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Friday, December 27, 2013

Suboptimal rhetoric

In which America is less than entirely astonished to learn that Pajama Boy is a self-described gay-loving "liberal f---" with no morals, a predilection for attacking others, and a superiority complex:
Ethan Krupp, the little man who played “Pajama Boy” in a widely mocked Obamacare ad, once characterized himself as a “liberal f---.”

Krupp, an Organizing for Action (OFA) content writer who became the face of progressive America while wearing a onesie pajama suit, also remarked that gays “are all liberal f----” and criticized a “conservative gay prick” on his now-deleted WordPress blog, entitled “Not Being Creative.”

“I am a Liberal F---,” Krupp wrote in one post. “A Liberal F--- is not a Democrat, but rather someone who combines political data and theory, extreme leftist views and sarcasm to win any argument while make the opponents feel terrible about themselves. I won every argument but one.”
Sure you did, Pajama Boy. Sure you did. Notice that his approach is entirely rhetorical. The reference to sarcasm and feelings make it clear that he's not even remotely interested in proper dialectic per se. One hallmark of this sort of individual is that he always thinks he wins an argument because his combination of self-delusion and total lack of regard for objective truth means that he can easily self-define the result of ANY argument as a win.

I seem to recall someone else describing a similarly "successful" rhetorical approach to debate:

"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.

"Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.


"I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying.


"Gradually I began to hate them."


If the consequences of your self-declared victorious approach to intellectual disputation is to make formerly indifferent people hate and despise you, then perhaps it is time to consider an entirely different rhetorical approach.

Labels: ,

117 Comments:

Anonymous Giraffe December 27, 2013 1:11 PM  

When you’re young, intelligent, and driven you have an enormous number of opportunities available to you. What better definition of a man is there than he who throws aside the opportunities for greater financial gain in the short-term in order to embrace advancing his beliefs.

So he DOES live in his mom's basement.

Anonymous Too-Soon-ami December 27, 2013 1:28 PM  

“I am a Liberal F---,” Krupp wrote

Some dashes are missing. There are six letters in "faggot".

Anonymous Difster December 27, 2013 1:31 PM  

Who would you rather have watching your back? Pajamaboy or Phil Robertson? Mmmm tough choice.

Anonymous dh December 27, 2013 1:34 PM  

then perhaps it is time to consider an entirely different rhetorical approach.

Depends on the goal...

Anonymous JartStar December 27, 2013 1:42 PM  

“We have no morals, and we will attack you."

Because the person he's attacking is bad.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter December 27, 2013 1:43 PM  

No fair quoting Adolf Hitler without warning us.

Anonymous Porky December 27, 2013 1:44 PM  

Depends on the goal...

Oh, do tell us all about it, dh.

FUDH.



Anonymous VD December 27, 2013 1:46 PM  

No fair quoting Adolf Hitler without warning us.

Wait, you recognized an unattributed quote? What are you, some kind of Mein Kampf-quoting Nazi?

Anonymous jack December 27, 2013 1:49 PM  

Difster December 27, 2013 1:31 PM

Who would you rather have watching your back? Pajamaboy or Phil Robertson? Mmmm tough choice

I suspect that if Phil ran into pamamaboy out in the swamps his first thought would be 'How in Heaven's name did THIS get into my swamp?' second thought would probably be along the lines of 'Oh, well, just let the gators get him; they need a meal now and again, and shells cost money'

Anonymous TWS December 27, 2013 1:49 PM  

Is Mein Kampf worth reading?

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter December 27, 2013 1:53 PM  

"Wait, you recognized an unattributed quote? What are you, some kind of Mein Kampf-quoting Nazi?"

Well, I checked with Google to be sure. I guess that makes me an anti-Nazi.

Anonymous Noah B. December 27, 2013 2:01 PM  

Are you trying to get double-banned from SFWA?

Anonymous fish December 27, 2013 2:09 PM  

Are you trying to get double-banned from SFWA?

Is that even possible....?

Blogger Nate December 27, 2013 2:09 PM  

"Wait, you recognized an unattributed quote? What are you, some kind of Mein Kampf-quoting Nazi?"

You posted this whole thing just to use that line didn't you...

Anonymous Brother Thomas December 27, 2013 2:10 PM  

"What better definition of a man is there than he who throws aside the opportunities for greater financial gain in the short-term in order to embrace advancing his beliefs."


Hmm, that sounds eerily like Hitler too. Eric Hoffer pegged people like this in his book "True Believer". It's a must read for anyone seeking to understand the political fanatic.

Anonymous Brother Thomas December 27, 2013 2:13 PM  

fish December 27, 2013 2:09 PM Are you trying to get double-banned from SFWA?

Is that even possible....?


For Vox Day?... yes, it is possible... it is even probable.

Anonymous DrTorch December 27, 2013 2:20 PM  

I heard the one argument he lost was to McR. Because philosophy of language. And bachelor's degree.

Krupp felt terrible about himself.

McR responded, "I owe you a blow job."

