homonegous? If that's the case then we can both agree they are not a good data point for or against VD/your argument because they are not the same as the US at a basic level (i.e., diverse).

As far legal v. illegal. I just read up on Operation Wetback which I had never heard of and it does seem very impressive. But on any given year, the US today, under our very lax immigration laws, deports over a 1/3 as many, and in some years, 1/2 as many as Operation Wetback did in it's biggest year. Granted we are population wise much larger, but as a regular course of business, we are deporting hundreds of thousands of people each year.

So I am not following. After the Great Depression is the claim that we did in fact empty out the country - essentially build a new native population? And that is evidence in times of economic problems we are likely to contract and center ourselves around like populations?

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 3:14 PM  

Deporting over a million Mexicans, interning all the legal Japanese-Americans, to say nothing of a few fairly notorious ethnic actions in Europe.... I do not think you have correctly assessed the matter.

And these are essentially caused by the Great Depression? That is a leap but maybe not a bad one. Both World War II and Wetback were both well after the start of the Great Depression. How would you presume to show it was casual?

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 3:18 PM  

"And these are essentially caused by the Great Depression? "

Pattern recognition. Thoughout history people are accepting of things like immigrations and promiscuous behavior and dress in good economic times. In bad economic times they behave very differently.

When things are going good people tend to not give a damn.

So its not that the depression causes it. its that the prosperity prevents it. once the prosperity goes... the knives come back out.

Anonymous GG December 09, 2013 3:21 PM  

"Yes, clearly that's the peril facing America, not the millions of third world barbarians and semi-civilized."

Actually Josh, we should not be so quick to defend the British immigrants who come here and become media mouthpieces. The first thing they always do is support immigration and attempt to ban guns. They lend a kind of credibility to places like CNN and MSNBC, which then proceed to sell their propaganda to millions of Americans. Those Brits are the ones who seem to have the greatest influence over the American people, who receive their words in their living rooms every night.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 3:23 PM  

"Granted we are population wise much larger, but as a regular course of business, we are deporting hundreds of thousands of people each year. "


Actually we don't. You'll find those numbers are extremely hard to come by these days. Go digging and you'll see what I mean.

Remember as well that Operation Wetback was not the sum total of deportation. That was just the mexicans.

The point is not that we emptied out the country. The point is that attitudes towards immigrants and immigration change with economics. One cannot simply look at 20 or 30 years of apparent prosperity and claim that everything is now different. It isn't. As soon as things go bad... the same pattern will repeat... and the worse the economics get... the worse the attitudes about immigrants and everything else will get.

Good economic times tend to dampen the in-group out-group pressures. Bad times exaggerate them.

Anonymous Josh December 09, 2013 3:24 PM  

Piers Morgan is lending credibility to CNN?

Btw, how many millions are watching his show?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 December 09, 2013 3:25 PM  

The suicidal open borders libertarians need to FUCK OFF. I am so tired of their crap.

I always find them amusing because they are often talking about how the border is an "imaginary" line created by the State or some such nonsense. Doing so ignores reality. Those borders came about long before the State was given the authority to manage it.

Anonymous RP-in-TX December 09, 2013 3:30 PM  

There is also self-deportation to consider. I've read somewhere that half of immigrants in the big 1880-1925 batch went home within 10 years and that number went up a lot after 1930.

When you also consider that during deflation governments tend to go after every penny they can get, it's not unlikely that a lot of immigrants might leave just to preserve their accumulated capital. I wouldn't be surprised to see lots of convenience stores and dry cleaners for sale once the great revenue hunt really begins.

Blogger JartStar December 09, 2013 3:47 PM  

As for the coming debt bomb, the question is who is going to pop first? Japan? China? The EU? The US?

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2013 3:58 PM  

> So the question is why is it obvious that we can't continue as we have been right now?

Because it requires continually increasing debt. Increasing debt requires people to buy that debt. Who's going to buy it?

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 4:10 PM  

No one is being sent home from the US. The whole world is being conditioned to despise American gun owning Christians who support the Constitution (and all other Christians).

When the false flag is completed, the gun owners will be hunted like dogs as they will be declared criminals overnight. Christians will be killed en masse in other lands as well.

There is no getting out of this.

The whole world is ready to kill the gun owning raciss' who are ruining Valhalla for everyone. They are easier to condition than a dog...

Obama still has to assume godhood... and mark my words it will happen. The same criminal interests that killed Kennedy know the great opportunity his assassination will bring.

In death he will be a god. He will far exceed Mandela. By the way, Mandela is the primer and the test. It went very well.

I pray that President Obama leaves office and lives a long healthy life. I pray for his safety. I pray I am wrong.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 4:14 PM  

Mr. Obama cannot trust anyone around him. He has to know his value at this time is nil. Those powerful interests he was recruited by are killers, plain and simple. His sole reason for being chosen was to fulfill their needs, not complete his resume. I believe there needs are divergent to his completing his presidency.

If I were Mr. Obama I would choose who is on my security detail, and I would know them very well.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 4:15 PM  

Tiny Tim... that's the dumbest things I've read here since GG started babbling about taxation trumping supply and demand.

Anonymous DonReynolds December 09, 2013 4:18 PM  

James Dixon...."Because it requires continually increasing debt. Increasing debt requires people to buy that debt. Who's going to buy it?"

Very good, James. The borrower (USA) will never tire of borrowing more money. The end will come when creditors decide to stop loaning more money and there may be no warning or event that pulls that trigger. Already, the US Government could not stand for the interest on the national debt to inch up a percentage point or two and that is the only device they have left to keep borrowing more money.
I expect the Federal Reserve will begin to exercise some of the tools that they have not used in a while to shave down on privately-held debt, such as consumer credit controls and a ban on corporate acquisitions and mergers. I also expect the IRS rules to change to require private retirement (and other savings) accounts to be held in T-bills and Federal bonds. This will reduce the pressure on the Federal Reserve and foreign creditors and show that the US Government is making an effort to raise as much of their revenues domestically. Yes, more taxes too. But none of this will work, it will only buy Obama enough time to leave office. Sooner or later, the bill will come due and spending cuts will be necessary......much bigger than can even be seriously discussed at this time. So you see, it is not necessary to push the Republicans from behind or form a new political party. The gravy train will grind to a stop when the wheels fall off.

Anonymous Gara December 09, 2013 4:20 PM  

The suicidal open borders libertarians need to FUCK OFF. I am so tired of their crap.

To be fair, libertarians are also against welfare programms giving immigrants free stuff, so you don't have the problem of people going to a country just to leech the benefits. An immigrant would HAVE to contribute to the economy to be able to live there.

Libertarians also tend to be pro-freedom of association, so you would not have leftist pressure forcing you to hire immigrants. If a bussiness owner wanted to hire nothing but white males, he could do that with no problem.

So immigration is less of a problem in a real libertarian system.

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2013 4:24 PM  

> The borrower (USA) will never tire of borrowing more money. The end will come when creditors decide to stop loaning more money...

If I were a betting person, I'd make a different guess, Don. I'd guess the US abandons the concept of borrowing money and simply goes back to printing it in house.

Inflation will take off almost immediately, of course, but you know how little that matters to our politicians.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 09, 2013 4:28 PM  

I always find them amusing because they are often talking about how the border is an "imaginary" line created by the State or some such nonsense. Doing so ignores reality. Those borders came about long before the State was given the authority to manage it.

Wasn't it George Washington who said a government is like a fire, a useful tool but a fearsome master? I'd really like to have some other choice besides either freezing to death or burning my house down.

(Speaking of which, can we please have some global warming about now? I mean, if I have to give up incandescent light bulbs and live in poverty because of AGW, can I at least have the damn warming? It's effing cold. Eh, well, that's liberalism for you - first your house burns down then you freeze to death.)

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 4:28 PM  

Nate, I guess you think Oswald was the lone assassin in Kennedy's death?

I understand your inability to grasp who runs this thing.

Anonymous VD December 09, 2013 4:28 PM  

And these are essentially caused by the Great Depression? That is a leap but maybe not a bad one. Both World War II and Wetback were both well after the start of the Great Depression. How would you presume to show it was casual?

dh, you're inadvertently revealing both a level of historical ignorance and a binary, adolescent reasoning here. This is history, not science and you're committing a category error by discussing it as if it were.

No one knows what is "causal". But it is very, very, very well known that economic contractions, war, disease, social unrest, and inter-ethnic strife are strongly correlated. Perhaps you recall my writing about socionomics; Bob Prechter has written several books theorizing about how predictable social mood patterns are the causal factor. Generational Dynamics sees generational patterns as the causal factor.

I don't know which is the trigger. I only know that the patterns are as obvious as seeing smoke billowing in the distance and concluding that because the wind is blowing towards you, a fire is on the way.

When you suggest possibilities like "well, what if credit expands forever", it doesn't cause me, or anyone knowledgeable, to conclude you are seriously seeking to understand anything. You might as reasonably ask what happens if American is invaded by leprechauns who start mass-raping Hispanics.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother December 09, 2013 4:34 PM  

Gara,

Utilitarian concerns. I am looking at culture clash, demographic replacement and Balkanization. Free association accelerates Balkanization. Are libertarians trying to create another Yugoslavia on a scale 10x as big?

Think of the children.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 09, 2013 4:36 PM  

The point is that attitudes towards immigrants and immigration change with economics. One cannot simply look at 20 or 30 years of apparent prosperity and claim that everything is now different. It isn't. As soon as things go bad... the same pattern will repeat... and the worse the economics get... the worse the attitudes about immigrants and everything else will get.