Anonymous fish December 27, 2013 2:24 PM  

For Vox Day?... yes, it is possible... it is even probable.

I eagerly await news of this monumental achievement!

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother December 27, 2013 2:32 PM  

No fair quoting Adolf Hitler without warning us.

Wait, you recognized an unattributed quote? What are you, some kind of Mein Kampf-quoting Nazi?


ooohhh that's gotta hurt.

Anonymous Miserman December 27, 2013 2:36 PM  

Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again.

Being an intellectual "greased pig" is one of the most aggravating experiences in debate. Liberals do it on purpose, deliberately throwing non-concrete suggestions that move any argument away from any discernable topic. The net result is stagnation and an end of argument through sheer empty nullification. They neither seek to win the argument nor lose the argument. Rather they seek to promote an atmosphere of futility of thought so if they cannot win, at least their opponent cannot win either.

Damned irritating.

Anonymous Gx1080 December 27, 2013 2:47 PM  

Saying something so stupid that leaves people speechless is not "winning an argument". And I thought that by now, hating hipsters was something natural.

Anonymous Pablo December 27, 2013 2:48 PM  

Fish:
Are you trying to get double-banned from SFWA?

Is that even possible....?

Only Bill Brasski has been able to manage it so far, and he did it by making Hitler's exhumed body his "Plus One" at a White House corespondents' dinner.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother December 27, 2013 2:51 PM  

Bill Brasski!

Bill Brasski once gave a grizzly bear a prostate exam! With his penis!

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2013 2:53 PM  

fish December 27, 2013 2:09 PM
Is that even possible....?



dude, when double secret probation is possible, ANYTHING is possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0cF2piwjYQ

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 27, 2013 2:53 PM  

Fish:
Are you trying to get double-banned from SFWA?

Is that even possible....?


Double SECRET banned!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVXEQ8hjyGI

Anonymous VD December 27, 2013 2:55 PM  

Well, I checked with Google to be sure.

A likely story. Nazi.

Anonymous TWS December 27, 2013 2:55 PM  

I never read Mein Kampf, but I used 'My Struggle' as the title of a college paper. Nobody noticed or if they did no one commented.

Anonymous VD December 27, 2013 2:58 PM  

Being an intellectual "greased pig" is one of the most aggravating experiences in debate. Liberals do it on purpose, deliberately throwing non-concrete suggestions that move any argument away from any discernable topic.

This is why liberals like PZ and McRapey shun blog debates. They are pinned down by the written medium. Unsurprisingly, the most effective tactic is the one Socrates developed for use against sophists. Interrogate them methodically and they are ruined.

Anonymous Noah B. December 27, 2013 2:59 PM  

Makes sense to me -- Schmidt is a German name.

Anonymous Luke December 27, 2013 3:06 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother December 27, 2013 2:51 PM

"Bill Brasski!

Bill Brasski once gave a grizzly bear a prostate exam! With his penis!"


Reminds me of the one about how you tell if a doctor is from San Francisco...

When he gives you a prostate exam, his hands are on your shoulders.

(Could be changed to "an award-winning doctor approved by Obamacare".)

Anonymous Giraffe December 27, 2013 3:08 PM  

VD quotes Hitler from a sympathetic point of view and then calls a commenter a Nazi. I think that's how pajama boi would do it.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 27, 2013 3:12 PM  

Are you trying to get double-banned from SFWA?

Dear Mr. Beale,

We are pleased to inform you that your 2013 ban from the SFWA has been lifted!

However, please be advised that your 2014 ban remains in place, and your 2015 ban is still under consideration before the BadThinkFeelBad committee. Your 2016 ban will be drafted next week by the Committee for Hissing at Indie Publishers.

Sincerely,
Wascally Wabbitt

Blogger JCclimber December 27, 2013 3:20 PM  

Strange that I immediately recognized that quote. Since I never managed to read the English translation of Mein Kampf, I'm trying to remember where I read that quote, around 30 years ago.

I knew the liberals were going to begin losing it through arrogance, when Obama's team released a BLATANTLY OBVIOUS birth certificate forgery without blushing.

For years now they have portrayed themselves and their methods as superior using Hollywood programming. The pendulum is swinging back again....which is too bad, because the pendulum always swings too far the other direction...

Anonymous Joe Doakes December 27, 2013 3:21 PM  

Wait - you're calling him out for being a Liberal F--- who has no morals, is intolerant and an intellectual vapour?

Well geez, Vox, cut the guy some slack, he went to UW-Madison. Might was well have been Macalaster. Visualizing World Peace is all he's good for.

Anonymous YIH December 27, 2013 3:24 PM  

Since we're all going Reductio ad Hitlerum I came across this; The Wall Street trading hand signal for ''Deutsche Bank''

Blogger JCclimber December 27, 2013 3:24 PM  

And Roissy spotted this F----- so rapidly on the Chateau.

Jack, why would someone think that Phil Robertson would want to shoot this phony? Do you think that there is some aspect of genuine Christianity that requires you to shoot people like this?

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2013 3:26 PM  

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 27, 2013 2:53 PM
Double SECRET banned!



*snort*

beaten like a red headed step child.

by less than 60 seconds.

Anonymous Noah B. December 27, 2013 3:29 PM  

Hey wait a minute -- is Pajama Boy jewish?

Anonymous Robert in Arabia December 27, 2013 3:32 PM  

Much to admire in the writings and speeches of the last defender of the men of the west who died in 1945

Anonymous VD December 27, 2013 3:34 PM  

VD quotes Hitler from a sympathetic point of view and then calls a commenter a Nazi.

What part of the rhetorical tactics he criticizes do you wish to defend? Pretending not to know what the other individual is talking about or pretending that the previous debate never happened? Do you also refuse to eat vegetables because Hitler was a vegetarian?

As for the commenter, he clearly recognized an obscure and unidentified passage from a little-read book. I think it is safe to assume he is a Nazi and a terrorist.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter December 27, 2013 3:35 PM  

Pretty soon they will be calling Putin a NAZI:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/27/New-year-decadent-Americans

Anonymous DoubleMindedMan December 27, 2013 3:38 PM  

He deleted his blog, but its still there in the Way Back machine. Unfortunately, its only cache is from August 13th, 2013

https://web.archive.org/web/20130813081741/http://notbeingcreative.wordpress.com

It does have his Liberal Fuck post

"I am a Liberal Fuck.

A Liberal Fuck is not a Democrat, but instead someone who combines political data and theory, extreme leftist views and sarcasm to win any argument while make the opponents feel terrible about themselves. "

Anonymous DoubleMindedMan December 27, 2013 3:39 PM  

He deleted his blog, but its still there in the Way Back machine. Unfortunately, its only cache is from August 13th, 2013

NotBeingCreative.wordpress.com

It does have his Liberal Fuck post

"I am a Liberal Fuck.

A Liberal Fuck is not a Democrat, but instead someone who combines political data and theory, extreme leftist views and sarcasm to win any argument while make the opponents feel terrible about themselves. "

Anonymous Giraffe December 27, 2013 3:39 PM  

As for the commenter, he clearly recognized an obscure and unidentified passage from a little-read book. I think it is safe to assume he is a Nazi and a terrorist.

Wait, where does the terrorist part come from? This is hard to keep up with.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter December 27, 2013 3:41 PM  

"Wait, where does the terrorist part come from? This is hard to keep up with."

Anyone who would dare to question their label is clearly a terrorist.

Anonymous Noah B. December 27, 2013 3:42 PM  

"Wait, where does the terrorist part come from? This is hard to keep up with."

He's just trying to stay ahead of the game. Now that calling one a racist is losing its sting, calling us terrorists is the obvious next step. Best to get used to it now rather than being surprised by it later.

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 27, 2013 3:45 PM  

beaten like a red headed step child.

by less than 60 seconds.


No fair! You changed the outcome by measuring it!

(All right, we'll call it a draw!)

Anonymous Giraffe December 27, 2013 3:47 PM  

What part of the rhetorical tactics he criticizes do you wish to defend? Pretending not to know what the other individual is talking about or pretending that the previous debate never happened? Do you also refuse to eat vegetables because Hitler was a vegetarian?

I suppose I better follow the rules.

none, neither, and I don't eat vegetables because I don't like them. My food shits on your food.

Blogger JartStar December 27, 2013 3:57 PM  

When Vox starts calling people losers you know he's jumped the progressive shark.

Anonymous fish December 27, 2013 3:58 PM  

Dear Mr. Beale,

We are pleased to inform you that your 2013 ban from the SFWA has been lifted!

However, please be advised that your 2014 ban remains in place, and your 2015 ban is still under consideration before the BadThinkFeelBad committee. Your 2016 ban will be drafted next week by the Committee for Hissing at Indie Publishers.

Sincerely,
Wascally Wabbitt


Sequential bans are double bans??

Anonymous VD December 27, 2013 4:01 PM  

none, neither

So, if you are not willing to condemn what he defends, you are sympathizing with Hitler. And, obviously, a terrorist and anti-semite.

Anonymous VD December 27, 2013 4:04 PM  

When Vox starts calling people losers you know he's jumped the progressive shark.

Shut up, loser. Why don't you draw a picture of yourself losing and crying. Oh, that's right, you can't, because you can't draw anything but stick figures. Loser.

Anonymous Giraffe December 27, 2013 4:11 PM  

So, if you are not willing to condemn what he defends, you are sympathizing with Hitler. And, obviously, a terrorist and anti-semite.

Damn, you are good at this.

So, what part of the rhetorical tactics he criticizes do you wish to defend?

Anonymous VD December 27, 2013 4:15 PM  

So, what part of the rhetorical tactics he criticizes do you wish to defend?