Exactly. Humboldt County, CA, like most places on the West Coast, had a large Chinese population in the late 1800's, courtesy of railroad construction mostly. But the 1882-1885 Depression (the third longest in US history, if you don't count the one we're in right now...) which was probably the result of the "Railroad Construction Bubble" popping, brought economic hard times to Humboldt County. In 1885, a gang war between two rival Tongs resulted in a stray bullet killing a Eureka City Councilman. As a result, every Asian in the county* was rounded up and "deported" to San Francisco.

* - except for one, the cook at a lumber camp. They went out to get him, but the lumberjacks told the posse that they weren't giving up their cook.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 4:42 PM  

Nate, I stand corrected.

Presidential assassinations and attempts at such are a figment of my imagination. Mr. Obama works for people who have the sole focus of providing healthcare to the poor and removing guns so we can all be safe and secure. All assassinations are carried out by lone gunman, kooks if you will, with no affiliations. There are no assassins on the payroll of the elites. I am sure they find killing abhorrent.

The power structure values life, every life. They would never harm anyone. They vaccinate the children out of love. They drop ordinance on children and the elderly to save them. They abort babies by the bushel every minute because they want the living to have a better life.

They would never exploit anyone or anything.

Thank you for setting me straight.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 4:42 PM  

"Nate, I guess you think Oswald was the lone assassin in Kennedy's death?"

No mate. I know who had it done and why. That is irrelevant. Your breathless whining is both ridiculous and tedious.

The germans once ask the Swiss what their milita of 500,000 would do if 1 million german soldiers invaded.

The swiss replied...

We'll shoot twice and go home.

Now consider that there are over 100 million gun owners in the United States.

How many times do you suppose we'll have to shoot son?

Blogger JartStar December 09, 2013 4:43 PM  

If 2008 was the start of the new Great Depression then we are in 1935 and I suppose the next major war will start in about 4-5 years.

Anonymous dh December 09, 2013 4:46 PM  

Uncommon. The Great Depression represented a collapse from 287% credit/GDP to 140%. We recently peaked at 375% of credit/GDP. I hope we only see a 30 percent collapse. I don't think you understand how unusual the current economy is. This is the only time we've ever had interest rates this low, and the only time they've been held flat, since 1913.

No, I guess not. We'll see then.

Anonymous Judge Dredd December 09, 2013 4:48 PM  

Governments that oppose the Will of the People do NOT LAST LONG! The question they should be asking is HOW VIOLENT WILL IT GET and WILL THEY ESCAPE!
The answer is EXTREMELY and NO.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 4:53 PM  

Nate, the gun owners have to stand up. Just owning a gun and talking big at the sport's bar doesn't get it done.

Kind of like most people who comment everywhere, they are all talk and when push comes to shove they get down on their knees. I see it all the time.

I don't get on my knees so I am trouble. I am used to standing alone.

Like I said, one good false flag and the USG turns the country on the gun owners and demands action, and 90% of the people will comply. Very much like the demonization of Jews by Hitler, same thing different decade.

Gun owning Christians are the problem. They are holding back prosperity. I hear it, read it, and see it all the time.

It didn't take long for Americans to demand the wholesale slaughter of brown people, and 911 was without a doubt done with the blessing of the elites.

This isn't Romper Room.


Anonymous Edjamacator December 09, 2013 4:58 PM  

You might as reasonably ask what happens if American is invaded by leprechauns who start mass-raping Hispanics.

I think SyFy may just have an idea for a new movie here.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother December 09, 2013 5:06 PM  

Rapelechauns! In the proud tradition of Mansquito and Sharktopus!

Anonymous Will Best December 09, 2013 5:06 PM  

There are plenty of ways to create a lot of self deportation. I think the easiest way would be to low-jack anybody on need based wealth transfers. We should be keeping track of those people anyway.

Blogger Reg Cheeseman December 09, 2013 5:07 PM  

A little fact checking might be an idea. She is not a high profile UKIP politician because UKIP only has one of those. Nigel Farage, the leader, is the spokesman on everything because everyone else is an unpredictable small time local politician. This is only to be expected in a party with no MPs and less than 1% of local government offices.

Victoria Ayling is a part-time local government councillor. Like Christopher Monckton, she claims to have been a policy advisor to the Prime Minister but nobody remembers her.

She does not speak for most Britons. She speaks for a fringe party which, although it has its supporters on among the urban underclass, nobody votes for in elections.

The Daily Mail - a pro-Cameron tabloid - runs stories like this as damage limitation. Cameron did not win a majority in the last election and stands to lose votes on the left and the right. UKIP are not a mainstream party but might bleed away enough support on the fringes of the Conservative party to bring them down.

These are inconvenient truths but there they stand.

Anonymous DonReynolds December 09, 2013 5:09 PM  

James Dixon......"If I were a betting person, I'd make a different guess, Don. I'd guess the US abandons the concept of borrowing money and simply goes back to printing it in house.
Inflation will take off almost immediately, of course, but you know how little that matters to our politicians."

I used to believe that too, James. Mainly because I know how spineless the political class is today and how much they had rather just kick the can once again, rather than deal with the issues.

But I decided against the print-our-way-out-of-this as a possible outcome because any inflationary pressure at all will irresistably be felt in interest rates. Inflationary expectation is a key ingredient in interest rates and it is what keeps interest rates in trying to think in terms of real dollars instead of nominal dollars. If there is any inflationary expectation, interest rates will rise (even a small amount), bond prices will fall and the Federal budget is busted wide open. How much of current Federal spending can be devoted to debt service on the national debt without requiring "massive" budget cuts. (Hey.....they nearly choked to death on the sequester cuts, and that was nearly nothing.)

I believe the watchword at the Federal government these days is TIME and what can they do to buy more TIME. They will make any deal, no matter how rotten or how unpopular, to buy more TIME.

Reminds me of Napoleon's instructions to his generals:

"Ask me for anything but time."

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 5:11 PM  

"Nate, the gun owners have to stand up. Just owning a gun and talking big at the sport's bar doesn't get it done. "

1) This is off topic.

2) Its math son. Lets say you're right and 95% of all gun owners lay down. Well whoops... there is an army of 5 million well armed people out there. In short... the government wouldn't stand a chance in hell. Even if it wasn't bankrupt... which it is.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother December 09, 2013 5:14 PM  

Or maybe even 97%

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 5:18 PM  

Nate, sorry I seem off-topic but demonization of a % of the current population will be tremendously more successful if another 50 million minorities are brought in who believe the gun toting Christians are the same people who wear white robes and drag black men behind pickups on weekends. I live in deep South Texas and we process the newly legal for jobs and they burn with hate, especially when in groups. They despise whitey, and that is new in my opinion. Read some liberal blogs and that is all you see, ad infinitum.

As far as the math, I never said they would succeed. You ran with that. What I said is they will create a situation that turns the Baptist Preacher into a criminal, and if he doesn't turn his gun in than he will be taken by deadly force and the military will be used for that purpose.

I live in Texas and everyone I know has 50 guns and talks big but a majority of them are also trying to sign up for Obamacare because they don't want to break the law...

These are the people who are going to stand up to the military?



Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 5:25 PM  

Nate, look at the "independent, rugged people of Australia". They turned their guns in and grabbed their ankles and have been taking it ever since. Those that stand up are "hunted down like dogs"...

We are watering down our heritage letting all of these immigrants in here. There is more going on than lowering the pay scale due to the over supply of warm bodies. It is much more insidious than that.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 09, 2013 5:26 PM  

Like I said, one good false flag and the USG turns the country on the gun owners and demands action, and 90% of the people will comply.

You numbskull - have you noticed that support for anti-gun legislation keeps going down after these operations (false flag or not)? The most popular response to school shootings is "arm the teachers." Frankly, school shootings do more to fuel support for homeschooling than gun control. And social unrest leads to more nationalism and less multiculturalism. You think TPTB are well-positioned to ride a wave of nationalist anger to power? Fuck no, they're more likely to be hanged en masse as traitors.

They're not creating problems because they plan to benefit from problems. They're creating problems because they're trying to implement a philosophy that doesn't work. The Rich and Powerful have the most to lose and the least to gain from social instability and chaos.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 5:29 PM  

1) This isn't your blog. If you want to talk about this... there are plenty of blogs out there. Find one. Or wait until its actually on topic.

2) Australia is irrelevant to the US. Australia never had the gun culture the US had. It didn't fight for its independence. It was given it.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 5:40 PM  

Jack, again, trauma induced compliance trumps big talk at the shooting range. Look at history if you doubt me. Most of your neighbors will turn on you for a small reward or to get in good with the federales. I have been there.

911 convinced peace loving people that the killing of innocent muslims was justified, and still is to this day.

Have you heard of the firebombing of the Reichstag? The killing of Arch Duke Ferdinand? 911? The Gulf of Tonkin?

Trauma on a grand scale is always effective with 90% of the people. That is why it is used.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 5:43 PM  

Nate, I live in South Texas and it is very appropriate because mass immigration is for very evil purposes, and it is not so you can live more comfortably. It's purpose is to pile on the very people who made this country the greatest on the earth and destroy them, by overrunning them. Have you heard the term "enemy invasion?"

I didn't mean to upset you. Sorry.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 5:47 PM  

Nate, I will do better in the future. I meant no harm. You were engaging me so I thought it was OK. Won't make that mistake with you again.

Blogger JCclimber December 09, 2013 5:47 PM  

The ones who would stand up to the government don't talk big in the bars where they can be overheard. They quietly discuss it among those of like mind, among those they trust (to at least some degree).

If you're not in their circle of casual friends, you won't have any idea how many of them there really are. Even where I live, near the heart of San Francisco Bay Area liberalism, there are at least 1-3% of the population who would bear arms against the government for libertarian reasons.