None of them. I completely agree with those valid criticisms of those particular rhetorical tactics. I was merely demonstrating the absurdity of claiming that I was quoting "Hitler from a sympathetic point of view". I also agree with various things Lenin, Mao, and Stalin wrote, but I regard none of them sympathetically.

Anonymous Ferd December 27, 2013 4:18 PM  

"He's just trying to stay ahead of the game. Now that calling one a racist is losing its sting, calling us terrorists is the obvious next step. Best to get used to it now rather than being surprised by it later."

Nope! The next step in effective name-calling is "Poo-poo pants!" Worked for my sisters!

Anonymous fish December 27, 2013 4:19 PM  

When Vox starts calling people losers you know he's jumped the progressive shark.

Shut up, loser. Why don't you draw a picture of yourself losing and crying. Oh, that's right, you can't, because you can't draw anything but stick figures. Loser.

Reductio ad Ron Burgundium?

Anonymous Noah B. December 27, 2013 4:22 PM  

Or as the Huffington Post might write:

Vox Day also "...agree[s] with...Lenin, Mao, and Stalin [and]...regard[s]...them sympathetically."

Anonymous Scintan December 27, 2013 4:26 PM  

Reductio ad Ron Burgundium?

Are you saying that Hitler was a whale's vagina?

Blogger JCclimber December 27, 2013 4:26 PM  

Ya know what really bugs me about reading Hitler and watching correctly translated videos of his speeches? That so much of what he spoke and wrote actually makes sense.

What he did with it was utterly evil, and I couldn't understand why the civilized German population went along with him, because to my understanding, national pride wouldn't be enough to swallow his prescription. But seeing the modern world and the attraction to Putin and other strong men......I'm just glad I know that God wins in the end.

Anonymous Giraffe December 27, 2013 4:27 PM  

None of them. I completely agree with those valid criticisms of those particular rhetorical tactics.

Nazi!!

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2013 4:28 PM  

Giraffe December 27, 2013 3:39 PM
Wait, where does the terrorist part come from?



clearly, if he's a Hitler identifying NAZI, he's also a member of Golden Dawn.

QED



Giraffe December 27, 2013 3:47 PM
My food shits on your food.



real men prefer the flesh of carnivores. not that a 'giraffe' would know anything about eating meat.



VD December 27, 2013 4:04 PM
because you can't draw anything but stick figures.


also known as, Charlie Sheen winning.
http://xkcd.com/

Anonymous fish December 27, 2013 4:30 PM  

Are you saying that Hitler was a whale's vagina?

I believe the case can be made.......

Blogger JartStar December 27, 2013 4:38 PM  

Vox, your comments to me an others are so disgusting they make me physically sick. Nobody should have the right to make such vile comments to people, especially in a public forum like this.

Blogger Bogey December 27, 2013 4:39 PM  

Crap, now when I use the word "dialectic" people are going to call me a Nazi, thanks a lot Vox.

I started feeling kind of bad for adding to the Pajama boy hate, but jeebis what a little prick.

Anonymous kh123 December 27, 2013 4:50 PM  

Wear pajamas
Drink hot chocolate
Retweeting the Fire Decree and Enabling Act to friends without telling them what it is.

#creativerewordingoflegislation
protocols.com/meshuggener

Anonymous Steve December 27, 2013 4:50 PM  

Is Mein Kampf worth reading?

Was for me. I totally understood Hitler after I finished Mein Kampf. Some of the things he did can only be understood by referencing the work. Needless to say all those documentaries on the History Channel featuring Mark Potok and the other jewbois totally misrepresented the old boy.

I still don't have any love for socialism,nationalist or otherwise, but I understand Hitler's objectives and his complaints with the Germany of his day as never before. Reading Mein Kampf you will experience chilling echoes from across time and space and come to realize that all the things that have been done to America were being done to Germany in Hitler's day, and that is what set him off.

That he identified the culprits correctly cannot be doubted,for when the center of Jewish power shifted from Germany to the United States, the same process of moral and spiritual decay began over here.

I am not a Nazi and never will be, but Hitler's autobiography speaks to me on a personal level as a white man who is concerned about his people.

However, the opinions of others are the worst basis for judging a book's worthiness. Read it for yourself. The audiobook is even on youtube if you don't have the time or energy to invest in reading the book.

Anonymous VD December 27, 2013 4:51 PM  

I started feeling kind of bad for adding to the Pajama boy hate

Don't. Just don't. It's not your fault.

Anonymous Giraffe December 27, 2013 4:59 PM  

I was merely demonstrating the absurdity of claiming that I was quoting "Hitler from a sympathetic point of view".

I was just noting that you were agreeing with Hitler on one hand and calling someone a Nazi on the other. It was imprecise language on my part as I didn't realize you were a Hitler loving Nazi till later in the exchange. :)

real men prefer the flesh of carnivores. not that a 'giraffe' would know anything about eating meat.

Really? What carnivores do you eat?

Anonymous TheVillageIdiotRet December 27, 2013 5:00 PM  

Hi my name is DannyR and
I'm An Asshole

DannyR

Blogger Glen Filthie December 27, 2013 5:03 PM  

There is only one person out there that will never lose an argument: the idiot.