And of course there are always the 8-10% of the lawless who welcome any chaos as a chance to riot, who are also present in force around here.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 5:51 PM  

THEY WILL ALL STAND UP WHEN THE SHOOTING STARTS, but they won't stand up for anything today? They allow their daughters to be turned into prostitutes and their sons skinny jean wearing women... "why I'm gonna... to the moon Alice, to the moon..."

Hmmmm...

Anonymous Spychiatrist December 09, 2013 5:56 PM  

"The Rich and Powerful have the most to lose and the least to gain from social instability and chaos."

Are you kidding me? The most to lose?

These people own two-three houses and have their money in off-shore accounts, and live insular lives away from the DIEversity and they have the most to lose. What planet are you from?

Anonymous Jack Amok December 09, 2013 5:58 PM  

Have you heard of the firebombing of the Reichstag? The killing of Arch Duke Ferdinand? 911? The Gulf of Tonkin?

Archduke Ferdinand? You mean the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne who actually sort of wanted to give the Serbs a better deal and was shot by a penny-ante mook named Princip who was possibly unknowingly working for Serbian Intelligence and was part of a plot to kill Ferdinand that went ary when a bomb tossed by one of his conspirators missed the car and wounded a bunch of innocent people and then when Ferdinand insisted on visiting the wounded in the hospital his car broke down outside a sandwich shop that Princip had gone to for lunch after the plot failed and when he walked outside to his surprise there was the Archduke so Princep shot him (and his wife Sofia, which Princip said he regretted) and then Austria-Hungary made a bunch of demands of Serbia and Russia had a treaty with Serbia to defend them and the Kaiser's Germany had a treaty with Austria-Hungary to defend them and France had a treaty with Russia and England didn't have a treaty with anybody but got nervous when Germany invaded Belgium as part of defending themselves against Russian mobilization and five years later millions were dead and none of the leaders who had been in power when the war started were still in power when it ended, except for Woodrow Wilson who's party lost the next presidential election when the other party promised a "return to normalcy" and pretty much nothing in Europe was quite the same afterwards?

You mean that Archduke Ferdinand?

No, never heard of him.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 09, 2013 6:00 PM  

These people own two-three houses and have their money in off-shore accounts, and live insular lives away from the DIEversity and they have the most to lose. What planet are you from?

The one where people with nice houses are better off if their houses don't get burned to the ground by an angry mob. Which planet are you from?

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 December 09, 2013 6:06 PM  

Jack Amok:
Your 5:58pm comment was worth the price of admission right there.
Bravo.

Anonymous DonReynolds December 09, 2013 6:15 PM  

Jack Amok......"You mean that Archduke Ferdinand?
No, never heard of him."

Of course, it was his own fault. He had a bad habit of having himself sewn into his uniforms so when he was shot they could not get his uniform off to stop the bleeding. The would itself was not very serious, but difficult to treat and the delay cost him his life. Obviously, his fault.....and he died.

Blogger Dave Freer December 09, 2013 6:32 PM  

Hmm. I've reached a similar conclusion about immigrants and multiculturalism. The tide has well turned there. However, on a personal and pragmatic note: I am a migrant, (as - at the moment anyway - you are Vox) and I am one with no country to return to, and, as a mongrel of several racial and cultural strains (once again Vox as you are) I have no particular group with a home to return to. I say this because even though I've largely identified with one group, I am aware that when the 'purity' police have got going in the past, self-identifying with a group has not been enough, and half/quarter/trace breeds have been regarded as traitors by both sides. Therefore taking steps to avoid getting bunged onto plane with various undesirables (and some of them are, by anyone's standards) seems common sense. It's why I regard multiculturalism as stupidity, and 1)Chose a culture I could live with and in without being too obvious or unable to adapt, that I had a lot in common with, 2) Done our level best to integrate, fit in, make a lot of local friends rather than mixing with other migrants, avoiding the 'we do it better back in' because I'm here because that place and society are a slow ongoing train wreck. So Vox, how about some advice - either as comment or possibly if you have the opportunity a post on what steps you see as wise to surviving economic downturn and the inevitable bunching of the national herds in various countries?

Anonymous Stg58/AnimalAnimal Mother December 09, 2013 6:37 PM  

You can have houses all over the world, money in every banking haven and assets everywhere but if you are stuck in your Central Park West Penthouse with the Free Stuff Army howling for that high class pussy of your wives and daughters at street level, guess what?

*Nota Bene - your private helicopter was downed by MANPADS smuggled out of Libya.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 6:43 PM  

"I didn't mean to upset you. Sorry."

Clearly... you're new here.

Look son has it occured to you that maybe the reason you're getting poo poo'd is that we have had the conversations 3000 times already?

Ya know about once every few new guy comes along and tells us all how bad everything is and how no one is really gonna stand up and fight for anything except him... and how if we were all serious we would've been shooting already.

***yawn***

You're not upsetting anyone son. You're boring us.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 09, 2013 6:45 PM  

Of course, it was his own fault.

Plus nobody really liked him all that much (well, I think the Kaiser did, but nobody in the Viennese Court), and that Sophie he was married to, practically a peasant, being a mere Countess and not part of a reigning house. Even so, their children didn't deserve being deported to Dachau for by the Nazis just because their eldest son opposed the Anschluss.

But still never heard of him, and clearly the Rich and Powerful don't have anything to fear from chaos, war ,and instability. They always come out on top.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother December 09, 2013 6:53 PM  

OT: Ladies love killers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2521046/George-Zimmermans-girlfriend-wants-charges-DROPPED.html

Blogger Crude December 09, 2013 7:01 PM  

You might as reasonably ask what happens if American is invaded by leprechauns who start mass-raping Hispanics.

Sounds like a good pink sci-fi plot.

Anonymous damntull December 09, 2013 7:09 PM  

Crude, where were you when we were discussing omniscience on the "The slumberer stirs" post? Could have used your help correcting the heresy of Vox and others regarding whether or not God is mutable, and whether or not God is omniscient or merely "voliscient."

Anonymous GG December 09, 2013 7:23 PM  

"Ya know about once every few new guy comes along and tells us all how bad everything is and how no one is really gonna stand up and fight for anything except him..."

I have no proof to offer but I am certain the US will not descend into complete violence and chaos. God blessed America and contrary to what we may deserve, His favor has not been revoked. Also, those the most invested in our current politics are unlikely to riot on account of the fact that they are well off, older, anti-gun, and cowardly. They play a mean game, but only when they're hiding behind a keyboard or attacking somebody who can't fight back.

Minorities, Hispanics, are all too busy killing their own selves to organize into an angry mob, at least in the US. Also, the current regime has given them nothing to risk putting their lives on the line for. We saw this with the Occupy protesters, a lily white group of affluent children who could hardly come out their rape tents long enough to engage a genuine immigrant to their cause.

Anonymous p-dawg December 09, 2013 7:32 PM  

@dh:

The worst economic time in our history was during WWII. That's why the deportations happened then instead of earlier. I know you've been educated to believe the Great Depression was worse, but how much rationing happened during the GD? None. How about WWII? Oh, right. Lots. A lot of the country's money was overseas, and at home things were very, very tight. Thus, deportation. During the GD, consumption of things like milk and butter and eggs still went up every year - not so during 1942-1946.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 7:37 PM  

I never advocated violence as some have inferred.

I will put Nate and a few others down for "I will do something when the shooting starts".

Check.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 7:42 PM  

"I will put Nate and a few others down for "I will do something when the shooting starts".

What makes you think we give a rats ass what you put us down for? many of us have been planning and preparing for this for more than a decade.

Anonymous cheddarman December 09, 2013 7:44 PM  

Dave Freer, Not that i speak for Vox, but a lot of people here could give you this advice

Start on a plan to become resilient
move out of the city
get some land
join a church
buil a circle of friends among the locals that you can trust
learn practical skills such as gun smithing and bullet making, where you could trade your stuff for other goods and services

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 7:45 PM  

In a herd, the red cows stand with the red cows and the black cows stand with the black cows. The lone brahma will be an outcast, unless he is the bull, El Jeffe, then they all bow down.

This is true and I have seen it my whole life..

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 7:46 PM  

Nate, that is all you had to say.

Talking to you is like talking to my mother-in-law.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 8:12 PM  

"Talking to you is like talking to my mother-in-law."

Maybe one of the reasons you are so comfortable standing alone is that folks don't like standing next to assholes?

Maybe its you chief.

Shooting your mouth off like you're the only one with all the answers is no way to endear yourself to anyone.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 8:16 PM  

Yes sir.

You have a good night and may God bless you and your family.

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2013 8:26 PM  

> ...and may God bless you and your family.

He already has, Tiny. He already has.

Blogger James Worrad December 09, 2013 8:27 PM  

The comments on The Daily Mail were overwhelmingly anti-immigrant? Really?

I see I'm going to have to entirely re-think my world view now...

Blogger James Worrad December 09, 2013 8:27 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother December 09, 2013 8:34 PM  

Ah, Tiny Tim. So young and Ilky. Like a baby rattler. We all like to get real here at the DI.

Anonymous Stilicho December 09, 2013 8:35 PM  


The GOVERNMENT is moving towards more immigration, amnesty, and all that. It maybe 50/50 odds that we get MORE immigration. That's without even discussing the fact that there has been no backslide at all, and absolutely no legal movement towards closing the borders, mass deportation, or anything else like it.

Public opinion, I believe, is fairly firmly set against changing anything. But I haven't really followed that end of whats going on (i.e., what people say they want).