That seems to be the Magic Negro's power base, so the use of a liberal f**** in their propaganda ads is entirely correct.

Anonymous Noah B. December 27, 2013 5:04 PM  

"Vox, your comments to me an others are so disgusting they make me physically sick. Nobody should have the right to make such vile comments to people, especially in a public forum like this."

Don't feel bad, I can't draw anything but stick figures either.

Anonymous YIH December 27, 2013 5:07 PM  

@DoubleMindedMan:
I sat in a pizza joint, chomping on meat-heavy pizza and slamming whisky sours with gay guys on Pride Parade day in Columbus, Ohio; My gay roommate and friends loved to ironically “bro-out.” I love gays because they are all liberal fucks too.
Makes that @scalzi 'shop all the more lulzy.

Anonymous TWS December 27, 2013 5:29 PM  

@Steve - Thanks.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2013 5:31 PM  

Giraffe December 27, 2013 4:59 PM
Really? What carnivores do you eat?



the same ones Bill Brasky does.

Anonymous automatthew December 27, 2013 6:20 PM  

jcclimber: "What he did with it was utterly evil"

The next step is to investigate whether what you know about what he did is accurate.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2013 6:20 PM  

you want Vox explained? he's indistinguishable from a computer program simulating a paranoid schizophrenic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVd_y5VAxEs

Anonymous automatthew December 27, 2013 6:22 PM  

Stolfi's recent meta-biography of the man is a good place to start, Stolfi not being a genocide-revisionist.

Anonymous FP December 27, 2013 6:36 PM  

"He's just trying to stay ahead of the game. Now that calling one a racist is losing its sting, calling us terrorists is the obvious next step. Best to get used to it now rather than being surprised by it later."

Its "economic terrorist" you tea tard pajama bigot.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 27, 2013 6:47 PM  

Ya know what really bugs me about reading Hitler and watching correctly translated videos of his speeches? That so much of what he spoke and wrote actually makes sense.

Sure. Of course. That's what happens when all the "smart" and "good" people - our "betters" - treat the general populace as a bunch of yokels to be exploited and controlled, and then marginalize anyone who disagrees with their program. Everybody can see things aren't working, everybody can feel society heading down the drain, but the "enlightened" idiots in charge destroy any decent people who suggest the obvious common sense fixes that everyone can see are needed.

So they only leaders people can turn to are the ones who put themselves outside of polite society, and they are usually psychopaths. So, good job Liberal Fucks, you're going to lose in the end, but your goal seem to be making sure you lose to a Hitler instead of to a Washington.

Anonymous Rollory December 27, 2013 6:57 PM  

"Is Mein Kampf worth reading?"

What Steve said. Also, to know what the man actually said, instead of taking for granted what you are told about it by people who assure you that Barack Obama is the Lightbringer and that economic stimulus just hasn't been tried hard enough yet and that when 10 thousand black men get shot by other blacks, it is the one who gets shot by a white man that is the horrific crime.

Adolf Hitler is the chosen enemy of the current system - of Moldbug's Cathedral. They hate and fear him more than anything else that has ever existed. There's reasons for that.

Anonymous VD December 27, 2013 6:57 PM  

So the only leaders people can turn to are the ones who put themselves outside of polite society, and they are usually psychopaths.

Not only that, but look what Hitler had to endure before reaching a position of power. They ensure that only the toughest, most driven, and ruthless individuals can reach that position. Good plan.

Blogger Whiskey December 27, 2013 7:05 PM  

Hitler took power because far too many Germans believed in magic. That magically a central European power could launch a war in the West and the East and win. On two fronts. With the Eastern power having a near endless Eurasian landmass to retreat into, and a brutal, brutal Winter, and the West having the US as its ally. Magical, idiotic thinking.

One that Bismarck for all his faults never indulged in. Keeping Austria and Russia friendly and refraining from challenging Britain leaving only France as an enemy.

Hitler's dream of military conquest, "lebensraum," and blaming Jews for self-inflicted, Kaiser-derived wounds, was as bankrupt and stupid as WWI in general. But Germans went along with it because they'd rather have the fairy-tale fantasy than the mundane, simple but difficult reality. Power and good lives for the people are not based on military conquest and "glory" but hard work, industrial production, labor that is highly effective and well paid, and a balance in all things. A Straight Edge Nation, in other words.

After he seized power, Hitler's monopoly and insane use of violence meant there was no check upon him. Typical tyrant and one found in the pages of Greek and Phoenician and Roman and Carthaginian and Persian and Hellenistic history. The only difference is Hitler's power resided in an industrial nation not the Hellenistic city of Syracuse.

The ugly thing about Hitler is how guys like him pop up over, and over, and over again. Brutal tyrants who understand how to seize power but not when to stop -- Pol Pot, Abimael Guzman, Mithradates, Alexander, Caesar, Nero, Caligula, etc.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 27, 2013 7:16 PM  

Hitler took power because far too many Germans believed in magic.

No, Hitler took power because not enough European leaders (including Weimar) believed in common sense. Sure, WWI was a stupid mistake, but the Germans weren't alone in making it, but because they lost, the short-sighted leaders of the victorious nations tried to make them pay the entire cost. Germans weren't offered a "mundane, simple but difficult reality." They were offered a crap sandwich. Fairy tales were the only hope anyone was selling.

That's the whole point. When the "sane" leaders insist on forcing everyone to go along with totally unworkable projects, people will turn to insane nutbars.

Not only that, but look what Hitler had to endure before reaching a position of power. They ensure that only the toughest, most driven, and ruthless individuals can reach that position. Good plan.

While simultaneously embittering huge swaths of their own society and driving their own people to desperation. Yes, absolutely brilliant.

Anonymous Buckeyecopperhead December 27, 2013 7:47 PM  

True story. A few years back, I watched about 30 seconds of the Big Bang Theory, then asked my wife "Why do I want to punch that Sheldon guy in the face?"

In retrospect, I think I may have had a premonition, because I now understand that Sheldon = Pajamaboy. And I want to punch Pajamaboy in the face. With a shovel.

Anonymous A. Nonymous December 27, 2013 9:05 PM  

In retrospect, I think I may have had a premonition, because I now understand that Sheldon = Pajamaboy. And I want to punch Pajamaboy in the face. With a shovel.

I disagree. Pyjama Boy's entire identity is wrapped up in smug, self-conscious compliance with the right sort of ideology, as the culture-makers decree it, whereas Sheldon is so completely divorced from any sense of obligation to conform to social niceties that, as an example, it would be entirely within his established character profile for him to deliver a scathing, dead-pan put-down of feminism or homosexuality on the basis of their biological absurdity, but, sadly, the show is produced by one Chaim "Chuck Lorre" Levine, so, when pigs fly and all that sort of thing.

Anonymous Dr. Doom December 27, 2013 9:18 PM  

Sorry to be the one to break the news to you, but Libertarians with their Jewess leader is not going to effectively counteract the Jewish Internationalist Communist Conspiracy.
The Jews have an old trick whereby they create "controlled opposition" to their pogroms to mislead and misdirect their targets away from real leaders that could effectively destroy them and their plans.
The GOP led by former Trotskyites from the Soviet Union is an example of this false opposition that like the Generals at the phony Harlem Globetrotters Negro Worship Revivals are set up to lose spectacularly to the Real Jewish Team: The Communists/Progressives/Liberals.
At this point, only a Hitler could possibly save the West from the depredations of the Bolsheviks of the EU and North American Union!

Blogger LP 999/Eliza December 27, 2013 10:00 PM  

Could it be that pajamas comfort those who know they have no future?

Anonymous The other skeptic December 27, 2013 10:02 PM  

Whiskey, I think you need to remember to take your meds.

Anonymous The other skeptic December 27, 2013 10:09 PM  

This guy plays a Nazi in France.

Anonymous Big Bill December 27, 2013 10:25 PM  

Pajama Boy moved to the whitest of white cities in Wisconsin--hell, in the Midwest--because it IS white, safe, and prone to be guilt-ridden. In the last couple decades the nice white folks of Madison are starting to create ghettos filled with Chicago Section 8 trash, so they are wising up, but it is a slow (VERY slow) process.

Anonymous Noah B. December 27, 2013 10:42 PM  

In retrospect, I think I may have had a premonition, because I now understand that Sheldon = Pajamaboy. And I want to punch Pajamaboy in the face. With a shovel.

That is a really bizarre thing to wish for. A baseball bat, a crowbar, a length of sturdy pipe, sure. But a shovel? Way too much work.

Anonymous Buckeyecopperhead December 27, 2013 10:53 PM  

@Noah B.

Shovel serves a dual purpose.

Anonymous Noah B. December 27, 2013 10:58 PM  

Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 27, 2013 11:03 PM  

A. Nonymous December 27, 2013 9:05 PM
it would be entirely within his established character profile for him to deliver a scathing, dead-pan put-down of ... homosexuality on the basis of their biological absurdity, but, sadly, the show is produced by one Chaim "Chuck Lorre" Levine, so, when pigs fly and all that sort of thing.



well that and the actor who plays Sheldon is queer.

Anonymous Anonymous December 28, 2013 1:04 AM  

I find it hilarious and telling that pukes like Krupp decry traditional marks of masculinity and in the next breath his friend says this about him:

"'For one, you would have been hard-pressed to see Ethan on the UW campus without a beautiful, I mean beautiful girl on his arm. A smart, kind, and funny guy would have to work pretty hard to be unattractive,” the friend added. “For another, Ethan is a true leader. When he speaks, people listen, yet, he also listens to his peers. I would follow him into battle. If Ethan wants to wear pajamas, more power to him.'"