Thanks for clarifying your position. I think the others have explained this, but we are not talking about what the current administration would like to do vis a vis immigration, but rather what history shows the broad reaction of the people is to such an invasion during difficult times. Now, this or another administration may try to circumvent such a broad, deeply popular movement, but its success would likely be shallow and short-lived.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 8:37 PM  

Thank you James Dixon. I appreciate the enlightenment.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 8:42 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother, taunt the baby rattler and he will bite, and bite much worse than his father and mother oh yes indeed.

He holds no poison back as he has no control nor does he want any...

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother December 09, 2013 8:44 PM  

Careful, Tiny Tim, or we will-a taunt you a second time.

Anonymous Harsh December 09, 2013 8:47 PM  

Thank you James Dixon. I appreciate the enlightenment.

Snarky sarcasm doesn't go down real well here. Just FYI.

Blogger tz December 09, 2013 8:49 PM  

We need to find a small country that everyone who wants to go galt can invade and transform into a free country, nativess too whether they want or not. How many Lakota are there and are there any nuke silos on the land?

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 8:53 PM  

You are a sensitive crowd indeed.

James Dixon, are you sitting down?

I meant it. I actually meant it.

Are you, Stg58/Animal Mother, Nate and others sitting together sharing a laptop?

Really, you guys need to chill.

Regardless, have a good one.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 8:56 PM  

Sorry James, some guy named Harsh got involved and I thought it was you. Thanks again.

Harsh, the preceding was for you.

Anonymous Harsh December 09, 2013 8:56 PM  

You are a sensitive crowd indeed.

Not at all. We just know bullshit when we smell it.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 9:05 PM  

"We need to find a small country that everyone who wants to go galt can invade and transform into a free country, nativess too whether they want or not. How many Lakota are there and are there any nuke silos on the land?"

Been on that for a while. I've about decided the attitude of the natives are not that important... apathy is best. Costa Rica is a fanstastic option. It has no military after all.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 9:07 PM  

"You are a sensitive crowd indeed."

Again... this isn't offended.

This is bored.

At least come up with a new schtick we haven't heard 100 times already. We hear enough of the "Let's You and Him fight!" It gets old.

Blogger Tiny Tim December 09, 2013 9:14 PM  

OK Nate. Sorry I invoked you. I was joking around. So serious my brother.

As far as me being boring, I read a whole lot of you posts and you could stand jazzing yours up a little as well. Jus sayin...

Blogger James Dixon December 09, 2013 9:16 PM  

> But I decided against the print-our-way-out-of-this as a possible outcome because...

You may very well be right, Don. As I said, I'd bet otherwise, but we're discussing probabilities at this point and not certainties. And it's entirely possible that events will leave those in charge with extremely limited or no options. We'll just have to wait and see.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 9:17 PM  

Lets see... "Let's You and Him Fight..." and now "I know you are but what am I?"

What's next sugartits? Ya gonna threaten to not have sex with me?

Anonymous Harsh December 09, 2013 9:23 PM  

I was joking around.

No, you were being a twat. Just so's you understand the difference.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 9:25 PM  

Harsh... living up to his moniker.

Blogger Dave Freer December 09, 2013 9:27 PM  

Cheddarman

'Start on a plan to become resilient' - if you mean self-sufficient, I am literally down to all that is left to do is the milk-cow (We have a cattle disease import restriction that makes importing them very expensive and hard, so we're 'training' a calf.) We're getting our first cereal crop too and produce more potatoes that even the pig can eat.

'move out of the city' - I live on an island (Flinders Island), pop 700, 10 hours by ferry from the nearest town.

'get some land' - the deal is in the works and I should have a small farm again (and without debt), but at 0.5 people per square km, there isn't a crowd. If things crash economically land will be in excess to labor to work it here.

join a church - bit late. I am on the parish council, and it was our first step.

build a circle of friends among the locals that you can trust. - I have more friends here than I ever did back in the old country - besides taking part in every volunteer/social activity that we can, and my wife is the Doctor's receptionist. She knows everyone, and is deputy chair of the local CWA.

learn practical skills such as gun smithing and bullet making, where you could trade your stuff for other goods and services - I reload, make nets, make long-lines, and dive, shoot and fish at the commercial level of proficiency, I butcher, make and smoke bacon and ham and salami, and provide meat, fish, shellfish, game and veg to a lot of friends. We already have a 'trading' system of services and food. This isn't what I am really asking about. There is little chance of our local community rejecting us, I hope - we've worked damned hard to integrate and be needed, and not call the shots. But there is a chance of the problem at government level - a long way from here. So: I pay taxes, I claim no benefits, and I keep my nose clean as possible. More than that, I don't know, but was hoping Vox would. I don't always agree with him, but his thoughts are always worth weighing.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 9:36 PM  

Freer,
I wouldn't worry about it. Your local community may not view as a local... but it will still see you as in-group and therefore trusted.

I wouldn't worry to much about the government. It won't have the money to enforce its will for very long anyway.