Beautiful women - check
Leader of men - check
Battle - check

Maybe Liberal F--- live in a Scalzi inspired MMRPG where all the onesie-wearing, hot-cocoa-sipping, pre-pubescent useful idiots are on the top of the food chain. It's like a corrolary to Sailor's Law of Female Journalism.

- Durendal Almace

Anonymous Anonymous December 28, 2013 1:08 AM  

As a self-confessed person without morals, Pajamaboy can't have any special attachment to truth. Therefore, he (and the organizations he represents) should be ignored since we can't be sure he's ever telling the truth.
This is the entire rationale for cross-examining witnesses; to destroy their credibility. In this case, he's done all the work for us.

Anonymous Beau December 28, 2013 1:27 AM  

Shut up, loser. Why don't you draw a picture of yourself losing and crying. Oh, that's right, you can't, because you can't draw anything but stick figures. Loser.

VD, why lash out at JartStar? You have generously and justifiably praised his artwork here previously. Are you making some point by stating an obvious falsehood? Being a slowpoke, I don't see how the dots connect. This criticism of JartStar doesn't pass the smell test.

Blogger Tommy Hass December 28, 2013 1:32 AM  

""Hitler's dream of military conquest, "lebensraum," and blaming Jews for self-inflicted, Kaiser-derived wounds, was as bankrupt and stupid as WWI in general."

So Jews weren't incredibly overrepresented in socialism/communism which was just around the corner during the pre WW2/post WW1 times? You know, the ideology that is anti/internationalist in nature and distracts people from the objective of being a strong nation and pits the classes of a nation against each other?

Jews were probably also responsible for the US entering the war and made it all but impossible for Germany to win. (Balfour declaration)

So no, Jews DID have something to do with Germany struggling.

Blogger Markku December 28, 2013 3:01 AM  

This criticism of JartStar doesn't pass the smell test.

When something doesn't pass the smell test, well, there just may be a rat somewhere...

Anonymous Idle Hitler December 28, 2013 3:08 AM  

I see you admiring my handiwork Vox. Keep up the good work. And I'll keep painting.

Blogger Markku December 28, 2013 3:10 AM  

Should someone contest the stick figure claim, I know what Vox's next move will be, heh heh heh.

Anonymous Idle Liberal December 28, 2013 3:10 AM  

OH MY GOD. I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN HERE IF I KEPT READING.

Vox Popoli is where the hatred stews and then ferments!

Anonymous Discard December 28, 2013 6:22 AM  

Shame on me. I knew that you were quoting Hitler, without ever having read anything he'd written. Like another commenter wrote, sometimes he just makes sense. It doesn't make me happy. Some of the Jews I know are the among finest people in the world. But in the aggregate, they're evil, backstabbing ingrates.
Did you know, BTW, that Jews were 3.5% of the U.S. population in the 1940s, but only 2.5% of our WW2 dead? And they bitch that we didn't do enough to save them. They really do disgust me, as a rule.

Anonymous Beau December 28, 2013 11:54 AM  

When something doesn't pass the smell test, well, there just may be a rat somewhere...

I keep trying to figure this out. Vox's attack on JartStar was all rhetoric, without foundation, a chimera. One need only look at the right side of this webpage to see the evidence VD holds JartStar's art in high regard - two book covers and a longterm advert for others to commission covers from him. I know our host has a deep sense of humor, but this isn't funny, I don't see it.

What I do see is JartStar has given yeoman service, his very best even, to illustrate the ideals of the author our host. In return, VD has gratuitously insulted his illustrator with nary a provocation. Why? I cannot say. However,

Shut up, loser. Why don't you draw a picture of yourself losing and crying. Oh, that's right, you can't, because you can't draw anything but stick figures. Loser.

is certainly a case of evil being returned for good, which Proverbs 17:13 informs,

Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus December 28, 2013 12:08 PM  

Beau: "I know our host has a deep sense of humor, but this isn't funny, I don't see it."

It is indeed funny (and clearly intentionally so) given that this thread is about sub-optimal rhetoric.

Anonymous Ostar December 28, 2013 12:09 PM  


VD
Wait, you recognized an unattributed quote? What are you, some kind of Mein Kampf-quoting Nazi?

To be fair (and yes I recognize the sarcasm), that quote (or much of it) is also found in the book Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by WIlliam L. Shirer, which is how I recognized it.

Anonymous bob k. mando December 28, 2013 1:47 PM  

Beau December 28, 2013 11:54 AM
I keep trying to figure this out. Vox's attack on JartStar was all rhetoric, without foundation, a chimera.



this is not the first time that Vox has *trolled* someone in a thread.



Beau December 28, 2013 11:54 AM
I know our host has a deep sense of humor, but this isn't funny, I don't see it.


the humor lies in the obvious conflict between what is said overtly and what is known as a subtext between the participants.