OpenID luckymarty December 09, 2013 9:41 PM  

"No nation can survive an immigrant population, including second and third generations, of more than five percent without seeing its legal and cultural traditions significantly transformed."

I doubt the U.S. has *ever* been below 5% immigrant, if you go back two generations. Certainly it has not been since the census started asking the question in 1850, at which time the population was 9.7% foreign-born. It went up into the low teens from there and stayed there until the 20th century; the absolute low point was 4.7% in 1970 -- which means it was a lot higher than that if you include the 2nd- and 3rd-generation immigrants.

Is the argument that the U.S. hasn't achieved legal or customary stability since at least 1850 (a case could be made), or am I missing something?

Anonymous cecilhenry December 09, 2013 9:43 PM  

Why are people so anti-white?? T

AFRICA FOR THE AFRICANS, ASIA FOR THE ASIANS, WHITE COUNTRIES FOR EVERYBODY??

At what point would anti-whites allow whites such as this the right to protect their ethnic interests, to not be displaced in their country and have their society destroyed-- all just so they can look good for the camera. Moral grandstanding and PC prudery aside, one would not dare argue for the converse--that would be called Genocide.

Anti-whites expect an entire race to disappear from the face of the earth without even mentioning, not even whispering about it.

Nobody's flooding Africa with Non-Africans and giving them free health care, affirmative action and special privileges.

Only White Countries are doing it, only White children are affected, and only White politicians are allowing it.

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.

Anonymous Harsh December 09, 2013 9:51 PM  

We need to find a small country that everyone who wants to go galt can invade and transform into a free country, nativess too whether they want or not.

I've thought about this before. Can you imagine the world reaction to a bunch of individualists starting their own country in this day and age? The histrionics would move tectonic plates.

Blogger Nate December 09, 2013 9:57 PM  

"I've thought about this before. Can you imagine the world reaction to a bunch of individualists starting their own country in this day and age? The histrionics would move tectonic plates."

Oh sure there'd be a lot of angry talk but nothing would come of it.

Anonymous Harsh December 09, 2013 10:11 PM  

Oh sure there'd be a lot of angry talk but nothing would come of it.

Oh, I don't know about that, Nate. They might form a committee to investigate the situation and write a report.

Anonymous DonReynolds December 10, 2013 2:58 AM  

We need to find a small country that everyone who wants to go galt can invade and transform into a free country, nativess too whether they want or not.

Harsh....."I've thought about this before. Can you imagine the world reaction to a bunch of individualists starting their own country in this day and age? The histrionics would move tectonic plates."

It used to be fairly commonplace for Americans to do just that. They were called fillibusters (adventurers, soldiers of fortune). My personal favorite was William Walker from Nashville, Tennessee. He did it several times. In fact, he is the only American ever elected president of a foreign country. In the end he was murdered (executed) by the British and probably explains why Commodore Vanderbilt donated a million bucks to start a college in Nashville. Walker was a terribly interesting and colorful character. Certainly worth a Google search.

Anonymous zen0 December 10, 2013 4:18 AM  

@ GG God blessed America and contrary to what we may deserve, His favor has not been revoked

Gotta link for that?

Anonymous JJ December 10, 2013 4:43 AM  

@dh "This fair enough. My view is that immigration has been growing, illegal immigration has been growing, and that there have been successively large amnesties since the mid-1960's."

Amnesty failed in the US in 2001, 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2013. Thats five times now, four under a Republican President no less. Its precisely because politicians are short-term thinkers that they cant shove it through. Theyll get voted out faster than they can say Tea Party.

Anonymous JJ December 10, 2013 4:59 AM  

@cecilhenry "Nobody's flooding Africa with Non-Africans and giving them free health care, affirmative action and special privileges."

Actually, Africa is being settled en masse by Chinese migrant labor. But the natives dont mind because 1) theyre not white and 2) theyre not only paying the respective states for the land and resources, but theyre also building infrastructure for the natives, like roads, schools, hospitals, telephone lines, etc.

Anonymous FrankNorman December 10, 2013 8:13 AM  

Not 100% on topic, but will probably make some smiles...

Knockout Game Results in Attacker Getting Beaten Up By Girl

Blogger Tiny Tim December 10, 2013 9:24 AM  

Nate and Harsh. Lower your progesterone intake. I think you are exceeding the recommended doses unless you are purposefully making the transition, then I would say it is right on schedule.

I really thought more of the two of you but you are nothing but a couple of little bitches when your skirts comes off.

May you both find happiness together. Your relationship is legal in 38 states.

Blogger Joshua Dyal December 10, 2013 3:20 PM  

Curiously, this disconnect between politicians and "the folks" is prevalent in the Western world, not just in the UK. Or, maybe that's not really curious after all.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/december_2013/60_think_u_s_not_aggressive_enough_in_deporting_illegal_immigrants

Blogger Joshua_D December 10, 2013 3:24 PM  

It seems most Americans at least want to send the illegal lot back

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