Vox pays Jart for his work and, more importantly, has praised Jart effusively on previous occasions. having established this foundational relationship, Vox is doing the rhetorical equivalent of jabbing his elbow into Jart's ribs.

the Irish would say that Vox is 'taking the piss' out of Jart.

the critical thing, of course, is whether Jart is actually taking offense ...

hey, Jart:
did you ever catch any?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_dart

Anonymous A. Nonymous December 28, 2013 2:12 PM  

well that and the actor who plays Sheldon is queer.

That too.

Did you know, BTW, that Jews were 3.5% of the U.S. population in the 1940s, but only 2.5% of our WW2 dead?

And that was by far their highest level of participation in any military venture in American history, or so I've heard.

Anonymous Discard December 28, 2013 2:46 PM  

A. Nonymous: I'd suppose that the highest rate of Jewish participation, at the highest levels, in any American military venture was in getting us to destroy Saadam Hussein, the Enemy of Israel. Very few, if any, Jewish boots on the ground, of course.

Blogger Some dude December 28, 2013 2:55 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Some dude December 28, 2013 3:18 PM  

@tommy haas

I like that phrase "incredibly overrepresented". It's vague and conjures up so many terrible ideas. The best part is, it’s factually accurate.

Based on looking at a simple wiki article on Jewish Bolshevism, and Jewish population in Russia, I'd personally estimate us as being overrepresented by about 400% in the Bolshevik party.

Which is terrible until one realizes that being overrepresented by about 400% means that we still only comprised about 7.1% of the Bolshevik party membership.

Which itself was about 20,000 people.

And most of their Jews were subsequently purged by Stalin when he got rid of them before WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism

So I can't say what we represented as a whole, but we definitely comprised more than 400% of our share in the Bolsheviks.

So I say you pulled a real neat trick. First we get most of the blame for something we didn't have anywhere near the influence in, second that same system managed to eradicate our religion and culture, and third, and best of all, you get to excuse German butchery on something we weren't all that responsible for in the first place.

Because remember Tom, while there were definitely Jewish communists, the Jewish community didn't pick up one day and decide to butcher half the people in the Ukraine. Those were Russians who made that call. Trotsky was running for his life at that time (1928).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor was between 1932-33

Not that I think any of this makes a difference to anyone.

Anonymous Ain December 28, 2013 3:45 PM  

Bogey: "Crap, now when I use the word "dialectic" people are going to call me a Nazi, thanks a lot Vox."

People should be used to being called that by now.

Blogger Some dude December 28, 2013 3:48 PM  

When I first read this post, I first got really upset. Then something occurred to me. The only people Hitler would have been conducting these debates with were Jewish Communists.

The man on the street isn't interested in dialectic, and the average rabbinical student avoids debates that don't discuss Law. The nationalistic element was busy training to move into Israel (which was an error, had they moved directly they would not have all been killed in WWII and the country would not have subsequently fallen to the pig socialists that still infest it to this day).

Which leaves us with only one group of Jewish intellectuals who would even bother talking about these things, Commies.

So I think what Vox is saying, in his own way, is that if you are Jew and a Commie, you might want to reconsider being an annoying prick, because the rest of the world will forget the "Commie" part and remember the "Jew" part, and you might not like where that ends up.

Which is also a bit of a downer. Because I already know that. I also know that the people who need to read this post never will.

Blogger Markku December 28, 2013 3:54 PM  

Beau:

Your problem here is that,
a) Because you don't actually know JartStar like me and Vox, you don't know how obviously "Vox, your comments to me an others are so disgusting they make me physically sick. Nobody should have the right to make such vile comments to people, especially in a public forum like this." was just fooling around, and
b) You don't know the stick figures Vox is referring to. JartStar knows exactly what Vox is doing. Sadly, I have deleted the relevant file. Otherwise you'd be in for an artistic treat.

Anonymous Beau December 28, 2013 5:35 PM  

@ Markku,

Thanks for the explanation. An inside joke to which I'm not a party makes more sense than my previous conclusion.

Anonymous Discard December 28, 2013 5:58 PM  

Some Dude: Jews are even more disproportionately over represented in the leadership of Leftist organizations that in the membership. The Red Goyim include a lot of filler.
60% of the Leadership of the SDS in the 1960s and '70s were Jews.
Of the five men who competed for the top spot after Lenin died, Stalin, Bukharin, Trotsky, Kamenev, and Zinoviev, three were Jews.
In 1919, there was a Hungarian Soviet Republic, led by a Jew named Bela Kun. Of the 48 People's Commissars, 30 were Jewish.
Expand your research beyond Wikipedia. Stanley Rothman and Robert Lichter researched and wrote about Jewish Leftism in the U.S. during the 1960s and '70s. Look them up. Or, as in my case, pay attention for a few decades. Note the names of the people who work to destroy us. A lot of Jews there, a whole lot. Leftism is a Jewish cult that accepts Goyim if they hate their own kind.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus December 29, 2013 9:06 AM  

Discard: "Leftism is a Jewish cult that accepts Goyim if they hate their own kind."

And preferably if they're gay. I think that's legitimate too. There's a valid suspicion that attaches to any breeder: what if sooner or later they start thinking about what is good for their posterity?

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